Question:

I’m confused.  I can’t seem to figure out where and when the National Championships are.  I’ve heard that there is more than one, Mrs T’s and Lake Placid, but I just found out from an earlier post that Mrs T’s is Lake Placid!  Can anyone help me out?  And do these races have World Spots?  Thanks in advance. Adam "A Very Confused Junior" Henry

Response:

There isn’t much posted yet about ‘01 but check out www.usatriathlon.org for future updates of 2001 races. The only ‘01 championship race posted is copied below: 2001 National Sprint Championship August 5, 2001 Huntington’s Disease Triathlon Key Biscayne, FL

Question:

Nope, they have everything on me they need ! — Lynne Fonda-Kosorek NOVA MATCH USAT Certified Triathlon Coach President, USAT SW Board of Directors TEAM USA ‘97,98 Track & Cross Country Coach. Monterey High School – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I did not respond to the first extensive questionaire they sent me way back when. Now they have twice sent me postcards asking me to call and give my info for this directory. Exactly what is the point of this directory? Is it a good thing for triathletes? What do other RSTers think about this? Are you sending in your info? I’d hate to be a grinch and hold out if it’s the right thing to do. if I had a tri directory then would I be lookig up all my competition? Ken

Response:

Response:

Nope, they have everything on me they need !

Here come the telemarketers again…                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Question:

In a word, go long…I think. I’d up my number of century rides to 5 or 6 (from 2-3) with one or two of them 110-120.  I’d add some long bricks (70/20, 80/15, 90/10) and long runs, like 3 or 4 18-22 milers.  I don’t think I ran more than 15 since February and that wasn’t enough. YOW! Well, I guess that does actually work for some folks.  Nobody’s got the perfect plan.  But it sounds excessive to me.  Those bricks you’ve described sound like they would just explode a body. But again, I’m not a really competitive tri-geek.

Hey, who you calling a geek? I should probably have sprinkled in some disclaimers.  I had a target of 11:00 and I’m usually around a top 10% finisher.  Since I didn’t achieve that, and I don’t really know why, I’m thinking some longer training might have helped.  Going into the race I felt I had done enough, but maybe not (for me). On another note, I’ve learned that for most folks the smarter way to train is by hours rather than miles.

Agreed, and I do the same. Again, no one has the perfect plan, but definitely don’t feel that you *have* to do extreme distances in order to complete Ironman. It can be done on less.

True, and this is where I should have "disclaimed" (is that a word?). To finish, and even to finish with a reasonable time and comfortable, the distances I suggested aren’t required.  I hastily wrote what I wrote thinking that everyone that wants to do an ironman is looking to race it. — Cheers, Doug "go long…but only if you want to" Fuller IMLP-99, 12:40 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!)

Yup, I know exactly what you mean. And you know what, I’m really jealous, because I’ll never have that first time feeling ever again. Well done Mike, get used to having a tired jaw because it will take months for the grin to wear off! Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

Response:

what’s this OCN, ORN, OSN stuff I’m suddenly seeing in peoples’ sigs; I can see that it has something to do with bike, swim and run workouts, but what do the letters stand for? whence came this idea?

It’s an artifact from the DRS mail list. OTN = Obligatory Training Note (this is the master abbreviation–the others are derivatives) OCN = Obligatory Cycling Note OSN = Ob. Swimming Note Rick "You get the idea" Denney OR(aining)N: I wish some of this damn rain in Wisconsin would go over to my parched yard in Virginia and not interfere with my running!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training. Todd: In a word, go long…I think.  I had serious trouble at LP and I haven’t figured it out yet, but having not done any workouts longer than 5.5 hours, which was less than half my race, I’d look to do a couple 7-8 hour (or longer) workouts just to get a feel for physically exerting for that long.  I’d up my number of century rides to 5 or 6 (from 2-3) with one or two of them 110-120.  I’d add some long bricks (70/20, 80/15, 90/10) and long runs, like 3 or 4 18-22 milers.  I don’t think I ran more than 15 since February and that wasn’t enough.

YOW! Well, I guess that does actually work for some folks.  Nobody’s got the perfect plan.  But it sounds excessive to me.  Those bricks you’ve described sound like they would just explode a body.  But again, I’m not a really competitive tri-geek.  But I can tell you that such extremes are not *necessary* in order to go the distance. On another note, I’ve learned that for most folks the smarter way to train is by hours rather than miles.  That’s why my long rides have only totalled up to 80 miles or so.  That represents 6 to 6.5 hours of riding time, but that’s because I climb a lot.  And because I’m a sucky runner and also run a lot of hills, 3 hours of running for me only totals up to about 16 miles.  In the end, though, all that climbing on both the bike and the run ended up standing me in good stead in Ironman, ’cause it makes your legs very "strong", and you need that strength to keep chugging along on race day. Again, no one has the perfect plan, but definitely don’t feel that you *have* to do extreme distances in order to complete Ironman.  It can be done on less.  I would definitely recommend focussing more on *hours* rather than miles. Just another $.02.  YMMV.  :) — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

what’s this OCN, ORN, OSN stuff I’m suddenly seeing in peoples’ sigs; I can see that it has something to do with bike, swim and run workouts, but what do the letters stand for? whence came this idea? — TriathRon                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / (ASCII art blatantly plagiarized from TriBaby’s sig . . . ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Schwing-a-ding wrote… : tell you that every weekend when I did a century it was easier than the : previous weekend’s century. … : perhaps even detrimental if you don’t allow for recovery from it, but it is : definitely mentally advantageous to go that distance. At least IMHO. To Jason’s…. : agree that a quality 3-4 hour ride is often worth more than 6+ hours of : just riding. I think you both have a point, but you really need both types.  5-6+ hours in the saddle is necessary at least a couple of times to prepare for the mental and physical stress (not to mention the tedium!) of being in the sadddle that long on race day, but yeah, you also need quality.  If all you did was 6 hour ‘junk mile’ rides, you’d lose a lot.  OTOH, I think once you’re getting up to 6 hours in your aerobic zone, those really aren’t junk miles — I tend to think of those as 2-4 hour non ‘quality’ rides.  Again, that holds as long as you’re getting in quality elsewhere. But what the heck do I know?  Guess I’ll find out if I’m right in … oh, 11 days or so. Mike OC(anada)N: At Canadian customs yesterday, when queried about the purpose of my visit, I got to say "To do Ironman Canada!".  That felt good. ORN: 51 minutes easy along the Elbow River in Calgary OCN: About to do a 1-1:30 easy ride along the same river … gorgeous, I tells ya!

Response:

okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.

Todd: In a word, go long…I think.  I had serious trouble at LP and I haven’t figured it out yet, but having not done any workouts longer than 5.5 hours, which was less than half my race, I’d look to do a couple 7-8 hour (or longer) workouts just to get a feel for physically exerting for that long.  I’d up my number of century rides to 5 or 6 (from 2-3) with one or two of them 110-120.  I’d add some long bricks (70/20, 80/15, 90/10) and long runs, like 3 or 4 18-22 milers.  I don’t think I ran more than 15 since February and that wasn’t enough. — Cheers, Doug "still trying to figure it all out" Fuller IMLP-99, 12:40 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Oh, my reason had nothing to do with the competition in the age group I’m currently in, I just think it’ll be a few years before I do it again. I’m so damned slow I’m usually competing for last place in my AG. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just be glad you are not in the 25-29 male age group.   Take a look at the last quailfying time in 25-29 and compare it to 30-34 and 35-39!!!! Thanks! To clarify what I meant: I really meant that I could have used an extra year or two worth of experience, and the 100 mile bike rides that come along with that. There is no way I could have possibly have worked in more long rides than I did for this race and still have been injury free for race day. I was only able to start riding again in February after battling sciatica, so for the amount of training that was possible for me, I am sure I was built up to the proper volume before my taper began. I have Coach Troy to thank for that, our goal was to get me to Lake Placid race day injury free and to have me finish the race and not worry about times. We met that goal together and I’m damned happy about it! Troy even came up to the race to cheer his athletes on, and it was awesome to see him as I was coming down the home stretch. I have no plans to do another Ironman in this age group (30-34), however I’m 33 now. It was a very cool experience. Mike Mike, B I G   C O N G R A D U L A T I O N S ! ! ! Hope to be in your category soon. Just How many centuries would you have done beforehand? By the way r you gearing up for another IM? Rick OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!) Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. The other thing I will do is put a toothbrush in my special needs bags for both the bike and the run, as well as some breath mints or something like that. My mouth tasted so horrible after eating Gu, pretzels, bananas, potato chips, and drinking that lousy damned Powerade that I kept hoping that one of the aid stations would have someting, anything, to make my mouth taste better. Schwing okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I have no plans to do another Ironman in this age group (30-34), however I’m 33 now. It was a very cool experience. Does that mean you *will* be doing IM-distance races when you age up? — TriathRon

lol…Ron, give him some time. Ironman is like getting so wasted with alcohol that you swear off of it for the week immediately afterward. You can still feel the hurting. Give him one to two weeks, and Mike will be filling out an application for his next Ironman in no time. Iron Pete "Ironman is an addition" Priolo

Response:

Schwing-a-ding wrote…

: tell you that every weekend when I did a century it was easier than the : previous weekend’s century. … : perhaps even detrimental if you don’t allow for recovery from it, but it is : definitely mentally advantageous to go that distance. At least IMHO. To Jason’s…. : agree that a quality 3-4 hour ride is often worth more than 6+ hours of : just riding. I think you both have a point, but you really need both types.  5-6+ hours in the saddle is necessary at least a couple of times to prepare for the mental and physical stress (not to mention the tedium!) of being in the sadddle that long on race day, but yeah, you also need quality.  If all you did was 6 hour ‘junk mile’ rides, you’d lose a lot.  OTOH, I think once you’re getting up to 6 hours in your aerobic zone, those really aren’t junk miles — I tend to think of those as 2-4 hour non ‘quality’ rides.  Again, that holds as long as you’re getting in quality elsewhere. But what the heck do I know?  Guess I’ll find out if I’m right in … oh, 11 days or so. Mike OC(anada)N: At Canadian customs yesterday, when queried about the purpose of my visit, I got to say "To do Ironman Canada!".  That felt good. ORN: 51 minutes easy along the Elbow River in Calgary OCN: About to do a 1-1:30 easy ride along the same river … gorgeous, I tells ya!

Response:

OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!)

Congratulations, Mike.  Feels great, doesn’t it? Schwing

Shouldn’t that be "IronSchwing"? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Response:

You know, I guess that depends on your particular philosophy, or whoever convinces you about how you should train, or who you pay for coaching. I can tell you that every weekend when I did a century it was easier than the previous weekend’s century. I also think that the mental toughness of going on for 100 or miles at a time must count for something. I can ride 80 miles with no trouble, but those last 20 or so always challenge me, repeated challenges like that make long rides and races easier to deal with, don’t you think? Riding 80 miles is really nothing like riding 110 miles, it might be physically taxing and perhaps even detrimental if you don’t allow for recovery from it, but it is definitely mentally advantageous to go that distance. At least IMHO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things : differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I : did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for : Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more : century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. Mike….it might not be that you didn’t do enough, but that you did too many of them.  Junk miles are junk miles…I think lots of people now agree that a quality 3-4 hour ride is often worth more than 6+ hours of just riding. — Jason Mayfield     Arlington, VA JasonCam Live!  http://www.shagadellic.org/jcam "That way is a very nice way.  It’s pleasant down THAT way too.  Of course, people do….go both ways!"  - The Scarecrow from Wizard of Oz 12 Days Until Ironman Canada ‘99

Response:

Just be glad you are not in the 25-29 male age group.   Take a look at the last quailfying time in 25-29 and compare it to 30-34 and 35-39!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks! To clarify what I meant: I really meant that I could have used an extra year or two worth of experience, and the 100 mile bike rides that come along with that. There is no way I could have possibly have worked in more long rides than I did for this race and still have been injury free for race day. I was only able to start riding again in February after battling sciatica, so for the amount of training that was possible for me, I am sure I was built up to the proper volume before my taper began. I have Coach Troy to thank for that, our goal was to get me to Lake Placid race day injury free and to have me finish the race and not worry about times. We met that goal together and I’m damned happy about it! Troy even came up to the race to cheer his athletes on, and it was awesome to see him as I was coming down the home stretch. I have no plans to do another Ironman in this age group (30-34), however I’m 33 now. It was a very cool experience. Mike Mike, B I G   C O N G R A D U L A T I O N S ! ! ! Hope to be in your category soon. Just How many centuries would you have done beforehand? By the way r you gearing up for another IM? Rick OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!) Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. The other thing I will do is put a toothbrush in my special needs bags for both the bike and the run, as well as some breath mints or something like that. My mouth tasted so horrible after eating Gu, pretzels, bananas, potato chips, and drinking that lousy damned Powerade that I kept hoping that one of the aid stations would have someting, anything, to make my mouth taste better. Schwing okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I have no plans to do another Ironman in this age group (30-34), however I’m 33 now. It was a very cool experience.

Does that mean you *will* be doing IM-distance races when you age up? — TriathRon                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / (ASCII art blatantly plagiarized from TriBaby’s sig . . . )

Response:

Thanks! To clarify what I meant: I really meant that I could have used an extra year or two worth of experience, and the 100 mile bike rides that come along with that. There is no way I could have possibly have worked in more long rides than I did for this race and still have been injury free for race day. I was only able to start riding again in February after battling sciatica, so for the amount of training that was possible for me, I am sure I was built up to the proper volume before my taper began. I have Coach Troy to thank for that, our goal was to get me to Lake Placid race day injury free and to have me finish the race and not worry about times. We met that goal together and I’m damned happy about it! Troy even came up to the race to cheer his athletes on, and it was awesome to see him as I was coming down the home stretch. I have no plans to do another Ironman in this age group (30-34), however I’m 33 now. It was a very cool experience. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, B I G   C O N G R A D U L A T I O N S ! ! ! Hope to be in your category soon. Just How many centuries would you have done beforehand? By the way r you gearing up for another IM? Rick OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!) Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. The other thing I will do is put a toothbrush in my special needs bags for both the bike and the run, as well as some breath mints or something like that. My mouth tasted so horrible after eating Gu, pretzels, bananas, potato chips, and drinking that lousy damned Powerade that I kept hoping that one of the aid stations would have someting, anything, to make my mouth taste better. Schwing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego

Response:

Hi Todd, I just finished The Longest Day and the best advice I can give you is: 1. make sure you get your long training bike rides in (100+ miles) 2. know what you can eat on the bike… I found myself chewing on a Go-Bar for 15mins … gels seemed to work best (for me)… the point being, practice it 3. don’t go out fast on the bike… stick to a your plan, e.g. heart rate 4. if you are feeling v. v. v. drained on the run… drink flat coke… I wished I had not waited till the last lap of 3 Hope this helps… Ro. Tri Preston (Longest Day ‘99 10:06)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego

Response:

OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!) Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. The other thing I will do is put a toothbrush in my special needs bags for both the bike and the run, as well as some breath mints or something like that. My mouth tasted so horrible after eating Gu, pretzels, bananas, potato chips, and drinking that lousy damned Powerade that I kept hoping that one of the aid stations would have someting, anything, to make my mouth taste better. Schwing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego

Response:

Mike, B I G   C O N G R A D U L A T I O N S ! ! ! Hope to be in your category soon. Just How many centuries would you have done beforehand? By the way r you gearing up for another IM? Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I just got back from IMUSA ( Hey! I AM AN IRONMAN! I’ve been waiting to say that for SO long!) Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. The other thing I will do is put a toothbrush in my special needs bags for both the bike and the run, as well as some breath mints or something like that. My mouth tasted so horrible after eating Gu, pretzels, bananas, potato chips, and drinking that lousy damned Powerade that I kept hoping that one of the aid stations would have someting, anything, to make my mouth taste better. Schwing okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego

Response:

okay – let’s hear the do and don’ts from you ironmen.  i would especially like to hear from firsttimers about what you would have done different during your training.  i am doing IMCAL and would really appreciate your wisdom. todd sandiego

Response:

: Two things I have been thinking – if I do another one I will do two things : differently – I will put in WAY more 100 mile bike rides than I did, and I : did a lot of them, I thought, I built up from 5 hour rides in May for : Eagleman to 6-6.5 hour rides at peak in July. I could have used alot more : century rides underneath my belt on Sunday. Mike….it might not be that you didn’t do enough, but that you did too many of them.  Junk miles are junk miles…I think lots of people now agree that a quality 3-4 hour ride is often worth more than 6+ hours of just riding.

Hills. My longest training ride last year?  80 miles.  Longest training ride this year?  82 miles.  The thing is, though, that each of those involved a lot of climbing.  Something on the order of 5,000 feet of climbing.  And my short rides during the week?  Usually 20 miles of….hills.  Actually, out of the 20 miles, about 6 or 7 would be climbing miles. Of course, I’m a 13-to-13.5 hour type, so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe if I banged out a few more actual centuries in training my bike split would improve.  But it’s really hard to ride 100 miles in this neck of the woods without climbing a lot, and that ends up meaning that riding 100 miles takes around 7 hours.  At least for Slug-O here.  :p   But at any rate, Schwing, it sounds as if you did FABULOUSLY in your first IM, and on a course that many are reporting to be tougher than Canada’s. CONGRATULATIONS, IRONMAN!  :)   WOOHOOOO! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

Question:

I’m with Mike!  70 degrees is sweatshirt and tights weather, not triathlon weather.  

Charlie, up here north of the Mason-Dixon line, 70 degrees is often a good reason to get out the suntan oil, take off the t-shirt, and fire up the barbeque.  For a triathlon, we would need extra aid stations, and EMT’s on hand for that sure-to-happen case of heatstroke! Greg Pressler

Response:

With all the talk about blocking– HELP!!! When I go to pass someone, I have 15 seconds to make my pass. Is my pass complete when my front wheel passes their front wheel??? If that is so, what happens if that person I passed does not drop back? Or is the pass complete when my entire bike gets around the person. I thought that once my front tire gets ahead of the other persons tire I am passing they have to drop back, or they are blocking. Right? Wrong?  Close? D.J.               (Please speak slowly IRONKID) Hi Elspeth!!!

Response:

With all the talk about blocking– HELP!!! When I go to pass someone, I have 15 seconds to make my pass. Is my pass complete when my front wheel passes their front wheel???

YES, actually as soon as the leading edge of your front wheel passes his. If that is so, what happens if that person I passed does not drop back?

He should be penalized for a position violation, see rule 5.10 g " Being Overtaken" Or is the pass complete when my entire bike gets around the person. I thought that once my front tire gets ahead of the other persons tire I am passing they have to drop back, or they are blocking. Right? Wrong?  Close?

Close but, Not blocking , they are in violation of rule 5.10 g. D.J.               (Please speak slowly IRONKID) Hi Elspeth!!!

Bruce Platt Chairman, USAT Safety & Rules Committee USAT Cat 1 Official

Response:

When I go to pass someone, I have 15 seconds to make my pass. Is my pass complete when my front wheel passes their front wheel???

Yes. If that is so, what happens if that person I passed does not drop back?

Drafting or illegal position violation.  They may not challenge you.  they must drop back. Lynne

Response:

My mistake.  I meant: 5.10 (g)  "Being Overtaken"

Response:

: so you are suggesting we take Nationals up north where it is cold (I consider : 70 degrees to be cold). I don’t race well in the cold, so I would be at a : disadvantage. You see, you can’t win, no matter where it is, someone will : complain. : Fer chrissake, Mike….you consider 70 degrees to be COLD??????  Far be it for : me to call someone a wimp (especially when that someone can kick my butt in just : about any multisport race on earth)—but you WIMP!!! I’m with Mike!  70 degrees is sweatshirt and tights weather, not triathlon weather.   -Charlie  

Response:

Is the National Championships _just_ a qualifier for the World Championships or is it also the championship race for the United States.

I agree with you Chuck, even though I qualify most years, I rarely go to Worlds. I ahve been before, but for one reason or another, I usually can’t go. Nationals should be nationals, not just a selection race. That is why I go, not necessarily to make the team, but to know that I am competing against the best in the country. For this same reason, we should only have one qualifier, and it should be nationals, that way everyone is there. You don’t have people skipping Nationals because they already qualified at some other race. << Fer chrissake, Mike….you consider 70 degrees to be COLD??????  Far be it for me to call someone a wimp (especially when that someone can kick my butt in just about any multisport race on earth)—but you WIMP!!! OK, I admit it, I am a wimp when it comes to cold weather, and 70 is cold to me. I don’t even start riding till March when it starts getting warmer, like at least 70 degrees. If it is cold outside, then the water is usually colder. Mike Plumb

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not to complain, don’t get me wrong, but the location (at least of the duathlon nationals) was a poor decision on the half of USAT.  The heat affected the race unfairly for anyone who wasn’t able to train in it.  Before you start flaming me, the race directors, etc. were great…this was one of the best races I’ve ever attended.  For a National Championship, however, the 90 some degree heat made it difficult for those of us from the frozen north (70 degree summers) to race well.  Exhibit A: I went for a run the day before the race at about a 10 minute mile pace, and ended up with a heart race of 162.  Exhibit B: From the Top 5 in my age group, 4 were from Texas or Georgia.  The 1 that had a good race who lived in the North required 2 IV’s (this is all hearsay) after the race. While I do agree that this race definitly did deserve the Nationals, USAT ought to consider putting the race in a more temperate environment in the future (unless, of course, the race in Mexico or some other blazingly hot place). Marlborough, I can almost guarantee, will not be giving advantages.  Those hills will break everyone’s legs. Paul

I raced at Clermont in Tri Nationals, and I was unprepared for the race because of the heat and humidity and my body’s inability to cope with it. Personally, I wish that the race had been held in a cooler location, however, I learned that you can train for races like this in cooler climates by training indoors with a heater, at least this is what Tony Schiller claimed, and, being from Minnesota, he should have been most affected by the heat. However, he managed the fastest time in his age group, even though he was penalized two minutes for a position foul. Anyone who is going to take Nationals seriously is going to have to be prepared for the potential conditions of the race (hills, heat, humidity, whatever) if they are going to do their best.  I know that in the future I won’t be ill-prepared for a race like this if I have aspirations of doing well.  I think everyone who raced in either of the National races learned a lot about themselves and what it takes to compete in this sport.  That’s what makes this sport so interesting and challenging… you’ve got to be prepared for a variety of conditions that might be thrown at you.  We shouldn’t expect USAT to plan races in climate controlled conditions, nor expect that they can build race courses that eliminate any chance of human error (a different thread).

Response:

 For a National Championship, however, the 90 some degree heat made it difficult for those of us from the frozen north (70 degree summers) to race well. so you are suggesting we take Nationals up north where it is cold (I consider 70 degrees to be cold). I don’t race well in the cold, so I would be at a disadvantage. You see, you can’t win, no matter where it is, someone will complain.

Fer chrissake, Mike….you consider 70 degrees to be COLD??????  Far be it for me to call someone a wimp (especially when that someone can kick my butt in just about any multisport race on earth)—but you WIMP!!! Greg Pressler

Response:

The heat affected the race unfairly for anyone who wasn’t able to train in it.

You know this reminds me of when i was watching the LA Olympic Games marathon, when it was hot. The announcers went on about how prepered Alberto Salazar was, that he had trained his body to retain more fluids. Then they talked about how people like John Treacy (I think) from Ireland was at a disadvantage being from Ireland, and having a very white skinned appearence. Well you know what happened, Salazar faded and Treacy got the silver. Racing in the heat does not necessarily have anything to do with training in it, although it helps. Its all about being prepared. I was for Clermont, but not for New Orleans. The heat got me there. But I didn’t feel it in Clermont, at least not until after the race.  For a National Championship, however, the 90 some degree heat made it difficult for those of us from the frozen north (70 degree summers) to race well.

so you are suggesting we take Nationals up north where it is cold (I consider 70 degrees to be cold). I don’t race well in the cold, so I would be at a disadvantage. You see, you can’t win, no matter where it is, someone will complain. From the Top 5 in my age group, 4 were from Texas or Georgia.

could that be because the race was easier to get to for people in the south, so maybe there were more southerners in the race? Look at the results from Clermont, why do you think there were a lot of people racing from Florida? Mike Plumb

Response:

I think that this has been brought up before but…  Shouldn’t the Nationals be held in a location that will be somewhat similar to where the Worlds will be held?  I’m not sure which part of the Clermont race has any relevance to a race in Switzerland. John Welch

Response:

I think that this has been brought up before but… Shouldn’t the Nationals be held in a location that will be somewhat similar to where the Worlds will be held?  I’m not sure which part of the Clermont race has any relevance to a race in Switzerland.

Is the National Championships _just_ a qualifier for the World Championships or is it also the championship race for the United States. If both, then shouldn’t it be rotated around the country as a fairness issue to athletes from all over our very large country? I think that was Mike’s point and one which I agree with. And, unlike Mike and a bunch of others in the NG, I’m someone without a great deal of (realistic 8^) hope of ever getting in that top 12. But, I’m someone who would like to race with the best of the best in my nation sometimes. So again with the fairness issue, is the purpose of the race just to pick the top 12 under conditions like those at wherever Worlds is going to be or should USAT take folks like me into account too? I’m not trying to pick a fight. My comments are more rhetorical questions than anything else. But as I have read the comments about this issue over the past few weeks, as a resident of the south I’ve often wondered "but what about folks like me?"   — Chuck (who just got back in from a hilly 14 mile run in 90F heat and             who’s head may not have cooled all the way off yet…)                Department of Biology,  University of Alabama at Birmingham             http://www.uab.edu/uabbio/amsler.htm

Response:

Not to complain, don’t get me wrong, but the location (at least of the duathlon nationals) was a poor decision on the half of USAT.  The heat affected the race unfairly for anyone who wasn’t able to train in it.  Before you start flaming me, the race directors, etc. were great…this was one of the best races I’ve ever attended.  For a National Championship, however, the 90 some degree heat made it difficult for those of us from the frozen north (70 degree summers) to race well.  Exhibit A: I went for a run the day before the race at about a 10 minute mile pace, and ended up with a heart race of 162.  Exhibit B: From the Top 5 in my age group, 4 were from Texas or Georgia.  The 1 that had a good race who lived in the North required 2 IV’s (this is all hearsay) after the race. While I do agree that this race definitly did deserve the Nationals, USAT ought to consider putting the race in a more temperate environment in the future (unless, of course, the race in Mexico or some other blazingly hot place). Marlborough, I can almost guarantee, will not be giving advantages.  Those hills will break everyone’s legs. Paul

Response:

Well now that both USAT National events are done, the complaints have started to fly. A lot of the criticism has stemmed from it being so hot here in the south. Well, welcome to the south. What did you expect? cool weather? For years I have gone to werever Nationals were. They were in Chicago, on a flat course, I went even though I think flat courses are unfair, they favor the strong swimmers. They were in California (Orange County), I went, even though it was  a major expense going all the way across the country. Descent course, but far away. I went to Columbia twice, a great course, very fair to all. Last year it was very hot there too. As a matter of fact, I would be interested in comparing temps from there to this year in Clermont, probably not a whole lot different. This year, both races were in the south, my backyard. It was time for everyone to come play in my backyard for a change. Well almost. Clermont is still a 7 hour drive for me. Clermont had the best course I had ever done for a National Championship. New Orleans, well like I said I don’t like (re: do well on) flat courses. Funny thing is that I don’t have any really good hills to train on as I live on the Gulf coast. But noentheless, the race in New Orleans was put on superbly. Bottom line is, quit complaining, the race management at both of these races was superb, and the weather can’t be controlled. Sure choosing the sight can be controlled, but how fair is it to have the race way up north every year, just because its a little cooler up there. I say have Nationals in Clermont every year. Next year. have the Duathlon there too. Sorry for taking up bandwidth to bitch, but someone has to stick up for these great race directors, without them, we wouldn’t have races to go to. Mike Plumb

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well now that both USAT National events are done, the complaints have started to fly. A lot of the criticism has stemmed from it being so hot here in the south. Well, welcome to the south. What did you expect? cool weather? For years I have gone to werever Nationals were. They were in Chicago, on a flat course, I went even though I think flat courses are unfair, they favor the strong swimmers. They were in California (Orange County), I went, even though it was  a major expense going all the way across the country. Descent course, but far away. I went to Columbia twice, a great course, very fair to all. Last year it was very hot there too. As a matter of fact, I would be interested in comparing temps from there to this year in Clermont, probably not a whole lot different. This year, both races were in the south, my backyard. It was time for everyone to come play in my backyard for a change. Well almost. Clermont is still a 7 hour drive for me. Clermont had the best course I had ever done for a National Championship. New Orleans, well like I said I don’t like (re: do well on) flat courses. Funny thing is that I don’t have any really good hills to train on as I live on the Gulf coast. But noentheless, the race in New Orleans was put on superbly. Bottom line is, quit complaining, the race management at both of these races was superb, and the weather can’t be controlled. Sure choosing the sight can be controlled, but how fair is it to have the race way up north every year, just because its a little cooler up there. I say have Nationals in Clermont every year. Next year. have the Duathlon there too. Sorry for taking up bandwidth to bitch, but someone has to stick up for these great race directors, without them, we wouldn’t have races to go to. Mike Plumb

  Well said Mike. I couldn’t agree more. Clermont has been one of the best kept secrets of the tri world and Fred Sommer is undoubtedly one of the best Race Directors in the country. Those competitors that came from other parts of the country expecting a cake walk found out that Florida does have challenging hills. Indeed, Fred was a bit easy on the course layout. He could have included a real challenging run course that included some interesting terrain changes. I heard rumor to the effect that Clermont will host the Nationals for the next two years. I’ll vote for that. The course is great, the area is terrific for visitors with families and next year USAT home will be there. Yea it’s hot but lets face it, triathlon is a warm weather sport. Regrettably this years inaugural race was unseasonably hot. Hopefully next year will be more seasonable, like highs in the low 90’s. . Cheers, Bernie Sher

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Question:

I am an ROTC cadet soon to be an INFANTRY officer!  I am responsible for training the cadets in our unit.  I am also an experienced competitive runner and triathlete.  However, I have a problem. We meet three mornings a week at 5am for physical training, which consists of mostly push-ups, sit-ups, and running.  Once we have finished the other exercises, we generally only have 45 minutes left for the running. Unfortunately, most of the cadets do not enjoy the running and I cannot convince them to run on the other days of the week. I would appreciate any input anyone has on how to best train these cadets with the limited time I have.  I have some ideas from my experience, but would like to hear more input.  (I already know these will never be Olympic runners, but it is important for them to do well)

I’d suggest figuring out a way to make it a competition. Don’t just run them. 4 person, 1/4 mile relays, with the last finishers doing push-ups. Group cadence runs with fartlek scrambles (i.e. "OK, sprint to the next phone pole. Last 5 do push-ups.") etc…… Mike "TriBop" Tennent WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities   http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

Response:

Greetings Soldier, As a former Marine I familiar with your problem. The best bet is to do some variation of the Runner’s World beginner’s training program. A combination of Run/Marching ( walking for civilians). Start by marching for 4 munitues and Running for 2. Do this 3 times. Increase the running while decreasing the marching time and until the troops are running for the full half hour. Then increase the overall running time to fill the 45 minute time with running. This will probably get them to running about 4 to 5 miles. This should give them to endurance to be able to run the 2 miles  fairly quickly ( especially by Army standards, just kidding!!)  You can download the entire program at: www.ruunersworld.com look for the beginner’s program. Be well! Reggie aka Racer X, Los Angeles

Response:

Unfortunately, most of the cadets do not enjoy the running and I cannot convince them to run on the other days of the week.

        But you can make them do whatever in the realm of training on the three days you have them, right? I am trying to get them in the best running shape I can for a 2-mile run in a  physical fitness test they will be taking in mid-June. I would appreciate any input anyone has on how to best train these cadets with the limited time I have.

        I would look up the time required to "max" the 2-mile run (Am I correct in thinking that below a certain time is considered 100% satisfactory?) and divide by four to get 800m paces.  I’d then have them run 4×800 two days a week with this pace as the goal, allowing about 4 minutes of rest in between (just enough time to very slowly jog a lap after everyone gets done).  The other day I’d just go for a 40 minute run.         If this test isn’t until June, I wouldn’t start this routine until April.  Until then, 40 minute runs will do.                                                         – Bret Jensen

Response:

I am an ROTC cadet soon to be an INFANTRY officer!  I am responsible for training the cadets in our unit.  I am also an experienced competitive runner and triathlete.  However, I have a problem. We meet three mornings a week at 5am for physical training, which consists of mostly push-ups, sit-ups, and running.  Once we have finished the other exercises, we generally only have 45 minutes left for the running. Unfortunately, most of the cadets do not enjoy the running and I cannot convince them to run on the other days of the week. I am trying to get them in the best running shape I can for a 2-mile run in a  physical fitness test they will be taking in mid-June.  This test will help to determine the rest of their careers!   I would appreciate any input anyone has on how to best train these cadets with the limited time I have.  I have some ideas from my experience, but would like to hear more input.  (I already know these will never be Olympic runners, but it is important for them to do well) Thanks in advance! Dave

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – have had terrible problems with it both on the bike and running. Among the problems I have are erroneous readings, zero readings, readings frozen up to a minute. Has anyone else had similar problems? I have had similar problems with the Polar Edge.  I really only started using it again this fall for marathon season.  some days it works like a charm.  other days it leaps from 100 to 175 as I shift from walking to a slow shuffle.  It only comes down again when I stand perfectly still. sometimes it freezes and only updates the hr every minute or so.  I sometimes get zero readings.  and some days it works fine. I can’t even begin to guess what the problem is.  I tried it once on the bike and couldn’t get a reading.   Boy, does this sound familiar!  There seems to be absolutely no rhyme or reason for any of these problems, but I’ve experienced all of ‘em at different times (I have a ‘94 Accurex II).  It’s enough to drive you up the wall!  One frequent "bug" occurs when I’m in mid-workout and my HRM will suddenly drop to "51" —Yeah, right!  I’m lucky if my resting HR ever gets that low.  And that business of "freezing" at one reading for a minute at a time!  Arrrrghghgh!  It’s ridiculous, at a consistent pace it will appear that my HR is jumping 10 points at a time when the reading suddenly changes. Then again, as TC noted, some days it works like a charm.  But it’s REALLY annoying when it decides to get flakey in the middle of a race.   That’s what happened to me at Alcatraz in June—for large portions of the run the bloody thing insisted that my HR was "51" (it seems to love that number), so I finally gave up paying any attention to it whatsoever. Does anyone know if the newer models offer improved reliability?  I can "deal" with the occasional flakiness, but it sure would be nice to have a consistently reliable HRM. Tri-Baby                                     _                                  -    o     ‘             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/   /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

AROUND THE AREA WE TRAIN IN THERE ARE SOME DAMS  AND SOME SIGNIFICANT POWER LINES.ALL OF US  HERE  HAVE  HAD THHE SAME  PROBLEM WITH  OUR MONITORS.WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THESE LINES COUPLED WITH  A BREEZE CAN SOMEHOW BLOCK OR ALTER THE SIGNALS  BETWEEN  THE TRANSMITTER AND THE RECEIVER OF THE HRM.

Response:

I sometimes have the same problem with my Polar Protrainer. I think it may be to do with the skin contact as if it was the battery = it would not work at all, but mine does most of the time. Other strange things mine does is give an extremely high reading when I fi= rst get on the bike. It stays at around 230-240 for the first 10 minutes then goes to normal, I can guarantee that my heart rate is = not that high. (this only happens on the bike). Also when interval running my heart rate stays low until I finish the interval when = it soars up to 170. I start the next interval at 170 then going around the track it drops to 120 until I finish when it goes back up=  to 170. It is as if it takes a minute to register the heart rate which is very frustrating on short intervals. Any one have this pr= oblem ?

Yes, I have had this problem of heart rates ’sticking’ for about a minute when doing running intervals. This has been on a Vantage NV but seems OK when using a Sports Tester. I wore both watches once and got a nice graph to illustrate this.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had an Accurex II from 1993 to early this year and had very few problems. Earlier this year I invested in the new Vantage NV with the supposedly all singing and dancing coded transmission. What a loud of rubbish – I have had terrible problems with it both on the bike and running. Among the problems I have are erroneous readings, zero readings, readings frozen up to a minute. I returned several versions and now am on my 4th watch! The latest has supposedly a new chip in it but seems little better. I also have access to a Sports Tester (Vantage XL in US?) and when experimenting wore my Vantage on one hand and the Sports Tester on the other. Needless to say the Sports Tester was much better. Has anyone else had similar problems? The new Accurex has coded transmission – any reports on this? I hope Polar know what they are doing because if the new Accurex is as bad as the Vantage NV they are in for trouble…

My Vantage NV works great.  No problems, the coded transmission works just fine.  Also have an earlier model Accurex II that has worked just as well, the Vantage XL I just sold also worked really good.   I wear mine on my wrist when on the bike with no problems, even in the aero position.  Vantage NV, IMHO, is an awesome monitor. seeyatmk bradenton,florida http://www.netcom.com/~skee/tmk.html

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft Andrew: I sometimes have the same problem with my Polar Protrainer. I think it may be to do with the skin contact as if it was the battery =

it would not work at all, but mine does most of the time. Other strange things mine does is give an extremely high reading when I fi= rst get on the bike. It stays at around 230-240 for the first 10 minutes then goes to normal, I can guarantee that my heart rate is = not that high. (this only happens on the bike). Also when interval running my heart rate stays low until I finish the interval when = it soars up to 170. I start the next interval at 170 then going around the track it drops to 120 until I finish when it goes back up=  to 170. It is as if it takes a minute to register the heart rate which is very frustrating on short intervals. Any one have this pr= oblem ?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft I had an Accurex II from 1993 to early this year and had very few problems. Earlier this year I invested in the new Vantage NV with the supposedly all singing and dancing coded transmission. What a loud of rubbish – I have had terrible problems with it both on the bike and running. Among the problems I have are erroneous readings, zero readings, readings frozen up to a minute. I returned several versions and now am on my 4th watch! The latest has supposedly a new chip in it but seems little better. I also have access to a Sports Tester (Vantage XL in US?) and when experimenting wore my Vantage on one hand and the Sports Tester on the other. Needless to say the Sports Tester was much better. Has anyone else had similar problems? The new Accurex has coded transmission – any reports on this? I hope Polar know what they are doing because if the new Accurex is as bad as the Vantage NV they are in for trouble…

I have had similar problems with the Polar Edge.  I really only started using it again this fall for marathon season.  some days it works like a charm.  other days it leaps from 100 to 175 as I shift from walking to a slow shuffle.  It only comes down again when I stand perfectly still. sometimes it freezes and only updates the hr every minute or so.  I sometimes get zero readings.  and some days it works fine. I can’t even begin to guess what the problem is.  I tried it once on the bike and couldn’t get a reading.  Marathon season is now over (qualified for Boston with a 3:09 in Philly)and am trying to work out the kinks with the hrm on the bike. so, no advice, just commiseration. tc

Response:

have had terrible problems with it both on the bike and running. Among the problems I have are erroneous readings, zero readings, readings frozen up to a minute. Has anyone else had similar problems? I have had similar problems with the Polar Edge.  I really only started using it again this fall for marathon season.  some days it works like a charm.  other days it leaps from 100 to 175 as I shift from walking to a slow shuffle.  It only comes down again when I stand perfectly still. sometimes it freezes and only updates the hr every minute or so.  I sometimes get zero readings.  and some days it works fine. I can’t even begin to guess what the problem is.  I tried it once on the bike and couldn’t get a reading.  

Boy, does this sound familiar!  There seems to be absolutely no rhyme or reason for any of these problems, but I’ve experienced all of ‘em at different times (I have a ‘94 Accurex II).  It’s enough to drive you up the wall!  One frequent "bug" occurs when I’m in mid-workout and my HRM will suddenly drop to "51" —Yeah, right!  I’m lucky if my resting HR ever gets that low.  And that business of "freezing" at one reading for a minute at a time!  Arrrrghghgh!  It’s ridiculous, at a consistent pace it will appear that my HR is jumping 10 points at a time when the reading suddenly changes. Then again, as TC noted, some days it works like a charm.  But it’s REALLY annoying when it decides to get flakey in the middle of a race.  That’s what happened to me at Alcatraz in June—for large portions of the run the bloody thing insisted that my HR was "51" (it seems to love that number), so I finally gave up paying any attention to it whatsoever. Does anyone know if the newer models offer improved reliability?  I can "deal" with the occasional flakiness, but it sure would be nice to have a consistently reliable HRM. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Andrew – I have a Polar Accurex II and have experienced the exact same problem, not to mention other quirks of my HRM.  If the HRM works well at other times, I can think of two causes.  First, the watch may be too far away from the electrode strap, though I doubt this is the case.  More likely, the strap is shifting when you are in the ‘aero position and losing contact with your skin.  Try adjusting and/or tightening it.  If this doesn’t help, try to fix the length problem by mounting the watch on your handelbars. Good luck and let me know how it goes. George Flatau – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newgroups: rec.sport.triathlon I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks

Look in the voluminous owner’s manual and find out how to set the "distance", which means what area the transmitter will recieve from.  I have the Vantage XL and I know there are two settings, 70% and 100% distance.  When I use 100%, I have some difficulties receiving on the bike, but generally this is not a problem. I would also recommend you determine what the accurate range is for your monitor.  The smartest thing I did when I got my monitor was to wear it around, in normal activity, not training, to see where I could and could not move my arm to keep reception.  That knowledge of "the zone" has been invaluable.

Response:

It could be that your receiver is too far away from your transmitter. You didn’t say where you have the receiver located but if you keep it on your wrist it should read fine. If not, try it on your handlebars. They only time I have trouble with mine is when it is on the bars and I sit stright up (no hands). Rob Mike and Rob’s Most Excellent Triathlon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when  I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could  it be that the watch part is too far away or what?  thanks  andrew taft  Andrew:  I have been using the Protrainer in training and racing, and on indoor  trainers in the aero position for two years without problems. Could your chest  transmitter battery be too low to transmit all the way to your wrist? I have  been using the same transmitter belt for two years, for about a total of 800  hours and it still works fine (as of last night anyway) After saying this,  it’ll probably crap out next time I use it.  Dave Aggett

I’ve had the same problem with the Accurex, even outside at times.

Response:

I usually train with my tv on, either watching a movie or something.  I used it today and turned off the tv and voila it works.  What am I supposed to do now?  I guess I’ll have to listen to music or something. thanks for all those who replied andrew

Response:

I also encountered difficulty with my HRM on the bike, but it turned out to be interference from by bicycle computer.  The solution involved putting my HRM at the end of the bars and the computer on a mount between them. Good luck. Dr. Charlie

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading. Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

I just got a new Polar as well, and on my first use on the trainer in aero position, I had the same problem.  I tightened the strap a bit, as I suspected the contact for the electrodes wasn’t good enough, and this did the trick.  The extra tightness was a bit bothersome but I think I’m getting used to it. Tim

Response:

Too bad, you need a new TV! I used to listen to the radio, but once i found the TV I haven;t gone back.   — -rjh

Response:

I usually train with my tv on, either watching a movie or something.  I used it today and turned off the tv and voila it works.  What am I supposed to do now?  I guess I’ll have to listen to music or something. thanks for all those who replied andrew

You might try moving further away or off to the side of the screen. — Tod Meinke All comments and opinions expressed are those of my employer and not my own.  Please sue them and leave me out of it.

Response:

 On Tue 3Dec 1996 08:36:02 -0500, George Flatau – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andrew – I have a Polar Accurex II and have experienced the exact same problem, not to mention other quirks of my HRM.  If the HRM works well at other times, I can think of two causes.  First, the watch may be too far away from the electrode strap, though I doubt this is the case.  More likely, the strap is shifting when you are in the ‘aero position and losing contact with your skin.  Try adjusting and/or tightening it.  If this doesn’t help, try to fix the length problem by mounting the watch on your handelbars. Good luck and let me know how it goes. George Flatau Newgroups: rec.sport.triathlon I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

Andrew,         I have a polar accurex II monitor.  I also had trouble getting a consistent reading in the aero position.  Or during the first part of a run in the cold.  I solved this problem two ways.  First, I find that I get a better reading if the belt is a full inch below the pectoral line (lower than many users).  Second, I use a small amount of water soluable gel on the contact points.  I use ultrasound gel left over from a hospital stay.  I’ve also used KY-Jelly.  Both work well.  Good Luck,         Scott

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

I’ve got a Protrainer too, and I found the same problem, so I did a bit of experimentation. The signal given out by the transmitter is very weak (well, you want the batteries to last, don’t you?). This is one of the reasons that the receiver is so easily swamped by interference from exercise machines etc. The wrist unit only really works for me out to about 50-60cm. If the wrist unit is near to its limit, it will occasionally miss a beat or two, but the display remains up, and if it picks up a signal within a few more beats it will continue. However, moving it just a cm or two further away and it will quickly display zero. The limit is affected by orientation and external interference. On my bike, it works fine on the drops or sitting up, but originally it did not work when I went down on to my aerobars. Then this summer I messed about with my bike set up, lowering the bars. After a movement of just a couple of cm the HRM works fine all the time now. Experiment, perhaps strap the wrist unit to the handlebars. Joel — Royal Observatory Edinburgh     Web  : http://www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh                       Phone: +44 (0)131 668 8100 EH9 3HJ                         Fax  : +44 (0)131 668 1130 UK

Response:

So you are going to be the first triathlete that needs to adjust his position on the bike to his HRM…?!!! Weird isn’t it…  :-) Francois — *** Any opinion expressed above is strictly my own. *** Disclaimer: I said this. My company didn’t.

Response:

I find that most problems I experience with my monitor outside of failing batteries are related to poor contact with the chest transmitter. I have always used the tried and true "spit" conducting fluid, but even this doesn’t always work too well in cold weather. Is there any type of commercial "EKG" contact enhancing product (low cost) that will increase the conductivity in this area? Thanks, Bill

Response:

I find that most problems I experience with my monitor outside of failing batteries are related to poor contact with the chest transmitter. I have always used the tried and true "spit" conducting fluid, but even this doesn’t always work too well in cold weather. Is there any type of commercial "EKG" contact enhancing product (low cost) that will increase the conductivity in this area? Thanks, Bill

1) Stop training dehydrated 2) Train harder and sweat more 3) Shave that hairy torso!!     ! Gregg ("Dr. T")

Response:

I used to have that problem. Then I realized I had the same problem when taking my pulse in the morning from my bed with my Polar HRM on my night table. I learned that my HRM will only work if it is angled the right way. On my bike, it will not work when it is on my arm, but works perfectly when I mount it on my handle bars.(there is an added bonous in that you can see your heart rate all the time when it is there) I have noticed a few other people with the same problem and the handle bar thing worked for them too. You may need to put something around your handle bars to make them as wide as your wrist. polar makes a product for this but I just use a sock. WARNING When your heart rate monitor is on your handle bars on a sunny day it is in direct sunlight. The first sunny ride I did with my HRM there cooked the cristal. I don’t know why bike computers don’t have a problem with sunlight, but HRM deteriorate drastically in one summer ride? I just had my cristal replaced(warrenty) but will use some sort of covering flap next summer. Let me know if that help or if you have any ideas to keep it in the shade. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

I had an Accurex II from 1993 to early this year and had very few problems. Earlier this year I invested in the new Vantage NV with the supposedly all singing and dancing coded transmission. What a loud of rubbish – I have had terrible problems with it both on the bike and running. Among the problems I have are erroneous readings, zero readings, readings frozen up to a minute. I returned several versions and now am on my 4th watch! The latest has supposedly a new chip in it but seems little better. I also have access to a Sports Tester (Vantage XL in US?) and when experimenting wore my Vantage on one hand and the Sports Tester on the other. Needless to say the Sports Tester was much better. Has anyone else had similar problems? The new Accurex has coded transmission – any reports on this? I hope Polar know what they are doing because if the new Accurex is as bad as the Vantage NV they are in for trouble…

Response:

I find that most problems I experience with my monitor outside of failing batteries are related to poor contact with the chest transmitter. I have always used the tried and true "spit" conducting fluid, but even this doesn’t always work too well in cold weather. Is there any type of commercial "EKG" contact enhancing product (low cost) that will increase the conductivity in this area? Thanks, Bill

You can buy electrodes that stick to the chest from a medical supply store.  I am not sure of the cost.  However, beware, they stick real good and are often worse than any Band Aid to pull off.

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

Response:

I just got a new hrm Polar Protrainer.  It works fine when I run but when I am on my trainer and down on the aerobars I cannot get a reading.  Could it be that the watch part is too far away or what? thanks andrew taft

Andrew: I have been using the Protrainer in training and racing, and on indoor trainers in the aero position for two years without problems. Could your chest transmitter battery be too low to transmit all the way to your wrist? I have been using the same transmitter belt for two years, for about a total of 800 hours and it still works fine (as of last night anyway) After saying this, it’ll probably crap out next time I use it. Dave Aggett

Response:

Question:

I’ve found that you have to get up early and train.  Very early.  A sleeping family is much more accepting of your training habits.  Also, the Baby Jogger is a lifesaver; my little one loves it! Mike B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congradulations on the birth of your child. What a wonderful day for you! It would be great for you to post how a new dad trains and spends time with his new family member. I don’t have any children and I’ve always wondered how in the world people do it. Happy Happy Joy Joy Kristen I have a one year old, and i haven’t got a clue as to how to train and spend time with my family. I dont train nearly as much as i used to , but suprisingly I haven’t done much worse than before, you can only go so slow

Response:

A sleeping family is much more accepting of your training habits.

I second that.  It is also worth mentioning, that one needs to remember that your significant – other’s schedule is changing as well.  However, making your events (races) more of a "family – thing" can be tons of fun and even take some of the pre-race jitters out of a race. Modifying your schedule simply to accomodate your own workouts won’t always "wash".  You’ll also have to account for the time spent doing things that your spouse used to have time to do; it’s only fair. Last, but not least, don’t underestimate the amount of stress involved in watching after the child(ren).  Mom’s "sanity-break" may be more important than your bike ride, from time to time. P.S. – - Don’t forget to "baby-proff the mag-trainer; my 15 month old just LOVES my bike.

Response:

The whole thing, for me, boils down to time management and flexibility.  I try to time my workouts so that:  mom and the kids are a sleep, while I am at work–AM and PM, and when the kids are down for their afternoon nap. My work schedule is fairly flexible so that I can take an extended lunch to train then make that time up at the end of the day.  Over all I can get about  2 1/2 hours of training time in a day. Race days are now family outings.  Tri-spouce and the kids usually enjoy coming to races with me.  After the race is over we go out for a nice brunch, and I try to stop by a local park for the kids to play at.  If Tri-spouce sees something she wants to do, I make sure we hit that stop prior to heading home for the day.  Once we get home and I have the truck unpacked and my race gear cleaned, I’ll fire up the grill.  All in all it makes for an overall enjoyable day. The key is this; be flexible, manage your time to its fullest, and be prepared to let Tri-spouce have their time too.                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / Tri-On The only legal draft should come from hops and barley. WEB (Robert Webster) Waukegan, IL

Response:

The whole thing, for me, boils down to time management and flexibility.

I can’t agree more.  Most of us need to remember that Triathlons and training are to be for fun and fitness.  Only the top elite athletes need to be spending mega-training time.  Our families need to take priority above our sport.   This is my first year as a triathlete and I have had a ball.  I have been impressed by number of families that come to the events.  My wife and I have a daughter age 3 and an 8 month old boy and Triathlon races have become family weekends for us.   Of the 4 races this season, I have gone solo only once.  As motivated individuals and athletes we need to set examples in our communities that we not only take our sport serious but also our families. Tim Hutchison, MD

Response:

(Chaoskris) writes: Congradulations on the birth of your child. What a wonderful day for you! It would be great for you to post how a new dad trains and spends time with his new family member. I don’t have any children and I’ve always wondered how in the world people do it. Happy Happy Joy Joy Kristen

I just completed my second season as a Dad (my son is now 20 months old) and I have managed to find time to train and still do my equal share in raising him.  I run or bike (stationary bike) at lunch or I bike to work. On weekends I run with a baby jogger or put my son on the back of my bike and go for rides.  I swim in the evenings after my son has gone to bed (7:30 -8:00).  Races do impact my family, but they seemed to enjoy them in good spirits.  I can’t imagine being able to squeeze in the swimming as a single parent without child care. This weekend I’ll be running an 8K race pushing my son in the jog stroller. It can be done! Tucker Newberry

Response:

Fellow Triathletes,    In less time than it takes me to run a marathon, tri-spouce gave birth to a beautiful 7 pound 15.5 ounce baby girl.  Both Tri-spouce and Baby are home doing great.  Everyone said that the second child would take less time than the first, but we never figured that it would take less than 2 hours and 45 minutes from first labor sign to delivery.                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / Tri-On The only legal draft should come from hops and barley. WEB (Robert Webster) Waukegan, IL

Response:

Congradulations on the birth of your child. What a wonderful day for you! It would be great for you to post how a new dad trains and spends time with his new family member. I don’t have any children and I’ve always wondered how in the world people do it. Happy Happy Joy Joy Kristen

Response:

Congradulations on the birth of your child. What a wonderful day for you! It would be great for you to post how a new dad trains and spends time with his new family member. I don’t have any children and I’ve always wondered how in the world people do it. Happy Happy Joy Joy Kristen

I have a one year old, and i haven’t got a clue as to how to train and spend time with my family. I dont train nearly as much as i used to , but suprisingly I haven’t done much worse than before, you can only go so slow

Response:

Congradulations on the birth of your child. What a wonderful day for you! It would be great for you to post how a new dad trains and spends time with his new family member. I don’t have any children and I’ve always wondered how in the world people do it. Happy Happy Joy Joy

I get up at 4 AM to run, but I’m a morning person and have to be to work by ~6:30.  BTW, is it feasible to bike in the dark?  I’m always nervous about being out on a bike at that hour, when I can’t see where I’m going. Scott Hoffman

Response:

Fellow Triathletes,   In less time than it takes me to run a marathon, tri-spouce gave birth to a beautiful 7 pound 15.5 ounce baby girl.  Both Tri-spouce and Baby are home doing great.  Everyone said that the second child would take less time than the first, but we never figured that it would take less than 2 hours and 45 minutes from first labor sign to delivery.

Congratulations, proud papa. My "baby" just started college this year. <sigh As I recall, his entrance into the world was a PR, too. I was in the waiting room when they rushed in and said "Hurry, or you’re gonna miss it!" (I was in the delivery room for both of ours.) Just barely made it. TriBop WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities   http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fellow Triathletes,    In less time than it takes me to run a marathon, tri-spouce gave birth to a beautiful 7 pound 15.5 ounce baby girl.  Both Tri-spouce and Baby are home doing great.  Everyone said that the second child would take less time than the first, but we never figured that it would take less than 2 hours and 45 minutes from first labor sign to delivery.                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / Tri-On The only legal draft should come from hops and barley. WEB (Robert Webster) Waukegan, IL

Congratulations. Keep an eye on that girl, she’s going to be fast through the transitions. Jim Mewkill

Response:

Question:

       BOTH PLACES, THILLY.

Ooooh .. that felt good. How?  Mavic ZAP. Yes, they may be techno geeky stuff, but the reality is:

Don’t you come from Melbourne Paul?  Doesn’t it rain all the time in Melbourne?  Isn’t it true that Mavic zap can be renamed as"mavic crap" when it rains and water gets in and stuffs everything so you have to finish the ride in your 13? Grant Queeensland, Australia

Response:

[hack] I had a tete-a-tete with someone on the newsgroup [snip] I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.

I’d say you can put’em wherever you want…. Rozanne may even be willing to help you insert them! I mean INSTALL them.  :) D Emerging Technology Services    - innovative mechanical product development    - software application development/management

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But surely there are only two choices: STI or bar-end shifters on your areo bars. Ok, STI is the way to go if your cycling in traffic, want to win bunch sprints, or be King of the mountain. AHA!!!  Richard, I do believe you have scored a bullseye (so to speak!)…  yes, indeed… it doth appear that the Good Prince (that would be the Git in question) is hard at work making the ascension to the King of the Mountain throne!  But for us mere mortals who actually downshift to go up said Mountain, bar-ends on the aero’s make more sense. But why not STI instead of bar-ends for the Git?  The enigma continues…. Roxanne

If we are putting the shifters on the C2s, why not just put the brakes up there too! TriRef

Response:

While I’m talking about gripshift, I have seen something called a barrel worm(or something worm, or worm something) in the mail order catalogs that’s supposed to go with the gripshift system but they don’t say what it’s for.  Is this supposed to be a retrofit to fix the above problems?

Oh my, I hope the marketing team from the company that makes the  **** Bassworm **** isn’t reading that.  At least you got the worm part. The ‘worm is designed to overcome the wimpy (I believe that’s "whimpy" for you yurrupeans) light action rear derailleur springs in the newer Shimano units (‘95 and up).  This spring pulls against the shifter, and moves the RD toward the smaller cogs.  Once your cables are slightly worn, you can end up with more drag in the cable housing than your poor little Shimano spring can overcome.  End result = slow and sloppy shifts into the small cogs.  The Bassworm overcomes this problem by adding a bit of pre-tension to the rear end of the cable, which allows the wimpy spring to act like a virile and manly spring (hey, it’s a known fact that springs are male).   Another alternative (which I install on all the MTBs I build) is a Powerspring, which just fixes the design problem at its source. Woof!

Easy for you to say.   Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles

Response:

ton’s of stuff mercilessly hacked out and thrown away! If we are putting the shifters on the C2s, why not just put the brakes up there too! TriRef

On a rare, very rare, serious note, when braking, the weight shifts to the front wheel, being in the aero postion and hard braking is something I wouldn’t want to practice. I have an allergy to road rash. In a light braking situation I simply sit up and let the wind do something useful for a change. Even if an "endo" isn’t the result, the extra weight over the front wheel is gonna cause instability. I’d much rather have my hands on the bullhorns and fingers on the brakes. Braking occurs almost exclusively before corners (if you’re braking on the straights, you’re never gonna reach the podium) so being on the bullhorns ready to have a fast and stable turn ready to pull hard while exiting the corner is my plan of attack. I wouldn’t suggest brakes on the aerobars for anyone other than the Git. TriDork

Response:

  Don’t you come from Melbourne Paul?  Doesn’t it rain all the time in   Melbourne?  Isn’t it true that Mavic zap can be renamed as"mavic crap"   when it rains and water gets in and stuffs everything so you have to   finish the ride in your 13? Now hold on there sonny … them’s fightin’ words .. See my other post about the ZAP, I’ve never had trouble in Melbourne with them and yes – Melbourne is atrocious right now (on its way to a record wet). With over two years of solid use (it’s my training AND racing bike) I’d never had to come home on either extreme. For those who care to remember the one and only Sorrento triathlon two seasons back, yes I swam that on the bike quite successfully.  My Cateye computer did the deadfish roll though and so did the on line event computer system. —   Woof!

Response:

  If Mavic could get its Zap shifters to work these questions would end.   You could have shift buttons on the aero and bull horn bars! I’ve received some queries about ZAPs, so I’ll try to cover all bases with one post. First, for those who don’t know – they’re an electronic rear gear changing system.  The user end is a pair of two position rocker switches (with a spring return to centre), much like F1 racers (drive one every other weekend) and some Porsches (I try to run over them with my F1) have on their steering wheels.  When you want to go up a gear, you depress (or click?) one side of the switch. When you want to down, you depress the other.  The implementation end –     A "microprocessor" (what’s wrong with a standard resistor table and     other passive components?) which is embedded in your bar end (replaces     the cork wrap plug thingy).     The "microprocessor" drives a solenoid (?) on the rear derailleur which     effects a gear change. All in all – VERY smooth.  If you keep the rocker switch held down, it will traverse through the gears, but I hardly (if ever) use that feature.  It purportedly changes gears in 0.1 sec – I’ve never timed it, but it’s definitely FAST and sure. The standard setup is designed so that you place one switch under one brake hood (where you’d have your fingers if you were struggling up a hill) and the other almost where the bar meets the stem (where you’d rest your hands if you were drafting in a peloton in a non aerobar race).  They were obviously designed with roadies in mind as the neither lead (switch) will reach any (aero) bar end.  A home brew extension solved this problem. OK, problems.  Yes, I’m aware that Mavic stopped producing them until they solved their ‘problem’.  That’s OK for them, but I bought the system well over two years ago when they first came out.  I previously had Ultegra STI’s (the system which integrates with the brake levers), and used to get really annoyed when I wanted to change gears while aero.  Changing gears when aero became a disincentive, not good from my point of view (I’m a fastish spinner). What problems have _I_ had?  Over the two years, I’ve had to replace the front rocker switch for two different reasons:     (1) Once when I had a flat and decided to get off the main road before         dismounting.  This meant doing a left at the next intersection.         The turn caused the tyre to roll off the wheel, and I consequently         ‘rolled’ off the bike (I crashed).  One of the crash impact points was         the front (tip) of the aerobar, where sits one rocker switch.  Ouch.         It was replaced – free, within a week.     (2) Halfway through a triathlon this year.  My death grip on the aerobars         stressed the cabling under the cork wrap to the point of failure (I         broke the leads).  Thankfully, it only took be about two minutes of         swearing before I realised the other set (under the hood) still worked.         I had the switch replaced – free, even though I can still use the         original (just a bit old soldering and heat shrink needed). Apart from that – no problems.  OK, I don’t go to the snow covered bronchial heights reached by the TdF gentlemen (which is where I think problems arose), but I haven’t (yet) even had a flat battery.  This is one thing I dread, as it does stick to one gear when the electronics _do_ play up.  It also had a problem (initially) of zipping to an extreme gear (biggest) upon selection and then screaming back to the smallest with the next.  I think that was due to finger trouble during installation (not me!!). To summarise, I’d say the ZAP style of system _is_ the future, and I’m not surprised that Mavic (hasn’t LOOK taken them over?) is taking their time over it.  They have a gold mine, just as Shimano had one (and still do) when they came out with their nifty systems.  Once out though, there will be no contest, as, IMHO, they ARE the best (the concept, ie).  Why else would Porsches and F1 racers have them? —   Woof!

Response:

But surely there are only two choices: STI or bar-end shifters on your areo bars. Ok, STI is the way to go if your cycling in traffic, want to win bunch sprints, or be King of the mountain.

AHA!!!  Richard, I do believe you have scored a bullseye (so to speak!)…  yes, indeed… it doth appear that the Good Prince (that would be the Git in question) is hard at work making the ascension to the King of the Mountain throne!  But for us mere mortals who actually downshift to go up said Mountain, bar-ends on the aero’s make more sense.   But why not STI instead of bar-ends for the Git?  The enigma continues…. Roxanne  

Response:

Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn,writes: I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.  There, I’ve said it… Myles, Myles, Myles, you troublemaker you! The idea of bar end shifters is to keep you in the aero position.

stuff snipped Roxanne is right! (Of course she is, since we both have the same new bike and new setup, and everyone knows that people who have just bought a new bike are always dead certain they have the perfect item.)

Well it’s unanamous then! QR’s  at 20 paces it is then. Gripshift on the C2’s and brakes on the bullhorns, just like God intended. Living in gods country, I assumed the Clown Prince (the Git) would have already realized this. I just got mine installed fitted and adjusted last night and am rearing to test the setup tonight. It sure felt good in the basement when I tried it last night. Brian Sullivan

TriDork

Response:

   But surely there are only two choices: STI or bar-end shifters on your    areo bars. Ok, STI is the way to go if your cycling in traffic, want to    win bunch sprints, or be King of the mountain.  (snip)    But why not STI instead of bar-ends for the Git?  The enigma continues….    Roxanne   These two choices are not exclusive – you can get bar-ends that are indexed.  My commuter/rain bike has indexed shifter on bullhorn bars which work great.  Why not use brake lever STI? because it is more common to mount the brake levers under the bars, facing forward. Why do I use bullhorn bars on a bike without aerobars, now that I think about it I’m not sure, to avoid getting to comfortable? If Mavic could get its Zap shifters to work these questions would end. You could have shift buttons on the aero and bull horn bars!

Response:

As for the rear shifter this should be mounted on the aerobars in my opinion because you can remain aerodynamic whilst making smaller shifts.

In a recent conversation with a Tri-geek I was arguing that I rarely make any kind of shifts whilst on the aero-bars, and I make lots whilst on the bulls.  I may occasionally make some whilst aero, but it’s only about 4 inches to reach the shifter, and I can do it without altering my body position, or removing my elbow from the elbow pad.  I reckon this is better than the effort requried to change on the aeros whilst climbing, specially when you’re invariably trying to haul on the bars – quite hard if you have your hand off them to reach the aero-bars. Mind you, I AM a very weird person with an even weirder riding style/position, so don’t listen to a word I say…. Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn, Dept of Preventive and Social Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, P O Box 913, DUNEDIN, AOTEAROA (NEW ZEALAND). e-mail:

Response:

  I think you’ve mixed up "big ears" and his trademark "woof" with   TriGit.  Both are antipodeans. Paul (big ears) goes woof and the   Git is a dog, so it’s understandable how you got it confused.   As for me? TriDork’s bark is worse than his bite. (fellow   antipodean too, just to confuse things further). Hmm .. No wonder my Ears are red.  I was being besmulched.  Oh well, now that I’ve picked up on this thread, I might as well settle this business about where you stick your shifters.         BOTH PLACES, THILLY. Ooooh .. that felt good. How?  Mavic ZAP. Yes, they may be techno geeky stuff, but the reality is:     You need to change gears in the aero AND non-aero position. I’ve had numerous comments from people about how smooth I am in changing gears – I ALWAYS appear to be in the right gear (except when I need to change rings – Geez I hate changing rings!!).  People seem to think I’ve been a roadie for years. Then my boosted ego takes a well deserved beating.  They find out that I’m using the ZAP system.  I make no bones about it.  They’re wonderful:     If I’m in the aero position – I WANT TO STAY THERE.     If I’m cranking up a hill, the last thing I want to do is risk a stupid     crash (or any semblance of rhythm) by stretching out to the aerobar tips. Arguments about _which_ position is best are superfluous, you need them in both places.  It’s amazing how fine gear tweaking when you’re aero can give you a break on others.  The same is the case when climbing. Take it from someone who’s only been seriously pedalling for three years. I only have one real bike (OK, and an MTB) – which is my training and racing vehicle. —   Woof! ™

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I think you’ve mixed up "big ears" and his trademark "woof" with   TriGit.  Both are antipodeans. Paul (big ears) goes woof and the   Git is a dog, so it’s understandable how you got it confused.   As for me? TriDork’s bark is worse than his bite. (fellow   antipodean too, just to confuse things further). Hmm .. No wonder my Ears are red.  I was being besmulched.  Oh well, now that I’ve picked up on this thread, I might as well settle this business about where you stick your shifters.         BOTH PLACES, THILLY. Ooooh .. that felt good. How?  Mavic ZAP.

. . .   Woof! ™

My humblest and sincerest apologies to Tri-Git, Tritanium Man and TriDork.  I’ve studied the posts, the sigs, the handles and what-not and I think I’ve finally got it straight:  you’re all insane! ;] If I had realized that W__f! was trademarked, officially or unofficially, I certainly would have obtained permission, and even paid royalties before barking out of turn.  This simply out of respect for Paul.  However, on the flip side, a 1k/40k/10k will forever be known, and refered to, by me as an Olympic distance triathlon. As for Paul’s ZAPs, I thought Mavic stopped production of them because of a slough of reliability problems?  I thought they sounded like the best thing since index shifting and was slobbering and salivating about getting some until I read lots of bad press about them.  Please explain. —    Stacy J. Hills    Code 8222, Bldg 116                  Phone: (401) 841-4504    Naval Undersea Warfare Center        FAX:   (401) 841-2223    Newport, RI 02841                    DSN:   948-4504

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OK, so in a psot asking if anyone had a set of bar-end shifters for sale, I expounded the virtues of having said bar-end shifters (hencewith known as BES) on the ends of one’s BULL-HORNS (anyone wincing?).  The whole point of the post was to obtain a set of BES, but I had a tete-a-tete with someone on the newsgroup (who shall remain nameless, called Roxanne) who felt quite strongly (in much the same way as she smells ) that the place for the wee wangery things was on the end of her aero-bars – presumably the bar-end shifters should go there too. After some heated debate, and some juvenile quibbling over semantics, a few literary left-hooks and a super-whammy-styled in-your-face upper-cut, we came to no conclusion cos we started talking about something else which was actually intersting. ANYWAY…she pointed out that there would unlikely be further debate on RST on this point, cos the subject (ie WTB) was not one everyone would read.  Mebbe this one isn’t either.  Who knows? I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.  There, I’ve said it… Anyone care to share their prejudices in this respect? Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn, Dept of Preventive and Social Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, P O Box 913, DUNEDIN, AOTEAROA (NEW ZEALAND). e-mail:

Response:

I reckon that you could put your bar end shifter for your front shifter on the end of your "bull horn" bars.  How often do you need to shift when in or out of your big ring whilst in the aero position?  Often you want to make this shift when cresting a hill – it would be easier to do this with the shifter on the end of a bull horn?   As for the rear shifter this should be mounted on the aerobars in my opinion because you can remain aerodynamic whilst making smaller shifts. Grant Schofield QLD, Australia

Response:

Myles Not to add more confusion to this discussion, but i am presently installing a  set of syntace bullhorns and clip on aero bars to my bike, and as analternative i will be using mt bike above bar thumb shifters and mounting them on the aerobars. These are much cheaper then the bar end alternative, and they also have the advantage of being able to place them anywhere on the bars. TriRef

Response:

I reckon that you could put your bar end shifter for your front shifter on the end of your "bull horn" bars.  How often do you need to shift when in or out of your big ring whilst in the aero position?  Often you want to make this shift when cresting a hill – it would be easier to do this with the shifter on the end of a bull horn?   As for the rear shifter this should be mounted on the aerobars in my opinion because you can remain aerodynamic whilst making smaller shifts. Grant Schofield QLD, Australia

I have seen this setup on Ray Browning’s bike.  He has the rear shifter on the aero bars and the front shifter on the down tube. This makes more sense than putting it on the end of a bullhorn. Regards, Carlos Torres de Navarra

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so in a psot asking if anyone had a set of bar-end shifters for sale, I expounded the virtues of having said bar-end shifters (hencewith known as BES) on the ends of one’s BULL-HORNS (anyone wincing?).  The whole point of the post was to obtain a set of BES, but I had a tete-a-tete with someone on the newsgroup (who shall remain nameless, called Roxanne) who felt quite strongly (in much the same way as she smells ) that the place for the wee wangery things was on the end of her aero-bars – presumably the bar-end shifters should go there too. After some heated debate, and some juvenile quibbling over semantics, a few literary left-hooks and a super-whammy-styled in-your-face upper-cut, we came to no conclusion cos we started talking about something else which was actually intersting. ANYWAY…she pointed out that there would unlikely be further debate on RST on this point, cos the subject (ie WTB) was not one everyone would read.  Mebbe this one isn’t either.  Who knows? I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.  There, I’ve said it… Anyone care to share their prejudices in this respect? Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn, Dept of Preventive and Social Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, P O Box 913, DUNEDIN, AOTEAROA (NEW ZEALAND). e-mail:

Wait a minute!!!  What happened to the Woof!  Wasn’t there supposed to be a big Woof! in there somewhere.  Maybe I’ve got Tri-Git mixed up with someone else which wouldn’t surprise me since everyone seems to be jumping on this Tri-something handle bandwagon. Seriously, my new bike has GripShift on the ends of my Profile AirStrykes while my old bike had bar-end shifters at the end of my one piece aerobar. I like the airStryke/bullhorn combo much better than the one-piece, but I like the Gripshifts less than the barend shifters.  This is mainly because of the long throw on the the gripshift which I’ve been told has been fixed in subsequent models(really helps me, doesn’t it).  With all the work it takes me to shift with the gripshift, I can’t imagine having barends on the bullhorns would upset thing anymore than they already are. While I’m talking about gripshift, I have seen something called a barrel worm(or something worm, or worm something) in the mail order catalogs that’s supposed to go with the gripshift system but they don’t say what it’s for.  Is this supposed to be a retrofit to fix the above problems? Woof! —    Stacy J. Hills    Code 8222, Bldg 116                  Phone: (401) 841-4504    Naval Undersea Warfare Center        FAX:   (401) 841-2223    Newport, RI 02841                    DSN:   948-4504

Response:

I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.  Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn, Wait a minute!!!  What happened to the Woof!  Wasn’t there supposed to be a big Woof! in there somewhere.  Maybe I’ve got Tri-Git mixed up with someone else which wouldn’t surprise me since everyone seems to be jumping on this Tri-something handle bandwagon. Woof!   Stacy J. Hills

I think you’ve mixed up "big ears" and his trademark "woof" with TriGit.  Both are antipodeans. Paul (big ears) goes woof and the Git is a dog, so it’s understandable how you got it confused. As for me? TriDork’s bark is worse than his bite. (fellow antipodean too, just to confuse things further). TriDork p.s.   GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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While I’m talking about gripshift, I have seen something called a barrel worm(or something worm, or worm something) in the mail order catalogs that’s supposed to go with the gripshift system but they don’t say what it’s for.  Is this supposed to be a retrofit to fix the above problems? Woof!    Stacy J. Hills

Gripshift makes this contraption called a Bass Worm that is fitted onto the rear cable guide to allow for smoother shifting.   I was experiencing sloppy shifting with my bar ends, and the Bass Worm attachment smoothed it out completely.  The device also helps prolong the life of the cable because it encases it in some kind of rubber tubing.  Sorry for the lack of a clear description, but this thing isn’t that easy to describe.  It really does not look like much but it works. Regards, Carlos Torres de Navarra Coral Gables, Florida

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While I’m talking about gripshift, I have seen something called a barrel worm(or something worm, or worm something) in the mail order catalogs that’s supposed to go with the gripshift system but they don’t say what it’s for.  Is this supposed to be a retrofit to fix the above problems? Woof! —

   Bassworm.    It’s a spring device that fits  the derailleur cable housing & the chainstay. Seems intended for an unfamiliar mtn bike problem, but I don’t think it makes any change in the amount of throw/rotation of the shift knob required to make a shift.    You’re thinking of Paul (Cheers-Big-Ears [Myles taught me that], itu-suspecting, hair-trigger, don’t-make-me-get-up, bite-the-hand-that-doesn’t-feed-ME, don’t-even-think-about-evading-the-issue, Tritanium Man, zero-tolerance-for-bullshit) Menon.    Spoink! [Sound of monitor turning off] Kurian Davis

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I have Grip Shifters on the end of my aerobars.  They are placed so that they are in my hands while I’m in the aero position.  Since I try to stay aero as much as possible, even when climbing all but the most severe hills, the shifters are exactly where I need them.  However, shifting is a problem when I’m riding in the drops- I tend to weave all over the road as I STRRRRETCH to shift.

That’s what I wanted to avoid, specially when I tend to only shift when I’m on the horns – never really WANT to on the aeros….which brings me to an interesting convo I had with another Tri geek, to the extent that I have a completely different riding style to everyone else – I tend to get out of the saddle and hammer up medium hills in the same gear I was in on the flat.  I think the way I have my bike set up allows me to do that without rooting my legs for the run.  Who knows. The only bullhorns that I have are hanging on my wall and actually came from a bull.  I don’t think that putting bar end shifters on them would do me any good unless I could find a stem large enough to mount them on my bike.

I have a spare skull you could use….then all you’d need is footpegs… Cameron

Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn, Dept of Preventive and Social Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, P O Box 913, DUNEDIN, AOTEAROA (NEW ZEALAND). e-mail:

Response:

I have Grip Shifters on the end of my aerobars.  They are placed so that they are in my hands while I’m in the aero position.  Since I try to stay aero as much as possible, even when climbing all but the most severe hills, the shifters are exactly where I need them.  However, shifting is a problem when I’m riding in the drops- I tend to weave all over the road as I STRRRRETCH to shift. The only bullhorns that I have are hanging on my wall and actually came from a bull.  I don’t think that putting bar end shifters on them would do me any good unless I could find a stem large enough to mount them on my bike. Cameron

Response:

Tri-Git, aka Myles Cockburn,writes: I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.  There, I’ve

said it… Myles, Myles, Myles, you troublemaker you! The idea of bar end shifters is to keep you in the aero position. If you want to shift from the bull horns, use STI. Much more effective. When you on your bullhorns, which should be rarely, you can easily reach up to the BES on the aero bars and make a change. Roxanne is right! (Of course she is, since we both have the same new bike and new setup, and everyone knows that people who have just bought a new bike are always dead certain they have the perfect item.) Brian Sullivan

Response:

someone on the newsgroup (who shall remain nameless, called Roxanne) who felt quite strongly that the place for the wee wangery things was on the end of her aero-bars – pres=

umably the bar-end shifters should go there too. ANYWAY… I WANT TO PUT MY BES ON THE END OF MY BULL-HORNS.  Nyah.  There, I’ve said it… Anyone care to share their prejudices in this respect?

Well, the roadies I cycle with almost dis-owned me when I put bar end shifters on the ends of my aero bars. But why the hell would you want to put them on the end of you "bull-horns", (which is I assume US-talk for handlebars. Bull horns is a really confusing term, because if your talking say OX,Bision,Sheep horns, then sure, they look like handlebars. But antelope,deer,elk,bull horns look more like aero bars to me.) But surely there are only two choices: STI or bar-end shifters on your areo bars. Ok, STI is the way to go if your cycling in traffic, want to win bunch sprints, or be King of the mountain. But put them on the end of your areo bars, then when your racing, down on the bars, the wee wangery things are right in your hands – hey presto!, tri-version of STI! How often do you brake in a 1/2 IM? Twice? How often do you change gears? Heaps. So put the levers where your hands are. Richard no handle, no sig….

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Question:

: OK rec sport triathlon readers, here is a little fun  in the Sierra’s, : from an article I write for my local paper. Saw the Motorola team training : in this area this week, so they too must know where the best riding is!!! : Enjoy. : Brad At last count there are four FORMER Motorola team riders living in the Sacramento area, not to mention many Motorola jersey owners from the above mentioned rider’s garage sales.  However, the Motorola team has been in Europe since the end of January and their US training camp was in Texas. The ride you mention is an excellent one though. Kevin Metcalfe Davis, CA

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OK rec sport triathlon readers, here is a little fun  in the Sierra’s, from an article I write for my local paper. Saw the Motorola team training in this area this week, so they too must know where the best riding is!!! Enjoy. Brad Kearns Column like I see ‘em  Auburn Sentinel#The Death Ride?The title of this article sounds ominous, but I am actually going to describe and take you through one of the most beautiful and challenging bike rides anywhere in the world, beginning right here in Auburn and proclaimed by this "wrider" (HA HA)  "The Death Ride".My first completion of the Death Ride loop was in June of 1990, when I was just an innocent visitor to the area and still lived in Los Angeles. My wife Tracy and I came to visit her parents, who had recently moved from Southern California to Cool. It was one of six visits over the course of that year, the cumulative effect of which spurred us to make a move of our own out of the concrete jungle of Los Angeles and up to Cool by November of 1990. Of course my bike made the trip with us, and feeling restless one Saturday morning, I grabbed a triple A map out of the drawer and plotted out a bike course to explore the surrounding area. Isn’t it funny how you can read a onedimensional map of an area you have never been to and make crazy assumptions about roads being up or downhill with no factual basis? I know when I see a road on a map heading South, I assume(0*0*0*it is downhill for some reason. Maybe derived from common ?expressions like, "We drove down to LA from Sacramento." Once I headed out on the bike, I soon realized that I was in for more than I and my flat map had bargained for  a total of 12,000 feet of climbing, according to my Avocet Altimeter bike computer at days end. hh#The ride begins heading out of Auburn to Foresthill on Foresthill Road. The highlight is crossing over the towering Foresthill bridge, affording an incredible view of the confluence of the North and Middle Forks of the American River 700 plus feet below. The lowlight is realizing on your first trip up to Foresthill that although the map says the town is 2000 feet higher than Auburn, you have to climb much more than that because of all the ups and downs. There is nothing more discouraging to a cyclist than climbing up a steep hill, only to descend back down before resuming climbing. Multiply that 10 times and you know what the first 20 miles of the Death Ride are like. I know many readers will never even attempt something as daunting as the Death Ride, but take notice next time your aredriving how unaware we are of the terrain when we don’t have to use our own power to negotiate it. Countless times I have taken preview drives over a bike course before a triathlon and thought, "piece of cake, no significant hills on the course". Completing the same course the next day on bicycle is always a rude awakening as my quads muscles vehemently disagree with the statement, "no significant hills".Reaching Foresthill I take the complete with little tables on the patio to sit down and have lunch with a magnificent view of the Sierra’s. Little did I know that this was the last available water stop for the next 3 and a half hours, quite a long time to go without while cycling in June. I had never experienced this phenomenon training in Los Angeles, because even on the most remote rides imaginable civilization is no more than an hour or two apart. Consulting my trusty map I saw the name of a town on the route ahead called "Uncle Tom’s cabin"  no problem, I’ll just stop at their supermarket and refuel. Well, maybe that was possible in the Gold Rush days, but these days there ain’t nothing there but a few old cabins, probably belonging to Uncle Tom. Stay tuned next week as we head into the high Sierra’s and continue on the Death Ride loop….(0*0*0*Last week’s column on the Death Ride left off with a lunch break at the Foresthill Market in Foresthill. From Foresthill, the ride traverses several river canyons and ridges as I make my way South to Stumpy Meadows Reservoir and then down to Georgetown. The bulk of the climbing comes between Foresthill and Stumpy Meadows. After a 12 mile descent from Foresthill to the Oxbow Reservoir on the American River, elevation 1000 feet, you commence that most difficult climb I have ever encountered anywhere in the world, which I call the "Corkscrew Wall". Somehow somebody cut a road right into the canyon wall above Oxbow, which climbs up to Ralston Ridge in the high Sierra. The road climbs 2000 feet in 3 1/2 miles, first cutting across the canyon wall, then spiraling upward like a corkscrew to the ridgeline. Anyone who gets up this alive is a total stud!Of course by this time the water bottle has been reached for numerous times (like a pacifier for all the suffering of the climb) and with dwindling supplies, I grew delirious in the next two plus hours before staggering into Georgetown to raid the MarVal market. Uncle Tom’s Cabin, the highest point in the ride at 5000 feet, is reached at the 65 mile mark. Even though the ride is 100 miles, if you make it this far you are home free, because it is almost all steadily downhill or flat all the way to Georgetown, 24 miles away at 2650 feet elevation, then 16 more miles down to the confluence, passing through Greenwood and Cool.The ride is almost over  97 miles crossing the bridge over the American River. All that is left is a nice little 2.3 mile(0*0*0*climb up to Auburn to finish up  piece of cake in an air conditioned car! Not so on a bicycle. Those last 3 miles have been some of the longest of my life, particularly in the summer when the temperature in the canyon is off the charts! I have taken training buddies accustomed to the flatlands of Sacramento on the Death Ride, and seen them actually near death at the top of the canyon!The feeling of satisfaction is overwhelming upon returning to Auburn. To gaze as far as the eye can see into the high Sierra’s and know that you traveled that far in one day on your own power is quite a powerful sensation. For competitive athletes like myself and my training partners who I have "initiated" on the route in the last few years since my maiden ride, completing the loop is a tremendous confidence builder. Anything offered in the way of hills on a typical triathlon course in an urban setting is scoffed at after completing such an unbelievable ride. If you try this ride, just remember that I warned you  you will suffer big time, but it will be all worth it!

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Question:

I^HA friend of mine was in a recent Tri-Fed triathlon, and heard that some people were DQed for "the double yellow line rule".  I’m, er, he’s not a Tri-Fed member, so I’ve (ah, to hell with it) never read the rules, so I figured that it meant "don’t ride on the left side of the road".  However, when describing my bike leg, I mentioned that I took right turns by swinging out into the left lane, and cutting the apex of the turn.  This was done only at controlled intersections.  I did this several times, but was not DQed.  Should I have been?  I’m starting to feel guilty about this.

If you crossed a double yellow line then you should have been DQed. "All  participants  must obey all traffic laws while on the cycling  course unless  otherwise  specifically  directed by a  TriFed/USA  official,  race monitor, or designee with actual  authority.  Unless otherwise  directed in accordance with the precedeing  sentence, all participants  shall come to a complete stop when required by a traffic sign or traffic control device and shall not proceed  through any  intersection  unless such  intersection  in clear  of  oncoming  traffic.  IN NO CASE  SHALL A  CYCLIST  CROSS A DOUBLE YELLOW   LINE.  ANY   VIOLATION   OF  THIS   SECTION   WILL   RESULT  IN  A DISQUALIFICATION." — LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (303) 229-3117

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| | Same rules as cars — never cross a solid  yellow  line,  broken  lines are | cool.  Now, race  directors and local cops can make whatever  "extra" rules | they want .  .  . | I^HA friend of mine was in a recent Tri-Fed triathlon, and heard that some people were DQed for "the double yellow line rule".  I’m, er, he’s not a Tri-Fed member, so I’ve (ah, to hell with it) never read the rules, so I figured that it meant "don’t ride on the left side of the road".  However, when describing my bike leg, I mentioned that I took right turns by swinging out into the left lane, and cutting the apex of the turn.  This was done only at controlled intersections.  I did this several times, but was not DQed.  Should I have been?  I’m starting to feel guilty about this. Oh, the water was 79 degrees Ken Lehner

Response:

Now that one of the sport’s great unsolvable problems (wetsuits) has been the subject of great debate recently, I’d like to draw our attention back to the other one (drafting) for a question. I have encountered this problem a few times this season: I’m on the bike, and I encounter a group (not really a peloton or a pack) of other cyclists, who catch, and pass me (although the situation could come up where I come up behind them).  Anyway — for one reason or another, their pace slows to below what I would like to hold, and I’m stuck behind them.  It’s a two lane highway (as most are), thus I can either break the yellow line rule and pass them, or break the drafting rule, or go slower than I wish.  I was stuck behind cyclists three abreast once, and to try to quickly maneuver through them and get out of the zone in time would have been extremely dangerous.  It seems like that leaves only the choice of one of the two evils. Phil P.S.  As I was writing this I realized that perhaps I have been misinterpreting the yellow line rule.  Is it OK to cross the yellow line in passing zones (dashed yellow line)?  I always hear people speak of the double yellow line, but even one solid line on your side would put you in a no passing zone. Enlighten me. —     _/_/_/   _/  _/   _/   _/       _/      Phil Luebke, alumnus    _/   /   _/  _/   _/   _/       _/       The University of Northern Iowa   _/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/   _/       _/           _             _o            o  _/       _/  _/   _/   _/                   o/    U N I     <,   T R I  <| _/       _/  _/   _/   _/_/_/   _/          ^^^^^         ()/  ()         /

Response:

I have encountered this problem a few times this season: I’m on the bike, and I encounter a group (not really a peloton or a pack) of other cyclists, who catch, and pass me (although the situation could come up where I come up behind them).  Anyway — for one reason or another, their pace slows to below what I would like to hold, and I’m stuck behind them.  It’s a two lane highway (as most are), thus I can either break the yellow line rule and pass them, or break the drafting rule, or go slower than I wish.  I was stuck behind cyclists three abreast once, and to try to quickly maneuver through them and get out of the zone in time would have been extremely dangerous.  It seems like that leaves only the choice of one of the two evils.

"blocking",  just like  "drafting",  carries time penalties.  If I were you I’d use my voice  and ask folks to get out of the way.  As long as you make steady  progress  through the  "peleton" you are not violating the drafting rules.  If nobody  wants to move over just remind them that  "blocking"  is illegal just as drafting is. Phil P.S.  As I was writing this I realized that perhaps I have been misinterpreting the yellow line rule.  Is it OK to cross the yellow line in passing zones (dashed yellow line)?  I always hear people speak of the double yellow line, but even one solid line on your side would put you in a no passing zone. Enlighten me.

Same rules as cars — never cross a solid  yellow  line,  broken  lines are cool.  Now, race  directors and local cops can make whatever  "extra" rules they want .  .  . — LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (303) 229-3117

Response:

| I’d like to draw our attention back to the | other one (drafting) for a question. | | I have encountered this problem a few times this season: | I’m on the bike, and I encounter a group (not really a peloton or a pack) of | other cyclists, who catch, and pass me (although the situation could come up | where I come up behind them).  Anyway — for one reason or another, their pace | slows to below what I would like to hold, and I’m stuck behind them.  It’s a | two lane highway (as most are), thus I can either break the yellow line rule | and pass them, or break the drafting rule, or go slower than I wish.  I was | stuck behind cyclists three abreast once, and to try to quickly maneuver | through them and get out of the zone in time would have been extremely | dangerous.  It seems like that leaves only the choice of one of the two evils. | | Phil Try using some verbal communication to the other cyclists in front of you.  For example, when they are riding side-by-side and you can not get past them, yell "passing on your left, please move to the right" or something of this nature. It is usually an unwritten rule that athletes should ride as far to the right as possible and if they are side-by-side they must be 2-3 metres apart to avoid any drafting (this a TRIFED, ITU, … rule). Do not cross the center-line as this will usually result in disqualification and is a very dangerous practise! Bert Sandie

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