Question:

What part of town you’re in will be somewhat relevent to the question of training without a car. For swimming, the Aquatic Park at Garadelli Square is the place for OW swimming, with two swim clubs established there for many decades.  Short of joining, there is a day use if you want access to a lockerroom and shower. I just park my motorcycle, grab my gear and go in.  Otherwise, within the city proper most if not all use pools.   Golden Gate park is fine for running, as is the coastlines.  Everywhere else is a concrete jungle with lots of hills.  Great training, but high potential for injuries like at the achilles.  I like the Aquatic Park to GG Bridge stretch, as well as the sands of Ocean Beach.   Cycling here has been the problem for me.  I’m surrounded by hills, stop signs, and way too many cars.  The stretches I like to ride (Presidio area) is a drive away, but I think it’s ridiculous to drive to ride.  My solution is to do much of my riding on a mtb, better suited for the rougher spots.   Definitely a lot of good hill training around here, within the city and then north to Marin, or east via Bart to Berkeley Hills.   Winter weather isn’t so great for cycling – you might want a trainer, or a good rain jacket.  Swimming is still fine, however, the water temp drops from high 50s to low 50s.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

Jason’s right, it is a concrete jungle.  However there are plenty of cool rides straight out of the City.  Over the bridge to the Marin Headlands is a very nice loop with altitude.  Also, taking a right turn after the bridge takes you down to Sausalito.  There’s a bike path out of there going to Mill Valley-Tennessee Valley loop.  Then there’s the East Bay.  Gotta get in your car and drive, however you can find a zillion rides there.  Along with GGTC (resident social club for triathletes in SF with some good workouts), you might try hooking up with TSTC (Transition Sports Triathlon Club) in the East Bay. There’s groups going out every weekend for some huge rides (and plenty of SF members, including Cathy!)  www.transitionsports.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, I have a bunch of questions that mostly boil down to: where do people who live in the city do their training? I suggest checking out www.ggtc.org, which lists all of our weekly training–swim, bike and run. I live in the Russian Hill area and didn’t own a car for 4 years.  I bought myself a brand new bike carrier (Nissan Frontier truck) because I like to ride with my friends who live in the wine country.  But, I got by for 4 years without wheels. – Are Golden Gate Park and The Presidio suitable for running?  Are there any other good parks or trails nearby? Excellent for both.  Also, along the waterfront, which will then put you up onto the Golden Gate Bridge and you can run down to Sausalito and beyond if you want. – Where do people swim?  I know there are a couple of beaches (can’t remember the names) where open water swimming is possible, but do most triathletes in the city do their swimming exclusively in the open water or are their pools available? Lots of pools.  In fact Golden Gate Tri Club has our own Masters’ swim workouts.  Personally, I swim at Golden Gate Swim & Tennis Club since it’s really close to my work and outdoors.  We swim from Aquatic Park on the bay on Sunday mornings and there is the Thursday night swims from SERC (So. End Rowing Club).  Quite a few folks also belong to SERC, but I hate cold water. – Where do people go to ride?  Do you have to drive out of the city to find suitable roads (e.g. Marin Co. or points south)?  Is it possible to RIDE out of the city (e.g. Down the coast)? We have at least two rides which leave from the SF side of the GG Bridge every Saturday.  It’s also a very popular meeting place for roadies. Depending where you live in SF, you can just ride to the GGB and then either (1) over into Marin (and even up to Sonoma Co.) or (2) south towards the Peninsula.   My Cervelo can ride the Marin rides by itself since I did so much training in that area for IM NZ 2001.  I now prefer to drive up to Vineman country or out to the East Bay and ride with friends. Our club has out of SF rides often and we always car pool–I had three bikes in the Frontier last weekend. Sorry for all the babbling.  I suppose I’m basically interested in hearing any information regarding how triathletes who live in the city manage their training. Not difficult at all. clm in sf, sf resident since 1993, triathlete since 1987

Response:

So, I have a bunch of questions that mostly boil down to: where do people who live in the city do their training?

I suggest checking out www.ggtc.org, which lists all of our weekly training–swim, bike and run. I live in the Russian Hill area and didn’t own a car for 4 years.  I bought myself a brand new bike carrier (Nissan Frontier truck) because I like to ride with my friends who live in the wine country.  But, I got by for 4 years without wheels. – Are Golden Gate Park and The Presidio suitable for running?  Are there any other good parks or trails nearby?

Excellent for both.  Also, along the waterfront, which will then put you up onto the Golden Gate Bridge and you can run down to Sausalito and beyond if you want. – Where do people swim?  I know there are a couple of beaches (can’t remember the names) where open water swimming is possible, but do most triathletes in the city do their swimming exclusively in the open water or are their pools available?

Lots of pools.  In fact Golden Gate Tri Club has our own Masters’ swim workouts.  Personally, I swim at Golden Gate Swim & Tennis Club since it’s really close to my work and outdoors.  We swim from Aquatic Park on the bay on Sunday mornings and there is the Thursday night swims from SERC (So. End Rowing Club).  Quite a few folks also belong to SERC, but I hate cold water. – Where do people go to ride?  Do you have to drive out of the city to find suitable roads (e.g. Marin Co. or points south)?  Is it possible to RIDE out of the city (e.g. Down the coast)?

We have at least two rides which leave from the SF side of the GG Bridge every Saturday.  It’s also a very popular meeting place for roadies. Depending where you live in SF, you can just ride to the GGB and then either (1) over into Marin (and even up to Sonoma Co.) or (2) south towards the Peninsula.   My Cervelo can ride the Marin rides by itself since I did so much training in that area for IM NZ 2001.  I now prefer to drive up to Vineman country or out to the East Bay and ride with friends. Our club has out of SF rides often and we always car pool–I had three bikes in the Frontier last weekend. Sorry for all the babbling.  I suppose I’m basically interested in hearing any information regarding how triathletes who live in the city manage their training.

Not difficult at all. clm in sf, sf resident since 1993, triathlete since 1987 — cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

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Hi everyone, Forgive me for being lurker crawling out of the woodwork but I have a few questions for the groups collective wisdom. My employer has asked me to consider a voluntary move to San Francisco early next year.  (The decision is actually a no brainer – but I’m not telling them that yet).  If I decide to move, I’d probably be living IN the city since I have several friends who already live there.  One of my biggest questions is that my friends who live in the city don’t have cars.  For financial reasons I’d like to get rid of mine too, but I wonder if I’ll need it to get to available training locations. So, I have a bunch of questions that mostly boil down to: where do people who live in the city do their training? – Are Golden Gate Park and The Presidio suitable for running?  Are there any other good parks or trails nearby? – Where do people swim?  I know there are a couple of beaches (can’t remember the names) where open water swimming is possible, but do most triathletes in the city do their swimming exclusively in the open water or are their pools available? – Where do people go to ride?  Do you have to drive out of the city to find suitable roads (e.g. Marin Co. or points south)?  Is it possible to RIDE out of the city (e.g. Down the coast)? Sorry for all the babbling.  I suppose I’m basically interested in hearing any information regarding how triathletes who live in the city manage their training. Thanks in advance for your help. Scott

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Question:

I use www.markallenonline.com and like it and endorse it. It asks you a bunch of questions about current and last few years fitness, goals, target races, what days you want to do certain things (like long run or day off). Then it builds a daily perodic training schedule. You can see all the workouts over how many weeks you have currently paid for. You log-on and update what percentage of completion you achieve for each workout, and at any time can ask the system to review what you have completed so far and update the program accordingly. BW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do any of you have any experience with or recommendations for On Line Coaching programs.  I am currently grossly out of shape an overweight,but have done triathlons in the past and want to get back into the sport.  I just feel that I need some discipline and the need to report in regularly (not to mention the cash outlay) should motivate me to train.  Any comments you may have will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Scott

Response:

I looked at this program in Chicago.  It was very intersteing but expensive and when I was ready to sign up they wouldn’t honor the discounted price they had given me previously.  Personally I’m glad I didn’t go with them, I’m paying less money and get a schedule done personally for me.  Not a software generated schedule and the ability to talk to someone who might have met Mark Allen once.

I use www.markallenonline.com and like it and endorse it. It asks you a bunch of questions about current and last few years fitness, goals, target races, what days you want to do certain things (like long run or day off). Then it builds a daily perodic training schedule. You can see all the workouts over how many weeks you have currently paid for. You log-on and update what percentage of completion you achieve for each workout, and at any time can ask the system to review what you have completed so far and update the program accordingly. BW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do any of you have any experience with or recommendations for On Line Coaching programs.  I am currently grossly out of shape an overweight,but have done triathlons in the past and want to get back into the sport.  I just feel that I need some discipline and the need to report in regularly (not to mention the cash outlay) should motivate me to train.  Any comments you may have will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Scott

Response:

… Do any of you have any experience with online Coaching programs?

I used to use Rod Cedaro, cheap and effective but a little unrealistic concerning time requirements. It worked for me. His credentials both academically and as an athlete are hard to match http://www.tri-training.com.au/ Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use trainingbible.com and really like it, however it takes some commitment to figure it out (not the software, but the training behind it). Joe Friel is the guy. He wrote the Triathlete’s Training Bible, not an easy book to completely understand, but a great one once you do, imo. Last Sunday I spent a day attending a Joe Friel seminar and it clarified a ton of stuff about the book and the site. Chris

Response:

Do any of you have any experience with or recommendations for On Line Coaching programs.  I am currently grossly out of shape an overweight,but have done triathlons in the past and want to get back into the sport.  I just feel that I need some discipline and the need to report in regularly (not to mention the cash outlay) should motivate me to train.  Any comments you may have will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Scott

Response:

Do any of you have any experience with online Coaching programs?

I use trainingbible.com and really like it, however it takes some commitment to figure it out (not the software, but the training behind it). Joe Friel is the guy. He wrote the Triathlete’s Training Bible, not an easy book to completely understand, but a great one once you do, imo. Last Sunday I spent a day attending a Joe Friel seminar and it clarified a ton of stuff about the book and the site. Chris

Response:

I use Steve from www.tri-ecoach.com.  I’m happy with what my $80 a month buys.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do any of you have any experience with or recommendations for On Line Coaching programs.  I am currently grossly out of shape an overweight,but have done triathlons in the past and want to get back into the sport.  I just feel that I need some discipline and the need to report in regularly (not to mention the cash outlay) should motivate me to train.  Any comments you may have will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Scott

Response:

Just send me $50 a month, shoot me an email everyday of what you have done (and eaten), and I will reply to each and every email telling you something. Granted, I’m not a coach per say but I can motivate you for $50 a month.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do any of you have any experience with or recommendations for On Line Coaching programs.  I am currently grossly out of shape an overweight,but have done triathlons in the past and want to get back into the sport.  I just feel that I need some discipline and the need to report in regularly (not to mention the cash outlay) should motivate me to train.  Any comments you may have will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike Scott

Response:

Question:

Sorry, I also forgot to post that the top finishers in each age group, and a brief race report are also available on Inside Triathlon’s website. Rance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where results from Age Group Nationals are posted? Thanks Kyle

Response:

Results will also be posted at the race web-site – lawrencetriathlon.com  and at the active.com web-site.   Z Tom Ziebart – Orlando Regional Sports & Health

Response:

Results were posted this afternoon on our website <www.lawrencetriathlon.com.  Results are listed by age group and also by overall place.  We also listed penalties by race number, as well as splits for those only finishing the swim or the swim and bike.  Thanks for your patience.  Please do not contact Lawrence Triathlon for questions on times though, as we are only posting the results and did not perform the timing and scoring. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where results from Age Group Nationals are posted? Thanks Kyle

Response:

Where on the site are they located?  I can’t seem to find them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Results were posted this afternoon on our website <www.lawrencetriathlon.com.  Results are listed by age group and also by overall place.  We also listed penalties by race number, as well as splits for those only finishing the swim or the swim and bike.  Thanks for your patience.  Please do not contact Lawrence Triathlon for questions on times though, as we are only posting the results and did not perform the timing and scoring. Does anyone know where results from Age Group Nationals are posted? Thanks Kyle

  neal.dunn.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

The bad news?  The administrators of the USAT national site appear to be largely computer illiterate.  The good news?  Someone in the southeast region of USAT knows what to do.  Go to www.usat-se.org/usatnat00.htm. Lew Kidder – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where on the site are they located?  I can’t seem to find them. Results were posted this afternoon on our website <www.lawrencetriathlon.com.  Results are listed by age group and also by overall place.  We also listed penalties by race number, as well as splits for those only finishing the swim or the swim and bike.  Thanks for your patience.  Please do not contact Lawrence Triathlon for questions on times though, as we are only posting the results and did not perform the timing and scoring. Does anyone know where results from Age Group Nationals are posted? Thanks Kyle

Response:

Does anyone know where results from Age Group Nationals are posted? Thanks Kyle

Response:

Results are to be posted on www.usatriathlon.org on Monday (September 11th)  They were being prepared today by the timing company for the event, Lakeshore Athletics, out of Chicago.  Thanks to everyone who raced. Rance McClain Lawrence Triathlon, Inc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where results from Age Group Nationals are posted? Thanks Kyle

Response:

Question:

My last (and first) triathlon was last Sunday and I wanted to get some feedback from the folks in the forum with regards to when they take the plunge in the swim. I waited until the water was just about at my ribs and dove in, but I noticed some waited until it was chest high, and plenty of competitors dove before I did.  So is there any consistent guideline as to the best time to dive? — Matt

Response:

I waited until the water was just about at my ribs and dove in, but I noticed some waited until it was chest high, and plenty of competitors dove before I did.  So is there any consistent guideline as to the best time to dive? — Matt

Chest-high is a little too late to dive in if you’re trying to count seconds at the start. Once I find that I can’t jump over the surface of the water due to increased depth, I dive in.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Both these last two recommendations are good. As soon as you cannot wade  through the water as you run forward then use your remaining momentum to throw yourself forward into a dive and over or through the next wave (if in surf). Streamline underwater for a couple of seconds to gain the benefit of further distance from that momentum then pull on the bottom (sand?) forwards before you come up arms by sides to reduce drag. This is when start with duck diving which usually lasts for three or four motions before the depth falls away and you must begin to swim. Basically do what you can to maximise and maintain your forward momentum and minimise drag while you bolt down that beach or lake. Haydn. Futuredreams – The Premier Swim Program for Triathletes http://www.futuredreams.co.nz Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

You should start to dolphin (short series of dives) once the water starts to impede your running.  That’s usually when the water is around mid-thigh.  Dolphin until the water is above your waist, then begin your regular stroke. I would recommend practicing this if you happen to have access to open water.  If not, dolphin in the shallow end of the pool to get the hang of it. My last (and first) triathlon was last Sunday and I wanted to get some feedback from the folks in the forum with regards to when they take the plunge in the swim. I waited until the water was just about at my ribs and dove in, but I noticed some waited until it was chest high, and plenty of competitors dove before I did.  So is there any consistent guideline as to the best time to dive? — Matt

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Hi, Could someone give me info about running camps in the USA?  I would like to go to one next year.   I run 40-50 miles a week at present and I have 10 years of coaching experience at the high school level, 2 years as head coach of track and field, 6 years as assistant track coach and 2 years as assistant cross country coach. I would like to help out the organizers if possible. Also, I hear that Coach Benson is organizing a coaching certification program.  Could anyone give me some info on that as well.  I live in eastern PA.  Thanks a lot. Joe "Mogo" Mogilski

Response:

I think Benson has a website. Run a search.

Response:

Hi, Could someone give me info about running camps in the USA?  I would like to go to one next year.   I run 40-50 miles a week at present and I have 10 years of coaching experience at the high school level, 2 years as head coach of track and field, 6 years as assistant track coach and 2 years as assistant cross country coach. I would like to help out the organizers if possible. Also, I hear that Coach Benson is organizing a coaching certification program.  Could anyone give me some info on that as well.  I live in eastern PA.  Thanks a lot. Joe "Mogo" Mogilski

Have you checked out this URL: http://www.coachbenson.com/benson80.htm. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site.

Response:

Question:

I did my first ever triathlon  this weekend and really liked it. This brings me to a problem. i don’t own a road bike(tri bike). Which brings me to  my question what is the difference in setup between a road bike and a tri bike. well besides aero bars? Also for this race the swim was in a pool. We were sappoused to be in lanes with people who swam our speed. well I swam 30 sec slower than I excpected(and had written as my swim time) mainly because I was busy passing my entire lane. sprinting, lagging, waiting, do the breast stoke to look around and see if i could pass. It was honrendous. Is this par for the course? Is the solution simply and blantantly lie about your swim time? Thankyou, S.P.A

Response:

I did my first ever triathlon  this weekend and really liked it. This brings me to a problem. i don’t own a road bike(tri bike). Which brings me to  my question what is the difference in setup between a road bike and a tri bike. well besides aero bars?

The main difference is that a real tri bike has a seat tube angle of 78 degrees instead of a road frame of usually 73 degrees. This means that the operator can get a flat back (aerodynamically advantagess) without compromising power output since ones sknees don’t hit your chest, reducing breating, or rducing quadracep power. A REAL tri bike will have 26 inch wheels rather than the big 700c wheels. This is for arguably better aerodynamics and also for quick acceleration and less weight. Also for this race the swim was in a pool. We were sappoused to be in lanes with people who swam our speed. well I swam 30 sec slower than I excpected(and had written as my swim time) mainly because I was busy passing my entire lane. sprinting, lagging, waiting, do the breast stoke to look around and see if i could pass. It was honrendous. Is this par for the course? Is the solution simply and blantantly lie about your swim time?

I’ve never done an indoor swim for a tri so can’t really comment. I’d stay with telling the truth however. Otherwise you’re just compounding the problem. Outdoors it’s easier to get clear water to swim in (except at the meat-grinder start and sometimes at the turns) Thankyou, S.P.A

Glad to have another addicted triathlete amongst us. Welcome aboard. Congradulations and condolences TriDork

Response:

Also for this race the swim was in a pool. We were sappoused to be in lanes with people who swam our speed. well I swam 30 sec slower than I excpected(and had written as my swim time) mainly because I was busy passing my entire lane. sprinting, lagging, waiting, do the breast stoke to look around and see if i could pass. It was honrendous. Is this par for the course? Is the solution simply and blantantly lie about your swim time?

I’ve competed in over 10 triathlons with pool swims.  I too have found that folks tend to exaggerate their swim times. Maybe you should do the same. I remember one race in particular where a fellow had estimated a sub five minute finish for a 500 yard swim,  and then jumped into the water and started doing the breaststroke!  For the race director, there are two ways to get around this mess: (1) Have the pool swim be last instead of first,  this tends to spread people out and the lanes are not so crowded; (2) Start everybody off on one side of the pool,  thirty seconds apart (like a bike time trial).  The swimmer goes up one side of the lane,  down the other,  ducks under the lane rope,  goes up one side of the next lane and down the other,  ducks under the next lane rope…etc…Of course for this type of procedure,  the swim distance is limited by the number of lanes.  And,  it helps to seed the swimmers fastest to slowest for the start, instead of slowest to fastest. John R.

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Question:

:               Mar. 22, 23, 24 :   :     3 Full Days of Off Road.. Rock ‘n Roll! :    Y’all probably don’t want a piece of this! :       :     If you don’t do it, don’t talk about it, : Shut – UP Sitdown, bend-over and kiss it all GoodBy!!!! :             THIS IS REAL 4Wheelin !!! :     :    Coverage By America’s 4X4 4U Video Magazine :        ….Live UpLink to the WebSite…. Wish I was going to be able to get there.  Oh well, there’s plenty-o-off roading on the left coast.  Will check out the UpLink though!

Response:

              Mar. 22, 23, 24     3 Full Days of Off Road.. Rock ‘n Roll!    Y’all probably don’t want a piece of this!     If you don’t do it, don’t talk about it, Shut – UP Sitdown, bend-over and kiss it all GoodBy!!!!             THIS IS REAL 4Wheelin !!!    Coverage By America’s 4X4 4U Video Magazine        ….Live UpLink to the WebSite…. For More info: Bob Hazel or

Response:

Question:

Kelsey: You putz! Congratulations on Cancun!  Please give me a call ASAP! You know the number. David Roberson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr or Mrs Michele428: I guess I feel a little obligated to reply to your nasty little tantrum you displayed a few weeks ago.   I was warned by several people of the malicious content of the posting, but I was unfortunately only able to read it (and respond to it) today.  Sorry about my untimeliness.   You asked me to reflect on several quotes from my description of the Sentinel race.  The passage was as follows: <begin passage  With 8 strong riders, not a lot of hills or wind, it’s hard for things to split apart.  Some attempts were made by a few riders to break free, but this was virtually impossible given the abilities of all the athletes.  Although it did appear that some athletes were doing more work than others, no one person can be blamed for any wrongdoing.  There was no blatant drafting, everybody was trying to keep a fair distance in the men’s group.  This year was unprecedented in what was to unfold (namely a large group of men in the lead) and I’m sure many of the athletes did not know how to deal with the situation.  One solution is to try and break away, which a few did, unsuccessfully; another is to drop back out of the group, which a few did, successfully (but regretfully I’m sure); another is to attempt to keep within the designated drafting parameters, which I’m sure we violated BUT within the constraints of the race would be almost impossible to uphold considering the narrowness of road, size of the group, aggressiveness of riders, etc., etc. <end passage Your reaction to this statement was as follows: I wanted to puke. (You) have come up with the most absurd and contradictory statements. They absolutely defy logic. You two are almost saying "The Devil made me do it." In one statement you will say you didn’t do any "blatant" drafting and in the next explain why you were compelled to draft. Your explanations are even harder to take when taken in conjunction with how horrified you were about a couple of competitors last year doing drafting. That was nothing compared with what happened this year. My comments reflect what I felt was the closest to the truth and I don’t see anything illogical, contradictory, or absurd about them.  I tried to paint an objective view of what occurred in the race.   I’m not sure what your experience or status is as a triathlete (or even if you are one) but nothing gives you the right to slander my name and threaten me in a public forum such as this.  You point your finger at the top 8 or 10 athletes in the front group in Santa Cruz as criminals where the crime is drafting.  But how do you define drafting?  You seem to have a black and white view of drafting, you either do it or you don’t.  That’s not the case, though.  When I say no "blatant" drafting I mean no one was directly on somebody else’s wheel or shadowing another rider because they were that much weaker (as is apparent in draft-legal races I’ve competed in).  The athletes were in the front for a reason, they were experienced, talented cyclists.  When I say "things are hard to split apart" that’s what I mean, no steep hills or wind to drop a slightly weaker rider.  When I say "some .. doing more work than others" I mean that if we all had started at 1 minute intervals we wouldn’t have finished that way exactly, but with the "group" situation, we did, thus, well you (you figure out the math) some athletes benefited more.  The "group" did not conspire to work together in any way in order to decimate the rest of the field.  There is a mental advantage to riding with a group which has nothing to do with drafting or wind resistance– and that’s the competitiveness between the athlete’s themselves and the alertness needed when having to constantly counter the attacks made which I mentioned were unsuccessful largely because of the abilities of all the riders.  I don’t feel there is any need to expound further on my comments.  You’ve already wasted my time and I could really care less about your "problem".  I’m sure the top athletes of that "pack" could care less to.  I know many of them and they are all hardworking, honest individuals who give a great deal of themselves to their sport with little or no financial reward. It’s not life or death, it’s merely a sport.  There is a million things I could do which would pay alot more than what I make in triathlon at this point.  You grossly overstated I was "horrified" of the drafting in the previous year.  I remember mentioning BKearns and GThomson having some advantage riding together on the bike but I don’t recall mentioning drafting, just having someone to pace off of, that mental advantage I was talking about earlier.   EITHER STOP BAD-MOTHING THE DRAFT-LEGAL RACES OR QUIT DRAFTING. Is that a threat?  It’s looks like a pretty strong statement, and I’m not sure who it’s directed towards.  Who was bad-mouthing draft-legal races?  Are you now supporting draft-legal races, although you hate people that draft?  What is your point?   Nuff said. Andrew Kelsey

Response:

Dear Michele428: Andrew Kelsey is pro triathlete, who is one of those AOL people who doesn’t even know anything about the NET, who just happened to be the top American pro at the triathlon world championships in Cancun last week.  He really doesn’t know much about the sport, except he is pretty fast and he also won his age group at World’s (Canada) a few years ago when he was still a virgin.  Don’t believe a word he says because he doesn’t have much experience at racing.  He’s just lucky as hell.  That’s all. Sincerely, David Roberson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr or Mrs Michele428: I guess I feel a little obligated to reply to your nasty little tantrum you displayed a few weeks ago.   I was warned by several people of the malicious content of the posting, but I was unfortunately only able to read it (and respond to it) today.  Sorry about my untimeliness.   You asked me to reflect on several quotes from my description of the Sentinel race.  The passage was as follows: <begin passage  With 8 strong riders, not a lot of hills or wind, it’s hard for things to split apart.  Some attempts were made by a few riders to break free, but this was virtually impossible given the abilities of all the athletes.  Although it did appear that some athletes were doing more work than others, no one person can be blamed for any wrongdoing.  There was no blatant drafting, everybody was trying to keep a fair distance in the men’s group.  This year was unprecedented in what was to unfold (namely a large group of men in the lead) and I’m sure many of the athletes did not know how to deal with the situation.  One solution is to try and break away, which a few did, unsuccessfully; another is to drop back out of the group, which a few did, successfully (but regretfully I’m sure); another is to attempt to keep within the designated drafting parameters, which I’m sure we violated BUT within the constraints of the race would be almost impossible to uphold considering the narrowness of road, size of the group, aggressiveness of riders, etc., etc. <end passage Your reaction to this statement was as follows: I wanted to puke. (You) have come up with the most absurd and contradictory statements. They absolutely defy logic. You two are almost saying "The Devil made me do it." In one statement you will say you didn’t do any "blatant" drafting and in the next explain why you were compelled to draft. Your explanations are even harder to take when taken in conjunction with how horrified you were about a couple of competitors last year doing drafting. That was nothing compared with what happened this year. My comments reflect what I felt was the closest to the truth and I don’t see anything illogical, contradictory, or absurd about them.  I tried to paint an objective view of what occurred in the race.   I’m not sure what your experience or status is as a triathlete (or even if you are one) but nothing gives you the right to slander my name and threaten me in a public forum such as this.  You point your finger at the top 8 or 10 athletes in the front group in Santa Cruz as criminals where the crime is drafting.  But how do you define drafting?  You seem to have a black and white view of drafting, you either do it or you don’t.  That’s not the case, though.  When I say no "blatant" drafting I mean no one was directly on somebody else’s wheel or shadowing another rider because they were that much weaker (as is apparent in draft-legal races I’ve competed in).  The athletes were in the front for a reason, they were experienced, talented cyclists.  When I say "things are hard to split apart" that’s what I mean, no steep hills or wind to drop a slightly weaker rider.  When I say "some .. doing more work than others" I mean that if we all had started at 1 minute intervals we wouldn’t have finished that way exactly, but with the "group" situation, we did, thus, well you (you figure out the math) some athletes benefited more.  The "group" did not conspire to work together in any way in order to decimate the rest of the field.  There is a mental advantage to riding with a group which has nothing to do with drafting or wind resistance– and that’s the competitiveness between the athlete’s themselves and the alertness needed when having to constantly counter the attacks made which I mentioned were unsuccessful largely because of the abilities of all the riders.  I don’t feel there is any need to expound further on my comments.  You’ve already wasted my time and I could really care less about your "problem".  I’m sure the top athletes of that "pack" could care less to.  I know many of them and they are all hardworking, honest individuals who give a great deal of themselves to their sport with little or no financial reward. It’s not life or death, it’s merely a sport.  There is a million things I could do which would pay alot more than what I make in triathlon at this point.  You grossly overstated I was "horrified" of the drafting in the previous year.  I remember mentioning BKearns and GThomson having some advantage riding together on the bike but I don’t recall mentioning drafting, just having someone to pace off of, that mental advantage I was talking about earlier.   EITHER STOP BAD-MOTHING THE DRAFT-LEGAL RACES OR QUIT DRAFTING. Is that a threat?  It’s looks like a pretty strong statement, and I’m not sure who it’s directed towards.  Who was bad-mouthing draft-legal races?  Are you now supporting draft-legal races, although you hate people that draft?  What is your point?   Nuff said. Andrew Kelsey

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A strong vote of support for the reasonable Mr. Kelsey. Timothy Carlson

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Question:

60 miles a week for a 39 minute 10K!  Good grief. Sounds to me like your potential for faster times is enormous!  I run 42 but have only two runs per week totaling 12 miles.  One fartlek, and one hilly trail run.  I think you could cut down your mileage, and just did a little more quality speed work. Pete Smillie

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 I read somewhere that the best thing you can do to improve your 10K time is to increase your weekly long runs…if you are running about an hour then increase your runs to an hour and a half or two hours over time..i improved my time from 39:05 to 38:44 this year..which isn’t much, but all I did was increased my weekly mileage from 30-40 to at least 50-60.  I hope to improve it more soon.  Also, you can do track sessions of like 4 X 10 minutes with a lap walk inbetween at 15 seconds per mile slower than your 10K race pace.. It doesn’t sound that tough, but by the time you get to the last couple of intervals , you’ll probably feel terrible.  I did.

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As another WAG on this group once said, "To become a better runner (in triathlon), become a better biker!"  It’s hard to run on trashed legs – anything you can do to become more efficient on the bike and save some for the run will help.

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:Can anyone recommend a training schedule for improving 10K times ?. :I’m currently running about 7 minute miles for 10K. This all very well … :I currently run 2/3 times a week 4.5/5.5 miles each and one of these :contains some sprints up a hill. To get down to that level you’ll need to start running more frequently and a bit longer.  Once a week or maybe once every other week you should

All good advice.  I’ve got one more tidbit to toss in.  If you are doing any other running-intensive sports, cut way back.  I play lots of soccer (3+ times a week, usually 2+ hours at a time).  The more distance running I do, the worse my soccer performance is.  The more soccer, the slower my distance pace.  If I cut back on soccer, my distance times quickly drop. Cross training does help, but it takes forever to improve in multiple sports that compete for the use of the same muscle groups.  BTW, neither biking nor swimming impacts soccer much – they actually seem to help. – Tim Iverson

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: :Can anyone recommend a training schedule for improving 10K times ?. :I’m currently running about 7 minute miles for 10K. This all very well :for a fun run or training but it doesn’t really cut the mustard in :competition. In an ideal world I’d like to knock it down to sub 6 :minute miles. I can hold this pace for a couple of miles but find :it quite tough. : :I currently run 2/3 times a week 4.5/5.5 miles each and one of these :contains some sprints up a hill. To get down to that level you’ll need to start running more frequently and a bit longer.  Once a week or maybe once every other week you should do a long run (8 miles +) at a moderate, steady pace.  Build the distance on this slowly week by week.  Try to run at least 5 days per week, with one of the runs being a hard, steady run of moderate distance (4-6 miles).  Another run should be either intervals (preferably on a track) or hill repeats.  Be careful with intervals, though, when building to 5 runs per week.  Perhaps only hill repeats for a month or two.  Intervals build that speed you’ll need to go sub-6.  The remaining two runs should be at an easy to moderate pace.  Remember, also, that you need at least one full day’s rest between the long run, the hard steady run, and the intervals.  Your body will likely break down otherwise. Good luck!  And while your at it, why not throw in some cross-training (biking and swimming) so that we’ll see you at a triathlon next year? — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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Can anyone recommend a training schedule for improving 10K times ?. I’m currently running about 7 minute miles for 10K. This all very well for a fun run or training but it doesn’t really cut the mustard in competition. In an ideal world I’d like to knock it down to sub 6 minute miles. I can hold this pace for a couple of miles but find it quite tough. I currently run 2/3 times a week 4.5/5.5 miles each and one of these contains some sprints up a hill.

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Question:

Your 2 cents accepted. I still think a hilly ten miles is a long way on a plastic seat and cold forged steel frame. I know that I wouldn’t want to do it. My son does like to race but he is also very competetive — in his own right — not only for me. He "races" in every aspect of his life, schoolwork, spelling bees, even stuff that isn’t supposed to be competetive. I was the same way as a kid. I know also that you’re right about a cheap bike being all you need to overcome those kids with the serious equipment. My son won a bike race against a kid with goggles and an aero helmet and a little miniature TREK.  She couldn’t figure out how to shift and was spun out in the last hundred yards. Still, if I find something in the right price range, we’ll probably end up with it. My kid has a spoiling grandma too — –   S. Sanders

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My son does like to race but he is also very competetive — in his own right — not only for me. He "races" in every aspect of his life, schoolwork, spelling bees, even stuff that isn’t supposed to be competetive. I was the same way as a kid.

It would be interesting if we could see these two little guys five or ten years down the line: who still thinks triathlon is a blast and who may not think so. Ruth Kazez

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 I found a 24” wheeled Schwinn Cabrolet (now sold by Giant) for my 9 year old daughter for $ 150.00.  I then had the local bike shop lace up two new 650cm areo Sun rims with skinny tires and tubes for about another $140.00.  They fit fine with only minor brake adjustments. We also found some used brake levers that were 1/4 the weight of the stock ones for $15.00.  So for about $ 300.00, we’ve got her racing for a few years, plus we can always take the rims on up to her next bike.  Goodluck

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My 8 year old son just finished his first tri. He did really well for his first time — did the 5K in 24 minutes, but his bike is a Toys-R-Us piece of crap and it took him about 70 minutes to ride 10 miles. He wasn’t overtired, he just couldn’t get a lot more out of the bike, especially on the hills. Does anyone have any recommendations as to a bike for him. He’s only about 50 inches tall. I don’t want to spend a fortune on something he’ll outgrow in six months either. Thanks in advance. –

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: My 8 year old son just finished his first tri. He did really well for his : first time — did the 5K in 24 minutes, but his bike is a Toys-R-Us piece : of crap and it took him about 70 minutes to ride 10 miles. He wasn’t : overtired, he just couldn’t get a lot more out of the bike, especially on : the hills. : Does anyone have any recommendations as to a bike for him. He’s only : about 50 inches tall. I don’t want to spend a fortune on something he’ll : outgrow in six months either. : Thanks in advance. : – My son started tri-ing last year as an eight year old as well. His first race was a mountain bike duathlon. He was second last out of about 12 kids heading out on the run. I told him to save himself for the end. He came into the run/bike transition in 5th. By the end of the race he had moved up to 3rd. Wow was he happy! He rides on a piece of crap 5 speed mountain bike. He is happy with the bike since it has gears, that’s all he cares about. He does want some real bike shorts like his dad though. In his first tri, he was 11th of 12 (again) out of the outdoor pool, about 3-1/2 min behind the leader,after only a 100m swim. He passed 3 kids on the bike and another 3 on the run, to finish 5th, only 15 seconds out of 3rd place. His grandmother bought him a wetsuit (boy does she spoil him) to help his swim splits. Where is all this leading? Just another proud father? well yes and no. Of course I’m glad he did well, but how he enjoyed the racing experience is more important. I race for fun and so does he. Racing for him is a goal to look forward to and a reason for us to train together. When it comes to bikes… cheap junk is fine for 8 year olds. My son has beaten other 8 year olds with road bikes with disc wheel covers, aero bars, and fancy drinking systems. Don’t waste your money on a fancy bike unless you have tons to spare. I which case I NEED a QR kilo. The important thing is for the child to WANT to race, not to do it for their parents. If they enjoy it, they’ll keep doing it. When the equipment becomes a seriously limiting factor and the kid asks for new wheels, then get a better bike. Just my 2 cents…you asked afterall. TriDork Marcus Perry

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