Question:

Ken, It is great to see you back out racing at a high standard.  I assume that this is another step on your journey back to IMH? All the best, g

Response:

amen to gordo’s welcome back to ken.   this is great recovery news from one of our rst ranks.   i’m really grateful for this report and all it means. peggy

Response:

OK, now I feel better.   This last week end I flew over to Oahu to participate in the Senior Olympic Triathlon, Cycling Time Trial and Road Race.   Yep a rather ambitious week end. Sat Nov 24 was a sprint distance Triathlon.   It would be my first road tri in over two years since getting injured.   It was a good day for me, one of those we get every now and then.   I woke up feeling good,  entered the water feeling good and finished feeling good and won the Gold medal with a 3 minute lead. Sunday morning at 0700 it was Time Trial time.   A  10 mile event over pretty flat ground,  straight out and back.  Setting was Oahu’s North Shore coastal road . Winds were gusty but mostly head on, on the return leg. The Start was traditional 1 minute interval.   When all was done I had the Gold again with a mere 16 second margin. 30 minutes after the last TT finisher came in we started a Bicycle Road Race.  I barely had time to remove my triathlon bar set-up and install road bars.  There was no time for fine adjustments but I eyeballed the derailleur and it worked just well.  I only had to tweak the adjustment once during the race using the downtube adjuster.   Lots of strategy out on the road and much testing each other for the final sprint   1/4 mile from the finish I fainted an attack,  then let up so that others would pass me by.   A couple did and I immediately set another attach in their draft.  It worked perfectly as I approached from behind the slip stream, shot around fast enough to get them off my draft and it was mine to the finish line for another Gold Medal. The toughest competition was from off Island for the TT and road race but it was local competition during the triathlon with several veteran ironman competitors.   A guy from Dallas looked tough and was.  He was second to me in both the TT and Road Race.   Only seconds in each event. Fun way to return to racing after a long lay-up with injuries. Three races in two days, three Gold Medals and most important was the satisfaction of my recovery from two accidents that broke both my collar bones, a total of ten ribs, and two punctured lungs.  It is amazing what a human body is capable of.  A year ago I though that I would never race again.  I had sold my race bike and cycling gear.   For a while I had little interest in exposing myself to the sport again.  The good Lord did a great job in putting us together and back together after we do our best to ruin his creation. I had serious thoughts of passing on the Road Race.   The thought of mixing it up at speed was intimidating.  I was a bit shy in drafting close but managed with a little safer distance.  Once underway, adrenalin generated by the thrill of riding wheel to wheel took over but never fully eliminated my cautious approach.  I dedicated more than normal attention to anticipating the moves of those around me.  Yep, it was a good week-end, with that and Maui Xterra last month  it’s nice to be back playing again.

Response:

Question:

I was wondering do most age groupers turn over every once in a while and backstroke during these long swims to catch their breath a little?  Thanks, Mike

The competitive swimmers typically do not use back or breaststroke for breaks as they swim front crawl throughout. For the slower crowd, you will probably see those strokes as people take a breather before going back to front crawl again.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

I saw Chuckie V doing backstroke at IMC. gordo "on the video that is" byrn

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What are some of the competive swim time for a half marathon.  I am not looking for overall results, maybe in the age group range from 30-35 Thanks Ron C You mean a half-Ironman? Times of top swimmers in 30-35 age group usually are in the mid 20 minute range with above average being around 30 minutes for a 1.2 mile swim.

That sounds awfully fast to me. Just a quick check for half vineman 99 shows that the 50th place out of 116 in 30-33 age group finished in 37 mins, which seems more reasonable. Mark Flynn San Jose

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are some of the competive swim time for a half marathon.  I am not looking for overall results, maybe in the age group range from 30-35 Thanks Ron C You mean a half-Ironman? Times of top swimmers in 30-35 age group usually are in the mid 20 minute range with above average being around 30 minutes for a 1.2 mile swim. That sounds awfully fast to me. Just a quick check for half vineman 99 shows that the 50th place out of 116 in 30-33 age group finished in 37 mins, which seems more reasonable. Mark Flynn San Jose

I may have stated a fast time for above average swims. Then again, maybe not. It depends on the swim course. I usually come out close to the front in the swims, and most of my swims have been in the mid to upper 20 minute range (I’m 30 years old BTW). There are exceptions, of course, depending on the conditions. I cannot break 30 minutes in my 5 tries at Gulf Coast Tri, nor last year at Eagleman. Both are probably due to the choppy conditions of both races. I don’t know how the Vineman swim course is, so I don’t know if that course is choppy also. If so, expect the rest of the field to be adjusted downward with these races.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

What are some of the competive swim time for a half marathon.  I am not looking for overall results, maybe in the age group range from 30-35 Thanks Ron C

Response:

What are some of the competive swim time for a half marathon.  I am not looking for overall results, maybe in the age group range from 30-35 Thanks Ron C

You mean a half-Ironman? Times of top swimmers in 30-35 age group usually are in the mid 20 minute range with above average being around 30 minutes for a 1.2 mile swim.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

I was wondering do most age groupers turn over every once in a while and backstroke during these long swims to catch their breath a little?  Thanks, Mike

Response:

Hi Mike, In the 1/2IM I just did I did not see anyone doing backstroke, I think you just have to pace yourself so that you know you can finish the swim without having to stop, you also have to pace yourself so that you can complete the rest of the race. I did a over conservative swim as the swim is the smallest part of the race. I should have done a conservative bike leg as well but that’s another story. Etienne.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering do most age groupers turn over every once in a while and backstroke during these long swims to catch their breath a little? Thanks, Mike

Response:

The only people I saw doing backstroke in a triathlon was Yves Cordier. It was a local team sprint event and he had to wait for his team mates. He was leading the team, swiming very relaxed in backstroke while the others were sprinting…. Nicolas.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was wondering do most age groupers turn over every once in a while and backstroke during these long swims to catch their breath a little?  Thanks, Mike

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Question:

Park along the southwest shore near Kiva or Pope beach and run the road past Fallen Leaf campground to the south end of Fallen Leaf Lake. Quiet paved road.  An option, if you want a hill, is to turn off and run up, (this was rough unpaved when I was there last), to Angora Lakes. Two Idyllic granite bowls. Go for a swim and have a lemonade while you’re there or hit the beach at Kiva when you get back.  Great. Pete

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I’ll be spending the weekend of the Fourth up at Lake Tahoe.  A friend has a place on Ski Run Boulevard, just a stone’s throw from the Powerline Trail.  Now, that trail is fine for a little mountain biking, but what about road biking?  I’m a little leery of the roads up there; from what I’ve seen, they don’t have much shoulder, and with Fourth weekend traffic it could be a bit dicey.  But is there a secret place with great roads and no traffic??

Traffic everywhere, but . . . one of my favorite rides is to start at the top of hwy.Kingsbury grade, and ride down into Nevada.  Then ride up Hwy 206 to Hwy 50 (it’s been a few years since I lived in the area, and am not sure if you can get all the way through to Hwy 50 on that road – I recall some back roads, but am not sure if it’s 206 all the way . . . ).  Then, ride up Hwy 50. Busy, yes, but wide and great pavement.  A killer climb.  Go to the summit, then turn around and head back down.  Finish with the quad killer back up the Kingsbury grade. If you’re going to be around there the following weekend, there is the Markleeville Death Ride.  129 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing.  Call the Alpine County C of C at 530 694 2475 for info. And what about a nice run around the Lake?  Powerline is nice, but if I want to run LONG, I’ll need to get some water somewhere. Happy to hear any suggestions!

The problem with the lakeside trails on the south shore is that they don’t go very far.  Find one you like and go out and back a couple of times.  Otherwise, find a dirt road and head into the hills. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks— — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

– Scott Powell Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I’ll be spending the weekend of the Fourth up at Lake Tahoe.  A friend has a place on Ski Run Boulevard, just a stone’s throw from the Powerline Trail.  Now, that trail is fine for a little mountain biking, but what about road biking?  I’m a little leery of the roads up there; from what I’ve seen, they don’t have much shoulder, and with Fourth weekend traffic it could be a bit dicey.  But is there a secret place with great roads and no traffic?? And what about a nice run around the Lake?  Powerline is nice, but if I want to run LONG, I’ll need to get some water somewhere. Happy to hear any suggestions! Thanks— — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

Question:

Oh my!!  How can night crawlers be destroying your lawn?  I bring home all the ones I don’t use fishing and put them in my yard.  They are the best thing you can have!!  don’t poison them!! —                 <//<         Cynthia / Southern California         "For it is God which worketh in you both           to will and to do of His good pleasure"                                 Philippians 2:13 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn. Years ago you could buy a poison that would take care of it. Thanks.

Response:

"Night Crawlers" are indeed a species of earthworm – probably the largest in North America.  Can run 6-8 inches long. The problem with them in lawns is that they leave small mounds of soil above their tunnels, which some people find to be unsightly.  Hence, the concept of wormicide. Of course, if their beneficial nature were better understood, most lawn owners would just brush away the little piles of castings, but I would not be surprised if some turf purists would still attempt to wipe out the worms.  Can’t have any unsightly flaws in the lawn, y’know.

No sooner read than done Don… night crawlers as Don said is a large variety of earthworm properly referred to as Lumbricus terrestis. Unlike the compost worm or the standard earthworm, these because of their size use a semi permanent tunnel that they enlarge as they grow, and they feed by coming to the surface to drag down organic waste to rot in their burrows and be eaten at leisure. Tilling or disturbing the soil tends to discourage them, because of the need for a permanent tunnel. They do leave mounds of castings on the soil which some find to be unpleasant, but those castings are far from harmful to the lawn, they are like a very rich compost only in my opinion better. The exact contents would vary depending on what was fed the worms, but the end result would be most of the nutrients contained in the food being left in a real nice slow release form and dropped back on top for your plants. Earthworms of all types also have the net effect of spreading beneficial bacteria and fungus through the soil with their castings, so can be a big help in reviving a dead soil. More info on worms in general can be found at http://www.mertus.org/gardening/worms.html and if you want to go farther than that let me know. I do have a number of vermicomposting links I’d be glad to share.

Response:

Night Crawlers are great for the lawn.  Just as are the worms, ants, pill bugs, mo’s and other of Gods creatures that live in the soil.  If the mounds get to be a problem, I’ve  found that using a sod roller to flatten them out works okay.  The best thing is to use a mulching lawn mower and just let the critters live and let live. Tom in Utah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn. Are you talking about a variety of earthworm?  If so, you do not want to get rid of them; they are important for healthy soil.  If not, what are these night crawlers? Chris Owens

Response:

Trank? What ARE you people in Florida keeping as pets these days?

Hey these folks have fish that bite, insects that dive deep under the water, snakes that can compete in the Iron Man triathalon, and crawdads in so many numbers in their lawns that you can’t eat enough of ‘em! Terri

Response:

Nightcrawlers are indeed earthworms. I wish I were in a climate in which they could take up residence in my ground. Yes, they are very important for a good lawn, and so are other forms of life. There are people, of course, that prefer sterile ground; for these, lawns (with all their attendant worms, insects, microbes, and bacteria) are not recommended. Such folk can lay down green linoleum or asphalt tile, both of which take a nice polish when waxed.

This sounds like my dad–kind of. What he does to a lawn should be a crime. His idea of a good mow is to buzz the lawn. My husband and I joke that the lawn ain’t mowed unless my dad has eliminated all that nasty green stuff. Theresa Mesa — (Fibroflares are not conducive to great typing!)

Response:

Dennis, where are you posting from?  In most of the world night crawlers is a worm that is beneficial.  Here in central Florida there is a critter, that looks a whole bunch like a trank, and it either eats grass roots or disturbs the soil enough to cause damage I’m not sure which. But the locals refer to it as a night crawler. Zhanataya zone 9 central Florida Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn. Years ago you could buy a poison that would take care of it. Thanks.

–

Response:

Trank? What ARE you people in Florida keeping as pets these days? Chappy’s Power Organics 3200 Corte Malpaso, #107 Camarillo CA 93012 Info & Orders <http://www.bio-organics.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dennis, where are you posting from?  In most of the world night crawlers is a worm that is beneficial.  Here in central Florida there is a critter, that looks a whole bunch like a trank, and it either eats grass roots or disturbs the soil enough to cause damage I’m not sure which. But the locals refer to it as a night crawler. Zhanataya zone 9 central Florida

Response:

Nightcrawlers are indeed earthworms. I wish I were in a climate in which they could take up residence in my ground. Yes, they are very important for a good lawn, and so are other forms of life. There are people, of course, that prefer sterile ground; for these, lawns (with all their attendant worms, insects, microbes, and bacteria) are not recommended. Such folk can lay down green linoleum or asphalt tile, both of which take a nice polish when waxed. Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn. Are you talking about a variety of earthworm?  If so, you do not want to get rid of them; they are important for healthy soil.  If not, what are these night crawlers? Chris Owens

Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv’on Israel me. Sorry. Send E-mail to: domain: hashkedim dot com, username: stan.

Response:

"Night Crawlers" are indeed a species of earthworm – probably the largest in North America.  Can run 6-8 inches long. The problem with them in lawns is that they leave small mounds of soil above their tunnels, which some people find to be unsightly.  Hence, the concept of wormicide. Of course, if their beneficial nature were better understood, most lawn owners would just brush away the little piles of castings, but I would not be surprised if some turf purists would still attempt to wipe out the worms.  Can’t have any unsightly flaws in the lawn, y’know. (Sigh) Chappy’s Power Organics 3200 Corte Malpaso, #107 Camarillo CA 93012 Info & Orders <http://www.bio-organics.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn. Are you talking about a variety of earthworm?  If so, you do not want to get rid of them; they are important for healthy soil.  If not, what are these night crawlers? Chris Owens

Response:

If you are talking about the big earthworms, you must be related to the person who posted a question of how to get rid of those "big, ugly preying mantis(s) tom kan pa

Response:

Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn. Years ago you could buy a poison that would take care of it. Thanks.

Response:

Dennis, Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn.

Worms are necessary for lawns. They create air and water holes. Are you sure you want to destroy them? Years ago you could buy a poison that would take care of it.

Heaven forbid…box them up in damp peat and ship to me! Actually, sell them to your local bait shop…. Lori

Response:

Does anyone know of anyway to get rid of night crawlers in my lawn.  I built a new home a few years ago and I am not winning the battle.  They are destroying my lawn.

Are you talking about a variety of earthworm?  If so, you do not want to get rid of them; they are important for healthy soil.  If not, what are these night crawlers? Chris Owens

Response:

Question:

Now here’s a subject that I can be entirely subjective about… :- I currently ride on a 700c road Slingshot…not the 650c triathlon version, so I’ll spare you the argument about the ride differences. In short, the bike rides great, it is super smooth over road buzz type stuff.  Never having ridden carbon or titanium on a regular basis, I can’t speculate as to ride qualities as compared to those.  Compared to a regular steel road bike, the only difference is that for medium to larger bumps you actually want to stay seated versus standing up on a regular bike.  The spring doesn’t seem to absorb as much if you don’t "pre-load" it with your body weight, but than again, that’s a completely subjective statement.  Other than that, there’s nothing really different (except for the way it looks), although the sizing is kinda cool.  The bike gives a incredibly low stand-over height, although that’s not really a performance issue, it sure makes for a low handlebar position if you’re flexible enough to pursue that route. Later, Dave David Chen Department of Exercise Science Arizona State University Speed is Life…are you alive? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My current bike is a standard road geometry frame set up for triathlon (forward seat post, aerobars). I am  looking at purchasing a steeper seatpost tri bike and have considered a number of options. One of these is the Slingshot tri bike, but I have not read much about anyone using the slingshot for triathlons. Can anyone respond, good or bad comments or experiences with Slingshots? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thks.

Response:

My current bike is a standard road geometry frame set up for triathlon (forward seat post, aerobars). I am  looking at purchasing a steeper seatpost tri bike and have considered a number of options. One of these is the Slingshot tri bike, but I have not read much about anyone using the slingshot for triathlons. Can anyone respond, good or bad comments or experiences with Slingshots? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thks.

        a couple (not just one) of people around me had slingshots. the key word is had. the frames cracked very badly while the people were riding them. scary! right around welds and at the bb ( a sign of shotty workmanship) . the owner of slingshot was a real knob about it. he said he had got some frames back with the exact problems as i mention but and that he could do something about it but he wasn’t going to because he just didn’t feel like it. too much profit out of his pocket. i’ve never talked to a owner of a business that didn’t put the reputation of his company above all other things. i guess he doesn’t care about his customers after they are out the door.         be careful that no rust starts to appear in your seattube. once it does these frames don’t last long.

Response:

My current bike is a standard road geometry frame set up for triathlon (forward seat post, aerobars). I am  looking at purchasing a steeper seatpost tri bike and have considered a number of options. One of these is the Slingshot tri bike, but I have not read much about anyone using the slingshot for triathlons. Can anyone respond, good or bad comments or experiences with Slingshots? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thks.

Response:

Question:

The bike I’m using for tri’s is basically a converted touring bike. CroMoly frame, and weighs about 27 lbs. with aero bars, etc..  It also seems to have different gearing than most people’s tri bikes (I’ve noticed that my bike has smaller chainrings and larger rear cogs than most others I see in the transition area). I’m a middle-of-the-pack triathlete, wondering how much if any it would help to get a "real" tri bike.  Any advice?

Well you could go out and get new chainrings and rear cogs, but I suspect that a new bike might be a significant improvement.  I just bought a used Trek 1400 that weighs 22 pounds with my aerobar, and I paid a mere $250. Rob — Ironman Canada 1998 Rob Blomquist aka TriDog Seattle, WA http://www.accessone.com/~robb

Response:

The bike I’m using for tri’s is basically a converted touring bike. CroMoly frame, and weighs about 27 lbs. with aero bars, etc..  It also seems to have different gearing than most people’s tri bikes (I’ve noticed that my bike has smaller chainrings and larger rear cogs than most others I see in the transition area). I’m a middle-of-the-pack triathlete, wondering how much if any it would help to get a "real" tri bike.  Any advice? Thanks, Mike B.

Response:

It depends on how serious you want to get at this racing. Can you afford another bike, ask yourself that. You can change out your chainrings or rear cog to get higher gear ratios. But,  at the very least you should get some aero bars. That is one of the best any cheapest ways to get faster. Also narrower tires would be helpful. It is just a question of what commitment you have to racing tris and how much you want to move up from middle of the pack. Look at your bike splits in comparison to others in your age group and see if the bike is where you are lacking. Some of that could be equipment. I agonized for a long time on spending $700 for aero wheels myself, but finally said it was now that I needed them. All the competition had them and I couldn’t afford not to. It kind of never ends with this bike stuff.

Response:

The gearing question is easily resolved. Do you run out of gear while riding? The smaller rear cassette provides more closely spaced gears to choose from at normal racing and training speeds. Low gears on touring and commuter bikes are there to deal with steep climbs and heavy loads. But getting new gears is simply a matter of changing freewheels (your bike probably uses freewheels instead of a cassette) and chainrings. Talk to your local bike shop. As far as a "real tri-bike" is concerned, you have two choices. If you go with a pure tri-bike, you will get a geometry designed for comfortable riding in the aerobars. A conventional road bike is designed for comfort with your hands on the handlebars. Aerobars are a compromise on a road bike, but aerobars are dangerous in group rides. A tri-bike is therefore a difficult bike for group rides. So take a look at your riding. If you spend a lot of time in groups, such as club rides and rallies, then you might favor a road bike. You will certainly have many to choose from at any reasonable price range. If you will only ride solo, then consider the tri-geometry. You will see many triathletes on conventional road bikes, so that is probably the more versatile mount. Whatever kind of bike you consider, fit is more important than anything else. Make sure you go to a competent bike shop that sells to experienced riders. You can also visit Quintana Roo’s web page at http://www.rooworld.com for fitting advice for tri-bikes. For fitting a road bike, I recommend the chapter on fit in Greg Lemond’s Complete Book of Cycling, which is available at your local bike shop or bookstore. Finally, a good bike is a joy to own. You will feel like your work is being translated directly into forward motion instead of being absorbed by the bike. Nothing feels as good to me as going from a flexy bike with heavy tires and wheels to a racing bike. It makes you feel fast. A good bike won’t make you a better rider, but a bad bike can hide your improvement. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The bike I’m using for tri’s is basically a converted touring bike. CroMoly frame, and weighs about 27 lbs. with aero bars, etc..  It also seems to have different gearing than most people’s tri bikes (I’ve noticed that my bike has smaller chainrings and larger rear cogs than most others I see in the transition area). I’m a middle-of-the-pack triathlete, wondering how much if any it would help to get a "real" tri bike.  Any advice?

Response:

Question:

I just talked to Steve Locke.  He apologized for not doing this himself but he’s really busy right now.  Here’s what Steve told me.   * "There are no angels here.  Lot’s of different problems created the      unfortunate situation at Muncie."       1) The officials were USAT but the rules they were enforcing were          ITU.  The ITU "illegal drafting race" rule allows 30 seconds for a          pass (USAT is 15 secs).  Also, in the ITU rule if you end up not          passing within the 30 seconds you just leave the zone and you’re          cool.  So, folks just play the in-and-out game – clearly nearly          impossible for a marshal to enforce.  USAT rules close that loop          hole by saying that if you don’t pass within the specified time          you were drafting.       2) Only 9 motorcycles showed up (he didn’t say why).  Steve says that          the theory this was an "ITU conspiracy" is "Totally Bogus".  So .          .  .  25 refs showed but only 9 were on the course.       3) For an unknown reason the ITU director at the race did *not*          direct all 9 motorcycles to officiate the age group race after          they were done with the pros. Steve also mentioned how graphic the drafting was in the age groups.  Lots and lots of cheating.  That, IMHO, is not a USAT or ITU problem – IT’S OUR PROBLEM AS ATHLETES. —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

I just talked to Steve Locke.  He apologized for not doing this himself but he’s really busy right now.  Here’s what Steve told me.  * "There are no angels here.  Lot’s of different problems created the     unfortunate situation at Muncie."      1) The officials were USAT but the rules they were enforcing were         ITU.  The ITU "illegal drafting race" rule allows 30 seconds for a         pass (USAT is 15 secs).  Also, in the ITU rule if you end up not         passing within the 30 seconds you just leave the zone and you’re         cool.  So, folks just play the in-and-out game – clearly nearly         impossible for a marshal to enforce.  USAT rules close that loop         hole by saying that if you don’t pass within the specified time         you were drafting.

Larry, please clarify this for me. Does this mean that if I am attempting to pass and that rider puts out an effort to stay ahead, if he/she can hold me off for 15 seconds then I am subject to a drafting call? I have been under the impression that if a pass was unsuccessful one must merely drop out of the zone before attempting again. You are saying here that unless one is 100% sure that they can make the pass, it is cheating to even attempt it. Maybe USAT needs to look at our own rules a little closer. This, to me, is downright stupid if true. We are, after all, racing out there. snip<< Steve also mentioned how graphic the drafting was in the age groups.  Lots and lots of cheating.  That, IMHO, is not a USAT or ITU problem – IT’S OUR PROBLEM AS ATHLETES.

Well said! I agree with this completely. And, as athletes, we need to support the officials and their actions to keep anarchy out of the sport. Enforcement is the best (maybe the only) way to keep the athletes playing fair. Many will take it as far as they are allowed to. Every pitcher in MLB knows how every umpire judges the strike zone, and adjusts to it. The NFL and NBA players do the same thing. They play by the rules *as enforced*, not as written. If pass interference was against the rules in football, but the referees chose to not penalize for it, imagine the result. Andrew Peabody Miami Beach —   LSC (aka Larry Chapman)   (970) 229-3117

– Internet Communications Of America

Response:

Larry, please clarify this for me. Does this mean that if I am attempting to pass and that rider puts out an effort to stay ahead, if he/she can hold me off for 15 seconds then I am subject to a drafting call?

That is correct. I have been under the impression that if a pass was unsuccessful one must merely drop out of the zone before attempting again.

That’s how the rules used to be written.  Unfortunatly, many cheaters started playing the in-and-out game.  We even had a Pro set his watch to beep every 15 seconds! You are saying here that unless one is 100% sure that they can make the pass, it is cheating to even attempt it.

Right. "5.10.H  Exceptions.         A participant may enter the drafting zone without penalty only         under the following conditions:            (1) When entering the drafting zone from the rear, closing the                gap, and overtaking, all within no more than 15 seconds." Maybe USAT needs to look at our own rules a little closer. This, to me, is downright stupid if true. We are, after all, racing out there.

So . . . suggest an alternative that will prevent in-and-out. snip<< Steve also mentioned how graphic the drafting was in the age groups.  Lots and lots of cheating.  That, IMHO, is not a USAT or ITU problem – IT’S OUR PROBLEM AS ATHLETES.

–    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

        …in the ITU rule if you end up not         passing within the 30 seconds you just leave the zone and you’re         cool.  So, folks just play the in-and-out game – clearly nearly         impossible for a marshal to enforce.  USAT rules close that loop         hole by saying that if you don’t pass within the specified time         you were drafting. Larry, please clarify this for me.

Will you listen to anyone other than Larry? Does this mean that if I am attempting to pass and that rider puts out an effort to stay ahead, if he/she can hold me off for 15 seconds then I am subject to a drafting call?

Technically speaking, "Yup!" From the rule book:   5.10(h) Exceptions:     A participant may enter the drafting zone without penalty only under     the following conditions:         (1) When entering the drafting zone from the rear, closing             the gap, and overtaking all within no more than 15 seconds;         (2) When cyclists reduce speed for safety reasons, for             course blockage, for an aid station, for an emergency, when             entering or exiting a transition area, or when making a turn             of 90 degrees or more; or         (3) When USA Triathlon or the Head Referee expressly excludes             a section of the bicycle course from the position foul             rules because of overly narrow lanes, construction, detours,             or a similar reason. This means that the only time you are allowed 15 seconds is if you enter the drafting zone from the back and pass the other cyclist within those 15 seconds.  Since you must enter from the back, this also prevents you from slipping in the side, drafting the other cyclist for 10 seconds and then passing him. I have been under the impression that if a pass was unsuccessful one must merely drop out of the zone before attempting again. You are saying here that unless one is 100% sure that they can make the pass, it is cheating to even attempt it.

From Section 5.10(f) of the rule book (the section on "Position and Passing"):     A participant must not attempt to pass another cyclist unless     adequate space is available and he is confident of his ability     to overtake and pass the other cyclist. There is no violation for attempting to pass when you are less than 100% sure you can successfully complete the pass.  The violation occurs if you actually fail to complete it (i.e. the violation is not in attempting the pass, but in failing to complete it).  My belief is that the above sentence in the rules is included to prevent people from using the excuse, "Really! I was trying to pass!" Back to the example that Andrew presented above, I would be very surprised if you got a penalty because you tried to pass someone and they accelerated.  I have spoken to at least one "zero tolerance" official who says he really only penalizes people who are trying to gain a benefit from drafting.  Of course, if you repeatedly failed to pass people, then it wouldn’t surprise me as much if you were penalized.   The safest way to pass someone is to move to the side and pass them without ever intersecting drafting zones.  If the zones never intersect, then there cannot be a drafting violation, even if it takes you 3 minutes to pass them (if it takes 3 minutes, then make sure you don’t block other cyclists). Maybe USAT needs to look at our own rules a little closer.

On numerous occasions (like since before RST even existed and tri talk took place on rec.running and rec.bicycles), Larry has solicited rule suggestions from people on the net.  If you have ideas for rule changes or additions, then send them to Larry or even post them here on RST.  That’s what I always do!  But in doing so, I would also suggest that instead of just pointing out flaws in the rules, you try and suggest ways to fix those flaws. This, to me, is downright stupid if true.

It’s not so stupid when you compare it to the ITU rule that has a loophole in it big enough to allow rapidly rotating pacelines. We are, after all, racing out there.

Yup, but in order to keep the race fair, we all have to follow the same set of rules.  Until some rules are written that distinguish between the case Andrew describes above and the guy who sucks wheel for 15 seconds before dropping back, I think the correct choice is to have the rule be a little too strict rather than too lenient. (Remember that the rule must be enforceable and cannot require the official to read anyone’s mind to determine intent). While we are on the topic of rules, I’d like to point out one other aspect of the USAT drafting rules that are often misunderstood.  A lot of people believe that you only need to stay 1 meter to the side of someone else to avoid a drafting violation.  This is incorrect.  The USAT drafting rules state that your drafting zone only needs to intersect with the drafting zone of another cyclist to be in violation.  Remembering that drafting zones extend 1 meter to each side, this means that you must stay 2 meters to the side of another cyclist. As always, if anyone wants to see the USAT rules, I have them on my web page.  Remember that the only way for everyone to follow the same rules is if everyone makes an effort to learn them.                                         — John — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

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Question:

What do you think about the Profile AirWave ? I consider buying one because it seems to have the following advatanges: – one piece instead of handlebar and aero clip – lightweight ( 120 gr less than Syntace bar and clip ) – adjustment forward/back possible (really is?) – low price because no handle-bar necessary Can anyone confirm this? I want to mount grip shift and there is contradictory information: one dealer told me it’s impossible to mount them, in one catalogue I read, it’s possible. What’s true? What do you think about the handling compared to syntace? Is the stability o.k.? Thx, Peter

Response:

Newgroups: rec.sport.triathlon What do you think about the Profile AirWave ?

I rode them for about two years, they were great when I first started but as I got stronger on the bike they flexed more and more to the point that it became really annoying climbing hills and sprinting.  Felt like I was being zapped of all my force.  I switched to the Syntace C2 and Bull horn, heavier but no doubt a lot stronger.     I consider buying one because it seems to have the following advatanges: – one piece instead of handlebar and aero clip – lightweight ( 120 gr less than Syntace bar and clip ) – adjustment forward/back possible (really is?) – low price because no handle-bar necessary Can anyone confirm this? I want to mount grip shift and there is contradictory information: one dealer told me it’s impossible to mount them, in one catalogue I read, it’s possible. What’s true? What do you think about the handling compared to syntace? Is the stability o.k.?

Don’t know about the Grip Shift, on the Profiles I used the Swiftshift and on the Syntace their Aeroshift. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thx, Peter

Response:

I have had an Air Wave for the past two racing seasons.  Generally I like it.  It’s solid (little if any creaking during climbs), has reasonable adjustability, and as you said is light weight.   I use the profile swift shift system.  I don’t think you will get the Grip Shifters on as there is no bridge like on the original profile bar (triangle thing).  I suspect the inside Diameter on the Grip Shifters will not let you snake it all the way to the front of the bar.  Maybe someone else can comment? If you use a Swift Shifting system I strongly suggest replacing the small ferrule mounts on the down tubes with a Shimano STI version.  The ones Profile provides (or used to) may split your cable housings over time. Gary

Response:

Have used the Profile Air Waves and can say the following: 1. They are lighter 2. You can use Grip Shift on the (had on both my bike and my wife’s) 3. Are not that strong…something you don’t notice until you use a cowhorn and        aero bar setup 4. While they are nice, if you haven’t bought them get the seperate cowhorn and        aero bar

Response:

I’ve made a decision based on the infos you gave me, I take Syntace. Thank you, Ed, Steve, Tom and "ShelbyE305". Peter

Response:

Question:

Please help, I went out for a long bike and short run on sunday and since monday the pain in my left calf has continued to get worse. It seems to be fine after I walk around and while I haven’t been running on it, I did swim and biked some yesterday. This morning it’s painful to walk on and so the questions are: can I continue to swim and how about the bike? why don’t I feel any localized spot of pain? (the whole calf seems to be stiff and sore) what’s the recovery time? I guess I’ll just use the ol RICE method of treatment? I wanted so much to do the New England Endurance Triathlon which is in 17 days. Can I get it healed by then? Is there anything like a perpetual cramp or did I just blow out the whole muscle? Thanks for whatever advise you can give. chris Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die. —            EVERYONE DIES, BUT NOT EVERYONE LIVES

Response:

Good luck with the sore calf. I have had problems with both legs during the past two years. Best advise I can give is to take it very easy on the run. Use your swimming and biking to stay in shape. You may be able to race. Two potential problems that I have experienced. Strained calf muscle took a six week layoff to heal. Periostitis in left calf has not responded to similar treatment. When rest fails, go see a good sport Dr. Good luck – Hope you feel better. Calves can be a pain!

Response:

Question:

I need to get my two cents in here as well.  I experienced severe, I mean SEVERE, cramps at appromixately mile 90 of the bike segment.  My quads, hamstrings, calves and even my fingers curled up like pretzels.  I am an experienced triathlete (finished over 100 races, 10 Ironman’s, including the blast furnace in Kona) and have never, ever cramped up to that degree.  These were so bad I had to withdraw from the race and get a ride in the aid car back to the medical tent, where I eventually recovered after a couple of hours of spasms and a couple of IV’s.  I have only dropped out of 1 other race in my life, and that was after a bike crash, so to DNF at IMC was extremely disapointing, to say the least.  I realize that correlation does not prove causation, but, this was the first time I have ever cramped, and also the first time I have ever used Endura.  I do not believe that hydration was a major contributor as I had downed approximately 10 bottles of fluid, and had urinated 3 times on the bike.   I am at a loss to explain this, so I would be interested in hearing other opinions, theories, etc.                            Jon Hammermeister                            Univ. of Idaho

Response:

I need to get my two cents in here as well.  I experienced severe, I mean SEVERE, cramps at appromixately mile 90 of the bike segment.  My quads, hamstrings, calves and even my fingers curled up like pretzels. … and also the first time I have ever used Endura.  I do not believe that hydration was a major contributor as I had downed approximately 10 bottles of fluid, and had urinated 3 times on the bike.  

You had hyponatremia, a loss of sodium (which Endura is low in) which resulted in the inability to retain water and dehydration. Salty foods (like Gatorade) would have prevented it.  Heat training would also help by reducing the concentration of sodium lost in sweat. The I.V.’s you received replaced both water and sodium. I bet that the large number of illnesses at Ironman Canada were caused by immunosupression from the stress of hyponatremia-induced dehydration.  I believe that most forms of stress suppress the immune system, such as heat, cold, hunger, lack of sleep, sunburn, emotional stress, etc. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

Response:

(Matt Mahoney) writes:

You had hyponatremia, a loss of sodium (which Endura is low in) which resulted in the inability to retain water and dehydration. Salty foods (like Gatorade) would have prevented it.  Heat training would also help by reducing the concentration of sodium lost in sweat. The I.V.’s you received replaced both water and sodium. Matt: Endura’s sodium content is posted. Is this really that much lower than Gatorade that it could be linked to this many problems? Any of you Ph.D’s have any scientific info on this?

Response:

Endura’s sodium content is posted. Is this really that much lower than Gatorade that it could be linked to this many problems?

 Actually, I checked because I was curious about this too.  Gatorade has 110mg / 8oz serving.  Cytomax has only  80mg / 16oz serving.  I’m not sure what the serving  size for Endura was but I would guess that it was  16oz (closer to a water bottle size) and it was 92 mg (?).  As you can see Gatorade has almost 3 times as much as  Cytomax and twice as much as Endura.  I consider that  a BIG difference over the course of and Ironman where  you are taking in gallons of fluids.  John K.

Response:

Were any volunteers at IMC sick?  How about the regular citizens of Penticton(sp)? "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place." —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

Response:

I didn’t get sick before, during or after the race, but… I got wicked stomach cramps at mile 23 that were alleviated by a rather urgent trip to the Portajohn.  From there on I was fine.  No dehydration or whatever.   I really think the diarrhea/stomach problems were caused by the Endura, as I never have had anything like this with Gatorade, and I found myself CRAVING salt during the run.   I was well hydrated throughout the race, judging by my 20-30 (yes that many) piss stops.  Next IM, I’ll drink less.   Rolf Arands, Ph.D.

Response:

<deleted good discussion on salts Thanks for the input.  I agree that salt stripping was probably a factor here for alot of us.   A question for Mark Jenkins: From a muscle operation standpoint, what effect would the loss of salts (esp sodium) have on the function of the muscles?  And on the CV system? (If you answered these already, please let me know…) I did note many people with salt crystals all over there faces, and I **scraped** them off myself as well.  I think the salt loss was a major factor, one I only vaguely anticipated.  Next year – SALTINES, pretzels, and maybe some Chinese food… It would be cool if there were a performance drink/food with the following specs: easily digested/absorbed PROPER electrolyte replacement (including sodium) minimal gastric upset **reduced** load of vitamins per serving Rolf Arands

Response:

Sako) writes:

Maybe JJ could look into this for us.  I’d hate for us to decide that xxx or yyy were the problem without all the facts (although I do think OJ is guilty … ooops … being geeky again).  Besides the crowded 2nd swim leg, IMC is my favorite race. I’ve gone about as far as I can go with this. I would need to see test results of Penticton water, Endura used at the race (Endura is doing that) and all other factors to come to a correct conclusion. I do think that the "Ironman’s Disease" is kind of a catchy phrase though…. JJ

Response:

I really think the diarrhea/stomach problems were caused by the Endura, as I never have had anything like this with Gatorade, and I found myself CRAVING salt during the run.   I was well hydrated throughout the race, judging by my 20-30 (yes that many) piss stops.  Next IM, I’ll drink less.  

Not so fast, there.  When you lose sodium, you are unable to retain water. I thought I was hydrated at a hot (high 80’s, sunny) 24 hour run last May because I was drinking plenty of water (1.8 quarts/hour) and was urinating clear every hour.  Silly me.  After 11 hours I left the track utterly fatigued and 5 pounds lighter.  After supper and 8 hours sleep I continued the race, drank Gatorade (high in sodium), and felt great, even though I didn’t pee for the next 6 hours. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

Response:

I really think the diarrhea/stomach problems were caused by the Endura, as I never have had anything like this with Gatorade, and I found myself CRAVING salt during the run.   I was well hydrated throughout the race, judging by my 20-30 (yes that many) piss stops.  Next IM, I’ll drink less.   Not so fast, there.  When you lose sodium, you are unable to retain water. I thought I was hydrated at a hot (high 80’s, sunny) 24 hour run last May because I was drinking plenty of water (1.8 quarts/hour) and was urinating clear every hour.  Silly me.  After 11 hours I left the track utterly fatigued and 5 pounds lighter.  After supper and 8 hours sleep I continued the race, drank Gatorade (high in sodium), and felt great, even though I didn’t pee for the next 6 hours.

I’ll have to agree with Matt.  I experienced the same thing. I drank alot, and pissed alot (clear), but I "felt" like I was dehydrated.  I was totally fatigued and had trouble moving my legs etc.  I think the water was just passing through. My theory (no facts, data, or other evidence) is that the high Cl- in the water drew out the Na+, and K+ and mobilized it into the bloodstream in a higher amount.  We then sweated it out in much higher volumes than normal and were unable to replace them. Water wasn’t the problem.. it was the electrolytes. John K.

Response:

One person was saying that there are rumors that the medical personnel were blaming the fluid replacement drink for an increase in dehydration and diarehha (sp?) due to its high magnisium content and minimal (none) sodium content.  I The problem with Endura is that you can’t mix it with any solid food, or you will get a diarrhoea.  This left you with these choices:

I trained all summer w/ endura and solid food and had no problems.  I also did IMC and drank endura and ate lots and had no problems … in fact nutritionally speaking I had none of the problems that I experienced in my previous 2 IMC’s. Sounds to me that there may have been a couple of problems, dehydration, diareahahahaha, other flu like symptoms … which may or not be related. There have also been a couple of good *possible* culprits: endura, bad h2o (whether it’s ghiardia or Penticton sewage, or too many IronHeads peeing in their wetsuits), or maybe just a virus. [geeky humor mode on] Hmmm "just a virus" … actually that might be the best thing, we could be become famous by naming it IronMan’s disease, kind of like Legionarres disease. [geek mode off] Maybe JJ could look into this for us.  I’d hate for us to decide that xxx or yyy were the problem without all the facts (although I do think OJ is guilty … ooops … being geeky again).  Besides the crowded 2nd swim leg, IMC is my favorite race. tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number);  Very interesting…. I had some problems myself and I didn’t drink  very much of the Endura.  I brought plenty of my own and just  got water from most of the aid stations.   Ooh, we could be on to something here.  I drank primarily bottled water from the stores while I was there the week and a half before the race.  I noticed all the adds for bottled water in the area, and how many restaurants and stores had water coolers as opposed to drinking fountains.  So, I got paranoid and bought and drank ONLY bottled water.  On the race course I drank the water they handed me.  

I have some more to add here.  I bought bottled water but did not use it.  (The tap tasted ok).  But after the race my girlfriend was actually more tired than I was.  We also talked to some other racers girlfriends and they said they were really tired too. They (the girlfriends) are all athletes too and drink a lot of water. They all thought it was very odd that they were so tired.  And, theuir fatigue was consistant over the couple of days that we were there. John K.

Response:

One person was saying that there are rumors that the medical personnel were blaming the fluid replacement drink for an increase in dehydration and diarehha (sp?) due to its high magnisium content and minimal (none) sodium content.  I

The problem with Endura is that you can’t mix it with any solid food, or you will get a diarrhoea.  This left you with these choices: 1. Drink Endura and use Endura Optimizer as your calorie source.    I did this, and not having used the Optimizer in training, suffered    a bonk at mile 60.  (the Optimizer has 0.0 fat) 2. Drink plain water and eat your PowerBars, BTU Stokers, etc.  You    might get problems from not taking in sodium.  One female racer    (a friend of a friend) had to be taken into intensive care at    mile 18 of the marathon.  She did not bonk.  She got so low on    sodium that her body shut down (Hypernatremia, I think is what    it’s called).  When I was leaving Penticton on Tuesday, she was    still in the hospital, still unconscious. 3. Carry your own electrolyte drink powder.  Next year I will do this.    However, this is a hassle. I think that this problem is caused by the fact that Unipro has a product that should be used together with Endura Drink — the Optimizer, but because PowerBar sponsors the race and the Optimizer is basically a liqud energy bar, they cannot have it at the race. This makes sense from the marketing point of view, however I would rather see either having Optimizer on the course or having a different electrolyte drink that allows mixing with solid foods. Kostya Vasilyev                                         swim-bike-run SYMANTEC Corp. Development Tools                        eat- eat -eat (408) 446-7165                                          program in C++

Response:

I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

I didn’t hear anything.  I heard some people talking before and during the race about how Endura (the on-course replacement fluid) didn’t agree with them.  I drank only water. Christopher Panczyk                              o   _____ ___         Dept. of Chem. Engineering   __/o_     __o     <|    |   |  |  |       Purdue University                     _ <_    _/     |   |__|  |        

Response:

I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? — – I can only speak from my personal IMC experience.  In a nutshell,

     it was hell. I developed this cough right out of the water.  There      was this stuff in my throat that was making it difficult to breath.      I was riding, I coughed and spit this stuff out.  More stuff would      form in my throat.  I coughed and spit it out.  Throughout the bike,      I was doing this.  I had ZERO strength, I mean none.  I was dying,      and couldn’t figure out why.        By the end of the bike, stuff I was coughing up had blood in it.      I took a looooooooooooong transition, and against the medical      tent doctor’s advice, I went out on the run.  The run didn’t      go any better, and I continued coughing and spitting this flem/blood      crap throughout the run.  And I had no energy whatsoever.      The next day, and days that followed, I dealt with a lot of respitory      conjestion, and coughing.  I’m just now feeling closer to 100% than      the 50% that I felt during the race.      I am very dis-appointed with myself to say the least. -RC

Response:

1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number);  Very interesting…. I had some problems myself and I didn’t drink  very much of the Endura.  I brought plenty of my own and just  got water from most of the aid stations.  

Ooh, we could be on to something here.  I drank primarily bottled water from the stores while I was there the week and a half before the race.  I noticed all the adds for bottled water in the area, and how many restaurants and stores had water coolers as opposed to drinking fountains.  So, I got paranoid and bought and drank ONLY bottled water.  On the race course I drank the water they handed me.   I heard that Okanagan Lake is used both as a drinking water source and the drainage point for their sewage system in Penticton.   I just became a little paranoid and stay away from the tap water, and like I stated in a previous post, I did not have any ill-effects that didn’t come from just being tired after the event. 2.  Apparently there was some kind of virus or beaver fever or something in the drinking water, and as the town had no filtration system, they increased the amount of chlorine to quite a high level, i.e., something approaching pool water (this is what I heard 3rd hand).  I wonder if some smart guy like Mark Jenkins could reply on what a higher amount of chlorine in the water might do (i.e., leach the positive ions, K+, Na+, Ca+, out of one’s system?).  If so, might not this cause a lot of dehydration, along with kidney & liver problems?  

Christopher Panczyk                              o   _____ ___         Dept. of Chem. Engineering   __/o_     __o     <|    |   |  |  |       Purdue University                     _ <_    _/     |   |__|  |        

Response:

1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number);

  Very interesting…. I had some problems myself and I didn’t drink   very much of the Endura.  I brought plenty of my own and just   got water from most of the aid stations.   2.  Apparently there was some kind of virus or beaver fever or something in the drinking water, and as the town had no filtration system, they increased the amount of chlorine to quite a high level, i.e., something approaching pool water (this is what I heard 3rd hand).  I wonder if some smart guy like Mark Jenkins could reply on what a higher amount of chlorine in the water might do (i.e., leach the positive ions, K+, Na+, Ca+, out of one’s system?).  If so, might not this cause a lot of dehydration, along with kidney & liver problems?  

  This is even more interesting.  I had absolutly no problems with   hydration (I think).  I was going to the bathroom constantly (clear) but   I was having some real muscle problems … electrolyte imbalance??   I do wonder if it was due to the water.  I remember somebody that I   talked to had mentioned the chlorine in the water.  I didn’t notice   it (must be all of the pool water I normally drink).   I was definitly having a good race until my supplies ran out and   I started using theirs (I brought quite a bit)    John K.

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I got seasick during the swim.  I can only blame that on myself though. The water was warm and I wore a long sleeve wet suit.  The TV helicoptors help put an addition chop to the water (beyond what was already there from a mass start of 1350 mad ironmates:)) and the wind kicked up as we passed the first boat which added to the chop.  I stopped at a canoe and blew some peanut butter PR Bar and headed back on my way.   I analyzed the print out on my HRM this morning.  The sickness caused a big drop in heart rate from 150s to 120s, but again, I’d say that’s from me slowing down to get a grip.  Slowed the swim down to 1:15 and took a 7 minute transition. Once on land, there were no additional ill effects.  Bike and run were great; final time 10:34 (oh…to have that swim back again!).

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I didn’t get sick.  But a friend of mine did.  Same result as the other person who was sick all nite. As Dr. Mark pointed out, not only are there lots of people in the same place … I know in years past they have recycled h2o bottles on the bike, and some aid stations ran out of drinking cups, and had to recycle them. There were so many endura bottles this year that I kind of doubt they recycled on the bike, and all the run stations I went thru still had new cups.  I finished 12:35, so I was behind most of the netters there.

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why?

JJ, I talked to a few people close to the race the next day they said the there was a much higher number of people in the medical tent then usual (the weather was nothing that extreme). This may have been what the SF Chronicle was referring to. One person was saying that there are rumors that the medical personnel were blaming the fluid replacement drink for an increase in dehydration and diarehha (sp?) due to its high magnisium content and minimal (none) sodium content.  I guess the organizers were not happy at all with the number of people that needed medical attention.   However, if thats not what the SF Chron was reffering to, I would be curious as to what they were talking about.  Other than the above, I had not heard anything about illness. I know that I have been pretty tired and my heart rate can get pretty high at a pretty low level of exercise and my endurance is pretty low, but that would be expected after a race like that.  I expect a couple of weeks (if not more) to recover to a semi-normal level. John K.

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I’ve heard this brewing for the last few days.  Before I’d jump to conclusions about the fluid replacement (Endura) which was used, I’d keep a couple things in mind: 1.  Endura was used last year at this race, with similar temperatures and conditions, with nowhere near the same number of apparent medical tent casualties (if there in fact was a much higher number); 2.  Apparently there was some kind of virus or beaver fever or something in the drinking water, and as the town had no filtration system, they increased the amount of chlorine to quite a high level, i.e., something approaching pool water (this is what I heard 3rd hand).  I wonder if some smart guy like Mark Jenkins could reply on what a higher amount of chlorine in the water might do (i.e., leach the positive ions, K+, Na+, Ca+, out of one’s system?).  If so, might not this cause a lot of dehydration, along with kidney & liver problems?   QRman (amateur speculation)

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

I got really sick.  In fact, I still am, and not much better than I was ten days ago. I get sinus infections very easily, but this was ridiculous: on the 3rd day of staying in Penticton, I got something in my sinuses (and all we were doing was swimming for 30 min every morning!)  I took some Tylenol but still went into the race a bit sick. Then, in the race, I started feeling really bad in the last 10 miles of the marathon.  I usually finish really strong, but here I really died and was actually falling asleep!  (from exhaustion, I think)  I was very well hydrated, so that was not the problem. After the race, and on the way home to the sunny Bay Area, I felt really exhausted and had to sleep all the time on the planes.  And same thing when I got home: I can’t train and can only eat and sleep (and work). So I think you’re right, Jeffrey: you take 1350 people from all over the globe and 4000 volunteers, put the athletes in a race that really taxes the immune system, and some people (wimps like me) will get sick! Also, I sat in the hot tub after the race, maybe that was a mistake too (and eating ice-cream after the race!) [whining mode off] But I promise I _will_ get well by the time of Hawaii and will kick butt!  Just watch it! [self-encouraging chanting mode off] Kostya Vasilyev                                         swim-bike-run SYMANTEC Corp. Development Tools                        eat- eat -eat (408) 446-7165                                          program in C++

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

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I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice

I was up there in Canada but have no knowledge of anyone getting ill. This doesn’t mean much since I only have personal knowledge of a handful of people. If any of you racing ‘Netters became ill or know of anyone who did, please let me know. I can compile an anonymous list and see if there are any common features. It is not too uncommon for Ironman distance events to have more than their share of viral illnesses. This is basically because of two situations — the large meetings that take place and the transient immunosuppression that occurs following an ultra-distance event. There are over 1300 participants from all over the world and the influx of different viruses into a central location greatly facilitates infection. Nonetheless, I am interested in reports from any of you who are sick. Take care.                                                         Mark A. Jenkins, M.D.                                                         specializing in triathlons,                                                         internal medicine,                                                         and sports medicine.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got a call from the SF Chronicle the other day asking about scores of people getting ill after/during Ironman Canada. I’ve also heard this being talked about in San Diego. I haven’t read anything about this on the Net or anywhere else. Did I miss something? Does anyone know if something like this happened or why? Jeffrey Justice I was up there in Canada but have no knowledge of anyone getting ill. This doesn’t mean much since I only have personal knowledge of a handful of people. If any of you racing ‘Netters became ill or know of anyone who did, please let me know. I can compile an anonymous list and see if there are any common features. It is not too uncommon for Ironman distance events to have more than their share of viral illnesses. This is basically because of two situations — the large meetings that take place and the transient immunosuppression that occurs following an ultra-distance event. There are over 1300 participants from all over the world and the influx of different viruses into a central location greatly facilitates infection. Nonetheless, I am interested in reports from any of you who are sick. Take care.                                                        Mark A. Jenkins, M.D.                                                        specializing in triathlons,                                                        internal medicine,                                                        and sports medicine.

I got sick!! Actually I felt great all during the race.  Kept myself well hydrated and well nourished.  I had a few problems that may have contributed to my sickness though.  About 6 miles into the run I sustained a stress fracture in my right leg.  Had to walk/limp the last 20 miles. I wasn’t tired when I finished and I felt fine apart from the severe pain shooting thru my leg.  That night, approx. 2 – 3 hours after finishing, I started feeling nauseated and vomitted once every hour through out the night.  By about 7:00 a.m. the following morning I was starting to come around and was able to take in some food by 8:00 a.m.  Later that day I was feeling close to normal. I don’t feel as though hydration or heat caused my illness since I was going to the bathroom (clear urine) throughout the race, and I was taking sponges and ice for cooling during the ride and run.   I would be interested in knowing if anyone else got sick. Skeksy | The Tuf Skeks, The Council of Skeksys, Skeksyland |

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