Question:

Anthony,

Congrats on your run and your award! Running in conditions like that – hot and humid – will probably add some time (it would be interesting to work out how much…) to what you can run in ideal race weather…

Actually, after reading some of the other hot-as-hell race reports (including yours) from the weekend, I feel a bit like a baby for complaining about the heat.  Still, I can hardly wait until fall (which comes to us around the middle of November, if we’re lucky…) Thanks for the encouragement, Karen

Response:

Mike,

Hey,  it’s your second race. The ability to not leave anything on the course comes with experience.

You’re right.  I’m looking forward to the time when I know how hard I can push without dying on the spot  :-) Thanks, Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL Weather: bright and sunny, 77F, 86% humidity at the start of the race, a lot hotter and a little less humid by the end Number of runners: not sure, probably 150 – 200 Clock time: 25:35 Watch time (I remembered to turn off the watch this time!) 25:30 Hardware: 2nd AG … Despite the AG award I’m not really happy about this race.  In the month since my last race I have continued to increase my training miles and started with a little speedwork.  I can make a lot of excuses like: it was hot, it was early, I’m running on a not-quite-healed injury (Morton’s neuroma), I’m inexperienced, etc.  But a minute after I crossed the finish I had my breath back, and two minutes after that I felt like I could run the whole thing again.  This tells me I could have done a lot better.

Nice race! What was your goal for this race? Was it to go all out so that you left nothing on the course and possibly take a couple days for recovery? or was it to treat it as a training run and pace yourself so you could run more later in the day or go about training the next day with no special recovery considerations? The fact that you had your breath back that quickly suggests you paced yourself well. Since it is only your second race and you are recovering from an injury, this might be consistent with your goal but wasn’t sure. Good luck! Dot

Response:

Teresa,

Good job, Karen!! And congrats on the AG award! Well, this *was* only a second time at this distance, so it might take a few times to gauge how much effort to put out. Especially with the heat. But it was a good job!

Thanks.  In the last race (my first), I went out way too fast and spent the next 18 minutes or so slowing down and hating life, in that order.  This time the splits were about even, but overall the pace was only 6 seconds/mile slower.  I hope that with some more experience and a bunch more miles I’ll have a better idea of what’s possible during a race. Karen

Response:

and I’m thinking about adding a daytime run to get more used to running in the heat.

If you’re going to race in the heat, that’s a very good idea. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Layne,

Woof, very nice run. Congratulations of the AG 2nd – that’s great! It’s been my experience that heat, direct sun, and humidity sap strength at an amazing rate. You did an excellent job on the whole race but particularly on that last mile. Your quick recovery is, IMHO, a very good thing – your best is yet to come. A 25:35 for your second race – my, my. Ya done good. Please congratulate Mike for his run, too.

Just because of the sheer number of races you run (and sometimes twice a day, geez) you must be totally acclimated to running in FL sun/heat/humidity by now.  How do you do it?  Do you train during the day?  I’m thinking about forcing myself to run during the day (well, before 11 or after 4 anyway) once a week.  They don’t seem to hold a lot of evening races down here. I did congratulate Mike for you, and he thanks you, and I thank you too. Karen

Response:

Jonathan,

Well done.

Thanks. This heat business affects us more than maybe we realize/like to think. I thought it was only me, but we were out this afternoon for our club run in 25 degrees and lots of humidity and everyone was complaining. My HR was not very high (about 6 beats less than normal with the group) but I felt as if i was running in treacle – and so did everyone else, so they kept saying. We felt great when we got back to the club house, though, and even a little cheated (we got home in 1 hr 1 minute whereas we’re usually out for about 1.15 on Mondays). So if our experience equates with yours, you probably couldn’t have done much better. Not without a period of getting used to running in heat first. It makes your actual performance even more impressive.

Although I have lived in Florida a long while and don’t mind the heat, I’m fairly new to running and not used to *running* in the heat.  I was hoping that my (nighttime) training would push me through, but I’m starting to think that some daytime training will be necessary if I want to run daytime races. Thanks again, Karen

Response:

Just because of the sheer number of races you run (and sometimes twice a day, geez) you must be totally acclimated to running in FL sun/heat/humidity by now.  How do you do it?  Do you train during the day?  I’m thinking about forcing myself to run during the day (well, before 11 or after 4 anyway) once a week.  They don’t seem to hold a lot of evening races down here.

"If I ain’t sweatin’, I ain’t runnin’," Seriously, we’re in two different categories – you’re very talented. Your races are night and day different from mine. I’m not saying that I don’t feel like crap by the end of the race (and it takes me longer to get there <G) but you’re working at a whole different level. That’s wonderful! There was an evening (8:00 p.m.) race here recently and even the elites had times that were slower than their morning race times. Heat’ll do that. FWIW, I run when I can find the time. Most of my runs are late morning, any time in the afternoon (most runs), or at night. In my (limited) experience, it does take a little while to get used to running in the Florida afternoons. The heat is one thing but the direct sun also seems to do a number on me. However, it’s gotten so natural that I’ve had to focus on hydration to make sure I don’t do some damage. Lots of water up to 6 miles and some sports drink plus water after that (I’m still working on the tablets) seems to work well for me. You probably already have one but a cool (temp wise not fashion wise) hat really helps. I’ve also found that a hydration belt is wonderful. I tried carrying a bottle, hiding bottles on the routes, and stopping  by water fountains but the belt works out better than any other technique (for me). Lessee, I’d suggest some short runs just to get started (I know, too obvious). I’m afraid to say anything that might slow you down to my pace <G. I did congratulate Mike for you, and he thanks you, and I thank you too.

You’re welcome and thank you. You both did a very good job. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Dot, Nice race! What was your goal for this race? Was it to go all out so that you left nothing on the course and possibly take a couple days for recovery? or was it to treat it as a training run and pace yourself so you could run more later in the day or go about training the next day with no special recovery considerations?

Thanks.  I started out with a goal of doing as well as my first race but with less agony, but once I started an 8-week training schedule for a 10K in July, this race became more of "the 5K you’re supposed to do a few weeks before that 10K you’re training for."  But there’s a tendency to see anything that’s not an improvement as, well, not an improvement. Because this is still so new, though, I guess my goal should have been to see what my second 5K would be like. I think I’d like to change goals after the fact  :-) Karen

Response:

Tian,

I know it’s a bit disappointing that the race condition is not ideal. But the experience gained from it will make you perform better and cope with similar situation better the next time. Think it as a weekend speed workout rather than an all-out race run. We can always do better the next time, can’t we? Tian

Thanks for the encouragement.  You’re right about trying to learn from the race instead of dwelling on it.  24 hours later I am not quite as down about it as I was yesterday, and I’m thinking about adding a daytime run to get more used to running in the heat. Thanks Karen

Response:

David,

Congrats on the award!!

Thanks.  Sometimes it’s cool to be old  :-) You did great, Karen. The increased mileage will show up in race results soon. Keep it up, and patience will reward you.

And again, thanks.  I’m over yesterday’s funk and trying to think about what I can do differently next race, and what I can do differently to prepare for it.  I keep coming back to: miles, miles, miles. Thanks for the response.  You’ve done really well (quitting smoking as well as running), and your posts often inspire me. Karen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL Weather: bright and sunny, 77F, 86% humidity at the start of the race, a lot hotter and a little less humid by the end Number of runners: not sure, probably 150 – 200 Clock time: 25:35 Watch time (I remembered to turn off the watch this time!) 25:30 Hardware: 2nd AG This was my 2nd race ever and first morning race, which is kind of a big deal because I hate getting up early and almost always run at night.  The race is associated with a local triathlon held this weekend; the tri itself and post-tri party all happened Saturday, so the 5K on Sunday seemed like it would be an afterthought, but a really good crowd showed up. Things ran late because there were more raceday registrations than anyone expected.  Mike was plagued with stomach problems, most likely from a combination of nerves and running at an unholy time of day.  Mike and I warmed up with a 3/4-mile jog but because of the delay this may not have been as helpful as we’d hoped.  The most important side-effect of the late start was the temperature.  It’s Florida, it’s June, and it’s HOT.  And HUMID.  And the sun is BRIGHT.  For a nighttime runner this takes some getting used to. On to the race: the course wound out-and-back through a very nice waterfront suburb of Tampa, so the scenery included mansions and Hillsborough Bay. First goal was to avoid going out too fast.  A man running with his 12-year old daughter said "we’re just going to crank out some 8s and have a good time" so I decided to run near them the first mile.  When we hit mile 1 at 8:17 I decided to ditch that plan and try to pick it up a little since I still felt good.  The 2nd mile was good: it was fairly shady and we saw some of the leaders coming back, which put me in a great mood (they’re pretty inspiring).  During the 3rd mile all the shade evaporated, along with my ability to breathe quietly.  I tried to concentrate on the runner in front of me and actually managed to pass her, but it was starting to feel like a death march.  Luckily I knew exactly where the finish was this time so I could save up for a tiny kick at the end.  The 25:35 clock time was not a PR but enough for a 2nd AG award.  Mike finished in 24:27, which was awesome in light of the heat and his stomach trouble.  Unfortunately for him, his age group was a lot more competitve than mine. Despite the AG award I’m not really happy about this race.  In the month since my last race I have continued to increase my training miles and started with a little speedwork.  I can make a lot of excuses like: it was hot, it was early, I’m running on a not-quite-healed injury (Morton’s neuroma), I’m inexperienced, etc.  But a minute after I crossed the finish I had my breath back, and two minutes after that I felt like I could run the whole thing again.  This tells me I could have done a lot better. Karen

I know it’s a bit disappointing that the race condition is not ideal. But the experience gained from it will make you perform better and cope with similar situation better the next time. Think it as a weekend speed workout rather than an all-out race run. We can always do better the next time, can’t we? Tian

Response:

Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL Weather: bright and sunny, 77F, 86% humidity at the start of the race, a lot hotter and a little less humid by the end Number of runners: not sure, probably 150 – 200 Clock time: 25:35 Watch time (I remembered to turn off the watch this time!) 25:30 Hardware: 2nd AG

Congrats on the award!! Despite the AG award I’m not really happy about this race.  In the month since my last race I have continued to increase my training miles and started with a little speedwork.  I can make a lot of excuses like: it was hot, it was early, I’m running on a not-quite-healed injury (Morton’s neuroma), I’m inexperienced, etc.  But a minute after I crossed the finish I had my breath back, and two minutes after that I felt like I could run the whole thing again.  This tells me I could have done a lot better.

You did great, Karen. The increased mileage will show up in race results soon. Keep it up, and patience will reward you. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

Congrats on your run and your award! Running in conditions like that – hot and humid – will probably add some time (it would be interesting to work out how much…) to what you can run in ideal race weather… Anthony.

Response:

 But a minute after I crossed the finish I had my breath back, and two minutes after that I felt like I could run the whole thing again.  This tells me I could have done a lot better. Karen

Hey,  it’s your second race. The ability to not leave anything on the course comes with experience. Good report, and good effort! Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Response:

Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL could save up for a tiny kick at the end.  The 25:35 clock time was not a PR but enough for a 2nd AG award.  Mike finished in 24:27, which was awesome in light of the heat and his stomach trouble.  Unfortunately for him, his age group was a lot more competitve than mine. Karen

Good job, Karen!! And congrats on the AG award! Well, this *was* only a second time at this distance, so it might take a few times to gauge how much effort to put out. Especially with the heat. But it was a good job! Teresa in AZ

Response:

Hi, Karen, Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL Weather: bright and sunny, 77F, 86% humidity at the start of the race, a lot hotter and a little less humid by the end Number of runners: not sure, probably 150 – 200 Clock time: 25:35 Watch time (I remembered to turn off the watch this time!) 25:30 Hardware: 2nd AG

[report snipped but appreciated] Woof, very nice run. Congratulations of the AG 2nd – that’s great! It’s been my experience that heat, direct sun, and humidity sap strength at an amazing rate. You did an excellent job on the whole race but particularly on that last mile. Your quick recovery is, IMHO, a very good thing – your best is yet to come. A 25:35 for your second race – my, my. Ya done good. Please congratulate Mike for his run, too. Thanks, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Well done. This heat business affects us more than maybe we realize/like to think. I thought it was only me, but we were out this afternoon for our club run in 25 degrees and lots of humidity and everyone was complaining. My HR was not very high (about 6 beats less than normal with the group) but I felt as if i was running in treacle – and so did everyone else, so they kept saying. We felt great when we got back to the club house, though, and even a little cheated (we got home in 1 hr 1 minute whereas we’re usually out for about 1.15 on Mondays). So if our experience equates with yours, you probably couldn’t have done much better. Not without a period of getting used to running in heat first. It makes your actual performance even more impressive. Well done aain Jonathan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL Weather: bright and sunny, 77F, 86% humidity at the start of the race, a lot hotter and a little less humid by the end Number of runners: not sure, probably 150 – 200 Clock time: 25:35 Watch time (I remembered to turn off the watch this time!) 25:30 Hardware: 2nd AG This was my 2nd race ever and first morning race, which is kind of a big deal because I hate getting up early and almost always run at night.  The race is associated with a local triathlon held this weekend; the tri itself and post-tri party all happened Saturday, so the 5K on Sunday seemed like it would be an afterthought, but a really good crowd showed up. Things ran late because there were more raceday registrations than anyone expected.  Mike was plagued with stomach problems, most likely from a combination of nerves and running at an unholy time of day.  Mike and I warmed up with a 3/4-mile jog but because of the delay this may not have been as helpful as we’d hoped.  The most important side-effect of the late start was the temperature.  It’s Florida, it’s June, and it’s HOT.  And HUMID.  And the sun is BRIGHT.  For a nighttime runner this takes some getting used to. On to the race: the course wound out-and-back through a very nice waterfront suburb of Tampa, so the scenery included mansions and Hillsborough Bay. First goal was to avoid going out too fast.  A man running with his 12-year old daughter said "we’re just going to crank out some 8s and have a good time" so I decided to run near them the first mile.  When we hit mile 1 at 8:17 I decided to ditch that plan and try to pick it up a little since I still felt good.  The 2nd mile was good: it was fairly shady and we saw some of the leaders coming back, which put me in a great mood (they’re pretty inspiring).  During the 3rd mile all the shade evaporated, along with my ability to breathe quietly.  I tried to concentrate on the runner in front of me and actually managed to pass her, but it was starting to feel like a death march.  Luckily I knew exactly where the finish was this time so I could save up for a tiny kick at the end.  The 25:35 clock time was not a PR but enough for a 2nd AG award.  Mike finished in 24:27, which was awesome in light of the heat and his stomach trouble.  Unfortunately for him, his age group was a lot more competitve than mine. Despite the AG award I’m not really happy about this race.  In the month since my last race I have continued to increase my training miles and started with a little speedwork.  I can make a lot of excuses like: it was hot, it was early, I’m running on a not-quite-healed injury (Morton’s neuroma), I’m inexperienced, etc.  But a minute after I crossed the finish I had my breath back, and two minutes after that I felt like I could run the whole thing again.  This tells me I could have done a lot better. Karen

Response:

Race: Stouffer’s 5K, Tampa, FL Weather: bright and sunny, 77F, 86% humidity at the start of the race, a lot hotter and a little less humid by the end Number of runners: not sure, probably 150 – 200 Clock time: 25:35 Watch time (I remembered to turn off the watch this time!) 25:30 Hardware: 2nd AG This was my 2nd race ever and first morning race, which is kind of a big deal because I hate getting up early and almost always run at night.  The race is associated with a local triathlon held this weekend; the tri itself and post-tri party all happened Saturday, so the 5K on Sunday seemed like it would be an afterthought, but a really good crowd showed up. Things ran late because there were more raceday registrations than anyone expected.  Mike was plagued with stomach problems, most likely from a combination of nerves and running at an unholy time of day.  Mike and I warmed up with a 3/4-mile jog but because of the delay this may not have been as helpful as we’d hoped.  The most important side-effect of the late start was the temperature.  It’s Florida, it’s June, and it’s HOT.  And HUMID.  And the sun is BRIGHT.  For a nighttime runner this takes some getting used to. On to the race: the course wound out-and-back through a very nice waterfront suburb of Tampa, so the scenery included mansions and Hillsborough Bay. First goal was to avoid going out too fast.  A man running with his 12-year old daughter said "we’re just going to crank out some 8s and have a good time" so I decided to run near them the first mile.  When we hit mile 1 at 8:17 I decided to ditch that plan and try to pick it up a little since I still felt good.  The 2nd mile was good: it was fairly shady and we saw some of the leaders coming back, which put me in a great mood (they’re pretty inspiring).  During the 3rd mile all the shade evaporated, along with my ability to breathe quietly.  I tried to concentrate on the runner in front of me and actually managed to pass her, but it was starting to feel like a death march.  Luckily I knew exactly where the finish was this time so I could save up for a tiny kick at the end.  The 25:35 clock time was not a PR but enough for a 2nd AG award.  Mike finished in 24:27, which was awesome in light of the heat and his stomach trouble.  Unfortunately for him, his age group was a lot more competitve than mine. Despite the AG award I’m not really happy about this race.  In the month since my last race I have continued to increase my training miles and started with a little speedwork.  I can make a lot of excuses like: it was hot, it was early, I’m running on a not-quite-healed injury (Morton’s neuroma), I’m inexperienced, etc.  But a minute after I crossed the finish I had my breath back, and two minutes after that I felt like I could run the whole thing again.  This tells me I could have done a lot better. Karen

Response:

Question:

As well as wanting to mention that I agree with Brian (sorry, Brian Sorry for what? The inevitable?  Resistance IS futile! Welcome to the dark side.

I can’t really believe that such an accomplished iconoclast welcomes company on his side of the argument. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that looking at your numbers there is an obvious improvement to be made. Your estimated time for the bike is nearly 60% of your total time, and you are estimating a very conservative average speed for that leg.  Clearly the big gains are to be made here. For example, let’s say you can do 20 km/h on the bike leg, suddenly you are down to 9 hours for that part and your overall time is about 17 hours 30 mins.  Suddenly completing the IM within the limit is within striking distance, right? In summary: On yer bike, Son! I’d actually say that focus on the bike isn’t that necessary.  I did my first half-IM this year, and my bike time was three and a half hours, an hour ahead of the rate you suggest, with two potty stops, and I hadn’t had my leg over a bike once in the previous two years except to race six times last yar and four times this year, and four sessions on a stationary trainer in the two weeks before the 1/2IM, of 20, 45, 55, and 75 minutes.

Which would seem to support what I said, right?  After all, getting up to the 20km/h isn’t going to require any records to be broken, is it now? Looking at the times quoted, the best place to knock off 3 or 4 hours would be the bike.  The OP would have to make much greater improvements in swim AND run to get anything near 3 hours saved. And you’re saying that with almost no preparation, you managed to get up to better than 25km/h, so the OP should find some encouragement there, n’est pas?(*) Mark M (*) That actually wasn’t meant to sound like an aspersion, but it sort of does.  Too sleepy to put it better now, sorry.

Response:

As well as wanting to mention that I agree with Brian (sorry, Brian

Sorry for what? The inevitable?  Resistance IS futile! Welcome to the dark side. I think that looking at your numbers there is an obvious improvement to be made. Your estimated time for the bike is nearly 60% of your total time, and you are estimating a very conservative average speed for that leg.  Clearly the big gains are to be made here. For example, let’s say you can do 20 km/h on the bike leg, suddenly you are down to 9 hours for that part and your overall time is about 17 hours 30 mins.  Suddenly completing the IM within the limit is within striking distance, right? In summary: On yer bike, Son!

I’d actually say that focus on the bike isn’t that necessary.  I did my first half-IM this year, and my bike time was three and a half hours, an hour ahead of the rate you suggest, with two potty stops, and I hadn’t had my leg over a bike once in the previous two years except to race six times last yar and four times this year, and four sessions on a stationary trainer in the two weeks before the 1/2IM, of 20, 45, 55, and 75 minutes.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nowadays, I can do a quarter in 3h15.  I want to do a full one and think that it is possible as follows : swimming 2h30 (included some rest after the swimming) biking 180 kms / 15 kms/hour = 12 hours running 42 kms / 7 kms/hour = 6 hours total : 20h30minutes ;  so 24 hours isn’t an utopia, I think By quarter, I assume you mean Olympic distance.  You should train your Olympic distance down to under 2:45, and then add to your endurance base, and you’ll be able to complete an IM in the required 17 hours.  Your question would be far more understandable if you would avail yourself of the proper terminology for the distances of triathlons.  The bottom line is, if you want to do an IM, you’ll need to train more – 17 hours is the limit.  Not everyone can complete an IM; that’s part of the attraction of it.  At present, you are one of those who can’t, nut it sounds like you could easily change that.  I probably share that status, but I’m not about to have expectations that the standards be altered to accommodate me.  If you want to do it, stop looking for a way to change the event and put the effort into changing yourself, through more training.

As well as wanting to mention that I agree with Brian (sorry, Brian I think that looking at your numbers there is an obvious improvement to be made. Your estimated time for the bike is nearly 60% of your total time, and you are estimating a very conservative average speed for that leg.  Clearly the big gains are to be made here. For example, let’s say you can do 20 km/h on the bike leg, suddenly you are down to 9 hours for that part and your overall time is about 17 hours 30 mins.  Suddenly completing the IM within the limit is within striking distance, right? In summary: On yer bike, Son! Mark M

Response:

Nowadays, I can do a quarter in 3h15.  I want to do a full one and think that it is possible as follows : swimming 2h30 (included some rest after the swimming) biking 180 kms / 15 kms/hour = 12 hours running 42 kms / 7 kms/hour = 6 hours total : 20h30minutes ;  so 24 hours isn’t an utopia, I think

By quarter, I assume you mean Olympic distance.  You should train your Olympic distance down to under 2:45, and then add to your endurance base, and you’ll be able to complete an IM in the required 17 hours.  Your question would be far more understandable if you would avail yourself of the proper terminology for the distances of triathlons.  The bottom line is, if you want to do an IM, you’ll need to train more – 17 hours is the limit.  Not everyone can complete an IM; that’s part of the attraction of it.  At present, you are one of those who can’t, nut it sounds like you could easily change that.  I probably share that status, but I’m not about to have expectations that the standards be altered to accommodate me.  If you want to do it, stop looking for a way to change the event and put the effort into changing yourself, through more training.

Response:

just to know how far I can go with my condition. How far can you go now? How far have you gone? looks like you are not looking at distance so much as time. And what is your "condition"? Why 24 hours? For a triathlon? Hey, you could try an adventure race of 24 hours duration. Since many adventures races of that length have DNF rates around 50%, it would be a good test of yourself if you were just to finish.

Nowadays, I can do a quarter in 3h15.  I want to do a full one and think that it is possible as follows : swimming 2h30 (included some rest after the swimming) biking 180 kms / 15 kms/hour = 12 hours running 42 kms / 7 kms/hour = 6 hours total : 20h30minutes ;  so 24 hours isn’t an utopia, I think What do you exactly mean with that adventure race of 24 hours ?  Where can I find information about that ? Regards, Dickie

Response:

just to know how far I can go with my condition.

How far can you go now? How far have you gone? looks like you are not looking at distance so much as time. And what is your "condition"? Why 24 hours? For a triathlon? Hey, you could try an adventure race of 24 hours duration. Since many adventures races of that length have DNF rates around 50%, it would be a good test of yourself if you were just to finish.

Response:

It’s a nice idea but it still isn’t what I’m looking for.  I don’t want to do a triatlon to be the first but I want to do one, just to know how far I can go with my condition.

Then go do one!  What’s your hangup with 24 hours?

Response:

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – , anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours. How would that work?  8 hours each event?  rotate continually through the events?  (a good way to drown!) It might be interesting to have a combination of various lengths of tris – olympic and sprint run back to back as a continuous race until the 24 hr limit is met. Such a format could also be run as a two person relay. In the fashion of 24 hours of Moab. Let’s say two different course run out of the same transition. One Olympic at 1500m-40k-10k and another at 500m-15miles-5k. Alternate through them until 24 hours. Whoever has the most "laps" wins. Going with a rough time of 2:45 for the longer and 1:30 for the shorter and counting them together as 1 lap, you would have 3:45 per lap and round this to 4 hours secondary to fatigue and this gives you 6 laps, more or less. Interesting. It’s a nice idea but it still isn’t what I’m looking for.  I don’t want to do a triatlon to be the first but I want to do one, just to know how far I can go with my condition.

Dickie, why don’t you "just" swim, bike and run as far as you can in 24 hours? Sure the logistics are tough but if you can’t find the race you’re looking for it may be the only option. Phil Phil

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – , anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours. How would that work?  8 hours each event?  rotate continually through the events?  (a good way to drown!) It might be interesting to have a combination of various lengths of tris – olympic and sprint run back to back as a continuous race until the 24 hr limit is met. Such a format could also be run as a two person relay. In the fashion of 24 hours of Moab. Let’s say two different course run out of the same transition. One Olympic at 1500m-40k-10k and another at 500m-15miles-5k. Alternate through them until 24 hours. Whoever has the most "laps" wins. Going with a rough time of 2:45 for the longer and 1:30 for the shorter and counting them together as 1 lap, you would have 3:45 per lap and round this to 4 hours secondary to fatigue and this gives you 6 laps, more or less. Interesting.

It’s a nice idea but it still isn’t what I’m looking for.  I don’t want to do a triatlon to be the first but I want to do one, just to know how far I can go with my condition.

Response:

How would that work?  8 hours each event?  rotate continually through the events?  (a good way to drown!) Just curious…never heard of the concept. Hi, I wonder if, anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours.  I would join such a contest but can’t find contests with limits in that order. Bye, Dickie

I think he’s looking for an ironman race with a 24-hour time limit instead of the usual 17-hour limit. My response would be: do shorter races until you can reasonably expect to do an ironman in the 17-hour limit. -Harold

Response:

Thanks for the clarification.  Now I feel even more foolish than usual…which is going a ways!  LOL   I should stick with comments for distances I understand…sprint and olympic lengths.  (hmmm…as I grow older, maybe I’ll need to look for 24 hour time limits on those events! LOL) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think he’s looking for an ironman race with a 24-hour time limit instead of the usual 17-hour limit. My response would be: do shorter races until you can reasonably expect to do an ironman in the 17-hour limit. -Harold

Response:

, anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours. How would that work?  8 hours each event?  rotate continually through the

events?  (a good way to drown!) It might be interesting to have a combination of various lengths of tris – olympic and sprint run back to back as a continuous race until the 24 hr limit is met. Such a format could also be run as a two person relay. In the fashion of 24 hours of Moab. Let’s say two different course run out of the same transition. One Olympic at 1500m-40k-10k and another at 500m-15miles-5k. Alternate through them until 24 hours. Whoever has the most "laps" wins. Going with a rough time of 2:45 for the longer and 1:30 for the shorter and counting them together as 1 lap, you would have 3:45 per lap and round this to 4 hours secondary to fatigue and this gives you 6 laps, more or less. Interesting.

Response:

Hi, I wonder if, anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours.  I would join such a contest but can’t find contests with limits in that order. Bye, Dickie

Response:

How would that work?  8 hours each event?  rotate continually through the events?  (a good way to drown!) Just curious…never heard of the concept.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I wonder if, anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours.  I would join such a contest but can’t find contests with limits in that order. Bye, Dickie

Response:

there excist a triathlon with a

There are double ironman triathlons in existence.  4.8 mile swim/ 224 mile bike/ 52.4 mile run  or very close to that.  Would that be what you are looking for?  I don’t know links to these but you could probably search tri event calendars online for them.

Response:

if it is a 24 hour contest, it could be swimming closed after 3 hours, biking after 16 hours and running after 24 hours or something like that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How would that work?  8 hours each event?  rotate continually through the events?  (a good way to drown!) Just curious…never heard of the concept. Hi, I wonder if, anywhere in the world, there excist a triathlon with a time limit of 24 hours.  I would join such a contest but can’t find contests with limits in that order. Bye, Dickie

Response:

Question:

Yes, the curve of a track.   The experience fades into the past as the winter approaches.  But I can still feel the acceleration out of the final curve blast me onto the straight-away as another 400 meter interval bites the dust! Thanks, Jim

Response:

Douglas Yee, asks about running on a track. My first reaction is: WHY? Running roads and trails is far more enjoyable than going around in circles. The only time I bother with the track is to do interval (speed) training and then just once a week. It is just because of the possibility of injury that most people avoid it. To answer the question though, it isn’t necessarily lopsided muscle development that would result. Going arond in the same direction places greater stresses on the inboard leg. You tend to lean and twist while running the curves and the amount of stress is far greater on the inside foot and leg. It could result in an overuse injury like tendonitis. So if you MUST run on tracks all the time, it would indeed be wise to alternate direction. If doing several miles, switch direction every mile or perhaps change direction every other day. At our fitness center, there is a "ONE WAY" sign at the entrance to the indoor track which is switched to the opposite direction every other day for just this reason. I never use it. When the winter weather forces me inside, I would rather swim. (P.S. Doug, the last two email messages I sent did not bounce back for  once. I’ll follow them up with more during the week.) Jack Berkery, Computer Scientist, GE Research, Schenectady NY

Response:

Douglas Yee, asks about running on a track. stress is far greater on the inside foot and leg. It could result in an overuse injury like tendonitis.

I was very interested in reading these postings about running on a track as I sit here trying to recover from a case of achilles tendonitis in my left foot.  I had a great triathlon season, then develped tendonitis after I resumed track workouts.  I was running on an all weather track once per week doing 6 x 800 at approximately 2:47/800m.  I’d follow this by doing a 2 mile run at a fairly good speed on the track.  I got the injury after maybe my third of these workouts and by the fourth week, it was quite sore. This is the third time this has happened to me.  The other two times I caught it early and went back to running on the trails but this time it got so bad that I can’t run anywhere. I’d still like to figure it out, because the track is the best place to develop speed.  Perhaps more stretching, keep the track workouts shorter in duration, don’t do them every week, and be more alert to the signs of developing injuries.                         — Andy Ross —                     University of Pennsylvania                  Medical School Computer Facility

Response:

I am a 15 year old sophmore who just finished my first full season(s) of cross country and track

If you’re 15 and only done one season, then you’ve got a lifetime’s running ahead. Knowing that it takes at least 3 years to become an experienced runner, and 10 to be a champion should show that you’re doing great. Remember that most who have success early cannot handle the training required to succeed long term. IMO The important thing at this stage is consistent quality training remaining injury free. Rest if you need it, try and get a good speed session per week. Look at your goals long term and ease towards them. Next season try and take a few seconds off each PB. With consistent interval sessions you can probably reach nearer a 2:15 800. Remember that improvements come in jumps with long breaks. It’s how you handle the plateaus that will make you a good or not so good runner. Good luck, I’m sure everyone here will be glad to help with any more questions you have. Mike Wilcox

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a 15 year old sophmore who just finished my first full season(s) of cross country and track.  In cross country I ended up running varsity for my AAAA (1500 student or great population) school team.  In the 5K (about 3.1 miles), my times were always below 20 min., but since track started, I’ve ran the 800M (half mile), the 1600M (1 mile), and the 3200 (2 miles).  My time in the 800M run was a measly 2:26, my 1600M time was a 5:32, and I never even broke 12:00 in the two mile.  These are my average miles per hour per race. 800M run  -  12.32 miles per hour 1600M run  -  10.843 miles per hour 3200M run  -  9.836 miles per hour 5000M run  -  9.583 miles per hour The 5000M run was during cross country, when I was 14, the other three were in track, now that I’m 15, I know it’s not a mental thing because I always think I’m going to go in and set my personal record, and the work outs are alot tougher, and I feel myself getting better, I really don’t know what else I can do to get better at short distance’s.  I’ve done interval work outs, sprint work outs, distance work outs, and I’m still not getting any better.  If you have any suggestions please email me at

Might simply be a matter of pacing.  Do you have any data as to your splits for the shorter races.  Post these and I’m sure someone in this group can give you a good analysis. Nelson

Response:

<< I am a 15 year old sophmore who just finished my first full season(s) of cross country and track.  In cross country I ended up running varsity for my AAAA (1500 student or great population) school team.  In the 5K (about 3.1 miles), my times were always below 20 min., but since track started, I’ve ran the 800M (half mile), the 1600M (1 mile), and the 3200 (2 miles).  My time in the 800M run was a measly 2:26, my 1600M time was a 5:32, and I never even broke 12:00 in the two mile.  These are my average miles per hour per race. 800M run  -  12.32 miles per hour 1600M run  -  10.843 miles per hour 3200M run  -  9.836 miles per hour 5000M run  -  9.583 miles per hour I wouldn’t get too upset.  My times have been 5:32 for the mile, and 12:09 for the 2.  I’m in the same situation as you.  the best advice i can give is to run negative splits — meaning run the second half of your race faster than your first.  This’ll force you to get rid of any lag.  ex, my splits for mile were: 77, 80, 90, 85.  the lag is on the 3rd lap.  if i run faster, and you always work harder your last, thats about a diff of at least 10 secs. Gei-Tai

Response:

I am a 15 year old sophmore who just finished my first full season(s) of cross country and track.  In cross country I ended up running varsity for my AAAA (1500 student or great population) school team.  In the 5K (about 3.1 miles), my times were always below 20 min., but since track started, I’ve ran the 800M (half mile), the 1600M (1 mile), and the 3200 (2 miles).  My time in the 800M run was a measly 2:26, my 1600M time was a 5:32, and I never even broke 12:00 in the two mile.  These are my average miles per hour per race. 800M run  -  12.32 miles per hour 1600M run  -  10.843 miles per hour 3200M run  -  9.836 miles per hour 5000M run  -  9.583 miles per hour The 5000M run was during cross country, when I was 14, the other three were in track, now that I’m 15, I know it’s not a mental thing because I always think I’m going to go in and set my personal record, and the work outs are alot tougher, and I feel myself getting better, I really don’t know what else I can do to get better at short distance’s.  I’ve done interval work outs, sprint work outs, distance work outs, and I’m still not getting any better.  If you have any suggestions please email me at

Response:

Our High School track is marked "200m", "400m" etc at the staggers. Most High Schools participate in UIL athletic competitions and thus if they have a track, will have it marked. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] On a standard, high school race track in America, where would the quarter mile be located – on the inside lane or outside lane (assuming I ran exactly from one point around to the same point)?  For that matter,  will the distance be English or Metric?   What about all the other markings?  Is there a way to figure those out?  I have always wanted to do some quarter mile splits, but can’t determine where the quarter mile is and my ego won’t allow me to ask any of the other runners (typical male). On the inside lane. "Standard" tracks are now 400m, so you’d need to go about 2 yards farther for a true quarter mile. (1 mile = 1609.344m.) Which other marks specifically? Most tracks have markings for staggers, exchange zones, acceleration zones, hurdle placements, break lines, and several starting lines in addition to the finish line. [...] — Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150

– Regards, Dave I’d love to think that there’s an end just waiting right around the bend, but every turn’s a tunnel.        I descend I’m the running man… Edward Ka Spell and kEvin Key, The Last Man to Fly, 1991

Response:

On the inside lane. "Standard" tracks are now 400m, so you’d need to go about 2 yards farther for a true quarter mile. (1 mile = 1609.344m.)

This having been said, there are still many, many tracks in the US that were built before the switch from yards to meters took place.  If you have any doubt at all, ask someone who knows — like the coach of the school’s track team. For a metric track, the measurement is made 0.3 m out from the inside edge of the inside lane.  For a track measured in yards, the measurement is made 1 foot out from the inside edge of the inside lane.  If you want to run yards on a metric track, run a foot further out in lane 1 than normal.  It’s tough running meters on a yard track, ‘cuz you have to run right about on the kerb of the inside lane to get the distance right.  Otherwise, you can run in the standard place in lane one, and adjust ‘cuz you’ll be running about 402.4 meters per lap.

Response:

Thank you both for the insight.  It is truly appreciated.   It has been nagging at me for years. Regards, Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our High School track is marked "200m", "400m" etc at the staggers. Most High Schools participate in UIL athletic competitions and thus if they have a track, will have it marked. [...] On a standard, high school race track in America, where would the quarter mile be located – on the inside lane or outside lane (assuming I ran exactly from one point around to the same point)?  For that matter,  will the distance be English or Metric?   What about all the other markings?  Is there a way to figure those out?  I have always wanted to do some quarter mile splits, but can’t determine where the quarter mile is and my ego won’t allow me to ask any of the other runners (typical male). On the inside lane. "Standard" tracks are now 400m, so you’d need to go about 2 yards farther for a true quarter mile. (1 mile = 1609.344m.) Which other marks specifically? Most tracks have markings for staggers, exchange zones, acceleration zones, hurdle placements, break lines, and several starting lines in addition to the finish line. [...] — Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150 — Regards, Dave I’d love to think that there’s an end just waiting right around the bend, but every turn’s a tunnel.        I descend I’m the running man… Edward Ka Spell and kEvin Key, The Last Man to Fly, 1991

Response:

[...] On a standard, high school race track in America, where would the quarter mile be located – on the inside lane or outside lane (assuming I ran exactly from one point around to the same point)?  For that matter,  will the distance be English or Metric?   What about all the other markings?  Is there a way to figure those out?  I have always wanted to do some quarter mile splits, but can’t determine where the quarter mile is and my ego won’t allow me to ask any of the other runners (typical male).

On the inside lane. "Standard" tracks are now 400m, so you’d need to go about 2 yards farther for a true quarter mile. (1 mile = 1609.344m.) Which other marks specifically? Most tracks have markings for staggers, exchange zones, acceleration zones, hurdle placements, break lines, and several starting lines in addition to the finish line. [...]

– Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150

Response:

Ok, This definetely will seem like a stupid question, but after running on and off for nearly 15 years, I feel it is time to find out.  Forgive me if the question has been answered before. On a standard, high school race track in America, where would the quarter mile be located – on the inside lane or outside lane (assuming I ran exactly from one point around to the same point)?  For that matter,  will the distance be English or Metric?   What about all the other markings?  Is there a way to figure those out?  I have always wanted to do some quarter mile splits, but can’t determine where the quarter mile is and my ego won’t allow me to ask any of the other runners (typical male). Thank you for your response, Dan

Response:

Question:

Jsoul, I have to respectfully disagree with the previous poster on this one.   I did this race last year and it was, without a doubt, the worst organized and poorest run race I’ve ever done!   the swim was a joke, due to the fact that it was a low tide.  Swimming through thick seaweed the whole time.  The bike course is hilly, but worse is the fact that there are very few aid stations and those that are there didn’t have anything except water.   the thing that sticks out in my mind transition area about 2 hrs before race start time, and he was no where to be found.   there wern’t any bike racks set up yet, and the athletes that were there didn’t know what to do with there bikes.  Finally, about an hour before the start, the racks finally start to go up, and the race director makes everyone who had set up their "transition area", move their stuff to a new location.  What a jerk!  There were a lot of very perturbed people, I’ll tell ya.   I would never do this race again, no matter what.   I wouldn’t support this race director for anything.  He has no respect or concern for the Al Lyman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know the race course for the Hudson Valley 1/2 ironman in July? A couple of us who are doing the race would like to ride/run part of the course this month as part of our training. How are the currents typically in the Hudson? how clean is the water? thx! Johanna "forever young" Young

Response:

Does anyone know the race course for the Hudson Valley 1/2 ironman in July? A couple of us who are doing the race would like to ride/run part of the course this month as part of our training. How are the currents typically in the Hudson? how clean is the water? thx! Johanna "forever young" Young

Great race!  Raced it in 97 and 98, best race I’ve ever had was the one in 98. Course is mainly flat and very fast, also very scenic and nice roads.  Swim is tough!  You swim into the current on the way out and with the current on the way back.  In 98 my time to the far buoy was 30 minutes, total time 45!  I’m a poor swimmer but the fastest of the day was about 30.  Water was fine otherwise, clean ect…  NYTC puts on a lot of great races, always well run. The bike is on lightly traveled roads and highways and goes around a large resevior.  The run spends some time on nice dirt road.  Not much shade expect much heat tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

Does anyone know the race course for the Hudson Valley 1/2 ironman in July? A couple of us who are doing the race would like to ride/run part of the course this month as part of our training. How are the currents typically in the Hudson? how clean is the water? thx! Johanna "forever young" Young

Response:

Hi, Can’t really help you much, but The Hudson in the Albany area does have some pretty good currents.  The water certainly isn’t like a mountain lake, but it has cleaned itself up recently. You won’t be bumping into dead fish or barrells of PCB’s But you still can’t eat the fish you catch in the Hudson. If I were you I would call the New York Triathlon Club at 914-247-0271 with your questions. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know the race course for the Hudson Valley 1/2 ironman in July? A couple of us who are doing the race would like to ride/run part of the course this month as part of our training. How are the currents typically in the Hudson? how clean is the water? thx! Johanna "forever young" Young

Response:

Question:

The Runner’s Web is compiling a list of Millenium Runs/Races. We have started with a few I could find. The listing is available from the FrontPage of the Runner’s Web. If you are aware of any, please forward the web site or other relevant Thanks. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Response:

You might wish to check out this month’s Runners World.  It has an article on millenium races.  Good luck! Paul Gelinas — On a Mission:  3 hr., 17 min., on 10/3/99, at Twin Cities Marathon

Response:

Thanks for this site.  I am bound and determined to do a millenium run…where, the sky is the limit.  I am interested in a 10k at the least, but preferably a half marathon.

Two comments:  First, if you’re aiming for ‘a sky is the limit’ and perhaps a half marathon (insert my .02 here) you may as well go for a marathon.  A sense of accomplishment and not that much more training.  Second, millennium has 2 ‘n’s. You’re certainly welcome at Hartford or Pittsburgh. Jenifer or Jennifer – Pedantic R Us

Response:

Thanks for this site.  I am bound and determined to do a millenium run…where, the sky is the limit.  I am interested in a 10k at the least, but preferably a half marathon.  I have bookmarked this site and will keep checking back. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Runner’s Web is compiling a list of Millenium Runs/Races. We have started with a few I could find. The listing is available from the FrontPage of the Runner’s Web. If you are aware of any, please forward the web site or other relevant Thanks.

Response:

Question:

How much does it cost to buy a place in Hawaii?

Response:

Pick your race.   Look up that course record for your age group.   That is likely the time you will have to beat.

Ken are you sure.  That must be for the 1/2 IM and under qualifiers.  For the IM distance races, it rolls down well below the record. gordo

Response:

Rob – If you are talking about a slot then I am not sure if it is possible.  I had heard something about certain slots being awarded to charities who then use them to raise money.  If this was the case then you could approach the charity and "g’tee" a minimum level of fundraising and perhaps they would give you the slot. Anybody else heard of something along these lines? gordo — Remove SPAM to e-mail me

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -How much does it cost to buy a place in Hawaii?

Response:

TriathRon wrote… (to the tune of ‘Row your boat’) ‘No, no, no you don’t, that is just a dream Probability laws will put the end to such a scheme’                               /                           quickly ( I hate it when the words don’t match the rythm ) — Mark

But they do, my boy; ‘Probability’ starts on the one and is a triplet pattern of quarter, 8th, 8th, 8th, 8th. TriathRon ‘Music Director’ Gilcreast

Response:

I had heard something about certain slots being awarded to charities who

then use them to raise money.  If this was the case then you could approach the charity and "g’tee" a minimum level of fundraising and perhaps they would give you the slot. Anybody else heard of something along these lines?

I know of only one slot that you can get this way. There is a Half IronMan in San Diego on November 7th to benefit the Challenged Athletes Foundation. It is run partially by Virginia Tinley I believe. They give out two IM slots. The first goes to the fastest time, and the second goes to the person who collects the most donations for the charity. I believe it was about $20,000 last year, and will probably grow this year. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

The reason I asked about buying slots was because I thought I heard that someone made a donation and got a place. Maybe it was to a charity or maybe I just got the story wrong. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rob – If you are talking about a slot then I am not sure if it is possible.  I had heard something about certain slots being awarded to charities who then use them to raise money.  If this was the case then you could approach the charity and "g’tee" a minimum level of fundraising and perhaps they would give you the slot. Anybody else heard of something along these lines? gordo — Remove SPAM to e-mail me How much does it cost to buy a place in Hawaii?

Response:

To have a good chance at getting a slot for the Hawaii Ironman Tri what kind of times do you need in the swim, bike and run for a half Ironman? -Frank the first-timer

Response:

To have a good chance at getting a slot for the Hawaii Ironman Tri what kind of times do you need in the swim, bike and run for a half Ironman? -Frank the first-timer

Depends on  what age group you’re in Frank. In most age groups you must win your age group in order to qualify (there are a couple of extra slots in some age groups that go to those who finished second too). Qualifying for IMH is probably one of the most difficult things to do in sport today. If you are a man aged between 25-39, you would probably need a 4:05-4:10 half-Ironman in order to qualify. Expect the times to be progressively slower as you go away from the above ages. Definitely a daunting task. Another means of trying to get in for IMH is to join their annual lottery that starts at January each year. A few lucky people out of the mass applying this way will be awarded a slot to IMH. Just check the website http://www.ironmanlive.com in January for more info on the lottery. Good luck.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Frank, the general rule of thumb I tell folks on qualifying for Kona is that if they don’t show up to virtually every small, local triathlon and take first place in their age group, then they probably aren’t likely to get to Kona (at least this year.) You can go to the ironman web-site and check the list of ironman qualifiers. Then, go to the qualifiers’ web sites and check the results.  That should give you a pretty good idea. It’s also quite an adjustment to go from small local races with just a couple hundred local competitors, to the qualifying races that have top amateurs from all over the country. So, even if you dominate at the local stuff, you still might not get one of the top 1-5 slots in your AG at an IM qualifier. Good Luck.  Hope you get to Hawaii. Here’s the link for the IM website: http://www.ironmanlive.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To have a good chance at getting a slot for the Hawaii Ironman Tri what kind of times do you need in the swim, bike and run for a half Ironman? -Frank the first-timer

Response:

Frank – Let me start by saying that I am one of the lucky ones to win a slot in the lottery (the soft option).  I have also been doing a fair amount of research into winning slots (a possible goal for next year that will quiet some of my tri-pals, if I make it). Like Jimmy said, you need to be a bit of an all-star to qualify.  In my opinion, it is tougher to qualify at the "short" races (1/2 IM and under). Having looked at the times and talked to various tri-buddies who have made it, the longer distance races seem to be "easier" to win a slot.  Of course, this assumes that you have the huge amount of time to put into the longer races. Speaking as a guy with more determination than talent, I prefer the longer races because they bring the mental aspect more into play and also reward people who put in the hours.  There are a lot of very experienced folks on this list and they may share some of their thoughts as well. gordo — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Remove SPAM to e-mail me

Response:

You may have a problem getting a slot for Hawaii at a half ironman next year…word has it that the only North American qualifiers are going to be WTC races (Ironman USA, Canada, California and Florida) just like the rest of the world has to!        B.Oliver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To have a good chance at getting a slot for the Hawaii Ironman Tri what kind of times do you need in the swim, bike and run for a half Ironman? -Frank the first-timer

Response:

You may have a problem getting a slot for Hawaii at a half ironman next year…word has it that the only North American qualifiers are going to be WTC races (Ironman USA, Canada, California and Florida) just like the rest of the world has to!        B.Oliver

It’s about time!  Frankly, I’d like to see that.  The unfortunate side is that I wonder if some of these really good shorter-distance qualifying races will have a hard time putting on such large and fun events. Anyway, I think it’s only fair.  I’ve always felt that qualifying for the Ironman World Championships based on your Olympic Tri time was about like qualifying for the Boston Marathon based on a fast 10K time.

Response:

As another extremely lucky lottery candidate (of course I’ve been entering on & off for the last 10 years), it’s just too hard to keep my body, mind and business competitive. Something has to give since my business was paying my entry fees and food along keep up my dog in the style he is accustomed, I opted to concentrate on the money machine. The lottery, is a good alternative especially adding the passport option, which gives you a 2nd opportunity. Hey, you might as well try it while you’re waiting to qualify. Remember you get luckier each time you enter, statisically speaking, or so they say. Go for it. Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may have a problem getting a slot for Hawaii at a half ironman next year…word has it that the only North American qualifiers are going to be WTC races (Ironman USA, Canada, California and Florida) just like the rest of the world has to!        B.Oliver To have a good chance at getting a slot for the Hawaii Ironman Tri what kind of times do you need in the swim, bike and run for a half Ironman? -Frank the first-timer

Response:

Remember you get luckier each time you enter, statisically speaking, or so they say. Go for it. Rick

(to the tune of ‘Row your boat’) ‘No, no, no you don’t, that is just a dream Probability laws will put the end to such a scheme’ TriathRon

Response:

It’s about time!  Frankly, I’d like to see that.   The unfortunate side is that I wonder if some of these really good shorter-distance qualifying races will have a hard time putting on such large and fun events. – I would guess that yes, perennial short distance IQ

     races will be affected.  I know in the past, I have      participated in many of the short race IQ’s in an      attempt of snagging a spot. Desert Sun, MiM, Evergreen      High Country, Blackwater, to name a few.  Last year      Desert Sun had IQ spots and there were ~550 participants.      This year Desert Sun lost it’s IQ spots and there only      ~280 participants.  Evergreen High Country simply went      away after it lost it’s spots.  My sense is these shorter      races will continue but will not draw the out of state      participants like they do now. Anyway, I think it’s only fair.  I’ve always felt that qualifying for the Ironman World Championships based on your Olympic Tri time was about like qualifying for the Boston Marathon based on a fast 10K time. – Just because the rest of the world does it like this

     doesn’t mean it’s the absolute best system. I mean, why      can’t the rest of the world structure a qualifying      series based on shorter races, (1/2 IM distance) events?      To me, this seems more logical.  As an age-grouper with      limited time and resources, it is extremely taxing to do      more than one IM race a year.  IMO, doing more than one      IM a year boarders on the extreme of what is already      considered extreme.  Rich Davis                          Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

Response:

– I would guess that yes, perennial short distance IQ      races will be affected.

I sorta worry about Buffalo Springs.  I went this year and LOVED the race, but wonder if they’ll survive if they don’t have any slots, anymore. – Just because the rest of the world does it like this      doesn’t mean it’s the absolute best system. I mean, why      can’t the rest of the world structure a qualifying      series based on shorter races, (1/2 IM distance) events?      To me, this seems more logical.

But IMH is more than just another Ironman Race.  It’s the Ironman World Championships.  The winner is the Ironman World Champion.  The skills required to turn in a competitive time at IM distance are unique to the distance.  Qualifying at a shorter event just isn’t the same.  I’m not saying you’re not a badass athlete if you qualify at Memphis in May. Clearly, you are.  It’s just that you really haven’t demonstrated why you should go to the IM World Championship.  Maybe they need some Olympic Distance World Championships… oh yeah, they’ve got a few races with this concept and they don’t get much attention.      As an age-grouper with      limited time and resources, it is extremely taxing to do      more than one IM race a year.

Well, duh!  Not to be insensitive, but just because you, personally, can’t make the sacrifices necessary doesn’t mean that others who CAN should be denied the opportunity to gain what they’ve worked for.  The idea is to be a top Ironman distance triathlete.  Why should a person who’s put out the effort to gain proficiency at this distance miss out on his slot so that some Olympic Distance specialist can go?      IMO, doing more than one      IM a year boarders on the extreme of what is already      considered extreme.

But my position is not that you should not be able to do Ironman races.  My position is that in order to qualify for the Ironman World Championships, you should be a top Ironman competitor, as opposed to a top triathlon competitor.  The only way to demonstrate that is with a top IM finish. Anyway, good luck.  Hope you get to go again, sometime.

Response:

TriathRon wrote… (to the tune of ‘Row your boat’) ‘No, no, no you don’t, that is just a dream Probability laws will put the end to such a scheme’

                               /                            quickly ( I hate it when the words don’t match the rythm ) — Mark

Response:

– Just because the rest of the world does it like this     doesn’t mean it’s the absolute best system. I mean, why     can’t the rest of the world structure a qualifying     series based on shorter races, (1/2 IM distance) events?

Just because it’s not the "rest of the world" that decides how the slots are distributed, but the IM organisators… Untill this year, there were no qualifying IM race in the US (am I wrong?), I don’t think that Americans would have been very glad if all the slots for Hawai were given to foreign races  ;-) I think it’s a very good thing that all the slots are given on similar events whether ou come from North or South America, Europe, Australia, Asia. By the way… what about Africa ? Nicolas.

Response:

To have a good chance at getting a slot for the Hawaii Ironman Tri what kind of times do you need in the swim, bike and run for a half Ironman? -Frank the first-timer

Pick your race.   Look up that course record for your age group.   That is likely the time you will have to beat.   I use that technic and have succedded in five of 6 attempts.  This year I broke the course record by 9 minutes and still failed to qualify.   competition is tough so you have to be at your best.  If you are not prepared to set a new course record, go and have some fun, enjoy the race and competition, learn and come back another day. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone done this triathlon in previous years.  I am considering signing up for the Olympic distance event but dont want to go to the expense if it is a poorly run event.  

It is fairly well run, but not the best.  The course is good; it’s the support services where they fall short of excellence, like the fact that they provide 12 porta-johns for roughly 1000 people.   Also my girlfriend is considering the shorter sprint distance race as her first triathlon and I am not sure how tough the course is or how many people they let register.  

The course is not bad.  The swim start is in deep water.  The Navy Reserve backs two landing craft up against the pier, and lowers the front ramps.  Each wave gets on a landing craft and jumps off the ramp into the water, swims about 30 ft. to the start, then treads water for about a minute before the start.  The bike course for the sprint is on the Shorway, out to the far side of Edgewater Park and back twice.  Note the twice part since every year a large number of first timers get course violations for only going once around.  It’s all up and down because of the Main Avenue Bridge and all the overpasses, but they’re long, not steep, slopes.  The Olympic distance has a spur out Chester to E.55th St. then back on the Shoreway, then it joins the sprint course for (again note) two times around.  The run starts and finishes with a short but steep hill climb.  The first up W. 3rd from the stadium to Lakeside, and the last one up Lakeside out of the Flats, followed by about 300m of level ground to the finish infront of the Convention Center on Lakeside.  Both run courses wind around downown, with the Olympic adding a spur out to E. 30th St. A lot of sprint participants are runners who are curious to try triathlon.  They have never closed registration – if there’s a limit they haven’t seen it yet.  You can register the day before at the Renaissance hotel at Tower City.

Response:

Well, there ya go…  you say tomato, I say tom

Question:

I have a question that I hope some one may be able to help me with. My current bike has evolved over the 6-7 years with many components changed over this time(not the frame, Columbus SLX, standard road geometry of the era). I had my position set up at that time mainly for road racing, I recently had my position looked at by a friend who has had triathlon coaching experience and is a ten hour ironman finisher and he suggests I change almost everything. My question is before I do that does any one have information (web pages, faqs or to RST) on bike position esp for triathlon/time trial riding (but anything is appreciated). I have some triathlon experience up to 1/2 ironman and have had no problems (comfort or injury) with my current set up. Thanks, Phill Geary

Response:

My current bike has evolved over the 6-7 years with many components changed over this time(not the frame, Columbus SLX, standard road geometry of the era). I had my position set up at that time mainly for road racing, I recently had my position looked at by a friend who has had triathlon coaching experience and is a ten hour ironman finisher and he suggests I change almost everything. My question is before I do that does any one have information (web pages, faqs or to RST) on bike position esp for triathlon/time trial riding (but anything is appreciated). I have some triathlon experience up to 1/2 ironman and have had no problems (comfort or injury) with my current set up.

Yup, QR has just the web page for you.  Check out: http://www.webcom.com/~rooworld/fit_set-up.html Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

If you’re comfortable with it and are efficient, I’d would change it this late in the season unless you’re not going to race until July or August. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question that I hope some one may be able to help me with. My current bike has evolved over the 6-7 years with many components changed over this time(not the frame, Columbus SLX, standard road geometry of the era). I had my position set up at that time mainly for road racing, I recently had my position looked at by a friend who has had triathlon coaching experience and is a ten hour ironman finisher and he suggests I change almost everything. My question is before I do that does any one have information (web pages, faqs or to RST) on bike position esp for triathlon/time trial riding (but anything is appreciated). I have some triathlon experience up to 1/2 ironman and have had no problems (comfort or injury) with my current set up. Thanks, Phill Geary

Response:

snippage…. . I have some triathlon experience  up to 1/2 ironman and have had no problems (comfort or injury) with my  current set up.  Thanks,  Phill Geary

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

Response:

Question:

I’ll do you one better Andy, try the "Timex Ironman Triathlon" you can get it for $50. It stores 100 laps in memory. It has a countdown timer that you can program reps into. It also has some other neat non-running stuff in it. I’m looking for something that can store many times and has many features, although within the $60-100 price range.  Thanks in advance! Timex Ironman, no question! The prices for an 8-lap memory watch run from about $35-$45 — Anita —

mark             http://www.cyberenet.net/~kline "He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy."                                      -Monty Python

Response:

Hey, I got the 100 laps for $38 at local traget/wallmart. I LOVE it. : I’ll do you one better Andy, try the "Timex Ironman Triathlon" you can : get it for $50. It stores 100 laps in memory. It has a countdown timer : that you can program reps into. It also has some other neat : non-running stuff in it. Pascal

Response:

        Hello, I’m looking for information on watches.  If anyone has any brands and models to suggest, suggest away please!  I’m looking for something that can store many times and has many features, although within the $60-100 price range.  Thanks in advance!

Timex Ironman, no question! The prices for an 8-lap memory watch run from about $35-$45 at sports stores (Big 5, etc.) or if you’re anywhere in Southern California, you can find them at Fedco for $25. — Anita — — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Domain Solutions Corporation       408.453.7092  Fax: 408.453.5426 < < San Jose, CA, USA  "This isn’t fantasy, it’s theatre!" Deanna Troi <

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Hello, I’m looking for information on watches.  If anyone has any brands and models to suggest, suggest away please!  I’m looking for something that can store many times and has many features, although within the $60-100 price range.  Thanks in advance! -Andrew McNett The TIMEX IRONMAN.  There are a few different versions of this watch, one of them has 100-lap memory and stores all sorts of stuff such as PR, etc. Others do not have as many bells and whistles but whichever one you get, you will be pleased with it.   Prices are very reasonable and the watches are easy to operate.

Ditto for me.  Great watches, easy to use, inexpensive. Chip

Response:

        Hello, I’m looking for information on watches.  If anyone has any brands and models to suggest, suggest away please!  I’m looking for something that can store many times and has many features, although within the $60-100 price range.  Thanks in advance! -Andrew McNett

Response:

Andrew, I have tried many watches in the past. The most durable and the cheapest I have found were TIMEX watches.  For the money the best value is the IRONMAN Triathalon with the 100 lap feature. There are other models by the same manufacturer but, this one is the best I have used.  It will allow you to record/store and review your PRs.  In addition you can set intervals/repeats automatically for track workouts. You may also want to get a replacement strap for it; I use a velcro model.

Response:

: Andrew, : I have tried many watches in the past. The most durable and the cheapest I : have found were TIMEX watches.  For the money the best value is the : IRONMAN Triathalon with the 100 lap feature. There are other models by the : same manufacturer but, this one is the best I have used.  It will allow : you to record/store and review your PRs.  In addition you can set : intervals/repeats automatically for track workouts. You may also want to : get a replacement strap for it; I use a velcro model. Agree – this is a very good model overall.  Keeps good time, figures out fastest/average lap, keeps date stamps on all sessions, has a useful countdown timer.  Reasonably cheap too. –Ted. — On the web as <A HREF="http://www.beer.org/~tpark/" Ted’s Home Page </A

Response:

   Hello, I’m looking for information on watches.  If anyone has any brands and models to suggest, suggest away please!  I’m looking for something that can store many times and has many features, although within the $60-100 price range.  Thanks in advance! -Andrew McNett

Timex Ironman, no doubt about it…. Sam Callan How long after New Year’s is it proper to still be wishing someone a Happy New Year? How many days before you write 1996 on a check?

Response:

        Hello, I’m looking for information on watches.  If anyone has any brands and models to suggest, suggest away please!  I’m looking for something that can store many times and has many features, although within the $60-100 price range.  Thanks in advance! -Andrew McNett

The TIMEX IRONMAN.  There are a few different versions of this watch, one of them has 100-lap memory and stores all sorts of stuff such as PR, etc. Others do not have as many bells and whistles but whichever one you get, you will be pleased with it.   Prices are very reasonable and the watches are easy to operate.

Response:

Question:

I just read the spirited debate between QRman and John Cobb in the latest Triathlete.  Without getting into the debate, I do have a question for Dan.  Do you agree with Cobb’s suggestion to tilt the saddle to the right or left.  

stuff deleted I’ve got my seat a little atilt, to the left if you must know. QRman

Oh great…Now bike fitteres are gonna have to ask that old tailors question to male customers…    "Do you dress left or right?" Younger/casual dressers may not have heard this one before, so ask a tailor. TriDork

Response:

…snip  Personally, I may switch to one of those Terry saddles with the cut out middle.

I’ve had good luck "Terry-izing" regular saddles for added comfort. I use a 3/8 brad point drill and drill a line of holes along the nose of the saddle from the underside. Seems to soften up the nose of the saddle just enough. D Emerging Technology Services    - innovative mechanical product development    - software application development/management

Response:

I recently noticed that my saddle was inadvertently cocked (no pun intended) to one side about 3 degrees or so.  This has coincided with a a reduced amount of discomfort, although numbness is still usually present.  The testicles have nothing to do with this, unless you are actually sitting on them.  If you are, then, well, you have problems which require professional help.  The pressure point you need to worry about is the urethra against the pubic bone.  If you’re not careful, you can actually rupture small blood vessels in the area, which in turn can lead to temporary urination problems (blood in urine).  Best cure for the numbness is to remove your butt from the top of the seat for brief periods (no need to stand up completely, just enough to relieve the pressure for a moment or two). I’ve got a left-hanger, so it’s recommended to tilt the saddle to the right? Or is it more important to look which one of the balls does hang deeper and then decide about the tilt? Seriously: which angle do you recommend? Peter

– Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

Response:

Personally, I may switch to one ofthose Terry saddles with the cut out middle.

…[snip] On that subject… I like the idea of the Terry cutout so much I’ve drilled holes in the nose of my saddles for both road and MTB. I think it gives just enough "pressure relief" to the plumbing while maintaining all the advantages of a nice hard/narrow seat for the male butt bones. For those of you tempted to try this, it is easiest to do by removing the saddle from the setpost and drilling from the underside with a bradpoint bit. I used a 3/8" starting as close to the nose as the rails would allow and drilled a line of holes back to about mid-seat leaving about 1/8 between holes. In the midseat area I added a few more on both sides. Be careful not to press too hard because the plastic tends to perforate suddenly, and you probably don’t want to go all the way through the saddle cover. Try it on an old junker saddle first… you and "Mr. Happy" will feel better at the end of long rides! Dan

Response:

I’ve got a left-hanger, so it’s recommended to tilt the saddle to the right? Or is it more important to look which one of the balls does hang deeper and then decide about the tilt? Seriously: which angle do you recommend? Peter

Response:

Is it politically correct to tilt it to the left or right, because it then hangs to the reverse.

Response:

Oh great…Now bike fitteres are gonna have to ask that old tailors question to male customers…   "Do you dress left or right?"

The really important question is if the lurkers from Inside Triathlon will be highlighting this thread in next month’s ‘Heard on the Net’ column. Cathy Corning

Response:

I’ll add my two cents worth to the saddle debate, especially after reading this! : the latest Triathlete.  Without getting into the debate, I do : have a question for Dan.  Do you agree with Cobb’s suggestion to : tilt the saddle to the right or left.  I have 2 questions. One, : does this effect position and thereby effect performance?   : Second, does it really relieve urethra pressure?   The only thing I hate about riding is that it is so difficult to get my ass comfortable.  When I tuck down on the aero bars, most often certain tissues are compressed.  Not always, but often.  I ride a softride with a QR saddle cover, so I ought to have the comfort of a Barco-Lounger! Furthermore, I lean to the left, for whatever reason.  I think my left leg may be shorter than my right, or my pelvis may be crooked.  When I run, the left leg feels like it hits the ground first.  Now, I’m not sure how I developed this problem, but I’m trying to correct it with inserts in my left shoe.  What I used to do was simply shift to the side. The point of the above is that when I shifted to one side it was more comfortable on the plumbing.  Personally, I may switch to one of those Terry saddles with the cut out middle.  I don’t see how people can tolerate those Flite Evolution saddles! Just my $0.05 worth, mike holm

Response:

I just read the spirited debate between QRman and John Cobb in the latest Triathlete.  Without getting into the debate, I do have a question for Dan.  Do you agree with Cobb’s suggestion to tilt the saddle to the right or left.  I have 2 questions. One, does this effect position and thereby effect performance?   Second, does it really relieve urethra pressure?   As to the crux of the article, it is a very good example of the age old problem of anecdotal evidence vs. theory and academic findings.

Response:

I just read the spirited debate between QRman and John Cobb in the latest Triathlete.  Without getting into the debate, I do have a question for Dan.  Do you agree with Cobb’s suggestion to tilt the saddle to the right or left.  

I think he’s right about that. I have 2 questions. One, does this effect position

No and thereby effect performance?

No   Second, does it really relieve urethra pressure?  

I haven’t checked my urethra pressure lately.  It seems to be pretty high much of the time.  I’ve been drinking a lot of iced tea, though.  I think there’s a causal effect. As to the crux of the article, it is a very good example of the age old problem of anecdotal evidence vs. theory and academic findings.

You’re going to read a lot about this in an upcoming issue.  There’s a lot going on behind the scenes, and the readers of the mag will benefit greatly from this discussion, IMHO. I’ve got my seat a little atilt, to the left if you must know. QRman

Response: