Question:

For years I used clip on Aero Bars with regular shifters and brakes.  The theory was that how often do you have to shift or break anyway?  I finally moved to the bar end shifters on the end of the aerobars when I got some Angel bars.  The result is that I tend to shift more since it is easier.  I don’t know if it is faster but it is sure a lot more convenient. By the way the Bar end shifters were a real bitch to put on the angel bars. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

Definitely clipless pedals for all the reasons stated in the previous post. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

I say go with STI (brake lever) shifters. This goes against what a lot of people feel. If you do all of your riding alone, on flat courses, maybe bar-end shifters are right for you. If you’re like the rest of us you sometimes do (or will) ride with others in a group or you ride hills. With STI shifters you can shift without changing position. I’ve used both and it’s much easier to shift with STI while you’re in the aero position than it is to take your hand off the bars and reach for the bar-end shifters while your struggling up a hill or riding with a group. STI gives you more control over your bike. I think most triathletes just think of bar-end shifters as going hand in hand with tri-bikes. If you can, ride a bike with each system and see which one you like. The best shifters are the ones you feel most comfortable with. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

Race wheels do make a difference. The faster you are the bigger the advantage. Still, I would wait until you have a couple seasons under your belt before buying them. He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike?

No, that was probably lack of brick training. You should periodically do a bike ride followed by a 3 or 4 mile run to get your legs accustomed to running while fatigued from biking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts:

If your bicycle is adequate – which it seems to be – it’s unlikely that you’ll see much measurable improvement from a new one.  There’s nothing wrong with a new bike if you can afford it and will use it.  Just don’t expect a magic carpet. 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

No contest here.  Clipless pedals (Look, Speedplay, etc.) are far better than soft soled shoes and toe straps.  The stiff soled shoes keep your feet from flexing and bending.  This causes less foot pain and better power transfer. Having your feet locked to the pedals makes for a more efficient stroke. Clipless pedals are much easier to manage than a strap that you have to tighten and loosen, especially during training. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

My setup has evolved to bar end shifters on Syntace C2s and cowhorns.  I’m extremely pleased with it for a racing setup.  Many triathletes stick with their STI shifters even when they’re using cow horns.  My setup is easier to shift from the aero position. The other setup requires you to move your hands down to the drops in order to shift.  I prefer not to move my hands around when I’m on the aero bars. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

Aero wheels are supposedly one of the most productive bike upgrades.  I settled on HED3s but I really can’t see a measurable improvement given the conditions where I’ve used them.  The only way to know for sure would be to  find a suitable stretch of road to do a few time trials where I could switch wheels and compare times.  Until I get the ambition to do that, it’s just another leap of faith. 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike

Another tough question.  It’s accepted that aero bars provide a significant advantage, especially on a flat course.  Seat angle theories and preferences vary.  John Cobb’s recent "Big Slam" position returns to road bike geometry with shorter aero bars.  The most important aspect is to get the proper fit.  Aside from that it’s a matter of going through the evaluations and opinions to find the ones most agreeable to you. I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff.

There are worse places to spend your money.  If having good equipment makes you feel good, then maybe you’ll train and race a little better. Larry

Response:

I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff.

Can’t add much to what has already been said. It feels really cool to have a brand new bike but  remember that bicycles suffer from the law of diminishing returns – the more you spend, the less is the return. It’s mostly the engine that counts. I’ve seen people on old clunkers win their age group. In one race I passed  a brand new Cervelo P2K while riding my old 12 sp. road bike but at the same race was passed (blush) by a  mountain bike fitted with road tires.  IMO I would stick to a road bike until you start to think about half or IM distances. If you can afford only one bike right now stick with a road bike as it is far more versatile. Even the pros spend most of their training time on road bikes. Fit your current $600. road bike with a front aero wheel and a pair of "big slam" aero http://www.bicyclesports.com/accessories/aerobars/slambars.html  bars and you’ve got a bike that will do 98% what anything else will do.

Response:

Approx $120 for clip on aero bars and increase your avg speed by around 2 mph. Clipless pedals (I prefer Look), makes for more efficient transfer of power from your muscles to the bike. A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

If you don’t mind one more opinion… I’ve ridden a lot of road miles and it’s the engine not the chasis. With that being said, I believe clipless pedals are a necessity. Recently I went to a QR Tequila. This is the first time I’ve ridden with anything but Dura Ace and IMO, the Shimano 105 is VERY acceptable. Also, the aero bars were a new experience and now, like the clipless pedals, I believe they are a necessity. A couple of years ago, I did my first sprint tri and posted the question, "Why do triathletes use such big gears?". I got some smart and some smart ass answers but now I know. The body position allows greater leverage so it’s easier to push the big gears. You’ll have to decide for yourself if there’s a penalty for this on the run. I picked up a 2001 QR Tequila for $1,030 which included delivery. Works for me… but some people like Fords, some people like Chevy’s and some… well, you get the point. Enjoy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed.

Actually, aerodynamics is much more important. Studies have demonstrated that bike weight is relatively unimportant accept upon ascending hills, such as if running the Alps section in the Tour de France, etc. . On a two to one ratio in importance the weight of drive train/wheels is is more significant than the non rotating bike parts such as the frame and even that isn’t all that big a deal. Also, it’s the combined weight of the rider and bike. Generally it’s easier to lose a few lbs. off the rider than the bike!! Spending an extra grand for a frame that is a lb. or two lighter is a very expensive purchase for what is really gained.

Response:

I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike?

See if you can test ride a Tri bike and use it in a brick.  I find a forward position helps me feel more ready for a run.  Sound like you are competitive and an aero frame and aero wheels combined with some more bricks could close that "2 minutes" pretty quickly.  You got money burning a hole, what better way to spend it then on bike stuff IMO.  And yes on clipless and bar end shifters. I don’t think bullhorns will make much of a diffence though. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

I am considering spending a lot of money to buy some Zipp wheels.   After your comment I am wondering if this is wise.  Do you think the benefit from upgrading wheels is worth the cash? Thanks in advance…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed. Actually, aerodynamics is much more important. Studies have demonstrated that bike weight is relatively unimportant accept upon ascending hills, such as if running the Alps section in the Tour de France, etc. . On a two to one ratio in importance the weight of drive train/wheels is is more significant than the non rotating bike parts such as the frame and even that isn’t all that big a deal. Also, it’s the combined weight of the rider and bike. Generally it’s easier to lose a few lbs. off the rider than the bike!! Spending an extra grand for a frame that is a lb. or two lighter is a very expensive purchase for what is really gained.

Response:

I am considering spending a lot of money to buy some Zipp wheels.   After your comment I am wondering if this is wise.  Do you think the benefit from upgrading wheels is worth the cash?

Everything I have read indicates that aerobars and aerowheels are the two biggest improvements that can be made to a bike and are highly recommended. Zipp wheels are considered very good. I picked up a decent set of aero wheels off ebay second hand for a very low price, but I’m one of those cheapo types that hardly ever buys anything new because of the depreciation factor. I even bought my aerobars secondhand! As I mentioned previously, bikes suffer from the law of diminishing returns. That last tiny little bit costs a lot of extra money.  It really boils down to how much money you want to spend.

Response:

I’m not a veteran, but I’ve done a lot of reading and I can pass along what I’ve learned. =) 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

Clipless pedals and cycling shoes allow you to transfer more energy to the cranks (well, actually it stops you from wasting energy… but anyways.) Cycling shoes have a stiff sole and transfers all the weight in your foot to the pedal (this is where the clipless pedal comes in), thus eliminating the wasted energy from when your heel sinks downward. Even if you use toe straps, your sole still flexes when you pedal down (especially when you stand) and you tend to lose some energy that would otherwise go to moving you forward. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

You bought aerobars to become more aerodynamic and to waste less energy against drag, right? Well, unless you live/race in a rather hilly area, you stay in the aero position more often by putting your shifters on the aerobars. The bull horns are less aerodynamic, so for the moments that you move out of the aerobars to shift, you use more energy to overcome the extra drag. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

I possess no knowledge of this. =) 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike

A tri bike has a steeper seat tube angle, thus positioning you over the cranks. This forces you to use your quads to pedal more than you use your hams. Also, the steeper angle allows you to get a more aerodynamic position on the aerobars. However, some people prefer a road bike over a tri bike. Hope I helped. –Vincent

Response:

So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

Question:

I have lagged behind getting out the announcements of, and congratulations to the various Southeast Triathlon Championships.  I will try to catch up with this note.  For a list of all 1999 Southeast champions go to   http://www.usat-se.org/chmwinrs99.htm 1999 REGIONAL TRIATHLON CLUB CHAMPIONS JULY 10, SUNFISH SUMMER TRIATHLON 0.5mi/34K/8K Los Locos – Victor Perini, Donny Forsyth, Matthew Bingham, Jennifer LaMotte, M.C. Jerman MISSISSIPPI STATE TRIATHLON CHAMPIONS JULY 24, HEART O’ DIXIE TRIATHLON 0.5mi/27.5mi/7mi   Overall Male:  Joseph Curro 1:53:51   Overall Female:  Amy Davis 2:19:10   Masters Male:  Leonard Vergunst 2:09:05   Masters Female:  Kristin Vergunst 2:28:13   Junior Male: No finishers   Junior Female:  Carrie Cope 3:07:46 TENNESSEE STATE TRIATHLON CHAMPIONS JULY 31, BLUES CITY TRIATHLON 0.5mi/18mi/4mi   Overall Male: Donny Forsyth  1:20:55   Overall Female: Kathleen Johnston  1:31:18   Masters Male:  Rod Bickel  1:31:06   Masters Female: Marianne Bushman  1:39:25   Junior Male: Rehan Mahmood  1:34:55   Junior Female: Margie Baker  2:20:30 ALABAMA STATE TRIATHLON CHAMPIONS AUGUST 14, MOUNTAIN LAKES TRIATHLON 600yd/16.2mi/3mi   Overall Male: Alex Rhudy  1:07:59   Overall Female: Deanna McDonald  1:13:01   Masters Male: Chuck Amsler  1:14:02   Masters Female: Jackie Ryan  1:23:13   Junior Male: Nicholas Cutchens  1:17:08   Junior Female: Elspeth Crawford  1:20:56

Response:

ALABAMA STATE TRIATHLON CHAMPIONS AUGUST 14, MOUNTAIN LAKES TRIATHLON 600yd/16.2mi/3mi   Overall Male: Alex Rhudy  1:07:59   Overall Female: Deanna McDonald  1:13:01   Masters Male: Chuck Amsler  1:14:02

Chuck!!! You didn’t even mention this when we chatted at the race. Now I have to say "Congratulations" electronically.   Masters Female: Jackie Ryan  1:23:13   Junior Male: Nicholas Cutchens  1:17:08   Junior Female: Elspeth Crawford  1:20:56

Charlie, good seeing you (briefly) again. Congrats to Elspeth on another fine victory! David / FEY2K – IMCAL < 15:00:00 reply to wuth – family – atlanta (remove spaces) at att dot net

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Agreed. Especially the U-turn, it destroys your rhythm (sp?). Want to get applause at the next out and back U-turn ? Try this technique offered up over on the triathlon newsgroup – instead of the usual baby steps around the cone, you pirouette with your BACK to the cone.  This takes some visualization… Imagine approaching the turn around. The cone is on your left side as you approach. a) Time you steps so that your right foot lands even with the cone; b) Plant your left foot past the cone and begin to pivot CLOCKWISE on that (left) foot. Your back is to the cone during this pivot; c) As you pivot, keep the weight on the left foot, swinging the right foot around until you can plant it directly back down the direction of desired travel, then push off with the left leg. It’s best to practice this a few times before trying it on race day, but’s it guaranteed to impress.

Tres cool.  However be very careful practising this. I couldn’t visualise it, so I get up from my chair and use my sleeping dog as a pillion.  I do it three times slowly.  Hmmm, this just might work.  I backup to the kitchen and try it a little faster, once again using the dog as the pillion.  Right foot plant, left foot plant and rotate, right foot plant in opposite direction, trip over startled dog and fall on face. I bet you all saw this coming.  Shame I didn’t. <GRIN     Mark Life is the great experiment. Each of us is an experiment of one-observer and subject-making choices, living with them, recording the effects.  - Dr. George Sheehan

Response:

None that I know of. Track _should_ always be faster, but even that is a personal thing. I run short distances faster on a track, but by 5km I run faster times on road, because I find it harder to concentrate for 12.5 monotonous laps than for one long loop. After all that, I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest your mile would be 10s faster on a track than on your out and back course. Nathan

I always thought that running on a track is slower than running on a road if the road is flat (of course it depends on the course your running).  This makes sense since a track has a lot of turns (I’m sure you have noticed) while a road course has less turns than a track (quite a bit less).  It requires less energy to run straight than it does to run a curve. Of course if it is a rubber track and your wearing spikes over short distances you will definately be faster on the track. Running on a track is harder on the body since your always turning.  It puts strain on your hips and knees. Mike Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Road: slight uphill on first half and slight downhill on second half works out to a small net disadvantage. having to stop and do a 180 degree turn at the midpoint is also a disadvantage. Agreed. Especially the U-turn, it destroys your rhythm (sp?).

Want to get applause at the next out and back U-turn ? Try this technique offered up over on the triathlon newsgroup – instead of the usual baby steps around the cone, you pirouette with your BACK to the cone.  This takes some visualization… Imagine approaching the turn around. The cone is on your left side as you approach. a) Time you steps so that your right foot lands even with the cone; b) Plant your left foot past the cone and begin to pivot CLOCKWISE on that (left) foot. Your back is to the cone during this pivot; c) As you pivot, keep the weight on the left foot, swinging the right foot around until you can plant it directly back down the direction of desired travel, then push off with the left leg. It’s best to practice this a few times before trying it on race day, but’s it guaranteed to impress. Mike "Next up – water station follies" Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Response:

Do you wear different shoes on the track?  I’m a pronator, and have been wearing Etonic Stable Air Pro III’s for all my runs…would there be any reason not to wear them on a track?  Should I get some of the "studded" track shoes first?  I’m asking because I have never set foot on a track, but there is one available to me and I would like to try it out for a little speedwork.

I have started using a track recently for trying to match a certain subjective effort level to a pace. You don’t need any special shoes. I think that some runners wear spikes during races to improve their time, but unless you are competitive, your regular shoes will work just fine. Also, if it is a synthetic track, spikes are probably prohibited unless you are training with the track team (I’m assuming that the track is at a school). A friend told me that track running is really tough on a person.  Is there some reason why running a given pace on a track would be any harder on the body than running that same pace on an asphalt road?  How does a track surface compare to asphalt? concrete?  Is it easier to injure yourself running on a track?

Maybe your friend means that training for competitive track racing is really tough on a person? I have heard people suggest that you should change directions on a track from time to time, so that you aren’t always running the curves in the same direction, but you can only do that if it isn’t too crowded. BTW, one advantage to running a mile on a track is that you get to check your pace every couple hundred meters. So if you think that you can run a mile in, say, 6 minutes, just calculate your splits and hit each line at the right time, regardless of how you feel. — Harold

Response:

Road: slight uphill on first half and slight downhill on second half works out to a small net disadvantage. having to stop and do a 180 degree turn at the midpoint is also a disadvantage.

Agreed. Especially the U-turn, it destroys your rhythm (sp?). Track: lots of curves to negotiate…

True, but they are so broad that you should be able to go around them flat out. Are there really any good ways to guesstimate a track time from a road time?

None that I know of. Track _should_ always be faster, but even that is a personal thing. I run short distances faster on a track, but by 5km I run faster times on road, because I find it harder to concentrate for 12.5 monotonous laps than for one long loop. After all that, I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest your mile would be 10s faster on a track than on your out and back course. Nathan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Road: slight uphill on first half and slight downhill on second half works out to a small net disadvantage. having to stop and do a 180 degree turn at the midpoint is also a disadvantage. Agreed. Especially the U-turn, it destroys your rhythm (sp?). Track: lots of curves to negotiate… True, but they are so broad that you should be able to go around them flat out. Are there really any good ways to guesstimate a track time from a road time? None that I know of. Track _should_ always be faster, but even that is a personal thing. I run short distances faster on a track, but by 5km I run faster times on road, because I find it harder to concentrate for 12.5 monotonous laps than for one long loop. After all that, I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest your mile would be 10s faster on a track than on your out and back course. Nathan

Do you wear different shoes on the track?  I’m a pronator, and have been wearing Etonic Stable Air Pro III’s for all my runs…would there be any reason not to wear them on a track?  Should I get some of the "studded" track shoes first?  I’m asking because I have never set foot on a track, but there is one available to me and I would like to try it out for a little speedwork. A friend told me that track running is really tough on a person.  Is there some reason why running a given pace on a track would be any harder on the body than running that same pace on an asphalt road?  How does a track surface compare to asphalt? concrete?  Is it easier to injure yourself running on a track? Thanks for any suggestions or advice. AD

Response:

I recently found an excellent stretch of road for doing a fast mile. It has a very slight but very constant grade from the start to the 1/2 mile mark, and is perfectly straight. I run to the 1/2 mile mark and back, thus giving me no net elevation change.  I was wondering how my time over this route would compare to my time doing a mile at a track. Both options have distinct disadvantages — Road: slight uphill on first half and slight downhill on second half works out to a small net disadvantage. having to stop and do a 180 degree turn at the midpoint is also a disadvantage. Track: lots of curves to negotiate… Are there really any good ways to guesstimate a track time from a road time? AD

Response:

Question:

I have seen a poster in gyms and doctor’s offices from Stairmaster that is titled "99 Reasons to Exercise in ‘99" (or maybe the ‘97 or ‘98 versions) (I wonder what they’ll do in 2000, grin).  What I’m wondering is: How do I get a copy of this thing?  Nobody I talk to knows where they got the poster!  I am planning to call Stairmaster on Monday during business hours, but I’m curious to know if anyone here knows how to purchase it using the web, or where to call, etc.

Check out the FitnessWorld web site at http://www.fitnessworld.com/posters/posters.html    -Phil

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First, let me start with the obligatory lurker’s comment that I consider this to be one of the most useful newsgroups out there.  The postings here have been very inspirational, and have kept me committed to running at times when it’s felt painful (e.g. before I learned the importance of stretching!).  I consider running to be a bit complicated compared with, e.g., biking, because I injured myself several times while running before realizing key points such as (1) don’t increase mileage more than 10% per week, (2) follow a slow ten week walking-to-running conversion program (such as Runner’s World Complete Book of Running, 1997, pp. 6-7), and (3) make sure to do many different types of stretches after running to ensure running (or sometimes even walking) is still possible the next day.  I have been running for only 8 weeks now (I am on week #8 of my walking-to-running conversion program), but I have already noticed many physical changes, e.g. more muscle, less fat.  I look forward to my (currently, but increasing) 3 mile run 5 days each week as the high point of my day.  (As an aside, the "Ease into This Running Program" idea consists of a mixture of running and walking.  During week 1, 33% of the time is running.  During week 2, 50% of the time is running.  …… By week 9, 93% of the time is running.  And by week 10, 100% of the 30 minute period is ran.)  So long as I don’t get injured to the point where my doctor tells me to stop running forever, my long-term goals are to complete a marathon and/or a triathalon.  I feel that setting goals like these will help me to continue to be committed to such a healthy activity as running. Now that my obligatory comment is complete, on to my question. I have seen a poster in gyms and doctor’s offices from Stairmaster that is titled "99 Reasons to Exercise in ‘99" (or maybe the ‘97 or ‘98 versions) (I wonder what they’ll do in 2000, grin).  What I’m wondering is: How do I get a copy of this thing?  Nobody I talk to knows where they got the poster!  I am planning to call Stairmaster on Monday during business hours, but I’m curious to know if anyone here knows how to purchase it using the web, or where to call, etc. Any info is appreciated. Have a good one, Eric J. Oman

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Question:

Does anyone know where the age group results can be found on the net?   I am a 40 year old age grouper from a small town in southern Ill and have an unusual predicament.  My 10 year old seems to have some potential at this triathlon stuff.  He was second in the adult sprint in the 10-15 age group and the first u.s. kid.  What the heck do I do with this kid now?  There are no other tri kids within a 100 miles.  It is is fourth tri and his second international race.  He was 3rd in the Cape Giraudo Mo Steamboat race in may in the 19 and under division.   Any suggestions would be appreciated    Keith Kibler

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: Does anyone know where the age group results can be found on the net? On the web at: usatriathlon.org/mrststri.htm.

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Question:

Does anyone know of any mountain bike triathlons or duathlons in Kentucky or Georgia this summer? David J Scott   303-786-3426 http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/8015

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http://www.msm.edu/groups/tri-atlanta/ Are MTB tri’s necessarily "off road"?  The only version of this flavor of triathlon that I have seen in Georgia has been as a separate category of an "on road" triathlon, like Clydesdale.  Don’t kow if that interests you.  It is basically an off road bike race – - on the road!  : ) You might try contacting someone at the above web site. Robert

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Question:

Having been exposed to the drafting issue from multiple fronts (rst, magazines, actual participation in ITU events), one aspect really puzzles me, and that’s the safety aspect of drafting.  In cycling, there are various rules in place to increase safety: 1) Categorization System:  Racers are categorized by ability.  Cat 5 (least experienced) to Cat 1 (most experienced and proven).  This separates inexperienced (and potentially dangerous) cyclists from the more experienced riders.  All national level races (and many regional and local ones) are typically Cat 1.  Moving from Cat 5 to Cat 1 can take years. 2) Equipment:  Bicycles geometries (ie. no funny bikes) and equipment (ie. no aero-bars) are enforced. Why hasn’t the ITU, as an international sports governing body, examined the safety implications of drafting?  I haven’t even heard a single *official* mention of it (although there have been posts and mag articles to that effect).  IMHO, there’s a real potential for serious injury or death, with a much higher likelihood than in cycling events without these safety precautions. Drafting should proceed if and only if: 1) A categorization process is identified and followed.  All draft-legal participants should have Cat-x (should really be Cat 1, but I guess that would be up for debate) certification through a recognized cycling federation (eg. USCF in the States). The implication on Triathlon is that many pros would be forced to undergo Cat registration, which means that a large percentage of them could not race for (potentially) a year or more! 2) Strict enforcement of equipment restrictions.  All draft-legal participants should only race on crit-legal machines.  This means no aero bars, no beam bikes, no funny bikes, just standard road frames. The implication here is: say goodbye to all tri-bike related sponsorships, as well as the "techno-attractiveness" of the sport.  On the other hand, it also levels the playing field, in that a $1200 road bike is pretty comparable to a $4000 road bike (in contrast to tri bikes).  Auugh! Please don’t flame me on that last point! 3) <Insert others Here <Insert Impact here I love the sport of triathlon, and would *prefer* that it stay in the draft-illegal format (albeit somewhat selfishly – it’s what I train for).  On the other hand, if it evolves, the 8+ years of investment I’ve spent (time, money & tears) on triathlon would not allow me to walk away… I would have to adjust as well.  I just want to ensure that the various sports governing bodies do the following: A) For God’s sake, ensure safety!!!  Les, please respect the safety of athletes and the well-being of their families. B) Follow a democratic process If the above two conditions are met, I will accept a change (must admit B) is completely off topic of this post).  If not, I will fight like hell. On a completely unrelated topic I just purchased a set of 650c Specialized Tri-pokes.  Yipee! Rob.

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Having been exposed to the drafting issue from multiple fronts (rst, magazines, actual participation in ITU events), one aspect really puzzles me, and that’s the safety aspect of drafting.  In cycling, there are various rules in place to increase safety: 1) Categorization System:  Racers are categorized by ability.  Cat 5 (least experienced) to Cat 1 (most experienced and proven).  This separates inexperienced (and potentially dangerous) cyclists from the more experienced riders.  All national level races (and many regional and local ones) are typically Cat 1.  Moving from Cat 5 to Cat 1 can take years.

That’s why drafting is only being allowed in the elite ranks.   2) Equipment:  Bicycles geometries (ie. no funny bikes) and equipment (ie. no aero-bars) are enforced. Why hasn’t the ITU, as an international sports governing body, examined the safety implications of drafting?  I haven’t even heard a single *official* mention of it (although there have been posts and mag articles to that effect).  IMHO, there’s a real potential for serious injury or death, with a much higher likelihood than in cycling events without these safety precautions.

USA Tri has very specific bike geo specs that nearly match cyclings.  As far as aerobar use that’s an issue that the ITU has talked about (they asked my committee for our opinion) but I’ve seen no action.  I posted my committee’s response some time ago.  Here it is again: BACKGROUND:   At the ITU’s request Steve Locke asked the TriFed/USA Safety & Rules   committee to come up with a position statement on the safety of aerobar   use in draft-legal races.  This following position statement has nothing   to do with the committee’s opinion on allowing/dis-allowing drafting in   triathlons in general. POSITION STATMENT:   The TriFed/USA Safety & Rules committee has reached a consensus opinion   that aerobar use in draft-legal races will significantly increase the   safety risk for competitors.  For this reason we feel that, if drafting   is legal in a specific race, the athletes should not be permitted to ride   in the aero-position, on aerobars, when drafting.  At all other times   aerobar use should be allowed.  Drafting can be defined per the current   applicable rules.  The "aero-position" could be defined as "anytime the   athlete’s elbows/forearms are resting on the bicycle".  We leave all   other detailed rule development to the ITU. —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

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1) Categorization System:  Racers are categorized by ability.  Cat 5 2) Equipment:  Bicycles geometries (ie. no funny bikes) and equipment (ie. no aero-bars) are enforced.

Another equipment requirement is full jerseys (no sleeve-less tops) and shorts to at least mid-thigh. This provides good protection against road rash (a lot of riders will wear two jerseys or a t-shirt under their jersey). Now consider the fact that triathletes will be dizzy from swimming and sprinting through transition, and will then ride their funny bikes in speedos and no tops…. CV

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As pointed out by Karen Smyers, it was ironic at Cancun that the ITU series champion Brad Beven stacked his bike in a pack incident. As one of the more experienced pack riders there, does’nt this constitute the writing on the wall as far as the ITU are concerned ? tim

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Question:

I have only had two.  One each before IMC 1994 and 1995. <sad attempt at humor mode on

I too had a triathlon dream the night before IMC this year.  All I can remember though is crossing the finish line, arms raised, and the clock read 12:09.  This indeed turned out to be just a "dream" as I actually finished well behind that time . Niels Bauer…TriAg

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…. I’m talking abouthaving dreams while sleeping, that involve triathlons. Does anyone else have these?

When I have these dreams, they’re usually a signal that I haven’t been training enough (usually swimming, which of course is my weakest of the three).   In my dreams, I’m suddenly mysteriously entered in a huge race (usually Ironman Canada.  I’m doing it next year – early anxiety dreams?) for which I have done absolutely *no* swim training. Sometimes I don’t even have a wetsuit with me.  And of course I always miss the swim start.  When I do finally get there, the swim is usually half over with many people already coming out of the water!  My motto in these dreams has been:  "Well, I paid my $300 to do this.  I might as well get in the damn water and get it over with.  I hope I don’t drown!  I hope I can actually finish before the 2 hours are up!  I don’t want to be DQ’ed!" The only other dreams I’ve had, have been marathon related.  Once again I’m entered without having done any training.  Race day arrives and I’m totally unprepared.  When I start running, I feel like I’m pushing really hard, but I’m hardly moving at all!  Everyone is passing me! Even children and really old fat people!!  Definitely a signal that I should get out and start doing some long runs! At least in my tri dreams, when I finally get in the water, I just smoke.  I peg people off as though they are simply treading water. But they’re not!  Has someone strapped a motor on me?  Suddenly, I’m finishing the swim somewhere in the top ten of my age group! Sadly, as I’m running up the beach towards transition (earlier in the season it was the pool deck), I awaken never to know if I maintained my place in my age group – or better yet started pegging off more people on the bike (my strongest) or the run. But at least it gets me back out to the pool and into some serious training.  Maybe my dream will come true! Fiona

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Me too!  I used to have dreams about swimming all the time.  I’d wake up and the sheets would be everywhere.  One time I even ripped my waterbed sheets halfway apart (try explaining that to your parents…).  I used to cramps all the  time, but usually in my back and arms.  Crazy, but I used to consider them extra workouts!  The only problem is that you never seem to go as fast in dreams! Michael Holm

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I have only had two.  One each before IMC 1994 and 1995. <sad attempt at humor mode on Maybe this will be the new way to train – dream of all those miles we will do… <apology for bad humor mode on -Rolf — Rolf "Ironman" Arands, Ph.D.     |  (Back by popular demand…)     |         "Do."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not talking about hoping to one day blast past Greg Welch at the finish line in Kona, I’m talking abouthaving dreams while sleeping, that involve triathlons. Does anyone else have these? I dream alot, especially after I eat cheese just before bedtime. A few nights ago I was in the midst of some really great hill climbing bike training workout (some of my best workouts are when I’m dreaming) when BANG!! Calf cramp!!! I awoke as if the 3rd world war had started. I was clutching my calf and screaming my mantra (Oh Fuck,Oh Fuck….for those of you that haven’t read that thread). Of course my wife jumped up in the other side of the bed begging "What’s wrong…What’s wrong? When I told her, her concern instantly changed to laughter. Some caring spouse huh? When I was a ski pro I used to have skiing dreams (sometimes still do) and wake up in the middle of a wicked eggbeater crash with aching body parts etc. This was my first dreamed tri injury, or should I say injury sustained while dreaming. My run yesterday was definitely lopsided as my calf still ached somewhat. My swim today was also affected a little. Am I the only one that hurts themselves while sleeping or do you too? What’s your best/worst tri dream (while sleeping, not your favourite tri fantasy, that’s another topic altogether) TriDork

God, yeah, I have tri dreams!  But for some stupid reason they are usually along the lines of those dreams you have of being in school and suddenly realizing you’re walking down the hall in your underwear!   My tri dreams almost always involve missing my start or not having some important piece of equipment in my transition area or getting totally lost on the bike or run course.  But missing my wave start is by far the most prevalent!  Usually, I’m standing there waiting to jump into the water, and I suddenly realize I’ve forgotten something for the bike or the run; I head for the car to retrieve whatever it is, and by the time I return all the waves are long gone, and I’m all alone <:-(.  *sniff*  Gee, almost makes me want to cry….. Tri-Baby —                                    _                       o         –    o      ’               /|_      -    </_  `     ‘          _ / _       – __/    /o_         (( )  ( ))       –  /

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I’m not talking about hoping to one day blast past Greg Welch at the finish line in Kona, I’m talking abouthaving dreams while sleeping, that involve triathlons. Does anyone else have these? I dream alot, especially after I eat cheese just before bedtime. A few nights ago I was in the midst of some really great hill climbing bike training workout (some of my best workouts are when I’m dreaming) when BANG!! Calf cramp!!! I awoke as if the 3rd world war had started. I was clutching my calf and screaming my mantra (Oh Fuck,Oh Fuck….for those of you that haven’t read that thread). Of course my wife jumped up in the other side of the bed begging "What’s wrong…What’s wrong? When I told her, her concern instantly changed to laughter. Some caring spouse huh? When I was a ski pro I used to have skiing dreams (sometimes still do) and wake up in the middle of a wicked eggbeater crash with aching body parts etc. This was my first dreamed tri injury, or should I say injury sustained while dreaming. My run yesterday was definitely lopsided as my calf still ached somewhat. My swim today was also affected a little. Am I the only one that hurts themselves while sleeping or do you too? What’s your best/worst tri dream (while sleeping, not your favourite tri fantasy, that’s another topic altogether) TriDork They don’t call me that for nothin’

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Question:

In general, I found most of the riders’ positions fairly aggressive.  I thought that Paula was riding with a flatter back than I’ve ever seen her, as were most of the top men.  What I was surprised about most was that many of the top men, Dave, Greg, and Ken Glah, were riding what I would consider too stretched out, i.e., stems too long.

Probably due to John Howard’s article saying Dave Scott needed a "man size stem". If its in print it must be true . kbb Kim B. Blair, Ph.D.                     Senior Staff Scientist 1033 Massachusetts Ave                  (617) 354-3124 Cambridge, MA  02138                    (617) 491-4522 (fax)

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In general, I found most of the riders’ positions fairly aggressive.  I thought that Paula was riding with a flatter back than I’ve ever seen her, as were most of the top men.  What I was surprised about most was that many of the top men, Dave, Greg, and Ken Glah, were riding what I would consider too stretched out, i.e., stems too long.

John Howards "analysis" of Dave Scotts position in Triathlete criticized him for to short a stem.  I thought it looked pretty long too though. If you ever talk to Dave Scott please ask him if he’s going to do a second edition of his book.  It badly needs an update and I’m sure he would change alot of things.        

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Apparently Scott Molina feels that his back problems are at least partly attributable to the aero position.  Maybe people are trying to save their backs.

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(Keolani Taitano) writes:

<<John Howards "analysis" of Dave Scotts position in Triathlete criticized him for to short a stem.  I thought it looked pretty long too though. I think John himself felt a little funny about his analysis.  When I asked him about it he kind of begged off.  He said he did it at the behest of a certain magazine editor, and did it solely off the photo in the mag. Also, I think it was to a certain amount tongue in cheek, with little double entendres, like "He needs a MAN sized stem." QRman

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(Keolani Taitano) writes:

<<Apparently Scott Molina feels that his back problems are at least partly attributable to the aero position.  Maybe people are trying to save their backs. Scott came out of retirement this year, after basically giving up through not finding a way to ride comfortably in racing as well as training. Since then he has proven himself the top American in both our national and world championships.  He must be riding some comfortable bike.   QRman

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(Keolani Taitano) writes: John Howards "analysis" of Dave Scotts position in Triathlete criticized

him for to short a stem.  I thought it looked pretty long too though.<< To John’s credit– Triathlete gave  Howard only *one* single photo of Dave on his bike to make the analyisis. Obviously, you need more than a photo which captures about 1/500 of a second to make any significant observation. Accuracy and service to the reader wasn’t the main agenda there. New editor Katovsky is often more interested in causing a commotion than reality or technical advancements. When he was editor of Inside Triathlon,  tech editor Lennard Zinn used a Michellie Jones bike picture as a bad position in Inside Triathlon. How can anyone judge someone’s position, good or bad, by looking at a few photos that represent 1/500 (or even less) of a second in time. I doubt if Zinn had ever actually seen Jones ride for any lenghth of time. I’ve watched Jones race many, many times and I think she has developed a very good position. JJ

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(Keolani Taitano) writes: <<Apparently Scott Molina feels that his back problems are at least partly attributable to the aero position.  Maybe people are trying to save their backs. Scott came out of retirement this year, after basically giving up through not finding a way to ride comfortably in racing as well as training. Since then he has proven himself the top American in both our national and world championships.  He must be riding some comfortable bike.   QRman

Could it be a…..QUINTANA ROO???        

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: : I couldn’t help but notice while watching the IM that Jurgen : Zack’s bike position appears to be very scrunched up.  His back : is incredibly rounded and he sits rather tall.  Do you think he : could go even faster with better positioning? : I’ve noticed the same thing during last year’s coverage.  A lot of other : top triathletes look like they are riding with their handlebars raised : quite high, and seem to be catching a lot of wind with their chests. : A "pure cycling" friend who watched the race also commented on how : poor many of the guys were positioned.  But then he said he doesn’t have : to run a marathon after riding and people like Zack may be sacrificing : aerodynamic efficiency for comfort, which can help in such a long race. I also wondered if they might be sacrificing aerodynamics for power.  It seems to me that a higher position in the front would allow you to climb a steeper grade without sitting up from the aerobars. Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.

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quite high, and seem to be catching a lot of wind with their chests. A "pure cycling" friend who watched the race also commented on how poor many of the guys were positioned.  But then he said he doesn’t have to run a marathon after riding and people like Zack may be sacrificing aerodynamic efficiency for comfort, which can help in such a long race.

I think the "comfort theory" is it.  There is no way I can maintain the same position in a 40K TT that I can in 112 miles! —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (303) 229-3117

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Monti) writes:

<<I couldn’t help but notice while watching the IM that Jurgen Zack’s bike position appears to be very scrunched up.  His back is incredibly rounded and he sits rather tall.  Do you think he could go even faster with better positioning? Jurgen has a very bad back.  He has almost no lumbar flexibility. Actually, though, his riding position is to some degree an optical illusion.  He is not as high in front as you might think.  Although he is not as low as some, his armrests are still several centimeters below the top of his saddle.  He looks higher than he is because his back is so arched.  When he used to ride our bikes I thought we was in a very unaerodynamic position until I actually measured his armrests relative to his saddle, and it was quite surprising. In general, I found most of the riders’ positions fairly aggressive.  I thought that Paula was riding with a flatter back than I’ve ever seen her, as were most of the top men.  What I was surprised about most was that many of the top men, Dave, Greg, and Ken Glah, were riding what I would consider too stretched out, i.e., stems too long. I was also surprised, as some of you were, by the low saddles.  Jurgen’s leg length was quite short, lots of bend in the knee.  In fact, I’m so surprised by it I wonder if it’s a camera thing. QRman

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I couldn’t help but notice while watching the IM that Jurgen Zack’s bike position appears to be very scrunched up.  His back is incredibly rounded and he sits rather tall.  Do you think he could go even faster with better positioning?

I’ve noticed the same thing during last year’s coverage.  A lot of other top triathletes look like they are riding with their handlebars raised quite high, and seem to be catching a lot of wind with their chests. A "pure cycling" friend who watched the race also commented on how poor many of the guys were positioned.  But then he said he doesn’t have to run a marathon after riding and people like Zack may be sacrificing aerodynamic efficiency for comfort, which can help in such a long race. But as you noticed, Zack looks scruched up and uncomfortable.  Maybe he’s discovered a better position?  Soon everyone will be using the "Zack Position" and IT will do a big story about right before it’s banned by the ITU. 8^) Todd Jensen                                   o AT&T Bell Labs              ___^o_    __o    <| Naperville, IL                      _ <_    _

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I couldn’t help but notice while watching the IM that Jurgen Zack’s bike position appears to be very scrunched up.  His back is incredibly rounded and he sits rather tall.  Do you think he could go even faster with better positioning? David F. Monti, Race Results Weekly "Race results by fax first thing every Monday morning…"

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I couldn’t help but notice while watching the IM that Jurgen Zack’s bike position appears to be very scrunched up.  His back is incredibly rounded and he sits rather tall.  Do you think he could go even faster with better positioning?

i noticed this about several competitors.  most of them seemed to be fairly stretched out and relaxed up top but their saddles were so low their legs were nowhere near fully extended (i think dave scott was one and pnf another).  is this an effort to minimize their front surface area to reduce drag?  is it just their personal preference?  i prefer my legs to be *almost* fully extended.  i just can’t get any power w/my legs all scrunched up.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stuff about indoor bike hurting knees deleted…. 1) Is there a particular reason they are not used for tri training or are they.  I hardly ever see them mentioned. 2) Is it just because I cant shift gears or that I’m not clipped in. Any response will be appreciated. – BTW anyone who is recovering from a running injury I highly recommend using a Trackmaster it is verrry easy on the joints and frame. Mr. Brown

Mr. Brown.. These are just some things you would want to consider as potential reasons for the knee pain on the indoor bike The geometry and set up of the indoor bike could be very different than your regular road bike. Some of the main differences could be:                                 1. Fore/Aft of Saddle position.       2. Seat height (even a little as 1cm or less can          affect things).       3. Crank length.       4. Pedal style (lack of rotation or inablility for          "normal" pedal stroke i.e. can’t "pull" because your          foot is not fixed to the pedal). All of these factors have been known to cause knee pain.  The lack of fine adjustment of indoor bikes can be a problem.  If you are really concerned, take some measurements of you road bike and compare.   Good luck, John K. PS. Keep the cadence up. Slow cadence can also aggravate knees. (just my opinions)

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Dear well informed tri-people, I occasionally ride the Lifecycles at the gym. In fact at one time I was putting in quite a few hours. I always ride the hill training session on level 8.  I also use them for what I like to call Indoors, swim 1k, Lifecycle hard for 48 min then run 4 miles on the Trackmaster, which I consider a valuable traing tool for myself.  Now, during the summer, I almost exclusivley ride outdoors, which I much rather do.  :^)  However I rode it several times again very hard and my knee hurts a little, I generally have very little knee pain from real cycling. My leg is extended and I keep the cadence at ~90. My friend says I ride it too hard and I should slow down my cadence or move up a level, I respond I feel like I strain too much with a slower cadence and I’m not sure if moving up will hurt more. 1) Is there a particular reason they are not used for tri training or are they.  I hardly ever see them mentioned. 2) Is it just because I cant shift gears or that I’m not clipped in. Any response will be appreciated. – BTW anyone who is recovering from a running injury I highly recommend using a Trackmaster it is verrry easy on the joints and frame. Mr. Brown

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