Question:

I’ll copy a few of the more interesting posts on the subject of hyponatremia. This one compares the potassium level of bananas to Gatorade. More to come… R. brings up an excellent point about "Sports Drinks." Last summer, on a 3-4 hour ride in 90+ degree weather, I suffered from a nasty dehydration afterwards, even though I was drinking plenty of Gatorade. So I did what I *should* have done before chosing Gatorade as my biking drink-of-choice, I read the label. And I was shocked to see how ridiculously low this drink is in potassium and sodium. Now I don’t trust everything I read on the Internet by any means, but after hitting quite a few Recommended Daily Allowances pages, it appears that we should be consuming 1500mg of sodium and 4000 mg of potassium. Sounds a little high to me, so if someone has better numbers, please let me know. Anyway, that 8 ounce serving of gatorade has 100mg of sodium (7% of RDA, not bad) and a paltry 30 mg of potassium (0.75% of RDA). One banana has 20 times more potassium than Gatorade. After my dehydration experience, I started drinking V8’s halfway through my longer rides, as they are loaded in salt and potassium, and I never felt ill after these long rides. Granted, V8 upsets the stomach a bit when you are hammering, but it beats being delirious and having a headache for 3 days.

Response:

This interesting suggestion comes from a guy who’s a member of a local triathlon club. Instructions on how to measure your sweat! The proper way to hydrate is to replace the water that you lose to sweating.  You do this by measuring your "sweat rate".  This takes some doing (and parts may seem kinda funny), but in the end it is the best measure of what YOU need. -Be sure and be normally hydrated for a least a day before you are ready to measure your sweat rate -The measurement involves one hour of hard activity (in this case, cycling, but if you do something else you might want to use this method while performing that activity too since sweat rates can vary by exertion level) -Before you start, prepare a measured amount of water in your bike water bottle(s) (for example, two 20 oz. bottles or whatever you think you need for 1 hour of hard riding – take along more than needed if in doubt) -Right before you are ready to start the hour of hard activity, weigh yourself naked but holding the filled, measured water bottles so that they are included in your weight -Get dressed immediately for cycling and go for a 1 hour hard ride -On the ride, consume water as needed and as you normal would, but only from the measured bottle(s) -Right after the ride, towel yourself off (don’t take a shower, just wipe the sweat from your body) and weigh yourself naked again holding the same water bottles (even if they are empty from the ride) -Now, take the difference between your pre-ride weight and your after-ride weight – this is the net amount of your water loss per hour due to sweating.  This then shows you the amount of water that you need to replace for each hour that you ride. -Water weighs about 1 pound per pint, so if you lost 1 pound during this, you should consume 1 pt (16 oz) MORE water than you did during the test to "stay even" and exactly replace your sweat.  If you weighed the same after the test, then you are consuming the right amount of water.  If you gained weight – well, then you probably didn’t ride hard enough!  :) -You should do this test under a variety of conditions (relatively cool like now, really hot like in mid-summer, and cold like in winter).  This will give you are range of water amounts per hour so that when you go for a ride, you’ll know how much to bring and drink based on the length of the ride and the conditions under which you’ll be riding.  This should stay relatively stable, but you might want to retest every so often if you have major changes in your body (weight gains or losses, for example, or a lower % of body fat due to working out so much!) BUT, don’t forget that you are also losing salt with your sweat (and electrolytes).  A sport drink (like Gatorade) can (and should) be used to replace your electrolyte loss and "count" as your water replacement volume.  What regular Gatorade lacks though is enough salt.  You can fix this by adding 1/4 tsp of salt to 1 liter of Gatorade.  This is a rough approximation of your salt loss because everyone is built differently.  An easy way to know if this is the right amount is to taste the salted Gatorade before you ride and also during the middle of your ride.  It should taste "salty" before the ride and you shouldn’t be able to detect the salt during the ride.  If it still tastes salty during the ride, use a little less salt next time.  Not sure if it’s enough?  Then add more salt next time until it does taste salty during the ride.  Kosher salt (the big stuff like that found on soft pretzels) works great for this.  Eventually you’ll establish your own hydration plan that works best for you in all situations. The hardest part about all of this is that most of us tend to drink too little on a ride, so we have to change our behavior.  Avoiding both dehydration and hyponatremia is easy if you know your sweat rate.

Response:

Last one. This one contains a recipe or two for homemade Gatorade. Here’s a recipe for homemade sports drink I found on the ‘net that was apparently taken from John Forester’s "Effective Cycling" book. "Effective Cycling," chapter 24, pp 216-217: One way to make this up is to use one 2-quart envelope of unsweetened Kool-Aid (I prefer Wyler’s unsweetened lemonade powder, but it is hard to find), 8 tablespoons [1/2 cup] of sugar, and 1/2 teaspoon of salt. Mix the ingredients well, and then divide the mixed dry powder into four equal portions. Carry the dry powder with you, and use one portion per bottle. I haven’t used this exact recipe but I have used one that is similar though I believe it called for twice as much salt. One nice thing about homemade energy drinks is that you can pick whatever flavor appeals to you on that particular day so you’re more likely to drink up while you’re on the bike. Suggested variations on the recipe include using Tang or OJ for the flavoring and/or adding some protein powder for longer rides. It’s probably best to start with the basic recipe and then experiment to find out what works for you. And as always, make sure to experiment on shorter rides rather than that all-important double-century or that long-awaited PBP attempt. Those are not exactly the kind of rides where you want to try something new to see how it works for you.

Response:

Thanks for that and following info. It was on initial reading of this entire subject that I learned how devoid of some essentials are many/most sports drinks.  They are basically carbos with some other things.  I sweat profusely and probably need more "salts" then these drinks provide. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll copy a few of the more interesting posts on the subject of hyponatremia. This one compares the potassium level of bananas to Gatorade. More to come… R. brings up an excellent point about "Sports Drinks." Last summer, on a 3-4 hour ride in 90+ degree weather, I suffered from a nasty dehydration afterwards, even though I was drinking plenty of Gatorade. So I did what I *should* have done before chosing Gatorade as my biking drink-of-choice, I read the label. And I was shocked to see how ridiculously low this drink is in potassium and sodium. Now I don’t trust everything I read on the Internet by any means, but after hitting quite a few Recommended Daily Allowances pages, it appears that we should be consuming 1500mg of sodium and 4000 mg of potassium. Sounds a little high to me, so if someone has better numbers, please let me know. Anyway, that 8 ounce serving of gatorade has 100mg of sodium (7% of RDA, not bad) and a paltry 30 mg of potassium (0.75% of RDA). One banana has 20 times more potassium than Gatorade. After my dehydration experience, I started drinking V8’s halfway through my longer rides, as they are loaded in salt and potassium, and I never felt ill after these long rides. Granted, V8 upsets the stomach a bit when you are hammering, but it beats being delirious and having a headache for 3 days.

Response:

Then the recipe for your own homemade sports drink might be just the thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for that and following info. It was on initial reading of this entire subject that I learned how devoid of some essentials are many/most sports drinks.  They are basically carbos with some other things.  I sweat profusely and probably need more "salts" then these drinks provide. I’ll copy a few of the more interesting posts on the subject of hyponatremia. This one compares the potassium level of bananas to Gatorade. More to come… R. brings up an excellent point about "Sports Drinks." Last summer, on a 3-4 hour ride in 90+ degree weather, I suffered from a nasty dehydration afterwards, even though I was drinking plenty of Gatorade. So I did what I *should* have done before chosing Gatorade as my biking drink-of-choice, I read the label. And I was shocked to see how ridiculously low this drink is in potassium and sodium. Now I don’t trust everything I read on the Internet by any means, but after hitting quite a few Recommended Daily Allowances pages, it appears that we should be consuming 1500mg of sodium and 4000 mg of potassium. Sounds a little high to me, so if someone has better numbers, please let me know. Anyway, that 8 ounce serving of gatorade has 100mg of sodium (7% of RDA, not bad) and a paltry 30 mg of potassium (0.75% of RDA). One banana has 20 times more potassium than Gatorade. After my dehydration experience, I started drinking V8’s halfway through my longer rides, as they are loaded in salt and potassium, and I never felt ill after these long rides. Granted, V8 upsets the stomach a bit when you are hammering, but it beats being delirious and having a headache for 3 days.

Response:

Question:

Brian "I REALLY don’t watch that much TV, but more than Ruth" Wagner

Okay, now that we know how you all tote your gear around, and we already knew what you like to listen to while on the indoor trainer, what do you watch?  I got bored with the backs of those two nitwits going nowhere, so I really do watch a lot of TV in the indoor season – 5 hours in fact.  First choice, even if I weren’t on the bike, was The Sopranos, followed by Law and Order, NYPDBlue, and anything else bloody enough to hold my attention while I’m doing the hateful.  I’ve already mentioned that crazy Have A Baby on TV program, in which the woman invites the whole neighborhood to watch.  I won’t mention more about it, lest I inspire Bryan to go over the top again.  Or was that under the bottom. Ruth "I’d watch Springer before I’d spend an hour staring at those two Nintendo characters" Kazez

Response:

Now I know I’m getting too old.  Here all this time I thought chafing problems were with the thighs, where they rub together.  In the spring, after running in long pants all winter, I have chafing problems there.  That what I first thought this thread was all about.  Little did I know this would turn into a sort of sex ed class. John

Response:

<snip The other place where I tend to get a frustrating amount of chafing (I’ve heard other women complain about this as well) is on my sternum and chest where the top seam of the running bra rubs as I run.  I wish sports bra manufacturers would stop using those heavily sewn seams there, and do something to make the seams softer.  

One thing that helps this problem is to only use jog bras that have zero cotton content. Any jog bra with cotton in it will make the chafing worse. Um, it tends to rip the flesh right off your chest. The other thing that sometimes helps is smearing lube of your choice on your chest underneath the jog bra. Cathy

Response:

Any jog bra with cotton in it will make the chafing worse. Um, it tends to rip the flesh right off your chest.

Such word pictures are SOOOOO inspiring. TV commercial. <sound of guitar, camera moves through jungle enters clearing, revealing third world death squad torturing dissidents, using a belt sander and paint scraper to rip the flesh off their chests. Chorus (singing):The look… the feel… of cotton. The fabric of your life. Isn’t that special?

Response:

sound of guitar, camera moves through jungle enters clearing, revealing third world death squad torturing dissidents, using a belt sander and paint scraper to rip the flesh off their chests. Chorus (singing):The look… the feel… of cotton. The fabric of your life. Isn’t that special?

Sheeesh, Brian, those were just a few triathletes shaving down for the big event.  Haven’t you been reading the *clipper* thread?  A belt sander was definitely mentioned. And that wasn’t a chorus. It was the gently warbling vibrato of …whatizname…one of the brothers, ummm…Aaron…ummm, oh well, you know who(m – in case there are any english majors lurking here) I mean. Ruth K

Response:

Clitoris? What’s that? Phil

|

| | | It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. | | Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know. | | That’s exactly what I was wondering! | | If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about… | | | I can’t believe some of you are so coy.  The word is …get ready for | this …clitoris.  Now just repeat the word three times.  There…that | wasn’t so difficult, was it? | | As usual, the best solution is avoidance.  Sit on one side of the | saddle, then switch to the other.  Also, if you can rotate your pelvis | far enough so that you’re balanced on your pubic bone, you’ll not only | avoid the pain, but be in a very good position on your aerobars. | | Ruth Kazez

Response:

Sheeesh, Brian, those were just a few triathletes shaving down for the big event.  Haven’t you been reading the *clipper* thread?  A belt sander was definitely mentioned.

It’s different when a stranger does it. And that wasn’t a chorus. It was the gently warbling vibrato of …whatizname…one of the brothers, ummm…Aaron…ummm, oh well, you know who(m – in case there are any english majors lurking here) I mean.

On my surround sound home theater system, I distinctly hear multiple voices, at least one of them female. Brian "I REALLY don’t watch that much TV, but more than Ruth" Wagner

Response:

Clitoris? What’s that?

Well, that just about shot YOUR chance of getting any dates around here!  Go ask Master Watson.

Response:

I’ve frequently resorted to wearing my running bras inside out.  Looks pretty stupid, but it works. Nothing looks stupid on you, but you knew I was going to say that.

I very much doubt that a Carmen Miranda chapeau would look anything BUT stupid on me.  How about a set of antlers?  The Stanford Mascot costume (believe it or not, it’s a tree)? A lampshade? …. TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know.

That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about… Bag Balm.  Smear it on before race start.  Works great. The other place where I tend to get a frustrating amount of chafing (I’ve heard other women complain about this as well) is on my sternum and chest where the top seam of the running bra rubs as I run.  I wish sports bra manufacturers would stop using those heavily sewn seams there, and do something to make the seams softer.  I’ve frequently resorted to wearing my running bras inside out.  Looks pretty stupid, but it works.   :p TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know. That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about…

I can’t believe some of you are so coy.  The word is …get ready for this …clitoris.  Now just repeat the word three times.  There…that wasn’t so difficult, was it? As usual, the best solution is avoidance.  Sit on one side of the saddle, then switch to the other.  Also, if you can rotate your pelvis far enough so that you’re balanced on your pubic bone, you’ll not only avoid the pain, but be in a very good position on your aerobars. Ruth Kazez

Response:

That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about…

And now, of course, the obvious question is – what spot does Tri-Baby *think* it is? I’ve frequently resorted to wearing my running bras inside out.  Looks pretty stupid, but it works.

Nothing looks stupid on you, but you knew I was going to say that.

Response:

I found olive oil is better than vasoline. With some roasted garlic and oregano, and just a pinch of cracked pepper.

That’s too much stuff to keep on the nightstand. Before you buy.

Response:

I found olive oil is better than vasoline. With some roasted garlic and oregano, and just a pinch of cracked pepper. That’s too much stuff to keep on the nightstand.

What with all the room taken up by the handcuffs, leg irons, and feather duster, right? Even here in the midwest, it’s available pre-mixed, with a comfort tip applicator.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know. That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about… I can’t believe some of you are so coy.  The word is …get ready for this …clitoris.  Now just repeat the word three times.  There…that wasn’t so difficult, was it?

Actually, I thought she was referring to the labia. (shocking, isn’t it?) TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

I can’t believe some of you are so coy.  The word is …get ready for this …clitoris. Now just repeat the word three times.  There…that wasn’t so difficult, was it?

THANK YOU!  To quote Mr. Rogers "it’s not a bad thing, boys and girls," but, as you know, we guys would NEVER have found it without some help from the ladies.  You have to SAY where. As usual, the best solution is avoidance.

-"What’s wrong with a kiss, boy? Hmmmm? Why not start her off with a nice kiss? … You don’t have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate. Give her a kiss, boy." -"Suck the nipple, sir?" -"Good! Good. Well done, Wymer." -"Uh, stroking the thighs, sir." -"Yes. Yes, I suppose so. Hmm?" -"Oh, sir. Biting the neck." -"Yes. Good. Nibbling the earlobe, uhh, kneading the buttocks, and so on and so forth. So, we have all these possibilities before we STAMPEDE towards the clitoris, Watson."

Response:

Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.

Response:

I WAS WONDERING HOW DID IT GET HOT ANYWAY? Cool it off and the chafing will probably stop. If not see your DR. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve also had this problem, with no ideas on solutions.  Sometimes I just have to stay off the bike for a few days while "it" heals up.  Do the male/female specific saddles with the cutouts help??  Does body glide help those aweful chamis shorts? Help! Andrea – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.

Response:

Body Glide is very good for this, hopefully smeared on in T1. Vaseline doesn’t work all that well, and is bad for wetsuits. I have also used a product called chamois butter with good results. When training, be sure to keep bike shorts meticulously clean: rinse them out immediately after use, and launder frequently with a gentle detergent. This will usually prevent chafing from starting in the first place. — Tony Verow, MD                           "Allow myself to introduce 34511 Highway #550 #206                             Austin Powers Durango, CO 81301-6154 (home) 970-259-6230 (work) 970-382-1045 (page) 970-385-8057 (cell)   970-759-5112

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I WAS WONDERING HOW DID IT GET HOT ANYWAY? Cool it off and the chafing will probably stop. If not see your DR. Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.

Response:

Hilary: I was having the same problem until I switched saddles.  I tried every brand of shorts out there.  I had also tried all the different products for chafing.  I finally broke down and bought a women’s saddle with the cut out.  I had a hard time switching to one of these saddles just because I did not like the way they looked.  I had tried various saddles without the cut out but once I did get one I have not had a problem since.  Just FYI I bought the Terry Ti Race Liberator and had to buy directly from Terry.  I could not find a bike shop in town that was carrying at the time.  Good luck. Janie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve also had this problem, with no ideas on solutions.  Sometimes I just have to stay off the bike for a few days while "it" heals up.  Do the male/female specific saddles with the cutouts help??  Does body glide help those aweful chamis shorts?

Body Glide seems to help everywhere, and now it’s a sunscreen, too. Brian "it even makes mountains of coleslaw" Wagner

Response:

I found olive oil is better than vasoline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.

Response:

I found olive oil is better than vasoline.

With some roasted garlic and oregano, and just a pinch of cracked pepper.

Response:

It’s in a spot where no clothing can go.

Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all!!! A buddy and I are interested in buying triathlon-ready bikes.  Do you have any recomendations on what to get?  I guess we are both looking to spend around $1,200 to $1,500…maybe a little more if needed.  Anyway I would reall apreciate any info you guys/girls could give me… Plus, are there places where you can buy a program that would get you ready for an Ironman Distance Triathlon?  I’ve just started and am getting really serious about training.  I figure it’s time to get organized so that I can race to the peak of my ability…thanks again. Jesse Leifert Hey all!!! A buddy and I are interested in buying triathlon-ready bikes.  Do you have any recomendations on what to get?  I guess we are both looking to spend around $1,200 to $1,500…maybe a little more if needed.  Anyway I would reall apreciate any info you guys/girls could give me… Plus, are there places where you can buy a program that would get you ready for an Ironman Distance Triathlon?  I’ve just started and am getting really serious about training.  I figure it’s time to get organized so that I can race to the peak of my ability…thanks again. Jesse Leifert

I’m now offering triathlon online email training. I have a degree in sport science (4 year program). check out my sites for reference, and note the attached package http://members.tripod.com/~TriNB/MHFS/mhfs.htm http://members.tripod.com/~TriNB/ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4264/

[ contract.txt 5K ]

Training Plans and Rates      1.   Elite      For very serious athletes who want every part of their training analyzed and planned. Includes training and biomechanical analysis through videotape and/or still photo. Includes nutritional analysis and weight training. Fully periodized training based on specified competition dates. Athlete is advised to commit to full year of training. Training plans are provided in highly detailed 1 week microcycle blocks.      Rate:$200 USD ($300 CDN) 1st month, $150 USD ($225 CDN) each month thereafter.      2.   Competitive      Includes nutrition analysis. Less detailed periodized training for athletes who aren’t in a position to specify competition dates. Training plans provided in 2 week blocks.      Rate: $150 USD ($225 CDN) 1st month, $100 USD ($150 CDN) each month thereafter.      3.   Recreational      For the athlete whose focus is more on event completion than goal time. 4 week training block provided.      Rate: $100 USD ($150) 1st month, $50 USD ($75 CDN) each month thereafter.                                                        Moncton Health and Fitness Services (MHFS)             Client Questionnaire Please answer the following questions and contract to the best of your ability and mail it (or fax 506-388-6241) along with a cheque for your first month to: MHFS, 204 Brookview St., Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada, E1C 9N8. Use additional paper if necessary. PERSONAL Name: City: State/Province: Zip/Postal Code: DOB: Ht: Wt: Phone: (time zone included) w: (area code included) h: (area code included) Fax: (area code included) email: Occupation: I desire Plan (circle): Elite, Competitive, Recreational and have Canadian Customers) I understand that I am committing to this program for a minimum of four (4) months: _______ initials. PERSONAL PHYSIOLOGY               Max. HR: sport- VO2 Max: sport- Anaerobic Threshold Heart Rate (estimated): Avg. Resting HR: % BodyFat: SPORT RELATED I wish to be coached in the sport of (triathlon / duathlon / running / cycling) Circle one Yrs. Competing: Favorite Sport: Best Time: Least Favorite: Strengths / Weaknesses: AVG. TRAINING TIME AVAILABILITY EACH WEEK (hours): Mon. Tues. Wed. Thurs. Fri. Sat. Sun. TOTAL GOALS (Please state your goals. List event dates and distances.) TRAINING HISTORY (Please describe a typical week of training from the past month.) Average Hours / week: OTHER COMMENTS: CONTRACT AND WAIVER PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE SIGNING Make 2 copies and fax them to me. I will sign both and fax one back to you. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A TRIATHLON AND TRAINING FOR A TRIATHLON IS AN EXTREME TEST OF A PERSON’S PHYSICAL AND MENTAL LIMITS AND CARRIES WITH IT THE POTENTIAL FOR DEATH, SERIOUS INJURY AND PROPERTY LOSS. I HEREBY ASSUME THE RISK OF PARTICIPATING IN THE TRAINING AND OTHER ACTIVITIES RECOMMENDED BY ANDRE CHARLEBOIS AND/OR MHFS. I CERTIFY THAT I AM PHYSICALLY FIT, AM SUFFICIENTLY TRAINED FOR PARTICIPATION IN THIS PROGRAM AND HAVE NOT BEEN ADVISED AGAINST PARTICIPATION BY A QUALIFIED HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT MY STATEMENTS ON THIS CONTRACT ARE TRUE. I ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPT THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH RIGOROUS PHYSCIAL TRAINING. I WAIVE, RELEASE AND DISCHARGE ANDRE G. CHARLEBOIS AND/OR MONCTON HEALTH AND FITNESS SERVICES FROM ANY AND ALL CLAIMS , LOSSES, OR LIABILITIES OF DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY , PARTIAL OR PERMANENT DISABILITY, DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, MEDICAL OR HOSPITAL BILLS, THEFT, OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING ECONOMIC LOSS, WHICH MAY NOW, OR IN THE FUTURE, ARISE OUT OF OR RELATE TO MY PARTICIPATION IN THIS TRAINING PROGRAM. I AGREE NOT TO SUE ANY OF THE PERSONS OR ENTITIES ASSOCIATED WITH ANDRE CHARLEBOIS AND/OR MONCTON HEALTH AND FITNESS SERVICES. I HEREBY AFFIRM THAT I AM EIGHTEEN (18) YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER. I HAVE READ THE DOCUMENT AND I UNDERSTAND ITS CONTENTS. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE TERMS OF THIS CONTRACT SHALL BE INTERPRETED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAWS OF THE PROVINCE OF NEW BRUNSWICK, CANADA. SERVICE CONTRACT the 10th of each month. I agree to give at least two weeks’ notice before cancelling my training plan. I understand that I can extend and change my plan at any time after the initial four months. I understand that I will receive training plans according to the plan I have purchased. I HAVE READ AND AGREE TO THE WAIVER AND SERVICE CONTRACT. MONCTON HEALTH AND FITNESS SERVICES                               Revised: 14 Sep 1998          Copyright   1998 Moncton Health and Fitness Services                 All rights reserved.            Site Design by Moncton Health and Fitness Services

Response:

Hey all!!! A buddy and I are interested in buying triathlon-ready bikes.  Do you have any recomendations on what to get?  I guess we are both looking to spend around $1,200 to $1,500…maybe a little more if needed.  Anyway I would reall apreciate any info you guys/girls could give me… Plus, are there places where you can buy a program that would get you ready for an Ironman Distance Triathlon?  I’ve just started and am getting really serious about training.  I figure it’s time to get organized so that I can race to the peak of my ability…thanks again. Jesse Leifert

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Question:

Can anybody please tell me how I can find the results for this years race.                                         Dirk…

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Can anybody please tell me how I can find the results for this years race.                                    Dirk…

Try http://cruise.comms.unsw.edu.au/%7Eadam/results/1997-8/forster-half.html Mark Irwin

Response:

Results were posted on two web sites: One from David Baldwin in the ACT through the ACT site and the other is Adam’s Radford’s result site out of Sydney. Suitable searches will find each site for sure… David will also have the Callala Bay half Ironman results shortly as will Adam when he returns from his course… Ultimately the Minolta Ironman Australian Traithklon site will be again operational as from January 1 with a lot of this information and other pertinent info leading up to the race on April 5! Cheers Nick Munting Media Liaison – Minolta Ironman

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Question:

I am considering taking up cross country skiing for a new change in training and I am wondering what would be the best to take up.  Skating or the traditional style.  I am leaning towards the skating style as it looks like more fun and easier.  Any input would be great!   Thanks Todd

Skating is quicker to learn, and also good strengthbuilding. IMHO skating is the better for the triathlet. Regards Lars Norwegian skier and bicyclist

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Rick, I now live in Houston, but at one time wnet to school in the Upper Pennisula of Michigan and used to X-country ski extensively.  Skating on skis is not bad to learn and is a whole lot of fun once you get it down (Plus falling on snow hurts far less than falling on ice!!)  Skating has a beautiful elegence to it and it also very fun to watch.  I was once about 10K into the woods when Beth Heiden and her husband (He now teaches at the college) cam skating by me in perfect unison.  It was unbelievable to watch — they moved so effortlessly it looked like they were dancing.   Skating skiis are shorter and are only waxed for gliding.  Poles are longer than traditional. X-country skiing is definitely a good aerobic exercise, and one of the best ways to get out and enjoy nature!  There is nothing like being 10-20k out into the woods and hear nothing but your skiis, heart, and the snow falling.  Give it a try!! t… Question: I live in Dallas. We have snow once every other year or so. We dream of hills. We don’t ski around here. But we have girlfriends who ski and love it, and we don’t want them enjoying ski trips by themselves, or in the company of some gel-brained raccoon-eyed ski stud. We would prefer to be the one sharing the comfy couch in front of the fire in the rustic lodge. So we are trying to think of ways to stay fit and busy on ski vacations. We cannot take lessons all damn day.

<SNIP

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I am considering taking up cross country skiing for a new change in training and I am wondering what would be the best to take up.  Skating or the traditional style.  I am leaning towards the skating style as it looks like more fun and easier.  Any input would be great!   Thanks Todd

If your goal is fun cross-training, with some good carry over to your cycling (and you have regular access to groomed trails) then by all means go for the skating style.  If you plan to go knocking about off trail, though, then you should also learn the basics of kick & glide skiing.  Skating is fast, powerful, and a great adrenaline rush–especially during the learning phases when your ability to move forward rapidly outstrips your ability to turn or stop.  But it isn’t very adaptable to anything but wider trails which are either groomed or packed firm.  My guess is that if you like X-C skiing at all, you’ll end up learning both styles. (Oh, boy, more expensive sports toys for another season….). — Rick Teichler StorageTek Software Engineering (Louisville, Colorado) For Email replies, use:   teichler <at sweng <dot stortek <dot com

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Question: I live in Dallas. We have snow once every other year or so. We dream of hills.

My condolences. We don’t ski around here. But we have girlfriends who ski and love it, and we don’t want them enjoying ski trips by themselves, or in the company of some gel-brained raccoon-eyed ski stud. We would prefer to be the one sharing the comfy couch in front of the fire in the rustic lodge. So we are trying to think of ways to stay fit and busy on ski vacations. We cannot take lessons all damn day.

Sound logic. One option is snowshoeing. I did some while sneaking away from a conference in Utah last week. It was a blast. But we are not narrow, we try new things.

It’s not easy to sneak away on snowshoes, but… To wit: What is telemarking?

For some (those known as serious pin-heads) it is an ecstatic form of religion.  For most of the rest of us, it is simply another method of making turns on skis.  Using bindings that only hold the toe of the boot, the heel is free to rise up off the ski so that one ski can be behind the other.  It is a very graceful looking turn (at least, once the skill is mastered).  Think of the way most ski jumpers try to land their jumps–that’s what the basic telemark turn position looks like.  I think most people find that becoming proficient at telemark turning takes longer than acquiring equivalent skill doing parallel turns on alpine equipment.  As exercise, it probably hasn’t got the cross-training benefits a competitive triathlete would look for–but, lord, it is fun. Is that the traditional form of cross-country skiing?

The telemark turn evolved on the traditional cross-country ski gear.  Modern boots, bindings, and skis made for telemark enjoyment are much heavier than what most people would use for simple cross-country skiing. Is skating on skis any easier than skating on skates? (If it ain’t, them I’m sticking with snowshoes)

Do you mean easier in effort or in skill?  Skill-wise, I think you’ll find skate-skiing easier than ice skating. The skis are skinny, but they aren’t blades, so your ankles shouldn’t flop over on you.  You have ski poles which can be used for support and balance (although that’s not really what they’re supposed to be used for). Easier in effort?–No. For one thing, except when you have an ice storm in Missouri, skating rinks are built without hills in them.  Skate skiing also uses ski poles, so that your upper body gets a workout akin to swimming.  Hockey players use sticks, but not for propulsion.  (Snowshoes are fun, but there’s no downhill speed, and they don’t glide across level meadows either.) What kind of skis do you get? What are the differences in the skis and poles?

Don’t get any.   Sneak out to Colorado (one or two more Texans during ski season will never be noticed ) and RENT your equipment while taking an easy lesson or two. Find some inexpensive lodging in the Fraser Valley (Fraser or Granby), and then visit Devils Thumb Ranch or Snow Mountain Ranch for a lesson and equipment advice.  (Your girlfriend can satisfy her downhill cravings at nearby Winter Park). Find out what you like, with the recommendations of people who really know their subject, before you buy anything. X-C equipment usually rents cheaper than the downhill stuff, and "try before you buy" is the best advice I can give you–especially since you live where you won’t get weekly use from it. I’m asking these questions here because I don’t think I could stand the laughter on rec.skiing or whatever it is. We are accustomed to the laughter around here.

Yeah, I know–I read Molly Ivins. — Rick Teichler StorageTek Software Engineering (Louisville, Colorado) For Email replies, use:   teichler <at sweng <dot stortek <dot com

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I would say that you should take the lessons for the skate skiing. This will give you alot of info on technique and equipment and you would also have spent part of your day and can be exhausted enough to require a massage from your girlfriend. I live in CO, but am really a warm weather kind of guy. I tried traditional XC skiing and skate skiiing. Traditional is more demanding on technique, skating you can pick up qiucker. Unless you have the time to learn and then practice alot, I would go with skating. AND it will eat your lunch aerobically. I am pretty fit (hmmm?) and for me to go more than a kilometer skating is rare right now. At first you will be stopping for a rest every 100 yards, or less. Have fun, Texas babes.

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I am considering taking up cross country skiing for a new change in training and I am wondering what would be the best to take up.  Skating or the traditional style.  I am leaning towards the skating style as it looks like more fun and easier.  Any input would be great!   Thanks Todd

Todd, Either style will give you a good workout, especially in Calgary. I was told it’s best to learn traditional (classic) first before moving on to skating (freestyle).  Also, if you don’t want to deal with a lot of waxing, a cheap pair of waxless skis can give you a good introduction to the sport (though you may still need to apply some sort of glide wax for some snow conditions). I’m sure there are plenty of others out there who can give better advice than me – I’m in the market for the skating skis myself after a few years of classic skiing. Todd Jensen

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De-lurk mode on:

[snip] I was told it’s best to learn traditional (classic) first before moving on to skating (freestyle).  Also, if you don’t want to deal with a lot of waxing, a cheap pair of waxless skis can give you a good introduction to the sport (though you may still need to apply some sort of glide wax for some snow conditions).

[snip] Todd is probably right in that you will need know the basics in traditional XC-skiing even if you settle for skating. The problem is that the skis for traditional and skating style XC-skiing are quite different, with the skating skis shorter and stiffer. Also the shoes (well, what do you call skiing shoes differ. The shoes used for skating have support for the ankles, while this would only hinder when going traditional style. However, no need to panic. There are shoes (at least by Salomon) which can be used both for skating and traditinal skiing and if you decide to take up skating, you will be able to learn the basics of traditional XC-skiing with a bit shorter skis also. Personally I prefer skating because you are able to go faster and it gives the quads a better workout. Especially in hilly terrain. However, I am not so sure that it is easier to learn than traditional XC-skiing. You will probably be able to pick up the basics pretty fast, but to learn an efficient skating technique will take some time. The good news is that you will get a good workout while learning. Finally, if you settle for skating you will get by with a lot less messing with wax. For me, this is an issue as I rather spend my time skiing than waxing my skis. Of course, you can/should also wax your skating skis, but this is only to lower the friction in order to make you go faster. In traditional style XC-skiing you have to use wax to get some "traction". Hope this helps! niclas —

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Now skating skis are typically a bit shorter, and narrower than classical skis. They are almost completely different ins structure from classic XC skis, although some crossover skiis are made. The poles are longer. That’s about all I know.

There are classical skis that are just as narrow as skating skis — classical racing skis.  Classical skis vary a lot in width, from wide back country skis to narrow racing skis.  Skate skis are all on the narrow side — for racing or high-performance on groomed trails. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I would say that you should take the lessons for the skate skiing. This will give you alot of info on technique and equipment and you would also have spent part of your day and can be exhausted enough to require a massage from your girlfriend. I live in CO, but am really a warm weather kind of guy. I tried traditional XC skiing and skate skiiing. Traditional is more demanding on technique, skating you can pick up qiucker. Unless you have the time to learn and then practice alot, I would go with skating. AND it will eat your lunch aerobically. I am pretty fit (hmmm?) and for me to go more than a kilometer skating is rare right now.

Taking lessons is a good idea.  But you shouldn’t view skating as necessarily very physically demanding.  Because it was popularized as a racing technique most people try to muscle through skating.  But if you have very good technique (particularly good weight distribution) you can learn how to skate at all kinds of intensities — from very light to very heavy.  Lessons will help. JT

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 I have skied both classic and skating for a while now (amassing 4 pairs classic skis and 4 pairs skating skis) and have to say  that both styles really go hand in hand. From the balance and weight transfer from the classic to the aerobic and upper body strength of skating you really get fantastic workouts. I would really say to any beginner skier however that nothing succeeds likes lessons and rentals. You will get better and enjoy the whole experience so much more if you are not foundering. The quality workouts come from being able to sustain the speed over a variety of terrain.  Anyways, it’s better than being on a windtrainer anyday. Also in the Tahoe region there are a lot of great races that you can get in on for both classic and skating, both short 10k and longer marathons. I hope you stay with it, you will enjoy the variety it gives to your workouts. Lynne Mac

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I tried traditional XC skiing and skate skiiing. Traditional is more demanding on technique, skating you can pick up qiucker.

I respectfully disagree with this. Traditional is a very natural motion for runners to pick up, whereas skating requires alot of coordination and balance. I’ve done both, and find traditional is ALOT easier to master. I do agree with Treemoss’ comment (not shown) that skating is much harder than traditional aerobically speaking. -Rolf — I am Iron Mac.            The Ironman is over in the blink of an eye.                                                    Enjoy it! IMC’94/14:07    IMC’95/11:59    IMC’97/12:12    IMC’98/Confirmed

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There is a beauty to both forms of XC skiing.  As with anything requiring a new skill, time and practice is required.  Just as you spend time perfecting a swim stroke you should also spend time learning a ski technique.  There is really no reason to put down one style over the other.  Both are beautiful to do and to watch done well. Lynne Mac

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: I respectfully disagree with this. : : Traditional is a very natural motion for runners to pick : up, whereas skating requires alot of coordination and : balance. : : I’ve done both, and find traditional is ALOT easier to master. : I do agree with Treemoss’ comment (not shown) that skating is : much harder than traditional aerobically speaking. : : -Rolf I think that this is from a technique deficit. <sorry! I’ve never seen you ski Skating is by far a more efficient technique <when done correctly. When the skating revolution began, it was thought that the classic style would never be used again until people realized that it gave consistantly higher heartrates during training. I think that classic is more aerobically demanding, while skating requires more muscular strength. My .02. jw — Ride the fast parts fast, slow parts slow, sometimes the slow parts fast…but NEVER ride the fast parts slow!

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Question: I live in Dallas. We have snow once every other year or so. We dream of hills. We don’t ski around here. But we have girlfriends who ski and love it, and we don’t want them enjoying ski trips by themselves, or in the company of some gel-brained raccoon-eyed ski stud. We would prefer to be the one sharing the comfy couch in front of the fire in the rustic lodge. So we are trying to think of ways to stay fit and busy on ski vacations. We cannot take lessons all damn day. One option is snowshoeing. I did some while sneaking away from a conference in Utah last week. It was a blast. But we are not narrow, we try new things. To wit: What is telemarking? Is that the traditional form of cross-country skiing? Is skating on skis any easier than skating on skates? (If it ain’t, them I’m sticking with snowshoes) What kind of skis do you get? What are the differences in the skis and poles? I’m asking these questions here because I don’t think I could stand the laughter on rec.skiing or whatever it is. We are accustomed to the laughter around here. Skate! It is the way for the cross training triathlete, not to mention ez to pick up Quick. Tom

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

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I am considering taking up cross country skiing for a new change in training and I am wondering what would be the best to take up.  Skating or the traditional style.  I am leaning towards the skating style as it looks like more fun and easier.  Any input would be great!   Thanks Todd

Response:

What is telemarking? Is that the traditional form of cross-country skiing? Is skating on skis any easier than skating on skates? (If it ain’t, them I’m sticking with snowshoes) What kind of skis do you get? What are the differences in the skis and poles?

Telemarking is XC downhill technique, or the way your parents skied as kids.  It is a technique that requires one’s heels to be free. The outside leg is thrust forward, and the rear knee is dropped, and the turn is executed. Its a little more complicated, but you get the drift. And don’t take telemarking lightly, last year one contestant in the World Extreme Skiing Championships skied telemark.  If a downhiller can ski it, a telemarker can ski it sweetly, but with way more practice. Now skating skis are typically a bit shorter, and narrower than classical skis. They are almost completely different ins structure from classic XC skis, although some crossover skiis are made. The poles are longer. That’s about all I know. Robbo — Rob Blomquist aka TriDog Seattle, WA http://www.accessone.com/~robb To send me email, remove the nomorespam from my domain name.

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Skate! It is the way for the cross training triathlete, not to mention ez to pick up Quick. Tom

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Question:

I saw a broadcast of a triathalon with this format about a month ago on the SportsChannel (not ESPN).  It was held in Australia with about 15 professional competitors.  Unfortunately I didn’t recognize any of the names at the time and can’t recall any of them now.  The race was held over two days.  The first day was an open water out and back swim (wetsuits allowed).  The bike and run were both held on day 2.  Again, I can’t remember the winning time or any of the splits, but the format does exist.  If you want to dig deeper, maybe this is enough info to get started.

This race took place earlier in the year and was won by Craig Walton , recognise the name now?? (he just won Mrs T’s). it was a pure time trial event with the swim first and all athletes starting seperately. Next there was a bike time trial with athletes starting 3(?) minutes apart , and finally a 10 k with starting times depending on current placing. This race was also part of the ITGP series. DEFINITELY no drafting at all. Brad Beven was favored however crashed quite spectacuarly early in the bike leg. Ross – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chad

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Has anyone ever held a triathlon in a decathalon format say over 12 hours, to detirmine the world’s best time. Swim: 1500 meters in an olympic pool Bike: 40K in time trial format Run: 10k on the track If anyone knows of any race held in this manner could they post the results up for me!!!!

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IMHO, until someone designs and builds an "official" triathlon-specific venue, there will never be a recognized triathlon world record. "Life’s a brick" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Has anyone ever held a triathlon in a decathalon format say over 12 hours, to detirmine the world’s best time. Swim: 1500 meters in an olympic pool Bike: 40K in time trial format Run: 10k on the track If anyone knows of any race held in this manner could they post the results up for me!!!!

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—snip— : : I don’t think I put the question clearly. : : Has anyone experimented with a race over the Olympic distances to detirmine : the best athlete without the requirement of having transitions. : : For example you could select the best 8 athletes in the world and make them : race at an Olmpic pool & track in the morning and have a time trial format : in the evening. : : I was interested in the times each athlete would be able to achieve in the : individual events. : : I know this format has been used for some low key races before but I have : never heard of it beibg done at an elite level. : : It would be a very interesting race and would detirmine the fastest all : round athlete, : not just the best endurance athlete who is probably excellent in the : transitions as well. No, but there was something that came close. I vaguely remember the "UltraMan (?)" in Hawaii every November. It was a 3 day race with a combo swim/bike on the first day. Finishing the bike on the second, and an ultramarathon on the third day. I don’t know what the distances were, but they were loooooong! I don’t know if it is still going, since I haven’t heard anything from that race in over 3 years. "Iron Pete" Priolo Sub 10 hour IMC’97 —Countdown:19 days until D-Day!!!

Response:

IMHO, until someone designs and builds an "official" triathlon-specific venue, there will never be a recognized triathlon world record. Has anyone ever held a triathlon in a decathalon format say over 12 hours, to detirmine the world’s best time. Swim: 1500 meters in an olympic pool Bike: 40K in time trial format Run: 10k on the track

I don’t think I put the question clearly. Has anyone experimented with a race over the Olympic distances to detirmine the best athlete without the requirement of having transitions. For example you could select the best 8 athletes in the world and make them race at an Olmpic pool & track in the morning and have a time trial format in the evening. I was interested in the times each athlete would be able to achieve in the individual events. I know this format has been used for some low key races before but I have never heard of it beibg done at an elite level. It would be a very interesting race and would detirmine the fastest all round athlete, not just the best endurance athlete who is probably excellent in the transitions as well.

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No, but there was something that came close. I vaguely remember the "UltraMan (?)" in Hawaii every November. It was a 3 day race with a combo swim/bike on the first day. Finishing the bike on the second, and an ultramarathon on the third day. I don’t know what the distances were, but they were loooooong! I don’t know if it is still going, since I haven’t heard anything from that race in over 3 years. "Iron Pete" Priolo

Ultraman is definitely still around, Pete. There was a big article on it in IT last November. The guy who won blazed the double marathon segment in something under 5 hours. Yikes. Chaz

Response:

Iron Pete, They just had a race similiar to what you are looking for in Australia. They did an individual 1.5k swim in a river and recorded their finish times. The next day they did a 40k time trial in the morning and then they did a 10k run in the afternoon. For the run they started the person with the fastest cumlative times for the swim and bike first and then the others started in ascending order after the time they were behind. So the first to cross the line was the overall champ. It was on TV a few weeks ago and there is an article in this months Triathlete or Inside Tri, I cannot remember which one I saw it in. Anyways, Craig Walton won the race. Brad Beven crashed on the bike and was out of it from the beginning. Tom Hyslip

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (TUCKERNEW) writes: A.J. I’ll be at both and will look out for you.  I’m assuming that our Multi-Sport School of Champions training will have prepared us for these races.  I look forward to comparing notes with you races days. Tucker Newberry Is anyone keeping a list of RSTers going to Columbia?  I plan on being there, though racing it is yet to be determined.  What’s the lake temp – anyone know? -hug

I stop by the lake the other day during lunch, it was real cold. I will take my thermometer over there later this week and post the results. It is ashallow lake and can warm up quickly if we get some sun this week. TriRef aka Bruce Platt

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Is anyone keeping a list of RSTers going to Columbia?  I plan on being there, though racing it is yet to be determined.  

I’ll be there, hoping I’ve done enough in the last two months to get in shape for it.                                         — John — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

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I am racing at Columbia Maryland on May 18, Virginia on the 25th,and June 1 for the Ironman Qualifier (1/2 Iron Man) is anyone else going to be at these races?                                                   Tri-Freak                         Swim – Bike – Run : What else is there?

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I am racing at Columbia Maryland on May 18, Virginia on the 25th,and June 1 for the Ironman Qualifier (1/2 Iron Man) is anyone else going to be at these races?                                                 Tri-Freak                         Swim – Bike – Run : What else is there?

I’ll be at Columbia! (so no drafting!) TriRef

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A.J. I’ll be at both and will look out for you.  I’m assuming that our Multi-Sport School of Champions training will have prepared us for these races.  I look forward to comparing notes with you races days. Tucker Newberry

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(TUCKERNEW) writes: A.J. I’ll be at both and will look out for you.  I’m assuming that our Multi-Sport School of Champions training will have prepared us for these races.  I look forward to comparing notes with you races days. Tucker Newberry

Is anyone keeping a list of RSTers going to Columbia?  I plan on being there, though racing it is yet to be determined.  What’s the lake temp – anyone know? -hug

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Has anyone gotten their Columbia triathlon entry form for the May race?             Harry

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No – Robert sent them out one year presorted third class, but learned his lesson. We’ll probably see them by the end of the month. If you were there last year, don’t worry … you’ll get one. PRAY FOR COLD WEATHER

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If you’re talking about Columbia, MD, I got mine!!!!  I’ll probably be one of the first, living about 3/4 mile from the course, so don’t despair, they’re on the way! BTW, since this is my first Columbia race, I don’t know if I should check of Age Group or Open.  Is there an advantage to either?  Just a note, I don’t plan on taking home any trophies, maybe a war wound or two, but definitely no wining times. Paul Gimbel "Try-Athlete"

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Don’t say pray for cold weather!! I did one in May, 1991 and it was so cold, they allowed help in the bike to run transition, as the athletes were frozen onto their $3000 seats

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Question:

         hello  I have just started training for the new season.I have been having problems with my foot. When I first went to my school’s trainer, she said my injury was caused by the fact that my sneakers were worn out on the inside and that once I got new sneakers, it should be fine. I got new sneakers, the same exact kind that I had before. My foot was fine until……I did a workout on a track with tight curves. I ran in one direction and since then my foot has been very painful.  the trainer said that it was because of this workout that my foot was hurting again.  I have only run on the track once more since then but I switched directions continuously.  I mostly have been running on the street, but my foot still hurts. Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not my trainer was right? Could it be a more serious problem?  Should I stop running completely until the pain stops?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Thank you.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –          hello  I have just started training for the new season.I have been having problems with my foot. When I first went to my school’s trainer, she said my injury was caused by the fact that my sneakers were worn out on the inside and that once I got new sneakers, it should be fine. I got new sneakers, the same exact kind that I had before. My foot was fine until……I did a workout on a track with tight curves. I ran in one direction and since then my foot has been very painful.  the trainer said that it was because of this workout that my foot was hurting again.  I have only run on the track once more since then but I switched directions continuously.  I mostly have been running on the street, but my foot still hurts. Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not my trainer was right? Could it be a more serious problem?  Should I stop running completely until the pain stops?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Thank you.

Sorry, but I haven’t any idea what could be wrong with your foot from what you’ve written, or if I think your trainer was right or wrong.  But one thing that bothers me is that you keep using the word "sneaker."  By sneaker, do you mean a proper and quality running shoe for your type feet and the type running you do?  If not, I believe a good start toward a solution would be to go to a good running store with knowlegeable salespeople and outfit your feet as correctly as possible. —- JAM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985. While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was easily the most significant single factor. I started training again last spring (triathlon oriented) and, despite very low mileage by my earlier norms, seem to be more prone to ankle sprains than ever. I went out for a 90 minute run over the holidays and rolled over (once again) on my left ankle. It was about as mild a sprain as I have ever encountered and I probably could have continued to run, but I’ve learned to take it easy on these things. So I alternated a slow jog (maybe 8:30-9:00 pace) and walking (it was just a little too chilly to simply walk the 3 miles back to my car). Well, I rolled over on my ankle AGAIN while jogging slowly! This one was severe enough to make even walking difficult, so I ended up flagging a ride. I’ll probably be off the roads for 5 days and won’t be able to run pain free for a couple of weeks (these things get real predictable after you’ve done them about 50 times). Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle "cast" (don’t know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell, but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2). Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them. It is always my left ankle. I’ve got a slightly high arch and always roll to the outside. I’m not sure why but my footplant on the right side is ‘normal’ (land on my heel unless sprinting), but I’ve always landed on the outside of the ball of my foot on my left side. I don’t know if this is a factor or not. It always happens when I step on "something", but that something can be a stick the size of a pencil if it is placed in just the right place under my foot. Ideas or help out there? Thanks. dave leePersistant ankle sprains is a nemesis for those experiencing it. It can

take 6-10 years and longer to get to a point where there is "fair" stabilization and then out of nowhere hit an edge in the sidewalk and "invert" or twist the ankle again. The key to stabilization is two part. First is "passive" exercises to strengthen the muscles around the ankle, second is to create a condition of "cellular memory" to the soft tissues (muscles, tendons, ligaments and fascia) around the ankle. The way to do this is with a support or orthotic. By keeping the structures in their best alignment will reduce stress and strain to those tissues allowing "memory" to take hold. Understand that this is not a cure as there is no cure. —  Dennis Kiper, D.P.M. 800-DR KIPER http://www.DrKiper.com

Response:

I had the same problem several years ago.  I am a severe under pronator and break down my shoe on the outside in the forefoot.  I use to turn my ankle at least once a month.  My answer was two fold: 1) find a shoe that had a wider front sole and no pronation control. Change shoes every 300 miles (i violate this rule recently and turned my ankle at about 320 miles).  My best luck has been with Avia Lantra and Tinley trainers (both now un available and my reserves are running out..).  Added to that are perscription orthotics that have helped a lot by actually inducing pronation. 2) strengthing my ankle with resistance training.  when my shins got stronger my problems were significantly reduced. Combining both of these should help a lot.  Until your ankle get stronger, stick to smooth surfaces and keep you eyes open. Good luck. Neal Silver Spring, MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985. While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was easily the most significant single factor. I started training again last spring (triathlon oriented) and, despite very low mileage by my earlier norms, seem to be more prone to ankle sprains than ever. I went out for a 90 minute run over the holidays and rolled over (once again) on my left ankle. It was about as mild a sprain as I have ever encountered and I probably could have continued to run, but I’ve learned to take it easy on these things. So I alternated a slow jog (maybe 8:30-9:00 pace) and walking (it was just a little too chilly to simply walk the 3 miles back to my car). Well, I rolled over on my ankle AGAIN while jogging slowly! This one was severe enough to make even walking difficult, so I ended up flagging a ride. I’ll probably be off the roads for 5 days and won’t be able to run pain free for a couple of weeks (these things get real predictable after you’ve done them about 50 times). Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle "cast" (don’t know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell, but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2). Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them. It is always my left ankle. I’ve got a slightly high arch and always roll to the outside. I’m not sure why but my footplant on the right side is ‘normal’ (land on my heel unless sprinting), but I’ve always landed on the outside of the ball of my foot on my left side. I don’t know if this is a factor or not. It always happens when I step on "something", but that something can be a stick the size of a pencil if it is placed in just the right place under my foot. Ideas or help out there? Thanks. dave lee

Response:

Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains? I can’t say I’ve sprained my ankle, but I have twisted my ankle dozens of times.  It most always occurs on the same ankle and I attribute that to the following… My right leg is significantly shorter which causes me to naturally compensate for the difference by reaching with the outside of my foot in order to lengthen my step.  This position of the foot upon landing has to lead to increased chance of ankle injuries. Just a thought.

When you sprain your ankle, two Bad Things happen:  (1) The ligaments (almost always the ones on the outside of the ankle) stretch, and, unfortunately, never unstretch.  (2) You tend to lose proprioceptive sensation in that ankle — that is, the sense of where in space that ankle is located.  These two Bad Things together mean that (1) there is a tendency for this now weak and confused ankle to get sprained again, and (2) there is a tendency to develop shin pain as the tendons there take up the slack for the ankle’s weakness and confusion. Think about possible solutions.  First, consider seeing a physical therapist for treatment and exercise prescriptions.  If you want to risk a do-it-yourself approach based on the suggestions of an unknown and possibly dangerously ignorant stranger on the Internet, then *strengthen the ankle* with resistance exercises — for example, using shock cord looped around your foot and some immoveable object such as a heavy table leg, and by standing on one foot (first on flat ground and then on an uneven pillow, first with your eyes open and then with your eyes closed)… and, of course, *stretch and ice* after every exercie session. And, next time you sprain your ankle, IMMEDIATELY use rest, ice, compression, elevation, and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.  DO NOT DELAY, do not be macho, do not be strong, do not be brave.  Rest it, ice it, tape it, and lie back with a cool drink with the ankle elevated. Good luck! — Steve

Response:

What has seemed to work for me is doing exercises with a "wobble board". It’s a round piece of wood with a ball on the bottom. I use it at work while on the phone. It is supposed to both strengthen the ankle and (laymen terms) make your neurons used to the rolling sensation so it can snap back without a sprain. Let me know how it works out for you.

Response:

Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains?

Dave, I can offer the following advice: 1) Shoes – It sounds like you are a "supplenator",(sp?), also know as an "under pronator" (as am I), which basically means you’re foot wants to roll to the outside. Using the correct shoes for your foot will help prevent sprains. The problem is most people are "under pronators", so shoes that correct for "under pronation" are hard to find. A good running shoe store should be able to help you. 2) Strengthen your ankles – There are alot of exersises you can do, but my favorate is in-line skating. You will get the greatest benefit if you skate as agressivly as possible – lots of turns, stops, spins. etc. Roller/ Ice hockey is good, too. It’s help me alot. Good Luck, Mark

Response:

Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains?

I can’t say I’ve sprained my ankle, but I have twisted my ankle dozens of times.  It most always occurs on the same ankle and I attribute that to the following… My right leg is significantly shorter which causes me to naturally compensate for the difference by reaching with the outside of my foot in order to lengthen my step.  This position of the foot upon landing has to lead to increased chance of ankle injuries. Just a thought. — Jay Engel               AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona                         Phone: (602) 582-7324

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        Hi Dave…you need to do some proprioceptive re-training of that ankle! Email me for details… I don’t want to dissect everything today I don’t want to pick you apart you see But I can’t help it Alanis Morissette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains?

Response:

    The company has a toll-free number you can call to get a list of dealers in your area.  (My information is several years old–I hope this is still the correct number).  It’s     1-800-800-2896 The company’s address (again, this is old information) is       Active Ankle Systems      451 Baxter Avenue      Louisville, KY  40204

I agree. These ankle braces are really great! I ordered mine from road runner sports about 2 months ago: Road Runner Sports 6150 Nancy Ridge Drive San Diego, Ca. 92121 (800) 636-3560 Nan

Response:

Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains?

[snip]     I do a lot of orienteering, which means I do a lot of running OFF-trail.  Many orienteers (including myself) swear by an ankle support called Active Ankle.  It’s a hard plastic support with Velcro straps and a hinge that makes it virtually impossible to turn your ankle over sideways.  But it gives you a lot of forward and backward flexibility and is surprising comfortable to wear.  The only disadvantage it that it’s kind of heavy but that’s a small price to pay to not have to worry anymore about ankle sprains.     The company has a toll-free number you can call to get a list of dealers in your area.  (My information is several years old–I hope this is still the correct number).  It’s     1-800-800-2896 The company’s address (again, this is old information) is       Active Ankle Systems      451 Baxter Avenue      Louisville, KY  40204 Hope this helps.  Good luck! –Steve Gregg

Response:

Dave Lee asks: | Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent | ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985. | While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was | easily the most significant single factor. | | | Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before | running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle | "cast" (don’t know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell, | but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2). David, As a trail runner and consummate face planter, not discounting the numerous close calls with ankle twists, I tape before I hit the uneven trails. When I say tape I mean the Johnson & Johnson 1 1/2 inch athletic tape. Elastic bandage is basically useless to prevent the weak ankle from twisting. I also see plastic ankle supports that usually come from Podiatrists or Orthopods but I suspect these are  sold commercially. Considering your problem and love of running you might want to pursue this. These fit over your sock and are probably velcro’ed in place. | | Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically | learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a | shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both | balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but | there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting | better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them. I’m not a foot doc but I’m told(means, no professional just anecdotal) that once those muscles/tendons have been stretched as yours, it is difficult if not impossible to get then to return to full strength. Assuming they can be PT’ed to full strength, you will need to either tape or strap on the support until you are back to normal.  Frankly, I prefer to run with support and remove the constant fear. If you need a taping technique, just Email. I doubt the masses want to hear how to tape an ankle. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

Response:

Is there anyone out there who ever solved the problem of persistent ankle sprains? I did alot of running from 1978 until around 1985. While ankle sprains were not the only reason for quitting, that was easily the most significant single factor. I started training again last spring (triathlon oriented) and, despite very low mileage by my earlier norms, seem to be more prone to ankle sprains than ever. I went out for a 90 minute run over the holidays and rolled over (once again) on my left ankle. It was about as mild a sprain as I have ever encountered and I probably could have continued to run, but I’ve learned to take it easy on these things. So I alternated a slow jog (maybe 8:30-9:00 pace) and walking (it was just a little too chilly to simply walk the 3 miles back to my car). Well, I rolled over on my ankle AGAIN while jogging slowly! This one was severe enough to make even walking difficult, so I ended up flagging a ride. I’ll probably be off the roads for 5 days and won’t be able to run pain free for a couple of weeks (these things get real predictable after you’ve done them about 50 times).   Has anyone ever found an answer to this? I always wrap my ankle before running (elastic bandage) and I have a custom made leather ankle "cast" (don’t know what else to call it) that is uncomfortable as hell, but I guess I could go back to it (probably cost me 2 minutes at T2). Long ago I did visit an orthopedic surgeon twice where I basically learned that my ankle infrastructure is pretty bad (that was certainly a shocker).  I also had some physical therapy exercizes aimed at both balance and strength. I did those pretty religiously for a while, but there was never any kind of real feedback to say "this is getting better". Then I sprained my ankle again and quit doing them. It is always my left ankle. I’ve got a slightly high arch and always roll to the outside. I’m not sure why but my footplant on the right side is ‘normal’ (land on my heel unless sprinting), but I’ve always landed on the outside of the ball of my foot on my left side. I don’t know if this is a factor or not. It always happens when I step on "something", but that something can be a stick the size of a pencil if it is placed in just the right place under my foot. Ideas or help out there? Thanks. dave lee

Response:

Question:

Josh, Whether one agrees with your thoughts or not, your detailed and sincere assesment of drafting in triathlons is a positive contribution to the on-going dialogue.  Keep up the good work. Cory H.

Response:

Josh Allen Writes: Attacks on integrity always prompt me to write. I apologize to anyone who may have not understood the intent of my previous post. I was making a perhaps too subtle attempt to make apparent the future attitude of some traithletes.

                        snip….snip Josh, Your objectivity was not lost to all of us.  I enjoyed your posts and appreciate your position.  Of all the bafflegab surrounding drafting that I’ve read in recent months, these were the only ones that said anything new and substantive. Bruce Ackman Shields up Mr.Sulu…..

Response:

Attacks on integrity always prompt me to write. I apologize to anyone who may have not understood the intent of my previous post. I was making a perhaps too subtle attempt to make apparent the future attitude of some traithletes. With the exponential increase in the poularity of triathlon thanks to drafting, we will see more money being infused into the sport and thus the age-groupers will be racing for money. Cutthroat tactics and parasitic atheltes intent on only making a few bucks will be prevalent in the age group ranks much like in USCF racing. The days of race T-shirt pride will be gone along with the willingness to help out a fellow athlete just because they were in the race with you. Now everyone will be competition. I will continue to race Tom’s races. The reason why is not money. I probably won’t win again. The reason is that Tom is a nice person who looks to promote the growth of our sport through his Family Fitness weekends. He creates cosecutive nights of fun for an entire family, culminating in a fun and organized triathlon which can be enjoyed by everyone. His races have been there for me since I started doing triathlons, and I will be there for him until he decides that he won’t put on another race. Concerning integrity and support of beliefs: I do not support drafting. i will not support drafting–unless my lack of support   hurts what our sport was founded upon (local races like Tom’s). Mr. Zagarino questions my integrity, but I can guarantee that he will not see me at an ITU race ever again. Any organization that bans athletes because of semantics and the demands an apology from them for making a living and supporting a friend doesn’t have the interest of the sport at heart. It shows that there are a bunch of businessmen posing as athletes who are behaving in a dictatorial manner. The ITU’s "experiments" with drafting have done nothing for the sport except allow it to gain considerable control by creating dissention among athletes and race directors. Out of the bedlam comes a new, more powerful ITU, ready to crush your sport into oblivion so that Coca-Cola and MTV will give it money. The ITU came close to getting Triathlon into the Olympics, but I think some other group needs to finish the job. If you threw a party and nobody came, would it still be the wrold’s best party just because the banner said so? An athlete boycott of Worlds may be disatrous for the sport, but I think that true triathletes and the multisport spirit will easily survive. Not going to worlds will probably hurt my career and I know the ITU doesn’t give a damn about my meager age-group presence, but they will not see me there Sincerely, Mr. Out Of Control, Josh Allen

Response:

This sounds like fun.  I’m going to register for Tom Ziebart’s next race as an elite so I can draft legally.  Of course I’ll give up my chances at an age group award, but since I rarely get one anyway, why not? My swim isn’t fast enough to catch the elite pack, but it doesn’t matter since I’ll be in the first wave and I can suck wheel off the top age groupers in the waves behind me as they pass.  I should be able to average 23-24 MPH instead of the usual 20-21.  Only problem is that drafting is illegal for them so I won’t be able to draft off any big packs or pace lines. Maybe the idea will catch on and the entire field will register for the elite wave.  Wouldn’t that be fun?  Can you just see a pack of 500 cyclists entering the transition area all at once? #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

Response:

One week has now passed since I raced in Boca Raton. The race was the Gatorade Triathlon Series race #2 (?). The Boca Sprintman. Drafting was legal in the elite waves, in which anyone with the desire can enter. Age-groupers followed standard Tri-Fed rules. Race distance was 1/2 mile swim, 10 mile bike, and 3 mile run. The race was held at Spanish River Park in Boca Raton, FL on June 12th. In the past, I have spouted off about how I don’t like drafting legalization. However, I hadn’t raced in a draft legal race so I couldn’t really make an educated judgement. Now, I have. I am presenting my experiences so that those of you without the ability to race in draft legal fashion can start to form more well informed opinions. My opinions will be given as a reply to this post if you care to read them. Race morning was cool (for florida) but as soon as the sun rose the heat began (and the humidity). The swim was in the Atlantic, and was a three sided rectangle. Out ~50 meters, north ~700 meters, in ~50 meters. The water temp was 81 degrees, and it was perfectly clear (the water-you could see the bottom adn the stingrays) and glass calm. The race began with a beach start.       With about ten seconds to go the announcer counted down. With about four seconds to go, a few people started. With about 3.5 seconds left, everyone started. I hit the first buoy in third place, but was quickly followed by a large pack which included several talented swimmers. After the turn, I jumped on second place’s feet, and tried to hang on. Didn’t happen. First and second took off like they were swimming 100 repeats and I was left to lead the chase pack with a swimmer from FAU. We exited the water about 45 seconds back from the leaders and headed for the transistion area. The transition involved running about 400 meters through a tunnel, twisty cancrete paths, and chipped wood. The elite wave’s bikes were racked in the south end, and the exit was in the north end of the transition. The bike course exited the park quickly and headed south on A1A (completely flat) for 5 miles. Out and back. Flat and fast. No wind.      I just got a set of "Pedal Power" platforms from Wil Compton in the hopes that this race would be close enough that I would need them. At this point it wasn’t. By looking at the bikes, I could tell that Chip Martoccia (a DeGeorge team member) and Bob Belzer (of TYR age-group Excellence fame) were the studly swimmers. I fumbled with my pedals and quickly set about chasing these boys down. In the transistion the FAU swimmer had gotten ahead of me and as soon as I hit A1A, I caught him. Now the differences of a draft legal race came out.      I passed FAU boy and he instantly jumped on my wheel. I pulled a bit, and when I tried to pull off, he wouldn’t come through (to the front, for draft lingo challenged). I then tried to get rid of him by weaving side to side and surging. He eventually pulled through, and asked if I knew the race was draft legal. Yes, but I didn’t want to give him a free ride! I saw that we weren’t going any faster with just the two of us (he didn’t pull), so I sat up (literally) drank a bit and waited for a follwing pack of three to catch us. After about 15 seconds of 15 mph riding, we became a pack of five. Abilities ranged in this group immensly. It included a couple of weaker cyclists (~1:00-1:02 40K ability) a couple of ~59:00-1:02 cyclists, and myself (Triathlon 40K split PR: 57:02). Everyone worked to help the pack go faster by pulling through. Some would spend longer at the front than others. Everyone in the pack probably worked the same amount by the end of the ride.We worked together to catch Chip, but by the transition area, we hadn’t cought him at all. Chip is very strong on the bike. (for a less objective account, you have to check out my comments). He entered the transition area still about 1:00 up on us. The run exited the transition area midway through it and went through a mulch covered path for about 200 meters before hitting pavement. It wound through the park for about 1/2 mile before going out and back along A1A. Flat, fast, with the park being pretty twisty.      I exited the transition about :35 behind Chip (thanks to "Pedal Power"!!!) by means of an instant transition, and because the run started on the trail, I couldn’t see him. I ran hard in the hopes that something had happened to make him walk the run, but I pretty much thought it was over. I caught a glimpse of him through the trees, so I knew that I had to give it my all. By checking how long it took for me to pass a landmark he had passed, I figured out that I was gaining on him at the rate of about :12 per mile. That meant I would catch him about 100 meters AFTER the finish. I gutted it out and cut his lead to half by the turnaround. Through the park again I made up time by running FAST through the turns (mostly tight 90 degree turns) while hoping he would slack up a bit. With 200 meters to go, I was on his shoulder. I surged to see if he would stay with me. He did, so it came down to a sprint. 100 meters to go and I threw down the hammer and tried to get away. THis time I shook him and powered to a slim 2 second victory and the $500 first place check. Post race amenities were great, and everyone seemed happy. The sea lice didn’t seem to be too bad (I got away without them). I had to head back home for work, so I missed the awards ceremony. Can’t fill you in on that. Tom Ziebart put on a classy race and I will definitely be racing future ones. The race will be televised on Tuesday, 20 June on PRIME network. For you southeast folks, that’s the sunshine channel. My opinions in the followup post

Response:

The next race in the Gatorade Triathlon Series will be this weekend in Key Biscyane – elite drafting will be allowed.  Also – No sea lice expected. Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Response:

Josh You could possibly sit out a few draft legal events and make a few bucks selling your race coverage to a big magazine.   As far as wetsuit use by elites racing for $$$s in 81 degree water for 1/2 mile – stupid move.  Using rubber leggings is more ridiculous.  I am not a good swimmer, and look forward to races which have water temps below 78 degrees.  But I guess I’ve lost that competive neurosis which would let me justify using the suit in hot water because I didn’t want to give up those precious seconds. If the athletes themselves would enforce sportsmanship, we might not see so much of the borderline cheating/stretching the rules. Good story, Josh.  Go Gators Rick Margiotta, TriFedPrez

Response:

<<Snip race report I will race more of Tom Ziebart’s draft fests simply because I have the chance of winning money. When it comes to paying rent, college kids will do anything. If it comes down to supporting drafting and getting cash for rent or not supporting drafting and sleeping in a tent, you know where i will go. I do not support drafting. I will not support drafting legalization.

Josh: That is what I admire about the youth of today. Their willingness to take a stand and fight for what they belive in. Makes me nostalgic for the sixties. Let me see if I have this straight. You think drafting is immoral, you don’t like it and you continually post how it will ruin the sport. BUT, if you can make money at it, you’ll do it and then slam it on Monday morning. Ah,the idealism of youth. I must be in a flame kind of mood this morning, but this one really set me off. Go ‘noles. ZAG

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Sorry about the multiple posts. It is 1:30 a.m. and I’m a little spacy. I went to the bathroom and forgot that I had posted it. Anyway, here’s what I thought of the whole race. Swim-same, except the water was 81 degrees and there were elite athletes wearing wetsuits! 81 degrees. Tom allowed rubber jockeys to compete for prizes anyway, which I think was a nose snubbing to TRI-Fed and common sense. NOBODY needs a wetsuit for a 1/2 mile swim in 81 degree water. The elites who wore them are taking advantage of the rules. I didn’t wear one and I swear that I will never wear one in water over 74 degrees again. Elite athletes who do are cheaters. To me, that’s worse than drafting in a non-drafting race. If you’re a horrible swimmer and MUST have a wetsuit, then you probably won’t be in contention for prizes anyway. One of the elites was wearing a pair of wesuit PANTS. No top to get hot, just a 5mm layer of neoprene aroung his legs to provide floatation. I feel a quote coming on….something like: Any populsion device…or flotation device shall be illegal. Tri-fed prez or Mr. Platt, what do you think? Bike-The pack of five consisted of cyclists who I am never near. I have competed with all of the members of the pack and I have always outsplit them. In a standard race I could have ridden away from them with ease, but in this race I couldn’t drop them. Their pulling did nothing to lower my bike split (time wise) but they did lessen my energy expenditure. I came off the bike with about the sam split I could have had, but my legs would have been trashed. Now, they were tired, but I still had snap in them. Even with drafting, you still had to work hard, but the intermittent rest let’s you get off the bike a bit fresher. We didn’t put any time on Chip, but I didn’t work as hard as him.      Alternate possibilities- 1) If I had been with two other cyclists of high level, The three of us could have probably caught Chip and all have been fresh. 2) If I had had a good swim, I would have been near Chip so that he and I could have worked together. We would have put massive time on the rest of the field but it would have come down to who was a better runner. 3) The pack has a few excellent runners. We keep the same interval on Chip, but the runners do no work and hop off and run 15:00 for the 3 miles. They win, and all they did was swim fast enough to get in the pack. Run-My fresher legs allowed me to run Chip down, though by the end (final sprint) I think our legs were on even ground. I was a miler in high school, so I have a bit of kick and that allowed me to win. Bottom line-    The race was very exciting (for me and for spectators). They got to see someone from this pack of five (which looked good and worked well together) chase down the front runner. The TV show should be great. This is one example of drafting making race more exciting, though I can think of other situations where it would be a ho-hummer. I do think that this race would be pretty typical of a drafting race.    If I hadn’t drafted, I would not have caught Chip. period. I would have had to work harder on the bike and there is no way I would have averaged 5:30 per mile if I had.    The strongest runner of the draft pack won. True, but the strongest runner of the race got second because he killed himself on the bike. If Chip had been brave (or stupid) enough, he would have lollygagged the bike, gotten in with us, and let the race be a 3 mile run between me and him. Winner–?? it would have been up for grabs then.    Chip almost won. If I hadn’t had the platform pedals, My transition would have been longer and I would have lost. If I had not hesitated and helped some guy unzip his wetsuit, I may have won by 4 seconds. If I had not run excessively hard in the first 800 meters when I couldn’t tell how far ahead Chip was, I would have lost. With all of the small things that can change a race like that, the drafting becomes less important. Even though he didn’t get the draft, Chip almost won the race. I had to shave off a bunch of seconds other places to win. Drafting alone didn’t do it.    I will probably race a draft legal race again. This is one thing that has changed. Draft legal races are still triathlons. It takes proficiency at three sports to be successful. Drafting changes the strategy of the race drastically. Watch a cycling race and change channels to a 10K run as soon as the sprint is over. That is how Professional Draft-legal races will eventually evolve. The swim will be negated (against popular belief) unless the person is an incredible swimmer and cyclist and can keep that gap for the run (a la Benjamin Sanson crossed with Mike Pigg–which doesn’t exist). There will be tactical racing on the bike (18 mph sunday rides) unless a group of non-runners tries to break away from the runners. The run will either be slow (if the non-runners get a big enough break) or will become a 10K road race with time approaching that of straight road races. It’s still a triathlon in that pros will have to be at least good enough to assure that you get in the lead pack, but you can bet that they will be spending more time on the track than on the bike. Personally- Still don’t like it. Won’t like it. Won $500 bucks because of it and have no guilt about taking it. It takes away the individual nature of the sport and does create team-oriented tactics. I will race more of Tom Ziebart’s draft fests simply because I have the chance of winning money. When it comes to paying rent, college kids will do anything. If it comes down to supporting drafting and getting cash for rent or not supporting drafting and sleeping in a tent, you know where i will go. I do not support drafting. I will not support drafting legalization. I don’t think that drafting will last. Josh Allen

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I started playing soccer again.  I found my mouth completely dry after about 15 minutes : of running.  I talked to an acquaintance about it and the first think he said to do : was drink a pint (or was it a quart) of water about half an hour beforehand.  So I need : to be well hydrated to begin with – I’ve begun drinking a lot more water all day, every- : day.  (Any recommendations on how much water one should drink per day?  I live in : Colorado, and it’s very dry here.) : Also, Pat said that he drinks this stuff that triathletes drink.  I tried some.  It : was orange flavor, sticky(?), and tasted slightly sweet.  He said it keeps the tongue : sticky and will help keep one’s mouth from drying out.  Also, he said that it has a lot : of different minerals(?) and metals especially chromium which he claimed prevents the : muscles from lactating (- is that possible? I thought muscles will always lactate…) or : that it prevents lactic acid from building up and keeps muscles from cramping up.   : This stuff comes in a powder, runs about $20 for a can, and should last for a month : and a half or so.  (I imagine how long it lasts depends on how much/how often you : drink it.) : Does anybody know the name of this ‘wonder’ drink?  And where to get it? : Also, Pat said that Gatorade is ’shit’ – it’s all sugar.  Now, I’m not defending : Gatorade, but their ads claim it has all this other important stuff in it.  Is Gatorade : really of no value, is it just not as good as this other stuff, and/or is it just the : ‘in thing’ of serious athletes to say it’s not worth shit? : I’d appreciate e-mail replies.  Thanks : — : — : Steve Camp There’s nothing better than water…save your money! Alex

Yep, lots of water b4 n after will do wonders. U can get all your minerals from a banana (lotsa potassium – your muscles need it!) or two, and maybe 3 slices of bread or a cup of cereal with skim milk 2-3 hours b4 bed. —

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     I got a little bit bored lately with plain gatorade and water – so I made my own anti-bonk solution.    MIx  : 2 parts lemon lime gatordade, 3 parts water, 1 part Hi-C Ecto-cooler, and 1 part mounatin dew.  Chill and drink away!!!   This stuff kicks A$&, and has saved me during 4-5 hour rides in the heat this summer.  I’m not sure if the sugar or the caffeine is the more active ingredient, but they blend together harmoniously!!                                                          Good Luck!!

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The debate on electrolyte drinks will go on for eternity. I guarantee it. But according to many tri-savvy medical doctors, the most important drink for almost every race is simply, water, water, water. Of course, in a race as long as Ironman the need for some type of electrolyte/glucose replacement becomes more of an issue.

You’re right, the debate is endless.  There does seem to be some consensus on the points you make, though.  For simply replacing lost fluids, water is the best; only in endurance events is something other than water necessary.  I would only add that it doesn’t take an Ironman to deplete glycogen stores — from what I understand, sustained exercise of over an hour will begin to do it. On this same thread, a previous post mentioned that Exceed had gone out of business.  Ross Laboratories did stop making it, but Joe Weider’s organization now sells it.  Weider promised not to change it at all, and so far has not.   I’ve tried lots of different drinks, and for me Exceed has proved to be the most effective. –Steve

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There’s nothing better than water…save your money!

Agreed. Water is also versatile (splashing on head or shirt) and doesn’t stain!! Sometimes we do need a sugar kick, though. arthur — Choices don’t scare me. However, a lack of choices does.

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Karen Smyers said in Triathlete that COKE saved her at Ironman, too.

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(Reuben Joseph Myer) writes:

The debate on electrolyte drinks will go on for eternity. I guarantee it. But according to many tri-savvy medical doctors, the most important drink for almost every race is simply, water, water, water. Of course, in a race as long as Ironman the need for some type of electrolyte/glucose replacement becomes more of an issue. Since most IQ races and the Ironman serve Gatorade, it might be wise to at least adapt to this drink for the race or you’ll have to carry your own.

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: (Reuben Joseph Myer) writes: : The debate on electrolyte drinks will go on for eternity. I guarantee it. I read somewhere that Scott Molina said something like "Its a good thing water bottles are not clear, or every one would see we drink generic coke from Safeway." If your race or training is less that two hours drinking carb may help you recover faster, but it is unlikely your performance will be improved. Longer than that stick with what will be served at your next race, or bring your own. I like watermelon flavored koolaid with a tablespoon of salt per gallon, but it is not for everyone. I also train in a hot, humid, hilly place for Ironman distance. — w   0-!Q0 a~  i { f<_.HNn NO CARRIER

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I’m not a tri’er, but a rower.  It seems the drink your friend brought *might* have been an Exceed product.  The description sounds right…pretty serious stuff; it’s made (actually, it WAS made, they went out of business from what I understand) by Twin Labs.  They had an energy drink and a pure carbohydrate drink you could buy in powder form or in the bottle.  I liked the powder stuff…I used it only for ergometer (rowing machine) tests in the afternoon after a morning workout. Seemed like it replaced my carb stores from the earlier workout and gave me more energy for the test in the afternoon.  I think its claim to fame was that it had something like over 20 carbs/serving with NO simple or processed sugars in it.         In any case, from what I understand, for a short to medium timed workout (1 hr. to 2 1/2 hrs.) you can get all the replacement your body needs from water and eating your bannana in the morning.  After a workout, drink GRAPE JUICE.  I read a study in which it kicked the pants off of Gatorade AND water for replacing lost carbohydrate stores.  I suppose other juices might work just as well (Cranberry, pineapple), but it might be a good idea to water it down to help replace more of the water that you’ve lost.  Also, you might not want to drink lemon water because it tends to make the stomach contents fairly acidic–bad heartburn, you know.  My .02$. RJ University of Va

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| | | I started playing soccer again.  I found my mouth completely dry after about 15 minutes | of running.  I talked to an acquaintance about it and the first think he said to do | was drink a pint (or was it a quart) of water about half an hour beforehand.   This was my approach, but I took it to the extreme: drink _as_ _much_ _as_ _you_ _can_ for the time period 6 hours before to 2 hours before. During the last 2 hours don’t drink anything at all; let your body reach equilibrium but with maximal water content. Then, you will be able to run for two hours in 40 degree heat (if you are fit and unless you are too old). Water was never a factor for me. Unfortunately, damage to the knees was. ps: make sure to eat well during that 6-to-2 period, so that you aren’t short electrolytes (but healthy, not junk food). One point is: you don’t need industrial poisons when natural methods will do. — Gruss, Dr Bruce Scott                             The deadliest bullshit is Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik       odorless and transparent

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Man) writes:

I disagree that Gatorade is bogus. It works quite well. Though certainly not for everyone, maybe. Try Endura, Hydra Fuel or new PR Fuel. Electrolyte drinks are important, especially for long hot events.

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        drink lemon water (you can either just throw in thin slices of         lemon and chew ‘em as you drink or squeeze the whole lemon.         it is a matter of taste).  don’t sugar it, but use ice to cool         it.  try not to use sugar except, possibly, during competition,         when you need the energy.  during training, the regular sugar         intake in well-balanced meals should be good enough… —              "Free Advice and Opinions — Refunds Available" – Tiananmen Square: 5 years later, ignoring it becomes official US policy <–   — ( I believe in emailing courtesy copies of follow-up articles ) <—

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I started playing soccer again.  I found my mouth completely dry after about 15 minutes of running.  I talked to an acquaintance about it and the first think he said to do was drink a pint (or was it a quart) of water about half an hour beforehand.  So I need to be well hydrated to begin with – I’ve begun drinking a lot more water all day, every- day.  (Any recommendations on how much water one should drink per day?  I live in Colorado, and it’s very dry here.) Also, Pat said that he drinks this stuff that triathletes drink.  I tried some.  It was orange flavor, sticky(?), and tasted slightly sweet.  He said it keeps the tongue sticky and will help keep one’s mouth from drying out.  Also, he said that it has a lot of different minerals(?) and metals especially chromium which he claimed prevents the muscles from lactating (- is that possible? I thought muscles will always lactate…) or that it prevents lactic acid from building up and keeps muscles from cramping up.   This stuff comes in a powder, runs about $20 for a can, and should last for a month and a half or so.  (I imagine how long it lasts depends on how much/how often you drink it.) Does anybody know the name of this ‘wonder’ drink?  And where to get it? Also, Pat said that Gatorade is ’shit’ – it’s all sugar.  Now, I’m not defending Gatorade, but their ads claim it has all this other important stuff in it.  Is Gatorade really of no value, is it just not as good as this other stuff, and/or is it just the ‘in thing’ of serious athletes to say it’s not worth shit? I’d appreciate e-mail replies.  Thanks — — Steve Camp

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: I started playing soccer again.  I found my mouth completely dry after about 15 minutes : of running.  I talked to an acquaintance about it and the first think he said to do : was drink a pint (or was it a quart) of water about half an hour beforehand.  So I need : to be well hydrated to begin with – I’ve begun drinking a lot more water all day, every- : day.  (Any recommendations on how much water one should drink per day?  I live in : Colorado, and it’s very dry here.) : Also, Pat said that he drinks this stuff that triathletes drink.  I tried some.  It : was orange flavor, sticky(?), and tasted slightly sweet.  He said it keeps the tongue : sticky and will help keep one’s mouth from drying out.  Also, he said that it has a lot : of different minerals(?) and metals especially chromium which he claimed prevents the : muscles from lactating (- is that possible? I thought muscles will always lactate…) or : that it prevents lactic acid from building up and keeps muscles from cramping up.   : This stuff comes in a powder, runs about $20 for a can, and should last for a month : and a half or so.  (I imagine how long it lasts depends on how much/how often you : drink it.) : Does anybody know the name of this ‘wonder’ drink?  And where to get it? : Also, Pat said that Gatorade is ’shit’ – it’s all sugar.  Now, I’m not defending : Gatorade, but their ads claim it has all this other important stuff in it.  Is Gatorade : really of no value, is it just not as good as this other stuff, and/or is it just the : ‘in thing’ of serious athletes to say it’s not worth shit? : I’d appreciate e-mail replies.  Thanks : — : — : Steve Camp There’s nothing better than water…save your money! Alex

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