Question:

Do you want a full suspension bike for use in a race?  great for nasty offroad, but robs some pedaling power on the fast sections, no?

Not really if you stay in the saddle and have a nice smooth pedal stroke.  I used to have power loss, but that went away after I went clipless and developed a good stroke.  If you must get out of the saddle, you can get shocks (both front and rear) with lockout. Ned Overend ( a famous MTB racer, now an off road triahtalete) swears by FS. He says that FS retards the onset of fatigue in long races and in the "last hour of a race", the difference between riding a softtail or hardtail really shows.   FS also makes the bike 5 lbs heavier and $500 more expensive (all other components being equal).  Is it worth it?  If the "last hour of the bike portion" is applicable and you have the money to burn, yes.  If your races are shorter, perhaps not. I prefer FS myself. -Regards Dave

Response:

i think the lockout is key if you’re going with a full suspension.  we all know the pain in biking is climbing, and climbing without a rigid tail is much less efficient.  if you can find a inexpensive full with locakout (lockout on the front susp. is nice too) than go with it, otherwise, i would use a hardtail. also, it sort of depends on your long term use of the bike.  if you plan to ride it offroad afterwards, or if you will use it on the road more often after the race.  a hardtail is more functional in the long run… some people (like me!) even through on slicks and aero bars and use them in tris.  of course, you might already have a road bike.. in which case i would say, get the full. regardless, i think specialized, trek and fisher make the best bikes in the "affordable" price range.  trek and fisher frames will generally be the same (i think they might be exactly the same)… specialized has many geometry options depending on how aggressive you want to be positioned when riding. cheers, eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you want a full suspension bike for use in a race?  great for nasty offroad, but robs some pedaling power on the fast sections, no? Not really if you stay in the saddle and have a nice smooth pedal stroke.  I used to have power loss, but that went away after I went clipless and developed a good stroke.  If you must get out of the saddle, you can get shocks (both front and rear) with lockout. Ned Overend ( a famous MTB racer, now an off road triahtalete) swears by FS. He says that FS retards the onset of fatigue in long races and in the "last hour of a race", the difference between riding a softtail or hardtail really shows.   FS also makes the bike 5 lbs heavier and $500 more expensive (all other components being equal).  Is it worth it?  If the "last hour of the bike portion" is applicable and you have the money to burn, yes.  If your races are shorter, perhaps not. I prefer FS myself. -Regards Dave

Response:

Same as TT bikes, get a bike from a reputable maker with quality components that fits well.  I prefer full suspension but you’ll need to spend over 1000 at minimium for a decent one.  I like my Rocky Mountain, my Gary fisher breaks and

Do you want a full suspension bike for use in a race?  great for nasty offroad, but robs some pedaling power on the fast sections, no?   Since I’m not going to buy a new bike for my experiment with HiTec, I’m just going to have to be surprised by what sort of course is presented. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

Do you want a full suspension bike for use in a race?

Yes, absolutely (depending on the terrian)  great for nasty offroad, but robs some pedaling power on the fast sections, no?  

In a true off road course, I find full suspensions benifits far outwiegh the small benefits. Since I’m not going to buy a new bike for my experiment with HiTec, I’m just going to have to be surprised by what sort of course is presented. —

I imagine you will be very surprised.  Keep your ass back and keep a light grip on the bars… Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

Going to do a night time adventure race in July and I will need a MTB. Suggestions for MTB brand and what features to look for (what is hype and what is not).  I don’t want to drop a lot of money (but who does). Please keep flames to a minimum since it’s already hot in Texas.

Response:

Would a cyclocross bike be a viable option for this and any upcoming adventure races?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to do a night time adventure race in July and I will need a MTB. Suggestions for MTB brand and what features to look for (what is hype and what is not).  I don’t want to drop a lot of money (but who does). Please keep flames to a minimum since it’s already hot in Texas.

Response:

Would a cyclocross bike be a viable option for this and any upcoming adventure races?

NO! Going to do a night time adventure race in July and I will need a MTB. Suggestions for MTB brand and what features to look for (what is hype and what is not).  I don’t want to drop a lot of money (but who does). Please keep flames to a minimum since it’s already hot in Texas.

Same as TT bikes, get a bike from a reputable maker with quality components that fits well.  I prefer full suspension but you’ll need to spend over 1000 at minimium for a decent one.  I like my Rocky Mountain, my Gary fisher breaks and is flexy.  I find Cannondale to be hyped up and they are incompatable with other bikes.  I stay away from Trek/Klein/Fisher after my experience with my Fisher.  I understand Titus to be one of the best made (comparable with Kestrel perhaps).  Specialized makes good bikes.  Check mtbr for reviews, can give you a general idea.  I’d advise you to get one soon and ride lots of singletrack if your gonna race in July.  You’ll be amazed at how hard mtb riding can be at first for a well trained roadie/Triathlete.  Your gonna  need lights to and good ones are very pricey, check mtbr for those to. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

Question:

Are you for real?

This subject really pushed your button, eh? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder.

Actually, that’s an incorrect reference. "Newsgroups" are actually part of the Usenet, a discussion forum. If people want to get some excitment in their life by watching a TV program late then they can also avoid reading NEWS from a newsgroup.

It’s attitudes like this that spoil the fun. Listen, you did an excellent job posting the updates. I had fun reliving the experience of watching the race by reading your posts. You brought out a lot that NBC did not. However, the request was politely made and reasonable. And, it is no different than what has been requested in past Olympics on this and other forums. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Of course, now that both races have been shown, it’s pretty much a mute argument. But, maybe we could agree upon something before Athens in 2004… David / FEY2K IMCAL2000 – 16:53 (remove spaces) at att dot net

Response:

Are you for real? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder. If people want to get some excitment in their life by watching a TV program late then they can also avoid reading NEWS from a newsgroup.

He didn’t berate anyone, he simply posted an example of how other NEWS groups manage to give people a choice without stepping on anyone’s toes, and he did so in response to other people’s complaints about it.  It was a perfectly reasonable suggestion, no less reasonable than having people preface ‘for sale’ messages with ‘FS.’  Everyone wins – the post is made, and both those who want the news and those who don’t get what they want.  Exactly who loses in this simple application of common courtesy and consideration for others?

Response:

Just a thought, we do this on game-show discussion groups. If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense) If you post (SPOILER) in the subject line, and include information on the results down in the body of the e-mail, then folks who DON’T want to know, won’t have to find out. One technique used to post text lower in the message is to put the alphabet down the left-side, like so: a b c d e f g…

Response:

Are you for real? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder. If people want to get some excitment in their life by watching a TV program late then they can also avoid reading NEWS from a newsgroup. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a thought, we do this on game-show discussion groups. If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense) If you post (SPOILER) in the subject line, and include information on the results down in the body of the e-mail, then folks who DON’T want to know, won’t have to find out. One technique used to post text lower in the message is to put the alphabet down the left-side, like so: a b c d e f g…

Response:

If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense)

Oh come on get real! Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.  Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t. Anyway its still found your post interesting to read as in what some people consider as net etiquette. HAHAHAHA

Response:

Are you for real? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder.

Oh come on get real! Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.  Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t.

Haha!  Ooops… hey, it was just a suggestion. I wasn’t suggesting that folks curtail what they post, just that they put something in the subject line… oh, forget it! I guess I won’t be getting a placque for "best newsgroup suggestion of the year." Cheers! Streb

Response:

If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense) Oh come on get real! Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.  Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t. Anyway its still found your post interesting to read as in what some people consider as net etiquette. HAHAHAHA

Actually, Tom, I was going to let this go, but your post was so mean-spirited that I’m going to have to take you to task. <<Oh come on get real! I am being real.  I posted this after a similar request by Ruth.  Again, it was just a suggestion.  Sorry it offended you so.  Apparently asking for a little consideration for some folks is cause for you to get excited. Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.

Actually, considering that what I posted had nothing to do with "political correctness" I can only presume have no concept of what political correctness actually is.  Fortunately for you, ignorance is not a crime. Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t.

If you put spoiler info in the subject line, folks don’t have any choice. Again, I was not saying you should NOT post things like this.  I was just offerring a suggestion for those who, unlike you, don’t mind being considerate. By all means, be rude and inconsiderate.  It’s a free country.  I was just offerring a suggestion for those readers who have manners.  I most certainly expect you to ignore it. Anyway its still found your post interesting to read as in what some people consider as net etiquette. HAHAHAHA

Actually, if you go to almost any other newsgroup (including rec.running, right now), you’ll see the word, "spoiler" in the subject line on some posts. Sorry you didn’t know this.  As I said before, ignorance is no crime. Welcome to my kill file, Tom.  You’re an abject jackass. At least Curloo offerred a logical reason for why we shouldn’t tag spoilers.

Response:

Question:

How do you keep the arm rests up? I have two pair and have never been able to keep them up without them falling down. Another option would be to drop by: http://www.profile-design.com Explain the non-working parts to them, and they will ship you the repair parts for free. Profile does have a lifetime warranty. Hope this helps,

Why would you call profile to get spare replacement parts for Scott Aerobars? Isnt that like trying to get parts for a Porsche at Honda?

Response:

How do you keep the arm rests up? I have two pair and have never been able to keep them up without them falling down.

 Another option would be to drop by: http://www.profile-design.com Explain the non-working parts to them, and they will ship you the repair parts for free. Profile does have a lifetime warranty. Hope this helps, awp in sd IMCA inaugural remove spamless to e-mail

Response:

How do you keep the arm rests up? I have two pair and have never been able to keep them up without them falling down.

Try a vial of AeroBarAgra – it should be available at your LBS or pharmacy . . . TriathRon ‘ever the adolescent’ Gilcreast

Response:

How do you keep the arm rests up? I have two pair and have never been able to keep them up without them falling down.

How old are they?  This is the downside of the RCO’s.  As the bars age, the armrests lose their ability to stay up, and they start flopping around (almost as annoying as the ‘Strykes automatically popping up as soon as you remove your arm from the rest).  I’ve taken to using glue of one form or another (superglue, tire glue, etc) to tighten up the pivot point when it gets loose. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

How do you keep the arm rests up? I have two pair and have never been able to keep them up without them falling down.

Response:

I have a pair of the old Scott clip on aero bars, they are still in the bag they came in.  The only problem is that a long time ago I stole the bolt and clip that holds them onto the bullhorns (on one side, the other side is complete).  I don’t think I have the bridge for the top either. I know this may not be much help, but if you are interested you can p.s. I am sure you really like these bars but there are a lot of new bars out there that are more aero, lighter etc.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone out there have any of the old SCOTT clip on aero bars they are not using. I have the pads and arm rests just need the bars. Thanks Alan Ley

Response:

I have a pair of the old Scott clip on aero bars, they are still in the bag they came in.  The only problem is that a long time ago I stole the bolt and clip that holds them onto the bullhorns (on one side, the other side is complete).  I don’t think I have the bridge for the top either. I know this may not be much help, but if you are interested you can p.s. I am sure you really like these bars but there are a lot of new bars out there that are more aero, lighter etc..

Perhaps, but none of them offers the one feature of the RCO’s that I *really* love:  The ability to flip the arm rests up *or* down and have them *stay* in either position.  The Profile "Stryke" series has spring-loaded arm rests that automatically flip up when your arms aren’t in them.  Don’t particularly care for that.  And the Syntace armrests are "fixed", which prevents one from grasping the flat of the bar when climbing.  I *really* wish Syntace would implement this feature of the old RCO’s—I would be one happy camper! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

Does anyone out there have any of the old SCOTT clip on aero bars they are not using. I have the pads and arm rests just need the bars. Thanks Alan Ley

Response:

Question:

as a new trichick, i was overwhelmed by the amount of time one seeds to complete all of your daily workouts.  My trainer has this dilemma solved and yu may want to think about dropping one swim workout.  This is the training schedule i follow and I have found it very helpful.  I am not too tired and I can do some at home and some at the gym, this way one does not feel like they are living in hte gym 24 hours a day.  Monday rest, Tuesday run 1 hour speed and intervals and weights, wednesday swim 1.5 hours and bike 1.25 hours, Thursday swim 1.25 hours and weights, Friday run 1 hour hills, saturday bike 1.5 hours and weights and sunday run 1.5 hours and swim 2 hours.  My ‘A’ race is July so I have less hours at this point than you would have but will increase gradually so i get up to 20 hours.  If swimming is your best than concentrate on your other sports so you can be balanced in all.  and remember do not overtrain.  This willnot do you any good.  Triathalon is fun and I think training is the best part.  There is an excellent book called The triathalete’s training bible by Joe Freil.  this will decipher the training schedule principles for you and get you peaking at the right time.  Train hard, but train smart and good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi.  I’ve enjoyed reading and learning from everyone and I hope someone will know more about how to schedule tri training than I do so I can get some help.  I’ve read all the books, etc., but they don’t address these issues. I’m trying to do a tri in May that is between sprint and olympic distance.  I haven’t run in years and don’t have any bike background, so I need to do a lot of work.  I swim in a Masters program about eight hours per week in four workouts to total exhaustion and don’t want to give that up. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to time bike/run workouts around the swimming?  If I run before swimming, I am extremely tired by the end of the masters practice.  If I bike/run on alternate days, I never have a full day of recovery and I keep reading that recovery is necessary.  I do weight workouts three days a week and so am already at seven workouts a week before adding bike/run. Does "active" recovery really work?  Or should I make certain I have one full day off a week?  And how many weeks should I build up before I can handle two workouts a day without making myself likely to be injured or overtrained?  I am definitely in the Clydesdale category–does that make any difference in how much I can handle? Any help will be appreciated!

Response:

Ideally, to start, try doing 2 workouts of each discipline, per week.  The swim sets your body up for the bike, and the bike sets your body up for the run. Try two of each per week, adding "doubles" after 1 month (2 workouts 3 days per week) Good luck Lynne

Response:

I’m trying to do a tri in May that is between sprint and olympic distance.  I haven’t run in years and don’t have any bike background, so I need to do a lot of work.  I swim in a Masters program about eight hours per week in four workouts to total exhaustion and don’t want to give that up.

Triathlon training is largely about balance.  If you are swimming 2-hour workouts four times a week there is no way you’re going to be able to "balance" that with running and biking, the two segments of the triathlon in which you are weaker and which actually comprise an exponentially larger portion of any race.  A key rule in multisport training is to spend more time in the discipline(s) in which you are weaker, and less in the one(s) in which you are stronger. I suspect that every response you get will consistently say, "Drop 2 swim workouts."  Or, alternatively, drop one of your swim workouts and cut the others to one-hour each rather than two.  You will not lose that much swim fitness, and you will save a huge amount of energy and time that you can devote to the other disciplines.  Basically, you gotta decide:  Do you want to be a swimmer or a triathlete? Sure, you could survive a short tri with minimal bike and run training, but what’s the point? Does anyone have any suggestions for how to time bike/run workouts around the swimming?  If I run before swimming, I am extremely tired by the end of the masters practice.  If I bike/run on alternate days, I never have a full day of recovery and I keep reading that recovery is necessary.  I do weight workouts three days a week and so am already at seven workouts a week before adding bike/run.

Cut back to two lifting sessions per week.  Again, tri training is about balance.  Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too, and unfortunately the only triathletes who can do that are the pros!  You simply cannot do it all.  I *wish* I could continue doing weight training throughout the season, but it’s just not realistic, not only from a time perspective but also from the recovery aspect.   Weight workouts especially leave your body drained, and you get stronger by allowing your muscles to recover and rebuild after stressing them in the gym.     Does "active" recovery really work?  Or should I make certain I have one full day off a week?  

Yes, active recovery really works, but regardless of that you should still have one full day off per week.  It sounds like you are already training at least 11 hours per week; do you not take a single day completely off right now?  I don’t know how you do it! And how many weeks should I build up before I can handle two workouts a day without making myself likely to be injured or overtrained?  

Well, it sounds like you’ve got an enviably solid fitness base to start from, so your transition will probably go a bit quicker than most. However, your muscles, tendons, and joints aren’t necessarily prepared for the kind of pounding that your cardiovascular system might be ready to put them through, so be careful and listen to your body.  For shorter races you really do not need to put pressure on yourself to do two workouts a day, so don’t worry too much about that.  I didn’t start really doing a lot of two-a-days until I moved up to the 1/2-Ironman distance. I am definitely in the Clydesdale category–does that make any difference in how much I can handle?

Depends; everybody’s different.  I don’t think your being a Clydesdale is as much an issue as whether or not you have good running/cycling mechanics. It sounds like you know how to work hard, so the most important thing is that you learn to listen to your body.  Rules of thumb:   – Get in at least two workouts per week in each sport.   – Get plenty of rest, take one full day off from training.   – *LISTEN* to your body.  Since you are used to doing a *LOT* of hard training, don’t get too gung-ho and overdo it—-it’s real easy to burn out fast in this sport.   – Don’t put too much pressure on yourself for that first race.  Don’t worry about a structured training plan.  Do some runs, do some rides, feel comfortable running and riding the distances plus a little extra. Then go and do the race. – HAVE FUN! Oh, and for more info do check out Hulaman’s page, it’s got a lot of good advice: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html Good luck!! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to time bike/run workouts around the swimming?

I’m just getting started also and honestly, I’d think you might want to cut down on the swimming to make some more time.  Sounds as if your swimming background should be more than adequate for that leg of the event, so you could drop down to two swim workouts a week (four hours of swimming is at least six times as long as you’ll spend swimming in the race) to catch up on biking and running.  You can do a lot of biking or running in four hours — way more running than you’d want to do at the outset due to the risk of injury. Two swims, two bikes and two runs a week is the same as the beginners’ program in Triathlete over the last couple of months and isn’t too time-consuming.  In fact, the toughest week in that program is still three hours shorter than you’re already doing with just your swim workouts! If that isn’t enough, you could drop a weight workout.  You should be able to maintain a decent level of strength on two workouts a week.  Also, you can use your runs or shorter bike rides as a warmup for strength training — logistically, that usually works better than lifting after swimming.

Response:

Hi.  I’ve enjoyed reading and learning from everyone and I hope someone will know more about how to schedule tri training than I do so I can get some help.  I’ve read all the books, etc., but they don’t address these issues. I’m trying to do a tri in May that is between sprint and olympic distance.  I haven’t run in years and don’t have any bike background, so I need to do a lot of work.  I swim in a Masters program about eight hours per week in four workouts to total exhaustion and don’t want to give that up. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to time bike/run workouts around the swimming?  If I run before swimming, I am extremely tired by the end of the masters practice.  If I bike/run on alternate days, I never have a full day of recovery and I keep reading that recovery is necessary.  I do weight workouts three days a week and so am already at seven workouts a week before adding bike/run. Does "active" recovery really work?  Or should I make certain I have one full day off a week?  And how many weeks should I build up before I can handle two workouts a day without making myself likely to be injured or overtrained?  I am definitely in the Clydesdale category–does that make any difference in how much I can handle? Any help will be appreciated!

Response:

Question:

Enough about this clydesdale stuff.  Has anyone heard anything about the "hairy legs" division?  I know I was top 10 at IMC. P.S. It is possible to complete an Ironman distance race without shaved legs. SNIP

OK, I’ll bite….   Scott has posted earlier about wanting a Clydesdale division at IMC so that he would have a shot at qualifying for Kona. I don’t buy it, nor does it seem like shaved legs are necessary. As a Clydesdale with unshaven legs, I just missed qualifying at IMC last year in 35-39 with a 10:39.  This year, at 40, I planned on qualifying at IMC until I got derailed by an ankle injury (playing basketball — for all you Clydesdales out there, get your height and weight challenged tri-friends out on the court, then see if your size is a disadvantage!!). Oh well, keep on trying guys.  It may not be fair in triathlon to be large, but life ain’t fair….. John Miller Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

Enough about this clydesdale stuff.  Has anyone heard anything about the "hairy legs" division?  I know I was top 10 at IMC. P.S. It is possible to complete an Ironman distance race without shaved legs. – Andy "I do not even like to shave my face, why would I want to shave my legs" Tumpowsky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – seems like IMH may follow suit.  I think Canada, Lake Placid, and Switzerland all have Clydesdales at this point. Scott GFT has always had a Clydesdale division. Same with ALL the race put CFT Sommer Sports. Fred Sommer is a GREAT supporter of the "BIG Boys Club". Check it out you won’t be disappointed. Terry

Response:

Enough about this clydesdale stuff.  Has anyone heard anything about the "hairy legs" division?  I know I was top 10 at IMC. P.S. It is possible to complete an Ironman distance race without shaved legs.

Damn straight, it is.   Heck, I’d never seen so many guys with shaved legs since that Le Cage show in Las Vegas…  <g Mike "Ooooooh, now I’m gonna get it" Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

Response:

seems like IMH may follow suit.  I think Canada, Lake Placid, and Switzerland all have Clydesdales at this point.

Scott GFT has always had a Clydesdale division. Same with ALL the race put CFT Sommer Sports. Fred Sommer is a GREAT supporter of the "BIG Boys Club". Check it out you won’t be disappointed. Terry

Response:

Enough about this clydesdale stuff.  Has anyone heard anything about the "hairy legs" division?  I know I was top 10 at IMC. P.S. It is possible to complete an Ironman distance race without shaved legs. – Andy "I do not even like to shave my face, why would I want to shave my legs" Tumpowsky

OK, I know this was made against ME, Andy!!  Since I don’t have to shave my face that much, I spend that time on my legs!! — Tri Your Hardest!   /O     ___o      o    ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)      /           Darrin Bartlett IMC ‘98 11:59.59

Response:

Howdy.  Been lurking here at r.s.t. for, jeepers, months now and want to thank all of you for the wealth of advice, suggestions, tips, tricks, pointers, hints, opinions, knowledge, notions, encouragement, and especially for the WAY positive camaraderie. This is the most well-mannered and on-target newsgroup I’ve ever seen. But let’s talk about me: Did my first tri on May 5, 1998 – the Evanston (Wyoming) Rec Center Tri.  A sprint.  5K run, 12-mile bike, 500-yard swim in a pool, in that order.  This alleviated some swim timing problems as people got spread out on the run and bike and then straggled in to the pool swim. Started raining during the run and then just poured down a hard rain during the bike leg.  Sun finally came out just as I went inside for the swim.  Did the whole thing in 1:21:06.  Got me a fifth in the age group (I’m 49.) and a middle- of-the-pack finish overall.  Young guy, looked like a whippet, won the thing in 58 minutes and some seconds. Had a so-so run, a great bike, and a less than so-so swim.  I can swim a mile easy in my slow but steady way, but this time when I went in the water I was still breathing heavy from my effort on the bike and had to breast-stroke a few laps until I caught ahold of my breath. So intent was I during the whole race that I did not drink anything even though I had water with me on the bike.  Probably shoulda. My second tri was the Spudman Tri, olympic distance, in Burley, Idaho, on July 25.  Another middle-of-the-age group/pack finish in 2:37:34.  Same young whippet who won the Evanston Sprint won this one too in one:fifty-something. The swim was a mile downstream in the Snake River.  Thanks to the current, I did the swim in 20 min.  Usually takes me about 35 min in a pool.  Yessirree, loved that swim. The bike was an out-and-back with rollers but no real hills.  I passed scores of people on the bike.  I ride a $450 GT mountain bike with an aero bar and slick tires, and I find it positively thrilling to pass guys in their twenties who were riding way-cool bikes. Got out on the run quickly after the bike.  Those big muscles where the back of the legs meet the butt were not a’liking it for about a mile or so but after that things smoothed out.  I continued to pass people on the run. This time I over-compensated in the hydration dept.  I drank about half a gallon of straight Gatorade during the bike leg and ended up with terrible dry mouth. I tried a bite of Cliff Bar.  It felt like I’d put ashes in my mouth.  When I started the run, my stomach felt painfully full, but this eased and then disappeared after about a mile of the run. Third and last tri for 1998 was the Vernal Dinosaur Tri in Vernal, Utah, on Aug 8.  Another olympic distance one.  Another middle of the pack finish. Had a terrible swim on this one.  It was the classic didn’t warm up for the swim properly.  The race announcer was counting down from 10 seconds to go when I finally made it to the water. Soon as I started swimming I began hyperventilating.  I had to breast and back stroke to the first buoy.  After that I could breath OK and swam normally.  I was the next to last person out of the lake.  But then my trusty bike saw me through a kinda hilly course and past a few dozen other riders. I didn’t hammer the bike quite so hard this time and had no muscle problems at all going into the run.  Passed several more people on the run.  Felt good at the finish.  Felt strong. Hydration was much better this time.  I used water with just a little Gatorade added.  Still experimenting with this and gels, carbo-bars, etc. All in all I feel great about everything.  Two years ago I was a heavy smoking (unfiltered Camels) couch potato, 50 pounds overweight.  Took me 10 months (Jan- Oct97) to lose the 50 pounds.  Put 3,500 miles on my bike in one year, including long rides at -10 degrees (F) last December here in Wyoming. Didn’t start swimming until Feb98 but that’s coming along. I learned so much.  I feel so good.  Really looking forward to next season. Thanks for the inspiration. Paul Rock   Pinedale, Wyoming Where the skies are not cloudy all day prpi at wyoming dot com "They laughed when I got out of the water, But when I got on the bike … "

Response:

Does anyone know if IMH will have a clydesdale division.  I see IMC and IMUSA are having the "fat boys club"!!  This may be my only chance.

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Scott, Excellent question…Currently there is no Clydesdale Division at IMH…..However, b.there is a group in Indianapolis called TeamClydesdale.  Guy East and friends are working tirelessly on gettting some spots opened up….will it be 1999?  That is the mission but we shall have to wait and see. In the meantime check out the website at www.teamclydesdale.com, talk to race directors and fellow triathletes to keep the momentum going and send Guy an email (the address is on the web page) and find out what you might do to help. Train Well Tom Livingston, Clydesdale and Loyal To The Sport Portland, OR

Response:

Scott, Excellent question…Currently there is no Clydesdale Division at IMH…..However, b.there is a group in Indianapolis called TeamClydesdale.  Guy East and friends are working tirelessly on gettting some spots opened up….will it be 1999?  That is the mission but we shall have to wait and see. In the meantime check out the website at www.teamclydesdale.com, talk to race directors and fellow triathletes to keep the momentum going and send Guy an email (the address is on the web page) and find out what you might do to help. Train Well Tom Livingston, Clydesdale and Loyal To The Sport Portland, OR

Thanks Tom.  The more we show our interest, the greater our chances.  It seems like IMH may follow suit.  I think Canada, Lake Placid, and Switzerland all have Clydesdales at this point.

Response:

Did my first tri on May 5, 1998 – the Evanston (Wyoming) Rec Center Tri.  A sprint.  5K run, 12-mile bike, 500-yard swim in a pool, in that order.  This alleviated some swim timing problems as people got spread out on the run and bike and then straggled in to the pool swim.

Oooooh, I HATE those things. My very first tri had the swim last and I almost drowned. <g It sounds like you had a great first year. Congratulations! Mike Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Does anyone know if IMH is having a clydesdale division for 1999.  This may be my only chance of qualifying Scott ‘99 IMC  13:17:47

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Paul, Nice to read your post.  I too, have competed in my first triathlons this summer — in no small part influenced and encouraged by reading RST.  I am preparing for my third and last tri of the summer on Sept. 20.  It is an Oly distance race.  The other two were sprints.  It’s nice to read that you felt OK at this distance.  I was a little worried about doubling the bike and run — though I have been training 7-10 hrs a week all summer. Congratulations on your accomplishments, especially quitting smoking.  I know this is a huge mountain to climb.  Here’s to a good off-season!  I’m hoping to do a 1/2 IM next year.  You? Lance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy.     Been lurking here at r.s.t. for, jeepers, months now and want to thank all of you for the wealth of advice, suggestions, tips, tricks, pointers, hints, opinions, knowledge, notions, encouragement, and especially for the WAY positive camaraderie. This is the most well-mannered and on-target newsgroup I’ve ever seen. But let’s talk about me: Did my first tri on May 5, 1998 – the Evanston (Wyoming) Rec Center Tri.  A sprint.  5K run, 12-mile bike, 500-yard swim in a pool, in that order.  This alleviated some swim timing problems as people got spread out on the run and bike and then straggled in to the pool swim. Started raining during the run and then just poured down a hard rain during the bike leg.  Sun finally came out just as I went inside for the swim.  Did the whole thing in 1:21:06.  Got me a fifth in the age group (I’m 49.) and a middle- of-the-pack finish overall.  Young guy, looked like a whippet, won the thing in 58 minutes and some seconds. Had a so-so run, a great bike, and a less than so-so swim.  I can swim a mile easy in my slow but steady way, but this time when I went in the water I was still breathing heavy from my effort on the bike and had to breast-stroke a few laps until I caught ahold of my breath. So intent was I during the whole race that I did not drink anything even though I had water with me on the bike.  Probably shoulda. My second tri was the Spudman Tri, olympic distance, in Burley, Idaho, on July 25.  Another middle-of-the-age group/pack finish in 2:37:34.  Same young whippet who won the Evanston Sprint won this one too in one:fifty-something. The swim was a mile downstream in the Snake River.  Thanks to the current, I did the swim in 20 min.  Usually takes me about 35 min in a pool.  Yessirree, loved that swim. The bike was an out-and-back with rollers but no real hills.  I passed scores of people on the bike.     I ride a $450 GT mountain bike with an aero bar and slick tires, and I find it positively thrilling to pass guys in their twenties who were riding way-cool bikes. Got out on the run quickly after the bike.  Those big muscles where the back of the legs meet the butt were not a’liking it for about a mile or so but after that things smoothed out.  I continued to pass people on the run. This time I over-compensated in the hydration dept.  I drank about half a gallon of straight Gatorade during the bike leg and ended up with terrible dry mouth. I tried a bite of Cliff Bar.  It felt like I’d put ashes in my mouth.     When I started the run, my stomach felt painfully full, but this eased and then disappeared after about a mile of the run. Third and last tri for 1998 was the Vernal Dinosaur Tri in Vernal, Utah, on Aug 8.     Another olympic distance one.  Another middle of the pack finish. Had a terrible swim on this one.  It was the classic didn’t warm up for the swim properly.     The race announcer was counting down from 10 seconds to go when I finally made it to the water. Soon as I started swimming I began hyperventilating.  I had to breast and back stroke to the first buoy.  After that I could breath OK and swam normally.  I was the next to last person out of the lake.  But then my trusty bike saw me through a kinda hilly course and past a few dozen other riders. I didn’t hammer the bike quite so hard this time and had no muscle problems at all going into the run.  Passed several more people on the run.  Felt good at the finish.  Felt strong. Hydration was much better this time.  I used water with just a little Gatorade added.  Still experimenting with this and gels, carbo-bars, etc. All in all I feel great about everything.  Two years ago I was a heavy smoking (unfiltered Camels) couch potato, 50 pounds overweight.  Took me 10 months (Jan- Oct97) to lose the 50 pounds.  Put 3,500 miles on my bike in one year, including long rides at -10 degrees (F) last December here in Wyoming. Didn’t start swimming until Feb98 but that’s coming along. I learned so much.  I feel so good.  Really looking forward to next season. Thanks for the inspiration. Paul Rock   Pinedale, Wyoming Where the skies are not cloudy all day prpi at wyoming dot com "They laughed when I got out of the water, But when I got on the bike … "

– | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

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Question:

I cannot afford a bicycle, so I am planning to train for only the running and swimming, which I believe is called a biathlon (but not the skiing and shooting one) I’m curious if anyone has any information on this event. Thanks

These races are few and far between, much more common among biathlons/duathlons are running/biking events, I’d suggest finding someone who bikes and race as a team at a triathlon, most tri’s have a catagorie for teams.  Of course I’d highly recommend saving up a few hundred bucks and getting a entry-level bike and particapating solo in a tri, it’s well worth it.  Until then why not try out a race as a team, I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding a cyclist, you could always start looking here, or a bike shop, and your entry fee will be cheaper also as a team, good luck Tim Hignett Buaidh No Bas http://members.aol.com/hignett/index.html

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running and swimming, which I believe is called a biathlon information on this event.

In the early 70s a few lifeguard teams (cities & countys) use to put on some really fun beach biathlons in coastal areas in the SE USA.   So. Fla., North & So.Carolina, Virginia, all had competitions, but I now only see a few in SC.   Some of the distances use to be from around a 1m swim w/ 2m run,  up to 5k swim & 5k run. I’ve thought it woud be fun to do a triathlon based on an age group average of a 60min. swim, 60min. bike, and a 60min. run. Dan Herrema

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I am planning to train for only the running and swimming, I’m curious if anyone has any information on this event.

South Florida has two or three of these, usually in the winter ( go figure? ). Two of which are ocean swim/beach run and one that was in a park and had a run, swim, run, swim, run. I wonder how many will be back next year as they all were poorly attended…

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I cannot afford a bicycle, so I am planning to train for only the running and swimming, which I believe is called a biathlon (but not the skiing and shooting one) I’m curious if anyone has any information on this event. Thanks

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Question:

Does anybody have any suggestions as to appropriate gear ratios for Nice?

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Does anybody have any suggestions as to appropriate gear ratios for Nice?

I’m not that strong on the bike and I use (50,39)x(12,20). Pro don’t even use the small ring! — F. Desprez

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Hi,         Living in Nice area, I’m used to train on the total bike part or on portions only. The race is not a hard race with very tough climbing portions, i would say it is designed for the powerful riders. I’m riding a 650 bike with 55/42 and I do not feel it being hard to use only the 55 ring. I think it can be good to have a 52 (700 wheels bikes) because of the going downs (descentes en Fran

Question:

I like a race director who listens to the masses. I hope my schedule allows me to do some of Tom’s races.  

Damn, There go my hopes at winning any of these races! If we want officials to be tough, we’re going to have to live with some tough calls.  I hope no one complains about being penalized for drafting.

Amen on this one, Jimmy. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a hockey player tell the referee "He jumped in front of my stick, ref! I’m not going to the penalty box! Okay, fine, I just won’t play in your games anymore." If you get caught, take some personal responsibility. Amen on this one, Jimmy. A group trained by the athletes.  Athletes who know what drafting is.  

5 meters is really easy to recognize. It’s smaller than a semi and larger than a yugo. Even untrained dopes can tell the difference. Thanks for listening Tom.

Ditto. Joshua Allen

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Mr. Ziebart: I commend you on your decision to eliminate drafting from your races. Know I will once again compete in your race series during 1996.  I live in Sarasota and my training partners all boycotted the Siesta Key race (as well as the rest of the series) because of your drafting policy.  We all spent the summer at the Clermont races due to Fred’s no drafting policy.   Thanks for the change of heart.  I will see you at YOUR races in 1996. Neil McCurry

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It’s time to name the officials, give them attention for doing an utterly thankless job, recognize the most deserving ones in the awards ceremonies, and generally make it worth their while to make efficient although unpopular calls.

An excellent idea which, I think, deserves serious consideration. After all, who officiates the World Series or the Super Bowl? Some guy who lives near the stadium and owns a striped shirt and whistle? Of course not. They’re there because they distiguished themselves during the regular season. I know someone who marshals USCF bicycle races. He had to first become a certified official. He spends most of his weekends traveling around the state, working at races. He is paid for his services. The racers throughout the state recognize him and appreciate his professionalism. Of course, most of those races are "pack" situations, but USCF officials also monitor time trials. I know that race organizers don’t have the budget to hire enough such people to monitor an entire tri bike course. However, if each race had a "certified" marshal to provide a training session for the volunteer marshals, and to be out patroling the course on race day, the situation would probably improve noticeably. Additionally, the volunteer marshals might receive some inspiration from working with a "professional", and some would probably decide they like it enough to become certified themselves. Well, enough rambling for now. I guess not everyone will agree with me, but it’s food for thought. Chris Christopher N. Baucom Gastonia, NC

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It’s time to name the officials, give them attention for doing an utterly thankless job, recognize the most deserving ones in the awards ceremonies, and generally make it worth their while to make efficient although unpopular calls. Ruth Kazez I believe that most officials do the best job possible in making sure that rules are followed in a USAT sancitons event.  The problem is with the number of officials needed to properly officiate a race.  With 500 participants – 3-5 motorcycles with officials on them cannot see everthing.  That is the main problem with officiating the drafting rules. At some point during the race, athletes will be able to draft and not be in view of an official.  It is very easy to move out of a drafting zone when you hear a motorcycle coming up in back of you on a bike course.  I am looking forward to going back to non-drafting races in the hope that we will see a greater number of participants.  I am not looking forward to the after race confrontations with upset athletes about drafting call or the lack of drafting calls.   Also USAT has many fine officials but they cannot be at every race on every weekend.  I am sure that the Gatorade Triathlon Series will get the best officials possible in the area that the race takes place.   Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

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I believe that most officials do the best job possible in making sure that rules are followed in a USAT sancitons event.  The problem is with the number of officials needed to properly officiate a race.  With 500 participants – 3-5 motorcycles with officials on them cannot see everthing.  That is the main problem with officiating the drafting rules.

Here on rst we have read about draft marshals that don’t give "stop and goes".  This is a simple solution for that official, but if he (or she) started to give out draft calls, the rumours will fly with the wind, and next year less people will draft. So in my oppinon, you dont have to increase the numbers of marshalls by many, just tell them to enforce the rules more strict. I have background from a sport quite populare in Norway, its a sport called telemark.  It’s much like slalom, but you have to do the turns in a specific way.  If you dont do it the right way, you get a penalty (added to your time).  Well, at some races the judges was not as strict as others, competitors knew this, by experience, so some races we (and those who knew about this)relaxed our style (thus going faster), and at some races we focused not to do a wrong turn. What I am saying is that by starting to enforce it as it is supposed to be enforced, the word will be passed around that it is not benificial to draft. voice: +47-73.59.14.92 http://www.ktek.unit.no/ansatte/kaj/index.htm

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I like a race director who listens to the masses. I hope my schedule allows me to do some of Tom’s races.  If I receive a penalty for drafting, I promise not to bitch.  This is a big promise from me, as I’m quite the bitcher. If we want officials to be tough, we’re going to have to live with some tough calls.  I hope no one complains about being penalized for drafting. In my twelve years as a triathlete, I’ve learned one thing:  If you get penalized for drafting, you certainly deserve it.  I’ve learned that you have to try pretty hard to be penalized for drafting.  The calls just aren’t made that often.   It’s time we take the burden off the race director and the athlete, and put it on the officials.  It is, after all, their job.  Volunteer or not. I hate the "I’m a volunteer excuse."  If you don’t want the responsibility, don’t volunteer. As an athlete, I want competent officiating.  I’m willing to have some $’s added to my license fee to pay a select group of officials.  A group trained by the athletes.  Athletes who know what drafting is.   I think the stagger rule should be adopted by USAT.  The pros use it, and it works quite well.  I think it can work in the age groups, and it certainly simplifies the official’s job, and makes it easier for the official to make the race as fair as possible. Thanks for listening Tom. Sincerely, Jimmy Riccitello

Response:

I like a race director who listens to the masses. I hope my schedule allows me to do some of Tom’s races.

Way to go, Jimmy!  After watching your "solo" against the pack at St. Croix, you’ve certainly earned the right to bitch about drafting all you want… By the way, QRMan indicated in a recent post that you’ve joined his camp, so maybe he can make it worth your while to adjust your schedule and support Z’s series. I think the stagger rule should be adopted by USAT.  The pros use it, and it works quite well.  I think it can work in the age groups, and it certainly simplifies the official’s job, and makes it easier for the official to make the race as fair as possible.

What’s the "stagger rule"?  Do you mean starting the athletes in smaller, staggered groups, like Memphis in May and Bally’s in Minneapolis?  This is a great format, though the only place I’ve ever experienced it is in a small local Park District race in my hometown.  I still like the idea of a swim divided into three even "lanes", using the two outside lanes for swimming out and sharing the center lane for swimming back (Skylands Tri in NJ uses this format).  You could send ten at a time (by race bib number), five in each lane, every 20-30 seconds.  A race with 600 people would take about 20-30:00 to start every competitor, and they’d be nicely spread out by the end of the swim. See you at the races- Mike Llerandi

Response:

I expect to again here the complaints at each race next year that someone was drafting and the officials did not make the correct call.

It’s time to name the officials, give them attention for doing an utterly thankless job, recognize the most deserving ones in the awards ceremonies, and generally make it worth their while to make efficient although unpopular calls. Ruth Kazez

Response:

Nice way to start the 96 season. –

Response:

writes: The 1996 Gatorade Triathlon Series will not allow drafting the elite division.  Each race of the series will follow Tri-Fed USA drafting rules in all divisions.  The final series achedule will be set on January 15th, 1996.  Call ESM at 407-241-3801 for more information.  Z Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Hooray!  

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Path: msunews!uwm.edu!hookup!news.umbc.edu!umbc10.umbc.edu!awilke1 Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Awesome!!! How ’bout bringing some races to the MD-VA-DE region. Andy

Don’t forget PA. Rod

Response:

The 1996 Gatorade Triathlon Series will not allow drafting the elite division.  Each race of the series will follow Tri-Fed USA drafting rules in all divisions.  The final series achedule will be set on January 15th, 1996.  Call ESM at 407-241-3801 for more information.  Z Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Tom, This is GREAT!!!!!!!  I’m just curious, why the change of heart? Are you going to write a rebutal to your previous script in 220? Thanks!!!! Lucy

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Good for you, Tom! I questioned your motivation for allowing drafting this year, but despite criticism from myself and many others, you stuck with your guns. This is quite admirable. Now you have done something that deserves even greater applause. You have changed your mind. To reverse your previous decision (for whatever reason) takes more courage than many of us will ever have. Conviction in one’s beliefs in the face of criticism is rare today. Open-mindedness is an endangered species altogether. Congratulations, Tom. You have shown us all that triathlon and its spirit is alive and well. Sincerely, Josh Allen

Response:

Thank you for all of the postive comments about ESM getting rid of drafting in the elite divisions of the Gatorade Triathlon Series.  Many of you have asked why we changed our minds about drafting.  Basically it was a finacial move – a number of athletes would not participate in draft legal races and we need people to participate in order to make the race budgets work.  The cost of officials is easily covered by the 10-15 athletes that will participate now the we have made this change back to non-drafting races. The draft legal elite division went well this summer – no complaints from athletes about drafting violation.  We had some fantastic races with a number of close finishes with the draft legal format.  I  beleive that there is a place in the sport for draft legal races, based on the type of course that the RD has to work with.   I expect to again here the complaints at each race next year that someone was drafting and the officials did not make the correct call.  But i will gladly listen to these complaints and count the extra $200- $300 in entry fees that we would have missed from a draft legal event. The power is in you pocketbook, but I still don’t think that is of any concern to the ITU..  Z Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Response:

The 1996 Gatorade Triathlon Series will not allow drafting the elite division.  Each race of the series will follow Tri-Fed USA drafting rules in all divisions.  The final series achedule will be set on January 15th, 1996.  Call ESM at 407-241-3801 for more information.  Z Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Response:

The 1996 Gatorade Triathlon Series will not allow drafting the elite division.  Each race of the series will follow Tri-Fed USA drafting rules in all divisions.  

EXCELLENT! —                   __o       o                 _ <_      <      __/o_    (_)/(_)     /

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Tom,  See you at the races. Andrew Peabody

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I think thats great news for the integrity of TriFed’s position, Thanks Tom. Bruce Platt

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No drafting at Gatorade. Hooooray! Brian Sullivan

Response:

The 1996 Gatorade Triathlon Series will not allow drafting the elite division.  Each race of the series will follow Tri-Fed USA drafting rules in all divisions.  The final series achedule will be set on January 15th, 1996.  Call ESM at 407-241-3801 for more information.  Z Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Alright Tom!!!!   Let’s us know how it goes. (I’m sure you will) Finally someone is willing to pay attention.  I curious to see how this compares with last years series. John (If I’m in the area.. now I would race one of these) K.

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Cheers!!! Way to go Tom!! I will participate!!!! Thanks! Sam

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More fun for everyone!  Now I will really know how bad my times are compared to the elites. (No sarcasm intended at all)                                            Byron

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Finally, some good news!

Response:

Question:

: My concern is that we are beginning to focus here more on the differences : we have than the similarities. While a number of us are on opposite sides : of some issues regarding the direction our sport will take, we may be : losing sight of the fact that we, each of us, share a common bond in the : challenge that we accepted when we first crawled from the ooze of everyday : living, to become triathletes. I would venture to say that there is not : one person on this group whose company I would not enjoy on my Sunday run : or a long ride (should I ever take one again). Maybe we would argue about : drafting or debate the various merits of one race over another but we : would be "brothers (sisters) in arms" at the end. What I see happening, at : least in some instances, is the discussion moving from healthy debate to : bad feelings and bad wishes. Pardon me for sounding like the "voice of : triathlon", that is not my intention, but this is not what we are about. : Whatever challenges face us, we can overcome them and make our sport : better. After all, isn’t that what triathlon is about? : In the end, I think we can each contribute to this group in our own way : and let the dynamic take us where it will and in the end remain friends. : While the world around us is carving itself up into ever more insulated : and self interested groups, we have a unique opportunity to take the : opposite tack and provide an open forum for discussion and debate without : naming an enemy. To paraphrase Pogo.."We have met the enemy, and he is : us". I agree with you Scott and enjoyed reading your post.I especially liked the Pogo paraphrase. I have found in the last few years when meeting others,whether they are into triathlon or not is that people are thinking as individuals and not as a whole. It seems there is less respect for others. People are unwilling to be opened minded and find it easier to flame someone rather than to accept them. I have changed my attitudes towards others and I it is a result of my triathlon lifestyle. I am challenging myself daily. Therefore I can accept  new changes in my life whether it learning about holistic medicine or a new diet. I have been on the other side so I understand where I have been and where i am going. I may be rambling but hey the airwaves are open to everyone and their opinions. Later, TriFiend

Response:

: My concern is that we are beginning to focus here more on the differences : we have than the similarities. tons o’cool stuff deleted by necessity… : In the end, I think we can each contribute to this group in our own way : and let the dynamic take us where it will and in the end remain friends. : While the world around us is carving itself up into ever more insulated : and self interested groups, we have a unique opportunity to take the : opposite tack and provide an open forum for discussion and debate without : naming an enemy. more stuff hacked out…. : The thing that made me continue on in triathlon for ten years was the more : than anything the people and the friendships I have met and made. They are : here and they are us. : If you read this far, thanks for allowing me the space to express my : opinion….again. you’re welcome…. : ZAG I agree with pretty much all of what you said. It does sound though like you need a race to get you cranked up about being a triathlete. Surely one eensy weensy race wouldn’t cut into your business and/or family time too much. Hey, come on up to Canada and race with us for a change. I/we would love to be embarrased by you in a race. (I’ll see you in the food line after the race) TriDork

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<snip, gooey stuff I agree.  We all ought to get along better.  I mean, aren’t we all after the same thing, basically?  We’re kind of spiritual brothers and sisters, in a way.   Hey, wait a minute.  Aren’t you the commie pinko who wrote that drafting legal races for the pros were okay?!   Hell with you. QRman

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To me, rst has become sort of a "cyber newspaper" to which I turn every morning for news, opinions, results and general gossip. It’s 7 a.m., just back from my run, breakfast can wait while I check out rst and see what’s new.  What’s up with TriDork, how’s Jo doing,where has JJ been lately? Wes? yeah, those pros are all work and no play, John "motto de jour" K, qrMAN whose abandonment of capitals as protest to the world remains the gem of rst for me, SZag (why doesn’t that guy leave the axis and join the allies?) Tricia, Bryan, Brug, Cathy, Baringo, John, Rolf, Josh, Aukman, Kim, both Erics, where has that Finn gone?, Wouter, David, Pat, Lee, Art and Lee and $cott (the one with the puberty flare-ups,) Cory (my fellow hedonist in residence) and all the other regulars?  This is better than the mailbox.  When the Internews is on the blink an important part of my day is missing. Ruth Kazez

Wow!  I feel honored having my name dropped in that list! Thanks Ruth, made my day! kbb Kim B. Blair, Ph.D.                     Senior Staff Scientist 1033 Massachusetts Ave                  (617) 354-3124 Cambridge, MA  02138                    (617) 491-4522 (fax)

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 While out running on the trails

Hay Zag, Your still a triathlete and always will be. You don’t have to race to prove your metal. Keep care of that family. Wayne

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While out running on the trails behind my house this Sunday past, my mind was wandering, as it often does, lulled into an almost hypnotic state by the metronomic sound of the dirt crunching under my feet. Often times, this run is one of the few times I have for contemplation during the week, what with a new baby in the house, a ten year old daughter to whom I am a part time father, and a business which keeps me away from them and my wife far more than I would like. Given this, you might find it strange that the theme of my mental meanderings was this newsgroup. Over the course of the last year, rst has become something of a touchstone for me and triathlon.

[snip]  Maybe we would argue about – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -drafting or debate the various merits of one race over another but we would be "brothers (sisters) in arms" at the end. What I see happening, at least in some instances, is the discussion moving from healthy debate to bad feelings and bad wishes. Pardon me for sounding like the "voice of triathlon", that is not my intention, but this is not what we are about. Whatever challenges face us, we can overcome them and make our sport better. After all, isn’t that what triathlon is about? In the end, I think we can each contribute to this group in our own way and let the dynamic take us where it will and in the end remain friends. While the world around us is carving itself up into ever more insulated and self interested groups, we have a unique opportunity to take the opposite tack and provide an open forum for discussion and debate without naming an enemy. To paraphrase Pogo.."We have met the enemy, and he is us". [snip] ZAG

Scott, I think you raise excellent points … I feel that triathlon has really enriched my life.  A lot of the enrichment is due to the obvious things, like better fitness and (to me at least) the fun activities, but I think the BEST of that enrichment has to do with the people I’ve encountered both during training and racing, and here in rst.  I’ve been doing this for years, umm, 13 years now, and I’m still happily surprised at the enthusiasm and friendliness of almost everyone I meet thru tri’ing. I also hope that rst remains the friendly forum that I’ve come to know it as … but … on one of my long runs I thought about your analogy that we’re brothers and sisters in arms (and legs).  I think this is a good analogy, brothers, sisters, friends.  But what does a family or good group of friends do when say they have a crazy Uncle Lester whose actions affect the entire group.  What if Uncle Les says that drugs and explicit sex are bad, but they will get us lots of TV time, and everybody else does it.  Uncle Les says that if we want to get on TV, let’s just ignore the problems, because heck, it’s just too hard to check for drugs, and all TV stars do drugs anyway.   I obviously don’t have an answer … (and I guess it’s also obvious that I don’t like drugs (or drafting). And I don’t think TV time or the Olympics or anything are worth it.)  But I 2nd your wish that these issues don’t cause interpersonal conflicts. The company I work for has a saying "Let’s attack the problems, not the people".  (They rarely follow their own advice, but it’s a nice saying). Tony

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To me, rst has become sort of a "cyber newspaper" to which I turn every morning for news, opinions, results and general gossip.

It’s 7 a.m., just back from my run, breakfast can wait while I check out rst and see what’s new.  What’s up with TriDork, how’s Jo doing,where has JJ been lately? Wes? yeah, those pros are all work and no play, John "motto de jour" K, qrMAN whose abandonment of capitals as protest to the world remains the gem of rst for me, SZag (why doesn’t that guy leave the axis and join the allies?) Tricia, Bryan, Brug, Cathy, Baringo, John, Rolf, Josh, Aukman, Kim, both Erics, where has that Finn gone?, Wouter, David, Pat, Lee, Art and Lee and $cott (the one with the puberty flare-ups,) Cory (my fellow hedonist in residence) and all the other regulars?  This is better than the mailbox.  When the Internews is on the blink an important part of my day is missing. Ruth Kazez

Response:

While out running on the trails behind my house this Sunday past, my mind was wandering, as it often does, lulled into an almost hypnotic state by the metronomic sound of the dirt crunching under my feet. Often times, this run is one of the few times I have for contemplation during the week, what with a new baby in the house, a ten year old daughter to whom I am a part time father, and a business which keeps me away from them and my wife far more than I would like. Given this, you might find it strange that the theme of my mental meanderings was this newsgroup. Over the course of the last year, rst has become something of a touchstone for me and triathlon. To me, rst has become sort of a "cyber newspaper" to which I turn every morning for news, opinions, results and general gossip. During the course of the past few months there has been a recurring theme that has come to bother me and I thought I would take a moment to share my concerns with you all. Let me preface this observation with the fact that it has been a year since I last competed and I miss almost every aspect of going racing badly. Which is just the way I was racing when I finally decided to hang it up for a time to devote my energy to business and family. This is exactly why this forum has become an integral part of my life. Some of the things I miss most, the camaraderie, the sharing amongst people who have faced similar challenges, setbacks, victories and embarrassments, I can find here every morning. rst doesn’t replace those early morning rides, or that great feeling after a hard track workout, or that super clean feeling you get after masters that seems to last all day, but it helps. My concern is that we are beginning to focus here more on the differences we have than the similarities. While a number of us are on opposite sides of some issues regarding the direction our sport will take, we may be losing sight of the fact that we, each of us, share a common bond in the challenge that we accepted when we first crawled from the ooze of everyday living, to become triathletes. I would venture to say that there is not one person on this group whose company I would not enjoy on my Sunday run or a long ride (should I ever take one again). Maybe we would argue about drafting or debate the various merits of one race over another but we would be "brothers (sisters) in arms" at the end. What I see happening, at least in some instances, is the discussion moving from healthy debate to bad feelings and bad wishes. Pardon me for sounding like the "voice of triathlon", that is not my intention, but this is not what we are about. Whatever challenges face us, we can overcome them and make our sport better. After all, isn’t that what triathlon is about? In the end, I think we can each contribute to this group in our own way and let the dynamic take us where it will and in the end remain friends. While the world around us is carving itself up into ever more insulated and self interested groups, we have a unique opportunity to take the opposite tack and provide an open forum for discussion and debate without naming an enemy. To paraphrase Pogo.."We have met the enemy, and he is us". The thing that made me continue on in triathlon for ten years was the more than anything the people and the friendships I have met and made. They are here and they are us. If you read this far, thanks for allowing me the space to express my opinion….again. ZAG

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Question:

Waxing isn’t as bad as it sounds.  I’ve had it done twice.  You don’t have to worry about shaving for about 6 weeks so that makes it nice.  Also, it doesn’t hurt as much where you think it will, like the inner thigh, and it hurts more where you think it won’t, like your knees.  You will look like a plucked chicken for a couple of days but that goes away.  And by the way, I do have hairy legs.  You might want to trim the hair a little before you go. Good luck on your decision.  Try it at least once and decide for yourself. Tom

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:    Now that spring is slowly arriving and we have positive : temperatures here in Toronto, it is time to get rid of all that : hair on the legs that I have lazily let accumulate over the winter. : For the last three years I have mainly used a regular blade razor in : the bath tub, but have also tried electric (still leaves uncomfortable : stubble), and neat (does not work welln my coarse hair)r).  Now a : couple of my female friends want me to come with them when they get : their legs waxed (most likly just to watch me in pain).  Have any : of you males with course leg hair tried this method?  Is it worth : the temporary pain I’m told it inflicts?  How long does it last? : Most importanly, how long till the red blotches go away and my : legs look cool again  ? : — I haven’t had any personal experiences, but have thought about this, too. Can’t figure out if I feel like explaining, "No, no, I’m a triathlete, not a drag queen…" to the people at the place. I guess if I could handle the "what the hell are you doing in there" I got when I shaved my legs for the first time (in a college dorm, BTW), and explain why, a month or so later, the whole bathroom reeked of Nair, then I can handle anything!     — | Jonathan Acey Albert             | | University of Florida            | | http://nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu/~acey |

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I tried waxing for a few months, and it worked better than the blade.  The only problem was the cost:  $50 for a full waxing (both legs).  If you’ve got the money and a high threshold for pain, then go for it. Michael Milner

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   Now that spring is slowly arriving and we have positive temperatures here in Toronto, it is time to get rid of all that hair on the legs that I have lazily let accumulate over the winter. For the last three years I have mainly used a regular blade razor in the bath tub, but have also tried electric (still leaves uncomfortable stubble), and neat (does not work welln my coarse hair)r).  Now a couple of my female friends want me to come with them when they get their legs waxed (most likly just to watch me in pain).  Have any of you males with course leg hair tried this method?  Is it worth the temporary pain I’m told it inflicts?  How long does it last? Most importanly, how long till the red blotches go away and my legs look cool again  ? —                   __o       o                 _ <_      <       swim  +   bike  +   run  =   a good nights sleep

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   Now that spring is slowly arriving and we have positive temperatures here in Toronto, it is time to get rid of all that hair on the legs that I have lazily let accumulate over the winter. For the last three years I have mainly used a regular blade razor in the bath tub, but have also tried electric (still leaves uncomfortable stubble), and neat (does not work welln my coarse hair)r).  Now a couple of my female friends want me to come with them when they get their legs waxed (most likly just to watch me in pain).  Have any of you males with course leg hair tried this method?  Is it worth the temporary pain I’m told it inflicts?  How long does it last? Most importanly, how long till the red blotches go away and my legs look cool again  ? —

Don’t do it man! It is a Jedi mind trick. Stick to the razors. I you want to inflict pain on yourself for no reason try something else, like piercing a body part(nipples,lip,tongue,etc.).They are just trying to get you to turn to the dark side of the force!(yoda mode off.) T.J. Fry T.J. Fry                  : "It takes a big man to cry, but Clemson University        : that man".-DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handy Men’s varsity swimming    :

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