– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My knee has been bothering me this past week, more so when I use my elliptical. When I first started this new WOL I would have just taken a week or two vacation from using it. Now, however, I found myself very reluctant to not do some sort of exercise. Even though I hate going outdoors, I decided that perhaps going for a nice brisk walk might be a good thing. So on the way home from work I stopped at Walmart and got a cheapo pedometer, under 4 bucks. I got home at midnight (I work second shift), changed clothes, strapped on my new pedometer, and headed towards downtown De Soto. I planned to walk about a half hour, and hoped to get over a mile in. snip So, is walking for this amount of time and distance likely to be doing me any good, or am I just being overly hopeful? — Annie Please be careful when walking in the dark. Perhaps you would like to try
walking in your home. I like Leslie Sansone’s walking videos. She has several and they go from an easy one mile up to a challenging four mile walk. A person not only gets the benefits of walking but gets some additional exercise involving the use of the arms. These videos are good for anyone of any size, age, or any physical condition who is able to walk. She gives good instructions, and the walking consists of four basic steps so it is easy to follow. (I hate exercise videos that only the pros and advanced exercisers can follow!) She has a website and you can check out the videos at Amazon.com. I like the videos because I can stay inside and not have to worry about weather conditions or make a special effort to dress to go out. Since there just doesn’t seem to be any good reason to put off walking with this system, I get it done almost every day. Her book suggests taking a rest one day a week.
[snipped] So on the way home from work I stopped at Walmart and got a cheapo pedometer, under 4 bucks. I got home at midnight (I work second shift), changed clothes, strapped on my new pedometer, and headed towards downtown De Soto. I planned to walk about a half hour, and hoped to get over a mile in.
I’m glad you enjoyed the walk! You probably already do, but I thought it was worth reiterating: if you are walking after midnight (great Patsy Cline song 
)…please take the basic precautions. Both to make sure drivers can see you *and* keeping yourself safe. — Asia
Annie, my DH, who is quite a bit overweight, has had a similar experience. He had been doing the elliptical trainer at the gym for a couple of years (choosing this over the treadmill because of knee issues). He’d gotten to where he could do it for quite a long time at a fairly high intensity level. But when we went on vacation he found that he couldn’t walk far at all without becoming tired, sweaty, and winded. Apparently his body had just become used to the elliptical, but not to walking. And I think walking is more sensitive to how much weight you’re carrying, also. I think walking, even at a moderate distance, is a great idea for you (and for DH 
). All exercise is good, and doing this will help you build up more tolerance to walking. (I haven’t read anyone else’s responses yet; perhaps I’m being redundant.) Chris 262/130s/130s
snip So, is walking for this amount of time and distance likely to be doing me any good, or am I just being overly hopeful? –Keep walking! It is the best form of exercise because almost anyone can
do it and the only equipment needed is a good pair of walking shoes. If you stick with it and and do it on a regular basis it will help you to shed those unwanted pounds and get much better physical condition. I know it sounds as though I am doing commercials for Leslie Sansone, but I totally sold on her walking videos and book. The book shows person after person who lost up to 150 pounds by going on a sensible diet and using her walking videos. The best thing is her program is not too difficult for people of larger size to do. The beginning stuff is very easy and you work up to higher levels at your own pace. Yes, Annie, the walking will do you a world of good. Keep walking! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My knee has been bothering me this past week, more so when I use my elliptical. When I first started this new WOL I would have just taken a week or two vacation from using it. Now, however, I found myself very reluctant to not do some sort of exercise. Even though I hate going outdoors, I decided that perhaps going for a nice brisk walk might be a good thing. So on the way home from work I stopped at Walmart and got a cheapo pedometer, under 4 bucks. I got home at midnight (I work second shift), changed clothes, strapped on my new pedometer, and headed towards downtown De Soto. I planned to walk about a half hour, and hoped to get over a mile in. Well, I did walk for about 35 minutes. If my cheapo pedometer is to be believe, I came in at just under a mile and half. But I have to say, I was honestly surprised at how hard it was to walk that long in one stretch! I’ve been staying on my elliptical for about 40 minutes a day, and I thought that walking would be much easier than that. But it seemed that somehow I was working different muscles somehow or something, because I could really feel it in calves by the time I got home. I was also sweating and out of breath a bit. Nothing I couldn’t handle, you understand. But it really did feel like I was doing something. I didn’t really realize that walking would affect me so much. It didn’t seem to aggravate my knee like the machine does. I’ll be taking a walk tomorrow when I get home as well. So, is walking for this amount of time and distance likely to be doing me any good, or am I just being overly hopeful? —
Hi, Annie. I spent the last winter doing step aerobics and Leslie Sansom (sp) Walk Away the Pounds videos. Both types of video work can be very strenous (like the eliptical trainer). When I got to walking outside, it definitly made different muscles sore! Doing different types of activites is called cross training, and is, I believe, very benificial for total body fitness. Keep up the walking! It’s great to be outside and see new things, and then when you and friends want to do something that involes walking you’ll be prepared. Good luck! Heidi 262/199/198 Losing 100lbs. 1 lb. at a time. Start 10/24/04 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
Now that you’ve got a pedometer methinks it might be time for another pedometer challenge! — the volleyballchick That sounds like a good idea! Maybe we could add a odometer challenge for the bikers in the group, too. I need to get riding if I’m going to make 2000 this year. I haven’t even hit the half way mark yet 
Beverly
Sounds like an excellent idea. — the volleyballchick
Now that you’ve got a pedometer methinks it might be time for another pedometer challenge! — the volleyballchick
That sounds like a good idea! Maybe we could add a odometer challenge for the bikers in the group, too. I need to get riding if I’m going to make 2000 this year. I haven’t even hit the half way mark yet Beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
My knee has been bothering me this past week, more so when I use my elliptical. When I first started this new WOL I would have just taken a week or two vacation from using it. Now, however, I found myself very reluctant to not do some sort of exercise. Even though I hate going outdoors, I decided that perhaps going for a nice brisk walk might be a good thing. So on the way home from work I stopped at Walmart and got a cheapo pedometer, under 4 bucks. I got home at midnight (I work second shift), changed clothes, strapped on my new pedometer, and headed towards downtown De Soto. I planned to walk about a half hour, and hoped to get over a mile in. Well, I did walk for about 35 minutes. If my cheapo pedometer is to be believe, I came in at just under a mile and half. But I have to say, I was honestly surprised at how hard it was to walk that long in one stretch! I’ve been staying on my elliptical for about 40 minutes a day, and I thought that walking would be much easier than that. But it seemed that somehow I was working different muscles somehow or something, because I could really feel it in calves by the time I got home. I was also sweating and out of breath a bit. Nothing I couldn’t handle, you understand. But it really did feel like I was doing something. I didn’t really realize that walking would affect me so much. It didn’t seem to aggravate my knee like the machine does. I’ll be taking a walk tomorrow when I get home as well. So, is walking for this amount of time and distance likely to be doing me any good, or am I just being overly hopeful? — Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
I did know that walking is good exercise, I didn’t phrase my final question that well. What I meant is, "is just walking for a half hour doing any good", not "does walking in general help". I really was pretty tired by the time I got home, so I guess I was doing something good for my body.
Yes, walking for 1/2 an hour does some good. Strolling slowly for 15 minutes does some good. Anything that has you off the couch and moving does some good. But you knew that, already. So that makes me go back and reread your post to figure out what your real issue is. First off, congrats on making enough of a lifestyle shift so that you craved exercise. It’s a great path to be on, and shows progress in problem solving. Used to be you’d use a sore knee as an excuse, now you see it as an opportunity to try a different activity. Atta girl. It’s an important life skill (and the one driving my learning to swim last fall and learning to cycle this spring.) Secondly, yes, this is progress even though it looks little. You really do need to start new things in manageable bites. For example, I went to a triathlon training clinic two weeks ago that had me swimming 1/4 mile, cycling 7.5 miles and running 2 miles. I came home and slept the rest of the day and then blew off the next class. It was just too much to start with. Yes, I could do it, but it was just so punishing that I’m avoiding doing it again. Much better to go for a pleasant half hour walk and have it morph naturally into a 10K run someday. Be kind to yourself and trust that it’s the right plan. I don’t share the worry-wart idea that walking in the dark is bad. I live in the North and it’s dark half the year during recreational times. I think you’ve got to weigh relative risks. The risk of NOT exercising is in the balance, too. I did get a Leslie Sansone walking tape once and liked it for music to walk by, but I tend to only use my headphones when I’m running off trail in the park during the day. Dally
[snipped] I don’t share the worry-wart idea that walking in the dark is bad. I live in the North and it’s dark half the year during recreational times.
If you’re referring to my post, walking in the dark wasn’t the part that sent up a red flag. Walking after midnight did. I live where, in the fall, it will be dark by 5 PM. So, I’m not really hand-wringing over outside being dark. I’m a little more familiar with the OP’s area after her reply today…but I still thought it was worth a few minutes’ time to be reminded that it’s better to be safe than sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Zapata She was wearing headphones while walking home after midnight. — Asia
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. The town I live and walk in is pretty small, population less than 7000, and we’re not really a route to get to any other cities or whatever. The whole I time I was walking last night, I saw a total of about 5 cars, and this was walking down Main Street. I could easily hear the cars well before I could see them. I am wearing light colored clothing just in case, and the route I take is pretty well lit by streetlights, and I can be on sidewalks for the majority of the way. Nothing is 100% safe, of course, but I believe the risks here are pretty minimal. I’m not really into the idea of buying exercise videos, however good they might be. I might be needless stubborn on this issue, but I really believe I have to find things that I can do on my own if I am going to be doing them for the rest of my life. I can see myself taking daily walks forever, but not popping in a tape and following the instructor. I am glad to hear that I might not be imagining the "different muscles than the elliptical" theory. I thought that leg exercise was leg exercise pretty much, at least when it came to things like running, walking, using the elliptical, or even swimming. Now that I know better, even when my knee heals I will continue to walk part of the time instead of just relying on the machine. I really do want to have more "real life situations" endurance! I did know that walking is good exercise, I didn’t phrase my final question that well. What I meant is, "is just walking for a half hour doing any good", not "does walking in general help". I really was pretty tired by the time I got home, so I guess I was doing something good for my body. — Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My knee has been bothering me this past week, more so when I use my elliptical. When I first started this new WOL I would have just taken a week or two vacation from using it. Now, however, I found myself very reluctant to not do some sort of exercise. Even though I hate going outdoors, I decided that perhaps going for a nice brisk walk might be a good thing. So on the way home from work I stopped at Walmart and got a cheapo pedometer, under 4 bucks. I got home at midnight (I work second shift), changed clothes, strapped on my new pedometer, and headed towards downtown De Soto. I planned to walk about a half hour, and hoped to get over a mile in. Well, I did walk for about 35 minutes. If my cheapo pedometer is to be believe, I came in at just under a mile and half. But I have to say, I was honestly surprised at how hard it was to walk that long in one stretch! I’ve been staying on my elliptical for about 40 minutes a day, and I thought that walking would be much easier than that. But it seemed that somehow I was working different muscles somehow or something, because I could really feel it in calves by the time I got home. I was also sweating and out of breath a bit. Nothing I couldn’t handle, you understand. But it really did feel like I was doing something. I didn’t really realize that walking would affect me so much. It didn’t seem to aggravate my knee like the machine does. I’ll be taking a walk tomorrow when I get home as well. So, is walking for this amount of time and distance likely to be doing me any good, or am I just being overly hopeful?
As others have said, walking indeed is useful exercise and you have already recieved some good responses. The only things I can add is to consider proper footwear especially if you are having knee troubles and don’t be too concerned with keeping a fast pace. If you are feeling out of breath it is OK to slow down a bit and you will still be getting useful exercise. Most of the time, you should be able to carry on a comfortable conversation (speaking in complete sentences) while you walk. — Matthew Slow and steady wins the race.
I think walking outside is more intense because of the variation……hills, things to step around or over, speed, etc. I love the WATP videos but I think walking outside is more enjoyable and seems to get me in shape faster. Unfortunately doing a lot of outdoor walking isn’t an option for me where I live. Keep up the good work and I second what other posters have mentioned, stay safe! Wendy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My knee has been bothering me this past week, more so when I use my elliptical. When I first started this new WOL I would have just taken a week or two vacation from using it. Now, however, I found myself very reluctant to not do some sort of exercise. Even though I hate going outdoors, I decided that perhaps going for a nice brisk walk might be a good thing. So on the way home from work I stopped at Walmart and got a cheapo pedometer, under 4 bucks. I got home at midnight (I work second shift), changed clothes, strapped on my new pedometer, and headed towards downtown De Soto. I planned to walk about a half hour, and hoped to get over a mile in. Well, I did walk for about 35 minutes. If my cheapo pedometer is to be believe, I came in at just under a mile and half. But I have to say, I was honestly surprised at how hard it was to walk that long in one stretch! I’ve been staying on my elliptical for about 40 minutes a day, and I thought that walking would be much easier than that. But it seemed that somehow I was working different muscles somehow or something, because I could really feel it in calves by the time I got home. I was also sweating and out of breath a bit. Nothing I couldn’t handle, you understand. But it really did feel like I was doing something. I didn’t really realize that walking would affect me so much. It didn’t seem to aggravate my knee like the machine does. I’ll be taking a walk tomorrow when I get home as well. So, is walking for this amount of time and distance likely to be doing me any good, or am I just being overly hopeful?
As others have said, any exercise is good exercise. I use my elliptical but also walk quite a bit. They do require different muscle groups though I bought an elliptical because it was less weight bearing. My DH doesn’t care for it so we’re planning to get a treadmill this year once we can figure out where to put it. Now that you’ve got a pedometer methinks it might be time for another pedometer challenge! — the volleyballchick
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would not go out at night in questionable areas, wearing some ridiculous sports clothes and hand weights. Headphones. No headphones. At night, or in areas where you might be alone (city park, etc.) Unfortunately, women are at much greater risk of attack. Why would a criminal attack a male runner? Unlikely he’s carrying a wallet or money. Unfortunately, there are reasons to bother a woman, regardless of how she carries herself or "refuses to be a victim." Ilene B "been there/done that"
I live in the middle of an urban area and know how to take care of myself. Do not have fear. Predators smell fear, as easily as you and I breathe. If you have fear, you subject yourself to being a target. If you don’t think you can rid yourself of that fear, then think of the worst bf you ever had and what he did to really piss you off. Get mad and look it. Walk down the street muttering loudly to yourself or singing. Have a conversation with yourself. Nobody wants to bother a pyschopath. Don’t carry valuables with you. Don’t be meek and girly. Being cutesy will hurt you. Carry yourself like you know exactly what you’re doing and where you’re going. I wear death metal t-shirts when I go running and walking, especially at night. My Cannibal Corpse "Butchered at Birth" t-shirt scares a lot of undesirables. Look around, a lot if you must. Switch the sides of streets often and never walk or run the same way two times in a row. Martha
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] I don’t share the worry-wart idea that walking in the dark is bad. I live in the North and it’s dark half the year during recreational times. If you’re referring to my post, walking in the dark wasn’t the part that sent up a red flag. Walking after midnight did. I live where, in the fall, it will be dark by 5 PM. So, I’m not really hand-wringing over outside being dark. I’m a little more familiar with the OP’s area after her reply today…but I still thought it was worth a few minutes’ time to be reminded that it’s better to be safe than sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Zapata She was wearing headphones while walking home after midnight.
You seriously equate a punk rocker partying in a bar until 2:30 AM in downtown Seattle with Annie going walking in a town of 7000 where she sees no cars? How could I possibly have called you a worry-wart? Dally
How do you like working the 2nd shift? How long you been doing it? I like it.
What are your hrs on second shift? 3pm till midnight? What?
How do you like working the 2nd shift? How long you been doing it? I like it. Less traffic to deal with to and fro (I have a 45 minute drive). I
Cool I’m in Hannibal MO You are in DeSoto, correct?
How do you like working the 2nd shift? How long you been doing it?
I like it. Less traffic to deal with to and fro (I have a 45 minute drive). I got used to odd hours pretty quickly, like within a week or two. I’ve been doing it since September, around the first week if I remember right. What do you do?
Factory work. I work for Sinclair and Rush, who produce vinyl products such as hose guards, mop handles, and various vinyl caps for metal parts. I work in the finishing department, where we screenprint logos and cut and slice the parts as needed. I’m thinking abt going to 2nd myself hence the questions
Good luck! — Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
I live where, in the fall, it will be dark by 5 PM. So, I’m not really hand-wringing over outside being dark. I’m a little more familiar with the OP’s area after her reply today…but I still thought it was worth a few minutes’ time to be reminded that it’s better to be safe than sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Zapata She was wearing headphones while walking home after midnight.
Well, yes, I guess that could be a concern also. However, I do live in a very low crime area. And the crime we do have centers more around meth lab activity rather than random assaults and attacks. De Soto Mo. simply isn’t that scary of a place. We don’t even lock our doors. Yes, there is a possibility that I might be nabbed and attacked. But the chances are very, very low. There just isn’t that many people around. Aside from cars, which I can see coming from a distance, the only person I saw was on a bike, and that was at a distance. I was the only foot traffic. Like I said, it’s hard to feel 100% safe. There are risks involved with just about everything. Still, the chances here are small enough that I don’t think they warrant my staying inside at night, cowering in home being too afraid to go for a walk down Main Street. — Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
Anything that has you off the couch and moving does some good. But you knew that, already. So that makes me go back and reread your post to figure out what your real issue is.
I think I have a tendency to have an irrational worry that I’m just not doing enough, or not doing it in the right way. I need to remember that I have this trait when I ask questions like that. It’s hard, but it is sensible. You’re suggestion about doing things in manageable bites is right on target, I think. — Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
I would not go out at night in questionable areas, wearing some ridiculous sports clothes and hand weights.
Headphones. No headphones. At night, or in areas where you might be alone (city park, etc.) Unfortunately, women are at much greater risk of attack. Why would a criminal attack a male runner? Unlikely he’s carrying a wallet or money. Unfortunately, there are reasons to bother a woman, regardless of how she carries herself or "refuses to be a victim." Ilene B "been there/done that"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] I don’t share the worry-wart idea that walking in the dark is bad. I live in the North and it’s dark half the year during recreational times. If you’re referring to my post, walking in the dark wasn’t the part that sent up a red flag. Walking after midnight did. I live where, in the fall, it will be dark by 5 PM. So, I’m not really hand-wringing over outside being dark. I’m a little more familiar with the OP’s area after her reply today…but I still thought it was worth a few minutes’ time to be reminded that it’s better to be safe than sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Zapata She was wearing headphones while walking home after midnight.
Scary. I’m one of those sickos that go walking before the crack of dawn and while I live in a fairly crime-free area (just the occasional drunk driver or teenager doing something stupid), I sometimes think about the potential of something bad happening. The one time I saw a car cruising waaaaay too slowly behind me, it turned out to be a cop. — Robyn 164/152/130
I got home at midnight (I work second shift),
How do you like working the 2nd shift? How long you been doing it? What do you do? I’m thinking abt going to 2nd myself hence the questions
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the feedback, everyone. The town I live and walk in is pretty small, population less than 7000, and we’re not really a route to get to any other cities or whatever. The whole I time I was walking last night, I saw a total of about 5 cars, and this was walking down Main Street. I could easily hear the cars well before I could see them. I am wearing light colored clothing just in case, and the route I take is pretty well lit by streetlights, and I can be on sidewalks for the majority of the way. Nothing is 100% safe, of course, but I believe the risks here are pretty minimal. I’m not really into the idea of buying exercise videos, however good they might be. I might be needless stubborn on this issue, but I really believe I have to find things that I can do on my own if I am going to be doing them for the rest of my life. I can see myself taking daily walks forever, but not popping in a tape and following the instructor. snip
Go with whatever works for you. The important thing is to keep exercising. Lots of people like videos or there wouldn’t be such a vast selection offered. I consider using a video as doing it on my own even if I am following an instructor because a video is more or less just another piece of equipment like a rope, bike, or weights. Since no other people are physically present when I exercise, I consider it as doing it by myself. This is just another example of one size doesn’t fit all. You found something that is working for you and that’s great. No point in changing what is working for you. Enjoy your walks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Annie 258/219.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 38.5 pounds lost. 79.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
The show of sympathy and moral support was great. In Ottawa there were 80-100,000 on Parliament Hill. However, we could do something much more concrete in closing our borders to terrorists who use Canada as a staging ground to gain entry to the USA. Ken I have never seen so many American flags in Canada. There’s a major flag retailer in the GTA that sold 40,000 last week. BobMac
Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site
The show of sympathy and moral support was great. In Ottawa there were 80-100,000 on Parliament Hill. However, we could do something much more concrete in closing our borders to terrorists who use Canada as a staging ground to gain entry to the USA.
and there you open a can of domestic, political worms….. BobMac
A can that has needed opening for a long, long time…. Ken The show of sympathy and moral support was great. In Ottawa there were 80-100,000 on Parliament Hill. However, we could do something much more concrete in closing our borders to terrorists who use Canada as a staging ground to gain entry to the USA. and there you open a can of domestic, political worms….. BobMac
Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site
A can that has needed opening for a long, long time….
OTOH, at last report, none of the suspects in the recent incidents were ever in Canada. BobMac
While i was at work we also observed it all. All week my heart and thoughts of gone out the victims and everyone that has been helping out with the efforts and everything. I wish i could do soemthing to help myself. I will continue to send out Reiki to the situation and all future related situations for the highest good. I am proud to call myself a Canadian after over 80000 Canadians, actually one number that i heard was over 100 000 Canadians were on Parliament Hill for the ceremory and for the moment of Silence, You coud hear a pin drop in Ottawa today at that time, except for a few people that either didn’t realize the time or what was going on at the time. Even the streets, and the highways stopped moving to observe the silence. So stand up and be proud to be Canadian , just goes to show that the USA is our closest friend and neighbour. Reiki Hugs, Love * Light Brian Ottawa, Ontario Canada
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Canadians will observe a 3 minute silence at 12:20 today to mourn all those lost. I will be on my noon run at this time and will be thinking of the loss of lives. Jenn
I have never seen so many American flags in Canada. There’s a major flag retailer in the GTA that sold 40,000 last week. BobMac
Canadians will observe a 3 minute silence at 12:20 today to mourn all those lost. I will be on my noon run at this time and will be thinking of the loss of lives. Jenn
Hey, everyone! I have a sprint coming up this weekend, my second ever. (Hurray!) I have a question about my riding position on my road bike. Most of my training rides are in the hour and a half range and I like to ride with my hands down on the drops. I do feel safe being right by the brakes and shifters, and to be honest, the position is really pretty comfortable for me — I would say it is the most comfortable. I did have the bike – a LeMonde – fitted to me when I bought it, if that makes any difference. But when I ride with roadies, they always try to get me to sit up higher and ride with my hands on the top of the handlebars or on the top of the shifters. ("You should really get used to riding like this," they tell me.) Why? Thanks for enlightening me! -Pat Sobrero
Riding higher on the bike (on the flats or on the brake hoods) generally puts you in a better position for power output. It forces you and your weight farther back on the bike, thus enabling oyu to use more glutes and hamstrings to help your power. However, in triathlon, the less you use these muscles on the bike, the better off you are (save them for the run). If oyu’re comfortable the way you ride, that’s great–it’s better specific training for triathlon. Just be careful about stress on your back. Keep those back and ab muscles strong, and keep your low back flexible by stretching regularly. Don’t always pay heed to roadie (or MTBer) advice if you’re training for triathlon. Some roadie "truisms" just don’t translate to better tri performance. Wesley Best East Coasters Cycling and Fitness, Roanoke, VA "Voted in the top 2% of bike shops in North America"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey, everyone! I have a sprint coming up this weekend, my second ever. (Hurray!) I have a question about my riding position on my road bike. Most of my training rides are in the hour and a half range and I like to ride with my hands down on the drops. I do feel safe being right by the brakes and shifters, and to be honest, the position is really pretty comfortable for me — I would say it is the most comfortable. I did have the bike – a LeMonde – fitted to me when I bought it, if that makes any difference. But when I ride with roadies, they always try to get me to sit up higher and ride with my hands on the top of the handlebars or on the top of the shifters. ("You should really get used to riding like this," they tell me.) Why? Thanks for enlightening me! -Pat Sobrero
Hey, everyone! I have a sprint coming up this weekend, my second ever. (Hurray!) I have a question about my riding position on my road bike. Most of my training rides are in the hour and a half range and I like to ride with my hands down on the drops. I do feel safe being right by the brakes and shifters, and to be honest, the position is really pretty comfortable for me — I would say it is the most comfortable. I did have the bike – a LeMonde – fitted to me when I bought it, if that makes any difference. But when I ride with roadies, they always try to get me to sit up higher and ride with my hands on the top of the handlebars or on the top of the shifters. ("You should really get used to riding like this," they tell me.) Why? Thanks for enlightening me!
Don’t believe ‘em… if you’re comfortable in the drops, ride there… For most folks, some time on the hoods is a nice break, but my wife is a lot like you. She can motor cross-country on the drops, with her back billiard table-flat. Disgusting! ;-) At least for those of us who look like Tony Rominger but can’t ride like him. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame
Hey, everyone! I have a sprint coming up this weekend, my second ever. (Hurray!) I have a question about my riding position on my road bike. Most of my training rides are in the hour and a half range and I like to ride with my hands down on the drops. I do feel safe being right by the brakes and shifters, and to be honest, the position is really pretty comfortable for me — I would say it is the most comfortable. I did have the bike – a LeMonde – fitted to me when I bought it, if that makes any difference. But when I ride with roadies, they always try to get me to sit up higher and ride with my hands on the top of the handlebars or on the top of the shifters. ("You should really get used to riding like this," they tell me.) Why? Thanks for enlightening me! -Pat Sobrero
It’s more comfortable in road riding. Bikes these days are set up with more drop than they used to be, and riding on the tops makes that setup tolerable. In the old days, we spent a lot of time in the drops in a race. But we didn’t have shifters on the brake levers either. Tourists in the old days often set up their bikes to be comfortable for long periods in the drops. That’s why bar-end shifters were so popular. Those shifters offer no advantage for the rider on the tops of the bars. But the typical touring bike of that era would have the tops of the handlebars level with the saddle, or perhaps a bit lower. Now, a road bike is likely to have 6 or 8 inches of drop. Road-race bikes of that era had very deep drops because frames tended to be larger than in common use today (and the reason for that was that extra-long seatposts were not available). In a pack, the draft minimizes the benefits gained from the lower position, and the discomfort might not be worth the relatively small benefit. That’s why your roadie buddies are telling you to ride the tops. But in a time trial, the lower you go, the better. Aerobars were invented to allow to as low as possible while still retaining reasonable comfort. Rick "As low as possible, but no lower, when cheating the wind" Denney
Actually, I DO know what the hell I’m talking about. I am a trained and experienced professional in the area of bike fit, and I am constantly doing more research to aid my knowledge. Yes, in a perfect world, maybe a different bike would be ideal, but in the original post the words "comfortable" are used to describe his current positon. That’s what counts. All the theories in the world don’t mean a rats a** if they don’t translate to the real world. For many, many years road racers did quite fine in the time trials riding in their drops. Lemond proved that aero bars could help produce better results, but every now and again you will still see some riders opt NOT to use them. To us, it’s not "right", but it works for them, and that’s what counts. For my own riding, I agree with your statements, but I see enough different people with different needs and different body types to know that there are many different "right" ways out there. Wesley Best East Coasters Cylcling and Fitness, Roanoke, VA "Voted in the top 2% of bike shops in North America" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——Original Message—– These people don’t know what the hell they are talking about. It sounds like your bike is fitted wrong. Your primary position on a road bike is with your hands on the brake hoods. The only time you should use the drops is for sprinting, decending, break aways and riding at 23 mph + while pulling at the front of the pack. This is for riding a road bike. If doing a TT you should not be using the drops either, use aerobars and cowhorns for sprinting and climbing. Daniel
But when I ride with roadies, they always try to get me to sit up higher and ride with my hands on the top of the handlebars or on the top of the shifters. ("You should really get used to riding like this," they tell me.) Why? Thanks for enlightening me! -Pat Sobrero
Pat: It’s a safety issue. I ride a LeMond, also. And I do the vast majority of my riding with my roadie team. First, I’ll say you definitely did the right thing by getting fitted when you bought the bike. Note, however, that if you put aero bars on the Lemond, you are likely going to screw up the fit. That’s because of Lemond’s long top tube. You can ride the bike with aero bars, but you would have to change your fit (basically, you’d move your body forward – go back to a professional fitter if you’re going to do this). Riding on the hoods is the safest way to ride in a group of roadies (thus, that’s the roadies are trying to get you to ride on the hoods). On the hoods, you are more upright, which allows better vision. You should be looking over the shoulder of the rider in front of you, keeping an eye out for what’s ahead (don’t just stare at the wheel in front of you – though, you should look down often to make sure you’re not too close, and not crossing). Also, the hoods allow you better access to your gears. I assume you’ve got campy ergo shifters or shimano sti. It’s nearly impossible to shift into a more difficult gear on campy from the drops. If you’re riding shimano, you’ll also find it more difficult to shift from the drops. Well, it may not be more difficult. But, try this next time you’re on your bike. Get in the drops, and try to shift into an easier gear with your right hand. Chances are you are going to push the bike to the left initially, then snap it back to the right as your shift. This may not be a big deal if you’re riding by yourself, but it’s bad news in a pack, where predictability of line is huge. I’m not saying you can’t ride in the drops and shift at the same time – I often do it, especially on descents. But, it’s not the smoothest way to shift, and makes group riding a bit more dangerous. Lastly, you should have easy access to your brakes from the hoods. Your leverage may not be as good on the hoods as it is from the drops, but the brakes are right at your fingertips. I agree that riding in the drops is the most comfortable position on a well fitted road bike (especially with TTT ergo correct bars). It’s also the most aerodynamically efficient. Also, you always want to be in the drops on a descent (unless it’s an unfamiliar descent, and you need to have your head up). However, you simply can’t shift smoothly enough or quickly enough in a group situation. So, in my opinion, the roadies are giving you valid advice - but, their advice is only applicable to group situations. When you’re on your own, like you are in a spring tri, get in the drops and hammer away. Good luck this weeke Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
But I ask now– say I wanted your entry. How would you propose I use it? All triathletes have to show their USAT cards, right? Do you know of some way an entry can be given to someone else?
I hate to promote this, since the spots are officially "non-transferrable," but… You could just show up, say you forgot your card, and pay the $5 "one day license" fee. As of yet Wildflower hasn’t begun requiring photo IDs at registration, but if this trend continues they may be forced to do so. I can really understand why they make entries non-transferrable. And I can really understand athletes’ desperation to get in to the race once it’s full. Unfortunate. — Tri-Baby _ – o ’ – __o – </_ ` ‘ – < – __/ /o_ – (()) (()) - / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon? Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html
Due to recent medical complications I’m going to have to miss Wildflower. I have one (1) entry for the long course I would like to sell to anyone that did not get theirs in before the cut off. I’m in the male, 40-45 age group. Asking $100. Harry
My reply here will probably sound like I’ve got one foot firmly planted on either side of the fence, but to be clear up front, I think it would be great if someone got into the race with your entry. Now, here goes. My entry for the WF long course was received on 3/2, 4 days after the 2/26 cutoff. Way bummed was I! I called the race office, and wrote Terry (race director) a long email explaining that I run a small (~25) group in the San Francisco area, that 5 of us were planning to do the race (int’l and long), and that I would really appreciate taking another triathletes. You see, I sent an email in early March asking around for an entry, and one indeed turned up, in my age group! But Terry said no go– on all accounts, my group, my entries the past 3 years in WF and other Tri-California events, but most of all, the entry I found waiting to be taken– entries are non-transferrable. Man oh man! Now, he didn’t say it, but I can straight into one point– the signed release form. Say something goes wrong and there is some legal action (never in a million years would I want this to happen, but this is worst case, which the WF staff has to watch out for). Then what? A second point which the staff reminded me of again and again is that the field was overbooked by 200 triathletes because they felt bad turning away so many people and because they are allowing for no-shows. Makes sense. So, I guess as far as official routes go, I don’t think you’ll be able to transfer your entry. Dang. But I ask now– say I wanted your entry. How would you propose I use it? All triathletes have to show their USAT cards, right? Do you know of some way an entry can be given to someone else? No matter, it is at the very least thoughtful of you to make your entry available. I’d snap it up in a second! David Due to recent medical complications I’m going to have to miss Wildflower. I have one (1) entry for the long course I would like to sell to anyone that did not get theirs in before the cut off. I’m in the male, 40-45 age group. Asking $100. Harry
Does anyone use the Fuelbelt that has become the rage in IM racing. I would appreciate any input from users….both positive and negative of course. thanks Brian
Does anyone use the Fuelbelt that has become the rage in IM racing. I would appreciate any input from users….both positive and negative of course.
I like the idea of them, although in practice I can’t seem to find one ( I have 3 different brands ) that stays put. They all seem to work their way around to the way they want to be, which is not always the most comfortable for me. And making them tighter just doesn’t seem to work. I use them regardless for 1/2IM and marathons, they make the journey so much more pleasent… Al Kormesser
Does anyone use the Fuelbelt that has become the rage in IM racing. I would appreciate any input from users….both positive and negative of course. thanks Brian
I’ve one and I use it for my long runs (2 hours+) building up to the London marathon. It’s great BUT one of the bottle pockets has stated to come off after what might only amount to ten runs. So it’s a great idea that needs a bit more stitching! Regards, Steve
I have used a large number of different styles of belts and can say that the Fuel Belt is easily the most comfortable. It does not move around your waist or bounce up and down. It’s true that you actually forget it’s even there. The down side or (hard to get used to) is the small bottles and the very small opening on the bottle tops. I’ve ripped the top off numerous times trying to get a bigger flow of water. I think we are all used to standard size cycling bottles and tops and the smaller flow is less satisfying. By the way, the total volume of the four small bottles equals (1) normal size cycling water bottle. Larry
I think the fuel belt is a great way to rehydrate. I have been using it on long runs without any major problems. The only complaint I have is that gels do not flow easily from the fuel belt bottle. I usually have to unscrew the cap off to get to my gel because the gel will not come out with squeezing the fuel belt bottle. Zach
I love my FuelBelt. Great for those long solo runs. No bounce at all. You’re right, the bottle caps are not made for gels. Ultima makes a great gel bottle and pouch that fits perfectly in the back of my fuel belt. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the fuel belt is a great way to rehydrate. I have been using it on long runs without any major problems. The only complaint I have is that gels do not flow easily from the fuel belt bottle. I usually have to unscrew the cap off to get to my gel because the gel will not come out with squeezing the fuel belt bottle. Zach
Does anyone use the Fuelbelt that has become the rage in IM racing. I would appreciate any input from users….both positive and negative of course. thanks Brian
Hi Everyone! Wow, so many great comments on the Fuel Belt (manufactured by Perfekta). As the person responsible for bringing Fuel Belts to most of you, I would like to address many of the questions/concerns that most of you have brought up. It’s true that we are pretty much conditioned to expect our bottles to have bigger spouts, however, the uniqueness of the bottles on the Fuel Belt allows for only a few select caps to be used. We are working hard to custom manufacture a new cap that will be more similar to your traditional water bottle caps as well as new versions of the original belt. We just received a Fuel Belt that has EIGHT bottles, holding over 40 ounces! As with any good company willing to improve it’s products, it is very important that we listen to our hard working customers (you, the athletes:)). All of your comments are well taken. To that point, I would like to extend the following: For those of you having problems with the caps coming off, please e-mail me and I will get you new caps ASAP. At the very least, we want you to continue to stay hydrated. If anyone would like more information on our products, please drop me an e-mail with your questions, or visit our website for more information at: www.fuelbelt.com — Vinu Malik President, Fuel Belt p: 617.868.9506 (direct) p: 888.666.BELT (2358) f: 617.661.7808 w: www.fuelbelt.com Fuel Belt: Proven at Ironman races around the world…
Try mixing a little water in with the gel (about 5 parts gel to 1 part water). Makes it flow much easier. Mark I think the fuel belt is a great way to rehydrate. I have been using it on long runs without any major problems. The only complaint I have is that gels do not flow easily from the fuel belt bottle. I usually have to unscrew the cap off to get to my gel because the gel will not come out with squeezing the fuel belt bottle. Zach _ – o ’ – __o – </_ ` ‘ – < – __/ /o_ – (()) (()) - /
Hello, I just started back into the tri-scene after about three off years. I used to swim with a YMCA group that had fairly structured workouts (around 2,100 – 2,600 yards per). Unfortunately I’ve moved to a new location with no viable Masters program or other organized swim team. What I’m looking for is an on-line resource (although a library book would be a good start!) to use to help me set a plan for the pool. I find that if I don’t have something in writing, I tend to slip into the same workout day after day. It’s comfortable, but not terribly productive. Can you point me in the right direction to have some direction? Thanks!
hi dera, all you need is in www.swimm2000.com. best regards. Andrea – Italy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I just started back into the tri-scene after about three off years. I used to swim with a YMCA group that had fairly structured workouts (around 2,100 – 2,600 yards per). Unfortunately I’ve moved to a new location with no viable Masters program or other organized swim team. What I’m looking for is an on-line resource (although a library book would be a good start!) to use to help me set a plan for the pool. I find that if I don’t have something in writing, I tend to slip into the same workout day after day. It’s comfortable, but not terribly productive. Can you point me in the right direction to have some direction? Thanks!
Hello, I just started back into the tri-scene after about three off years. I used to swim with a YMCA group that had fairly structured workouts (around 2,100 – 2,600 yards per). Unfortunately I’ve moved to a new location with no viable Masters program or other organized swim team. What I’m looking for is an on-line resource (although a library book would be a good start!) to use to help me set a plan for the pool. I find that if I don’t have something in writing, I tend to slip into the same workout day after day. It’s comfortable, but not terribly productive. Can you point me in the right direction to have some direction? Thanks!
Check my links page (in the Triathlon Training/Swim Workouts section). Personnaly, I like the one from the Mountain View Masters Swim Club. The one from SWIM 2000 – WORKOUTS OF THE WEEK are also good (with several levels). http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~desprez/FILES/TRIATH/links.html Fred
Check our Workout of the Week. Swimming Technology Research http://members.aol.com/swimbetter
Rolf, Your build up looks okay and only you know what your body can handle. But a word of advice – make sure that your weekly milage does not change dramaticaly from week to week. This can lead to various overtraining injuries. Also, if your body takes a long time to recover from the long runs, TRY SLOWING DOWN. Almost everyone does these long runs too fast. You should also make sure you keep well hydrated and eat plenty of carbs after the run. Another good idea is to NOT run on the road the day after the long runs. Try pool running, swimming, biking or anyhting that doesn’t pound on your legs. Finally, try to do some runs on similar terrain as your race if possible. I your race is somewhere like San Fran or Pittsburgh, I would STRONGLY suggest doing hill work. just my $.02 Eric See the Cow Swim. See the Cow Bike. See the Cow Run.
Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan? I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience. My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range).
Though not specific to your question, Lauren and I wrote an article "Marathon Training for Triathletes" for Chicago’s Amateur Athlete. It’s on their web page at http://www.runningnetwork.com/ChicagoAA/tips/15.html We also (along with others) have other articles under http://www.runningnetwork.com/ChicagoAA/tips including the laugher "Tri-ing Harder" Todd Jensen
The other two important runs are a longish run at marathon race pace (or a little faster) 8-10 miles and finally speedwork on the track.
Almost any top running coach will tell you that the long run should be run SLOWER than marathon race pace. The reasoning is that if you run all your long runs at marathon race pace, you’ll end up exhausted, wasted, trashed, and not recovered from one weekend’s long run to the next. For example, in Runner’s World this month, they had a long article from a famous coach at SUNY-Cortland and this was his recommendation as well. Cathy Corning
The key, IMHO, is the long run. You should be doing one long run a week, building up to 21-22 miles. Start at a short distance and build up, adding one mile a week. Run this at 45-60 seconds below your goal
While I am very appreciative of the advice, I do not think I can recover from weekly 21-22 mile runs. It takes me a *minimum* of two weeks, usually closer to 3 weeks for that distance. I do not mean this as a criticism of the advice. Rather, a clarification of a personal limitation. I have tried more aggressive mileage with overtraining and injuries the result. I agree. The weekly long run is the key. What works for me is a three week cycle, two up and one down. Looks something like this: week 1 10 mi week 2 12 mi week 3 8 mi week 4 12 mi week 5 14 mi week 6 10 mi etc
This sounds like a more reasonable approach. However, this places two long runs a week apart, a bit much for my slow recovery. I will probably do week -6 to 0 (base) 30-60 mi/week week 1 13 week 2 7 week 3 15 week 4 8 week 5 17 week 6 9 week 7 12 week 8 19 week 9 7 week 10 7 week 11 21 week 12 etc. More rest as the runs get longer… -Rolf — Some call me Rolf… I tri… Looking to 1997… IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47 IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35 IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00
Arands) writes: I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!).
Rolf: I’m running a marathon on Saturday (Philadelphia) the 24th and have tried to follow a progressive mileage buildup program from a 20 mile a week base (in August from Triathlon season) up to 50 miles a week, with one long run (10+miles) a week building each week to a long run of up to 20 miles. Add 10% per week to your long run starting at 10. The other two important runs are a longish run at marathon race pace (or a little faster) 8-10 miles and finally speedwork on the track. I try to bike and swim at least once a week too. I consider the long run the most important run, the race pace run the second most important and the speedwork, 3rd. Other runs are mostly for pleasure. I do suggest you check out Team Oregon’s web page which has GREAT advice on how to train. They also have a Pace Wizard which is fun for predicting what your marathon potential is based on a 10K time. Check them out at: http://www.teamoregon.com/~teamore/ Tucker Newberry
I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997 Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan? I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience. My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range). The key, IMHO, is the long run. You should be doing one long run a week, building up to 21-22 miles. Start at a short distance and build up, adding one mile a week. Run this at 45-60 seconds below your goal
I agree. The weekly long run is the key. What works for me is a three week cycle, two up and one down. Looks something like this: week 1 10 mi week 2 12 mi week 3 8 mi week 4 12 mi week 5 14 mi week 6 10 mi etc You get the idea. I also agree with running at less than race pace, but I also try to alternate my pace while running. For example, for a 16 mi run, try 4 mi at 9:30 pace, 10 mi at goal pace, and 2 mi back at 9:30 pace. You also might try intervals, even during your base workup. Intervals build your cardio-vascular endurance and help develop leg strength which you will need, particularly past mile 20. Keep with the hill repeats. Hills increase runniing efficiency which will also carry you past mile 20. Good luck! Hope to see both of you in Penticton!!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arands) I’m running a marathon on Saturday (Philadelphia) the 24th and have tried to follow a progressive mileage buildup program from a 20 mile a week base (in August from Triathlon season) up to 50 miles a week, with one long run (10+miles) a week building each week to a long run of up to 20 miles. Add 10% per week to your long run starting at 10. The other two important runs are a longish run at marathon race pace (or a little faster) 8-10 miles and finally speedwork on the track. I try to bike and swim at least once a week too. I consider the long run the most important run, the race pace run the second most important and the speedwork, 3rd. Other runs are mostly for pleasure. Tucker Newberry
Classic Galloway marathon training. I concur. Chaz
Although it was long ago, what worked for me were 3 principles. 1) Just run all the mileage you can handle 2) Start doing your shorter runs at your goal race pace. Your legs need to be comfortable with your race pace. If race pace is too fast for even your short runs then break them up. I’d suggest at least a couple miles twice a week at race pace. 10 miles at race pace should be comfortable by taper-time. 3) A long run each week at a comfortable pace. Conventional wisdom has typically been around 20 miles, but IMHO 16-18 is plenty with your background. I’d still do one swim and one bike per week just to keep those skills active in your muscle memory. dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!). I have trained for 2 IM races, and this is actually part of my training for my 3rd in August 1997. I have also done 1 marathon, but my training was haphazard. Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan? I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience. My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range). I am doing base/hillwork now, but nothing really beyond 1.5 hours. Thanks. -Rolf — Some call me Rolf… I tri… Looking to 1997… IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47 IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35 IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!). I have trained for 2 IM races, and this is actually part of my training for my 3rd in August 1997. I have also done 1 marathon, but my training was haphazard. Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan? I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience. My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range). I am doing base/hillwork now, but nothing really beyond 1.5 hours. Hi Rolf,
The key, IMHO, is the long run. You should be doing one long run a week, building up to 21-22 miles. Start at a short distance and build up, adding one mile a week. Run this at 45-60 seconds below your goal marathon pace. The idea is to get your body used to running for a long time. On the long runs, bring a water bottle (or two) or have another means of staying hydrated. You can’t run these distances without water – even in winter. As for the other days, I would probably include one day of tempo work and one or two days of slow recovery runs. I assume you’ll also be continuing training in the other two events. I just completed the Cape Cod marathon on 10/28 using this past summer’s triathlon training as a base and then doing a set of five long runs in the range of 17-21 miles. Good luck. See you at Penticton in August. Martin — Martin Feeney Swim…Bike…Run…Collapse. Triathletes have three times the fun.
I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!). I have trained for 2 IM races, and this is actually part of my training for my 3rd in August 1997. I have also done 1 marathon, but my training was haphazard. Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan? I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience. My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range). I am doing base/hillwork now, but nothing really beyond 1.5 hours. Thanks. -Rolf — Some call me Rolf… I tri… Looking to 1997… IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47 IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35 IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00
Needless to say, I use Reload (not GU) during races; it goes down much easier than a Power Bar. I usually carry a packet of GU, too – though as an emergency stimulant, not as food. – Tim Iverson —
If you what an emergency bonk buster try using an instant-gluclose packet. I use insta-gluclose, which I get at a medical supply store. They work much better than GU, and much faster.
easier than a Power Bar. I usually carry a packet of GU, too – though as an emergency stimulant, not as food. If you what an emergency bonk buster try using an instant-gluclose packet. I use insta-gluclose, which I get at a medical supply store. They work much better than GU, and much faster.
Well, I’ve only bonked once in my life … so it’s not a big concern. However, sometimes I do get sleepy during a long workout. It goes away after a while if I ignore it, but if it happens in a race – especially near the end – I’ll gobble some GU purely for the caffeine. It helps to be alert at the finish, where all manner of confusions seem to conglomerate. IMHO, GU has far too much caffeine to use safely as food during a race. – Tim Iverson
For what it’s worth, yesterday I tried GU for the second time. First time I went slow in the bike on an easy day. Yesterday was time to put the hammer down, and I tried the nasty little packet on an empty stomach, and then went out for my short course time trial. It’s a hilly course, and I have never been able to crack 18mph for 14.5 miles. Yesterday, in hot midday sun, I rode 19mph with strength to spare. Drank one bottle of water as I normally do. Of course, it can’t just be the GU, but I have been training lightly on the bike, and am very surprised at my time. Brian Sullivan
Brian, I used GU twice myself and have had a similar experience. It real seems to give that extra shot of energy and endurance. I plan to try it in a sprint distance triathlon first and then an Olympic distance race later this year. I am still concerned about stomach problems but so far that has not been the case with GU.
Not to beat this subject to death (I promise this the last training update on this point!) but yesterday, one day after setting my training PR on the bike, I set my training PR on a 5K run. The only difference between these workouts and the same ones I always do was changing from Powerbars before workouts to GU. Can’t say for sure it’s the GU, but two PRs in two days is hard to ignore. I’m going to keep experimenting with this stuff. BTW, I know in my head that I should rest between hard workouts, but my legs were begging to sprint yesterday, and since that happens so rarely I thought I would let them have their way! Brian Sullivan
: I just did the same thing a few days ago. Ten minutes after chowing down on : just one GU I was crawling the ceiling from caffeine overdose. There’s more : caffeine in those little packets than a 6-pack of JOLT Cola. Anyone have any idea just how much caffeine is in this stuff? Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.
What is GU? Unfortunately, where I work, GU is a gastric ulcer. From what I’ve read so far it seems appropriately named. Don’t think I’m keen to try this particular tri-food. TriGit.
Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it! jo Redondo Beach, CA
Anyone have any idea just how much caffeine is in this stuff? Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.
According to the Gu folks, one packet contains the equivalent amount of caffeine found in 1/5 of a cup of coffee. I called because a local news station reported caffeine levels equal to 6 cups of coffee. I don’t know where they got their info. Larry
According to the Gu folks, one packet contains the equivalent amount of caffeine found in 1/5 of a cup of coffee. I called because a local news station reported caffeine levels equal to 6 cups of coffee. I don’t know where they got their info.
From my own experience, I can attest to the veracity of the news report. I can drink a cup of coffee and feel rather alert. Just one GU packet sent me climbing the walls. I am more sensitive to caffeine than most, but this doesn’t account for such a radical disparity of reactions. I suppose this could be due to GU-caffeine being more concentrated and/or bio-available than coffee-caffeine, but that stretches my credultiy. – Tim Iverson
I finally broke down and sprung for a few packets of the new gel foods, and thought you might be interested in a first experience. The bike shop
I just did the same thing a few days ago. Ten minutes after chowing down on just one GU I was crawling the ceiling from caffeine overdose. There’s more caffeine in those little packets than a 6-pack of JOLT Cola. Needless to say, I use Reload (not GU) during races; it goes down much easier than a Power Bar. I usually carry a packet of GU, too – though as an emergency stimulant, not as food. – Tim Iverson —
I’ve used the Gatorade "RELOAD" carbohydrate gel — all flavors — goes down real easy and the taste is very mild. I’ve found that about 10 – 15 minutes after consuming a packet I get a significant boost in energy. Discovered this by accident at the Magic Mountain Stage Race in olean, NY. About 15 minutes before one of the climbs, I "ate" the contents of one of these packets and the climb went amazingly easy — compared to the previous two. Since then I’ve repeated the experiment on several occasions with the results. Placebo effect or not, it seems to work.
| I finally broke down and sprung for a few packets of the new gel foods, | and thought you might be interested in a first experience. The bike shop | had only GU Chocolate Outrage, that’s what I used. Had breakfast at 7 am, | then ate the GU at noon since the pack says to eat it on an empty stomach. | | Well, the taste was perfectly fine, though the consistency was | pretty thick since it was sitting in a cool drawer and not in the back | pouch of a sweaty singlet. Tasted exactly like chocolate pudding. | There is no way I could choke this down without water – drinking is | recommended on the packet. One sip at the end doesn’t do it, you need to | drink while you eat. Consequently, I think this will be harder than | expected to consume on the bike, what with trying to tear off the top, | take a bite (?), hold the pack while grabbing the water bottle (Jetstream | looks better all the time), then eating some more. | The stuff hit my stomach and caused some interesting flips down | there, but no significant distress. 20 minutes later I hit the road for a | 6 mile run in 90 degree midday heat (dumb, but the only time I could get | out). I had water at mile 4 (water fountain) and maintained a comfortable | pace so I wouldn’t blow up in the heat. Ran fine, felt strong, and never | felt the least bit uncomfortable. Can’t say for sure that the GU helped | much, but it certainly didn’t hurt. Next step is to try it in the middle | of a longer run, and make an attempt while riding the bike. | | Brian Sullivan
I finally broke down and sprung for a few packets of the new gel foods, and thought you might be interested in a first experience. The bike shop had only GU Chocolate Outrage, that’s what I used. Had breakfast at 7 am, then ate the GU at noon since the pack says to eat it on an empty stomach. Well, the taste was perfectly fine, though the consistency was pretty thick since it was sitting in a cool drawer and not in the back pouch of a sweaty singlet. Tasted exactly like chocolate pudding. There is no way I could choke this down without water – drinking is recommended on the packet. One sip at the end doesn’t do it, you need to drink while you eat. Consequently, I think this will be harder than expected to consume on the bike, what with trying to tear off the top, take a bite (?), hold the pack while grabbing the water bottle (Jetstream looks better all the time), then eating some more. The stuff hit my stomach and caused some interesting flips down there, but no significant distress. 20 minutes later I hit the road for a 6 mile run in 90 degree midday heat (dumb, but the only time I could get out). I had water at mile 4 (water fountain) and maintained a comfortable pace so I wouldn’t blow up in the heat. Ran fine, felt strong, and never felt the least bit uncomfortable. Can’t say for sure that the GU helped much, but it certainly didn’t hurt. Next step is to try it in the middle of a longer run, and make an attempt while riding the bike. Brian Sullivan
Could someone tell me what the difference is between the Polar Accurex and the Accurex 2? Does one have advantages over the other. I have a chance to get the older Accurex. Also, what is the going price on the Accurex 2?
One difference I remember is that the Accurex II stored 44 lap splits while the orginal Accurex stores 3. I suggest looking around for a deal on the Accurex II. It’s been replaced by a ‘nightvision’ model; deals should be available. I recently saw the Accurex II advertised for $139 in the Performance Bike (out of Chapel Hill, NC) catalog. Other mail order shops to call, all have 800 numbers available from 800 info (1-800-555-1212): Triathlete Zombies (San Diego) Creative Health Products (Michigan)- they have a free HRM product guide worth reading Colorado Cyclist (Colorado Springs, CO) — Tom Carminati U S WEST Technologies
Could someone tell me what the difference is between the Polar Accurex and the Accurex 2? Does one have advantages over the other. I have a chance to get the older Accurex. Also, what is the going price on the Accurex 2? One difference I remember is that the Accurex II stored 44 lap splits while the orginal Accurex stores 3.
The Accurex 2 has average heart-rate for each complete run. I don’t think the original Accurex has this feature. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong here). paul
Could someone tell me what the difference is between the Polar Accurex and the Accurex 2? Does one have advantages over the other. I have a chance to get the older Accurex. Also, what is the going price on the Accurex 2? Thanks. — Ken Firestone, N3JBU | If you look at things right, its best not to know | to anybody who doesn’t know who he really is | actually happens to somebody else. So it makes no | difference at all. — Nelson Algren.
: David LaPorte (Biochem)) writes: : Recent studies have shown that even top racers don’t really pull up on : the pedals. However, they do unweight the pedal as it’s coming up. That : improves your efficiency because your descending leg doesn’t have to work : as hard. One of the primary muscles needed to unweight the pedal is the : hip flexor. : Dave LaPorte : Well I haven’t seen any studies on this so I can’t say anything about : studies, but from my own experience as a road racer this is certainly not : true. : When I pedal I certainly pull up. In fact I can actually ride for some : quite some time using mainly my hams. As far as climbing, this is the one : spot that ‘pulling up’ will benifit the rider most (IMHO). I find on steeper : climbs 6-10% grades I pull up an awfull lot and train to be able to do so. <…. The studies were reviewed in Bicycling magazine a couple of years ago. The subjects were road racers. They were stunned by the results because they were also convinced that they were pulling up. The studies were conducted in a lab and were not exhaustive. There may be some circumstances in which riders really do pull up. However, IMO, personal perception is not a great measure of pedaling dynamics. After all, the subjects is this study were certain that they were pulling up even though they weren’t. I imagine that the reliability of personal perceptions depends on exactly what you’re sensing. If you can feel the pressure on the top of the shoe as the pedal goes up, you may actually be pulling up. I can only feel that at very low cadences. OTOH, a feeling that your hams or hip flexors are pulling up may not be reliable. These muscle groups may simply be working against quads and gluts that have not fully released. In this case, there may still be a net downward pressure on the pedals. Even if you’re not really pulling up, it may still be beneficial to try. Pedaling circles will help unweight the ascending pedal, improving your efficiency. All of this is, of course, academic. Whatever gets you through the bike leg in the shortest time and in the best shape is the way to go. Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.
A question for the net: If triathlon bikes (i.e., steep seat-tube bikes) are configured so that optimum power is produced when the rider is on the aerobars, why don’t most riders I’ve seen on such bikes climb long hills in the aero position?
The aero bars push the shoulders together; getting on top or on the hoods opens up the chest for better breathing (source: Bicycling Mag, but I don’t remember when). A related question: if we disregard standing up to climb where the forward saddle might get in the way, is there any reason why steep- angled bikes should be worse for climbing than traditional frames?
With the more relaxed seat tube angle, it’s easier to get the leverage needed to push the pedal over the top. If you have a steep seat tube angle, just sit up and farther back on climbs (source: Ken at the local bike shop–he knows everything). Larry ‘Hills’ K.
A question for the net: why don’t most riders I’ve seen on such bikes climb long hills in the aero position? A related question: if we disregard standing up to climb where the forward saddle might get in the way, is there any reason why steep- angled bikes should be worse for climbing than traditional frames?
This is probably better answered by QRman, but I’ll give it my best shot. There are several issues here. You are right about the aero position not having much of an aerodynamic savings on a long slow climb. Personally, I get on the hoods or stand on long slow climbs for two reasons: (1) to stretch out and relax the muscles that get tight in the aero position, and (2) to open up the chest region for easier deep breathing. As far as bike geometry goes, most roadies you see doing long seated climbs slide back on the saddle to get weight on the back wheel. This also changes the angles of the upper and lower leg so that the more powerful glute and quad muscles have a better mechanical advantage. Steep angle bikes use 650c wheels (or bent seat tubes for 700c) to get the back wheel closer to the riders CG. Thus the seat angle of the bike is likely offset by the relative position of the back wheel. This would also hold true for out of the saddle climbing. kbb Kim B. Blair, Ph.D. Senior Staff Scientist 1033 Massachusetts Ave (617) 354-3124 Cambridge, MA 02138 (617) 491-4522 (fax)
A question for the net: If triathlon bikes (i.e., steep seat-tube bikes) are configured so that optimum power is produced when the rider is on the aerobars, why don’t most riders I’ve seen on such bikes climb long hills in the aero position? I can understand how a rider on a conventional frame might be sacrificing power for aerodynamics when on the aerobars, and thus when climbing at slower speeds where aerodynamics are less important, would shift to the tops or hoods. But the case for steep-angled bikes doesn’t seem as clear. A related question: if we disregard standing up to climb where the forward saddle might get in the way, is there any reason why steep- angled bikes should be worse for climbing than traditional frames? Mark Vande Kamp
First, this "opening the chest" thing doesn’t jive with the often- <stuff deleted
I agree. It is not getting the air into the lungs **in my opinion**, it is getting the blood flow to the legs. I have found that opening up (sitting up) allows better blood flow to my legs, while my breathing is little affected. It seems opening up un-constricts the pinch at the waist which I think restricts blood flow under high exertion (hills). On the contrary, on long, steady grades, I still don’t see why the aero position wouldn’t be optimal.
In one sentence, it isn’t. You simply cannot produce the force on the pedals at low rpm’s in aero position that you can in a non-aero position. Power output is proportional to rpm’s AND force on the pedal. On the flats you can turn high rpm’s easily with relatively low force on the pedals, thus maintaining a decent power output. Result – high speed on the flats, high rpm’s, low force per stroke. One also does NOT work against gravity, just drag forces. As you climb a hill, the rpm’s drop, so you need to apply more force to the pedals to compensate. Now one works against gravity, which I think is far greater a load than drag alone. You cannot apply as much force to the pedals in the aero position as you can in other positions BECAUSE the big glute muscles in your butt are not working through their full range of motion where they generate enormous power. Otherwise, we would see pro riders climbing the Alps in the aero position. It doesn’t help there. Biomechanically, the further back the butt relative to the pedals, the more the big powerful glutes are recruited at the sacrifice of rpm’s. Standing creates more power because the rider is using his/her weight to push the pedal down. However, now the rider’s weight is borne by the rider, not the seat, resulting in more effort than seated climbing. (BTW, this is based upon my experience – if it is deemed wrong, then my description sucks but I believe the principles to be sound) If I can pedal stronger and more efficiently by sitting up on long, steady grades, then it seems that the aero position might not have been taken far enough.
If you could pedal more efficiently in any position, then your climbing will improve. You cannot pedal more efficiently uphill in most cases (except very gentle slopes of course) in the aero position. The steeper the hill, the less biomechanically efficient the aero position becomes. If you go more aero, you will go slower up hills. -Rolf — Rolf Arands, Ph.D. | |
Recent studies have shown that even top racers don’t really pull up on the pedals. However, they do unweight the pedal as it’s coming up. That improves your efficiency because your desending leg doesn’t have to work as hard. One of the primary muscles needed to unweight the pedal is the hip flexor. Dave LaPorte
Well I haven’t seen any studies on this so I can’t say anything about studies, but from my own experience as a road racer this is certainly not true. When I pedal I certainly pull up. In fact I can actually ride for some quite some time using mainly my hams. As far as climbing, this is the one spot that ‘pulling up’ will benifit the rider most (IMHO). I find on steeper climbs 6-10% grades I pull up an awfull lot and train to be able to do so. I asked a former member of the Canadian National Cycling Team , Kevin Wharton, two summers ago about this and he agrees with me. Many racers are using their hams to giive their quads a break and to get that extra power on the climbs. At the time I was training for TTT’s and asked him about his time trialing pedalling. Again he said that he uses his hams to quite an extent though other riders on the national TTT team did not. I would say that trying different styles to find what works best for you is what’s best. As far as studies go and they being carried out on rollers or trainers or on the road. I find that on a trainer I tend to use my hams much less. I would be interested in how one would set up a set of pedals to record forces while on the road ( because I’m doing a lot of computer facing and almost did a project involving recording the foces exerted on the pedal and in what directions these forces were in ,but while the bike was in a trainer ). __o o ’Mary walks down __/o_ ‘ ,- <| to the water’s edge…’ (*)/( ) – S.McLachlan jason’s experimental (tri and cycling) WWW home page URL: http://dragon.acadiau.ca:1667/~005963m/jay_homepage.html
[stuff gone] are recruited at the sacrifice of rpm’s. Standing creates more power because the rider is using his/her weight to push the pedal down. However, now the rider’s weight is borne by the rider, not the seat, resulting in more effort than seated climbing. |
Thanks for the advice Rolf. There was an article in Triathlon about 8 months ago by Mike Pigg. it had to do with hill climbing. He said basically what you just said. So let me see if I understand it right… We have a hill in Torrance I call puke-hill. It leads to the Palos Verdes Peninsula. Anyway, its a great training hill, and is part of the bike route in the Torrance Tri. It starts out gradual, and gets steaper and steaper, until my lungs are in my throat. I guess its about 1/2 mile long. I start out in the seat, trying to maintain a steady RPM, downshifting as it gets steaper. I stay in the seat until I get near the top where it gets very steep, and I have to stand to keep enough power to the pedals to keep the rpms up enough to keep me upright. My RPM slow down when it starts to get REALLY steep. But I make it up the hill. Then I do it 2-3 more times. am I doing it right? thanks, jo Redondo Beach, CA
I have found that opening up (sitting up) allows better blood flow to my legs, while my breathing is little affected. It seems opening up un-constricts the pinch at the waist which I think restricts blood flow under high exertion (hills).
Makes sense. But why shouldn’t opening up the angle at the waste when on the flats likewise improve blood flow? You simply cannot produce the force on the pedals at low rpm’s in aero position that you can in a non-aero position. Power output is proportional to rpm’s AND force on the pedal. On the flats you can turn high rpm’s easily with relatively low force on the pedals, thus maintaining a decent power output. Result – high speed on the flats, high rpm’s, low force per stroke. One also does NOT work against gravity, just drag forces.
OK. But power produces speed, either on the flats or on the hills. If a bike could be designed so that maximum power at aerobic threshold was produced in the aero position, then it seems obvious that such a position would be optimal on both the flats and the hills. As I said in my last post, it appears that something (maybe saddle design) dictates that the aero position actually sacrifices power for aerodynamics, even on steep seat-tube bikes. Hence, your point above is valid under current conditions. What I’m asking, is whether it is possible to create an aero position in which the rider produces their maximum power at aerobic threshold. As you climb a hill, the rpm’s drop, so you need to apply more force to the pedals to compensate.
Or one shifts gears to maintain optimal power and efficiency. <SNIP You cannot apply as much force to the pedals in the aero position as you can in other positions BECAUSE the big glute muscles in your butt are not working through their full range of motion where they generate enormous power.
Once again, if it is a real biomechanical advantage to recruit those muscles to produce power, then why shouldn’t they be recruited on the flats as well as the hills? If you could pedal more efficiently in any position, then your climbing will improve. You cannot pedal more efficiently uphill in most cases (except very gentle slopes of course) in the aero position.
I still don’t see a real reason WHY pedaling uphill changes pedaling efficiency. If I design a bike that has the optimally efficient biomechanical angles for pedaling on the flat, why should tipping the whole bike backward a few degrees require an alteration in those biomechanical angles? Here’s an experiment to test whether a rider should climb on the aerobars. Over several trials, have a rider record their heartrate at a given cadence and resistance level on a stationary trainer or rollers. Have them record heartrates for the aero position and their climbing position. If their heartrates are significantly different, it indicates that one position is more biomechanically efficient than the other. If the aero position has lower heartrates then the person should probably climb in that position. If the climbing position has lower heartrates, then the person should probably alter their aero position to have body angles that are like the climbing position. Two things could screw this up. 1) It may not be possible to produce an aero position that is optimally biomechanically efficient and is still comfortable for the rider; 2) Over the course of a long ride, people may actually have optimal efficiency if they periodically shift their position on the bicycle. Further experiments under controlled conditions could determine the extent to which either of these hypotheses are true. Mark Vande Kamp
OK. It seems that most people say that you sit up on hills for one of two primary reasons: 1) To open up the chest for deeper breathing; 2) To recruit different muscle groups and increase power. These reasons make some sense to me, I mean, I sit up on hills too. Still, I’ll play devil’s advocate. (deleted)
Mark- Assume your ‘vascular efficiency’ is a constant; what, then, is the variable in the equation? Volume of oxygen. Also see Alan R’s comment on climbing position. If the hill is steep enough to cause you to get off the bars, then you’re going too slow to gain any aerodynamic advantage in the first place. However, if you are in doubt about this, by all means stay on the aero bars for the entire ride/race, inlcuding all hill climbs. In fact, see if you can get other people to do the same thing. Larry K.
<Mark Vande Kamp’s interesting analysis deleted IMO, what makes hills different than riding on the flats is gravity. On the flats, your momentum will allow you to "coast" through any dead spots in your pedal stroke. On hills, gravity will punish you for these same dead spots. Because of this, pedaling form is much more important on the hills. At least for me, my form is better when I sit up. My hip flexors (which raise the femur towards the torso) have little power as my femur gets close to my torso. That creates a dead spot which is at its worst when I’m in an aero position. When I sit up, I open the femur-hip angle, increasing my hip flexor power and creating a smoother stroke. Recent studies have shown that even top racers don’t really pull up on the pedals. However, they do unweight the pedal as it’s coming up. That improves your efficiency because your desending leg doesn’t have to work as hard. One of the primary muscles needed to unweight the pedal is the hip flexor. I expect that there’s more to it than just this, but this is enough to make me happy. ;-) Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.
OK. It seems that most people say that you sit up on hills for one of two primary reasons: 1) To open up the chest for deeper breathing; 2) To recruit different muscle groups and increase power. These reasons make some sense to me, I mean, I sit up on hills too. Still, I’ll play devil’s advocate. First, this "opening the chest" thing doesn’t jive with the often- repeated idea that the limiting factor in going anaerobic isn’t the amount of air going in and out of your lungs, but your vascular efficiency in transporting the plentiful oxygen in your lungs to your muscles. It seems that "opening the chest" should have little effect on cycling power and efficiency. Second, the recruitment of different muscle groups makes sense to me on a short climb. One might not be using the most efficient position on the bike, but the energy expenditure could save time overall. On the contrary, on long, steady grades, I still don’t see why the aero position wouldn’t be optimal. If sitting up and scootching back allows me to "push the pedal over the top", or recruit muscles in my upper body, or do some other stroke alteration that increases power, then why shouldn’t we configure the bike to allow that type of a stroke on the flats or on hills? It seems to me that an efficient pedal stroke is dependent on the angles your body forms in relation to the bike – not to the ground. Those optimal bike/body angles should be the same on hills or flats. I guess what I’m questioning is the statement that "hill climbing is different". I just don’t see why that should be true. If I can pedal stronger and more efficiently by sitting up on long, steady grades, then it seems that the aero position might not have been taken far enough. I suspect that the current aero position, even on steep seat-tube bikes is still a compromise between the optimum aerodynamic position and a position that is comfortable (bearable?) given current saddle design. On the ultimate aero-position bike, one would ride on the aero-bars on the flats and on most hills, simply because one could pedal most efficiently in that position. Sitting up or standing would happen only on the steepest hills or for short stretches on longer hills as a temporary means of stretching or resting the muscles that do most of the work. What do you think? Mark Vande Kamp
OK. It seems that most people say that you sit up on hills for one of two primary reasons: 1) To open up the chest for deeper breathing; 2) To recruit different muscle groups and increase power. These reasons make some sense to me, I mean, I sit up on hills too. Still, I’ll play devil’s advocate.
Well some auditable thought just for the sake of it. If you think it turns out to be more visible dribble please wipe my chin for me!! On the flat your ultimate performance is a ratio of power/drag co-efficient. On a hill it becomes a ratio of power/weight. This then lends itself to the argument that on the flat a position that provides the most power (i.e. similar to the one that we use to climb with) may not be the most productive because we would be sitting up into the wind. Whereas, while climbing we can not reduce our weight so must increase our power and indeed (because of the lower speeds) can without increasing the drag noticably. A second argument come verbal diarea is that of peak power output verses sustainable output. I ride in a very hilly area (like most of NZ) and I ride a bike with a forward seat. I have found that moving my seat back speeds me up on the hills but slows me down on the flat. I have also found that even in our hilly course that I perform better overall with a forward seat, as I make up more on the flat than I lose on the hills. This is, I believe because on the flat I am not using my peak power output but rather my ability to produce power at higher cadences. whereas on the hills it is reversed. This would work for your position on the seat and body posture as well I would say. But then what do I know????? 
GREG.J.ABBISS :: Waitakere, Auckland, New Zealand ATTMAIL: internet!iconz.co.nz!abbiss
Inmost situations the forward position, on the aerobars is the optimal position, including many climbing situations With a few exceptions: 1. Steep climbs were you are forced to get out of the saddle and pump. 2. Short steep climbs, were a downshift isn’t enough, and it is too step to climb on the aerobars. 3. Long, climbs were your speed drops below 18mph for a long period of time. The reason for the first two were answerd in the first post,, the last situation is in answer to your question. You see when on the serobar you are in a very aero position, that is alos very powerfull on the flats and shallow climbs, but on slower, long c limbs staying in the aerobar isn’t just slower, but also can cause some problems. Climbing isn’t like riding on the flats, besides the ovious, it’s harder, you use much more of your body, especially your upper body. Most don’t climb well for many reason. Besides lack of hill training, most people don’t know how to climb, they aren’t fl uid, they are chaotic, especially on the bars. You see it is habbit to musscle the bike for most people, pull on the bars, in the aeroposition, this is almost imposible not to do, this also can make one’s back hurt like hell. You see the best way to climb in the saddle on long steepish climbs is with your hands loosly on the top bar, just tight enough to keep the bike under control, slide back on the saddle to get back over the BB and increase your realitive seat height, and just turn the pedals around as smoothly and as fast as you can. Make sure you stay loose, and relaxed… don’t tense up. Kepp your arms relaxed and slightly bent at the elbow, do not lock them up. Every once in a while get out of the saddle to strech things out and speed up into a har der gear. —arr