Question:

I think Larry has offered the best advice thus far. I too almost always see at least one or two people at a tri with a surfing type wetsuit and don’t recall any fatalities. If it’s his first tri – he’s probably not concerned about losing the podium to a slow swim time anyway, and if he’s determined to get a bargain or that’s all he can afford – it will probably keep him warm at least. I did my first tri in a Billabong surfing shorty and while it ballooned up on me like a sea anchor, I didn’t really know the difference until later on when I got a triathlon specific wetsuit. 4 years later that Quintana Roo longjohn still works just fine, but I have no idea what happened to that Billabong suit.  In a last ditch – why not check out the classified ads on inside tri or triathlete mag, or better yet, check out tribuy.com to see if there are any used wetsuit deals more suited to his price tag and sport. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There always a few Body Glove wetsuits at triathlons and AFAIK they haven’t caused anyone to drown.  If all he has is $44 then a BG wetsuit beats hypothermia.  If the water is warm he’s better off without it it will probably slow him down.  If he intends to use a wetsuit regularly in triathlons he should spend the extra bucks and get the right equipment. Larry I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! Thanks

Response:

I had one for my first three seasons. They are very heavy, bulky, and water-absorbent. I got through the beginning with it, but, now having a QR LongJohn, I would say his $44.00 would be better spent towards a real triathlon-designed wetsuit. The major triathlon stores have them on closeout regularly, and you can get good prices! I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! Thanks

– Bernie Hall                                            o                         __o          </_                         <        __ /       /o__      (0)  (0)           /

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Tell him to look into Promotion suits.  They usually have last years suits at this time of the year marked down to some really good prices.  I bought mine at 50% off for 100 bucks.  It is a really nice suit and fits perfectly. Richard "IronCop wannabe" in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! Thanks

Response:

I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! Thanks

Response:

You might not convince him with the "drowning" argument (he will definitely not: surf-suits even have more rubber than swim-suits) But just remind him how it will be when he chafes up his neck and armpits and then has to swim a couple of yards in salt-water or spend a sweaty hour on the bike and another couple of minutes running with sweat rinsing his rashes… really painful ! trInIc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! Thanks

Response:

I’d imagine getting off will be harder as it won’t be as flexible as a TOTL Tri suit. Phil

| You might not convince him with the "drowning" argument (he will definitely | not: surf-suits even have more rubber than swim-suits) | But just remind him how it will be when he chafes up his neck and armpits | and then has to swim a couple of yards in salt-water or spend a sweaty hour | on the bike and another couple of minutes running with sweat rinsing his | rashes… | | really painful ! | | trInIc | | I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a | Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very | appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri | wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! | | Thanks | | |

Response:

You might not convince him with the "drowning" argument (he will definitely not: surf-suits even have more rubber than swim-suits)

But it’s thinner. I have two surfing/diving suits, one full length and one BG shorty – I sink with them layered one over the other, but my tri wesuit (a Performance shorty) will float me.  Tri wetsuits are made thicker in key areas to provide floatation.

Response:

There always a few Body Glove wetsuits at triathlons and AFAIK they haven’t caused anyone to drown.  If all he has is $44 then a BG wetsuit beats hypothermia.  If the water is warm he’s better off without it it will probably slow him down.  If he intends to use a wetsuit regularly in triathlons he should spend the extra bucks and get the right equipment. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend is new to tri. I’m trying to convince him not to buy a Body glove Surfing wetsuit for his first ocean swim.  The price is very appealing to him ($44).  Does BG have the same properties as a tri wetsuit?  I don’t think so.  HELP!!!  He might drown! Thanks

Response:

Question:

I agree with the salt tablets thing- salt is critical over a long race.  You need to figure out how much you need though, don’t take anyone elses word for it.  I was doing Hawaii a couple of years ago and this awful headache came during the bike.  I took my first salt tablet to see if that would help and presto. As for eating, I take on protein during the race- the 2nd half of the bike (special needs bag- mixed protein powder and cytomax in a bottle) and another in T2 before the start of the run.  I needed something solid in the stomach after about 8 hours too (Mr. Stomach doesn’t like just fluids and gels all day long). I found that Carb-BOOM is the best gel – it tastes really good (its fruit flavored, not a gooey-pudding like stuff like the others), digests well (no bloating) and is really economical in terms of the amount of carbohydrates you get for what $$ you spend. The big thing is race with the same stuff you trained with- dont try ANYTHING new on race day !! good luck !!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear from Ironman veterans to see what type of food/drinks worked well and not for you during the bike/run portions. What, if any, liquid meals did you take? What food/bars do you eat? How much/how often do you it? (How many calories should I try to consume? I weigh 160lbs – avg normal male). What about other supplements before or during the race? Salt tablets? Specific formulas? Balance 40-30-30 drinks? Cytomax? CarboPro? Bananas? Clif bars? Turkey Sandwich? Any and all help is appreciated. Andy Seitz 1st timer Ironman California

Response:

I find the following works for me. I have a shot of hammer gel and a swig of water before the swim. On the bike behind the saddle I have a litre bike bottle full of mixed but highly concentrated Maxim CHO and a another bottle of mixed but concentrated Maxim fluid replacement (mixed fast/slow CHO and salts). In my bar bottle I have a ready mix of maxim CHO. When that gets low I squirt some of the concentrate into the bar bottle and top it up with a bottle of water from an aid station. I alternate CHO and fluid replacement. If I feel like it I’ll have shots of gel and bits of powerbar as and when I can stomach them. I drink around a litre an hour (400cals) and at IME I peed 5 times in 5:55 on the bike. Advantages of the above system are that I have exactly the drink I want when I want it and I can easily keep track of my CHO and fluid consumption. Disadvantages are the weight, 2 litres is like 4,5lbs, so on a hilly course that would be a problem, and you pee a lot. I don’t stop to pee so I don’t lose time that way. I don’t eat any solids after about mile 80 on the bike. On the run I walk or jog every aid station. I aim to take a big shot of hammer/power gel before every station and then drink at least two cups of water. At IME I craved salty things on the run and wolfed down crackers when I could get them. I also drank flat coke and ate apple and melon slices. I had no digestion problems and didn’t come close to bonking, well once when I forgot to take my gel before an aid station so I went about 25 mins without and cals and my HR dropped to 128! I practised eating like a glutton on some of my long training rides/runs so I knew what my stomach could tolerate. I always dehydrate as I sweat like a horse so I try to drink as much fluid as possible as soon as I finish, once I passed out as a result of just eating. :-/ HTH and of course YMMV! Phil  grab a water bottle from a

| I’d like to hear from Ironman veterans to see what type of food/drinks | worked well and not for you during the bike/run portions. | | What, if any, liquid meals did you take? What food/bars do you eat? How | much/how often do you it? (How many calories should I try to consume? I | weigh 160lbs – avg normal male). What about other supplements before or | during the race? Salt tablets? Specific formulas? Balance 40-30-30 drinks? | Cytomax? CarboPro? Bananas? Clif bars? Turkey Sandwich? | | Any and all help is appreciated. | | Andy Seitz | 1st timer Ironman California | |

Response:

I’d like to hear from Ironman veterans to see what type of food/drinks worked well and not for you during the bike/run portions. What, if any, liquid meals did you take? What food/bars do you eat? How much/how often do you it? (How many calories should I try to consume? I weigh 160lbs – avg normal male). What about other supplements before or during the race? Salt tablets? Specific formulas? Balance 40-30-30 drinks? Cytomax? CarboPro? Bananas? Clif bars? Turkey Sandwich? Any and all help is appreciated. Andy Seitz 1st timer Ironman California

Response:

What, if any, liquid meals did you take? What food/bars do you eat? How much/how often do you it? (How many calories should I try to consume? I weigh 160lbs – avg normal male). What about other supplements before or during the race? Salt tablets? Specific formulas? Balance 40-30-30 drinks? Cytomax? CarboPro? Bananas? Clif bars? Turkey Sandwich? Any and all help is appreciated. Andy Seitz 1st timer Ironman California

My first IM I used mostly Cliff bars and Gatorade.  That worked well but I never ate another Cliff bar again and never will.  The race went well but I was very ill after (not blaming Cliff bars), was actually lack of salt in my body. My second IM I performed terribley.  I abandoned all drink except water because I coudn’t stomache the provided beverage(raceday).  Result again, sickness from salt loss and a poor time.  My third IM which I did after 3 months of very little training and quite a bit of goofing off (boozing, eating bad ect…) was my best yet and I finished feeling great!  I attribute this to a very simple but effective nutrition plan. (I don’t gaurentee it will work for you but it did for me)  I Drank Gatorade and water on the bike(about 2 gatorades for each water) enough so I peed twice during the bike.  I ate 3 vanilla goo’s each hour during the bike.  At the bike/run transition I craved sweets and ate 2 cookies and a dixie cup full of Lemon Heads(candy), these where supplied in the tent( I think the lemon heads where aboanded my someone actually).  During the first 4-5 miles of the run I stuck to the plan I had trained with (gatorade and vanilla goo) but grew tired of it and decided to switch to flat coke.  Drank 2 cups of coke every mile thereafter and didn’t walk a step, felt great and steady throughout and went on to a PR.  Also very importantly I took one salt tablet each hour during the bike and run for a total of 9-10.  I did of course train with gatorade, vanilla goo and the salt tablets all year, but not with the coke.  I will definately use this plan again for my next IM with the exception of the boozing and lack of training! tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

That’s pretty funny to hear because of my own experience with Ironman and Clif bars. I trained all summer long on Clif bars, Hammer Gel, and Cytomax, my favorite Clif bar being the Carrot Cake flavor. I bought a whole case to take with me to Lake Placid, and on race day I had my bags stuffed full of them. I ate the first one in due process, but that was it – I couldn’t bring myself to eat another single Clif bar the entire day – and I’ve never eaten once since! I did have several of the smaller Hammer Gel bottles with me, and had to rely on them mostly all day. I wished I had more Hammer Gel. I saw one guy do something that I will do next time – in his bottle carrier on the frame of his bike he had the large Hammer Gel bottle – the one you fill up the smaller ones from. I sure wished I had that much Hammer Gel with me on the bike – it was all my stomach could stand. For some reason I just couldn’t bring myself to eat a Clif bar under race conditions – I was queasy to begin with on the bike – and they made it worse. I planned on ingesting 500 calories or so every hour but that fell far short of my needs for racing – it was Ok for training – I bonked at 5 hours – and was only on the 2nd lap of the bike course. Lotsa luck at IMCA! IronMike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first IM I used mostly Cliff bars and Gatorade.  That worked well but I never ate another Cliff bar again and never will.  The race went well but I was very ill after (not blaming Cliff bars), was actually lack of salt in my body. My second IM I performed terribley.  I abandoned all drink except water because I coudn’t stomache the provided beverage(raceday).  Result again, sickness from salt loss and a poor time.  My third IM which I did after 3 months of very little training and quite a bit of goofing off (boozing, eating bad ect…) was my best yet and I finished feeling great!  I attribute this to a very simple but effective nutrition plan. (I don’t gaurentee it will work for you but it did for me)  I Drank Gatorade and water on the bike(about 2 gatorades for each water) enough so I peed twice during the bike.  I ate 3 vanilla goo’s each hour during the bike.  At the bike/run transition I craved sweets and ate 2 cookies and a dixie cup full of Lemon Heads(candy), these where supplied in the tent( I think the lemon heads where aboanded my someone actually).  During the first 4-5 miles of the run I stuck to the plan I had trained with (gatorade and vanilla goo) but grew tired of it and decided to switch to flat coke. Drank 2 cups of coke every mile thereafter and didn’t walk a step, felt great and steady throughout and went on to a PR.  Also very importantly I took one salt tablet each hour during the bike and run for a total of 9-10.  I did of course train with gatorade, vanilla goo and the salt tablets all year, but not with the coke.  I will definately use this plan again for my next IM with the exception of the boozing and lack of training! tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

Question:

btw, is this really the hardest Iroman race? not that I think I should do it *laugh* Ro Tri Preston S.C.

I think Extremetri still has the race report for this year’s race in its archives. If you look at the pictures on the report, you will see one of the several switchbacks that are on that bike course. Ouch!

Response:

A friend was looking for an entry form and he needed an address to contact them for info    thanks The official web site has only an electronic entry form – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did the race race this year and I firmly believe that it was the hardest race I will ever do.  If you go prepare for wind like you have never experienced before along with very little flat ground on the bike and warm temps on the run. With that said I would recommend it to any and everyone.  Easily one of the greatest experiences of my triathlon career.  The swim takes place at Playa Blanca in Puerto del Carmen, the island’s main tourist location, and is two loops in fairly calm water of the Atlantic (no waves, but lots of wind chop). The bike course although difficult is magnificent, one loop around the entire island (a rarity in many of today’s multi-loop Ironman races).  The run is four loops along the coastal road in Puerto del Carmen with lots of spectators and activity. Their slogan "The Normal Limits Don’t Apply" really holds true. The people of Lanzarote and Club La Santa get very excited about the race and make the whole experience really wonderful. Hope this helps a bit.  The race web page has lots of information, www.ironmanlanzarote.com cheers, Todd You might also want to try their offical site: http://www.ironmanlanzarote.com/ btw, is this really the hardest Iroman race? not that I think I should do it *laugh* Ro Tri Preston S.C. any info req

– MZ

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any info req

Response:

any info req

Not quite sure what you’re looking for but most triathletes go there to train at Club La Santa http://www.clublasanta.co.uk/ (provisional address for info) Steve

Response:

You might also want to try their offical site: http://www.ironmanlanzarote.com/ btw, is this really the hardest Iroman race? not that I think I should do it *laugh* Ro Tri Preston S.C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – any info req

Response:

I did the race race this year and I firmly believe that it was the hardest race I will ever do.  If you go prepare for wind like you have never experienced before along with very little flat ground on the bike and warm temps on the run. With that said I would recommend it to any and everyone.  Easily one of the greatest experiences of my triathlon career.  The swim takes place at Playa Blanca in Puerto del Carmen, the island’s main tourist location, and is two loops in fairly calm water of the Atlantic (no waves, but lots of wind chop). The bike course although difficult is magnificent, one loop around the entire island (a rarity in many of today’s multi-loop Ironman races).  The run is four loops along the coastal road in Puerto del Carmen with lots of spectators and activity. Their slogan "The Normal Limits Don’t Apply" really holds true. The people of Lanzarote and Club La Santa get very excited about the race and make the whole experience really wonderful. Hope this helps a bit.  The race web page has lots of information, www.ironmanlanzarote.com cheers, Todd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might also want to try their offical site: http://www.ironmanlanzarote.com/ btw, is this really the hardest Iroman race? not that I think I should do it *laugh* Ro Tri Preston S.C. any info req

Response:

Question:

I’m doing the Disney half….. (OK I’m a wimp) but I’ll buy some if the man decides to do a run of them… brian Keep in mind my idea..wearing them at the disney marathon….

.

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ok it seems many of you know of these shorts…some like them some dont… I’m a fat slob right now..I look silly running anyhow but I’d love to own a pair.. actually I’d spring for 2 pair…who else would like a pair????? Keep in mind my idea..wearing them at the disney marathon…. perhaps if the performance you give wont get you noticed…the shorts will…   {the movie 101 Dalmations}    John Hansen  Sarasota  Fl.

Response:

The Dalmatian shorts sounds like it is in keeping with the Disney spirit. However some of you may know Farol from Gainesville. He has had a Dalmatian costume for years. In fact we had Dalmatian head (arm) bands a couple of years ago so we could recognize each other. Dont let this dissuade you from getting the shorts, it lends to the festive atmosphere. Charlie

Response:

I’ve never seen them, but would be in the market for a pair or two. ) Jeff Larson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ok it seems many of you know of these shorts…some like them some dont… I’m a fat slob right now..I look silly running anyhow but I’d love to own a pair.. actually I’d spring for 2 pair…who else would like a pair????? Keep in mind my idea..wearing them at the disney marathon…. perhaps if the performance you give wont get you noticed…the shorts will…  {the movie 101 Dalmations} John Hansen Sarasota  Fl.

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I guess interest in these is not to great……oh well thanks for responding any way RST ers…  John Hansen  Sarasota  Fl.

Response:

Good try J!  I will keep asking on my end too.  I will post RST if we make them so you get first crack at them. Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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Question:

The Runner’s Web is compiling a list of Millenium Runs/Races. We have started with a few I could find. The listing is available from the FrontPage of the Runner’s Web. If you are aware of any, please forward the web site or other relevant Thanks. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

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You might wish to check out this month’s Runners World.  It has an article on millenium races.  Good luck! Paul Gelinas — On a Mission:  3 hr., 17 min., on 10/3/99, at Twin Cities Marathon

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Thanks for this site.  I am bound and determined to do a millenium run…where, the sky is the limit.  I am interested in a 10k at the least, but preferably a half marathon.

Two comments:  First, if you’re aiming for ‘a sky is the limit’ and perhaps a half marathon (insert my .02 here) you may as well go for a marathon.  A sense of accomplishment and not that much more training.  Second, millennium has 2 ‘n’s. You’re certainly welcome at Hartford or Pittsburgh. Jenifer or Jennifer – Pedantic R Us

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Thanks for this site.  I am bound and determined to do a millenium run…where, the sky is the limit.  I am interested in a 10k at the least, but preferably a half marathon.  I have bookmarked this site and will keep checking back. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Runner’s Web is compiling a list of Millenium Runs/Races. We have started with a few I could find. The listing is available from the FrontPage of the Runner’s Web. If you are aware of any, please forward the web site or other relevant Thanks.

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Question:

I prefer to use the Nowavo Immersion(r) technique for reducing the possibility of drafting.  This technique requires that you do the entire swim leg underwater, face up, blowing copious amounts of air through your nose to tickly the bellies of the competitors you are swimming beneath.

Why do all that, I just blow the bubbles out the leg of my wetsuit;-) D.J.        (the little stinker IRONKID)

Response:

Dan: My reply to this person’s post was not meant to become a debate with or …

Enough of this kid gloves diplomatic gentlemanly stuff.  It’s time for each of you to put on your wetsuit, come on down to the local pond and go for it.  Whoever wins should then shout 100 times I Told You So.  It doesn’t matter who is the better swimmer; we know the occupant of the suit just goes along for the ride in either one of your self-propelling suits.   Ruth Kazez

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Ruth: Great idea!! Dan are you in?? O.K., so this will once and for all prove the speed tests. Now how do I convince Dan that the "Vo2 Stealth" will make him more attractive to the opposite sex, improve his IQ, and get rid of any touch of gray? It is obvious that Dan and I are very passionate about our products and what we do in this industry. This will explain why we both have a great deal of respect for one another. Don’t be surprised if you see Dan and I drinking "mai tai’s" in Kona, and laughing over our posts! Cheers- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan: My reply to this person’s post was not meant to become a debate with or … Enough of this kid gloves diplomatic gentlemanly stuff.  It’s time for each of you to put on your wetsuit, come on down to the local pond and go for it.  Whoever wins should then shout 100 times I Told You So.  It doesn’t matter who is the better swimmer; we know the occupant of the suit just goes along for the ride in either one of your self-propelling suits. Ruth Kazez

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Great idea!! Dan are you in??

knowing what kind of swim shape i’m in, and what kind of shape you’re always in, the only way i’ll agree to a swim off is if i swim in your suit and you in mine.  then the winner gets the bragging rights. Don’t be surprised if you see Dan and I drinking "mai tai’s" in Kona, and laughing over our posts!

…and, who knows?  maybe discussing keith’s new responsibilities qrman

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Keith, What the HECK is VO2 "output"?  It has always been apparent to me that the MORE O2 utilized the better.  In order to have a higher VO2 (which by definition is oxygen consumption) one has to train hard, eat right, get lots of sleep and pick the right parents.  Simple really. Mick O. Exercise Physiologist, Pitt PS Expired oxygen is generally written FEO2. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John: Thanks for your post, and the delicate way that you asked the question. I will try to answer this question as briefly as possible. The University of Calagary has supplied us with 5 pages of technical data which proves that the "VO2 STEALTH SUIT" actually increases your Vo2 Output over conventional wetsuits. We will be adding these test results to our web page in the near future. The "VO2 STEALTH" was designed specifically to increase your power output during the swim. It is a simple known fact that every swimmer will swim faster with a wetsuit. (This is due to buoyancy & hydrodynamics) It is also a known fact that you will swim stronger without a wetsuit. This is because all wetsuits (except for the "VO2 STEALTH") are designed on a one dimisional symmetry between the athlete and the wetsuit. This design restricts breathing and reduces your VO2 Metabolic performance. Keep in mind that the buoyancy & hydrodynamic benefits of a wetsuit far out weigh any performance lost due to the lowered VO2 output. Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits has designed the "VO2 STEALTH" to outperform all other suits hydrodynamically, while also reducing the lowered VO2 metabolic performance that occurs while wearing other wetsuit designs. This was accomplished by designing the suit on a 3-dimisional symmetry between wetsuit and athlete. These additional chest panels increase comfort while enhancing your ability to consume oxygen. This was achieved without effecting the hydrodynamic benefits of the wetsuit itself. The "VO2 STEALTH" is the first and only wetsuit in world designed with these 3-dimensional chest panels. We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. We outfitted our sponsored professionals early in the season and word spread quickly amongst the pros that the "VO2 STEALTH" suit gave significant advantages over any other wetsuit. (Ask Peter Reid, Lori Bowden, Wendy Ingrahmn, Tim Deboom, Michelle Jones, Nate Llerandi, Scott Tinley, and Paul Huddle to name a few) The anti-drafting feature is much easier to explain. We use a proprietary rubber on the back panel of all of our elite range wetsuits. This material breaks up water as it passes over the wetsuit. This greatly minimizes the slipstream effect providing improved hydrodynamics and reduces your rear wake. (We found this to work by accident.) The rubber was actually designed to increase the flexibility, and dissipate heat in warmer water temperatures. Please give me a call if you have any other technical questions. Best regards- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits.  I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

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Caution:  Do not try this without the use of your endomosis wetsuit to continually replenish your oxygen supply.  Also, nose-plug swimmers have been known to explode when attempting Nowavo Immersion(r).

The image that this conjures up is absolutely *PRICELESS* (not to mention hysterically funny).  Thank you, Mark!! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Mick and Kieth- I have always been confused by this in the Ironman suit ads as well.  A higher VO2 output seems to me the exact opposite of what you want.  If the suit really worked to make you faster you should have a lower VO2 at the same speed over other suits (i.e. less energy required to go the same speed therefore able to maintain higher speed at the same VO2).   Can you explain what is meant by "VO2 output"?  I understand that your max VO2 will be lower swimming than cycling than running but that is simply because of issues like muscle mass involvement and body position. Scott Schnitzspahn (also an Exercise Physiologist from Ohio State) Scott Schnitzspahn Head Coach – President Endurance Sports Solutions, Ltd. http://www.enduranet.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith, What the HECK is VO2 "output"?  It has always been apparent to me that the MORE O2 utilized the better.  In order to have a higher VO2 (which by definition is oxygen consumption) one has to train hard, eat right, get lots of sleep and pick the right parents.  Simple really. Mick O. Exercise Physiologist, Pitt PS  Expired oxygen is generally written FEO2. PPS  I have used O’Neill suits for 12 years and would recommend them to anyone! John: Thanks for your post, and the delicate way that you asked the question. I will try to answer this question as briefly as possible. The University of Calagary has supplied us with 5 pages of technical data which proves that the "VO2 STEALTH SUIT" actually increases your Vo2 Output over conventional wetsuits. We will be adding these test results to our web page in the near future. The "VO2 STEALTH" was designed specifically to increase your power output during the swim. It is a simple known fact that every swimmer will swim faster with a wetsuit. (This is due to buoyancy & hydrodynamics) It is also a known fact that you will swim stronger without a wetsuit. This is because all wetsuits (except for the "VO2 STEALTH") are designed on a one dimisional symmetry between the athlete and the wetsuit. This design restricts breathing and reduces your VO2 Metabolic performance. Keep in mind that the buoyancy & hydrodynamic benefits of a wetsuit far out weigh any performance lost due to the lowered VO2 output. Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits has designed the "VO2 STEALTH" to outperform all other suits hydrodynamically, while also reducing the lowered VO2 metabolic performance that occurs while wearing other wetsuit designs. This was accomplished by designing the suit on a 3-dimisional symmetry between wetsuit and athlete. These additional chest panels increase comfort while enhancing your ability to consume oxygen. This was achieved without effecting the hydrodynamic benefits of the wetsuit itself. The "VO2 STEALTH" is the first and only wetsuit in world designed with these 3-dimensional chest panels. We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. We outfitted our sponsored professionals early in the season and word spread quickly amongst the pros that the "VO2 STEALTH" suit gave significant advantages over any other wetsuit. (Ask Peter Reid, Lori Bowden, Wendy Ingrahmn, Tim Deboom, Michelle Jones, Nate Llerandi, Scott Tinley, and Paul Huddle to name a few) The anti-drafting feature is much easier to explain. We use a proprietary rubber on the back panel of all of our elite range wetsuits. This material breaks up water as it passes over the wetsuit. This greatly minimizes the slipstream effect providing improved hydrodynamics and reduces your rear wake. (We found this to work by accident.) The rubber was actually designed to increase the flexibility, and dissipate heat in warmer water temperatures. Please give me a call if you have any other technical questions. Best regards- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits.  I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

Response:

Mick: I will send you the test data from the "University of Calgary". You should find this quite interesting. Please forward your mailing address. Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith, What the HECK is VO2 "output"?  It has always been apparent to me that the MORE O2 utilized the better.  In order to have a higher VO2 (which by definition is oxygen consumption) one has to train hard, eat right, get lots of sleep and pick the right parents.  Simple really. Mick O. Exercise Physiologist, Pitt PS  Expired oxygen is generally written FEO2. PPS  I have used O’Neill suits for 12 years and would recommend them to anyone! John: Thanks for your post, and the delicate way that you asked the question. I will try to answer this question as briefly as possible. The University of Calagary has supplied us with 5 pages of technical data which proves that the "VO2 STEALTH SUIT" actually increases your Vo2 Output over conventional wetsuits. We will be adding these test results to our web page in the near future. The "VO2 STEALTH" was designed specifically to increase your power output during the swim. It is a simple known fact that every swimmer will swim faster with a wetsuit. (This is due to buoyancy & hydrodynamics) It is also a known fact that you will swim stronger without a wetsuit. This is because all wetsuits (except for the "VO2 STEALTH") are designed on a one dimisional symmetry between the athlete and the wetsuit. This design restricts breathing and reduces your VO2 Metabolic performance. Keep in mind that the buoyancy & hydrodynamic benefits of a wetsuit far out weigh any performance lost due to the lowered VO2 output. Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits has designed the "VO2 STEALTH" to outperform all other suits hydrodynamically, while also reducing the lowered VO2 metabolic performance that occurs while wearing other wetsuit designs. This was accomplished by designing the suit on a 3-dimisional symmetry between wetsuit and athlete. These additional chest panels increase comfort while enhancing your ability to consume oxygen. This was achieved without effecting the hydrodynamic benefits of the wetsuit itself. The "VO2 STEALTH" is the first and only wetsuit in world designed with these 3-dimensional chest panels. We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. We outfitted our sponsored professionals early in the season and word spread quickly amongst the pros that the "VO2 STEALTH" suit gave significant advantages over any other wetsuit. (Ask Peter Reid, Lori Bowden, Wendy Ingrahmn, Tim Deboom, Michelle Jones, Nate Llerandi, Scott Tinley, and Paul Huddle to name a few) The anti-drafting feature is much easier to explain. We use a proprietary rubber on the back panel of all of our elite range wetsuits. This material breaks up water as it passes over the wetsuit. This greatly minimizes the slipstream effect providing improved hydrodynamics and reduces your rear wake. (We found this to work by accident.) The rubber was actually designed to increase the flexibility, and dissipate heat in warmer water temperatures. Please give me a call if you have any other technical questions. Best regards- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits. I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

Response:

Keith, What the HECK is VO2 "output"?  It has always been apparent to me that the MORE O2 utilized the better.  In order to have a higher VO2 (which by definition is oxygen consumption) one has to train hard, eat right, get lots of sleep and pick the right parents.  Simple really. Mick O. Exercise Physiologist, Pitt PS  Expired oxygen is generally written FEO2. PPS  I have used O’Neill suits for 12 years and would recommend them to anyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John: Thanks for your post, and the delicate way that you asked the question. I will try to answer this question as briefly as possible. The University of Calagary has supplied us with 5 pages of technical data which proves that the "VO2 STEALTH SUIT" actually increases your Vo2 Output over conventional wetsuits. We will be adding these test results to our web page in the near future. The "VO2 STEALTH" was designed specifically to increase your power output during the swim. It is a simple known fact that every swimmer will swim faster with a wetsuit. (This is due to buoyancy & hydrodynamics) It is also a known fact that you will swim stronger without a wetsuit. This is because all wetsuits (except for the "VO2 STEALTH") are designed on a one dimisional symmetry between the athlete and the wetsuit. This design restricts breathing and reduces your VO2 Metabolic performance. Keep in mind that the buoyancy & hydrodynamic benefits of a wetsuit far out weigh any performance lost due to the lowered VO2 output. Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits has designed the "VO2 STEALTH" to outperform all other suits hydrodynamically, while also reducing the lowered VO2 metabolic performance that occurs while wearing other wetsuit designs. This was accomplished by designing the suit on a 3-dimisional symmetry between wetsuit and athlete. These additional chest panels increase comfort while enhancing your ability to consume oxygen. This was achieved without effecting the hydrodynamic benefits of the wetsuit itself. The "VO2 STEALTH" is the first and only wetsuit in world designed with these 3-dimensional chest panels. We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. We outfitted our sponsored professionals early in the season and word spread quickly amongst the pros that the "VO2 STEALTH" suit gave significant advantages over any other wetsuit. (Ask Peter Reid, Lori Bowden, Wendy Ingrahmn, Tim Deboom, Michelle Jones, Nate Llerandi, Scott Tinley, and Paul Huddle to name a few) The anti-drafting feature is much easier to explain. We use a proprietary rubber on the back panel of all of our elite range wetsuits. This material breaks up water as it passes over the wetsuit. This greatly minimizes the slipstream effect providing improved hydrodynamics and reduces your rear wake. (We found this to work by accident.) The rubber was actually designed to increase the flexibility, and dissipate heat in warmer water temperatures. Please give me a call if you have any other technical questions. Best regards- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits.  I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

Response:

Gentlemen! Dan…..Keith…..this post is my official offer to be a wetsuit mercenary! First wetsuit that arrives at my front doorstep <no charge and postage paid of course gets my undying loyalty.  I promise to savagely swim over any competitor using the "enemy’s" brand wetsuit at my next triathlon due to my new found speed.  (At present I sport a Promotion brand shortie which has none of the gee-whiz rubber so I am looking for at least a 10% increase in speed). Heck….I might even bike and run in the darn thing if ya throw in a pair of goggles! Email me for sizing and style preferences.   Thanks, Greg Nelson PS    I dont need no space age material to produce less wake to slow my drafting competitors down…I just swim slower!

Response:

but it is, after all, simply a wetsuit, and like our own, will help you swim, but will not make you more attractive to the opposite sex, increase your IQ, or get rid of that touch of gray. qrman

Well Dan, you just lost a sale Gerard Vroomen, Cervelo Cycles website: http://www.cervelo.com

Response:

John: Thanks for your post, and the delicate way that you asked the question. I will try to answer this question as briefly as possible. The University of Calagary has supplied us with 5 pages of technical data which proves that the "VO2 STEALTH SUIT" actually increases your Vo2 Output over conventional wetsuits. We will be adding these test results to our web page in the near future. The "VO2 STEALTH" was designed specifically to increase your power output during the swim. It is a simple known fact that every swimmer will swim faster with a wetsuit. (This is due to buoyancy & hydrodynamics) It is also a known fact that you will swim stronger without a wetsuit. This is because all wetsuits (except for the "VO2 STEALTH") are designed on a one dimisional symmetry between the athlete and the wetsuit. This design restricts breathing and reduces your VO2 Metabolic performance. Keep in mind that the buoyancy & hydrodynamic benefits of a wetsuit far out weigh any performance lost due to the lowered VO2 output. Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits has designed the "VO2 STEALTH" to outperform all other suits hydrodynamically, while also reducing the lowered VO2 metabolic performance that occurs while wearing other wetsuit designs. This was accomplished by designing the suit on a 3-dimisional symmetry between wetsuit and athlete. These additional chest panels increase comfort while enhancing your ability to consume oxygen. This was achieved without effecting the hydrodynamic benefits of the wetsuit itself. The "VO2 STEALTH" is the first and only wetsuit in world designed with these 3-dimensional chest panels. We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. We outfitted our sponsored professionals early in the season and word spread quickly amongst the pros that the "VO2 STEALTH" suit gave significant advantages over any other wetsuit. (Ask Peter Reid, Lori Bowden, Wendy Ingrahmn, Tim Deboom, Michelle Jones, Nate Llerandi, Scott Tinley, and Paul Huddle to name a few) The anti-drafting feature is much easier to explain. We use a proprietary rubber on the back panel of all of our elite range wetsuits. This material breaks up water as it passes over the wetsuit. This greatly minimizes the slipstream effect providing improved hydrodynamics and reduces your rear wake. (We found this to work by accident.) The rubber was actually designed to increase the flexibility, and dissipate heat in warmer water temperatures. Please give me a call if you have any other technical questions. Best regards- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits.  I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

Response:

How does the explain the different feel in the QR Hydro and the VO2 suit

the art of wetsuit design is in the pattern making.  sometimes copying a successful competitor’s wetsuit extends to using the rubber they use.  but one european tri suit which has been around for eight or ten years took a more drastic shortcut and simply copied our patterns, i.e., reverse engineered our suits.   ironman never did that to us, they have their own patterns which make the suit fit & feel differently than ours, but not necessarily worse.  you can expect a fairly big difference between the suits, and between our two suits and orca.  but the difference is mostly in the patterns and features, not the rubber. qrman

Response:

Dan: My reply to this person’s post was not meant to become a debate with or against you. I was simply answering his questions. I stand behind everything that was written. With all due respect to you, we do use a proprietary rubber that is not found in any of your wetsuits. The speed tests that I was referring to, are independent tests and were not done by our company. Our claim of having almost every top professional pro in our suit is a valid one. I stress the word top. I never said more pro’s wear our suit than any other. I am very proud of the world class professional triathletes that have chosen to wear our suit. Thanks for your closing comments. I appreciate the compliment. I do enjoy the friendly competition between our two companies. I hold great respect for many people in this industry including yourself. Best regards, Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – with all due respect, keith, i certainly hope you sell enough wetsuits to keep going, but ironman wetsuits has had "truth in advertising" issues since before you were running the show, and i hope it doesn’t continue under your stewardship.  among the things i hope we don’t stoop to are: 1.  …trying to tell the public there are meaningful differences in the materials we use.  as you know, we both buy from the same supplier.  there are features that each of us can point to, i.e., you use a superstretch panel under the arm, we glue & blindstitch the entire arm of thinner– and therefore stretchier– rubber than you.  is your way better or ours? that’s a worthwhile discussion.  but you don’t have any secret formula rubber that does anything special hydrodynamically.  the only thing you did to increase your suits’ hydrodynamics was start buying the rubber Tommy Yamamoto developed for QR, after our season of exclusivity.  Smart move on your part. 2. …trying to say which suit is faster based on our own proprietary tests:  i had to endure years of your predecessor claiming that yours was the world’s fastest wetsuit based on some vapor test he could never produce.  it was out of that exasperation that we published, and still publish, the results of fitness swimmer’s test which had both good and bad things to say about both our suits, but CLEARLY placed ours first insofar as speed was concerned.  i’d be happy to pull the ad, and future such ads, if you will discontinue the ridiculous claims your predecessor started. 3.  …claiming the majority of the pros swim in one suit or the other:  i took two wetsuit surveys this year, at the first USTS in phoenix, and at USTS oceanside.  at phoenix, TJ Fry, i think it was, wore an aquaman. every other male pro was in a QR, 25 in total.  oceanside was quite similar, but with twice as many pros.  so far as the pro women go, if they’re not swimming in QR they seem to be choosing Orca.  i haven’t made an issue of these actual & true numbers at all, and i’d like to keep the public discourse amiable.  but i’m happy to share these statistics in ads if that’s what you’d prefer.  so give it a rest with the… We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. in closing may i say that, notwithstanding the above, i sure as hell enjoy keith simmons’ style of business– in general– compared to that of his predecessor.  keith is a great guy, a worthy competitor, so much so that we’ve tried to get him to join forces with us.  also, keith’s suit, ironman, which is built in new zealand by some very nice guys, is a great suit, and i have no problem losing a sale to this company.  but it is, after all, simply a wetsuit, and like our own, will help you swim, but will not make you more attractive to the opposite sex, increase your IQ, or get rid of that touch of gray. qrman

Response:

: 1.  …trying to tell the public there are meaningful differences in the : materials we use.  as you know, we both buy from the same supplier.  there How does the explain the different feel in the QR Hydro and the VO2 suit Dan and Keith?  I’ve swam in both, and at least to me, the two suits had a very different feel in the stretch, flexibility, and what Keith calls the 3-dimensional symmetry. : suit, and i have no problem losing a sale to this company.  but it is, : after all, simply a wetsuit, and like our own, will help you swim, but : will not make you more attractive to the opposite sex, increase your IQ, : or get rid of that touch of gray. Hmmmm, damn, I won’t say which suit I’ve decided to swim in this year, but I certainly haven’t gotten any more dates because of it.  I’ll post a post-IMC report detailing it.  I’ll wear both suits to morning swims, and we’ll see which one people flock to more.  That will make the race morning decision.  In all honesty, having fit people for wetsuits for several years, there’s no one right answer I don’t think.  MAYBE there’s a difference for a pro, but for the rest of us, I don’t honestly think we’re going to get much more of an advantage by choosing one over the other.  Choose the one that feels best to *you*. — Jason Mayfield, Arlington VA Persist, Persevere, Deny, Pursue, Pain, Survive, Ignore, Endure, Strive, Laugh, Cry, Live, Prevail, Scream, Sweat, Bleed, Sustain, Learn, Ascend, Give, Get, GO!  21 Days Until Ironman Canada ‘98

Response:

with all due respect, keith, i certainly hope you sell enough wetsuits to keep going, but ironman wetsuits has had "truth in advertising" issues since before you were running the show, and i hope it doesn’t continue under your stewardship.  among the things i hope we don’t stoop to are: 1.  …trying to tell the public there are meaningful differences in the materials we use.  as you know, we both buy from the same supplier.  there are features that each of us can point to, i.e., you use a superstretch panel under the arm, we glue & blindstitch the entire arm of thinner– and therefore stretchier– rubber than you.  is your way better or ours? that’s a worthwhile discussion.  but you don’t have any secret formula rubber that does anything special hydrodynamically.  the only thing you did to increase your suits’ hydrodynamics was start buying the rubber Tommy Yamamoto developed for QR, after our season of exclusivity.  Smart move on your part. 2. …trying to say which suit is faster based on our own proprietary tests:  i had to endure years of your predecessor claiming that yours was the world’s fastest wetsuit based on some vapor test he could never produce.  it was out of that exasperation that we published, and still publish, the results of fitness swimmer’s test which had both good and bad things to say about both our suits, but CLEARLY placed ours first insofar as speed was concerned.  i’d be happy to pull the ad, and future such ads, if you will discontinue the ridiculous claims your predecessor started. 3.  …claiming the majority of the pros swim in one suit or the other:  i took two wetsuit surveys this year, at the first USTS in phoenix, and at USTS oceanside.  at phoenix, TJ Fry, i think it was, wore an aquaman. every other male pro was in a QR, 25 in total.  oceanside was quite similar, but with twice as many pros.  so far as the pro women go, if they’re not swimming in QR they seem to be choosing Orca.  i haven’t made an issue of these actual & true numbers at all, and i’d like to keep the public discourse amiable.  but i’m happy to share these statistics in ads if that’s what you’d prefer.  so give it a rest with the… We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design.

in closing may i say that, notwithstanding the above, i sure as hell enjoy keith simmons’ style of business– in general– compared to that of his predecessor.  keith is a great guy, a worthy competitor, so much so that we’ve tried to get him to join forces with us.  also, keith’s suit, ironman, which is built in new zealand by some very nice guys, is a great suit, and i have no problem losing a sale to this company.  but it is, after all, simply a wetsuit, and like our own, will help you swim, but will not make you more attractive to the opposite sex, increase your IQ, or get rid of that touch of gray. qrman

Response:

By applying a thin coating of GU over your entire body before putting on the wetsuit, you can also build carbo reserves that can be drawn upon later in the race.

OK, I got the GU on all right.  Now, how do I get these damn ants out of my wetsuit? Tellus Venture Associates "Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win."  R.A.H.

Response:

John: Thanks for your post, and the delicate way that you asked the question. I will try to answer this question as briefly as possible. The University of Calagary has supplied us with 5 pages of technical data which proves that the "VO2 STEALTH SUIT" actually increases your Vo2 Output over conventional wetsuits. We will be adding these test results to our web page in the near future. The "VO2 STEALTH" was designed specifically to increase your power output during the swim. It is a simple known fact that every swimmer will swim faster with a wetsuit. (This is due to buoyancy & hydrodynamics) It is also a known fact that you will swim stronger without a wetsuit. This is because all wetsuits (except for the "VO2 STEALTH") are designed on a one dimisional symmetry between the athlete and the wetsuit. This design restricts breathing and reduces your VO2 Metabolic performance. Keep in mind that the buoyancy & hydrodynamic benefits of a wetsuit far out weigh any performance lost due to the lowered VO2 output. Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits has designed the "VO2 STEALTH" to outperform all other suits hydrodynamically, while also reducing the lowered VO2 metabolic performance that occurs while wearing other wetsuit designs. This was accomplished by designing the suit on a 3-dimisional symmetry between wetsuit and athlete. These additional chest panels increase comfort while enhancing your ability to consume oxygen. This was achieved without effecting the hydrodynamic benefits of the wetsuit itself. The "VO2 STEALTH" is the first and only wetsuit in world designed with these 3-dimensional chest panels. We have had almost every top professional triathlete in the world request a suit from us due to this unique feature and design. We outfitted our sponsored professionals early in the season and word spread quickly amongst the pros that the "VO2 STEALTH" suit gave significant advantages over any other wetsuit. (Ask Peter Reid, Lori Bowden, Wendy Ingrahmn, Tim Deboom, Michelle Jones, Nate Llerandi, Scott Tinley, and Paul Huddle to name a few) The anti-drafting feature is much easier to explain. We use a proprietary rubber on the back panel of all of our elite range wetsuits. This material breaks up water as it passes over the wetsuit. This greatly minimizes the slipstream effect providing improved hydrodynamics and reduces your rear wake. (We found this to work by accident.) The rubber was actually designed to increase the flexibility, and dissipate heat in warmer water temperatures. Please give me a call if you have any other technical questions. Best regards- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits.  I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

Response:

B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand….

Aerodynamics and hydrodynamics partly follow the same principles. It is true in both cases that if you improve your own aero/hydrodynamics, you may create a smaller wake and thus less opportunity for the person behind you to draft off you. So IF you wear something with a surface that reduces your own drag, it may also reduce the wake. Now I wouldn’t be able to tell you if the surface needs to be hydrophobic or not, I know I am and it doesn’t make me any faster in the water You doubt the effect of this at the low speeds of swimming, but then you would also have to doubt the effect of drafting in swimming to begin with. If you agree a considerable draft can be obtained in swimming, it will follow that a reduction of your own drag may decrease this draft. Remember that while the speeds of swimming are lower, the viscosity of water is somewhat higher than that of air. Gerard Vroomen, Cervelo Cycles website: http://www.cervelo.com P.S. Gotta go, rijsttafel is being served.

Response:

And you can also try "PowerBar Suppositories". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " Oh John — stop being such a discriminating reader.  The wetsuit holds a thin layer of air next to your skin which is absorbed directly into your bloodstream through endomosis transfer.  By applying a thin coating of GU over your entire body before putting on the wetsuit, you can also build carbo reserves that can be drawn upon later in the race. B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." I prefer to use the Nowavo Immersion(r) technique for reducing the possibility of drafting.  This technique requires that you do the entire swim leg underwater, face up, blowing copious amounts of air through your nose to tickly the bellies of the competitors you are swimming beneath. Caution:  Do not try this without the use of your endomosis wetsuit to continually replenish your oxygen supply.  Also, nose-plug swimmers have been known to explode when attempting Nowavo Immersion(r).

Response:

A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. "

Oh John — stop being such a discriminating reader.  The wetsuit holds a thin layer of air next to your skin which is absorbed directly into your bloodstream through endomosis transfer.  By applying a thin coating of GU over your entire body before putting on the wetsuit, you can also build carbo reserves that can be drawn upon later in the race. B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake."

I prefer to use the Nowavo Immersion(r) technique for reducing the possibility of drafting.  This technique requires that you do the entire swim leg underwater, face up, blowing copious amounts of air through your nose to tickly the bellies of the competitors you are swimming beneath. Caution:  Do not try this without the use of your endomosis wetsuit to continually replenish your oxygen supply.  Also, nose-plug swimmers have been known to explode when attempting Nowavo Immersion(r).

Response:

Not to knock anybody, but I followed a link on RST to Ironman Wetsuits.  I read some pretty amazing things there, including claims I don’t understand. To broaden my knowledge base, could somebody explain to me how a wetsuit: A.  "…combines with the metabolic advantages of increased oxygen consumption, and  increased power output. " B."…improved hydrodynamics plus an anti-drafting advantage by reducing your rear wake." Again I am not knocking these statements, just questioning them for my own education.  How can a wetsuit increase oxygen consumption?  At the low speeds even the best athletes swim at, can there be a noticeable reduction in drafting capabilities just by surface texture?  I don’t understand…. Thanks,  John

Response:

I’m also preliminarily looking at websuits, and found a lot of used ones for sale on Ebay (www.ebay.com) Just type ‘wetsuits’ in the search field and you should be off and running . . . or swimming. I found several suits, even a few fullsuits for under $100. worth a look, no?

Response:

I’m also preliminarily looking at websuits, and found a lot of used ones for sale on Ebay (www.ebay.com) Just type ‘wetsuits’ in the search field and you should be off and running . . . or swimming. I found several suits, even a few fullsuits for under $100.

Are you sure these were swimming wetsuits—not scuba or surfing suits? — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

<snip Are you sure these were swimming wetsuits—not scuba or surfing suits? — Tri-Baby

Actually, no . . . I’m not sure. I need some advice re: the difference between swimming & surfing, etc.

Response:

Actually, no . . . I’m not sure. I need some advice re: the difference between swimming & surfing, etc.

Uh, I mean wetsuits,  I mean, you know, between swimming and surfing wetsuits, . . . obviously . . . I mean, uh, I *do* know the difference between swimming and surfing . . . Ron "Damn I need a nap" Gilcreast

Response:

<snip Are you sure these were swimming wetsuits—not scuba or surfing suits? — Tri-Baby Actually, no . . . I’m not sure. I need some advice re: the difference between swimming & surfing, etc.

Okey doke, check this out: http://216.1.61.177/wetsuit_page.html — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Hey, I saw that site and was just wondering something… How did QR come up with the time of 25 minutes for 1500m to be the speed at which the Hydrophobic suits are actually beneficial?  Just curious. Kendall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Are you sure these were swimming wetsuits—not scuba or surfing suits? — Tri-Baby Actually, no . . . I’m not sure. I need some advice re: the difference between swimming & surfing, etc. Okey doke, check this out: http://216.1.61.177/wetsuit_page.html — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie

Response:

Hey, I saw that site and was just wondering something… How did QR come up with the time of 25 minutes for 1500m to be the speed at which the Hydrophobic suits are actually beneficial?  Just curious.

it comes from my arbitrary mind.  that is the very rough point, sez me, when you can say that you’re swimming ahead instead of side to side, up and down, back and forth, and so on.  it is an arbitrary number with a capital "a" (on the assumption that i used caps, which i purposely don’t, for reasons of personal philosophy, incomprehensible by most people, with the notable exception of kazez, who is really the only one who understands me). qrman

Response:

Tri-Specialties has a great deal on QR wetsuits.  Check out http://Tri-Specialties.com/Quintana%20Roo/qrwetsui.htm (or just Tri-Specialties.com) Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am attempting the Gulf Coast for the first time. I have been advised previously by others in this newsgroup that I should have a wetsuit (not for temp , but for sea conditions). Unfortunately, I don’t have a money tree growing in my yard. I have been scanning the net looking for wet suits. They have 2-3 basic types, Full, exposed arms, and the minimum looking kind. Will the inexpensive minimum looking kind achieve the results I’m looking for? Because the full suits appear to be $250+, where the el cheapo’s appear for about $125-$150. I don’t think that I will be racing much in cold water. I live in Louisiana. Can someone comment on their experiences with their wetsuit purchase? I would like to attempt to only buy one suit, and it be the right suit. Quickly running out of money, Jean-Paul Lanaux

Response:

J-P Try checking out http://www.rooworld.com/what_makes_a_wetsuit.html It has some interesting info for you. gordo — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Remove SPAM to e-mail me

Response:

Jean-Paul Lanaux says… I am attempting the Gulf Coast for the first time. I have been advised previously by others in this newsgroup that I should have a wetsuit (not for temp , but for sea conditions). Unfortunately, I don’t have a money tree growing in my yard. I have been scanning the net looking for wet suits. They have 2-3 basic types, Full, exposed arms, and the minimum looking kind.

Go for the sleaveless.  The extra neoprene in the legs will help your swimming. (Unless you already swim like a fish). I was in the same situation when I bought my wetsuit(no money).  I ended up buying the sleaveless because it was the only one they had that fitted me and I don’t regret having had to pay the extra money. It might seem a bit expensive now but when you consider that a good wetsuit will last a long time  if carefully looked after. (I’ve got surfing wetsuits that are 10 years old and are still great) AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm   <—- New web site      

Response:

Jean, I got a good suit from Promotion (www.wetsuit.com).  The suit was a closeout model (One of last years I believe.  Ask them because they have others).  I paid only $100.00 for the suit, which is a sleeveless type.  I hope this helps. Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – J-P Try checking out http://www.rooworld.com/what_makes_a_wetsuit.html It has some interesting info for you. gordo — Remove SPAM to e-mail me

Response:

I am attempting the Gulf Coast for the first time. I have been advised previously by others in this newsgroup that I should have a wetsuit (not for temp , but for sea conditions). Unfortunately, I don’t have a money tree growing in my yard. I have been scanning the net looking for wet suits. They have 2-3 basic types, Full, exposed arms, and the minimum looking kind. Will the inexpensive minimum looking kind achieve the results I’m looking for? Because the full suits appear to be $250+, where the el cheapo’s appear for about $125-$150. I don’t think that I will be racing much in cold water. I live in Louisiana. Can someone comment on their experiences with their wetsuit purchase? I would like to attempt to only buy one suit, and it be the right suit. Quickly running out of money, Jean-Paul Lanaux

Response:

I bought a long john (type with no sleeves) from a Performance Bike shop. Check their site (www.performancebike.com). I paid about $90. and have had it for a few years with no problems. It’s a little less than I need when in the cold ocean of Northern California, but would probably be great in warmer water. Good Luck, Harry

Response:

Question:

One more thing…. Is there a Cleveland area triathlon club that I haven’t heard of?  I’m from the west side of Cleveland, about 30 minutes from downtown. Also, does anyone know of a good, competitive tri club in Montreal, QUE?  I might be going to university there, and I’m looking for some fast people to train with. Thanks again, Matt

Response:

Tom, There aren’t any formal tri-clubs in Cleveland – however, most of the triathletes do get together for various workouts during the week and weekend. A large group trains at the OMNI fitness center which is located in Middleburg Hts. Their is another group of triathletes and roadies at bike at Second Sole running shop in Rocky River. Jim S.

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Question:

I live in South Florida and I would like to know when does season starts?  I would also like to know how to figure out aerobic and anaerobic heart rate? I am a new comer to the tri’s.                                                     P-nut

Response:

I live in South Florida and I would like to know when does season starts?  I would also like to know how to figure out aerobic and anaerobic heart rate? I am a new comer to the tri’s.

The Triathlon season starts earlier in the closer to the equator you are, and later in more polar climes. In Seattle, our first triathlons are in May, and the season ends about early October. There are several significant races outside this range in the southern US, but you will have to look at local schedules to figure out when and where.  If you are not sure where to start looking for information, check out Yahoo, there are many triathlon links. As to aerobic and anaerobic HR ranges, they are unique and changeable for everyone. I suggest that you get a HRM and do a max heart rate test, then apply the normal percentages to your results, that will get you ball parked, then with some experience, you will find out at what point you go anaerobic. Rob — Rob Blomquist aka TriDog Seattle, WA http://www.accessone.com/~robb To send me email, remove the nomorespam from my domain name.

Response:

As best as I can tell, the first tri race this year will be the Spring Sprint Triathlon at the Boca Chica Fitness Center in Key West. The Race Director’s number is 305-293-2683 for more info. The race will take place on March 7th at 7:30 a.m. and is a .5S/20B/3.1R. After that, the Winona Classic Triathlon in Deleon Springs on March 29th. For more info on that race, call John Boyle at 904-736-0002. This race is .25S/15.5B/3.1R. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in South Florida and I would like to know when does season starts? I would also like to know how to figure out aerobic and anaerobic heart rate? I am a new comer to the tri’s.                                                    P-nut

Response:

Question:

The December issue of Triathlete lists Trek as being tied for first with Kestrel for the "most commonly used bike."  I am wondering what model predominates this group?

Response:

Certainly not my 2200 (Trek). — Steve Noone ‘Everybody has to believe in something.  I believe I’ll have a beer.’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The December issue of Triathlete lists Trek as being tied for first with Kestrel for the "most commonly used bike."  I am wondering what model predominates this group?

Response:

Probably the 5xxx OCLV frames. They are very light (as light as a Felt), very stiff, and a very good value. They also have a long top tube, which makes a forward seatpost compromise a little easier to work with. Another poster said "Surely not my 2xxx." I disagree. These bikes are very good bikes for the money, and many racers use them. I see them lots under my club buddies. The December issue of Triathlete lists Trek as being tied for first with Kestrel for the "most commonly used bike."  I am wondering what model predominates this group?

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

Response:

The December issue of Triathlete lists Trek as being tied for first with Kestrel for the "most commonly used bike."  I am wondering what model predominates this group?

i did some of the counting for the survey, and while i didn’t specifically take notice of which models, there were an awful lot of OCLV’s. qrman

Response:

Question:

What I can not understand is that you are happy with a professional sport that generates no money. But then of course you can be happy with a lot of things that generate no money, like a p.r, or a hamster.

Why can’t you understand this?  Why should we care about $$$? Now your second argument:

      The sport of triathlon is a test of individual strength and   should be contested as such. I am sorry but that truth goes for practically every other discipline. as such this is an obsolete view.

I beg your pardon, but, according to WHOM?  Is it obsolete JUST BECAUSE THE ITU (and misguided souls like yourself) SAYS IT IS?  I thought that something became "obsolete" when a majority of folks no longer used or adhered to it.  Funny, every opinion poll I’ve heard of on this topic has shown the vast majority of triathletes to be in agreement with this view. I guess we must be wrong, though, because you say so. I’m sorry, Ivar, but you have yet to put together a cohesive, intelligent argument to support your insistence that drafting and the ITU are "right" and the rest of us are "wrong".  Are you sure you’re not a plant, one of Uncle Less’ henchmen? TriBaby                                 – o                      - o                                  -  /_                 – /_         `            ,        -  /-           – __/          ` /o__      -  (())    (())      -           /      

Response:

(Ivar Brinkman) is not neccessarily that of the management. Rick Margiotta, USA Triathlon President

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    But, since you want to turn this into an American thing, may I tell you     about a lesson our government has learned?  You don’t go to war without     your constituency you serve squarely behind you.   If you do, you’ll find     yourself out on the limb with no support, and a lot of animosity levelled     at you.  I think the ITU is about to learn that lesson. Waaal… this has been a little like Deja Vu to me.  Ever since the ITU has endeavoured to project the "drafting is good" notion, there’s been something niggling at me, and the above has shed a little light. Go back 5 years.  There was a lot of wool being pulled to "manufacture consent" (not my words, and no prizes for guessing) against a BIG BAD MEANIE.  Many lines were used, until the "right one" was found.  Those in the know (and there weren’t that many) knew the real reasons why things were.. It now appears the ITU is trying similar tactics – "manufacturing consent" through the media.  The majority of the audience is not really that knowledgeable about the real sentiment.  I got this impression when the Tri Grand Prix started off in Oz two seasons back, the way the commentators would "declare facts", ie, this is the way Triathlon WILL be run, and most/all triathletes are for it.  The experts were instant, but buffoons being spoon fed their lines. One problem.  The so called BIG BAD MEANIE (us) is global, cannot and will not be bullied, nor will the ITU find it so easy to isolate us in the same way a certain country was 5 years back.  Sure, they are using similar tactics  - media, strong arm, and "enticements" to minor players (countries) to make up the numbers, but they won’t succeed.  Why?  because those knowledgeable cannot and will not be gagged. What makes this almost comical is that the shoe is now on the other foot – we are the ones being cast as the BIG BAD MEANIE, being isolated and being "rough housed".  For what?  As far as I can tell, big business (or "properties" – a quaint term I’ve just learned).  So what’s new? Yup, the New World Order lesson will not go away. No aspersions being cast – just nasturtiums. Woof!

Response:

We’re your brothers, your sisters, your mothers and fathers. Your neighbors, your friends, your bosses, your secretaries. Planted like seeds around the ITU globe, our sole mission is to split opinion, divide the masses, and ensure that ITU policy prevail.

Some oratory!  Sounds like a preamble to the New World Order. If anyone had any doubt about the essential nature of itu, your "masses" and "mission" and "seeds" and "globe" and "prevail" will take care of it. Ruth Kazez

Response:

Actually, we’re all missing a great opportunity to split the sport into several federations.  This has helped boxing.  Do we have a Don King in the ranks?

Hum… Isn’t the idea behind the ITU’s totalitarian approach to "triahtlon" that the IOC wants to deal with ONE governing body which regulates the sport? If so, what the heck is boxing doing in the olympics with its three (could be wrong here) federations? CharlesV

Response:

You know what they say…."Be careful what you wish for"..! Kurian Davis

Response:

Dear Tri-dork, Jeffrey, Mike,Dan Thank you for your elucidating comments to my earlier post. let me sum then up as follows: It does not matter to the sport as such that  you do not agree to the rules. This because of the fact that you do not make the rules. Well! We DO make the rules! indirectly. We elect officials to our National bodies and they in turn elect reps to ITU (or something like that)

It’s exactly like that, in fact. Once the ITU has juristiction to create rules they have discarded the input of the individuals at the grassroot level and have also thrown out the democratic process that put them in their position in the first place.

Y’all misunderstand me, but I agree with you nevertheless. You have empowered the ITU to do these things, by electing them.Just as you do with a factual government .But is this really a normative question , i.e is it good or bad?? I think not. Ask yourself:  when you voted for Bill , did your vote contain a policy? Then ask yourself, but would i do it again? Another example: Recently, in Ontario Canada, the government brought in Photo Radar traps for cars.This was so umpopular that the government had t remove them. They are no longer in use. The people and what they believe in and will tolerate of their goverments (ITU included in this motley bunch) is very important. No governing boky can operate for long without the support of the people they represent.

I agree again. But what does this have to do with their beliefs? Maybe they believed radar was detrimentalto their health! What I mean is, it is good that you believe in something but it all depends what means you have to effectuate this opposition. If yours is indeed only resorting to this newsgroup as forum of critical mass, then I am not expecting very much. (…) I agree, that was an exagerrated picture i sketched. I really do love America. Even though there a too many famous old triathletes living there.  But at least it made you think about the current state of the sport. What I can not understand is that you are happy with a professional sport that generates no money. But then of course you can be happy with a lot of things that generate no money, like a p.r, or a hamster. Now your second argument: The sport of triathlon is a test of individual strength and should be contested as such.

I am sorry but that truth goes for practically every other discipline. as such this is an obsolete view. This alternative federation  is becoming a real possibility!

I have seen no proof of this possibility whatsoever.Are you aiming at WTC? They’re a bunch of sharks. Alternative Tri-fed? Are you regulations deposited yet? Or are you going to bring in Don King ? the federations need the ITU Yeah, like hell needs lighter fluid.

You are not thinking of the greater good, without the ITU there would be no body to negotiate with the IOC. Those lords of the rings do not come cheap.   But the ITU does not care for individual needs. Finally we agree on something. The Itu doesn’t care for the individual (They would be wise to heed the wishes of the collection of individuals)

We are agreed indeed : that is why it is run by a Union man. They know how to manipulate the individual for his own good. Because Fun is not what triathlon in the greater sense is about. Like boxing: there may be people who that believe sports are fun, boxing is a noble art and Mike Tyson is a furry animal , but they seldom have ruling authority.   (BTW I do believe in putting  King Don on the ITU board and am contemplating a support group to this effect) IB

Response:

It does not matter to the sport as such that  you do not agree to the rules. This because of the fact that you do not make the rules.You are rule followers and be it that you have a critical attitude, that does not really matter.The sport of triathlon does not really have any thing to do with this attitude. As long as you follow the rules, just as you do with ordinary traffic.

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It is therefore best to take a pragmatic stand towards what the ITU has been doing: namely increasing the scale of the sport on a global scale, sucessfully resulting in establishing a worldwide circuit. This circuit is aimed at the marketing of the sport towards the general audience, non specific sponsors and achieving the Olympic status.No mean feat and it is for this reason that a change of rules has been effected. Because, quite simply, we are selling a product here and a broader base means a bigger pie- that is more traithlon for everyone. Ultimately therefore this is a discussion about content and not form. snip To me, the future of the sport  is clear. The sport is now one among many Olympic. It needs to be distinctive. Differentaiting attitudes are fine but ultimately they will follow the actual circumstances surrounding the rules, like in actual law, these will be determined by the context: time, place and occassion. Likewise the rules can vary with individual occurances. This means more flexibility and new forms of competition. Why not try to develop this into practice before denouncing this, but  not  by not mocking the ITU or raising the republican flag of citizens rule.

Where do these guys come from? — JJ Jeffrey Justice Oceanside, CA

Response:

lots o’ fun snippety snip Where do these guys come from? — JJ

JJ,   This is obviously what happens when the cord gets wrapped around ones neck for too long during birthing. The lack of Oxygen produces brain damage leading to membership in the ITU executive. The condition is terminal. TriDork

Response:

Actually, we’re all missing a great opportunity to split the sport into several federations.  This has helped boxing.  Do we have a Don King in the ranks?

Response:

What I would like to add to this and to all the grassroots protesters against the modernizationof traithlon is this: snip… As far as the hard core believers in the purity of the sport are concerned, especially the US branch: where has this led you,  let us say over the last 10 years ?

*It* does not lead *me*. I, instead, participate in a lifestyle that includes periodic challenges that I enjoy with like-minded people.  I don’t need you, I don’t need the ITU, and I won’t partake in your idea of my sport. No growth, no top triathletes under 35 , no olympic distance hopefuls, little or no perspective of  nation wide circuits of professional interest and 1 Ironman race with a lottery attached. Not a pretty picture.

And, while you’re at it, throw in "No idea what I’m talking about." I know the US has won the 30-34 male title each of the past two years at worlds (going 1-2 in Cancun), and the years 1993, 94, & 95 saw the U.S. provide the overall age group champion (Bill McLaughlin, age 28, in ‘93; Tim DeBoom, age 23-24, in ‘94 & ‘95). And, while we’re at it, the "1 Ironman race" of which you speak has to beat away throngs of non-U.S. hopeful entrants every single year.  It’s a plenty pretty picture for the non-ITU majority of the triathlon world, and the *only* true world championship in our sport. The picture I find exceedingly ugly — not to mention boring — is the 30 minute techno-hop we get to watch on TV that includes glimpses of the swims, pack riding excitement, and ultimately someone running all by themself.  Wow, sign me up. Go back to your sport, sir.  I think you want "alt.sport.ituathlon". -Mike Llerandi

Response:

It does not matter to the sport as such that  you do not agree to the rules. This because of the fact that you do not make the rules.You are rule followers and be it that you have a critical attitude, that does not really matter.The sport of triathlon does not really have any thing to do with this attitude. As long as you follow the rules, just as you do with ordinary traffic.

Ivar’s attitude is interesting, and I think it reflects in many ways some cultural differences.  Don’t misunderstand me; I am not bashing Europe or The Netherlands.  Rather, I think that many Europeans and Dutch often are willing to succumb to authority without questioning their authority.  We are the sport, and as such we do make the rules.  Granted, we do so through elected representatives, but they are ultimately responsible to us, and not each other. As far as the hard core believers in the purity of the sport are concerned, especially the US branch: where has this led you,  let us say over the last 10 years ? No growth, no top triathletes under 35 , no olympic distance hopefuls, little or no perspective of  nation wide circuits of professional interest and 1 Ironman race with a lottery attached. Not a pretty picture.

Not alot to add to what others have said here, however keep in mind that 99% of the triathletes in the US are not professionals.  Most are more interested in decent races for themselves, and not whether or not there is a made-for-TV national series for professionals.  As for the Ironman, I guess we can dump all of the non-US entrants and open up more spots for us poor Americans.  By the way, there are other quality "Ironman-Distance" races in the US.   It is therefore best to take a pragmatic stand towards what the ITU has been doing: namely increasing the scale of the sport on a global scale, sucessfully resulting in establishing a worldwide circuit. This circuit is aimed at the marketing of the sport towards the general audience, non specific sponsors and achieving the Olympic status.No mean feat and it is for this reason that a change of rules has been effected. Because, quite simply, we are selling a product here and a broader base means a bigger pie- that is more traithlon for everyone. Ultimately therefore this is a discussion about content and not form.

Won’t happen.  These new "rule changes" will not increase interest in the sport.  I’ve talked to several non-triathletes that have watched these so-called races with drafting, and all have said that they were stupid and boring.  Simply put, they felt that the product was not better.  The consensus was that triathlons make for boring television, and draft-legal triathlons even more so. This is hard to swallow for some purists, who do not agree to this for many reasons. But the question is what arguments can they actually effectuate.The only way it could become undone is for the citizens of triathlon not to accept it and establish a new rule system. In all honesty this is an unrealistic  perspective. Individuals need federations,the federations need the ITU, the ITU needs the federations. But the ITU does not care for individual needs. so basically, the opponents are barking up the wrong tree here.

The ITU better start caring about the desires of triathletes, or they will not be in business much longer. To me, the future of the sport  is clear. The sport is now one among many Olympic. It needs to be distinctive. Differentaiting attitudes are fine but ultimately they will follow the actual circumstances surrounding the rules, like in actual law, these will be determined by the context: time, place and occassion. Likewise the rules can vary with individual occurances. This means more flexibility and new forms of competition. Why not try to develop this into practice before denouncing this, but  not  by not mocking the ITU or raising the republican flag of citizens rule.

Huh?  The "republican flag of citizens rule"?  So do we bow and pray to the ITU gods and simply follow whatever rules they decide to implement?  The ITU is supposedly an elected body representing the athletes, and thus we have every right to insist that they follow the wishes of the vast majority of triathletes.  Thank god most triathletes have the guts to challenge the ITU, rather than rolling over and playing dead. Marty

Response:

It does not matter to the sport as such that  you do not agree to the rules. This because of the fact that you do not make the rules.You are rule followers and be it that you have a critical attitude, that does not really matter.The sport of triathlon does not really have any thing to do with this attitude. As long as you follow the rules, just as you do with ordinary traffic.

Ultimately, I make the rules that govern traffic.  Through a not so long line of command, the public servants do precisely what I and others just like me together tell them to do.  "Rule followers" as you have described occupy the most wretched place in history.  We will continue to have a critical attitude because blind obeisance has no place even in such a small and quite unimportant matter as sport. Ruth Kazez

Response:

writes:

stuff deleted What I would like to add to this and to all the grassroots protesters against the modernizationof traithlon is this: It does not matter to the sport as such that  you do not agree to the rules. This because of the fact that you do not make the rules.

Well! We DO make the rules! indirectly. We elect officials to our National bodies and they in turn elect reps to ITU (or something like that) Once the ITU has juristiction to create rules they have discarded the input of the individuals at the grassroot level and have also thrown out the democratic process that put them in their position in the first place. You are rule followers and be it that you have a critical attitude, that does not really matter.

In the overall picture, what we think (and do with our racing dollars) does matter. No-one can please everyone, but this attitude the ITU has, that they can decide the future of our sport with a free hand is unrealistic, unfair and undemocratic. They are standing on very shaky ground. The sport of triathlon does not really have any thing to do with this attitude. As long as you follow the rules, just as you do with ordinary traffic.

Recently, in Ontario Canada, the government brought in Photo Radar traps for cars.This was so umpopular that the government had t remove them. They are no longer in use. The people and what they believe in and will tolerate of their goverments (ITU included in this motley bunch) is very important. No governing boky can operate for long without the support of the people they represent. As far as the hard core believers in the purity of the sport are concerned, especially the US branch: where has this led you,  let us say over the last 10 years ? No growth, no top triathletes under 35 , no olympic distance hopefuls, little or no perspective of  nation wide circuits of professional interest and 1 Ironman race with a lottery attached. Not a pretty picture.

I believe you are insulting the intelligence of the readers of this letter. Every year there are more competitors at nearly all races I do. Where do you get you information from? From a sport that virtually didn’t exist 15 years ago to the present state of triathlon shows enormous growth. Did you really expect that by making such ridiculous statements that people would blindly believe you? It is therefore best to take a pragmatic stand towards what the ITU has been doing: namely increasing the scale of the sport on a global scale, sucessfully resulting in establishing a worldwide circuit.

Ther have been worldwide circuits before and still are. Tehr will continue to be worldwide race series long after the ITU dies.  This circuit is aimed at the marketing of the sport towards the general audience, non specific sponsors and achieving the Olympic status.

The sport of triathlon is a test of individual strength and should be contested as such. The ITU’s pro drafting idea fundamentally ignores this fact. The undemocratic heavy handed approach the ITU has taken is highly detrimental to the sport. No mean feat and it is for this reason that a change of rules has been effected. Because, quite simply, we are selling a product here and a broader base means a bigger pie- that is more traithlon for everyone. Ultimately therefore this is a discussion about content and not form. This is hard to swallow for some purists, who do not agree to this for many reasons. But the question is what arguments can they actually effectuate.The only way it could become undone is for the citizens of triathlon not to accept it and establish a new rule system.

This is becoming a real possibility!  In all honesty this is an unrealistic  perspective. Individuals need federations,

Not really, but it does make things easier. the federations need the ITU Yeah, like hell needs lighter fluid. , the ITU needs the federations. But the ITU does not care for individual needs.

Finally we agree on something. The Itu doesn’t care for the individual (They would be wise to heed the wishes of the collection of individuals)  so basically, the opponents are barking up the wrong tree here.

Your arguement is so flawed, confused and erratic, that I hardly know where to start. (maybe that’s your point, but I’m probably giving you too much credit) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To me, the future of the sport  is clear. The sport is now one among many Olympic. It needs to be distinctive. Differentaiting attitudes are fine but ultimately they will follow the actual circumstances surrounding the rules, like in actual law, these will be determined by the context: time, place and occassion. Likewise the rules can vary with individual occurances. This means more flexibility and new forms of competition. Why not try to develop this into practice before denouncing this, but  not  by not mocking the ITU or raising the republican flag of citizens rule. Could this be another reason why the ITU is going for smaller venues

They just might bbe going to smaller venues becasue less people are entering their races and to control the "gate" so to speak. (ie, multi lap bike/run courses).  This way, even for watching the bike leg, one has to enter a sealed off area, the privilege shedding a little weight from your wallet… Thought a Jest .. Paul    "Inspired is thinking you know everything..    Manic is knowing it."                                – Running the Asylum

The connection between the ITU and the Asylum is fitting! TriDork

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writes:    Anyway, I bet that the triathlon will be very popular in Sidney.      There is likely to be a lot of local interest, since there are    several great Australian triathletes who could win medals.    I read that the triathlon was the most popular even in the Pan Am    games in South America, because it was free to watch. Steven may have hit the head on the nail.

Definitely. aTriathlon will be massive. It is the opening number(fems!). What I would like to add to this and to all the grassroots protesters against the modernizationof traithlon is this: It does not matter to the sport as such that  you do not agree to the rules. This because of the fact that you do not make the rules.You are rule followers and be it that you have a critical attitude, that does not really matter.The sport of triathlon does not really have any thing to do with this attitude. As long as you follow the rules, just as you do with ordinary traffic. As far as the hard core believers in the purity of the sport are concerned, especially the US branch: where has this led you,  let us say over the last 10 years ? No growth, no top triathletes under 35 , no olympic distance hopefuls, little or no perspective of  nation wide circuits of professional interest and 1 Ironman race with a lottery attached. Not a pretty picture.  It is therefore best to take a pragmatic stand towards what the ITU has been doing: namely increasing the scale of the sport on a global scale, sucessfully resulting in establishing a worldwide circuit. This circuit is aimed at the marketing of the sport towards the general audience, non specific sponsors and achieving the Olympic status.No mean feat and it is for this reason that a change of rules has been effected. Because, quite simply, we are selling a product here and a broader base means a bigger pie- that is more traithlon for everyone. Ultimately therefore this is a discussion about content and not form. This is hard to swallow for some purists, who do not agree to this for many reasons. But the question is what arguments can they actually effectuate.The only way it could become undone is for the citizens of triathlon not to accept it and establish a new rule system. In all honesty this is an unrealistic  perspective. Individuals need federations,the federations need the ITU, the ITU needs the federations. But the ITU does not care for individual needs. so basically, the opponents are barking up the wrong tree here. To me, the future of the sport  is clear. The sport is now one among many Olympic. It needs to be distinctive. Differentaiting attitudes are fine but ultimately they will follow the actual circumstances surrounding the rules, like in actual law, these will be determined by the context: time, place and occassion. Likewise the rules can vary with individual occurances. This means more flexibility and new forms of competition. Why not try to develop this into practice before denouncing this, but  not  by not mocking the ITU or raising the republican flag of citizens rule. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Could this be another reason why the ITU is going for smaller venues (ie, multi lap bike/run courses).  This way, even for watching the bike leg, one has to enter a sealed off area, the privilege shedding a little weight from your wallet… Thought a Jest .. Paul    "Inspired is thinking you know everything..    Manic is knowing it."                            – Running the Asylum

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    Anyway, I bet that the triathlon will be very popular in Sidney.       There is likely to be a lot of local interest, since there are     several great Australian triathletes who could win medals.     I read that the triathlon was the most popular even in the Pan Am     games in South America, because it was free to watch. Steven may have hit the head on the nail … Could this be another reason why the ITU is going for smaller venues (ie, multi lap bike/run courses).  This way, even for watching the bike leg, one has to enter a sealed off area, the privilege shedding a little weight from your wallet… Thought a Jest .. Paul     "Inspired is thinking you know everything..     Manic is knowing it."                                 — Running the Asylum

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 I was wondering whether the triathlon in the 2000 Olympics in Sydney,  Australia can be watched by spectators for free on the city streets.  

…snippage…   a lot of people [in Atlanta] are angry to find out that  they cannot afford tickets to the desireable

 events.  Many events cost over $100 per ticket ..snippage… Interesting point.  I assume that triahlon, taking place in the streets (and lakes) would be accessable to the public, along with marathon, race walking, and maybe one or two others. This may open an unofficial category of "peoples sports".  I wonder if we can achieve any political or publicity benefits from this aspect?   I’m sure that the gang in "The Peoples Republic of itu" would have no problem with it. |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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TRIDORK <==What he said! So There! Mol <==Likes to Gopher broke!

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<drivel You seem to want to turn this anti-ITU, anti-drafting thing into an American phenomenon.  The triathlon world is united in its abhorance of both drafting and the ITU, and by world I mean the world over. Second, the fact that the US, or any country, happens to be at a low point in its ability to field the best pro athletes means nothing.  For the record, Americans haven’t been the best short course athletes since the mid ’80’s, but our women still kick butt. Our men seem to do better in long course (they don’t just win the Hawaiian Ironman, there is considerable depth there, this year being a prime example).   But let’s say you go to a country like Germany, where the athletes are at a high level, you still find them all (over 90 percent) against the ITU and drafting. But, since you want to turn this into an American thing, may I tell you about a lesson our government has learned?  You don’t go to war without your constituency you serve squarely behind you.   If you do, you’ll find yourself out on the limb with no support, and a lot of animosity levelled at you.  I think the ITU is about to learn that lesson. QRman

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I was wondering whether the triathlon in the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, Australia can be watched by spectators for free on the city streets.   If so, then I think it would be likely to get several hundred thousand spectators; possibly more than any other event in the Olympics…due to being *free*. People here in Atlanta were elated when the city was chosen to host the 1996 Olympics, but a lot of people are angry to find out that they cannot afford tickets to the desireable events.  Many events cost over $100 per ticket, which is not affordable to a middle class family that wants to bring their kids.  And it is hard to get tickets, even if you have the money.  So there is a lot of interest in seeing events for free.  The only events I know of that you can see for free on the city streets are the marathon and the bicycle time trials.  Maybe race walking. Anyway, I bet that the triathlon will be very popular in Sidney.   There is likely to be a lot of local interest, since there are several great Australian triathletes who could win medals. I read that the triathlon was the most popular even in the Pan Am games in South America, because it was free to watch.

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