Question:

hot wax on your ass, that was considered a torture during the 14th century

We prefer to call it ‘discipline.’

Response:

welcome to the darkside! i will spare you the details and get right to it: first go over the "big" hairs with a head or dog shaver with no gaurd then follow up with body shop shaving cream for men( brushed on for best results) and remove with a fresh mach 3 razor. ive been shaving head to toe for 7 years and its the best way to go. if you think you can save a few bucks by using cheaper products (no i am not a rep for either gillette or body shop) youll only end up with nicks, cuts or worse. and you wont beleave how close a shave you get with this combo. follow up with lubridurm body cream (unsented) to protect you from drying right out. good luck and TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!!! fun bobby

Response:

Hmmf.. To each his own, I suppose. Don’t knock it till… get  a wetsuit, but most importantly don’t shave anything above the knees and below the waist.

Hopefully the other part of his "deal" was a similarly new situation for her.

Response:

Leave the hair on your knuckles. — http://dschreiner.freeservers.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmf.. To each his own, I suppose. Don’t knock it till… get  a wetsuit, but most importantly don’t shave anything above the knees and below the waist. Hopefully the other part of his "deal" was a similarly new situation for her.

Response:

.com… Leave the hair on your knuckles.

Mine gets scraped off from dragging them on the ground… Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — http://dschreiner.freeservers.com/ Hmmf.. To each his own, I suppose. Don’t knock it till… get  a wetsuit, but most importantly don’t shave anything above the knees and below the waist. Hopefully the other part of his "deal" was a similarly new situation for her.

Response:

Hey, shaving is not a problem, razors work fine.   It’s the growing back that hurts. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it is slowly warming up here in the NorthEastern States, and i eagerly look forward to getting a decent road bike ot start some training rides outside.  i am going stir crazy sitting on the damn lifecycles in the gym… But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair.  I kind of engineered it to co-incide with the start of racing season.  What do a lot of triathletes/swimmers use? I have seen advertisements for hair removal products in various tri and sports mags, but i figured i would actually get some input from others who have "been there, done that" And, a related question, are there any body areas i should not attempt to de-hair? cheers, and thanks in adavnce eric r. i. clinton "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

Response:

The pact…  Well, its kinda just devolves into a stupid human trick. The pact was that she excercises regularly for 3 months, and i somehow "lose" my leg hair and hopefully a good portion of my arse hair.  The old carrot and the draft horse routine….  Being only 23 and rather hairy has earned me a few "aren’t you the missing link?" comments or "is that a gorilla or Eric in the TV?" comments. I really do not mind the comments, since there are much more serious things ot get a twist in my knickers about, and at least i got my gf pretty much hooked on rowing and biking.  She is happier, fitter, and more aggressive…  all bonuses for me.  hehe oh, and thanks for the tip on the belt sander.  That would give a much more refined and stylish look than simple road rash, eh? cheers Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair.   You can shave, wax, nads, tweeze, or, if you’re a real man, use a belt sander.  But enough of that; we want to know more about this pact.

                                        eric r. i. clinton                                 www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~madpiper/                                 "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

Response:

The question I have is how do I get my wife hooked on any exercise. I can’t use the "shave" lure as I am already pretty much hair free. Richard C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The pact…  Well, its kinda just devolves into a stupid human trick. The pact was that she excercises regularly for 3 months, and i somehow "lose" my leg hair and hopefully a good portion of my arse hair.  The old carrot and the draft horse routine….  Being only 23 and rather hairy has earned me a few "aren’t you the missing link?" comments or "is that a gorilla or Eric in the TV?" comments. I really do not mind the comments, since there are much more serious things ot get a twist in my knickers about, and at least i got my gf pretty much hooked on rowing and biking.  She is happier, fitter, and more aggressive…  all bonuses for me.  hehe oh, and thanks for the tip on the belt sander.  That would give a much more refined and stylish look than simple road rash, eh? cheers Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair. You can shave, wax, nads, tweeze, or, if you’re a real man, use a belt sander.  But enough of that; we want to know more about this pact. eric r. i. clinton www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~madpiper/ "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

Response:

hot wax on your ass, that was considered a torture during the 14th century – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The pact…  Well, its kinda just devolves into a stupid human trick. The pact was that she excercises regularly for 3 months, and i somehow "lose" my leg hair and hopefully a good portion of my arse hair.  The old carrot and the draft horse routine….  Being only 23 and rather hairy has earned me a few "aren’t you the missing link?" comments or "is that a gorilla or Eric in the TV?" comments. I really do not mind the comments, since there are much more serious things ot get a twist in my knickers about, and at least i got my gf pretty much hooked on rowing and biking.  She is happier, fitter, and more aggressive…  all bonuses for me.  hehe oh, and thanks for the tip on the belt sander.  That would give a much more refined and stylish look than simple road rash, eh? cheers Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair. You can shave, wax, nads, tweeze, or, if you’re a real man, use a belt sander.  But enough of that; we want to know more about this pact.                                         eric r. i. clinton                                 www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~madpiper/                                 "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

friend of mine works at a cosmetics studio, so i get a first-class hot wax treatment every few weeks during the racing season. during the off-season i’m shaving them myself, which is a bit cheaper: hot shower first, use a cheap non-scented shaving cream, fresh blade for each leg, follow with aloe gel. note: shaving makes the roots stronger, so waxing usually hurts more at the beginning of the season. or perhaps i’m just getting used to it over the summer… oh, and i only shave my legs. that sort of makes me wonder how many triathletes actually go for arms and torso as well. hmmm. -stephan [ 1:20 run today... hmmm... that used to be a 1:35 trail... ] — stephan mantler: endurance sports maniac    reality is in fact virtual.

Response:

don’t shave your eyebrows.  they might not grow back! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it is slowly warming up here in the NorthEastern States, and i eagerly look forward to getting a decent road bike ot start some training rides outside.  i am going stir crazy sitting on the damn lifecycles in the gym… But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair.  I kind of engineered it to co-incide with the start of racing season.  What do a lot of triathletes/swimmers use? I have seen advertisements for hair removal products in various tri and sports mags, but i figured i would actually get some input from others who have "been there, done that" And, a related question, are there any body areas i should not attempt to de-hair? cheers, and thanks in adavnce                                         eric r. i. clinton                                 "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

Response:

But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair.  

You can shave, wax, nads, tweeze, or, if you’re a real man, use a belt sander.  But enough of that; we want to know more about this pact.

Response:

get  a wetsuit, but most importantly don’t shave anything above the knees and below the waist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it is slowly warming up here in the NorthEastern States, and i eagerly look forward to getting a decent road bike ot start some training rides outside.  i am going stir crazy sitting on the damn lifecycles in the gym… But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair.  I kind of engineered it to co-incide with the start of racing season.  What do a lot of triathletes/swimmers use? I have seen advertisements for hair removal products in various tri and sports mags, but i figured i would actually get some input from others who have "been there, done that" And, a related question, are there any body areas i should not attempt to de-hair? cheers, and thanks in adavnce eric r. i. clinton "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

Response:

Since it is slowly warming up here in the NorthEastern States, and i eagerly look forward to getting a decent road bike ot start some training rides outside.  i am going stir crazy sitting on the damn lifecycles in the gym… But, on to my question. As a result of a pact with my girlfriend, i promised ot either shave, nair, or otherwise remove a large portion of my body hair.  I kind of engineered it to co-incide with the start of racing season.  What do a lot of triathletes/swimmers use? I have seen advertisements for hair removal products in various tri and sports mags, but i figured i would actually get some input from others who have "been there, done that" And, a related question, are there any body areas i should not attempt to de-hair? cheers, and thanks in adavnce                                         eric r. i. clinton                                 "Blow My Pipes" — kilted Hash Master of HVH3 "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible" — Anonymous

Response:

Question:

Hi, I’m wondering if anyone might have suggestions for a focused book/video on cycling technique and training with or without emphasis on triathlon(though that’s what I’m mostly interested in).  I’m interested because I’ve been really impressed by the running coaching I’ve received lately which has made my running much easier and the swimming lessons I’ve gotten from the Total Immersion book which, similarly, has opened my eyes and is starting to make swimming a treat rather than a chore.  So, I’m wondering if anyone has had any such imressions from an approach to cycling they’ve discovered. I’m certainly not expecting any miracles, just ways to use the expertise of other, better athletes to improve my workouts. Thanks in advance. — Alex

Response:

Joe Friel, Chris Carmichael both have good books.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m wondering if anyone might have suggestions for a focused book/video on cycling technique and training with or without emphasis on triathlon(though that’s what I’m mostly interested in).  I’m interested because I’ve been really impressed by the running coaching I’ve received lately which has made my running much easier and the swimming lessons I’ve gotten from the Total Immersion book which, similarly, has opened my eyes and is starting to make swimming a treat rather than a chore.  So, I’m wondering if anyone has had any such imressions from an approach to cycling they’ve discovered. I’m certainly not expecting any miracles, just ways to use the expertise of other, better athletes to improve my workouts. Thanks in advance. — Alex

Response:

Question:

Not really, it almost becomes more important in that people feel that there is a certain freedom on setting the cleats. I agree, if people want to set their own cleats, they surely can but I’ve learned quite a bit over the past years and know that 90% of people who come in to be fitted have done a disservice setting their own cleats. Just my thoughts… STeve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello everyone, I was wondering, I am new to riding with clipless pedals and I have heard that if they are not positioned right you can mess your knees up. I guess I am being a little paranoid but how do I know if my cleats are put on correctly. are their any rules to follow or any signs that they are put on wrong. This becomes somewhat of a non-issue if you get pedals and cleats that allow some rotation (usually < 20 degrees.)

  steves.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Rule # 1. Go to a certified fit technician who is familiar with setting cleats and tri bike positions. Rule #2. DONT try to set them yourself, EVER! Rule #3. See rule #1 Steve’s Multisport

Lotsa cycling and tri books have advice on cleat set up, so work of one of those to start with. Then when you think you have it sorted ask an old cyclo to have a look at your set up, and they’ll show you where you went wrong. Then its down to feel. If you get any niggling pain sort it out quickly before you do damage. Just 2 bits. Brian P " Dont try this at home" Casey.

Response:

 I agree with Steve in the statement below. I think issue of knee strain has been minimized greatly due to the generous float provided on most pedal systems, but that only means you can "get by" with a rather poor setup. Also, float does nothing to the fore/aft position of the cleat, or the location in relation to the center of the shoe lateraly.  There’s really quite a bit of information out there if you search fot it. I used the basic advice from Greg Lemond’s old book, and it certainly got me set up to cycle without injury. To get the optimal setup, however, there are MANY factors, including femur length, foot size, seat position, etc. While a adequate setting will let you "get by", an optimum setup will give you an improvement which will be more apparant the harder and longer you ride. Position for USCF type racing is slightly different from what’s best for dedicated hammering in the TT position.  Most of us. me included, are probably riding with cleats in less than optimal position simply because our knees haven’t complained yet, so we think everything’s set up correctly. And for the most part, we’ll probably "get by" OK. Chuck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not really, it almost becomes more important in that people feel that there is a certain freedom on setting the cleats. I agree, if people want to set their own cleats, they surely can but I’ve learned quite a bit over the past years and know that 90% of people who come in to be fitted have done a disservice setting their own cleats. Just my thoughts… STeve

Response:

well I have to say that today around 2:30 I checked to see if anyone had given me some advice and you had. I love this group. by 3 pm I was at my LBS and by 5 I was fitted and set to go with a perfect bike for me. Me cleats where totally of I love them now. not only did my knees feel great by I am more efficient since my energy is going to the right place. normally I keep a 19 mph pace on my bike on a 20 mile ride. yesterday I was saying I cant wait to have a 20 mph pace and today i did it 20.02 mph pace. I defenetly think it has to do with the adjustments I feel great. Thanks for the advice. Albert

Response:

Not if you see what I see. Many people set their cleats and then come in complaining of knee pain or worse. A certified fit tech. is someone has taken courses from Fit Kit and also from A Gear Higher. I’ve also been trained by a trainer Pat Croche on proper knee alignment. Pat is now the owner of the Sixers and I still keep in touch with him. He worked with me after my 2nd knee injury. Trust me, I’d rather not see anyone "just position their cleats" where they "think" they should be. Just my thoughts STeve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule # 1. Go to a certified fit technician who is familiar with setting cleats and tri bike positions. Rule #2. DONT try to set them yourself, EVER! Rule #3. See rule #1 Huh?? I’ve always set my own cleats.  Sound just a tad extreme here, Steve. What exactly IS a "certified fit technician" anyway?  When I first started riding, lo these many, many years ago, I just had an experienced cyclist friend help me with the ol’ fixed cleats on those lo-tech rattrap pedals.  Wow, seems a lifetime ago. With the amount of float most pedal systems offer these days there’s a reasonable "margin of error" for cleat setting.  Although I agree that for the newbie getting his first-ever set of cleats it’s wise to seek expert help.  However, to say "Don’t EVER try to set your cleats yourself" sounds a trifle over the top. TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

  steves.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

hello everyone, I was wondering, I am new to riding with clipless pedals and I have heard that if they are not positioned right you can mess your knees up. I guess I am being a little paranoid but how do I know if my cleats are put on correctly. are their any rules to follow or any signs that they are put on wrong.

This becomes somewhat of a non-issue if you get pedals and cleats that allow some rotation (usually < 20 degrees.)

Response:

Huh?? to say "Don’t EVER try to set your cleats yourself" sounds a trifle over the top.

I agree – I set my own cleats, then adjust them as needed.  Of course, I set up my own ski bindings.   Brian "Who needs a dentist, I;ve a Dremel and a tube of JB Weld!" Wagner

Response:

Your local bike shop should have a fit kit designed soley for that purpose. Yes it is important and no your not paranoid. Center of cleat should be directly below the large joint in large toe. While standing flat footed bring toes in like your trying to pick up a towel from off the floor. That large hump is it.  Make sure saddle fore aft position coincides w/ cleats. Use a plumline dropped from your knee to the center of the pedals axle. For lateral movement, you can sit on a table and let your legs/feet relax and notice how they are (do they turn out or straight) and then adj your cleats accordingly. A fit kit, or pictures of HOW TO is really what you need. I use speedplay which allows for alot of lateral movement, thus the cleat placement is not as critical. — "fortitudine vincimus" Before you buy.

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rule # 1. Go to a certified fit technician who is familiar with setting cleats and tri bike positions. Rule #2. DONT try to set them yourself, EVER! Rule #3. See rule #1

Huh?? I’ve always set my own cleats.  Sound just a tad extreme here, Steve. What exactly IS a "certified fit technician" anyway?  When I first started riding, lo these many, many years ago, I just had an experienced cyclist friend help me with the ol’ fixed cleats on those lo-tech rattrap pedals.  Wow, seems a lifetime ago. With the amount of float most pedal systems offer these days there’s a reasonable "margin of error" for cleat setting.  Although I agree that for the newbie getting his first-ever set of cleats it’s wise to seek expert help.  However, to say "Don’t EVER try to set your cleats yourself" sounds a trifle over the top. TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

hello everyone, I was wondering, I am new to riding with clipless pedals and I have heard that if they are not positioned right you can mess your knees up. I guess I am being a little paranoid but how do I know if my cleats are put on correctly. are their any rules to follow or any signs that they are put on wrong. Thanks Albert

Response:

Rule # 1. Go to a certified fit technician who is familiar with setting cleats and tri bike positions. Rule #2. DONT try to set them yourself, EVER! Rule #3. See rule #1 Steve’s Multisport – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello everyone, I was wondering, I am new to riding with clipless pedals and I have heard that if they are not positioned right you can mess your knees up. I guess I am being a little paranoid but how do I know if my cleats are put on correctly. are their any rules to follow or any signs that they are put on wrong. Thanks Albert

  steves.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Question:

The common opinion is that it was the first year of the race, on a hilly course. Most people went to IMC. greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RST folks, Does anyone have any opinions about this race in BC Canada? I’ve emailed back and forth with the race director and found out that 1999 was the first year for this race. They had less than 30 entrants. I’m interested because as a 220 lb. clydesdale, I need a very flat race for my first attempt at the Ironman distance. Any other RSTers going to do this race in 2000? Anyone know someone who did the race in 1999 from whom I could get feedback? Any suggestions for another flat IM distance race in North America? Thanks, Scott Watters Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

That’s interesting. Both the web site and the race director list it as a flat bike with an even flatter run. That’s the one reason I am considering it. I did get the email address of one of the racers from 1999. I will post more info after I contact him. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The common opinion is that it was the first year of the race, on a hilly course. Most people went to IMC. greg RST folks, Does anyone have any opinions about this race in BC Canada? I’ve emailed back and forth with the race director and found out that 1999 was the first year for this race. They had less than 30 entrants. I’m interested because as a 220 lb. clydesdale, I need a very flat race for my first attempt at the Ironman distance. Any other RSTers going to do this race in 2000? Anyone know someone who did the race in 1999 from whom I could get feedback? Any suggestions for another flat IM distance race in North America? Thanks, Scott Watters Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

RST folks, Does anyone have any opinions about this race in BC Canada? I’ve emailed back and forth with the race director and found out that 1999 was the first year for this race. They had less than 30 entrants. I’m interested because as a 220 lb. clydesdale, I need a very flat race for my first attempt at the Ironman distance. Any other RSTers going to do this race in 2000? Anyone know someone who did the race in 1999 from whom I could get feedback? Any suggestions for another flat IM distance race in North America? Thanks, Scott Watters Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Hi Room for a link? Need some prizes? How about software? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 40 sites now make up the Triathlon Webring. 2 new sites added today. A webring is a group of related sites and this one consists of a variety of club, personal and other tri-related sites. New sites always welcome to join. To visit the ring, start with http://MultiSweatRacing.org thanks, Diane Tarver http://MultiSweatRacing.org or http://Tri-Specialties.com

– Ken Burres UltraCOACH Software http://www.ultracch.com Check out virtual fitness and our free working software

  kpb.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Over 40 sites now make up the Triathlon Webring. 2 new sites added today. A webring is a group of related sites and this one consists of a variety of club, personal and other tri-related sites. New sites always welcome to join. To visit the ring, start with http://MultiSweatRacing.org thanks, Diane Tarver http://MultiSweatRacing.org or http://Tri-Specialties.com

Response:

Introducing THE TRIATHLON WEBRING. This is a concept where member sites place the ring logo on their site and it gives you the option to visit next, previous or random sites in the ring.  It is a ring of triathlon/multi-sport related sites. THE TRIATHLON RING is brand new and has already started with its first few sites.   If you have a triathlon related site and would like to join  THE TRIATHLON RING or you want to see what all the fuss is about, Check out http://MultiSweatRacing.org for the details. This is the first multi-sport webring! Suggestions, comments are encouraged. Thanks, Diane Tarver http://MultiSweatRacing.org

Response:

The Triathlon Webring has started and is growing.  A ring is a group of releted sites. You can visit the next, previous or random sites in the ring. Sites added  this past week:     Inland Inferno Triathlon Club       Arizona State University TriDevils       Edinburgh Triathletes       Roger’s IronMan/Triathlon Homepage     Tri-Swamp       USAT SMW Rankings       Multi-Sweat Racing of SW LA If you have a site and wish to join THE TRIATHLON WEBRING or you want to visit the sites on the ring, the information can be found at http://MultiSweatRacing.org Thanks, Diane Tarver

Response:

Question:

– Before you started exercising the muscles in your feet were contracted and stiff, causing the toes to curl. Running exercised the muscles which then attained their natural length and flexibility. In the process your toes straightned resulting in the need for larger shoe. I’ve been running for nearly 40 years and my arches havn’t collapsed yet. /             / | oo       oo |/ ||     |||     ||    Pete, ||             ||        |     ===     |       //|\

Response:

Susan, my feet grew a size after having a baby.   Marda

Response:

I only just started this year, and my feet have grown half a size.  I have always needed orthotics though, and when my last pair wore down to the hard plastic,  I stopped wearing them.  I now wear Dr.Schols at work, and just quality insoles in my running.  Ive had no problems as of yet, maybe my feet and ancles are stronger.  I would like to know, though, if there are breathable, flexable, cushioned athetic perscription orthotics out there. Jon.

Response:

There are some wonderful (and expensive) ortholics out there.  Every marathon expo I’ve been to has had people there selling lighter, softer orthodics.  Remember tho’, the softer they are the faster they will break down and the sooner they have to be replaced.  I get leather ones from a chiropractor and they are great.  I was wearing them full time and only getting one marathon out of them (I do 2 a year) but I am trying wearing them only to run and having no problems so maybe I’ll get a full year out of them. Good luck, Andrea

Response:

A respected local runner informed me that about 70% of runners eventually develop fallen arches. I’ve developed flat feet over the years, but thought it was a heredity trait.

My feet have increased at least a full shoe size since I began running regularly in adulthood, and I hear it’s quite a common observation.  It isn’t just a case of a change in shoe sizing or manufacturer either.  Two pairs of boots that I wear only a few times a year, and did so for many years in my 20s, were suddenly one winter (after my first summer/fall of real running) way too small.  Since I don’t imagine our foot bones are really increasing in length, it could be that our arches are flattening. Is it normal for feet to flatten gradually over a lifetime?  Maybe it just happens more quickly in runners.  My feet still arch, don’t know if they’re less arched than before, though.  A flat-footed friend of mine says that his arches fell all at once during a long hard run in high-school, during a period of high-mileage running.   Susan Hall                             (__)       _   Dalhousie University                          .’  `.                                                ’"                                                       .       (  )   Triathlon Nova Scotia Website                ’-| )__| :.     http://is.dal.ca/~susanhal/tnshome.html        | |  | |  ’.

Response:

My feet have increased at least a full shoe size since I began running regularly in adulthood, and I hear it’s quite a common observation.  It isn’t just a case of a change in shoe sizing or manufacturer either.  Two

Perhaps it is your pre-running days when your feet were abnormally stiff and cramped.  Running has made your feet more agile and muscular, and somewhat larger, the way they were genetically designed!

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A respected local runner informed me that about 70% of runners eventually develop fallen arches. I’ve developed flat feet over the years, but thought it was a heredity trait. Has anyone done any studies about this? Is 70% an accurate figure? — Jeff

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Question:

Anyone use a Cardiosport HRM?       Any problems?          Can you change the batteries in the transmitter? Thank you somuch Jane

I’m using Cardiosport HRM for 6 months. For running and biking, it’s working well but it’s not working in conductive water (Pool, salt water,…) because of the transmitter. You can change the batteries in the transmitter. It offers a lot of function for the price (record capability, time, chrono, alarm). I’m using the Heartsafe t model. I hope it will help you bye Michel

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Anyone use a Cardiosport HRM?       Any problems?          Can you change the batteries in the transmitter? Thank you somuch Jane

Hi Jane, I have used a Cardiosport Heartsafe T for a year with no problems and yes you can change the transmitter batteries with no problem. One piece of advice is make sure the chest strap is tight if you sweat a lot or  else it will slip around giving a rough conatct. Paul

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Anyone use a Cardiosport HRM?       Any problems?          Can you change the batteries in the transmitter? Thank you somuch Jane

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Anyone use a Cardiosport HRM?       Any problems?          Can you change the batteries in the transmitter? Thank you somuch Jane

Yes, you can change the batteries in the transmitter.  Just be careful not to lose the O-ring that provides the moisture seal.  A friend used mine in the pool and brought the trasmitter back waterlogged.  Had to get a replacement.  Haven’t had any problems since.  Good luck.

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Anyone use a Cardiosport HRM?      Any problems?         Can you change the batteries in the transmitter? Thank you somuch Jane

Hi Jane, For a dutch triathlon magazine, I tested/reviewed about 10 HRM’s. 3 of them where CardioSport HRM’s (CS).  In short some points: 1. CardioSport offers better price/product rate than say Polar. CS HRM’s are cheaper, technically there are not much differences. 2. Batteries of both transmitter and reciever can be changed by yourself. In the manual you will find the correct battery type. If you have any doubts, a jeweler will do it for you. It is important that the rubber bands are replaced correct do the HRM stays waterproof. 3. Not one HRM operates accurate during swim workouts. In (heavy) rain I discovered only minor problems. 4. Currently (in the Netherlands) CS HRM’s are shipped with a seperate chest band/transmitter. The manufacturer told me that about april ‘96 these will be replaced by chest bands with incorporated transmitters. This is better. If you decide to purchase a CS pay attention to this. The new chest bands are more accurate, you cannot lose the (seperate) transmitter, and it is less sensitive for problems. You can still change batteries in this new band! 5. CardioSport offers a rate of 5 different models. There must be one of your choice. 6. CS HRM’s are *big*. If you have a small wrist, the might be ungainly for you. Try this at you local reseller. 7. You can find CS on the World Wide Web on URL http://www.montana.com/Stafford/CARDIOsport.html 8. Good luck. Can I get the results of your quest? Peter Kassenaar. Peter Kassenaar (The Netherlands)

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This company has to get its act together. I bought the Cardiosport HRM in August, but had to wait more than a month to get the PC interface (I purchased both at the same time). Then it came without the software. I had to call the company and have it mailed. I may return it.

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sounds like a horrible experience.  have you tried the polar HRM’s?  I haven’t personally tried any HRMs but am interested in possibly buying one for fun  How does that chest strap feel?  does it feel like it’s going to fall off or something? – Carra This company has to get its act together. I bought the Cardiosport HRM in August, but had to wait more than a month to get the PC interface (I purchased both at the same time). Then it came without the software. I had to call the company and have it mailed. I may return it.

– http://more.at/easy – Make the most of your time = money! http://start.at/carra –  My first web page http://www.studynow.com – Medical Bookstore Before you buy.

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Hello, Has anyone had problems with their HRM CardioSport Heartsafe bought 2 years ago. really high numbers are shown for moderate exercise? This seems to occur at random times – the HR will indicated will go up to 190 or so and I’m just barely breaking a sweat!. At other times, the HR will go from 80 to 150 to 110, and and bounce around.  Could this be a sign that the battery is going?

I’m having exactly the same experience just now. I hope that it is the batteries, I’m going to change them anyway. The other possibility is that I also had just tightened the chest strap?? — Cheers, Richard. Arran Triathlon Club – we got both kindsa wind, out *and* back!

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Has anyone had problems with their HRM CardioSport Heartsafe bought 2 years ago. really high numbers are shown for moderate exercise? This seems to occur at random times – the HR will indicated will go up to 190 or so and I’m just barely breaking a sweat!. At other times, the HR will go from 80 to 150 to 110, and and bounce around.  Could this be a sign that the battery is going? I’m having exactly the same experience just now. I hope that it is the batteries, I’m going to change them anyway. The other possibility is that I also had just tightened the chest strap?? —

I am not familiar with the Cardiosport HRM, but I recently bought a Performance HRM and experienced the same problem. I would get erratic heart rates of up to 240 after less than a minute of running(!). Then it would drop down to below 110 and bounce all over the place. The design is a knockoff of the Polar design, with a wristwatch and an elastic belt with "sensors" (it is, however, significantly cheaper than an equivalent Polar). I found that the problem disappeared when I doused the sensors in a running stream of tap water before donning the belt (simply moistening the sensors with saliva does not work reliably – you have to drench ‘em). The HRM works fine now. Hope this helps. — Regards, Matt Pope

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This is a problem with all the HRMs I have used: Polar Vantage NV, SportsTester and Accurex II although surprisingly the latest supposedly state of the art Vantage NV is much the worse in my opinion. I think you have done all you can. If the signal starts to go move the watch close up to the strap and the normal readings should return. Tim Grose – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,  Has anyone had problems with their HRM (Cardiosport or Polar) where  really high numbers are shown for moderate exercise? This seems to  occur at random times – the HR will indicated will go up to 190 or  so and I’m just barely breaking a sweat! I sometimes have to cycle through  the other modes to make it "forget" the high readings and go back to  something reasonable (120s usually). At other times, the HR will go from 80  to 150 to 110, and and bounce around. There’s usually enough sweat and I  tightened the chest strap down. Any ideas as to how to fix this? Could this  be a sign that the battery is going? Thanks in advance for any advice/tips  you can give me.  PS. I’m using a CardioSport Heartsafe bought 2 years ago. Regards,  Bill Warning! I am *not* an official HP spokesperson. No warrenty is implied. The opinions expressed above may or may not match those of the HP. HP speaks for HP, I speak for myself.

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Hello, Has anyone had problems with their HRM (Cardiosport or Polar) where really high numbers are shown for moderate exercise? This seems to occur at random times – the HR will indicated will go up to 190 or so and I’m just barely breaking a sweat!

Mine had an exceptionally high readout during a 10K this past June.  I was using the race as a tempo run, wanting my to heart rate to be around 160.   However, I kept getting unusually inflated readings, some as high as 190 (I’m 35 years old.)

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Hello, Has anyone had problems with their HRM (Cardiosport or Polar) where really high numbers are shown for moderate exercise? This seems to occur at random times – the HR will indicated will go up to 190 or so and I’m just barely breaking a sweat!

I too noticed really high numbers well up into the 200’s but this problem went away when I set my Polar HRM to show the ‘lap distances’ instead of ‘time of day’ in the middle column.  I’m sure it shouldn’t happen, but I’ve had no repeat errors since using the ‘lap distances’. —          Johannesburg, RSA     Brought to you via AIX and OS/2

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Hello,  Has anyone had problems with their HRM (Cardiosport or Polar) where  really high numbers are shown for moderate exercise? This seems to  occur at random times – the HR will indicated will go up to 190 or  so and I’m just barely breaking a sweat! I sometimes have to cycle through  the other modes to make it "forget" the high readings and go back to  something reasonable (120s usually). At other times, the HR will go from 80  to 150 to 110, and and bounce around. There’s usually enough sweat and I  tightened the chest strap down. Any ideas as to how to fix this? Could this  be a sign that the battery is going? Thanks in advance for any advice/tips  you can give me.  PS. I’m using a CardioSport Heartsafe bought 2 years ago. Regards,  Bill Warning! I am *not* an official HP spokesperson. No warrenty is implied. The opinions expressed above may or may not match those of the HP. HP speaks for HP, I speak for myself.

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Question:

Referenced Post (edited): I cannot understand why ANY athlete would think a treadmill is a good training tool!!?  Most treadmills I’ve encountered are the type on which you set the "speed" with which it moves the tread for you. I see a lot of potential for injury, especially when you misjudge the speed. Whenever I’ve tried one, my knees start hurting, because I have to adjust to the pace of the treadmill, rather than the other way around. No one runs at a mechanically constant pace.  If the treadmill moves for you, how on earth are you working

the hamstring and gluteus maximus muscles  the same way you would when you are running?  = All you are doing is jumping up and down while the treadmill moves the tread underneath you, which is almost the same motion as running in place. Of course this would take less energy than actually doing the work of running!   It would be a different story if you provided ALL of the propulsion to move the track, and the treadmill merely functioned to monitor your speed. My two cents.

Back when I was a serious runner I owned a treadmill and I put a couple thousand miles on it. You really are running in the true sense. While it isn’t intuitively obvious, if you "jump up and down" you will go backwards. Try it the next time you are in a airport with one of those long "automated walkways". If you walk the wrong way in order to not move (relative to the surroundings) you have to walk (just like walking on a solid floor). Zero momentum is relative to the belt that you are standing on, not the floor (which your body is totally unaware of). Relative to injury problems, you do have to get used to these things. It doesn’t take long, but it does take a couple of runs. My treadmill (early 1980’s vintage) had a bar that you moved to change the velocity. As far as I am concerned they are a whole lot better than today’s push-button electronic versions. I could slow mine down in a half second or so. Seems like it takes a blue-million ‘beeps’ on the new ones. I guess that you don’t run at a constant velocity exactly, but every treadmill that I’ve seen had plenty of front to back area for any slight, mid-step deviation from the treadmill speed. The only problem that I ever had was a slight tendency to run off the front of mine. I finally got to the point where maybe 95% of my steps barely grazed the piece of metal that was immediately in front of the moving belt. When I ran and watched TV I used this as kind of a feedback that told me that I was in the right place. I ran through an entire U. of Ky. basketball game once (UK beat LSU – I ran 18 miles). An interesting sidenote. I am recovering from an ilio-tibial (hip) injury. My doctor recommends running on grass as best, a treadmill next (they flex and have substantial ‘give’), dirt trails, and pavement (naturally) as the worst surface to run on. I’m wondering if the treadmills that you have tried are ‘light duty’ treadmills that can’t hold a constant velocity under the jarring of a normal running motion? I always considered running on a treadmill to be much less stress on my body than running on the roads. But unless you have a TV or music or something it can get pretty boring. dave

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I started training for triathon and I wanted to know if working out on   bike machines and treadmill could efficiently replace the real thing since   it seems that particularly running on a treadmill is easier.

[.sig omitted] Both are good tools to work into your training, especially for interval type speedwork and times when the weather or your time schedule make outdoor workouts difficult. Make sure the seat and handlebar setup on the bike machine approximates your regular bike as closely as possible. These machines are good supplements to a training regimen but can’t replace the real thing. You can’t pick up bike handling skills on a stationary bike and long workouts become very tedious without the interaction with the outside world and training partners.

Just a comment about the bike-handling skills.  One indoor option to improve bike handling (particularly popular up here in Manitoba where the winters can be annoyingly long) is rollers.  They’re tough to get used to, but nothing lets you practice balance better IMHO, notwithstanding what Mr. Peabody said about the outside world and training partners. A few years back, bad weather forced me to do a lot of my marathon buildup on a treadmill and I can assure you that three hour + treadmill runs can cause serious brain damage.

Ironically, us Manitobans seem determined to be out running in dark, cold (-30

Question:

        Not that I expect to qualify in what will likely be my first Triathlon, but what kind of time does a 26 year old male need to qualify for Kona at the Philadelphia 1/2 IM on Aug. 4? Thanks in advance. Jeff (why am i starting with a 1/2 IM?) S.

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An age-group and race near and dear to my heart.  Most likely a maximum of two athletes will qualify from our age-group at Fairmont.  Last year first place in our age group was Todd DeBoom (brother of Tim and Tony) with a 4:09:32 and Tim Streb at 4:09:54 was second.  Hot times to say the least. Tim’s splits were 25:58 (incl T1), 2:15 (incl T2), and 1:28 (6:47 pace), and he was 10th Overall (Todd was 8th). This year’s race will probably be more competitive.  Good luck to us all!!! ACtri

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Question:

Regarding drafting: Has anyone ever asked the athletes how they feel? I’m talking about a real survey – pros and age groupers. I think it’s called majority rules.

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Regarding drafting: Has anyone ever asked the athletes how they feel? I’m talking about a real survey – pros and age groupers. I think it’s called majority rules.

Gee, here we go again… I think its been done once or twice Dr. Maffetone.

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Why is the ITU so hung up on draft-legal races anyway? They’re taking control of our sport and turning it into something else for no apparent reason. Drafting makes a race more exciting? It appeals to television and sponsors? Says who? TV and sponsors don’t even know what drafting is . Les McDonald says triathlon won’t be in the Olympics without drafting. Says who? The ITU or the IOC? I think that the Olympics would be just as interested in a race with or without drafting. It’s just a matter of what’s presented to them. Where is TriFed during all of this nonsense? Is the name of the game Olympics at any cost. Do we want Olympic Triathlon Teams comprised of a pack of cyclists pulling a sub-30 min. 10K runner? Is that the future of triathlon? Maybe in such a scenario, the team would have to ALL reach the finish line before the time would count. I, for one, would like to see the sport remain a personal effort. Leave the drafting for the roadies. That’s their game. They do it well.

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How about while they are drafting in teh bike the competitors swing hammers at each other?  Wouldn’t that make it really interesting?  I bet that would be great for TV.  And how about during the run play hopscoth.  Boy TV would really love that.  You getting all this down Les McDonald?  I’ll bet your kicking yourself that you didn’t think of it first!!

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Here’s a possible solution to the drafting problem…a short 1-2 mile run after the swim!  That would break things up! Oh yeah… those who suggest that the swim leg be contested last are nuts! I personally think that the swim leg should be shortened to 500m for Olympic distance events!! (’cause I sink). -Troy Jacobson

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How about while they are drafting in teh bike the competitors swing hammers at each other?  Wouldn’t that make it really interesting?  I bet that would be great for TV.  And how about during the run play hopscoth.  Boy TV would really love that.  You getting all this down Les McDonald?  I’ll bet your kicking yourself that you didn’t think of it first!!

How bout this… Since drafting eliminates the "individual" accomplishemnt concept, how bout the run as a 3 legged race.  You know, two runners with a left and right leg tied together.  Then they are limited to the slower runner of the two, or the faster runner has to drag the slower one along. I couldn’t resist. jo Redondo Beach, CA

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The future of draft-legal races? Read Lennard Zinn’s article in April Inside Triathlon. Sound like fun to you? If this is the future I’m shopping for golf clubs. Andrew Peabody Miami

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[snip] Obviously there are pros and cons to this, but speaking simply about the World Cup Series of Triathlon, and the ITU decision to make the races drafting legal, I have the following things to say: 1. When Lance Armstrong won the World Road Championship year before last, I would not like to be the one to explain to him that he didn’t win an individual event. 2.  After reports I received of a very well run race, but a very predictable amount of drafting among the top men, I would venture to say that the cycling leg of Tom Ziebart’s race (Powerman Florida) might have had more tactical dynamics (attempts at breakaways, maybe a successfull breakaway) with drafting being legal than without.  I don’t say this as a flame to Tom, but actually in praise of him.  His ability to assemble such a quality field almost guaranteed a big pack of top men on the bike leg. I am not huge fan of the ITU, specifically because it deals with the pro element of the sport, and almost by definition ignores the age-group element.  But in their defence, I think it would be wrong to believe that this drafting legal thing for Olympic development is primarily for TV watch-ability. Almost every race featuring the top athletes is going to have a drafting issue come up, because of the parity at the top ranks. I can envision one Olympics after another where the main issue isn’t who won the race, but of "unfair drafting."  The ITU simply wants to eliminate this as an issue.   You might think that the most experienced cyclists among the triathletes would be against this, and you might be right.  But they shouldn’t be. Since drafting exists anyway, I think those with the best cycling skills will be able to take advantage of a legality in drafting to make the most of these skills. Of course, future such discussions here in RST will almost certainly assume that drafting legal races will have an effect on age-group racing, and that is unfortunate.  We age-groupers have bigger issues we need to deal with. QRman

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| | Things got pretty hairy at times.  At one point, I was in a pace line | which was hammering along at 25 mph.  We encountered a traffic jam of | about 30 riders filling the road from curb to curb and riding at about 17 | mph.  The lead rider in the pace line started yelling "left, left" and | pushed on.  The rest of us yelled the same thing and followed him through | the mob.  We actually got through pretty smoothly. | | Only 3 or 4 people crashed during the race and those crashes generally | resulted from wet leaves, not drafting. | | Was this stupid?  You bet.  I certainly wouldn’t make a regular practice | out of this sort of thing.  However, to be honest, this was the most fun | I’ve had in a race.  :-) Sounds a lot like the century rides I do in the summer.  When I did Hotter’n Hell last year, the first 25 miles were nothing but a packed road of riders with pacelines trying to get by.  And I can tell you that most triathletes are 10 times better bike handlers than these people anyway (who started all this stuff about triathletes can’t handle a bike?).  I’ll admit I have never ridden with some real hard core roadies who can probably change a flat tire without even getting off the bike, but I really think the average triathlete isn’t too bad. And they put a lot more time in the saddle than the average "century rider."  The important thing is being able to ride straight and smooth, and triathletes are (or ought to be) masters of this.  Maybe I ought to enter a USCF race and see if I know what I am talking about. My point is, I think a group of triathletes could ride together in a pack, and the crash rate isn’t going to be 50% or anything.  Not that I want to see a group of triathletes in a pack, though. #include(obliglitory_flame_bait) To get back to the subject, do people really think drafting is a problem for the age group racers?  I haven’t seen it in any of the races I have done (8 years now), and I really don’t think drafting is that big of a problem.  If the pro’s are not playing by the rules, heck, lets lower the entry fees and do away with prize money and then there will not be any pros and, I guess, no drafting problem anymore!  I don’t care if any pros are racing against me anyway, since the only time I see them is at the start and at the awards (or maybe pulling into the finish while I am racking up my bike .  Triathlon is for fun, not business.  If the pros want to change triathlon, they better not count on getting any more money from people who think like me. dan

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<<To my understanding, the ITU is the world organization to which the NGBs <<belong.  The ITU should be soliciting the opinions of all the NGBs for <<concerns.  Or am I wrong?  Is the ITU for elites only or for the entire sport. The ITU is for elites only, in practice.  It is an accident that it is made up of member NGB’s who also exercise purview over the age-group side of the sport. If the age-group membership expects to wait until the ITU does something for them, it’ll be a long wait. US Masters is an example of an organization which works specifically for their age-group membership.  It is the perfect complement to US Swimming, which is the Olympic development side of the sport.  This phenomenon exists in the US almost exclusively.  I have been all over Europe, holed up in one town or another trying to find a pool to swim in while awaiting the next triathlon.  There are beautiful pools all over, but no such thing as a master’s team, and not even anything approaching lap swim.  No lane divisions (although there are lane lines).  The pools are exclusively inhabited by old farts who lay on their backs and do what appears to be breaststroke upside down, while they look at the sky and move around the pool in a roughly circular motion.  If there are organized groups for a workout it is always triathletes, and they have to fight for pool privilages. Triathlon is booming in Europe, but think how much easier it would have been for the Europeans had their been master’s teams in place.  But there was no impetus for that, because there was no thought given, from the swimming NGB’s, to what happens to those who DON’T make it to the Olympics.  Pretty soon you people will begin to understand that NGB’s do not exist, by and large, for the age-grouper, once the sport which it governs gets into the Olympics.  And certainly this is the case for World governing bodies. If you want Tri Fed, or whatever the NGB is for the country in which you reside, to represent you, the age-grouper you have to be a member of the NGB (paying your money and joinng), and you have to vote, you have to vote intelligently, and you have to be prepared for the consequences of your vote. QRman

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I f they are going to allow drafting(which I oppose) why don’t they change the bike length to the standard road race distance, which is about 60 miles(I think).

While they’re at it, why not change the swim to at least 2 miles to give the swimmers a better chance.  And put the swim last to make things even more interesting!

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While they’re at it, why not change the swim to at least 2 miles to give the swimmers a better chance.  And put the swim last to make things even more interesting! I don’t think that’s an unrealistic idea.  I would be very much in favor.  It would solve the wetsuit problem too if you had to put it on during the transistion  as well as remove it before going through the finish.  I would certainly welcome the longer swim. Kazez

        I think it is a great idea to lengthen the swim. The old USTS series originally had a swim that was 1.2miles. I think the swim at the end would be great too, but the fatigue factor of the weaker swimmers would be a concern. T.J. Fry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: T.J. Fry                    :"If a child asks why it is raining, a cute Clemson University          : thing to tell them is "God is crying", and                             : tell them is " It was probably something                              : that you did".-DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

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Just because you think everyone else is doing it, doesn’t make it right! Cheating may be inherent in everything you do, but I have never cheated at a race, and I never will. I have the satisfaction of reaching the finish line and knowing that I did it by myself. I don’t care if the person who finished 30 seconds ahead of me in my age group was drafting. I know that I have never drafted, and I never will. I won’t compete in the sport it if allows drafting.

Here, Here.  Hey I have an idea to deter drafting.  Announce before the race (or in the registration materials) that anyone caught drafting will be announced and have to come up on stage during the awards ceremony.  If they don’t appear, the will not be allowed to race in that race the next year.  I think public humiliation of the offenders would do a pretty good job of preventing the behavior.  Whaddya think? John K.

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<<Here’s a Monday morning thought…  I agree that drafting is a pro RACING <<problem.  Let’s make an extreme assumption that 80-90% of all pro races <<are draft-legal by 1998. Also another safe assumption is that the majority <<of televised races will be/have pro races (or races featuring pros).  Now <<let’s turn the clock forward to 1998.  How many *potential* newbies are <<going to know the difference between pro-drafting triathlon and age-group <<time-trial triathlon.   Now for all of us (who-once-were-newbies-too) that <<came from non-cycling backgrounds, would you be more or less likely to <<venture into triathlon thinking you would have to do pack bicycling <<racing?   << <<I don’t think you’d have to go to far out on a limb to say that the number <<of newbies would definitely start to decrease– it definitely would have <<made me think twice or at least take a couple of years to learn pack <<riding.  My assertion is that while the ITU claims that drafting is only <<of pro RACING conern, I submit that it is a triathlon as a whole concern <<(especially from the perspective of developing the first-timers in the <<age-group ranks). I think this is a very good point.  I don’t, however, think this is a deal breaker for drafting legal racing in the pro ranks.  Again I say, if there were some forum where the voice of the age-grouper could be heard in a collective fashion, I’d say that there could be a solution to this problem. Let me give you an example.  The ITU, which exists solely because there are age-group triathletes who have been the sole support, most of the time, of all the member NGB’s, could be granted a certain degree of support from such an age-group contingent if, among other things, every TV show which featured World Cup racing aired a commercial, or a 30 second segment of the actual program, which showed the age-group race.  In this commercial or segment, three things would be stressed.  First, the rule differences, i.e., no drafting.  Second, the telephone number of the NGB in the country in which the piece was being aired, so you could figure out how to join the NGB, and how to find out where there was a race near you. Third, how fun triathlon is!. Again, though, this assumes that there was an worldwide age-group council or voice which could speak to the ITU in a unified manner which appeared to the ITU unified, strong, and reasonable, instead of (from the ITU’s point of view), fragmented, troublesome, bitchy. QRman

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I was wondering about something related to this thread. When they started triathlons they based the olympic bike distance on the accepted uscf time trial distance,40K. I f they are going to allow drafting(which I oppose) why don’t they change the bike length to the standard road race distance, which is about 60 miles(I think). that way a good cyclist, bad runner would have a chance to break away and still have a chance for glory in the end.The set up now seems(at least to me) to have the ride just a warmup for the 10K which decides it all. just curious. T.J. Fry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: T.J. Fry                    :"If a child asks why it is raining, a cute Clemson University          : thing to tell them is "God is crying", and                             : tell them is " It was probably something                              : that you did".-DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handy :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

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#include(obliglitory_flame_bait) To get back to the subject, do people really think drafting is a problem for the age group racers?  I haven’t seen it in any of the races I have done (8 years now), and I really don’t think drafting is that big of a problem.   dan

In my customary middle-of-the-age-groupers position in most races , I’ve seen very little (if any) *intentional* drafting.  There’s been quite a bit of unavoidable bunching up on narrow roads, however.  A perfect example is the Santa Cruz Sentinel triathlon.  The bike is primarily on the Coast Highway (CA Highway 1), which is open to car traffic during the race.  This leaves racers with just the shoulder/bike lane, and it’s nearly impossible to avoid "accidental" drafting out there (unless you like to court disaster and ride in the middle of the road, traffic be damned!).  Getting around slower riders is a challenge, to say the least, especially when they’re bunched up. It’s probably not as crowded up front where the pros/competitive racers are, so maybe you see more "intentional" drafting up there.  Among us mid-packers, though, I couldn’t tell the difference between someone "cheating" and someone who’s just stuck!     Tricia "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little     further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place."                    —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)

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Again, though, this assumes that there was an worldwide age-group council or voice which could speak to the ITU in a unified manner which appeared to the ITU unified, strong, and reasonable, instead of (from the ITU’s point of view), fragmented, troublesome, bitchy.

To my understanding, the ITU is the world organization to which the NGBs belong.  The ITU should be soliciting the opinions of all the NGBs for concerns.  Or am I wrong?  Is the ITU for elites only or for the entire sport. Todd Jensen                                   o AT&T Bell Labs              ___^o_    __o    <| Naperville, IL                      _ <_    _

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I readers,         Yes its true and i’m pissed.         This year in the 1995 world Triathlon cup circut in the Auckland NZ race is legalising drafting.         This is going to ruin the sport.Its an indivdual sport and bring drafting in is going to make the race very unusal.

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: I readers, :       Yes its true and i’m pissed. :       This year in the 1995 world Triathlon cup circut in the : Auckland NZ race is legalising drafting. :       This is going to ruin the sport.Its an indivdual sport and bring : drafting in is going to make the race very unusal. I wonder how the Ironman series will deal with the drafting issue.  That series, and especially the Hawaii race have always been viewed as the pinacle of _individual_ human endurance.  At 6′6" and 240 lbs, I might charge drafting fees for all of those who could fit in my air-wake.

The legal drafting is pretty much limited to Les McDonald’s world cup races and the limited field of pros that follow that circuit.  Ironman has nothing to do with these rule changes. Fortunately, the only world cup race left in the US is National City in Cleveland. Though there is talk of another one starting in Pacific Grove, California.

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Bicycle racing here in Canada (and the US) requires a licence.

True. Before you can get a licence, you have to take a course which covers things like packriding.

Not in the USA.  I’m a USCF member and never took any sort of course.  In fact, I don’t even know of any that are offered (through USCF). —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (303) 229-3117

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 Large packs of athletes on aerobars is a scary thought, take it from a former USCF racer, when one person in the middle of a pack goes down its a mess, would be worse with persons unskilled in pack riding ,and using aerobars.

I agree! This is precisely why I stopped racing USCF as well and took up triathlon instead.  I loved racing my bike, but I hated the constant risks of racing in the pack.  I was lucky never to have been involved in any crashes, but I saw enough and had enough narrow escapes to convince me it wasn’t worth it.  No matter how perfect your own bike handling skills may be, you have no guarantee of the skill of your fellow racers (and I saw plenty who scared the daylights outta me!).  Not only that, but equipment failures in mid-pack are equally hazardous.  Ever seen someone roll a tire while negotiating a tight criterium corner in the middle of the peloton? It is *not* pretty. I have the utmost respect for pure bike racers; I simply didn’t have the guts to run the risks long enough to reach the level where bike handling skills are consistently high.  If drafting and packs become legal in tris, I’ll continue to race, but I may very well choose to keep my own races "pure" time trials by simply avoiding the packs.  Unfortunately, this probably isn’t an option for professionals and competitive amateurs who race to win or place (I do not fit into this category!).  However, if drafting does become legal, aerobars should be banned.  I would go nowhere *near* a pack of riders in aerobars— that’s suicidal. It’s a pity that there are enough bozos out there who don’t care about the rules that we have to deal with this issue this way.  One of the things I’ve always liked best about triathlon is its "honesty"; your results depend entirely upon *you*.  Hard work and dedication result in fast times and good finishes, no two ways about it.  Unless you cheat…..   My $.02. Tri hard– Tricia "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place." —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the utmost respect for pure bike racers; I simply didn’t have the guts to run the risks long enough to reach the level where bike handling skills are consistently high.  If drafting and packs become legal in tris, I’ll continue to race, but I may very well choose to keep my own races "pure" time trials by simply avoiding the packs.  Unfortunately, this probably isn’t an option for professionals and competitive amateurs who race to win or place (I do not fit into this category!).  However, if drafting does become legal, aerobars should be banned.  I would go nowhere *near* a pack of riders in aerobars— that’s suicidal. It’s a pity that there are enough bozos out there who don’t care about the rules that we have to deal with this issue this way.  One of the things I’ve always liked best about triathlon is its "honesty"; your results depend entirely upon *you*.  Hard work and dedication result in fast times and good finishes, no two ways about it.  Unless you cheat…..  

I think that one of the many virtues of the triathlon culture is that spirit of individual effort as opposed to the pack mentality of the roadies. Again,though, we should keep in mind that legal drafting, banning aerobars etc. is a pro problem, and mainly an ITU-inspired world cup series/olympic plan.  In the US this translates to one relatively obscure race (Cleveland). Not a very popular age-group race and this year even the US pros yanked their championship event from this location. Must be telling us something. Also, if drafting makes such good TV, and is the look of the future as the ITU says, then why (in the US)  isn’t bicycle racing broadcast on the networks more often?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep in mind too that in Europe and Australia where this sport is enjoying huge marketing success, drafting is eliminated from the picture by legalizing it.The France Iron Tour was a huge success, drafting legal. Tooheys series down in Australia, yup drafting. Lots of $$$ were talking about. But the best thing was, it changed the strategy of the race (ahh, a breath of fresh air). Nobody benefitted at someone else’s expense. Maybe Big Ears or some other Aussies can give us the scoop on how entertaining the Australian draft-legal series really is, and if it is indeed a commercial success? It may be. We don’t see it in the US.

From a spectator point of view I think that drafting makes the racing just a little more closer and therefore makes it a little more of a spectator sport. (more spectators, more people seeing the sponsers name and therefore more sponsers who want their name being seen). On the other side of the coin I prefer to see the non-spectator oriented events (such as the ironman events) to be left as non-drafting events so that all competators race on their ability and nobody get disadvantaged. Simon (AJ) Haigh P.s. Did Brad Bevan win again yesterday? I missed it. JJ

| I used to be undecided,  | Simon Haigh, Professional Lunatic          |  Disclaimer: Both me and my boss have absolutely no idea what I’m doing

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  P.s. Did Brad Bevan win again yesterday? I missed it. Nope, Welchie (yay!) slayed him in the last two run laps and ended up at least 100m ahead at the end.  Hamish Carter came third. In the women’s guess who?  But there was a right stuff up with indicating to competitors when they should’ve turned of the main track to the finish. This caused 5 to be disqualified for not doing enough laps! Sian (3rd) and Jackie (2nd) basically had to get their guidance from the spectators, Sian almost went for another.  At least 3 went in before Jackie, they were DQ’d.  When Jackie went past the turnoff, she was VERY CONTROLLED in sputtering – WHAT’S THE DEAL??? when she saw 3 others on their way in when she _knew_ she was second.  I was at the turn off If the organisers can’t get their act together, forget it!  The athletes can’t be expected to remember things like this when they’re going flat out. Miles Stewart was there for the first time, so someone must’ve made up Re: Miles last week at Geelong, he was out of the water with the lead group, but threw up (literally) on the bike and had to go easy from then on.  Hey, I ran faster than him (whheeee!!).  I had a chat with him yesterday. I can’t remember a sport where the elite group are as relaxed and not up themselves as triathlon.  Michellie was talking to anyone who came by.  In fact you couldn’t tell the athletes from the (huge) crowd, it was one big happy family. More on the uselessness of the bike leg and the stupid camera motorbike later.. Right now I have 3 rolls of film to be developed .. Maybe on WWW later —   Paul Menon,   Dept of Computer Science,   Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology,   124 Latrobe Street,   Melbourne 3001,   Victoria, Australia.           ph:     +61 3 660 3209/2348 ICBM:   lat 37^ 50′ long 145^ 0′E fax:    +61 3 662 1617 WWW:    http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/Staffing/TSG/pnm.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the utmost respect for pure bike racers; I simply didn’t have the guts to run the risks long enough to reach the level where bike handling skills are consistently high….  I would go nowhere *near* a pack of riders in aerobars— that’s suicidal. It’s a pity that there are enough bozos out there who don’t care about the rules…  Unless you cheat…..   I think that one of the many virtues of the triathlon culture is that spirit of individual effort as opposed to the pack mentality of the roadies. Again,though, we should keep in mind that legal drafting, banning aerobars etc. is a pro problem, and mainly an ITU-inspired world cup series/olympic plan.  In the US this translates to one relatively obscure race (Cleveland). Not a very popular age-group race and this year even the US pros yanked their championship event from this location. Must be telling us something.

Here’s a Monday morning thought…  I agree that drafting is a pro RACING problem.  Let’s make an extreme assumption that 80-90% of all pro races are draft-legal by 1998. Also another safe assumption is that the majority of televised races will be/have pro races (or races featuring pros).  Now let’s turn the clock forward to 1998.  How many *potential* newbies are going to know the difference between pro-drafting triathlon and age-group time-trial triathlon.   Now for all of us (who-once-were-newbies-too) that came from non-cycling backgrounds, would you be more or less likely to venture into triathlon thinking you would have to do pack bicycling racing?   I don’t think you’d have to go to far out on a limb to say that the number of newbies would definitely start to decrease– it definitely would have made me think twice or at least take a couple of years to learn pack riding.  My assertion is that while the ITU claims that drafting is only of pro RACING conern, I submit that it is a triathlon as a whole concern (especially from the perspective of developing the first-timers in the age-group ranks). Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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