Question:

did you consider the timex ironman triathlon with 100 splits? it’s about $45, i think… I have one and it is complete overkill and why some of are talking about the old Casio.  This is a prime case for some of us that more is not better.

i agree, but i was responding to the part where he said that he bought it only for the 60 splits. so, i figured 100 splits is better. maybe not.. anyway, that’s why i suggested the timex. i’ve had one for a couple of years. that’s my only watch. i use it for stuff other than running too. while hiking or playing indoor group games, etc… i still have my race splits from november 2001 stored on it. i’ve never used the memo or the timer feature. i use the 5 alarms once in a while. but i do see your point about the overkill. i don’t know anything about the casio. jobs

Response:

I have one and it is complete overkill and why some of are talking about the old Casio.  This is a prime case for some of us that more is not better. i agree, but i was responding to the part where he said that he bought it only for the 60 splits. so, i figured 100 splits is better. maybe not..

It’s funny you should mention the 100 splits. That was one of the reasons I originally bought it. My dementia laden mind said hey, you run 100 mile races, let’s get buy watch and plug in some times. Great logic if your doing those mindless races on a track(which I don’t) but when you run on trails, nobody mind you, drops markers every mile. At best will get a mile check at an aid station which might be 44.8 and 74.3. The 30 splits is about all you will ever need and appropriate for a well marked marathon where you might want to record gun time, crossing the starting line time, mile 13 and 13.1, 26 and 26.2.  Of course you can use the splits to record 30 different days. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

It’s funny you should mention the 100 splits. That was one of the reasons I originally bought it.

same here. i had a choice between the 50-lap and the 100-lap timex. i went for the 100. jobs

Response:

The 30 splits is about all you will ever need and appropriate for a well marked marathon where you might want to record gun time, crossing the starting line time, mile 13 and 13.1, 26 and 26.2.  Of course you can use the splits to record 30 different days.

Americans are living in a small world. A Marathon is exactly 42195 standard units. And normally there is a marker every 1000 units. 1 unit = 1 meter. So you would need 43 splits for a marathon

Response:

Just bought the 60-split watch at my local Wal-Mart for $29.93 + sales tax. Wal-Mart has them in blue and black.  I have no illusion about the "pacing" and distance functions; I only bought it for the 60 splits.  The band is rubberized plastic, so I’m sure that will be the weak point on the watch, as it will crack after so much sun and sweat.  When it does, I intend to go velcro.  – KLM

Response:

Just bought the 60-split watch at my local Wal-Mart for $29.93 + sales tax. Wal-Mart has them in blue and black.  I have no illusion about the "pacing" and distance functions; I only bought it for the 60 splits.  The band is rubberized

did you consider the timex ironman triathlon with 100 splits? it’s about $45, i think… jobs

Response:

did you consider the timex ironman triathlon with 100 splits? it’s about $45, i think…

I have one and it is complete overkill and why some of are talking about the old Casio.  This is a prime case for some of us that more is not better. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

Go ahead Douglas.   Boast about your spending power on rec.running. I suppose your yacht is less than $29.93 or $36.58(US) with tax and shipping?  It’s fun to flaunt being filthy rich.

I haven’t bought a yacht.   And if I did, I wouldn’t upset you frugal Yankees by telling you the purchase price. You, on the other hand, spend as much on your wrist adornment as poor Wobbot spends on clothes each month.   Don’t you feel ashamed?   If you were really innovative, you’d turn yourself into a human sundial and send your $36.58 to charity, thus benefiting world hunger and rec.running all in one go.

Response:

If anyone’s interested, www.walmart.com has the battery powered model for $$29.93. Thanks Brian, I just ordered one. I just ordered the STR-200 model locally, but at a much steeper price

Found the manuals on the net. Seems like the STR-101 and the STR-200 / STR-201 are not the same. The STR-200 have lost the multi-colored display, got the solar charged battery, and have a new case design that looks like it is better (easier to press the two large buttons). And then the STR-200 has 5 daily alarms, one of these with snooze function. I noticed that the memory has been improved since I bought my SDB-300W 16+ years ago. Now it automaticly deletes old runs, or the oldest splits in the current run. So no need to delete old runs any more. The whole pacing / distance thing seems to be worthless. you can set it to 100-200 paces/minute including beeps, and if you put in your stridelength, it will multiply beeps/minute with time and stridelength to come up with a distance. So it is just multiplying the time with a user adjustable constant. Oh well, as long as it is a good running watch.

Response:

The whole pacing / distance thing seems to be worthless. you can set it to 100-200 paces/minute including beeps, and if you put in your stridelength, it will multiply beeps/minute with time and stridelength to come up with a distance. So it is just multiplying the time with a user adjustable constant.

I can remember when the beep and belch mode was new feature for watches.  What fun during a race to have a few people all in the same area with watches burping at different intervals and none of them lining up with your pace. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

If anyone’s interested, www.walmart.com has the battery powered model for $$29.93.

Thanks Brian, I just ordered one. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

If anyone’s interested, www.walmart.com has the battery powered model for $$29.93. Thanks Brian, I just ordered one.

Go ahead Douglas.   Boast about your spending power on rec.running.

Response:

If anyone’s interested, www.walmart.com has the battery powered model for $$29.93. Thanks Brian, I just ordered one.

I just ordered the STR-200 model locally, but at a much steeper price

Response:

Papa Doc carefully notes: If anyone’s interested, www.walmart.com has the battery powered model for $$29.93. Thanks Brian, I just ordered one. Go ahead Douglas.   Boast about your spending power on rec.running.

I suppose your yacht is less than $29.93 or $36.58(US) with tax and shipping?  It’s fun to flaunt being filthy rich. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

I can see that Casio has introduced new watches with 60 splits, and if you set your step length, it can also measure distance. They are prices from $40-$70 as far as I can find, and the models are STR-101 / STR-101C (different case) and STR-200 (Europe)/ STR-201 (US) I can find more japanese and German sites with them than US ones. There the prise is from 55-80 Euro. Anybody have any experience with these ?

I can only hope that they work like the old 30 split watch. Mine is getting on to 10 years old and I don’t think it will be with me much longer. These were the best running watches ever made. Just what you needed and nothing that you didn’t. Thanks Povl, you’re giving me hope again. Andy

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I can only hope that they work like the old 30 split watch. Mine is getting on to 10 years old and I don’t think it will be with me much longer. These were the best running watches ever made. Just what you needed and nothing that you didn’t. Thanks Povl, you’re giving me hope again.

Hope fpr me too Povl, and agree with Andy that Casio 30 spilt(sad to say mine died) was the one of the best watches ever made.   — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

I can see that Casio has introduced new watches with 60 splits, and if you set your step length, it can also measure distance. … I can only hope that they work like the old 30 split watch. Mine is getting on to 10 years old and I don’t think it will be with me much longer. These were the best running watches ever made. Just what you needed and nothing that you didn’t. Thanks Povl, you’re giving me hope again.

I have the first model, the 2nd model of this one had some blue color on the wriststrap, and was 100 meters waterproof instead of 50. I had a new battery put in mine less than a year ago, and it has failed me now, and started to behave strange. So I want to replace it. Considers the one that is solar charged (like my Citizen analog watch) so I won’t have to replace the battery, as they are costly here. I still have my HRM, but it also seems to be fading, and soon needs a new battery. I will use the Casio for the runs where I don’t need or want the HRM, or if I want to store multiple sessions (which my Polar Coach won’t).

Response:

Those 30 lappers were great. I had a couple of yellow ones, and a friend of mine had an orange one. I actually have a couple that still work, including the very first one I ever got. When that model disappeared, I bought a couple of it’s replacement, which has 50 laps, and has a indiglo backlight. That was the one issue I had with the older model – that little light bulb that served as a backlight and only lit about 1/3 of the display! — Brian Henry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can only hope that they work like the old 30 split watch. Mine is getting on to 10 years old and I don’t think it will be with me much longer. These were the best running watches ever made. Just what you needed and nothing that you didn’t. Thanks Povl, you’re giving me hope again. Hope fpr me too Povl, and agree with Andy that Casio 30 spilt(sad to say mine died) was the one of the best watches ever made. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

I can see that Casio has introduced new watches with 60 splits, and if you set your step length, it can also measure distance.

Unless you run flat, never get tired and have consistent stride length, you are better off measuring with a divining rod or your car. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

If anyone’s interested, www.walmart.com has the battery powered model for $$29.93. — Brian Henry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can see that Casio has introduced new watches with 60 splits, and if you set your step length, it can also measure distance. They are prices from $40-$70 as far as I can find, and the models are STR-101 / STR-101C (different case) and STR-200 (Europe)/ STR-201 (US) I can find more japanese and German sites with them than US ones. There the prise is from 55-80 Euro. Anybody have any experience with these ?

Response:

I can see that Casio has introduced new watches with 60 splits, and if you set your step length, it can also measure distance. Unless you run flat, never get tired and have consistent stride length, you are better off measuring with a divining rod or your car.

Sure, but you can use it to compute your cadence.

Response:

I can see that Casio has introduced new watches with 60 splits, and if you set your step length, it can also measure distance. They are prices from $40-$70 as far as I can find, and the models are STR-101 / STR-101C (different case) and STR-200 (Europe)/ STR-201 (US) I can find more japanese and German sites with them than US ones. There the prise is from 55-80 Euro. Anybody have any experience with these ?

Response:

Have always used a Timex Ironman (I’ve gone through two over the last 12 years or so), and I have always sort of wished it had more than the 8 splits it has. Otherwise, it’s a pretty good item, and I can even read it in the dark if I have to.  This Casio timekeeper with the 60 splits:  Where is it for sale in the U.S. — I’d like to see one before buying one — I like the dorky but very functional velcro band on my Timex Ironman, and won’t give it up for another watch unless it is equally as comfortable and adjustable, etc.

Response:

Have always used a Timex Ironman (I’ve gone through two over the last 12 years or so), and I have always sort of wished it had more than the 8 splits it has. Otherwise, it’s a pretty good item, and I can even read it in the dark if I have to.  This Casio timekeeper with the 60 splits:  Where is it for sale in the U.S. — I’d like to see one before buying one — I like the dorky but very functional velcro band on my Timex Ironman, and won’t give it up for another watch unless it is equally as comfortable and adjustable, etc.

The Timex is not available in Denmark. But the casio seems to be available in Europe. Look at www.casio.com – You can buy it there if yiu are in the USA. The local shops may also get it. It is made of plastic. I have a 15+ year old model with 30 splits that seems to need new batteries again, so I consider the solar charged STR-200.

Response:

Question:

There are also the people who cannot read a pace clock, and will consistently screw up the interval for anything other than starting on the up or on the down. It becomes audience participation when the five

But, I, like, came here to *swim*, not to do *math*! I get annoyed when someone jumps into your lane without announcing their presence first. and it’s not like I don’t stop and look up to give people a chance when they’re standing at the end of my lane. Yesterday, I stopped and looked up at a woman, but she was acting like she was going to jump into the water aerobics class, so I kept swimming. Next thing I know she’s swimming at me head-on. Then every time we passed I almost got kicked in the nads as she reached way over the line with her sidestroke, breaststroke, and elementary backstroke kicks. I managed to control my ire, but when people act like complete rude jackasses it perhpas isn’t surprising that there’s lane rage. This, of course, is the origin of road rage as well: people drive completely selfishly, without giving a second thought to common courtesy. -Harold

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GRACE OF GOD’ERS – Swimmer whom believe by the grace of God/the gods

that Snip I guess I’m fortunate I’ve never come across many of those. The really good people I’ve come across are confident, but know in their heart that Jenny Thompson would still kick their ass under any and all circumstances and it keeps them from getting too cocky..

GOG’ers usually are decent in the pool but otherwise are all body and some substance as far as swimming goes.  True swimmers are there to train or just swim, GOG’ers let their ego be known in both volume of their swagger, pre-warmup routine (more like a slow mo Fashion Channel swimwear photo/video shoot than stretching) and clothing.  They usually are never there using the gym equipment out of fear the musclehead would use them to wipe the equipment down. Then there are the whiners, who pop up in every age and ability level. Water is too hot. Water is too cold. Interval is waaaay tooo hard. (never mind they go faster than that in warm-up) I don’t want to do IM. I don’t want to do backstroke. I hate 500s. I hate 50s. It’s too dark in here and I keep hitting my feet on backstroke turns. My super saccharine on my lane just so I don’t get sucked into the negativity. I’m sure the resulting cheerleader-like positive affirmations drove my lane-mates nuts in return.

What is worse is hearing the whiners still whining while they soak in the hot tub!  "Why don’t they heat the pool more!"  "What makes then think I can take 85degree water… my arthitis will act up!", etc.  Most are older than Moses and when they are not whining clog swim lanes while jogging in them.

Response:

This was incorrectly quoted. This is actually Brian quote about a message I sent earlier. -Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And, gee, you’re training for a situation where you may be passing someone or being passed every 5 seconds or so, often blindly by the braille method, sometimes near a buoy. Passing in open water is a skill I mastered long ago. I don’t need to be doing it a crapzillion times during practice. What I am working on right now is getting the speed and endurance back to where it should be, so lots of intervals where the idea is short  rests during the set. I need to know how to set the intervals so I’m getting the right rest. Set them with the assumption of no passing, and I’m doing touch and gos at the wall. Set them on the assumption of X number of passes per 200 or 300, and if I don’t pass that much, I’m getting too much rest on other reps. But I’m lucky that I can practice somewhere I get my own lane, and if it does look like someone wants to share lanes, a bit of wide-sweeping butterfly tends to scare away the timid.

Response:

"Andrew F. Halperin" wrote…

| This was incorrectly quoted. This is actually Brian quote about | a message I sent earlier. | How would you know, you’ve KF’ed him? stacy hills reston, va

Response:

I see now why I do all my swimming in the bay. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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I live in an actual city and I don’t have to pass someone every minute on the bike or run either. That’s because they’re all following you, admiring your legs.

hey, you got that part right. training site selection is important.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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GRACE OF GOD’ERS – Swimmer whom believe by the grace of God/the gods that given their bodies and swimming abilities they should have the lane all to themselves.  They usually are dressed in whatever the latest swim catalog has to offer and carry enough equipment that they could open their own catalog.  When talking to other Gracers they extol the fact that they came 47th in the last Olympic Team swim trials (who knows if that is true) and what modeling agency/photographer has asked them to model for them that week.  Usually shallower than the kiddie wading pool.

I guess I’m fortunate I’ve never come across many of those. The really good people I’ve come across are confident, but know in their heart that Jenny Thompson would still kick their ass under any and all circumstances and it keeps them from getting too cocky.. Then there are the whiners, who pop up in every age and ability level. Water is too hot. Water is too cold. Interval is waaaay tooo hard. (never mind they go faster than that in warm-up) I don’t want to do IM. I don’t want to do backstroke. I hate 500s. I hate 50s. It’s too dark in here and I keep hitting my feet on backstroke turns. My super saccharine on my lane just so I don’t get sucked into the negativity. I’m sure the resulting cheerleader-like positive affirmations drove my lane-mates nuts in return. There are also the people who cannot read a pace clock, and will consistently screw up the interval for anything other than starting on the up or on the down. It becomes audience participation when the five other people in the lane are constantly in unison yelling "Kelly go now!" for the entire set.

Response:

I have to say that this thread is pretty funny the way I have to read it. A couple of years ago I added an individual to one of my kill files and thus, I’m missing some of the replies. Oh well -Andrew Boulder, CO

Response:

Ya missed a few… GRACE OF GOD’ERS – Swimmer whom believe by the grace of God/the gods that given their bodies and swimming abilities they should have the lane all to themselves.  They usually are dressed in whatever the latest swim catalog has to offer and carry enough equipment that they could open their own catalog.  When talking to other Gracers they extol the fact that they came 47th in the last Olympic Team swim trials (who knows if that is true) and what modeling agency/photographer has asked them to model for them that week.  Usually shallower than the kiddie wading pool. FLOWERHEADS – (note there are actually 2 types, good and bad.  The good usually can smoke your ass in swimming are follow normal rules.  It’s the bad that is discribed here)  Usually seen in a large bathing costumes made of either wool, cotton, Quiana or other vapor releasing synthetic polluting fiber and flowered latex caps crumbing from age.  Leave an oily slick with latex powder in lanes.  Ususally swims with head out of water (sometimes a cigarette with 2"-3" ash tail hanging from mouth).  Sheer size prevent swimming in the same lane with them more to follow when med wears off Gabe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here ya go.. Lane Rage By M S. There’s this funny little thing that happens in the pool. No matter where you swim, no matter what your level. You’re either the victim or the cause of it, and it’s always unpleasant. What am I talking about –  Lane rage in the pool. I don’t know if it is more pronounced in Masters’ workouts or in an unorganized lane, but I know it happens in both places. It can affect you no matter what your level of swimming experience. I’m talking about lane rage, the act of one swimmer becoming hostile towards another swimmer in the pool. When you first learn to do laps in the pool you’re probably the cause of lane rage more than the one becoming enraged, but you really don’t know you’re the cause. Later on, as you get better, but are still swimming solo, you eventually get to swim with someone slower than you.  Suddenly you feel badly about that fast guy in the pool so long ago whom you didn’t know enough to let go by. When your lane rage gets bad enough, or when you really want to learn to swim better, you go to Masters’. That’s when the fun starts. A whole new class of lane rage surfaces at Masters’, but at least it’s free of kids, float toys, aerobics, and water runners. I’m a middle-of-the-pack triathlete and an average swimmer. Where I swim Masters’ there are 5 lanes, grouped according to ability. I never get farther than lane 3 at my peak, and spend most of the time in lane 2. I spent years in lane 1. I’ve seen and felt all sorts of lane rage. Caused some of it too. The causes of lane rage are many and varied, here’s an attempt to quickly list them. You will no doubt find many of them familiar: the lane leader can’t count, or is too blind to see the clock. Someone too slow to lead chooses to. That same someone throws you so far off the interval you can’t catch back up. The leader decides to bail on leading in the middle of a 200 or 300, but you weren’t counting because you weren’t leading, though suddenly you are. Someone insists on tapping your feet but insists he/she doesn’t want to move ahead. Someone else doesn’t veer off to the left side of the wall at the turnaround and you swim straight into them as they flip turn. Someone else decides to hang on the wall in the middle of a set but not to the side and you slam right into him or her during your turn. Someone way too fast is leading your lane. Someone sets a way too fast pace which you try to follow, gets tired and then you have to lead. The coach set the clock wrong. There is no clock. The clock is broken. Everyone is wearing Seal Masks. (Oops sorry, wrong article) That guy uses his pull buoy for the whole practice (so why does that bother you?). You keep getting arms caught with that person swimming too close to center. Someone had too much garlic for dinner the night before (funny, that is about the only smell stronger than chlorine). Someone is so slow you’re lapping him or her on a 200 and missing your interval following them. Someone took YOUR pull buoy. Two girls have the same swimsuit. Each lane has it’s own personality as well. We like to call lane 1, which is the newcomers’ lane, the "lane of love". Everyone is so nice in lane 1, the competition is nearly nonexistent as many of the swimmers concentrate on simply not drowning. Everyone is happy in lane 1. Anyone can lead. It doesn’t make much difference. Several of the people in lane 1 will never get beyond lane 1, and they couldn’t care less. Lane 1 is nice. Lane 2 is different. Lane 2 is somewhat snotty. Lane 2 swimmers start to have an attitude; after all, they’ve grown beyond lane 1. Leading becomes important for the first time in lane 2. Making intervals becomes important, and missing them grounds for being demoted back to lane 1, or at least the back of lane 2. People still talk to each other in between intervals in lane 2, and are generally nice, just don’t screw up the counting.  Lane 3, now they’re getting fast in lane 3. The intervals are those done by people who can move, and they’re deadly serious about them. No chitchat in lane 3. No joking in lane 3. No time. Gotta swim. Go swim. We swim. I try to hang in the back of lane 3 sometimes, but I feel like I’m being cautiously watched, like they know I don’t belong there, or are sizing me up for membership in their lane, or not. When I get too scared (or winded) I move back over to lane 2. I don’t know what the lane 4 swimmers are like in the water; I’ve never been over there. That lane scares me to death. Those folks can kick faster than I can swim. I kind of hope I never get over to lane 4. Then there is lane 5. We have several pro triathletes, some Olympians, and some other sick fast people in lane 5. I never get to talk to them, even on the deck, because they’re in the water before I even arrive at the pool and still in the water when I’m done. Hmm.maybe that has something to do with their speed. The following types of people show up at Masters’. We’ve given some of them names and definitions: I have to admit; I’ve been each of these at times. Lane switchers: swimmers who swim in a given lane based on some secret criteria that can only be deciphered by the swimmer. One day they’re in lane 1, the next day they’re leading lane 3. Lane ragers: They were the impetus for this article. They’re always angry at you for something you did in the pool. They’ll rarely tell you what it was. Bad counters: Leaders who don’t care about what they’re leading, or don’t count laps/distances and don’t really care that you care about it. Fake leaders: They jump in front of the real leader in the middle of a set just so they can tell someone they led part of the practice, but bail just as they throw you totally off your counting and timing. Sandbaggers: Those people who you KNOW can swim fast but they’ve decided to join you in your lane today just so they can play with your feet and make you nervous, but don’t want to pass you when offered. Wannabe coaches: Don’t you love it when someone offers you unsolicited swim advice, yet they’re in the same lane as you? Lane hogs: They’re the ones responsible for you swimming into the ropes as you try to avoid their flailing arms. Lane hogs swim too closely to the black line, and they’re the ones who’s arms you catch and who’s nails scratch your thighs. Bafflers: You don’t want to judge someone by their figure, but sometimes overweight people are SO darned fast! Out of towners: Hmm..is that someone new or someone from out of town? They invariably start out in the wrong lane, and are usually faster than me. Campers: OK, I’ll get dinged locally for this one, but we used to have triathlon camps descend on our practice, suddenly there are 40 additional people in a 5 lane pool, and none of them have seeded themselves in the proper lane. At least we used to get warning about impending campers. All of this aside, I still don’t enjoy swimming. Wonder why? Mike

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Oh, come on!  You live in Ohio.

In a first ring suburb.  The local paths get very crowded on the weekends. I live in an actual city and I don’t have to pass someone every minute on the bike or run either.

That’s because they’re all following you, admiring your legs.

Response:

Post the link! I hate the bobbing joggers that use swim lanes (cause there are 2 people only in that lane and there are 3 in my aquabiddie lane and my hair will get wet) and play dumb when you point to the "swimming only" lane sign.

I live for those encounters.  The other lap swimmers have actually been known to stop me and ask me to come into their lane so I can "deal with" the aqua joggers there. There’s a woman who’s seriously mentally ill who comes to lap swim.  She has screaming outbursts at other swimmers, and at the guards, but the one time she started in on me, I looked her in the eye and told her where to get off.  Now, when I enter the pool, she leaves, and the guards actually thank me for coming to lap swim that day.

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A crowded pool isn’t the same deal anyhow.  You can see them from a far, they don’t come at 40 degree angles across your path, they might even wait and the end and let you turn first.

You apparently haven’t been to our local Y.

Response:

Post the link! I hate the bobbing joggers that use swim lanes (cause there are 2 people only in that lane and there are 3 in my aquabiddie lane and my hair will get wet) and play dumb when you point to the "swimming only" lane sign.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Didn’t I just read a fantastic article in a recent Inside Triathlon about this very subject? It was titled "Lane Rage" I think? Oh thats right, I wrote it! You qualify for a type of enragee I forgot to put in the text. I’ll have to find it tomorrow and upload it. Schwingding I’ve just read the post about lane swimming and swimming in circles in a lane. I always swim up and down the lane on the same side, simply because the chances of my going at exactly the same pace as me are pretty slim. Therefore at some point one of the people sharing the lane will have to pass the other. If you each have one side of the lane, you can each go at your own pace without ‘touching feet’ or going around each other. I can’t see what’s wrong with that. Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it’s right. Paul

Response:

Here ya go.. Lane Rage By M S. There’s this funny little thing that happens in the pool. No matter where you swim, no matter what your level. You’re either the victim or the cause of it, and it’s always unpleasant. What am I talking about –  Lane rage in the pool. I don’t know if it is more pronounced in Masters’ workouts or in an unorganized lane, but I know it happens in both places. It can affect you no matter what your level of swimming experience. I’m talking about lane rage, the act of one swimmer becoming hostile towards another swimmer in the pool. When you first learn to do laps in the pool you’re probably the cause of lane rage more than the one becoming enraged, but you really don’t know you’re the cause. Later on, as you get better, but are still swimming solo, you eventually get to swim with someone slower than you.  Suddenly you feel badly about that fast guy in the pool so long ago whom you didn’t know enough to let go by. When your lane rage gets bad enough, or when you really want to learn to swim better, you go to Masters’. That’s when the fun starts. A whole new class of lane rage surfaces at Masters’, but at least it’s free of kids, float toys, aerobics, and water runners. I’m a middle-of-the-pack triathlete and an average swimmer. Where I swim Masters’ there are 5 lanes, grouped according to ability. I never get farther than lane 3 at my peak, and spend most of the time in lane 2. I spent years in lane 1. I’ve seen and felt all sorts of lane rage. Caused some of it too. The causes of lane rage are many and varied, here’s an attempt to quickly list them. You will no doubt find many of them familiar: the lane leader can’t count, or is too blind to see the clock. Someone too slow to lead chooses to. That same someone throws you so far off the interval you can’t catch back up. The leader decides to bail on leading in the middle of a 200 or 300, but you weren’t counting because you weren’t leading, though suddenly you are. Someone insists on tapping your feet but insists he/she doesn’t want to move ahead. Someone else doesn’t veer off to the left side of the wall at the turnaround and you swim straight into them as they flip turn. Someone else decides to hang on the wall in the middle of a set but not to the side and you slam right into him or her during your turn. Someone way too fast is leading your lane. Someone sets a way too fast pace which you try to follow, gets tired and then you have to lead. The coach set the clock wrong. There is no clock. The clock is broken. Everyone is wearing Seal Masks. (Oops sorry, wrong article) That guy uses his pull buoy for the whole practice (so why does that bother you?). You keep getting arms caught with that person swimming too close to center. Someone had too much garlic for dinner the night before (funny, that is about the only smell stronger than chlorine). Someone is so slow you’re lapping him or her on a 200 and missing your interval following them. Someone took YOUR pull buoy. Two girls have the same swimsuit. Each lane has it’s own personality as well. We like to call lane 1, which is the newcomers’ lane, the "lane of love". Everyone is so nice in lane 1, the competition is nearly nonexistent as many of the swimmers concentrate on simply not drowning. Everyone is happy in lane 1. Anyone can lead. It doesn’t make much difference. Several of the people in lane 1 will never get beyond lane 1, and they couldn’t care less. Lane 1 is nice. Lane 2 is different. Lane 2 is somewhat snotty. Lane 2 swimmers start to have an attitude; after all, they’ve grown beyond lane 1. Leading becomes important for the first time in lane 2. Making intervals becomes important, and missing them grounds for being demoted back to lane 1, or at least the back of lane 2. People still talk to each other in between intervals in lane 2, and are generally nice, just don’t screw up the counting.  Lane 3, now they’re getting fast in lane 3. The intervals are those done by people who can move, and they’re deadly serious about them. No chitchat in lane 3. No joking in lane 3. No time. Gotta swim. Go swim. We swim. I try to hang in the back of lane 3 sometimes, but I feel like I’m being cautiously watched, like they know I don’t belong there, or are sizing me up for membership in their lane, or not. When I get too scared (or winded) I move back over to lane 2. I don’t know what the lane 4 swimmers are like in the water; I’ve never been over there. That lane scares me to death. Those folks can kick faster than I can swim. I kind of hope I never get over to lane 4. Then there is lane 5. We have several pro triathletes, some Olympians, and some other sick fast people in lane 5. I never get to talk to them, even on the deck, because they’re in the water before I even arrive at the pool and still in the water when I’m done. Hmm.maybe that has something to do with their speed. The following types of people show up at Masters’. We’ve given some of them names and definitions: I have to admit; I’ve been each of these at times. Lane switchers: swimmers who swim in a given lane based on some secret criteria that can only be deciphered by the swimmer. One day they’re in lane 1, the next day they’re leading lane 3. Lane ragers: They were the impetus for this article. They’re always angry at you for something you did in the pool. They’ll rarely tell you what it was. Bad counters: Leaders who don’t care about what they’re leading, or don’t count laps/distances and don’t really care that you care about it. Fake leaders: They jump in front of the real leader in the middle of a set just so they can tell someone they led part of the practice, but bail just as they throw you totally off your counting and timing. Sandbaggers: Those people who you KNOW can swim fast but they’ve decided to join you in your lane today just so they can play with your feet and make you nervous, but don’t want to pass you when offered. Wannabe coaches: Don’t you love it when someone offers you unsolicited swim advice, yet they’re in the same lane as you? Lane hogs: They’re the ones responsible for you swimming into the ropes as you try to avoid their flailing arms. Lane hogs swim too closely to the black line, and they’re the ones who’s arms you catch and who’s nails scratch your thighs. Bafflers: You don’t want to judge someone by their figure, but sometimes overweight people are SO darned fast! Out of towners: Hmm..is that someone new or someone from out of town? They invariably start out in the wrong lane, and are usually faster than me. Campers: OK, I’ll get dinged locally for this one, but we used to have triathlon camps descend on our practice, suddenly there are 40 additional people in a 5 lane pool, and none of them have seeded themselves in the proper lane. At least we used to get warning about impending campers. All of this aside, I still don’t enjoy swimming. Wonder why? Mike

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Which isn’t necessarily a benefit for triathletes, who are not training to compete in nicely separated lanes. You might as well practice swimming in a crowd and passing people; you’ll have to do it in competition.

He can get enough practice with that racing.  A crowded pool isn’t the same deal anyhow.  You can see them from a far, they don’t come at 40 degree angles across your path, they might even wait and the end and let you turn first.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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And I don’t often run and cycle (with the exception of races) where I have to pass someone every minute or so. Some of don’t live in the boondocks.

Oh, come on!  You live in Ohio.   I live in an actual city and I don’t have to pass someone every minute on the bike or run either.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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And, gee, you’re training for a situation where you may be passing someone or being passed every 5 seconds or so, often blindly by the braille method, sometimes near a buoy.

Passing in open water is a skill I mastered long ago. I don’t need to be doing it a crapzillion times during practice. What I am working on right now is getting the speed and endurance back to where it should be, so lots of intervals where the idea is short  rests during the set. I need to know how to set the intervals so I’m getting the right rest. Set them with the assumption of no passing, and I’m doing touch and gos at the wall. Set them on the assumption of X number of passes per 200 or 300, and if I don’t pass that much, I’m getting too much rest on other reps. But I’m lucky that I can practice somewhere I get my own lane, and if it does look like someone wants to share lanes, a bit of wide-sweeping butterfly tends to scare away the timid.

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Didn’t I just read a fantastic article in a recent Inside Triathlon about this very subject? It was titled "Lane Rage" I think? Oh thats right, I wrote it! You qualify for a type of enragee I forgot to put in the text. I’ll have to find it tomorrow and upload it. Schwingding

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve just read the post about lane swimming and swimming in circles in a lane. I always swim up and down the lane on the same side, simply because the chances of my going at exactly the same pace as me are pretty slim. Therefore at some point one of the people sharing the lane will have to pass the other. If you each have one side of the lane, you can each go at your own pace without ‘touching feet’ or going around each other. I can’t see what’s wrong with that. Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it’s right. Paul

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I’ve just read the post about lane swimming and swimming in circles in a lane. I always swim up and down the lane on the same side, simply because the chances of my going at exactly the same pace as me are pretty slim. Therefore at some point one of the people sharing the lane will have to pass the other. If you each have one side of the lane, you can each go at your own pace without ‘touching feet’ or going around each other. I can’t see what’s wrong with that. Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it’s right. Paul

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I’ve just read the post about lane swimming and swimming in circles in a lane. I always swim up and down the lane on the same side, simply because the chances of my going at exactly the same pace as me are pretty slim. Therefore at some point one of the people sharing the lane will have to pass the other. If you each have one side of the lane, you can each go at your own pace without ‘touching feet’ or going around each other. I can’t see what’s wrong with that. Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it’s right. Paul

Paul, The method you describe can work – provided there is no more than 2 swimmers.  Unfortunately, in many locations there is more demand for pool lanes than 2 people per lane so the "circle" method is the only choice. I’m fortunate (as apparently so are you) that the facility where I swim has low demand.  I often use the method you describe (after discussing it with my lane-mate) to avoid having to continuously pass slower swimmers. We should both recognize this as a luxury most don’t enjoy. John

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The method you describe can work – provided there is no more than 2 swimmers.  Unfortunately, in many locations there is more demand for pool lanes than 2 people per lane so the "circle" method is the only choice. I’m fortunate (as apparently so are you) that the facility where I swim has low demand.  I often use the method you describe (after discussing it with my lane-mate) to avoid having to continuously pass slower swimmers.

Which isn’t necessarily a benefit for triathletes, who are not training to compete in nicely separated lanes. You might as well practice swimming in a crowd and passing people; you’ll have to do it in competition. We should both recognize this as a luxury most don’t enjoy.

Or a liability.  Making training easier makes racing harder.

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I’ve just read the post about lane swimming and swimming in circles in a lane. I always swim up and down the lane on the same side, simply because the chances of my going at exactly the same pace as me are pretty slim. Therefore at some point one of the people sharing the lane will have to pass the other. If you each have one side of the lane, you can each go at your own pace without ‘touching feet’ or going around each other. I can’t see what’s wrong with that. Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it’s right.

No, it’s right because it works, and the way you’re describing works under one condition: when there are less than two people in a lane. Think of it as driving in whichever lane you want.  It works fine when there are no other people driving on the road… not so well when there’s traffic. And BTW, so what if people pass you/you pass them, when you run or cycle doesn’t this happen too? Cheers, Walter R. Strapps

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I assume you mean two OR less And based on the differential of speed between the two swimmers you could be passing that person every 3 lap or so. That gets old when you when your swimming 4-5k. In other words, I could be passing someone every 45 seconds or so, sometimes near a wall. And I don’t often run and cycle (with the exception of races) where I have to pass someone every minute or so. No flames intended. Just that each method of swimming has it’s place. Talk it over and make changes that suit the situation. -Andrew Boulder, CO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it’s right because it works, and the way you’re describing works under one condition: when there are less than two people in a lane. Think of it as driving in whichever lane you want.  It works fine when there are no other people driving on the road… not so well when there’s traffic. And BTW, so what if people pass you/you pass them, when you run or cycle doesn’t this happen too? Cheers, Walter R. Strapps

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I assume you mean two OR less And based on the differential of speed between the two swimmers you could be passing that person every 3 lap or so.

And your point is?  It provides good feedback if you note where in each pair of laps you pass them. Are you gaining or losing ground with each pass?   That gets old when you when your swimming 4-5k.

Actually, it makes it less boring, and the workout goes by faster. In other words, I could be passing someone every 45 seconds or so, sometimes near a wall.

And, gee, you’re training for a situation where you may be passing someone or being passed every 5 seconds or so, often blindly by the braille method, sometimes near a buoy. And I don’t often run and cycle (with the exception of races) where I have to pass someone every minute or so.

Some of don’t live in the boondocks.

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The method you describe can work – provided there is no more than 2 swimmers.  Unfortunately, in many locations there is more demand for pool lanes than 2 people per lane so the "circle" method is the only choice. I’m fortunate (as apparently so are you) that the facility where I swim has low demand.  I often use the method you describe (after discussing it with my lane-mate) to avoid having to continuously pass slower swimmers. Which isn’t necessarily a benefit for triathletes, who are not training to compete in nicely separated lanes. You might as well practice swimming in a crowd and passing people; you’ll have to do it in competition.

This is a pool that I use during the winter or in bad weather.  The rest of the time I swim in open water whenever possible.  You’re right, it’s necessary to get used to rough water (and people) but doing form work in a pool is equally important IMHO.  Variety is the spice of life eh?

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Question:

It’s been so long, I don’t even remember if this posting business till works…. John Laninga UTBKA TriZipp (thats Used To be Known As) Happy New Year

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, those good old 90’s.  I saw the post about old time lurkers and it made me think that time does go by. I guess newsgroup devotees come and go but I’d just like to say hi to the old-timers (1995 or so…): Brian Sullivan, Rolf Arands, Lee Crumbaugh, Cathy Corning, Tri-Dork, Ruth (who still pops up with a rare sophistication amidst the FS ads now and again) the always interesting Rick Denney, Sam Bean (You will do it Sam!), Phil Maffetone (yes, that P.M.), Dan E. of course, and where oh where has Tricia Richter gone? For all those folks and many more, I guess we now know how that DeBoom/DeBlah thread turned out! Best, Mark

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Ken wrote, Evolution has changed that to a forum that no matter what you say someone lurking will likely give you a toasting. I’ve noticed this as well.  It’s almost as if it has become a place where some wierd form of a back and forth quasi-intellectual

I’m not sure I’d call it quasi-intellectual. Most of it’s inane and pointless. And repetitive. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, ‘99, ‘00 ‘01 Great Floridian

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Oh, those good old 90’s.  I saw the post about old time lurkers and it made me think that time does go by. I guess newsgroup devotees come and go but I’d just like to say hi to the old-timers (1995 or so…): Brian Sullivan, Rolf Arands, Lee Crumbaugh, Cathy Corning, Tri-Dork, Ruth (who still pops up with a rare sophistication amidst the FS ads now and again) the always interesting Rick Denney, Sam Bean (You will do it Sam!), Phil Maffetone (yes, that P.M.), Dan E. of course, and where oh where has Tricia Richter gone? For all those folks and many more, I guess we now know how that DeBoom/DeBlah thread turned out! Best, Mark

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Maybe the interest has waned/gone because just about everything has been discussed (and discussed again) and if you are a vet of many, many tris and don’t need "newbie tips" then, let’s face it, triathlon discussion is not a factor. RST just becomes a board of bored posts. Nothing to get you to click on it and see what’s up. Of course in the winter, or maybe always now, it is just countless ads. If I want tri stuff, I’ll go to Slowtwitch.

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Plenty of us are still here. We just don’t see the point in it much more – too many people just waiting to snipe at you for any old thing you should say. Every now and then I think I can add something that hasn’t been added already, and take a chance. Other than that, just lurking these days. Old Timer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, those good old 90’s.  I saw the post about old time lurkers and it made me think that time does go by. I guess newsgroup devotees come and go but I’d just like to say hi to the old-timers (1995 or so…): Brian Sullivan, Rolf Arands, Lee Crumbaugh, Cathy Corning, Tri-Dork, Ruth (who still pops up with a rare sophistication amidst the FS ads now and again) the always interesting Rick Denney, Sam Bean (You will do it Sam!), Phil Maffetone (yes, that P.M.), Dan E. of course, and where oh where has Tricia Richter gone? For all those folks and many more, I guess we now know how that DeBoom/DeBlah thread turned out! Best, Mark

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I have to add Mike Schwing to the old folks list…..a good guy who once sold me an absolutely pristine HED Jet for 100 bucks…before the days of the constant FS header. Mark

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Back in the early 90’s there were far fewer sources of good information. This forum was a sharing of information on lessons learned at that time with very few snipers. It was a time when even the Pro’s stopped by to share. Evolution has changed that to a forum that no matter what you say someone lurking will likely give you a toasting. I stop by every few days with some comments.   Attitude is catching and I have found that even I do a little baiting or toss a snide remark at one of my favorite snipers.   I am trying to be a nice guy again in hopes that evolution will take this forum full circle. Seasons Greetings all,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, those good old 90’s.  I saw the post about old time lurkers and it made me think that time does go by. I guess newsgroup devotees come and go but I’d just like to say hi to the old-timers (1995 or so…): Brian Sullivan, Rolf Arands, Lee Crumbaugh, Cathy Corning, Tri-Dork, Ruth (who still pops up with a rare sophistication amidst the FS ads now and again) the always interesting Rick Denney, Sam Bean (You will do it Sam!), Phil Maffetone (yes, that P.M.), Dan E. of course, and where oh where has Tricia Richter gone? For all those folks and many more, I guess we now know how that DeBoom/DeBlah thread turned out! Best, Mark

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Ken wrote,  Evolution has changed that to a forum that no matter what you say someone lurking will likely give you a toasting.

I’ve noticed this as well.  It’s almost as if it has become a place where some wierd form of a back and forth quasi-intellectual contest has become the norm. "Look! I can make an argument over nothing…see if you can keep up." Perhaps we should give it a go again… Mark

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Ah shucks, thanks Mark. I think many people fled RST in favor of the TRI-DRS. TRI-DRS has somewhat of the flavor of the old time RST, though of course it’s really not quite the same. But what TRI-DRS doesn’t have is the incessant advertising and the prolific soap-boxing that sadly have overcome RST. I’m still lurking here. Cathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oh, those good old 90’s.  I saw the post about old time lurkers and it made me think that time does go by. I guess newsgroup devotees come and go but I’d just like to say hi to the old-timers (1995 or so…): Brian Sullivan, Rolf Arands, Lee Crumbaugh, Cathy Corning, Tri-Dork, Ruth (who still pops up with a rare sophistication amidst the FS ads now and again) the always interesting Rick Denney, Sam Bean (You will do it Sam!), Phil Maffetone (yes, that P.M.), Dan E. of course, and where oh where has Tricia Richter gone? For all those folks and many more, I guess we now know how that DeBoom/DeBlah thread turned out! Best, Mark

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Question:

If someone attacks WW, I’ll be the first to stand to defend it.  Not that I think it’s perfect, but it’s sure the best thing going.  It makes sense, is sustainable and works! Unfortunately, I often find myself going on and on about the program when no one else really cares.  I’m not trying to imply that was what was going on with you, but just that it’s a challenge I face. Someone will say, "Do you want some fries?"  And I’ll say, "No, thanks, I have my lunch in the microwave."  And the reply will be, "Oh, sorry" – as if they shouldn’t have tempted me. Then, I pull out my soapbox and start lecturing them on how I *could* eat fries, it’s just that I prefer not to.  I don’t care for them that much, that’s all.   I try to keep this stuff to a minimum, but I want to make sure they understand this is simply how I’m choosing to implement the program. Best, Diane asdww FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, Diane, I felt at a time during that conversation that I was getting on the soap-box, as you so well put it. It came to the point where I had to tell her, and people listening (’cause there were many): "Look, I might sound like I’m in a cult, but believe me, I didn’t enter religion and I’m not trying to recruit anybody!" Did Joanne or anyone else believe me? I don’t know. I became quite vehement about it at one point, I believe. But that’s it, isnt’ it? I believe… Because it works, damn it! — Isabelle Montr

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The July 2000 issue of Runner’s World has a great little write-up on page 109 about Kathleen Hughes. Kathleen is in my age group so I have had the pleasure of meeting her several times. She’s not only a great triathlete, but a tremendously nice person. It was really good to see one of our own triathletes featured in Runner’s World. Cathy

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cathy, thanks for posting this—now i’ve got to run & find a copy.  i second everything you said about kathleen.  she’s a really fine person! peggy mcd-c

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Question:

Hello Group. I’m one of the many lurkers. I am moving from Spokane, WA to Ventura, CA and am looking for a Tri-group to work out with. Does any one have any contacts? Also, any one have a contact (or URL) that may know of the various events in ad around Ventura? Travel is pretty much out with three children. Thanks, Marc

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there is one club i know of in ventura, and its Rincon Racing.  there are several of cycling and triathlon clubs in santa barbara county too:  santa barbara city tri team, UCSB tri team, and eschellon road club.  i think there are more.   hope this helps scott, UCSB triathlon

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Question:

Interesting that the guy’s name is named after an anti-runway air to surface bomb.  Guess a french researcher of the same name must have invented it. — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science Professional Fitness and Lifestyle Consultant – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bienvenue sur le site du Triathlon de Toulon http://perso.wanadoo.fr/triathlon.toulon/ Toute visite et critiique la bien venue

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Bienvenue sur le site du Triathlon de Toulon http://perso.wanadoo.fr/triathlon.toulon/ Toute visite et critiique la bien venue

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Question:

I got the form for IME this morning. I did it last year and loved it. This year I’m a little short of money but feel like I "should" do it to improve my time. I don’t know wether to raid the piggy bank and send off the (high) entry fee or forget it and wake in a cold sweat of regret at home 07:00 on the day of the race. What do I do? Phil (indecisive) Squire

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I got the form for IME this morning. I did it last year and loved it. This year I’m a little short of money but feel like I "should" do it to improve my time. I don’t know wether to raid the piggy bank and send off the (high) entry fee or forget it and wake in a cold sweat of regret at home 07:00 on the day of the race. What do I do? Phil (indecisive) Squire

For what it’s worth, If you really WANT to do IME, then I think you should go for it.  The money will soon be forgotten but the experience will be with you forever. (As I’m sure last years will be) But,  If you only feel like you SHOULD do it, then I would probably skip it. Life is too short and we should spend our time doing the things we WANT to do. Just my $0.02. Jeff (tryin’ to tri) Taylor remove .xxx from email to respond

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Phil,   "…you only go around once…." Brock (I’d go for it) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the form for IME this morning. I did it last year and loved it. This year I’m a little short of money but feel like I "should" do it to improve my time. I don’t know wether to raid the piggy bank and send off the (high) entry fee or forget it and wake in a cold sweat of regret at home 07:00 on the day of the race. What do I do? Phil (indecisive) Squire

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Phil,  Seriously, only "you" can answer that question. All you can do is weigh the pro’s and con’s (make a list) and see which one comes out on top. If is were me, I don’t think "improving my time" would be on top of the "pro" column. It would be on there, but somewhere down the list.  If things are financially tight, there’s always next year.  Sounds a little contrary to my previous post, huh…well….sorry. I would venture to say almost everyone on RST has faced the same type of choice at one time or another. I know I have…  Good luck with whatever you choose to do…. Brock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the form for IME this morning. I did it last year and loved it. This year I’m a little short of money but feel like I "should" do it to improve my time. I don’t know wether to raid the piggy bank and send off the (high) entry fee or forget it and wake in a cold sweat of regret at home 07:00 on the day of the race. What do I do? Phil (indecisive) Squire

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I live by the "50 year’s old rule."  I think ahead until I’m 50 (you know, when I have a home, family, mortgage, inlaws, and all those other things that occupy your time and money) and ask myself if I’d regret not doing something while I had the chance or if it really wouldn’t be a big deal.  Then the decision is easy. No regrets, Scottack

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Well, Phil, experiences stay with you for a lifetime – money comes and goes. But you really need to consider what you would do with that money otherwise. Does it mean that you’ll have to wait another year to get a new car or does it mean that you’ll have to go without heat next winter?   The real value of something is determined by what you sacrifice to have it.  Money is just a convenient trading mechanisim and not the true essence of economics. Good luck, Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the form for IME this morning. I did it last year and loved it. This year I’m a little short of money but feel like I "should" do it to improve my time. I don’t know wether to raid the piggy bank and send off the (high) entry fee or forget it and wake in a cold sweat of regret at home 07:00 on the day of the race. What do I do? Phil (indecisive) Squire

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I live by the "50 year’s old rule."  I think ahead until I’m 50 (you know, when I have a home, family, mortgage, inlaws, and all those other things that occupy your time and money) and ask myself if I’d regret not doing something while I had the chance or if it really wouldn’t be a big deal.  Then the decision is easy. No regrets, Scottack

Hmmmmm. I live by the "50 year old rule" because I am 50. And right now we’re just about to become DINKs again – with a career’s worth of salary levels. I was able to do IMC last for exactly the opposite reasons you cited.  Finally got one kid OUTof school. Just 3 more tuition payments, our daughter’s wedding, and we’re home free. <g Mike "You ain’t dead at 50, whippersnapper" Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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In article s.net I was able to do IMC last for exactly the opposite reasons you cited.  Finally got one kid OUTof school. Just 3 more tuition payments, our daughter’s wedding, and we’re home free. <g

Oh no you’re not!  Then I worried about their getting into their choice of grad schools, then the appointments to U’s, then the weddings, then their tenures, then their kids, then it also starts over.   And through it all I very selfishly went and did my thing, even missing a graduation here and there.  There is still time-manoevering to be done. When they visit I always seem to have forgotten something at the store around noon; I return reeking of eau de chlorine.  When they plan to take the kids somewhere 20 or so miles from here, I say Good idea! Meet you there in an hour, and I go on two wheels.  I’ve been accused by them of giving very erroneous impressions to the kids.  They think that young and middling people hang around the house and yard a lot, but when you get reeeeeealy old you spend a bundle on toys and go biking all the time. Some of you may remember when they came on RST to chew me out in public because I referred to them as couch potatoes in an article about me in Triathlete.  They’re probably lurking here right now.  You guys with 5 year olds can’t imagine what it might be like someday, having your kids look over your shoulder (with a frown). I may need a back-up again, Mosi. P.S. I do have one son (the jock) who is a very skilled and competitive table tennis player. He just organized a club at the U of Ga, for which he is faculty advisor. Ruth Kazez

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Question:

on the bike course, whenever you open up a energy bar or tear into a gel, don’t just toss the garbage on the ground. My solution is to simply tuck it half way under my speedo waist band, and save it untill i reach the next aid station. Aid stations are only 10 miles apart, so it’s not like i build a whole collection of trash back there, rather just one wraper or gel packet. You don’t even notice it while riding, and i doubt it weighs down the rider or increases aero dynamic drag. Kris

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While the simple fact of the matter is "just don’t"..my wife was rather embarrassed when I came home with all of the trash from all my GUs in the back of my pocket..she sort of laughed..I also put them into my gloves, which id declined to have worn on the ride..they mad a handy storage for those GUs..

Taking the whole thing one step further, I took all my rubbish back to the UK with me! The bottom of my bike bag was completely disgusting when I got back a week later. Have you noticed that mould will grow just about anywhere, but not on old Squeezie wrappers? The litter was a real eyesore, I went out of my way to thank the race helpers I saw with bin-bags picking up the discarded wrappers, bottles, banana skins etc. However this can’t be expected anywhere except at the aid stations (and even then I bet the majority of people take it completely for granted). Perhaps if there was a sign up before each aid station "Aid station/litter dump 100metres ahead"?

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However, the week after the race, I personally go over the bike and run course and pic up all the cups, gel packets, wrappers etc.. that the volunteers may have missed. Kris Rushing

Wow!  The least I can say is, "thank you!"  Hopefully racers will be less "litersome" in the future. — Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

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I agree with you, the vineman course is extremly poluted with triathlete garbage. I live here in Santa Rosa, actually right on the Vineman course, and have just completed the Full Vineman for the second time. The volunteers do everything they can to clean up…and do get most of it. However, the week after the race, I personally go over the bike and run course and pic up all the cups, gel packets, wrappers etc.. that the volunteers may have missed. Kris Rushing

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great Idea! I think most triathletes, if made aware of the problem, would try to be considerate about their littering.  Pre race meeting or in the race packet/rules would be an excellent way of increasing awareness. JB Here’s an idea. Just an idea. Would it help if race promoters made competitors aware of this problem before the race, like in the race packet or something like that? I think it’d also help if you told them why- out of courtesy and respect for the locals, and to  better your chances of holding an event the following year.

Yeah, but, gee, why do triathletes have to be "made aware of the problem"?  It’s just sad that folks don’t think about it on their own. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Here’s an idea. Just an idea. Would it help if race promoters made competitors aware of this problem before the race, like in the race packet or something like that? I think it’d also help if you told them why- out of courtesy and respect for the locals, and to  better your chances of holding an event the following year.                                  Kevin                       Kevin Chan

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Great Idea! I think most triathletes, if made aware of the problem, would try to be considerate about their littering.  Pre race meeting or in the race packet/rules would be an excellent way of increasing awareness. JB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s an idea. Just an idea. Would it help if race promoters made competitors aware of this problem before the race, like in the race packet or something like that? I think it’d also help if you told them why- out of courtesy and respect for the locals, and to  better your chances of holding an event the following year.                                  Kevin                       Kevin Chan

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I just did the Vineman/2 and I must say this was by far the most professionally produced Vineman yet. However, the pollution by the triathletes was absolutely disgusting.  There was no danger of getting lost here — just follow the almost 70 miles of debris strewn along the side of the road. Hell, after this race I could care less about the draft packs.  I want to see Tri-Fed require all sanctioned races to instantly DQ all litterbugs! – Tim Iverson

I would have to agree with Tim.  "Disgusting" is the right word for all the wrappers and bottles along the roads that were NOT near aid stations.  :-( However, it is hard enough for the few officials willing to volunteer their time to keep track of the drafting and blocking violations.  So, it will likely be the "honor system" for a long time to come.  I won’t be surprised in the Vineman faces opposition in coming years from the surrounding communities and businesses. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just did the Vineman/2 and I must say this was by far the most professionally produced Vineman yet. However, the pollution by the triathletes was absolutely disgusting.  There was no danger of getting lost here — just follow the almost 70 miles of debris strewn along the side of the road. Hell, after this race I could care less about the draft packs.  I want to see Tri-Fed require all sanctioned races to instantly DQ all litterbugs! – Tim Iverson I would have to agree with Tim.  "Disgusting" is the right word for all the wrappers and bottles along the roads that were NOT near aid stations.  :-( However, it is hard enough for the few officials willing to volunteer their time to keep track of the drafting and blocking violations.  So, it will likely be the "honor system" for a long time to come.  I won’t be surprised in the Vineman faces opposition in coming years from the surrounding communities and businesses.

Unfortunately, I also saw instances of slobby behaviour on the part of our fellow athletes at the Hilton hotel (one of the "official" race hotels). Someone (obviously just come from the race) left his or her Juice Shack cup jammed into a wall-fixture ash tray in the corridor just outside our room.  And in the parking lot there was a paper bag overflowing with trash that included a race program left on the curb.  What the hell is wrong with people??  Don’t they think about the impression that they leave behind?  Then there were the idiots leaving for the race at 5am and honking their horns in the parking lot to summon their companions.  I’m sure the other guests of the hotel really appreciated that. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I would have to agree with Tim.  "Disgusting" is the right word for all the wrappers and bottles along the roads that were NOT near aid stations.  :-( However, it is hard enough for the few officials willing to volunteer their time to keep track of the drafting and blocking violations.  So, it will likely be the "honor system" for a long time to come.  I won’t be surprised in the Vineman faces opposition in coming years from the surrounding communities and businesses.

It is becoming more difficult every year to hold sporting events on the roads in Sonoma County.  I have been involved in promoting 4 large scale cycling events in the last three years (the 1995, 1996, 1997 Wine Country Classics and the 1996 Masters National Championships).  We have had to use three different road race courses in the last three years because neighbors did not want us back.  The primary complaint that we hear is about the difficulty of driving around the course.  Our situation is a bit different because we tend to have partial road closures.  However, the problem still exists. If we upset the neighbors on a course, they can object to the event being held the next year.  If the government agency gets enough complaints, they can close a race down.  I have not heard any specific complaints about the Vineman so please do not construe this as the beginning of a rumour that the Vineman will be stopped – I have heard no such thing.  But it is important that all users of the roads be considerate of the the drivers and the residents so that they won’t resent our being there. Jim Ross President, Sonoma County Cycling Association Kendall-Jackson/Ibis Racing

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Tim, Could not agree more! It is our responsibility to respect the community that allows us to compete on their turf. For myself I remove all "bar" wrappers before the race to eliminate the hassle of opening on the ride/run and to eliminate the litter. Who out there cannot carry a GU wrapper for a limited amount of time until the next aid station? Joseph C. Foster Stanley Government Systems Corporate Accounts 1140 Danville Blvd., Alamo CA 94507 Main: (800) 345-3087 Direct: (510) 552-9647, Voice Mail: (800) 523-2449 Ext. 38506

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I would have to agree with Tim.  "Disgusting" is the right word for all the wrappers and bottles along the roads that were NOT near aid stations.  :-( However, it is hard enough for the few officials willing to volunteer their time to keep track of the drafting and blocking violations.  So, it will likely be the "honor system" for a long time to come.  I won’t be surprised in the Vineman faces opposition in coming years from the surrounding communities and businesses.

While the simple fact of the matter is "just don’t"..my wife was rather embarrassed when I came home with all of the trash from all my GUs in the back of my pocket..she sort of laughed..I also put them into my gloves, which id declined to have worn on the ride..they mad a handy storage for those GUs.. Possibly the greatest answer would be for an official who witnesses an athlete ‘littering with trash’, not the disposal of a water bottle in the transition area, but that the offiial could take their number and then assign them a segment of the bike or run to clean up afterwards. I would definitely support the idea. Can you imagine getting across the finish as the announcer says, "Number 1052, that’s a fine time..now go to mile 5-6 on the bike and clean up the trash!" Gotta believe that the communities involved would just love this..Short races and long races would be clean..should you not clean your section, USAT could fine you an additional $5 for the next year’s entrance fee. Jeff

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I just did the Vineman/2 and I must say this was by far the most professionally produced Vineman yet.  Plenty of excellent and enthusiastic volunteers, lots of food and water on both bike and run, and showers (with soap!) at the finish — that was really nice! However, the pollution by the triathletes was absolutely disgusting.  There was no danger of getting lost here — just follow the almost 70 miles of debris strewn along the side of the road. This kind of behavior hurts our sport in the worst way.  It makes it harder to recruit volunteers; picking up highway litter is usually reserved for petty criminals.  It discourages cities from hosting a triathlon — would *you* want that kind of litter in your home town?  I certainly would not. And, worst of all, it’s completely unnecessary. Last month I did the Envirosports Alcatraz race.  I saw just one (ONE!) power gel packet on the bike course.  And, it was full, so it was probably dropped by accident.  Obviously, at least triathletes from the Bay Area are quite capable of a zero pollution event. Hell, after this race I could care less about the draft packs.  I want to see Tri-Fed require all sanctioned races to instantly DQ all litterbugs! – Tim Iverson

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Question:

The Austin Triathletes are a fun group of triathletes of mixed abilities – Call me for more info – Elinor 326-9082.

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Are there any triathlon clubs or groups in the Austin, Texas, area? I am a runner who would like to get into triathlons, but I need info on bikes, swimming in the Austin area, etc. Anyone know of a group who wouldn’t mind sharing their knowledge with a beginner? Thanks, Kirby Kirby Haltom                      |              Renegade Software                                   |                   512/451-2400 All opinions are my own.          |

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