Question:

Celery & peanut butter is always filling and not so carby and sugar laden (I do low carb).  When I did high carb low fat eating, cereal always put extra weight on fast, especially sugared cereals — Andrea

Response:

I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..??

There is no difference.  24 hour energy expenditure is what matters.  Energy in, energy out, no magic mojo about time of day. It’s just the calories in the cereal that’s doing it.  What is that stuff, like 99.9% sugar held loosely together by cellulose? Find another snack. Krista — http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html mistresskrista at home.com

Response:

You know, I’ve never understood this.  I hear a lot of nutritionist say sometimes when you feel hungry, you’re actually thirsty.  I think at 43 years old I know when I’m hungry and when I’m thirsty.  I’ve tried drinking water when I’m hungry and surprise!  I’m still hungry. Is there anything more to support this theory? Thanks. Portia

<snip Intro: Hi, first time on rec.running, usually a rec.climbing-type, but as I’ve been running for the better part of 15 years, I thought it’d be fun to participate here. So, your question: I took a nutrition class at night for fun a few years ago and remember learning that whatever part of your brain sends the signal that you are hungry is also the one responsible for sending the signal that you are thirsty. I think it was the hypothalamus(?).  Anyway, I am a voracious snacker, and I’ve found that more often than not 8-12 oz of water will satiate me for a while. Hope that sheds some light. Kreighton

Response:

[snip] CapNCrunch is pretty much just fortified sugar anyway

Haha! I like that one – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – though so replacing it with something else or skipping it all together wouldn’t be a bad idea. -jeff I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..?? I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that extra 5.

Response:

I hear a lot of nutritionist say sometimes when you feel hungry, you’re actually thirsty.  I think at 43 years old I know when I’m hungry and when I’m thirsty.  I’ve tried drinking water when I’m hungry and surprise!  I’m still hungry.

Then you are hungry.  Most folks are in a relatively constant state of dehydration, and that can be sometimes misinterpreted as "I’m hungry".  When you feel that way, drink a nice, cold glass of water, wait about 15 minutes, and if you are still hungry then eat something. Many of us are more in tune with our bodies’ needs than the average Joe, so this may be your case…but I have seen in several different publications the above advice, primarily aimed at those that are trying to lose weight.  The "drink some water if you feel hungry routine" is one of the "tricks"… Mike C

Response:

It doesn’t really matter when you eat, the difference is really small compared to the amount most people eat.  The reason you gain weight is because you’re eating more.  Think about it, why do you need to eat before you go to bed?  By the time you wake up you’ll be hungry again anyway and the rest of the day you’ll probably eat the same amount as you would if you hadn’t eaten the captain crunch.  You’re downing like 5-6 hundred calories (or there abouts) for no reason.  Skip it or cut back something else in the day if you really like doing it.  CapNCrunch is pretty much just fortified sugar anyway though so replacing it with something else or skipping it all together wouldn’t be a bad idea. -jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..?? I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that extra 5.

Response:

yummy  capNcrunch! i did that for about 2 months last winter, i just "craved it"  but there came a time that i realized that all the sugar,  was the problem…. salution i started eating raisin bran, or rice chex still on the sugary side, but i felt, looked and ran much better.

Actually raisin bran has more calories per cup than Captain Crunch, although it is probably slightly healthier (although not as much so as you might think) and is definitely harder to eat huge quantities of. -jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..?? I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that extra 5.

Response:

You know, I’ve never understood this.  I hear a lot of nutritionist say sometimes when you feel hungry, you’re actually thirsty.  I think at 43 years old I know when I’m hungry and when I’m thirsty.  I’ve tried drinking water when I’m hungry and surprise!  I’m still hungry. Is there anything more to support this theory? Thanks. Portia Also, drink lots of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – water…it will help fill you up. Plus sometimes when we think we are hungry we are actually thirsty. I can see how eating before bed will put weight on you, but at night I’m often absolutely starving for something to eat. Does anyone have any tips on how not to eat at that time? Thanks, Michael As a former "fatty," (I once weighed 240 pds and now weigh 174- through changing my eating patterns/type and exercise.  I now teach weight loss seminars with some success.), I can absolutely attest to the difference it makes when I go to bed a bit hungry.  Sorry about not citing science on this.  But I’ve found that when my levels of activity are high (I’m training for a triathlon right now), I need to eat a bit at night or risk losing too much weight.  When they are lower for a period of time, I don’t eat at night so as to avoid weight gain.  Seriously- the only variable to balance out the activity is whether I eat at night, how much and how late. How about trying this: eat a predetermined amount of Capn’Crunch (say, 1 cup) without milk- as a snack- no more than 2 hours before bed.  Try it for one week, yet maintain all your other activity/diet levels.  See if it makes a difference.  Yes- you’ll be changing quantity as well as timing. But the two together should make a difference in no time. Hope it helps! Peace, Brian : I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. : : I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is : any different then eating it during the day..?? : : I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that : extra 5. : : The theory is that your metabolism is slowest when you sleep. Therefore, : the food isn’t "burned" right away–it’s stored as fat. By comparison, : you have all day to burn off what you had for breakfast. : : People like Bob "Make the Connection" Greene have cited anecdotal : evidence of people switching to a strategy of not eating 3 or so hours : before bed, and suddenly losing pounds (same amount of calories all day, : just shifted earlier). I have not seen anything about any scientific : study of this phenomenon, but would be curious to know if anyone else has. : : On the other hand, there are people who think that’s a load of bunk. : Calories are calories, they claim, and the difference in metabolism is : not great enough to make a significant difference. I believe Bill Rodgers : cites an actual study that backs this up in one of his books. : : Personally, I don’t know for sure, but I’m leaning toward "load of bunk". : It just sounds like an Urban Legend to me. But hey, I’m open to : persuasion. : : Really though, a double-serving of Cap’n Crunch a day is about 2100 : calories a week, no matter when you eat it. You could probably lose those : 5 pounds in a couple of months just by eliminating that. : :  - Jeff

Response:

I find the idea a little bizarre. It’s true that water fills you up, but only as long as there’s water in the stomach. So, short of drinking glass after glass… When I’m dehydrated, what I feel is fatigue, not hunger. In those moments it’s not clear whether I (1) have low glycemia (not literally hypo-, just a bit low) or (2) need tea or coffee or (3) need water. I have noticed that sometimes water does the trick. But as I said, I do not feel hunger in those moments. Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, I’ve never understood this.  I hear a lot of nutritionist say sometimes when you feel hungry, you’re actually thirsty.  I think at 43 years old I know when I’m hungry and when I’m thirsty.  I’ve tried drinking water when I’m hungry and surprise!  I’m still hungry. Is there anything more to support this theory? Thanks. Portia Also, drink lots of water…it will help fill you up. Plus sometimes when we think we are hungry we are actually thirsty. I can see how eating before bed will put weight on you, but at night I’m often absolutely starving for something to eat. Does anyone have any tips on how not to eat at that time? Thanks, Michael As a former "fatty," (I once weighed 240 pds and now weigh 174- through changing my eating patterns/type and exercise.  I now teach weight loss seminars with some success.), I can absolutely attest to the difference it makes when I go to bed a bit hungry.  Sorry about not citing science on this.  But I’ve found that when my levels of activity are high (I’m training for a triathlon right now), I need to eat a bit at night or risk losing too much weight.  When they are lower for a period of time, I don’t eat at night so as to avoid weight gain.  Seriously- the only variable to balance out the activity is whether I eat at night, how much and how late. How about trying this: eat a predetermined amount of Capn’Crunch (say, 1 cup) without milk- as a snack- no more than 2 hours before bed.  Try it for one week, yet maintain all your other activity/diet levels.  See if it makes a difference.  Yes- you’ll be changing quantity as well as timing. But the two together should make a difference in no time. Hope it helps! Peace, Brian : I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. : : I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is : any different then eating it during the day..?? : : I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that : extra 5. : : The theory is that your metabolism is slowest when you sleep. Therefore, : the food isn’t "burned" right away–it’s stored as fat. By comparison, : you have all day to burn off what you had for breakfast. : : People like Bob "Make the Connection" Greene have cited anecdotal : evidence of people switching to a strategy of not eating 3 or so hours : before bed, and suddenly losing pounds (same amount of calories all day, : just shifted earlier). I have not seen anything about any scientific : study of this phenomenon, but would be curious to know if anyone else has. : : On the other hand, there are people who think that’s a load of bunk. : Calories are calories, they claim, and the difference in metabolism is : not great enough to make a significant difference. I believe Bill Rodgers : cites an actual study that backs this up in one of his books. : : Personally, I don’t know for sure, but I’m leaning toward "load of bunk". : It just sounds like an Urban Legend to me. But hey, I’m open to : persuasion. : : Really though, a double-serving of Cap’n Crunch a day is about 2100 : calories a week, no matter when you eat it. You could probably lose those : 5 pounds in a couple of months just by eliminating that. : :  - Jeff

– Daniel Pierre-Antoine Department of Political Science Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa ON K1S 5B6 Tel.: (613) 749-9118 Fax : (613) 520-4064

Response:

I’m like you. The easiest thing to do is to eat a bit less at supper time and keep 200cal worth of food for later. I have trouble falling asleep if I’m hungry. That’s what I do in the morning too. I eat half of my breakfast at 7:30 and the other half at 9:30-9:45. Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can see how eating before bed will put weight on you, but at night I’m often absolutely starving for something to eat. Does anyone have any tips on how not to eat at that time? Thanks, Michael

Response:

yummy  capNcrunch! i did that for about 2 months last winter, i just "craved it"  but there came a time that i realized that all the sugar,  was the problem…. salution i started eating raisin bran, or rice chex still on the sugary side, but i felt, looked and ran much better.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..?? I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that extra 5.

Response:

Get away from the kitchen and do something to take your mind off of it.  Go for a walk, surf the internet, call a friend.  Also, drink lots of water…it will help fill you up. Plus sometimes when we think we are hungry we are actually thirsty.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can see how eating before bed will put weight on you, but at night I’m often absolutely starving for something to eat. Does anyone have any tips on how not to eat at that time? Thanks, Michael As a former "fatty," (I once weighed 240 pds and now weigh 174- through changing my eating patterns/type and exercise.  I now teach weight loss seminars with some success.), I can absolutely attest to the difference it makes when I go to bed a bit hungry.  Sorry about not citing science on this.  But I’ve found that when my levels of activity are high (I’m training for a triathlon right now), I need to eat a bit at night or risk losing too much weight.  When they are lower for a period of time, I don’t eat at night so as to avoid weight gain.  Seriously- the only variable to balance out the activity is whether I eat at night, how much and how late. How about trying this: eat a predetermined amount of Capn’Crunch (say, 1 cup) without milk- as a snack- no more than 2 hours before bed.  Try it for one week, yet maintain all your other activity/diet levels.  See if it makes a difference.  Yes- you’ll be changing quantity as well as timing.  But the two together should make a difference in no time. Hope it helps! Peace, Brian : I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. : : I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is : any different then eating it during the day..?? : : I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that : extra 5. : : The theory is that your metabolism is slowest when you sleep. Therefore, : the food isn’t "burned" right away–it’s stored as fat. By comparison, : you have all day to burn off what you had for breakfast. : : People like Bob "Make the Connection" Greene have cited anecdotal : evidence of people switching to a strategy of not eating 3 or so hours : before bed, and suddenly losing pounds (same amount of calories all day, : just shifted earlier). I have not seen anything about any scientific : study of this phenomenon, but would be curious to know if anyone else has. : : On the other hand, there are people who think that’s a load of bunk. : Calories are calories, they claim, and the difference in metabolism is : not great enough to make a significant difference. I believe Bill Rodgers : cites an actual study that backs this up in one of his books. : : Personally, I don’t know for sure, but I’m leaning toward "load of bunk". : It just sounds like an Urban Legend to me. But hey, I’m open to : persuasion. : : Really though, a double-serving of Cap’n Crunch a day is about 2100 : calories a week, no matter when you eat it. You could probably lose those : 5 pounds in a couple of months just by eliminating that. : :  - Jeff

Response:

–On Friday, June 15, 2001 8:41 AM -0700 Michael I can see how eating before bed will put weight on you, but at night I’m often absolutely starving for something to eat. Does anyone have any tips on how not to eat at that time?

If you’re legitimately hungry, you should eat. So ask yourself if you really are hungry, or if you’re feeding something else, like boredom or anxiety. If you’re truly hungry, eat something that isn’t so sugar laden and calorie intensive as a junk food cereal. Like: A plain non-fat yogurt (or some lo-fat frozen yogurt) A carrot or two A big glass of skim milk Mmmmm, oatmeal Fruit If you’re in a dairy mood at that time of day, you’d probably find the lower fat/lower sugar dairy products the most satisfying, and you — like almost everyone else — could probably use the calcium anyway. And may I say: "Duh!" Ever bothered to read the label on the Crunch box? How may calories per serving? Do you really eat just one serving, or do you load up a big bowl and then go back for more? And what kind of milk are you using? Whole? Try to be aware of the quality of food you eat, rather than just the quantity.

Response:

I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..?? I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that extra 5.

The theory is that your metabolism is slowest when you sleep. Therefore, the food isn’t "burned" right away–it’s stored as fat. By comparison, you have all day to burn off what you had for breakfast. People like Bob "Make the Connection" Greene have cited anecdotal evidence of people switching to a strategy of not eating 3 or so hours before bed, and suddenly losing pounds (same amount of calories all day, just shifted earlier). I have not seen anything about any scientific study of this phenomenon, but would be curious to know if anyone else has. On the other hand, there are people who think that’s a load of bunk. Calories are calories, they claim, and the difference in metabolism is not great enough to make a significant difference. I believe Bill Rodgers cites an actual study that backs this up in one of his books. Personally, I don’t know for sure, but I’m leaning toward "load of bunk". It just sounds like an Urban Legend to me. But hey, I’m open to persuasion. Really though, a double-serving of Cap’n Crunch a day is about 2100 calories a week, no matter when you eat it. You could probably lose those 5 pounds in a couple of months just by eliminating that.  - Jeff

Response:

I can see how eating before bed will put weight on you, but at night I’m often absolutely starving for something to eat. Does anyone have any tips on how not to eat at that time? Thanks, Michael

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a former "fatty," (I once weighed 240 pds and now weigh 174- through changing my eating patterns/type and exercise.  I now teach weight loss seminars with some success.), I can absolutely attest to the difference it makes when I go to bed a bit hungry.  Sorry about not citing science on this.  But I’ve found that when my levels of activity are high (I’m training for a triathlon right now), I need to eat a bit at night or risk losing too much weight.  When they are lower for a period of time, I don’t eat at night so as to avoid weight gain.  Seriously- the only variable to balance out the activity is whether I eat at night, how much and how late. How about trying this: eat a predetermined amount of Capn’Crunch (say, 1 cup) without milk- as a snack- no more than 2 hours before bed.  Try it for one week, yet maintain all your other activity/diet levels.  See if it makes a difference.  Yes- you’ll be changing quantity as well as timing.  But the two together should make a difference in no time. Hope it helps! Peace, Brian : I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. : : I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is : any different then eating it during the day..?? : : I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that : extra 5. : : The theory is that your metabolism is slowest when you sleep. Therefore, : the food isn’t "burned" right away–it’s stored as fat. By comparison, : you have all day to burn off what you had for breakfast. : : People like Bob "Make the Connection" Greene have cited anecdotal : evidence of people switching to a strategy of not eating 3 or so hours : before bed, and suddenly losing pounds (same amount of calories all day, : just shifted earlier). I have not seen anything about any scientific : study of this phenomenon, but would be curious to know if anyone else has. : : On the other hand, there are people who think that’s a load of bunk. : Calories are calories, they claim, and the difference in metabolism is : not great enough to make a significant difference. I believe Bill Rodgers : cites an actual study that backs this up in one of his books. : : Personally, I don’t know for sure, but I’m leaning toward "load of bunk". : It just sounds like an Urban Legend to me. But hey, I’m open to : persuasion. : : Really though, a double-serving of Cap’n Crunch a day is about 2100 : calories a week, no matter when you eat it. You could probably lose those : 5 pounds in a couple of months just by eliminating that. : :  - Jeff

Response:

As a former "fatty," (I once weighed 240 pds and now weigh 174- through changing my eating patterns/type and exercise.  I now teach weight loss seminars with some success.), I can absolutely attest to the difference it makes when I go to bed a bit hungry.  Sorry about not citing science on this.  But I’ve found that when my levels of activity are high (I’m training for a triathlon right now), I need to eat a bit at night or risk losing too much weight.  When they are lower for a period of time, I don’t eat at night so as to avoid weight gain.  Seriously- the only variable to balance out the activity is whether I eat at night, how much and how late. How about trying this: eat a predetermined amount of Capn’Crunch (say, 1 cup) without milk- as a snack- no more than 2 hours before bed.  Try it for one week, yet maintain all your other activity/diet levels.  See if it makes a difference.  Yes- you’ll be changing quantity as well as timing.  But the two together should make a difference in no time. Hope it helps! Peace, Brian

: I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. : : I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is : any different then eating it during the day..?? : : I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that : extra 5. : : The theory is that your metabolism is slowest when you sleep. Therefore, : the food isn’t "burned" right away–it’s stored as fat. By comparison, : you have all day to burn off what you had for breakfast. : : People like Bob "Make the Connection" Greene have cited anecdotal : evidence of people switching to a strategy of not eating 3 or so hours : before bed, and suddenly losing pounds (same amount of calories all day, : just shifted earlier). I have not seen anything about any scientific : study of this phenomenon, but would be curious to know if anyone else has. : : On the other hand, there are people who think that’s a load of bunk. : Calories are calories, they claim, and the difference in metabolism is : not great enough to make a significant difference. I believe Bill Rodgers : cites an actual study that backs this up in one of his books. : : Personally, I don’t know for sure, but I’m leaning toward "load of bunk". : It just sounds like an Urban Legend to me. But hey, I’m open to : persuasion. : : Really though, a double-serving of Cap’n Crunch a day is about 2100 : calories a week, no matter when you eat it. You could probably lose those : 5 pounds in a couple of months just by eliminating that. : :  - Jeff

Response:

I usually eat me a big bowl of CapNCrunch right before I go to bed. I know this isn’t good, but what I don’t get is why eating it at night is any different then eating it during the day..?? I run 30 miles a week, lift weights, but I can’t seem to get rid of that extra 5.

Response:

Question:

What URL do you use to get to this group?  I am using Deja.com is there a better way? Before you buy.

Response:

find out if your ISP has new feed. if so it should just be NEWS.ISPNAME.COM etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What URL do you use to get to this group?  I am using Deja.com is there a better way? Before you buy.

Response:

I use earthlink.  Does that tell you anything?  I don’t see any references to news on pull down menus. Before you buy.

Response:

have defined your default newsfeed server eg news.ispname.com Windows + IE is one of them. eg nominated in IE (normally Outlook Express) to launch at the specified newsgroup. You can use the url from the browser itself or as a shortcut eg from your desktop etc etc. I know it works with Win + IE using Outlook Express, but can’t vouch for it when other newsreaders are used. — MB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What URL do you use to get to this group?  I am using Deja.com is there a better way? Before you buy.

Response:

Got it using IE and OE.  Much better.  Deja had a lot of overhead. Appreciate it.

you have defined your default newsfeed server eg news.ispname.com Windows + IE is one of them. eg nominated in IE (normally Outlook Express) to launch at the specified newsgroup. You can use the url from the browser itself or as a shortcut eg from your desktop etc etc. I know it works with Win + IE using Outlook Express, but can’t vouch for it when other newsreaders are used. — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What URL do you use to get to this group?  I am using Deja.com is there a better way? Before you buy.

Response:

Just be careful with OE. It’s a virus writers dream… Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got it using IE and OE.  Much better.  Deja had a lot of overhead. Appreciate it. you have defined your default newsfeed server eg news.ispname.com Windows + IE is one of them. eg nominated in IE (normally Outlook Express) to launch at the specified newsgroup. You can use the url from the browser itself or as a shortcut eg from your desktop etc etc. I know it works with Win + IE using Outlook Express, but can’t vouch for it when other newsreaders are used. — MB. What URL do you use to get to this group?  I am using Deja.com is there a better way? Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Now Mike… I was just trying to clear a path through the geese and their, uhhh, goose trails, for the rest of you. Actually, when I’m wearing my wetsuit is the only time I can manage more than a couple of strokes of fly. — Stacy Hills Reston, VA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : use fly in a race, unless you are seriously weird, but if you freestyle gets You’ve never seen Stacy Hills try to clear out all those around him at the swim start  :-)

Response:

I’ve traveled in swimming circles for a good bit of my life.  Another lament is how many swimmers are good at ONLY fly, back, & free.  Most of the rest seem to be ONLY competitive in breastroke.  It makes a great IMer even more rare than a good breastroker.

Count me in after a fashion.  I can do back, fly and free with some semblance of proficiency, but my breast stroke is absolutely dreadful. After watching me try over and over and over for about 20 minutes, once, a coach said (as others have pointed out), "some folks just can’t do the breast stroke." Jimmy "Just Can’t Do the Kick" Strebler

Response:

: use fly in a race, unless you are seriously weird, but if you freestyle gets You’ve never seen Stacy Hills try to clear out all those around him at the swim start  :-)

Response:

Ever watch a frog swim in a pond?  Sure looks like breaststroke to me, and some of those suckers can move! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s the freaky breaststrokers who do those successive standing long jumps. Real sharks don’t do that kick thing. Not even a real goldfish would be caught dead bobbing around like that. Besides, I can’t do that stroke to save my life, even though I practice it as much as I do normal strokes.

Response:

<snip i look at it this way… frestyle is like running, breaststroke is like walking, backstroke is like running backwards, and butterfly is like doing successive standing long jumps until you can’t lift your legs anymore  damn freaks

True enough, but doing butterfly in training does exceptional things to you fitness and strength and improves your freestyle out of sight.  You’d never use fly in a race, unless you are seriously weird, but if you freestyle gets stronger from doing it in training….. why not? Andy

Response:

Our swimming club coach has had the entire squad (all U18 swimmers) doing butterfly as an adjunct to their freestyle for 9 years that I’m aware of, because in his words: "the flexibility and strength required to do butterfly with good form, exceeds the ranges most swimmers require to do freestyle with good form".  My understanding of what he is trying to achieve here, is to get his swimmers to enhance their flexibility and strength to the point where correct form in their freestyle is not impeded by a lack of either. The key point is ‘correct form’.  There are a lot of swimmers who swim quickly but expend a lot more effort than necessary because of bad form. Our coaches theory is to keep our kids swimming as quickly or quicker, with less effort and for longer periods.  The flexibility, particularly in the shoulders, manifests itself in fewer injury problems. To me, it appears to be working.  My daughter keeps improving and has not experienced any difficulties with shoulder injuries.  He is a qualified swimming coach and I am not, so I am happy to allow him to use whatever methods he deems appropriate to get the best out of the squad. Cheers, Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – haven’t heard this before… in my 15 years of competitive swimming, there have been only two reasons for me to train butterfly: 1) to improve my butterfly (for IM) and 2) as punishment.  Is there something my coaches knew, but never told me??? i was first and foremost a distance freestyler and second a distance IMer… the pure distance freestylers almost never trained fly.  there was the occasional IM set for the entire team, but i can’t recall the distance swimmers ever training butterfly (and this was with upwards of 30 hrs/week in the pool).  is this something new in the past 5 yrs?  we usually concentrated on freestyle for speedwork, endurance work, and skill work (technique)… i’m still of the belief that the most effective use of training time for improving freestyle is freestyle.  please don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to discredit or argue, i’d really be interested in knowing if this is an accepted practice for improving endurance freestyle… i am bored to death with my pool training, and would love to hear something new and exciting. True enough, but doing butterfly in training does exceptional things to you fitness and strength and improves your freestyle out of sight.  You’d never use fly in a race, unless you are seriously weird, but if you freestyle gets stronger from doing it in training….. why not? Andy

Response:

Nope. Butterfly rocks. Breaststroke sucks. Breaststrokers are born, not made. It requires abnormal ankles.

I agree with Ruth, having been around young swimmers for the last 5 years. Ask ant good breaststroker and they will be able to touch their left shoulder with their right toe. They do it all the time around the pool to gross people out. And if you think butterfly isn’t a distance event……Last year at the Swim Around Key West, Gail Rice, perennial favorite, was supporting her daughter Sarah. Just for the "fun" of it she swam the whole course the day before butterfly,, 12.5 MILES ! 5 hours 45 minutes…never broke stroke. Al Kormesser

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Al, is this true??? Or are you kidding? "whole course the day before | butterfly,, 12.5 MILES ! 5 hours 45 minutes…never broke stroke" Phil

| | Nope. Butterfly rocks. Breaststroke sucks. | Breaststrokers are born, not made. It requires abnormal ankles. | | I agree with Ruth, having been around young swimmers for the last 5 years. Ask | ant good breaststroker and they will be able to touch their left shoulder with | their right toe. They do it all the time around the pool to gross people out. | And if you think butterfly isn’t a distance event……Last year at the Swim | Around Key West, Gail Rice, perennial favorite, was supporting her daughter | Sarah. Just for the "fun" of it she swam the whole course the day before | butterfly,, 12.5 MILES ! 5 hours 45 minutes…never broke stroke. | Al Kormesser

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Nope. Butterfly rocks. Breaststroke sucks. Breaststrokers are born, not made. It requires abnormal ankles. I agree with Ruth, having been around young swimmers for the last 5 years. Ask ant good breaststroker and they will be able to touch their left shoulder with their right toe. They do it all the time around the pool to gross people out. And if you think butterfly isn’t a distance event……Last year at the Swim Around Key West, Gail Rice, perennial favorite, was supporting her daughter Sarah. Just for the "fun" of it she swam the whole course the day before butterfly,, 12.5 MILES ! 5 hours 45 minutes…never broke stroke. Al Kormesser

that is amazing… 1:35/100yds fly for nearly 6 hours?!  but how fast does she swim free??? butterfly IS a fast stroke, and there are a few who can do it efficiently… should triathletes train butterfly though? i’m not entirely sold on it… increasing flexibility is a worthy goal, but there are many ways to increase flexibility… do any college teams train their distance swimmers with fly??? i’d definitely be interested in the results(always looking for something new), and personally don’t trust any findings from age group teams… most age groupers improve regardless of the training regimen. would training fly help those us of that have plateaud (or even started to decline and pool time for most is oh so precious… mixing things up does help keep things interesting though.  btw… you don’t need to be a genetic freak to be good at breast stroke; i can barely get my right foot above my left hip, but i can still do repeat 100m breastroke on the 1:40… albeit not for 6 hours! cheers! -d

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i look at it this way… frestyle is like running, breaststroke is like walking, backstroke is like running backwards, and butterfly is like doing successive standing long jumps until you can’t lift your legs anymore  damn freaks

It’s the freaky breaststrokers who do those successive standing long jumps. Real sharks don’t do that kick thing. Not even a real goldfish would be caught dead bobbing around like that. Besides, I can’t do that stroke to save my life, even though I practice it as much as I do normal strokes. Ruth Kazez

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haven’t heard this before… in my 15 years of competitive swimming, there have been only two reasons for me to train butterfly: 1) to improve my butterfly (for IM) and 2) as punishment.  Is there something my coaches knew, but never told me??? i was first and foremost a distance freestyler and second a distance IMer… the pure distance freestylers almost never trained fly.  there was the occasional IM set for the entire team, but i can’t recall the distance swimmers ever training butterfly (and this was with upwards of 30 hrs/week in the pool).  is this something new in the past 5 yrs?  we usually concentrated on freestyle for speedwork, endurance work, and skill work (technique)… i’m still of the belief that the most effective use of training time for improving freestyle is freestyle.  please don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to discredit or argue, i’d really be interested in knowing if this is an accepted practice for improving endurance freestyle… i am bored to death with my pool training, and would love to hear something new and exciting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – True enough, but doing butterfly in training does exceptional things to you fitness and strength and improves your freestyle out of sight.  You’d never use fly in a race, unless you are seriously weird, but if you freestyle gets stronger from doing it in training….. why not? Andy

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The problem with breaststroke is the "braking" action that occurs during the pulling back of the legs.  Good breaststrokers can maintain a continual forward motion and therefore maintain momentum.  This is best emphasized by doing the breast stroke kicking drill. That is kicking breaststroke on your back. If your legs (knees) are coming out of the water that means they are braking your streamline and  momentum. Just look at the ceiling or the lane lines and if you are continuously stooping and starting this is the main problem. Also most people doing breaststroke use to much hands. I mean pulling back to far. The hands should stay in front of you. There are advanced breaststroke sprint techniques for pool swimmers that include over the water recovery of the arms but they are really of no use in extended swims. It has been said ( I don’t really know if its true but its a good excuse ) that either your a breaststroker or not.  I totally agree with posts here already that it is essential just to diversify you swim and use for times of trouble etc.  I am not a breaststroker and because of that with coaching I have come to recognize the common faults which others as well as myself make. I am only relaying what I have learned from my coach Stan, see this link for his bio… http://www.ancientmariners.org/coach.htm Good luck…

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It has been said ( I don’t really know if its true but its a good excuse ) that either your a breaststroker or not.

I’ve traveled in swimming circles for a good bit of my life.  Another lament is how many swimmers are good at ONLY fly, back, & free.  Most of the rest seem to be ONLY competitive in breastroke.  It makes a great IMer even more rare than a good breastroker. Rsquared "who never ‘got’ the breastroke" Before you buy.

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Damnit! That’s my Tri career finished. I have raced and trained at all distances for 5 years without being able to do the breast stroke only to read here that it’s akin to not being able to fix a flat on my bike, and who ever walks further than from the finish line than to the showers? ))) Phil

| The breast stroke is a must (IMHO) for any open water swimmer. You may have | been doing some hardass repets at that swim practice, but it can be done at a | nice easy pace that would allow for complete rest were it neccessary. I could | not imagine having to swim, let’s say, from a sinking boat three miles offshore | through chop and currents ONLY relying on freestyle. | Not being able to do the breaststroke (or sidestroke) as an alternative to | freestyle is like riding your bike without being able to change a flat, or | running without EVER having the option of walking. | | Ken

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It’s gotta be you. I get bagged after a mere 200m of free, waterlogged after only 100 back, and I’m lucky if I can manage 25m of fly, huge splashes all the way, the most inefficient stroke devised yet, IMHO, but I can do breaststroke until the cows come home.  It doesn’t matter the distance, 750m, 1500m, whatever, I can maintain a decent pace for the whole leg, and have plenty of energy left for the rest of it. Thanx…PSB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gentle readers – Last night my swim group did breast stroke lessons for the first time since I’ve been attending.  Now I thought the bs looked easy, and figured I was just shy on some technique that would be easy to pick up. An hour later I was completely knackered after doing maybe 150m of the damned thing; my knees hurt, my calves cramped, and my pecs ached.  And everyone was tired of describing it the 1,493 different ways they’d been trying to. Is there REALLY any reason to learn this torture?  Am I just a slow learner?  Did all my snickering jokes about "breast stroke" (heh heh) land me in some karma hell? Unrepentant – johnwalt

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I can do breaststroke until the cows come home.  It doesn’t matter the distance, 750m, 1500m, whatever, I can maintain a decent pace

The first English channel crossings where with breaststroke. 55 degrees is very cold without a wetsuit.

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Gentle readers –

my knees hurt, As I’ve grown older (& less flexible?) I’ve found breaststroke plays havoc with my cartlidges. Beware! Greg Banner

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learner?  Did all my snickering jokes about "breast stroke" (heh heh) land me in some karma hell?

Heh, heh, heh, you said "breast!" heh, heh, heh.

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don’t worry about it… you don’t NEED breastroke, if you NEED an alternative to freestyle, you’re not competing to win anyway; treading water will suffice (just don’t get run over . and i must correct you on one point… breastroke isn’t that bad… butterfly sucks. every swimmer has a weakest stroke… those without ankle and knee flexibility struggle with breastroke, those without good upper body strength suck at fly (that’s me).  luckily, in the IM, you get a dive with fly, and its the first stroke… playin’ catchup the rest of the way – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gentle readers – Last night my swim group did breast stroke lessons for the first time since I’ve been attending.  Now I thought the bs looked easy, and figured I was just shy on some technique that would be easy to pick up. An hour later I was completely knackered after doing maybe 150m of the damned thing; my knees hurt, my calves cramped, and my pecs ached.  And everyone was tired of describing it the 1,493 different ways they’d been trying to. Is there REALLY any reason to learn this torture?  Am I just a slow learner?  Did all my snickering jokes about "breast stroke" (heh heh) land me in some karma hell? Unrepentant – johnwalt

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and i must correct you on one point… breastroke isn’t that bad… butterfly sucks.

Nope. Butterfly rocks. Breaststroke sucks. Breaststrokers are born, not made. It requires abnormal ankles. Ruth "they laugh when I get to lap 3" Kazez

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and i must correct you on one point… breastroke isn’t that bad… butterfly sucks. Nope. Butterfly rocks. Breaststroke sucks. Breaststrokers are born, not made. It requires abnormal ankles. Ruth "they laugh when I get to lap 3" Kazez

come on now! we all know freestyle is, by far, the best stroke… especially considering this is a triathlon ng (note that VERY few people swim butterfly to take a break from freestyle during a tri) i look at it this way… frestyle is like running, breaststroke is like walking, backstroke is like running backwards, and butterfly is like doing successive standing long jumps until you can’t lift your legs anymore  damn freaks

Response:

The breast stroke is a must (IMHO) for any open water swimmer. You may have been doing some hardass repets at that swim practice, but it can be done at a nice easy pace that would allow for complete rest were it neccessary. I could not imagine having to swim, let’s say, from a sinking boat three miles offshore through chop and currents ONLY relying on freestyle. Not being able to do the breaststroke (or sidestroke) as an alternative to freestyle is like riding your bike without being able to change a flat, or running without EVER having the option of walking. Ken

The breastroke is a funny stroke. The modern breast stoke (wave and its variations) at race pace is absolutely brutal. But an old fashioned easy pace breastroke is, indeed, a way to get a little rest while still going forward. — Tom Morley                         |   http://www.math.gatech.edu/~morley |  Tao Te Ching, Chapter 28 ICQ: 24798603                      |    

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Gentle readers – Last night my swim group did breast stroke lessons for the first time since I’ve been attending.  Now I thought the bs looked easy, and figured I was just shy on some technique that would be easy to pick up. An hour later I was completely knackered after doing maybe 150m of the damned thing; my knees hurt, my calves cramped, and my pecs ached.  And everyone was tired of describing it the 1,493 different ways they’d been trying to. Is there REALLY any reason to learn this torture?  Am I just a slow learner?  Did all my snickering jokes about "breast stroke" (heh heh) land me in some karma hell? Unrepentant – johnwalt

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I grew up doing the breast stroke, so for me it is natural.  I find that in my racing (and even in training) when I get tired of freestyle, I always revert to the breast stroke.  For me, it is relaxing, allowing me to catch my breath and also take a good look around.  I also find that my breast stroke is fast enough to keep up with the slower freestyle swimmers, so I don’t lose too much. So, for me, breast stroke is like walking during the run… it may not be fast, but it allows me to finish. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gentle readers – Last night my swim group did breast stroke lessons for the first time since I’ve been attending.  Now I thought the bs looked easy, and figured I was just shy on some technique that would be easy to pick up. An hour later I was completely knackered after doing maybe 150m of the damned thing; my knees hurt, my calves cramped, and my pecs ached.  And everyone was tired of describing it the 1,493 different ways they’d been trying to. Is there REALLY any reason to learn this torture?  Am I just a slow learner?  Did all my snickering jokes about "breast stroke" (heh heh) land me in some karma hell? Unrepentant – johnwalt

Response:

The breast stroke is a must (IMHO) for any open water swimmer. You may have been doing some hardass repets at that swim practice, but it can be done at a nice easy pace that would allow for complete rest were it neccessary. I could not imagine having to swim, let’s say, from a sinking boat three miles offshore through chop and currents ONLY relying on freestyle. Not being able to do the breaststroke (or sidestroke) as an alternative to freestyle is like riding your bike without being able to change a flat, or running without EVER having the option of walking. Ken

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Question:

Hi, I started running and getting in shape this past Januray (lost 25 pounds).  I have really gotten addicted to running and ran my first 5K two months ago.  I have been training for a duatholon (2M run 10M bike 2M run) until earlier this week when pains in my chest forced me to delay training. My doctor said it was nothing and it happened b/c I over trained. Well, I still want to run in a duatholon.  My old training regimen was to run 2 miles, bike 10 miles, and then run another 2 miles.  I know that is not the proper way to train.  Does anyone have any training advice, or point me in the right direction to get training programs, schedules, and courses? Thanks Much, -Gary Peterson

Response:

Well, I still want to run in a duatholon.  My old training regimen was to run 2 miles, bike 10 miles, and then run another 2 miles.  I know that is not the proper way to train.  Does anyone have any training advice, or point me in the right direction to get training programs, schedules, and courses?

Actually, I think that your training regime of a 2Mi Run/ 10 Mi Bike/ 2 Mi run is a good training method for a duathlon.  Training this way gets your body used to the switches from between the sports, which is what occurs during an actual duathlon or triathlon.  I have read that World Champion Chris Mc Cormack and former champ Miles Stewart train by doing a full triathlon nearly every training day.  Of course doing individual runs or bikes is fine too, especially if you are training in a group.  As far as the chest pains go, take your time improving; don’t make every workout a race and don’t expect to become a champion overnight! Good Luck Chris

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One thing I might suggest is that you train longer distances (than the distances in the race).  So for the duathlon you said, you might train 2.5 miles, 13 miles, 2.5 miles.  You don’t have to train them at race pace, but this allows your body to adjust to the strain.  Plus, during the race you know that you can definitely do the distance and more. -Kendall

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Hi Gary, My advice will differ a bit from the other replies: in fact, according to my expierience and the advices given to me by world class duathletes and coach, training for a race is long way to go, with several steps. That is why your training now depends upon the date of the event, and your objective for that race and the time you can/want to spend for your training. The common rules that apply are the following: – Increase intensity in a progressive way: you mist first set a base for all the seaon (because if you happen to take part to a race, you will get addicted to Duathlon and want to race more and more). This is done with long session at relatively low intensity. – You must train so that each session is a specific work (for both bike and run). Bike: You must combine velocity and musculation bike sessions (progressive musculation). Velocity will help you go faster with less pain (especially when climbing), and musculation on the bike help use more power. Then add a cool and a long session in your week. The top quality velocity sessions are made on a roller because they allow you to control the time. Example: Velocity: 3 * 4 * 3′, 110 r/min, rest period 1 = 2′, rest period 2 = 5′. 20′ warm up, 15′ cool down. I cannot tell you what "resistance" you can use. The goal is that it is a "hard velocity session". You will not that you must increase this resistance. Up to you to change the format of the exercise. You should not spend more than 1.5 hour for the total session. Muscu: Begining: 20′-30′ warm up, 10′ 39×15, 10′ 39×14, 10′ 39×13 and back, + cool down. Confirmed: same warm up, 2 hours bike session, 1 hour with the 52/53 (not the 39) whatever the road. (This is the intensity progession) You must know what your body is ready to support, and the begining example may be a bit easy for you. It is important to have the velocity separated from the muscu. Ex: Monday, velocity, Thursday, muscu.   Run: Combine long sessions: cool, fart leck, hard and hilly, specific exercises at the beginning (exercises are very important for the technical and efficiency aspects of the run), replace the exercises with the speed training (IT) You must be aware that the combination must be made with the bike sessions so that you do not have a speed training run and a high intensity bike session the same day or the session after. The Cool running session can be planned afetr a Rest day, the cool bike the day afetr speed running. Keep in mind to listen to your body, take time for the rest and have a long time for stretching each day, to prevent from muscles and tendons pain, and have a faster recovery. You should not train on your 2.5/10/2.5. running 2.5, biking 10 after and re-running 2.5. You can include when you feel ready enough (for your first preparation races if any) to include chain training: shorter distances than the race. For instance, just chain up 1K (and not 1M) – 3/5K -1 K – 3/5K – 1K – 3/5K – 1K Increase the reps (and the distances a bit) for longer distance events. Ok? Have a good time training, work hard if you wish but keep running and biking for the pleasure. Good luck for the race and keep me posted.         Olivier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I started running and getting in shape this past Januray (lost 25 pounds).  I have really gotten addicted to running and ran my first 5K two months ago.  I have been training for a duatholon (2M run 10M bike 2M run) until earlier this week when pains in my chest forced me to delay training. My doctor said it was nothing and it happened b/c I over trained. Well, I still want to run in a duatholon.  My old training regimen was to run 2 miles, bike 10 miles, and then run another 2 miles.  I know that is not the proper way to train.  Does anyone have any training advice, or point me in the right direction to get training programs, schedules, and courses? Thanks Much, -Gary Peterson

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Question:

Hi there,   I live in Alberta and planning on having a competing summer vacation.   So to speak.  And I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any triathlons this summer between say last week of June and first couple of weeks of July.  Or even say last week of Auguest.  Heck I would be most appreciated of a schedule for BC or even in Washington(state), Montana or Oregon.  I would appreciate any help.  Thanks Daniel

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DA=Hi there,   =  I live in Alberta and planning on having a competing summer vacation.   =So to speak.  And I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any   =triathlons this summer between say last week of June and first couple of   =weeks of July.  Or even say last week of Auguest.  Heck I would be most   =appreciated of a schedule for BC or even in Washington(state), Montana or   =Oregon.  I would appreciate any help.  Thanks Daniel Don’t miss the Sri Chinmoy Triathlon in Victoria on the August long weekend.  Its Canada’s oldest triathlon, and has a 1.6k lake swim, 35k ride over rolling hills and a great 10k trail run.  Plus, the volunteers and organization are excellent. My favourite race.                                                         Don Devenney —  * SLMR 2.1a * I’m in shape … round’s a shape isn’t it?

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m getting ready to do IMC ‘98 and have read several articles regarding weight training.  I have never lifted before as part of my training. This will be my first IM and an looking for some good advice.  I have done several 1/2’s and shorter over the last three years.  I don’t want to stop swimming/biking/running during the winter.  Does anyone have any training plans that incorporate weight training in preparing for an IM? Should I be doing it?  If so, how often? Thanks in advance, Mike 3sport attached here are articles of mark allen’s weight training beliefs and program.  hope this helps. —

I’ve seen Mark Allen’s Weight Training program on Outside Magaizines web page before and was wondering how effective it is? Matt

Response:

I’m getting ready to do IMC ‘98 and have read several articles regarding weight training.  I have never lifted before as part of my training.   This will be my first IM and an looking for some good advice.  I have done several 1/2’s and shorter over the last three years.  I don’t want to stop swimming/biking/running during the winter.  Does anyone have any training plans that incorporate weight training in preparing for an IM?   Should I be doing it?  If so, how often? Thanks in advance, Mike 3sport

Response:

Does anyone have any training plans that incorporate

weight training in preparing for an IM?  Should I be doing it?  If so, how often? Mike, I have not done an Ironman distance.  And until now i have not done any weight training before.  But now i am following the training schedule in the book "Swim, Bike, Run" by Glenn Town and Todd Kearney.  They have you weight train three days a week during your base training, two days a week during intensity training,  and one day a week as "mainteance" during the peak and race training.   Now for the actual strength training part i am using the video "Strength Training for Triathletes" by Diane Buchta that features Mark Allen and PNF.  The video guides you thru 5 distinct phases 1.  Acclimation 2. Strenght/Endurance 3.  Power/Endurance 4. Peak Power and 5. Maintenance which correlates well with the "Swim, Bike, Run" book.  The video tells you exactly what exercies to do and in what order.  So it makes it relatively easy for folks like us that have never been in the gym before to pump iron. You might want to check out the video and see what you think.  IMHO it is a great guide.  If you have this feeling that you want to weight train but dont know where to start give the video a shot.  I purchased the video from Nytro.  I am not sure of their web site…but try www.nytro.com. Hope that helps. Rob

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i tried to respond to you directly but the address is undeliverable. check it and let me know kirk

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I will be nitpicky, but you did not stop ALL weight training, you just reduced and shifted. Also, many national and elite triathletes weight train–of course some have more time than we mere mortals do.  Weight training can help prevent injuries and correct imbalances that develop. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi.. I stopped all weight training…I do only pull-ups, dips, and crunches now. I feel a million times better and have more time too… Mike i tried to respond to you directly but the address is undeliverable. check it and let me know kirk I got your message.  You should be getting the email soon…  Please forward the undeliverable message that you got to me and I will investigate. Thanks

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i tried to respond to you directly but the address is undeliverable. check it and let me know kirk

I got your message.  You should be getting the email soon…  Please forward the undeliverable message that you got to me and I will investigate. Thanks

Response:

hi.. I stopped all weight training…I do only pull-ups, dips, and crunches now.  I feel a million times better and have more time too… Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i tried to respond to you directly but the address is undeliverable. check it and let me know kirk I got your message.  You should be getting the email soon…  Please forward the undeliverable message that you got to me and I will investigate. Thanks

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I’m getting ready to do IMC ‘98 and have read several articles regarding weight training.  I have never lifted before as part of my training. This will be my first IM and an looking for some good advice.  I have done several 1/2’s and shorter over the last three years.  I don’t want to stop swimming/biking/running during the winter.  Does anyone have any training plans that incorporate weight training in preparing for an IM? Should I be doing it?  If so, how often? Thanks in advance, Mike 3sport

attached here are articles of mark allen’s weight training beliefs and program.  hope this helps. — Agreements welcomed.  Constructive criticism considered.  Flames ignored. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5; name="allen-strength.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="allen-strength.txt" [HOME]                         [Sponsored by REI]  Fitness ‘97, February 1997  Strength  Because you’re not just getting bigger. You’re getting better.  Like many of us, Mark              [Image]  Allen used to think                            Are We        [Image]  that the gym was simply a rumpus room for      There Yet?  narcissists hopped up on protein shakes.       Two decades of  For more than a decade, even while winning     fitness  the Hawaii Ironman five times and the Nice     grail-seeking,  Triathlon–the world’s most prestigious        including a misstep  short-course event–ten consecutive years,     or two from the  Allen avoided strength training entirely.      master himself  Then came an event that, at least for a  top-flight professional athlete, could be  called traumatic: In January 1993, Mark        1993  Allen turned 35.                               Maybe it does, maybe                                                 it doesn’t: Mark  The chronological wake-up call caused          Allen adds  Allen to review his results from the           low-impact  previous few seasons–and to come to grips     plyometrics to his  with a harsh reality. His strength simply      training regimen,  wasn’t coming back after those long, lazy      then stops. "I think  winters the way it used to. The big clue       it was probably  was his speed, or lack thereof: While in       good," he says, "but  years past his times had steadily improved     I can only do so  over the course of the February-to-October     much."  season, he now found that he was  plateauing in early summer. Since he had       Citing low ratings,  tried a number of other remedies without       ABC drops the New  success, he suspected that the solution        York Marathon.  could be found in the weight room.                                                 Red-meat-eating,  Still, Allen found himself floundering.        weight-lifting Mark  He’d go to the gym, mess around with a few     Allen wins  dumbbells, and leave without any inkling       fifth-straight  of what he’d actually done or exactly why      Ironman in record  he’d done it. "I remember looking around       8:07:46.  the gym and thinking, ‘If I’m Mr. Ironman,  supposedly the fittest guy in the world,  and I don’t know what I’m doing in here,  then 95 percent of the other people don’t      1994  either.’ "                                     We really hope this                                                 doesn’t work: The  Allen sought counsel from Diane Buchta,        DaVinci Body Series,  who has also trained, among others,            a nude exercise  eight-time Ironman champion Paula              video for the  Newby-Fraser. Buchta quickly confirmed         "renaissance man of  Allen’s hunch, telling him that the loss       the 90’s," is  of lean muscle mass, a natural part of the     released.  aging process that kicks in around age 30,  was sabotaging his speed. She put him on a  program that involved performing ten core  exercises–lat pulldowns, bench presses,       1995  squats, leg extensions, leg curls, biceps      To Load or Not to  curls, triceps pushdowns, back extensions,     Load, Chapter Four:  dumbbell pullovers, and upright                Experts begin to  rows–twice a week. Given that Allen’s         suggest that a  focus was performance and not bulk, Buchta     low-fat,  notes that the routine was the same one        high-carbohydrate  she’d recommend for any recreational           diet may contribute  athlete. Its basic structure remains           to obesity.  constant throughout the 16-week cycle and  requires no more than about an hour and a      We sprint,  half per week. The program is, however,        therefore…? A  divided into four distinct phases, each        study of 17,300  defined by a specific goal and thus            Harvard graduates  employing a different strategy.                over a span of more                                                 than 20 years  Adaptation: Weeks 1-3                          indicates that only  The first part of the program is a             vigorous exercise,  high-rep, low-weight phase that serves to      and not nonvigorous  prepare joints and tendons for the harder      activity, reduced  work to come. For each exercise, use about     the risk of dying  60 percent of the maximum weight you can       during the study  lift, doing three sets of 12 repetitions,      period.  with 30 seconds of rest between sets.  Harking to his own experience, Allen says      After skipping the  the hardest part is to not dwell on the        race a year earlier  highs and lows of these early weeks. "At       to try marathoning,  first I thought I was doing great because,     Mark Allen wins his  well, I was sore," he recalls. But then,       sixth Ironman.  as his muscles grew accustomed to the  exercises, the soreness dissipated and all  he had to show for his effort was a  sluggishness that hampered his endurance       1996  work. "My initial euphoria," he says, "was     To Load or Not to  replaced with profound skepticism.             Load, Chapter Five:  Thankfully I stuck with the program            A spate of  anyway."                                       best-selling                                                 books-Dr. Atkins’  Endurance: Weeks 4-10                          New Diet Revolution,  The next training block is the weight-room     Healthy for Life,  equivalent of Allen’s long, slow               Protein Power, The  cardiovascular workouts. Here you’ll do 15     Zone-frown on  reps for each exercise, bumping up the         carbohydrates,  weight by 5 percent each week for the          touching off a  upper body and 10 percent for the lower        full-blown war of  body. With this increased weight, you’ll       words that continues  have to avoid the temptation to rush           to rage.  through the sets. In fact, Buchta  recommends that you contract the muscle on     Mark Allen retires  a two-count but take twice as long to          from racing, begins  relax it. "You’re most at risk for injury      drinking green tea;  when you’re lowering the weight," she          so far, thinks he’ll  explains. "That’s why you should take it       stick with both.  slow."  Power: Weeks 11-14  This third phase is where major strength gains occur, and as you might  imagine, it’s been known to spook an endurance athlete or two. "You  start to feel awkwardly bulky,” Allen admits. "Suddenly you’ve got two  more pounds of muscle mass on your body, and you feel like Arnold  Schwarzenegger. The first year I almost made the mistake of stopping the  program right here. But keep in mind that once you get past this phase,  the next one trims you back and hones the strength you’ve built." The  key to the power phase is to split your core exercises into two groups,  with one consisting of those that work your lats and triceps (lat  pulldowns, dumbbell pullovers, triceps pushdowns, and upright rows) and  the other made up of exercises that work your legs, chest, and biceps  (squats, leg extensions, leg curls, bench presses, biceps curls, and  back extensions). The idea is to "power" Group A on the first  day–increasing the weight an additional 20 to 30 percent, doing sets of  ten, eight, and then six repetitions (going to failure on the final rep  of each set), and allowing three to four minutes of recovery–while  running through the remaining exercises the same way you’ve been doing  them in the endurance phase. Then, on the other strength-training day,  you simply reverse the order, powering Group B exercises and doing A’s  in endurance fashion.  Chisel: Weeks 15-16  In the spirit of honesty, Allen will be                          [Image]  the first to admit that the cycle’s final  segment is poorly named. "It doesn’t tell you what the benefit is," he  acknowledges. "But what it does is help you with anything that requires  short, explosive bursts, like a hill climb or a surge in a road race.”  In essence it’s taking strength and sculpting it into power-defined,  Buchta explains, as "strength applied quickly." During these final three  weeks, you’ll return to lighter weights, about the same as at the start  of the endurance phase, and do two sets of 12, lifting as before but  lowering on a speeded-up two-count. Pause with the weight at the top of  the lift, Buchta says, and make sure not to let the weight bottom-out on  the other end. In other words, the exercises should be done fast but not  sloppy.  Finally, Allen recommends that you add five hard minutes of abdominal  exercises to every session, no matter what phase you’re in. But make  sure to keep it to that and no longer. "A lot of people overdo it,”  says Allen. "What happens is they become so ripped

… read more »

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How much do people work out during the training season?  I don’t want to kill my muscles so that I can’t train as hard as I would want to. Thanks, Michael

In a few weeks I’ll be wrapping up my strength phase and will go to 2-3 x a week, lower weight, high-rep maintenance work.  Right now it’s 3x a week for 1.5hrs.  I don’t lift during the last 1-2 weeks of taper. oh yeah, if you’re feeling really trashed, don’t lift.  it can put you over the edge with overtraining (as can anything). my $.02, V — Vaughn Cooper Center for Microbial Ecology, Michigan State University East Lansing MI 48824 (517) 353-3953/3955 voice/fax

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How much do people work out during the training season?  I don’t want to kill my muscles so that I can’t train as hard as I would want to. Thanks, Michael

Last year I did no weight training but this year I am in a 45 minute group class that uses low weight/high reps and works all the major muscle groups. Tough workout!!  As a 40 year old I believe it is necessary to continue weight training to not lose any muscle as I age. Plus it has to help in all three sports.  I just make room for it in my schedule and cut back a little on the other three. gil (weights are my middle name) gilliland

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How much do people work out during the training season?  I don’t want to kill my muscles so that I can’t train as hard as I would want to. Thanks, Michael

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Question:

I have been designated as the new keeper of the Triathlon FAQ from Larry Chapman. I will continue with the monthly postings, and will shortly have it up on my web page, (which I also will need to get up). I will post the URL within the next couple of days. — Tom Roehr       "The Javanator"

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I have been designated as the new keeper of the Triathlon FAQ from Larry Chapman. I will continue with the monthly postings, and will shortly have it up on my web page, (which I also will need to get up). I will post the URL within the next couple of days. — Tom Roehr       "The Javanator"

Tom– Many thanks for taking on this job.  I certainly appreciate it, and I’m sure everyone else does too.   A sad "Farewell" to Larry, along with hearty thanks for his years of service to our sport and to RST.  I’ll certainly miss his even-handed, cool-headed approach to issues discussed here.  Thanks for everything, Larry, and do check back in with us every now and again.  Good luck in all your future pursuits! Cheers– Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I have been designated as the new keeper of the Triathlon FAQ from Larry Chapman. I will continue with the monthly postings, and will shortly have it up on my web page, (which I also will need to get up). I will post the URL within the next couple of days.

You are my new hero. QRman

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Question:

When converting times from one course to another, swimmers usually add one second for every flip turn that you DON’T do. That explains the 32 second difference between Sanson’s SCM (short course meters) and LCM (long course meters) times. It’s not the rest so much as the push-off. A swimmer with a good push-off and good streamlining comes off the wall at about TWICE their fastest sprinting speed.

As always, Chip knows what he’s talking about when it comes to swimming.  One caveat, however, is that the good push-off and streamlining is often hard to find in a triathlete.  Many would appear to actually lose some ground on their turns as compared to a straight open-water swim!  For someone like Sanson, the 32 seconds difference between short and long course 1500’s is about what one would expect (at least for someone with decent turns, as many distance swimmers have poor turns).  As for preparing for an Ironman, go do a couple 2.4 mile swims in the pool (preferably a 50 meter pool).  Try to stay on a rock steady pace per 100, as this will force your to relax and lengthen your stroke.   Navigating is not normally a problem in Hawaii because there are so many people and boats, plus the water is as clear as it gets.  Boredom will not be a problem, after all the adrenalin from IM Hawaii last for more than the swim portion! Marty Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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[stuff deleted] PS: If you really want to calculate, I practiced doing 1900M swims 3 or 4x a week before Wildflower and averaged 38:00 to 40:00 in the pool but did a rotten 45:00 in the lake because I navigate so poorly. Plus, in a 25 meter pool, I think you get a break from pushing off the wall. So add 5-10 percent to your 25-meter pool time.   EXAMPLE: Benjamin Sanson’s best 1500M time in a 50 meter pool was 15:32. His best in a 25 meter pool was 15:00. So extrapolate. If you swim about 30:00 for 1500M, add a minute or two.  

When converting times from one course to another, swimmers usually add one second for every flip turn that you DON’T do. That explains the 32 second difference between Sanson’s SCM (short course meters) and LCM (long course meters) times. It’s not the rest so much as the push-off. A swimmer with a good push-off and good streamlining comes off the wall at about TWICE their fastest sprinting speed. Converting yards to meters, they usually add 10% to their time. (A yard is 36 inches, a meter is 39-point-something.) I liked the suggestion that you just go and swim 2.4 miles in a pool. Concentration (and knowing what to expect) plays a big role in long swims, and the typical interval-training workout that swimmers usually do doesn’t prepare you for that. Of course, problems with course measurements (I swam a "mile" in 8:30 once), water conditions, getting a draft from faster swimmers, and your own navigational abilities make times pretty irrelevant anyway. Good luck! Chip Zempel

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I’m fairly new to swimming and will be competing in the Great Floridian at the end of October.  How can I estimate my swim time based on, for example, my 500M pool time.  I’ve been doing the bike and the run for long enough to have a pretty good idea, but in the water I’m clueless. Thanks- -Darrin

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I’m fairly new to swimming and will be competing in the Great Floridian at the end of October.  How can I estimate my swim time based on, for example, my 500M pool time.  I’ve been doing the bike and the run for long enough to have a pretty good idea, but in the water I’m clueless. Thanks- -Darrin

2.4 miles is just over 4200 yards, or 3800m. Why don’t you just do a 1900m pool swim, double the time, and that’s your estimate? It’s also good training. It would be hard to estimate from a 500m time, since you can usually really crank it up for this short a distance. You could also do 3×600m with 30 sec rest and use the total time as your (half-) estimate. The 1:30 rest makes up for the missing 100m. The other thing to keep in mind is that it’s really hard to make the swim course the proper length. 100m difference over 2.4 miles (under 3% error) means 1:20 – 3:00 slower or faster swim time. You can’t worry if you missed your swim goal until you get splits and see how fast everyone else went. hope this helps myke — Tellmesomethingidontknowtellmesomethingicanusepushthebuttonconnectthegoddam ndots

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:I’m fairly new to swimming and will be competing in the Great Floridian :at the end of October.  How can I estimate my swim time based on, for :example, my 500M pool time.  I’ve been doing the bike and the run for :long enough to have a pretty good idea, but in the water I’m clueless. : :Thanks- arrin : : :2.4 miles is just over 4200 yards, or 3800m. Why don’t you just do a :1900m pool swim, double the time, and that’s your estimate? It’s also :good training. It would be hard to estimate from a 500m time, since you :can usually really crank it up for this short a distance. You could also :do 3×600m with 30 sec rest and use the total time as your (half-) :estimate. The 1:30 rest makes up for the missing 100m. If you swim 3×600 with 30 sec rest, the total rest is only 1 minute, don’t you think? —                             Ulrich Porsch             Wer spricht vom Siegen, "Ubersteh’n ist alles  

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How can I estimate my swim time

Do say  4x 500 with 15 to 30 seconds rest in between, then average your time then extrapolate to 2.4 miles. That would be the best time you can do. Luis Vargas

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I’m fairly new to swimming and will be competing in the Great Floridian at the end of October.  How can I estimate my swim time based on, for example, my 500M pool time.   2.4 miles is just over 4200 yards, or 3800m.

My personal experience has been: (1500m pool x 2.5) + 15-20min Fudge = Very Conservative Estimate of IM Swim BUT, Don’t worry if you take a few min longer than this or don’t get overly excited if you blow this away. The swim is nothing more than a warmup for the IM distance – you’ll be out there a LONG time & those minutes that seem so precious to you at 8:15am will seem trivial at 8:15pm. Good luck – I’ll be doing the Great Floridian as well!

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:2.4 miles is just over 4200 yards, or 3800m. Why don’t you just do a :1900m pool swim, double the time, and that’s your estimate? It’s also :good training. It would be hard to estimate from a 500m time, since you :can usually really crank it up for this short a distance. You could also :do 3×600m with 30 sec rest and use the total time as your (half-) :estimate. The 1:30 rest makes up for the missing 100m. If you swim 3×600 with 30 sec rest, the total rest is only 1 minute, don’t you think?                            Ulrich Porsch

Actually, just to be argumentative, I don’t think. I think 1 minute rest would be 3×600 with 30 rest between. It’s only a estimate anyway. myke — Tellmesomethingidontknowtellmesomethingicanusepushthebuttonconnectthegoddam ndots

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Estimate Ironman swim time? Look, if the Greater Floridian allows wetsuits, pick an outdoor pool and swim it with a wetsuit. The whole 2.4 miles. No time off. It’ll be good for you. What’s with these intervals to calculate time? I cannot see how a 1:15 minute to 1:45 minute swim can be bad for you if you stare the same thing in the face in a few short weeks? In fact, you need to do it, if only for your mental health. Preferably in a 50-meter pool if one is available. Or better, in alake if you can set the distance accurately. If all you have is indoors, it is too hot for a wetsuit for that long a swim. Either swim it without aids if you are a good swimmer. Or use a pull buoy, which gives very similar flotation to a wetsuit. Your time should be almost exactly equal to a wetsuit swim. Again, treat it like a race — or at least the time trial it is.  Hydrate well before you start, warm up SLIGHTLY then go. No time off to clean your goggles, no time off to catch your breath, just hit a nice steady pace, think about your stroke and go. To mak it more like an Ironman swim, practice lifting up your head to site every lap or so. Try to alternate breathe if you can. If you can’t do it in the pool, you can’t do the race. I am sure you can do it. Just do it. Timothy Carlson PS: If you really want to calculate, I practiced doing 1900M swims 3 or 4x a week before Wildflower and averaged 38:00 to 40:00 in the pool but did a rotten 45:00 in the lake because I navigate so poorly. Plus, in a 25 meter pool, I think you get a break from pushing off the wall. So add 5-10 percent to your 25-meter pool time.   EXAMPLE: Benjamin Sanson’s best 1500M time in a 50 meter pool was 15:32. His best in a 25 meter pool was 15:00. So extrapolate. If you swim about 30:00 for 1500M, add a minute or two.  

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Question:

Hey worldly travellers, I am 33 years old and I’m planning a trip to Mexico June 9-16th. I’ve done  resorts and some beach camping. I backpack often and rock climb.  It’s time to get out and get interesting internationally. I fly into Cancun and plan on spending at least 20 minutes there to grab a bus south.  I am planning on making Playa my base to stake out day trips to points north and south. the olnly real plans I have are to visit Coba for two days. Where are the fun, cheap, hip places to stay in Playa and Tulum.? Somewher to hang a hammock and grab a brew. And what should I not miss that is real Mexico, not a tourist trap (I’ve done Xel-Ha, ick) and is interesting. And yes, I will not be ashamed to have my clothes off. I’m a triathlete, so modesty is not a problem. Whree are your favorite cenotes? Your favorite nude beaches? Your favorite snorkelling spots. And remember, this trip is on the cheap. Whree are your favorite cenotes? Your favorite nude beaches? Your favorite snorkelling spots. And remember, this trip is on the cheap. Please e-mail me quickly! Thom Gabrukiewicz

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Hey worldly travellers, I am 33 years old and I’m planning a trip to Mexico June 9-16th. I’ve

done  resorts and some beach camping. I backpack often and rock climb.  It’s time to get out

and get interesting Thom Gabrukiewicz

Check out Ya-Kul lagoon(sp?) near Akumal for snorkeling (a non touristy Xel-Ha) and go to Casa Cenote to eat and swim in the cenote behind it (on the way to Tulum) — "Either do it or don’t do it, you’ll regret it either way."

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Question:

Hello, is ther anybody who knows if the magazine Triathlete has a e-mail adress? thanks Bernhard

I just got off the phone with the Triathlete magazine editorial office and although they do not yet have Internet access they plan on getting an account through AOL soon. I’ll post as soon as I find out.                                                         Mark A. Jenkins, M.D.

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I’m on the editorial staff of Triathlete magazine. We’re looking into AOL right now. In the mean time, if neccesary, you can E-Mail me. I can not answer every question personally, but I will forward all of them to the right people. Jeffrey Justice

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Hello, is ther anybody who knows if the magazine Triathlete has a e-mail adress? thanks Bernhard

Response:

(Bernhard Hirschauer) writes:

Triathlete doesn’t have E-mail at this time.

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