Question:

For years I used clip on Aero Bars with regular shifters and brakes.  The theory was that how often do you have to shift or break anyway?  I finally moved to the bar end shifters on the end of the aerobars when I got some Angel bars.  The result is that I tend to shift more since it is easier.  I don’t know if it is faster but it is sure a lot more convenient. By the way the Bar end shifters were a real bitch to put on the angel bars. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

Definitely clipless pedals for all the reasons stated in the previous post. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

I say go with STI (brake lever) shifters. This goes against what a lot of people feel. If you do all of your riding alone, on flat courses, maybe bar-end shifters are right for you. If you’re like the rest of us you sometimes do (or will) ride with others in a group or you ride hills. With STI shifters you can shift without changing position. I’ve used both and it’s much easier to shift with STI while you’re in the aero position than it is to take your hand off the bars and reach for the bar-end shifters while your struggling up a hill or riding with a group. STI gives you more control over your bike. I think most triathletes just think of bar-end shifters as going hand in hand with tri-bikes. If you can, ride a bike with each system and see which one you like. The best shifters are the ones you feel most comfortable with. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

Race wheels do make a difference. The faster you are the bigger the advantage. Still, I would wait until you have a couple seasons under your belt before buying them. He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike?

No, that was probably lack of brick training. You should periodically do a bike ride followed by a 3 or 4 mile run to get your legs accustomed to running while fatigued from biking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts:

If your bicycle is adequate – which it seems to be – it’s unlikely that you’ll see much measurable improvement from a new one.  There’s nothing wrong with a new bike if you can afford it and will use it.  Just don’t expect a magic carpet. 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

No contest here.  Clipless pedals (Look, Speedplay, etc.) are far better than soft soled shoes and toe straps.  The stiff soled shoes keep your feet from flexing and bending.  This causes less foot pain and better power transfer. Having your feet locked to the pedals makes for a more efficient stroke. Clipless pedals are much easier to manage than a strap that you have to tighten and loosen, especially during training. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

My setup has evolved to bar end shifters on Syntace C2s and cowhorns.  I’m extremely pleased with it for a racing setup.  Many triathletes stick with their STI shifters even when they’re using cow horns.  My setup is easier to shift from the aero position. The other setup requires you to move your hands down to the drops in order to shift.  I prefer not to move my hands around when I’m on the aero bars. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

Aero wheels are supposedly one of the most productive bike upgrades.  I settled on HED3s but I really can’t see a measurable improvement given the conditions where I’ve used them.  The only way to know for sure would be to  find a suitable stretch of road to do a few time trials where I could switch wheels and compare times.  Until I get the ambition to do that, it’s just another leap of faith. 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike

Another tough question.  It’s accepted that aero bars provide a significant advantage, especially on a flat course.  Seat angle theories and preferences vary.  John Cobb’s recent "Big Slam" position returns to road bike geometry with shorter aero bars.  The most important aspect is to get the proper fit.  Aside from that it’s a matter of going through the evaluations and opinions to find the ones most agreeable to you. I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff.

There are worse places to spend your money.  If having good equipment makes you feel good, then maybe you’ll train and race a little better. Larry

Response:

I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff.

Can’t add much to what has already been said. It feels really cool to have a brand new bike but  remember that bicycles suffer from the law of diminishing returns – the more you spend, the less is the return. It’s mostly the engine that counts. I’ve seen people on old clunkers win their age group. In one race I passed  a brand new Cervelo P2K while riding my old 12 sp. road bike but at the same race was passed (blush) by a  mountain bike fitted with road tires.  IMO I would stick to a road bike until you start to think about half or IM distances. If you can afford only one bike right now stick with a road bike as it is far more versatile. Even the pros spend most of their training time on road bikes. Fit your current $600. road bike with a front aero wheel and a pair of "big slam" aero http://www.bicyclesports.com/accessories/aerobars/slambars.html  bars and you’ve got a bike that will do 98% what anything else will do.

Response:

Approx $120 for clip on aero bars and increase your avg speed by around 2 mph. Clipless pedals (I prefer Look), makes for more efficient transfer of power from your muscles to the bike. A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

If you don’t mind one more opinion… I’ve ridden a lot of road miles and it’s the engine not the chasis. With that being said, I believe clipless pedals are a necessity. Recently I went to a QR Tequila. This is the first time I’ve ridden with anything but Dura Ace and IMO, the Shimano 105 is VERY acceptable. Also, the aero bars were a new experience and now, like the clipless pedals, I believe they are a necessity. A couple of years ago, I did my first sprint tri and posted the question, "Why do triathletes use such big gears?". I got some smart and some smart ass answers but now I know. The body position allows greater leverage so it’s easier to push the big gears. You’ll have to decide for yourself if there’s a penalty for this on the run. I picked up a 2001 QR Tequila for $1,030 which included delivery. Works for me… but some people like Fords, some people like Chevy’s and some… well, you get the point. Enjoy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed.

Actually, aerodynamics is much more important. Studies have demonstrated that bike weight is relatively unimportant accept upon ascending hills, such as if running the Alps section in the Tour de France, etc. . On a two to one ratio in importance the weight of drive train/wheels is is more significant than the non rotating bike parts such as the frame and even that isn’t all that big a deal. Also, it’s the combined weight of the rider and bike. Generally it’s easier to lose a few lbs. off the rider than the bike!! Spending an extra grand for a frame that is a lb. or two lighter is a very expensive purchase for what is really gained.

Response:

I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike?

See if you can test ride a Tri bike and use it in a brick.  I find a forward position helps me feel more ready for a run.  Sound like you are competitive and an aero frame and aero wheels combined with some more bricks could close that "2 minutes" pretty quickly.  You got money burning a hole, what better way to spend it then on bike stuff IMO.  And yes on clipless and bar end shifters. I don’t think bullhorns will make much of a diffence though. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

I am considering spending a lot of money to buy some Zipp wheels.   After your comment I am wondering if this is wise.  Do you think the benefit from upgrading wheels is worth the cash? Thanks in advance…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed. Actually, aerodynamics is much more important. Studies have demonstrated that bike weight is relatively unimportant accept upon ascending hills, such as if running the Alps section in the Tour de France, etc. . On a two to one ratio in importance the weight of drive train/wheels is is more significant than the non rotating bike parts such as the frame and even that isn’t all that big a deal. Also, it’s the combined weight of the rider and bike. Generally it’s easier to lose a few lbs. off the rider than the bike!! Spending an extra grand for a frame that is a lb. or two lighter is a very expensive purchase for what is really gained.

Response:

I am considering spending a lot of money to buy some Zipp wheels.   After your comment I am wondering if this is wise.  Do you think the benefit from upgrading wheels is worth the cash?

Everything I have read indicates that aerobars and aerowheels are the two biggest improvements that can be made to a bike and are highly recommended. Zipp wheels are considered very good. I picked up a decent set of aero wheels off ebay second hand for a very low price, but I’m one of those cheapo types that hardly ever buys anything new because of the depreciation factor. I even bought my aerobars secondhand! As I mentioned previously, bikes suffer from the law of diminishing returns. That last tiny little bit costs a lot of extra money.  It really boils down to how much money you want to spend.

Response:

I’m not a veteran, but I’ve done a lot of reading and I can pass along what I’ve learned. =) 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

Clipless pedals and cycling shoes allow you to transfer more energy to the cranks (well, actually it stops you from wasting energy… but anyways.) Cycling shoes have a stiff sole and transfers all the weight in your foot to the pedal (this is where the clipless pedal comes in), thus eliminating the wasted energy from when your heel sinks downward. Even if you use toe straps, your sole still flexes when you pedal down (especially when you stand) and you tend to lose some energy that would otherwise go to moving you forward. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

You bought aerobars to become more aerodynamic and to waste less energy against drag, right? Well, unless you live/race in a rather hilly area, you stay in the aero position more often by putting your shifters on the aerobars. The bull horns are less aerodynamic, so for the moments that you move out of the aerobars to shift, you use more energy to overcome the extra drag. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

I possess no knowledge of this. =) 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike

A tri bike has a steeper seat tube angle, thus positioning you over the cranks. This forces you to use your quads to pedal more than you use your hams. Also, the steeper angle allows you to get a more aerodynamic position on the aerobars. However, some people prefer a road bike over a tri bike. Hope I helped. –Vincent

Response:

So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

Question:

What difference of opinion are you talking about? I am, always have been, and always will be OPPOSED TO DRAFTING in triathlons.  That’s a documented fact. And I CAN and will keep it out of age group racing here in America. Ray

|

don’t | seem to like each other | | Lol!  Nah, he coudn’t be that bad, he is a Triathlete after all.  I’m sure he’s | a nice guy, just a difference of opinion on the drafting subject is all. | | | Tim | buaidh no bas

Response:

What difference of opinion are you talking about?

The format of olympic "triathlon"  and whether or not olympic "triathlon" has done anything at all for the sport.  (which I oversimplified to "drafting") I am, always have been, and always will be OPPOSED TO DRAFTING in triathlons.  That’s a documented fact.

I see.  You sure do bend easy. And I CAN and will keep it out of age group racing.

We’ll see.  Why not get it out of pro racing while your at it?  With all that power, should be easy. Ray

Why reply to this post and ignore the other?  Afraid?  Have a nice day Ray. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

This is where the USAT is falling down, IMO, allowing one-day membership.  Require an annual membership and make sure races police it.

That’s a quick way to kill growth of the sport, or kill sanctioning of races. I can see it now: "Gee, I thought I might give this triathlon thing a whirl, but they won’t even let me sign up unless I join some stupid club.  I didn’t know it was a ‘union shop.’  Screw that! I’ll stick to running."

Response:

What difference of opinion are you talking about?

Simple. The difference is over whether draft-legal pro races and Olympics should be tolerated, and what their ultimate effect will be on age group racing. I am, always have been, and always will be OPPOSED TO DRAFTING in triathlons.  That’s a documented fact.

Well, it’s an assertion of yours; if you want to call it a "documented fact," you can pay for the polygraph exam. And I CAN and will keep it out of age group racing here in America.

And I’m just dying to know exactly how you’ll do that, as one lone individual.

Response:

And I CAN and will keep it out of age group racing. We’ll see.  Why not get it out of pro racing while your at it?  With all that power, should be easy.

Yes, and it would be a nice way to prove that you can.

Response:

seem to like each other

Lol!  Nah, he coudn’t be that bad, he is a Triathlete after all.  I’m sure he’s a nice guy, just a difference of opinion on the drafting subject is all. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

What difference of opinion are you talking about? I am, always have been, and always will be OPPOSED TO DRAFTING in triathlons.  That’s a documented fact. And I CAN and will keep it out of age group racing. Ray

|

don’t | seem to like each other | | Lol!  Nah, he coudn’t be that bad, he is a Triathlete after all.  I’m sure he’s | a nice guy, just a difference of opinion on the drafting subject is all. | | | Tim | buaidh no bas

Response:

There you have it.  The absolute truth from a man who has his finger on the pulse of world opinion and preference. Thanks Ray

I’m overwelmed Ray.  BTW did you have an opinion or answer to Johnpgovol’s question?  Perhaps you have a better idea as to "the pulse of world opinion and preference" as it relates to olympic "triathlon"?  I doubt it, I imagine your opinion is that of the tiny little IOC, ITU, wheel sucking world you live in, but perhaps not.  What do you say? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great | sport | a year after the Olympics. | | Has our sport grown?  For the better? | | I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for the | growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. | | Has this happened, or is it too early to tell? | | Do you know or have you met anyone who has joined our sport due to the | olympics?  Me neither.  The sport has grown over the last year it would be | silly to assume this had anything at all to do with the olympics. Probobly a | few people out there cheating (drafting) because they saw the packs of klutzy | riders however.

Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

…….For all you know, the increase in USAT membership is backlash of people getting involved to vote out the leadership that they feel overemphasized the Olympic inclusion in their priorities.

There was this guy who didn’t do much swimming, but he liked to run and occasionally went biking with his friends.  One day he heard there was someone, whatzisface, who wanted some particular sport – triathalon, it was – included in the Olympics.  Woah, said this guy, I’m going to join that club so that #%&* leader doesn’t overemphasize the Olympic inclusion in their priorities.  Thus was the membership of USAT swelled to overflowing, more or less according to Brian. We shall see. You may be defending the beginning of the trend that will end up costing you either your credibility or your life.  If I were you I’d be more stridently seeking to avoid facing that choice, after having made such a proclamation.

Well, I must admit, Brian, I’d increase the stridency of my seeking, too.   Do you know how to boil a live frog, Ray? Now you’re striking low.  In my pond I have a two inch Bull frog and I have been watching him absorb his tail when my nasty knee prevented me from doing my own hopping and leaping.  Your question struck holy terror in my heart.  You don’t believe me, do you?  Check him out at the bottom of the following page: http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/%20Pond.html Ruth Kazez

Response:

FWIW, Tinman Hawaii (yesterday) seemed to have about the same crowd as always, but I haven’t heard what the official numbers were. I will say that for the first time in a couple of years there is a new sprint tri here on Oahu – the Kalealoha Tri.  At least it’s the first new one that I’ve been made aware of and I’m usually keeping an eye open for new events. Aside from that, I haven’t seen any particular signs of growth. — Aloha, -Ben- http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There you have it.  The absolute truth from a man who has his finger on the pulse of world opinion and preference. Thanks Ray | | I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great | sport | a year after the Olympics. | | Has our sport grown?  For the better? | | I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for the | growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. | | Has this happened, or is it too early to tell? | | Do you know or have you met anyone who has joined our sport due to the | olympics?  Me neither.  The sport has grown over the last year it would be | silly to assume this had anything at all to do with the olympics. Probobly a | few people out there cheating (drafting) because they saw the packs of klutzy | riders however. | | | Tim | buaidh no bas

Response:

Participation in the Danskin events and early sign-up for the AARP series are both progressing rapidly.  I attribute this, in part,  to the excitement created by the Olympic triathlon’s success, especially as the opening event. I do not attribute the sports growth in any part to the olympics.  The sport has been growing for the last several years.  Do you have any facts to support your argument?

I have to agree with Tim on this.  I work with a women’s only tri club, probably half are beginners and 85% are new in the past 2 years.  I’d say that NONE of them got started training due to the Olympics. Instead, it is more of the "Hey, my friend X did this.  I’ll bet I can too."  And, groups like Team in Training, with the natural progression from running to tris and local small training groups (such as the YMCA). In the Tri for Fun series in Northern California that Jason mentioned, they have 1,000 people at the three races, all selling out in advance. And, 51% of the field were women and a very large majority of the 1,000 were first-timers (or at least they raised their hands to designate they were when Mark asked.) When that series started in the mid-late 1980s, there were around 60 people toeing the line. As for the increase in USAT annual members, what are the hard numbers on this?  I was the on-site registration coordinator at Alcatraz this year and I’ll bet the majority of athletes paid the one-day fee online when they signed up for the race.   I know that the one-day line at the 1/2 Vineman was about 10x longer than the annual membership line. This is where the USAT is falling down, IMO, allowing one-day membership.  Require an annual membership and make sure races police it.  I won’t even get started on tranferring race slots (which needs to be done.  Just a hint–look at how the NYC Marathon does this.) clm in sf, who has eaten three race entries so far this year and will probably eat Mrs. T’s entry too

Response:

Most road races (5k/10k/etc) can be joined at pretty much last notice or even the day of the event, but I’m finding most of the tris in the area are full weeks or even months prior to the event.  A bit of a drag for those of us who don’t want to plan every event that far ahead.  Has it always been this way, or is it a case of more people than events right now?

Depends upon your area, I guess.  Here you can late register for most of our tris too…they usually have to limit entries because they have limited transition areas, etc, but it seems pretty unusual here for them to close registration because they hit the limit (even though they do all seem to be well-attended). I just saw the official number for Honolulu Tinman: 1,040 participants.  I’m not sure how that compares to years past, but I think it’s pretty high. — Aloha, -Ben- http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr

Response:

On the other hand, if there is a finite limit to how many events can be held in a given area, it will only get worse.

How many road closures will the public tolerate? The big events are easier to commit to early, but some like Trical’s Alcatraz are filling 6 months prior.  For me, it’s been the casual $40 sprint events that I think about jumping in on 1-2 weeks before and I’m finding are already at the limit.  The Tri for Fun series closes online registration about 4 weeks before and this year has eliminated day of registration for every one.

Same thing’s happening here, but due to the addition of chip timing and because RD’s are tired of having to guess how many people will register at the last minute.  There is a series of $40 sprints in Ohio that keeps track of points for a series championship, but to be elegible, one must be pre-registered for at least 5 races before Memorial Day – that makes for a lot of early entries.

Response:

Don’t be overwhelmed.   The truth of the matter is that membership in USAT is way up over last year.  In addition, sanctioning of new races is also leading last year.

Yes Ray I know, I actually mentioned in this very thread I believed Triathlon to have grown over the last year.  Reading comprehension Ray. Participation in the Danskin events and early sign-up for the AARP series are both progressing rapidly.  I attribute this, in part,  to the excitement created by the Olympic triathlon’s success, especially as the opening event.

I do not attribute the sports growth in any part to the olympics.  The sport has been growing for the last several years.  Do you have any facts to support your argument? Now to address the stuff you’ve been making up and posting here.

What exactly did I "make up" Ray?  What are you talking about?  Are you confused? Just because you’ve not spoken to anyone who has started triathlon as a result of the Olympic hoopla, doesn’t mean that it isn’t happening.  Just how many newbies have you found it in your heart to condescend to talk to? Not many?  I thought so.

I have spoken with many newbies as I’m one myself (having just recentely raced for the first time in 2 years after a injury).  Many different reasons have been given to me as to what got them into the sport.  A new friend I train with who has yet to race is joining our sport because running is beating her up and she wants to try something new.  She didn’t know "triathlon" was in the olympics until I mentioned it.  Of all the people I have spoken to no one mentioned the olympics as a reason. I do not live in the IOC, ITU draft legal world at all. I am an age grouper just like others my age in this country.  I have stated publicly that age group draft legal racing will only happen in this country over my dead body. That’s still a promise I will keep.  You don’t remember that?  I thought so.

I recall vagually you making this statement.  I believe you mean it.  Is it under your control I highly doubt.  As long as people keep kicking up a fuss about draft-legal tri we should be safe.  Not gonna let my guard down thats for sure.  Still this does not excuse drafting at the pro ranks as it stands.  I feel sorry for the kids who enter our sport, fall in love with it, then find their dreams of olympic glory mean racing a bastardized version of triathlon. I’m being serious here. So, how’s your sunblock working?  When you crawl out into the bright light of day and are confronted with the truth, it might just toast you.  Don’t make this stuff up and post it here.  You’re not doing anyone any good.

What are referring to?   What is the truth Ray?  That draft-legal tri is a wonderful and beautiful thing that all Triathletes are glad is in the olympics?  That the olympic race has been a huge boon for Triathlon?  This is you opinion Ray, by no means is it fact.  Again what am I making up? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ray | | There you have it.  The absolute truth from a man who has his finger on the | pulse of world opinion and preference. | | Thanks | | Ray | | I’m overwelmed Ray.  BTW did you have an opinion or answer to Johnpgovol’s | question?  Perhaps you have a better idea as to "the pulse of world opinion and | preference" as it relates to olympic "triathlon"?  I doubt it, I imagine your | opinion is that of the tiny little IOC, ITU, wheel sucking world you live in, | but perhaps not.  What do you say? | | | | | I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great | | sport | | a year after the Olympics. | | | | Has our sport grown?  For the better? | | | | I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for | the | | growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. | | | | Has this happened, or is it too early to tell? | | | | Do you know or have you met anyone who has joined our sport due to the | | olympics?  Me neither.  The sport has grown over the last year it would be | | silly to assume this had anything at all to do with the olympics. | Probobly a | | few people out there cheating (drafting) because they saw the packs of | klutzy | | riders however. | | Tim | buaidh no bas

Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

Most road races (5k/10k/etc) can be joined at pretty much last notice or even the day of the event, but I’m finding most of the tris in the area are full weeks or even months prior to the event.  A bit of a drag for those of us who don’t want to plan every event that far ahead.   If it’s due to growth, then it’s another reason growth isn’t universally good.

If it’s due to a sudden growth spurt, one response is for more events to pop up, as there are more customers to support them.  Some weekends have two events, but it’s still rare.  It’s quite common for there to be multiple running events.   On the other hand, if there is a finite limit to how many events can be held in a given area, it will only get worse. Around here it’s that RD’s are adding features like Championchip timing that require more advance preparation, so they’re limiting entries or imposing early deadlines to make it manageable.

The big events are easier to commit to early, but some like Trical’s Alcatraz are filling 6 months prior.  For me, it’s been the casual $40 sprint events that I think about jumping in on 1-2 weeks before and I’m finding are already at the limit.  The Tri for Fun series closes online registration about 4 weeks before and this year has eliminated day of registration for every one.  Others like the Tiburon Tri were auctioning their last spots over 2 months before.   — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

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Don’t be overwhelmed.   The truth of the matter is that membership in USAT is way up over last year.  In addition, sanctioning of new races is also leading last year.  Participation in the Danskin events and early sign-up for the AARP series are both progressing rapidly.  I attribute this, in part,  to the excitement created by the Olympic triathlon’s success, especially as the opening event.

Most road races (5k/10k/etc) can be joined at pretty much last notice or even the day of the event, but I’m finding most of the tris in the area are full weeks or even months prior to the event.  A bit of a drag for those of us who don’t want to plan every event that far ahead.  Has it always been this way, or is it a case of more people than events right now? — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

Response:

Most road races (5k/10k/etc) can be joined at pretty much last notice or even the day of the event, but I’m finding most of the tris in the area are full weeks or even months prior to the event.  A bit of a drag for those of us who don’t want to plan every event that far ahead.  

If it’s due to growth, then it’s another reason growth isn’t universally good. Around here it’s that RD’s are adding features like Championchip timing that require more advance preparation, so they’re limiting entries or imposing early deadlines to make it manageable.

Response:

There was this guy who didn’t do much swimming, but he liked to run and occasionally went biking with his friends.  One day he heard there was someone, whatzisface, who wanted some particular sport – triathalon, it was – included in the Olympics.  Woah, said this guy, I’m going to join that club so that #%&* leader doesn’t overemphasize the Olympic inclusion in their priorities.  Thus was the membership of USAT swelled to overflowing, more or less according to Brian.

No, I’m speaking of the numerous triathletes who have not joined, and who complain loudly (especially here) about USAT fawning on the Olympics, and who people like Ray admonish that the best thing they can do is join and vote.  For all Ray knows, his admonishments could be working.  By the way, it was a strong motivator for me.  However, to further point out the folly of Ray’s reasoning, nothing about the Olympics can be inferred from a jump in USAT membership in the year that they increased the one day license fee by 40% while keeping the annual membership fee constant, which is the primary reason I joined – cost savings. Got that, Ray? It’s not the Olympics; to paraphrase the famous campaign button of 1996 – "it’s the economics, stupid." Well, I must admit, Brian, I’d increase the stridency of my seeking, too.

I was somewhat surprised to see Ray make such a bold claim; he’s usually much more restrained. It’s downright Brian-ish of him. Now you’re striking low.  In my pond I have a two inch Bull frog and I have been watching him absorb his tail when my nasty knee prevented me from doing my own hopping and leaping.  Your question struck holy terror in my heart.

Relax, Ruth, it’s a simple allusion to a common political proverb about complacency in the face of creeping despotism. If you toss a frog in a pot of boiling water, it’ll jump right back out. To boil a frog, you put it in a pot of cool water on the stove, and gradually raise the temperature. The frog will simply enjoy the gradually warming water, and by the time he realizes what’s happening, it’s too late.  The parallels for Ray are pretty clear. Your bullfrog is safe, although, if someday you find him to be a double amputee, just follow the smell of garlic and lemon to my kitchen.

Response:

Don’t be overwhelmed.   The truth of the matter is that membership in USAT is way up over last year.  In addition, sanctioning of new races is also leading last year.  Participation in the Danskin events and early sign-up for the AARP series are both progressing rapidly.  

Meaningless without comparison to growth figures from 1999 to 2000.   I attribute this, in part,  to the excitement created by the Olympic triathlon’s success, especially as the opening event.

And what evidence do you offer to attach causality to your correlation, assuming you have the information lacking above to establish its significance in the first place?  For all you know, the increase in USAT membership is backlash of people getting involved to vote out the leadership that they feel overemphasized the Olympic inclusion in their priorities. I do not live in the IOC, ITU draft legal world at all. I am an age grouper just like others my age in this country.  I have stated publicly that age group draft legal racing will only happen in this country over my dead body. That’s still a promise I will keep.  You don’t remember that?  I thought so.

We shall see. You may be defending the beginning of the trend that will end up costing you either your credibility or your life.  If I were you I’d be more stridently seeking to avoid facing that choice, after having made such a proclamation.  Do you know how to boil a live frog, Ray?  How’s the temperature in the pot since the Olympics?  Oh, just a tiny bit warmer, eh? Nothing to be worried about?

Response:

Don’t be overwhelmed.   The truth of the matter is that membership in USAT is way up over last year.  In addition, sanctioning of new races is also leading last year.  Participation in the Danskin events and early sign-up for the AARP series are both progressing rapidly.  I attribute this, in part,  to the excitement created by the Olympic triathlon’s success, especially as the opening event. Now to address the stuff you’ve been making up and posting here. Just because you’ve not spoken to anyone who has started triathlon as a result of the Olympic hoopla, doesn’t mean that it isn’t happening.  Just how many newbies have you found it in your heart to condescend to talk to? Not many?  I thought so. I do not live in the IOC, ITU draft legal world at all. I am an age grouper just like others my age in this country.  I have stated publicly that age group draft legal racing will only happen in this country over my dead body. That’s still a promise I will keep.  You don’t remember that?  I thought so. So, how’s your sunblock working?  When you crawl out into the bright light of day and are confronted with the truth, it might just toast you.  Don’t make this stuff up and post it here.  You’re not doing anyone any good. Ray

| | There you have it.  The absolute truth from a man who has his finger on the | pulse of world opinion and preference. | | Thanks | | Ray | | I’m overwelmed Ray.  BTW did you have an opinion or answer to Johnpgovol’s | question?  Perhaps you have a better idea as to "the pulse of world opinion and | preference" as it relates to olympic "triathlon"?  I doubt it, I imagine your | opinion is that of the tiny little IOC, ITU, wheel sucking world you live in, | but perhaps not.  What do you say? |

| | | | I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great | | sport | | a year after the Olympics. | | | | Has our sport grown?  For the better? | | | | I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for | the | | growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. | | | | Has this happened, or is it too early to tell? | | | | Do you know or have you met anyone who has joined our sport due to the | | olympics?  Me neither.  The sport has grown over the last year it would be | | silly to assume this had anything at all to do with the olympics. | Probobly a | | few people out there cheating (drafting) because they saw the packs of | klutzy | | riders however. | | Tim | buaidh no bas

Response:

There you have it.  The absolute truth from a man who has his finger on the pulse of world opinion and preference. Thanks Ray

| | I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great | sport | a year after the Olympics. | | Has our sport grown?  For the better? | | I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for the | growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. | | Has this happened, or is it too early to tell? | | Do you know or have you met anyone who has joined our sport due to the | olympics?  Me neither.  The sport has grown over the last year it would be | silly to assume this had anything at all to do with the olympics. Probobly a | few people out there cheating (drafting) because they saw the packs of klutzy | riders however. | | | Tim | buaidh no bas

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I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great sport a year after the Olympics. Has our sport grown?  For the better?   I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for the growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. Has this happened, or is it too early to tell?

Response:

I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great sport a year after the Olympics. Has our sport grown?  For the better?   I kept hearing that having triathlon in the Olympics would be great for the growth of the sport-for newcomers-and for sponsorship money. Has this happened, or is it too early to tell?

Do you know or have you met anyone who has joined our sport due to the olympics?  Me neither.  The sport has grown over the last year it would be silly to assume this had anything at all to do with the olympics.  Probobly a few people out there cheating (drafting) because they saw the packs of klutzy riders however. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great sport a year after the Olympics.

I’m from Simon Whitfield’s home town and can say that the sport around here has become very popular from fifty year old codgers like me running my first tri next month right through to teenagers with Olympic dreams. It’s nice to see the kids taking such an interest.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m just curious as to what everyone thinks about the state of our great sport a year after the Olympics. I’m from Simon Whitfield’s home town and can say that the sport around here has become very popular from fifty year old codgers like me running my first tri next month right through to teenagers with Olympic dreams. It’s nice to see the kids taking such an interest.

Who is Simon Whitfield? Phil

Response:

Question:

As a beginning triathlete intending to some open water swims this spring, what sort of wetsuit should I be looking for? Should I put down the money for a triathlon suit or go for a cheaper all-purpose spring suit (about half the price). David

Response:

If you’re serious, buy a triathlon wetsuit.  They last for years if you take care of them and your body doesn’t change radically.  The surfing/diving/skiing suits might prevent hypothermia but otherwise are just an encumbrance. A full suit gives the best advantage and is the warmest.  Sleeveless suits are popular but might not be the best in terms of speed.  Although arm movement is less restricted, there is some drag from water entering the suit at the armpits.  I believe it was QR that had an article about elite swimmers who swore they were faster in the sleeveless suit than the full suit but the clock said otherwise. A good fit is important.  If you can, buy where you can try them on. Good luck. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a beginning triathlete intending to some open water swims this spring, what sort of wetsuit should I be looking for? Should I put down the money for a triathlon suit or go for a cheaper all-purpose spring suit (about half the price). David

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David, I bought a new sleeveless Orca Predator about a month ago, swam in it 3 times and I can honestly say that the water that enters the armpit area is VERY minimal.  As Larry said, be sure that you are able to try the suit on before you buy it, that is big time important, a chart might say you are one size and you try that particular size on and it’s not the fit for you.  I would definately reccomend a tri specific suit though, whatever brand you choose to go with. Good Luck Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re serious, buy a triathlon wetsuit.  They last for years if you take care of them and your body doesn’t change radically.  The surfing/diving/skiing suits might prevent hypothermia but otherwise are just an encumbrance. A full suit gives the best advantage and is the warmest.  Sleeveless suits are popular but might not be the best in terms of speed.  Although arm movement is less restricted, there is some drag from water entering the suit at the armpits.  I believe it was QR that had an article about elite swimmers who swore they were faster in the sleeveless suit than the full suit but the clock said otherwise. A good fit is important.  If you can, buy where you can try them on. Good luck. Larry As a beginning triathlete intending to some open water swims this spring, what sort of wetsuit should I be looking for? Should I put down the money for a triathlon suit or go for a cheaper all-purpose spring suit (about half the price). David

Response:

I’ll chime in as the third vote for a tri-specific suit.  I went with the Ironman sleeveless and am very happy with it.– http://dschreiner.freeservers.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a beginning triathlete intending to some open water swims this spring, what sort of wetsuit should I be looking for? Should I put down the money for a triathlon suit or go for a cheaper all-purpose spring suit (about half the price). David

Response:

Go for the tri specific suit.   Like Larry said, full suits are fastest. One exception might be in water where the temp is marginal like Gulf Coast. I was wasted when I came out of the water.  Took 25 miles on the bike to cool down.   My first suit was a sleeveless.   With that I took 2 minutes off my 1.5 K time.  I am somewhat faster(.5 Min) with the full suit in cold water.    Do consider the water temp of your planned races before purchasing.  The sleeveless suit with 3/4 length legs sure comes off fast. It might be an equalizing factor to consider.   I do think it takes me 15 to 20 seconds longer to get out of the full suit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a beginning triathlete intending to some open water swims this spring, what sort of wetsuit should I be looking for? Should I put down the money for a triathlon suit or go for a cheaper all-purpose spring suit (about half the price). David

Response:

As a beginning triathlete intending to some open water swims this spring, what sort of wetsuit should I be looking for?

Triathlon-specific, I guess that makes this part of the reply unanimous Now, if you’ve got time, you may want to wait for the new T1 suits by DeSoto. The two piece suits look very interesting. That said, I own a sleeveless Ironman. It’s a great suit with excellent customer service. I used it at IMCalifornia last year and was fine, even in the cold water. David / FEY2K IMCAL2000 16:53 (remove spaces) at att dot net

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David, I would definately spend the money to get a triathlon specific wetsuit.  If you take care of it it will last you quite a long time.  I recommend the Orca and the Ironman wetsuit.  They are a bit more expensive but they are well worth the investment.  Going sleeveless or not depends on where you live and how varied your training and racing climate is.  If you have any other questions I would be glad to answer them.  I have been racing for a number of years.  I just recently started training with the National Training Center and I also am running an online triathlon gear site.  Take Care and don’t hesitate to contact Sincerely, Jordan Hurdal www.TriathlonEssentials.com

Response:

Don’t know where you live, but in So Cal there is a wetsuit manufacturer that will make you a custom tri suit for around $200. Look up Coral Reef in Westiminster, CA. I have a QR suit that requires me to lather my body in shampoo to get into it. Also, the skin is very fragile. My custom suit fits like a glove (I think he takes about 40 measurements)and required 3 separate fittings. It is a titanium suit, which is supposed to be warmer. The only real difference, *I think*, is the QR uses a higher mil-rating on the legs which gives greater buoyency(sp) to the lower half of your body. I wasted a lot of money by first buying a spring suit and then a surfing wetsuit before I discovered there are wetsuits specifically for triathlons. Hope I can save someone else from repeating my experience. SDW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David, I would definately spend the money to get a triathlon specific wetsuit.  If you take care of it it will last you quite a long time.  I recommend the Orca and the Ironman wetsuit.  They are a bit more expensive but they are well worth the investment.  Going sleeveless or not depends on where you live and how varied your training and racing climate is.  If you have any other questions I would be glad to answer them.  I have been racing for a number of years.  I just recently started training with the National Training Center and I also am running an online triathlon gear site.  Take Care and don’t hesitate to contact Sincerely, Jordan Hurdal www.TriathlonEssentials.com

Response:

Question:

Hi, Have tall friend wanting to get into sport with low budget. do you have a modestly priced racing bike for sale that would fit a very tall drink of water? Please respond to me.

Response:

We have a good selection of equipment for both Clydesdale and Tall athletes.  I am big and through personal experience have pretty good knowledge of good big bikes (all price ranges) and racing and training equipment for big guys and athletic women, including wetsuits. — Bud Bonzai web site      www.erols.com/bonzaisports 703-280-2248 : Have tall friend wanting to get into sport with low budget. do you have a : modestly priced racing bike for sale that would fit a very tall drink of water? : Please respond to me. : :

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Question:

I’m thinking of buying the ds-trainer now that the gt 2020 is discontinued and I don’t care for it’s replacement. I’m 140 lbs.,  a mid-foot striker, and I need a daily training shoe to train for a marathon in the spring. I run about 35-40 miles weekly. Any opinions on this shoe? Thanks in advance.

Response:

DS Trainers are what I use.  I alternate with Shimanos, run 60 to 80 miles a week, mid foot strike, and weigh 165.  Never had a problem (with the shoes). They wear well, are relative light, very flexible, and comfortable.  Only complaint is that I can’t seem to get them to go fast enough to break any world records, but that may not be the shoes fault!

I’m thinking of buying the ds-trainer now that the gt 2020 is discontinued and I don’t care for it’s replacement. I’m 140 lbs.,  a mid-foot striker, and I need a daily training shoe to train for a marathon in the spring. I run about 35-40 miles weekly. Any opinions on this shoe? Thanks in advance.

Response:

Last years model was great. Find it if you can. "The running machine is broken…and that’s the bottom line!" —     O —  <^_ — / —–

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I’m thinking of buying the ds-trainer now that the gt 2020 is discontinued and I don’t care for it’s replacement. I’m 140 lbs.,  a mid-foot striker, and I need a daily training shoe to train for a marathon in the spring. I run about 35-40 miles weekly. Any opinions on this shoe? Thanks in advance.

I like the DS Trainers (current and last 2 models) better than the 2020’s.  I actually find the current orange/white/green model to be better cushioned than the 2020’s and wider in the toe box.  In addition, the Trainers outersole seems to hold up better than that of the 2020’s. Ron

Response:

I’m thinking of buying the ds-trainer now that the gt 2020 is discontinued and I don’t care for it’s replacement. I’m 140 lbs.,  a mid-foot striker, and I need a daily training shoe to train for a marathon in the spring. I run about 35-40 miles weekly. Any opinions on this shoe? Thanks in advance.

I got a pair of DS trainers about 100 miles back, so I can’t tell you how long they will last.  They are now my favorite shoe, after replacing the original insole right away.  I transitioned from 2020’s and found them to be very good for me, except for the original insole, which I’ve found to be very cheap in all Asics since my 2001’s.  I have a  narrow heel, wide fore-foot, slight pronation, and weigh 185, and the DST’s have almost perfect cushioning and stability for me, so far.  I’ve been told that the DST’s may break down faster than the 2020-2030 types, especialy with my weight.  I guess time will tell. Rusty Southwood CMRA#342

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I just the bought the DST’s yesterday and went for a run right after.  I only went about 3 miles for I am trying to get back into tri-shape after 4 months off.  The guy at the store said if comparing these to the Nike Air Max Triax, (I know, a lot of people don’t like them.  Please don’t hurt me.) the DST’s wear out about 50-100 miles faster.  Not a big deal in my book, but worth noting for the comparison people.         So far, the one test run gave good cushioning, decent stability and a LIGHT shoe (~10.5 oz).  I think it will do the trick for me. Howie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of buying the ds-trainer now that the gt 2020 is discontinued and I don’t care for it’s replacement. I’m 140 lbs.,  a mid-foot striker, and I need a daily training shoe to train for a marathon in the spring. I run about 35-40 miles weekly. Any opinions on this shoe? Thanks in advance. I got a pair of DS trainers about 100 miles back, so I can’t tell you how long they will last.  They are now my favorite shoe, after replacing the original insole right away.  I transitioned from 2020’s and found them to be very good for me, except for the original insole, which I’ve found to be very cheap in all Asics since my 2001’s.  I have a  narrow heel, wide fore-foot, slight pronation, and weigh 185, and the DST’s have almost perfect cushioning and stability for me, so far.  I’ve been told that the DST’s may break down faster than the 2020-2030 types, especialy with my weight.  I guess time will tell. Rusty Southwood CMRA#342

Howie "Triathlon is not life.  It is a game to use to test your personal limits, not your personal worth.  Enjoy yourself when you train and race." -Sue Latshaw, Perennial top-10 Ironman finisher

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Can anybody tell me approximate cost of the DS Trainer and where in Nova

Scotia I might buy some? THanks, John

Response:

Had to try out the running figure:-)) ___  O __  <^_ __  V _____

Response:

I’m thinking of buying the ds-trainer now that the gt 2020 is discontinued and I don’t care for it’s replacement. I’m 140 lbs.,  a mid-foot striker, and I need a daily training shoe to train for a marathon in the spring. I run about 35-40 miles weekly. Any opinions on this shoe? Thanks in advance. I like the shoe.  There’s an unusual way to tie the laces.  I had one pair on which the top eyelet of one shoe came off, and the store from which I bought it replaced the pair and showed me the trick.  You run the lace straight up through the top two eyelets, the red ones, and use the resulting lace connection between those two eyelets as the final eyelet for the opposite lace.  You can play with that to get a good tight fit (which I prefer) and it reduces the strain on the top eyelets themselves.  It’s difficult to describe, and you may already know it, but once you figure it out, it’s easy. Regards, Joe Garland

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lace connection between those two eyelets as the final eyelet for the opposite lace.  You can play with that to get a good tight fit (which I prefer) and it reduces the strain on the top eyelets themselves.  It’s difficult to describe, and you may already know it, but once you figure it out, it’s easy. Regards, Joe Garland

Joe that is an alternate lacing method we show to a lot of our customers. It works best with that extra eyelet put up in the collar of a lot of the shoes. It then works to cinch the shoe and stop heel slipage. Have a great day, Jerry Tel-a-Runner, Inc. 1-800-835-2786 http://www.telarun.com

Response:

I did buy these shooes about 2 years ago. They costed about 800FF ($120) in France. They are very good shooes, but they dured very few time (about 800 kms, when my other running-shooes dure 1500-2000 kms) Sorry if my english level is bad… Nicolas GRINNAERT, from France Marathon de Paris 24/04/94           : 5h22′53" Marathon des Hauts de Seine 12/11/95 : 4h46′52" Marathon de Paris 05/04/98           : en pr

Question:

This is not some RIGHT that you have to EARN or QUALIFY for in some way.  It matters not whether you are a pro, an age grouper, MOP, BOP, etc.   It is simply a matter of personal choice not subject to moral judgement from others.

True. Again I must state that all this arguing for and against any athlete’s  act  is speculation since you have no way of knowing what is going through  his/her mind. She had a reason, and she did it. Might be "wrong" or "right" in  your book, but the truth is we’ll never know. "Iron Pete" Priolo IMC’96 – 10:36:37    IMC’97 – 10:42:53 ‘98 Gulf Coast Tri, IMC’98

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I’m with you, Jim.  The original post in this thread was obviously directed at PNF, and, quite frankly, what on earth would Paula have to prove by finishing when she was feeling lousy?  The woman has finished (and won!) more Ironman triathlons than most of us could even conceive of racing; why on earth should she put herself through the hell of the second half of an IM marathon in extremely difficult conditions when she’s feeling like crap at this juncture in her career?  I don’t think anyone is in a position to pass such a judgment on the woman.

<<<other good points snipped Another thing to consider is the rumor that Paula told Murphy Reinschreiber(sp?) that she was "cooked" before she even got to Hawi on the bike.  If this rumor is true then I give Paula credit for having the tenacity to hold on as long as she did. On one hand we’ve got those criticizing officials for not intervening.  On another we’ve got those who criticize an athlete for DNF’ing when she’s had enough.  Nobody seems to be happy. Stacy Hills Reston, VA

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I have really enjoyed following this thread because of the thought provoking  ideas and passion it has obviously drawn out of so many triathletes.  I think  these type of issues are important for all of us to consider from time to  time…."what am I here for/why am I doing this?"  I find much to agree with  on both sides of the issue, but I think many are not taking the question in  its proper context. 1.  Triathlon is an individual sport…not a team event. 2.  Fans/Spectators have not paid for tickets to the event. 3.  Competing in a triathlon is a CHOICE, not a requirement. These three parameters lead me to the following conclusion: It is neither morally right, nor wrong to DNF in a Triathlon for ANY reason you  see fit. What right do we as spectators or fellow competitors have to pass moral  judgment on anothers choice when it is NOT a moral issue? There are choices we  make in life every day that are neither RIGHT nor WRONG…but simply choices. This is not some RIGHT that you have to EARN or QUALIFY for in some way.  It  matters not whether you are a pro, an age grouper, MOP, BOP, etc.   It is  simply a matter of personal choice not subject to moral judgement from others. Now a person in a SPONSORSHIP role might have a bit to say about this, and I  cant deny them their right to hold an athelete to any contractual performance  clauses…but it would be a foolish sponsor indeed who would  insist that an  athelete continue on when it is against the atheletes wishes. Flame me if you must…but READ CAREFULLY and think about it first.  I am NOT  saying that DNFing was the best thing PNF could do, or that it was the  smartest thing that she could do.  Simply that we have NO grounds to make a  MORAL judgement upon her decision….period. I’ve shouted enough…back to my little cave… . greg nelson           ||  07:59:58  ||  <—– VISUALIZATION TRAINING PROGRAM               __O__/ ::::::::: IRONMAN HAWAI:::::::::::              __//\                    /

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On another note, did anyone else notice QRman’s post about Paula’s reaction to Fernanda Keller’s finish?  I was thinking, "Go, Paula!" because I share that sense of disgust with Fernanda’s lack of compassion and interest in her fellow racers.  Maybe I’m wrong, but something about it just seems kind of….heartless.  She could have at least stopped and cheered Sian on and offered some support before skipping off to the finish line. Tri-Baby

        I recall in one of the Ironman Japan races in the early-mid-1980’s where Scott Molina came across Dave Scott crashed on his bike by the side of the road.  Molina stopped to help Scott and made sure he was okay before continuing.  At the post-race press conference he was commended for his sportsmanship.  Molina replied "Hey!  If there had been prize money in this race I would have ran right over him!"         Obviously some jest involved…but for a "second-tier pro" like Fernanda Keller, who DOES do well at IMH and probably needs a good finish there to please her sponsors, to gain two places (and several thousand dollars) in the last few meters of a race is like manna from heaven!  I have no feeling about what she did because…that’s racing… I don’t want to dissect everything today I don’t mean to pick you apart you see But I can’t help it A. Morissette

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In my opinion, having a bad day is never an excuse to drop out. My ultimate respect goes to people who finish what they start – Karen Smyers (never dropped out of a race), Pauli Kuiri who blew up in the early nineties but finished, and this year Melissa Spooner. In first Ironman year she finished second at IMC and was in the top ten off the bike at IMH. Her marathon split was approx 5:30, but she finished. She emulates what the sport should be about. It is not about how fast, or where you place, but about doing it.

We disagree here. I accept Dalton’s postion for a MOPer or BOPer but not for pros or even for elite age groupers.  For the latter the race really is about how fast you go or where you place.  For pros especially, it makes no sense for them to beat up their bodies when they clearly see they will finish out of the money and/or not have a very fast time.  They need to consider saving themselves for future races.  Of course this doesn’t apply quite as much to IMH since it is late in the season for northern hemisphere athletes, but the principle still stands. For an elite racer, I see no special moral merit just to finishing.  They are almost certainly well enough trained that they could finish the race at some sufficiently slow speed but what does that prove?  I wouldn’t argue that a pro or elite shouldn’t finish in a slow time.  I just don’t see where it deserves my ultimate respect. For the less than elite, just finishing a race as difficult as any Ironman and IMH in particular is an exceptionally fine personal achievement and certainly does get my greatest respect.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my opinion, having a bad day is never an excuse to drop out. My ultimate respect goes to people who finish what they start – Karen Smyers (never dropped out of a race), Pauli Kuiri who blew up in the early nineties but finished, and this year Melissa Spooner. In first Ironman year she finished second at IMC and was in the top ten off the bike at IMH. Her marathon split was approx 5:30, but she finished. She emulates what the sport should be about. It is not about how fast, or where you place, but about doing it. We disagree here. I accept Dalton’s postion for a MOPer or BOPer but not for pros or even for elite age groupers.  For the latter the race really is about how fast you go or where you place.  For pros especially, it makes no sense for them to beat up their bodies when they clearly see they will finish out of the money and/or not have a very fast time.  They need to consider saving themselves for future races.  Of course this doesn’t apply quite as much to IMH since it is late in the season for northern hemisphere athletes, but the principle still stands. For an elite racer, I see no special moral merit just to finishing.  They are almost certainly well enough trained that they could finish the race at some sufficiently slow speed but what does that prove?  I wouldn’t argue that a pro or elite shouldn’t finish in a slow time.  I just don’t see where it deserves my ultimate respect.

I’m with you, Jim.  The original post in this thread was obviously directed at PNF, and, quite frankly, what on earth would Paula have to prove by finishing when she was feeling lousy?  The woman has finished (and won!) more Ironman triathlons than most of us could even conceive of racing; why on earth should she put herself through the hell of the second half of an IM marathon in extremely difficult conditions when she’s feeling like crap at this juncture in her career?  I don’t think anyone is in a position to pass such a judgment on the woman. Bear in mind, too, that Paula is on the brink of retirement; at this point she is racing purely for the love of racing.  That being the case, why should she continue in a race when she’s no longer enjoying it?  She’s doing it for fun; it was clearly no longer fun mid-way through the marathon, so she called it a day.  Sounds reasonable to me.  (I can hear the rebuttals now:  "I race for fun, too, but I would never pull out just because I was having a lousy day."  Ah, but if you feel that much determination to finish, it’s clear that you’re NOT just racing for "fun".  Think about it…) Just FYI, I understand that the illness Paula suffered just prior to IMH involved an abscessed tooth that had to be pulled.  The accompanying infection and downtime hit at a crucial week in her training cycle in prep for Hawaii. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I share that sense of disgust with Fernanda’s lack of compassion and interest in her fellow racers.

As one gets close to the finish line the clock, the tape, the ordeal all start  to push one toward getting  it over.  I also wonder how many of the top  finishers dropped to the ground just after the finish and were taken off to  the IV tent. Fernanda placed everything she had on the line to finish, and that may have  kept her from shedding a tear for a fallen foe.  I’ve never done a IM distance race, but I’ve done a half and if anything would  have stopped me just prior to the finish line I probably would have crashed  and burned.    Please don’t flame me tribaby but I think she finished her way and we all know  that 95% of the time we all pick it up a little and try to look good heading  into the finish, even if only for a few yards.  I’m going to give her the  benefit of the doubt. Dan Herrema

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "I share that sense of disgust with Fernanda’s lack of compassion and interest  in her fellow racers." Hmmm…. Not to put too fine a point on this aspect of things, but Keller is a  professional and, horrible and heretical as this may sound, prize money and  perhaps sponsor bonuses are at stake.  She governed her race in a way that got  her to the finish line without crashing.  It would be nice, in a comraderie  and compassionate sense, to stop and comiserate with your competitors, but I  think when your living depends on where you place, it plays a role in how you  finish. Did both Wendy and Sian put it all on the line?  You bet and they can  be applauded for that. Are they better triathletes than Keller? Possibly. But  Keller ran her race, in a way that (like 1995), got her to the finish before  them and I don’t see that as an inherently dishonorable thing.     I’ll agree with you Tricia in that the "spirit" of the sport makes us feel one  way.  The economics of the sport however, (which we as age-groupers are  usually unaware of) often lead to a whole other thing. Best, Mark  

All good points, Mark, and I concede.  Guess I let my emotions carry me away, and I really had no right to be so catty.  I admit to feeling a certain bias against Fernanda, resulting from numerous reports that she has a quaint habit of riding her bike close behind other athletes.  Still, that doesn’t mean I should condemn her for running her race and making a living.  She is a pro, and I’m always the first to say that a pro’s gotta do what a pro’s gotta do. Apologies. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Tri-Baby I race for the journey not the destination. The races I rememeber the most are not the ones where I won or PB’d but the ones where I suffered, challenged myself and perservered.

That makes two of us, Dalton, and I agree with you.  My point was simply that Paula is in rather a unique position wrt what any given race "means" to her.  I think that your point actually does apply to the majority of pros and elites.  However, the jibe was originally directed at PNF, and it seems to me that she’s earned the right to call it a day at any race "just" because she feels awful.  How many times has she soldiered on in the past and finished even when she felt like hell?  When you’re a pro on the brink of retirement doing your 30th Ironman, I would think that DNFing really wouldn’t seem like such a big deal.   And in the end, we all do this for ourselves, don’t we? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my opinion, having a bad day is never an excuse to drop out. My ultimate respect goes to people who finish what they start – Karen Smyers (never dropped out of a race), Pauli Kuiri who blew up in the early nineties but finished, and this year Melissa Spooner. In first Ironman year she finished second at IMC and was in the top ten off the bike at IMH. Her marathon split was approx 5:30, but she finished. She emulates what the sport should be about. It is not about how fast, or where you place, but about doing it. We disagree here. I accept Dalton’s postion for a MOPer or BOPer but not for pros or even for elite age groupers.  For the latter the race really is about how fast you go or where you place.  For pros especially, it makes no sense for them to beat up their bodies when they clearly see they will finish out of the money and/or not have a very fast time.  They need to consider saving themselves for future races.  Of course this doesn’t apply quite as much to IMH since it is late in the season for northern hemisphere athletes, but the principle still stands.

Still, there’s something to be said for fighting the good fight. I agree with Dalton – I was most impressed with Kiuru when he was was favored to win and everything was going wrong – he didn’t quit. You could say that it’s the smart thing to do – to save yourself for another race. And I’d agree if there were some danger of lasting damage. But, if it’s just because you realize that someone else is gonna whup your butt that day, and you’d really rather not go to the finish line and take your lumps – I disagree. Chris

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A point of view. At least Fernanda Keller hung on to the end of the race and moved up two spots in the award money. She was there to seize the opportunity. While there are numerous good reasons to drop out of a race (medical and technical), far too many pros, IMHO, dropped out due to a more difficult race then they expected. It is interesting that PNF dropped out only after Heather Fuhr passed her on the run. In my opinion, having a bad day is never an excuse to drop out. My ultimate respect goes to people who finish what they start – Karen Smyers (never dropped out of a race), Pauli Kuiri who blew up in the early nineties but finished, and this year Melissa Spooner. In first Ironman year she finished second at IMC and was in the top ten off the bike at IMH. Her marathon split was approx 5:30, but she finished. She emulates what the sport should be about. It is not about how fast, or where you place, but about doing it. Dalton

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"I share that sense of disgust with Fernanda’s lack of compassion and interest  in her fellow racers." Hmmm…. Not to put too fine a point on this aspect of things, but Keller is a  professional and, horrible and heretical as this may sound, prize money and  perhaps sponsor bonuses are at stake.  She governed her race in a way that got  her to the finish line without crashing.  It would be nice, in a comraderie  and compassionate sense, to stop and comiserate with your competitors, but I  think when your living depends on where you place, it plays a role in how you  finish. Did both Wendy and Sian put it all on the line?  You bet and they can  be applauded for that. Are they better triathletes than Keller? Possibly. But  Keller ran her race, in a way that (like 1995), got her to the finish before  them and I don’t see that as an inherently dishonorable thing.     I’ll agree with you Tricia in that the "spirit" of the sport makes us feel one  way.  The economics of the sport however, (which we as age-groupers are  usually unaware of) often lead to a whole other thing. Best, Mark   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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On another note, did anyone else notice QRman’s post about Paula’s reaction to Fernanda Keller’s finish?  I was thinking, "Go, Paula!" because I share that sense of disgust with Fernanda’s lack of compassion and interest in her fellow racers.  Maybe I’m wrong, but something about it just seems kind of….heartless.  She could have at least stopped and cheered Sian on and offered some support before skipping off to the finish line. Tri-Baby

Huh ? Fernanda is a professional athlete , Why would she stop , run the risk of cramping etc? I dont understand this , I am sure neither Sian or Wendy would stop either , whether you like it or not, it is a race out there amongst the pros. First to the finish line gets the bigger prize money! For the record I dont remember Kathleen McCartney stopping for Julie Moss , nor did Karen Smyers stop for Paula . I dont see anything unsportsmanlike in this at all. More power to Fernanda for running on strongly and that is not to take anything away from either Wendys or Sians races. Ross

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neither did LVL stop last year for Hellriegel (despite Thomas had claf problems obviously), neither did Allen stop for the same guy because it was getting hard… feeling bad is a part of our sport…PNF had been feeling bad at nearly all the IM she competed in for a few years now…should all the girls stop? Did PNF stop when she left Natasha Badman last year? IMH is not a long day of training for anyone…you see someone feeling bas, you go on because you want to do your best…there are people there to look after triathletes… Francois — *** Any opinion expressed above is strictly my own. *** Disclaimer: I said this. My company didn’t.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A point of view. At least Fernanda Keller hung on to the end of the race and moved up two spots in the award money. She was there to seize the opportunity. While there are numerous good reasons to drop out of a race (medical and technical), far too many pros, IMHO, dropped out due to a more difficult race then they expected. It is interesting that PNF dropped out only after Heather Fuhr passed her on the run. In my opinion, having a bad day is never an excuse to drop out. My ultimate respect goes to people who finish what they start – Karen Smyers (never dropped out of a race), Pauli Kuiri who blew up in the early nineties but finished, and this year Melissa Spooner. In first Ironman year she finished second at IMC and was in the top ten off the bike at IMH. Her marathon split was approx 5:30, but she finished. She emulates what the sport should be about. It is not about how fast, or where you place, but about doing it. Dalton

I don’t know if you have ever done the Hawaii Ironman (I haven’t), but I had  the chance to hear Mark Allen speak about the subject. He says that the mental  aspect of the race is incredibly important, and I have a hard time disagreeing  with him. It’s hard to imagine what goes through a person’s mind in an event  like that. When the body is depleted and the mind is trounced (as when a  competitor blows by), the race is over and even forward motion can be  impossible. It sounds like you’re saying that Paula Newby-Fraser is a quitter – that if she  doesn’t feel that she will win a race then she drops out. I don’t think this  is what the record shows. Jeff Roberts

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As I watched the women’s race unfold, I feel that I am a witness to the end of  an era. Just a feeling, but I think PNF’s reign in Kona is coming to an end.  I’m not trying to slight her, but the combination of the women’s field being  the strongest it ever has combined with her age has given me this feeling. I  hope she proves me wrong in next years IMH… On the other hand, for the men, it looks like the Germans are here to stay for  a while. The time at IMG proves it, and now, they are taking over IMH with a  vengence! Expect to see this for several years. Just my predictions for the coming years… Congratulations on everyone who finished IMH. "Iron Pete" Priolo IMC’96 – 10:36:37    IMC’97 – 10:42:53 ‘98 Gulf Coast Tri, IMC’98

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As I watched the women’s race unfold, I feel that I am a witness to the end of  an era. Just a feeling, but I think PNF’s reign in Kona is coming to an end.  I’m not trying to slight her, but the combination of the women’s field being  the strongest it ever has combined with her age has given me this feeling. I  hope she proves me wrong in next years IMH…

I had exactly the same feeling, Pete.  But at the same time, somehow I felt that it was "OK" for Paula to pull out that way.  Yes, I was disappointed to hear it, as I’m sure many were, but something about it just seemed cool!   For the Queen of Kona to say, "Hey, I’ve had it for the day, quitting time now," rather than feeling pressured that she HAD to continue, somehow spoke volumes about her sense of completion at the event.  It said that she felt comfortable admitting to weakness on that day, and that she had earned the right to call it a day when she felt really awful.  If she is capable of doing that, maybe it means she will continue to race at Hawaii for the enjoyment of it, even if she may not always be able to dominate as in the past.  Personally, I hope that is indeed the case, because I just feel that IMH will never be the same without her. I don’t know if that makes any sense, but that was the feeling I got. Whatever she decides to do, I will always regard her with an enormous amount of awe and respect.  Paula’s always been a really classy representative of our sport, and a tremendously inspiring one as well. On another note, did anyone else notice QRman’s post about Paula’s reaction to Fernanda Keller’s finish?  I was thinking, "Go, Paula!" because I share that sense of disgust with Fernanda’s lack of compassion and interest in her fellow racers.  Maybe I’m wrong, but something about it just seems kind of….heartless.  She could have at least stopped and cheered Sian on and offered some support before skipping off to the finish line. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Question:

This weekend sees the return of the Ontario Duathlon championship. Run-bike-run on a fast flat course Back also is Rob Hogan to get the race in action. Pros include Spenser Smith. There is also  a 5K run, Inline Skate. I have ridden the course and it is 18 miles of wide open boulevards on flat terrain. Sign up is Saturday at the Hilton Hotel Ontario. Ken Burres UltraCOACH

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This weekend sees the return of the Ontario Duathlon championship. Run-bike-run on a fast flat course Back also is Rob Hogan to get the race in action. Pros include Spenser Smith. There is also  a 5K run, Inline Skate. I have ridden the course and it is 18 miles of wide open boulevards on flat terrain. Sign up is Saturday at the Hilton Hotel Ontario. Ken Burres UltraCOACH

Are you talking about the Ontario Duathlon Championships in Ontario CANADA? THAT duathlon Championship race is May 26th in Hamilton Ontario Canada. It is also a run bike run but it’s anything but flat. Up the Niagara Escarpment if I remember correctly. I doubt Spencer would show for our race but would be pleased as punch if he did. I’ll be there to spectate anyway and will let you know if he shows. If anyone is interested in other races in the Ontario CANADA tri  series, call TriSport Promotions in Grimsby Ontario (905)-945-6608. I’m not involved with them at all. They just organize great drafting free races in the Worlds largest triathlon series! TriDork

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It’s Ontario, California (near Los Angeles) Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This weekend sees the return of the Ontario Duathlon championship. Run-bike-run on a fast flat course Back also is Rob Hogan to get the race in action. Pros include Spenser Smith. There is also  a 5K run, Inline Skate. I have ridden the course and it is 18 miles of wide open boulevards on flat terrain. Sign up is Saturday at the Hilton Hotel Ontario. Ken Burres UltraCOACH Are you talking about the Ontario Duathlon Championships in Ontario CANADA? THAT duathlon Championship race is May 26th in Hamilton Ontario Canada. It is also a run bike run but it’s anything but flat. Up the Niagara Escarpment if I remember correctly. I doubt Spencer would show for our race but would be pleased as punch if he did. I’ll be there to spectate anyway and will let you know if he shows. If anyone is interested in other races in the Ontario CANADA tri  series, call TriSport Promotions in Grimsby Ontario (905)-945-6608. I’m not involved with them at all. They just organize great drafting free races in the Worlds largest triathlon series! TriDork

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Watch out for Steve Chrapchenski.  He’s been w/us here in Austin, Texas training hard in the Texas Hill Country.    Kick ass Steve!!!

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How come you aren’t racing? If you are going to drive down from Guelph and be in Hamilton anyway you may as well race.  If Trispouse is anything like my wife a race is a race wether you are competing or not. I will be completing in Hamilton and was hoping there would be an RSTer get together sometime after the race.  I don’t know the area very well so I can’t suggest any good meeting places. Any suggestions or ideas? I believe that the course is a 3 x 10 km loop on the bike. I hope that they haven’t managed to make us go up and down the escarpment 3 times. I’m not sure that my legs are up to it yet, with all the cold weather and rain the biking mileage isn’t what it should be.  Since this will be my first race of the season I have no great aspirations and will be happy to see the finish line without any bodily damage.

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Hmmm, do you have course details? I used to live in downtown Hamilton, so I might actually know where you’re talking about. You’ve got me  intrigued (and worried too, because I’ve only just begun  my quad-crushing hill workouts on the bike). I’ll phone the RD and see if I can get a scoop. Glad I did lots of weights this year! -j  

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Yeah, I hear it’s a fast crit-style course on closed city streets. I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes out past the royal Botanical Gardens, on part of the 30k around the bay running route. I think there’s one hill on that route, but nothing to really get out of the saddle for. Could see some speedy times! I’d be interested in meeting you guys after the race. I’ll be staying at the Sheraton near the race site. The convention centre (TZ, etc) is right downtown and a good place to convene. I’ll be somewhere there… Jordan Smith.

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I think it will likely use the same 10km loop they used at the roadie champs in Hamilton last year. 3 times up the escarpment means bye bye to those fast times you were hoping for. I rode part of the ATB course on tues and that damned wooden plank bridge is fun and exciting at speed on a bike. I don’t think the boards are held down with anything and they bounce around like crazy, making a ton of noise. I’m sure it scares the hell out of the fishermen, not to mention the fish! TriDork

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Question:

—— thank you all for your great ideas and concern… healing is in progress and going well. I thought I’d let you know that since I have several spots to work with I’m trying several different techniques and I’ll let you know the final results in a few more days. Now if only there were a home health remedy for bent wheels… Dan

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Tennent) writes: The essential thing, as several people have mentioned, is to keep it moist with salves. Do NOT let it scab over. It’ll heal cleaner and faster if you don’t.

Right!!  But not quite that simple either.  The old saying in dermatology is:                            "If it’s wet, dry it.  If it’s dry, wet it" For road rash it is important to avoid a really gooey texture.  Air drying is a help at times – but not to the point of making it crusty. Byron J. Byron Walthall, Jr. Charlotte, NC, USA

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what I’m wondering is which approach is faster and scars less for large areas, especially in an area that bends like a shoulder? any comments on covering with plastic wrap? I’ve never done this, and am a little concerned about giving things a chance to breath. When you DO clean the gunk off, I assume scrubbing is not good… just dab and put on more ointment?

        Dan,         Just put nothing on it neither cover it ! The most important measure is the washing you have done.  . To my knowledge,  there is nothing to date that accelerate a scar healing . If it is not infected ,  proper nutrition will take care of that. The more stuff (ointments, plastics, atc) you add , more time healing cells will take to get rid of it  and delay tissue growth. Dan

Julio Neves ,MD Brazilian Tri-DOC Founder and Pope of the Erotic Witness Church

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what I’m wondering is which approach is faster and scars less for large areas, especially in an area that bends like a shoulder? any comments on covering with plastic wrap? I’ve never done this, and am a little concerned about giving things a chance to breath. When you DO clean the gunk off, I assume scrubbing is not good… just dab and put on more ointment?

Dan, you may want to head to your doctor’s office and see if he/she will prescribe some silvadene.  This is a burn ointment wich works rather well for road rash (burn)  I took a rather nasty tumble last year in a race and decided to use my health care benifits.  for the little rashes I applied vitamin E to the wound.  For the large one on my back I applied the silvadene and Covered it with gauze. the recovery was amazingly quick and there is no scar where there should be   Hope this helps, Andy Hill Oneonta, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few days ago I unfortunately took a 30MPH spill on my bike, and have a few spots of road-rash to experiment on… Most are not too big, but my right shoulder has a patch that is about 6"x8" and it is continuing to stick to clothes, etc. Dan: Unfortunatly I have some experience in this area. Here is what worked best for me when I tried the high speed dismount. 1. Keep the rash wet. It is messy but it heals faster and leaves much less of a scar. many people told me to let them dry but a very good doctor who was also an excellent triathlete got me on the wet method and the scars from these wounds are much better than where I let it dry and crack.

<snipped. Hope this help. Free advice, worth exactly what it costs. Heal fast. ZAG

My wife has vast experience with floor burns from her figure (roller) skating days. The essential thing, as several people have mentioned, is to keep it moist with salves. Do NOT let it scab over. It’ll heal cleaner and faster if you don’t. A big problem with letting it scab is that you keep knocking the scabs off and the healing process has to start over again. Mike Tennent WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Advertise your race. FTP Race Apps, FAQ http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good approaches I’ve been able to find are: – good initial cleaning; soap, water, toothbrush, peroxide – depending on size and location either;         1. let it dry and scab         2. apply polysporin or similar ointment. This is pretty            messy, but some people cover with plastic wrap?! – apply vit E to reduce scarring and keep out of sun what I’m wondering is which approach is faster and scars less for large areas, especially in an area that bends like a shoulder? any comments on covering with plastic wrap? I’ve never done this, and am a little concerned about giving things a chance to breath. When you DO clean the gunk off, I assume scrubbing is not good… just dab and put on more ointment? Dan

Follow everyones advice and don’t let it scab; takes too long to heal. My accidents required a visit to the ER and the most wonderful thing about that is they gave me a salve called Silvadine.  I’m told its a sulfa(sp?) based salve.  All I know is that my road rash healed faster than some other more minor wounds treated with neosporin.  I don’t know if you can get this product over the counter yet, but it is definitely worth checking out. Hope you heal quickly. —    Stacy J. Hills    Code 8222, Bldg 116                  Phone: (401) 841-4504    Naval Undersea Warfare Center        FAX:   (401) 841-2223    Newport, RI 02841                    DSN:   948-4504

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  A few days ago I unfortunately took a 30MPH spill on my bike, and have a few spots of road-rash to experiment on… Most are not too big, but my right shoulder has a patch that is about 6"x8" and it is continuing to stick to clothes, etc. Good approaches I’ve been able to find are: – good initial cleaning; soap, water, toothbrush, peroxide – depending on size and location either;         1. let it dry and scab         2. apply polysporin or similar ointment. This is pretty            messy, but some people cover with plastic wrap?! – apply vit E to reduce scarring and keep out of sun what I’m wondering is which approach is faster and scars less for large areas, especially in an area that bends like a shoulder?

Dan: Unfortunatly I have some experience in this area. Here is what worked best for me when I tried the high speed dismount. 1. Keep the rash wet. It is messy but it heals faster and leaves much less of a scar. many people told me to let them dry but a very good doctor who was also an excellent triathlete got me on the wet method and the scars from these wounds are much better than where I let it dry and crack. 2. Here is a good way to get your shirt back on again.    - Clean the wound thoroughly, soap, water and as stiff a brush as you can stand to get the grit out.    - Slather on the neo or polysporin.    - Cover with "Second Skin", this is a damp antiseptic dressing which you can get at most drug stores.    - Cover the whole thing with gauze or a breathable dressing.    - Clean and change the dressing about very 6-12 hours. Don’t let it dry out and stick. Less ffrequently as time passes.    - When you can, leave the wound open to air but wet with the neosporin. Hope this help. Free advice, worth exactly what it costs. Heal fast. ZAG

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sorry this posting is a little gross and might be on a topic you’d rather not think about… I did a little digging through old postings and found a couple different approaches, but I thought I would solicit any personal experiences or additions anyone has. A few days ago I unfortunately took a 30MPH spill on my bike, and have a few spots of road-rash to experiment on… Most are not too big, but my right shoulder has a patch that is about 6"x8" and it is continuing to stick to clothes, etc. Good approaches I’ve been able to find are: – good initial cleaning; soap, water, toothbrush, peroxide – depending on size and location either;         1. let it dry and scab         2. apply polysporin or similar ointment. This is pretty            messy, but some people cover with plastic wrap?! – apply vit E to reduce scarring and keep out of sun what I’m wondering is which approach is faster and scars less for large areas, especially in an area that bends like a shoulder? any comments on covering with plastic wrap? I’ve never done this, and am a little concerned about giving things a chance to breath. When you DO clean the gunk off, I assume scrubbing is not good… just dab and put on more ointment? Dan

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Question:

: I’m in the process of setting up a home page on the www. I’m including : triathlon and cycling links as my main features. However, I don’t have and : triathlon www addresses ( a bit of a problem for my home page). : Thus, I’m looking for all the triathlon www pages I can get. PLEASE : send me some. Perhaps my page will become a useful tool for those searching : the net for triathlon info. try   http://iac.net/~miller/triathlon-home.html :  Metro Cycle Club  Halifax, NS                       :  ACADIA UNIVERSITY                   __o       o   :  Physics/Math/Comp.     __/o_      ’ ,-     <| :  Wolfville, NS                    (*)/( )     –   :  CANADA                  ’TRI’n does a body good’                        

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i certainly hope it comes out like it’s in your head and not the way you’ve described it in ascii. Allright Mr. smarty-pants, I’ll have you know that I ftp’d a primer on html from Netscape, and I’m building my home page right now. When you see how great it looks you’ll be so impressed you’ll go right out and buy a Kilo.

no offense intended. — jesus left chicago went down to new orleans…                    - zz top

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<<no offense intended. None taken. QRman

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i certainly hope it comes out like it’s in your head and not the way you’ve described it in ascii.

Allright Mr. smarty-pants, I’ll have you know that I ftp’d a primer on html from Netscape, and I’m building my home page right now. When you see how great it looks you’ll be so impressed you’ll go right out and buy a Kilo. QRman

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: [snip] [stuff deleted] : luck).  I have heard that it is possible to "point" someone who is : perusing your home page to other home pages, in effect having a home page : act as a "gateway" to other home pages of a similar theme (and here I know : I’m using the term "gateway" in a totally imprecise manner). : Assuming this is possible, I hope those of us with pages on the brain will : organize them together in this fashion. : QRman — One of the most frustrating things on WWW is finding homepages that don’t have anything but links to other homepages, especially when these links are where you just linked from!  Go ahead and link to each other’s homepages–sounds great.  But put some information in there, as well. (p.s., if you ever get that ethernet thing figured out, let us know how it works.) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<    "If you’re not sure whether you mission in      |    life has been fulfilled, check to see if you’re | Lance W. Robinson    to do."                                         | <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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[snip] Realizing of course that I have no idea what I’m talking about on this issue (as well as many others, but my motto is TALK ON! anyway): I am setting up my home page.  I have it completely figured it in my head, and am now commencing toward getting it from there to the computer  (I attempted to cable my ear to the modem port via an Ethernet connection, no luck).  I have heard that it is possible to "point" someone who is perusing your home page to other home pages, in effect having a home page act as a "gateway" to other home pages of a similar theme (and here I know I’m using the term "gateway" in a totally imprecise manner). Assuming this is possible, I hope those of us with pages on the brain will organize them together in this fashion. QRman

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I maintain a Web page called "Cycling the Net" that contains links to many cycling related sites on the internet, as well as some Triathlon links. it is located at: http://www.kent.wednet.edu/dpbjs/cycling.html Brent Soderberg                                  __o     Seattle, Washington                             -<,     WWW Page: http://www.kent.wednet.edu/dpbjs/brent.html  

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I’m in the process of setting up a home page on the www. I’m including triathlon and cycling links as my main features. However, I don’t have and triathlon www addresses ( a bit of a problem for my home page). Thus, I’m looking for all the triathlon www pages I can get. PLEASE send me some. Perhaps my page will become a useful tool for those searching the net for triathlon info. I’m planning to be up and running by the end of the week before I head home for Christmas.  I’ll post my www site when it’s ready. thanks in advance, jason  Metro Cycle Club  Halifax, NS                        ACADIA UNIVERSITY                   __o       o    Physics/Math/Comp.     __/o_      ’ ,-     <|  Wolfville, NS                    (*)/( )     –    CANADA                  ’TRI’n does a body good’                        

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I’m in the process of setting up a home page on the www. I’m including triathlon and cycling links as my main features. However, I don’t have and triathlon www addresses ( a bit of a problem for my home page). Thus, I’m looking for all the triathlon www pages I can get. PLEASE send me some. Perhaps my page will become a useful tool for those searching the net for triathlon info. I’m planning to be up and running by the end of the week before I head home for Christmas.  I’ll post my www site when it’s ready. thanks in advance, jason

My home page is up and running  However, I only know of two triathlon pages and i don’t even know their url addresses. R.S.T can check out my page and send me comments by checking out: http://dragon.acadiau.ca:1667/~005963m/jay_homepage.html I’m still looking for triathlon url’s. jason  Metro Cycle Club  Halifax, NS                        ACADIA UNIVERSITY                   __o       o    Physics/Math/Comp.     __/o_      ’ ,-     <|  Wolfville, NS                    (*)/( )     –    CANADA                  ’TRI’n does a body good’                          jason’s experimental WWW home page  http://dragon.acadiau.ca:1667/~/005963m/jay_homepage.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Realizing of course that I have no idea what I’m talking about on this issue (as well as many others, but my motto is TALK ON! anyway): I am setting up my home page.  I have it completely figured it in my head, and am now commencing toward getting it from there to the computer  (I attempted to cable my ear to the modem port via an Ethernet connection, no luck).  I have heard that it is possible to "point" someone who is perusing your home page to other home pages, in effect having a home page act as a "gateway" to other home pages of a similar theme (and here I know I’m using the term "gateway" in a totally imprecise manner). Assuming this is possible, I hope those of us with pages on the brain will organize them together in this fashion. QRman

Sounds great. If r.s.t can keep it’s homepages linked ( hyperlinks ) then all of our information will be accessible. I’ll be looking forward to your home page QRman. I’ll be adding a link to Matt Mahoney’s home page on mine. I’ll be gone for the holidays for a couple of weeks so to everyone on r.s.t, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!! jason  Metro Cycle Club  Halifax, NS                        ACADIA UNIVERSITY                   __o       o    Physics/Math/Comp.     __/o_      ’ ,-     <|  Wolfville, NS                    (*)/( )     –    CANADA                  ’TRI’n does a body good’                          jason’s experimental WWW home page  http://dragon.acadiau.ca:1667/~/005963m/jay_homepage.html

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Realizing of course that I have no idea what I’m talking about on this issue (as well as many others, but my motto is TALK ON! anyway): I am setting up my home page.  I have it completely figured it in my head, and am now commencing toward getting it from there to the computer  (I attempted to cable my ear to the modem port via an Ethernet connection, no luck).

well, if you have sufficient error-checking turned on, it just might work.  also, ppp is better than slip and cslip.  i’ve also heard of a new technology.  you know that light your doctor shines in your ear (not the one he shines up your butt)?  well, try fiber optics from your brain, thru your ear and into a suitable port on your computer (ain’t technology wonderful?). I have heard that it is possible to "point" someone who is perusing your home page to other home pages, in effect having a home page act as a "gateway" to other home pages of a similar theme (and here I know I’m using the term "gateway" in a totally imprecise manner).

frightening, absolutely frightening. Assuming this is possible, I hope those of us with pages on the brain will organize them together in this fashion.  now i know why i never see any

r.s.t people in the comp hierarchy… i certainly hope it comes out like it’s in your head and not the way you’ve described it in ascii.

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Check out <A HREF="http://canyon.epg.harris.com/~mvm/" my home page.</A Its mostly pointers to running pages, but I’ll be adding other stuff later.  The Florida race calendar includes running and triathlons and should be updated monthly. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

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I’m in the process of setting up a home page on the www. I’m including triathlon and cycling links as my main features. However, I don’t have and triathlon www addresses ( a bit of a problem for my home page).

Funny you should ask….I know I’ve posted this address to others, but there is new info (and Photos!) on my page.  The address is as follows:      http://iac.net/~miller         (note the ~ before miller) I am also still looking for contributions.  Someone recently suggested that I post some of the more informative postings from this newsgroup.  Unfortunately I am not comfortable doing that without the author’s permission, as this would likely be a copyright violation (jury is still out on that issue).  BUT, I am more than willing to include any stories, articles, listings, photos, etc. that are sent to me by the author.  There a quite a few knowledgeable people on the Net (e.g, QRMan, Dr. Maffetone, and many others I am not intending to slight in any way), and I would love to be able to maintain some of their pearls of wisdom for all to access (hint, hint).  In fact, I’d be happy to include QRMan’s price list and catalog at my web site in exchange for a Kilo frame (hah! dream on, huh!).  ;)                                                         Noodle

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Question:

I am interested in both bicycling AND running over the spring and summer, but I would like to do both well, not just use one to cross- train for the other. I have been on both biking and running schedules in the past, but never a schedule that has both in serious amounts. My running goal is a half-marathon. My biking goal is a century ride. I don’t want to abandon one activity to do the other one. Any advice out there? Thanks in advance. — Beth Popovich

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| | I am interested in both bicycling AND running over the spring and | summer, but I would like to do both well, not just use one to cross- |  … | amounts. My running goal is a half-marathon. My biking goal is a | century ride. | | I don’t want to abandon one activity to do the other one. Any advice | out there? Thanks in advance. I train for Ironman events. What I find helpful is to set the running and biking on alternating cycles of heavy and light weeks. One week: hard bike training, light running Next week: light biking, hard running I find that I get into a rhythm and I can push the running up to marathon distances while doing long bike rides as well (up to 180km) Hope this helps — Hans Marc Kneppers                           Astronomy Department work: (519) 661-3183                         The University of Western Ontario fax:  (519) 661-2009                         London, Ont, N6A-3K7                                              O                       ,__          __o      <|                 ,— ____O      _`<_      _\                 ,—     __,   (*)/ (*)    `/                                              `

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I am interested in both bicycling AND running over the spring and summer, but I would like to do both well, not just use one to cross- train for the other. I have been on both biking and running schedules in the past, but never a schedule that has both in serious amounts. My running goal is a half-marathon. My biking goal is a century ride. I don’t want to abandon one activity to do the other one. Any advice out there? Thanks in advance.

I managed to run a marathon and ride a century last fall. I combined cycling and running workouts gleaned from books and experience. If a century schedule calls for an interval workout,for example, run it at the track once in a while. If your marathon schedule calls for LSD, do it on the bike. While you cannot ignore the importance of technique and specificity of training, for the most part, your body does not care if you are cycling or runninhg. Training energy systems is more important. If you are serious about competing in both sport, Triathlon Magazine often has training schedules for duathletes. Stephen Holt, CSCS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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