Question:

In practical terms, this suggests that a 200 lb rider would only have 26% more aero drag force than a 100 lb rider moving at the same speed. Any idea how the actual data from races, wind tunnel tests, etc. correlate with this?

There’s certainly correlation from an anecdotal stanpoint. When’s the last time you saw a world-class sprinter who happened to be very slim? When the hill gets steep enough, it comes down to a pure power-to-weight (or more accurately, the abitility to produce power-to-weight) issue, and that’s when the scrawny climbers take over.  But even with superior power-to-weight, they are never the ones who dominate the time trials, due to their relative aerodynamic disadvantage over their girthier cousins. Lance isn’t human, so he doesn’t enter into the discussion…  ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

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I don’t agree with your "bigger engine" argument. The data I have seen indicates that "bigger engines" (a.k.a. – Clydesdales) finish AFTER the "skinny dudes" (anyone below a certain weight). Strength to weight ratios seem to dictate the fortunes of triathletes. Increasing strength (and the resulting muscle mass) could be considered a game of diminishing returns – at some point, the additional muscle mass negatively impacts athletic performance.  Although, prior to this, it is a good idea to gain that strength… especially to look good in that Speedo… Energy is energy, and it takes more energy to move more mass.  And, it takes even more energy for heavier athletes to climb hills and accelerate and decelerate. You are correct that a simple potential energy equation does not account for everything, but it accounts for a lot.  Obviously, simple energy methods are too simple, but potential/kinetic energy tells 60-80% of the story… and to us engineers, that is a reasonable approximation. Michael Fisher ETHOS Biomedical, LLC P.O. Box 10784 Blacksburg, VA  24062 540.961.0953 office 540.961.0974 fax 540.239.5114 cell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thus, the heavier of two athletes running a 200-foot hill is spending AT LEAST 14% more energy than the lighter athlete.  If the hill slows the heavier athlete more than the lighter athlete, the heavier runner could easily spend over 100% more energy than the lighter athlete. No surprises here – mass is mass.  But you didn’t spend any time considering the size of the motor.  A bigger person has a bigger engine, and larger energy stores.  We can’t just look at simple potential energy arguments. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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I don’t agree with your "bigger engine" argument. The data I have seen indicates that "bigger engines" (a.k.a. – Clydesdales) finish AFTER the "skinny dudes" (anyone below a certain weight).

The best of the Clydes place well in the overall competition, and I believe that the best of the triathletes over 200 don’t bother to compete in that division over their own AG.  And then the bulk of the Clydes are those with higher BF%s than is typical for the sport.  It’s no surprise that they will place slower times as a rule.  You would need to compare for like bf levels to make a justified conclusion. Hopefully you read the rest of the articles in the thread – for biking it is particularly suspect to measure energy consumption and performance based merely on weight.  Endurance running, otoh, definitely favors the most slender body type, though outside of the elite ranks I think it is a minor factor.  At 6′, 185 I was one of the bigger triathletes out there last year and running was my best leg.  If your legs get thrashed on the bike, your run is not going to be good.     Energy is energy, and it takes more energy to move more mass.  And, it takes even more energy for heavier athletes to climb hills and accelerate and decelerate.

you keep suggesting that the heavy athlete will decelerate – I think the muscleless rider is more likely to crack under the strain of a long hill. Again, it comes down to BF%, not absolute weight.  The guy with 10% will ‘feel’ lighter than the guy with 20%, regardless of the true weight.  And on the bike, the heavier one will have a higher top speed if he chooses to let it go on the descent.   You are correct that a simple potential energy equation does not account for everything, but it accounts for a lot.  Obviously, simple energy methods are too simple, but potential/kinetic energy tells 60-80% of the story… and to us engineers, that is a reasonable approximation.

I’m sorry – I place it closer to 10% of the story.  Human performance is far more complicated then simple 1/2mv^2 or mh equations.  And consider that energy is stored in the muscles.  If you have more muscle mass, you have more energy stored there.  I would expect it to be proportional.  Yet the overhead of the body itself (skeleton, water, organs) does not vary as much. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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i was riding my bike up a hill yesterday, in pain and thinking, how is it that those tiny little chaps fly up these hills so quickly? surely, i’m not that dull… i realize that weight makes a difference when on the bike.  my question is, what is the balance for a triathlete, who does need a bit more bulk in my opinion (swimming is upper body intensive).  what would you say, 70% concentration on light-weighted-ness (erm?) and 30% concentration on muscle mass?  more reps less weight in the weight room?

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i was riding my bike up a hill yesterday, in pain and thinking, how is it that those tiny little chaps fly up these hills so quickly? surely, i’m not that dull… i realize that weight makes a difference when on the bike.  my question is, what is the balance for a triathlete, who does need a bit more bulk in my opinion (swimming is upper body intensive).  what would you say, 70% concentration on

but since swimming is more about technique than power, you don’t need that much upper body.  Any more and you start to lose on the bike and run. On a flat course, I guess it would only be positive. but that said, I’m not going to go out of my way to lose muscle mass to improve performance.  I’m only focused on bf%.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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i was riding my bike up a hill yesterday, in pain and thinking, how is it that those tiny little chaps fly up these hills so quickly? surely, i’m not that dull… i realize that weight makes a difference when on the bike.

Definately does. Look at the hill climb specialists on the Tour de France. For the most part they’re usually little guys.

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The biggest factor in being a good climber is strength-to-weight ratio. Look at the differnce 20lbs made for Lance Armstrong.  He turned into one of the best climbers in the world after dropping weight.  Now, if a person is already a scrawny weakling, losing weight isn’t going to help.  On the other hand, if you are a big super strong guy you could probably stand to lose weight and muscle mass.  You will be lighter but still pretty strong for that lighter weight. Body fat % doesn’t necessarily mean anything in itself, in other words.  You could be 250lbs and 8% body fat.  You’ll never climb well.  (of course it does mean something, you could be light with a high body fat but then you wouldn’t be a very fit athlete anyway…you know what I mean) Mike

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The biggest factor in being a good climber is strength-to-weight ratio.

Some of the best strength to weight ratio athletes make lousy hill climbers. Try power to weight ratio for the endurance of the climb. On the flat it’s power to drag ratio, again for the endurance of the event. Phil Holman

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The biggest factor in being a good climber is strength-to-weight ratio.

- power to weight – VO2 max (no point having power if you don’t have the lungs to keep them   going for the duration of the climb) – mental resolve (hills hurt!) Look at the differnce 20lbs made for Lance Armstrong.  He turned into one of the best climbers in the world after dropping weight.

massive over simplification – I don’t think dropping 20lbs alone made him into what he is now (if only it were that simple!). Now, if a person is already a scrawny weakling, losing weight isn’t going to help.  On the other hand, if you are a big super strong guy you could probably stand to lose weight and muscle mass.  You will be lighter but still pretty strong for that lighter weight.

you’re arguing that 1lb of muscle generates less power than it’s own weight? In that case it’d be impossible to stand up or benchpress more than your own weight (think about it). Now if you’re talking about being a ‘big’ guy (but low BF) and dropping muscle in areas where it does no useful work (i.e. upper body if all you’re doing is cycling) then you’ve got a point. Also there’s the issue of recruitment (big muscles don’t necessarily mean powerful muscles – lots of ‘big’ guys aren’t particularly strong). Body fat % doesn’t necessarily mean anything in itself, in other words.  You could be 250lbs and 8% body fat.  You’ll never climb well.

power to weight is everything – if you’re 250lbs, all that weight is in your leg muscles and you’ve got huge lungs to drive them then you probably _will_ climb well (very well). I actually ride with one guy who’s pretty much like that (190lb/6′2" – regularly kicks my 150lb/6′ ass). — |o John Davis   phone:+64-3-3642461 mobile:+64-25-6223326 fax:+64-3-3642110 o| |o           (Depart)mental Programmer,Chemistry Department                 o| |o         University of Canterbury,Christchurch, New Zealand               o| |o      NZ Climbing Info – http://www.geocities.com/nzclimbing/             o|

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On a flat plane, the heavier athlete will spend far more energy than the lighter athlete regardless of training, equipment, or skill.  Add some hills, and the energy imbalance increases proportional to the ratio of the athletes’ masses.  If the athlete is not able to maintain a consistent pace (accelerating and decelerating), then the energy imbalance increases geometrically. If you come into a hill at 8 mph, allow yourself to slow to 5 mph, then accelerate back to 8 mph at the top of the hill, you have spent more energy than the runner who remained at 8 mph through the hill (you are also behind that runner because you slowed down).  Kinetic energy = 0.5 * m * v^2 where m is mass and v is velocity.  Kinetic energy can be used to determine the amount of energy required to accelerate from 5 mph to 8 mph (about 156% change in kinetic energy – regardless of the athlete’s mass).  Thus slowing down and speeding up expends a lot of energy.  Theoretically, you should save energy by slowing down, then regain that energy when you speed up. Unfortunately, that is not what happens because of muscle inefficiency, drag, and other realities.  (note:  energy losses in cycling are substantially less than energy losses in running due to increased efficiency and decreased friction on the bike – thus, improving your run "consistency" may actually be more beneficial than improving your bike "consistency") If two racers climb a hill (regardless of speed), the heavier racer will still spend more energy climbing the hill because of increased mass. Potential energy = m * g * h where m is mass, g is gravity, and h is height above some datum.  Potential energy can be used to determine the difference in energy necessary to climb a hill for 175 kg and 200 kg persons (14% more energy for the 200 kg person). Thus, the heavier of two athletes running a 200-foot hill is spending AT LEAST 14% more energy than the lighter athlete.  If the hill slows the heavier athlete more than the lighter athlete, the heavier runner could easily spend over 100% more energy than the lighter athlete. There are additional energy equations involving acceleration and "jerk" (the time-derivative of acceleration), but I can’t recall them off the top of my head. Regardless, speeding-up and slowing down really eat into your energy stores. It is definitely in the athlete’s best interest to carry only enough muscle to get the job done, and no more.  Those nice biceps probably don’t help enough in the water to make up for their mass… but they look good. I am 220-pounds and am always astonished (and pissed-off) when my 115-pound wife sprints up hills.  I could also lay-off the beer… but one must have priorities. Michael Alan Fisher Manager and Member ETHOS Biomedical, LLC 1609 Winslow Drive Blacksburg, VA  24060 540.961.0953 home office 540.239.5114 cell 540.961.0974 FAX

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The biggest factor in being a good climber is strength-to-weight ratio. – power to weight – VO2 max (no point having power if you don’t have the lungs to keep them   going for the duration of the climb) – mental resolve (hills hurt!) Look at the differnce 20lbs made for Lance Armstrong.  He turned into one of the best climbers in the world after dropping weight. massive over simplification – I don’t think dropping 20lbs alone made him into what he is now (if only it were that simple!). Now, if a person is already a scrawny weakling, losing weight isn’t going to help.  On the other hand, if you are a big super strong guy you could probably stand to lose weight and muscle mass.  You will be lighter but still pretty strong for that lighter weight. you’re arguing that 1lb of muscle generates less power than it’s own weight? In that case it’d be impossible to stand up or benchpress more than your own weight (think about it). Now if you’re talking about being a ‘big’ guy (but low BF) and dropping muscle in areas where it does no useful work (i.e. upper body if all you’re doing is cycling) then you’ve got a point. Also there’s the issue of recruitment (big muscles don’t necessarily mean powerful muscles – lots of ‘big’ guys aren’t particularly strong). Body fat % doesn’t necessarily mean anything in itself, in other words. You could be 250lbs and 8% body fat.  You’ll never climb well. power to weight is everything – if you’re 250lbs, all that weight is in your leg muscles and you’ve got huge lungs to drive them then you probably _will_ climb well (very well). I actually ride with one guy who’s pretty much like that (190lb/6′2" – regularly kicks my 150lb/6′ ass). — —- |o John Davis   phone:+64-3-3642461 mobile:+64-25-6223326

fax:+64-3-3642110 o| – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – o| |o           (Depart)mental Programmer,Chemistry Department o| |o         University of Canterbury,Christchurch, New Zealand o| |o      NZ Climbing Info – http://www.geocities.com/nzclimbing/ o|

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Thus, the heavier of two athletes running a 200-foot hill is spending AT LEAST 14% more energy than the lighter athlete.  If the hill slows the heavier athlete more than the lighter athlete, the heavier runner could easily spend over 100% more energy than the lighter athlete.

No surprises here – mass is mass.  But you didn’t spend any time considering the size of the motor.  A bigger person has a bigger engine, and larger energy stores.  We can’t just look at simple potential energy arguments.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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Thus, the heavier of two athletes running a 200-foot hill is spending AT LEAST 14% more energy than the lighter athlete.  If the hill slows the heavier athlete more than the lighter athlete, the heavier runner could easily spend over 100% more energy than the lighter athlete. No surprises here – mass is mass.  But you didn’t spend any time considering the size of the motor.  A bigger person has a bigger engine, and larger energy stores.  We can’t just look at simple potential energy arguments.  

That said, cycling performance on a flat course should be more a function of absolute power output than power-to-weight ratio because a person’s aerodynamic drag does not increase in proportion to their weight.  

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a person’s aerodynamic drag does not increase in proportion to their weight.  

I wonder if this is fact.  Not sure but it seems to me us big guys have a harder time getting aero, I’d guess a study would show this. Tim buaidh no bas

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person’s aerodynamic drag does not increase in proportion to their weight.   I wonder if this is fact.  Not sure but it seems to me us big guys have a harder time getting aero, I’d guess a study would show this.

Your drag is based on the cross section you present to the wind, which is roughly just two dimensional, while your body grows 3 dimensionally.  So the increase is drag is less than your increase in weight.  If you can gain power and endurance by putting on more mass, you can come out ahead.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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a person’s aerodynamic drag does not increase in proportion to their weight.   I wonder if this is fact.  Not sure but it seems to me us big guys have a harder time getting aero, I’d guess a study would show this. Tim buaidh no bas

According to Stokes’ Law, the force exerted on a sphere moving through a fluid in laminar flow is directly proportional to the radius of the sphere.  The volume of a sphere is (4/3) * pi * r^3, thus the force exerted on a sphere moving through the fluid would be proportional to its volume raised to the 1/3 power:   Drag Force = (constants) * (viscosity) * (velocity) * (volume)^0.333 Since all humans are roughly the same density, volume is proportional to weight.  Thus, the equation is modified to:   Drag Force = (constants) * (viscosity) * (velocity) * (weight)^0.333 This can only be considered a rough approximation, since humans on bikes are not spherical and air flow against a bike rider is not laminar.   In practical terms, this suggests that a 200 lb rider would only have 26% more aero drag force than a 100 lb rider moving at the same speed. Any idea how the actual data from races, wind tunnel tests, etc. correlate with this?

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Question:

Does anyone know where or when results might be posted for the Semper Fi Triathlon last Saturday at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina? — Bernie Hall                                            o                         __o          </_                         <        __ /       /o__      (0)  (0)           /     2.4             112           26.2 Great Floridian Triathlon Clermont, Florida October 21, 2000 12:40.14

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http://www.coolrunning.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where or when results might be posted for the Semper Fi Triathlon last Saturday at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina? — Bernie Hall                                            o                         __o          </_                         <        __ /       /o__      (0)  (0)           /     2.4             112           26.2 Great Floridian Triathlon Clermont, Florida October 21, 2000 12:40.14

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Question:

I am interested in competing in a Triathlon anywhere in the UK does anyone have any details of events in the next twelve months thanks Gary

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Hi Gary – Go to www.yahoo.com and type "triathlon UK".  You should find some links to get you started. Have fun, gordo

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check out http://www.triathletes-uk.org it is the one stop site for all thats happening in UK triathlon Ian.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in competing in a Triathlon anywhere in the UK does anyone have any details of events in the next twelve months thanks Gary

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Question:

I’m looking for Matt Saraceno…anybody have his e-mail? He graduated from the University of Oregon after winning the 1998 Collegiate National Triathlete Championship and after he won his age-group at Nationals (18-23?). I’ve heard rumors he did well at World’s in Europe (in his age group), but that is unconfirmed. Supposedly he is residing in San Diego…any help? If you know him or his e-mail, please forward him this post, or send me his e-mail. Much appreciated and thanks in advance. -Jason Vance

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Vance- It is afuny thing that you should be looking for Matt, too. I was on the World’s team with him, and yes he did quite well. I believe he placed 12th in the 20-24 race. Much better than my 43rd! Anyways, I recently came across a post card he sent to me after the Worlds. He stayed in Europe with a plan of roaming unitl Christmas sometime. The email address on his postcard is no longer valid. Hence, the search continues. Jeff Z

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Question:

I have to agree!  The races are fun and very competative.  They go on year around and a good way to stay in shape.  You can’t beat the price.  The post race partys are terrific. This also isn’t a paid AD, however, Brad if you are reading…. -Bob and Sue

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I’ll third this, especially in terms of the pasta salad, plentiful pb&j, and the cookies slathered in cake icing.  Some races, I just think about those cookies in the last miles.  I wish I was kidding. Mike in DC                                                                            o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           / "Remember, kid — bones heal, and chicks dig scars."

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     Is your race schedule limited by your wallet?      Do you miss the more informal, good old days of triathlon racing?      Having trouble finding enough races in your area?      Racing season too short where you live? Solution: Move to the Mid-Atlantic area and get familiar with TriAthlantic.  Brad Jaeger, the heart and soul of this organization, offers plenty of opportunities to race from March thru December.  The races are many times a bit less expensive than other races in the area.  Races include triathlons and biathlons, with a few events for those who prefer mountain bikes. There is even the Ride Roll and Stride Triathlon which substitutes a skate leg for the swim leg.  One great feature of Brads events is race day sign-up.  While early sign-up is preferred, race day sign-up is available for many, if not all of the races.  In addition, if you volunteer for an event, you get free entry to a later event. (Check with Brad on that one…I think it still holds true!)  Thats tough to beat for saving money. In addition, Brads events come with some of the best T-shirts, and the post-race food is usually plentiful.  Mistic beverages, Pasta Salad, PBnJ sandwiches, Bagels, Bergers Cookies, etc., and even Hamburgers sometimes! Try one of Brads events if you havent already.  If you are a Prospective Triathlete who has yet to participate…consider volunteering.  You will enjoy working the race, and you get that free entry (check with Brad to verify this!) For more information, go to WWW.Triath.Com PS.  This was NOT a paid advertisement!  (Brad, if you read this and want to turn it into a PAID advertisement, I would be more than happy to accept a small donation to go towards my next bike purchase). Greg Nelson

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Question:

Anybody that has raced the collegiate championship… please send any relevant info concerning that particular course. Arizona State University is sending a team for the very first time this year…watch out for our sweet looking uniforms May 4th. Muchos gracias, Dave "Life’s like riding a bike….you’ve got to taste the wind and bugs every once in a while."

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Anybody that has raced the collegiate championship… please send any relevant info concerning that particular course. Arizona State University is sending a team for the very first time this year…watch out for our sweet looking uniforms May 4th.

Dave— This was my personal race report for the ‘95 Wildflower Olympic Distance tri.  I wasn’t racing in the collegiate division, but the course is still the same.  You might also want to read my description of last year’s WF Long Course, since it has further information on the terrain and conditions.  You can find both reports at: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie/96Reports/Triptych.HTML See you in May! This was the first race report I ever posted on the rec.sport.triathlon newsgroup. I also sent it around to a bunch of non-triathlete friends, thus the explanations of things like what Gu is and how your legs feel starting the run.  Enjoy! Sunday, May 7 – Lake San Antonio, California Corn Nuts Wildflower Olympic Distance Triathlon 1.5k Swim  (1 mile) 40k  Bike  (25 miles) 10k  Run   (6.2 miles) The weather turned out to be perfect for the race; just enough overcast to keep things cool, but not at all cold.  Little (if any) wind, and the sun actually did peep out of the clouds now and again. Lake San Antonio was a comfortable temperature (at least, comfortable in a longjohn wetsuit), and the water level was higher than it has been in years, making the mad dash from the boat launch ramp up to the transition area much shorter than in the past. The course was very challenging, with lots of hills on the bike and the run.  The first big climb came only a mile into the bike, and it was a stiff half mile quad-killer.  The kind of thing that makes you say to yourself "Why in the hell am I doing this???"  Lots of rollers after that on an out and back course. The run was roughly half on trails, half on the road, and at least a quarter of it was uphill.  Thank heaven for the clouds that kept it from getting too hot. I passed a lot of men from the previous two waves in the swim, and came out roughly in the top third of my wave at just over 28 minutes.  My swim to bike transition was pretty darned speedy, I’m proud to say—that’s been a definite weakness in the past, I guess experience is finally starting to pay off. I had checked out the first couple miles of the bike course on Saturday, riding up Beach Hill (which racers refer to by another name) to see just how bad it really was.  So I knew I had about a mile to get my legs loosened up from the swim and ready for that climb.  I made a point of keeping the gears low and spinning, but I got to the hill and it hurt anyway. After Beach Hill, the bike winds over rolling hills out of Lake San Antonio Park on roads we drove in, so I knew pretty much what to expect:  lots of rollers with the occasional steep section, and some longer climbs of a half mile or so.  About 4 miles into the ride a bug flew straight into my mouth and got caught in my throat…gack. Definitely the highlight of the day.  Not.  Fortunately, I was able to cough it out (yechh!) and didn’t miss a beat. The bike is my strongest event, and I passed a lot of people, including quite a few men.  I was careful to pace myself and avoid mashing the gears, though, in order to save something in those legs for the run.  Again, experience paid off; in the past, I’d often blow my wad on the bike since it’s my strong point, and then just die on the run.  I was happy to find myself riding within my limits, and yet doing very well.  Coming back into the park for the last 3 or 4 mles I was really starting to feel good, especially on the gradual ascents.  I was confident about starting the run. The bike to run transition was pretty fast—I’ve gotten good at that.  I downed a packet of Gu (sort of a gel PowerBar) on the way out of the transition area.  Boy, that stuff is great, it goes down quick and easy, and it really works. The first mile and a half of the run were brutal—they generally are, as any triathlete will attest.  Your legs scream in indignant protest at being forced to change gears so abruptly from cycling to running.  I really thought I was going to have to walk early on, but somehow I kept running (although it was technically more a shuffle than a run).  By the time we hit the first major uphill, my legs had loosened up a bit, thank god! Having run the Dish a lot, I was at least somewhat prepared for the hills here, but yowzah, did they hurt!  A lot of other folks apparently weren’t at all prepared for the hills, because *I* passed them (which, I can assure you, is nothing short of a miracle; the general rule is, I pass everybody on the bike, and they pass me right by again on the run).  Starting at the second or third aid station (one each mile), I made the sensible decision to walk the aid stations.  This way, I could drink a whole cup each of Gatorade and water and stay well-hydrated, and also get a brief 10 or 15 second respite from the pounding.  This worked quite well, and enabled me to keep running strongly between aid stations. The last half mile or so was on pavement down a steep hill, and ouch!  That hurts on tired legs and knees.  I probably could have picked up a good half minute or so here, except that I really didn’t want to risk doing a face plant just to pick up a few seconds.  It’s the strangest feeling when your quads start to lock up on you… Finally, about 200 yards to go!  Unfortunately, some girl behind me decided she had some spare fuel in her tanks and blasted past me, and I just didn’t have enough left to catch her.  I made a valiant effort, however, but even though she started to fade just before the line, I just couldn’t get her.  Oh well, the announcer commented on my strong finishing sprint anyway, so that was ok! Final time was 3:01:03, and I came in 12th out of 38 in the Women’s 25-29 division.  I was stoked to do so well in a tough race this early in the season.  My conservative estimate of my time prior to the race had been 3 and a half hours, so I was really pleased to cut out that half.  The splits worked out (roughly) to about 28 minutes for the swim, 1:29:xx for the bike, and just under an hour for the run. Next race:  South Bay Triathlon, Sunday, May 21st, Uvas Reservoir in Morgan Hill.  Swim 3/4 mile, bike 18 miles, run 5 miles. See ya at the races! TriBaby Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Question:

Anyone know how a junior goes about qualifying for the National Duathlon team??? I’m starting to plan out my racing schedule for the 97 season and need to consider if I want to/can attempt to qualify for the team.  Basically, it comes down to the date(s??) of the qualifying races (i gotta race track all spring, takes a little while to get some bike miles in). Any information will be helpful, I’ve had a real difficult time getting any info on this at all, which sorta brings me to another point.  If we’re trying so hard to get more juniors into the sport, why is so friggin’ hard to find out stuff like this.  I know the system for triathlon (Columbia and Vineman junior qual races) but don’t have a clue for the du’s.  Since i swim like a rock but bike and run real well this is what I do.  I’m sure i’m better connected (rst) than a lot of others out there and even i don’t know where even to race.  Well, thanks for any help you can provide. Gratefully, i am) Drafting Sucks.  Keep tri-ing!

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Anyone know how a junior goes about qualifying for the National Duathlon Any information will be helpful, I’ve had a real difficult time getting any info on this at all, which sorta brings me to another point.  If we’re trying so hard to get more juniors into the sport, why is so friggin’ hard to find out stuff like this.  I know the system for triathlon (Columbia and Vineman junior qual races) but don’t have a clue for the du’s.  fting Sucks.  Keep tri-ing!

O.k. i’m not a duathlete but i am a junior triathlete.  I want to acknowledge the fact that efforts are being put into getting juniors into the sports of triathlon and duathlon but the only ones getting the benefits of what USA tri and Tri-Fed put into the sport are those that are elite.  What about those people that are not elite and don’t own the latest stuff and can’t go as fast?  Last summer i attended a junior development camp in Camp Whitcomb/Mason coached by Bob Hanisch and i was fortunate enough to win a GT frameset.  This was before GT made the vengeance, so i gave it to a less fortunate collegue of mine because i think there should be more equilibrium in the sports of tri and du. Just my two sense. — Logan Heinrich "Tri-Weasel" **If there was no ice cream there would be nothing but chaos and darkness**

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Question:

I was told Greg welch broke his collar bone after crashing in a pack in an ITU sacntioned race and will be out for Hawaii? Is this true?

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I was told Greg welch broke his collar bone after crashing in a pack in an ITU sacntioned race and will be out for Hawaii? Is this true?

Nope.  Just dislocated his shoulder.  He’ll be ready to roll at Kona, no problem. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I was at Muncie on 9/7 and Welch was there and in very good condition, was out of the water aorund 5th came off the bike not one of the leaders I hear, but flew on the run. He looked good for a 3:47 finish to end up 1st overall. I hope he did not get hurt later because I believe he will be the one to beat in Kona.

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I was told Greg welch broke his collar bone after crashing in a pack in an ITU sacntioned race and will be out for Hawaii? Is this true?

Last I heard (here) was that he was fine and would be ready to race. — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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I was told Greg welch broke his collar bone after crashing in a pack in an ITU sacntioned race and will be out for Hawaii? Is this true?

No he is fine from what I heard here in Boulder. Luis Vargas

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Greg’s crash occurred in the Grand Prix Series race in Oceanside, not an ITU event. Steve Locke USA Triathlon

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I was told Greg welch broke his collar bone after crashing in a pack in an ITU sacntioned race and will be out for Hawaii? Is this true?

No , he didnt break his collar bone and will definitely be racing for a win in Kona

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Was it a drafting legal race? What a shame it would have been to lose a great athlete like Greg due to the drafting virus that has infected our sport.

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Virus??  I dont want drafting in my age-group racing, and I don’t want to see draft- legal in the Olympics, however if a race director wants to put on a race/series which is draft legal for pros, then so be it.  If someone (participant, spectator, sponsor, etc) doesn’t like it, then he/she/it doesn’t have to patronize the event. It’s totally myopic to think that a sport has to be only one way.  The ITGP in Oceanside where Welch hurt himself was great fun to watch — a very tight format made for full viewing of the action. (and I dont go to races to see crashes).  IMO, the event was praised by all;  I just wish there were more spectators there.

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Question:

Steve, Thank you for investing your time, and money, in running for ITU president. I am very disappointed, and don’t pretend to understand what happened, but believe you ran a clean, clear, campaign. I am not sure if now is the time to compromise, and so I reserve judgement on the decision not to declare war and start a competing international organization, but I appreciate your feelings that you need to work with Les. Hopefully Rick M. can accomplish something on the inside. Brian Sullivan

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I am not sure if now is the time to compromise, and so I reserve judgement on the decision not to declare war and start a competing international organization, but I appreciate your feelings that you need to work with Les. Hopefully Rick M. can accomplish something on the inside. <<

Did anyone really think the ITU election would turn out differently? Uncle Les is reelected and Sisson is back in

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My boss is an avid racer and recreational mountain and road bike rider.   He has had an REI Ponderosa for YEARS now and has had a great time with it.  It is a bit heavy, but that’s only because it’s 6+ yrs old.

[deleted] I’ve got an ‘89 Novara Ponderosa (REI), and it’s been a good bike. A bit heavy by todays standards, yes, but the CroMo frame is bomb-proof. But I haven’t exactly left mine in stock condition. In fact, the only original components left are: frame, front deraileur, crank & pedals, and shift & brake levers. As components broke or wore out, I replaced them with higher quality or lighter bits, and 3 months ago I dropped about $1K into a major upgrade including a Judy XC shock and new: rims, hubs, tires, brakes, stem, bars, headset, cassette, and cables. I figured that this was cheaper than buying a new bike with the same components, and besides I liked the frame; it fits me (and the "old style" geometry makes it a great climber). I’ve also got an REI road bike (‘85 Novara Strada). REI bikes seem to be quality products at reasonable prices. Jeff Gauvin, Design Engineer, Symbios Logic Inc.           *** Opinions are my own ***

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Theoretically they have a Web site, but it’s been down for days… I often start here: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~condon/sd.html when looking for information… -TM

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My boss is an avid racer and recreational mountain and road bike rider.   He has had an REI Ponderosa for YEARS now and has had a great time with it.  It is a bit heavy, but that’s only because it’s 6+ yrs old. I woul;d say go for it.  I give you this advice from a man who actually LIKES to do the Ironman Triathalon.  UGH… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -PS: The message is timed so that I can I can hit the REI sale time in a week or so if I decide to buy the bike

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Hi I want some feedback about the REI bikes. With my budget the best bike I can buy will have Alivio components, some shock that I have never heard of and a cro-moly frame from Novarra. I have seen this only at REI and nowhere else. I would appreciate some feedback regarding the frame, the components and the assembly. I am told REI is usually very good about the assembly and post sales service. So I am looking for information about Novarra frames and Alivio components. In what way are the more expensive Shimano components better than their cheaper ones? Thank you, Vinay PS: The message is timed so that I can I can hit the REI sale time in a week or so if I decide to buy the bike

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: Hi : I want some feedback about the REI bikes. With my budget the best bike : I can buy will have Alivio components, some shock that I have never : heard of and a cro-moly frame from Novarra. I have seen this only at : REI and nowhere else. : I would appreciate some feedback regarding the frame, the components : and the assembly. I am told REI is usually very good about the : assembly and post sales service. So I am looking for information about : Novarra frames and Alivio components. In what way are the more : expensive Shimano components better than their cheaper ones? : Thank you, : Vinay : PS: The message is timed so that I can I can hit the REI sale time in : a week or so if I decide to buy the bike When I was shopping around for a bike in a similar financial situation I found that I got the best component group with a Giant Yukon.  This was before the Alvio line came out- I believe what I got was part of the Altus line.  I ended up getting my Yukon for less than the Novarra/REI bike with better components. In the last 2 years the bike has done quite well.  If anyone else has a Giant- How is yours doing?   Hunter — | It’s a good thing we don’t get all the government we pay for.             | | Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia          Brian C. Hampton|

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