Question:

For years now I have been relatively successful  (marathons in the 3:30 –

3:40 I think that your long run is a bit too fast.  You should be running it at about 9:00 to 9:15 /mile pace.   I would also substitute one of the tempo runs for intervals (800 repeats, building up to 10 at about 3:10-3:15 duration). The problem is that you are coming back from an accident, so all in all – run by ear. : ) SNAILRUNNER – I run therefore I burn calories

Response:

Many won’t agree with my advice but I offer it as an alternate idea.  Fist off, cut your long run down from 23 miles to 18 miles.  I would suggest you do that anyway but since you are recovering from an injury taking the most stressful and least productive training out would be a good idea.  I would wear a couple pairs of socks to slightly decrease the shock of training on fast runs.  I would add a long "ladder" workout in place of your tempo run.  I’d do maybe 1 x 2 mile, 2 x 1 mile and 4 x 1/2mile. for a 6 mile workout plus a half mile warmup and a half mile warmdown.  Two months from your race take the 2 mile out of the ladder and add an easy 3 mile run after but increase the tempo of the intervals.  Enjoy.  Roy

Response:

For years now I have been relatively successful  (marathons in the 3:30 – 3:40 range) with three quality training runs per week: one long run, and two tempo runs.  (If I do any thing else it is usually slow and short.) Seeking opinions on replacing one of the tempo runs with a longer run slightly faster than race pace. Here are the details: LONG RUNS Over the course of about 10 weeks, long runs start at around 1/2 marathon and build up to 23 miles.  I try to get in at least 3 over 20 for each marathon. I try to do these long runs at race pace, but usually settle for about 15-20 seconds slower/mile for the vast majority of the run. TEMPO RUNS 10 mile runs, as follows: 1.5 – 2.0 mile warm-up, followed by 3 miles at an LT (lactate threshold) pace, followed by a 1/2 miles jog, followed by another 3 miles at LT pace, followed by 1.5 – 2.0 cool down jog.  The goal of my LT segments is about 7:00/mile. I have found the addition of these tempo runs has greatly improved my ability to finish the marathon feeling well.  (I think the principle is that by pushing for 20 minutes or so at a comfortably hard pace you increase your ability to delay the lactic acid that builds up when you hit the wall in the marathon.  So you effectively delay the arrival of that proverbial wall.) Anyway, last fall I was struck by a car while jogging (not advisable) and broke my fibula.  Recovery has been a bit slower than I’d like and the hard pounding of tempo runs still cause a bit of pain at the site of the fracture, so I’ve replaced one of them each week with what I call a Cruise run.  This is a 10 miler or so where the vast majority of the miles are consumed consecutively at pace faster than my marathon pace, but considerably slower than the LT pace (7:40 – 45/mile).   So, net, net, if I am shooting for a 3:30 range marathon, my three quality training runs per week would look like this: Long — 8:15 – 8:20 Tempo — 7:00 – 7:10 Cruise — 7:40 – 7:45 Anybody with experience in this kind of training know if I would be compromising much by adding the Cruise day in favor of one of the Tempo days? My body seems to be asking for it.  Thanks for reading this rambling post and for any advice. Karl

Response:

I guess we are different. Your taper strategy would practically reduce me to a non-runner by the time the race rolled around! Seriously, I know from experience that I do best if I just make sure I don’t do anything crazy in the last 3 or 4 days before a marathon. If I taper for a really long time, and avoid the exact type of running that the race is all about, I will get soft, come race time. I’m running a half marathon ‘full out’, 3 weeks before my full marathon. I believe this will help me tremendously, not hinder me. My last LSD run will be about 8 – 10 days before the full ‘thon (about 17 – 18 miles), and I’ll do 2 marathon-pace runs of 10 – 13 miles in length in the final week. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may be enough time to recover, but it may not be optimal.  More importantly, what would one lose by doing a half this close to a full?  Assuming you are doing an all-out effort, this would involve some sort of a taper before and recovery after.  Optimally about 2 weeks on either side.  I strongly believe that there are better ways to prepare during the final weeks before the marathon (i.e., speed at high intensities, LT workouts, power workouts, etc.) than doing a relatively low intensity race at a speed that is below lactate threshold and which limits one’s ability to engage in other more potent preparatory workouts.

Response:

I was curious as to the basis for these comments. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -People taper too much. In the middle of marathon training you are used to piling heavy workouts on top of one-another. A major benefit of this is your ability to recover improves dramatically. Take the day before the half as a rest day, take the 2 days after as easy days. Your performance may not be optimal, but it will be good, it will give you a good guide to your marathon performance, and it will be better than any training session you could do instead. IanB. It may be enough time to recover, but it may not be optimal.  More importantly, what would one lose by doing a half this close to a full?  Assuming you are doing an all-out effort, this would involve some sort of a taper before and recovery after.  Optimally about 2 weeks on either side.  I strongly believe that there are better ways to prepare during the final weeks before the marathon (i.e., speed at high intensities, LT workouts, power workouts, etc.) than doing a relatively low intensity race at a speed that is below lactate threshold and which limits one’s ability to engage in other more potent preparatory workouts.

Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

Response:

Experience, knowledge and heresay. I’m coming mainly from a track background, but all the principals hold true. There are maybe 2 races in the whole year that are the main targets. For these you taper probably the preceeding 2 weeks and take an easy week after. All the rest are about practicing for the main event – be it pace, tactics, routine or pain, all have to be practiced. When in heavy training, one rest day is enough to get you to the line fired up. Chances are the race encompasses at least 2 of your usual weekly workouts, so you can take those days easy next week, and you’re recovered. I don’t claim to have all the answers. I usually run my best races too early in the season and run out of steam by the end. But if you ask me, that’s down to too many easy days/weeks leading up to races in the middle of the season. If I trained through more, I would probably hold form better throughout the season. IanB – and a taper shouldn’t just be easy running. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was curious as to the basis for these comments. Ken People taper too much. In the middle of marathon training you are used to piling heavy workouts on top of one-another. A major benefit of this is your ability to recover improves dramatically. Take the day before the half as a rest day, take the 2 days after as easy days. Your performance may not be optimal, but it will be good, it will give you a good guide to your marathon performance, and it will be better than any training session you could do instead.

Response:

Well, my slant on things is not mainstream, but it is based on science and not tradition.  I tend to be a skeptic when it comes to science, but it’s hard to ignore some of the data and the "local" knowledge base that’s being accumulated by the Kenyans.  Countless Kenyans have been interviewed and can’t understand the fascination with long runs late in a marathon training sequence.  Their comment is often apparently "Why would I want to do another long run close to the race–I already know how to run long!?"  And they know they’ll retain that ability.  I’m not saying anyone’s wrong or right, but the research supports a 4 week pre-marathon taper.  If strength-building has been a key part of your training regimen, you may be able to get away with a three week taper.  The scientific findings are that muscle biopsies of marathon runners have consistently shown that it takes 4 weeks to recover from the extensive cellular level muscle damage that are inccurred during the marathon prep long runs (anything longer than 11-12 miles).  This is damage that can’t be felt but is there.  So, many runners show up at the starting line incompletely recovered.  In any case, the 4 week taper is contrary to the current widely accepted narrative that 3 weeks is optimal.  People fear that they will lose their ability to run long.  Not the case.  In fact, studies have shown that long run ability is retained for up to 17 weeks after a marathon.  Furthermore, the flip-side is how much better one might have done if a 4 as opposed to 3 week taper had been followed. Remember the Zatopek effect?  Tapering isn’t a bad thing; it will not make you "go soft."  The key during the last month is to lower mileage, maintain intensity and emphasize the development of explosive power.  Tapering and the way it is managed is key to performance at every distance.  The marathon is not just an endurance event but a power event.  It is critical that speed, strength and power and not just high mileage/long runs be worked into a schedule. Remember, intensity is the most potent producer of fitness–at all distances.  So I think an all out half is a mistake in the last 4 weeks (and inappropriate 6 weeks out, too, unless it is done as a marathon pace workout).  As I have indicated previously, it sucks up too much in the way of other more productive workouts at levels of intensity above LT. I think that if you do all this heavy training right before the race, your performance will not be optimal, but doing it and achieving success may convince you that it is optimal and reassure you going in.  Still, with a longer taper, I would have to think you would likely be even more successful.  It’s been said that even the Kenyans could probably taper more and do better (scary thought!). Good luck!  Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess we are different. Your taper strategy would practically reduce me to a non-runner by the time the race rolled around! Seriously, I know from experience that I do best if I just make sure I don’t do anything crazy in the last 3 or 4 days before a marathon. If I taper for a really long time, and avoid the exact type of running that the race is all about, I will get soft, come race time. I’m running a half marathon ‘full out’, 3 weeks before my full marathon. I believe this will help me tremendously, not hinder me. My last LSD run will be about 8 – 10 days before the full ‘thon (about 17 – 18 miles), and I’ll do 2 marathon-pace runs of 10 – 13 miles in length in the final week. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – It may be enough time to recover, but it may not be optimal.  More importantly, what would one lose by doing a half this close to a full?  Assuming you are doing an all-out effort, this would involve some sort of a taper before and recovery after.  Optimally about 2 weeks on either side.  I strongly believe that there are better ways to prepare during the final weeks before the marathon (i.e., speed at high intensities, LT workouts, power workouts, etc.) than doing a relatively low intensity race at a speed that is below lactate threshold and which limits one’s ability to engage in other more potent preparatory workouts.

Response:

Hello- Hello, I’ve been following a marathon training schedule for the Oct 21 Columbus Marathon. My goal is 3:20 (7:37 pace) and I have a few questions. I have a half-marathon on Sept 9th (6 weeks before my goal race) at what pace should I run this?

I think you’ve got 2 choices depending on your objectives :     – if 1/2 if an objective, decrease training the last week before and run it for a good time. For the next week, consider your 1/2 as a tempo run.     – if marathon is the only goal, the 1/2 can be a good occasion to know what your marathon could be. What you need is to start your marathon in the same conditions you will be after your first half on Oct 21. To achieve this, you just need to run a tempo workout on Oct 9th, and then run your 1/2 at your marathon pace. By the end, you can figure out how you will get thru the 26.2 miles. I have a 30k scheduled for Sept 30th  (3 weeks before my goal race) at what pace should I run this?

Huhu. For my point of view, that’s a big event during marathon training. I won’t run this… If you do, forget the competition, consider it as a long run, and run it that pace. And don’t look to the results In the past 12 weeks I have put in the following mileage  52, 54, 66, 53, 62, 53, 31, 50, 58, 34, 60, 61.

Big mileage. Do you recover enough ? Mileage is not the key to achievement. Think quality first. My weekly long runs, in the past 12 weeks,  have been 10, 13, 15, 16, 17, 10, 10, 15, 19, 12, 20, 21.

Feel Looong. I never go for more than 15 miles. Good luck. Al.

Response:

I’ve been following a marathon training schedule for the Oct 21 Columbus Marathon. My goal is 3:20 (7:37 pace) and I have a few questions. I have a half-marathon on Sept 9th (6 weeks before my goal race) at what pace should I run this?

I would try to do this at your planned marathon pace.  I think it’s too close to your marathon to go all out I have a 30k scheduled for Sept 30th  (3 weeks before my goal race) at what pace should I run this?

I wouldn’t run it–research shows we need 4 weeks to recover from runs this long; if you run this far, you’ll likely not be fully recovered from the muscle damage incurred by the time of your big race.  It’s risky to do anything more that 11-12 miles during the last month.  Instead, work on tapering, maintaining aerobic fitness, and developing power. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the past 12 weeks I have put in the following mileage  52, 54, 66, 53, 62, 53, 31, 50, 58, 34, 60, 61. My weekly long runs, in the past 12 weeks,  have been 10, 13, 15, 16, 17, 10, 10, 15, 19, 12, 20, 21. Recent races have been :         May 6 – marathon = 3:33:49 (8:10 pace)         May 26 – 10k = 42:51 (6;54 pace)         June 16 – 5k = 20:44 (6:41 pace)         July 18 – 5k = 20:40 (6:40 pace)         July 28 – 5 m = 33:57 (6:47 pace)         Aug 5 – 7m = 49:14 (7:02 pace – very disappointing)         Aug 11 – 5k = 19:58 (6:26 pace)

Amazingly, your times are almost exactly what mine are.  It predicts that you should be able to run 3:20.  I was never able to (pr = 3:22).  But that doesn’t mean you won’t.  Practice your drinking strategy during training, go out slow, aim for negative splits.  The marathon is a power event.  The literature is now indicating that for optimum performance, we need to engage in neural training–strength, power (various circuit exercises, hill work, plyometrics, etc.); in addition, fast running is key;  looks like you’re doing that with your races; doing speedwork improves economy, along with vV02max and lactate threshold; as these improve, marathon pace is aggrandized as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s some specific additional info on my last 5 weeks of  training: Dates           Weekly Miles    Long Run and Pace               Speed and Tempo Work                                                         7 mile race

Question:

Hi, I’ve got a dilemma because I would like to incorporate running, swimming, and lifting together in my training.I’m still in the early stages  my fitness regiment (6 months). I only want to train 5 days a week because I want to get proper rest, So I am not sure which days I should do each activity or what combination I should do on a given day. I’m trying to schedule my program so I don’t do too much and then quit. Currently I run 30 minutes 3 days a week and lift weights on the other 2. I am 6 ft tall and weigh 180 #’s. Any hints would be helpful. mark

Response:

Run 3 days a week, swim 2 and lift 5 days a weak, lower intensity, before/after the cardio. Good luck, Rafael Guerra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve got a dilemma because I would like to incorporate running, swimming, and lifting together in my training.I’m still in the early stages  my fitness regiment (6 months). I only want to train 5 days a week because I want to get proper rest, So I am not sure which days I should do each activity or what combination I should do on a given day. I’m trying to schedule my program so I don’t do too much and then quit. Currently I run 30 minutes 3 days a week and lift weights on the other 2. I am 6 ft tall and weigh 180 #’s. Any hints would be helpful. mark

Response:

Talk to me or to any triathlete and we’ll tell you how we do it. The short answer: experiment to find what works for you and be very alert for the symptoms of overtraining. Long answer: If you can have more than one block of time in which to train during any given day, it makes things easier.  For example, you can run in the morning and swim in the afternoon. I’ve found that anything less than three days/week at any individual activity doesn’t seem to allow me to make much progress.  If you’re not after a speciific fitness goal, twice a week might be fine for you, and if you’re really lifting very heavy weights, then twice a week might also be fine, but for most people, three times/week ought to be the minimum you schedule any one activity if you want to make progress at it. There are many ways to train at the three activities you’ve chosen, and your preferences make a difference in how you should schedule them. E.g., if running for you is a fairly casual thing, you know, you want to be out there for 30 minutes but you’re not worried about how far you go or how fast, then you can do it right after you weightlift.  On the other hand, if you’re trying to set a personal best at 5k, you’ll probably find your legs are too tired to run your best. There are simply too many variables to make any more specific suggestions without knowing what your goals are and what your thoughts are on how you’d like to achieve them.  But it *can* be done.  I run 3 days/week, swim 3 days/week, cycle 2 days/week but also commute on a bike, and lift 6 days/week (but a carefully conceived and executed lifting program). -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve got a dilemma because I would like to incorporate running, swimming, and lifting together in my training.I’m still in the early stages  my fitness regiment (6 months). I only want to train 5 days a week because I want to get proper rest, So I am not sure which days I should do each activity or what combination I should do on a given day. I’m trying to schedule my program so I don’t do too much and then quit. Currently I run 30 minutes 3 days a week and lift weights on the other 2. I am 6 ft tall and weigh 180 #’s. Any hints would be helpful. mark

Response:

Question:

Sam – I haven’t read anything on the subject, so thanks for your insight.  I was only reporting what I experienced.  No cramps and a great race.  Like I said.  I have no idea if the stuff made a difference.  For some reason, I felt good and had a great race.  If it gave me a psychological rather than physiological lift then it was probably some use.  However, you have made me think twice and I might not bother in Australia.  We’ll see what my buddies report from IMNZ. One thought though, if something helps at maximal effort then is it still assisting (somewhat) at lower levels of effort?  If it helps recovery after max effort then might it assist recovery after, say, blasting over a hill? I’d be interested in your thoughts. gordo

Response:

So what sort of squats do you recommend? This has got to be one of the least understood exercises around, both in terms of benefit and technique. Where do you put the bar? How far apart should your feet be? And how low should you go? There is a marked difference in the way your legs are hit between a powerlifting style and a "high-bar" style of squat.

This is what I do.  A very traditional type of squat.  Never more than 90 degrees.  I actually try to hit 100 degrees but normally go a little past. The key thing for me is slow at the bottom to avoid shock loading the knees. Some people squat down to a bench.  I would NEVER do this as slipping or misjudgement could result in serious back injury. Feet about shoulder width apart (sometimes a little wider, sometimes a little narrower for variety) Pelvis twisted forward and down, very important for proper form.  Back dead straight.  Bar moves straight up and down, no forward or backward movement. Helps to have mirror in front and at the side for good technique.  Basically it is close to a blocking stance (if you played American football). Start light until you get the hang.  Most people have a problem with balance and/or back/pelvis alignment at the start.  A spotter who knows what he’s doing can really help. It’s not so much that squats in themselves hurt your endurance, it’s just that they can fatigue your muscles (that is my muscles) so much that it can be very hard to do aerobic work for several days afterwards.

Drop the weight, increase the reps.  You have to work up to more weight very, very slowly.  I always err on the side of caution. I hope this helps, gordo

Response:

DOES ANYONE HAVE INFORMATION REGARDING TRAINING WITH CRETINE, CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU HAVE NOTICED ANY POSSITIVE OR NEGITIVE FINDINGS!                                                           THANK YOU    DEL!

Response:

DO YOU MEAN CREATINE ? LW my capslock must be sticking !! — Curloo Bicycles web:     http://www.curloo.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DOES ANYONE HAVE INFORMATION REGARDING TRAINING WITH CRETINE, CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU HAVE NOTICED ANY POSSITIVE OR NEGITIVE FINDINGS!                                                           THANK YOU DEL!

Response:

DO YOU MEAN CREATINE ? LW my capslock must be sticking !! — Curloo Bicycles

Or CRETIN perhaps? — Baker Atlas GEOScience      Tel: +44 (0)208 202 2433 154 Brent Street,           FAX: +44 (0)208 202 2287 London, NW4 2DR, ENGLAND.   WWW: http://www.zands.com

Response:

Del – Newsgroup tip.  Regular letters are OK. I don’t know any triathletes that use creatine for training.  However, my swim coach and his fiance used it before IMOz to load up.  They had great races and she broke the record for her AG. So when I went to IMH, I figured what the heck and gave it a try.  I had a great race.  She loaded up again and had a crappy race.  Not very scientific, I know.  I would probably use it again but doubt that it is very effective.  Still, it gives me something to do during the last week of the taper and doesn’t seem to hurt. I wouldn’t bother using it during the season because I am getting good enough strength results without it.  [Closing in on body weight squat sets] Good luck, gordo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Del – Newsgroup tip.  Regular letters are OK. I don’t know any triathletes that use creatine for training.  However, my swim coach and his fiance used it before IMOz to load up.  They had great races and she broke the record for her AG. So when I went to IMH, I figured what the heck and gave it a try.  I had a great race.  She loaded up again and had a crappy race.  Not very scientific, I know.  I would probably use it again but doubt that it is very effective.  Still, it gives me something to do during the last week of the taper and doesn’t seem to hurt. I wouldn’t bother using it during the season because I am getting good enough strength results without it.  [Closing in on body weight squat sets] Good luck, gordo

Creatine seems to be good for: Maximum strength training Interval training (short recovery) Improvement in performance measured against resistance/weights. Creatine seems bad because: You are going to get cramps – I don’t care what the creatine-hypers say, but endurance athletes experience a much increased incidence in cramps, especially in the legs! You will put on weight.(~7#) Does absolutely nothing for endurance. You will pee more and generally find it harder (in the early weeks anyway) to maintain optimal hydration. You may not be able to get into your tighter fitting clothes. I do however think that creatine can be useful in the off-season if you want to work on strength or want to really push your aerobic system with intense interval training. The most marked effects seem to be on vegetarians! P.S. How on earth do you manage to work squatting into your training? I have always found squats and endurance leg work to be mutually detrimental. — Baker Atlas GEOScience      Tel: +44 (0)208 202 2433 154 Brent Street,           FAX: +44 (0)208 202 2287 London, NW4 2DR, ENGLAND.   WWW: http://www.zands.com

Response:

…. Still, it gives me something to do during the last week of the taper and doesn’t seem to hurt.

Well, I’ve tried it, and I don’t think I’ll go there again. I experienced severe cramping everywhere (watching my intestines cramp & stick out scared the hell out of me) and I couldn’t adequately control my hydration levels when using it. I’d drink all the time and be peeing like a horse, and still end up badly dehydrated (no doubt contributing to the severe cramps). At the time, I was in competition training — 2 sessions a day in hot weather. Probably not a good recipe for using it. IMHO, I don’t think it’s compatible with endurance training. — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Del – Newsgroup tip.  Regular letters are OK. I don’t know any triathletes that use creatine for training.  However, my swim coach and his fiance used it before IMOz to load up.  They had great races and she broke the record for her AG. So when I went to IMH, I figured what the heck and gave it a try.  I had a great race.  She loaded up again and had a crappy race.  Not very scientific, I know.  I would probably use it again but doubt that it is very effective.  Still, it gives me something to do during the last week of the taper and doesn’t seem to hurt. I wouldn’t bother using it during the season because I am getting good enough strength results without it.  [Closing in on body weight squat sets] Good luck, gordo

Response:

How on earth do you manage to work squatting into your training? I have always found squats and endurance leg work to be mutually detrimental.

 a proper resistance training program, (emphasize proper) designed around your current endurance training program yeilds amazing results for off season fitness buildup.  Legs are my most important session as later on on the season I convert that added strength for both bike and run fitness.  Schedule legs on a day that you will not ride the next, just go for an easy run or swim to help recover from the previous days weight workout.  Once your body adapts it wont feel as taxing. Legs are a must! creatine worked well for me, I used CellTech with great results. Never ever had ANY cramps, weight gain is in not in fat, so dont worry much about that, if you do alot of endurance training it will be minimal.

Response:

Hello Gordo How on earth do you manage to work squatting into your training? I have always found squats and endurance leg work to be mutually detrimental. Ah yes, squats.  I love them.  I guess it depends on what kind of weight you are pushing and where you are in the year.  Right now I am at 145lbs 3×15. I am hardly going to turn into a hulking maniac with that limited strength. Back when I was powerlifting I was doing much lower reps, way more sets and pushing a lot more weight.  Back then I would agree 100% with you that the powerlifting is crappy for speed endurance.  However, I could carry a 75lb rucksack around all day long and not get tired.

So what sort of squats do you recommend? This has got to be one of the least understood exercises around, both in terms of benefit and technique. Where do you put the bar? How far apart should your feet be? And how low should you go? There is a marked difference in the way your legs are hit between a powerlifting style and a "high-bar" style of squat. With sets of 12-15 reps, I doubt you are going to lose much endurance, particularly if you keep riding.  I also think that the extra leg strength will reduce the likelihood of a leg injury.  Who knows?  The proof will be in the pudding on April 9th when I race IMOz.  That will be the first test of my winter weights strategy.  A lot of the tri-literature (Serious, Tri Bible, Dave Scott’s Tri Training, Endurance Edge) are pretty pro-weights in the off-season.  My weakness is the bike.  I want to ride faster, with less fatigue.  So my winter plan is to build power and focus on spinning for my long rides.  Once I start using the big chain ring in the spring, we’ll see what happens. All the best, gordo "and the weightlifting makes you look great too" byrn

It’s not so much that squats in themselves hurt your endurance, it’s just that they can fatigue your muscles (that is my muscles) so much that it can be very hard to do aerobic work for several days afterwards. — Baker Atlas GEOScience      Tel: +44 (0)208 202 2433 154 Brent Street,           FAX: +44 (0)208 202 2287 London, NW4 2DR, ENGLAND.   WWW: http://www.zands.com

Response:

Gordo, you might want to read some of the exercise lit (not the stuff the manufacturers put out). Creatine increases total phosphocreatine in the body (by almost all accounts there is a maximum of about 160 mg per kg dry weight in the muscle); however, this energy source is only utilized in maximal or supramaximal efforts.  The extra water (if that is true and no one has proven it yet) is not available for thermoregulation.  The osmotic pressure in the cells seems to be too great.  Several studies have had subjects use creatine and then stop.  They keep the weight for a while which, if it is water, means that it is not readily available for other functions.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Thomas – I have heard the same thing as you state below.  However, I didn’t experience the cramps, nor did my buddies (maybe we should race harder). The weight I put on was water and I don’t mind having extra water and ATP on board at the start of a long race.  I only used it for the race and not during the season.  It would be a hassle to train with the stuff.  Still, I have never heard a triathlete complain about being too strong. My desoto skinsuit is nice and stretchy so being a little bigger was not an issue. Once last thought.  If it speeds recovery then it might be useful as you can get back to more endurance training faster. Creatine seems bad because: You are going to get cramps – I don’t care what the creatine-hypers say, but endurance athletes experience a much increased incidence in cramps, especially in the legs! You will put on weight.(~7#) Does absolutely nothing for endurance. You will pee more and generally find it harder (in the early weeks anyway) to maintain optimal hydration. You may not be able to get into your tighter fitting clothes. How on earth do you manage to work squatting into your training? I have always found squats and endurance leg work to be mutually detrimental. Ah yes, squats.  I love them.  I guess it depends on what kind of weight you are pushing and where you are in the year.  Right now I am at 145lbs 3×15. I am hardly going to turn into a hulking maniac with that limited strength. Back when I was powerlifting I was doing much lower reps, way more sets and pushing a lot more weight.  Back then I would agree 100% with you that the powerlifting is crappy for speed endurance.  However, I could carry a 75lb rucksack around all day long and not get tired. With sets of 12-15 reps, I doubt you are going to lose much endurance, particularly if you keep riding.  I also think that the extra leg strength will reduce the likelihood of a leg injury.  Who knows?  The proof will be in the pudding on April 9th when I race IMOz.  That will be the first test of my winter weights strategy.  A lot of the tri-literature (Serious, Tri Bible, Dave Scott’s Tri Training, Endurance Edge) are pretty pro-weights in the off-season.  My weakness is the bike.  I want to ride faster, with less fatigue.  So my winter plan is to build power and focus on spinning for my long rides.  Once I start using the big chain ring in the spring, we’ll see what happens. All the best, gordo "and the weightlifting makes you look great too" byrn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .  just follow a safe program, get off the stuff come springtime, and pay close attention to hydrating yourself. you’ll gain a bit of weight quickly (probably water) and if you stick to it you’ll gain some in muscle too.  i wouldn’t be too scared of this stuff. at the same time, though, don’t go buy a 5 lb jar of it — experiment with a little of it, see how you work with it, and go from there. I cannot stress enough the first sentence above. If anything, OVER hydrate if you are planning on using creatine. I am sure that everyone has heard of the wrestlers that died using creatine. This is due to the dehydration factor. They were loading a lot of creatine, and then "sweating" and all the other things that they do to make weight (Come in under a certain weight to wrestle in a class). Creatine helps dehydrate the body (Hence the "ripped" look), and puts a hell of a stress on the kidneys in larger amounts. If you don’t pay attention, you can run into some problems.

        Creatine played a minor role, if any, in the deaths of the collegiate wrestlers.  In fact, it was not proven that all of them were using creatine.  The athletes were all using extreme measures to lose weight fast such as exercising in a sauna in a rubber suit without drinking water or eating.     Creatine possibly does increase the water retention in the muscle due to the osmotics and this water is not available for thermoregulation.         On task, I would not recommend creatine for endurance athletes except maybe in the case of those who do not eat meat.     Creatine itself will not do a lot to increase strength unless you are doing some weight training.  It seems that creatine can increase the total amount of work you are able to do in a strength training or sprint type training session.  There are several reviews in the scientific literature that a lay person can understand.  Ira Jacobs has one in a very recent issue of Canadian Journal of Applied Physiology. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used creatine for a while with no ill effects, and did notice a muscle/strength increase, but with an addition of a layer of fat as well. I didn’t like the overall effect (Personally) and don’t use it anymore… YMMV John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"

Response:

Some thoughts from some ultrarunners can be found here http://www.fred.net/ultrunr/creatine.html

Response:

.  just follow a safe program, get off the stuff come springtime, and pay close attention to hydrating yourself. you’ll gain a bit of weight quickly (probably water) and if you stick to it you’ll gain some in muscle too.  i wouldn’t be too scared of this stuff.  at the same time, though, don’t go buy a 5 lb jar of it — experiment with a little of it, see how you work with it, and go from there.

I cannot stress enough the first sentence above. If anything, OVER hydrate if you are planning on using creatine. I am sure that everyone has heard of the wrestlers that died using creatine. This is due to the dehydration factor. They were loading a lot of creatine, and then "sweating" and all the other things that they do to make weight (Come in under a certain weight to wrestle in a class). Creatine helps dehydrate the body (Hence the "ripped" look), and puts a hell of a stress on the kidneys in larger amounts. If you don’t pay attention, you can run into some problems. I used creatine for a while with no ill effects, and did notice a muscle/strength increase, but with an addition of a layer of fat as well. I didn’t like the overall effect (Personally) and don’t use it anymore… YMMV John "Ad astra per aspera" "A rough road leads to the stars"

Response:

Hi Thomas – I have heard the same thing as you state below.  However, I didn’t experience the cramps, nor did my buddies (maybe we should race harder). The weight I put on was water and I don’t mind having extra water and ATP on board at the start of a long race.  I only used it for the race and not during the season.  It would be a hassle to train with the stuff.  Still, I have never heard a triathlete complain about being too strong. My desoto skinsuit is nice and stretchy so being a little bigger was not an issue. Once last thought.  If it speeds recovery then it might be useful as you can get back to more endurance training faster. Creatine seems bad because: You are going to get cramps – I don’t care what the creatine-hypers say, but endurance athletes experience a much increased incidence in cramps, especially in the legs! You will put on weight.(~7#) Does absolutely nothing for endurance. You will pee more and generally find it harder (in the early weeks anyway) to maintain optimal hydration. You may not be able to get into your tighter fitting clothes. How on earth do you manage to work squatting into your training? I have always found squats and endurance leg work to be mutually detrimental.

Ah yes, squats.  I love them.  I guess it depends on what kind of weight you are pushing and where you are in the year.  Right now I am at 145lbs 3×15. I am hardly going to turn into a hulking maniac with that limited strength. Back when I was powerlifting I was doing much lower reps, way more sets and pushing a lot more weight.  Back then I would agree 100% with you that the powerlifting is crappy for speed endurance.  However, I could carry a 75lb rucksack around all day long and not get tired. With sets of 12-15 reps, I doubt you are going to lose much endurance, particularly if you keep riding.  I also think that the extra leg strength will reduce the likelihood of a leg injury.  Who knows?  The proof will be in the pudding on April 9th when I race IMOz.  That will be the first test of my winter weights strategy.  A lot of the tri-literature (Serious, Tri Bible, Dave Scott’s Tri Training, Endurance Edge) are pretty pro-weights in the off-season.  My weakness is the bike.  I want to ride faster, with less fatigue.  So my winter plan is to build power and focus on spinning for my long rides.  Once I start using the big chain ring in the spring, we’ll see what happens. All the best, gordo "and the weightlifting makes you look great too" byrn

Response:

i think it’s alright if you’re looking to work on your strength over the winter.  i’ve done a fair deal of research on it and can guarantee that it does nothing for endurance (it’s a product of the ATP cycle and isn’t used at all in submaximal effort).  however, i tried it an immediately added pounds to my max weights in every exercise in my weight routine.  just follow a safe program, get off the stuff come springtime, and pay close attention to hydrating yourself. you’ll gain a bit of weight quickly (probably water) and if you stick to it you’ll gain some in muscle too.  i wouldn’t be too scared of this stuff.  at the same time, though, don’t go buy a 5 lb jar of it — experiment with a little of it, see how you work with it, and go from there. mike

Response:

Question:

Ran the annual New York Road Runner’s Valentine’s 5K in Central Park. It was cold and windy, but fun. And they gave each finisher a rose. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for those who participated in valentine’s day race in washington, dc.. happy valentine’s day..  and for those who are not in dc, are/were there any valentine’s day races around the country/globe?  the one in washington was 5 miles..  and it was a good race.. and i think i might have broken my PR.. but the stupid computer crashed and i won’t know the official time until sometime later this week..  will wait and see.. won

  vcard.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

I think that there is (there was?) a Valentine race in Rome (Italy) for couples to be run "in contact" (not sure, I think it is hand-by-hand). Distance about 5Km, I think. Never run but I’ve been told it’s big fun; I don’t think I shall try tough being my r.o. ex-200/400m hi-school runner now jogging and looking forward for coming back to 5/10Km run (race?) and me a triathlete and marathoner looking forward to move to ultras. I wouldn’t like to be pulled for 5Km by my r.o. ;^) better just either taking her times from a bike or getting water from her with she on a bike. Stefano

Response:

1/2 marathon in san diego  that day.san dieguito half marathon.

Response:

for those who participated in valentine’s day race in washington, dc.. happy valentine’s day..  and for those who are not in dc, are/were there any valentine’s day races around the country/globe?  the one in washington was 5 miles..  and it was a good race.. and i think i might have broken my PR.. but the stupid computer crashed and i won’t know the official time until sometime later this week..  will wait and see.. won

Response:

are/were there any valentine’s day races around the country/globe?

We did the Frosty 5K in Newport RI.  Mostly a fun run, but good course.  A good hill between miles 1 & 2 then downhill all the way home. I did 8:58 miles, which is good for me, but not the best I’ve done. Andy La Varre **** Join the fight against spam!             details at http://www.cauce.org

Response:

Question:

Try Kroser-Keystone hospital (I think that is the name).

And if you find one, be sure to tell Madeleine! Mike "TriBop" Tennent http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/ WebRunner Running My Model Railroad ‘98 Ironman Canada IronVirgins Site

Response:

: Try Kroser-Keystone hospital (I think that is the name). That would, I think, be Crosier-Keystone. : And if you find one, be sure to tell Madeleine! Yup, seconded! Madeleine "the NH and I are putting on weight" Page

Response:

Fellowships in sports medicine can be done after completing a residency in orthopedic surgery, or Internal Medicine, or Pediatrics and even Family Medicine.  I agree that orthopedics is only a minor part of sports medicine and actually a part we hope to avoid with good prevention.

Response:

I forgot to mention that there is a national professional organization representing sports medicine physicians.  I am sure they can put you in contact with some one in your area.  If you can’t find their web site or contact them let me know i’m sure I can get it with a little footwork.

Response:

Try Kroser-Keystone hospital (I think that is the name). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I’m looking for a new primary care physician since my previous doctor’s office closed recently.  Since I’m very involved with sports (I spend lots of hours training for triathlon), I would feel much more comfortable if I could find a physician who specializes in sports (sports/exercise physiolgy as well as internal/general medicine in a sports context). I’d like to get the kind of checkups and care that is given by team physicians to athletes such as professional cyclists or marathon runners.  I’d be interested in physicians who are familar also with VO2 max testing, lactate testing, etc.   Please send any recommendations for such physicians who are located in the Philadelphia,PA and Delaware Valley area.  Thanks. Andy Ross   PS One obstacle in finding such a doctor has been the label ‘Sports Medicine’   which seems to be synonomous with orthopedic medicine.  There is certainly   more to an athlete’s health than treating orthopedic injuries!

Response:

   I’m looking for a new primary care physician since my previous doctor’s office closed recently.  Since I’m very involved with sports (I spend lots of hours training for triathlon), I would feel much more comfortable if I could find a physician who specializes in sports (sports/exercise physiolgy as well as internal/general medicine in a sports context). I’d like to get the kind of checkups and care that is given by team physicians to athletes such as professional cyclists or marathon runners.  I’d be interested in physicians who are familar also with VO2 max testing, lactate testing, etc.    Please send any recommendations for such physicians who are located in the Philadelphia,PA and Delaware Valley area.  Thanks. Andy Ross    PS One obstacle in finding such a doctor has been the label ‘Sports Medicine’    which seems to be synonomous with orthopedic medicine.  There is certainly    more to an athlete’s health than treating orthopedic injuries!

Response:

Question:

Add Tom "The Pukester" Cunningham to the list. My first full IM and I am psyched.  I don’t know whether I am more psyched to race or just to start the taper.  Anyhow, I fly in on Thursday, early afternoon, and then have to figure a way from the SF airport to the Ramada in Santa Rosa. Anyone know the best way to get there? (I don’t want to rent a car if I can avoid it).  Also, anyone know how far it is from the Ramada to race start? -pukey

 Pukey, There is a bus that comes to Santa Rosa from the airport which is creatively named the "Airporter."  The number is 707-545-8015.  A couple of my friends who are professional cyclists use it fairly often so I am sure they can accomdate your bike.  Enjoy your trip to Sonoma County, home of some the best cycling in the world (hey, who says I am biased). Jim Ross Kendall-Jackson/Ibis Racing President, Sonoma County Cycling Association

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I’ll be there for the 1/2. Hope to put Wildflower debacle behind me, and put a good training day in for IMC. See you at the races! Look for Daisey the wonder dog!

Response:

I’m going for my first IM, and I have never been so excited for anything before.  My car has malfunctioned this summer, so this will also be my first race of the season.  BTW, I haven’t recieved my race info packet yet.  Should I have? The Bertha Gary P. Chimes MD/PhD Student

Response:

I’ll be there for the 1/2. Hope to put Wildflower debacle behind me, and put a good training day in for IMC. See you at the races! Look for Daisey the wonder dog! -Chris Mueller..

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I’ll be making the trek up from SoCal for my first 1/2 Ironman.  Will be staying at the Ramada. Ron Urman

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My packet arrived yesterday (Monday July 7).  The replacement fluid is something called Race Day that I’ve never heard of before.  Guess we’ll see. tc

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A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else? Tri-Baby

I’ll be there for the Half. Jeff.

Response:

Add Tom "The Pukester" Cunningham to the list. My first full IM and I am psyched.  I don’t know whether I am more psyched to race or just to start the taper.  Anyhow, I fly in on Thursday, early afternoon, and then have to figure a way from the SF airport to the Ramada in Santa Rosa.   Anyone know the best way to get there? (I don’t want to rent a car if I can avoid it).  Also, anyone know how far it is from the Ramada to race start? -pukey

Response:

A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

I’ll be there for the half-IM on Saturday and the officials clinic on Sunday.  This is gonna be a blast! The Carmel Group "Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win."  R.A.H.

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me too! doing the 1/2. -Jan Hobbel

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Color me in that picture too. I’ll be there with hope and fire and maybe even a little bit of fitness. It will be my first California Tri so I hope to see what all the fuss is about. Treemoss2 (Ken Lotze)

Response:

A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Who else?

Me. Lee Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

Response:

A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else?

Me!  I’m volunteering–most likely at the swim section–see you iron animals there! Melanie Mociun – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else? Tri-Baby

I’ll be there for the full Vineman. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

Response:

My taper will be an 11hr flight on the Thursday*, I’ll be driving up from SF on Friday and I’m staying at the Ramada until Sunday. I get the impression a lot of RSTers will be there, so who am I going to meet?

TriBaby will be there for her final race before the IMC taper begins! Looking to defend her ‘96 Women’s Clydesdale championship in the half IM. See you there! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my big day out this year. I’ve put my $80 on the line and I’m hauling my bike and wetsuit across the pond to complete my first 1/2IM. Nothing like turning up to the conference a day later feeling totally wasted. My employers think this is a business trip – well my quest to do a 1/2IM is unfinished business… My taper will be an 11hr flight on the Thursday*, I’ll be driving up from SF on Friday and I’m staying at the Ramada until Sunday. I get the impression a lot of RSTers will be there, so who am I going to meet? Looking forward to it, Joel

The money hasn’t been committed, the heart continues to race, the mind wonders, "Will I make it out of the water?" The ride, Oh, Yes the ride..what happens after the ride! Ouch! 13.1 used to be a cake walk..now it appears as though this could be the end! Wavering, but probably going to be there.. Third weekend in a row of races…no tapering

Response:

This is my big day out this year. I’ve put my $80 on the line and I’m hauling my bike and wetsuit across the pond to complete my first 1/2IM. Nothing like turning up to the conference a day later feeling totally wasted. My employers think this is a business trip – well my quest to do a 1/2IM is unfinished business… My taper will be an 11hr flight on the Thursday*, I’ll be driving up from SF on Friday and I’m staying at the Ramada until Sunday. I get the impression a lot of RSTers will be there, so who am I going to meet? I’m easily identified, I’ll be the pale skinned one with the English accent in a sea of tanned Californian Tri-gods. I mean, they’ll be people there, who, well, have like *done* IMH (iamnotworthyiamnotworthy). I’ll probably be standing looking upwards wondering what that big bright hot thing in the sky is, and why I’m not getting wet. Looking forward to it, Joel

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hopefully, someone out there can give me some good advice.  I did the Walt Disney marathon Jan 5th.  I had trained for 16 weeks, ave. about 35-45 miles per week, with the traditional once a week long run from 12-20 miles.  I ran the race in 4:17, and felt relatively good.  Difficulty from mile 19 on, only walking about a quarter mile at 23, plus through the water stops to make sure I drank.    I drank 2 cups of water, and 1 cup of powerade (yuck) each stop (there were 20).  Plus a gel packet every 4 miles.  I was well hydrated to  start the race.  My problems started about 1 hour post race.  I vomited several times, and was feeling very confused.  Unfortunately, the medical tent let me escape, without fluids.  I went back to my hotel with family.  My family let me sleep for about an hour, and returned to check on me. Apparently I didn’t recognize them at this time.  (I don’t recall anything for the 24 hours following my return to hotel)     They took me to the hospital, where I was diagnosed with hyponatremic encephalopathy.  Na: 124 on entry.   Other abnormal blood parameters were ck-mb, and of course cpk.  they did a variety of tests, but that was the final diagnosis.  After a few bags of fluids and 24 hours of rest, I returned to the world of the living.        Can anyone help me figure out what I need to do to prevent this from occurring again?  I did Ironman Hawaii in 95 and didn’t have this kind of problem.  I am planning on Ironman Canada this year.  I can’t drink large amts of powerade or other carbonated junk.  Gatorade works great, but I don’t know what IMC drink will be.       Feel free to use medical terms, I am a veterinarian, but we don’t see this in animals!  They don’t usually over do it I guess!  Thanks in advance for any help. Gina  

 Gina: There is a lot in the sportsmed literature about this problem: Question: 1.  did you train in the same temperatures as the race, this will change your sweating and salt and water metabolism and can contribute to this problem? 2.  did you do one or two 20 mile runs with the SAME types of fluids and gels as the race? 3.  did you run during the same aspect of your menstrual cycle as during training? These factors, controlled, probably would have given you a better chance of finishing without this type of result.

Response:

Thanks for the post Dr. Jenkins.    I have been arguing this point with people for years. Many athletes I know are sucked in by health food hype. For some reason the health food set seems to think sodium is an enemy.  I have been trying to tell them that it is not a worry if you don’t have high blood pressure and can be dangerous if you’re athletic, particulaly in the here in the south where we sweat a whole lot.  Should I hold my ground, is this basically the case?    Thanks, John Hural  almost Ph.D. (immunology)

John,  What you state is true. Sodium is not the enemy. Without it, you die. If one does not have a medical condition necessitating a reduced sodium diet then there is really no reason to restrict intake. For healthy people, a low sodium diet will not prevent disease. While it is true that many sedentary individuals consume more sodium than is needed and probably should cut back, the situation is *very* different for healthy athletes who exercise in the heat. This latter group is at great risk for hyponatremia if they reduce their sodium intake below their needs. This is well documented in the medical literature. Hyponatremia can be a life-threatening condition, and is often the culprit for those requiring hospitalization following an endurance event. For example, there were only a few people requiring overnight hospitalization following last years (1996) Houston marathon. Two of those patients, however, were critically ill and in the intensive care unit because of seizures and coma which were directly caused by hyponatremia. So the next time you hear, "Gosh you’re a triathlete and seem so healthy. Why aren’t you reducing your salt intake"? You can smile and explain why.             See you,                Mark — Mark A. Jenkins, M.D proprietor SportsMed Web http://riceinfo.rice.edu/~jenkins

Response:

Thanks for the post Dr. Jenkins.    I have been arguing this point with people for years. Many athletes I know are sucked in by health food hype. For some reason the health food set seems to think sodium is an enemy.  I have been trying to tell them that it is not a worry if you don’t have high blood pressure and can be dangerous if you’re athletic, particulaly in the here in the south where we sweat a whole lot.  Should I hold my ground, is this basically the case?    Thanks, John Hural  almost Ph.D. (immunology)

Response:

Hopefully, someone out there can give me some good advice.  I did the Walt Disney marathon Jan 5th.  I had trained for 16 weeks, ave. about 35-45 miles per week, with the traditional once a week long run from 12-20 miles.  I ran the race in 4:17, and felt relatively good.  Difficulty from mile 19 on, only walking about a quarter mile at 23, plus through the water stops to make sure I drank.     I drank 2 cups of water, and 1 cup of powerade (yuck) each stop (there were 20).  Plus a gel packet every 4 miles.  I was well hydrated to  start the race.  My problems started about 1 hour post race.  I vomited several times, and was feeling very confused.  Unfortunately, the medical tent let me escape, without fluids.  I went back to my hotel with family.  My family let me sleep for about an hour, and returned to check on me. Apparently I didn’t recognize them at this time.  (I don’t recall anything for the 24 hours following my return to hotel)      They took me to the hospital, where I was diagnosed with hyponatremic encephalopathy.  Na: 124 on entry.   Other abnormal blood parameters were ck-mb, and of course cpk.  they did a variety of tests, but that was the final diagnosis.  After a few bags of fluids and 24 hours of rest, I returned to the world of the living.         Can anyone help me figure out what I need to do to prevent this from occurring again?  I did Ironman Hawaii in 95 and didn’t have this kind of problem.  I am planning on Ironman Canada this year.  I can’t drink large amts of powerade or other carbonated junk.  Gatorade works great, but I don’t know what IMC drink will be.        Feel free to use medical terms, I am a veterinarian, but we don’t see this in animals!  They don’t usually over do it I guess!  Thanks in advance for any help. Gina  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hopefully, someone out there can give me some good advice.  I did the Walt Disney marathon Jan 5th.  I had trained for 16 weeks, ave. about 35-45 miles per week, with the traditional once a week long run from 12-20 miles.  I ran the race in 4:17, and felt relatively good.  Difficulty from mile 19 on, only walking about a quarter mile at 23, plus through the water stops to make sure I drank.     I drank 2 cups of water, and 1 cup of powerade (yuck) each stop (there were 20).  Plus a gel packet every 4 miles.  I was well hydrated to start the race.  My problems started about 1 hour post race.  I vomited several times, and was feeling very confused.  Unfortunately, the medical tent let me escape, without fluids.  I went back to my hotel with family.  My family let me sleep for about an hour, and returned to check on me. Apparently I didn’t recognize them at this time.  (I don’t recall anything for the 24 hours following my return to hotel)      They took me to the hospital, where I was diagnosed with hyponatremic encephalopathy.  Na: 124 on entry.   Other abnormal blood parameters were ck-mb, and of course cpk.  they did a variety of tests, but that was the final diagnosis.  After a few bags of fluids and 24 hours of rest, I returned to the world of the living.     Can anyone help me figure out what I need to do to prevent this from occurring again?

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Gina, but at least you apparently recovered quite rapidly. As for preventing this from happening in the future, the general answer is quite simple: you need to take in less water/more sodium during and/or after long races. You state that you drank 3 cups of fluid at each of 20 water stops – if these were full 8 oz cups and you didn’t spill a drop, that is over 14 L of fluid in 4.25 hours, or 3.3 L/hour – given your running pace, this is quite likely in excess of your rate of fluid loss (even in hot, humid Florida). Thus, even if you had been only drinking a sodium-containing sports drink (e.g., Gatorade), your plasma sodium levels would have probably declined. Although that’s the general solution, implementing it is somewhat more difficult. Sweating rate during exercise varies considerably from one person to another, as does sweat sodium content. Ideally, you would replace both water and sodium at exactly the rate at which they are lost. As many people will probably tell you, water loss can be monitored fairly well by weighing yourself before and after exercise. Determining exactly how much sodium you need, however, is much more difficult – as implied above, however, your first "line of defense" would be to choose a sodium-containing sports drink over plain water. Whether you need/would benefit from additional sodium intake can only be determined on an individual basis… At this point, let me emphasize another important role for sodium intake, and that is during post-exercise rehydration. Simply put, if you have incurred water and sodium deficits during exercise, it is important to replace both. Water intake in the absence of sodium intake results in a further dilution of sodium levels, resulting in diuresis (and possibly hyponatremia)…

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Hopefully, someone out there can give me some good advice.  I did the Walt Disney marathon Jan 5th. <snip.    I drank 2 cups of water, and 1 cup of powerade (yuck) each stop (there were 20).  Plus a gel packet every 4 miles.  I was well hydrated to  start the race.  <snip     They took me to the hospital, where I was diagnosed with hyponatremic encephalopathy.  Na: 124 on entry. <snip    Can anyone help me figure out what I need to do to prevent this from occurring again?  I did Ironman Hawaii in 95 and didn’t have this kind of problem.  I am planning on Ironman Canada this year.  I can’t drink large amts of powerade or other carbonated junk.  Gatorade works great, but I don’t know what IMC drink will be.  

While not a Dr, I have experienced hypnotremia (no fun). The only thing I would ask is, ‘Did you have the same nutritional strategy in your long runs?’ Personally, when I got it – one of the attributing factors was taking excessive amounts of gel (which contained caffiene) Anyway, for an excellent medical discussion on hypnotremia & how to avoid, see: "Salt and the Endurance Athlete" http://riceinfo.rice.edu/~jenkins/sports/salt.html FWIW – I followed the advice in the article in IM #2 & had no problems! For general medical tent advice, see: http://riceinfo.rice.edu/~jenkins/medtent.1.html Also, All Sport ( a low Sodium beverage) will the beverage for IMC.

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Hopefully, someone out there can give me some good advice. sodium = 124

Hyponatremia — what is it? Hyponatremia means a low concentration of sodium in the blood. When it occurs in triathletes, it usually happens during long or ultra-distance races in the heat but may occur anytime. It is estimated that approximately 30% of the finishers of the Hawaii Ironman are both hyponatremic and dehydrated. The longer the race, the greater the risk of hyponatremia. What causes it? The exact mechanisms are not fully understood and I won’t go into the complex physiologic pathways of sodium and water balance (more on this in PART II). The simplest answer is that lost sweat (salt and water) is replaced by ingested water (no salt). This dilutes the sodium in the bloodstream, and hyponatremia results. Longer races carry a greater risk of hyponatremia partly because of the total amount of sweat lost. During exercise in the heat, more salt is lost in sweat per hour than is usually replaced by food and fluids, including sports drinks.  Your body can tolerate a degree of imbalance for a short period of time, but it may decompensate if this continues for too long. Sweat contains between 2.25 – 3.4 grams of salt per liter, and the rate of perspiration in a long, hot race can easily average 1  liter per hour. So, for a 12 hour race, one could lose approximately 27 to 41 grams of salt. If the athlete replaces only the lost water and has minimal salt intake, hyponatremia can result. Medications and hyponatremia Aspirin, ibuprofen, and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents interfere with kidney function and may contribute to the development of hyponatremia in triathletes. The same applies to acetaminophen (Tylenol). I have seen many athletes taking these drugs during Ironman races, and I strongly recommend against this practice. They won’t make you faster and may hurt you. Under tough conditions, your kidneys need to function at 100%. Other drugs that may contribute to hyponatremia are diuretics, narcotics, and certain psychiatric medications.   What are the symptoms of hyponatremia? The spectrum of symptoms can range from mild to severe and can include nausea, muscle cramps, disorientation, slurred speech, confusion, and inappropriate behavior. As it progresses, victims may experience seizures or coma, and death can occur. Severe hyponatremia is a true medical emergency. Treatment Minor symptoms, such as nausea and mild muscle cramps, can be treated by eating salty foods and hydrating with a sodium containing sports drink. More severe symptoms require treatment by qualified medical personnel. If you think you are suffering from hyponatremia or are unsure, seek medical attention immediately. Recommendations There are no clear cut guidelines, and recommendations need to be individualized for each triathlete. Some authorities recommend drinking less water to rebalance sodium and water intake. However, given the risk of dehydration and heat injury, this is not a practical recommendation. To reiterate, all of the hyponatremic athletes in the Hawaii Ironman were also dehydrated. Others recommend increasing salt intake, and this seems more prudent. By ingesting more sodium, hydration with water is balanced and dilution of blood sodium does not occur. Relative importance for different length races            less than 1 hr        1 – 3 hrs          3  hrs water             -/+                +                 + carbohydrate       –                 +                 + salt               –                -/+                +    It cannot be stressed enough that you have got to know what your needs are prior to race day. Rehearse your hydration, feeding, and salt strategy during your training sessions. There are so many variations between individuals that there is no single right answer. Know what your body’s’ needs are.

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The other problem with a camelback is the time spent in transitions wrestling with it. Sometimes the camelback seems like an octupus and refuses to play the fast transition game. Jim Mewkill (Displaced Australian in North Carolina)

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I’ll be using mine for the first time at Wildflower. I’ve been training with it all winter/spring after getting hooked during our mountain bike season last fall/winter (seems easier to ride on the trails in a downpour and wind than on the roads). I haven’t had any problems training and I have grown to like the convenience. Will be using a regular Camelback and a Jetstream and that’s about it for the ride. (By the way I got one of their GO BEs – the fanny pack thing for running. I was running out of fluids on my long runs with the bottle holder. I find the Go Be to be more comfortable and has much more capacity.) Larry — Thanks Larry

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I’ve been reading along quietly for some time, and have never heard anything about using a Camelback as a water supply source during triathlons.  I’m doing my first in Florida here in a few weeks and would appreciate comments on the use of a Camelback as this has been my plan. (I just hate carrying 4 waterbottles on my bike).  I’ve heard that having cold water in the Camelback acts to cool the body. Any comments???

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writes: I’ve been reading along quietly for some time, and have never heard anything about using a Camelback as a water supply source during triathlons.  I’m doing my first in Florida here in a few weeks and would appreciate comments on the use of a Camelback as this has been my plan. (I just hate carrying 4 waterbottles on my bike).  I’ve heard that having cold water in the Camelback acts to cool the body. Any comments???

The main drawback, as I understand it, is that in a good aero position the water will leak out and/or it won’t work properly (have you tried it yet?).  Also.. depending on the distance, 4 water bottles IS a bit much. I just put a jetstream on my bike based on all the positive comments I’ve read here on rst.  First ride with it is tomorrow- so I can’t give you any personal feedback yet. Good luck! Roxanne

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Question:

I like a channel called RST. Give a time (perhaps CET) when you are on irc!! I will be on IRC on Tuesday 8:00 – 11:00 CET — Channel RST — See You —   OK…I give…what does "CET" mean???  As long as it’s not in the middle

of the night, I’ll try   to be there.  Any other takers??? —   Marty Miller (aka The Noodle) Proprietor of "The Triathlete’s Web" http://www.iac.net/~miller/triweb.html

I also will be there! tell me the time and "the crow" will be into irc, on channel #rst (or any other channel) to talk with tri-friends all over the world! ede

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I like a channel called RST. Give a time (perhaps CET) when you are on irc!! I will be on IRC on Tuesday 8:00 – 11:00 CET — Channel RST — See You —  

OK…I give…what does "CET" mean???  As long as it’s not in the middle of the night, I’ll try   to be there.  Any other takers??? —   Marty Miller (aka The Noodle) Proprietor of "The Triathlete’s Web" http://www.iac.net/~miller/triweb.html

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Since Team RST has been a great success, does anyone think that a weekly   IRC rendevouz would be fun?  For those who are confused now, IRC=Internet   Relay Chat, a sort of computer cb available through the Internet.  It’s   very easy to set up a channel called "Triathletes" or something similar,   and it could be done say at a regular time and day each week.  It might   be fun to converse in real time with other RST’ers, or am I just a   hopeless geek?

I like a channel called RST. Give a time (perhaps CET) when you are on irc!! —

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Since Team RST has been a great success, does anyone think that a weekly   IRC rendevouz would be fun?  For those who are confused now, IRC=Internet   Relay Chat, a sort of computer cb available through the Internet.  It’s   very easy to set up a channel called "Triathletes" or something similar,   and it could be done say at a regular time and day each week.  It might   be fun to converse in real time with other RST’ers, or am I just a   hopeless geek? I like a channel called RST. Give a time (perhaps CET) when you are on irc!!

I will be on IRC on Tuesday 8:00 – 11:00 CET — Channel RST — See You —

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Since Team RST has been a great success, does anyone think that a weekly   IRC rendevouz would be fun?  For those who are confused now, IRC=Internet   Relay Chat, a sort of computer cb available through the Internet.  It’s   very easy to set up a channel called "Triathletes" or something similar,   and it could be done say at a regular time and day each week.  It might   be fun to converse in real time with other RST’ers, or am I just a   hopeless geek? Marty —   Marty Miller (aka The Noodle) Proprietor of "The Triathlete’s Web" http://www.iac.net/~miller/trweb.html

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Question:

Hi folks, Has anyone out there done the Collingwood Triathlon, held in Collingwood, Ontario, Canada? I’ve entered (it’s being held Aug 7th) and I’d be very interested in any info on the course, etc., since I know next to nothing about it (other than it being half-Ironman distance and they have a hill called the "eliminator" on the bike course) and I’ll only get there just before race time. Any information would be appreciated. Please email me directly. cheers, Chris — Ontario Telepresence Project, 2670 Queensview Dr., Ottawa, ON, K1N 6N5, CANADA

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     The Eliminator is a 7% grade over 5K!  I took my bike up there a couple of weeks ago and it really hurt!  Unfortunately, I can’t do the race because I can’t get the day off work.

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