Question:

I have had a pair of Spinergy Rev X for several (5?) years which I use for training and racing.  I always have a terrible fear when hurtling downhill that the carbonfiber will give way, and I will leave my 5 children fatherless. Is my fear misguided?  Never had any problems with the wheels and no indications that anything is wrong.

That’s been debated for some time.  There’s a website claiming Spinergy’s are killers, but a lot of people don’t find it convincing, including a certain well-respected engineer who writes a bicycle tech column for Triathlete magazine, who rides on them.  I’m not fond of stressed carbon fiber with unfinished edges, but as long as you inspect them carefully before every ride for chips and cracks, you should catch anything likely to be a problem.

Response:

I have had a pair of Spinergy Rev X for several (5?) years which I use for training and racing.  I always have a terrible fear when hurtling downhill that the carbonfiber will give way, and I will leave my 5 children fatherless. Is my fear misguided?  

I have had a few friends find cracks in their Spinergys and an athlete had a front wheel collapse on a descent during IMCAL 2000, severely injuring him. Also check out this site, then decide for yourself. http://home.interlynx.net/~pjdu/                Steve Fredericks                Oceanside, CA

Response:

I have had a pair of Spinergy Rev X for several (5?) years which I use for training and racing.  I always have a terrible fear when hurtling downhill that the carbonfiber will give way, and I will leave my 5 children fatherless. Is my fear misguided?  Never had any problems with the wheels and no indications that anything is wrong. Brian "Carbon phobic" in Texas

Response:

Question:

Leaving work yesterday, 2 roadies were in front of me at the stop light.  A couple of 30- something guys with pricey bikes, Carnac shoes, and matching jerseys.  I figured I’d probably ride behind them till they dropped me.  The light changed but they didn’t get moving very fast.  I announced myself and went around them and they stayed way behind. They caught up at the next red light where we were making a left turn. As I made the turn, I noticed a slight headwind.  I did my best and figured they’d stay back like they had before.  But the shadows on the side of the road showed two riders following me very closely.  I have to crank pretty hard to hold 22 mph. Now I wondered what this must look like to an observer.  I’m on my beat-up Nishiki with lights and a cargo bag dressed in equally un-stylish cycling gear and a T shirt with these two roadies sucking my wheel.  What would their bike club buddies would think if they saw them getting a tow from a total Fred? They stayed with me for a couple of miles until I turned down another street.  Usually I’m the hitchhiker.  It’s kind of a ego boost to be in the lead once in a while. Larry

Response:

I almost always ride by myself. Since I must race without drafting, I never train drafting. So that is always why I ride by myself. i will sometimes catch the roadies, and they will in turn start sucking off my wheel. I will eventually tire, need drink or take a short rest. they eventually pass and i drop back out of thier draft zone, however soon I am passing them again and carrying the load. this sometimes annoys me since I can never sometimes shake these wheel sucking varmints. My real question is though which I always think of while carring a load of roadies. Does the lead rider use more energy moving through the wind carrying one or more riders behind him or is it the same as if he were riding by himself? Jean-Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Leaving work yesterday, 2 roadies were in front of me at the stop light.  A couple of 30- something guys with pricey bikes, Carnac shoes, and matching jerseys.  I figured I’d probably ride behind them till they dropped me.  The light changed but they didn’t get moving very fast.  I announced myself and went around them and they stayed way behind. They caught up at the next red light where we were making a left turn. As I made the turn, I noticed a slight headwind.  I did my best and figured they’d stay back like they had before.  But the shadows on the side of the road showed two riders following me very closely.  I have to crank pretty hard to hold 22 mph. Now I wondered what this must look like to an observer.  I’m on my beat-up Nishiki with lights and a cargo bag dressed in equally un-stylish cycling gear and a T shirt with these two roadies sucking my wheel.  What would their bike club buddies would think if they saw them getting a tow from a total Fred? They stayed with me for a couple of miles until I turned down another street.  Usually I’m the hitchhiker.  It’s kind of a ego boost to be in the lead once in a while. Larry

Response:

I used to think that the lead rider got a little bit of help from a wheel sucker.  I assumed that if the no.2 guy was close enough, the stream of air would slip over the vacuum behind HIM/HER versus the lead rider’s. An engineer (forgot who) on rec.bicycles.technical demonstrated that this was true for race cars, but that cyclists don’t go nearly fast enough to achieve any benefit.  In short, the lead guy gets no help. BTW – Sometimes roadies consider it bad form to stay in the front until you die.  It is preferred that you take take a brief turn and fall back.  That way, you don’t make everyone have to pass you. Rsquared – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost always ride by myself. Since I must race without drafting, I never train drafting. So that is always why I ride by myself. i will sometimes catch the roadies, and they will in turn start sucking off my wheel. I will eventually tire, need drink or take a short rest. they eventually pass and i drop back out of thier draft zone, however soon I am passing them again and carrying the load. this sometimes annoys me since I can never sometimes shake these wheel sucking varmints. My real question is though which I always think of while carring a load of roadies. Does the lead rider use more energy moving through the wind carrying one or more riders behind him or is it the same as if he were riding by himself? Jean-Paul Leaving work yesterday, 2 roadies were in front of me at the stop light.  A couple of 30- something guys with pricey bikes, Carnac shoes, and matching jerseys.  I figured I’d probably ride behind them till they dropped me.  The light changed but they didn’t get moving very fast.  I announced myself and went around them and they stayed way behind. They caught up at the next red light where we were making a left turn. As I made the turn, I noticed a slight headwind.  I did my best and figured they’d stay back like they had before.  But the shadows on the side of the road showed two riders following me very closely.  I have to crank pretty hard to hold 22 mph. Now I wondered what this must look like to an observer.  I’m on my beat-up Nishiki with lights and a cargo bag dressed in equally un-stylish cycling gear and a T shirt with these two roadies sucking my wheel.  What would their bike club buddies would think if they saw them getting a tow from a total Fred? They stayed with me for a couple of miles until I turned down another street.  Usually I’m the hitchhiker.  It’s kind of a ego boost to be in the lead once in a while. Larry

Before you buy.

Response:

Getting back to the original question. In Theory, having a group behind you should make you slightly more aero. Think of the long tail peice on an aero helmet. There should be less turbulence behind you and hence less drag. In practice I don’t think you can notice any difference. It’d be interesting to hear of any wind tunnel tests on this.

In water there is the issue of hull speed, but that’s in a non-compressible fluid. Time to dig up the old fluids text.

Response:

I think for our purposes the compressibility of air wouldn’t come into the argument. If you were going fast enough to compress the ar in front of you you’d create a sonic boom as you went past.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Getting back to the original question. In Theory, having a group behind you should make you slightly more aero. Think of the long tail peice on an aero helmet. There should be less turbulence behind you and hence less drag. In practice I don’t think you can notice any difference. It’d be interesting to hear of any wind tunnel tests on this. In water there is the issue of hull speed, but that’s in a non-compressible fluid. Time to dig up the old fluids text.

Response:

Getting back to the original question. In Theory, having a group behind you should make you slightly more aero. Think of the long tail peice on an aero helmet. There should be less turbulence behind you and hence less drag. In practice I don’t think you can notice any difference. It’d be interesting to hear of any wind tunnel tests on this.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if there’s any scientific evidence, but I never felt any relief pulling a bunch of riders from the pack to the breakaway group. My life as a domestique ended when I started triathlon. The easiest way that I’ve found to drop roadies is to get them in the hills. Unless you’re riding with Richard Virenque or Marco Pantani (yes, Lance Armstrong, too), you can probably beat them. Don’t EVER show them you’re suffering as much as they are. Start singing a song riding up hill, that’ll really tick ‘em off. Paul Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon I almost always ride by myself. Since I must race without drafting, I never train drafting. So that is always why I ride by myself. i will sometimes catch the roadies, and they will in turn start sucking off my wheel. I will eventually tire, need drink or take a short rest. they eventually pass and i drop back out of thier draft zone, however soon I am passing them again and carrying the load. this sometimes annoys me since I can never sometimes shake these wheel sucking varmints. My real question is though which I always think of while carring a load of roadies. Does the lead rider use more energy moving through the wind carrying one or more riders behind him or is it the same as if he were riding by himself? Jean-Paul Leaving work yesterday, 2 roadies were in front of me at the stop light.  A couple of 30- something guys with pricey bikes, Carnac shoes, and matching jerseys.  I figured I’d probably ride behind them till they dropped me.  The light changed but they didn’t get moving very fast.  I announced myself and went around them and they stayed way behind. They caught up at the next red light where we were making a left turn. As I made the turn, I noticed a slight headwind.  I did my best and figured they’d stay back like they had before.  But the shadows on the side of the road showed two riders following me very closely.  I have to crank pretty hard to hold 22 mph. Now I wondered what this must look like to an observer.  I’m on my beat-up Nishiki with lights and a cargo bag dressed in equally un-stylish cycling gear and a T shirt with these two roadies sucking my wheel.  What would their bike club buddies would think if they saw them getting a tow from a total Fred? They stayed with me for a couple of miles until I turned down another street.  Usually I’m the hitchhiker.  It’s kind of a ego boost to be in the lead once in a while. Larry

Response:

I almost always ride by myself. Since I must race without drafting, I never train drafting. So that is always why I ride by myself. i will sometimes catch the roadies, and they will in turn start sucking off my wheel. I will eventually tire, need drink or take a short rest. they eventually pass and i drop back out of thier draft zone, however soon I am passing them again and carrying the load. this sometimes annoys me since I can never sometimes shake these wheel sucking varmints.

You should try riding a tandem sometime.  It’s like a wheelsuck magnet.  It’s kind of fun cranking it up to see what their top end really is, though…. My real question is though which I always think of while carring a load of roadies. Does the lead rider use more energy moving through the wind carrying one or more riders behind him or is it the same as if he were riding by himself?

Oh my… this issue pops up on r.b.t. about once a year and prompts a lot of unreasonable responses. Bottom line is, no – there’s no advantage or disadvantage to having someone sitting on your rear wheel (unless they’ve got their hand on your butt, pushing).  It works for stock cars at high speeds, but the aerodynamics of a rider on a bike are such that there’s no way to build up the "compression" between the two bikes. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

I don’t know if there’s any scientific evidence, but I never felt any relief pulling a bunch of riders from the pack to the breakaway group. My life as a domestique ended when I started triathlon. The easiest way that I’ve found to drop roadies is to get them in the hills. Unless you’re riding with Richard Virenque or Marco Pantani (yes, Lance Armstrong, too), you can probably beat them. Don’t EVER show them you’re suffering as much as they are. Start singing a song riding up hill, that’ll really tick ‘em off. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon I almost always ride by myself. Since I must race without drafting, I never train drafting. So that is always why I ride by myself. i will sometimes catch the roadies, and they will in turn start sucking off my wheel. I will eventually tire, need drink or take a short rest. they eventually pass and i drop back out of thier draft zone, however soon I am passing them again and carrying the load. this sometimes annoys me since I can never sometimes shake these wheel sucking varmints. My real question is though which I always think of while carring a load of roadies. Does the lead rider use more energy moving through the wind carrying one or more riders behind him or is it the same as if he were riding by himself? Jean-Paul Leaving work yesterday, 2 roadies were in front of me at the stop light.  A couple of 30- something guys with pricey bikes, Carnac shoes, and matching jerseys.  I figured I’d probably ride behind them till they dropped me.  The light changed but they didn’t get moving very fast.  I announced myself and went around them and they stayed way behind. They caught up at the next red light where we were making a left turn. As I made the turn, I noticed a slight headwind.  I did my best and figured they’d stay back like they had before.  But the shadows on the side of the road showed two riders following me very closely.  I have to crank pretty hard to hold 22 mph. Now I wondered what this must look like to an observer.  I’m on my beat-up Nishiki with lights and a cargo bag dressed in equally un-stylish cycling gear and a T shirt with these two roadies sucking my wheel.  What would their bike club buddies would think if they saw them getting a tow from a total Fred? They stayed with me for a couple of miles until I turned down another street.  Usually I’m the hitchhiker.  It’s kind of a ego boost to be in the lead once in a while. Larry

Response:

Question:

Heather and Lothar

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          Who won… Who won … Ironman Europe !!!

Response:

Lothar Leder and Heather Fuhr. WWW.Ironman.de Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://InlandInferno.com

Response:

The top 10 finishers and splits are listed on duathlon.com

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         Who won… Who won … Ironman Europe !!!

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Question:

Gregor-  Good job at the Du.  My suggestions would be longer intervals (preferably on a trainer) at race pace (5-10 min) with 3-5 min rest between each and rogress each week and/or regualar flat time trials.  If you are from Columbus, the Central Ohio Triathlon Team does a Tuesday night time trial every other week that is pretty competitive.  On your comment about the numbers at Saturn, I agree.  I think it’s always more fun to be downtown than on rural farm roads and state routes but $ is a factor also.  A race that well run for $40 in the country would be more like $70 in the city.  Then again, Chicago is my favorite race and I shell out the cash to do it every year. -Scott Scott Schnitzspahn USAT Coach http://www.enduranet.com Need faster transitions?  Get Speed Straps now at http://www.enduranet.com/speedstrap/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings, all. I just finished the Saturn Du today in Dublin with an overall time of 1:28. While my runs were strong (5Ks – 18:04 and 18:40) I was somewhat disappointed in the bike. From a previous I mentioned that my mileage is up to 150 weekly, but my speed is not coming. i find if I race on a hilly course my average is much more competitive than when I race flats (like today). I’m getting annihilated by a 22.5 mph avg. What training methods have any of you used to build speed? I’m tall and thin (6′4", 175 lbs.) and have been trying to build more muscle through diet and weights (in the winter). I have seen smoe improvement, but not enough to hold my own. I pass people on the 1st run only to lose ground on the bike. If they’re not strong off the bike I can catch them, but otherwise I’m S.O.L. Any advice is appreciated. Just a side note – has anyone else notice the declining attendance at the Saturn? When it was in downtown Columbus the trunout seemed better and the fact we were racing within the city made it more exciting for competitors and spectators alike. It wasn’t unusual to see people in their robes, drinking coffee, reading the Sunday paper as we breezed by. Just an observation. Gregor

Response:

Greetings, all. I just finished the Saturn Du today in Dublin with an overall time of 1:28. While my runs were strong (5Ks – 18:04 and 18:40) I was somewhat disappointed in the bike. From a previous I mentioned that my mileage is up to 150 weekly, but my speed is not coming. i find if I race on a hilly course my average is much more competitive than when I race flats (like today). I’m getting annihilated by a 22.5 mph avg. What training methods have any of you used to build speed? I’m tall and thin (6′4", 175 lbs.) and have been trying to build more muscle through diet and weights (in the winter). I have seen smoe improvement, but not enough to hold my own. I pass people on the 1st run only to lose ground on the bike. If they’re not strong off the bike I can catch them, but otherwise I’m S.O.L. Any advice is appreciated. Just a side note – has anyone else notice the declining attendance at the Saturn? When it was in downtown Columbus the trunout seemed better and the fact we were racing within the city made it more exciting for competitors and spectators alike. It wasn’t unusual to see people in their robes, drinking coffee, reading the Sunday paper as we breezed by. Just an observation. Gregor

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Question:

Walter,         You might want to try checking the RaceDates web site http://www.racedates.com — Wayne P. Langan                 TEL 973.386.2964 Applications Engineer           Lucent Technologies             FAX 973.386.6503 http://blda.web.lucent.com/~wpl (Inside Lucent Only)

Response:

Hi, I’ve been trying to find an Olympic distance race to do around the end of May somewhere in the tri-state area, or at least within a relatively easy driving distance from NYC.  I don’t want my first triathlon in 5 years to be the one where I’m trying to qualify for the Canadian National Team (AG 25-29), which is at the end of June.  Anyone? Walter R. Strapps

Response:

Hmmm…there’s not much in the way of triathlons at the end of May around NYC let alone Olympic Distance Tri’s. I only know of two around this time of year, but one is already filled (Columbia, MD), and one is in the middle of June (Mighty Montauk Tri). On the second week of June there is the sprint tri in Harriman (http://www.nytc.org), but that’s about it. I know of no other tris at the end of May or beginning of June. Sorry, but I think this time is slim pickin’s compared to other times of the year in the tri-state area.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Question:

Great race and fantastic report!  Third race and you’re already finishing in the top half of the standings — you’re headed for great things. Keep up the training and the writing. See you out there, Tellus Venture Associates "Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win."  R.A.H.

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Great Report! I also was passed by the WETSUIT BOOTIE guy during the run. That guy was flying! I’m considering tossing my Saucony’s and training in wetsuit booties since, it’s gotta be da shoes……

Response:

I absolutely, positively, unquestionably hated your report.  Why?  Because now I want to do the damn thing next year! Your report made me feel like I was doing it, and my quads didn’t even hurt.  Great job, both in the race and the report. How can I get some training time in in that area?  Us flatlanders in Texas get paranoid when we see an overpass.  Are those hills higher than that? Really? John  == but I’m pretty good going down hill == – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING!: This is my first race report and I went a little overboard. It

Question:

Has anyone seen or know where I can find the results to this race???

Response:

The results for the Buffalo Springs Lake Triathlon will be posted within 24 hours, todays date is June 30.  The address is http://greerinc.com. Mike Greer, Race Director

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Question:

But, back to your basic idea. Don’t some triathletes pace themselves by fartlek anyway? You know, speed up, slow down, catch their wind, let others catch their wind, etc.

No.  Most triathletes try to perform at a consistent level (power output).  This have proven to be faster than fartleks.  Fartleks are good for training, however. (especially if you went to high school in the 60’s )    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

Considering the draftfest the 92 World Champs in Muskoka were, this is a ridiculous idea, I’m afraid. —                            Ulrich Porsch

Well,   I guess there goes any chance that hilly courses break up drafting! Muskoka is nothing but rolling hills with a few real hills thrown in for fun. Muskoka is the only race where I’ve even come close to drafting. I was in a pack of about 5 riders of very close inability. We were not drafting though. Some were slightly better up hills, others (me) downhills and some better on what flats there were. We seemed to be in constant motion relative to each other and no-one seemed to be breaking the drafting rule, although I’m sure at some times we all gained some advantage at some point but we were also held up at other times, being blocked in by others in the group. I eventually got fed up with having to concentrate on the whereabouts of the others in the group so put in a surge and dropped them. I was passed later by the lone woman in our little band of theives.   With the course being closed and only one section being out and back, there was lots of room for everyone. Those people that were drafting on that course, in my opinion, were most likely doing it intentionally. There was lots of road available to not draft. Later….. TriDork

Response:

Spencer Smith also said that the world championships should be held in Muskoka, Canada every year.  It is a CHALLENGING course that produces a true champion.  Of course  he suggested it be DRAFT FREE the way the sport is supposed to be!!

I think that Spencer has a GREAT idea. Living only a few hours from there, I wholly concurr with the great Smith. Spencer may have a very good idea with regard to the course. He might also like the course since he won there twice. Once as a junior at the world championships and the next year as a pro. the course is interesting. The lake was %$#%$ cold in a sleeveless wetsuit. The run uphill (500m?) to the transition was challenging and the steep and long hill right out of the transition on the bike, on cold legs on a chilly morning was inspiring? I thought I saw god part way up the hill! At the awards I stood at a good vantage point and was soon surrounded (TriFiend was there too) by Erin Baker, Carol Montgomery, several local pros, Spencer…my,what big thighs you have!, Pigg too I think, and several others. My kids were tired and bored but I politely told them to stuff off, daddy was in heaven! Muskoka every year…..sure, I’ll vote for that. The resort at Deerhurst is nice too. Wonderful setting for a race and the locals get right into it. TriDork

Response:

No, no, no, you got it all wrong.   There is but one way to end drafting in triathlons.   In the week before the event, all athletes must consume large amounts of beans and broccoli.  On the day before the event, all three meals must be bean-based.   That’ll fix the drafting mighty quickly.   -Rolf —    Rolf "Ironman" Arands, Ph.D. (Chemical Engineering)   Dept. of Chem. and Biochem. Eng’g, Rutgers University  –These are my highly opinionated views, not Rutgers’–

Response:

Spencer Smith also said that the world championships should be held in Muskoka, Canada every year.  It is a CHALLENGING course that produces a true champion.  Of course  he suggested it be DRAFT FREE the way the sport is supposed to be!!

Response:

    First of all, I like Spencer Smith’s idea that too many athletes are allowed to race the World’s.  Sheer numbers alone account for many of the drafting problems.  How about this?  Using the example of World Cup Downhill Skiing, take the top 15 (whatever figure) athletes in a particular race (based on rankings, expected result, placement last year, whatever), and place them in the FIRST SEED.

I agree with this idea 100%, however I think that a manageable number would be a bit more than 15.  Perhaps 25-30, with the seeding determined on the basis of regional qualifiers perhaps? Marty

Response:

     First of all, I like Spencer Smith’s idea that too many athletes are allowed to race the World’s.  Sheer numbers alone account for many of the drafting problems.  How about this?  Using the example of World Cup Downhill Skiing, take the top 15 (whatever figure) athletes in a particular race (based on rankings, expected result, placement last year, whatever), and place them in the FIRST SEED.      This first seed would be based upon overall results in a triathlon, not just the swim or the bike.  Not all the athletes in the first seed would have the same swimming abilities, so there should not be a pack of athletes starting the bike.  Similarly, their cycling abilities should be modestly different, since their seed is based on overall finish results, not just the bike segment.  Via these two factors, the triathlon should boil down to more of the original individual effort that was intended, and not the current SUCK HEEL/WHEEL, run a 10k that is currently the norm on the ITU circuit.      In World Cup Skiing, the first seed is given tremendous media coverage…their every move is covered.  It is rare that an athlete comes out of the second or third seeds to win a race, unless conditions change remarkably.  Cameras could cover the first seed like a blanket while maintaining a camera or two to cover the "one from the pack" in the second seed.  An athlete could be moved into the first seed based on results…most likely by coming out of a lower seed to post a faster time than a first seed athlete.      I realize that at the top the differences in the ability of the athletes is not much.  However, I do see athletes who can swim/bike like a banshee towing the top runners to the front, where they can run on relatively fresh legs.  Also, a figure of 15 or so per seed is a much more manageable figure to marshall than a couple of hundred athletes in a pro wave.  IMHO, this would not detract from the "excitement" of the race coverage since the winner of the race will, in all likelihood, come from the first seed.        I love the triathlon, and team time-trialing belongs in bike racing and is good training on the bike, but has no place in the sport I love on race day…where I am there to test myself against others (and myself) with no aid from anyone.                                          cheers, Bill Webber

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Question:

Please help me!    Swimming is cool – mountain biking is way cool – and trail running is the coolest ( especially when the previous two are part of the race ).  I need more of this – the roads are cool for roadies and boring triathletes, but there are many of us who need additional motivation( ie- beautiful nature) to continue racing and having fun doing it.  I recently did a mountain bike and X-C run duathlon – lots of fun!! Add the swim and everything is perfect.                                      Neal Henderson, PSU Triathlon Club

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Anyone out there know of a Tri that would include a Mountain- bike ride and run, maybe a nice swim in a lake? Getting sick of the road!

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