Question:

Ummm, hate to burst your bubble but sprint is 750m.

You need a sharper needle. While some sprints are half olympics, it’s hardly standard, and I see far more sprints doing 400m/y or half mile for the swim.  I don’t know of a single event in CA that uses 750m.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

Another factor to consider is the design of the pool.  There are several details in construction that make a pool "fast" or "slow."  

Definitely, there are fast and slow pools for all the reasons you mentioned. Deep water (at least 6 feet at both ends) pools are also generally faster than shallower pools. And currents and water agitation in the pool can have a huge effect on time though not as much as they do in true open water. (In Susis Maroney’s 112 mile Cuba-Key West swim, she averaged an incredible 4.6 miles per hour by swimming with strong currents)

Response:

I swim in several different pools locally:  2 different 25 M indoor pools and 1 outdoor pool that is allegedly 100 M, designed primarily for recreation, but tolerates lap swimmers in the mornings.  Normally, I do 100 M repeats at both 25 M pools in the 1:40 – 1:45 range.  Going all out, I get a little better than 1:30. This morning, I did several "100 M" (1 lap) repeats at the outdoor pool and noticed my times appeared hideous by comparison:  all were in the 2:10 – 2:15 range.  These were done with comparable intensity and rest times with which I do the 1:40 – 1:45 100’s in the 25 M pools. In all cases, I followed the black line, except to dodge the occasional wader.  I realize that I am not used to swimming in the near open water environment of the outdoor pool, but I simply can’t see how such a huge discrepancy between times can be explained by open water vs. lap swimming.  I don’t do flip turns and my open turns are not particularly efficient.  Thus, I think the outdoor "100 M" pool is actually longer than 100 M.   My question is for those of you who swim in open water:  how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in a 25 M pool?  Unless you swim off course in the open water or do hideously bad turns, I wouldn’t expect a difference of more than a few percent. Am I right?  I realize that doing laps in a 25 M pool actually means that I’m swimming slightly less than 25 M per lap, but the difference couldn’t be more than a couple of feet per lap for me, since I do open turns and bring most of my body within inches of the walls.  

Response:

Ummm, hate to burst your bubble but sprint is 750m. -Andrew Boulder, CO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the link and info.  Now, for a little mathematical extrapolation:  for men swimming the 400 M freestyle (closest thing to most sprint triathlons), going from a 25 M pool to a 50 M pool increases their time by 3.4%.  Since a 25 M pool means 4 turns per 100 M and a 50 M pool means 2 turns per 100 M, we can conclude that each turn removed per 100 M will increase time by 1.7%.  Since open water removes all 4, we get a 6.8% increase in time for switching from 25 M to open water.  For switching to a 100 M pool, we’d get 5.1% increase in time. And from looking at that link you posted, it doesn’t look like 100 M is a widely accepted "official" pool length, thus I wouldn’t expect any great effort on part of engineers and contractors to make a pool exactly 100 M.  Of course, it’s also possible that the other 2 pools I use that are supposed to be 25 M are actually only 25 yards.  In that case 400 M in the 100 M pool would take me 15% longer than 400 yds in a 25 yd pool.  But that’s still not enough to explain the ~25% discrepancy I’m seeing. And since the pool is roughly a stretched out hexagon shape, I’d probably need to bring a chalk line and a partner in order to measure it from the pool deck.

Response:

First of all, I’ve seen many promotions for "sprint" triathlons with swims of 400 M, 600 M, 800 M, 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, etc.  Of the 3 or 4 I’m doing this year, one has a 400 M swim, another 600, and another 800. Second, if you look at the tables on the link she posted, you’ll notice that what they’re giving you (on the last table) is a conversion factor for calculating your times in a 25 M pool based on your times in a 50 M pool.  That’s what I used in my calculations. Logic dictates that these conversion factors must level off at some non-zero value as the length of the swim is increased.  Since both a 400 M and 750 M triathlon swim would be done at a similar pace for most swimmers, and no conversion factor was available for anything longer than 400 M, I used the 400 M conversion factor as the best estimate for anything 400 M and over. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ummm, hate to burst your bubble but sprint is 750m. -Andrew Boulder, CO Thanks for the link and info.  Now, for a little mathematical extrapolation:  for men swimming the 400 M freestyle (closest thing to most sprint triathlons), going from a 25 M pool to a 50 M pool increases their time by 3.4%.  Since a 25 M pool means 4 turns per 100 M and a 50 M pool means 2 turns per 100 M, we can conclude that each turn removed per 100 M will increase time by 1.7%.  Since open water removes all 4, we get a 6.8% increase in time for switching from 25 M to open water.  For switching to a 100 M pool, we’d get 5.1% increase in time. And from looking at that link you posted, it doesn’t look like 100 M is a widely accepted "official" pool length, thus I wouldn’t expect any great effort on part of engineers and contractors to make a pool exactly 100 M.  Of course, it’s also possible that the other 2 pools I use that are supposed to be 25 M are actually only 25 yards.  In that case 400 M in the 100 M pool would take me 15% longer than 400 yds in a 25 yd pool.  But that’s still not enough to explain the ~25% discrepancy I’m seeing. And since the pool is roughly a stretched out hexagon shape, I’d probably need to bring a chalk line and a partner in order to measure it from the pool deck.

Response:

Another factor to consider is the design of the pool.  There are several details in construction that make a pool "fast" or "slow."  Lane lines help break up waves and keep the water in the pool flatter.  It sounds like the 100M outdoor pool you swim in does not have lane lines.  This allows waves from all of the waders to travel through out the pool.  This will slow a swimmer down, especially free style/crawl.  Another design factor is the edge of the pool.  A simple straight wall that extends above the water level will reflect the waves back toward the swimmer, slowing him/her down.  Edges that stop right at the water level that incorporate a scupper/drain system and/or reverse lip will break off the waves (for the lack of better term) and keep the water flatter.  The pool bottom also plays an important role in breaking up wave energy.  I know it sounds funny, but different pools have different "personalities" that contribute to speed (for some people, I’m slow no matter what . Brett

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I swim in several different pools locally:  2 different 25 M indoor pools and 1 outdoor pool that is allegedly 100 M, designed primarily for recreation, but tolerates lap swimmers in the mornings.  Normally, I do 100 M repeats at both 25 M pools in the 1:40 – 1:45 range.  Going all out, I get a little better than 1:30. This morning, I did several "100 M" (1 lap) repeats at the outdoor pool and noticed my times appeared hideous by comparison:  all were in the 2:10 – 2:15 range.  These were done with comparable intensity and rest times with which I do the 1:40 – 1:45 100’s in the 25 M pools. In all cases, I followed the black line, except to dodge the occasional wader.  I realize that I am not used to swimming in the near open water environment of the outdoor pool, but I simply can’t see how such a huge discrepancy between times can be explained by open water vs. lap swimming.  I don’t do flip turns and my open turns are not particularly efficient.  Thus, I think the outdoor "100 M" pool is actually longer than 100 M. My question is for those of you who swim in open water:  how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in a 25 M pool?  Unless you swim off course in the open water or do hideously bad turns, I wouldn’t expect a difference of more than a few percent. Am I right?  I realize that doing laps in a 25 M pool actually means that I’m swimming slightly less than 25 M per lap, but the difference couldn’t be more than a couple of feet per lap for me, since I do open turns and bring most of my body within inches of the walls.

Response:

That said, I’m now trying to figure out a way to measure this pool.

Have you looked to see if there is some sort of standard-sized element included as part of the pool’s construction?  I’d look for tile squares along the water line or joints in the pool deck.  If there is concrete anywhere near this pool (even in a parallel sidewalk) it’s likely to have regular construction joints in it. If you can find something of the sort you could simply count these things and measure one to determine the length. John

Response:

SNIP I’m curious, when you say "100m", you mean 100m end to end, not 50m and you get 100 by doing a lap, out and back? Wow, it would be cool to have access to that kind of distance!

Kits pool in Vancouver is 137m long IIRC. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom

Response:

…how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in

a 25 M pool? Without using a wetsuit, and swimming in calm, 78-80 degree, fresh water without much of a current, I typically swim about 7-8 seconds per 100m slower in open water vs. a 25m pool.  This is of course for distances greater than 500m.  For shorter distances, I’d probably only drop 4-5 seconds per 100m. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

Response:

My question is for those of you who swim in open water:  how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in a 25 M pool?  Unless you swim off course in the open water or do hideously bad turns, I wouldn’t expect a difference of more than a few percent. Am I right?  I realize that doing laps in a 25 M pool actually means that I’m swimming slightly less than 25 M per lap, but the difference couldn’t be more than a couple of feet per lap for me, since I do open turns and bring most of my body within inches of the walls.

Conversion between 25M pools and 50M pools puts a 100M swim (male) of similar effort as about 3% faster in a 25M pool than in a standard 50M long course one (nifty conversion applet at http://www.swiminfo.com/results/conversions.asp) for ‘official’ purposes. So I’d guess maybe 7-8% slower for a correct distance 100M pool than a 25M one. You’re getting power from every turn (whether it be open or flip) and a bit of a rest for the arms on every turn. As for getting the real distance of the pool, I’d just bring along an ordinary tape measure next time you go swim. Put a shoe or something to anchor the tip, unroll to 20M. Mark, reanchor the tip of the tape measure, and repeat.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is for those of you who swim in open water:  how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in a 25 M pool?  Unless you swim off course in the open water or do hideously bad turns, I wouldn’t expect a difference of more than a few percent. Am I right?  I realize that doing laps in a 25 M pool actually means that I’m swimming slightly less than 25 M per lap, but the difference couldn’t be more than a couple of feet per lap for me, since I do open turns and bring most of my body within inches of the walls. Conversion between 25M pools and 50M pools puts a 100M swim (male) of similar effort as about 3% faster in a 25M pool than in a standard 50M long course one (nifty conversion applet at http://www.swiminfo.com/results/conversions.asp) for ‘official’ purposes. So I’d guess maybe 7-8% slower for a correct distance 100M pool than a 25M one. You’re getting power from every turn (whether it be open or flip) and a bit of a rest for the arms on every turn. As for getting the real distance of the pool, I’d just bring along an ordinary tape measure next time you go swim. Put a shoe or something to anchor the tip, unroll to 20M. Mark, reanchor the tip of the tape measure, and repeat.

Thanks for the link and info.  Now, for a little mathematical extrapolation:  for men swimming the 400 M freestyle (closest thing to most sprint triathlons), going from a 25 M pool to a 50 M pool increases their time by 3.4%.  Since a 25 M pool means 4 turns per 100 M and a 50 M pool means 2 turns per 100 M, we can conclude that each turn removed per 100 M will increase time by 1.7%.  Since open water removes all 4, we get a 6.8% increase in time for switching from 25 M to open water.  For switching to a 100 M pool, we’d get 5.1% increase in time. And from looking at that link you posted, it doesn’t look like 100 M is a widely accepted "official" pool length, thus I wouldn’t expect any great effort on part of engineers and contractors to make a pool exactly 100 M.  Of course, it’s also possible that the other 2 pools I use that are supposed to be 25 M are actually only 25 yards.  In that case 400 M in the 100 M pool would take me 15% longer than 400 yds in a 25 yd pool.  But that’s still not enough to explain the ~25% discrepancy I’m seeing.   And since the pool is roughly a stretched out hexagon shape, I’d probably need to bring a chalk line and a partner in order to measure it from the pool deck.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I swim in several different pools locally:  2 different 25 M indoor pools and 1 outdoor pool that is allegedly 100 M, designed primarily for recreation, but tolerates lap swimmers in the mornings.  Normally, I do 100 M repeats at both 25 M pools in the 1:40 – 1:45 range.  Going all out, I get a little better than 1:30. This morning, I did several "100 M" (1 lap) repeats at the outdoor pool and noticed my times appeared hideous by comparison:  all were in the 2:10 – 2:15 range.  These were done with comparable intensity and rest times with which I do the 1:40 – 1:45 100’s in the 25 M pools. In all cases, I followed the black line, except to dodge the occasional wader.  I realize that I am not used to swimming in the near open water environment of the outdoor pool, but I simply can’t see how such a huge discrepancy between times can be explained by open water vs. lap swimming.  I don’t do flip turns and my open turns are not particularly efficient.  Thus, I think the outdoor "100 M" pool is actually longer than 100 M.   My question is for those of you who swim in open water:  how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in a 25 M pool?  Unless you swim off course in the open water or do hideously bad turns, I wouldn’t expect a difference of more than a few percent. Am I right?  I realize that doing laps in a 25 M pool actually means that I’m swimming slightly less than 25 M per lap, but the difference couldn’t be more than a couple of feet per lap for me, since I do open turns and bring most of my body within inches of the walls.   I’m always faster in a pool than open water, but that’s comparing times in a 25 yd pool to real open water with waves, no black line, and jellyfish. I also gain time off the wall each time I flip turn. The difference in time you’re describing is way too much, considering the "near open water" environment isn’t really that near to open water (black line, virtually no waves or surf, no sharks or jellyfish to distract). I think you’re probably right about the length of the pool being off.

But the difference from a 25 m/yd pool is only getting to push a wall every "100 M" and swimming in basically one giant lane with no defined rules of travel.  You do have to look up every so often to avoid other lap swimmers, as well as stray floaters and waders.   I’m curious, when you say "100m", you mean 100m end to end, not 50m and you get 100 by doing a lap, out and back? Wow, it would be cool to have access to that kind of distance! Tom

It is a huge pool – "100M" from end to end (Oak Ridge, TN) and is set up primarily as a recreational pool, and never, to my knowlede used for any competitive swim events, except an occasional sprint triathlon.  It is spring-fed, thus has unusually cold water during the whole 2 and 1/2 months it’s open.  It has plenty of horseplay areas in the kiddie side and deep side, but unfortunately, they never rope off lap swim section and keep the waders and floaters out even during off-peak hours, thus, you get occasional collisions.  Basically, it is an unwritten rule that lap swimmers are tolerated from 10 – 12 on weekend mornings and during lunch hours on weekdays.       That said, I’m now trying to figure out a way to measure this pool. Probably the simplest method, and accurate to +-5%, is get on the shallow side of the lap swim rectangle and count baby steps across it. I figure this would take me about 5 minutes and 300 – 400 steps.  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I swim in several different pools locally:  2 different 25 M indoor pools and 1 outdoor pool that is allegedly 100 M, designed primarily for recreation, but tolerates lap swimmers in the mornings.  Normally, I do 100 M repeats at both 25 M pools in the 1:40 – 1:45 range.  Going all out, I get a little better than 1:30. This morning, I did several "100 M" (1 lap) repeats at the outdoor pool and noticed my times appeared hideous by comparison:  all were in the 2:10 – 2:15 range.  These were done with comparable intensity and rest times with which I do the 1:40 – 1:45 100’s in the 25 M pools. In all cases, I followed the black line, except to dodge the occasional wader.  I realize that I am not used to swimming in the near open water environment of the outdoor pool, but I simply can’t see how such a huge discrepancy between times can be explained by open water vs. lap swimming.  I don’t do flip turns and my open turns are not particularly efficient.  Thus, I think the outdoor "100 M" pool is actually longer than 100 M.   My question is for those of you who swim in open water:  how do your times at a given distance in open water compare to those in a 25 M pool?  Unless you swim off course in the open water or do hideously bad turns, I wouldn’t expect a difference of more than a few percent. Am I right?  I realize that doing laps in a 25 M pool actually means that I’m swimming slightly less than 25 M per lap, but the difference couldn’t be more than a couple of feet per lap for me, since I do open turns and bring most of my body within inches of the walls.  

I’m always faster in a pool than open water, but that’s comparing times in a 25 yd pool to real open water with waves, no black line, and jellyfish. I also gain time off the wall each time I flip turn. The difference in time you’re describing is way too much, considering the "near open water" environment isn’t really that near to open water (black line, virtually no waves or surf, no sharks or jellyfish to distract). I think you’re probably right about the length of the pool being off. I’m curious, when you say "100m", you mean 100m end to end, not 50m and you get 100 by doing a lap, out and back? Wow, it would be cool to have access to that kind of distance! Tom

Response:

Question:

Recently, I’ve had 4 milers turn into 6 milers (~1:10 for me <G) all by themselves (OK, I helped a little). I’ll be interested to hear if your extra affected you. Layne

Layne, still feeling good here. i guess i survived, eh? i’ve been messing with some new stretches lately, so maybe they’ve helped counteract what could have been cramped calves or something. thanks for asking! Cam

Response:

Wow, Did it really kill you to run the 10 extra minutes? Doesn’t sound like it. I know you have a plan and that’s good, but if your this concerned about following some schedule, you’re going to be overtrained/fatigued at some point, guaranteed. Then what are you going to do, as the schedule continues onward and upward? Your conditioning just doesn’t continue linearly like it is oh so easy to schedule. I’d suggest you look at what is on you schedule a month or so out, and tell yourself thats where you want to be condition wise at that point, and then think of the general sequence of workouts you’ll follow to get to that point. Myself, for example, its medium run, intervals, medium, hills, long run. In between these sessions are easy runs, enough to make sure I’m recovered for the next hard workout. Generally this will be about a two week cycle. Depending on your age, experience, goals, fitness, this will be different. This is not to say these fixed schedules are bad, they are great for beginners who don’t have and idea where to start. But after a while, this will run out. Then we’ll see the posting "How can I run a faster X km?". Then you need to understand the concepts of the training plan, not the absolute schedule. IMO Summary: If this overdistance really blew you away, making you struggle to finish the run an were exhausted, then your recovery sessions before your next hard workout is what is critical. Next weeks scheduled long run? You might not even be running a hard workout by that point if you had really gone overboard. I know too many runners and cyclists obsessed with their schedules. You see them a little later and ask them how it’s going only to find out they couldn’t train for a week or two because of some kind of injury. A good coach will help you defining your goals and then maybe give you a weeks worth of training. Run hard when you can, and back off before you can’t. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the benefits of training carefully is that you can accomodate a boo-boo.  If you were habitually overtraining, the extra mile or two could be what pushes you over the edge, but since you train sensibly, you have a reserve upon which you can draw, and you did, and you should live to tell the tale without adverse consequences, provided you are a little extra careful over the next week, taking it easy and being alert for the signs of overtraining and/or injury. Thus pontificate and run-on-sentence I. And if it makes you feel better, either physically or psychologically, shorten your next run by 10 minutes. -S- thanks, Steve. yeah, you confirm what i was thinking. not the pontification part, but about how i’ve been extra careful lately anyway, so that one boo-boo won’t hurt (and it didn’t, and it doesn’t). as for my next LR, i may either just repeat the distance (which i would be at anyway) or cut back a wee bit. thanks again… Cam

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was more concerned about the significant increase in distance over my last run, and for this week – killing the "LR = 1/3 of wkly mileage" rule. Any need to worry about this… will one LR like this do anything to me? will I feel anything bad in the next few days or week? I feel good now, nothing beyond the usual gentle tightness in the calves, which I’ll work on tonight. Maybe this won’t matter much. I AM happy that I can do this distance again, after having a rough go of it this winter, after my post marathon injuries, etc. I’m really looking forward to the half marathon in May, and am sure I’ll be ready for it. More importantly, should I back off on the LR distance next week? I’m adding 10 minutes to the LR each week, with one easier week each month. I *should* have reached the 1:20 point *next* week. Maybe knock next week’s LR back to 1:15 to compensate, then do the next one for 1:30 ? I’ve gone overtime just occasionally before, but never more than 5 minutes. OK, I’m a worry-wart…. I’ll stop now. Thanks for any ideas, Cam I wouldn’t worry about the extra and just stick to your build-up schedule and do the 1:20 next week. If you’ve been building up steadily for the last 4-5 weeks you may even want to consider doing a light week next week to rest and recoup and then start building again the week after. Mike

Mike, my easy week is in two weeks, according to my schedule. I think that’ll work out ok. Everyone here is very reassuring that there isn’t much to worry about here, as long as i’m not overtraining to begin with. i don’t believe i am, tho’ i occasionally wonder, but only because i’m triathlon training (for the first time) and get a bit overwhelmed by all of the workouts each week. but then i have a good week, and that feeling is gone. thanks, Cam

Response:

One of the benefits of training carefully is that you can accomodate a boo-boo.  If you were habitually overtraining, the extra mile or two could be what pushes you over the edge, but since you train sensibly, you have a reserve upon which you can draw, and you did, and you should live to tell the tale without adverse consequences, provided you are a little extra careful over the next week, taking it easy and being alert for the signs of overtraining and/or injury. Thus pontificate and run-on-sentence I. And if it makes you feel better, either physically or psychologically, shorten your next run by 10 minutes. -S-

thanks, Steve. yeah, you confirm what i was thinking. not the pontification part, but about how i’ve been extra careful lately anyway, so that one boo-boo won’t hurt (and it didn’t, and it doesn’t). as for my next LR, i may either just repeat the distance (which i would be at anyway) or cut back a wee bit. thanks again… Cam

Response:

Cam, I love this!  You obsess over every mile, just like I do.  I feel much better now.  :-) Hope someone answers your question… in case it ever happens to me. (If it were me, and I continued to feel no ill effects, I’d try the same time again — the 1:20.  Especially if you’re going to have an extra day or two because you did this long run a little early.  But if I were *you*, I wouldn’t listen to me.  :-) Maggie

Ha, Maggie, you’ve got me ALL wrong! well….er… part wrong. i don’t obsess over the MILES, but rather *kilometers*… but only in a very ballpark figure kinda way… as i said, i track my runs by time, and can usually guesstimate the distance i’ve covered. 10 minutes over means i might have logged an extra 2K, more than the LR formula dictates. and as you suggested, i think i’ll just repeat that 1:20 time again, unless i wake up that day feeling bad about that  :) thanks, Cam

Response:

Cam, I love this!  You obsess over every mile, just like I do.  I feel much better now.  :-) Hope someone answers your question… in case it ever happens to me. (If it were me, and I continued to feel no ill effects, I’d try the same time again — the 1:20.  Especially if you’re going to have an extra day or two because you did this long run a little early.  But if I were *you*, I wouldn’t listen to me.  :-) Maggie

Response:

One of the benefits of training carefully is that you can accomodate a boo-boo.  If you were habitually overtraining, the extra mile or two could be what pushes you over the edge, but since you train sensibly, you have a reserve upon which you can draw, and you did, and you should live to tell the tale without adverse consequences, provided you are a little extra careful over the next week, taking it easy and being alert for the signs of overtraining and/or injury. Thus pontificate and run-on-sentence I. And if it makes you feel better, either physically or psychologically, shorten your next run by 10 minutes. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning I went out for my long run…. yeah, it had to be today rather than the weekend – that’s just the way my schedule is working these days. Anyway, I planned on a 1:10 run. I measure the runs by time rather than distance, unlike some other r.r.’s. After pretty much starting up from scratch again in early January after my ITBS layoff, I am presently up to 1:10 on long runs. I’m handling this well and I feel as good as I did last winter/spring when I was training for a half marathon. Today I goofed and ran ten minutes longer than my scheduled time/distance. I set my watch to beep at the halfway point so that I could turn back, but strangely I never heard the beep. Must have been noisy traffic around me at the time… dang! I just happened to look at my watch at about 5 minutes past my turnaround time and DOH! I knew I had goofed. So now I was faced with an additional 10 minutes out there. I was dressed for the temperature (a chilling -24 celcius) and wasn’t worried about that. I was more concerned about the significant increase in distance over my last run, and for this week – killing the "LR = 1/3 of wkly mileage" rule. Any need to worry about this… will one LR like this do anything to me? will I feel anything bad in the next few days or week? I feel good now, nothing beyond the usual gentle tightness in the calves, which I’ll work on tonight. Maybe this won’t matter much. I AM happy that I can do this distance again, after having a rough go of it this winter, after my post marathon injuries, etc. I’m really looking forward to the half marathon in May, and am sure I’ll be ready for it. More importantly, should I back off on the LR distance next week? I’m adding 10 minutes to the LR each week, with one easier week each month. I *should* have reached the 1:20 point *next* week. Maybe knock next week’s LR back to 1:15 to compensate, then do the next one for 1:30 ? I’ve gone overtime just occasionally before, but never more than 5 minutes. OK, I’m a worry-wart…. I’ll stop now. Thanks for any ideas, Cam

Response:

Hi, Cam, This morning I went out for my long run…. yeah, it had to be today rather than the weekend – that’s just the way my schedule is working these days. Anyway, I planned on a 1:10 run. I measure the runs by time rather than distance, unlike some other r.r.’s.

[snip] Recently, I’ve had 4 milers turn into 6 milers (~1:10 for me <G) all by themselves (OK, I helped a little). I’ll be interested to hear if your extra affected you. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was more concerned about the significant increase in distance over my last run, and for this week – killing the "LR = 1/3 of wkly mileage" rule. Any need to worry about this… will one LR like this do anything to me? will I feel anything bad in the next few days or week? I feel good now, nothing beyond the usual gentle tightness in the calves, which I’ll work on tonight. Maybe this won’t matter much. I AM happy that I can do this distance again, after having a rough go of it this winter, after my post marathon injuries, etc. I’m really looking forward to the half marathon in May, and am sure I’ll be ready for it. More importantly, should I back off on the LR distance next week? I’m adding 10 minutes to the LR each week, with one easier week each month. I *should* have reached the 1:20 point *next* week. Maybe knock next week’s LR back to 1:15 to compensate, then do the next one for 1:30 ? I’ve gone overtime just occasionally before, but never more than 5 minutes. OK, I’m a worry-wart…. I’ll stop now. Thanks for any ideas, Cam

I wouldn’t worry about the extra and just stick to your build-up schedule and do the 1:20 next week. If you’ve been building up steadily for the last 4-5 weeks you may even want to consider doing a light week next week to rest and recoup and then start building again the week after. Mike

Response:

This morning I went out for my long run…. yeah, it had to be today rather than the weekend – that’s just the way my schedule is working these days. Anyway, I planned on a 1:10 run. I measure the runs by time rather than distance, unlike some other r.r.’s. After pretty much starting up from scratch again in early January after my ITBS layoff, I am presently up to 1:10 on long runs. I’m handling this well and I feel as good as I did last winter/spring when I was training for a half marathon. Today I goofed and ran ten minutes longer than my scheduled time/distance. I set my watch to beep at the halfway point so that I could turn back, but strangely I never heard the beep. Must have been noisy traffic around me at the time… dang! I just happened to look at my watch at about 5 minutes past my turnaround time and DOH! I knew I had goofed. So now I was faced with an additional 10 minutes out there. I was dressed for the temperature (a chilling -24 celcius) and wasn’t worried about that. I was more concerned about the significant increase in distance over my last run, and for this week – killing the "LR = 1/3 of wkly mileage" rule. Any need to worry about this… will one LR like this do anything to me? will I feel anything bad in the next few days or week? I feel good now, nothing beyond the usual gentle tightness in the calves, which I’ll work on tonight. Maybe this won’t matter much. I AM happy that I can do this distance again, after having a rough go of it this winter, after my post marathon injuries, etc. I’m really looking forward to the half marathon in May, and am sure I’ll be ready for it. More importantly, should I back off on the LR distance next week? I’m adding 10 minutes to the LR each week, with one easier week each month. I *should* have reached the 1:20 point *next* week. Maybe knock next week’s LR back to 1:15 to compensate, then do the next one for 1:30 ? I’ve gone overtime just occasionally before, but never more than 5 minutes. OK, I’m a worry-wart…. I’ll stop now. Thanks for any ideas, Cam

Response:

Question:

How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k.

WOW! Cheers, Rudiger

Response:

Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe:

[snip] Nice race, David! My congratulations to you and your teamates. The pictures were a nice touch as well but I’m not sure if I like the precedent you’ve set. Now the rest of us are going to have to try harder with our reports. John London, ON

Response:

Amazing!  You just get better and better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Regards, Dave I’d love to think that there’s an end just waiting right around the bend, but every turn’s a tunnel.        I descend I’m the running man… Edward Ka Spell and kEvin Key, The Last Man to Fly, 1991

Response:

Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe:

Great report, as usual.  Great pics. (did the weather actually make it that dark on Saturday, or does your camera generally make for darker photos?) — Lorne Sundby Edmonton, Canada (Come visit Aug 3-12, for the 2001 World Championships in Athletics.)

Response:

Bloody hell Dave that’s some 5k time! Congratulations! Charlie — To reply please remove the ‘antijunk’

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s the posted results for the relay(we are team "Navl Appleby Moving"): http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcteam.htm (and for the individuals): http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcspt.htm (and for the elites): http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcmen.htm http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcwom.htm — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Congratulations Dave on the P.R and what a fantastic report! Loved the pics, reckon you should do a full tri run leg and see if you come up with another P.R?? Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Awesome David! Keep up the great running! Troy http://community.webtv.net/tmacrun/AppalachianTrail

Response:

Dude… That’s righteous… 16.35 is cookin’, and certainly a quantum leap in your PR (by what, about a minute?)… That sort of progress at those paces is pretty astounding… Keep it up chief! -Chazzer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Wohoo! What a 5k time congrats on your great result. Hope I’ll be there some time (better sooner than later) Greetings, Oerficus — One Sure Thing – When everything else fails, you still have your running.. Daniel’s Running Formula Feel free contacting me! ICQ: 55398705

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Congratulations on a great Race and new PR! Tony Mueller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg

Response:

Well, Dave, you’ve got another PB! Are you sure this was really 5K? Just kidding!

Haha, I was a but worried too, but after all, I beat everyone. That’s also a first for me. I could certainly tell I was running substantially faster than usual. Also, the elites ran on the same course… their times look right to me.  I’d suggest that the fact that there was no pack to pull you along and make you more excited might have helped you pace better. What do you think?

Hmmm, I don’t know – I really went off with a full head of steam. I think it was more of a case of me actually holding my usual ‘too fast’ start for a whole race. In fact, my overall pace (3:19/km) is very much around my usual fast start. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe:

Great report! I got caught out in that downpour on Toronto Island during a rowing regatta.  But the weather is expected to be a lot better tomorrow when I run that same Indy track for a 5K (my first ever race!). jD

Response:

Well, Dave, you’ve got another PB! Are you sure this was really 5K? Just kidding! I’d suggest that the fact that there was no pack to pull you along and make you more excited might have helped you pace better. What do you think? Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k.

Oops! I forgot I times the previous transition of Ron, which messed these splits up, upon futher inspection. I WISH these were right, lol I guess I have no proper splits, unless I figure out the mess I created on the watch. jeez! I hate it when this happens! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Here’s the posted results for the relay(we are team "Navl Appleby Moving"): http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcteam.htm (and for the individuals): http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcspt.htm (and for the elites): http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcmen.htm http://www.sportstats.ca/res2001/twcwom.htm — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

David, Great report, great pictures, and you ran great. Congrats on your new PR and your team’s 2nd place finish. That Heini must have been good. Bernard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Wow, another great day! Here’s my report, complete with visual additives for the group, hehe: Jeff (the swimmer) and I met Ron (the cyclist) at the gates of the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, known around these parts simply as ‘the Ex’. Here’s those two guys, my first photo of the day:  http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_and_ron_pre_race.jpg Here’s the transition area, about 20 minutes before race time. Ron is in the foreground, looking away: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/pre_race_transition.jpg The weather was grey and a storm was looming. However, it looked like the elite race (right after ours) would get it, not us We were right! The elite men’s race (and a lot of the women’s) was spent in a downpour. The swim course was a 750m loop in a sheltered section of Lake Ontario. Start time temps (water) were 13C (55 F, so it was cold (as I was told, haha . Wetsuits were mandatory. Jeff had one, so it was okay.The bike course and run course are on the Molson Indy course, a major Indy race in one week. All the roads are completely sealed off with tire piles and high fences and walls making you truly feel like you are in a race car, even when running! I got no photos of the swim, because it was 800m away from the transition. I waited for Jeff with Ron, knowing he had to run the 800m transition upon exiting the water. His total time, including the transition, was 19:51. Here’s a great quick succession of pics I took, starting from when Jeff was just arriving: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_finishes.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_ron_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_starts.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_worked_hard.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/jeff_feels_it.jpg Yeah! THAT’S what it’s all about! Anyway, Ron was eager to test out the nice bike he borrowed for the race. He used his old Haro on our first foray into the tri world, if your remember from the Bay City Tri report. Here’s two nice pics of him on the excellent20km course (from behind, though – he’s in the reddish-colored jersey): http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_on_course2.jpg Unfortunately, a light, but steady sprinkle of rain started about halfway into his ride. This slowed everyone down, as the course has some fairly serious turns, and was getting slick. Ron’s transition involved running about 100m. In total, he managed a 31:41, which was a fine ride, good for 3rd overall. Here’s the transition from Ron to me… the first pic shows me putting the ChampionChip on, and you get a good view of the shoes I train and race in. The second pic shows me running over the mats that signalled the start of my 5k: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/ron_dave_transition.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_starts.jpg How did I do? Well, I knew I was in for a good run when I hit the halfway marker at 7:55. I was really, really pumped up!! I wasn’t even really tired. I waited until I had a km to go and literally floored it, and I mean it..lol. Second half was 7:40, a negative split of15 fat seconds and a shocking 16:35 for 5k. I ran the last km in barely over 3 minutes. In fact, I ran the 5k faster that ANYONE in the entire race, regardless of category (individual tri, individual duathlon, relay duathlon, relay triathlon). We came in 2nd overall, because a team ahead of us was disqualified! I have a nice plaque Here’s me savouring these thoughts, post-race…. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/dave_after.jpg Here’s the best pics of the elite women’s race I took.. I got a great one of Siri Lindley of the USA winning in 2:00:04: http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_lead_pack.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women2.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_group.jpg http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/elite_women_winner.jpg No men’s elite pics, unfortunately. The rain finally drove us out, hungry and tired. Ironically it started to clear up around the time I estimated the run the start. Whitfield (CAN) won though!! And last but not least (for my US & international friends …. http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/goodbye_toronto.jpg thanks for reading! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Question:

I am getting interested in triathlons, and looking around I am seeing that the swimming portion is way too short for my taste, to the point that I would have to do an ironman distance triathlon to get into the reasonable swimming distances.  The bicycle distances I could give or take. For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? -Steffi

Response:

Only if I could wear water wings. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting interested in triathlons, and looking around I am seeing that the swimming portion is way too short for my taste, to the point that I would have to do an ironman distance triathlon to get into the reasonable swimming distances.  The bicycle distances I could give or take. For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? -Steffi

Response:

For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio?

The biggest ratio I have seen is the Escape from Alcatraz race; it has (I believe) a 1.2mile swim and an 18 mile bike. Vanessa

Response:

Do you have stock in local mortuaries or a new underwater breathing apparatus?  I am shocked you can type so well with the webbed fingers.  The 10/10/10 scenario would be similar to an X-terra Mountain bike, rock climb, and white water kayaking where the mountain bike is through Tibet (swim), the rock climb (bike) is held in Clearwater Florida, and the white water kayak (run) is held in a pond in Nebraska.  Sorry for the vent.   PS.  Make sure post race prizes are sponsored by Nair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? A 10K SWIM??? While I would like to see the swim portion of many races longer, I don’t think a 10K across-the-board tri makes much sense, particularly for the bicycle portion. A 10K swim would take even very good swimmers hours, whereas a 10K bike would only last about 15-20 minutes. Separating the three into more equivalent time periods seems to make more sense. For instance, I’d like to see the swim portion of sprint tris be a mile instead of a half mile or less. I realize that the swim has been made shorter to encourage people to participate in triathlons, however. It is a bummer for those of us for whom swimming is our best sport of the three, though. Shea

Response:

For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio?

A 10K SWIM??? While I would like to see the swim portion of many races longer, I don’t think a 10K across-the-board tri makes much sense, particularly for the bicycle portion. A 10K swim would take even very good swimmers hours, whereas a 10K bike would only last about 15-20 minutes. Separating the three into more equivalent time periods seems to make more sense. For instance, I’d like to see the swim portion of sprint tris be a mile instead of a half mile or less. I realize that the swim has been made shorter to encourage people to participate in triathlons, however. It is a bummer for those of us for whom swimming is our best sport of the three, though. Shea

Response:

While that looks nice on paper I think that once you actually start racing the time you spend is grossly disproportionate.  For an elite swimmer, let alone the avg triathlete, that’s around a solid 2 hrs of swimming.  While the rest of the race with competition of that level would be less than half that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting interested in triathlons, and looking around I am seeing that the swimming portion is way too short for my taste, to the point that I would have to do an ironman distance triathlon to get into the reasonable swimming distances.  The bicycle distances I could give or take. For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? -Steffi

Response:

I don’t know If I would be a big fan of this format. This would be one race that would be very favourable to the strong swimmer.The swim would take , what around 2 1/2 hours, the bike leg about 14 min and the run about 40 min for an above average triathlete. There was  a race back in the 80’s, I can’t recall the location other than it was somewhere on the east Coast of the US and it was an equilateral triathlon with respect to time – roughly. This seems to me a fairer way of doing things. Say, work on the distances that an above average triathlete can do in an hour – 2.5 mile swim/25 mile bike/10 mile run. I am surprised that this fomat has not caught on. Steve Fleck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting interested in triathlons, and looking around I am seeing that the swimming portion is way too short for my taste, to the point that I would have to do an ironman distance triathlon to get into the reasonable swimming distances.  The bicycle distances I could give or take. For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? -Steffi

Response:

They have a race in Westport CT that seems to be equal for each discipline. It has a .5 mile swim. 5 mile bike then a 2.2 mile run. This helps the strong swimmers out tremendously. This being the only reason I do this short sprint race. Charles Garabedian Make Money- http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=baa154 Tri World- http://come.to/triworld

Response:

That sounds a little extreme, since the time needed to complete the splits would be really disproportionate; there aren’t too many people who would be willing to tackle an Ultraman-distance swim, which could take, what, 2-3 hours, and then jump on the bike for 15-18 minutes.  But I’ve often thought it would be neat to do an event in which the splits took about the same amount of time — maybe a 1-1.2 mile swim, a 10-12 mile bike, and a 4-5 mile run.  Each leg would come in around 25-30 minutes (for me); it seems like such a format would be a boon to swimmers, and require participants to have a more balanced approach to competing. FWIW… David "Guilty! Guilty!  My evil self is at the door — and I have no power to stop it!" http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8374

Response:

They have a race in Westport CT that seems to be equal for each

discipline. It has a .5 mile swim. 5 mile bike then a 2.2 mile run. This helps the strong swimmers out tremendously.

Sounds fun. Actually it STILL isn’t quite fair for swimmers (about a 9 minute swim vs maybe 12 – 13 minute bike & run for top athletes), but MUCH fairer than most.  When is it?  Probably too short to make it worth travelling that far though! -hug (who wouldn’t mind a 5k/5k/5k!) Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hmm… let’s see, for me, that’d be about a 4 hour swim segment, 15 minute bike segment, and 50 minute run segment. Ummm… I’ll pass on the 10/10/10. Proportionally, the closest you’ll get to parity would be an Olympic distance race (1500m/40K/10k).

Response:

Hi, It was the "Equalizer", North Shore Triathlon.  North Shore of Boston Suburbs. It was a 4 mile swim, 51 mile bike and a 15 mile run.  Low key – great race. Best Always, Dave Fish

Response:

In article For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? The biggest ratio I have seen is the Escape from Alcatraz race; it has (I believe) a 1.2mile swim and an 18 mile bike.

The Alcatraz swim is actually 1.5 miles (when it’s actually done from the Rock). — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

That sounds a little extreme, since the time needed to complete the splits would be really disproportionate; there aren’t too many people who would be willing to tackle an Ultraman-distance swim, which could take, what, 2-3 hours, and then jump on the bike for 15-18 minutes.  

Yeah, it is extreme.  Still, it holds an attraction for me.  I guess no one else is interested in the 10k/10k/10k.  Maybe a 5k/5k/5k would be better. About lop-sided times– that’s what got me thinking about this.  Most tri’s already have lop-sided leg times, with swimming getting the short end of the stick.  So I started wondering about biking getting the short end. But I’ve often thought it would be neat to do an event in which the splits took about the same amount of time — maybe a 1-1.2 mile swim, a 10-12 mile bike, and a 4-5 mile run.  

This is also very interesting to me.  Maybe I’ll look around for one of those. -Steffi

Response:

: Hmm… let’s see, for me, that’d be about a 4 hour swim segment, 15 minute : bike segment, and 50 minute run segment. : Ummm… I’ll pass on the 10/10/10. : Proportionally, the closest you’ll get to parity would be an Olympic : distance race (1500m/40K/10k). And I won’t go into my really lengthy diatribe with supporting data (you can probably find it in dejanews), just the semi lengthy one –  in addition to the potential fairness of equal time in each leg, which I think would be an interesting though I think swim favoring format, eg. Steve’s 2.5/25/10 example, there is already a reasonable form of fairness in International distance IF you look at the time _differential_ between an elite/expert in each leg and an average competitor.  That is, look at how much time a good swimmer gains on a mediocre swimmer (not just how much time the good or mediocre swimmer spends on the course).  Same for the bike and run.  If you look at, say, the 95th percentile split in each discipline vs. the 45th, you will find that the amount of time to be gained or lost is very much the same order of magnitude.  You can even do it just based on some made up but reasonable numbers for each leg: really good swim: 18  mediocre swim: 28 really good bike: 64  mediocre bike: 76 really good run:  36  mediocre run:  48 But try it with some real results.  You’ll also find that a well rounded triathlete can and will beat a one sport specialist (across a variety of existing discipline length combinations).  Which to me is one of the main themes of triathlon.   Wade

Response:

The biggest ratio I have seen is the Escape from Alcatraz race; it has (I believe) a 1.2mile swim and an 18 mile bike. The Alcatraz swim is actually 1.5 miles (when it’s actually done from the Rock). — Tri-Baby

Doh! I saw the Escape from Alcatraz race on TV last Sunday and the announcer said it was 1.2 miles; I naively took their word for it. Well, 1.5 miles would be an even bigger swim/bike ratio. Vanessa

Response:

Yeah, it is extreme.  Still, it holds an attraction for me.  

snip About lop-sided times– that’s what got me thinking about this.  Most tri’s already have lop-sided leg times, with swimming getting the short end of the stick.  So I started wondering about biking getting the short end.

You know, that’s a good point.  Triathlon as a sport is rather out toward the fringes of acceptability anyway, so who’s to call one format or another "extreme?" (which is such an overused term now anyway, what are we going to see next, "The Really, No Kidding, You-Thought-We-Were-Wack-Before-with-X-Games, X-SQUARED Games!") But I’ve often thought it would be neat to do an event in which the splits took about the same amount of time — maybe a 1-1.2 mile swim, a 10-12 mile bike, and a 4-5 mile run.   This is also very interesting to me.  Maybe I’ll look around for one of those. -Steffi

Please, if you find an event such as that, let us know. David "Guilty! Guilty!  My evil self is at the door — and I have no power to stop it!" http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8374

Response:

when international distance triathlons were first developed, the distance used was the most common long distance event for each sport; the 1500 meter swim, 40k time trial, and 10k run. event the ironman was started to determine which hawaiian event was most gruelling and combined the 3 most common endurance events taking place in oahu. if we start asking why when it comes to sports, we’re not likely to find any reasonable answers, just tradtion.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting interested in triathlons, and looking around I am seeing that the swimming portion is way too short for my taste, to the point that I would have to do an ironman distance triathlon to get into the reasonable swimming distances.  The bicycle distances I could give or take. For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? -Steffi

Response:

Probably, you want to have equivalent finishing times so… 2000m swim / 20 K bike / 8 K run  (all legs close to 30 min or less for many athletes) Of course this event would have to be a no-drafting, no wetsuit event ! Pat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting interested in triathlons, and looking around I am seeing that the swimming portion is way too short for my taste, to the point that I would have to do an ironman distance triathlon to get into the reasonable swimming distances.  The bicycle distances I could give or take. For emphasis that there might be a lot of us out there who like swimming, what do people think of a 10k/10k/10k triathlon?  I feel there is something inherently satisfying about the equivalent distances for each portion.  I know that must seem an insult to you bicyclists.  But, would any of you be interested in this type of race?  What triathlons have the biggest swim to bike ratio? -Steffi

Response:

if we start asking why when it comes to sports, we’re not likely to find any reasonable answers, just tradtion.

Agreed. Why is the marathon 26.2 miles? If I remember correctly it was some sort of weird "off-beat" situation that created this particular distance and somehow it caught on. Yup, tradition.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

I can’t seem to recall what the exact distance of the marathon was originally ie the distance in Greece from Marathon to Rome. I believe that it is close to 25 – 26 miles. The current distance of 26.2 miles was adopted at the London Olympic Games in 19XX. The Queen wanted to see the start of the race, so the start was extended out slightly to Windsor castle near London. The 26.2 miles was the distance from Windsor castle to the finish line in the Olympic stadium(Wembley??) in London. Steve Fleck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if we start asking why when it comes to sports, we’re not likely to find any reasonable answers, just tradtion. Agreed. Why is the marathon 26.2 miles? If I remember correctly it was some sort of weird "off-beat" situation that created this particular distance and somehow it caught on. Yup, tradition.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

The original (modern era) marathon at the first Olympic games in Athens, 1896 was 40km. It was extended to 26miles 385yards for the 1908 London olympics, so the race could finish in front of the royal box. Just another example of the plebs having to go the extra 1.35miles just to keep royalty happy. — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if we start asking why when it comes to sports, we’re not likely to find any reasonable answers, just tradtion. Agreed. Why is the marathon 26.2 miles? If I remember correctly it was some sort of weird "off-beat" situation that created this particular distance and somehow it caught on. Yup, tradition.                          |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                 "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Agreed. Why is the marathon 26.2 miles? If I remember correctly it was some sort of weird "off-beat" situation that created this particular distance and somehow it caught on. Yup, tradition.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

The story I have heard is that in ancient Greece, the Athenians had a military victory against Persia; they sent a messenger to run to Marathon, 26.2 miles away, to tell them about it. He made it, gasped out his message, "Rejoice! We conquer!" and died. Some versions of the story say the Persians were strategically retreating to attack somewhere else, and the message was actually "Rejoice! We conquer! The Persians are coming!" Vanessa

Response:

Acording to legend, it was Pheidippides who ran that first Marathon to Athens split, 24 miles/39 kilometers, in 490 B.C., with word of victory over the Persians.  And then had history’s first, greatest, bonk. "Pheidippedes, you just ran the world’s first marathon!  What are you gonna do do now?" "I’m going to Atlantis…gurrkrrkkkk…" — David "God always has another custard pie up His sleeve." http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8374

Response:

Agreed. Why is the marathon 26.2 miles? If I remember correctly it was some sort of weird "off-beat" situation that created this particular distance and somehow it caught on. Yup, tradition. The original (modern era) marathon at the first Olympic games in Athens, 1896 was 40km. It was extended to 26miles 385yards for the 1908 London olympics, so the race could finish in front of the royal box. Just another example of the plebs having to go the extra 1.35miles just to keep royalty happy.

The 1896 Marathon was actually about 42km, according to Thomas Pelham, an olympian and chronicler of the event for MIT.  For a beautiful and emotional description of the event and its victor, see http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/1996/42541/42476.html -Steffi

Response:

Question:

I didn’t know there was a Clemson Tri Club website, but the date I have is May 2nd. It’s not listed on the North Carolina Triathlon Series, where I thought it would be. The series is run by Set-Up, Inc. and Inside-Out Sports. I think it is on their calendar. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know what’s going on with the Clemson Triathlon this year? It doesn’t look like the Clemson Tri Club web site has been updated is quite a while.

Response:

I didn’t know there was a Clemson Tri Club website, but the date I have is May 2nd. It’s not listed on the North Carolina Triathlon Series, where I thought it would be. The series is run by Set-Up, Inc. and Inside-Out Sports. I think it is on their calendar. Does anyone know what’s going on with the Clemson Triathlon this year? It doesn’t look like the Clemson Tri Club web site has been updated is quite a while.

I can confirm a date of May 2nd also. Jack Orsinger

Response:

I didn’t know there was a Clemson Tri Club website, but the date I have is May 2nd. It’s not listed on the North Carolina Triathlon Series, where I thought it would be. The series is run by Set-Up, Inc. and Inside-Out Sports. I think it is on their calendar.

Clemson is in South Carolina!

Response:

I didn’t know there was a Clemson Tri Club website, but the date I have is May 2nd. It’s not listed on the North Carolina Triathlon Series, where I thought it would be. The series is run by Set-Up, Inc. and Inside-Out Sports. I think it is on their calendar. Clemson is in South Carolina!

While it’s true that Clemson is in South Carolina, the race is put on by Set-Up, Inc and Inside-Out Sports – the people who put on the North Carolina Series.  I too was suprised when I receieved the North Carolina Triathlon Series calandar this year and didn’t see the Clemson race since it was listed on there last year.  This year I’m hoping not to get brain freeze in the water.  Last year I freaked out in the middle of the lake and had to partially unzip my wetsuit because I was convinced it was cutting off the arterial flow to my brain and that I was going to pass out and drown :*)  I ended up laying down by my bike and "resting" for 4 min before I could begin transitioning to my bike.  The guy who had his bike next to mine came out of the water after me and saw me laying there.  He talked to me for a minute and realized that I was okay but that I was apparently a total freak.  That had to be the worst race of my life.  I was still freaking out on the bike whenever I passed by the lake. It’s funny because I’ve been a swimmer since I was 10 yrs old.  My best event by far is the swim (I’m usually one of the top 5 people out of the water in a small race like Clemson).  I chalk it up to Clemson having been my first race after a two year hiatus. Robb Rocket

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t know there was a Clemson Tri Club website, but the date I have is May 2nd. It’s not listed on the North Carolina Triathlon Series, where I thought it would be. The series is run by Set-Up, Inc. and Inside-Out Sports. I think it is on their calendar. Clemson is in South Carolina! While it’s true that Clemson is in South Carolina, the race is put on by Set-Up, Inc and Inside-Out Sports – the people who put on the North Carolina Series.  I too was suprised when I receieved the North Carolina Triathlon Series calandar this year and didn’t see the Clemson race since it was listed on there last year.

<snip Actually, the race is run by Set-Up Inc. and sponsored by Keith’s Triathlon Shop (Travelers Rest, SC)–at least according to Set-Up Inc.’s Web site. Apparently only races in NC will be a part of the NC Series this year. Note that Set-Up. Inc. is also running a USTS event on August 29 in Chippokes State Park, near Williamsburg, Virginia, which will not be part of the NC Series either. David

Response:

Question:

Hi Bobbi, Thanks for the reply.  Our web & graphics team is working on getting the latest products up on the site in the next two weeks.  There have been many athlete’s waiting for the new version and since the shipment just arrived, I wanted to give all of the triathlete’s a head-start. The pocket is on the very front of the belt and is large enough to hold keys, credit cards, money, etc…  The reflective tape is a great finishing touch for the dusk and dawn runners.  The price of the new belt will be $36.  If you happen to have a copy of Inside Triathlon’s coverage of the Hawaii Ironman, Luc Van Lierde is using the same belt in one of the photo’s. If you’re interested, you can place your order and give it a go.  If it’s not everything you thought it was, send it back and we’ll refund you 100%. The original belts are still available for $30. Hope this helps.  Stay tuned for an ever-improving site. Best, Vinu Vinu Malik President, Fuel Belt p:  617.868.9506 (direct) p:  888.666.BELT (2358) f:  617.661.7808 w:  www.fuelbelt.com Fuel Belt:  Proven at Ironman races around the world… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vinu,   When will you advertize the belt with the pockets & reflector tape & price? You keep announcing them, yet your site does not show them, or say how much they cost.  I know the regular one costs $30.

Response:

Vinu,    When will you advertize the belt with the pockets & reflector tape & price? You keep announcing them, yet your site does not show them, or say how much they cost.  I know the regular one costs $30.

Response:

Happy New Year Everyone!   Our primary goal is help you train and race faster by keeping you hydrated- COMFORTABLY.   Why bother with water bottle carriers that bounce uncontrollably?  Fuel Belts are designed for total comfort by spreading the weight of one water bottle (20 ounces) around your waist using 4 unique flasks.  This belt has been used at Ironman races around the world by top pro’s and age-groupers to keep them hydrated during the marathon.  The newest belts have just been produced with pockets AND reflective material.   Fuel Belts come in a few different versions- the 20 ounce belt with pockets and reflective material or the 40 ounce belt with the same.  Staying hydrated is half the battle for most athlete’s.  Get more out of your training and racing.  If you don’t believe us, just ask anyone who’s used one.  For more information, please visit us at:  www.fuelbelt.com   Best wishes in your training and racing! -Vinu Vinu Malik President, Fuel Belt p:  617.868.9506 (direct) p:  888.666.BELT (2358) f:  617.661.7808 w:  www.fuelbelt.com Fuel Belt:  Proven at Ironman races around the world…

Response:

Question:

I’m doing my first sprint Triathlon next Sunday. 40 lengths in a pool, 20K bike, 5K run. It’s likely to be warm 60-70 degrees. What should I wear considering I do not possess a tri suit. Thanks Phil

Response:

Phil – I’d just wear a Speedo or a pair of tri-shorts. gordo

Response:

I like using regular cycling shorts for both running and cycling.  Being a 230 lb. clydsdale, if I didn’t use these short I’d have a problems with leg rubbing and chaffing.  with the short there are no such problems.

Response:

William, We (DE SOTO SPORT) make a pair of bike shorts with a special pad that absorbs very little water so they are very comfortable to use for an entire triathlon.  We made them specifically for that.  They are called CLASSIC BIKE SHORTS.  We offer it in XL too.  If you are interested, e-mail me your snail mail address and I will send you a catalog, or call 800 453 6673. Stay fit, Emilio De Soto II

Response:

Question:

Sunday I’ll be finishing my season, a quickie in Central Park for a total of two this summer. Now, I’m thinking about next year, probably a couple of OD’s and maybe a 1/2 FeMan and would like to go about it right. I imagine there are others like me who would like to see some sample winter programs from you experienced guys and gals and maybe a little discussion on common pitfalls that lead to burnout, overtraining or whatever.  I know some of this is covered in the FAQ, but maybe we could find a format to nurture us lonely, non-affiliated, newbies along and a way to check progress. As for me, I need to straighten out a muscular imbalance in my knee and between legs and would like to learn how some of you build a base, with time as a constraint and how you juggle the training between events.   Relative to each other, I don’t think I have a weakest event.  Relative to other triathletes, I think I have all weak events.  But, I’d like to learn and learn how to improve steadily. All comments on your experiences will be greatly appreciated. Paul

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: Internet Online Services Sunday I’ll be finishing my season, a quickie in Central Park for a total of two this summer. Now, I’m thinking about next year, probably a couple of OD’s and maybe a 1/2 FeMan and would like to go about it right. I imagine there are others like me who would like to see some sample winter programs from you experienced guys and gals and maybe a little discussion on common pitfalls that lead to burnout, overtraining or whatever.  I know some of this is covered in the FAQ, but maybe we could find a format to nurture us lonely, non-affiliated, newbies along and a way to check progress. As for me, I need to straighten out a muscular imbalance in my knee and between legs and would like to learn how some of you build a base, with time as a constraint and how you juggle the training between events.   Relative to each other, I don’t think I have a weakest event.  Relative to other triathletes, I think I have all weak events.  But, I’d like to learn and learn how to improve steadily. All comments on your experiences will be greatly appreciated. Paul

Response:

Sunday I’ll be finishing my season  [stuff delted] I imagine there are others like me who would like to see some sample winter   programs from you experienced guys and gals

Winter?  Did I miss something?  My *first* race was 8/13 and I’ve got at least 2 to go. Just my 2 cents on winter training:   1) weights 2) allow yourself to get deliberately ‘lopsided’.  I often will up my running mileage in the fall and early winter because its cool and more pleasant, then work more on swimming in the winter.  Biking is in many ways the easiest (quickest) sport in which to get *back* in shape, so sometimes I’ll let it go when the snow flies. Art Hutchinson (using my wife’s account) Newton, MA

Response:

Winter?  Did I miss something?  My *first* race was 8/13 and I’ve got at least 2 to go. Just my 2 cents on winter training:   1) weights 2) allow yourself to get deliberately ‘lopsided’.  I often will up my running mileage in the fall and early winter because its cool and more pleasant, then work more on swimming in the winter.  Biking is in many ways the easiest (quickest) sport in which to get *back* in shape, so sometimes I’ll let it go when the snow flies. Art Hutchinson (using my wife’s account) Newton, MA

I don’t think biking is the *easiest* sport to get back into, but I agree on the ‘lopsided’ training.  I focus on running during the winter since it’s my worst event.  Last winter I ran tons, including several road races, and watched my summer tri running times drop quite a bit. Concentrating on your weakest event in the off-season is a great way to improve endurance, form, and efficiency without worrying about cramming in training time for the other events.   joe jankovsky "Your mother sews license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?" -Val Kilmer in _Real Genius_         WWW:    http://minerva.cis.yale.edu/~jjankov/             New England Triathlon Page:           http://minerva.cis.yale.edu/~jjankov/ne.html

Response:

Question:

Penna. triathlete needs to find someone to share a hotel room with during the week of Ironman. Hotel and car reservations are already made. You can

Response:

Hi caroline- I guess you are posting roomate needed for yourself, right? I am also looking for hotel room or roommate for the Ironman weekend. In case it is OK for a guy also, please let me know. This will be my 1st Ironman and I really need somebody to give me some advice. Thank you for your attention. Fan Zhang Dept. of Pharmaceutics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

Response:

Question:

Check out our Software page at the Runner’s Web. Ken I am looking for a FREEWARE or cheap training software to help on my training (running, biking, swimming, workout, etc.) Thank you for any help. Rafael Guerra

Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Response:

Hi, I am looking for a FREEWARE or cheap training software to help on my training (running, biking, swimming, workout, etc.) Thank you for any help. Rafael Guerra

There seem to be quite a few of free/free trial/shareware/cheap programs out there. Some links I stumbled across: http://storm.cadcam.iupui.edu/drs/software.html http://running.miningco.com/Msub11.htm?pid=2816&cob=home http://www.logajog.com/ Let us know, if you find some of them useful. Cheers,    Kaj

Response:

I am looking for a FREEWARE or cheap training software to help on my training (running, biking, swimming, workout, etc.) Thank you for any help. Rafael Guerra

Response:

Does anyone know of a Windows software program for keeping training race records? I seem to remember there use to be something called the Jim Fixx Runner’s Diary. thanks, Hugh Weisman

Response:

Does anyone know of a Windows software program for keeping training race records? I seem to remember there use to be something called the Jim Fixx Runner’s Diary.

Be prepared for an onslaught of answers!! Here’s my short one – information about The Athlete’s Diary is available from sites listed in the .sig below.  Also available for Macintosh and DOS. Steve Patt, Stevens Creek Software   http://alumni.caltech.edu/~slp/tad.html (The Athlete’s Diary home page)   ftp://alumni.caltech.edu/pub/slp (Information and demo copies)   1-800-TA-DIARY (information and orders by phone)

Response: