Question:

Hi out there in Triathlon land! Anyone of you guys have anything good or bad to say about Cervelo P3, let me know as i’m in the market for a new triathlon frame. // Lars

Response:

Anyone of you guys have anything good or bad to say about Cervelo P3, let me know as i’m in the market for a new triathlon frame.

   I have had mine for 2 years now and LOVE it.  It is fast, comfortablable, etc.  FYI – in the past I have had a Softride, Litespeed, and a Felt (I’ve been around a while!) and IMHO the P3 is tops! Good Luck!       David Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others…..

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comfortablable

       I guess when I was writing this I was thinking REAL comfortable! david

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I finished building up my P3 a month ago and absolutely love it.  I’ve found that it does not have a harsh ride that some aluminum frames do and I’ve also picked up an extra mph on typical rides over my road bike.  Not sure if that’s due to the aerodynamics of it or my excitement but never the less, I highly recommend the P3.  The ability to change the seat tube angle with the flip around seat post head is a cool feature since you can decide which position suits you the best The only minor problem I had when building it up was trying to figure out whether the shifter cables were twisted in the downtube due to the lack of internal cable routing.  My solution was to hold one taut and tug on the other one to try to see if the motion caused the other cable to vibrate at all.  And it does take practice to get the rear wheel out quickly with the horizontal dropouts.     -Darrell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi out there in Triathlon land! Anyone of you guys have anything good or bad to say about Cervelo P3, let me know as i’m in the market for a new triathlon frame. // Lars

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Question:

It is quite the dilemma isn’t it.  I would consider myself an intermediate to strong swimmer so the wetsuit does still help me.  To remain competitive I’ve worn wetsuits in situations where I wouldn’t if I was training. Overheating is my main concern when wearing a wetsuit in warmer water.  What I usually do, when racing, is go for comfort (cooler body temp) on swims a mile or under.  In these cases what I lose is minimal.  Now here’s what I think.  Drop the temp to 73 or 74 for the rules.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be doing a tri  this weekend where the water temp will be about 75 F(24 C). Most people will be wearing a wet suit even though at these temps there is no real justification for thermal protection. They are being worn strictly as a floatation device which gives the advantage to weaker swimmers such as myself. Unless there is an actual need for colder water I tend to think they should be banned, even though it is people such as myself who benefit most using a wet suit. That’s just my opinion. What do others think.

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I find it upsetting that guys who can do a 1/2 mile swim in around 10 minutes resort to using swimsuits even in water temps. well above 75 degrees.  My read is that the manufacturers of the wetsuits are behind allowing the elite to use rubber life rafts (at 75+ what else would you call them?)  to improve their times.  Same thing applies to bikes.  Should there be a category for bikes over $3000?  I’ve seen many races where the best athlete doesn’t win simply because their competitor is better equiped. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am fair on the swim for my age group 49 years old, around  21 minutes for 1500 meters but I still feel that wetsuit should be allowed at any temperture because of the safety factor. I have been in a triathlon back in 1987 when a young strong swimmer didn’t make it. As far as the cost it’s really small when you spread it over time, my last wetsuit lasted 10 years at $250. Our sport can be expenise but if you, a friend or love one has an accident this is pretty cheap.

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Same thing applies to bikes.  Should there be a category for bikes over $3000?  I’ve seen many races where the best athlete doesn’t win simply because their competitor is better equiped.

- hmnnn.. many races where this has taken place? I find this rather unlikely, unless of course you’re talking about a naturally gifted athlete who is new to the sport- but who’s fault is that? if they are that good, and interested in being very competitive- it is up to them to get on the level w/ their bike and wheels. unless we all want to ride roadmaster bikes ( not a bad idea) i don’t really see a solution- or problem, for that matter. I think the difference in technology in the ‘tri/ aero bike’ range is fairly minimal-

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You’ve probably hit on something here.  Barefoot run.  Speedo Lycra (waist cut).  Schwinn Green Hornet (is, was there such a thing?), Schwinn components, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it upsetting that guys who can do a 1/2 mile swim in around 10 minutes resort to using swimsuits even in water temps. well above 75 degrees.  My read is that the manufacturers of the wetsuits are behind allowing the elite to use rubber life rafts (at 75+ what else would you call them?)  to improve their times.  Same thing applies to bikes.  Should there be a category for bikes over $3000?  I’ve seen many races where the best athlete doesn’t win simply because their competitor is better equiped. I am fair on the swim for my age group 49 years old, around  21 minutes for 1500 meters but I still feel that wetsuit should be allowed at any temperture because of the safety factor. I have been in a triathlon back in 1987 when a young strong swimmer didn’t make it. As far as the cost it’s really small when you spread it over time, my last wetsuit lasted 10 years at $250. Our sport can be expenise but if you, a friend or love one has an accident this is pretty cheap.

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I find it upsetting that guys who can do a 1/2 mile swim in around 10 minutes resort to using swimsuits even in water temps. well above 75 degrees.  My read is that the manufacturers of the wetsuits are behind allowing the elite to use rubber life rafts (at 75+ what else would you call them?)  to improve their times.  Same thing applies to bikes.  Should there be a category for bikes over $3000?  I’ve seen many races where the best athlete doesn’t win simply because their competitor is better equiped.

Difference: even the most expensive bike can’t make you effectively lighter. Mark M

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People use the wetsuits for the flotation aid. I did the first NYC Triathlon last weekend where water temperatures were around 75 F. EVERYBODY wore a wetsuit. The funny part was that the current was so fast that swim times were around 13 minutes (1500 mts). I think that was most the time lost on that race on getting out of the wetsuit at T1 than the minimal advantage on wearing it that day. One for us, the ones who think that wetsuit should be

Even at 400m, I gain enough time with the suit (~45 seconds) to make it worthwhile.  Even if it’s a draw, the gain in not getting cold is immense. — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

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Would have to disagree.  The work/energy you expend during the bike is directly proportional to the total weight of the bike plus the rider. So….a lighter (often times more expensive) bike does make you effectively lighter.  Seems to me it’s pretty analogous.  (And, BTW, lighter shoes help as well.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Difference: even the most expensive bike can’t make you effectively lighter. Mark M

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Would have to disagree.  The work/energy you expend during the bike is directly proportional to the total weight of the bike plus the rider. So….a lighter (often times more expensive) bike does make you effectively lighter.  Seems to me it’s pretty analogous.  (And, BTW, lighter shoes help as well.) Difference: even the most expensive bike can’t make you effectively lighter.

The operative word was YOU. Unless you’re crawling along, the work you do on the bike is pretty much dominated by losses to air resistance. On hills there’s a more significant effect, but the point stands. Mark M

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Drop the temp to 73 or 74 for the rules.

Actually isn’t this what the ITU rules are.  74 (24 deg C) for age groupers and 69 (20 deg C) for elite. AJ (Water temperature here never gets above 24 deg C anyway)

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Agree that wind resistance is important.  There is both parasitic drag (the drag caused by shapes not consistent with good airflow and acutally reduces with speed) and induced drag (caused by any "lifting surfaces" which increases with the square of speed.)  That said, weight counts!  Why else would we spend $$$ for titanium parts, OCLV frames, etc., etc., etc. And, also agree that the operative word is YOU.  Which is why Lance Armstrong climbs hills better now, post cancer recovery, that he weighs considerably less. And, back to the shoe analogy. Average runner strides per mile:    1500 Marathon length:                            26.2 miles Strides per marathon:                    39,300 Therefore, for each extra ounce of shoe weight you lift an additional 39,300 ounces or 2,456 lbs.  (or 1 1/4 tons as I like to think about it!) Bottom line is, weight counts in all the disciplines.  (Although, in swimming I’d argue that the floatation from the wetsuit is more relevant in terms of reducing drag…since most men’s legs ride low in the water and the wetsuit makes them buoyant…as opposed to the weight per se.) And, the other personal bottom line (see other post) is that wetsuits can save lives (mine included), which makes me personally a big fan!  Then again, I’m not even close to being a competitive tri-athlete.  So, maybe we should have a recreational category for people like me who enjoy the training, enjoy the comradery and challenge of the the competitions, but still want to see their families on Sunday afternoons….  Just a thought.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would have to disagree.  The work/energy you expend during the bike is directly proportional to the total weight of the bike plus the rider. So….a lighter (often times more expensive) bike does make you effectively lighter.  Seems to me it’s pretty analogous.  (And, BTW, lighter shoes help as well.) Difference: even the most expensive bike can’t make you effectively lighter. The operative word was YOU. Unless you’re crawling along, the work you do on the bike is pretty much dominated by losses to air resistance. On hills there’s a more significant effect, but the point stands. Mark M

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There are some races that stipulate if you use a wetsuit then you are disqualified from placing.  That seems fair in that it lets those who need the suit for safety or confidence reasons to wear one.  The bike is even worse.  I continue to ride a retro 6 speed from 87 and watched several competitors in 98 gain 1-2 mph simply by moving to a 3K+ 9 speed steed.  In a 20mile plus bike that translates to over 2 minutes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Drop the temp to 73 or 74 for the rules. Actually isn’t this what the ITU rules are.  74 (24 deg C) for age groupers and 69 (20 deg C) for elite. AJ (Water temperature here never gets above 24 deg C anyway)

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but I still feel that wetsuit should be allowed at any temperture because of the safety factor.

ANY temp? Our water temp in the Gulf gets way up in the 80’s sometimes. It’s in the mid 80’s today. I would like race directors to have the right to disallow wetsuits under those conditions due to the risk of competitors overheating during the swim.

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Drop the temp to 73 or 74 for the rules. Actually isn’t this what the ITU rules are.  74 (24 deg C) for age groupers and 69 (20 deg C) for elite. AJ (Water temperature here never gets above 24 deg C anyway)

Since some folks have said that in "some" tris they were allowed, some they  weren’t, etc… From the USAT Rulebook: Each age group participant shall be permitted to wear a wet suit without penalty in any event sanctioned by USA Triathlon up to and including a water temperature of 78 degrees Fahrenheit. When the water temperature is greater than 78 degrees, but less than 84 degrees Fahrenheit, age group participants may wear a wet suit at their own discretion, provided however that participants who wear a wet suit within this temperature range shall not be eligible for prizes or awards. Age group participants shall not wear wet suits in water temperatures equal to or greater than 84 degrees Fahrenheit. It would seem that if a race was sanctioned, the above rules would be in effect unless they got a specific waiver. In a few non-sanctioned races I’ve been in, they used the USAT rule anyway. As Lew pointed out, 78 degree water feels quite chilly to most folks. 84 would probably feel comfortable. He also points out that they were established after careful review, so I believe they’re reasonable. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman, Model Railroader, Gamer

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but cold water is no problem.  I have raced Olympic distance races in 65 F water with no wetsuit, and had no problem, and I am a skinny dude.  Wetsuits just make this expensive sport even more so, because if you are trying to place well and all your opponents have wetsuits, you better have one too or you are giving the race away.  I say, wetsuits only for temperatures 65 or below or at highest 68 (which is ten degrees below what it is now).

yep- i think 78 degrees is probably a bit high- but this is a safety issue as well- have you ever swam an hour in 68 degree water? you’ll probably need a 30 minute hot shower to raise your body temp back up- especially if the air temperature is cool- I think 72 is a better mark- as used by the ITU- 78 is almost too warm for a suit, imo

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I think that some races allow and encourage wet suits so that the race organizer will sleep better.   It’s hard to loose someone wearing a suit. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be doing a tri  this weekend where the water temp will be about 75 F(24 C). Most people will be wearing a wet suit even though at these temps there is no real justification for thermal protection. They are being worn strictly as a floatation device which gives the advantage to weaker swimmers such as myself. Unless there is an actual need for colder water I tend to think they should be banned, even though it is people such as myself who benefit most using a wet suit. That’s just my opinion. What do others think.

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have you ever swam an hour in 68 degree water? you’ll probably need a 30 minute hot shower to raise your body temp back up- especially if the air temperature is cool-

San Francisco bay is just below 65 and after a short 30 min swim, I’m severely affected for the next hour.  It certainly wouldn’t be a good idea to set me loose with a bicycle.   I’m not sure I see the point of the complaints here.  Wetsuits are: 1) safer – they float 2) faster – esp for the slower ones (like me) 3) cheap enough – if you don’t want to spend $400, you can get good new ones for $200, and used ones are out there.  Or rent them. I know a buddy that dives deep in Lake Superior (40F) wearing a pair of shorts.  Doesn’t mean that everyone else will want to or should do it. — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

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People use the wetsuits for the flotation aid. I did the first NYC Triathlon last weekend where water temperatures were around 75 F. EVERYBODY wore a wetsuit. The funny part was that the current was so fast that swim times were around 13 minutes (1500 mts). I think that was most the time lost on that race on getting out of the wetsuit at T1 than the minimal advantage on wearing it that day. One for us, the ones who think that wetsuit should be banned in not-cold waters.

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Maybe it’s just ’cause I’m a Florida boy, but 65 is COLD! How ’bout allowing wetsuits at about 72 or below? I think there’s actually a risk of overheating when the temp is up around 78 or higher on a long swim. I swam without a wetsuit in 68 degree water, and that really felt cold to me. Tom "wimpy Florida boy who can’t handle cold, but can run when the temp and humidity are both 95" Henderson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with you.  I am a poor swimmer, but cold water is no problem.  I have raced Olympic distance races in 65 F water with no wetsuit, and had no problem, and I am a skinny dude.  Wetsuits just make this expensive sport even more so, because if you are trying to place well and all your opponents have wetsuits, you better have one too or you are giving the race away.  I say, wetsuits only for temperatures 65 or below or at highest 68 (which is ten degrees below what it is now). I do not compare wetsuit use to fancy bikes, since you must have a bike to do a triathlon, so there is no reason to restrict what kind you have. Nobody needs a wetsuit, except in a few cases (escape from Alcatraz) so there is no reason not to severely restrict their use.

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Well I remember a time when the wetsuit use/don’t use temp was 72F and the water temp was taken an hour or so before the race, I can remember doing a number of tri’s in the early 90’s without one.  I think it really became a liability issue with the race directors.  For a while if the water temp was over 72 you could still ware a wetsuit but you were not eligible for prizes if you chose to ware one.  Maybe they didn’t want to be put in the position of discouraging something that could be considered a "safety device"  Any race directors from the early days out there would be better off commenting.  Also the old TriFed was involved on this issue. I remember doing the old Lake Sunapee, NH race and the water was mid 60’s and going to the local surf shop and buying my first one.  Felt sort of sorry for those without one Just my .02 Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be doing a tri  this weekend where the water temp will be about 75 F(24 C). Most people will be wearing a wet suit even though at these temps there is no real justification for thermal protection. They are being worn strictly as a floatation device which gives the advantage to weaker swimmers such as myself. Unless there is an actual need for colder water I tend to think they should be banned, even though it is people such as myself who benefit most using a wet suit. That’s just my opinion. What do others think.

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All of this came to a head after the rather infamous 1992 Tri-Fed National Championship in Cleveland.  The standard at the time was 72 degrees F;  if it was that or above, wet suits were not permitted.  The race director (one Jack Caress) claimed to have measured the water in accordance with the rule and found it to be 72 degrees.  But it was later established that he was not telling the truth, and that the real temperature was closer to 67 or 68 degrees. The result was about as close to a major catastrophe as this sport has ever come.  A large number of athletes (especially the older, and slower, ones) developed severe hypothermia.  Some had to be rescued from the swim itself, while a number of others experienced the dangers of trying to ride a bike while effectively simulating the symptoms of inebriation. In the furor and even outrage that followed the event, Tri-Fed appointed a committee of medical experts to examine the issue.  It was chaired, if I remember correctly, by Dr. T. K. Miller of Roanoke – who is still active with USAT yet today.  In examining the scientific literature, they discovered that in water temperatures below 78 degrees, the human body began experiencing creeping hypothermia even while exercising at anaerobic threshold.  They also learned that the swimming world had already discovered this fact, and that’s why the pools at most major swim programs are set somewhere in the 79-80 degree range.  How many of you regularly arrive for swim practice, and sit by the edge of the pool, shivering in anticipation? In setting the new standard, the committee also had to look at the people most at risk.  Especially older athletes, who have a decreased ability to adapt to colder temperatures.  So, they decided that they couldn’t afford to err on the low side;  the risk of liability would just be too great (not to mention the threat to human life).  Remember, however:  if you don’t like the rule, you don’t have to wear the wetsuit. Lew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I remember a time when the wetsuit use/don’t use temp was 72F and the water temp was taken an hour or so before the race, I can remember doing a number of tri’s in the early 90’s without one.  I think it really became a liability issue with the race directors.  For a while if the water temp was over 72 you could still ware a wetsuit but you were not eligible for prizes if you chose to ware one.  Maybe they didn’t want to be put in the position of discouraging something that could be considered a "safety device"  Any race directors from the early days out there would be better off commenting.  Also the old TriFed was involved on this issue. I remember doing the old Lake Sunapee, NH race and the water was mid 60’s and going to the local surf shop and buying my first one.  Felt sort of sorry for those without one Just my .02 Wayne I’ll be doing a tri  this weekend where the water temp will be about 75 F(24 C). Most people will be wearing a wet suit even though at these temps there is no real justification for thermal protection. They are being worn strictly as a floatation device which gives the advantage to weaker swimmers such as myself. Unless there is an actual need for colder water I tend to think they should be banned, even though it is people such as myself who benefit most using a wet suit. That’s just my opinion. What do others think.

Response:

I’ll be doing a tri  this weekend where the water temp will be about 75 F(24 C). Most people will be wearing a wet suit even though at these temps there is no real justification for thermal protection. They are being worn strictly as a floatation device which gives the advantage to weaker swimmers such as myself. Unless there is an actual need for colder water I tend to think they should be banned, even though it is people such as myself who benefit most using a wet suit. That’s just my opinion. What do others think.

Response:

I agree with you.  I am a poor swimmer, but cold water is no problem.  I have raced Olympic distance races in 65 F water with no wetsuit, and had no problem, and I am a skinny dude.  Wetsuits just make this expensive sport even more so, because if you are trying to place well and all your opponents have wetsuits, you better have one too or you are giving the race away.  I say, wetsuits only for temperatures 65 or below or at highest 68 (which is ten degrees below what it is now). I do not compare wetsuit use to fancy bikes, since you must have a bike to do a triathlon, so there is no reason to restrict what kind you have. Nobody needs a wetsuit, except in a few cases (escape from Alcatraz) so there is no reason not to severely restrict their use.

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As one of the swimmers in the NYC Tri that got swept under the barge, I was hugely grateful for the wetsuit.  It very likely saved my life, since I was on the verge of passing out and it helped me float to the surface and remin there until I received assistance.  (BTW, I am not a weak swimmer…just got caught too far out on the barge and got pushed under by other swimmers.) So, I am beginning to conclude that for safety purposes they make a great deal of sense. Sorry about that all you macho folks…I am happy to have worn one and plan to continue.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People use the wetsuits for the flotation aid. I did the first NYC Triathlon last weekend where water temperatures were around 75 F. EVERYBODY wore a wetsuit. The funny part was that the current was so fast that swim times were around 13 minutes (1500 mts). I think that was most the time lost on that race on getting out of the wetsuit at T1 than the minimal advantage on wearing it that day. One for us, the ones who think that wetsuit should be banned in not-cold waters.

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I am fair on the swim for my age group 49 years old, around  21 minutes for 1500 meters but I still feel that wetsuit should be allowed at any temperture because of the safety factor. I have been in a triathlon back in 1987 when a young strong swimmer didn’t make it. As far as the cost it’s really small when you spread it over time, my last wetsuit lasted 10 years at $250. Our sport can be expenise but if you, a friend or love one has an accident this is pretty cheap.

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<snip and that’s why the pools at most major swim programs are set somewhere in the 79-80 degree range.  How many of you regularly arrive for swim practice, and sit by the edge of the pool, shivering in anticipation?

I was all set to agree with others that the temp. should be lowered for a min. for wetsuits to be allowed.  But you make a very good point here.  It’ll be 90 degrees (outside) and I’ll still sit at the edge of the pool for 10 minutes dreading the plunge into 80 degree water.  Then again I am a little pathetic with cold of any sort. Remember, however:  if you don’t like the rule, you don’t have to wear the wetsuit.

Yeah, but in my case the loss could be several minutes.  But again as you say 79 is pretty reseonable now I think about it. Tim buaidh no bas

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Question:

i just wanted to congratulate koz, for putting on another spectaculr race. after all the grief he got from fiesta del sol,  i thought kudos were in order.  not one glich, that i could see.  excellent swim(warm water, and like glass), challenging bike course( nothing like getting the lactic acid built up within the first 3 miles) and a nice flat run. would have been nice to get some water on the bike, but at only 30k, my one bottle wasn’t dry until 27k.  this race continues to be one  of the highlights of the summer.  looking forward to more. todd sandiego

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Todd do you know if they are going to post the results on the internet? Yes it was a great race.  Mike Tucson, Az

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I agree, Todd.  Well, except for the swim – but that’s a personal issue.  It all went very smoothly; started on time and all that.  Didn’t care much for the parking being 1/2 mile from the transtion area and the finish line being 5 miles away.  But in that location I suppose it’s the best they can do.  OTH, I only waited a few minutes ( less than 5) to get on a shuttle bus. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i just wanted to congratulate koz, for putting on another spectaculr race. after all the grief he got from fiesta del sol,  i thought kudos were in order.  not one glich, that i could see.  excellent swim(warm water, and like glass), challenging bike course( nothing like getting the lactic acid built up within the first 3 miles) and a nice flat run.

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Didn’t care much for the parking being 1/2 mile from the transtion area and the finish line being 5 miles away.  But in that location I suppose it’s the best they can do.  OTH, I only waited a few minutes ( less than 5) to get on a shuttle bus.

the distance from the parking ;lot is a nice way to check your bike. and how about those plush charter buses?  much better than the school buses from last year. todd sandiego

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the distance from the parking ; lot is a nice way to check your bike.

It’s more of a drawback for spectators (like my wife) who just want to hang around one area and watch the race. and how about those plush charter buses?  much better than the school buses from last year.

I wasn’t there last year but I heard the shuttle service wasn’t as good.  The buses were nice, but when I get that comfotable, I want someone to bring me a drink and start the movie.  :-) Larry

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do you know if they are going to post the results on the internet?

They are supposed to be on: www.racegate.com   Tomorrow.                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

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I only waited a few minutes ( less than 5) to get on a shuttle bus.

I had to leave early ( after the obligatory massage) and I waited at least 25 minutes for the bus. I would have been happier with a prompt school bus. Everything else about the race was awesome, like Todd said.                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

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I can’t find anything resembling results on this website.  What am I doing wrong?? Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – do you know if they are going to post the results on the internet? They are supposed to be on: www.racegate.com   Tomorrow.                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

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Someone posted results at: seach.pacific-coast.com/sdit i think that is the right site,  it’s from memory and that seems to fail me everyonce and a while. todd sandiego

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Thanks, Todd – I found ‘em. I must have been running right next to Steve Fredricks and didn’t even realize it. That url is search.pacific-coast.com, though. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone posted results at: seach.pacific-coast.com/sdit i think that is the right site,  it’s from memory and that seems to fail me everyonce and a while. todd sandiego

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I must have been running right next to Steve Fredricks and didn’t even realize it.

Larry, Why didn’t you say "Hi" or something. Seriously, I have been thinking about putting my screen name on the back of my singlet, I seem unable to find RSTers at races.                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

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Question:

Aha !! New RST event – iron(ic)man !! Sorry.
Cheers
Barry    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser – FREE –

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sarcasm doesn’t seem to translate well in the written medium.  i’m not the most humorless nor the most uneducated guy,  i feel i have a pretty good grasp of what i am reading.  maybe you should try irony next time,  seems to work better.  sorry that i didn’t get the joke:^) toddzi sandiego

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Irony… what’s that ??  Oh yeah… I think that’s like… making a fortune writing a song about irony, that doesn’t actually seem to contain any… ?? I don’t even think there’s an emoticon for irony… is that ironic ?? — MB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sarcasm doesn’t seem to translate well in the written medium.  i’m not the most humorless nor the most uneducated guy,  i feel i have a pretty good grasp of what i am reading.  maybe you should try irony next time,  seems to work better.  sorry that i didn’t get the joke:^) toddzi sandiego

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SNIP He and Joan Crock, and Malcolm Forbes run in the same social circles you know.

I thought Malcom Forbes was dead… Philip Squire MCP IM http://w1.116.telia.com/~u11602093/home.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -By the way Dan,  I think you and I need to go for a ride together soon, or at least go get a Chingadera and a 32oz Coke.  I still have the big mug you bought me.  Will you call me or shall I call you? Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

Response:

Hey Todd,  What QRMan and I do on RST we do because we love this sport. Many years ago when Empfield was a partner in De Soto Sport, and he and I shared a messy office, he told me, "Emilio, no matter how big and successful De Soto Sport ever gets, never forget your roots."  Those roots to me are what I am still into, Triathlon. We love laughing too.  We never get tired of getting nice letters to us and about our products. Rick,  be careful because Empfield will not give you anything else if you disclose his philanthropic habits.  He and Joan Crock, and Malcolm Forbes run in the same social circles you know. By the way Dan,  I think you and I need to go for a ride together soon, or at least go get a Chingadera and a 32oz Coke.  I still have the big mug you bought me.  Will you call me or shall I call you? Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

Response:

Perhaps we need to publish an emoticon list and insist that posters use one of these things at the end of every sentence. — MB   ;-J   (winking tongue-in-cheek  – I don’t think it’s even on my list)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’ve noticed two posts, from jason and rick swanger, that knocked and mocked : people for thanking and complimenting desoto and qr.  maybe they are trolling : and i shouldn’t be bothered by their cynicism.  but what is wrong with being Um, I was being sarcastis. Talk to the hand…. Jason

Response:

    Sometimes you think something is funny then later in retrospect it doesn’t seem as humorous, maybe just down right sarcastic.  Again, my apologies to you and the group.

hey! i’m basking in the glory here!  and yes, sarcasm is completely acceptable in such moments.  that isn’t what upsets me.  but as you know, the thrill in giving is for it to be done in secret.  now you’ve blown it for me by alerting the world to my largesse.  i expect that the other three guys i’ve donated kidneys to will come out now as well. qrman

Response:

wow- that’s what sarcasm is?  i really don’t know what happened to my sense of humor.  maybe i need to increase my morning caffeine.  no apology needed. toddzi san diego

Response:

My sincere apology Toddzi,     Sometimes you think something is funny then later in retrospect it doesn’t seem as humorous, maybe just down right sarcastic.  Again, my apologies to you and the group. Sincerely, Rick Swanger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed two posts, from jason and rick swanger, that knocked and mocked people for thanking and complimenting desoto and qr.  maybe they are trolling and i shouldn’t be bothered by their cynicism.  but what is wrong with being appreciative of two guys who are actually contributing and making things bettter for others?   i’ve written one post complimenting emilio and one thanking dan for what they’ve added to my hobby, and both times have been accused of kissing ass and digging for schwag.  it’s so easy and popular to bitch and criticize in our culture, when there is an opportunity to say something positive, i think it NEEDS to be said.  plus, what exactly have jason and rick done to contribute? what’s their pedigree and where do they get off judging every one else’s responses? toddzi sandiego

Response:

I’ve noticed two posts, from jason and rick swanger, that knocked and mocked people for thanking and complimenting desoto and qr.  maybe they are trolling and i shouldn’t be bothered by their cynicism.  but what is wrong with being appreciative of two guys who are actually contributing and making things bettter for others?   i’ve written one post complimenting emilio and one thanking dan for what they’ve added to my hobby, and both times have been accused of kissing ass and digging for schwag.  it’s so easy and popular to bitch and criticize in our culture, when there is an opportunity to say something positive, i think it NEEDS to be said.  plus, what exactly have jason and rick done to contribute? what’s their pedigree and where do they get off judging every one else’s responses? toddzi sandiego

Response:

Question:

I would say that, without a doubt, running is the best background for triathlon. It helps develop your lungs as well as your tolerance for painful workouts (not that swim workouts are painless–they’re just not pounding on your legs). This isn’t to say that a swimmer can’t become a great triathlete (I know they’re out there…), but considereing the proportional representation of each discipline in a triathlon, a strong swimmer (assuming he/she’s a weaker runner) is at a comparative disadvantage (unless it’s a draft-legal race, where getting out of the water earlier makes a big difference). Of course, maybe this is my opinion simply because I’m a crappy swimmer…  Jim

Response:

I agree, Jim. Clearly swimming is not the favored sport, for all the points you mentioned, but mainly that, proportionally the swim-leg is too short. I have a very hard time determining who is at a greater advantage:  the cyclist or the runner.  I think there is good case to be made for either. However, I think with cycling, overcoming wind resistance is a big factor. Basically, you have to be a LOT better rider in order to get a substantially better speed, because once you get up into 20 mph+, most of your effort is wasted on overcoming the wind. So, I’d have to say that it’s the run that’s the favoured leg, Badman notwithstanding.

Response:

Hi Wade – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : but hey, no-one ever : won or lost an Ironman in the water! "ever" is an awfully long time.  Just a cursory glance shows: 1998 Hawaii Ironman Pro Women: 1 Badmann, Natascha    :56:02  5:13:24  3:14:50  09:24:16 2 Bowden, Lori        1:01:43  5:18:33  3:07:03  09:27:19                         -5:41                       -3:03 1996 Hawaii Pro Women: 1 Paula Newby-Fraser     :55:30  5:01:34  3:09:45  09:06:49 2 Natascha Badmann      1:00:41  4:53:47  3:16:51  09:11:19                           -5:11                       -4:30

Yes point (half) taken. These and other results do not really give a fair indication of a "whole" Ironman. What I mean by this is, take a look at the difference in times in each discipline for the top ten overall finishers. For example, in 1998:                 Fastest         Slowest         Difference Pro Men:  Swim           0:48:48         0:55:12         0:06:24  Bike           4:44:39         4:58:02         0:13:23  Run            2:44:58         3:08:34         0:23:36 Pro Women:  Swim           0:49:11         1:01:43         0:12:32  Bike           5:13:24         5:37:43         0:24:19  Run            3:04:02         3:38:54         0:34:52 That is to say, you could be the slowest swimmer and slowest runner in the whole of the top ten, but if you are the fastest runner then you are likely to win or be very near the top. The race definitely favours those who can run the best after the swim/bike. All of that said, however, the race is normally won by the athlete who has the best overall combination of the three rather than a stellar effort in a single discipline. Which just goes to show that their are lies, damn lies and statistics. Kind Regards Paul (PB) Wilson "International Man of Mystery"

Response:

I never did Total Immersion, but here’s a trick I picked up in my swimming days.  Try breath-hold swims (swimming a fixed difference without allowing yourself to breath), starting with 25s without breathing then moving up to 50s (those are much harder, trust me).  These are mostly sprinter’s drills, since they work you anaerobically by the end (oxygen-debt, big-time in the 50s), but after doing them a bit you’ll feel the difference a smooth, long stroke makes as opposed to the "thrashing" that so many swimmers do to try to go fast.  A few of these (no more than 200-400 yards) a couple of times should be enough to get the idea.  Don’t try any farther than a 50, though. A girl I knew did a 100 on a dare, then passed out for two hours afterwards. Anyways, just passing along some swimming lore.  Best of luck in 99′ Paul Berman

It’s good sound advice Paul. An alternative solution is a special snorkel that has the pipe going out in front of your face instead of the side of your head. I forgot who makes them right now (mine was hand crafted by my coach but I’ve seen them in triathlon magazines) but this will eliminate your need to breathe out your sides, concentrating on making your stroke symmetrical and smooth. I would guess that the snorkel could be used for "overexaggeration of your glide and extension" exercises with ease also. I know not many people use this type of snorkel, but for me it’s a pretty effective tool for keeping my swim stroke in line. Good luck,                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Wow !! I wish I could get there … My stroke count is 16-17 for 25yds. Consistently. But more like 90 seconds per 100… 67 sec per 100 for a mile, that’s sub 20 minutes ! Not in my wildest dreams.. One tip, I learned this from some Olympians during a clinic. Practice overexagerating your glide and extension. Try to cross the pool in the absolute fewest strokes possible without sinking. See if you can get under 7. ( My PB! ) you get a tremendous feel for streamlining. Al Kormesser

I never did Total Immersion, but here’s a trick I picked up in my swimming days.  Try breath-hold swims (swimming a fixed difference without allowing yourself to breath), starting with 25s without breathing then moving up to 50s (those are much harder, trust me).  These are mostly sprinter’s drills, since they work you anaerobically by the end (oxygen-debt, big-time in the 50s), but after doing them a bit you’ll feel the difference a smooth, long stroke makes as opposed to the "thrashing" that so many swimmers do to try to go fast.  A few of these (no more than 200-400 yards) a couple of times should be enough to get the idea.  Don’t try any farther than a 50, though. A girl I knew did a 100 on a dare, then passed out for two hours afterwards.  Anyways, just passing along some swimming lore.  Best of luck in 99′ Paul Berman

Response:

I know the key to distance swimming is efficiency, efficiency and efficiency.  I’m just wondering how efficient most people are… For 25 yds: 17-19 strokes (approx 9 stroke cycles) in training [33-36 sec per 50 yds] Ave 67 sec per 100 yds in a mile race and usually 19 strokes per length (18 strokes during a really good race).

Wow !! I wish I could get there … My stroke count is 16-17 for 25yds. Consistently. But more like 90 seconds per 100… 67 sec per 100 for a mile, that’s sub 20 minutes ! Not in my wildest dreams.. One tip, I learned this from some Olympians during a clinic. Practice overexagerating your glide and extension. Try to cross the pool in the absolute fewest strokes possible without sinking. See if you can get under 7. ( My PB! ) you get a tremendous feel for streamlining. Al Kormesser

Response:

I know the key to distance swimming is efficiency, efficiency and efficiency.  I’m just wondering how efficient most people are…

For 25 yds: 17-19 strokes (approx 9 stroke cycles) in training [33-36 sec per 50 yds] Ave 67 sec per 100 yds in a mile race and usually 19 strokes per length (18 strokes during a really good race). Find myself CONSTANTLY working on dropping the stroke count.  I count the strokes I take for at least half of the freestyle I do in each workout.  Can get down to 15 strokes per length pretty easily but lose the speed – 17 seems to be my most efficient s.p.l. currently but would like to get lower! -hug

Response:

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was beginning to wonder how he got stroke counting for athletes out of that other site!  I have only recently begun the stroke counting thing myself, having read about it on the excellent Total Immersion web site

(www.totalimmersion.com). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Better check that URL, Paul %^).  Try www.totalimmersion.net instead. Take Care, Zack Jones

Response:

: but hey, no-one ever : won or lost an Ironman in the water! "ever" is an awfully long time.  Just a cursory glance shows: 1998 Hawaii Ironman Pro Women: 1 Badmann, Natascha    :56:02  5:13:24  3:14:50  09:24:16 2 Bowden, Lori        1:01:43  5:18:33  3:07:03  09:27:19                         -5:41                       -3:03 1997 Hawaii M 25-29: 1 Tobias Behle          52:17  5:05:08  3:06:50   9:04:15 2 Troy Jacobson         59:48  5:02:34  3:07:09   9:09:31                         -7:31                       -5:16 1997 Hawaii M 35-39: 1 Daniel Dethier         58:17  5:08:27  3:12:12   9:18:56 2 Michael Hagen        1:00:29  5:13:23  3:06:12   9:20:04                          -2:12                       -1:08 1996 Hawaii Pro Women: 1 Paula Newby-Fraser     :55:30  5:01:34  3:09:45  09:06:49 2 Natascha Badmann      1:00:41  4:53:47  3:16:51  09:11:19                           -5:11                       -4:30 1996 Hawaii W 30-34: 1 Donna Kay-Ness        1:03:39  5:16:26  3:42:19  10:02:24 2 Kara Hughes           1:06:08  5:21:57  3:34:49  10:02:54                           -2:29                       -0:30 1996 Hawaii M 50-59: 1 Bruce Buchanan        1:06:17  5:52:40  4:24:32  11:23:29 2 Toyomi Taki           1:19:05  6:11:40  3:56:44  11:27:29                          -12:48                       -4:00

Response:

 I have only recently begun the stroke counting thing myself, having read about it on the excellent Total Immersion web site (www.totalimmersion.com).

Better check that URL, Paul %^).  Try www.totalimmersion.net instead. Take Care, Zack Jones

Response:

Hi Sal When I do my distance swims (1 mile), I average about 48 sec per 50 yd lap taking about 18 strokes per length (25 yd).  (NOTE: when I push off of the wall I usually come up at or right before 5 yard flags)The lowest I can get my strokes down to is 16 strokes per lap, but I can’t keep that up for more than one or two hundred meters.

  I have only recently begun the stroke counting thing myself, having read about it on the excellent Total Immersion web site (www.totalimmersion.com). On my long swims I take – on average – 17-18 strokes per lap. Like you, I can get to 16, but not very "efficiently" (ie, small glides between each stroke instead of a smooth stroke). With drills I aim to keep reducing my stroke count one at a time. As for speed, I travel at around 55-58 sec per 50m. Slow, but hey, no-one ever won or lost an Ironman in the water! Good luck with your training Regards, PB Paul (PB) Wilson

Response:

I know the key to distance swimming is efficiency, efficiency and efficiency.  I’m just wondering how efficient most people are… When I do my distance swims (1 mile), I average about 48 sec per 50 yd lap taking about 18 strokes per length (25 yd).  (NOTE: when I push off of the wall I usually come up at or right before 5 yard flags)The lowest I can get my strokes down to is 16 strokes per lap, but I can’t keep that up for more than one or two hundred meters.  I was wondering about how many strokes do you guys take per link (25 yd) on your distance swims.  Could you also please tell me your average time per lap or your best mile time… I just want to know where I stand as far as triathletes…  so I know how far I have to go. Thanks!! —  Salvador Santolucito III

Response:

I swim in a 25 meter pool so that may account for some difference, but I can’t seem to get below 20 strokes per lap (usually I’m at 21).  I wish I could cover the distance in 16-18 strokes.  Oh well, maybe I should make consistent sub-20 stroke lengths one goals for this year. Swimming like a fish (a flounder!), Yakabo

Response:

Sal, It depends on the day, but my "norms" is as follows: 25 yard  – 13-14 strokes 50 yard — 40-42 seconds Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know the key to distance swimming is efficiency, efficiency and efficiency.  I’m just wondering how efficient most people are… When I do my distance swims (1 mile), I average about 48 sec per 50 yd lap taking about 18 strokes per length (25 yd).  (NOTE: when I push off of the wall I usually come up at or right before 5 yard flags)The lowest I can get my strokes down to is 16 strokes per lap, but I can’t keep that up for more than one or two hundred meters.  I was wondering about how many strokes do you guys take per link (25 yd) on your distance swims.  Could you also please tell me your average time per lap or your best mile time… I just want to know where I stand as far as triathletes…  so I know how far I have to go. Thanks!! —  Salvador Santolucito III

Response:

Question:

Try Sally Edwards "Heart Zone Training" Phil Deneau

Response:

: Try Sally Edwards : "Heart Zone Training" I’m curious as to what the consensus is on this book.  I recently picked it up and found it not worth much.  Edwards spends chapter after chapter repeating the same basic principles in new patterns without adding anything substantively new — particularly for the serious/competitive athlete. I kept waiting for the real meat of how to train with a HRM or how it could help me improve, and I must say that I didn’t find it here (nor have I found it elsewhere — any other suggestions?). *Dana

Response:

        It has been a few years since I skimmed it and was not impressed.  This was before my degree and work in the field.  I think I’ll read it again since you bring it up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Try Sally Edwards : "Heart Zone Training" I’m curious as to what the consensus is on this book.  I recently picked it up and found it not worth much.  Edwards spends chapter after chapter repeating the same basic principles in new patterns without adding anything substantively new — particularly for the serious/competitive athlete. I kept waiting for the real meat of how to train with a HRM or how it could help me improve, and I must say that I didn’t find it here (nor have I found it elsewhere — any other suggestions?). *Dana

Response:

There is a hole chapter for the serious/competive athlete.  I haven’t read that chapter because thats not me.  She also mentions a newsletter in the book.  Plus her email address is in the book drop her a line to see  where she might point you. Sally had an older book called too but the title escapes me; this one was published last year. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Try Sally Edwards : "Heart Zone Training" I’m curious as to what the consensus is on this book.  I recently picked it up and found it not worth much.  Edwards spends chapter after chapter repeating the same basic principles in new patterns without adding anything substantively new — particularly for the serious/competitive athlete. I kept waiting for the real meat of how to train with a HRM or how it could help me improve, and I must say that I didn’t find it here (nor have I found it elsewhere — any other suggestions?). *Dana

Response:

: There is a hole chapter for the serious/competive athlete.  I haven’t : read that chapter because thats not me. : I’m curious as to what the consensus is on this book.  I recently picked : it up and found it not worth much.  Edwards spends chapter after chapter : repeating the same basic principles in new patterns without adding : anything substantively new — particularly for the serious/competitive : athlete. I kept waiting for the real meat of how to train with a HRM or : how it could help me improve, and I must say that I didn’t find it here : (nor have I found it elsewhere — any other suggestions?). Yes, but the chapter on the competitive athlete is nothing more than another rehashing of the same points she makes repetitively in the rest of the book: change the numbers and you’ve got the same thing, with no substantive _training_ information or practical pointers.  It’s as if she just cut and pasted each chapter with slight tweaks in the numbers. *Dana who got a lot more cranky and critical about poor writing after going through her Ph.D. comprehensive exams

Response:

I have recently taken the plunge and purchased a Polar HRM. While I have experienced a fair amount of success during 20 years of running and triathlon competition, I thought it was time to finally get one. Are there any websites that can help with the following information: – How to determine Max HR with home testing? – How to calculate the various training zones( aerobic, anaerobic, etc . .)? – What workouts are best for elavating AT and how to make the best use of the HRM during these workouts? I checked the Polar site and there was not much there. Thank you. Steve Fleck

Response:

Question:

I disagree with you I was there and this years Escape of Alcatraz was disorganizied and dangerous, cars in the bike and running courses and the course sucked compared to other years.

Response:

Also does anyone know if all Excapes were this disorganized before? This was my first one, and I was surprized at the misdirections given troughout the race.  My main peeves:

Remember that the “Escape” you participated in had the same name as its predecessors, but it was really a different race.  Dave Horning organized the first 15 escapes, but not the most recent one.  He did organize the Alcatraz XVI Triathlon last June, and it was extremely well run.  None of the bike or security problems that you mentioned occurred, although we never touched the rock, either.  The post-race food was good, too—bagels, oranges, and some free samples of Stoker bars & low-fat burritos. BTW: For you Alcatraz fans, here’s an interesting story that even further reinforces my support for Dave.  I got a call in early August from a man from Zelionople, PA (just North of Pittsurgh).   He had been trying to find out more about the Escape from Alcatraz Triathlon, but all he could reach was an answering machine.  So, he called Dave Horning.  If I’d been Dave, I would have said “I have no comment about Escape from Alcatraz” and hung up.  Instead, Dave had apparently seen my race report posted on RST, and gave this guy my number.  We had a nice chat about water temperatures, etc.   Randy Bryant Computer Science Dept. Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bryant/

Response:

Question:

David. When you’re finished e-mail the story to me and I’ll post it for you.  I’m sure a lot of people would like to read it. If they don’t they can always ignore it. Congratulations. Bob

Response:

I’ve written a long-winded description of the first two legs of my first international-distance triahtlon, but my service provider’s news server refuses to post it. (An editorial comment I suspect; suffice to say I am not Tricia Richter, the writer or the triathlete.) Should any of you still have an interest in reading such rantings, I’d be happy to send it by e-mail. Here’s a sample, so you can decide whether you want to commit the bandwidth: The International: Self-Deception Made Good I

Question:

I heard, that she wants to visit the olympic games, but triathlon becomes olympic in Sydney(2000). So, she starts to be a runner. Jens

Response:

According to Triathlete french edition, she switched to running after a Wellington triathlon, where she gave up because of the cold water. Riccardo

– The started at the World Championchips in Goeteborg, Sweden, last week where she finished 8.place at the Marathon. ***** Don’t cry – Work! (R. Goetz) *****

Response:

At the WC athletics, marathon for women, one of the participants was S. Krolik, Germany. Does anyone know if this is Sonja Krolik, who was a succesfull triathlete some 2 years ago ?

YES If so, why did she switch to running ?

Why did Lance Armstrong switch to bicycle racing only? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regards, Michel.

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: At the WC athletics, marathon for women, one of the : participants was S. Krolik, Germany. : Does anyone know if this is Sonja Krolik, who was : a succesfull triathlete some 2 years ago ? : If so, why did she switch to running ? : Regards, Michel. Yes, it is Sonja Krolik, who had some quarrel with the DTU because of her leanness and then decided to switch to running. Now that she has qualified for the olympic games by her marathon time achieved in Goeteborg, she said that she would never switch back to triathlon. That’s what I’ve read in the newspapers. Regards         Meinolf

Response:

According to Triathlete french edition, she switched to running after a Wellington triathlon, where she gave up because of the cold water. Riccardo

Response:

At the WC athletics, marathon for women, one of the participants was S. Krolik, Germany. Does anyone know if this is Sonja Krolik, who was a succesfull triathlete some 2 years ago ? If so, why did she switch to running ? Regards, Michel.

That is entirily  correct. Sonia finished 8th in 2.35  something. You probably won’t believe it ,but she switched to running for the same reason LAnce armstrong switched to cycling: the money. Ivar

Response:

At the WC athletics, marathon for women, one of the participants was S. Krolik, Germany. Does anyone know if this is Sonja Krolik, who was a succesfull triathlete some 2 years ago ? If so, why did she switch to running ? Regards, Michel.

Response:

At the WC athletics, marathon for women, one of the participants was S. Krolik, Germany. Does anyone know if this is Sonja Krolik, who was a succesfull triathlete some 2 years ago ? If so, why did she switch to running ?

Yes, the Sonja Krolik who finished seventh in the World Championships marathon last Saturday is the same who was three times the European triathlon champion. She ran the Berlin Marathon in both 1993 and 1994, the lst time fast enough to qualify for Germany’s world athletics championships team. This performance sets herself up well for selection to the 1996 Olympic team. Another triathlete, Carole Montgomery, represented Canada in the 10,000 meters. But she had an extremely poor race, finishing 14th in her heat in 34-minutes-plus. Katherine Williams

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Question:

writes: Look for this year’s men’s winner to come from way behind off the bike.

Consider the possibility of:<< OK, ok, since we are all throwing opinions around here…here’s mine. Olivier Bernhard– nope, a one-hit wonder (and he had his hit in Zofingen) Alec Rukosuev — great runner, true, but sorry  he can’t come from *that* far behind off the bike. Paul Huddle: Top 10–one of the nicest guys in the sport but an overrated talent Jeff Devlin:  He can be dangerous Greg Welch: My top pick Dittrich: top five Zack: top five Pauli: Armed and extremely dangerous Dave Scott: Last time we’ll ever see him, (but we’ll certainly see a lot of him), no matter how he does. Maybe 10th — or  up to 1/2 hour behind winner. Women Paula Newby-Fraser—easy win Karen Smyers–second Wendy Igraham– best year ever, third Heather Fuhr — the surpise–4th I can just picture the "I-told-you-so" flames after Ironman….

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OK, here’s my guess: 1.  Greg Welch 2.  Pauli Kiuru 3.  Jurgen Zack 4.  Wolfgang Dittrich 5.  Paul Huddle 1.  Paula Newby-Fraser 2.  Karen Smyers 3.  Wendy Ingraham This is assuming Erin Baker isn’t running (is that correct).  If she does, I’m hoping she’ll win or at worst place second. — Timothy Gotsick

Response:

<<I can just picture the "I-told-you-so" flames after Ironman…. Why wait?  Flame you, JJ, you flaming #%!#$!! You’re all so unimaginative.  Am I the only guy who’ll go out on a limb? It’s easy to shoot down my picks, as they are unproven (at least it’s easy now, JJ, we’ll talk the evening of the 15th). You know, there has occasionally been a pool going on over there.  I’ll have to contact Mark Montgomery for the rules, but it’s something like you have to pick your top fifteen men and ten women, and maybe you get points for how many of yours are actually in the $$, and maybe some bonus points for picking them in order, I don’t remember. I’ll find out the rules and post them, unless somebody smart, like Brug, can post his idea of a useful set. Now, hmmmm, what should everyone have to ante? QRman

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writes: You’re all so unimaginative.  Am I the only guy who’ll go out on a limb?

Here’s an imaginative list (from a girl, not a guy) : ) 1. Andy Carlson 2. Garrett McCarthy 3. Jeff Devlin 1. Karen Smyers 2. Erin Baker 3. PNF Hey, it’s the Ironman…..anything can happen!  I expect lots of juicy

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writes: <<Here’s an imaginative list (from a girl, not a guy) : ) 1. Andy Carlson 2. Garrett McCarthy 3. Jeff Devlin Yes, that’s an EXTREMELY imaginative list, I have to admit. QRman

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Now, hmmmm, what should everyone have to ante?

If we get enough people to "play", we could each kick in a titanium nipple. Or maybe a t-shirt … (or a donut). tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -QRman

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But then, I’m a bloody German…

                  ^^^^^^                   biking accident?  ;-) —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (303) 229-3117

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It’s easy to pick Kiuru after so many good finishes.  Let’s show some cajones here.  No German will win, as the Hawaiian men’s winner ALWAYS has the fastest run of the day, and that negates any German this year. Look for this year’s men’s winner to come from way behind off the bike. Consider the possibility of: Olivier Bernhard Alec Rukosuev Paul Huddle Jeff Devlin Greg Welch This group contains two of the top five, and probably the winner. Bernhard’s raced too many ultras or he would be a certain top five finisher. QRman

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<snip In any case, I hope it’s a close finish. The best coverage I’ve seen was  in ‘89 when they showed Mark Allen and Dave Scott running side by side,  with no commentary or music, just the sounds of their feet pounding the  Queen K and their breathing.

I recorded that race on videotape from Wide World of Sports and it is my personal favorite.  I usually watch it before I race to psych-up… David F. Monti

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1) Paula Newby-Fraser 2-50)  A bunch of guys. Now wouldn’t that just be too cool? — LSC

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:1) Paula Newby-Fraser :2-50)  A bunch of guys. How about this one: 1. Holger Lorenz (last year eigth) 2. Rob Barel (World Champion Long Distance) 3. Lothar Leder 4. Dave Scott 5. Scott Tinley But then, I’m a bloody German… —                             Ulrich Porsch             Wer spricht vom Siegen, "Ubersteh’n ist alles  

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: 1. Pauli Kiuru : 2. Wolfgang Dittrich : 3. Greg Welch – Any guesses as to Dave Scott’s finish?

: Also, what’s the latest on Christian Bustos? Is he racing or ….? – He is training, and plans to race next year.  I know his phys.

     therapist, who says Christian is progressing well. -RC : — : #                                                                           # : #       ||     || ..     ….    .|   |. |.”/’  |.”/’  ,..,   ….        #   : #       ||     ||, ||  .|…||   |     | ‘  //   ‘  //    ||  .|…||       #   : #       ||     ||  ||  ||        ’|   |’   //      //     ||  ||            #   : #      .||.   .||. ||.  ’|…’    ’.|.’  .//.’|  .//.’|  .||.  ’|…’       #   : #                                                        ,..,               #   : #          ’||’                                           ||                #   : #           ||       .–.    .–.,   .–.  .. …     .–.||                #   : #           ||     .|…|| .|   |. .|…||  ||  ||  .|    ||                #   : #           ||   . ||      ||   ‘| ||       ||  ||  ||    ||,   _           #   : #                               ||                                          #   :         LEAVE THE MONEY ON THE FRIDGE, AND HAVE A GOOD ONE!

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Anyway, I though it my be fun to get other triathletes’ tips for who will win the race. Being a Finn, I already know that Kuiru is the best bet, but you guys in The States may have other ideas. Anyway, I’ll leave you with my tip for the top 3 (for the men’s race as the women’s is never really that interesting.   (Not meant in a bad way).

Here’s who I *hope* finish in the top 3, in alphabetical order. Dave Scott Scott Tinley Greg Welch In any case, I hope it’s a close finish. The best coverage I’ve seen was in ‘89 when they showed Mark Allen and Dave Scott running side by side, with no commentary or music, just the sounds of their feet pounding the Queen K and their breathing. As far as the womens race, I hope PNF has a good race and somebody beats her just to make it interesting.                            _ <_         <               ___/o__    ( )/( )       /

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Well, IRONMAN is again close at hand. This year’s race should be historical as it is most likely that a non-American will win the race for the first time, especially since Mark Allen is not racing (It would really shit me though, if he decided to show up on the day. With that guy you just never really know!). Anyway, I though it my be fun to get other triathletes’ tips for who will win the race. Being a Finn, I already know that Kuiru is the best bet, but you guys in The States may have other ideas. Anyway, I’ll leave you with my tip for the top 3 (for the men’s race as the women’s is never really that interesting. (Not meant in a bad way). 1. Pauli Kiuru 2. Wolfgang Dittrich 3. Greg Welch Also, what’s the latest on Christian Bustos? Is he racing or ….? Good training to all. P.S. Just think, Teemu Vesala also won the Canadian Ironman. Pretty amazing when you think we only have about 5 million people, and a winter that would give a polar bear the shits. I guess it just means we Finns are going to take over the (triathlon) world!!  :-) — #                                                                           # #       ||     || ..     ….    .|   |. |.”/’  |.”/’  ,..,   ….        #   #       ||     ||, ||  .|…||   |     | ‘  //   ‘  //    ||  .|…||       #   #       ||     ||  ||  ||        ’|   |’   //      //     ||  ||            #   #      .||.   .||. ||.  ’|…’    ’.|.’  .//.’|  .//.’|  .||.  ’|…’       #   #                                                        ,..,               #   #          ’||’                                           ||                #   #           ||       .–.    .–.,   .–.  .. …     .–.||                #   #           ||     .|…|| .|   |. .|…||  ||  ||  .|    ||                #   #           ||   . ||      ||   ‘| ||       ||  ||  ||    ||,   _           #   #                               ||                                          #             LEAVE THE MONEY ON THE FRIDGE, AND HAVE A GOOD ONE!

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