Question:

Voted by feet, the following is a ranking of the most popular marathons worldwide in the year 2001 (may not complete): 30072   London, United Kingdom 28390   Chicago, USA 25678   Berlin, Germany 23648   New York, USA 22341   Paris, France 19187   Honolulu, USA 15948   Los Angeles, USA 14932   San Diego R’n'R, USA 14844   Hamburg, Germany 14241   Washington DC Marine Corps, USA 13395   Boston, USA 13034   Cologne, Germany 10735   Naha, Japan (17124 starters incl. shorter distance) 10123   Stockholm, Sweden 9771?   Arakawa Citizen, Tokyo, Japan (2000) 9180    Vienna, Austria 9000?   Rotterdam, Netherlands (10050 starters) 8823    Frankfurt, Germany 8012    Orlando World Disney, USA 7837?   Ibusuki Nanohana, Japan 7383?   Fukuchiyama, Kyoto, Japan 7333    Portland, USA 7000?   Medoc, France (8000 starters) 6808    Madrid, Spain 6699    Duluth Grandma’s, Minnesota, USA 6356    Twin Cities, USA 6152    Dublin, Ireland 6003    Rome, Italy 5877    Okinawa, Japan 5855?   Tsukuba, Japan (starters) 5306    Lake Kawaguchi, Japan 5140    Munich, Germany 5124    Venice, Italy (2000) 4902    Nashville Country Music, USA 4829    Baltimore, USA 4765    Copenhagen, Danmark 4698    Milano, Italy 4690    Baie du Mont Saint-Michel, France 4612    Helsinki, Finnland 4528    Katsuta Zenkoku, Japan 4523    Nagano, Japan (starters) 4382    La Rochelle, France 4190    Austin Motorola, USA 4121    Cincinatti Flying Pig, USA 4044    St. George, USA 4015    Houston, USA 3889    Philadelphia, USA 3801    Aoshima Pacific Ocean, Japan 3405    Vancouver, Canada 3217    Jungfrau, Switzerland 3151    Dallas White Rock, USA 3061    Columbus, USA 3017    Bonn, Germany 2954    Barcelona, Spain 2906    Monaco (next to France) 2861    Mainz, Germany 2753    Royal Victoria, Canada 2727    Sacramento Calif. Int., USA 2643    Florence, Italy 2641    Prague, Czech Republic 2618    Mayor’s Midnight Sun, Anchorage, USA 2560    Big Sur, USA 2449    Detroit, USA 2438    Las Vegas, USA 2322    Pittsburgh, USA 2249    San Francisco Chronicle, USA 2135    Maui, USA 2095    Budapest, Hungary 2022    Lausanne, Switzerland 2017    Vermont City, USA Data sources: North-american marathon data is from the Marathonguide (http://www.marathonguide.com/). The data for the Japanes courses is from the Japanese Marathon Guide (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Crete/7686/eng/). Unfortunately some data may include participants from other distances. These races are marked with a ?. Data from other races is from the result lists of the homepages of the courses. I omitted races like the Engadine Skimarathon (11235    St. Moritz, Switzerland) which is on the standard marathon distance but on cross country skies or        like the Comrades Ultra, South Africa with 11076 finishers which call themselves marathon but are ultras (other is Two Oceans Ultra in South Africa ). For  Lyon, Lisbon or Valencia I could not find any data.  For Italian races there is more data on http://www.winningtime.com but I always received messages like "cannot read data" or "virus detected" etc.

Response:

Gary, thanks for the interesting list. I wonder how the sources you quoted get their finisher numbers….for example, the Marine Corps number on my finisher certificate says there were 14340, about a hundred off from the number in this list. Not quibbling with the numbers as I’m sure they are pretty close and it certainly helps to see which races have the giant fields. thanks again. chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Voted by feet, the following is a ranking of the most popular marathons worldwide in the year 2001 (may not complete): 30072   London, United Kingdom 28390   Chicago, USA 25678   Berlin, Germany 23648   New York, USA 22341   Paris, France 19187   Honolulu, USA 15948   Los Angeles, USA 14932   San Diego R’n'R, USA 14844   Hamburg, Germany 14241   Washington DC Marine Corps, USA

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4015 Houston, USA

Hey, I lived in Houston in 2001.  I didn’t realize they had that many people in the marathon.   That’s not too bad.

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Very interesting. I was impressed by how many ‘big’ thons are run in Germany and not surprised to see London was the only UK thon in the list. I think there really should be a ‘runners’ thon in the UK that requires qualification times (not that I’m likely to get in I hasten to add) and is well promoted, run on a big city course and has decent prize money, championships, whatever to capture some public imagination and coverage. I’d go along to cheer and watch charlie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Voted by feet, the following is a ranking of the most popular marathons worldwide in the year 2001 (may not complete): 30072 London, United Kingdom 28390 Chicago, USA 25678 Berlin, Germany 23648 New York, USA 22341 Paris, France 19187 Honolulu, USA 15948 Los Angeles, USA 14932 San Diego R’n'R, USA 14844 Hamburg, Germany 14241 Washington DC Marine Corps, USA 13395 Boston, USA 13034 Cologne, Germany 10735 Naha, Japan (17124 starters incl. shorter distance) 10123 Stockholm, Sweden 9771? Arakawa Citizen, Tokyo, Japan (2000) 9180 Vienna, Austria 9000? Rotterdam, Netherlands (10050 starters) 8823 Frankfurt, Germany 8012 Orlando World Disney, USA 7837? Ibusuki Nanohana, Japan 7383? Fukuchiyama, Kyoto, Japan 7333 Portland, USA 7000? Medoc, France (8000 starters) 6808 Madrid, Spain 6699 Duluth Grandma’s, Minnesota, USA 6356 Twin Cities, USA 6152 Dublin, Ireland 6003 Rome, Italy 5877 Okinawa, Japan 5855? Tsukuba, Japan (starters) 5306 Lake Kawaguchi, Japan 5140 Munich, Germany 5124 Venice, Italy (2000) 4902 Nashville Country Music, USA 4829 Baltimore, USA 4765 Copenhagen, Danmark 4698 Milano, Italy 4690 Baie du Mont Saint-Michel, France 4612 Helsinki, Finnland 4528 Katsuta Zenkoku, Japan 4523 Nagano, Japan (starters) 4382 La Rochelle, France 4190 Austin Motorola, USA 4121 Cincinatti Flying Pig, USA 4044 St. George, USA 4015 Houston, USA 3889 Philadelphia, USA 3801 Aoshima Pacific Ocean, Japan 3405 Vancouver, Canada 3217 Jungfrau, Switzerland 3151 Dallas White Rock, USA 3061 Columbus, USA 3017 Bonn, Germany 2954 Barcelona, Spain 2906 Monaco (next to France) 2861 Mainz, Germany 2753 Royal Victoria, Canada 2727 Sacramento Calif. Int., USA 2643 Florence, Italy 2641 Prague, Czech Republic 2618 Mayor’s Midnight Sun, Anchorage, USA 2560 Big Sur, USA 2449 Detroit, USA 2438 Las Vegas, USA 2322 Pittsburgh, USA 2249 San Francisco Chronicle, USA 2135 Maui, USA 2095 Budapest, Hungary 2022 Lausanne, Switzerland 2017 Vermont City, USA Data sources: North-american marathon data is from the Marathonguide (http://www.marathonguide.com/). The data for the Japanes courses is from the Japanese Marathon Guide (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete-Crete/7686/eng/). Unfortunately some data may include participants from other distances. These races are marked with a ?. Data from other races is from the result lists of the homepages of the courses. I omitted races like the Engadine Skimarathon (11235 St. Moritz, Switzerland) which is on the standard marathon distance but on cross country skies or like the Comrades Ultra, South Africa with 11076 finishers which call themselves marathon but are ultras (other is Two Oceans Ultra in South Africa ). For  Lyon, Lisbon or Valencia I could not find any data.  For Italian races there is more data on http://www.winningtime.com but I always received messages like "cannot read data" or "virus detected" etc.

Response:

Voted by feet, the following is a ranking of the most popular marathons worldwide in the year 2001 (may not complete):

Is this starters, registrants, or finishers?   Some marathons like NYC have few non finishers while others like Los Angeles have a lot nonfinishers.

Response:

Very interesting. I was impressed by how many ‘big’ thons are run in Germany and not surprised to see London was the only UK thon in the list.

Oh, I would expected a second or third marathon in this list  from UK. The second largest UK marathon in 1999  Edinburgh had about 5000 participants. Therefore I checked the UK marathons once again. That’s what I found: (data: finishers in 2001) Manchester 1085 Potteries 950 Snowdonia 774 Blackpool 576 Nottingham around 500 Sheffield 345 Leeds 339 main data source: http://www.race-results.co.uk/results/2001/

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Are you sure Edinburgh ‘99 had 5000 in a full ‘thon? A lot of UK ‘thon’s have a 1/2 as well and entrants may be lumped together for both. It’s apparently incredibly expensive to close roads/have a police marshal presence so many UK ‘thons have a 4 or 4:30 cut-off which is pretty daunting to first-timers. I’ve checked carefully that my first ‘thon (Stratford 21/4), although having a 2:15 max time to complete the half (If I miss that, something’s badly wrong) will allow me to stay out past 5 hours if needed. All goes to plan and I’ll be home by 4:30 (4 is the dream goal) but if it doesn’t I may still want to struggle to the finish. It’s for that reason I won’t do Sheffield even though it’s a bigger event and I have friends there. Can you imagine being a mile from the finish at 4:30 and being asked to leave the course as the ’sweeper vehicle’ had caught you’!! All that being said, if we had a ‘qualifiers ‘thon’ for the faster runners then a 4:30 cut-off wouldn’t be a problem anyway. I think it would be great for the UK to have a ‘Boston’ billed as an event for good/fast/quality/whatever runners to take part in and something for the rest of us to aim at. charlie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very interesting. I was impressed by how many ‘big’ thons are run in Germany and not surprised to see London was the only UK thon in the list. Oh, I would expected a second or third marathon in this list  from UK. The second largest UK marathon in 1999  Edinburgh had about 5000 participants. Therefore I checked the UK marathons once again. That’s what I found: (data: finishers in 2001) Manchester 1085 Potteries 950 Snowdonia 774 Blackpool 576 Nottingham around 500 Sheffield 345 Leeds 339 main data source: http://www.race-results.co.uk/results/2001/

Response:

Charlie, Good luck for Stratford; I’m, going to run the half I think (have done last two years). It’s a tough course: rather undulating and often on a hot day. The full marathon is a two-lap course, as you say, so you see both sets of mile markers on the way out. All the best, Oliver.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you sure Edinburgh ‘99 had 5000 in a full ‘thon? A lot of UK ‘thon’s have a 1/2 as well and entrants may be lumped together for both. It’s apparently incredibly expensive to close roads/have a police marshal presence so many UK ‘thons have a 4 or 4:30 cut-off which is pretty daunting to first-timers. I’ve checked carefully that my first ‘thon (Stratford 21/4), although having a 2:15 max time to complete the half (If I miss that, something’s badly wrong) will allow me to stay out past 5 hours if needed. All goes to plan and I’ll be home by 4:30 (4 is the dream goal) but if it doesn’t I may still want to struggle to the finish. It’s for that reason I won’t do Sheffield even though it’s a bigger event and I have friends there. Can you imagine being a mile from the finish at 4:30 and being asked to leave the course as the ’sweeper vehicle’ had caught you’!! All that being said, if we had a ‘qualifiers ‘thon’ for the faster runners then a 4:30 cut-off wouldn’t be a problem anyway. I think it would be great for the UK to have a ‘Boston’ billed as an event for good/fast/quality/whatever runners to take part in and something for the rest of us to aim at. charlie

Response:

Has someone (TAC?) tallied the total finishers for the past couple years? The last number I heard was 420,000 in the USA, but am wondering if it is going up.

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Hi, Rick, Has someone (TAC?) tallied the total finishers for the past couple years? The last number I heard was 420,000 in the USA, but am wondering if it is going up.

The numbers I happen to have in a regional publication (Florida Running & Triathalon, Nov/Dec 2001, p25) quoting the USATF Information Center Sate of the Sport Report ( http://www.flrunning.com/features/stateofthesportone.html ) is for 2000 in the USA are: 5K – 2,815,000 10K – 1,089,000 8K/5M – 605,000 1/2 Marathon – 458,000 Marathon – 451,000 There’s a lot more in the report – for the number huggers among us (like me). Layne

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Question:

JC I think the other replies have made some good points though I JC have assumed that you either do not have access to ’spin JC classes’ or a road bike or you don’t want to do it that way. Well. Spin classees takes to much time (get there, change, shower, change, get home). Road bike: It

Question:

I’m looking for some bar end shifters for use with my Ultegra 8 spd drivetrain.  All I can find locally is Dura Ace 9 spd bar ends.  Will these work with a 8 spd drivetrain? (I think I know the answer to this but would like other opinions). Thanks, JJ

Response:

9 speed spacing is slightly different and will cause problems with 8 speed systems. You can use 9 spd stuff on friction but that sort of ruins the idea of having index shifting. 8 speed bar-end shifters are still available. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for some bar end shifters for use with my Ultegra 8 spd drivetrain.  All I can find locally is Dura Ace 9 spd bar ends.  Will these work with a 8 spd drivetrain? (I think I know the answer to this but would like other opinions). Thanks, JJ

Response:

I’m looking for some bar end shifters for use with my Ultegra 8 spd drivetrain.  All I can find locally is Dura Ace 9 spd bar ends.  Will these work with a 8 spd drivetrain? (I think I know the answer to this but would like other opinions).

You can definitely use the 9sp with your 8sp drivetrain, but you can also order a set of 8sp’s. Quality Bicycle Products sells them to shops through their catalog. Assuming they have them in stock, your LBS should be able to get them for you. There are several other distributors, too. Wesley Best East Coasters Cycling and Fitness Roanoke, VA

Response:

I found that I was always "tweaking" my down tube adjustment barrel, and finally went to the friction mode on my bar end shifting–it works just swell. I think the utility of index shifting is diminished with aero bar end shifting. So, you’ve doubled your options if friction shifting is good enough for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for some bar end shifters for use with my Ultegra 8 spd drivetrain.  All I can find locally is Dura Ace 9 spd bar ends.  Will these work with a 8 spd drivetrain? (I think I know the answer to this but would like other opinions). Thanks, JJ

Response:

I’m looking for some bar end shifters for use with my Ultegra 8 spd drivetrain.  All I can find locally is Dura Ace 9 spd bar ends.  Will these work with a 8 spd drivetrain? (I think I know the answer to this but would like other opinions).

Jeff, You can use 9sp bar end with an 8sp drivetrain but it does require a bit of tweaking. We still have 8sp bar ends in stock and they may be available at you LBS despite the fact that they have been discontinued. Thanks, Dan Rishworth Enduro Sport – Your Triathlon Source 1-800-448-4678 and http://www.endurosport.com/ —— To Subscribe to Enduro Sport eNews, our free email newsletter, please use the following link:

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Question:

Say, could someone please clarify a few of the acronyms that I see so often here on RST?  Specifically, I’d like to get up to speed on the IM event designations.  I know, for instance, that IMC is Iron Man Canada (at least I think) and that there’s an IMLP for Iron Man Lake Placid.  Exactly how many IM events take place around the world these days?  If there aren’t too many, could someone tell me where they all take place? Thanks for the ADA!(Acronym Definition Assistance)

IMH — Ironman Hawaii IMC — Ironman Canada IMUSA, IMLP — Ironman Lake Placid IMCA, IMCAL — Ironman California IMFL, IMFLA — Ironman Florida GFT — Great Floridian Triathlon IM Roth, IM Europe — Ironman Europe, in Roth IML — Ironman Lanzarote IMNZ — Ironman New Zealand IMAUS — Ironman Australia IMOZ — One of the two above, I’m a Northern Hemisphere chauvinist and can’t remember which. IMSA — Ironman South Africa, which I didn’t even know about until Jason’s binge–it’s not on the WTC’s web page. There are also official Ironman races in Austria, Switzerland, and Brazil. Rick "http://www.ironmanlive.com/" Denney

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HA HA! It’s not the directory, it’s the practice, it’s the invasion, it’s the slow demise of privacy. Suppose you joined a club that was not so..well, politically correct. Your choice, your right to join, your right to keep your membership to yourself – you shouldn’t have to tell anyone that you don’t want to. use your imagination to come up with a club that might fit that bill. Suppose they realize they can make a boatload of money by selling your membership info. That’s what I hate. Loss of privacy. Yeah, I know that nowhere did it say that my info would be kept private, but that’s legaleese. I fight the loss of privacy wherever I find it. Mike "I belong to no such clubs" Schwing

Then it doesn’t really matter then, does it? Do you really care if someone else knows you are a member of USAT? People can do a search on the internet and find out so many things about you that you would be even more astounded. And yet you throw away your privacy every day. Unless you are really a 13-year-old adolescent playing with… no, I’ve actually met you, so unless you hired a surrogate you are exactly who you appear to be in hundreds of Usenet posts splattered by your own hand all over the planet. So, what’s a little line in a thick directory to complain about? Rick "There, wasn’t that easy?" Denney

Response:

What’s a little line to complain about is that I didn’t put it out there myself. My phone number is unlisted, and you will have a tough time finding it on the internet, I spend alot of time searching for my own personal info on the internet, and I know the law is on my side if I ask the company/person putting it up to remove it, they by law must. I’ve had myself removed from most every major search/directory on the net, the only ones I may be reachable on are the ones that are new and I haven’t gotten to. The things that are out there on the internet about me that you describe are things that I have put there myself, by my own desire. I fight to keep things about myself that I didn’t want there out of other’s hands. I am amazed at the freedoms people willingly/blindly give up every day. It is one of the most important issues I can even imagine, and people blow it off so easily it terrifies me. The IronLibertarian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -People can do a search on the internet and find out so many things about you that you would be even more astounded. And yet you throw away your privacy every day. Unless you are really a 13-year-old adolescent playing with… no, I’ve actually met you, so unless you hired a surrogate you are exactly who you appear to be in hundreds of Usenet posts splattered by your own hand all over the planet. So, what’s a little line in a thick directory to complain about? Rick "There, wasn’t that easy?" Denney

Response:

Then it doesn’t really matter then, does it? Do you really care if someone else knows you are a member of USAT?

Yes, if I don’t tell them.   People can do a search on the internet and find out so many things about you that you would be even more astounded. And yet you throw away your privacy every day. Unless you are really a 13-year-old adolescent playing with… no, I’ve actually met you,

You may have met Mike, but not me.  I could be the person standing behind you in line for the movies the other night.  or all you know, I could be watching you from across the street right now.  Muuh hahahaha. Maybe I DO have something to hide, but in the USA, that’s my right. so unless you hired a surrogate you are exactly who you appear to be in hundreds of Usenet posts splattered by your own hand all over the planet.

Nothing is ever what it appears to be….

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brian wagner: Nothing is ever what it appears to be….

welcome to the dark side todd sandiego

Response:

welcome to the dark side

What’s this ‘welcome’ crap? I LIVE there!

Response:

Say, guys, life must be good if the most horrifying thing that faces our fragile sport is that our names are put in a directory that might be used by the free enterprise system to advertise to us. You guys must be Dem^H^H^H Rick "Trying to get worked up and can’t" Denney

I just wish they’d asked me first. I had a stalker a while ago (but he wasn’t determined enough to follow me when I moved from North Carolina to Texas , and ever since, I’ve become sort of paranoid about who gets my address and phone number and stuff. (I’m going to give USAT a call and ask them to take me out of the directory). Sure, in this Information Age, a stalker or other undesirable could probably find me if they really wanted to no matter what I do, but I see no reason to make it easy for them. Vanessa "it’s not paranoia if people really are out to get you" Smith

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Say, guys, life must be good if the most horrifying thing that faces our fragile sport is that our names are put in a directory that might be used by the free enterprise system to advertise to us. You guys must be Dem^H^H^H Rick "Trying to get worked up and can’t" Denney I just wish they’d asked me first. I had a stalker a while ago (but he wasn’t determined enough to follow me when I moved from North Carolina to Texas , and ever since, I’ve become sort of paranoid about who gets my address and phone number and stuff. (I’m going to give USAT a call and ask them to take me out of the directory). Sure, in this Information Age, a stalker or other undesirable could probably find me if they really wanted to no matter what I do, but I see no reason to make it easy for them. Vanessa "it’s not paranoia if people really are out to get you" Smith

        I ignored the damn card(s) and will continue to do so. There is much too much info out there on us as it is. —                   Ken K. Chairman, Department of Redundancy Department

Response:

Say, could someone please clarify a few of the acronyms that I see so often here on RST?  Specifically, I’d like to get up to speed on the IM event designations.  I know, for instance, that IMC is Iron Man Canada (at least I think) and that there’s an IMLP for Iron Man Lake Placid.  Exactly how many IM events take place around the world these days?  If there aren’t too many, could someone tell me where they all take place? Thanks for the ADA!(Acronym Definition Assistance) – Todd p.s. Will I be able to meet any of y’all(that’s Texan for "you guys") at the USTS Bally Total Fitness series this coming weekend in Dallas? "Pain is inevitable… misery is optional!"

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p.s. Will I be able to meet any of y’all(that’s Texan for "you guys") at the USTS Bally Total Fitness series this coming weekend in Dallas? "Pain is inevitable… misery is optional!"

Shouldnt that be the USTS BTFS? John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

Not those of us withing driving distance of the Canadian border. hehheh It would appear they are sitting pretty.  I just do the $5 a day thing because I’m just too disorganized and lazy to mail in the form.  If I was a member, I’d start looking for non USAT races, and if I could find a few, I’d threaten to quit USAT, knowing I could make good on it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everything you just said is totally true, and it’s still frustrating. They have us all by the shorts. If enough people threaten it, they’ll listen.  Re your plan to call USAT, what will you do if they laugh and say tough luck, we’re putting you in the directory and you can’t stop us, it’s a condition of membership.  The only meaningful card you have to play is withholding your membership, and by extension, your dues.  They have no other incentive to listen to you.  If there wasn’t an exchange of benefit, you wouldn’t be a member in the first place.  They will do whatever annoying things they want as long as they figure the annoyance won’t outweigh the benefits you derive from being a member.  The only way to make them stop is to make it clear that they have crossed the line where the benfits of membership are not worth the annoyance/loss of privacy cost.  Yes, if they "call you" on it, you’ll be driving to Canada to do all your racing.  It’s all a matter of cost/benefit analysis, as is the decision to participate in any business transaction.  You decide what’s valuable to you.  They try to deliver as little of that value as possible while extracting as much of what they value, be it dues or information from you as they can.  If you want to hold on to your information/privacy, you have to decide how much benefit you’re willing to sacrifice to do so. Well that’s surely a threat – cancel my membership and then I can’t race anymore! Ha showed you, didn’t I USAT! Who needs a nose when I’ve got a face! If enough people give them the same clear message, it will filter up the ladder.  My sister did telemarketing ons summer in college and the supervisors asked regularly what kind of responses they were getting. Just don’t be abusive – be clear, concise, and keep it simple and to the point – "That’s private information and I don’t want it published, and if this practice doesn’t stop I’ll cancel my membership."

Response:

Say, guys, life must be good if the most horrifying thing that faces our fragile sport is that our names are put in a directory that might be used by the free enterprise system to advertise to us. You guys must be Dem^H^H^H Rick "Trying to get worked up and can’t" Denney

Response:

HA HA! It’s not the directory, it’s the practice, it’s the invasion, it’s the slow demise of privacy. Suppose you joined a club that was not so..well, politically correct. Your choice, your right to join, your right to keep your membership to yourself – you shouldn’t have to tell anyone that you don’t want to. use your imagination to come up with a club that might fit that bill. Suppose they realize they can make a boatload of money by selling your membership info. That’s what I hate. Loss of privacy. Yeah, I know that nowhere did it say that my info would be kept private, but that’s legaleese. I fight the loss of privacy wherever I find it. Mike "I belong to no such clubs" Schwing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Say, guys, life must be good if the most horrifying thing that faces our fragile sport is that our names are put in a directory that might be used by the free enterprise system to advertise to us. You guys must be Dem^H^H^H Rick "Trying to get worked up and can’t" Denney

Response:

Everyone who gets these calls should use it as an opportunity to speak out against this commercial data mining of members. If we could attach some disclaimer to the backs of OUR USAT MEMBERSHIP checks, when they deposit them, they are bound to the terms for accepting the check.

Or, you can send feedback to the USAT Age Group Commission. There are two emails and a phone number listed on the USAT AGC page, as well as a feedback form. I used that to express my displeasure. Of course, if we cause the downfall of the USAT, who will we have to continue the fine enforcement of drafting at IMUSA?  :-)

Maybe that’s Dan Empfield’s new business — Draftbusters, Inc.  Hmmmm… David / FEY2K – IMCAL (remove spaces) at att dot net

Response:

Been out for a week. This peeves me to NO END! They started this crap months ago and I responded telling them that I wanted not one single shred of my membership published in their directory, not even my name. This week I get the phone spam and go through the roof. I called back to tell them the same damned thing this time, guess what – same answer – no problem, as of this moment you are removed from the list. She says – if you told us this before, why are you calling us back? !!!!!!! I swear she said that just to make me explode. I am tired of this. I will be in contact with USAT directly about this one, instead of using our so called "rumor mill" of a newsgroup. Anybody with me? PissedOffSchwingDing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone just received a phone call from USAT very recently (like this morning for me!) about updating their directory on you?  Luckily, I didn’t answer my phone with my name and told him ‘Darrin is not here right now’ and just took down his information.  I can’t believe how their pushing this crap! — Tri Your Hardest.  /O     ___o     o ~~~~   _ <,_    <|       (*)/ (*)    / Darrin Bartlett (313)317-7551 Ironman USA Lake Placid ‘99 11:44.48 Next up…. Ironman Austria 2000

Response:

What you are missing is the point. The point is that USAT can make money selling your info to others, and gets the info through a thinly disguised "member directory" that the members will benefit from. Question: Anybody know a fellow USAT member that they’ve tried to reach but couldn’t? Or didn’t already have their phone number/email address? Of course not, the ones you don’t know already, you don’t know! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is annoying…  There have been a few attempts to get me, but I have not been home, I’ve always be out training  I don’t understand why they need this directory.  Am I supposed to purchase a copy of this thing, so I can get in touch with others that enjoy triathlon?  I can just come here and meet everyone.  Maybe I’m missing something… Mike. Has anyone just received a phone call from USAT very recently (like this morning for me!) about updating their directory on you?  Luckily, I didn’t answer my phone with my name and told him ‘Darrin is not here right now’ and just took down his information.  I can’t believe how their pushing this crap! — Tri Your Hardest.   /O     ___o     o  ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)    / Darrin Bartlett (313)317-7551 Ironman USA Lake Placid ‘99 11:44.48 Next up…. Ironman Austria 2000 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Everything you just said is totally true, and it’s still frustrating. They have us all by the shorts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If enough people threaten it, they’ll listen.  Re your plan to call USAT, what will you do if they laugh and say tough luck, we’re putting you in the directory and you can’t stop us, it’s a condition of membership.  The only meaningful card you have to play is withholding your membership, and by extension, your dues.  They have no other incentive to listen to you.  If there wasn’t an exchange of benefit, you wouldn’t be a member in the first place.  They will do whatever annoying things they want as long as they figure the annoyance won’t outweigh the benefits you derive from being a member.  The only way to make them stop is to make it clear that they have crossed the line where the benfits of membership are not worth the annoyance/loss of privacy cost.  Yes, if they "call you" on it, you’ll be driving to Canada to do all your racing.  It’s all a matter of cost/benefit analysis, as is the decision to participate in any business transaction.  You decide what’s valuable to you.  They try to deliver as little of that value as possible while extracting as much of what they value, be it dues or information from you as they can.  If you want to hold on to your information/privacy, you have to decide how much benefit you’re willing to sacrifice to do so. Well that’s surely a threat – cancel my membership and then I can’t race anymore! Ha showed you, didn’t I USAT! Who needs a nose when I’ve got a face! If enough people give them the same clear message, it will filter up the ladder.  My sister did telemarketing ons summer in college and the supervisors asked regularly what kind of responses they were getting. Just don’t be abusive – be clear, concise, and keep it simple and to the point – "That’s private information and I don’t want it published, and if this practice doesn’t stop I’ll cancel my membership."

Response:

If enough people threaten it, they’ll listen.  Re your plan to call USAT, what will you do if they laugh and say tough luck, we’re putting you in the directory and you can’t stop us, it’s a condition of membership.  The only meaningful card you have to play is withholding your membership, and by extension, your dues.  They have no other incentive to listen to you.  If there wasn’t an exchange of benefit, you wouldn’t be a member in the first place.  They will do whatever annoying things they want as long as they figure the annoyance won’t outweigh the benefits you derive from being a member.  The only way to make them stop is to make it clear that they have crossed the line where the benfits of membership are not worth the annoyance/loss of privacy cost.  Yes, if they "call you" on it, you’ll be driving to Canada to do all your racing.  It’s all a matter of cost/benefit analysis, as is the decision to participate in any business transaction.  You decide what’s valuable to you.  They try to deliver as little of that value as possible while extracting as much of what they value, be it dues or information from you as they can.  If you want to hold on to your information/privacy, you have to decide how much benefit you’re willing to sacrifice to do so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well that’s surely a threat – cancel my membership and then I can’t race anymore! Ha showed you, didn’t I USAT! Who needs a nose when I’ve got a face! If enough people give them the same clear message, it will filter up the ladder.  My sister did telemarketing ons summer in college and the supervisors asked regularly what kind of responses they were getting. Just don’t be abusive – be clear, concise, and keep it simple and to the point – "That’s private information and I don’t want it published, and if this practice doesn’t stop I’ll cancel my membership."

Response:

Well that’s surely a threat – cancel my membership and then I can’t race anymore! Ha showed you, didn’t I USAT! Who needs a nose when I’ve got a face! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If enough people give them the same clear message, it will filter up the ladder.  My sister did telemarketing ons summer in college and the supervisors asked regularly what kind of responses they were getting. Just don’t be abusive – be clear, concise, and keep it simple and to the point – "That’s private information and I don’t want it published, and if this practice doesn’t stop I’ll cancel my membership."

Response:

It is annoying…  There have been a few attempts to get me, but I have not been home, I’ve always be out training  I don’t understand why they need this directory.  Am I supposed to purchase a copy of this thing, so I can get in touch with others that enjoy triathlon?  I can just come here and meet everyone.  Maybe I’m missing something… Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone just received a phone call from USAT very recently (like this morning for me!) about updating their directory on you?  Luckily, I didn’t answer my phone with my name and told him ‘Darrin is not here right now’ and just took down his information.  I can’t believe how their pushing this crap! — Tri Your Hardest.   /O     ___o     o  ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)    / Darrin Bartlett (313)317-7551 Ironman USA Lake Placid ‘99 11:44.48 Next up…. Ironman Austria 2000

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Has anyone just received a phone call from USAT very recently (like this morning for me!) about updating their directory on you?  Luckily, I didn’t answer my phone with my name and told him ‘Darrin is not here right now’ and just took down his information.  I can’t believe how their pushing this crap! — Tri Your Hardest.   /O     ___o     o      ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)    /           Darrin Bartlett (313)317-7551 Ironman USA Lake Placid ‘99 11:44.48 Next up…. Ironman Austria 2000

Response:

I’ve received the info twice in the mail and threw it out. Today (9/1), I also received a phone call and said that I didn’t want my info listed. She just said "Uh . . . Oh?. Thank you." Hopefully that puts an end to that. Rob Robertson

Response:

I’ve received the info twice in the mail and threw it out. Today (9/1), I also received a phone call and said that I didn’t want my info listed. She just said "Uh . . . Oh?. Thank you." Hopefully that puts an end to that. Rob Robertson

        Everyone who gets these calls should use it as an opportunity to speak out against this commercial data mining of members.  Don’t hide behind an answering machine; it can’t tell them how you feel about this.

Response:

Everyone who gets these calls should use it as an opportunity to speak out against this commercial data mining of members.

The only problem with that is that the people doing the calling are just the low-paid grunts. I doubt that they absorb any criticism of what they are doing, as they have to ignore it and move on. They are more likely to cut you off in mid-sentence. I would say that we should do like those scammers who send us checks that if we cash them, we commit to one overpriced scam or another. If we could attach some disclaimer to the backs of OUR USAT MEMBERSHIP checks, when they deposit them, they are bound to the terms for accepting the check. Of course, if we cause the downfall of the USAT, who will we have to continue the fine enforcement of drafting at IMUSA?  :-)

Response:

Everyone who gets these calls should use it as an opportunity to speak out against this commercial data mining of members. The only problem with that is that the people doing the calling are just the low-paid grunts. I doubt that they absorb any criticism of what they are doing, as they have to ignore it and move on. They are more likely to cut you off in mid-sentence.

If enough people give them the same clear message, it will filter up the ladder.  My sister did telemarketing ons summer in college and the supervisors asked regularly what kind of responses they were getting. Just don’t be abusive – be clear, concise, and keep it simple and to the point – "That’s private information and I don’t want it published, and if this practice doesn’t stop I’ll cancel my membership."

Response:

Question:

Did you try ( hate to say it) Paragon sports.  Also try Desoto sports web site and race ready web sites. Both have good stuff Ted

Response:

Check out www.tri-zone.com  they have a good selection of racing gear.  Good luck!

Response:

Okay, I’ve been trying to find someplace to buy a triathlon singlet. that has a fairly good selection.

If you’re up for web-ordering you might try http://www.transitionsports.com.  Tell Krag you’re expecting top notch service!  Put him through the paces… === Eric.com Pederson —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Okay, I’ve been trying to find someplace to buy a triathlon singlet.

Try  www.desotosport.com    Emilio makes the best Tri clothing on the planet.                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

Response:

Okay, I’ve been trying to find someplace to buy a triathlon singlet. You know, like a running singlet, but tighter fit, shorter and with a pocket (or pockets) in the back.  I’m now looking for a suggestion on where to buy one in NYC (preferrable Manhattan) or just a web-site that has a fairly good selection.   Thanks in advance, Walter R. Strapps

Response:

Question:

I have just been lurking here for a while but this post made me want to jump in quickly and tell everyone how educational and inspiring this newsgroup is for me.  Like the writer below, I am into weight-lifting and especially aerobics, a combo that helped me drop 70 pounds over the past 18 months (220 to 150–less than I weighed in eighth grade over 10 years ago ). However, I have always wanted to run but worried that I wouldn’t be able to hack it.  Some of my students (I teach high school and have a few track team members in my classes) gave me a lot of hints and encouragement (and took the time to be running partners) and I am now up to some times and speeds I am actually sort of proud of.  I love running more than I ever dreamed I would (when I even dared to dream that my fat self would ever be out there with those joggers and runners) and look forward to getting better and better over time as it becomes a part of my fitness routine and thus my life.  I check this newsgroup almost daily–I love all of the helpful information and advice and reports from different running events.  Every bit of it pushes me to be a better runner, especially since summer is coming up and I plan to use the time off to focus on my time and speed.  You are all to be commended for participating in a newsgroup that doesn’t degenerate into regular flame wars or name-calling or petulance but is actually HELPING a lot of people, myself included–my thanks go out to you. MJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

Response:

I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

Response:

Welcome to running and to this news group. Hey, your times for your first races are actually quite nice. (It’s taken me a few years to get down to 25:02 5K, just as a comparison if you like). SO ENJOY YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS! have a nice run. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

– Ed Prochak Magic Interface, Ltd. ORACLE services 440-498-3702

Response:

I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race !

It sounds like we hooked another one, guys. Who gets the trophy? <g <snip I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency ….

Good instincts.  I think it’s safe to say that no one – and I mean NO ONE,  runs 25 miles a day, 7 days a week. Not the Kenyans, not the Ethiopians, no one. Especially not 72 year old ladies. I correspond frequently with a 60+ lady that does the Ironman regularly and is the current  Olympic Distance Triathlon World Champion in her Age Group.  I can assure you she doesn’t do that kind of mileage. Perhaps the lady mis-spoke or you mis-heard. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03

Response:

She runs 25 miles everyday?  I’m sorry but that’s kinda hard to believe but I guess if she really does do it then good for her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a long time weight-lifter and aerobics enthusiast. Never had run much til started on treadmill a bit over the last few years. Got to liking the treadmill workouts…..and when invited last year to do a 5K run I said why not. I did "well" the first two miles and then as it was near 90 degrees the last third of the run….I wilted a bit and finished in 26:20. I ran my second 5K two months ago in another 5K race and finished with no walking this time, in 25:10. Another 5K run coming up in 8 days. This will be the first one I have trained for. I have been going to the track and running 2-4 miles 4-5 times a week and really enjoying it ! I finish the "run" and feel so relaxed and positive ! The next day I get up and can’t wait to hit the track again. Fighting a bit to try not to overdo it ! Getting excited about the race ! As an aside…I have seen a lady…it turns out she is 72 years old….running all over the city for the past few years, others tell me they have seen her for at least 5 years running. I told her how I see her running all over the place and asked her how far she runs. Turns out she says she runs 25 miles everyday .. 7 days a week !! And I tend to believe her ! Next time I see her I have to ask her what sort of times it takes to run 25. DIdn’t think anyone could do those distances at that frequency …. My best wishes to everyone on newsgroup….I have enjoyed the group muchly…. John

Response:

She runs 25 miles everyday?  I’m sorry but that’s kinda hard to believe but I guess if she really does do it then good for her.

I wonder what she does for a long run.    -Phil

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just been lurking here for a while but this post made me want to jump in quickly and tell everyone how educational and inspiring this newsgroup is for me.  Like the writer below, I am into weight-lifting and especially aerobics, a combo that helped me drop 70 pounds over the past 18 months (220 to 150–less than I weighed in eighth grade over 10 years ago ). However, I have always wanted to run but worried that I wouldn’t be able to hack it.  Some of my students (I teach high school and have a few track team members in my classes) gave me a lot of hints and encouragement (and took the time to be running partners) and I am now up to some times and speeds I am actually sort of proud of.  I love running more than I ever dreamed I would (when I even dared to dream that my fat self would ever be out there with those joggers and runners) and look forward to getting better and better over time as it becomes a part of my fitness routine and thus my life.  I check this newsgroup almost daily–I love all of the helpful information and advice and reports from different running events.  Every bit of it pushes me to be a better runner, especially since summer is coming up and I plan to use the time off to focus on my time and speed.  You are all to be commended for participating in a newsgroup that doesn’t degenerate into regular flame wars or name-calling or petulance but is actually HELPING a lot of people, myself included–my thanks go out to you. MJ

Good to hear from you all…..I’ll followup on the lady runner…..and GO MJ !! I ran 4 1/2 miles tonight at the track…mmmmhh…felt good !! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

In article I think it’s safe to say that no one – and I mean NO ONE,  runs 25 miles a day, 7 days a week

That’s 175 miles a week, which has been exceeded by many people, doing two-a-days.  The old lady didn’t say she did a 25-mile run every day, only that she ran 25 miles a day, which is very different.  Assuming she’s retired, she could do five before breakfast, then run to her friend’s house for lunch, walk the dog in the afternoon, etc.

Response:

In article I think it’s safe to say that no one – and I mean NO ONE,  runs 25 miles a day, 7 days a week That’s 175 miles a week, which has been exceeded by many people, doing two-a-days.  The old lady didn’t say she did a 25-mile run every day, only that she ran 25 miles a day, which is very different.  

Sorry,  but I’ll stand by my statement. You say "many" people exceed 175 miles a week?   I can offer this. Matt Mahoney started a "Million Mile Run" a while back and has been tracking the mileage of a number of ultra runners at: http://www.he.net/~mmahoney/ultra/million.htm The top 5 runners there have gone over 10,000 miles in 28 months. They range from 10,683 (Steve Morrow) to 12,428 (Bill Misner). For Bill that’s an average of 443 miles a month, or 15 miles a day. For Steve it’s about 360 a month or 12 a day.  Now, if these elite ultra runners "only" average that, just what chance do you think there is that a 72 yr old lady is besting them by 10 miles a day? Or that "many" runners do, too? Your evidence? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03

Response:

Question:

     Must…resist…having…physics…discussion on RST….   Actually, that does sound familiar, but I think it has something to do with energy turning to mass. Probably has something to do with Newton’s laws not working in subatomic levels.   I don’t think this would affect your wheels (whose particles are essentially in orbit around your axis, that’s how this got started).   But, orbital decay is a good excuse for at least going 30 seconds below your PR….

Response:

Oh yeah, I forgot that I

Question:

Does anybody know how long the run course actually was.  My pace was way too good to be a full 4.6 miles.  How long did we run?

Response:

I carefully measured it as 3.8 miles from gate to gate of the North whatchamacallit Club of Lake Mission Viejo. The distance down to the finish line was about 300 yards, the distance uphill from transition was about 220 yards. Thus add three tenths of a mile and you get 4.1 mile best estimate. This puts me at about 7:35 per mile well off 7:02 for the official distance, but more realistic given how I felt after the bike and a week-long cold. If you want to cross check it, the top runners said they were motoring along at a 5:20 per mile pace and when you get their splits, you can do the math. My cyclometer also registered 16.9 miles for the bike rack to rack. I know, both adjustments are humbling to me, knocking my mph from 19.0 to 18.4 biut realistic again given my struggle on the 10 hills. TGCarlson

Response:

Does anybody know how long the run course actually was.  My pace was way too good to be a full 4.6 miles.  How long did we run?

The run was more like 4.2 miles.  At least that is what Jack Caress said it was.  The swim was a little long for 1k, don’t you think? Ron ^^^ Ron Williams Prescott, Arizona http://pr.erau.edu/~williar/

Response:

I agree that the run and bike were short, but my times suggest that if the swim was long, it was not by very much. Does anybody know how long the run course actually was.  My pace was way too good to be a full 4.6 miles.  How long did we run?

The run was more like 4.2 miles.  At least that is what Jack Caress said it was.  The swim was a little long for 1k, don’t you think? Ron ^^^ Ron Williams Prescott, Arizona http://pr.erau.edu/~williar/

Response:

PS I hope that my attempts to accurately reflect the run mileage does not distract from my earlier post — so let me repeat: Let us profusely thank Jack Caress for his great job saving the Orange County Performing Arts Triathlon and congratulate him on a very hard job very well done in very short order. I know how hard he worked negotiating with Mission Viejo and the state Park services for access to the roads and no matter how tough and crowded we thought the swim was, it was nothing compared to his great feat of cutting through such dense red tape to get the roads free to race on. The race was very well put on with a lot of details improved over an already well run event — such as the layout of the transition zone and the end of the swim — and I anticipate more next year. Caress also did a great job convincing Steve Locke of TriFed to hold the Age Group nationals in Orange County next year. Here’s hoping his search for pro sponsors will go well, too. Timothy Carlson

Response:

Question:

Here are some behaviours that are indicative of a true trigeek. True trigeeks:- Lay their clothes out on the bathroom floor before taking a shower. Get dressed without drying. Fit aerobars to the toilet seat.   Use Scott dispensers in the bathroom. Have specifically adapted sleep patterns in which they wake every 15 minutes in order to take on fluids. Any more?

Response:

Here are some behaviours that are indicative of a true trigeek. True trigeeks:- Lay their clothes out on the bathroom floor before taking a shower. Get dressed without drying.

Doesn’t everyone? Fit aerobars to the toilet seat.  

Umm, don’t you mean "powerbars". Use Scott dispensers in the bathroom.

Scott tissues?  Why not? Have specifically adapted sleep patterns in which they wake every 15 minutes in order to take on fluids.

From a Jetstream of course! Wear a speedo instead of underwear. Have lacelocks on all shoes including dress shoes.  Those brown lacelocks are damn hard to find too. After swimming with the local Masters group, they shower and dress faster than anyone.  Its just transition practice. Cut the grass doing intervals.  200 X (2 yard lengths hard, 1 easy) Have an extra $10K of disposable income during the off-season. Put on 10 pounds within a week of the last season’s race and then admire their physique. (tell me this ain’t true you skinny, fast guys) During the off-season, they bump their sleep time from 4 to 5 hours a night.

Response:

    [.. How to spot a trigeek] I think the classic is… You know you’re a trigeek when: YOU CAN NO LONGER TIE SHOE LACES Paul

Response:

Alun Evans had some funny lines on how to spot a tri-geek.  Here are some of mine….. While in a shoe store buying new shoes, a tri-geek will forget how to tie the laces due to the dependance on elastic laces or slip locks. While training during the winter at the local gym, a tri-geek will attach aero-bars to the life-cycle before riding. A hot meal consists of a powerbar and a bottle of gatorade that has been left all day in the sun on the dashboard of the car. And my favorite, because it has really happened to me…..  The nurse or doctor upon taking your pulse will wonder if you are OK becasue your Heart Rate is so low… David S. Kemp                           | Run, Bike, Run….         Systems Administrator/Systems Security  |   <<    _-_<’     << U.S. Patent & Trademark Office              |   //   (*)/’(*)    // STIC Biotechnology Systems Branch       | "I’d rather be out training (703) 305-7795     FAX: (703) 308-4496  |  for my next duathlon."

Response:

Several years ago, when Celeste Calahan, triathlete now competing in the 50-54 age group, was brought before the magistrate for speeding and asked her age, she replied "45 to 49."  "Don’t get smart with me lady!" said the magistrate. So he learned another way to spot a trigeek. Kazez

Response:

Question:

I’m going to be in SF for about 10 days.  I’ll be staying at a hotel in the neighborhood of fisherman’s wharf.  Any suggestions for good running routes in the area? -Thanks

Response:

I’ve been there once on a business trip and asked a good friend what his favorite route was.  He suggested starting at the Ferry Building and running along the Embarcadero to the Golden Gate Bridge and back. I forget the distance but it’s around 6, 7 miles. Optionally, you can continue over the bridge and go all the way to SanSalito (sp?) and take the ferry back. After doing the shorter run twice during the week, on one Saturday afternoon after my convention was over, I stuck a $20 bill in my sock and did this. I bought food at a deli in this beautiful little town and sat on a bench eating it while I waited for the ferry. It was one of my favorite runs of all time.  The ferry ride back takes most of an hour as I remember and has a beautiful view of the harbor. Actually, I couldn’t run the whole distance at that time and had to walk part of it (it’s around 12-14 miles, if I recall correctly and I only recently have worked up to 10 mile runs), but what the heck, it was great! -JohnT. — /* NAME John H. Thompson     WORK Dynamics Research Corporation PROJECT OptiQual A/S   ADDRESS(4) %WORK  60 Frontage Road  Andover  MA 01810 OSYS MS_Windows DOS VMS  PHONE(2) %WORK 508 475 9090 x2181  HOME 617 246 1336

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You’re in the World’s best city for running, the hills not withstanding. "Good" routes are a function of how far you normally run.  If 10 miles is not a stretch, the following is a good run:  Head to fisherman’s wharf.  Turn left (east) and run along the wharf (near the water) past aquatic park ( a cresent shaped path along the water.)  Continue over Fort MAson (on your right as you exit aquatic park).  Keeping the water on you right, run for another 2.5 – 3 miles to the Golden Gate Bridge. return Via Same route.  If you’re not up to ten miles go PAst Fort Mason about .5 miles and return – total run about 2.5 – 3 miles. There are some terrific runs in the Presidio or the Marin Headlands (Across the Golden Gate Bridge), but you’d need to drive to Marin or be willing to do 20 milers – there and back.  If you can run 12- 15 miles the presidio is a good run from the wharf, otherwise a drive to the presidio is recommneded Good Luck Rich

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I’m going to be in SF for about 10 days.  I’ll be staying at a hotel in the neighborhood of fisherman’s wharf.  Any suggestions for good running routes in the area?

One of the beautiful places in the world to run. Follow the coastline west to the GG bridge. You can run across that too. For the more energetic, you can continue into the Marin headlands, or loop around the beaches to GG park and back through the park. Another interesting run is to the top of a hill such as twin peaks. I’d avoid running downtown because of frequent traffic stops, although Van Ness and Market have long green lights.

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Don’t miss a chance to run across the Golden Gate bridge- seems hokey, but it’s one of a handfull of runs I’ve remembered over the years!

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: Don’t miss a chance to run across the Golden Gate bridge- seems hokey, but : it’s one of a handfull of runs I’ve remembered over the years! If you can, try to run the bridge early in the AM.  Back when I used to live in SF I’d run it at sunrise.  That is a gorgeous sight, seeing the sun rise over the city… —

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I’m going to be in SF for about 10 days.  I’ll be staying at a hotel in the neighborhood of fisherman’s wharf.  Any suggestions for good running routes in the area? -Thanks

An excellent run, is right outside your door.Ask for the direction to Ft. Mason, and then ask for the way to the Marina Green, running alongside the Bay is wonderful from the Marina Safeway all the way to the Golden Gate bridge through Crissy field and then back…about six miles, and if there’s no fog, then there’ll probably be no wind. Stay near the water and you’ll see some great looking runners, and the usual extraordinary views, of Alcatraz, Angel Island, The Marine Headlands etc. Harlan

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Hey all, I’ll be in San Francisco for a conference next week and am looking for some good running routes. I’d also like to do a long run of 14-15 miles. I’ll be staying at the Hyatt Embarcadero. What about from downtown across the Golden Gate Bridge into Sausalito?? Would appreciate hearing from you by email if possible. Thanks in advance. Terry

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Hey all, I’ll be in San Francisco for a conference next week and am looking for some good running routes. I’d also like to do a long run of 14-15 miles. I’ll be staying at the Hyatt Embarcadero. What about from downtown across the Golden Gate Bridge into Sausalito??

I was in SF two weeks ago staying at the Fairmont on Nob Hill. This is not far from the Hyatt (although it’s quite a bit higher up!) I did a long run that went down to Fisherman’s Wharf and then along the bay to the Golden Gate Bridge. I crossed the bridge and then was going to go back through the Presidio and then back to Nob Hill along California Ave. Would have been about 14 miles if I had done it right. However, the fog rolled in and I got totally lost in all the winding streets of the Presidio. I wound up running closer to 16 miles. Of course, it was so nice and cool running in the fog, I didn’t mind the extra distance. It was a very pleasant run, even with the uphill finish. There is a water fountain in the scenic parking area just northeast of the bridge. Eric Buckley Comsys Millenium Services eMail: remove NoSpam from above Standard disclaimer – I speak for myself and nobody else.

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I’ll be in San Francisco for a conference next week and am looking for some good running routes. I’d also like to do a long run of 14-15 miles. I’ll be staying at the Hyatt Embarcadero. What about from downtown across the Golden Gate Bridge into Sausalito?? I was in SF two weeks ago staying at the Fairmont on Nob Hill. This is not far from the Hyatt (although it’s quite a bit higher up!) I did a long run that went down to Fisherman’s Wharf and then along the bay to the Golden Gate Bridge. I crossed the bridge and then was going to go back through the Presidio and then back to Nob Hill along California

The E-Hyatt is close to the shoreline.  Just go NE on Market for two blocks, then follow the shoreline for nearly car-free running. There will be some tourist congestion in the vicinity of Fisherman’s Wharf for several blocks. Run all the way along the seashore to the base of the GG bridge, then take one of th trails up to the bridge and cross it.

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 What about from downtown across the Golden Gate Bridge into Sausalito??

See: http://www.slip.net/~leeway/therun.html Look at the Golden Gate Promenade and Marin Headlands file. There are bike rental stores around there, too. Bike shops on links page. Oh, and bring your wetsuit. (Aquatic Park) http://www.slip.net/~leeway/theswim.html Regards, Lee Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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Try this. Park at the Marina Green. Run to the Golden Gate Bridge and across. Fun. At the north end, take the pedestrian/bike walkway <under the bridge. Then cross the parking lot and start out on the Coastal Trail. (Clearly marked.) You’ll go uphill-ish for a mile or so. Take it easy and enjoy the views. Hey, you can go all the way to a cow pasture just south of Olema (38mi). The Marin Headlands are wonderful. Beautiful views of ocean and Bay. Enjoy.

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Hey all, I’ll be in San Francisco for a conference next week and am looking for some good running routes. I’d also like to do a long run of 14-15 miles. I’ll be staying at the Hyatt Embarcadero. What about from downtown across the Golden Gate Bridge into Sausalito??

Spent last summer staying at the Marriott at 4th & Market. Good running routes: seaward along Market to the Embarcader, then around to the Golden Gate. Also: a short distance the other direction along Market, to Civic Center, then over to Golden Gate Park. A great feature of SF is the number of hills. You can plan runs to include as many hills as you like in a short distance.   Alan Gore         |  is like giving whiskey and car keys   Software For PC’s |  to teenaged boys" – P. J. O’Rourke http://www.primenet.com/~agore

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Correction: That should have been "Bayward along Market…"   Alan Gore         |  is like giving whiskey and car keys   Software For PC’s |  to teenaged boys" – P. J. O’Rourke http://www.primenet.com/~agore

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You can run/hike the shoreline from 3Com/Candlestick Park past the bridges and down the ocean side for 20 miles or more or any segment inbetween.  If you are in the downtown hotels, either Market Street to the Embarcadero or Van Ness to aquatic park gives you a minimal number of red light stops.   After 10AM the Pier 39 – Fishermans Wharf segment is congested with tourists.  There are a couple segmanets along the shoreline blocked by houses and you have to run inland for a few blocks. The Golden Gate Bridge allows running on the east side and is very pretty. You connect up with the grassy hillland on the Marin side of the bridge and run for tens of miles there. There are hills and poison oak there. Before you buy.

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YOu will see this thing that International Orange on your left side of Fisherman’s Wharf.  It’s really big with two really tall posts and really big wires holding up a road.   It’s called The Golden GAte Bridge. Just follow everyone else with San Francisco running clothes.

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I will be in S.F. for 4 days (8-12 Oct) and I’d like to find a place to run. I will be staying in the vicinity of Fishermans wharf and I’d like to be able to run without worrying about where I am.  I will have no transportation other than my own feet so it would need to be a round trip from the piers.  The longest I’d need is 15-16 miles.  Thanks for any help.

As for events…search this website.   It has local races. http://www.theschedule.com/index.phtml From Fisherman’s Wharf, you could run along the Embarcadero.  It is scenic but the surface is not the best and I personally don’t like running around pedestrians, which you will see a lot of during the day.  But a lot of people do it.  If you run in the opposite direction from the Wharf, and stay near the water, you will encounter a nice run along the Marina, toward the Golden Gate Bridge.  Once you see the Safeway Store, it is about 10-11 miles to the bridge, across the bridge, and back to the Safeway. Have fun! Ernie

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I will be in S.F. for 4 days (8-12 Oct) and I’d like to find a place to run. I will be staying in the vicinity of Fishermans wharf and I’d like to be able to run without worrying about where I am.  I will have no transportation other than my own feet so it would need to be a round trip from the piers.  The longest I’d need is 15-16 miles.  Thanks for any help. Craig McVeay

You’re positioned in a great place to run — there are roads and paths along the coast all the way to the Golden Gate Bridge.  Enjoy! — Phoenix, Arizona Before you buy.

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If I remember correctly, from the Embarcadero Hyatt, over the Golden Gate and back is 14 miles.  (And, on a sunny day, 14 beautiful miles). There are two tricky parts.  The foot traffic around Fisherman’s Wharf (go earlier or go a block up from FW) and finding the log stairway/path up to the bridge (the only thing I can say about this is that it’s just before I expect to see it).   I have also run from the brewpub (the Beach House?)at the end of big park to the bridge.  It’s beautiful, a bit hilly, and there’s a few breaks in the "trail." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in S.F. for 4 days (8-12 Oct) and I’d like to find a place to run. I will be staying in the vicinity of Fishermans wharf and I’d like to be able to run without worrying about where I am.  I will have no transportation other than my own feet so it would need to be a round trip from the piers.  The longest I’d need is 15-16 miles.  Thanks for any help. Craig McVeay

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A last minute change in my plans has me in San Francisco from 8-12 Oct and I need to find a place to run.  I will be staying in the vicinity of Fishermans wharf and I won’t have any transportation other than my own feet. If anyone has a few favorites with at least one of them being 15-18 miles, I sure would appreciate it.  Also, are there any events scheduled for that time frame?  My thanks in advance. Craig McVeay

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I will be in S.F. for 4 days (8-12 Oct) and I’d like to find a place to run. I will be staying in the vicinity of Fishermans wharf and I’d like to be able to run without worrying about where I am.  I will have no transportation other than my own feet so it would need to be a round trip from the piers.  The longest I’d need is 15-16 miles.  Thanks for any help. Craig McVeay

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(Mike MacKay) writes: I would like to choose a San Francisco hotel that offers a pleasant, worry-free running environment.  We will be spending a few days there this summer. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

The San Remo(s)? Hotel in North Beach is owned by a couple of guys who call themselves "The Running Brothers"; they always advertise in the Northern California Schedule, and that’s where I know of them from. I do know that location, and it happens to be my favorite part of S.F. You’re relatively close to the Wharf, the Marina District, and running should be easy there. ….al w.a. mckay desert research institute reno, nevada

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I would like to choose a San Francisco hotel that offers a pleasant, worry-free running environment.  We will be spending a few days there this summer. Mike

Mike, there are a couple of nice (but fancy) bed and breakfast places near Golden Gate Park, which is a very nice place to run considering that it’s in a city. There is also a very quaint hotel (not cheap either, but very nice) right off the park called the Stanyan Park Hotel. I am not affiliated with this hotel but my parents have stayed there and really like it. There is a mostly dirt bridle path that runs most of the way around the outside of the park and other nice trails running all through it. The park is an interesting place to run. When I first moved here I would run down to the park and just run around at random for a while, getting to know the area. Also, there is a beach at the west end of the park if you like beach running. Enjoy your visit this summer, but expect foggy weather. Cheers, -Chad

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I would like to choose a San Francisco hotel that offers a pleasant, worry-free running environment.  We will be spending a few days there this summer. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Mike

– Mike, I stayed last summer with my family at the Marriott in Fisherman’s Wharf area. This hotel was about 1 1/2 miles from the Park/area that runs along the coastline to just under the Golden Gate bridge. Every day I saw scores of runners running along this causeway. It was very flat, but always windy, giving you a workout in one direction, but a good ride in the other. The scenery is beautiful, and there is always something going on to look at. BTW, the hotel is situated very conveniently to the cable system and points of interest. The ferry trip to Alcatraz is worth it (book early!). Good luck. Dave Sargent Gate City Striders BBS Nashua, NH 603-888-5477   Granite Square, a FirstClass BBS, through PostalUnion by I.E.   The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual.

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I would like to choose a San Francisco hotel that offers a pleasant, worry-free running environment.  We will be spending a few days there this summer. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Mike —

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I would like to choose a San Francisco hotel that offers a pleasant, worry-free running environment.  We will be spending a few days there this summer. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Stay away from downtown/union square with all the traffic and homeless people.  Try the Lombard street area, not too far from the bay coastline and GG Bridge.

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