Question:

Greetings, rec.runners. Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon:  40min aquarunning Tue:  40min with slightly increasing pace Wed:  1.5hrs steady state pace Thu   strength exercises, serious stretching Fri:  20min warmup, 20×80m (sic!), 20min easy Sat:  2.0hrs steady state pace Sun:  rest Feeling a bit strange; my leg seems to be fine, in fact better than ever, but somehow I don

Question:

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Question:

Was it the Hoyts who rode across America a few years back?  Imagine crossing the rockies on that bicycle WITHOUT someone sitting over the front wheel!! Triathlon, bike racing, running, etc. are (for me anyway) fantastic as you "meet" so many heroes, whose stories would otherwise go unnoticed. amazing. Its incredible what the human spirit can achieve.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Triathlon, bike racing, running, etc. are (for me anyway) fantastic as you "meet" so many heroes, whose stories would otherwise go unnoticed. amazing. Its incredible what the human spirit can achieve. Ditto!

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Was it the Hoyts who rode across America a few years back?  Imagine crossing the rockies on that bicycle WITHOUT someone sitting over the front wheel!!

There’s more to this story, IIRC, Dick and Ricky were cycling across the country to raise awareness for individuals with disabilities.  One of the major networks (either ABC or NBC) picked up on the story and planned on video taping parts of his trek and showing it on television.  However, the network didn’t think that he could make it over the rocky mountains, so they decided to do a little filming at the beginning of the trip and wait until the rockies to continue filming.  The network crew thought he would probably abandon somewhere in the extremely hilly/steep rockies.  Well, they were wrong, very wrong, and didn’t realize the determination and stamina Dick possessed.  While filming the Hoyts in some of the most difficult sections of the Rocky mountains- Dick was cycling up a severely steep grade, a grade that would make you want to crawl if you were walking, his legs were turning like pistons of a locomotive.  He then proceeded to overtake and pass several other cyclists in some of the steepest sections.  There wasn’t a dry eye in the entire film crew.  Pretty amazing. on another note– I did a USTS burlington Vermont race in 1989 and the entire run was cross country with many steep trails.  There was one portion of the run that was so steep there were about 25 steps built into the trail out of earth.  When I ran/climbed this area, other triathletes were on their hands and knees crawling up it.  Dick and Ricky successfully completed  this race, and I can’t even imagine how he pushed his son up this section, let alone the entire uneven cross country 10K. Mark Linenberg                                        o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

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Question:

Here it comes. Deja vu all over again. Stephen "why don’t we all take up duathlon and get rid of the swim question" McShane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or is the swim in a 1/2IM disproportionately short?

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Or is the swim in a 1/2IM disproportionately short? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wonder if this is true for almost all triathletes that do a lot of Oly distance. Oly distance is a 1.5k swim (About .9 miles), and a 1/2IM swim is 1.2 miles, so a 1/2 IM swim is only about 320 meters further than an Oly swim. The bike on the other hand is more than doubled,  and the run is almost exactly doubled. Which begs the question, is the swim in an Oly distance disproportionately large? John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

==—–

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Sleeping and eating twinkies. Charles "I guess I can get away with that at my age" Garabedian

O.K. make us feel bad, how old are you? Wendy

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Is that really your idea of  the "off season"?

Actually, now that I think about it, the off season looks a lot like the on-season, except I do a little more running, a lot more cycling and a lot less swimming during the tri season.

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What are your plans for the off season?

I stop running, biking, and swimming when the snow flies and train for XC ski racing in the winter!….I live on a XC ski trail here in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis) and ski 5 times/week…I race almost every weekend and usually do about 3 ski marathons…Great training!…and at 41 this program allows me to heal any running injuries and has me looking forward to the SBR thing in March…..I race Classic and Skate style and love both techniques…In the Fall I keep running and pick up roller skiing to prepare for ski season as well as some "dry land" ski workouts such as pole hiking up downhill ski hills…the change does me good!…..buy some roller skis and take up this sport! Stephen Bullard  

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Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

I do strength training with weights all year.  I’ll probably do at least one marathon.  That means an increase in running.  There’s also a triathlon in Hemet, CA in December that I plan on doing.  I hope to improve my swimming over the winter – maybe a TI workshop.  My cycling will probably be limited to commuting to work a couple of days a week ( 10 miles each way ). How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season?

I’ll still do 10-15 hours of workout weekly during the winter.  The activities just change. Do you take rest days?

Sort of.  Usually a rest day means I just do one light workout.  If I start feeling burned out, I might just veg out for a day or two.  Sometimes I think I’ve had a rest day but I biked to work or played racquetball. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

No.  I might increase training for a particular race but as soon as I do that, the off-season is over. Off-season for me in SoCal just means there are triathlons to do and the rain keeps me from biking sometimes.  But I still keep a regular training schedule. Larry

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Think he means that he is at work for 40+ and 60+ hours.  In another thread, Jason described his traing in the 3-5 hours a week range. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jason "plus, the training will fit my work schedule much better.  We average 40 hrs/week in the winter, 60+ hrs/week from April-July." What is your best time ever in the Olympic Distance?     Pedro "curious with the effects of so much training" Martins

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What are your plans for the off season?

lot of mountain biking.<little cyclocross added. build to a late winter marathon< maybe Myrtle Beach or Las Vegas. couple of trail running ultras. Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

Swimming, yes. I barely can stand it during the tri season, must less off-season. Biking? cut distance back. but time on bike in the woods almost equals what I do in the summer. Running? A lot more in the winter. next season goals?

I would like to do the Double Iron in Va. late next summer if I can stay healty until then.-Randy                                       Randy + Sue IMF 99!

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What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

Off season? What’s that? Seriously, after my 1/2 IM in October, I’ll be recovering for two weeks, then back into full training for my first IM in May 2000. How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season?

Usually I take a month off as a reward for a great season. After that, I resume training, but only at levels to maintain my current level of fitness. Starting in February, I pick up the intensity and duration in anticipation of my first race in April. Do you take rest days?

Always, even during full training mode. Gotta give the bod time to recover. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

Yep! Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST.

Gotta luv the internet David / FEY2K – IMCAL (remove spaces) at att dot net

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Pretty much.  Although I always begin the season with Wildflower, so my off-season prep never varies—I’m always trying to get ready to conquer one very, very difficult 1/2-IM.

Um . . . very, *very* difficult? I was planning to make Wildflower my 1st 1/2IM – is this maybe a bad idea? What’s the hardest leg? TriathRon

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Um . . . very, *very* difficult? I was planning to make Wildflower my 1st 1/2IM – is this maybe a bad idea? What’s the hardest leg? TriathRon

Oh, the replies that come to mind on *that* one….LOL John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Um . . . very, *very* difficult? I was planning to make Wildflower my 1st 1/2IM – is this maybe a bad idea?

No worse than getting into this sport in the first place.  It’s not a bad idea but an ambitious undertaking.  WF was my first IM/2 and it sure feels good to finish it.  I’ll be back to try it again. What’s the hardest leg?

Probably not the swim.   I’m not a swimmer and I enjoyed this one. Once you get out of the water, you spend the rest of the day in rolling hills.  The bike has major hills at the beginning and towards the end with a long flat stretch in between.  You need good climbing skills. The run is mostly on trails and very hilly.  It’s damn tough.  Wears me out just writing about it. The whole thing is really neat, though.  I camped and spent 3 1/2 days there.  It’s a beautiful setting.  It’s too bad that the IM slots got pulled because it was neat to see all the pros getting theirs.  Hopefully the purse will be big enough to bring them back but as I remember, it didn’t pay much. Go ahead, you’ll be glad you did. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TriathRon

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What’s the hardest leg? Probably not the swim.   I’m not a swimmer and I enjoyed this one. Larry TriathRon

I wonder if this is true for almost all triathletes that do a lot of Oly distance. Oly distance is a 1.5k swim (About .9 miles), and a 1/2IM swim is 1.2 miles, so a 1/2 IM swim is only about 320 meters further than an Oly swim. The bike on the other hand is more than doubled,  and the run is almost exactly doubled. Which begs the question, is the swim in an Oly distance disproportionately large? John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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I missed the original post, someone tell me he’s talking about his work week 40-60 and not his training! Simon Lessing gets by on 20-25 hrs training. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jason "plus, the training will fit my work schedule much better.  We average 40 hrs/week in the winter, 60+ hrs/week from April-July." What is your best time ever in the Olympic Distance?    Pedro "curious with the effects of so much training" Martins

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2:48 marathon, sub-16 5K

Am I the only one who’s awestruck by this?  Wow!

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Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

Eating like a pig, working on the house, letting the belt out a notch (oops, that was last winter). This winter, I plan to swim with the masters, snowshoe (if and when we have snow), ski, and run when in the appropriate places and conditions. I will probably not mountain bike (don’t want a repeat of last year’s frostbite), but the occasional road ride is on the list. I will do it all according to no plan at all, but try to do enough to maintain this year’s base. How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season?

I can’t cut it down *that* much, or I wouldn’t be working out at all. Do you take rest days?

Heh, heh. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

They do for me. Next year, I plan to do a half-IM in June (Blackwater), so I’ll be spending relatively more time on the bike than I’ve spent this year. That will start as soon as the Marine Corp Marathon is over. A century ride in the Fall sounds about right. I’ll run enough to keep my base, and work more on cycling to build that back up. A couple of rides a week ought to do it. The point for me is to keep fit without the grind. The mind has to have a break, too. That’s why I probably won’t lift weights, unless my girlfriend and I do it toghether (as well we might). It has to be diverting and non-serious, or I start next year’s heavy training already mentally behind. Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

Oh, you want to get fast. Rick "Sorry to have wasted your time" Denney

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Sleeping and eating twinkies. Charles "I guess I can get away with that at my age" Garabedian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running? How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season? Do you take rest days? Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season? Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

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For me… who is at the opposite end of the season to you NH guys… the "off" season is simply a chance to train for an IM race somewhere on the other side of the world… like Canada… you can train your butt off… enjoy miserable weather… and not even have to worry about any of those pesky race things interrupting you… oh boy, what fun… still, the trip makes up for it all. — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running? How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season? Do you take rest days? Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season? Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

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Jason "plus, the training will fit my work schedule much better.  We average 40 hrs/week in the winter, 60+ hrs/week from April-July."

What is your best time ever in the Olympic Distance?     Pedro "curious with the effects of so much training" Martins

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My swim-team meets 4 times a week.  I’m going to try and make a bigger effort to make all the workouts. As for running, I’m lucky enough to be able to run 5 miles at lunch every day. Cycling is the tough one for me.  I am hoping to at least try to maintain something close to what I’ve gained by spinning an hour or two, three times a week.

Is that really your idea of  the "off season"? Mine looks like: 2 swims training with my Tri club. 1 run every….. let’s say 2 weeks. 1 bike promenade on sunday morning when I the weather is good and I can get out of my bed. This is from october to the end of december. Serious training restart in January. Nicolas.

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I am a major lurker, who wakes up every morning and first thing reads rec.sport.triathlon, and this is for me one of the most valuable threads I have read. Keep um comming! Thanks, Ken Mc

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I am a major lurker, who wakes up every morning and first thing reads rec.sport.triathlon, and this is for me one of the most valuable threads I have read. Keep um comming! Thanks, Ken Mc

I will take credit for this somewhat selfish post. I for one am planning on saving this one. Wendy "love the variety of philosophies!" in St. Pete Beach

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Dear All, What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races? Slacking up on swimming, biking or running? How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to during season? Do you take rest days? Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season? Thanks for your input. Even though I’ve asked some of you this off line I wanted to get a broader feel since I think there is a wealth of experience hanging out on the RST. Wendy "can I move out of the MOP?" in St. Pete Beach

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M&Ms and a new tattoo. David "We’ll deal with  your mental aberrations later."  Barnabas Collins, "Dark Shadows" http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8374

Response:

Hi Wendy, Here’s my input on your questions. Hope it’s helpful. What are your plans for the off season? Weights? Running road races?

I guess by "off-season" you mean tri season. Being from a primarily running background, I tend to race year-round (even here in Ohio). I hate the heat and don’t take racing seriously until September as the tri season winds down. Then it’s time for the fall/winter schedule of road races. Virtually all of my PRs have come in the fall/winter (5m, 10K, 10m, 1/2M, and M). The exception that proves the rule is a 5K PR in August (??). For tri/du-specific training, I hit the weights (3 days a week, 10 different areas, about 90 minutes per session), and this year will spend more time on biking hills and intervals (on a CompuTrainer) to increase my strength base. During tri season, weights drop to once a week for maintenance and any other strength training is eliminated and replaced with racing. Slacking up on swimming, biking or running?

My running will pick up. Biking will drop off, but intensity will increase. Swimming will be 3 days/week. Two days being drills, one endurance. How many hours a week do you workout during the off season as opposed to

during season? About the same, maybe a bit more (14-18 hours/week "on" season, 16-22 hours/week "off" season). But that includes the weight training. That might be different from other opinions you’ve gotten, but during racing season, the days before and after a race are essentially nothing as far as training goes, thus reducing the hours. Two days before a race will just be easy stuff, so a race wipes out about 4 days every two weeks. Do you take rest days?

Seems to work out to be 3 completely "off" days every two weeks. There may be some things like an easy/recovery day where necessary. Do your race plans for next season dictate what you will do in the off season?

This year it will. You may not recall, but I had a 1:11 swim at GCT and ended up cramping badly in the last four miles of the run and finished with a 6:23. For tri’s, I tried to listen to what works for everyone else, instead of what has always worked for me in running. I’ve always been a good runner (2:48 marathon, sub-16 5K), but trained for tri’s differently. This year, I’m going to apply everything that has always worked for me in running (more intense middle-distance, with one long day/week, take days off instead of doing "garbage" days just to say I’ve trained), and see what happens. This year’s longer stuff looks like: Powerman Alabama Di Gulf Coast 1/2IM Tri Springfield Ironhorse Du {either} Muncie 1/2IM / Tupper Lake 1/2IM / Blackwater Eagleman 1/2IM volunteer at IMUSA 2000 Interspersed in there will be a couple of 30Ks and 1/2marathons. I can’t advise that what works for me will work for you, but the more information you have from everyone, the better decision you can make for yourself. Above all, do what feels right to YOU. I’ve learned that you just can’t plug yourself into someone else’s training equation. Good Luck! Rob Robertson

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Question:

Anyone have a tape of the edition of Triathlon Magazine that featured the Gulf Coast Triathlon ? i heard a rumor that a friend of mine is shown in the broadcast and i would really love to see it. i’ll happily pay shipping and additional costs on a tape of the show if anyone out there has it. thanks dan

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I’ll second that motion. If anyone has one I’d like a copy also.

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me three! i’ll shell out some bucks for a copy. someone stands to make some green here!

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I will take one as well. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have a tape of the edition of Triathlon Magazine that featured the Gulf Coast Triathlon ? i heard a rumor that a friend of mine is shown in the broadcast and i would really love to see it. i’ll happily pay shipping and additional costs on a tape of the show if anyone out there has it. thanks dan

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I’ll third the motion (if there’s such a thing). Johanna "forever young" Young

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Question:

    Add to his illustrious road racing career:         – IMH winner     – RAAM winner     – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike)

Yes, but I was only mentioning his accomplishments before turning to triathlon. The other items you mention came later. But I stand by my statement that his story may not be that unusual among the early Ironmen. He was The Cyclist. But there was also The Swimmer and The Runner. I just don’t know as much about them. All of them were accomplished athletes before attempting the Ironman. Many getting into triathlon today are coming out of a sedentary lifestyle. They run, swim, or ride bikes to lose weight and get fit, and get bitten by the bug. These people *can* do an Ironman out of the box. But their objective is different than Howie’s. Howie wanted to win, and added several years of full-time training to his prodigious talent to do so. A newbie has not the talent, and will therefore not be trying to win. But they’ll still have to devote extensive training to finish. I tend to agree with Joe that it is probably too much for mortals. I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. I have several races I have to do first to build the confidence I need to keep me motivated through that much training. That program includes a mile-long open-water swim in a race, done comfortably, a marathon, and a half-Ironman. As they say in amateur astronomy, if you want to grind and polish a 12-inch telescope mirror, make a 6-inch mirror first, then a 12-incher. What you learn with the smaller mirror saves more time in the second mirror than it takes to make the smaller mirror in the first place. Many start with the 12-inch mirror, and lose heart when the progress seems too slow and the objective too distant, or end up with a mirror that they are not proud of. Rick "not John Howard" Denney

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    – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike)

Is this for real?  The guy must be a nut.  Imagine if he hit a minor imperfection in the road at that speed.  Good night.  Game over.  Does this really count as a "human powered" record?  I think I might be able to break the 10K world record if you put me on a track that had one lane which was a moving sidewalk.  Then again, 26 minutes is pretty fast, so that sidewalk would really need to be moving.

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    – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike) Is this for real?  The guy must be a nut.  Imagine if he hit a minor imperfection in the road at that speed.  Good night.  Game over.  Does this really count as a "human powered" record?  I think I might be able to break the 10K world record if you put me on a track that had one lane which was a moving sidewalk.  Then again, 26 minutes is pretty fast, so that sidewalk would really need to be moving.

Yes, it’s for real. Howard no longer holds the record, by the way, so there’s at least one other nut, and that other guy (whose name escapes me at the moment) did crash on one occasion, as I recall. Howie’s bike was built more like a motorcycle than a bike, and he had to be towed to a fairly high speed before he could turn the pedals on the gear he was using. He did his record run at the same place all land-speed records are done: Bonneville. The Salt Flats are the smoothest surface on the planet. No, it’s not really human powered. That’s a different record. Rick "I hit the brakes at 45" Denney

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No guts, no glory. OTH, after he won the RAAM he declared that it was not worth the torture and physical damage.  And to my knowledge, he never rode it again Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike) Is this for real?  The guy must be a nut.  Imagine if he hit a minor imperfection in the road at that speed.

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In article Many getting into triathlon today are coming out of a sedentary lifestyle. They run, swim, or ride bikes to lose weight and get fit, and get bitten by the bug. These people *can* do an Ironman out of the box. But their objective is different than Howie’s. Howie wanted to win, and added several years of full-time training to his prodigious talent to do so. A newbie has not the talent, and will therefore not be trying to win.

Just a minor point of semantics:  I think you misuse the word "talent" in the last sentence above, Rick.  A newbie may very well have the "talent" (Peter Reid was once a newbie), but he or she does not have the training, preparation, and experience required for an expectation of winning an IM. "Talent" is innate ability, as opposed to the other factors that I’ve mentioned, which can be developed over time.  With talent, either ya got it or ya ain’t! But they’ll still have to devote extensive training to finish. I tend to agree with Joe that it is probably too much for mortals.

Too much for average mortals to take on as *their first tri*.  But completing an IM after an appropriate buildup is very doable for your average determined mortal. I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training.

Rick, you can.  Honest. As they say in amateur astronomy, if you want to grind and polish a 12-inch telescope mirror, make a 6-inch mirror first, then a 12-incher. What you learn with the smaller mirror saves more time in the second mirror than it takes to make the smaller mirror in the first place. Many start with the 12-inch mirror, and lose heart when the progress seems too slow and the objective too distant, or end up with a mirror that they are not proud of.

Beautiful analogy.  Perfect. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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 A newbie has not the talent, and will therefore not be trying to win. Just a minor point of semantics:  I think you misuse the word "talent" in the last sentence above, Rick.  A newbie may very well have the "talent" (Peter Reid was once a newbie), but he or she does not have the training, preparation, and experience required for an expectation of winning an IM. "Talent" is innate ability, as opposed to the other factors that I’ve mentioned, which can be developed over time.  With talent, either ya got it or ya ain’t!

I was talking about a newbie who had lived a sedentary life and undertaken endurance sports as an extension of weight-loss exercise. I suppose that group can include those with real talent. My observation, though, tells me that most people with that kind of talent are compelled to stay a bit more fit in the first place. Maybe I’m wrong–but that’s what I was getting at. But they’ll still have to devote extensive training to finish. I tend to agree with Joe that it is probably too much for mortals. Too much for average mortals to take on as *their first tri*.  But completing an IM after an appropriate buildup is very doable for your average determined mortal.

As I read the subject, it says "IM as first tri". Did I miss something? I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. Rick, you can.  Honest.

Rick "I’ll take your word for it" Denney

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I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. Rick, you can.  Honest. Rick "I’ll take your word for it" Denney

Ah! Yee have the faith, now all you need is an application and you will be a *believahhh* Pass the viper, Rev’ – 17 months, 6 Days, 21 Hours until  IMC/2000! Train Safe, Race: Qualify! Joe "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can’t, you’re right." – Henry Ford

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I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. Rick, you can.  Honest. Rick "I’ll take your word for it" Denney Ah! Yee have the faith, now all you need is an application and you will be a *believahhh*

I’ll be a believer when 1. I step out of Lake Audubon on September 12th relaxed and looking forward to riding the bike. Stepping out of a boat does not count. 2. I complete the Marine Corps Marathon. I don’t require comfort or any particular time. I do require successful consumption of food, and no significant walking (which I define as being compelled to walk rather than choosing to walk). 3. I get the sense that work and life will allow the training schedule. This is not one of the lighter matters. I spend 25 weeks a year on the road right now, and it looks like I may be expanding that a bit until about the middle of 2000. After that, I think it will slack off considerably (my teaching gig will be concluded). Pass the viper, Rev’ – 17 months, 6 Days, 21 Hours until  IMC/2000!

Faith is belief in things not seen. By that definition, I’m currently one of those ye of little faith types. Rick "Time will tell whether the bug is strong enough" Denney

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: One of whose history I have personal knowledge is John Howard. He won, : I believe, the third or fourth Hawaiian Ironman (1980 or 81), : He trained vigorously for the Ironman event, and made it is sole focus : for the years that he did it. : I’m sure his story is not unusual. – Howard’s "story" taken only in the context of triathlon might not

     seem unusual, but viewing the bigger picture in my opinion, places      him in a class by himself.      Add to his illustrious road racing career:          - IMH winner      - RAAM winner      - Human powered land speed world record holder.        (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike)     The guy is quite simply a phenom and a pioneer.  Under-recognized for     all the things he has accomplished.    Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

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In the good old days of Triathlon a lot of people did Im as their first , my first Hawaii in 83 there was probably 50 odd who had never done a tri before. I doubt that it happens too much now though. I agree with tricia when she says the hardest part is the training , if you’ve done the training the race is a picnic. Sounds silly but is true. Ross – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mmmm, I doubt it.  I suspect the biggest challenge in doing IM for your first tri is ramping up the miles in training and sticking to it for the months leading up to the race.  The race itself is the icing on the cake. Honest. — Tri-Baby Icing on the cake?  Some of us mortals have trouble digesting an 800 pound cake  ;) Steve

Believe it or not, Steve, I say that in all seriousness.  The hardest part of Ironman is the training.  It lasts a *lot* longer than the maximum 17 hours that the race itself could potentially take. I mean it—if you have the guts and determination to slog through 6 to 12 months of preparation for this distance, you are practically guaranteed a finish, barring unfortunate accidents or unforeseen physical/weather complications. If TriBaby can do it, ANYBODY with the will to prepare can complete an Ironman.  That’s what’s so tantalizing about the distance—it seems so daunting, yet in reality is quite doable for anyone with the determination and persistence to go for it.   Remember that, because it is true.  Let it give you confidence as you churn out the miles on the bike, on the run, and in the pool.  TriBobo did it—so can you! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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Personally, I would hate to dedicate the time, effort and sacrifice to attack something I may hate. I think it best to try a shorter distance before making the investment. Joe Foster "The idea is to create your own future, and not have it shaped by circumstance." – Peter Thomas

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start. Mmmm, I doubt it.  I suspect the biggest challenge in doing IM for your first tri is ramping up the miles in training and sticking to it for the months leading up to the race.  The race itself is the icing on the cake. Honest. — Tri-Baby

Icing on the cake?  Some of us mortals have trouble digesting an 800 pound cake  ;) Steve

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

Mmmm, I doubt it.  I suspect the biggest challenge in doing IM for your first tri is ramping up the miles in training and sticking to it for the months leading up to the race.  The race itself is the icing on the cake. Honest. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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Richard, I had the same thought. — "Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not.  When you race him, he will win." -Tom Fleming

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| Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their | first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and | how did your race turn out? Forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, but weren’t the first triathlons ironmans

Actually, no.  The first triathlons were put on by bored lifeguards in southern California, or so say the legends.  They were not Ironman length, and I don’t believe they technically followed today’s standard swim-bike-run format, but they were triathlons. (ironmen?)? If so the forefathers of the sport did an IM as their first triathlon.

I think you’re right about at least those folks who did the first IMs. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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I think you’re right about at least those folks who did the first IMs.

Four years ago I bought a bike from a guy who, at the age of 37, saw the Hawaiian Ironman on TV and resolved to do it. He trained for two years with no advice or guidance, not knowing any shorter races existed.  His goal was simply to finish, and he did.  Then he put the bike up for sale and quit.  I paid less than $50 for the bike.  I should have bought the hard trasnport case as well, but at the time didn’t realize what a good deal it was at $100 obo.

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| Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their | first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and | how did your race turn out? Forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, but weren’t the first triathlons ironmans (ironmen?)? If so the forefathers of the sport did an IM as their first triathlon. So I guess you could ask Dave Scott (for instance) about his background and training.                                    rich

A lot of them were. But they were not newbies to endurance sports. One of whose history I have personal knowledge is John Howard. He won, I believe, the third or fourth Hawaiian Ironman (1980 or 81), and placed highly in all the early races in which he participated. He was coming off a very successful cycling career, where he was a gold-medalist in the Pan American Games in 1972, and a national road-race champion something like five times in the mid and early 70s. Going hard for 10 or 12 hours at a whack was nothing new to him. Also, he was an excellent time-trialist, and was used to solo strategy and pacing. And he could push the most god-awful gears. He trained vigorously for the Ironman event, and made it is sole focus for the years that he did it. I’m sure his story is not unusual. The early Ironman races, as I recall, mostly consisted of superior athletes in the various sports, who challenged each other to a combined event. I don’t suspect there were that many mortals in that company, and mortals might do well to follow a more conservative strategy than the pioneers. Also, if you look at the times posted by the pioneers, you will see that the top folks in the sport have learned a thing or two since those days. Rick "Sub-Mortal" Denney

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| Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their | first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and | how did your race turn out? Forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, but weren’t the first triathlons ironmans (ironmen?)? If so the forefathers of the sport did an IM as their first triathlon. So I guess you could ask Dave Scott (for instance) about his background and training.                                         rich

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out?

Steve Bean, where are you to answer this. Steve did GFT as his first triathlon ever and his story is amazing. Mike Plumb

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Are you sure the swim would be the first challenge? I’d say the first challenge would be to quietly sit and think about what an Ironman really entails, then comes all the training. I find that sometimes getting out from under the duvet for another early swim, a 150km bike on a Sunday or after long day at work running intervals on your own on a dirt road in he rain is also a little "challenging" Phil Squire

Yeah, I was talking about the first *race day* challenge. The race is the easy part, compared to the training. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

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Train for sprint, an international and then a half and then you will really appreciate what it is all about. Wendy "my worst fear is that I might decide to do an IM" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you sure the swim would be the first challenge? I’d say the first challenge would be to quietly sit and think about what an Ironman really entails, then comes all the training. I find that sometimes getting out from under the duvet for another early swim, a 150km bike on a Sunday or after long day at work running intervals on your own on a dirt road in he rain is also a little "challenging" Phil Squire IM http://w1.116.telia.com/~u11602093/home.html e t… Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start. No, that would only be your FIRST challenge.  There would be many more to follow. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

No, that would only be your FIRST challenge.  There would be many more to follow. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Are you sure the swim would be the first challenge? I’d say the first challenge would be to quietly sit and think about what an Ironman really entails, then comes all the training. I find that sometimes getting out from under the duvet for another early swim, a 150km bike on a Sunday or after long day at work running intervals on your own on a dirt road in he rain is also a little "challenging" Phil Squire IM http://w1.116.telia.com/~u11602093/home.html

t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start. No, that would only be your FIRST challenge.  There would be many more to follow. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Question:

Hi, I’m looking for a pink running short. It seems very hard to find. I would prefer a satin short, but everything else would be ok. I’ve been in all the sport shops around here and have been surching the internet to find a shop which would sell it, but with no success. A pink short looks so common, but … Maybe pink isn’t "in" anymore. Does someone have the address of a shop (on internet would be easier) that sells them ? Thanks in advance.   Floris.

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They have a hot pink short. Their mailing address is: Florida Running and Triathlon, 8640 Tansy Dr., Orlando, FL 32819 USA and the phone number is 407-352-9131. Good luck and good running! You won’t be missed in these shorts! Chuck

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Question:

Also, just to make your efforts a smoother ride; if you "inventing" triathlon equipment, it is always wise to submit proposals or schematics to the USA Triathlon Rules and Safety Committee Chaired by Larry Chapman group. They will make the early determination if a potential piece of equipment is legal (according to USAT rules) or not. Steve Locke USA Triathlon

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Anyone out there a U.S. Patent Attorney?  I have a new tri-gadget that needs a patent ASAP and I’d like to have an attorney who might understand why this gadget is such a good idea.  If you are one or know one please reply SOON! Thanks, -Scott

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Yes indeed there are triathletes such as myself who moonlight as patent attorneys (or perhaps the other way around of late).  Drop me a line. Marty — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there a U.S. Patent Attorney?  I have a new tri-gadget that needs a patent ASAP and I’d like to have an attorney who might understand why this gadget is such a good idea.  If you are one or know one please reply SOON! Thanks, -Scott

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Question:

You know I never really new how nice runners were until just recently when I ran the Chicago Marathon.  I have been running the last 10 years and I just completed Chicago and Marine Corps Marathons.  While I was running Chicago with my brother, my older sister was at the 17 mile mark with my Dad to cheer us on. (It was my brother’s 1st).   Anyway, my sister came out to run with us on the road for about 1/4 of a mile and while she was doing so, her wallet which had her checkbook and $40.00 cash inside fell out on the road.  She didn’t notice it until she went back to her car.  Anyway, after the run we met at our parents home and she told us the story.  We had told her that it would be returned because it was probably be a runner who picked it up.  I knew runners were good people but I really didn’t expect to see her cash returned, ecspecially after dropping it in Chicago.  About 7 days go by and she gets a phone call from a runner who had picked it up, carried it to the finish line, and then tracked her down by the address on the checkbook to return everything. I am a believer know and thanks.. RSRC/Dave

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To add my $.02 worth, this page has got a nicer group of people because: 1.  For the most part, the majority of distance runners don’t have an ego except when they’re out in the heat of battle.  And even then, I’ve seen them urge on compatriots to do their best, keep it up, etc.–a unique attitude in today’s sporting world.   While the sport of running causes a lot of natural chemical changes in a runner, most runners typically come with a more open mind to things than most others do.  There have been numerous studies on this in athletic journals, studies on runners, etc.  Dr. Sheehan quoted studies on physical makeup that pointed towards these tendencies in his books.   And most of us probably experience this at work–we’re more relaxed and mellow than our non-endurance counterparts. 2.  The rec.weights pages is probably the most brutal exercise group out there compared to this page, for several reasons.  In my opinion, too many people get into lifting to fill some perceived personal void–height, money, being "too skinny", etc.!   Take that group and give it an open forum–whew!  And thats not to say all lifters  bring that attitude.  But there seem to be a large number that do.  Steroids and naturally increased levels of male hormone via weight lifting also lead to that tendency.  I never used any of those drugs, but I do know I became much more agressive when I used to lift seriously because of the body increasing the output of male hormone. Even the triathlete page seems to be have a few more flamers out there than expected, but what the heck–8 hours of swimming, biking, and running would make me grumpy, too!  Probably worse since I don’t swim very well!   Parker

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Of course we are nicer.  It is all that good brain chemical stuff floating around up there…. Hey, why don’t you post your finished paper?  I’d like to read it.  Or email it to me.

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I would be interested to hear any comments as to WHY this is the case.  Is it that runners are nicer/more friendly people, or is there some other reason for it?

Well, in the case of misc.fitness.weights, I would say STEROIDS may have something to do with it!! Trish

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Hey,    I’d like to thank everyone that answered my question on why you run.  I had an overwhelming response.  Where else bu tin a runner’s forum can you find people that nice?  It all helped greatly.                                                  Joe C.

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Hey,   I’d like to thank everyone that answered my question on why you run.  I had an overwhelming response.  Where else bu tin a runner’s forum can you find people that nice?  It all helped greatly.

I have noticed that the people in this news group are much nicer and more civil than many other sports news groups.  I won’t name them because I don’t want to start a flame war; but, there are a couple of popular exercise/sports related groups that are absolutely brutal. I would be interested to hear any comments as to WHY this is the case.  Is it that runners are nicer/more friendly people, or is there some other reason for it? Actually, I think the other (brutal) news groups are that way mainly due to a small minority of particularly unfriendly/predjuced/hate filled people. This is one of my pet peeves so I could elaborate but I won’t … just curious what other people think. Doug Gilliam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                                                 Joe C.

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I have noticed that the people in this news group are much nicer and more civil than many other sports news groups.  I won’t name them because I don’t want to start a flame war; but, there are a couple of popular exercise/sports related groups that are absolutely brutal. I would be interested to hear any comments as to WHY this is the case.  Is it that runners are nicer/more friendly people, or is there some other reason for it?

Here’s my take on some of the groups I subscribe to. If anyone cares what I think… rec.scuba: lots of questions on destinations, some equipment and techniques, and ads often result in minor flaming. Sometimes humorous. rec.running: lots of questions on training, upcoming races, and some equipment, some unsolicited ads, few flame wars. Most people have reasonable knowledge of training methods. rec.bicycles.racing: few questions on training, some equipment, and lots of discussion about pro cycling races, some unsolicited ads, some flame wars. Most people have good knowledge of training methods. misc.fitness.weights: lots of questions on training schedules and techniques, lots on nutrition, supplements, and steroids. Every day there are unsolicited ads for products of questionable value, which are usually met with merciless flaming, and there are some heated flame wars. But, it’s a group that has intentially humerous posts on a regular basis. Some people are clueless about training methods, but some are extremely knowledgeable, and often site scientific references. YMMV. -Warren

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Question:

Actually, it seems to be dying.  However, wouldn’t missing the bike cutoff by a tiny amount of time just *suck*, especially when you had to fight wind and mechanical glitches?  There’s no way I can judge whether it was fair or not (not having been there), but IMH seems to be a major race, the culmin- ation of the season for the best competitors.  Wouldn’t a lot of people gripe if what they’d been striving for that hard eluded them that narrowly?  It seemed pretty normal for Ruth to talk about her experience, and she may well be justified in saying it’s unfair (again, I have no way of knowing what happened in Kona).  Oh well, to bastardize _Gone_With_the_Wind_, next year is another year.                                                         Wendy E Is this the place to be airing personal sour grapes?  Ruth, give it a break ….. it was just bad luck and that is part of the lesson to be learned in athletic competition …. also, we should learn not to shift blame and not to make excuses.   "Always move forward"   this is the IM lesson to live by.  Please move forward w/ all of our best wishes.

– "We had the experience, but missed the meaning."                                                    T.S. Eliot "Heh heh heh heh ….  That was cool. "                                                   Beavis & Butthead

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Still shifting the blame??  Move on! Oh, always move forward!               DDD

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Your little philosophic advice about the direction in which we should all move belongs in greeting card, at best.  Your best wishes I would do better without. Ruth Kazez

Some time ago I made a few comments about Ms. Kazez and took some grief for it. I decided to be quiet on her nature, her attitude about the sport, and her sportsmanship. Obviously, it was the right decision. She has done more to make my points for me than anything I possibly could have said. Thank you Ruth for showing everyone I was right. I appreciate that. Matthew

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 She’s upset that some were allowed to continue and she wasn’t.  

False.  There was one problem: ambiguous cut-off times printed in the instructions.  Those instructions will be changed.  The ambiguity is therefore acknowledged.  I received mechanical assistance.  The volunteers were superb. I dealt with the wind.  I arrived at 5:28 in spite of riding on a flat.  One problem only.  Wrong information in booklet.  Is that clear now? Ruth Kazez

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Is this the place to be airing personal sour grapes?  Ruth, give it a break ….. it was just bad luck and that is part of the lesson to be learned in athletic competition …. also, we should learn not to shift blame and not to make excuses.   "Always move forward"   this is the IM lesson to live by.  Please move forward w/ all of our best wishes.

I have access to three different news servers.  All three purged this thread some time ago, so I wonder at Triwake’s digging up this quite dead horse to kick around.  Ambiguous rules about cut-off time are not called "just bad luck." Next year, the rules will be written differently.  If you intend to participate in the Ironman, you should be able to read the instructions clearly.  That is what I have been told.   Your little philosophic advice about the direction in which we should all move belongs in greeting card, at best.  Your best wishes I would do better without. Ruth Kazez

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The bottom line about Ruth’s problem is:           1.  She had a mechanical problem and either wasn’t prepared to fix it or expected someone else to fix it.  In my opinion – Wrong Answer.  You either correct it or get out.         2.  The weather conditions were bad and that slowed her down.   Tough – In 1983  we had worse wind and several of us walked pushing our bikes (not me – my Cateye registered 3 mph as a walker passed me).   That’s the luck of the draw and what makes the Ironman the Ironman.   Learn to accept the weather cuz you sure aren’t going to change it!!         3.  She’s upset that some were allowed to continue and she wasn’t.  Ruth:  Check the number of people accepted into the race from Kona and the number rejected.  Since 1982, most if not all applying from the Big Island (Kona in particular) have been accepted.  Why not give them special consideration, it creates good will among the volunteers and it’s a truely business decision (radical thought – the Ironman is a business and they make decisions based upon improving the business). Not to belittle Ruth, she made it to "The Show" and I didn’t.  Just accept the results and go on from there. Rob Alford

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Is this the place to be airing personal sour grapes?  Ruth, give it a break ….. it was just bad luck and that is part of the lesson to be learned in athletic competition …. also, we should learn not to shift blame and not to make excuses.   "Always move forward"   this is the IM lesson to live by.  Please move forward w/ all of our best wishes.

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:According to the results in the Triathlete web page, Darryl Haley was :not the only one to be allowed to continue the race despite finishing :the bike over 10:30 after the race start.  I counted 12 people, one f whom finished over 2 minutes after Haley.  I could possibly see :reasons why they might want to stretch the rules for some of them (PR), :as 3 were from Kailua-Kona, one was Haley, and one was Stoney Mayock bad PR to DQ Sharon Ackles’ competition in the Tri-Fed board election). :But I can’t imagine that all 12 were hand-picked and allowed to continue :while preventing others, like Ruth, from continuing.  I would be :curious to know the complete story… : :Maybe at those rare moments when she had a tailwind, Ruth approached :the speed of light and time slowed down for her.  So when she finished :the bike, her watch said 5:28:30, but it was really 5:40.  :-} : :Swim+Bike Place  Name/Gender/Age          Swim     T1+Bike  Run      Total :10:30:41 1308  Conway, Terrence N   M 56  2:12:53  8:17:48  5:50:10  16:20:51 :10:31:08 1321  Schluckebier, John F M 44  1:42:25  8:48:43  6:22:22  16:53:30 :10:32:09 1286  Decker, Dane A       M 49  1:32:50  8:59:19  5:14:43  15:46:52 :10:32:57 1316  Yee, Sze Mun         M 58  1:33:31  8:59:26  6:04:24  16:37:21 :10:33:01 1255  Goode, James R       M 55  1:46:16  8:46:45  4:52:42  15:25:43 :10:33:21 1306  Youn, Han Seob       M 35  1:30:41  9:02:40  5:46:20  16:19:41 :10:35:22 1292  Shirk, Ken "Cowman"  M 51  1:43:12  8:52:10  5:22:42  15:58:04 :10:35:47 1317  Koontz, Kathryn S    F 50  2:02:29  8:33:18  6:04:04  16:39:51 :10:36:01 1320  Mayock II, Stoney    M 65  1:43:58  8:52:03  6:17:16  16:53:17 :10:36:54 1318  Haley, Darryl        M 34  2:14:06  8:22:48  6:07:21  16:44:15 :10:37:32 1319  Rediger, Taunya R    F 33  1:35:42  9:01:50  6:10:20  16:47:52 :10:39:14 1298  Takamura, Takako     F 58  1:36:57  9:03:17  5:23:38  16:03:52 : :                                   — John : : I did the same calculation with the results, and I have only one explanation: The bike time is taken at the beginning of the run, that is, when the atlete leaves the transition area. On the other hand, it seems that the cut-off time is taken at the entrance of the transition area. This would explain the above list, but it would not really be straight, would it? :– :John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland :WWW:   http://rs733.gsfc.nasa.gov/~jntjw/ —                             Ulrich Porsch             Wer spricht vom Siegen, "Ubersteh’n ist alles  

Response:

I was a volunteer at the bike/run transition (catching people and their bikes) The JTL timing for Haley must be wrong, because he did come in about 10 minutes before the 10:30:00 cut-off.  (He also seemed to spend about 10 minutes under the showers, presumably trying to regroup.)  I also happened to be the person who caught Ruth and her bike (though I didn’t know who she was at the time). I was tremendously disappointed for her, but I thought the race director was as compassionate as she could be while still holding to the 10:30:00 cut-off rule. Craig (Tri-brat) McMurray (Hopefully someday I’ll race Hawaiian IM instead of just volunteering.)

Response:

 the race director was as compassionate

That wasn’t the race director.  Yes, the volunteer there was great.  As I sat and moped a couple volunteers came over to pat my head, but the race director, Ackles, I didn’t see until the next day. "Compassionate" doesn’t describe her. Ruth Kazez

Response:

According to the results in the Triathlete web page, Darryl Haley was not the only one to be allowed to continue the race despite finishing the bike over 10:30 after the race start.  I counted 12 people,

[snip] Swim+Bike Place  Name/Gender/Age          Swim     Bike     Run      Total 10:30:41 1308  Conway, Terrence N   M 56  2:12:53  8:17:48  5:50:10  16:20:51 10:31:08 1321  Schluckebier, John F M 44  1:42:25  8:48:43  6:22:22  16:53:30

[snip] Doesn’t the bike time include T1 AND T2?  That’s how they do it at IMC.  Isn’t it possible that some people might take a *long* time in T2?  I know of at least one person at IMC who took 45 minutes for T2 – they got a massage before starting the run.  As I recall the rules at IMC, you must have enteredthe transition area by the cutoff time – there is no cutoff time for starting the run. Isn’t IM Hawaii the same? Could this be yet another tempest in a teapot? —                           without glory." – Pierre Corneille

Response:

Just goes to show how my view of the world is poorly adjusted during an Ironman race. Either way I hope you get a chance to go back to Kona and reach your goals. Eric Gould – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope.  I was about 1/2 hour ahead of the wheelchair.  I was right behind Darrell, just seconds away. Ruth Kazez

Response:

I just looked at the JTL timing page and it listed his swim as 2:14:06 and bike as 8:22:48 = 10:36:54.   This would have put him off the bike at 5:36:54.  Even with the mystical 3 minute subtraction for the early start I believe he didn’t make the 5:30PM cut off.  Guess they can bend the rules for anybody they want to.

I think someone posted this already.  Bear with me if this is so.   I believe the bike split includes both transitions.  Therefore, it is quite likely that he was in the transition area "well" before the cutoff time.  That is, he could have arrived 10 minutes early, had a slow transition, and then exited onto the run after the bike course closed, giving the appearance that he got a break. I know this is the timing style in IM Canada. -Rolf — Rolf "Ironman" Arands, Ph.D.     |                                  |

Response:

Regarding Daryl Haley’s 10:36:54 swim + bike split… I don’t really know how they measure the splits, but could this be the time at which he came *out* of T2?  He would have finished the bike on time, then had a nice rest before starting the marathon.

Very good point.  One of my IMC transitions was ~4min and I thought I was moving pretty fast.  I could see if he just made the bike cutoff in those winds, he would be moving pretty slow.  Also, I bet he wasn’t looking forward to going out and "running" a marathon. John (Next year, if I don’t race, I’m getting a press pass)K.

Response:

[snip] guy, and I’m comfortable with favoritism, especially when it goes my way.

I’ve missed you, Ruth. Glad you’re back. Best laugh I’ve had in days! Congratulations in spite of your misfortune. Hope you take some satisfaction in your swim and bike legs given the conditions. Regards, Kurian Davis P.S: I doubt I would have voted for Ms. Ackles anyway.

Response:

I happened to be running down the hill by Kam III when Daryel was biking up. He had almost exactly three minutes to the cut-off at that time. According to my watch, 10:30 hours was to be 5:36:23.  In fact, I called at to Daryel informing him of how close he was. I am glad he made it.   As for Ruth, she pasted me some minutes later just behind the wheelchair competitor. I am very sorry that Ruth did not make it.  I had the privilege of  sitting with her at the carb load dinner and her comments, suggestions, and sense humor help me get through the race. Are the race directors bias to the