Question:

I have the wheels you speak of .  Actually Velocity Deep V with a Daytona front Hub and 16 spokes and a 28 spoke rear Record Hub.  I also own a set of Kysriums.  I like the Ksyriums much better.  This is just a subjective judgement, but heres some data. Your point about cost is definitely true, but my wheels were closer to $450, not $300.  Try finding a Record hub (rear) for less than $120.   Deep V rims are around $100 a pop.

I just added up the cost of the components from the latest Colorado Cyclist catalog.  $450 sounds pretty high…  but it’s still a LOT less than $800.  The rims I spec’d are $45 each, BTW (Velocity Aeroheads).  I didn’t spec the faster, deeper, heavier rims because that’s not what the Ksyriums are built around.  They are only 25mm deep. As far as Record hubs being better than the mavic, I don’t agree.  The Mavic hubs are the smoothest hubs I have ever used and I yes I think I can actually feel a significant difference when using these wheels largely due to the hubs.

I’d suggest you expected to feel the difference.  If you think you can feel a "significant difference", either you’re totally imagining it, or there’s something very, very wrong with your Campy hubs.  Either way, if you build a hub that’s as good as a Record hub, the world will beat a path to your door to buy lots of ‘em.  I don’t recall that happening with Mavic hubs yet. Your weight for the Kysrium SSCs are wrong.  Published for 700cc set is 690g front and 840 rear, which is 1530gr, so no your wheels are not lighter.

Don’t know where you got the numbers, but the numbers I got from the Colorado Cyclist catalog are 785g f / 940g r.  The weights you quote are probably minus the QR skewers.  I don’t care HOW much you wanna shave grams, that’s too extreme for me!  ;-)  It’s also their "marketing weight" and we all know that means the product is probably actually heavier. Using a more Aero rim (like the Deep V) which is 30mm, would push up the weight of your wheels even more, so it would not even be close, I bet the Ksyriums would win by at least 150grams.

IF you include the skewers (and I hope you will…) the deeper rims would probably make my less expensive, more robust, easier to repair wheels very slightly heavier than the Ksyriums.  And it would also make them even faster than the Ksyriums. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see who rides hyperlight wheels: Saeco – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Bonjour – Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC FDJ.Com – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Fassa Bortolo – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Lotto – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Euskaltel-Euskadi – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL <snip So, Mark Hickey of Habanero Cycles, what am I missing here?  These tour riders appear to be going for aerodynamics and a serious reduction in weight.  Not only are Mavic Kyserium SSC SL wheels a "name", but they are also definitely hyperlight and definitely ridden in the tour. The riders ride what their sponsors want them to ride (with certain interesting exceptions).  In the case of the Tour, there is a minimum weight limit for a bike that means an extra few hundred grams in a set of wheels is a virtual non-issue.  These riders also have team and neutral support cars right behind them with spare wheels, and they replace all their equipment very often.  If that sounds like your rides, then by all means…  ;-) Let’s look at the Ksyrium SSC SL.  They go for $800 a pair (ouch). They weigh (marketing weight, of course) 1725g a pair. They use thick aluminum bladed spokes that can’t be as aero as the thinner steel bladed spokes in my own personal (much cheaper) aero wheels.  The rim section is only 25mm deep, so they’re certainly not as aero as my own deeper (and cheaper) aero wheels. If I were going to build a pair of "faster, cheaper wheels", I might do it like this… Record hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 28 spokes, DT Aero Speed bladed spokes.  Keeping with the hyperlight goal, I spec’d alloy nipples since I don’t have to maintain it…  ;-)  Add 35g of you want brass. The end result is a set of VERY reliable and fast wheels that cost less than half as much as the Ksyriums if you can build ‘em yourself (figure $350), and a bit more than that if you have them built. They’re also 67g LIGHTER than the Ksyriums, and though I’m not likely to rent a wind tunnel to check it out, I’d expect them to be more aerodynamic since it’s been shown that thicker spokes have more drag, but there is very little penalty for more spokes.  The deeper rim should more result in a faster wheel than the Ksyrium at any rate. Add to that you’ll be riding on Campy Record hubs (gotta be better than whatever is on the Ksyrium, no matter what), and that you can buy a replacement spoke anywhere and I think the choice is clear. Unless you just happen to be in love with the look of the Ksyrium – or maybe the name?  ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

The Ks are flashier, right?  Your club buddies notice them, right?

The Ks are not flashy at all.  Go to a bike race and that is what about half the people are riding, same for a lot of club rides.  More than anything else that is the proof on why the Ks are better, everyone uses them and I have never met anyone who had a complaint about them.   You might be able to build a comparable set for about $150 less, if you look around, but who needs the hassle.   As was suggested the best bet is probably daves wheels speeddream.com or something like that.

Response:

Mark, I took exception to your claim that the "… pro riders … (in the) the Alps."  do not worry about wheel weight, but focus on aerodynamics.  I think most people would agree that the lightest and most aero wheel would be best as long as it is strong enough.  We can debate grams, component quality, and feel, but remember this is all opinion.  I think the Kysriums are incredibly light and they have a great feel.  If you don’t agree that is fine.  The original post was simply asking for opinions about wheels based on specific usage.  Hopefully the original poster has some opinions now.  However, what bothered me about your first post was that you made a claim and then tried to back up your claim by speaking for "… pro riders … (in the) the Alps."

Check out what the pro riders ride – they don’t bother with hyper-light "climbing wheels" even when doing 4-5 mountain passes through the Alps. Well, they worry about weight and aerodynamics from what I can tell.  And, quite frankly the evidence does not support your claims.  Just check out Lance’s climbing bike in this Velo News article titled "Tour Tech – Keeping those wheels light": http://www.velonews.com/race/tour2002/articles/2748.0.html It is fine to state your own opinions, but please don’t try to speak for the "… pro riders … (in the) the Alps." Bill

Response:

Check out Dave’s wheels at http://www.speeddreams.com Dave has been around for many years,  builds reasonably priced and highly recommended wheels. B.Oliver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I looked into custom wheels but I could not find a custom wheel builder but have not had much luck in finding someone who builds a lite semi-aero 20 bladed spoke  front and 24 rear.  If anyone knows of one I would appreciate them passing the info on to me. Thanks Mike Hi everyone, Well due to a couple knee problems I am only going to do a few sprints and a lot of yccle road races next year.  I sold my Tri bike and bought a road bike. I am loking at a couple different race wheels that will suit both. I want a semi deep profile while mantaining low weight for acceleration with the pack.  I wanted to know if anyone had any oppinion on these. Mavic cosmic elite ( not sure if these are a bit too heavy) Mavic KSYRIUM elite ( the rage right now but are they really that good) Velomax tempest or ascent ( don’t know much about these at all but heard the manufacturer was real good) Which one would you buy in my shoes? Are there others I am overlooking in this price range? Thanks Mike

Response:

I have the wheels you speak of .  Actually Velocity Deep V with a Daytona front Hub and 16 spokes and a 28 spoke rear Record Hub.  I also own a set of Kysriums.  I like the Ksyriums much better.  This is just a subjective judgement, but heres some data.

The Ks are flashier, right?  Your club buddies notice them, right? Your point about cost is definitely true, but my wheels were closer to $450, not $300.  Try finding a Record hub (rear) for less than $120.   Deep V rims are around $100 a pop.

You were ripped, perhaps? As far as Record hubs being better than the mavic, I don’t agree.  The Mavic hubs are the smoothest hubs I have ever used and I yes I think I can actually feel a significant difference when using these wheels largely due to the hubs.

It’s true that you think you can. Your weight for the Kysrium SSCs are wrong.  Published for 700cc set is 690g front and 840 rear, which is 1530gr, so no your wheels are not lighter. Using a more Aero rim (like the Deep V) which is 30mm, would push up the weight of your wheels even more, so it would not even be close, I bet the Ksyriums would win by at least 150grams.

Ah well, what would Mark Hickey know about bikes anyway? BTW, please don’t top post. Mark M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see who rides hyperlight wheels: Saeco – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Bonjour – Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC FDJ.Com – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Fassa Bortolo – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Lotto – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Euskaltel-Euskadi – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL <snip So, Mark Hickey of Habanero Cycles, what am I missing here?  These tour riders appear to be going for aerodynamics and a serious reduction in weight.  Not only are Mavic Kyserium SSC SL wheels a "name", but they are also definitely hyperlight and definitely ridden in the tour. The riders ride what their sponsors want them to ride (with certain interesting exceptions).  In the case of the Tour, there is a minimum weight limit for a bike that means an extra few hundred grams in a set of wheels is a virtual non-issue.  These riders also have team and neutral support cars right behind them with spare wheels, and they replace all their equipment very often.  If that sounds like your rides, then by all means…  ;-) Let’s look at the Ksyrium SSC SL.  They go for $800 a pair (ouch). They weigh (marketing weight, of course) 1725g a pair. They use thick aluminum bladed spokes that can’t be as aero as the thinner steel bladed spokes in my own personal (much cheaper) aero wheels.  The rim section is only 25mm deep, so they’re certainly not as aero as my own deeper (and cheaper) aero wheels. If I were going to build a pair of "faster, cheaper wheels", I might do it like this… Record hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 28 spokes, DT Aero Speed bladed spokes.  Keeping with the hyperlight goal, I spec’d alloy nipples since I don’t have to maintain it…  ;-)  Add 35g of you want brass. The end result is a set of VERY reliable and fast wheels that cost less than half as much as the Ksyriums if you can build ‘em yourself (figure $350), and a bit more than that if you have them built. They’re also 67g LIGHTER than the Ksyriums, and though I’m not likely to rent a wind tunnel to check it out, I’d expect them to be more aerodynamic since it’s been shown that thicker spokes have more drag, but there is very little penalty for more spokes.  The deeper rim should more result in a faster wheel than the Ksyrium at any rate. Add to that you’ll be riding on Campy Record hubs (gotta be better than whatever is on the Ksyrium, no matter what), and that you can buy a replacement spoke anywhere and I think the choice is clear. Unless you just happen to be in love with the look of the Ksyrium – or maybe the name?  ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

I have the wheels you speak of .  Actually Velocity Deep V with a Daytona front Hub and 16 spokes and a 28 spoke rear Record Hub.  I also own a set of Kysriums.  I like the Ksyriums much better.  This is just a subjective judgement, but heres some data. Your point about cost is definitely true, but my wheels were closer to $450, not $300.  Try finding a Record hub (rear) for less than $120.   Deep V rims are around $100 a pop. As far as Record hubs being better than the mavic, I don’t agree.  The Mavic hubs are the smoothest hubs I have ever used and I yes I think I can actually feel a significant difference when using these wheels largely due to the hubs. Your weight for the Kysrium SSCs are wrong.  Published for 700cc set is 690g front and 840 rear, which is 1530gr, so no your wheels are not lighter. Using a more Aero rim (like the Deep V) which is 30mm, would push up the weight of your wheels even more, so it would not even be close, I bet the Ksyriums would win by at least 150grams.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see who rides hyperlight wheels: Saeco – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Bonjour – Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC FDJ.Com – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Fassa Bortolo – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Lotto – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Euskaltel-Euskadi – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL <snip So, Mark Hickey of Habanero Cycles, what am I missing here?  These tour riders appear to be going for aerodynamics and a serious reduction in weight.  Not only are Mavic Kyserium SSC SL wheels a "name", but they are also definitely hyperlight and definitely ridden in the tour. The riders ride what their sponsors want them to ride (with certain interesting exceptions).  In the case of the Tour, there is a minimum weight limit for a bike that means an extra few hundred grams in a set of wheels is a virtual non-issue.  These riders also have team and neutral support cars right behind them with spare wheels, and they replace all their equipment very often.  If that sounds like your rides, then by all means…  ;-) Let’s look at the Ksyrium SSC SL.  They go for $800 a pair (ouch). They weigh (marketing weight, of course) 1725g a pair. They use thick aluminum bladed spokes that can’t be as aero as the thinner steel bladed spokes in my own personal (much cheaper) aero wheels.  The rim section is only 25mm deep, so they’re certainly not as aero as my own deeper (and cheaper) aero wheels. If I were going to build a pair of "faster, cheaper wheels", I might do it like this… Record hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 28 spokes, DT Aero Speed bladed spokes.  Keeping with the hyperlight goal, I spec’d alloy nipples since I don’t have to maintain it…  ;-)  Add 35g of you want brass. The end result is a set of VERY reliable and fast wheels that cost less than half as much as the Ksyriums if you can build ‘em yourself (figure $350), and a bit more than that if you have them built. They’re also 67g LIGHTER than the Ksyriums, and though I’m not likely to rent a wind tunnel to check it out, I’d expect them to be more aerodynamic since it’s been shown that thicker spokes have more drag, but there is very little penalty for more spokes.  The deeper rim should more result in a faster wheel than the Ksyrium at any rate. Add to that you’ll be riding on Campy Record hubs (gotta be better than whatever is on the Ksyrium, no matter what), and that you can buy a replacement spoke anywhere and I think the choice is clear. Unless you just happen to be in love with the look of the Ksyrium – or maybe the name?  ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

These are both hyperlight, and are the lightest these manufacturers make, and are ridden in the tour. Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon My original point was that it would be very hard to beat the Mavic Kyserium SSC SL.  I still stand by that assertion.  Fantastic wheel, fantastic, ride on some of the worlds smoothest hubs, increadibly light, and aero.  Very tough to beat indeed. Bill

Response:

Let’s see who rides hyperlight wheels: Saeco – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Bonjour – Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC FDJ.Com – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Fassa Bortolo – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Lotto – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Euskaltel-Euskadi – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL <snip So, Mark Hickey of Habanero Cycles, what am I missing here?  These tour riders appear to be going for aerodynamics and a serious reduction in weight.  Not only are Mavic Kyserium SSC SL wheels a "name", but they are also definitely hyperlight and definitely ridden in the tour.

The riders ride what their sponsors want them to ride (with certain interesting exceptions).  In the case of the Tour, there is a minimum weight limit for a bike that means an extra few hundred grams in a set of wheels is a virtual non-issue.  These riders also have team and neutral support cars right behind them with spare wheels, and they replace all their equipment very often.  If that sounds like your rides, then by all means…  ;-) Let’s look at the Ksyrium SSC SL.  They go for $800 a pair (ouch). They weigh (marketing weight, of course) 1725g a pair. They use thick aluminum bladed spokes that can’t be as aero as the thinner steel bladed spokes in my own personal (much cheaper) aero wheels.  The rim section is only 25mm deep, so they’re certainly not as aero as my own deeper (and cheaper) aero wheels. If I were going to build a pair of "faster, cheaper wheels", I might do it like this… Record hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, 28 spokes, DT Aero Speed bladed spokes.  Keeping with the hyperlight goal, I spec’d alloy nipples since I don’t have to maintain it…  ;-)  Add 35g of you want brass. The end result is a set of VERY reliable and fast wheels that cost less than half as much as the Ksyriums if you can build ‘em yourself (figure $350), and a bit more than that if you have them built. They’re also 67g LIGHTER than the Ksyriums, and though I’m not likely to rent a wind tunnel to check it out, I’d expect them to be more aerodynamic since it’s been shown that thicker spokes have more drag, but there is very little penalty for more spokes.  The deeper rim should more result in a faster wheel than the Ksyrium at any rate. Add to that you’ll be riding on Campy Record hubs (gotta be better than whatever is on the Ksyrium, no matter what), and that you can buy a replacement spoke anywhere and I think the choice is clear. Unless you just happen to be in love with the look of the Ksyrium – or maybe the name?  ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

These are both hyperlight, and are the lightest these manufacturers make, and are ridden in the tour. Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon My original point was that it would be very hard to beat the Mavic Kyserium SSC SL.  I still stand by that assertion.  Fantastic wheel, fantastic, ride on some of the worlds smoothest hubs, increadibly light, and aero.  Very tough to beat indeed. Bill

IMO, they are not hyperlight… LEWs, ADAs, and Tunes are up to 35% lighter AND more aerodynamic. They are not very aero either… the deeper the rim, the more aero; a 25mm or 30mm rim is not very aero compared to what there is out there. don’t know anything about the hub, but for significantly less than the price of the ksyriums, you CAN build a lighter, just as aero wheel with your choice of the best hubs made (record, chris king, hugi 240, etc.). the ksyriums may very well be the best pre-made wheelset out there… but you can still do better if you go custom. cheers, -doug

Response:

Re: Ksyrium.  Till the spokes start breaking…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are both hyperlight, and are the lightest these manufacturers make, and are ridden in the tour. Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon My original point was that it would be very hard to beat the Mavic Kyserium SSC SL.  I still stand by that assertion.  Fantastic wheel, fantastic, ride on some of the worlds smoothest hubs, increadibly light, and aero.  Very tough to beat indeed. Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see who rides hyperlight wheels: Saeco – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Bonjour – Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC FDJ.Com – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Fassa Bortolo – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Lotto – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Euskaltel-Euskadi – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL For sure the Mavic Kyserium SSC SL can be classed as Hyperlight and many of the the tour riders are on them. And, the list goes on.  All of the tour bikes are light as heck, and that includes the wheels.  Not to mention the fact that most are running tubulars which are lighter still.  Check out the rest of the tour bikes via the link below: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2002/features/tourbikes/default Check out Lance’s custom climbing bike and notice the extra weight shaved off of the rim surfaces: http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/tech/?id=tourbikes/TMdaddyyoyo So, Mark Hickey of Habanero Cycles, what am I missing here?  These tour riders appear to be going for aerodynamics and a serious reduction in weight.  Not only are Mavic Kyserium SSC SL wheels a "name", but they are also definitely hyperlight and definitely ridden in the tour. Bill

It all depends on what you call hyperlight… All of the rims mentioned have 30mm or greater rim depth (50 for the carbone)… the ksyriums are the lightest at just over 1500g.  Lew, Hed, Zipp, Tune and ADA all make wheelsets that are lighter AND more aero than any of those listed above… some of them at under 1 kg for a 40mm deep rim wheelset.  Sponsorship has alot to do with equipment selection. I think the only point was that (given a sponsor), the teams are not choosing the lightest wheel the manufacturer makes, but rather a nice, lightweight aero wheel by that manufacturer. Also, there is less penalty to pay for aero compromises in a peloton than in a triathlon. And likewise, there is less weight penalty to pay on a typically flat triathlon bike course thyan in the alps.  Hell, why don’t we all just ride the Tune wheelset with zipp rims that come in at 920 or so grams ? cheers, -doug

Response:

I looked into custom wheels but I could not find a custom wheel builder but have not had much luck in finding someone who builds a lite semi-aero 20 bladed spoke  front and 24 rear.  If anyone knows of one I would appreciate them passing the info on to me. Thanks Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Well due to a couple knee problems I am only going to do a few sprints and a lot of yccle road races next year.  I sold my Tri bike and bought a road bike. I am loking at a couple different race wheels that will suit both. I want a semi deep profile while mantaining low weight for acceleration with the pack.  I wanted to know if anyone had any oppinion on these. Mavic cosmic elite ( not sure if these are a bit too heavy) Mavic KSYRIUM elite ( the rage right now but are they really that good) Velomax tempest or ascent ( don’t know much about these at all but heard the manufacturer was real good) Which one would you buy in my shoes? Are there others I am overlooking in this price range? Thanks Mike

Response:

Let’s see who rides hyperlight wheels: Saeco – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Bonjour – Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC FDJ.Com – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Fassa Bortolo – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL Lotto – Shimano Dua-Ace Carbon Euskaltel-Euskadi – Mavic Kyserium SSC SL For sure the Mavic Kyserium SSC SL can be classed as Hyperlight and many of the the tour riders are on them. And, the list goes on.  All of the tour bikes are light as heck, and that includes the wheels.  Not to mention the fact that most are running tubulars which are lighter still.  Check out the rest of the tour bikes via the link below: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2002/features/tourbikes/default Check out Lance’s custom climbing bike and notice the extra weight shaved off of the rim surfaces: http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/tech/?id=tourbikes/TMdaddyyoyo So, Mark Hickey of Habanero Cycles, what am I missing here?  These tour riders appear to be going for aerodynamics and a serious reduction in weight.  Not only are Mavic Kyserium SSC SL wheels a "name", but they are also definitely hyperlight and definitely ridden in the tour. Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well due to a couple knee problems I am only going to do a few sprints and a lot of yccle road races next year.  I sold my Tri bike and bought a road bike. I am loking at a couple different race wheels that will suit both.  I want a semi deep profile while mantaining low weight for acceleration with the pack.  I wanted to know if anyone had any oppinion on these. Check out what the pro riders ride – they don’t bother with hyper-light "climbing wheels" even when doing 4-5 mountain passes through the Alps.  They’ve (finally!) figured out that aerodynamics trumps weight every time if you want to go fast. The loss in acceleration will be extremely miniscule at most.  If you don’t believe me, try this experiment: Get the lightest front wheel/tire combo you can, and the heaviest aero wheel combo.  Spin one up to ~10mph (simple to do with one twist of the wrist and a couple fingers).  Now spin the other up to the same speed. The DIFFERENCE in total force is all the extra energy you’d need to accelerate the heavier wheel from 25 to 35mph.  OK, you double that for a "bike’s worth" – but it’s still peanuts when you compare it to the aerodynamic drag difference between a light box section rim and a deep aero rim. Mavic cosmic elite ( not sure if these are a bit too heavy) Mavic KSYRIUM elite ( the rage right now but are they really that good) Velomax tempest or ascent ( don’t know much about these at all but heard the manufacturer was real good) I’d recommend avoiding any wheels "with a name".  You’ll simply pay a lot more than the wheels are worth, and often will be buying into reliability and parts procurement problems (particularly with the aluminum (!?) spokes). Which one would you buy in my shoes? I’d sincerely recommend a hand-built set of wheels based on some nice hubs that match your drivetrain (Record or Dura Ace), with some deep aero rims and bladed spokes – quantity determined by your weight. You’ll end up with a wheel that’s as light, as fast, is more reliable, and that costs half as much.  Plus, you’ll be able to get it fixed at any bike store you happen to be near (a big plus).   The most important thing is to choose the wheel builder carefully – a well-built set of wheels is a wonderful thing.  A poorly-built set of wheels is an excercize in futility. Are there others I am overlooking in this price range? There are the Ritchey, which are a lot better values than most, IMHO. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Couldn’t agree more on the custom built wheels comment… been looking into that myself lately… you can get a very light, somewhat aero (or somewhat light, very aero), maintainable custom set built for around $500. On the Ritchey wheels… I’ve looked into those also (i like the concept of more even spoke tension in the rear). I’ve noticed alot of user complaints of spoke breakage and rear hub problems, and also noted these wheels on clearance everywhere (colorado cyclist has them for $150 for the set!). Do you know if there are any problems with the rims alone? the offset on the rear would presumably allow for more even tension, and possibly allow dt revolutions in the rear without the twisting problem of higher tension… that would be a reasonably aero, maintainable, durable wheelset at less than 1500g. any thoughts?

Response:

Well due to a couple knee problems I am only going to do a few sprints and a lot of yccle road races next year.  I sold my Tri bike and bought a road bike. I am loking at a couple different race wheels that will suit both.  I want a semi deep profile while mantaining low weight for acceleration with the pack.  I wanted to know if anyone had any oppinion on these.

Check out what the pro riders ride – they don’t bother with hyper-light "climbing wheels" even when doing 4-5 mountain passes through the Alps.  They’ve (finally!) figured out that aerodynamics trumps weight every time if you want to go fast. The loss in acceleration will be extremely miniscule at most.  If you don’t believe me, try this experiment: Get the lightest front wheel/tire combo you can, and the heaviest aero wheel combo.  Spin one up to ~10mph (simple to do with one twist of the wrist and a couple fingers).  Now spin the other up to the same speed. The DIFFERENCE in total force is all the extra energy you’d need to accelerate the heavier wheel from 25 to 35mph.  OK, you double that for a "bike’s worth" – but it’s still peanuts when you compare it to the aerodynamic drag difference between a light box section rim and a deep aero rim. Mavic cosmic elite ( not sure if these are a bit too heavy) Mavic KSYRIUM elite ( the rage right now but are they really that good) Velomax tempest or ascent ( don’t know much about these at all but heard the manufacturer was real good)

I’d recommend avoiding any wheels "with a name".  You’ll simply pay a lot more than the wheels are worth, and often will be buying into reliability and parts procurement problems (particularly with the aluminum (!?) spokes). Which one would you buy in my shoes?

I’d sincerely recommend a hand-built set of wheels based on some nice hubs that match your drivetrain (Record or Dura Ace), with some deep aero rims and bladed spokes – quantity determined by your weight. You’ll end up with a wheel that’s as light, as fast, is more reliable, and that costs half as much.  Plus, you’ll be able to get it fixed at any bike store you happen to be near (a big plus).   The most important thing is to choose the wheel builder carefully – a well-built set of wheels is a wonderful thing.  A poorly-built set of wheels is an excercize in futility. Are there others I am overlooking in this price range?

There are the Ritchey, which are a lot better values than most, IMHO. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

Hi everyone, Well due to a couple knee problems I am only going to do a few sprints and a lot of yccle road races next year.  I sold my Tri bike and bought a road bike. I am loking at a couple different race wheels that will suit both.  I want a semi deep profile while mantaining low weight for acceleration with the pack.  I wanted to know if anyone had any oppinion on these. Mavic cosmic elite ( not sure if these are a bit too heavy) Mavic KSYRIUM elite ( the rage right now but are they really that good) Velomax tempest or ascent ( don’t know much about these at all but heard the manufacturer was real good) Which one would you buy in my shoes? Are there others I am overlooking in this price range? Thanks Mike

Response:

I have the Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL and the Mavic Cosmic Carbone wheel sets. For everyday riding my choice would be the Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL, especially if low weight, stiffness, and acceleration are what you are looking for.  I think it would be very difficult to find a better set of wheels.  The hubs on both wheel sets are increadibly silky smooth.  The Cosmic Carbone is a very deep dish race wheel, and I love it, but just don’t see it as an everyday wheel. Bill

Response:

Question:

<snip Now, to the bike.  Yep, it really does suck being on that moutain bike.  It was fun, however, passing those fancy road bikes on the hill climbs…

Oh yeah, I’ve been there too, MTBs climb like crazy!  I even put clip-on aero bars on mine to help with the downhills…and if you can spin at 130 rpm, with a 44×11 gear on a 26" wheel you can almost keep up with the roadies!! Well done Kris!! Cheers S. Austin

Response:

Good job! One good thing about your strongest event being the swim, in my experience, is that after you get out of the water, you get to talk with all of your friends as they pass you on the bike and run! You’ll probably end up being fast in all events though. Have fun, and try to keep that feeling you got crossing the finish line in every race! Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all. First of all, thanks for all your support.  I’ve been lurking for a couple months now – trying to get as many hints as I could.  I’m proud to say I completed my first triathlon last Sunday! My story: I’m 30, never was athletic, 6′4", 245 pounds.  It was about five years ago when I stumbled upon swimming – it was the only excercise I could find that wouldn’t get me injured.  Imagine the suprise when I found out that I had a natural talent for it. So, after my 5 years of masters swimming, I decided to try what my fellow master swimmers find easy – the triathlon.  So, I took my Trek 7000 aluminum mountain bike, put some slicks on it, got myself some clipless pedals, and started biking.  Meanwhile, I started back into running.  That was late May. So, there I was – on the shore of Lake Keesus in Merton, Wisconsin on Sunday – the Camp Whitcomb/Mason Triathlon.  A 1/3 mi swim, 22 mile (very very hilly) bike, and a 5k.  I was most apprehensive about the swim – I haven’t been swimming open water much, and, since I’ve never been an athlete, I freak out before all competitions (I’m a basket case before a swim meet – helps with the 50 free!). After the starting horn, I made mistake #1 – I thought, "well, I’ll just kind of get in the water after everybody else toward the middle of the pack" – bad idea.  Next time I’ll sprint that first 100 and get ahead of people.  I found myself working into a nice, long, streamlined stroke, but passing people was no fun – kicked, scratched, dunked, etc.  After the buoy, however, it was clear that I had past the people in my heat. Now, to the bike.  Yep, it really does suck being on that moutain bike.  It was fun, however, passing those fancy road bikes on the hill climbs…only to get passed on the downhill.  The straights sucked, but I hung in there…I sucked down two water bottles of water during the bike. The bike finally ended, and it was off to the run.  It was ugly.  I got some serious sideaches right away.  I don’t know why, but they really weren’t any fun.  I did some walking, but I did manage to finish things up. What a great feeling, and what a fun bunch of people.  My wife and I are hooked – we’re doing another in September, and we’re already picking out our road bikes. Best thing about the race – I finished 60th overall in the swim….that was, again, an easy pace swim.  My wife cranked it and finished 16th overall in the swim…she’s a  monster in the water. Thanks again, Kris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all. First of all, thanks for all your support.  I’ve been lurking for a couple months now – trying to get as many hints as I could.  I’m proud to say I completed my first triathlon last Sunday! My story: I’m 30, never was athletic, 6′4", 245 pounds.  It was about five years ago when I stumbled upon swimming – it was the only excercise I could find that wouldn’t get me injured.  Imagine the suprise when I found out that I had a natural talent for it. So, after my 5 years of masters swimming, I decided to try what my fellow master swimmers find easy – the triathlon.  So, I took my Trek 7000 aluminum mountain bike, put some slicks on it, got myself some clipless pedals, and started biking.  Meanwhile, I started back into running.  That was late May. So, there I was – on the shore of Lake Keesus in Merton, Wisconsin on Sunday – the Camp Whitcomb/Mason Triathlon.  A 1/3 mi swim, 22 mile (very very hilly) bike, and a 5k.  I was most apprehensive about the swim – I haven’t been swimming open water much, and, since I’ve never been an athlete, I freak out before all competitions (I’m a basket case before a swim meet – helps with the 50 free!). After the starting horn, I made mistake #1 – I thought, "well, I’ll just kind of get in the water after everybody else toward the middle of the pack" – bad idea.  Next time I’ll sprint that first 100 and get ahead of people.  I found myself working into a nice, long, streamlined stroke, but passing people was no fun – kicked, scratched, dunked, etc.  After the buoy, however, it was clear that I had past the people in my heat. Now, to the bike.  Yep, it really does suck being on that moutain bike. It was fun, however, passing those fancy road bikes on the hill climbs…only to get passed on the downhill.  The straights sucked, but I hung in there…I sucked down two water bottles of water during the bike. The bike finally ended, and it was off to the run.  It was ugly.  I got some serious sideaches right away.  I don’t know why, but they really weren’t any fun.  I did some walking, but I did manage to finish things up. What a great feeling, and what a fun bunch of people.  My wife and I are hooked – we’re doing another in September, and we’re already picking out our road bikes. Best thing about the race – I finished 60th overall in the swim….that was, again, an easy pace swim.  My wife cranked it and finished 16th overall in the swim…she’s a  monster in the water. Thanks again, Kris

Great job!  I commend you and anyone who does a tri on a mountain bike…Obviously you had to work a lot harder than most to get through that bike segment.  Kinda of reminiscent of pre-1986 races before aerobars. My first to races were actually on my step-mother’s 150 lb schwinn varsity.   Again congrats on doing your first race!

Response:

Hi all. First of all, thanks for all your support.  I’ve been lurking for a couple months now – trying to get as many hints as I could.  I’m proud to say I completed my first triathlon last Sunday! My story: I’m 30, never was athletic, 6′4", 245 pounds.  It was about five years ago when I stumbled upon swimming – it was the only excercise I could find that wouldn’t get me injured.  Imagine the suprise when I found out that I had a natural talent for it. So, after my 5 years of masters swimming, I decided to try what my fellow master swimmers find easy – the triathlon.  So, I took my Trek 7000 aluminum mountain bike, put some slicks on it, got myself some clipless pedals, and started biking.  Meanwhile, I started back into running.  That was late May. So, there I was – on the shore of Lake Keesus in Merton, Wisconsin on Sunday – the Camp Whitcomb/Mason Triathlon.  A 1/3 mi swim, 22 mile (very very hilly) bike, and a 5k.  I was most apprehensive about the swim – I haven’t been swimming open water much, and, since I’ve never been an athlete, I freak out before all competitions (I’m a basket case before a swim meet – helps with the 50 free!). After the starting horn, I made mistake #1 – I thought, "well, I’ll just kind of get in the water after everybody else toward the middle of the pack" – bad idea.  Next time I’ll sprint that first 100 and get ahead of people.  I found myself working into a nice, long, streamlined stroke, but passing people was no fun – kicked, scratched, dunked, etc.  After the buoy, however, it was clear that I had past the people in my heat. Now, to the bike.  Yep, it really does suck being on that moutain bike.  It was fun, however, passing those fancy road bikes on the hill climbs…only to get passed on the downhill.  The straights sucked, but I hung in there…I sucked down two water bottles of water during the bike. The bike finally ended, and it was off to the run.  It was ugly.  I got some serious sideaches right away.  I don’t know why, but they really weren’t any fun.  I did some walking, but I did manage to finish things up. What a great feeling, and what a fun bunch of people.  My wife and I are hooked – we’re doing another in September, and we’re already picking out our road bikes. Best thing about the race – I finished 60th overall in the swim….that was, again, an easy pace swim.  My wife cranked it and finished 16th overall in the swim…she’s a  monster in the water. Thanks again, Kris

Response:

Question:

I have been running/racing about 5 years.  I am a male, 31.  Here is the problem: On October 23 I completed the Great Floridian Triathlon (2.4m swim, 112m bike, 26.2mile run).  Remarkably I did not feel too bad so rested for a week and then did some hard training (higher intensity but not too much mileage) and ran a 5K on November 12th and then the Philadelphia marathon on November 20th (PRs in both but I fell apart in the ‘thon).  Since the ‘thon I have just not felt the same.  Trouble concentrating, not sleeping well, lack of desire to train (I had planned on taking it easy until the end of the year anyway), and a general sluggish feeling.  Today I donated blood at work and they informed me that my blood pressure is up.  (130/68 used to be <110/<70) I am going to see my doctor on Saturday, but I would like to hear the opinions of the folks here.  Is a couple more weeks of rest all I need? Thanks, Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running/racing about 5 years.  I am a male, 31.  Here is the problem: On October 23 I completed the Great Floridian Triathlon (2.4m swim, 112m bike, 26.2mile run).  Remarkably I did not feel too bad so rested for a week and then did some hard training (higher intensity but not too much mileage) and ran a 5K on November 12th and then the Philadelphia marathon on November 20th (PRs in both but I fell apart in the ‘thon).  Since the ‘thon I have just not felt the same.  Trouble concentrating, not sleeping well, lack of desire to train (I had planned on taking it easy until the end of the year anyway), and a general sluggish feeling.  Today I donated blood at work and they informed me that my blood pressure is up.  (130/68 used to be <110/<70) I am going to see my doctor on Saturday, but I would like to hear the opinions of the folks here.  Is a couple more weeks of rest all I need? Thanks, Paul

Hey, GFT Roomie!! Didn’t I tell you my post IMC problems from last year? I did basically the same thing you did, including falling apart at the Jacksonville Marathon. I spiraled down from that with a series of injuries, etc, all winter. Take some real time off over the holidays. Indulge yourself. Enjoy your mom’s cooking. Run a little, but do it for fun. You didn’t recover enough in November, so you need to do it now. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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So Mike (or anyone else), what can you tell me about the Jacksonville Marathon?  I’m signed up to do it this coming Dec 18th.  It will be marathon number 13 for me.  I’m planning on just doing this one for fun (no particular time goals) on a short vacation to get away from Michigan weather for a few days. Bob in Kalamazoo

<snip I did basically the same thing you did, including falling apart at the Jacksonville Marathon.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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So Mike (or anyone else), what can you tell me about the Jacksonville Marathon?  I’m signed up to do it this coming Dec 18th.  It will be marathon number 13 for me.  I’m planning on just doing this one for fun (no particular time goals) on a short vacation to get away from Michigan weather for a few days. Bob in Kalamazoo

Hi Bob, It’s a great race. It’s very well supported and goes through some of the prettiest neighborhoods in Jacksonville. Lots of trees and fine houses. The finish is inside a stadium with a 3/4 lap to the line. They announce your name and home town to the crowd as you finish. But best of all, it’s FLAT! I don’t know why more folks don’t look at it to qualify for Boston. The weather is usually cool and great for running. You’ll enjoy it, I’m sure. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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Sounds like hypoglycemia.  You probably need to add some body fat. Eat more – move less. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running/racing about 5 years.  I am a male, 31.  Here is the problem: On October 23 I completed the Great Floridian Triathlon (2.4m swim, 112m bike, 26.2mile run).  Remarkably I did not feel too bad so rested for a week and then did some hard training (higher intensity but not too much mileage) and ran a 5K on November 12th and then the Philadelphia marathon on November 20th (PRs in both but I fell apart in the ‘thon).  Since the ‘thon I have just not felt the same.  Trouble concentrating, not sleeping well, lack of desire to train (I had planned on taking it easy until the end of the year anyway), and a general sluggish feeling.  Today I donated blood at work and they informed me that my blood pressure is up.  (130/68 used to be <110/<70) I am going to see my doctor on Saturday, but I would like to hear the opinions of the folks here.  Is a couple more weeks of rest all I need? Thanks, Paul

Response:

you stud! take some time off

Response:

Question:

ok, here’s the list (as of friday night) of rst:ers doing the bonelli race sunday: larry himmel gary mcmurtrey & queen carla andrew duncan, scott & 30+ other UCSB gaucho-types peggy mcdowell-cramer i’ll bring goodies.  make yourselves known by a sign or such, ok? peggy

Response:

<<ok, here’s the list (as of friday night) of rst:ers doing the bonelli race sunday: larry himmel gary mcmurtrey & queen carla andrew duncan, scott & 30+ other UCSB gaucho-types peggy mcdowell-cramer i’ll bring goodies.  make yourselves known by a sign or such, ok? peggy Just look for our club banner Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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I saw the banner but no one was around.  I had to leave shortly after it was all over, though.  Hope everyone had a good race. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<ok, here’s the list (as of friday night) of rst:ers doing the bonelli race sunday: larry himmel gary mcmurtrey & queen carla andrew duncan, scott & 30+ other UCSB gaucho-types peggy mcdowell-cramer i’ll bring goodies.  make yourselves known by a sign or such, ok? peggy Just look for our club banner Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

I saw the banner but no one was around.  I had to leave shortly after it was

all over, though. Sorry about that Larry. We all got talked into continuing the workout by adding another 5 miles around the lake.  Hope everyone had a good race.

Great race once the feeling came back to my feet. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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Question:

I hope they bust him out! I’m sick of these cheats. Every year we have to go up against cheaters who take the prestige and glory from the real (clean) champions. Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the rumpus on the announcement re a positive drug test by Dennis Mitchell? Has the second sample been tested? WIll the US lose the 4X100 Gold from the Goodwill Games? Ken Parker Runner’s Web www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site.

Response:

What’s the rumpus on the announcement re a positive drug test by Dennis Mitchell? Has the second sample been tested? WIll the US lose the 4X100 Gold from the Goodwill Games? Ken Parker Runner’s Web www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site.

Response:

I hope they bust him out! I’m sick of these cheats. Every year we have to go up against cheaters who take the prestige and glory from the real (clean) champions. Brian

Now tell us how you REALLY feel?  :)  I think we should wait for the second test for verification before we shave his head  for the leather head brace.  If  the second test shows drugs then save a place for me to help pull the lever. I always wonder what makes people resort to drugs to get the upper hand?  Just thinking out loud. These Are My Opinions !

Response:

[ Material about Dennis Mitchell's positive drug test deleted ] : I always wonder what makes people resort to drugs to get : the upper hand?  Just thinking out loud. Money? Fame? I personally can’t understand how an athlete on performance enhancing drugs can stand on the starting line, knowing that he/she is cheating, and denying "clean" athletes their glory. But then again, I *believe* that a big percentage of athletes at the elite level are doped. It’s a shame to see Mitchell get caught. I’ve always liked him, and thought he was clean. Too bad, I guess … –Shishir

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I hope they bust him out! I’m sick of these cheats. Every year we have to go up against cheaters who take the prestige and glory from the real (clean) champions. Brian Now tell us how you REALLY feel?  :)  I think we should wait for the second test for verification before we shave his head  for the leather head brace.  If  the second test shows drugs then save a place for me to help pull the lever.

        Keep in mind that Mitchell’s test was positive for the infamous testosterone:epitestosterone ratio.  I am waiting to see the research this level was based on. I always wonder what makes people resort to drugs to get the upper hand?  Just thinking out loud.

        1)  Everyone else is doing it so I need to dope to stay even         2)  Everyone thinks #1 is true so they dope         3) Money (which may be #1)         4) You have gone as far as talent and that level of training will take you so to get to the next level one must dope – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -These Are My Opinions !

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        [ Material about Dennis Mitchell's positive drug test deleted ]         : I always wonder what makes people resort to drugs to get     : the upper hand?  Just thinking out loud.         Money? Fame?         I personally can’t understand how an athlete on performance enhancing     drugs can stand on the starting line, knowing that he/she is cheating,     and denying "clean" athletes their glory. But then again, I *believe*     that a big percentage of athletes at the elite level are doped.         It’s a shame to see Mitchell get caught. I’ve always liked him, and     thought he was clean. Too bad, I guess …                 He Was clean.  When you look at pictures of him a few years ago, and compare them to how he has been looking recently, I’m surprised he got away with it as long as he did! — Derek Smale

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     I think we should wait for the second test for verification before we shave     his head  for the leather head brace. The second sample is exactly the same as the first.  The moment they get the sample, they split it in 2, so the chances of him passing this test the second time round are *very* small!      If  the second test shows drugs then     save a place for me to help pull the lever. Yeah, me too! — Derek Smale

Response:

The second sample is exactly the same as the first.  The moment they get the sample, they split it in 2, so the chances of him passing this test the second time round are *very* small!

I’m aware of the fact it is the same sample but the system sends a sample to two different labs  and BOTH must confirm the same results.  I’m sure we all are aware that labs are far from perfect and this is a good  check and balance. What I’m not sure is what happens if you get one pos and one neg response.  Take another?  If you take another test, the time lapse works in favor of the athlete. Anyone know if this has happened before and what they do? These Are My Opinions !

Response:

I always wonder what makes people resort to drugs to get the upper hand?  Just thinking out loud.

if you’re one of the best, and you believe that everyone else is cheating just enough so that they won’t get caught. … I recall a Sports Illustrated article a dozen years ago about an NFL player who said he needed the steroids to compete with all of the other players who were doing it. he didn’t think anyone in the sport was clean, so he thought it was perfectly acceptable to take some himself.

Response:

      Keep in mind that Mitchell’s test was positive for the infamous testosterone:epitestosterone ratio.  I am waiting to see the research this level was based on. yes, no doubt that the ratio was just as they said. being a chemist myself, I know that very little can go wrong with the actual test. but the question is: does this ratio vary by much in men?, and was Mitchell’s ratio naturally higher than normal? I want to see numbers and statistics.

I have posted on this several times in the past that this test is badly flawed, particularly for women (Slaney and Modahl cases highlighted this).  Also I believe that the established procedure for ‘cheats’ is to inject both testosterone and epi-testosterone in the appropriate ratio.  Thus anyone actually taking the stuff should pass the test!  Because it is a ratio test you can fail by having a low epitestosterone reading, in fact there is a syndrome which can occur in teenage boys where no e-t is produced in the body at all thus the ratio is huge.  A French squash player was once banned for this reason despite medical evidence of the syndrome, fortunately this is a temporary effect and as he got older the more normal metabolism kicked in. I think the data the test is based on is fairly limited for it to be any good it would need to be based on a large population of athletes who were known not to be supplementing at all hours of their daily cycle and while in training.  Friends of mine who are elite sprinters are tested as often as 10 times per year both in and out of competition, the testers can literally turn up at your doorstep and demand a sample, failure to provide one can lead to a ban, you are supposed to notify your federation where you are at all times so that you can be tested.  I understood that a new test for testosterone was being investigated but haven’t heard any more recently. Phil.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       Keep in mind that Mitchell’s test was positive for the infamous testosterone:epitestosterone ratio.  I am waiting to see the research this level was based on. yes, no doubt that the ratio was just as they said. being a chemist myself, I know that very little can go wrong with the actual test. but the question is: does this ratio vary by much in men?, and was Mitchell’s ratio naturally higher than normal? I want to see numbers and statistics. I have posted on this several times in the past that this test is badly flawed, particularly for women (Slaney and Modahl cases highlighted this).  Also I believe that the established procedure for ‘cheats’ is to inject both

Is this not the same thing (test that is) that got Ben Johnson banned the second time? — JerryB Keep On Truckin’ Running, Zambonis, Employment, Sports and more… http://www.windsor.igs.net/~zamboni

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       Keep in mind that Mitchell’s test was positive for the infamous testosterone:epitestosterone ratio.  I am waiting to see the research this level was based on. yes, no doubt that the ratio was just as they said. being a chemist myself, I know that very little can go wrong with the actual test. but the question is: does this ratio vary by much in men?, and was Mitchell’s ratio naturally higher than normal? I want to see numbers and statistics. I have posted on this several times in the past that this test is badly flawed, particularly for women (Slaney and Modahl cases highlighted this).  Also I believe that the established procedure for ‘cheats’ is to inject both Is this not the same thing (test that is) that got Ben Johnson banned the second time? —

I donn’t recall the reason for the 2nd failure the first time was not for testosterone but the presence of a synthetic steroid. Phil.

Response:

Question:

ruefully) cheers Sam

Response:

ruefully) cheers Sam

I just got the issue!  A funny side note to this:  I ordered Triathlete for my brothers b-day(12/21) and they told me they would send a gift card to him right but guess which issue they said he was going to start at?!….February!!  I should tell him that he’ll start getting it sometime in March… — Tri Your Hardest!   /O    ___o      o      ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)     /           Darrin Bartlett

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know when and where this triathlon will be aired?

Response:

Does anyone know when and where this triathlon will be aired?

The ggp web site (http://www.ggp.com) has a listing of when the race will be aired. So many miles to go and so little time.        | Lehigh University Therefore, I must go faster.                   | Department of Mech Eng & Mech   _           __0       o                      | Packard Lab ___o_  +   _ <,_   + <| = good night’s sleep| 19 Packard Ave ~~~~~~     (_)/_(_)     –                     | Bethlehem, PA 18015

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Try www.ggp.com for tv listings.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have any info. on the new Nike Town being constructed on Newbury St. in Boston? Specifically, when it is supposed to be opening and who to contact for job openings.

Response:

she is from Boston and might know. Regards, Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

Response:

Question:

- I don’t know if anyone was DQ’ed or penalized for drafting, they didn’t post results by the time I left.  A few people were DQ’ed for chinstrap and helmet violations.

Can someone take a minute and explain what the violations (or conversely the rules) are for chinstraps and helmets? Thanx.

Response:

I am posting this reply for Sally Taggart.  She wanted to provide another perspective on the race. As another participant at Leon’s on July 11, I would like to add a couple of comments to your commentary on the race. Having participated at Nationals in Cleveland last year as well as Leon’s in 1990 and 1991, I was ecstatic to see the race to Hammond, IN.  Leon may put on a "no frills" affair but at least it is a race catered to the athletes……i.e., no pros were there, the roads were in great condition, there were Tri-Fed officials on the course, there was sufficient room to maneuver on the course, the transition area was fair to everyone. Good old Wolf Lake may be a little murky, but the water is clean and I didn’t see any indications on the news that the water was unsafe to swim due to the bacteria content as I did last year with Lake Erie in Cleveland. As far as the drafting on the bike course, at least it was significantly better this year.  I will agree there was some…..in this day, it is almost impossible to convince athletes not to draft no matter how much room they are given on a bike course.  This (from my perspective) appears to be more of a problem with Tri-Fed officials not enforcing the rules, and a hell  of a lot of the athletes not wanting to follow them than the course that Leon provided us.  One other nice thing that Leon does for us is make sure that all the pot holes are filled in on the freeway…..it sure makes the course nicer. Also, what was smelling on the run was the steel plant not the oil refinery near the course….trust me….most of my bike training routes are near chemical plants and oil refineries in the Houston area. I do hope that your wife is feeling better.  When I passed her on the run, she was weaving all over the place and looked in bad shape. My personal comments on the heat and humidity were there wasn’t any……however, having to train in Houston, where it hasn’t been below 75 degrees in six weeks (nor less than 95% humidity in the morning!) certainly changes that perspective.  :) I hope that Tri-Fed returns the national championships to Leon’s again…It is a great race and well deserving of the accolades it gets.  Also, I was just glad to see a race that was better than last year’s national championships.  I just hope that next year’s race in Columbia is as well run as Leon’s was this year.

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Sorry about the length, but it was a BIG race! Todd Jensen                                  o AT&T Bell Labs             ___^o_    __o    <| (708) 979-1254                     _ <_     Leon’s Triathlon – [1.5K swim|40K bike|10k run]         OVERALL MALE:   Timothy DeBoom          1:49:xx         OVERALL FEMALE: Anne Curi               2:05:xx Hammond, IN (7/11) – One of the Midwest’s most industrial and toxic cities played host to the Tri-Fed/USA National Amateur Triathlon Championships. The race was pretty much a no-frills affair – no host hotel, no big expo, no money.  Just a T-shirt and the chance to compete against most of the best amateur triathletes in the nation.  Unlike the Nationals last year where I tried to peak and taper for a good race, this year I trained hard up to the race and tried to focus on having a good time instead of how badly I would finish compared to the front runners.  The morning of the race, my wife and I woke up at 4:45AM in our own bed, loaded the car, and set off for Indiana. When we arrived at 6:15AM, the transition area was already crowded and people were out warming up almost 2 hours before the race started.  The mostly sunny sky, high humidity, and early morning temperature of 72F pointed to a hot day. I had been quaffing water the whole day before and all morning on my quest to be a camel. While I was setting up in the transition area, the announcer said Tri-Fed officials had measured the lake temperature and wetsuits would be allowed. Seeing as the lake was 79 the day before and the night had been very warm, this sounded suspicious and I was wondering if Leon had talked them into forgetting about their new "no-wetsuit if 78 degrees or above" rule, especially since the flyer for the race said wetsuits would be allowed no matter what and Body Glove is a major sponsor.  I was happy with the decision, as I always feel more comfortable in open water with a wetsuit. Everyone gave Leon a big round of applause while he waded out in the water waiting to start the race.  Everyone seems to really apppreciate his efforts. This year the 30-34 year-old men went first, as ESPN was covering the race and wanted the National Champion to come out of the first wave.  All women under 35 went in the second wave.  I was in the third wave of 25-29 year-old men.  I watched my wife Lauren have a good start in the swim.  Five minutes later I was running through the water, dolphining for a few strokes, and then fighting for position in the pack.  Suprisingly, I never felt nervous for this race and was actually having fun trying to keep up in the murky water.  The swim was a straight out-and-back, and I was able to draft almost the whole way. I wanted to do under 25 minutes, but as I washed back onto shore only 23:40 had passed on my watch.  I did a double take to make sure my watch hadn’t stopped, as this was 4 minutes faster than last year.  I have to thank my wife for getting my butt into the pool for some intense workouts. I had a good transition, and was out on the bike course around 25:00.  My outlandish helmet cover evoked quite a few comments from spectators and volunteers on the way out.  I settled into a steady speed around 25MPH as the bike started into a slight headwind.  The first five miles of the bike traced the run route, and after a few miles everyone was herded into the coned- off center lane.  This caused quite a bit of congestion, and I found it hard and dangerous to pass people.  I was worried I had gone too hard during the swim and was riding a bit slower than I had planned.  After about five miles, it was time to turn onto the overhead expressway, totally closed to traffic, that makes this race what it is.  Just after I got on the big highway, a few 20-24 year-olds from the fourth wave caught me.  I figured they were some of the leaders in their age group, as I had only been passed by a couple of them in the water.  I decided to go for it, shifted up, and held the same pace as them. Then a pack of about 10 guys more caught up, but never passed.  Great, now I was stuck in a pack of about 12 guys, all motoring for Team USA spots.  I tried staying at the front of the pack, so I wouldn’t get DQ’ed for drafting, but every once and a while one or two guys would come around me balls to the wall, hit the wind, and then fall back behind in the draft.  We were averaging about 27-28MPH even with overpass slopes.  Even with all three lanes open, everyone wanted to be in the same lane so they could shave the corners.  I found myself passing people on the shoulder.  Soon, a Tri-Fed offical on a motorcycle was yelling at the pack to break it up and flashing the yellow warning sign.  He followed us for about ten miles, but it never broke up.  As for me, I just kept in front of these guys as much as possible.  Near the turnaround, one of the guys behind yells "on your left" and wants me to move so he can pass.  As he rode up alongside me he couldn’t hold his speed because he lost the draft.  I finally blew up and yelled, "If you’re going to pass, *!#%$ pass!"  I was sick and tired of these guys, shifted up a gear, and sprinted for about a 100m lead. On the way back I thought we would have a tailwind, and put my head down as I was doing over 30MPH.  But once again, those same 10-12 guys caught me and then settled back to my pace.  I got caught behind a few guys and tried to stay legal as much as possible.  Some clouds appeared and suddenly the wind shifted from a light southerly breeze to a northeast wind.  My speed started to drop suddenly and the upslopes became tough.  The only good thing is the combination of the wind and a long overpass broke up the pack.  I got off at the Calumet/41 exit and turned toward the transition area.  I averaged just over 25MPH on the bike, somewhat lower than I expected, but figured it was due to the changing wind conditions.  As I racked my bike I saw Rob Wood just leaving his bike for the run.  Then I knew the bike was slow this year as Rob is an excellent cyclist and was 10th in our age-group last year, beating me by about 13 minutes overall.  Now I was really pumped and knew I was having a decent race.  It was a long run from my bike through the transition to the run start, and I must have been in oxygen debt already as I can’t remember what time I saw on my watch – somewhere around 1:25, I think. The clouds had disappeared, the wind had died down, and the sun was beginning to really heat things up as I chugged down the road.  Just before the 1-mile mark I though I was going to lose my breakfast, as the chemical plant on the side of the road was spewing out some really noxious odors.  But I kept my cool and fell into a comfortable but fast stride.  Rob had shifted gears and was now way ahead of me.  I kept feeling better the entire run and was passing many more people than were passing me.  A lot of people looked really bad and seemed to be suffering.  My legs felt great so I opened up my stride at the turnaround and picked up my pace.  Since I got off the bike I had an urge to pee, but didn’t want to stop.  I figured it was a good sign that I was well hydrated, so I didn’t bother to drink any water on the run.  Instead, I just poured one or two cups of the cool stuff over my head at each handup. With two miles to go I caught my wife.  I was very surprised, as I thought we would be on course for a similiar time.  She was running very slowly for her, so I tapped her shoulder and told her to hang on for the finish.  She said, "I love you" (it was our first anniversary), and I continued on.  Lauren never made it to the finish.  She overheated, became clutzsy and delerious, and decided to quit around the 5-mile mark.  At the time she was the fifth women overall.  I spent the better part of a half-hour after I finished trying to find her while she got an ambulance ride to the finish. She became very ill and will be feeling the effects of heat exhaustion for a while.  Too bad, because she was having the race of her life. I moving along at a good clip when I saw Roy Nilsen.  I had never beat him before in a race so I sprinted by him near the one mile mark and just kept going until the finish.  At first I thought the run start was the finish, but as I got nearer I saw the finish line was another few blocks away.  I was wheezing big time down the home stretch, but felt the thrill of finishing strong as I crossed the line and stopped my watch at 2:01:00.  A PR by almost 5 minutes. Leon shook my hand and asked if I was okay.  I assured him I was as I almost tripped and stumbled my way down the finish chute. RACE NOTES: – Many people were hauled away to the hospital for heat stroke – mostly younger people who were trying to red-line it the whole way in the heat. – I don’t know if anyone was DQ’ed or penalized for drafting, they didn’t post results by the time I left.  A few people were DQ’ed for chinstrap and helmet violations. – The run was short, 6.05M instead of 6.2M. – Team USA will be made up of the top 12 in each age group, with unclaimed spots being passed down to the top 20. – Once again, the overall male winner came from a wave that wasn’t the first. Could it be because of the draft you can get while passing people from earlier waves during the bike?

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Question:

Has anyone worn a heart rate monitor during a marathon to monitor pace? If so, did it help, or would you recommend relying on "instinct" instead?

I used one during Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth MN on June 19 and found it very helpfull. I usually go out too fast and suffer later. It still is a bit of a problem as it takes awhile for the heart rate to reach the the value that you will want to run at, but I think after a few trials you can determine good values for the first mile or so of the race. Despite the temptation to ignore the monitor because I felt so "good", I was able to run with negative splits – second half about one minute faster than the first half. At age 62 I needed an average heart rate of about 138 to finish in 3:12, but I think everyone would have to use a marathon to calibrate the monitor for his own heart characteristics. I have never felt better after a marathon than I did at this race, so i’ll continue to use the monitor. I use it in shorter races also.    Greg Prom                         Honeywell Systems & Research Center    Tel. (612) 951-7358               MN65-2500    Fax  (612) 951-7438               3660 Technology Drive —    Greg Prom                         Honeywell Systems & Research Center    Tel. (612) 951-7358               MN65-2500    Fax  (612) 951-7438               3660 Technology Drive

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon,rec.running

Has anyone worn a heart rate monitor during a marathon to monitor pace? If so, did it help, or would you recommend relying on "instinct" instead?

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon,rec.running Has anyone worn a heart rate monitor during a marathon to monitor pace? If so, did it help, or would you recommend relying on "instinct" instead?

Yeah, I friend of mine uses his HR moniter all the time to race 1/2 marathons and above. In his last two marathons he set his moniter to `beap’ if he went above or below 5% of his threshold level. On both occasions he has run well (2.30 and 2.33) and was able to negative split the latter race. He finds the benefit is that it keeps him from going too fast early. Relying on instinct may not be `as good’ as I think most folk tend to go too fast early in a marathon. In Peter Coe and David Martin’s `Training Distance Runners’ (A supurb book for anybody interested in training and physiology for elite performances), they say, any deviation of 2% from `ideal pace (i.e. just under threshold) will result in a slowing down toward the end of the marathon. Just my 0.02 worth. Tim

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A couple questions for the net:  - do many of you triathletes/runners get massages done and if    so why, what the benefits/hazards, etc  - if massages are good, when are they most effective    - during peak training    - at taper    - after a hard race    - etc — Brendan R. Leitch                           Bell Northern Research Ltd. DMS Supernode Distributed Operating Systems       (The Big Nerd Ranch) Voice: (613) 763-9425            FAX: (613) 763-8864         ESN: 393-9425                  ESN: 393-8864 Surface Mail: MS 145, P.O. BOX 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7

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