Question:

something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   — I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there.

I have, and I’ve seen no difference from salt water with regard to the effects of wave action.

Response:

I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there. I do almost all of my open water swimming in Lake Champlain

Which is much deeper.  Wave action is the same salt or fresh, but depth is a factor.

Response:

Why not postpone the race a day? I understand volunteer support would be difficult but if I were a competitor that had already spent many months training and paid the high entry fee, I know I’d have stuck around another day to do the whole thing. Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you haven’t seen on ironmanlive.com, IM Utah has been changed to a duathlon this morning. Apparently the winds kicked up to 25-30 mph this morning and Utah Lake became Utah ocean with swells up to 3 feet. Swimmers were carried off course, for those who even attempted to swim it. Lifeguard boats were even being capsized. The swim was called off and boats brought in all the remaining swimmers. Apparently some pro’s did make the entire swim. An athletes meeting was held and it was decided the race would be changed to a duathlon with a bike of 60-65 miles and a run of 13.1 miles. Beginning at 10 a.m. the pro waves would start off in 15 sec intervals (women going first) and then the age groupers would go off in 3 sec intervals. It was expected to take about 90 mins to get everyone going. check out www.ironmanlive.com and click on the utah banner for more updates. There have got to be some bummed athletes out there today, that’s for sure.

Response:

Apart from the problems with volunteers, permits, etc. in postponing the race a day, as a Utah resident I have to point out that Provo rolls up its sidewalks on Sundays…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not postpone the race a day? I understand volunteer support would be difficult but if I were a competitor that had already spent many months training and paid the high entry fee, I know I’d have stuck around another day to do the whole thing. Dan

Response:

Also, besides the buoyency of salt water, Alcatraz swim happens when there are favorable tide conditions.  No such conditions exist in a lake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Utah lake is a very shallow lake. When the wind blows it create waves very close together. It is much different than an ocean swell. Also most boats on the lake are very small and are made for calm recreational use. I had a message from a friend racing in Provo who said three feet number was way low.  The other thing is that the swells were coming one right after and almost on top of one another, more like a washing machine than ocean swells.  It was definitely nothing like Alcatraz, but rather much worse. From a pro’s perspective, Petr Vabrousek has his RR up on xtri.com where he mentions surfing back in. clm in sf Hadn’t thought about that! I was wondering the same thing about 3 foot swell being a big deal, but I guess they would be on a 2.4 mile freshwater swim. thanks for posting Ken.  boats is something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   — I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was  fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt  water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made  a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent  when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in  rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there. — cathy morgan san francisco, ca

Response:

I wonder if it would be feasible to have a triathlon swim in the Great Salt Lake, or some arm of it.  You’d get plenty of buoyency.  The downside is those who tend to ingest very much water as they swim would end up OD’ing on salt and whatever pollution is in the lake, thus the length of the swim might have to be limited for health reasons.  This might be a swim where you’d actually want to carry a water bottle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Also, besides the buoyency of salt water, Alcatraz swim happens when there are favorable tide conditions.  No such conditions exist in a lake. Utah lake is a very shallow lake. When the wind blows it create waves very close together. It is much different than an ocean swell. Also most boats on the lake are very small and are made for calm recreational use. I had a message from a friend racing in Provo who said three feet number was way low.  The other thing is that the swells were coming one right after and almost on top of one another, more like a washing machine than ocean swells.  It was definitely nothing like Alcatraz, but rather much worse. From a pro’s perspective, Petr Vabrousek has his RR up on xtri.com where he mentions surfing back in. clm in sf Hadn’t thought about that! I was wondering the same thing about 3 foot swell being a big deal, but I guess they would be on a 2.4 mile freshwater swim. thanks for posting Ken.  boats is something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   — I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was  fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt  water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made  a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent  when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in  rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there. — cathy morgan san francisco, ca

Response:

I wonder if it would be feasible to have a triathlon swim in the Great Salt Lake, or some arm of it.  You’d get plenty of buoyency.  The downside is those who tend to ingest very much water as they swim would end up OD’ing on salt and whatever pollution is in the lake, thus the length of the swim might have to be limited for health reasons.  This might be a swim where you’d actually want to carry a water bottle.

I’ve heard second-hand that Salt Lake is really disgusting. I think I might have to pass on that one. -Harold

Response:

I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there.

I do almost all of my open water swimming in Lake Champlain (which was recently almost named a great lake). Usually, it is very smooth. It doesn’t take much wind to create 2 to 3 foot swells. It wouldn’t be that bad, but there isn’t, as someone else said, is that they do tend to be right on top of each other. The other, and possibly bigger problem, is that the waves don’t always come from the same direction. On some days, you’ll get to swim into 2 foot waves that aren’t much more than a body length apart PLUS you’ll be swamped from the sides. It’s hard work making any headway in those conditions. I’ve had some harrowing experiences _within_ the relative safety of a bay. I’ve swallowed water. I’ve found myself under a foot of crashing water when I thought I was on the surface. And forget looking for landmarks. I can’t imagine trying to swim 2.4 like that. TTFN, Ryan

Response:

i can understand pulling athletes out of the water,  but cutting the bike/ run in half?  i know it would suck to have to ride in the winds,  but they should at least attempt the full distances.  are there serious safety concerns?

I’ve seen this happen before.  The problem is, by the time you get everyone out of the water, do a head count, quell the general pandemonium, and have the RD, officials, etc., talk it over, and then address the participants, you’ve eaten up at least 3 hours of the race time, THEN you have to organize a restart.

Response:

I had a message from a friend racing in Provo who said three feet number was way low.  The other thing is that the swells were coming one right after and almost on top of one another, more like a washing machine than ocean swells.  It was definitely nothing like Alcatraz, but rather much worse. From a pro’s perspective, Petr Vabrousek has his RR up on xtri.com where he mentions surfing back in. clm in sf – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hadn’t thought about that! I was wondering the same thing about 3 foot swell being a big deal, but I guess they would be on a 2.4 mile freshwater swim. thanks for posting Ken. something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   — I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there.

– cathy morgan san francisco, ca

Response:

Utah lake is a very shallow lake. When the wind blows it create waves very close together. It is much different than an ocean swell. Also most boats on the lake are very small and are made for calm recreational use.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a message from a friend racing in Provo who said three feet number was way low.  The other thing is that the swells were coming one right after and almost on top of one another, more like a washing machine than ocean swells.  It was definitely nothing like Alcatraz, but rather much worse. From a pro’s perspective, Petr Vabrousek has his RR up on xtri.com where he mentions surfing back in. clm in sf Hadn’t thought about that! I was wondering the same thing about 3 foot swell being a big deal, but I guess they would be on a 2.4 mile freshwater swim. thanks for posting Ken. boats is something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   — I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there. — cathy morgan san francisco, ca

Response:

Gave some thought to doing that race.   Sure glad I did not get involved. It would have been a real downer to have traveled that far to have it turn out as it has.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this type of weather there an anomaly?  Wondering how detailed the planning was for this type of occurrence…and yeah, I can imagine a lot of bummed potential Iron-folks…yikes! Mike C If you haven’t seen on ironmanlive.com, IM Utah has been changed to a duathlon this morning. Apparently the winds kicked up to 25-30 mph this morning and Utah Lake became Utah ocean with swells up to 3 feet. Swimmers were carried off course, for those who even attempted to swim it. Lifeguard boats were even being capsized. The swim was called off and boats brought in all the remaining swimmers. Apparently some pro’s did make the entire swim. An athletes meeting was held and it was decided the race would be changed to a duathlon with a bike of 60-65 miles and a run of 13.1 miles. Beginning at 10 a.m. the pro waves would start off in 15 sec intervals (women going first) and then the age groupers would go off in 3 sec intervals. It was expected to take about 90 mins to get everyone going. check out www.ironmanlive.com and click on the utah banner for more updates. There have got to be some bummed athletes out there today, that’s for sure.

Response:

i can understand pulling athletes out of the water,  but cutting the bike/ run in half?  i know it would suck to have to ride in the winds,  but they should at least attempt the full distances.  are there serious safety concerns? aren’t the winds in kona as bad as these?  from what the weather station says there is no rain.  i can imagine a lot if disappointed athletes.   todd sandiego ps 65 and overcast here,  too bad they had to move to utah:P

Response:

If you haven’t seen on ironmanlive.com, IM Utah has been changed to a duathlon this morning.

If someone is trying for a spot in the Hawaii IM, are they out of luck if something like this happens? I’m new to this, so I’m not clear on how one qualifies for the big IM. Rob

Response:

i can understand pulling athletes out of the water,  but cutting the bike/ run in half?  i know it would suck to have to ride in the winds,  but they should at least attempt the full distances.  are there serious safety concerns? aren’t the winds in kona as bad as these?  from what the weather station says there is no rain.  i can imagine a lot if disappointed athletes.

I wonder if it has something to do with time constraints? RDM said in his post the race would be re-started at 10 AM and it was expected to take 90 min to get everyone going.  If that holds true, it would seem that doing the full distance would leave an awful lot of people finishing in the dark. I’m watching from a distance like all of you – so that’s just a guess for whatever it’s worth…  (about $.02)

Response:

If someone is trying for a spot in the Hawaii IM, are they out of luck if something like this happens?

according to ironmanlive,  all spots will be awarded to top finalist. todd sandiego ps- i still think they should have stayed in so cal:P

Response:

There must be higher powers at work trying to limit the number of IM races in the US.  I was at Pineman in Ohio in 1999 wherein fog made the swim impossible.  Fortunately no one was hurt at that race.  Tthe course was shortened to a 56 mile bike and full marathon due to time constraints which obviously disappointed many participants who’d trained for the full IM distance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i can understand pulling athletes out of the water,  but cutting the bike/ run in half?  i know it would suck to have to ride in the winds,  but they should at least attempt the full distances.  are there serious safety concerns? aren’t the winds in kona as bad as these?  from what the weather station says there is no rain.  i can imagine a lot if disappointed athletes. I wonder if it has something to do with time constraints? RDM said in his post the race would be re-started at 10 AM and it was expected to take 90 min to get everyone going.  If that holds true, it would seem that doing the full distance would leave an awful lot of people finishing in the dark. I’m watching from a distance like all of you – so that’s just a guess for whatever it’s worth…  (about $.02)

Response:

Latest news is that one athlete from Redondo Beach, a  53 year old male, has died during the swim portion of the race this a.m. It’s not been determined if it was from drowning or heart attack or what. Tony DeBoom has won on the men’s side and Jenny Tobin on the women’s. All qualifying slots will still be allocated as will the prize money for the pro’s. It’s bee a very sad, tough and emotional day for alot of folks. My guess is that this type of wind, at least at this extreme, was not common. I think that WTC and Ironman did their best to change the race due to the cirumstances. It is very, very unfortunate that someone died because of this. Some other facts: Almost 1980 competitors had registered, but only 1536 actually started the race. Out of those 1536, only 1435 elected to continue on with the "altered" duathlon course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If someone is trying for a spot in the Hawaii IM, are they out of luck if something like this happens? according to ironmanlive,  all spots will be awarded to top finalist. todd sandiego ps- i still think they should have stayed in so cal:P

Response:

I believe I know the out come but other than this race,  all Ironman Hawaii contestants have to complete at least a Half IM race.    65 mile bike and 13.1 mile run, while it might take the same time as a Half it is still not a Half IM without a competitive swim leg.    New rules do to unfortunate race circumstances. More important,  My condolences to the family of  John H. Boland.  What a terrible tragedy.   A man sets out to have the time of his life then looses his life.  These are certainly not the memories he nor any of  us wanted to see left behind.   R.I. P. John H. Boland, you must now be in a better place. This entire race has had a dreadful first time experience.   It will take some hard work and dedication of the organizers to put it back together. Good luck to them on the recovery effort.   They all worked hard getting it this far so I am certain they will persevere and return next year by setting new standards for all others to match.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you haven’t seen on ironmanlive.com, IM Utah has been changed to a duathlon this morning. Apparently the winds kicked up to 25-30 mph this morning and Utah Lake became Utah ocean with swells up to 3 feet. Swimmers were carried off course, for those who even attempted to swim it. Lifeguard boats were even being capsized. The swim was called off and boats brought in all the remaining swimmers. Apparently some pro’s did make the entire swim. An athletes meeting was held and it was decided the race would be changed to a duathlon with a bike of 60-65 miles and a run of 13.1 miles. Beginning at 10 a.m. the pro waves would start off in 15 sec intervals (women going first) and then the age groupers would go off in 3 sec intervals. It was expected to take about 90 mins to get everyone going. check out www.ironmanlive.com and click on the utah banner for more updates. There have got to be some bummed athletes out there today, that’s for sure.

Response:

Apparently the winds kicked up to 25-30 mph this morning and Utah Lake became Utah ocean with swells up to 3 feet. Swimmers were carried off course, for those who even attempted to swim it. Lifeguard boats were even being capsized. The swim was called off and boats brought in all

capsizing boats is something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.  Virtually everyone made it to shore, though we rememeber Doug Flutie getting a ride.   Maybe I can see some video of this.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

I was planning on IM Utah 2003 being my first IM (I’ll be choosing another race now).  Having traveled to SLC and Provo many times on business, I know the weather can be very freaky.  Winter/Spring can bring heavy rain (in sheets) out of the blue.  The summer months are hot, but I’ve never heard of wind like this. It sounds like they did the best they could under harrowing circumstances.  I have a couple of friends who raced and will post a RR next week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If someone is trying for a spot in the Hawaii IM, are they out of luck if something like this happens? according to ironmanlive,  all spots will be awarded to top finalist. todd sandiego ps- i still think they should have stayed in so cal:P

Response:

something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   —

I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there.

Response:

Hadn’t thought about that! I was wondering the same thing about 3 foot swell being a big deal, but I guess they would be on a 2.4 mile freshwater swim. thanks for posting Ken. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – something, but are 3ft swells supposed to be a problem? Sounds just like Alcatraz last year.   — I do believe that 3 foot swells in fresh water ( i assume it was fresh) are considerably more difficult to swim in than equil conditions in salt water. Having had experience boating on some large bodies of fresh water made a believer out of me.   The differences in bouyancy become very apparent when wave action picks up.   I have never had the experience of swimming in rough "choppy" fresh water so could be wrong but am glad I was not there.

Response:

If you haven’t seen on ironmanlive.com, IM Utah has been changed to a duathlon this morning. Apparently the winds kicked up to 25-30 mph this morning and Utah Lake became Utah ocean with swells up to 3 feet. Swimmers were carried off course, for those who even attempted to swim it. Lifeguard boats were even being capsized. The swim was called off and boats brought in all the remaining swimmers. Apparently some pro’s did make the entire swim. An athletes meeting was held and it was decided the race would be changed to a duathlon with a bike of 60-65 miles and a run of 13.1 miles. Beginning at 10 a.m. the pro waves would start off in 15 sec intervals (women going first) and then the age groupers would go off in 3 sec intervals. It was expected to take about 90 mins to get everyone going. check out www.ironmanlive.com and click on the utah banner for more updates. There have got to be some bummed athletes out there today, that’s for sure.

Response:

Is this type of weather there an anomaly?  Wondering how detailed the planning was for this type of occurrence…and yeah, I can imagine a lot of bummed potential Iron-folks…yikes! Mike C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you haven’t seen on ironmanlive.com, IM Utah has been changed to a duathlon this morning. Apparently the winds kicked up to 25-30 mph this morning and Utah Lake became Utah ocean with swells up to 3 feet. Swimmers were carried off course, for those who even attempted to swim it. Lifeguard boats were even being capsized. The swim was called off and boats brought in all the remaining swimmers. Apparently some pro’s did make the entire swim. An athletes meeting was held and it was decided the race would be changed to a duathlon with a bike of 60-65 miles and a run of 13.1 miles. Beginning at 10 a.m. the pro waves would start off in 15 sec intervals (women going first) and then the age groupers would go off in 3 sec intervals. It was expected to take about 90 mins to get everyone going. check out www.ironmanlive.com and click on the utah banner for more updates. There have got to be some bummed athletes out there today, that’s for sure.

Response:

Question:

They are already erecting the crucifix for you ! trInIc

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simply because there are periods of drafting does not mean that one is working less hard in total.  Maybe some people are.  Maybe some people are working even harder than they normally would cycling at their own pace. So true.  Stronger cyclists may lose a bit of their advantage in draft legal events but if they are punishing others with a blistering pace it could actually give them an advantage on the run over those who are stronger runners but who are suffering on the bike. I’ve done maybe ten triathlons.  In those races I’ve never suffered like I’ve suffered in criteriums when I’m in "over my head". In a draft-free triathlon, if you feel yourself going over the brink, you can simply back off a little to recover. There is no particular penalty. Absolutely true.  And this is one reason I prefer non-drafting races, you control your own pace without worrying about others as much. In a criterium, you sometimes have no choice but to push beyond the brink or risk losing the pack and its efficiency–and therefore your chances of a decent finish. Very true in crits but there is a twist in draft legal tris since you need to run after cycling. If you do decide to redline to stay with a pack then you may be sacrificing your run.  There is much more strategy as the weaker cyclist needs to decide whether it is worth trying to hang with the pack and having no legs on which to run.  Or is it better to drop off the back, recover a bit and maybe go with the next pack and, hopefully, come off with fresher legs.  Dropping off the back is simultaneously both a demoralizing bummer and huge relief.  Very depressing to see the group disappearing into the distance. Then one has to decide whether to continue riding hard or spin and wait for the next pack.  Meanwhile the leaders have to decide just how hard they need to push the pace to keep enough distance between them and possible top runners in chase packs.  IF the leaders go all out, while a few top runners may be sitting in on a chase pack saving their legs, will they have enough to hold off the chasers?  I know it doesn’t seem very fair compared to non-drafting races.  It is just a different form of triathon. It’s very strategic and quite often actually makes the bike leg of a draft legal race more interesting to the participants, IMO. -hug

Response:

Simply because there are periods of drafting does not mean that one is working less hard in total.  Maybe some people are.  Maybe some people are working even harder than they normally would cycling at their own pace.  

So true.  Stronger cyclists may lose a bit of their advantage in draft legal events but if they are punishing others with a blistering pace it could actually give them an advantage on the run over those who are stronger runners but who are suffering on the bike. I’ve done maybe ten triathlons.  In those races I’ve never suffered like I’ve suffered in criteriums when I’m in "over my head". In a draft-free triathlon, if you feel yourself going over the brink, you can simply back off a little to recover. There is no particular penalty.  

Absolutely true.  And this is one reason I prefer non-drafting races, you control your own pace without worrying about others as much. In a criterium, you sometimes have no choice but to push beyond the brink or risk losing the pack and its efficiency–and therefore your chances of a decent finish.

Very true in crits but there is a twist in draft legal tris since you need to run after cycling. If you do decide to redline to stay with a pack then you may be sacrificing your run.  There is much more strategy as the weaker cyclist needs to decide whether it is worth trying to hang with the pack and having no legs on which to run.  Or is it better to drop off the back, recover a bit and maybe go with the next pack and, hopefully, come off with fresher legs.  Dropping off the back is simultaneously both a demoralizing bummer and huge relief.  Very depressing to see the group disappearing into the distance. Then one has to decide whether to continue riding hard or spin and wait for the next pack.  Meanwhile the leaders have to decide just how hard they need to push the pace to keep enough distance between them and possible top runners in chase packs.  IF the leaders go all out, while a few top runners may be sitting in on a chase pack saving their legs, will they have enough to hold off the chasers?  I know it doesn’t seem very fair compared to non-drafting races.  It is just a different form of triathon. It’s very strategic and quite often actually makes the bike leg of a draft legal race more interesting to the participants, IMO. -hug

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<<As for draft legal tris being easier than non-drafting (AND sprints being easier than long distance) I will say that without a doubt the most painful race I have ever done was a draft legal super sprint.  It was three rounds of a 250m swim/4k bike/1.2k(?) run with about a 10 minute break between rounds.  It hurt FAR more than Wildflower Half Ironman which many consider to be one of the toughest half ironman races. This is a really excellent point. Simply because there are periods of drafting does not mean that one is working less hard in total.  Maybe some people are.  Maybe some people are working even harder than they normally would cycling at their own pace.   I’ve done maybe ten triathlons.  In those races I’ve never suffered like I’ve suffered in criteriums when I’m in "over my head". In a draft-free triathlon, if you feel yourself going over the brink, you can simply back off a little to recover.  There is no particular penalty.  In a criterium, you sometimes have no choice but to push beyond the brink or risk losing the pack and its efficiency–and therefore your chances of a decent finish. -Kevin

Response:

I will ask, is the time trial the only acceptable version of cycling or are road races & crits also accepted as part of the sport?

At the risk of stepping in where angels (but not Brian W.) fear to tread: road races & crits (with drafting) are perfectly reasonable forms of bike racing. That format becomes more questionable when the start time is seeded by swim performance, and more so yet when the subsequent run dampens the incentive for a breakaway. Brian’s riff on the "original intent" of tri doesn’t carry much water with me though. Andrew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will ask, is the time trial the only acceptable version of cycling or are road races & crits also accepted as part of the sport? At the risk of stepping in where angels (but not Brian W.) fear to tread: road races & crits (with drafting) are perfectly reasonable forms of bike racing. That format becomes more questionable when the start time is seeded by swim performance, and more so yet when the subsequent run dampens the incentive for a breakaway. Brian’s riff on the "original intent" of tri doesn’t carry much water with me though. I will ask, is the time trial the only acceptable version of cycling or are road races & crits also accepted as part of the sport? At the risk of stepping in where angels (but not Brian W.) fear to tread: road races & crits (with drafting) are perfectly reasonable forms of bike racing. That format becomes more questionable when the start time is seeded by swim performance, and more so yet when the subsequent run dampens the incentive for a breakaway. Brian’s riff on the "original intent" of tri doesn’t carry much water with me though.

My point was that just because the format is different doesn’t mean it isn’t still triathlon.  There are different types of cycling races, so I don’t have a huge problem with different types of triathlon races. I CERTAINLY am not saying draft legal events are better or fairer than traditional non-drafting tris.  I definitely prefer non-drafting races.  Unlike traditional races, each draft legal race is different, so it is kind of exciting (often nerve-wracking) b/c you never know what is going to happen. You’d be surprised at just how hard the pace is on those swimmer breakaways.  They are doing anything but relaxing and just waiting for the run.  When the swim ends up being short (like at US elite Nationals in NYC) and everyone ends up in one big pack then you are right, the cycle portion is a joke with no incentive for a breakaway. As for draft legal tris being easier than non-drafting (AND sprints being easier than long distance) I will say that without a doubt the most painful race I have ever done was a draft legal super sprint.  It was three rounds of a 250m swim/4k bike/1.2k(?) run with about a 10 minute break between rounds.  It hurt FAR more than Wildflower Half Ironman which many consider to be one of the toughest half ironman races. -hug

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You probably wouldn’t say that if you’d ever seen Brian dance on a Festivus Pole. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And other holiday greetings, y’all. Bah!  Humbug!

Response:

Brian Wagner wrote And other holiday greetings, y’all.

And just to make you all smile, I went for my first sea swim this morning, balmy temps., no clouds, lovely morning, no wind, lovely…

Response:

Who is first for the "Feats of Strength"!!??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And other holiday greetings, y’all.

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Brian, Are you having the usual Hall of Grievances/Feats of Strength? If so, I have issues… Rick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And other holiday greetings, y’all.

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I think he was on the wrong use group. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brian, Are you having the usual Hall of Grievances/Feats of Strength? If so, I have issues… Rick And other holiday greetings, y’all.

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And other holiday greetings, y’all.

Hey, has anyone noticed Ben & Jerry’s has a Festivus ice cream out now?  (Wonder if the slogan is "the ice cream for the rest of us"?) Happy holidays! -hug

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And other holiday greetings, y’all. Hey, has anyone noticed Ben & Jerry’s has a Festivus ice cream out now?  (Wonder if the slogan is "the ice cream for the rest of us"?)

Laurie, I like the way you always get down to the important stuff! Happy etc all! Andrew

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Hey, has anyone noticed Ben & Jerry’s has a Festivus ice cream out now?  (Wonder if the slogan is "the ice cream for the rest of us"?) Laurie, I like the way you always get down to the important stuff!

Gotta have your priorities straight!  Actually I have ice cream on the brain since I have kept my New Year’s resolution of last year not to buy any ice cream.  (When I was in Italy last month I DID buy gelato but that wasn’t *called* ice cream, so perhaps I bent the rules a bit!) -hug (who has calculated that ice cream can be bought in 3 days, 4 hours and 10 minutes…unless the same resolution is made again for next year.)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, has anyone noticed Ben & Jerry’s has a Festivus ice cream out now?  (Wonder if the slogan is "the ice cream for the rest of us"?) Laurie, I like the way you always get down to the important stuff! Gotta have your priorities straight!  Actually I have ice cream on the brain since I have kept my New Year’s resolution of last year not to buy any ice cream.  (When I was in Italy last month I DID buy gelato but that wasn’t *called* ice cream, so perhaps I bent the rules a bit!) -hug (who has calculated that ice cream can be bought in 3 days, 4 hours and 10 minutes…unless the same resolution is made again for next year.)

My respect has grown even more. But don’t follow the same well-trodden path for this year. Perhaps a different resolution…chocolate for example. (That may be extreme…and we’d have to leave the decision over chocolate ice cream to the judges… Andrew "theobromines-r-us" Duncan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, has anyone noticed Ben & Jerry’s has a Festivus ice cream out now?  (Wonder if the slogan is "the ice cream for the rest of us"?) Laurie, I like the way you always get down to the important stuff! Gotta have your priorities straight!  Actually I have ice cream on the brain since I have kept my New Year’s resolution of last year not to buy any ice cream.  (When I was in Italy last month I DID buy gelato but that wasn’t *called* ice cream, so perhaps I bent the rules a bit!) -hug (who has calculated that ice cream can be bought in 3 days, 4 hours and 10 minutes…unless the same resolution is made again for next year.)

I notice you resolved not to BUY ice cream for a year, but make no mention of enjoying the generosity of others. What is this year’s resolution, so we know what to treat you to? And what is in this Festivus ice cream? Enquiring minds want to know.

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path for this year. Perhaps a different resolution…chocolate for example. (That may be extreme…and we’d have to leave the decision over chocolate ice cream to the judges… Andrew "theobromines-r-us" Duncan

Chocolate? CHOCOLATE?! Have you gone mad?  Well it is already too late anyhow. Yesterday, New Year’s Day, I had chocolate-dipped cookies with tea for breakfast, an assortment of chocolate candies (Guylian, Milka & some surprisingly tasty domestic chocolates called Smidgens by Gertrude & Hawk) for dessert after lunch, chocolate cake after dinner and then chocolate pudding and more candy as an evening snack! No lie, just a typical day. As Brian noted, I was allowed to have ice cream – IFF someone else bought it for me!  Didn’t bother to check what was in Festivus since I figured none of the strangers in line at B&Js was gonna treat me.  I think I will continue with the ice cream resolution as it really helped me keep my weight down this summer when all the premium pints went on those nearly irresistable "buy one, get one free" sales. Perhaps I could ALSO try to give up chocolate for just one day a week (she says as she munches on chocolate-dipped graham cookies). To get this back to being somewhat triathlon rated, here is something to ponder.  If you had to give up either your favorite food (in my case chocolate) or triathlon for a year, which would it be? -hug

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To get this back to being somewhat triathlon rated, here is something to ponder.  If you had to give up either your favorite food (in my case chocolate) or triathlon for a year, which would it be? -hug

Triathlon has become a big part of me. I love the variety in the workouts, the thrill of a race, and meeting the interesting people who are attracted to the sport. I really love traithlon. I’d really miss it. I guess I’d think about that while I was eating that steak. Tom

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Chocolate? CHOCOLATE?! Have you gone mad?  Well it is already too late anyhow. Yesterday, New Year’s Day, I had chocolate-dipped cookies with tea for breakfast, an assortment of chocolate candies (Guylian, Milka & some surprisingly tasty domestic chocolates called Smidgens by Gertrude & Hawk) for dessert after lunch, chocolate cake after dinner and then chocolate pudding and more candy as an evening snack! No lie, just a typical day.

Note to self: For new aftershave, mix equal parts Clorox and Hershey’s cocoa. As Brian noted, I was allowed to have ice cream – IFF someone else bought it for me!

And you thought no one would catch that.   Didn’t bother to check what was in Festivus since I figured none of the strangers in line at B&Js was gonna treat me.  

With your charm?  Pshaw! I think I will continue with the ice cream resolution as it really helped me keep my weight down this summer when all the premium pints went on those nearly irresistable "buy one, get one free" sales.

You mean you couldn’t find anyone who just wanted one pint? It’s easier if you drop the interval to something smaller than a year. My simple formula for weight control – weekdays, eat like Vulcan; weekends, eat like Klingon. Perhaps I could ALSO try to give up chocolate for just one day a week (she says as she munches on chocolate-dipped graham cookies).

Lent will be soon upon us. To get this back to being somewhat triathlon rated, here is something to ponder.  If you had to give up either your favorite food (in my case chocolate) or triathlon for a year, which would it be?

Easy – the one food, because there are so many others to enjoy. I’ll pretty much eat anything that doesn’t eat me first.

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As Brian noted, I was allowed to have ice cream – IFF someone else bought it for me! And you thought no one would catch that.  

Well practically the only time I had ice cream was when I went to my parents house and they usually have the crappy fat free and or sugar free stuff which isn’t even worth eating.  One of my masters swimmers who knew of my resolution gave me two pints of Godiva chocolate ice cream about a month ago as an early Christmas present though! To get this back to being somewhat triathlon rated, here is something to ponder.  If you had to give up either your favorite food (in my case chocolate) or triathlon for a year, which would it be? Easy – the one food, because there are so many others to enjoy.

The same can be said about sports.  If I stopped doing triathlon for a year I could still do masters swim meets (and/or running races, cycling races, mountain biking, etc.) AND continue to enjoy my chocolate.  Now if the stipulation was that you’d have to stop all tri related activities THAT would make the decision harder. -hug (there’s always golf I guess – ha!)

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To get this back to being somewhat triathlon rated, here is something to ponder.  If you had to give up either your favorite food (in my case chocolate) or triathlon for a year, which would it be? Easy – the one food, because there are so many others to enjoy. I’ll pretty much eat anything that doesn’t eat me first.

Agreed, I could give up any one food and replace it with a host of others. Libations are another issue entirely.  If the choice were wine or triathlon, I’d be saying see you next year…

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Well practically the only time I had ice cream was when I went to my parents house and they usually have the crappy fat free and or sugar free stuff which isn’t even worth eating.

Every time I’m at my parents’ there’s nothing but vanilla, and nothing to put on it. What’s with parents anyway? One of my masters swimmers who knew of my resolution gave me two pints of Godiva chocolate ice cream about a month ago as an early Christmas present though!

We should start an ice cream relief campaign for you.  Please supply a list of favorites, with seasonal preferences. The same can be said about sports. If I stopped doing triathlon for a year I could still do masters swim meets

In the winter I typically only swim, but it’s still triathlon training.   (and/or running races, cycling races, mountain biking, etc.) AND continue to enjoy my chocolate.  Now if the stipulation was that you’d have to stop all tri related activities THAT would make the decision harder.

Obviously, it would have to mean you give up all elements of triathlon, otherwise, one could simply limit oneself to ITU draft-legal races and technically be giving up triathlon.<G   Mountain biking would be a gray area. Keep in mind, I wanted nothing to do with any competitive sport until I found this one. -hug (there’s always golf I guess – ha!)

just like there’s always carob.

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In the winter I typically only swim, but it’s still triathlon training.  

I don’t look at it that way.  I consider the winter to be masters swimming season, the summer to be triathlon season, there is a bit of a crossover in the spring and the fall is off-season for both.  If I had to give up swimming or chocolate – well, I shudder to think.  It would be easier to give up triathlon for a year for sure.  I could happily go without running for a year!  Since 1974 the longest I have ever gone without swimming is 4 months and it was pure hell! Obviously, it would have to mean you give up all elements of triathlon, otherwise, one could simply limit oneself to ITU draft-legal races and technically be giving up triathlon.<G  

LOL…resist, must…resist…responding. Do we really want to have another rehash of the drafting issues???  Admittedly I have gone to the dark side and -gasp- have been doing some of those evil draft legal races but that is a whole other topic.  You mean I CAN continue to do those races and keep my chocolate!?  That would mean no trip to Cleveland then and we all know know what a sacrifice that would be. (Which city has a worse rap anyhow – Cleveland or Philly?  I actually think both are quite nice, though Cleveland is far duller.)  I will ask, is the time trial the only acceptable version of cycling or are road races & crits also accepted as part of the sport? -hug (there’s always golf I guess – ha!) just like there’s always carob.

Great analogy. I don’t care what others say about you, anyone who can both tick me off AND crack me up in the same post can’t be all that bad. -hug

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LOL…resist, must…resist…responding.

Luke, give in to your anger, come over to the dark side. Do we really want to have another rehash of the drafting issues???

Is a frog’s ass watertight? Admittedly I have gone to the dark side and -gasp- have been doing some of those evil draft legal races but that is a whole other topic.

You’re forgiven – we know the siren song of the loot is too strong to resist. I blame the system – you get to a certain point, and it’s your only option for greater competition.  I think I’m safe in saying that even the most vehement among us envies the talent that places that dilemma on your plate, even if we dread facing it. You mean I CAN continue to do those races and keep my chocolate!?  

If you hold to the sacrifice being only participation in real triathlons, as opposed to related and contributory activities.  However, you can have both anyway, since this is only a hypothetical. That would mean no trip to Cleveland then and we all know know what a sacrifice that would be.

Yeah, no racing without cold drinking water, no getting to the finish line to discover no food, no poorly organized, goat rope of a race.  I plan to find another race that weekend, but one that will still allow me to be at the finish line downtown with a pint of Pierre’s ice cream in hand. Jack Caress is worse than Les McDonald. (Which city has a worse rap anyhow – Cleveland or Philly?  I actually think both are quite nice, though Cleveland is far duller.)

Cleveland is a nice place to live, but I can’t think of a reason to visit.  Good to live and good to visit are typically mutually exclusive.  Tourism and travel are largely based on the idea of crapping where someone else lives, rather than where you live. Hence, living in a tourism mecca means you are the someone else whose living space fills up with other people’s crap. I will ask, is the time trial the only acceptable version of cycling or are road races & crits also accepted as part of the sport?

No, cycling has already established itself as a team sport, with no pretense of being individual. However, just because hurdles and javelins are a legitimate part of track and field doesn’t mean they belong in the run segment of triathlon (the LAST thing you want to do is put a sharp object in the hands of most people here, yours truly included.) Great analogy. I don’t care what others say about you, anyone who can both tick me off AND crack me up in the same post can’t be all that bad.

You shouldn’t say things like that.  A guy could become hopelessly smitten.

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And other holiday greetings, y’all.

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And other holiday greetings, y’all.

Bah!  Humbug!

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Question:

(5th Egg and Spoon Race New End Primary School, London, 1968)

Sure, but what was your time?

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Rarely any pros post regularly to this newsgroup.

Actually, I’ve seen quite a few pros post to this newsgroup.  However, with the exception of Gordo, they all seem more intersting in selling their old, used bikes and wheels at retail than trying to be helpful. Before you buy.

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JNB: Whoa, my friend.  It sounds more like you have an issue on how you might feel about seeing other people’s results, and feeling some kind of compulsion to compare them to your own accomplishments.  In an ironic way, you state that sport should be done for one’s own gratification – yet you seem to have an issue since these folks are making you, well, bugged…by sharing that gratification. If you feel that way, I’m sorry.  I don’t think anyone in this forum (well, almost anyone) is in the sport of triathlon to gain the ability to rub newbies, short-course, Olympic Distance, and anyone else not IM’s faces in their results…it’s just that they’ve finished something and are sharing it.  You don’t have to feel bad, you don’t have to get mad…ask yourself "Why am I so pissed when I read that?"  Is it because they did an Ironman, and that’s not where you plan on going in your Tri-career…but it makes you feel miffed? Don’t be angry at where someone else has gone – focus on your own journey – it’s for you, right? Hope you feel better… Hurricane Bob * Does the noise in my head bother you? *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why does it bug me? It bugs me because I think you should do sports for your own gratification and to fulfill your own inner demons.

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Woops, sorry about the bad grammar there.  You get the point, though. – John "Never change tenses halfway through a post" Royal Rarely any pros post regularly to this newsgroup. Actually, I’ve seen quite a few pros post to this newsgroup.  However, with the exception of Gordo, they all seem more intersting in selling their old, used bikes and wheels at retail than trying to be helpful. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?  It seems stupid to me.  Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM competitor? Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth? I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care. jeremy b

LOL. Using the moniker "IronPenguin"  is BRAGGING??? One reason I put it down there is to encourage other slow folks, who may not think they "belong" in an Ironman, to give it serious thought. I’ve been contacted for advice by a number of racers who were just looking to finish. They were comfortable knowing we shared the same ability level and goals. I’m proud that I’ve managed to finish three of things, but fully aware of how slow I am and how pale my times are in comparison to others. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00

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I wish Peter would post to this newsgroup.  If I was Peter I would probably have a sig similar to "Kicked everyone’s ass in Canada and then cleaned house in Hawaii" or "No one can stop me" or "The one everyone wishes they could race like" or "my wife can outrun male pro’s…" or … Steve "non-IM and still proud" Before you buy.

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If it "bugs" you so much you are free not to read it! And no I don’t leave my markings on.  As a matter of fact I generally wash them off as soon as possible after the race. And although my child has been an honor student for the past 7 years my vehicle has no stickers on it. I am proud of my accomplishments. And anyone who finishes any triathlon should feel the same pride. B.Oliver P.S. I have spoke to Peter several times, as he trains here in the spring, and I think he is equally proud of his two biggest accomplishments(IMH 98, 00 1st place overall)! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Why does it bug me? It bugs me because I think you should do sports for your own gratification and to fulfill your own inner demons.  Not so that you may gather respect from people you dont know.  I’ll respect your opinion as a triathlete and a person no matter if you’ve completed IMCAL or your local sprint distance race.  The reason why I brought it up is that I saw a sig that said to the effect Vineman 99,00(the long course)–my response was big wup. Congratulations!  Lastly, I think it does a disservice to other triathletes who are new or short course(olympic, intl, sprint) racers who read this newsgroup. I think it says you can only be proud of her accomplishments if you do an IM if you do an olympic dist race for the first time and feel great, feel proud feel whatever–your accomplishment doesnt count because it wasnt an IM. It "bugs" me the same way that triathletes who leave their body markings on for days after the race just so that people will ask them why they have a 2207 in permanent marker on their legs.  It "bugs" me the same way that bumper stickers middle school.  I’d be willing to bet that the same people who put their past accomplishments on their sig also have that bumper sticker and also leave body marking on their body as long as possible.   If Peter Reid replied to this newsgroup I dont think his sig would say "IMH 1st pro male ‘98,’00." jeremy b

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wish Peter would post to this newsgroup.  If I was Peter I would probably have a sig similar to "Kicked everyone’s ass in Canada and then cleaned house in Hawaii" or "No one can stop me" or "The one everyone wishes they could race like" or "my wife can outrun male pro’s…" or … Steve "non-IM and still proud"

 Steve…you kick ass!

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Mike, I think I’ve come up with a great way for slow folks (or is it pokes) like us to give our Ironman times – list it as the actual time when you finish. For example – it took me 14:15 or so to do IMUSA, but that correlates to 9:15pm. So, instead of IMUSA 99′ 15:14  , it’s suddenly much better looking as IMUSA 99′ 9:15 ! This is in jest. But there is a sweet beauty to it. In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?  It seems stupid to me.  Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM competitor? Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth? I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care. jeremy b LOL. Using the moniker "IronPenguin"  is BRAGGING??? One reason I put it down there is to encourage other slow folks, who may not think they "belong" in an Ironman, to give it serious thought. I’ve been contacted for advice by a number of racers who were just looking to finish. They were comfortable knowing we shared the same ability level and goals. I’m proud that I’ve managed to finish three of things, but fully aware of how slow I am and how pale my times are in comparison to others. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00

Before you buy.

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Oh man, it was 100m and I did about 9.55 Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (5th Egg and Spoon Race New End Primary School, London, 1968) Sure, but what was your time?

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I can understand your pride and I can understand how you dont mind seeing olympic dist racers sigs with races on it (but honestly, how many people have you seen that put olym dist races on their sigs? )  To the one psychologist in the group who responded, thank you fellow psychology major–are we going into a discussion about Maslow’s heirarchy of self actualization?  I hope not. Well, you’ve thoroughly convinced me I dare say… and I thank you for that… jeremy b. Wildflower ‘00 SJIT ‘98 ‘99 NVT "99 I’ll put my marathon down too… CIM ‘99

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If it "bugs" you so much you are free not to read it! And no I don’t leave my markings on.  As a matter of fact I generally wash them off as soon as possible after the race. And although my child has been an honor student for the past 7 years my vehicle has no stickers on it.

I prefer the bumper sticker that says "My had sex with your honor student" Anyway, sure, it’s bragging rights, it’s pride, it’s ego.  Do I think it’s pointless? Yes.  Is there anything I can do about it? No. So I live with it.  I consider it the most acceptable example of such behavior – it’s limited to the context of fellow triathletes, a group of people who appreciate its meaning.  It’s not like they’re renting space on the Goodyear blimp to tell the general public.  In contrast, the honor student bumper sticker, I’d let affect how much respect I have for someone.           As for the race numbers, shower normally after a race, and depending on the markers they use, and how clean you were when they were applied, some remnant may be retained.  Who cares?  I once went straight to a theme park (my company has a perfect record of scheduling the company picnic the weekend of the big triathlon here) from a race, with no opportunity to take a decent shower (they had a garden hose on a pole) and people got out of my way, and a few let me ahead of them in line because they figured I’d expended enough energy for one day.  That’s what you call tangible benefit, as opposed to bragging rights.

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Or "I am NOT a North American, I am Canadian" Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish Peter would post to this newsgroup.  If I was Peter I would probably have a sig similar to "Kicked everyone’s ass in Canada and then cleaned house in Hawaii" or "No one can stop me" or "The one everyone wishes they could race like" or "my wife can outrun male pro’s…" or … Steve "non-IM and still proud" Before you buy.

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Errr, but for me that would either be like 17:35 or 5:35… Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I think I’ve come up with a great way for slow folks (or is it pokes) like us to give our Ironman times – list it as the actual time when you finish. For example – it took me 14:15 or so to do IMUSA, but that correlates to 9:15pm. So, instead of IMUSA 99′ 15:14  , it’s suddenly much better looking as IMUSA 99′ 9:15 ! This is in jest. But there is a sweet beauty to it. In article I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?  It seems stupid to me.  Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM competitor? Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth? I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care. jeremy b LOL. Using the moniker "IronPenguin"  is BRAGGING??? One reason I put it down there is to encourage other slow folks, who may not think they "belong" in an Ironman, to give it serious thought. I’ve been contacted for advice by a number of racers who were just looking to finish. They were comfortable knowing we shared the same ability level and goals. I’m proud that I’ve managed to finish three of things, but fully aware of how slow I am and how pale my times are in comparison to others. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00 Before you buy.

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On the topic of favorite bumper stickers… "Don’t laugh mister, Your daughter’s in here!" On the back of a beat up van. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it "bugs" you so much you are free not to read it! And no I don’t leave my markings on.  As a matter of fact I generally wash them off as soon as possible after the race. And although my child has been an honor student for the past 7 years my vehicle has no stickers on it. I prefer the bumper sticker that says "My had sex with your honor student" Anyway, sure, it’s bragging rights, it’s pride, it’s ego.  Do I think it’s pointless? Yes.  Is there anything I can do about it? No. So I live with it.  I consider it the most acceptable example of such behavior – it’s limited to the context of fellow triathletes, a group of people who appreciate its meaning.  It’s not like they’re renting space on the Goodyear blimp to tell the general public.  In contrast, the honor student bumper sticker, I’d let affect how much respect I have for someone.    As for the race numbers, shower normally after a race, and depending on the markers they use, and how clean you were when they were applied, some remnant may be retained.  Who cares?  I once went straight to a theme park (my company has a perfect record of scheduling the company picnic the weekend of the big triathlon here) from a race, with no opportunity to take a decent shower (they had a garden hose on a pole) and people got out of my way, and a few let me ahead of them in line because they figured I’d expended enough energy for one day.  That’s what you call tangible benefit, as opposed to bragging rights.

Before you buy.

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Well, you’ve thoroughly convinced me I dare say… and I thank you for that… jeremy b. Wildflower ‘00 SJIT ‘98 ‘99 NVT "99 I’ll put my marathon down too… CIM ‘99

You have been assimilated.  Resistance IS futile.

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With so many things that seem to bug you, have you given serious thought to therapy? My motto: G.O.I. (get over it).  Although I have refrained in the past, my natural urge to do my best to piss others off leads me to sign off as: Marty Carson, IMF99 (13:41); IMF00 (12:42)  : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why does it bug me? It bugs me because I think you should do sports for your own gratification and to fulfill your own inner demons.  Not so that you may gather respect from people you dont know.  I’ll respect your opinion as a triathlete and a person no matter if you’ve completed IMCAL or your local sprint distance race.  The reason why I brought it up is that I saw a sig that said to the effect Vineman 99,00(the long course)–my response was big wup. Congratulations!  Lastly, I think it does a disservice to other triathletes who are new or short course(olympic, intl, sprint) racers who read this newsgroup. I think it says you can only be proud of her accomplishments if you do an IM if you do an olympic dist race for the first time and feel great, feel proud feel whatever–your accomplishment doesnt count because it wasnt an IM. It "bugs" me the same way that triathletes who leave their body markings on for days after the race just so that people will ask them why they have a 2207 in permanent marker on their legs.  It "bugs" me the same way that bumper stickers middle school.  I’d be willing to bet that the same people who put their past accomplishments on their sig also have that bumper sticker and also leave body marking on their body as long as possible. If Peter Reid replied to this newsgroup I dont think his sig would say "IMH 1st pro male ‘98,’00." jeremy b

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OK. That would of course make it your problem. But thanks for sharing! Tom 1997 – 1 sprint, 1998 – 1 sprint, 1999 – 3 sprints, 2000 – 4 sprints and GCT PS: That was kinda fun! Just wish I had an IM race to list. C’mon Jeremy, try it! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why does it bug me? It bugs me because I think you should do sports for your own gratification and to fulfill your own inner demons.  Not so that you may gather respect from people you dont know.  I’ll respect your opinion as a triathlete and a person no matter if you’ve completed IMCAL or your local sprint distance race.  The reason why I brought it up is that I saw a sig that said to the effect Vineman 99,00(the long course)–my response was big wup. Congratulations!  Lastly, I think it does a disservice to other triathletes who are new or short course(olympic, intl, sprint) racers who read this newsgroup. I think it says you can only be proud of her accomplishments if you do an IM if you do an olympic dist race for the first time and feel great, feel proud feel whatever–your accomplishment doesnt count because it wasnt an IM. It "bugs" me the same way that triathletes who leave their body markings on for days after the race just so that people will ask them why they have a 2207 in permanent marker on their legs.  It "bugs" me the same way that bumper stickers middle school.  I’d be willing to bet that the same people who put their past accomplishments on their sig also have that bumper sticker and also leave body marking on their body as long as possible. If Peter Reid replied to this newsgroup I dont think his sig would say "IMH 1st pro male ‘98,’00." jeremy b

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m… I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?

I have yet to see anyone do this. It seems stupid to me.

Why is it stupid? It’s a pride thing. Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM

competitor? No, I don’t look at someone’s times and think they’re "better" than me, or that they’re necessairly a guru. I did my IM in a reasonable time but am still stumped when people ask me for training advice. I just did what my coach told me to do. Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth?

Depends on what you mean by "good" The pros don’t post here. I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care.

Ahh but you obviously do Phil (5th Egg and Spoon Race New End Primary School, London, 1968) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jeremy b

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Lastly, I think it does a disservice to other triathletes who are new or short course(olympic, intl, sprint) racers who read this newsgroup. I think it says you can only be proud of her accomplishments if you do an IM if you do an olympic dist race for the first time and feel great, feel proud feel whatever–your accomplishment doesnt count because it wasnt an IM.

No, those people can feel just as proud of their accomplishments also. Just as I’m proud of my IM time as a result of years of hard work, the people who do Olympic and sprint races who are proud of their times have a right to place it on their sig also; I have no objection to that. It "bugs" me the same way that triathletes who leave their body markings on for days after the race just so that people will ask them why they have a 2207 in permanent marker on their legs.  

Again, it’s a pride thing. I don’t do this myself, but I really don’t see nothing wrong with it. It "bugs" me the same way that bumper stickers middle school.  

Again, pride. I have no objections to this either. Parents are proud of their childrens’ accomplishments. That’s human behavior. I’d be willing to bet that the same people who put their past accomplishments on their sig also have that bumper sticker and also leave body marking on their body as long as possible.

People show their pride in different ways. A lot of triathletes I know have gotten m-dot tattoos. Are they cocky and arrogant? No. As a matter of fact, they are very modest about their efforts. They are proud to have "earned" this tattoo through years of hard work and training.  If Peter Reid replied to this newsgroup I dont think his sig would say "IMH 1st pro male ‘98,’00." jeremy b

Rarely any pros post regularly to this newsgroup. But if they did, they can do whatever they please with their sig. Again, I have no objections to that. Show your pride.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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In the context of this newsgroup, I think it’s nothing more than sharing an accomplishment you’re proud of with a select group of people who might understand what it means to have done an IM. If I ever work my way up to an ironman, I’ll post my 16 hour time just as proudly as those who post sub-12’s. Why would it bug you? Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?  It seems stupid to me.  Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM competitor? Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth? I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care. jeremy b

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You are free to do as you choose.   I add my achievements to my sig line out of pride. I do not consider it bragging.  Some don’t like it and some do. My sig line is not intended to put me aloft of any other.  It does give me an identity with the sport I work so hard at, a sport I have dedicated 16 years of life to.   Some posters are interested in triathlon as only one little aspect of their life.  Some of us are dedicated to it or obsessed by it.   I am not exactly sure why you would be troubled by that.  I have done many triathlons, gaining much knowledge in the process and continue to learn.  Frequently I am asked questions by those newer to the sport.  I like helping when I can and nearly every question will spark thoughts that increase my knowledge of how to get to the line.  I share what I have learned and I believe the sig line does expose the experience.   Experience is a great teacher. IMH 94 ~ age group 2nd,    IMH 95 ~ AG 2nd,     IMH 97 ~ AG 1st,     IMH 98 ~ Ag 3rd,     IMNZ 97 ~ AG 1st + record.    Hopefully, more to follow.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why does it bug me? It bugs me because I think you should do sports for your own gratification and to fulfill your own inner demons.  Not so that you may gather respect from people you dont know.  I’ll respect your opinion as a triathlete and a person no matter if you’ve completed IMCAL or your local sprint distance race.  The reason why I brought it up is that I saw a sig that said to the effect Vineman 99,00(the long course)–my response was big wup. Congratulations!  Lastly, I think it does a disservice to other triathletes who are new or short course(olympic, intl, sprint) racers who read this newsgroup. I think it says you can only be proud of her accomplishments if you do an IM if you do an olympic dist race for the first time and feel great, feel proud feel whatever–your accomplishment doesnt count because it wasnt an IM. It "bugs" me the same way that triathletes who leave their body markings on for days after the race just so that people will ask them why they have a 2207 in permanent marker on their legs.  It "bugs" me the same way that bumper stickers middle school.  I’d be willing to bet that the same people who put their past accomplishments on their sig also have that bumper sticker and also leave body marking on their body as long as possible. If Peter Reid replied to this newsgroup I dont think his sig would say "IMH 1st pro male ‘98,’00." jeremy b

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I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?  It seems stupid to me.  Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM competitor? Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth? I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care. jeremy b

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I was wondering, what do you guys think of the people who like to put down all the races they have done right under their name?  It seems stupid to me.  Am I to believe that they have some extra wisdom about xyz that a non IM competitor? Do you think good athletes would say I’ve done IMH 87-99, IMCAL 00,01 and so forth? I know I dont–it makes someone who doesnt want to be a poser just that a person who poses as a hard core training fanatic.  Leave your race resume on your sponsorship proposal–cause I dont care. jeremy b

No, most of the time it’s not. More often it’s pride and not bragging rights. My best Ironman time is left on my sig because I had the race of my life that gave me my time. An Ironman is so difficult to do and train for that I would encourage people to place their IM finishes on their sig, not the other way around. And no, it doesn’t mean the person knows everything either…after more than 10 years in triathlon and about 5 years on this list I’m still here partly because I still do learn from others here on my weak areas of the sport. As for you not caring, I don’t know about that. You were concerned enough to place this thread in this newsgroup, right? If you did IMH and IMCAL, place it in your sig and be proud of your achievement.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Why does it bug me? It bugs me because I think you should do sports for your own gratification and to fulfill your own inner demons.  Not so that you may gather respect from people you dont know.  I’ll respect your opinion as a triathlete and a person no matter if you’ve completed IMCAL or your local sprint distance race.  The reason why I brought it up is that I saw a sig that said to the effect Vineman 99,00(the long course)–my response was big wup. Congratulations!  Lastly, I think it does a disservice to other triathletes who are new or short course(olympic, intl, sprint) racers who read this newsgroup. I think it says you can only be proud of her accomplishments if you do an IM if you do an olympic dist race for the first time and feel great, feel proud feel whatever–your accomplishment doesnt count because it wasnt an IM. It "bugs" me the same way that triathletes who leave their body markings on for days after the race just so that people will ask them why they have a 2207 in permanent marker on their legs.  It "bugs" me the same way that bumper stickers middle school.  I’d be willing to bet that the same people who put their past accomplishments on their sig also have that bumper sticker and also leave body marking on their body as long as possible.   If Peter Reid replied to this newsgroup I dont think his sig would say "IMH 1st pro male ‘98,’00." jeremy b

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Question:

Hello all.  I’ll be going to Kona in a few short weeks to race there for the very first time.  It’s the realization of a dream for me……I still can hardly believe it’s REALLY going to happen!.  Training wise, I’m in pretty good shape.   This will be my 3rd IM this year, with Cal in May and LP in July.  However, I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations about the course itself, or recommendations on things in and around Kona that would help me and my family maximize our enjoyment Thanks. Al

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Congratulations on making it to Hawaii, here are some things that made my time on the Big Island enjoyable. Sightseeing…I have a few favorites. Take a trip toward Hilo to see the tropical botanical gardens. That is the green side of the Island so enjoy it. Eat dinner in Hilo before you drive back. Another day trip is to Volcanoes National Park. It’s absolutely breathtaking. While you are over there, go to the Place of Refuge. Another day trip is to drive up the Queen K and see the Lapahki fishing village and the birthplace of King K. One more day trip is to go up to the Parker Ranch and tour his art museum. Everything is very expensive so get used to shopping at the Costco for all your needs. I enjoyed seeing all the world-class athletes shopping on Alii Drive during the 2 weeks prior.  I also had the pleasure of getting some of the all-time greats to sign my poster which they had at the shopping center. I would get down to "dig-me" beach at the pier every morning to loosen up with a swim.  It’s a must see each and every morning to get the feel of the energy surrounding Ironman.  They put the buoys out so you could actually do the swim course. There are some races surrounding Ironman, a 5K the week before and an underpants race that is very funny. You shouldn’t miss the parade the day before the event.  There will be a schedule floating around. I don’t remember the restaurants but after 2 weeks there wasn’t anywhere I didn’t eat.  The ones I like I returned to.  There was a concert for Ironman that the locals went to also which was fun.  I ran into an old friend from San Francisco. For spectators on race day I recommend standing on Alii Drive near Uncle Billy’s Hotel so you can see both the runners and the bikers and still be in walking distance when the first finisher comes along.  You won’t be allowed out on the course with a car so plan on walking for your race watching. I recommend standing in the bleachers to see the winner. Make sure you make it to the finish line at midnight to see the last finisher. And last but not least make sure you buy a few souvenirs. Have fun and good luck! — Chris Davis "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one’s courage" –Anais Nin http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all.  I’ll be going to Kona in a few short weeks to race there for the very first time.  It’s the realization of a dream for me……I still can hardly believe it’s REALLY going to happen!.  Training wise, I’m in pretty good shape.   This will be my 3rd IM this year, with Cal in May and LP in July.  However, I was wondering if any of you have any recommendations about the course itself, or recommendations on things in and around Kona that would help me and my family maximize our enjoyment Thanks. Al

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Question:

The July 2000 issue of Runner’s World has a great little write-up on page 109 about Kathleen Hughes. Kathleen is in my age group so I have had the pleasure of meeting her several times. She’s not only a great triathlete, but a tremendously nice person. It was really good to see one of our own triathletes featured in Runner’s World. Cathy

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cathy, thanks for posting this—now i’ve got to run & find a copy.  i second everything you said about kathleen.  she’s a really fine person! peggy mcd-c

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Question:

Whats to do in Baltimore? Any RSTers willing to vouch for it or otherwise? Any must-sees to make the entire trip worthwhile? Anywhere good to run? Hardly worth bringing my bike over for a few days, but is there anywhere I simply have to hire a bike and see? Any good gear-shops/bars/places to stay etc

As others have mentioned the inner harbor area is nice (Aquarium, etc) and Fells Point is a lot of fun at nite (tons of bars).  Baltimore used to be the site of my favorite triathlon (old Bud Light USTS series) and you could do the 10K run course that they used in that tri.  It started near the inner harbor and went out to a point that I believe is called Francis Scott Key park (or something similar).  Mike Schwing also mentioned Troy’s work outs. (His indoor spinning sessions are KILLER though you do need your own bike) and a few years back I was able to swim with them simply by contacting Troy in advance. (He can put your name on a guest list). Something else that could be different & fun would be to catch an Orioles baseball game if they are in town. You may not know the rules but it’s supposedly a distant cousin of cricket. There are 9 innings (unless it’s a tie game) but they are finished in about a third of the time it takes to complete a single inning in one day cricket! -hug

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I was in Baltimore last week.  The inner harbor area is quite nice, with  a great food court and some interesting sites to see.  The only good place to run (that I know of) downtown is around the inner harbor. Quite a few good resterants around the harbor and in Little Italy, which is close to the harbor.  Some great pubs near by as well.  I usually stay at either the Baltimore Hilton & Towers or the Omini.  Both are within walking distanct of the inner harbor but it may be risky walking it at night.  There are several other good to fine hotels, Mariott, Sheriton, Renasance House adjecent to the harbor but they are more money.  If you want to see the "adult" side of Baltimore, hit the "block" on East Baltimore St. Have fun.  Jim"on the road again"Driscoll

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I was in Baltimore in late April last year and found it a very pleasant city to run in.  The harbor includes a prominent hill with a park atop it that makes for nice views.  Also many of the neighborhoods are quite pretty with old (by American standards) brownstown townhomes. As for bars, I’m a beer writer when I’m not working out and there is some very good beer in Baltimore including some passable real ale.  Try either of the the Wharf Rat bars, or if you want something funkier with some Belgian style beers, I’m told that the Brewer’s Art is fun. Ray Daniels – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been asked if I’d mind crossing the pond and spending a few days at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland 20-21st April. My employers expect me to decide on the basis of how important the seminar I’d be going to is to the organisation. Naturally, I will make a balanced decision. So, to form the other half of the balance… Whats to do in Baltimore? Any RSTers willing to vouch for it or otherwise? Any must-sees to make the entire trip worthwhile? Anywhere good to run? Hardly worth bringing my bike over for a few days, but is there anywhere I simply have to hire a bike and see? Any good gear-shops/bars/places to stay etc Any info welcome, Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

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I’ve been asked if I’d mind crossing the pond and spending a few days at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland 20-21st April. My employers expect me to decide on the basis of how important the seminar I’d be going to is to the organisation. Naturally, I will make a balanced decision. So, to form the other half of the balance… Whats to do in Baltimore? Any RSTers willing to vouch for it or otherwise? Any must-sees to make the entire trip worthwhile? Anywhere good to run? Hardly worth bringing my bike over for a few days, but is there anywhere I simply have to hire a bike and see? Any good gear-shops/bars/places to stay etc Any info welcome, Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

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Well, we _do_ have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. That was a sick joke, sadly however, true. Seriously, the space telescope institute is right around some nice running and not too far away from good cycling. In fact, you could join our team (Coach Troy Jacobson’s crew) on Tuesday just up the road at Gilman school for a free track workout, you could also do his Spinervals live in person on Wednesday evenings not far away from where you are too. I don’t think our pool allows for visitors, though. It should be getting warm by April, or at least warmer, and there’s lots do to in downtown Baltimore, if you’re from out of town, people seem to love it. There’s the National Aquarium, the new ESPNZONE, a great harbor, yadda yadda yadda….. Come’on over! Schwing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been asked if I’d mind crossing the pond and spending a few days at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland 20-21st April. My employers expect me to decide on the basis of how important the seminar I’d be going to is to the organisation. Naturally, I will make a balanced decision. So, to form the other half of the balance… Whats to do in Baltimore? Any RSTers willing to vouch for it or otherwise? Any must-sees to make the entire trip worthwhile? Anywhere good to run? Hardly worth bringing my bike over for a few days, but is there anywhere I simply have to hire a bike and see? Any good gear-shops/bars/places to stay etc Any info welcome, Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

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Question:

ruefully) cheers Sam

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ruefully) cheers Sam

I just got the issue!  A funny side note to this:  I ordered Triathlete for my brothers b-day(12/21) and they told me they would send a gift card to him right but guess which issue they said he was going to start at?!….February!!  I should tell him that he’ll start getting it sometime in March… — Tri Your Hardest!   /O    ___o      o      ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)     /           Darrin Bartlett

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Question:

Hourly updates on www.insidetri.com

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Hi Tridork,         Well I just wanted you to know after your actions at Cleveland with the ITU sucks banner you are now famous!! Les now has a picture of you and you will be caught by his henchmen!! There I was standing in a newsagent in Strasbourg, France looking at the french edition of 220 (BTW, it is excellent) having a look at the pictures, I to can’t speak french, when I come across this small but prominate picture of a very blonde guy with dark glasses (good disguise!!!) holding a Drafting ITU sucks banner!! Hey I thought I know him, that’s Tridork. It’s bizzare whne you read and talk to people via email etc and you feel as if you know them very well but in reality you have never meet them in life. Now I at least now what yo look like. I admire your courage Marcus, perhaps you should over throw Les!! If you want I can mail you a copy of the magazine? Let me know. Chris — Chris Carpenter. Duathlon is run..bike..run…Just Du It!!

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Subject says it all. Is anyone from this group likely to be able to feed real time blow by blow race reprots this year? or even relatively quick reports of how RST’ers do at Kona. If "Ruth" has her couch potato kids (I’m a recently adopted dependent, but not a couch slug) could forward stuff about our matriach I’m sure many of us would be appreciative.

I’m working on it for the web site, but logistics are difficult (i.e., a laptop on a speeding motorcycle following the race, hooked up to a modem connected to some ISP via cellular).  At a minimum, I have been promised a few daily updates via regular phone.  Also, I believe that Inside Triathlon has "live" coverage planned.  I don’t know about the live video feed again, but so far Online Hawaii hasn’t announced anything yet. Marty — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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Subject says it all. Is anyone from this group likely to be able to feed real time blow by blow race reprots this year? or even relatively quick reports of how RST’ers do at Kona. If "Ruth" has her couch potato kids (I’m a recently adopted dependent, but not a couch slug) could forward stuff about our matriach I’m sure many of us would be appreciative. TIA TriDork

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Subject says it all. Is anyone from this group likely to be able to feed real time blow by blow race reprots this year? or even relatively quick reports of how RST’ers do at Kona. If "Ruth" has her couch potato kids (I’m a recently adopted dependent, but not a couch slug) could forward stuff about our matriach I’m sure many of us would be appreciative. TIA TriDork

Dork-meister, I was holding off announcing, but I will be bringing my laptop PC with a KODAK DCS-50 Digital camera (yeah it’s a plug, but they pay for my connection.)  In any event, I will be transmitting pictures back to the Rochester Area Triathletes (RATs) homepage for a week or so before the race, race day, and post race.  I can’t guarantee they’ll be in real time…but I will send updates to RST, especially with the status of rst’ers. BTW, the url for the RATs page is: http://www2.rpa.net/~rats Aloha nui loa, Augie Calabrese

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Question:

Hi guys—-well…I can finally use the computer keyboard again with my right hand…three weeks ago today I wiped out on my bike on the way to work… (Bay area Bike to Work day, you know)…The wipe out was enhanced by a moving vehicle.  Thus, I got a ride to Marin General in an ambulance, was given drugs that I never knew existed before, and I’ve had to cancel all of my races for this summer to take the time to heal a shattered humerus and rotator cuff damage…merde.  BUT…I want to wish you all good luck at Alcatraz and a belated good luck for San Jose–I hope everyone was okay and kept hydrated on that HOTTEST DAY from Hades. When I’m better and can stand in a crowd without mortal fear of getting bumped–I’ll come out to cheer on you Northern California RSTers–hey–I could become the offical RST photographer for 1996! Much luck to you guys racing Alcatraz on Sunday–it’ll be a BLAST! Cheers–Melanie Mociun

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I have total empathy for you. I hope you will be able to continue to train and race after you are healed. I got hit two weeks before Wildflower, and I still cannot race yet. I went anyway, and at least got to watch,see some friends, and tried to get some photos of local people. I havn’t taken the greatest pictures, if you get some good, close shots, send them to me and I will scan. Best wishes for a full recovery. Lee Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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Question:

I’m a tubular tire novice and need some advice. 1) How often do they need to be re-glued? 2) How do you deflate a UFO tire in order to re-glue it to the rim? 3) I have been told that Fasttak (sp?) is better than glue because it does not dry out.  Does anyone have any experience with Fasttak? All help appreciated. Mike

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They only need to be reglued if you remove the tire or make a mess of the initial gluing. How would you reglue the tire without removing it?   Glue preference I’m sure you will find is a highly personal issue among racers. —     Ryun Pavlicek                                 Dept of Sociology     University of Virginia                      

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I am considering buying Zipp wheels with tubular rims. What are the best sew-up tires for racing and should I even consider using these wheels for training – if so is there a different tire that would be a better training tire. Thanks, Larry Earnhart

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I am considering buying Zipp wheels with tubular rims. What are the best sew-up tires for racing and should I even consider using these wheels for training – if so is there a different tire that would be a better training tire. Thanks, Larry Earnhart

I use Conti’s exclusivley, Giro for training and Comp240s for racing, i dont care what people say about clinchers now being as good as tubies, nothing rides as good as tubulars. If you only have one set of wheels  I would go for Conti Sprinters, they are rugged enough for training and light enough for racing. Triref

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Are you buying 650s or 700s  If your looking for a great deal on Hed Jet Ironman with sonic hubs, Ti. spokes and low mile Conti Tubular in 700c. Give me a call I’ve switched to 650s  so my wheels and my daughters (X 2) will all be the same size. I’ve had great luck with the Contis. Dan Herrema 770-998-8159 oe email

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writes: I am considering buying Zipp wheels with tubular rims. What are the best sew-up tires for racing and should I even consider using these wheels for training – if so is there a different tire that would be a better training tire. Thanks, Larry Earnhart

Unless you race very very infrequently, you probably won’t want to be swapping tubulars depending on whether you’re riding or racing — it’s just way too much hassle.  Train on a set of clinchers and save the fancy stuff for races. John Tomlinson

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Gotta put my two bits in for Conti Sprinters. Durable and they ride great. I tried UFO tubies and found them to be "soft". —     Ryun Pavlicek                                 Dept of Sociology     University of Virginia                      

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I am considering buying Zipp wheels with tubular rims. What are the best sew-up tires for racing and should I even consider using these wheels for training – if so is there a different tire that would be a better training tire. Thanks, Larry Earnhart Greetings, Go with Continental tires for both training and racing.  I’ve been using Continental GP (19 mm width) for racing, without any problems.  Fast tread, good rubber, long lasting.  For training, you can get a Conti Sprinter 250, or a Giro tire.  However, after 13 years, I have finally shed my roadie attitude and train on normal wheels with continental clincher tires.

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I am considering buying Zipp wheels with tubular rims. What are the best sew-up tires for racing and should I even consider using these wheels for training – if so is there a different tire that would be a better training tire.

I wouldn’t use those expensive wheels for too much training, if any. As for tires, Conti, Conti, Conti.  Comp GP’s or LA’s are used my most pro’s, and both are very durable.  I can honestly say that I’ve NEVER gotten a flat in a race on a Conti tire (boy, I guess I just blew my next race by saying that). Marty Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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Conti seems to be the tire of preference.  I’ll throw in my two bits for them lso.  I use the Conti Comp GP 19mm inflated to 160 lbs.  A very fast responsive tire.  They are expensive (around $70) in the mail order mags, but I only use them for racing.  They have lasted me two years and 20 races.  Never a problem with them.

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I have to aggree with Marty on using deep rims for training, it would be like going to McDonalds (hypothetically if you weren’t triathlete) in a tux: unnessecery! I train on some Specialized Transition I think they are called but race (ZIPP 340 Mid V front and back) on Vittoria CX pro as used by 95% of the peleton last year in the Tour de France. I have had no problems with them, a really excellent tubular tire hwich is responsive and whenever I ride them I feels like, well I don’t know but I guess it’s the feel yo get from riding tubs. My two (english) pence on the subject. I use Shamal extenders since that seems to a topic people talk about and can pump the Vittorias up to 160 psi with no problems. Then again you should never store a tub pumped up anyway. Chris run..bike..run…..Just DU it!

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