Question:

Endless Pools Inc. Partners with the World Triathlon Corporation The Creator of the World’s Finest Counter-Current Swimming Pool Signs a Multi-Year Sponsorship and Licensing Agreement with Ironman Endless Pools and World Triathlon Corporation, owner of the Ironman Triathlon are proud to announce a multi-year partnership, making the Endless Pool the official Ironman counter-current swimming machine. The Hawaiian Ironman is the pinnacle of Triathlete competitions. Every year more than 50,000 top athletes around the world struggle for one of the 1,500 coveted starting slots at Kona. There, competitors face rough water, strong currents and fluctuating temperatures as they battle the 2.4-mile open water swim. It is a brutal-indeed overwhelming-first leg. And no training tool in the world prepares them better than the Endless Pool. The Endless Pool’s smooth current challenges even the fastest swimmers, and unlike standard lap pools, forces swimmers to maintain a consistent pace. The underwater mirror provides constant, immediate feedback. Best of all, the Endless Pool can be installed in virtually any home. At 8′ x 15′ it’s smaller and lighter than an SUV, plus its modular design allows components to fit through any doorway and stairway. The convenient at home location saves precious hours every week in commuting time. According to Ken Strominger, executive vice-president of marketing/licensing for WTC, Endless Pools, Inc. brought demo pools to Ironman competitions in New York, Florida and Hawaii in 2001- and the response from athletes was overwhelming. Over 1,000 athletes swam in the Endless Pools at these events. Many had the luxury of seeing themselves swim for the first time – an amazing and often humbling experience. Plus, Endless Pools, Inc. shot underwater video that each competitor could take home for detailed stroke analysis. In fact, Endless Pools, Inc. has produced a video of the 2001 Hawaii Ironman in Kona. With athlete interviews, coaching tips and gorgeous shots of the island and the race, it’s a must-see for any committed Triathlete. According to James Murdock, Founder and President, Endless Pools, Inc. plans to attend Ironman competitions in Utah, Wisconsin, Florida and of course the Hawaiian Ironman in 2002. In partnership with the World Triathlon Corporation, Endless Pools, Inc. will also introduce the limited edition "Ironman Pool" designed specifically for Triathletes. With larger dimensions, an even stronger current and numerous special features, the pool will help slice minutes off athletes’ race time at Kona or anywhere. With over 5,000 pools installed throughout the USA and the world, Endless Pools Inc. is rapidly becoming a fixture in home fitness and training.  And with the coming launch of the Ironman Pool, it will soon become an indispensable tool for every serious Triathlete. If you plan to attend the Ironman competitions in Utah, Wisconsin, Florida or Hawaii, stop by the Endless Pool booth. And bring your racing suit. http://www.endlesspools.com/triathlon/index.html For more information, contact Robyn McLeod, World Triathlon Corporation, (727) 942-4767, ext 205, or Inc., (610) 497-8676 ext. 218, or

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SPAM buy an ad tightwad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Endless Pools, Inc. Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Endless Pools Inc. Partners with the World Triathlon Corporation The Creator of the World’s Finest Counter-Current Swimming Pool Signs a Multi-Year Sponsorship and Licensing Agreement with Ironman Endless Pools and World Triathlon Corporation, owner of the Ironman Triathlon are proud to announce a multi-year partnership, making the Endless Pool the official Ironman counter-current swimming machine. The Hawaiian Ironman is the pinnacle of Triathlete competitions. Every year more than 50,000 top athletes around the world struggle for one of the 1,500 coveted starting slots at Kona. There, competitors face rough water, strong currents and fluctuating temperatures as they battle the 2.4-mile open water swim. It is a brutal-indeed overwhelming-first leg. And no training tool in the world prepares them better than the Endless Pool. The Endless Pool’s smooth current challenges even the fastest swimmers, and unlike standard lap pools, forces swimmers to maintain a consistent pace. The underwater mirror provides constant, immediate feedback. Best of all, the Endless Pool can be installed in virtually any home. At 8′ x 15′ it’s smaller and lighter than an SUV, plus its modular design allows components to fit through any doorway and stairway. The convenient at home location saves precious hours every week in commuting time. According to Ken Strominger, executive vice-president of marketing/licensing for WTC, Endless Pools, Inc. brought demo pools to Ironman competitions in New York, Florida and Hawaii in 2001- and the response from athletes was overwhelming. Over 1,000 athletes swam in the Endless Pools at these events. Many had the luxury of seeing themselves swim for the first time – an amazing and often humbling experience. Plus, Endless Pools, Inc. shot underwater video that each competitor could take home for detailed stroke analysis. In fact, Endless Pools, Inc. has produced a video of the 2001 Hawaii Ironman in Kona. With athlete interviews, coaching tips and gorgeous shots of the island and the race, it’s a must-see for any committed Triathlete. According to James Murdock, Founder and President, Endless Pools, Inc. plans to attend Ironman competitions in Utah, Wisconsin, Florida and of course the Hawaiian Ironman in 2002. In partnership with the World Triathlon Corporation, Endless Pools, Inc. will also introduce the limited edition "Ironman Pool" designed specifically for Triathletes. With larger dimensions, an even stronger current and numerous special features, the pool will help slice minutes off athletes’ race time at Kona or anywhere. With over 5,000 pools installed throughout the USA and the world, Endless Pools Inc. is rapidly becoming a fixture in home fitness and training.  And with the coming launch of the Ironman Pool, it will soon become an indispensable tool for every serious Triathlete. If you plan to attend the Ironman competitions in Utah, Wisconsin, Florida or Hawaii, stop by the Endless Pool booth. And bring your racing suit. http://www.endlesspools.com/triathlon/index.html For more information, contact Robyn McLeod, World Triathlon Corporation, (727) 942-4767, ext 205, or Inc., (610) 497-8676 ext. 218, or

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Question:

I’ll make  a report ASAP!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Feels good, doesn’t it? Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon And so the addiction begins…. Congrats! Welcome to the club! 1:24:56 thank u to everibody who helped me!!!! Bruno

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And so the addiction begins…. Congrats! Welcome to the club! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1:24:56 thank u to everibody who helped me!!!! Bruno

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Feels good, doesn’t it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon And so the addiction begins…. Congrats! Welcome to the club! 1:24:56 thank u to everibody who helped me!!!! Bruno

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1:24:56 thank u to everibody who helped me!!!! Bruno

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Congratulations Bruno! You do know that you owe us a blow by blow report though, don’t you? The race report of your first race is an obligatory submission for RSTrs. How you felt, what you encountered, how you did, etc.. etc… When’s the next one? <g Jack 1:24:56 thank u to everibody who helped me!!!! Bruno

Before you buy.

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Question:

Hello. I had an ACL reconstruction last year, and find that my knee yells at me when I run too much (e.g., consecutive days, hard days, long days).  My knee coos when I cycle or swim. I am considering training on non- or low-impact machines one or maybe two days per week to reduce the stress, but I still want to do some run-specific training (my worst event).  My question is, which machines most closely approximate running — which are more perfect substitutes for the real thing?  Eliptical runners?  Stairmasters?  Precor?  Body Trec? Please advise…. Cheers!

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I have been told by many people that there is no exact substitute for running (some claim that even a treadmill is a poor substitute).  I do, however, a lot of cross training in the winter.  Probably the two closest-to-running exercises I do are the Stairmaster and the ski machine.  Neither of these puts much stress on my knees.  I have also been told by many people that the elliptical trainer is a good no- impact substitute for running.  While different muscle groups are stressed in each of these exercises, whatever form you choose will assuredly train the most important muscle – your heart. Good luck with the knees. Kurt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I had an ACL reconstruction last year, and find that my knee yells at me when I run too much (e.g., consecutive days, hard days, long days). My knee coos when I cycle or swim. I am considering training on non- or low-impact machines one or maybe two days per week to reduce the stress, but I still want to do some run-specific training (my worst event).  My question is, which machines most closely approximate running — which are more perfect substitutes for the real thing?  Eliptical runners?  Stairmasters?  Precor?  Body Trec? Please advise…. Cheers!

– Kurt Estes http://kestes.homepage.com/Triathlon/tri_links.htm Before you buy.

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Question:

You’re lucky you’re university pool is empty: I have to share it with a lot of old folks (retirees I guess) who have nothing else to do (I’m envious !) and so there’s sometimes 6 or 7 people per lane.

Man, you have to change pools. 6 or 7 people? Doing different things? I can’t see a decent workout being done when slaloming around people like that. The lifeguard in my pool knows that I won’t allow more than one person in the lane with me at one time. I hope you can find a better place to train Ron. I guess I’ve got it pretty good here. I train mid-morning at Homebush, in Sydney. The complex has 2 x 50m pools. The competition pool (when not actually being used for competition) is always fully laned (10 full-size lanes)

Now this sounds like a beautiful setup. Not one, but 2 olympic-sized pools. I envy you Mike. Although the pool that I go to is very decent and not usually crowded, more oftn than not at some point in my workout I usually have to share the lane with one other person. And it is only 25 meters long. Well, I guess I can practice my flip turns more often. Still, I’m pretty satisfied with the setup I have now. It’s not ideal, but it’s definitely acceptable.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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(Charlotte) writes: I need some help with swimming.  I read the Total Immersion book and was psyched to get into the pool for the first time for some laps. I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.

As a lifeguard, and looking at your screen name, your swimming probably had less to do with the staring than you might think ; ) Butch

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I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts. Welcome!

Yeah. This is what happened to me. Your doomed Keep plugging away at the swimming, cos there is nothing like the buzz of really shifting in the water for the first time. Youll find if&when you improve that sweet spot feeling will come and go, but it becomes more frequent and longer each time you train. Brian P " newbie " Casey.

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My advice is: -Get used to be in the pool, don’t make any expectations to swim 1000-2000 yards, see it as a relaxation to the other workouts you do! -If you have a local triathlon club it gives a lot to train with others;you get tips and maybe also a social reason to train! -If you race chose a competition at start with short distance for the swim part! -Don’t give up, it takes time to become a decent swimmer! Good luck! Gerry  Homepage

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I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.   Since I use the (free) University pool that is vacant most of the time, I can’t really see hooking up with any veterans either.

Charlotte’s received lots of other good advice so I won’t offer any more of that here, but just want to chime in with the others who have said, I AM SO JEALOUS!!  An *empty* university pool— nirvana!  Charlotte, what university is this??  An uncrowded 50-meter lap swim pool is ambrosia, it’s the stuff of dreams.  Sigh.   However, I must say that there might yet be some hope ’round this neck of the woods because they’re currently building an additional pool over at the aquatics center on campus.  Now we just have to hope that they can staff it adequately with lifeguards so that the additional capacity actually does some GOOD!   Pea green with envy— — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts. I am not interested in spending a lot of money on coaches, camps, etc. since I haven’t even really decided to take the plunge into triathloning. If I can’t get the swimming going it’ll never happen. Since I use the (free) University pool that is vacant most of the time, I can’t really see hooking up with any veterans either. Does your University have a swim team? Or a Physical Education/Kinesiology degree? Often times, there are some assistant coaches/very good swimmers in the degree programs that are willing to help. Also, if your Univ. has a gym, they often have boards where one can advertise for workout partners, etc. All you need is a swimmer that has a talent for helping others with their stroke work.

Great suggestion.  This is how I learned to swim and got into triathlon. The Phys Ed department offered a 1 credit hour swimming "course".  It was essentially a university sponsored Masters team.  Okay, it was a bit more legitimate than that because they used us as guinea pigs by doing a series of tests on us at the beginning and end of the semester.  The coach/teacher wrote all the workouts and made us keep a log so that our progress could be tracked.  She even video taped our stroke to help us improve.  I took that course pass/fail every semester for about 4 years. Seems to me that even without this sort of class, a university is the perfect place for a Masters group or at least a swim club of some sort. Free or cheap access to a pool on campus and plenty of ex-high school swimmers.  Check it out, Charlotte, you just might find such a group.  And don’t be intimidated by all the real swimmers.  Groups like this usually welcome all comers. — Stacy Hills Reston, VA

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Hello, Charlotte: My  experience several years ago was similar.  Lots of good advice has already been given, so I’ll give just a few observations.  Feeling comfortable while swimming takes a combination of skill and fitness — the fitness will come with practice (and quicker than you’ll expect), but the skill will take longer.  I found that the Total Immersion program was somewhat helpful, but after you start feeling more comfortable in the water, the Total Immersion program doesn’t give much help in actual stroke mechanics — and its hard to develop a good stroke when you don’t know what it’s supposed to look like, or why.  An hour with a master’s swim coach (or the university swim coach, or a team member, or an assistant) will get you specific feedback that will go a LONG way in allowing you to start with good stroke mechanics from the beginning, increase your confidence, and keep you from developing bad stroke habits that will cause you injury, and slow your progress.  Check back intermittantly for more pointers.  Go to the university library, or the P.E. department and read books on freestyle strokes if you can’t find the coach-type person.  If you’ve a friend that has a half-hour and a video camera, bribe him or her to video you from the front and the side while you swim a few laps.  You’ll see the areas where you need to change your approach in ways that you can’t identify yourself while in the water. Promise yourself that you’ll give it 10 sessions, and you’ll be hooked and feeling much more comfortable.   Best of luck! Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts. I need some help with swimming.  I read the Total Immersion book and was psyched to get into the pool for the first time for some laps. I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.  I miserably churn out 250 yards and could have done more except that I was so downhearted.  I felt that I was trying to do everything at once (make my body l-o-n-g, breathe from both sides, swim downhill, etc.) and succeeded at nothing. Also, those 250 yards were a lot harder to come by than I thought they would be. Any suggestions?  I will try to focus on one drill at a time but it is VERY hard when I can feel the rest of my, ahem, form, go down the tubes. I am not interested in spending a lot of money on coaches, camps, etc. since I haven’t even really decided to take the plunge into triathloning. If I can’t get the swimming going it’ll never happen. Since I use the (free) University pool that is vacant most of the time, I can’t really see hooking up with any veterans either. Any suggestions, please??? Charlotte

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You’re lucky you’re university pool is empty: I have to share it with a lot of old folks (retirees I guess) who have nothing else to do (I’m envious !) and so there’s sometimes 6 or 7 people per lane.

Tell me about it!! I mean, I don’t mind sharing the pool, but – SHARE THE POOL!! Only half the pool at my local Y is set aside for laps, and *still* there’s more water walkers in each lane than swimmers. I never woulda thought 8mos back when I started swimming that I’d ever have to swim a slalom around others. TriathRon

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I guess I’ve got it pretty good here. I train mid-morning at Homebush, in Sydney. The complex has 2 x 50m pools. The competition pool (when not actually being used for competition) is always fully laned (10 full-size lanes) and the notice at the entrance states in no uncertain terms "lap swimming only" — each lane has boards indicating what is acceptable in each lane and everyone seems to play by the rules. The "training pool" as it’s called, has 3 lanes allocated without lane-ropes — for recreational swimming. The remainder is all laned and again with boards indicating what’s expected. It’s only when competitions are on that we all have to squeeze into the training pool, but normally I can do my entire session in the competition pool without having to share the lane. — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re lucky you’re university pool is empty: I have to share it with a lot of old folks (retirees I guess) who have nothing else to do (I’m envious !) and so there’s sometimes 6 or 7 people per lane. Tell me about it!! I mean, I don’t mind sharing the pool, but – SHARE THE POOL!! Only half the pool at my local Y is set aside for laps, and *still* there’s more water walkers in each lane than swimmers. I never woulda thought 8mos back when I started swimming that I’d ever have to swim a slalom around others. TriathRon

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I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts.

Welcome! I need some help with swimming.  I read the Total Immersion book and was psyched to get into the pool for the first time for some laps. I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.  I miserably churn out 250 yards and could have done more except that I was so downhearted.  I felt that I was trying to do everything at once (make my body l-o-n-g, breathe from both sides, swim downhill, etc.) and succeeded at nothing. Also, those 250 yards were a lot harder to come by than I thought they would be.

That’s probably because you havent swum a lot before. Once you get some workouts under your belt, things get a little easier. Any suggestions?  I will try to focus on one drill at a time but it is VERY hard when I can feel the rest of my, ahem, form, go down the tubes.

Use flotation devices. For example, use the leg floats to concentrate on arm drills, use a kickboard extended out in front of you for kick drills, etc. I am not interested in spending a lot of money on coaches, camps, etc. since I haven’t even really decided to take the plunge into triathloning.   If I can’t get the swimming going it’ll never happen. Since I use the (free) University pool that is vacant most of the time, I can’t really see hooking up with any veterans either.

Does your University have a swim team? Or a Physical Education/Kinesiology degree? Often times, there are some assistant coaches/very good swimmers in the degree programs that are willing to help. Also, if your Univ. has a gym, they often have boards where one can advertise for workout partners, etc. All you need is a swimmer that has a talent for helping others with their stroke work. Charlotte

Once again, welcome Charlotte! John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"

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I was in your situation 3 years ago… I could hardly make it a length of the pool swimming freestyle (crawl).  Luckily I could swim breaststroke forever, so my first season I did breaststroke for all my races. I also started doing the drills in the Total Immersion book, and they helped me a lot — after a few weeks of practice I had something like a freestyle stroke, and after a many months more I was able to swim a mile freestyle without stopping. I’m still working on it, and believe it or not, swimming can be fun!  I recently took the Total Immersion workshop and that helped a lot.  It got me past things that just the book & video tapes couldn’t. Having an empty pool is a luxury, so enjoy it!  Also, you probably don’t need to work on endurance so much… form is much more important when starting out with swimming. Seattle

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Work on one thing at a time.  I am an ex-state champion swimmer and still to this day have to do lots of drill to keep my technique up.  I usually go into a workout thinking, today i am going to work just on my midphase or recovery, etc. you can only work on one thing at once and then things will start to come together as you improve technique. hope this helps

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My advice, for what it’s worth — stick on a set of fins and practice those basic TI balance drills (especially the "glide on your side" ones) until you learn to relax and actually enjoy the experience. Trying to rip through all the drills and learn it all at once is what made it hard for me. I found I needed to slow it down and "fully" learn one thing at a time — and fins made it just that much easier to work it out in the beginning — however, you eventually have to wean yourself off them. — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts. I need some help with swimming.  I read the Total Immersion book and was psyched to get into the pool for the first time for some laps. I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.  I miserably churn out 250 yards and could have done more except that I was so downhearted.  I felt that I was trying to do everything at once (make my body l-o-n-g, breathe from both sides, swim downhill, etc.) and succeeded at nothing. Also, those 250 yards were a lot harder to come by than I thought they would be. Any suggestions?  I will try to focus on one drill at a time but it is VERY hard when I can feel the rest of my, ahem, form, go down the tubes. I am not interested in spending a lot of money on coaches, camps, etc. since I haven’t even really decided to take the plunge into triathloning. If I can’t get the swimming going it’ll never happen. Since I use the (free) University pool that is vacant most of the time, I can’t really see hooking up with any veterans either. Any suggestions, please??? Charlotte

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Just another tri person who started where you are and now does Ironman distance (albeit slowly).  Keep it up, do the TI drills, and you will find it easier to go the distance. –Lee Crumbaugh (Tri-Hard)

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I did the total immersion video drills one-at-a-time and in two months (swimming 6X a week) I went from not being able to swim at all to my first sprint tri (okay, I hyperventilated on the swim but did a half-mile in 16 minutes and most importantly made it to my bike without drowning!)  I just signed up for a master’s class a few weeks ago.  I am the least able swimmer by far, but the people are kind and helpful – I am improving by leaps and bounds!  I’ve even learned how to butterfly (which believe it or not really helps with your freestyle stroke.) Good luck. The Phys Ed department offered a 1 credit hour swimming "course".  It was essentially a university sponsored Masters team.  Check it out, Charlotte,

you just might find such a group.  And – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – don’t be intimidated by all the real swimmers.  Groups like this usually welcome all comers.

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Charlotte, Everyone has given great advice. IMHO the key being keep at it and go at your own pace. I found it helpful to concentrate on intervals. Try swimming 250 yds worth of 25 or 50 yd intervals and rest 20 to 30 seconds between each one.  Keep good form and concentrate on one thing each workout (i.e.. swim downhill, glide on your side, etc.) After a couple of workouts  increase the number of intervals or cut the rest time by 5 or 10 seconds. After you a few weeks add one or two 75s etc. Your one step ahead of me when I first started, I didn’t know about RST until after I stumbled through my first sprint distance. Good Luck Jeff

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I know this will go against the grain around here, but for now,forget everything you read in the TI book and just get to the pool and swim some laps in your own less than perfect way.  Work up to at least a half mile without resting, to get accustomed to it.

Hmmm…  interesting.  The way I figure it, 1/2 mile is about 35 laps? (25 yards per lap, 880 yards per 1/2 mile).  That doesn’t seem too unreachable. You also have to convince your inner self that you can keep swimming, that you’re not going to collapse and drown.  If you’re miserable, you haven’t overcome the natural instincts of a land mammal yet.

Yes, even though I KNEW I could stand up at any time in the 4 foot deep water, there was something in the back of my head whispering "you could drown, you’re too tired…"  I will not have that luxury in open water, so you’re right, I better get used to it. Thanks. Charlotte

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I need some help with swimming.  I read the Total Immersion book and was psyched to get into the pool for the first time for some laps. I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.  I miserably churn out 250 yards and could have done more except that I was so downhearted.  I felt that I was trying to do everything at once (make my body l-o-n-g, breathe from both sides, swim downhill, etc.) and succeeded at nothing. Also, those 250 yards were a lot harder to come by than I thought they would be. Any suggestions, please???

        I know this will go against the grain around here, but for now, forget everything you read in the TI book and just get to the pool and swim some laps in your own less than perfect way.  Work up to at least a half mile without resting, to get accustomed to it.  I’m not a swim coach, but I teach SCUBA, and a lot of the professional literature I read deals with the psychology of learning to dive, much of which applies to any aquatic activity.  The water is not your natural environment.  It is inherently hostile to a land based organism.  There are several changes, like prolonged exercise where you cannot just breathe naturally.  We also have a built in reflex to be upright in the water that must be overcome.  You also have to convince your inner self that you can keep swimming, that you’re not going to collapse and drown.  If you’re miserable, you haven’t overcome the natural instincts of a land mammal yet.         Once I had gotten used to the idea of spending an hour in the pool doing doing more than just goofing off, I found it far easier to do the TI drills and improve my form.  Also, once the lifeguards have seen you swim a half mile a few times, they are much less likely to interpret some of the TI balance drills as the behavior of a non-swimmer in distress.         There are all sorts of sophisticated tools for imporving one’s running form as well, but we’ve all been running in some form or another since we were toddlers.  That’s not the case with swimming.

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Any suggestions, please??? Charlotte

My suggestion? Don’t worry about it and enjoy tri’s at whatever level you can. I’m a lousy swimmer. I’ve always been a lousy swimmer. I was lousy when I started 15 years ago and I’m lousy now. Pathetic, even. But you know what? I don’t really care anymore. <g  I still love triathlon and I’ve even managed to do an Ironman the last two years. I’m not saying not to try to improve. Just accept whatever level you manage to get to and don’t get obsessed about it. Mike "from the back of the pack" Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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<big snip I AM SO JEALOUS!!  An *empty* university pool— nirvana!  Charlotte, what university is this??  An uncrowded 50-meter lap swim pool is ambrosia, it’s the stuff of dreams.  Sigh.  

Yes, it was empty or close to it the few times I’ve been there.  The hours are pretty awful but from your posts I should be thankful for what I have. If someone lives in central Ohio, wants a _very_ newbie swimming partner and access to this pristene pool for free, send me an email.  Be forewarned, the email address is munged. Charlotte P.S.  Thanks for all the great advice!  I called the pool today and I can use the kick boards, fins, etc. for free!  We’ll see how it goes…

Response:

Any suggestions?  I will try to focus on one drill at a time but it is VERY hard when I can feel the rest of my, ahem, form, go down the tubes.

I feel your pain.  I’ve been doing triathlons since 1991, am well acquainted with all the Total Immersion stuff, and still am one of the world’s worst pool swimmers.  (Just ask the coach of my master’s team!)  I’ll tell you what, psychologically, convinced me that I could actually do triathlons.  I bought a triathlon wetsuit, and started wearing it occasionally when swimming in the pool.  I still remember as though it were yesterday the amazing feeling I had when wearing the wetsuit for the first time.  Hey, this makes swimming easy and fun!  I can float!  I’m not getting as tired as before!  I’m much faster!  That feeling gave me the motivation to keep trying to get to the point where I could swim like that without the suit.  I haven’t ever really succeeded at that goal but hey, I’m still doing triathlons and having fun 8 years later.  (And most triathlons let you wear a wetsuit anyway–I wouldn’t consider for a second doing an open-water swim without one) Good luck! –Steve Gregg

Response:

Charlotte At the risk of repeating what others have said: 1. take it one step at a time – drils to work on specific parts of the storke 2. don’t do drills when tired – you’ll just reinforce bad habits 3. persevere. Swimming is a co-ordination and balance sport. You might liken learning it to learning to ski, row, or on a more sedentary level, drive a manual (stickshift) car. All of them require you to make fine body movements in a particular order with a particular timing. It’s not going to come together overnight, but it won’t take as long as you think. Good Luck – aim high Greg Banner

Response:

Charlotte,     Like you, I wanted to compete in triathlon, but was (and still am) a weak swimmer.  For the first couple years in the sport, I limited myself to 1/4 mi. swims because anything longer and I’d be so far behind…  However, the Ironman bug bit and I needed at least enough endurance to swim 2.4 miles within 2:20.  As it worked out, I began swimming with a group of younger swimmers and this helped me develop the endurance (if not speed) that I needed.    Now I’ve done an IM swim in wetsuit (1:30) and without (1:45).  I still have a ways to go, but the perseverance allowed me the opportunity to explore new areas in triathlon.     My advice is to stick with it; the endurance and efficiency improve with practice.  Swim with others if you can; this really helps with the motivation.  Finally, set swimming goals to fuel your motivation.     Good luck. Jim Bruckart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts. I need some help with swimming. Any suggestions, please???

Response:

Any suggestions, please???

Charlotte, I was once exactly where you are now and got some great advice right here on RST. The best piece of advice I can give you is to stop when your form begins to deteriorate, take a break, catch your breath, think about what you are working on, and then start again. Also don’t worry about what you look like or what people think of you, that is only counterproductive. Swimming is something that you must simply stick with and do regularly and over time you will improve. It is also very important that you not worry about how fast you are going. At this point just go slow, relaxed, and easy, and work on form. A pull buoy can be a great tool to allow you to concentrate only on your breathing and/or arm stroke. Sorry about the rambling, It’s the end of a long day. I Hope this helps                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

Response:

I am not a triathlete.  I have not yet admitted to myself that I am considering a triathlon, despite my running and biking every week. Somehow I find myself lurking on RST everyday reading your posts. I need some help with swimming.  I read the Total Immersion book and was psyched to get into the pool for the first time for some laps. I go to the University pool where I work and find myself the only person there with 2 lifeguards staring at me.  I miserably churn out 250 yards and could have done more except that I was so downhearted.  I felt that I was trying to do everything at once (make my body l-o-n-g, breathe from both sides, swim downhill, etc.) and succeeded at nothing. Also, those 250 yards were a lot harder to come by than I thought they would be. Any suggestions?  I will try to focus on one drill at a time but it is VERY hard when I can feel the rest of my, ahem, form, go down the tubes. I am not interested in spending a lot of money on coaches, camps, etc. since I haven’t even really decided to take the plunge into triathloning.   If I can’t get the swimming going it’ll never happen. Since I use the (free) University pool that is vacant most of the time, I can’t really see hooking up with any veterans either. Any suggestions, please??? Charlotte

Response:

Question:

No.  It means an easier run is easier than a harder run.  No matter what shape you’re in, it takes longer to recover from a long, hard run than a short, easy run. "Recovery rate" to resting rate may be a better measure. When I run less than half my average training run, I might recover immediately in only a minute or two; tens of minutes for an average training run; hours for a long, hard run.  Means I’m fit for the shorter distances, but not for the longer.

– -Ray Charbonneau The MITRE Corporation

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately. There are a number of factors that can affect resting heart rate, some fitness-related, some not. While a change (decline) in resting HR over time can be an indication of a training effect, that is not always the case. Despite anecdotal reports of athletes with super low resting HRs, resting HR has a fairly weak correlation to fitness level, and really should not be a consideration. Rick Gerwin

And at the same time, a higher RHR does NOT mean a person ISN’T fit.  I – and another triathlete I know (David Barclay), both have higher rates than just about all the other atheletes around us. I’m a Bopper, but David’s time for an Ironman is in the 12 hour range, I believe. Mike "Hummingbird heart" Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

Response:

I don’t really know if resting heart rate is a measure of fitness.  My heart rate is in the 90+ range and have found that when I quit smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee it went down to 64.   I know having a lower heart rate is healthier on your heart and the reduction in your heart rate is probably due to the strengthening and better efficiency of the heart from your exercising. Sorry, if I replicated previous posts didn’t have time to read them all. KR

Response:

        Resting HR might be an indicator of fitness.  It can also be a sign of overtraining.  it is not unusual for RHR to decrease when getting more fit—or to increase when less fit after being fit.         However, some people just have lower heart rates despite being couch potatoes…..         I would guess that your change in HR could be a result of detraining. On a side note:  If you are going to run track or even next year for XC, do some running now–run easy, but keep running regularly if not frequently. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most medical resources refer to a resting heart rate below 60 as sinus bradycardia.  Some highly trained athletes in good health have resting rates below 40. Seems there are plenty of ‘low’ RHR athletes on r.r and r.s.t. Numbers in the 40’s being commonplace. Here’s one "highly trained athlete" (ha!!! with a 36-38 RHR. At my last sports medical check, after doing the test where he takes RHR, you do 30 squats in 45s, he retakes your pulse, then again after 60 (or was that 90) seconds, the quack’s considered opinion was "formidable" and "impressionante".  Miles – "Health Hubris??? Qui, moi??!!" — "Focus. Relaxed Form. Stay smooth. Flow. Breathe."  - gapo ‘98 Cut the .over.the.rainbow if you prefer to reply by email

Response:

about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

Most medical resources refer to a resting heart rate below 60 as sinus bradycardia.  Some highly trained athletes in good health have resting rates below 40.   Of course, some medications, e.g., beta blockers lower the heart rate. Also, some diseases, e.g., heart block can result in bradycardia accompanied with blackout spells.

Response:

about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

There are a number of factors that can affect resting heart rate, some fitness-related, some not. While a change (decline) in resting HR over time can be an indication of a training effect, that is not always the case. Despite anecdotal reports of athletes with super low resting HRs, resting HR has a fairly weak correlation to fitness level, and really should not be a consideration. Rick Gerwin

Response:

Most medical resources refer to a resting heart rate below 60 as sinus bradycardia.  Some highly trained athletes in good health have resting rates below 40.

Seems there are plenty of ‘low’ RHR athletes on r.r and r.s.t. Numbers in the 40’s being commonplace. Here’s one "highly trained athlete" (ha!!! with a 36-38 RHR. At my last sports medical check, after doing the test where he takes RHR, you do 30 squats in 45s, he retakes your pulse, then again after 60 (or was that 90) seconds, the quack’s considered opinion was "formidable" and "impressionante".   Miles – "Health Hubris??? Qui, moi??!!" —  "Focus. Relaxed Form. Stay smooth. Flow. Breathe."   – gapo ‘98 Cut the .over.the.rainbow if you prefer to reply by email

Response:

"Recovery rate" to resting rate may be a better measure. When I run less than half my average training run, I might recover immediately in only a minute or two; tens of minutes for an average training run; hours for a long, hard run.  Means I’m fit for the shorter distances, but not for the longer.

Response:

"brett" == brett  <brett writes: about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

        A low resting heart rate doesn’t neccessarily mean fitness, although it often will.           A few years ago I gave blood and had a heart rate in the 40s somewhere.  The nurse asked if I was a marathoner ;.  The only exercise I got at that time was whitewater kayaking on the weekends, which tends to be more anaerobic than aerobic.         I also get ice cold hands and feet at reasonably normal temperatures, which I think is related.           But it IS nice to be able to set off the "too low" alarm on an HRM as a barfly trick.  1.01 GCS/GO d++ p+ c++ l++ u++ e+ -m+ s++/- n- h !(f)? g+ -w+ t+ r– y?  "I want to permeate the air you breathe/slide my way under your skin/place myself behind your eyes/and watch you, watch me, looking in." Katell Keineg

Response:

about two months ago we finished our season..had a one month break..i started training again..and within a month my resting heart rate had gone from about 70 to 55..does this seem about right? does a resting heart rate indicate how fit you are? both measurements were taken accurately.

Response:

Question:

I concede we could use an organization in the sport. Unfortunately it is like government. We need it, but we don’t need it to be so dominant. In this age of mediocrity we should perhaps EXPECT more from USAT than it gives now. And that more is a greater focus on the age group triathlete.Sure there is a paucity of members voting for the USAT reps. Only a handful of people show for annual meetings. We can’t ALL have a direct voice, nor do we want to. All organizations need the rank and file members for support just by being members. If we ALL came to the annual meeting, nothing would be done. Except maybe form endless committees and get bogged down in a multitude of views and opinions. The whole thing would freeze up. All this voting for reps is any organization’s way of turning aside criticism. Like if you don’t vote or go to meetings your opinion is somehow lessened. The vote is how people are bought off to feel that they may have had a say in things. Any organization should work for ALL the members. We are fortunate to have this forum RST to express our views and USAT should read and post its stance and issues and progress on this board or have a web site for the same. Hey! USAT, these postings are your members. And on RST you hear the real concerns of triathletes. This is our meetinghouse, this is our input. Just because you don’t receive it in your official USAT office does not diminish it. You wanted input Steve Locke, read these boards regularly and post regularly and not just to squelch rumors. Every USAT rep should be on this RST. They should introduce themselves. Take heed. Ken (Treemoss2)

Response:

Charlie, I’m both impressed and scared, because my future has been laid out for me.  I think we may be of the same ilk, the type who can only take restlessness so long before they get involved.  This was my first year that I actually WATCHED some triathlons, and it drove me nuts; I ended up volunteering.           As soon as my shoulder forced me out of competitive water polo, I became a coach.  I hated the reffing, so now I’m a referee. Now I’m working towards being the regional rep.  Hopelessly active and overcommitted for life, it appears .         Honestly, I like to bitch about the way things are as much as the next guy, but I have to agree.  Don’t accept the current tide if you don’t like it.  Get involved.  Your sport will love you for it. cheers,  Vaughn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would think that, like in any democracy, if one wants one’s opinion to be taken seriously, then one should vote.  Call me an idealist but those who vote are not "bought off to feel that they have a say in things," but do have a say with their vote.  USAT does work for its members.  However, Ken, you are NOT a member, isn’t that right?  And, not being a member, and not voting, would tend to make one wonder why you complain. : We are fortunate to have this forum RST to express our views and USAT : should read and post its stance and issues and progress on this board or : have a web site for the same. Hey! USAT, these postings are your members. : And on RST you hear the real concerns of triathletes. This is our : meetinghouse, this is our input. Just because you don’t receive it in your : official USAT office does not diminish it. Steve Locke posts here regularly.  I post here regularly.  What are you saying? I return to my tired old advice to those who complain:  Get on a committee and go to work.  Or, put on a race.  Or become an official. I found myself complaining about the quality of some races back in 1987 and 1988, so the following year, I began an uniterrupted career as a Race Director.  In 1989 I didn’t like what I saw on the bike course at Gulf Coast – lots of blatant drafting – so I became an Official.  In 1992, I didn’t like how the national office dictated things to us in the Southeast as far as Championships, so I got some folks together and founded the Southeast Regional Federation of USAT (then TriFed).  In 1994, i decided that we could do a better job ranking athletes in the Southeast than the National Office, so i set up and manage the ranking system of USAT-SE.  Last year, I found myself thinking that USAT’s home page was one of the worst, so I set up and maintain the USAT-SE Home Page. I’m just one individual who loves the sport.  I maintain my membership and vote for Board Members.  I serve on the Southeast Regional Board.  I see no reason why anyone else couldn’t do the same thing, or do it better. It’s just hard to take someone seriously who merely complains, but doesn’t act positively! Oh yeah, my current project, suggetsed to me by my friend Ron Etcheverry, is to build a page to promote junior triathletes in the Southeast.  USS promotes their top juniors from age 8 & under, all the way up.  So should USAT.  Since USAT doesn’t, I’m not going to get on this forum and waste everyones time whining about someone else NOT doing something, since it only would beg the question "Why don’t I do something?". If you want to improve things, go to work and improve them! Charlie Crawford USAT Commissioner of Officials

Response:

In this age of mediocrity we should perhaps EXPECT more from USAT than it

 gives now. We can’t ALL have a direct voice, nor do we want to.

Do you live in a cave?   If you do not want a direct voice then why do you pontificate(sp)?

Response:

Good response, Charlie.  It’s about time people stopped complaining and started participating.   Actually, the complaining is good too.  We in the Age Group Commission read RST daily and respond with programs, resolutions, and prodding of the USAT Board.  This has become an excellent forum for age groupers to effect change and identify issues for our sport. — Ray Plotecia

| : In this age of mediocrity we should perhaps EXPECT more from USAT than it | : gives now. And that more is a greater focus on the age group | : triathlete.Sure there is a paucity of members voting for the USAT reps. | | : All this voting for reps is any organization’s way of turning aside | : criticism. Like if you don’t vote or go to meetings your opinion is somehow | : lessened. The vote is how people are bought off to feel that they may have | : had a say in things. Any organization should work for ALL the members. | | I would think that, like in any democracy, if one wants one’s opinion to | be taken seriously, then one should vote.  Call me an idealist but those | who vote are not "bought off to feel that they have a say in things," but | do have a say with their vote.  USAT does work for its members.  However, | Ken, you are NOT a member, isn’t that right?  And, not being a member, and | not voting, would tend to make one wonder why you complain. | | : We are fortunate to have this forum RST to express our views and USAT | : should read and post its stance and issues and progress on this board or | : have a web site for the same. Hey! USAT, these postings are your members. | : And on RST you hear the real concerns of triathletes. This is our | : meetinghouse, this is our input. Just because you don’t receive it in your | : official USAT office does not diminish it. | | Steve Locke posts here regularly.  I post here regularly.  What are you | saying? | | I return to my tired old advice to those who complain:  Get on a | committee and go to work.  Or, put on a race.  Or become an official.   | | I found myself complaining about the quality of some races back in 1987 | and 1988, so the following year, I began an uniterrupted career as a Race | Director.  In 1989 I didn’t like what I saw on the bike course at Gulf | Coast – lots of blatant drafting – so I became an Official.  In 1992, I | didn’t like how the national office dictated things to us in the | Southeast as far as Championships, so I got some folks together and | founded the Southeast Regional Federation of USAT (then TriFed).  In | 1994, i decided that we could do a better job ranking athletes in the | Southeast than the National Office, so i set up and manage the ranking | system of USAT-SE.  Last year, I found myself thinking that USAT’s home | page was one of the worst, so I set up and maintain the USAT-SE Home Page. | | I’m just one individual who loves the sport.  I maintain my membership | and vote for Board Members.  I serve on the Southeast Regional Board.  I | see no reason why anyone else couldn’t do the same thing, or do it | better.   | | It’s just hard to take someone seriously who merely complains, but | doesn’t act positively! | | Oh yeah, my current project, suggetsed to me by my friend Ron Etcheverry, | is to build a page to promote junior triathletes in the Southeast.  USS | promotes their top juniors from age 8 & under, all the way up.  So should | USAT.  Since USAT doesn’t, I’m not going to get on this forum and waste | everyones time whining about someone else NOT doing something, since it | only would beg the question "Why don’t I do something?". | | If you want to improve things, go to work and improve them! | | Charlie Crawford | USAT Commissioner of Officials |

Response:

: In this age of mediocrity we should perhaps EXPECT more from USAT than it : gives now. And that more is a greater focus on the age group : triathlete.Sure there is a paucity of members voting for the USAT reps. : All this voting for reps is any organization’s way of turning aside : criticism. Like if you don’t vote or go to meetings your opinion is somehow : lessened. The vote is how people are bought off to feel that they may have : had a say in things. Any organization should work for ALL the members. I would think that, like in any democracy, if one wants one’s opinion to be taken seriously, then one should vote.  Call me an idealist but those who vote are not "bought off to feel that they have a say in things," but do have a say with their vote.  USAT does work for its members.  However, Ken, you are NOT a member, isn’t that right?  And, not being a member, and not voting, would tend to make one wonder why you complain. : We are fortunate to have this forum RST to express our views and USAT : should read and post its stance and issues and progress on this board or : have a web site for the same. Hey! USAT, these postings are your members. : And on RST you hear the real concerns of triathletes. This is our : meetinghouse, this is our input. Just because you don’t receive it in your : official USAT office does not diminish it. Steve Locke posts here regularly.  I post here regularly.  What are you saying? I return to my tired old advice to those who complain:  Get on a committee and go to work.  Or, put on a race.  Or become an official.   I found myself complaining about the quality of some races back in 1987 and 1988, so the following year, I began an uniterrupted career as a Race Director.  In 1989 I didn’t like what I saw on the bike course at Gulf Coast – lots of blatant drafting – so I became an Official.  In 1992, I didn’t like how the national office dictated things to us in the Southeast as far as Championships, so I got some folks together and founded the Southeast Regional Federation of USAT (then TriFed).  In 1994, i decided that we could do a better job ranking athletes in the Southeast than the National Office, so i set up and manage the ranking system of USAT-SE.  Last year, I found myself thinking that USAT’s home page was one of the worst, so I set up and maintain the USAT-SE Home Page. I’m just one individual who loves the sport.  I maintain my membership and vote for Board Members.  I serve on the Southeast Regional Board.  I see no reason why anyone else couldn’t do the same thing, or do it better.   It’s just hard to take someone seriously who merely complains, but doesn’t act positively! Oh yeah, my current project, suggetsed to me by my friend Ron Etcheverry, is to build a page to promote junior triathletes in the Southeast.  USS promotes their top juniors from age 8 & under, all the way up.  So should USAT.  Since USAT doesn’t, I’m not going to get on this forum and waste everyones time whining about someone else NOT doing something, since it only would beg the question "Why don’t I do something?". If you want to improve things, go to work and improve them! Charlie Crawford USAT Commissioner of Officials

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know where the age group results can be found on the net?   I am a 40 year old age grouper from a small town in southern Ill and have an unusual predicament.  My 10 year old seems to have some potential at this triathlon stuff.  He was second in the adult sprint in the 10-15 age group and the first u.s. kid.  What the heck do I do with this kid now?  There are no other tri kids within a 100 miles.  It is is fourth tri and his second international race.  He was 3rd in the Cape Giraudo Mo Steamboat race in may in the 19 and under division.   Any suggestions would be appreciated    Keith Kibler

Response:

: Does anyone know where the age group results can be found on the net? On the web at: usatriathlon.org/mrststri.htm.

Response:

Question:

RE: Latta Plantation Park Triathlon (6/15 — Charlotte NC) If you haven’t received your race results yet you should soon.  I talked to an organizer about it Tuesday.  They were just about to mail via bulk rate when the Post Office changed the requirements for such mail.  They hope to have everything out this week. Larry O

Thanks for the info. I’ve been wondering about the delay. (But I’ve been too lazy to bother checking up on it) Chris Christopher N. Baucom "Mama always told me not to look into the eyes of the sun. But Mama, that’s where the fun is!"

Response:

RE: Latta Plantation Park Triathlon (6/15 — Charlotte NC) If you haven’t received your race results yet you should soon.  I talked to an organizer about it Tuesday.  They were just about to mail via bulk rate when the Post Office changed the requirements for such mail.  They hope to have everything out this week. Larry O

Response:

Question:

A new triathlon magazine will be coming out on June 15th and will be delivered right to your email address.  The goal is to have you, the readers, send in what you would like to be included in each issue. There will also be articles written by the experts in our sport.  The magazine is free of charge and will stay that way.  It will be readable through adobe acrobat which is also free.  PLease email me if you would like to subscribe.  Please use "New subscriber" in the subject column and I will add you.  Also Profile has donated a set of Airstryker handlebars for the person who comes up with a name for this new magazine.  Please put "Name" in the subject box for submissions. Thanx Rob Walters

Response:

A new triathlon magazine will be coming out on June 15th and will be delivered right to your email address.  The goal is to have you, the readers, send in what you would like to be included in each issue.

Will our e-mail addresses potentially be sold to marketing companies?   Joe

Response:

Derek Theriault

Response:

Your email address will only be used by the magazine tosend you the issues.  We will NOT, under any circumstance use your adddress for any other reason. Thanx Rob Walters

Response:

Please sign me up! Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

Response:

new subscriber Thanks, Rob Grady

Response:

sign me up      name….tri2

Response:

new subscriber

Response:

Please sign me up!

Yes, yes, sign me up, too! (Did I miss something? What are we signing up for?) Katherine Williams

Response:

Question:

You can finish comfortably about any race up to the 1/2IM on 7-10 hours training per week.  I know, because last summer I finished the 1/2 Vineman in 5:47 (including a 20+ min loss due to two flats on the bike).  My training plans came about mostly through trial and error, as I had no real race experience to bank on (Vineman was only my second tri ever). I was swimming 7500 yds per week (3×2500), biking about 75 miles, and running 25 (3×5mi, 1×10mi). In fairness, 5:47 won’t set any records, but I did finish with energy to spare, and will be back to do it again this July in Santa Rosa.  I’d love to think I could carve out 15 hours a week, but with travel, children, and a Mrs. that likes the lawn mowed, more than 10 would see me in front of Judge Wapner. Maybe less is more?

Response:

I am trying to determine how much time I should devote to training this year.  I want to move up to the Olympic distance.  I have been training 4.5 hours/week for sprint distances(2 hrs. on the bike), and  I can finish pretty well.  I want to know if you guys train by the mile or hour per week and how much of either for different distances.  Thanks for the anticipated advice.-Steve

Response:

I finish just below mid pack so take my training sched with a large grain of salt. In season I typically (not like those people that lie through their teeth and CLAIM to train a gizillion hours a week) swim three times a week for 30 min each. I have one relaxed/technique swim, one killer threshold swim of 100-400 metre intervals and one of 1500m at slightly below race pace. (that’s 1.5 hours if you’re keeping score at home). I ride 3 times a week as well. Two 1 hour rides one is intervals, 3 min hard, 3 min easy. I do one hill repeat (about 8% 1.5 miles long, as many times as I can in 60-90 min) and I do one 2 hour ride on the weekend at moderate pace. I run 2-3 times a week for 30 min also. Once again I do one interval track session, one easy run and one hilly run at moderate pace. That totals 7 hours per week and TriSpouse complains about every minute of it. In the month before a half ironman I bump up the running and riding times by about double, with a week of taper before the race itself. (about 12.5 hours for those weeks) As you can see, it’s not really that much and the results show it. I don’t mind not winning, I’m only race for the draw prizes anyway. It’s also fun to make TriSpouse get up early on sunday mornings. TriDork

Response:

: I finish just below mid pack so take my training sched with a : large grain of salt. : : In season I typically (not like those people that lie through : their teeth and CLAIM to train a gizillion hours a week) swim : three times a week for 30 min each. I have one relaxed/technique : swim, one killer threshold swim of 100-400 metre intervals and : one of 1500m at slightly below race pace. (that’s 1.5 hours if : you’re keeping score at home). OK, let’s see here…..  If you are only doing 30 mins 3X a weeks that means that you can’t be that guy that I see every time I go swimming in the gold pool.  ( think he probably swims 45-50 mins anyway ) So the search for TriDork continues….. Sorry for the lack of relevance to the thread… Ray

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my stuff deleted OK, let’s see here…..  If you are only doing 30 mins 3X a weeks that means that you can’t be that guy that I see every time I go swimming in the gold pool.  ( think he probably swims 45-50 mins anyway ) So the search for TriDork continues….. Sorry for the lack of relevance to the thread… Ray

Ray,   I THINK the guy you are referring to is nick named "bob" for his bobbing action when he swims back or breaststroke. He swims every lunch hour and does EXACTLY the same workout every day. His real name is Dave. If I had his body, I’d be going alot faster than he does. Even with my body I go faster than he does.   With my recent descriptions of myself, you may also be confusing me with Walter. He’s an ex swim team member (10 years ago) that let himself go and is now trying to get back into shape. He isn’t particularly fast but you can tell he has the technique still. His weight is dropping and his times are too.    As for me, I usually swim in the evenings with the masters group. In the summer I’ll be in the pool most tuesdays and thursdays at lunch time. I can be easily spotted (as long as the cap lasts) in my Esprit Triathlon swim helmet. It’s white with red letters.  I also swim almost exclusively with pull bouys to save my arthritic hip. Next time you spot me, stop me and introduce yourself. Same goes for any other trigeek lurkers etc out there. I love meeting rst’ers and unfortunaltely missed Wildflower. TriDork

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I am trying to determine how much time I should devote to training this year.  I want to move up to the Olympic distance.  I have been training 4.5 hours/week for sprint distances(2 hrs. on the bike), and  I can finish pretty well.  I want to know if you guys train by the mile or hour per week and how much of either for different distances.  Thanks for the anticipated advice.-Steve

Rob Sleamaker has developed a whole system based on hours instead of miles. It’s covered in his book "SERIOUS Training for Serious Athletes." ISBN 0-88011-338-3 I followed it for a while and it seemed to work pretty well. The only reason I got away from it was injury (not related to the program) and I never have gotten back to it. Maybe I should…. Mike Tennent WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar FTP Race Apps, FAQ, Download The WebRunner Racing Utilities http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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I am trying to determine how much time I should devote to training this year.  I want to move up to the Olympic distance.  I have been training 4.5 hours/week for sprint distances(2 hrs. on the bike), and  I can finish pretty well.  I want to know if you guys train by the mile or hour per week and how much of either for different distances.  Thanks for the anticipated advice.-Steve

The hours you train depends on your goals. If you want to race an Olympic distance, go reasonably fast and be in control of your body, 7 hours a week is more than enough. 5 would probably do the trick. I mean real live training, not including the travel to the pool. If you want to go really fast, then you need to spend much more time, perhaps twice as much, to include weight training, more long slow sessions, etc. As for me, I follow a simple, unscientific program that has kept me from getting injured (from training) for nearly three years straight. I also keep getting faster every day, though I can’t say that my speed would impress anyone. Here’s what I do: Day 1: Run 5.6 miles, hard pace (for me, around 7:30 miles. 10K race pace is 7 minutes.) Day 2: Swim 1500 meters, comfortable (around 30 minutes, race pace is 27) Day 3: Bike 18 miles, hard pace (around 20 mph including lights, etc, race pace is 22) Day 4: Easy run of varying length, sometimes 8 miles, sometimes only 5. 8:30 pace. Day 5: Swim speed intervals, 250 meters hard. So far I can only do four of them, at just under 4 minutes for the 250. Dream of doing six at that pace, then pushing the time down. Goal is to swim 1,000 meters in sub 16. I’m 39, figure I can do that when I’m 49. Day 6: A great day – the long bike. 25 miles+, depending on the time I have. It is really interval training. I’ll head for a big hill and kill myself there. I’ll sprint along a 3 mile flat without lights. But otherwise I just spin, spin spin. Day 7 – Rest. Some additions: — Twice a month I do speed work on the run days. Sometimes I run 300 yard sprints. (6x) Sometimes I do mile hammers (3x at 5:30-6:30, or till I feel light headed) — Once a week I lose one of these workouts to the realities of life – business, family, the common cold, etc. So I really only train five days a week. I just bump the missed workout to the next day so I stay on this pattern — I did some strength work with a dumbell during the winter, but have dropped it now, mostly due to a lack of time. Dream of doing real weight work, but don’t have time and refuse to give up the other training. — If a friend calls and we can work out together, I dump my schedule and do whatever they want. Rather have company than stay with my program. Hope this helps. Brian Brian Sullivan

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Roxanne: Wow! You animal you. I simply can’t find the time in my schedule to do the training you do. And while I think I could train for maybe 10 hours a week, I doubt my body would hold up if I did much more. I find the focused hour a day works for me and my goal of moving into the top third of finishers. (Right now I’m in the middle of the pack – last race was 46 of 91 in my age group) But if you can sustain that training without injury, keep going. If you start getting hurt, think about cutting back and joining us slugs in the middle of the pack. PS – I read an article in runners world this month about trading six days of 5 mile runs to three days of 10 mile runs – more intensity and more rest yields better results, the argument goes. Particularly true for old folks in the masters division. I thought this over and decided it is more important to me that I get out of the house every day than it is to go faster. Brian Sullivan

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(BPSullivan) writes: The hours you train depends on your goals. If you want to race an Olympic distance, go reasonably fast and be in control of your body, 7 hours a week is more than enough. 5 would probably do the trick. I mean real live training, not including the travel to the pool.

Okay.. I just had to jump in on this one.  7 hours a week?  I MUST be doing something wrong!! Or just overdoing it.  I loosely base my training on Sally Edward’s recommendation of doing 3X the distance you want to race each week.  And the belief that you need to do something at least 3 times a week to gain proficiency.  I’m focussing on the O-distances this season.  The "normal" routine (don’t think I’ve had a normal week yet!!): Swim: 2X Masters workouts = 3 hrs = 8500 yds (okay.. so that’s overkill, but it’s a great program and I’m there, so why not?  Also I used to sink like a stone.) Plus an ocean swim (30 min) on the weekend if my "wildlife" buddies are able to coordinate. Total Distance: 8500-10000 yds. Time: 3:30. Run: 3X /week.  1 LSD day of 8 miles (1hr 10min).  2x 5.3 mile hilly runs (45 min ea).  Try to sub a track workout for one of the hill runs (1.5 hours- it’s a group thing).  Total distance:18-19miles. Time: 2:40 to 3:30. Bike:  The toughie- I’m still struggling to get close to 75 miles a week on a regular basis.  1 25-30 miler on the weekend (1:30-2:00 hrs).  2 shorter rides during the week of 20 and 10.  (1:45). Distance: 65-70 miles.  Time: 2:15-3:45. Total time: 8:30-10:45   Overall, I seem to be pretty well balanced in each area when it comes to placement on each leg of a race.  I would say give extra time to your weakest area (that WAS swimming for me.. probably the bike now!!!). Other thoughts on squeezing it all in.  If you CAN get a good block of time on a weekend, try to do a brick.  For that matter, try running off the bike EVERYTIME you ride (even if it’s just for a quick mile).  Of course I SAY this, but do I DO it???  Rarely.  But this thread has made me think about how to make my training more efficient.  I keep hearing that it’s the quality, not the quantity that’s going to make the bigger difference.   I think the most important thing for you to focus on is to be able to finish each distance you plan to race comfortably.  Then, when you have an idea of the total time required to complete the race, make sure you have the aerobic capacity for that time!  The long bike rides tend to help quite a bit.  Also… take your time.  Build up your base slowly.  You’ll be rewarded with a LOT fewer aches and pains AND, hopefully, no injuries!! Good luck and Happy Training!!  It’s a BLAST!!! Roxanne

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So how far do you think I should be able to go training these distances.  Working out 6 days/week.  I do not want to do mutiple workout days, and I like the day off. I also do a light weight routine 3 times/week.  My distances are about: I mistated my distances earlier, (I was in a hurry 3000-4000 yds s 30-40 mi B 7-9 mi R The Bike is usually a 15 mi ride and then a 20 or grater ride, and I do two runs of 2.8,3.5,4.6  The loops add up that way. Swimming is usually 500’s or 1000’s  with some sprints thrown in. I am not quite up there yet, But if I could have a week of good weather, I will go past these distances. I will maintain this for about 3-4 months before my long race in Jeckle Isl. For a 1/25/6 race,  where would you spend extra time ? by the end of the summer I hope to be biking 50-60 miles/week. It seems that is where the real endurance comes from. Thanks and sorry about the first post. Jim

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I averaged (for my 2nd Ironman) maybe 5000-6000 m per week in the pool, 140-180 km/week (80-100 mi) on the bike, and maybe about 40 km (25 mi)/week running.  During 2-3 separate weeks during January to August 1995, I went much longer on the bike and run (350 km or 200 mi bike and 80 km or 50 mi running).  I did a faster swim (by 1 minute), faster bike (by 1 hr 17 min) and a faster run (by 54 min).   -Rolf

So how far do you think I should be able to go training these distances.  Working out 6 days/week.  I do not want to do mutiple workout days, and I like the day off. I also do a light weight routine 3 times/week.  My distances are about 3500 – 4000 yds 100 – 120 mi Bike 9 – 12 mi Run I am not quite up there yet, But if I could have a week of good weather, I will go past these distances. I will maintain this for about 3-4 months before my long race in Jeckle Isl. For a 1/25/6 race,  where would you spend extra time ? Would this be enough for an IM ? Right now that is out of reach, but give me time. Jim                                             Reality is only important when Jim Patterson                     People realize their Perceptions                                                 are different from Reality.

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<training info deleted Not to sound like a broken record, but after reading your training I’ve got four words: TOO MUCH FOR ME! You either can recover much faster than I can, or else you will find out at some point that this also was too much.  The cross training effect is very dramatic at these longer distances.  You simply do not need the high mileage for the Ironman, in my opinion, unless you plan on finishing in the top 10.   I averaged (for my 2nd Ironman) maybe 5000-6000 m per week in the pool, 140-180 km/week (80-100 mi) on the bike, and maybe about 40 km (25 mi)/week running.  During 2-3 separate weeks during January to August 1995, I went much longer on the bike and run (350 km or 200 mi bike and 80 km or 50 mi running).  I did a faster swim (by 1 minute), faster bike (by 1 hr 17 min) and a faster run (by 54 min).   -Rolf —    Rolf "Ironman" Arands, Ph.D. (Chemical Engineering)   Dept. of Chem. and Biochem. Eng’g, Rutgers University  –These are my highly opinionated views, not Rutgers’–

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Well…. the swim and the bike look doable!  There’s a tri-woman I know

?who regularly does 300miles a week biking.   But the running????  Yeah, I guess you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns there!! I don’t know many folks who train more than 35 miles a week.  Since I’m not anywhere near even THINKING about IM distances, the 3X the distance concept works pretty well AND seems reasonable. Roxanne

I am doing the following right at the moment:Bear in mind that I am a triathlete trainig for a marathon.  I expect to run somewhere under  2 hr 35 min all going smoothly. Swim 18 k p/week Bike 220 k/p week Rin 110 k/p week I think you can only run this much if you reduce your biking.  I have done three IMs and only vere run about 70 k p/week. Grant schofield Australia

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Hi all, In season I typically (not like those people that lie through

So far about what you’re doing in season. But what in wintertime (and how long is wintertime in your area). Here in middleeurope it’s a long time you can’t go by bike nor go running. Only swimming is boring. What are you doing? Niko + www.inx.de/~nkomin (sorry, only available in german)

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Hi all, In season I typically (not like those people that lie through So far about what you’re doing in season. But what in wintertime (and how long is wintertime in your area). Here in middleeurope it’s a long time you can’t go by bike nor go running. Only swimming is boring. What are you doing? Niko +

I don’t have an indoor trainer yet. My apartment is nothing more than a walk in closet with a sink and stove in the corner. In winter I run. Even here in Canada. In fact, I prefer the cooler temperatures and will run with temps to about -30 deg C. Preparation is the key. Swimming gets the lions share of the workout time of course. This is when I join Masters and work on technique and building my endurance. My running is usually long slow stuff since I don’t want to sweat too much in the cold and also traction can be a small problem in the snow. I also throw in weight workouts several times a week. As soon as riding becomes a possibility I drop the weights, reduce the swimming to mainly intervals, switch to shorter runs and spend as much time riding as my schedule will allow. On average I train 7-10 hours per week all year long except that building up to 1/2 or full ironman races I’ll bump that to more like 10-15 per week. TriDork

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I loosely base my training on Sally Edward’s recommendation of doing 3X the distance you want to race each week. It works also for the Ironman?? Wow! So let’s say 12k swimming (this could   be ok for someone else than me),  540k on the bike and especially 126k   running!

Ironman requires a fourth discipline: faith.

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I loosely base my training on Sally Edward’s recommendation of doing 3X the distance you want to race each week.

Actually, you can do an Ironman on less than this.  My first one was on 1X/week training in 14:42 (Endurance Tri at Sunapee NH in ‘89).  Since then I tried decreasing my mileage to see what the minimum is.  I cut back to 0.8/80/15 miles/week but my times got slower, 13:27, 13:45, 14:19, 15:11 at the Great Floridian ‘91-’94.  The last one might have been faster if I hadn’t attempted to run a 100 mile trail race 2 weeks earlier, dropping out at 70 miles.  Last year I tried the same thing again and finished the trail run (in 28:53) but injured the shin muscle which became inflamed from 40 miles on, but I took lots of Advil (12X normal dose) to mask the pain and keep going.   I walked with a limp for 10 days afterwards.  It felt OK by race day but by then my wife Joan and I arranged to do a relay where I swam and biked and she ran.  We were still pretty slow (over 16 hours) but we won first place coed masters relay.

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I am trying to determine how much time I should devote to training this year.   I want to move up to the Olympic distance.  I have been training 4.5 hours/week   for sprint distances(2 hrs. on the bike), and  I can finish pretty well. I   want to know if you guys train by the mile or hour per week and how much of   either for different distances.  Thanks for the anticipated advice.-Steve

Not speaking for "us guys" collectively, but only for myself, I train by hours per week in all three sports (though I keep track of pool swimming yards just because its easy).  I finished Ironman Canada in a time I’m proud of (11:23) in 1992 on an average of 10 hours per week.  I’m doing it again this year on the same average hours, but emphasizing fewer, longer workouts (avg. 7/week). Art Hutchinson Newton, MA

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Just some food for thought Rox.  I went to this Tri Forum in NYC recently.  I asked Karen Smyers what she thought about dividing your training time to each sport.  She wouldn’t say how many hours per week to train for any distance (except maybe the Fe, I think) but she said that whatever time you spend in total each week one half should be on the bike.- Steve

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I loosely base my training on Sally Edward’s recommendation of doing 3X the distance you want to race each week.

It works also for the Ironman?? Wow! So let’s say 12k swimming (this could be ok for someone else than me),  540k on the bike and especially 126k running! — F. Desprez

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Desprez) writes: I loosely base my training on Sally Edward’s recommendation of doing 3X the distance you want to race each week. It works also for the Ironman?? Wow! So let’s say 12k swimming (this could be ok for someone else than me),  540k on the bike and especially 126k running! — F. Desprez

Well…. the swim and the bike look doable!  There’s a tri-woman I know who regularly does 300miles a week biking.   But the running????  Yeah, I guess you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns there!! I don’t know many folks who train more than 35 miles a week.  Since I’m not anywhere near even THINKING about IM distances, the 3X the distance concept works pretty well AND seems reasonable. Roxanne

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: It works also for the Ironman?? Wow! So let’s say 12k swimming (this could be : ok for someone else than me),  540k on the bike and especially 126k running! I don’t think so.  Granted I’m training for my first (IMC) this fall, but there’s no way I’ll see milage anywhere close to that.  Right now, I’m doing around: Swim:  3-4x/week.  Twice I’ll do 6×500yds up tempo, one long one of 8-10×500yds, and if I do a fourth it’s quick.  Something like 10×200yds after a warmup.  Around 8,000-11,000 yds/week. Bike:  4x/week.  One fast and hilly (13mi), one medium and easy (30mi), one spinning workout (20mi at 90-120rpm), and one long of anywhere from 40-100mi by the end of summer.  Averaging 100-150mi/week right now, probably closer to 180mi as the date approaches. Run:  4x/week.  Two medium distance (6-10mi) at a slight up-tempo pace.   One short and quick tempo run (4mi or so) and one long 10+ mile run.   Averaging around 30 mi/week.   Total time for all three sports around 15 hours or so.  Opinions? — Jason Mayfield Arlington, VA http://dufus.westga.edu/~zooropa 106 Days Until Ironman Canada

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : It works also for the Ironman?? Wow! So let’s say 12k swimming (this could be : ok for someone else than me),  540k on the bike and especially 126k running! I don’t think so.  Granted I’m training for my first (IMC) this fall, but there’s no way I’ll see milage anywhere close to that.  Right now, I’m doing around: Swim:  3-4x/week.  Twice I’ll do 6×500yds up tempo, one long one of 8-10×500yds, and if I do a fourth it’s quick.  Something like 10×200yds after a warmup.  Around 8,000-11,000 yds/week. Bike:  4x/week.  One fast and hilly (13mi), one medium and easy (30mi), one spinning workout (20mi at 90-120rpm), and one long of anywhere from 40-100mi by the end of summer.  Averaging 100-150mi/week right now, probably closer to 180mi as the date approaches. Run:  4x/week.  Two medium distance (6-10mi) at a slight up-tempo pace. One short and quick tempo run (4mi or so) and one long 10+ mile run. Averaging around 30 mi/week. Total time for all three sports around 15 hours or so.  Opinions?

I have completed several Ironman triathlons including a couple of IMC races.  I believe the effort in training has to be related to your training goals.  I usually finish in around 11 hours and change.   Swim Training 3 times a week right now total yardage 5000 yds all in pool mostly 500 m sets. Once Lake Huron warms up I will do 2 times a week in the pool and one open water swim of 1 hour.  At IMC, I swim about 1:03- 1:07.  Total yards max. is 7000 yds Bike training 3 or 4 times a week right now 120-140 miles a week.  Will increase to 150-170 miles a week in mid July. Every 4th week will drop to 100 miles. Run training, average about 20 miles a week in April, increase to 25 miles a week in May and 30 in June.  Usually get in 3 runs a week. Always get in one long run, right now long run is 12 miles on easy 2 hours.  Will work up to 2:45 hour run. Twice a month I do a brick workout. Last week brick was 35 mile bike, 7 mile run.   Will increase to 75 mile bike and 15 miles run by last week in July.  I usually do two 1/2 Ironman races as tune-ups. Hope this info helps. It works well for me.  See you at IMC in August. I also have a very understanding wife, an 8 year old daughter and a 5 year old son.

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Total time for all three sports around 15 hours or so.  Opinions?

I too am training for IMC (my first). I am a big advocate of low mileage training for someone like myself whose goal is to get to the finish line in a reasonable time. I am following almost a 1x the distance weekly mileage at about 12-15hr / wk. Swim: 2.5 – 3.5 mi /wk (swim 2x wk) Bike: 110-200 mi /wk (bike 4x wk)  - I’m planning about 1 long ride / mo. Next week, I’m doing 140 mi (over 2 days – Century & 40 on dy 2). Then I’ve got a Metric Century in June & a Century in July Run 20-35 mi /wk (run 3-4x wk) I’m also training for NYC Marathon so my max run will be 18-20 2 wks before the race. Advice I’ve heard is getting to the point where you can conmfortably do a 70/10 Brick & you’re IM ready!

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