Question:

        Except the distances for the Ironman was not based on any sort of science or calculation of energy expenditure.   The distances for the 3 disciplines were derived from events already on the calendar in Hawaii when those guys were arguing about who was the fittest athlete (swimmer, cyclist, runner).  They "merely" combined them.

Mmm, interesting. I thought experts had sat down and worked it out. I have read time and time again that you have to do 5 times the distance on bike than running if you want to achieve the same fitness levels (without going into fine intracacies of hills etc). However, if we say that a top runner can run 10 miles in a hour then we also know that Tour De France riders average about 25 miles in one hour. That is a ratio of 2.5:1 I’m told that a top Mountain Biker can cover a distance of 20 miles in one hour which gives a ratio of 2:1 A friend who does both disciplines can run 8 miles in a hour and Mountain Bike 16 miles in a hour. I’ve probably answered my own question now but it would be nice to get expert confirmation.

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One of the big differences between biking and running is in real world biking you rest.  The ~2:1 ratio may be good for all-out endeavors but for most people ~100 Calories per mile while running changes to between 10 to 50 Calories per mile on a bike.  5:1 sound like a good average. Palmer

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According to all the magazines it seems that you have to go five times as far on a bike to get the same benefit. The Triathlon bears this out by having 26.2 miles running to 112 miles cycling (not exactly 5 times). However, Mountain Bikes aren’t very effective on the road and are a lot harder to ride at speed than a racing bike. Even at my slow pace I’ve managed to outrun many a mountain Biker up a climb. How many miles on a Mountain Bike to one mile running?

Response:

How many miles on a Mountain Bike to one mile running?

If you’re training to run then one mile mountain biking equals zero miles running. Sylvan Smyth Victoria, BC, Canada

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According to all the magazines it seems that you have to go five times as far on a bike to get the same benefit. The Triathlon bears this out by having 26.2 miles running to 112 miles cycling (not exactly 5 times). However, Mountain Bikes aren’t very effective on the road and are a lot harder to ride at speed than a racing bike. Even at my slow pace I’ve managed to outrun many a mountain Biker up a climb.

I find that running improves my uphill cycling ability, but I’m not convinced that it necessarily works the other way around due to the impact nature of running. Having said that, riding sustained, steep off-road courses can be very hard work. The benefit of endurance exercise depends on the intensity and duration, so maintaining a similar heartbeat for a similar time should have similar effects on your heart whatever the exercise. It just so happens that on a (road)bike you will cover more distance and develop different muscles. I personally enjoy both and you certainly don’t top 50mph very often when you’re trail running! Mark.

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Let me put it in more simpler terms. Because Mountain Bikes are harder to ride than racing Bikes and if a Triathlon was decided to be raced with Mountain Bikes, how many miles would the riders be expected to ride?  (Taking into account that its normally 112 miles).

Response:

According to all the magazines it seems that you have to go five times as far on a bike to get the same benefit. The Triathlon bears this out by having 26.2 miles running to 112 miles cycling (not exactly 5 times).

        Except the distances for the Ironman was not based on any sort of science or calculation of energy expenditure.   The distances for the 3 disciplines were derived from events already on the calendar in Hawaii when those guys were arguing about who was the fittest athlete (swimmer, cyclist, runner).  They "merely" combined them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, Mountain Bikes aren’t very effective on the road and are a lot harder to ride at speed than a racing bike. Even at my slow pace I’ve managed to outrun many a mountain Biker up a climb. How many miles on a Mountain Bike to one mile running?

Response:

Depends on speed and terrain.  Walking or running uses close to a constant number of Calories per mile.  On flat ground the Calories/hour varies with the cube of the speed.  I believe 18-20 mph on a bike is about like running an eight minute mile; both use about 800 Calories per hour.  Up steep hills bikes are harder than running, you have your weight plus the bike.  One hour up Mount Washington was broken first by a runner.  Down hill a runner gains only a little but a bike can be a free ride.  Ride at 5 mph and you might burn 100 Calories/hour, while running at 12 mpm uses over 500 Calories/hour. Yesterday, while running, I passed a couple riding on a flat trail doing about 5 mph.  If you can find a flat road and maintain 18-20 mph you only need to bike about 3 times as far as you would run for the same benefits. Go up a hill and it is about even, downhill could be 100:1.  Palmer

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Question:

Here it comes. Deja vu all over again. Stephen "why don’t we all take up duathlon and get rid of the swim question" McShane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or is the swim in a 1/2IM disproportionately short?

Response:

Or is the swim in a 1/2IM disproportionately short? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wonder if this is true for almost all triathletes that do a lot of Oly distance. Oly distance is a 1.5k swim (About .9 miles), and a 1/2IM swim is 1.2 miles, so a 1/2 IM swim is only about 320 meters further than an Oly swim. The bike on the other hand is more than doubled,  and the run is almost exactly doubled. Which begs the question, is the swim in an Oly distance disproportionately large? John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

==—–

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Sleeping and eating twinkies. Charles "I guess I can get away with that at my age" Garabedian

O.K. make us feel bad, how old are you? Wendy

Response:

Is that really your idea of  the "off season"?

Actually, now that I think about it, the off season looks a lot like the on-season, except I do a little more running, a lot more cycling and a lot less swimming during the tri season.

Response:

What are your plans for the off season?

I stop running, biking, and swimming when the snow flies and train for XC ski racing in the winter!….I live on a XC ski trail here in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis) and ski 5 times/week…I race almost every weekend and usually do about 3 ski marathons…Great training!…and at 41 this program allows me to heal any running injuries and has me looking forward to the SBR thing in March…..I race Classic and Skate style and love both techniques…In the Fall I keep running and pick up roller skiing to prepare for ski season as well as some "dry land" ski workouts such as pole hiking up downhill ski hills…the change does me good!…..buy some roller skis and take up this sport! Stephen Bullard  

Response:

Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

I do strength training with weights all year.  I’ll probably do at least one marathon.  That means an increase in running.  There’s also a triathlon in Hemet, CA in December that I plan on doing.  I hope to improve my swimming over the winter – maybe a TI workshop.  My cycling will probably be limited to commuting to work a couple of days a week ( 10 miles each way ). How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season?

I’ll still do 10-15 hours of workout weekly during the winter.  The activities just change. Do you take rest days?

Sort of.  Usually a rest day means I just do one light workout.  If I start feeling burned out, I might just veg out for a day or two.  Sometimes I think I’ve had a rest day but I biked to work or played racquetball. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

No.  I might increase training for a particular race but as soon as I do that, the off-season is over. Off-season for me in SoCal just means there are triathlons to do and the rain keeps me from biking sometimes.  But I still keep a regular training schedule. Larry

Response:

Think he means that he is at work for 40+ and 60+ hours.  In another thread, Jason described his traing in the 3-5 hours a week range. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jason "plus, the training will fit my work schedule much better.  We average 40 hrs/week in the winter, 60+ hrs/week from April-July." What is your best time ever in the Olympic Distance?     Pedro "curious with the effects of so much training" Martins

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What are your plans for the off season?

lot of mountain biking.<little cyclocross added. build to a late winter marathon< maybe Myrtle Beach or Las Vegas. couple of trail running ultras. Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

Swimming, yes. I barely can stand it during the tri season, must less off-season. Biking? cut distance back. but time on bike in the woods almost equals what I do in the summer. Running? A lot more in the winter. next season goals?

I would like to do the Double Iron in Va. late next summer if I can stay healty until then.-Randy                                       Randy + Sue IMF 99!

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What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

Off season? What’s that? Seriously, after my 1/2 IM in October, I’ll be recovering for two weeks, then back into full training for my first IM in May 2000. How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season?

Usually I take a month off as a reward for a great season. After that, I resume training, but only at levels to maintain my current level of fitness. Starting in February, I pick up the intensity and duration in anticipation of my first race in April. Do you take rest days?

Always, even during full training mode. Gotta give the bod time to recover. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

Yep! Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST.

Gotta luv the internet David / FEY2K – IMCAL (remove spaces) at att dot net

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Pretty much.  Although I always begin the season with Wildflower, so my off-season prep never varies—I’m always trying to get ready to conquer one very, very difficult 1/2-IM.

Um . . . very, *very* difficult? I was planning to make Wildflower my 1st 1/2IM – is this maybe a bad idea? What’s the hardest leg? TriathRon

Response:

Um . . . very, *very* difficult? I was planning to make Wildflower my 1st 1/2IM – is this maybe a bad idea? What’s the hardest leg? TriathRon

Oh, the replies that come to mind on *that* one….LOL John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Um . . . very, *very* difficult? I was planning to make Wildflower my 1st 1/2IM – is this maybe a bad idea?

No worse than getting into this sport in the first place.  It’s not a bad idea but an ambitious undertaking.  WF was my first IM/2 and it sure feels good to finish it.  I’ll be back to try it again. What’s the hardest leg?

Probably not the swim.   I’m not a swimmer and I enjoyed this one. Once you get out of the water, you spend the rest of the day in rolling hills.  The bike has major hills at the beginning and towards the end with a long flat stretch in between.  You need good climbing skills. The run is mostly on trails and very hilly.  It’s damn tough.  Wears me out just writing about it. The whole thing is really neat, though.  I camped and spent 3 1/2 days there.  It’s a beautiful setting.  It’s too bad that the IM slots got pulled because it was neat to see all the pros getting theirs.  Hopefully the purse will be big enough to bring them back but as I remember, it didn’t pay much. Go ahead, you’ll be glad you did. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TriathRon

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What’s the hardest leg? Probably not the swim.   I’m not a swimmer and I enjoyed this one. Larry TriathRon

I wonder if this is true for almost all triathletes that do a lot of Oly distance. Oly distance is a 1.5k swim (About .9 miles), and a 1/2IM swim is 1.2 miles, so a 1/2 IM swim is only about 320 meters further than an Oly swim. The bike on the other hand is more than doubled,  and the run is almost exactly doubled. Which begs the question, is the swim in an Oly distance disproportionately large? John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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I missed the original post, someone tell me he’s talking about his work week 40-60 and not his training! Simon Lessing gets by on 20-25 hrs training. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jason "plus, the training will fit my work schedule much better.  We average 40 hrs/week in the winter, 60+ hrs/week from April-July." What is your best time ever in the Olympic Distance?    Pedro "curious with the effects of so much training" Martins

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2:48 marathon, sub-16 5K

Am I the only one who’s awestruck by this?  Wow!

Response:

Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

Eating like a pig, working on the house, letting the belt out a notch (oops, that was last winter). This winter, I plan to swim with the masters, snowshoe (if and when we have snow), ski, and run when in the appropriate places and conditions. I will probably not mountain bike (don’t want a repeat of last year’s frostbite), but the occasional road ride is on the list. I will do it all according to no plan at all, but try to do enough to maintain this year’s base. How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season?

I can’t cut it down *that* much, or I wouldn’t be working out at all. Do you take rest days?

Heh, heh. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

They do for me. Next year, I plan to do a half-IM in June (Blackwater), so I’ll be spending relatively more time on the bike than I’ve spent this year. That will start as soon as the Marine Corp Marathon is over. A century ride in the Fall sounds about right. I’ll run enough to keep my base, and work more on cycling to build that back up. A couple of rides a week ought to do it. The point for me is to keep fit without the grind. The mind has to have a break, too. That’s why I probably won’t lift weights, unless my girlfriend and I do it toghether (as well we might). It has to be diverting and non-serious, or I start next year’s heavy training already mentally behind. Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

Oh, you want to get fast. Rick "Sorry to have wasted your time" Denney

Response:

Sleeping and eating twinkies. Charles "I guess I can get away with that at my age" Garabedian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running? How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season? Do you take rest days? Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season? Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

Response:

For me… who is at the opposite end of the season to you NH guys… the "off" season is simply a chance to train for an IM race somewhere on the other side of the world… like Canada… you can train your butt off… enjoy miserable weather… and not even have to worry about any of those pesky race things interrupting you… oh boy, what fun… still, the trip makes up for it all. — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running? How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season? Do you take rest days? Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season? Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

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Jason "plus, the training will fit my work schedule much better.  We average 40 hrs/week in the winter, 60+ hrs/week from April-July."

What is your best time ever in the Olympic Distance?     Pedro "curious with the effects of so much training" Martins

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My swim-team meets 4 times a week.  I’m going to try and make a bigger effort to make all the workouts. As for running, I’m lucky enough to be able to run 5 miles at lunch every day. Cycling is the tough one for me.  I am hoping to at least try to maintain something close to what I’ve gained by spinning an hour or two, three times a week.

Is that really your idea of  the "off season"? Mine looks like: 2 swims training with my Tri club. 1 run every….. let’s say 2 weeks. 1 bike promenade on sunday morning when I the weather is good and I can get out of my bed. This is from october to the end of december. Serious training restart in January. Nicolas.

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I am a major lurker, who wakes up every morning and first thing reads rec.sport.triathlon, and this is for me one of the most valuable threads I have read. Keep um comming! Thanks, Ken Mc

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I am a major lurker, who wakes up every morning and first thing reads rec.sport.triathlon, and this is for me one of the most valuable threads I have read. Keep um comming! Thanks, Ken Mc

I will take credit for this somewhat selfish post. I for one am planning on saving this one. Wendy "love the variety of philosophies!" in St. Pete Beach

Response:

Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running? How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season? Do you take rest days? Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season? Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

Response:

M&Ms and a new tattoo. David "We’ll deal with  your mental aberrations later."  Barnabas Collins, "Dark Shadows" http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8374

Response:

Hi Wendy, Here’s my input on your questions. Hope it’s helpful. What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races?

I guess by "off-season" you mean tri season. Being from a primarily running background, I tend to race year-round (even here in Ohio). I hate the heat and don’t take racing seriously until September as the tri season winds down. Then it’s time for the fall/winter schedule of road races. Virtually all of my PRs have come in the fall/winter (5m, 10K, 10m, 1/2M, and M). The exception that proves the rule is a 5K PR in August (??). For tri/du-specific training, I hit the weights (3 days a week, 10 different areas, about 90 minutes per session), and this year will spend more time on biking hills and intervals (on a CompuTrainer) to increase my strength base. During tri season, weights drop to once a week for maintenance and any other strength training is eliminated and replaced with racing. Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

My running will pick up. Biking will drop off, but intensity will increase. Swimming will be 3 days/week. Two days being drills, one endurance. How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to

during season? About the same, maybe a bit more (14-18 hours/week "on" season, 16-22 hours/week "off" season). But that includes the weight training. That might be different from other opinions you’ve gotten, but during racing season, the days before and after a race are essentially nothing as far as training goes, thus reducing the hours. Two days before a race will just be easy stuff, so a race wipes out about 4 days every two weeks. Do you take rest days?

Seems to work out to be 3 completely "off" days every two weeks. There may be some things like an easy/recovery day where necessary. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

This year it will. You may not recall, but I had a 1:11 swim at GCT and ended up cramping badly in the last four miles of the run and finished with a 6:23. For tri’s, I tried to listen to what works for everyone else, instead of what has always worked for me in running. I’ve always been a good runner (2:48 marathon, sub-16 5K), but trained for tri’s differently. This year, I’m going to apply everything that has always worked for me in running (more intense middle-distance, with one long day/week, take days off instead of doing "garbage" days just to say I’ve trained), and see what happens. This year’s longer stuff looks like: Powerman Alabama Di Gulf Coast 1/2IM Tri Springfield Ironhorse Du {either} Muncie 1/2IM / Tupper Lake 1/2IM / Blackwater Eagleman 1/2IM volunteer at IMUSA 2000 Interspersed in there will be a couple of 30Ks and 1/2marathons. I can’t advise that what works for me will work for you, but the more information you have from everyone, the better decision you can make for yourself. Above all, do what feels right to YOU. I’ve learned that you just can’t plug yourself into someone else’s training equation. Good Luck! Rob Robertson

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Question:

http://www.triathlon.org.au/articles/1999tour.htm This is the St. George Tour page — but it’s not posted yet. Pretty sure Mooloolaba is run by USM The same people who do Noosa. Ask ‘em where they put it… — MB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know where I can find results from The Aussie Titles in Mooloolaba last weekend. Thanks AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales —– Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm

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They’re supposed to be on the USM Site at: http://www.noosatri.com.au but so far they haven’t delivered !! USM have just suggested I try again this afternoon !

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know where I can find results from The Aussie Titles in Mooloolaba last weekend. Thanks AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm

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They’re there now – just the overall times/positions but no splits which is a little disappointing. d

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re supposed to be on the USM Site at: http://www.noosatri.com.au but so far they haven’t delivered !! USM have just suggested I try again this afternoon ! Anybody know where I can find results from The Aussie Titles in Mooloolaba last weekend. Thanks AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm

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David Stanton  says… They’re there now – just the overall times/positions but no splits which is a little disappointing. d

The splits are there now but not in the the .RTF file.  They’re in text format which needs some work which I’ve already done some of for the individual results so if you want a copy you can get it from the Illawarra Triathlon Club Web site. http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/individuals2.txt You’ll find that USM have truncated the final times so you may need to use both the .RFT and the text file to get the final times but the splits seem to be correct. AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm    

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Anybody know where I can find results from The Aussie Titles in Mooloolaba last weekend. Thanks AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm    

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Question:

Anyone doing the Crooked Creek Triathlon this Saturday in Ford Ciy, PA? Dave Graham

Response:

Goin’ to Skylands in New Jersey.  It used to be a local race when I started in tri’s. Gives me a chance to visit my Mom, too. Mick O. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone doing the Crooked Creek Triathlon this Saturday in Ford Ciy, PA? Dave Graham

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Question:

It was on the front page even! Probably cuz Mrs. T’s is next weekend. If you have on-line access you might want to check this out. It’s a good news/bad news article…"obsession or inspiration" sort of thing.   Mark

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I thought it was mostly positive.  How many times did they use the phrase Typa A, though?  Pretty light on the "obsessive kooks who spend $3k on a bike to run around in their Speedos" stuff.     Better PR than our s[port has gotten this year(at least here in Illlinois). Scott Hoffman

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Seems to me that the death at Mrs. T’s two years ago and the leptospirosis event this year at Ironhorse consist of the only other real publicity triathlon has gotten in the Chicago area in recent years. I’ll take "type A" any time over the above! –Lee (Tri-hard)

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Question:

I am looking/needing to buy a full suit for the Escape From Alcatraz triathlon.  I would like to know what everyone thinks are the best or favorite suits.  Please e-mail me directly with your thoughts.  Thanks in advance. Dave Kother Linden, NJ

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I am looking/needing to buy a full suit for the Escape From Alcatraz triathlon.  I would like to know what everyone thinks are the best or favorite suits.

Dave, ‘Tis hard to beat Quintana Roo for quality, price, reliability, and follow-up service. Good luck. Bob Williams

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Question:

Robin – I’d be very interested in hearing about how your bottle carrier works out; I’ve tried several different bottle carriers searching for something comfortable.  Please post a report after you’ve tried it! Good luck in your training… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found a local store who ordered a swedish product for me. It’s a belt with four small bottles attached to it. The bottles contain about 150-200ml and are to be opened easily with your teeth. I’ll get them the next week and will report how comfortable it is to carry them (if anyone is interested).

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I know I’ve seen this before on this newsgroup but can’t remember the equations. Can anyone suggest what the equivalent mileage is to equate cycling to running. Recent injury has caused me to cut back to every other day running and want to keep up and still develop my fitness. Thanks. J. Evans

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If aerobic fitness is your goal, its not a matter of distance as it is a matter of continuing to exersize at your target heart rate. Generally speaking, if your target heart rate is 160 to 180 bpm, you would run, bike or walk until you achieve that rate and then try to maintain that rate for some period of time. As I said, if fitness is your goal keeping this heart rate going for 20 minutes is about all you need 3 or 4 times a week. The actual health benifits of working out beyond this limit are questionable. I run and bike. My running is split up between 3 and 5 mile routes 3 or 4 times a week. Generally my bike trips are between 12 and 15 miles with an occasional 20 or 25 mile ride.

: I know I’ve seen this before on this newsgroup but can’t remember the : equations. Can anyone suggest what the equivalent mileage is to equate : cycling to running. Recent injury has caused me to cut back to every : other day running and want to keep up and still develop my fitness. : Thanks. : J. Evans — Bob S Assuming I’ve managed to muck up my email address       email replys to jondrew at ao.net hopefully you can figgure out how to assemble my            correct email address

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most books I have seen say the ratio is 4to 1 in favor of the bike, that is to say 4mi on bike = 1 on foot. Terry Garrett

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I know I’ve seen this before on this newsgroup but can’t remember the equations. Can anyone suggest what the equivalent mileage is to equate cycling to running. Recent injury has caused me to cut back to every other day running and want to keep up and still develop my fitness. Thanks. J. Evans

The olympic triathlon stages are supposed to be equivalents I think so 10k run = 40k bike = 1.5k swim. Of course, this probably assumes you are equally trained in each discipline. On-On Regards, Barry. — /tmp: /usr/mail/.signature too large: no more space on device

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Dr. Cooper from the Aerobic Center in Texas states it as 5 bike miles to 1 foot mile.

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Dr. Cooper from the Aerobic Center in Texas states it as 5 bike miles to 1 foot mile.

I don’t do much running, but when I do 10mile cycle time-trials at a heart rate of around 180bpm (Max = 200), I can get round in about 23 minutes. This would correspond to me doing a 11 min 30 sec mile. This certainly doesn’t relate. The countries top cyclists can do 10 miles in about 20 mins, which would make their foot mile times to be 10 minute miles. Therefore, surely 2.5 bike miles equals 1 foot mile? Confused, Mark. — Mark Pearson.                                Magellan IN-TA Development. Software Design Engineer.                    Dept. HF83, Building T4-E. Tel: +44 (0)1279 405688                      London Road, ESN: 6-742-5688                              Harlow, Essex. FAX: +44 (0)1279 441589                      CM17 9NA. United Kingdom.

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Dr. Cooper from the Aerobic Center in Texas states it as 5 bike miles to 1 foot mile.

5:1! No way. That’s really taking it easy on the bike. I don’t do much running, but when I do 10mile cycle time-trials at a heart rate of around 180bpm (Max = 200), I can get round in about 23 minutes.

Not too shabby! This would correspond to me doing a 11 min 30 sec mile. This certainly doesn’t relate. The countries top cyclists can do 10 miles in about 20 mins, which would make their foot mile times to be 10 minute miles. Therefore, surely 2.5 bike miles equals 1 foot mile? Confused,

My cycling days are behind me, but here’s my $0.02. I believe the confusion comes from just relating times. From an aerobic standpoint, you’re correct, your heart can pound just as hard cycling as running. But the stress on the skeletal muscles is much higher running. After all, you *are* sitting down when your riding. My cycling 40K PR is 55:12. In the grand scheme of things that’s a bit better than my running 10K PR of 39:30, but both efforts correspond to someone who’s good but not great. My personal experience is that the 40K TT on the bike leaves me feeling about the same as a 10K run. However, I do recover quicker from the bike ride. An all out 10K run will leave me flat for 3-4 days, whereas I could ride the 40K TT at cycling nationals and then do the road race 2 days later without too much trouble (from a recovery standpoint — I still got my ass kicked.) I’ve only done a few marathons, but there’s no question that they are *way* harder than a 100 mile race. Even with a few mountains, I can still race the next day (although I’ll be pretty whipped). There is simply no way you can race the day after running a PR marathon. Even walking around is a challenge. However, that’s racing. The original post was talking about training. When I was serious about cycling (and didn’t mind not having a job) I’d train 400 miles per week. This was (and still is) normal for someone going to nats. Track riders typically do quite a bit less (around 250/week.) That corresponds with serious marathoners doing 100 mile weeks and milers doing 50-60. Most of the mid-pack cat III (working class racers – for those who don’t know the USCF categories) riders I know ride around 150-200 miles per week (although they will always tell you it’s more.) Most mid-level competitive runners are doing between 30 and 50. I think the 4:1 rule holds up pretty well for training. Eric Buckley Comsys Millenium Services eMail: remove NoSpam from above Standard disclaimer – I speak for myself and nobody else.

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Dr. Cooper from the Aerobic Center in Texas states it as 5 bike miles to 1 foot mile. 5:1! No way. That’s really taking it easy on the bike.

I use a 4:1 distance conversion factor and a 2:1 time conversion factor. If I run M miles in T time then a roughly equivalent road cycling workout for me is 4M miles in 2T time. I don’t do much running, but when I do 10mile cycle time-trials at a heart rate of around 180bpm (Max = 200), I can get round in about 23 minutes. Not too shabby! This would correspond to me doing a 11 min 30 sec mile. This certainly doesn’t relate. The countries top cyclists can do 10 miles in about 20 mins, which would make their foot mile times to be 10 minute miles.

Using my 4:1 formula this comes out to 2.5 miles in 10 minutes. Which are 4 minute miles. Which is beyond world record pace. Obviously my formula isn’t golden but it works for me in the rough sense. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Therefore, surely 2.5 bike miles equals 1 foot mile? Confused, My cycling days are behind me, but here’s my $0.02. I believe the confusion comes from just relating times. From an aerobic standpoint, you’re correct, your heart can pound just as hard cycling as running. But the stress on the skeletal muscles is much higher running. After all, you *are* sitting down when your riding. My cycling 40K PR is 55:12. In the grand scheme of things that’s a bit better than my running 10K PR of 39:30, but both efforts correspond to someone who’s good but not great. My personal experience is that the 40K TT on the bike leaves me feeling about the same as a 10K run. However, I do recover quicker from the bike ride. An all out 10K run will leave me flat for 3-4 days, whereas I could ride the 40K TT at cycling nationals and then do the road race 2 days later without too much trouble (from a recovery standpoint — I still got my ass kicked.)

I’m not as fast as you are but my numbers are reversed. My best 10 K is 40:30 and my best 25 mile TT is 1:09:00. And I felt worse after the cycling. But during normal runs and rides, I may typically run 6 miles in 42 minutes with a 24 mile ride taking me about 1:15:00 (75 minutes). And here the cycling is easier.                                    Bob Palermo z

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dr. Cooper from the Aerobic Center in Texas states it as 5 bike miles to 1 foot mile. 5:1! No way. That’s really taking it easy on the bike. I use a 4:1 distance conversion factor and a 2:1 time conversion factor. If I run M miles in T time then a roughly equivalent road cycling workout for me is 4M miles in 2T time.

I look at it in terms of calories burned.  One mile of running uses around 100 kcals.  One mile of cycling uses around 40 – 60 kcals.  This puts the ratio at close to 2:1. I got the 40-60 kcals / mile for cycling from a couple sources, including Lamb’s book "Physiology of Exercise". Obviously it depends quite a bit on how fast you go (unlike running), how hilly the course is, how windy it is, and so forth.  Lamb cites a value of 3.18 kcal/hr/lb for 10 mph cycling which works out to 48 kcal per mile for a 150 lb person.  Persumably this is for no hills or wind, and 10 mph is pretty easy. I prefer running as a sport, but use cycling for weight control.  I find it much easier to burn up calories cycling than running.  A 40 mile bike ride is pretty easy, whereas the equivalent calorie burn in a 20 mile run is excruciating, if not impossible. Bill Martin                 |   When Winds go round and round in Bands- Ukiah, CA                   |   And Birds take places, overhead,                             |   To bear them Orchestra. –Dickinson

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If possible try and run through a park or around a golf course where water fountains or dispensers may be available to you.  Some parks have maps showing accessories, or here in Indiana some state or city parks have park attendace or Rangers that can help you locate water supplies during you run. David/IndyRunr

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[...] : Positioning bottles along the route isn’t particularly convenient or : safe where I run, so I carry it with me.  For very long runs, I have a : lumbar pack which is worn around the waist.  The main body of the : pack can be used for rain gear, energy bars, etc.  At either side are : two bottle holders, suitable for 500 ml bottles.  On longish runs, I : use a smaller pack and put a single bottle inside. : You can get bottles shaped specially for easy carrying – see : http://www.runaid.demon.co.uk/ for details. [...] Thanks for all those infos. I guess I have to get used to carry some water around with me on the next long run. The runaid web page looks promising.                 Robin                 cand. Ing.                                     /                 Robin Breyl                                   /                                                  __   _   __  /                                                 __| ___/ |__/   WWW:             wwwfb12.ikb.uni-essen.de/~breyl   PGP Key availiable on request.

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: Sometimes I run on a 10 Km trail loop in the woods, and stash (hide) : some water bottles near the starting point. If the weather is warm, : then one of the bottles will have Gatorade (or equivalent). I also : chill them well before-hand, if possible. I just found a local store who ordered a swedish product for me. It’s a belt with four small bottles attached to it. The bottles contain about 150-200ml and are to be opened easily with your teeth. I’ll get them the next week and will report how comfortable it is to carry them (if anyone is interested). : Relax your face too, and run upright, with your hips in line with your : shoulders. Look ahead about 60 meters. This helps me to run relaxed. I will try this. Is there a "perfect" position for the arms? Should the lower arms be horizontal? I guess it depends… : Herzliche Glueckwuensche fuer Ihren ersten Marathon, von wir allen! : (I hope my German makes sense.) It does! Thanks very much. I hope my english is understandable too. I just got my entry papers for the marathon today! I guess there is no turning back now!                 Robin                 cand. Ing.                                     /                 Robin Breyl                                   /                                                  __   _   __  /                                                 __| ___/ |__/   WWW:             wwwfb12.ikb.uni-essen.de/~breyl   PGP Key availiable on request.

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Hello, I just returned from my first 30 Km run. It took me 2 hours and 41 mins to complete it and I developed some questions during this time: 1.) I ran without any water supply and I think it would be better to     go next time with some water. But how is the best way to carry     any kind of drink? Hold a bottle in my hand all the time? What     are the alternatives? Positioning bottles on the way and hope that     nobody will take them away? What should I drink anyway? Plain     water? A mix of apple juice and water? What else?

Personally, I think that carrying some type of drink would be a good idea for a 2+ hour run.  I know that several companies make belt-type carriers that hold one or two bottles (and maybe some gel or something) around your waist.  WHAT you drink is mostly personal preferance. 3.) During the final 30 minutes I noticed severe pain and muscle hardening     in my shoulders and neck. Is there any way to keep your arms relaxed?

I don’t normally run that far (10K, normally), but I just concentrate on relaxing my whole body, starting with my face and working down.  It takes some time to be able to do this, but it works for me! 5.) How long should I rest after a run like this? One day? Two? Or should     I be up and running right on the next day?

NO, I definitely think that running the next day would be bad!  If you do run the next day, take it easy.  Of course, this could vary with your fitness level (if I ran 30K, I’d need about a week off!!  ;-)  ). Hope this helps! Matt

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: 1.) I ran without any water supply and I think it would be better to :     go next time with some water. But how is the best way to carry :     any kind of drink? Hold a bottle in my hand all the time? What :     are the alternatives? Positioning bottles on the way and hope that :     nobody will take them away? What should I drink anyway? Plain :     water? A mix of apple juice and water? What else? You risk serious problems if you don’t take fluids during your run! Positioning bottles along the route isn’t particularly convenient or safe where I run, so I carry it with me.  For very long runs, I have a lumbar pack which is worn around the waist.  The main body of the pack can be used for rain gear, energy bars, etc.  At either side are two bottle holders, suitable for 500 ml bottles.  On longish runs, I use a smaller pack and put a single bottle inside. You can get bottles shaped specially for easy carrying – see http://www.runaid.demon.co.uk/ for details. : 2.) How much should I drink during such a long run? 0.2 liter every :     5Km? More? Less? I drink about 150 ml every 15 mins or so.  The important thing is to not wait until you feel thirsty before drinking! : 3.) During the final 30 minutes I noticed severe pain and muscle hardening :     in my shoulders and neck. Is there any way to keep your arms relaxed? I’ve had similar (though milder) symptoms.  I’m wondering whether there are any stretches that might help? : 5.) How long should I rest after a run like this? One day? Two? Or should :     I be up and running right on the next day? I’ve only done 30K a couple of times.  On both occasions, I felt too sore to be up and running the next day, but was able to do a short, slow run the day after.  I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules for this – you have to listen to what your body tells you.  It is probably best to err on the side of caution, to avoid the possibility of injury. : If all goes well I plan to run my first marathon in October (exactly on my : 30st birthday a marathon will take place in the city where I live). Good luck with this! Nick

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I just returned from my first 30 Km run. It took me 2 hours and 41 mins to complete it and I developed some questions during this time: 1.) I ran without any water supply and I think it would be better to    go next time with some water. But how is the best way to carry    any kind of drink? Hold a bottle in my hand all the time? What    are the alternatives? Positioning bottles on the way and hope that    nobody will take them away? What should I drink anyway? Plain    water? A mix of apple juice and water? What else?

Sometimes I run on a 10 Km trail loop in the woods, and stash (hide) some water bottles near the starting point. If the weather is warm, then one of the bottles will have Gatorade (or equivalent). I also chill them well before-hand, if possible. 2.) How much should I drink during such a long run? 0.2 liter every    5Km? More? Less?

It’s your choice. I think I usually drink .25 l per 10 Km, but more if it’s warm. 3.) During the final 30 minutes I noticed severe pain and muscle hardening    in my shoulders and neck. Is there any way to keep your arms relaxed?

Relax your face too, and run upright, with your hips in line with your shoulders. Look ahead about 60 meters. This helps me to run relaxed. 4.) I ran with a heart rate monitor at a nearly constant heart rate of    158 bpm. (Maximum HR: 200, Minimum at or below 50 bpm). During the final    10 minutes the heart rate dropped notably about 10 bpm to 148-150.    But I dind’t had the feeling, that I was becoming slower…    What happened? Was I just tired and ran slower without noticing?    Was this a first indication of the point where my body had burned    all of it’s kohlenhydrate (I don’t know the english word for this. What    I mean is the stuff, that’s in pasta and rice. The stuff your body    burns before he switches to fat burning – carbonhydrate???)?

Your body is burning fat and carbohydrate during the entire run, but the percentage of fat burned increases with the time. If you burn all your body’s carbohydrate, it becomes quite difficult to continue running. I think you would surely notice this — it is called "hitting the wall". No idea how it affects the heart rate, although it happened to me at mile 22 in the Chicago Marathon one year! 5.) How long should I rest after a run like this? One day? Two? Or should    I be up and running right on the next day?

Depends on how you feel. If you’re too tired to run, then rest is good, but a nice _slow_ run can also help one to recover. Also, it depends upon how unusual this run was for you. Most runners will increase the distance of their long run by no more than 2 miles (3 Km) every two weeks. But if your previous maximum was 20 Km, then perhaps you should rest until you feel like running again! Herzliche Glueckwuensche fuer Ihren ersten Marathon, von wir allen! (I hope my German makes sense.) Mark Sandrock — UIUC Library Systems Office     "Become the change you wish to see Network Analyst                  in the world." –Mohandas Gandhi

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Hello, I just returned from my first 30 Km run. It took me 2 hours and 41 mins to complete it and I developed some questions during this time: 1.) I ran without any water supply and I think it would be better to     go next time with some water. But how is the best way to carry     any kind of drink? Hold a bottle in my hand all the time? What     are the alternatives? Positioning bottles on the way and hope that     nobody will take them away? What should I drink anyway? Plain     water? A mix of apple juice and water? What else? 2.) How much should I drink during such a long run? 0.2 liter every     5Km? More? Less? 3.) During the final 30 minutes I noticed severe pain and muscle hardening     in my shoulders and neck. Is there any way to keep your arms relaxed? 4.) I ran with a heart rate monitor at a nearly constant heart rate of     158 bpm. (Maximum HR: 200, Minimum at or below 50 bpm). During the final     10 minutes the heart rate dropped notably about 10 bpm to 148-150.     But I dind’t had the feeling, that I was becoming slower…     What happened? Was I just tired and ran slower without noticing?     Was this a first indication of the point where my body had burned     all of it’s kohlenhydrate (I don’t know the english word for this. What     I mean is the stuff, that’s in pasta and rice. The stuff your body     burns before he switches to fat burning – carbonhydrate???)? 5.) How long should I rest after a run like this? One day? Two? Or should     I be up and running right on the next day? I hope someone knows the (or at least some) answers… Sorry, if these are silly questions, but I’m quite new to runs of this duration. The last two years I ran distances between 4 and 10 Km with about 20-30Km per week. In the last weeks I extended my running to runs up to 20Km length and about 50Km every week. Right now I’m running 50-70Km every week. If all goes well I plan to run my first marathon in October (exactly on my 30st birthday a marathon will take place in the city where I live). Thanks in advance.                 Robin                 cand. Ing.                                     /                 Robin Breyl                                   /                                                  __   _   __  /                                                 __| ___/ |__/   WWW:             wwwfb12.ikb.uni-essen.de/~breyl   PGP Key availiable on request.

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Question:

I CURRENTLY USE LOOK PEDALS.  ARE SPEEDPLAYS WORTH THE CHANGE AND THE MONEY? IF SO, DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO HAS THE BEST DEAL ON THEM OR DO YOU HAVE THEM FOR SALE?  IF SO, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! THANKS FOR THE HELP-NIK

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I switched about a month ago.  Speedplays are much easier to get in and out of, so you won’t have those "timber" experiences your first time.   They are also much lighter, and the rotating head doesn’t need to be on any particular side. This makes a huge difference, especially on steep grades-when you want to get in and out.  Although I don’t have knee problems, I have seen posts in the past that over time, Look pedals aggravate and cause damage to some people’s knees. I think they are worth it, I kept my Looks on what is now my beater bike, and that is on the trainer.  You can interchange the two with an adaptor. My bike shop changed my pedals and let me demo them, I was allowed to take them for a week, but I was convinced after  a 10 minute ride around the shop. Find a shop that will make similar arrangements, only you can decide if it works for you. Regards, Lee Rudin SF Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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In response to your question:  I used to use look pedals too.  I just put together a new bike and got a pair of speedplays.  The weight difference is incredible.  At first I thought I wasn’t going to like them because of the floatation.  I just got them after the World Championships but I am already used to the floatation.  I like them a lot better now since I have ridden on them.  I hope I helped you out. David K. $cott

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Question:

: I think you meant to say "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow" Being the engineering geek that I am, plus I got an A in physics, you .can’t really use "speed velocity" as the same thing.  Speed is the magnitude of velocity, which is a vectored quantity.  Therefore, the average flight speed would be answered with a mph unit, while the velocity would be labeled with a mph-direction unit.  Makes perfect sense, eh? Michael Holm

Michael, you need to watch more Monty Python…..   ; )      TriGal

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I’m glad somebody finally mentioned MP! Dr. Todd N. Kenyon Key Biscayne, FL

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: Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? : ed

It depends on what I am swallowing! T.J. T.J. Fry                  : "It takes a big man to cry, but Clemson University        : that man".-DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handy Men’s varsity swimming    :

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: I think you meant to say "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow" "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow flying at  its maximum attainable % of VO2 max following a short session in a mild hyperbaric oxygen chamber with all the necessary adjustments having been made." sss

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"air speed velocity of an unladen swallow flying at  its maximum attainable % of VO2 max following a short session in a mild hyperbaric oxygen chamber with all the necessary adjustments having been made."

What percentage of the unladen swallow’s diet was worms?   Ruth Kazez

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: I think you meant to say "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow" "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow flying at  its maximum attainable % of VO2 max following a short session in a mild hyperbaric oxygen chamber with all the necessary adjustments having been made."

African or European swallow? Bruce Platt

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: I think you meant to say "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow"

Being the engineering geek that I am, plus I got an A in physics, you can’t really use "speed velocity" as the same thing.  Speed is the magnitude of velocity, which is a vectored quantity.  Therefore, the average flight speed would be answered with a mph unit, while the velocity would be labeled with a mph-direction unit.  Makes perfect sense, eh? Michael Holm (overheard)"I don’t overtrain Rachel, it’s normal to have all your joints go when you’re 22!"

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"air speed velocity of an unladen swallow flying at  its maximum attainable % of VO2 max following a short session in a mild hyperbaric oxygen chamber with all the necessary adjustments having been made." What percentage of the unladen swallow’s diet was worms?  

                                                   ^^^^^ Were they the 40-30-30 type ??? -Rolf — Rolf Arands, Ph.D.          |                             |

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: Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? : ed : Ed European or African??? Tom Roehr

Unladen European, of course! Ed

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Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? ed Ed

African or European???  And what the heck does this have to do with   triathlons???   —   Marty Miller (aka The Noodle) Proprietor of "The Triathlete’s Web" http://iac.net/~miller/triathlon-home.html

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: Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? : ed : Ed

is it wearing an aero helmet? or are the wings carbon fiber composite? T.J. T.J. Fry                  : "It takes a big man to cry, but Clemson University        : that man".-DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handy Men’s varsity swimming    :

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I think you meant to say "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow" Dr. Todd N. Kenyon Key Biscayne, FL

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: Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? : ed : Ed

african or european? JF

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I think you meant to say "air speed velocity of an unladen swallow" Dr. Todd N. Kenyon Key Biscayne, FL

Putting the GEEK back in Tri-Geek.  I love it.   Now don’t you think Mike Pigg looks just like Jean-Luc Picard? joe jankovsky

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Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? ed Ed

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Flight speed of a swallow?  Ed, either you’ve mis-posted or you’re looking to take your new Control Tech seat post out for some test intervals on your local golf course, where the swallows are really rippin’ this time of year. Just ribbing you, buddy.  Lots of folks have the Control Tech stem turned around, and it is very stable. -Mike

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: Can someone tell me what the average flight speed of a swallow is? : ed : Ed European or African??? Tom Roehr

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Question:

Are there any marathons in the Chicago area (4-5 hrs radius) during the first to middle parts of June 95?

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: Are there any marathons in the Chicago area (4-5 hrs radius) during the : first to middle parts of June 95? Isn’t there usually a marathon in South Bend, Indiana at about that time? Has anyone run it?  I seem to recall it ends up in the Notre Dame football stadium.

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: Isn’t there usually a marathon in South Bend, Indiana at about that time? : Has anyone run it?  I seem to recall it ends up in the Notre Dame : football stadium. I found out it’s been cancelled.  They are still running a 10k and 5k and Fun Walk this year.  But, unlike prior years, no marathon and no triathlon. Saturday, June 10.  For info, 219-674-0900 then press 6262

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