Question:

Fred, I think that is a great idea!  The Florida Chalenge was my fisrt half last year and I can’t wait to revist the site for another shot at this distance.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those of you who are looking for a long distance triathlon to the end the season with, or are looking for a replacement for Clermont’s Florida Challenge Triathlon, we now have just the race for you – The Great Floridian Half! The GFT Half will start when the GFT athletes are finishing the second lap of the swim course. GFT Half athletes will swim one lap of the swim course, and then bike the first 56 miles of the GFT’s 112 mile bike course. The run course will travel the same course as the full, but athletes will only transverse around Lake Minneola one time. The Great Floridian Triathlon, full and half, take place on October 19, 2002.  For complete details please visit the Great Floridian Website at http://greatfloridian.com

Response:

For those of you who are looking for a long distance triathlon to the end the season with, or are looking for a replacement for Clermont’s Florida Challenge Triathlon, we now have just the race for you – The Great Floridian Half! The GFT Half will start when the GFT athletes are finishing the second lap of the swim course. GFT Half athletes will swim one lap of the swim course, and then bike the first 56 miles of the GFT’s 112 mile bike course. The run course will travel the same course as the full, but athletes will only transverse around Lake Minneola one time. The Great Floridian Triathlon, full and half, take place on October 19, 2002.  For complete details please visit the Great Floridian Website at http://greatfloridian.com

Response:

Fred, I think that is a great idea!  The Florida Chalenge was my fisrt half last year and I can’t wait to revist the site for another shot at this distance. `

Yeah, sure. It’s great for you. What it means for me is that once I finally drag my water logged body out of the 2.4 mile swim, what few people are left in the water from the full IM distance will soon zip by me – followed closely by a horde of other fast bikers from the half. Great for my morale! "Passing on the left…" "Passing on the left…" "Passing on the left…" "Passing on the left…" "Passing on the left…" "Passing on the left…" "Passing on the left…" Bah, humbug!! <grin Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Response:

Excellent Fred. We’re glad to see you’ve came up with a replacement for the Challenge. See you in October! Terry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those of you who are looking for a long distance triathlon to the end the season with, or are looking for a replacement for Clermont’s Florida Challenge Triathlon, we now have just the race for you – The Great Floridian Half! The GFT Half will start when the GFT athletes are finishing the second lap of the swim course. GFT Half athletes will swim one lap of the swim course, and then bike the first 56 miles of the GFT’s 112 mile bike course. The run course will travel the same course as the full, but athletes will only transverse around Lake Minneola one time. The Great Floridian Triathlon, full and half, take place on October 19, 2002.  For complete details please visit the Great Floridian Website at http://greatfloridian.com

Response:

Question:

Radcliffe vows to continue campaign Paula Radcliffe insists she will continue her fight to expose drug cheats in athletics. The British runner knows her campaign is dangerous but says she will not be deterred. "There is a risk in rocking the boat and I realise that I could become a target for those who have something to hide," she said. "That will not stop me." More…. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/in_depth/2001/world_athletics/… Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

Response:

Radcliffe vows to continue campaign Paula Radcliffe insists she will continue her fight to expose drug cheats in athletics. The British runner knows her campaign is dangerous but says she will not be deterred. "There is a risk in rocking the boat and I realise that I could become a target for those who have something to hide," she said. "That will not stop me."<<

Good for her. I found it hillarious that El G. could _only_ barely break 3:31 in a timetrial-type EPO-TESTED WC 1500 final when he has no trouble running 4-5 seconds faster at the invitational meets… More…. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/in_depth/2001/world_athletics/…

id_1488000/1488232.stm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ken

Response:

Question:

Check out slowtwitch.com for some background on this whole story.

Response:

Check out slowtwitch.com for some background on this whole story.

DEFINITELY!!! Dan, what a great perspective! I really appreciate the opportunity to learn about what goes on in the background. Don’t keep us waiting for the next part! David / FEY2K IMCAL2000 16:53 (remove spaces) at att dot net

Response:

<< DEFINITELY!!! Dan, what a great perspective! I really appreciate the opportunity to learn about what goes on in the background. Don’t keep us waiting for the next part!   agreed! peggy

Response:

One thing that is more prominent in Oz than the US, most of our Top Pro’s will race any old event even if theres no prize money. This doesn’t seem to be so much the case in Nth America. Look at the results in the Triathlon Digest and you will see Emma Carney et al winning races that would be lucky to pay travel costs. I hope someone does built a US National Series up again but I know it will be a long haul. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think everyone fails to see one thing about our sport. There is very little money to be made. Everyone from the race directors to the pros know that you will not make much money putting races on or trying to win them.  Granted, there are a few people in the US and world that do this(Michellie Jones, Hunter Kemper, Simon Lessing, etc) but the majority of the people don’t.  They still have to make money from somewhere else. I think even if someone put another series on it would require more than just good turnouts.  It would requre the event director to be very careful in budgetting his money.  That is one of the main reasons why the USTS/NATS has sunk so many times already. Just my two cents. jOe Happened to log onto USTS’s site and it looks like they paid their $$$ to keep the site alive.  Anyone heard updated news on whether the pros got paid from the 2000 races? Chris — "No success can compensate for failure in the home" — David O. McKay

Response:

It would be good to see a US National Series, I did one of the USTS races at Hilton Head Island in ‘90-91, not sure when, and they were great,

I think it was the Bud Light Triathlon Series back then.  I did one in San Diego in ‘92 that was super.  Big pro field and great AG race.  The next year it was cut down to a sprint and the pro field was Scott Tinley and a female pro in an exhibition match.  The promoter, CAT Sports, went broke that season and reportedly owed money to pros and others. I wonder if there’s anyone willing to pick it up after this most recent disaster? Larry

Response:

I think everyone fails to see one thing about our sport. There is very little money to be made. Everyone from the race directors to the pros know that you will not make much money putting races on or trying to win them.  Granted, there are a few people in the US and world that do this(Michellie Jones, Hunter Kemper, Simon Lessing, etc) but the majority of the people don’t.  They still have to make money from somewhere else. I think even if someone put another series on it would require more than just good turnouts.  It would requre the event director to be very careful in budgetting his money.  That is one of the main reasons why the USTS/NATS has sunk so many times already. Just my two cents. jOe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Happened to log onto USTS’s site and it looks like they paid their $$$ to keep the site alive.  Anyone heard updated news on whether the pros got paid from the 2000 races? Chris — "No success can compensate for failure in the home" — David O. McKay

Response:

It would be good to see a US National Series, I did one of the USTS races at Hilton Head Island in ‘90-91, not sure when, and they were great, I had ‘hoped’ to have another go this season pre IMC but alas it might not be, but it would be good to see. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – fair enough.  no harm no foul.  I personally believe that if the USTS/NATS or another equivalent national series gets revitalized in the US they will have good attendance and support regardless of the complaints in RST or elsewhere, as long as they do a good job marketing the races. Something is going on as the website does have a "coming soon" page up, but who knows what it is. I’ll go to a couple of the races.  I enjoy racing.  It’s fun.  I started because it’s fun, you get to meet new people, go new places.  Plus, in defense of the old series, the races were organized well (from a participant’s standpoint) and had good competition. cheers, Marty However look at it as a whole. Had the USTS/NATS been in a position to be rescued the damages caused my misc postings harms not only the race directors but the sponsors and the whole triathlon community. LW

Response:

fair enough.  no harm no foul.  I personally believe that if the USTS/NATS or another equivalent national series gets revitalized in the US they will have good attendance and support regardless of the complaints in RST or elsewhere, as long as they do a good job marketing the races. Something is going on as the website does have a "coming soon" page up, but who knows what it is. I’ll go to a couple of the races.  I enjoy racing.  It’s fun.  I started because it’s fun, you get to meet new people, go new places.  Plus, in defense of the old series, the races were organized well (from a participant’s standpoint) and had good competition. cheers, Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However look at it as a whole. Had the USTS/NATS been in a position to be rescued the damages caused my misc postings harms not only the race directors but the sponsors and the whole triathlon community. LW

Response:

Having been made aware that you were chasing money I had apologised for the tone and wording of my post. However look at it as a whole. Had the USTS/NATS been in a position to be rescued the damages caused my misc postings harms not only the race directors but the sponsors and the whole triathlon community. LW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lloyd, I would think you’re an attentive enough reader to know I don’t throw rumors and innuendos onto the fire, but obviously not.  I guess maybe you guys down under don’t "read" every post.  Guess what?  I can do better.  The business is folded.  Ken McKenzie is unreachable.  I did not get paid $800.  Bugger off with my rumors.  I gave them every chance they had to explain what was going on.  Speaking for myself, I wrote them a couple letters and called a few phone numbers.  Guess what?  There was nobody home.  I am sure that if YOU were in charge of this series this never would have happened, but as you are limited to the southern hemisphere, why not let us work out our northern hemisphere problems. If someone in this newsgroup asks a question I have the answer to, I’m going to answer it.  Just like you do in your occasionally caustic manner. I also read your note discussing the business aspect of the situation. The truth is that everyone would be very happy to have a national series in the US.  We would be extremely happy.  But the truth is that there was obviously some mismanagement of this series and the advertised prize money did not get distributed.  According to other people whose word I have no reason to doubt, local RDs and other people associated with the series also did not get paid what they were due. When you say we are not alone in not getting paid, are you suggesting we should humbly accept it as our fate?  If I did that I would never have gotten anywhere in life.  When you get shafted, do you just take it?  I didn’t think so.  Am I going to sit around and watch and hope, with my fingers crossed and eyes aglow, that one day down the road, just maybe, just maybe oh wish upon a star Dorothy, that I’ll get some cash back?  Dude, your dreaming.  What does a business with money outstanding do to those that owe it money?  Call, call, call, file complaints, then file with a collection agency. Once again I would say that, regardless of the character references Mr. MacKenzie has, by not responding to all these circumstances in any way, shape, or form, he is hurting himself and us.  It’s not my fault.  I don’t want the guy to personally suffer, as I don’t wish that on anyone, but he didn’t even mail out a statement saying he was working things out.  IE, he is not working things out. The business is already destroyed, bud.  That happened last year.  If it gets resurrected, I will accept it as the Phoenix rising from the ashes.  I believe everyone else will as well. As for restarting the business, have at it!! Anyone! buy it, run it, make it your life, and do it well.  I just ride the bike.  I don’t make it, nor do I close down the streets on which to ride. Marty Gaal Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. LW You guys are not alone in losing money, it happens every day in every sport and business and I hate it as much as anyone but look at it from the point of view of a business person. It is simply a debt just like the hundreds of other businesses that go broke every year this one hurts people but unlike a lot of business bankruptcies the athletes did not loose any of their own money apart from maybe travel costs etc. So they are crying fowl and trying to destroy a business, its name and the name of the backers/sponsors over what is essentially prize money won not actually money they had themselves invested, or entrusted on credit. That’s the reality of it and I do not condone in any manner or form race directors failing to meet contractual obligations for prize money but to look at the bigger picture there is now no USTS and people are making it even harder for someone to resurrect the USTS by constantly attacking it with rumours and other stories, even if they end up being true. So many people have stood up for the race director and there are as many good reports of the man and his business dealings as there are bad ones. What my point is that the USTS is an asset that can be sold or used to help recover the money lost. Just look at how many people keep asking about it and saying how not having the USTS is a big loss. Its a huge loss, not having a National series to compete in, a far bigger a loss to the sport than a handful of athletes loosing prize money. By posting constant defamatory remarks and rumours about the event, its parent company and its directors you are cutting your own throats. Sort of like burning down your own house to avoid paying mortgage payments to spite your bank, you still have the debt but now you don’t have the asset to sell to pay the debts!!! What would I do, find someone who can buy, or take over the USTS and hopefully rebuild it to a profit making venture, work with the previous management to get the real story on the losses suffered so the same mistakes should not be made again. If there is any signs of illegal or improper management then sure look at suing the management to recover costs. Ever wonder why a lot of bankruptcy trustees do not immediately make any statements of business dealings etc about company CEO’s and Directors after a company is placed into the hands of receivers/liquidators. Its because the small amount of information they are likely to get from the management could well help in explaining the companies losses and what and where they went wrong. With this knowledge they can make a more accurate call as to just how good an asset/business is left and if it is a viable entity that could pay its way clear of debt. LW Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. Marty speaks the truth so there is no reason to flame him.  Part of the problem is that pros are so used to getting paid months after the races that it has become the norm.  "Letting the matter sort itself out" has been the problem.  Had the athletes complained and insisted on getting paid on time early in the series maybe this whole situation could have been avoided. The pros gave Ken MONTHS to try to settle his debts or even provide an explanation.  He has been virtually unreachable since October (invalid email address, unpaid website, Quest events dissolved) and when one pro was finally able to get him on the phone the connection got cut off.  When he re-dialed, surprise, nobody picked up. We waited patiently for explanations and everyone wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  What is your suggestion? Believe me, we would be interested in any viable solution. -hug(also owed $$ from 2 NATS races)

Response:

Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they

belong. Marty speaks the truth so there is no reason to flame him.  Part of the problem is that pros are so used to getting paid months after the races that it has become the norm.  "Letting the matter sort itself out" has been the problem.  Had the athletes complained and insisted on getting paid on time early in the series maybe this whole situation could have been avoided. The pros gave Ken MONTHS to try to settle his debts or even provide an explanation.  He has been virtually unreachable since October (invalid email address, unpaid website, Quest events dissolved) and when one pro was finally able to get him on the phone the connection got cut off.  When he re-dialed, surprise, nobody picked up. We waited patiently for explanations and everyone wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  What is your suggestion? Believe me, we would be interested in any viable solution. -hug(also owed $$ from 2 NATS races)

Response:

You guys are not alone in losing money, it happens every day in every sport and business and I hate it as much as anyone but look at it from the point of view of a business person. It is simply a debt just like the hundreds of other businesses that go broke every year this one hurts people but unlike a lot of business bankruptcies the athletes did not loose any of their own money apart from maybe travel costs etc. So they are crying fowl and trying to destroy a business, its name and the name of the backers/sponsors over what is essentially prize money won not actually money they had themselves invested, or entrusted on credit. That’s the reality of it and I do not condone in any manner or form race directors failing to meet contractual obligations for prize money but to look at the bigger picture there is now no USTS and people are making it even harder for someone to resurrect the USTS by constantly attacking it with rumours and other stories, even if they end up being true. So many people have stood up for the race director and there are as many good reports of the man and his business dealings as there are bad ones. What my point is that the USTS is an asset that can be sold or used to help recover the money lost. Just look at how many people keep asking about it and saying how not having the USTS is a big loss. Its a huge loss, not having a National series to compete in, a far bigger a loss to the sport than a handful of athletes loosing prize money. By posting constant defamatory remarks and rumours about the event, its parent company and its directors you are cutting your own throats. Sort of like burning down your own house to avoid paying mortgage payments to spite your bank, you still have the debt but now you don’t have the asset to sell to pay the debts!!! What would I do, find someone who can buy, or take over the USTS and hopefully rebuild it to a profit making venture, work with the previous management to get the real story on the losses suffered so the same mistakes should not be made again. If there is any signs of illegal or improper management then sure look at suing the management to recover costs. Ever wonder why a lot of bankruptcy trustees do not immediately make any statements of business dealings etc about company CEO’s and Directors after a company is placed into the hands of receivers/liquidators. Its because the small amount of information they are likely to get from the management could well help in explaining the companies losses and what and where they went wrong. With this knowledge they can make a more accurate call as to just how good an asset/business is left and if it is a viable entity that could pay its way clear of debt. LW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. Marty speaks the truth so there is no reason to flame him.  Part of the problem is that pros are so used to getting paid months after the races that it has become the norm.  "Letting the matter sort itself out" has been the problem.  Had the athletes complained and insisted on getting paid on time early in the series maybe this whole situation could have been avoided. The pros gave Ken MONTHS to try to settle his debts or even provide an explanation.  He has been virtually unreachable since October (invalid email address, unpaid website, Quest events dissolved) and when one pro was finally able to get him on the phone the connection got cut off.  When he re-dialed, surprise, nobody picked up. We waited patiently for explanations and everyone wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  What is your suggestion? Believe me, we would be interested in any viable solution. -hug(also owed $$ from 2 NATS races)

Response:

Lloyd, I would think you’re an attentive enough reader to know I don’t throw rumors and innuendos onto the fire, but obviously not.  I guess maybe you guys down under don’t "read" every post.  Guess what?  I can do better.  The business is folded.  Ken McKenzie is unreachable.  I did not get paid $800.  Bugger off with my rumors.  I gave them every chance they had to explain what was going on.  Speaking for myself, I wrote them a couple letters and called a few phone numbers.  Guess what?  There was nobody home.  I am sure that if YOU were in charge of this series this never would have happened, but as you are limited to the southern hemisphere, why not let us work out our northern hemisphere problems. If someone in this newsgroup asks a question I have the answer to, I’m going to answer it.  Just like you do in your occasionally caustic manner. I also read your note discussing the business aspect of the situation. The truth is that everyone would be very happy to have a national series in the US.  We would be extremely happy.  But the truth is that there was obviously some mismanagement of this series and the advertised prize money did not get distributed.  According to other people whose word I have no reason to doubt, local RDs and other people associated with the series also did not get paid what they were due. When you say we are not alone in not getting paid, are you suggesting we should humbly accept it as our fate?  If I did that I would never have gotten anywhere in life.  When you get shafted, do you just take it?  I didn’t think so.  Am I going to sit around and watch and hope, with my fingers crossed and eyes aglow, that one day down the road, just maybe, just maybe oh wish upon a star Dorothy, that I’ll get some cash back?  Dude, your dreaming.  What does a business with money outstanding do to those that owe it money?  Call, call, call, file complaints, then file with a collection agency. Once again I would say that, regardless of the character references Mr. MacKenzie has, by not responding to all these circumstances in any way, shape, or form, he is hurting himself and us.  It’s not my fault.  I don’t want the guy to personally suffer, as I don’t wish that on anyone, but he didn’t even mail out a statement saying he was working things out.  IE, he is not working things out. The business is already destroyed, bud.  That happened last year.  If it gets resurrected, I will accept it as the Phoenix rising from the ashes.  I believe everyone else will as well. As for restarting the business, have at it!! Anyone! buy it, run it, make it your life, and do it well.  I just ride the bike.  I don’t make it, nor do I close down the streets on which to ride. Marty Gaal Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are not alone in losing money, it happens every day in every sport and business and I hate it as much as anyone but look at it from the point of view of a business person. It is simply a debt just like the hundreds of other businesses that go broke every year this one hurts people but unlike a lot of business bankruptcies the athletes did not loose any of their own money apart from maybe travel costs etc. So they are crying fowl and trying to destroy a business, its name and the name of the backers/sponsors over what is essentially prize money won not actually money they had themselves invested, or entrusted on credit. That’s the reality of it and I do not condone in any manner or form race directors failing to meet contractual obligations for prize money but to look at the bigger picture there is now no USTS and people are making it even harder for someone to resurrect the USTS by constantly attacking it with rumours and other stories, even if they end up being true. So many people have stood up for the race director and there are as many good reports of the man and his business dealings as there are bad ones. What my point is that the USTS is an asset that can be sold or used to help recover the money lost. Just look at how many people keep asking about it and saying how not having the USTS is a big loss. Its a huge loss, not having a National series to compete in, a far bigger a loss to the sport than a handful of athletes loosing prize money. By posting constant defamatory remarks and rumours about the event, its parent company and its directors you are cutting your own throats. Sort of like burning down your own house to avoid paying mortgage payments to spite your bank, you still have the debt but now you don’t have the asset to sell to pay the debts!!! What would I do, find someone who can buy, or take over the USTS and hopefully rebuild it to a profit making venture, work with the previous management to get the real story on the losses suffered so the same mistakes should not be made again. If there is any signs of illegal or improper management then sure look at suing the management to recover costs. Ever wonder why a lot of bankruptcy trustees do not immediately make any statements of business dealings etc about company CEO’s and Directors after a company is placed into the hands of receivers/liquidators. Its because the small amount of information they are likely to get from the management could well help in explaining the companies losses and what and where they went wrong. With this knowledge they can make a more accurate call as to just how good an asset/business is left and if it is a viable entity that could pay its way clear of debt. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. Marty speaks the truth so there is no reason to flame him.  Part of the problem is that pros are so used to getting paid months after the races that it has become the norm.  "Letting the matter sort itself out" has been the problem.  Had the athletes complained and insisted on getting paid on time early in the series maybe this whole situation could have been avoided. The pros gave Ken MONTHS to try to settle his debts or even provide an explanation.  He has been virtually unreachable since October (invalid email address, unpaid website, Quest events dissolved) and when one pro was finally able to get him on the phone the connection got cut off.  When he re-dialed, surprise, nobody picked up. We waited patiently for explanations and everyone wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  What is your suggestion? Believe me, we would be interested in any viable solution. -hug(also owed $$ from 2 NATS races)

Response:

Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. LW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nobody got paid.  They are collectively gonna sue Mr. McKenzie, who’s already facing a few other lawsuits.  I don’t know who paid to keep the site alive, just another mystery to be unravelled. Happened to log onto USTS’s site and it looks like they paid their $$$ to keep the site alive.  Anyone heard updated news on whether the pros got paid from the 2000 races? Chris — "No success can compensate for failure in the home" — David O. McKay

Response:

YO! Lloyd…Since Marty is one of those unpaid pros, still waiting for his check from the USTS Series Championship race, I’d say his comments are as close as one can get to the real story. Since the USTS people have offered no comment at all, the maligned parties have a right to update us as to what is currently going on without being called liars and rumourmongers. If he refers to a lawsuit, I would assume that he is a part of it. cheers, Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not throw more rumours, lies, innuendo’s etc…. onto the fire and make sure they don’t have a chance to do the right thing and bail themselves out. If you can do better then sure stand up and say so otherwise how about letting the matter sort itself out and keep your rumours where they belong. LW nobody got paid.  They are collectively gonna sue Mr. McKenzie, who’s already facing a few other lawsuits.  I don’t know who paid to keep the site alive, just another mystery to be unravelled. Happened to log onto USTS’s site and it looks like they paid their $$$ to keep the site alive.  Anyone heard updated news on whether the pros got paid from the 2000 races? Chris — "No success can compensate for failure in the home" — David O. McKay

Response:

nobody got paid.  They are collectively gonna sue Mr. McKenzie, who’s already facing a few other lawsuits.  I don’t know who paid to keep the site alive, just another mystery to be unravelled. Happened to log onto USTS’s site and it looks like they paid their $$$ to keep the site alive.  Anyone heard updated news on whether the pros got paid from the 2000 races? Chris — "No success can compensate for failure in the home" — David O. McKay

Response:

Happened to log onto USTS’s site and it looks like they paid their $$$ to keep the site alive.  Anyone heard updated news on whether the pros got paid from the 2000 races? Chris — "No success can compensate for failure in the home" — David O. McKay

Response:

Question:

OOI how many of the posters here are members of triathlon clubs, as opposed to Masters groups or cycling clubs? I am, but only to get access to a pool. I’m curious to know if club membership is as common elsewhere as it is here in Sweden. Phil Squire http://w1.116.telia.com/%7Eu11602093/index.htm

Response:

Yes, I’m a club member. The New Years Day Triathlon had about 40% of entries giving a triathlon club. This is probably on the low side since this race attracts a large number of novices Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OOI how many of the posters here are members of triathlon clubs, as opposed to Masters groups or cycling clubs? I am, but only to get access to a pool. I’m curious to know if club membership is as common elsewhere as it is here in Sweden. Phil Squire http://w1.116.telia.com/%7Eu11602093/index.htm

Response:

Club member here. Also part of a masters group and runners association. We’ve got a great cycling club here too, but I haven’t worked up the guts to ride with them yet. Tom Member of Tri Gulf Coast — http://www.sritri.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OOI how many of the posters here are members of triathlon clubs, as opposed to Masters groups or cycling clubs? I am, but only to get access to a pool. I’m curious to know if club membership is as common elsewhere as it is here in Sweden. Phil Squire http://w1.116.telia.com/%7Eu11602093/index.htm

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Phil Squire  says… OOI how many of the posters here are members of triathlon clubs, as opposed to Masters groups or cycling clubs?

Yep. Although around here most of the triathletes are also members of the local Jogging Club and the local Cycle Club.   AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://get.to/itc    

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OOI how many of the posters here are members of triathlon clubs, as opposed to Masters groups or cycling clubs?

I’d never belong to any club that would have me as a member.

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I’d never belong to any club that would have me as a member.

-Groucho Marx

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Question:

I received an application for a triathlon in Long Island on (I think) June 14, but I seem to have misplaced it.  I was wondering if anyone had any information about this.                                                 Thanks,                                                   Charlie

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[ message cc'ed to poster] I received an application for a triathlon in Long Island on (I think) June 14, but I seem to have misplaced it.  I was wondering if anyone had any information about this.

Charlie, This was recently posted on r.s.t. HTH, Lance Path: news.panix.com!panix!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87. 25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sp rintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!198.207.193.7!cedar.liii.com!not-fo r-mail Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: Long Island Information, Inc.  516-INTERNET Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: xl.liii.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 The Second Annual running of the Long Island Gold Coast Triathlon is being held in Port Washington,Long Island, NY on Sunday June 21, 1998! The event, sanctioned by USA Triathlon will be a sprint race (.75k swim, 20k bike and 5k run).  There will be awards for the top 5 overall male and female finishers as well as the top three males and females in each age catagory (5 year brackets).  There will also be recognition of the top 3 relay teams in each division (male, female and mixed teams).   The course is compact and very spectator friendly, only 35 minutes east of New York City and we have again arranged for a CLOSED course. All roads being used for the race will be closed from 7:45 AM until the last bike has returned to the final transition.  The first swimmer enters the water at 8AM.  Please note that you must register before race day.  Race packet pickup is scheduled for Saturday June 20, at Great Neck South High School, which is about 200 yards off eastbound exit 33 of the Long Island Expressway. ALL proceeds of the race will go to benefit the Port Washington Community Chest and the Great Neck United Community Fund. For additional information and a race application, email the Race your "snail mail" address and we will send you a race flyer and registration application. Thanks for participating in our race! The Krostich Family Great Neck, NY — | Lance Ball | Imagination is greater than knowledge.  – A.E. | 97 E9 02 55 96 39 AE C9  FC AE D1 AF 46 6A AB 7D

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I received an application for a triathlon in Long Island on (I think) June 14, but I seem to have misplaced it.  I was wondering if anyone had any information about this.

There is also the Mighty Montauk Tri. Montauk Sports 371 West Lake Dr. Montauk, NY 11954 PH: 516/668-4245 Fax: 516/668-0329 Cheers,         Matt

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I received an application for a triathlon in Long Island on (I think) June 14, but I seem to have misplaced it.  I was wondering if anyone had any information about this.                                            Thanks,                                              Charlie

Charlie, The Long Island Gold Coast Triathlon & Relay is being held on June 21st in Port Washington, NY.  I can send you another application if you will send me your snail mail address.  There was also a posting about the race to this group around the end of March. The race in a sprint tri.  .75k open water swim, 20k bike and a 5k run.  The bike course is on CLOSED roads, no vehicles will be permitted during the race.  The run in divided between asphalt and grass surfaces.   I’d be happy to answer any questions that you may still have. Henry Krostich, Race Organizer Long Island Gold Coast Triathlon

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Question:

    What in God’s name would you need a pool for in Panama City beach? I have done that race many times, so I am familiar with the area and am not just responding based on the words Gulf Coast. You have an entire beautiful sea to swim in, no turns, clear water, open water experience (navigation). I can’t figure why anyone would want to look for a pool to swim in. Maybe to sit around and relax, jump in now and then to cool of, but to swim!!!   Come on.

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GULF COAST COMMUNITY COLLEGE HAS A LAP POOL BUT I AM NOT SURE IF YOU CAN SWIM THERE WITHOUT BEING A STUDENT. THERE IS A SWIM AND TENNIS CLUB LOCATED IN PANAMA CITY ON HWY 390 (IT’S ABOUT 8 – 10 MILES FROM WHERE THE RACE IS).  I DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THAT POOL EITHER. IF YOU ARE CONNECTED IN ANY WAY WITH THE MILITARY, THE NAVAL DIVE SCHOOL (IT’S ABOUT 5 MILES FROM THE RACE – YOU’LL PASS IT WHEN RIDING YOUR BIKE DURING THE TRIATHLON) HAS A LAP POOL WHERE WE SWIM.  IT IS HEATED AND LAP SWIMMING HOURS ARE FROM 11:30AM – 12:30PM AND 3:30PM – 5:00PM. PLEASE LOOK US UP AT THE RACE AND WE’LL SEE IF WE CAN GET YOU MORE INFORMATION.  I’LL BE AT REGISTRATION MOST OF THE TIME (IF I’M NOT THERE WHEN YOU COME BY, STOP BACK IN AS I AM THE ACCOUNTANT FOR THE GCT AND WILL BE IN AND OUT)  AND PEEWEE WILL BE MANNING THE COMPUTRAINER AND GCT BOOTH AT THE EXPO (POOR GUY TORE HIS MEDIAL MENISCUS AND CAN’T RACE THE GCT).

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will be doing GCT then spending a few extra days in Panama City before heading to Memphis. Does anyone know of any pools in Panama City where we could grab a workout in.. Like a YMCA or a swim club.. Thanks Scott

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Your 2 cents accepted. I still think a hilly ten miles is a long way on a plastic seat and cold forged steel frame. I know that I wouldn’t want to do it. My son does like to race but he is also very competetive — in his own right — not only for me. He "races" in every aspect of his life, schoolwork, spelling bees, even stuff that isn’t supposed to be competetive. I was the same way as a kid. I know also that you’re right about a cheap bike being all you need to overcome those kids with the serious equipment. My son won a bike race against a kid with goggles and an aero helmet and a little miniature TREK.  She couldn’t figure out how to shift and was spun out in the last hundred yards. Still, if I find something in the right price range, we’ll probably end up with it. My kid has a spoiling grandma too — –   S. Sanders

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My son does like to race but he is also very competetive — in his own right — not only for me. He "races" in every aspect of his life, schoolwork, spelling bees, even stuff that isn’t supposed to be competetive. I was the same way as a kid.

It would be interesting if we could see these two little guys five or ten years down the line: who still thinks triathlon is a blast and who may not think so. Ruth Kazez

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 I found a 24” wheeled Schwinn Cabrolet (now sold by Giant) for my 9 year old daughter for $ 150.00.  I then had the local bike shop lace up two new 650cm areo Sun rims with skinny tires and tubes for about another $140.00.  They fit fine with only minor brake adjustments. We also found some used brake levers that were 1/4 the weight of the stock ones for $15.00.  So for about $ 300.00, we’ve got her racing for a few years, plus we can always take the rims on up to her next bike.  Goodluck

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My 8 year old son just finished his first tri. He did really well for his first time — did the 5K in 24 minutes, but his bike is a Toys-R-Us piece of crap and it took him about 70 minutes to ride 10 miles. He wasn’t overtired, he just couldn’t get a lot more out of the bike, especially on the hills. Does anyone have any recommendations as to a bike for him. He’s only about 50 inches tall. I don’t want to spend a fortune on something he’ll outgrow in six months either. Thanks in advance. –

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: My 8 year old son just finished his first tri. He did really well for his : first time — did the 5K in 24 minutes, but his bike is a Toys-R-Us piece : of crap and it took him about 70 minutes to ride 10 miles. He wasn’t : overtired, he just couldn’t get a lot more out of the bike, especially on : the hills. : Does anyone have any recommendations as to a bike for him. He’s only : about 50 inches tall. I don’t want to spend a fortune on something he’ll : outgrow in six months either. : Thanks in advance. : – My son started tri-ing last year as an eight year old as well. His first race was a mountain bike duathlon. He was second last out of about 12 kids heading out on the run. I told him to save himself for the end. He came into the run/bike transition in 5th. By the end of the race he had moved up to 3rd. Wow was he happy! He rides on a piece of crap 5 speed mountain bike. He is happy with the bike since it has gears, that’s all he cares about. He does want some real bike shorts like his dad though. In his first tri, he was 11th of 12 (again) out of the outdoor pool, about 3-1/2 min behind the leader,after only a 100m swim. He passed 3 kids on the bike and another 3 on the run, to finish 5th, only 15 seconds out of 3rd place. His grandmother bought him a wetsuit (boy does she spoil him) to help his swim splits. Where is all this leading? Just another proud father? well yes and no. Of course I’m glad he did well, but how he enjoyed the racing experience is more important. I race for fun and so does he. Racing for him is a goal to look forward to and a reason for us to train together. When it comes to bikes… cheap junk is fine for 8 year olds. My son has beaten other 8 year olds with road bikes with disc wheel covers, aero bars, and fancy drinking systems. Don’t waste your money on a fancy bike unless you have tons to spare. I which case I NEED a QR kilo. The important thing is for the child to WANT to race, not to do it for their parents. If they enjoy it, they’ll keep doing it. When the equipment becomes a seriously limiting factor and the kid asks for new wheels, then get a better bike. Just my 2 cents…you asked afterall. TriDork Marcus Perry

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Question:

Get one that looks cool. Eric

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<snippage on componentry…  As far as components goes, Shimano Ultegra has a good  value for racing (although I do own mostly Dura-Ace).  I’ve heard good  things about the new Campanolo components, but there product-line now  changes as much as Shimano– so I’m not current.

Campy’s new stuff is great.  And while the lines change, measurements (ID and OD’s on chainrings, for example) are fairly constant, and unlike Shimano, parts are available although more costly.  But IMHO they last much longer.  The DA stuff is very good though; the other crap that Shimano produces…. well.  Cheaper Campy is better. Tom

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i am planning to purchase a new bike for training & racing-  30k or 40k in the spring 90k in the fall.  western PA, so some hills. I am looking for advice-    should i buy a triathlon bike or conventional road bike.  What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.  they both seem comfortable on test rides. are tri bikes for real or just a fad.  all opinions appreciated.  thanks

        Good question — I guess that depends on how much you want to spend. Except for those bikes on the edges of bikedom, most road bikes are actually pretty applicable to the task you want fulfilled.  On a 30 – 40k ride aluminum is probably the best bet — its affordable, light, and very stiff, so you won’t get much flex, and its a popular material used by a wide range of brandnames.           Next choice is 700c or 26 in size wheels.  Much as 26 inch wheels are cool as hell, they can be a pain to get spare parts for, and can be much more expensive frame- and bike sets.  So if cost is an issue, get 700c size wheels.         At this point in time, you will not have chosen a specific tri- bike or road bike set up.  This is just a standard way of choosing a bike for your distance and price range.         After this, the rest is straightforward — get a good quality bike with shimano components that FITS.  This is the most important part of buying a bike.  If it doesn’t fit, its a waste of time.  I discovered this the hard way — bought a Cannondale critirium set up — perfect for triathlon — for $300 !!         Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit worth a damn.  Its way too big.         So learn the easy way — from other people’s mistakes.  Having chosen a wheel size and a frame material, go to several bike shops, get size for a bike by someone who knows their stuff, and try out for comfort a bunch of different makes.  Good choices include Bianchi, Cannondale and Raleigh at the lower price range ($500 — $850 new) and Cannondale, Softride, Quintana Roo and Trek at the top end range.         A great compromise is the Cannondale r500 — it has a pretty tight geometry, but not so much as to be uncomftable, and you can get the bikeshop to equip it with aerobars, shifters and wheels if you so desire to give it the full tri-equip update.  Good luck, and good riding.         Matt

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i am planning to purchase a new bike for training & racing-  30k or 40k in the spring 90k in the fall.  western PA, so some hills. I am looking for advice-    should i buy a triathlon bike or conventional road bike.  What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.  they both seem comfortable on test rides. are tri bikes for real or just a fad.  all opinions appreciated.  thanks

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: Path: crash!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!pgh!ip64 Summary: should i buy a "triathlon" bike or conventional road bike X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ip64.nauticom.net Organization: Nauticom! Internet Access Provider X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 Lines: 5 i am planning to purchase a new bike for training & racing-  30k or 40k in the spring 90k in the fall.  western PA, so some hills. I am looking for advice-    should i buy a triathlon bike or conventional road bike.  What are the advantages/disadvantages of both.  they both seem comfortable on test rides. are tri bikes for real or just a fad.  all opinions appreciated.  thanks

If you train and race mostly on flat to rolling courses, I think the "tri bikes"  (forward seat angles etc.) are worth a serious look. They are more comfortable to ride in the aero position. If you’re a non-ITU triathlete, you will probably spend considerable time in that position, so this is something to consider. I’d get it with aeroshifting, too. However, I think that a light standard road bike with STI  is better for serious climbing and general riding. I use my tri bike with TTbars, Gripshift etc. , 80 percent of the time and my old road bike (retrofitted with aerobars etc) for long hilly rides. I’d look for a nice "light" frame and good solid componetry. I know weight isn’t everything, but I like to keep the complete bike’s weight at no more than about 20 pounds.

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If you train and race mostly on flat to rolling courses, I think the "tri bikes"  (forward seat angles etc.) are worth a serious look. … However, I think that a light standard road bike with STI  is better for serious climbing and general riding. I use my tri bike with TTbars, Gripshift etc. , 80 percent of the time and my old road bike (retrofitted with aerobars etc) for long hilly rides.

IMHO, switching bikes between courses is not good for the average rider. It keeps you from *learning* how to climb on your tri bike and can also prove a psychological disadvantage when you find yourself in a race on a steep grade with you tri bike. Take mtn. biking for instance.  Everything you’ve learned about climbing on the road is completely reversed.  You need to be somewhat forward to keep your front wheel on the dirt.  This is a good way to teach yourself how to climb with a forward position road bike. As to what bike to buy… If you are going to be riding in the aerobars (either recreationally or racing) a lot get a tri bike since they were designed around aerobars.  If you are going to do a lot of group/pack rides, then get a road bike.  I personally think the Al. framesets offer a good bang-for-the-buck.  My road bike, mtn. bike and tri bike are all aluminium (all by different manufacturers).  As far as components goes, Shimano Ultegra has a good value for racing (although I do own mostly Dura-Ace).  I’ve heard good things about the new Campanolo components, but there product-line now changes as much as Shimano– so I’m not current. One last bit of advice, I would get a sealed bottom bracket, sealed headset and sealed hubs on my wheels.  This makes a good portion of your bike nearly maintainence free.  Your local dealer can fill you in on this… Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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Question:

I would say a 10 hour Vineman time and a 3 hour marathon time are both a little too optimistic.  I also did a 4:39 at Mike and Rob’s last year. Don’t forget that bike course is 52, not 56 miles.  Your are trying to do double the distance at Vineman in just about double the time.  I did the half Vineman in 1993 in 5:03.  The 2 Ironman distances I did were a 12:42 in Ironman Canada in 93 and 12:35 in the Esprit Triathlon in Montreal in 94.  My point is you inevitable slow down when you double the distance. For me, It took 2 and half times as long to go from half ironman to ironman distance.  Also, a 3 hour run is even faster then most pros are able to do.  I usually average about a 7:15 pace in half ironmans and I have a marathon PR of 3:08, but my 2 ironman runs were a dismal 4:45 and 4:40.  You might be better off shooting for a 12 hour race and a 3:45 or 4 hour marathon.  The run at Vineman isn’t too tough, but It could be a hot day.  Good Luck!!!! Barry Bruckman                 Dallas, Tx

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would say a 10 hour Vineman time and a 3 hour marathon time are both a little too optimistic.  I also did a 4:39 at Mike and Rob’s last year. Don’t forget that bike course is 52, not 56 miles.  Your are trying to do double the distance at Vineman in just about double the time.  I did the half Vineman in 1993 in 5:03.  The 2 Ironman distances I did were a 12:42 in Ironman Canada in 93 and 12:35 in the Esprit Triathlon in Montreal in 94.  My point is you inevitable slow down when you double the distance. For me, It took 2 and half times as long to go from half ironman to ironman distance.  Also, a 3 hour run is even faster then most pros are able to do.  I usually average about a 7:15 pace in half ironmans and I have a marathon PR of 3:08, but my 2 ironman runs were a dismal 4:45 and 4:40.  You might be better off shooting for a 12 hour race and a 3:45 or 4 hour marathon.  The run at Vineman isn’t too tough, but It could be a hot day.  Good Luck!!!! Barry Bruckman                 Dallas, Tx

RRIIIIIIINNNGGG!!! Thanks for the wake up call. I know it sounds naive, but I really had no idea of how the times would translate. It really helps to see that we had similar times at Mike and Rob’s (I actually had 53 miles plus for the bike, despite the official measurement) and it projected to 2 1/2 times for the full ironman. I’ll keep that in mind when I get off the bike, and start plodding along on the run. My new goal is then: break a half day! Thanks, Cesar Valverde

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Question:

<<<<I find it highly unlikely that Greg would have done Worlds anyway, as the Murphy Reinschreiber stable usually eschews this event. <<<Could you expound on this for the non-pro/non-San Diego crowd?  Was the same guy that came to blows with DeSoto? <<When, where, and why did this supposedly happen?  Murphy’s the guy who put on the CBS televised TriPrix race in Oceanside several years ago and forgot the one minor detail of counting the number of laps. Didn’t help the image of the sport much when the announcers even commented about the race’s credibility or lack thereof after that minor fiasco. Notwithstanding these legendary anecdotes, Murphy Reinschreiber is best known in the triathlon community as being the (very able) agent for Newby, Welch, Pigg, Dittrich, Keller, etc.  My original post commented on the fact that the ITU has adopted a system whereby athletes of this caliber can earn nowhere near what they are used to earning, hence this agent’s (and his athletes’) non-participation, and often open hostility, of ITU races in general and championships in particular.  This is why I said that Welch’s broken clavicle (lately I’ve heard separated shoulder) likely wouldn’t be the reason he wouldn’t be at worlds. I have my differences with Murphy, but he is really a nice guy and able businessman underneath several deep layers of surface antagonism. QRman

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I find it highly unlikely that Greg would have done Worlds anyway, as the Murphy Reinschreiber stable usually eschews this event.

Could you expound on this for the non-pro/non-San Diego crowd?  Was the same guy that came to blows with DeSoto? Thanks, Pat —    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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I find it highly unlikely that Greg would have done Worlds anyway, as the Murphy Reinschreiber stable usually eschews this event.   Could you expound on this for the non-pro/non-San Diego crowd?  Was the same guy that came to blows with DeSoto?

When, where, and why did this supposedly happen? Murphy’s the guy who put on the CBS televised TriPrix race in Oceanside several years ago and forgot the one minor detail of counting the number of laps. Didn’t help the image of the sport much when the announcers even commented about the race’s credibility or lack thereof after that minor fiasco.                            _ <_         <               ___/o__    ( )/( )       /

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