Question:

First week with a leading ‘2′! Feels like I’m really getting into the game again, I ran pretty much the same pace all week (which doesn’t mean it feels easy, though) and I’m surprised at the strength of my legs – it’s more my cardio/respiratory systems that are needing to catch up. Also, I still fall apart every time I encounter the slightest uphill. But it’s all coming along.

Nice job, nina! You’re getting back into the swing of things nicely. I understand about hills — the first ones I’ve run in like a year were in this weekend’s 5K. Whew! — Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing and proofreading If you’re going through hell, keep going. –Winston Churchill

Response:

  "Stretching on nun-running days"?

OMG LOL… I only saw this the third time I read it. I was like, what’s he quoting that for? BTW, saw your week Nina. Congrtats on the "leading 2" effort. Keep it up.

Thanks, Doug! I’m so happy to be getting back into the groove. I might just aim for that marathon. What a thought! cheers, nina

Response:

Goals: more miles, faster. I love your goals F: dnr Sa: 5M (9:35), legs sore (from what?  resting?) You know, this has occurred to me too. Usually after a day or two of rest I go out feeling more creaky and sore than before. Usually stops after a mile or two, though.

I noticed this much more when I was running 5 days a week; since I started 6-day weeks it’s happened much less often (fewer rest days, duh).  I was really surprised by it this week though, since I’d been "good" (ran the easy stuff EASY). Maybe I’ll start stretching on nun-running days.

Bingo.  Though I was a good lil’ runner this week, I wasn’t such a good non-runner.  I worked a lot, worked late, slept little, neglected my stretching, didn’t drink nearly enough water. You just caused a light bulb to turn on above my head.  Thanks. Karen

Response:

Greetings, rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

First week back after about 5 weeks off without any running at all… not a step… while i was dealing with a recurring knee problem once and for all. Very humbling to say the least. Five weeks without a single run means I have a long way to go to get back in competitive shape. My

Question:

For years I used clip on Aero Bars with regular shifters and brakes.  The theory was that how often do you have to shift or break anyway?  I finally moved to the bar end shifters on the end of the aerobars when I got some Angel bars.  The result is that I tend to shift more since it is easier.  I don’t know if it is faster but it is sure a lot more convenient. By the way the Bar end shifters were a real bitch to put on the angel bars. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

Definitely clipless pedals for all the reasons stated in the previous post. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

I say go with STI (brake lever) shifters. This goes against what a lot of people feel. If you do all of your riding alone, on flat courses, maybe bar-end shifters are right for you. If you’re like the rest of us you sometimes do (or will) ride with others in a group or you ride hills. With STI shifters you can shift without changing position. I’ve used both and it’s much easier to shift with STI while you’re in the aero position than it is to take your hand off the bars and reach for the bar-end shifters while your struggling up a hill or riding with a group. STI gives you more control over your bike. I think most triathletes just think of bar-end shifters as going hand in hand with tri-bikes. If you can, ride a bike with each system and see which one you like. The best shifters are the ones you feel most comfortable with. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

Race wheels do make a difference. The faster you are the bigger the advantage. Still, I would wait until you have a couple seasons under your belt before buying them. He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike?

No, that was probably lack of brick training. You should periodically do a bike ride followed by a 3 or 4 mile run to get your legs accustomed to running while fatigued from biking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts:

If your bicycle is adequate – which it seems to be – it’s unlikely that you’ll see much measurable improvement from a new one.  There’s nothing wrong with a new bike if you can afford it and will use it.  Just don’t expect a magic carpet. 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

No contest here.  Clipless pedals (Look, Speedplay, etc.) are far better than soft soled shoes and toe straps.  The stiff soled shoes keep your feet from flexing and bending.  This causes less foot pain and better power transfer. Having your feet locked to the pedals makes for a more efficient stroke. Clipless pedals are much easier to manage than a strap that you have to tighten and loosen, especially during training. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

My setup has evolved to bar end shifters on Syntace C2s and cowhorns.  I’m extremely pleased with it for a racing setup.  Many triathletes stick with their STI shifters even when they’re using cow horns.  My setup is easier to shift from the aero position. The other setup requires you to move your hands down to the drops in order to shift.  I prefer not to move my hands around when I’m on the aero bars. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

Aero wheels are supposedly one of the most productive bike upgrades.  I settled on HED3s but I really can’t see a measurable improvement given the conditions where I’ve used them.  The only way to know for sure would be to  find a suitable stretch of road to do a few time trials where I could switch wheels and compare times.  Until I get the ambition to do that, it’s just another leap of faith. 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike

Another tough question.  It’s accepted that aero bars provide a significant advantage, especially on a flat course.  Seat angle theories and preferences vary.  John Cobb’s recent "Big Slam" position returns to road bike geometry with shorter aero bars.  The most important aspect is to get the proper fit.  Aside from that it’s a matter of going through the evaluations and opinions to find the ones most agreeable to you. I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff.

There are worse places to spend your money.  If having good equipment makes you feel good, then maybe you’ll train and race a little better. Larry

Response:

I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff.

Can’t add much to what has already been said. It feels really cool to have a brand new bike but  remember that bicycles suffer from the law of diminishing returns – the more you spend, the less is the return. It’s mostly the engine that counts. I’ve seen people on old clunkers win their age group. In one race I passed  a brand new Cervelo P2K while riding my old 12 sp. road bike but at the same race was passed (blush) by a  mountain bike fitted with road tires.  IMO I would stick to a road bike until you start to think about half or IM distances. If you can afford only one bike right now stick with a road bike as it is far more versatile. Even the pros spend most of their training time on road bikes. Fit your current $600. road bike with a front aero wheel and a pair of "big slam" aero http://www.bicyclesports.com/accessories/aerobars/slambars.html  bars and you’ve got a bike that will do 98% what anything else will do.

Response:

Approx $120 for clip on aero bars and increase your avg speed by around 2 mph. Clipless pedals (I prefer Look), makes for more efficient transfer of power from your muscles to the bike. A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

If you don’t mind one more opinion… I’ve ridden a lot of road miles and it’s the engine not the chasis. With that being said, I believe clipless pedals are a necessity. Recently I went to a QR Tequila. This is the first time I’ve ridden with anything but Dura Ace and IMO, the Shimano 105 is VERY acceptable. Also, the aero bars were a new experience and now, like the clipless pedals, I believe they are a necessity. A couple of years ago, I did my first sprint tri and posted the question, "Why do triathletes use such big gears?". I got some smart and some smart ass answers but now I know. The body position allows greater leverage so it’s easier to push the big gears. You’ll have to decide for yourself if there’s a penalty for this on the run. I picked up a 2001 QR Tequila for $1,030 which included delivery. Works for me… but some people like Fords, some people like Chevy’s and some… well, you get the point. Enjoy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed.

Actually, aerodynamics is much more important. Studies have demonstrated that bike weight is relatively unimportant accept upon ascending hills, such as if running the Alps section in the Tour de France, etc. . On a two to one ratio in importance the weight of drive train/wheels is is more significant than the non rotating bike parts such as the frame and even that isn’t all that big a deal. Also, it’s the combined weight of the rider and bike. Generally it’s easier to lose a few lbs. off the rider than the bike!! Spending an extra grand for a frame that is a lb. or two lighter is a very expensive purchase for what is really gained.

Response:

I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike?

See if you can test ride a Tri bike and use it in a brick.  I find a forward position helps me feel more ready for a run.  Sound like you are competitive and an aero frame and aero wheels combined with some more bricks could close that "2 minutes" pretty quickly.  You got money burning a hole, what better way to spend it then on bike stuff IMO.  And yes on clipless and bar end shifters. I don’t think bullhorns will make much of a diffence though. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

I am considering spending a lot of money to buy some Zipp wheels.   After your comment I am wondering if this is wise.  Do you think the benefit from upgrading wheels is worth the cash? Thanks in advance…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A more expensive frame (with a carbon fibre fork) will probably be lighter and that translates to speed. Actually, aerodynamics is much more important. Studies have demonstrated that bike weight is relatively unimportant accept upon ascending hills, such as if running the Alps section in the Tour de France, etc. . On a two to one ratio in importance the weight of drive train/wheels is is more significant than the non rotating bike parts such as the frame and even that isn’t all that big a deal. Also, it’s the combined weight of the rider and bike. Generally it’s easier to lose a few lbs. off the rider than the bike!! Spending an extra grand for a frame that is a lb. or two lighter is a very expensive purchase for what is really gained.

Response:

I am considering spending a lot of money to buy some Zipp wheels.   After your comment I am wondering if this is wise.  Do you think the benefit from upgrading wheels is worth the cash?

Everything I have read indicates that aerobars and aerowheels are the two biggest improvements that can be made to a bike and are highly recommended. Zipp wheels are considered very good. I picked up a decent set of aero wheels off ebay second hand for a very low price, but I’m one of those cheapo types that hardly ever buys anything new because of the depreciation factor. I even bought my aerobars secondhand! As I mentioned previously, bikes suffer from the law of diminishing returns. That last tiny little bit costs a lot of extra money.  It really boils down to how much money you want to spend.

Response:

I’m not a veteran, but I’ve done a lot of reading and I can pass along what I’ve learned. =) 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal

Clipless pedals and cycling shoes allow you to transfer more energy to the cranks (well, actually it stops you from wasting energy… but anyways.) Cycling shoes have a stiff sole and transfers all the weight in your foot to the pedal (this is where the clipless pedal comes in), thus eliminating the wasted energy from when your heel sinks downward. Even if you use toe straps, your sole still flexes when you pedal down (especially when you stand) and you tend to lose some energy that would otherwise go to moving you forward. 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn

You bought aerobars to become more aerodynamic and to waste less energy against drag, right? Well, unless you live/race in a rather hilly area, you stay in the aero position more often by putting your shifters on the aerobars. The bull horns are less aerodynamic, so for the moments that you move out of the aerobars to shift, you use more energy to overcome the extra drag. 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel?

I possess no knowledge of this. =) 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike

A tri bike has a steeper seat tube angle, thus positioning you over the cranks. This forces you to use your quads to pedal more than you use your hams. Also, the steeper angle allows you to get a more aerodynamic position on the aerobars. However, some people prefer a road bike over a tri bike. Hope I helped. –Vincent

Response:

So much of this triathlon stuff is trial and error, and since I’ve now done 3 triathlons, I know a boatload more than I did when I started–for instance:   you can be the fastest swimmer of them all, but you won’t come out of the water first if you swim 400 meters off course–yep, learned that one the hard way. Of the 3 parts of the triathlon, the swim and the bike seem pretty much straightforward to me–there’s not much in the way of equipment to confuse me as to how the other athletes are beating me.   But, on the issue of the bike, I am not convinced it’s all about fitness.   So, with that background, I would greatly appreciate "veteran" advice on the advantages of the following biking parts: 1.  clip-on bike pedals/shoes vs. strapping tennis shoe to pedal 2.  gear shifters on aero-bar vs. bull horn 3.  HED vs. Spinnergy vs. "double-spoked technology"–does that stuff REALLY make a difference outside of the wind tunnel? 4.  tri- frame geometry vs. road bike I have done 2 sprint triathlons and 1 Olympic size triathlon–I do better the longer the race.   I rode my 600 dollar bike against the latest equipped bikes out there, and I was 2 minutes behind the fastest cyclist.   He did promptly get off his bike and run like a scared rabbit whilst I battlted thunder-thighs for 6 miles–was that the bike? You guys are always so helpful…I have money burning a hole in my pocket over a new bike, but I like to think I have common sense enough to recognize when I’m infatuated–please help me clear my thinking on this bike stuff. Thanks. David

Response:

Question:

I was kind of bummed to get this email from Karl:

[snip] you’re justified in thinking what you’re thinking.   questionable tactic, though,  sharing a private email with the NG.  if you lived in maryland that might even be illegal, in which case you’re only hope would be a grant of immunity from the independant counsel. qrman

Response:

I was kind of bummed to get this email from Karl: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for your valued input you gay asshole. —–Original Message—– Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon These type of relaxed drafting rules are what I would like to see at all races.  Makes for a much more fun event.  Lucky you for racing that day. Send that RD to Phoenix! "Life’s a brick" Yeesh.  I hope your children have freckles. David

I replied there wasn’t any reason not to have some fun with this subject, that I have plenty of freckles myself.  And that I could have said, "I hope your children grow up to be Libertarians," which would have been equally self-deprecating, since I’ve had about as much luck voting for the LP candidates as I have rooting for the Cubs. Maybe he just had a bad day. David "David Windhorst" Windhorst

Response:

Question:

Anybody going to the falmouth sprint

Response:

Anybody going to the falmouth sprint

What exactly is a foul Mouth Sprint?  If I get my wife mad enough at me she could probably win it overall. Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

What exactly is a foul Mouth Sprint?  If I get my wife mad enough at me she could probably win it overall.

        That would be my younger sister after a dreadful bike ride at the Collingwood sprint triathlon. My parents later claimed they had never heard such a foul mouth and blazing profanity as she started the run. "I hate this *&*%ing race, &*%$ing sport, and yes I’ll get my own *&^%ing water" She survived, barely David Barclay IMC 1997: 11:55:59 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

Response:

Aaaayup,   I’ll be there.  I did this one last year and had a blast with it.  I dont know if you were there but a hurricane, yes a hurricane, came through the day before the race and things were looking pretty bad.  A great deal of credit must go to Richie Havens (puts on this race) for getting things together quite literaly at the last second.  It looks like this year we will have better weather.  I’ll see ya there!!! Anybody going to the falmouth sprint

Response:

Loved it this was my 6th year to do it enjoyed it.     Tri-man

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Question:

Well, glad to hear that you and Dave had a good race.  It was a great dat, weather wise, and I was lucky enough to have a neat swim (25th over all), and a 21 mph bike (which for dis fat boy ain’t too shabby), but like Dave hit a sude stich at almost exactly 1 mile.  But lucky enough I was able to stagger through it just short of 1.5 miles. This was a well run event, by people that have put it on for some time (9 yrs and counting).  It was particularly nice to meet so many new friends. CYA all at columbia and cambridge (oooohh goodie) anders – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dittos mostly Dave, was nice to meet you too. My 13 minute swim made me think the course was a bit shorter than advertised. A spectator that knows me said I exited the water, stopped and looked at my watch and froze in place! And your (or Anders?) crystal ball was really close to target, I managed a 23mph average on the bike! But fell apart on the crawl. I really enjoyed the race, but during my crawl I was really questioning my sanity for signing up the the Eagleman 1/2 IM in a few weeks. Still am. And – I must report a good vendor story too – one of the Bonzai Sports employees showed up at the race (his wife races) with some new items I ordered, placed them in my hands, and said to worry about payment later. Very nice, thanks Max/Mark. Mike last week.  Thanks to race management for putting on an excellent event. Organization and safety were outstanding, the site was great, the course was great, and overall it was a day they should be proud of.  I’ll definitely be back next year.  I met fellow rst’er Mike Schwing, who was racked right across from me.  The guy who was racked right next to me (Lavell) turned out to be from my town and lived about two miles from me. Triathlon is a very small world, isn’t it? See you in Columbia!!! Dave Radomski Springfield, VA, USA Cherry Blossom 10 Miler ‘98  Columbia Triathlon ‘98  Blackwater Eagleman ‘98????

Response:

Dittos mostly Dave, was nice to meet you too. My 13 minute swim made me think the course was a bit shorter than advertised. A spectator that knows me said I exited the water, stopped and looked at my watch and froze in place! And your (or Anders?) crystal ball was really close to target, I managed a 23mph average on the bike! But fell apart on the crawl. I really enjoyed the race, but during my crawl I was really questioning my sanity for signing up the the Eagleman 1/2 IM in a few weeks. Still am. And – I must report a good vendor story too – one of the Bonzai Sports employees showed up at the race (his wife races) with some new items I ordered, placed them in my hands, and said to worry about payment later. Very nice, thanks Max/Mark. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -last week.  Thanks to race management for putting on an excellent event. Organization and safety were outstanding, the site was great, the course was great, and overall it was a day they should be proud of.  I’ll definitely be back next year.  I met fellow rst’er Mike Schwing, who was racked right across from me.  The guy who was racked right next to me (Lavell) turned out to be from my town and lived about two miles from me. Triathlon is a very small world, isn’t it? See you in Columbia!!! Dave Radomski Springfield, VA, USA Cherry Blossom 10 Miler ‘98  Columbia Triathlon ‘98  Blackwater Eagleman ‘98????

Response:

–Coors Light/Pepsi Triathlon Salisbury, MD May 3, 1998  9am .5 mi. swim/14.5 mi. bike/3.65 mi. run When my better half and I departed Northern VA on Saturday morning it was looking like a weekend better spent indoors.  Black skies and heavy rain greeted us as we worked our way across the Bay Bridge.  Fortunately, as soon as we got onto Maryland’s Eastern Shore, things changed dramatically and stayed that way all weekend!  Weather for the race on Sunday morning was among the best I’ve ever had at a race–warm, but not too warm, dry, sunny, and blue skies.  The sun had come to our rescue and managed to warm the pond up to manageable temperature by race time. As far as my race, it went pretty well.  Pre-race was uneventful as I wasn’t nervous and got my spot all squared away.  The race site was very nice and well laid out.  I was especially pleased to see that my rack spot was very close to the swim exit and bike departure.  We attended a pre-race meeting on the shore at 9:45 and the tri season was finally at hand.  For some reason, I really appreciated the scene this year and just kind of soaked up the entire atmosphere.  As I trained through all the cold and sloppy weather of the winter and early spring, this was the day that I kept in mind and it was finally here! I was in the 3rd wave, along with the other 30-34’s.  Having just turned 30, this was my debut in this killer age group.  Not that I’d be close to any awards, but it should be interesting to see how much worse I get smoked by my peers in this age group.  The swim went very well for me.  My wave wasn’t too crowded and other than a couple of minor kicks, I came through the start relatively unscathed.  The roughly half mile swim went quick, I had no trouble sighting, the water wasn’t too cold, and I felt fresh and smooth the whole way.  Now, I’m still a pretty slow swimmer comparatively, but exiting the water at just over 13 minutes at a smooth pace is an unqualified success for me.  As I ran up to my bike and was stripping off the wetsuit, I was thinking "wow, this is getting easier." As I got to the rack that old friend DIZZINESS kicked in hard.  I had a hell of a time getting into my shoes and had to wait a good 20-30 extra seconds as I breathed deep and tried to regain equilibrium.  Finally I could walk a straight line and got moving on the bike.  The first problem of the day happened next–the bike computer went whacko.  Fortunately for me, this was the worst problem of the day and that I can live with.  The bike was a pancake flat out-and-back and was just what the doctor ordered. My cycling has been neglected this spring in favor of running and I’m not expecting much at this point of the season.  Still, I averaged right at 20 mph for the bike without suffering much at all.  I was pretty pleased with that as well. The run went okay, although not as well as I’d hoped.  I had problems with a nasty side stitch from about the mile mark and had to manage it most of the way.  This meant that I couldn’t do too much running at tempo and alot of my slow running was with my hand poked in my side trying to massage the stitch.  At least I was able to pace myself.  I ran 7:50 per mile, much slower than desired and finished in a pretty composed manner to clock 1:31.  I didn’t see the overall results, but that probably put me somewhere in the middle overall and toward the back of the middle in my age group. Still, I was pretty pleased with my day and happy to see improvement.  All this advice on rst is starting to pay off! Notes:  Special thanks to Anders for keeping us informed on water temp’s last week.  Thanks to race management for putting on an excellent event. Organization and safety were outstanding, the site was great, the course was great, and overall it was a day they should be proud of.  I’ll definitely be back next year.  I met fellow rst’er Mike Schwing, who was racked right across from me.  The guy who was racked right next to me (Lavell) turned out to be from my town and lived about two miles from me. Triathlon is a very small world, isn’t it? See you in Columbia!!! Dave Radomski Springfield, VA, USA Cherry Blossom 10 Miler ‘98  Columbia Triathlon ‘98  Blackwater Eagleman ‘98????

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Question:

Well, I’m not sure who started this one, but USAT is sanctioning the Ironman World Championship. Steve Locke Executive Director USAT

Come on folks.  The main issue was whether IRONMAN was sanctioned by USAT. All the rumers started flying about the announcement by ITU that USAT had pulled sanction from IRONMAN. Steve Locke finally answered and stated that IRONMAN(the race) is still sanctioned by USAT. (don’t get into what it’s called I’m talking about the race in Hawaii and you all know which one it is). Point was alot of us were worrying about the race itself not being sanctioned by USAT.  Well Steve answered back that it still was which is TRUE…. Because of the impending lawsuit I guess he felt it was not the time to explain the details about a particular name not being sanctioned and then sanctioning the IRONMAN with a slightly different name.  What’s the big deal. The NAME stuff will get worked out in court.  Meanwhile the race is still sanctioned we can go have a good time race and then start on the road at supporting WTC and USAT to put ITU back in their proper place…. Sounds to me with the WTC lawsuit upcoming and their money and power maybe with our support and the pro union the ITU has bitten off more than they can chew….. There seems to be too many nervous panic freaks out there how about calming down and focusing energy on the cause.  Remember not everybody hit’s the internet nor has email. While it may sound like a big following here on RST we are just a small portion of the overall tri community.  I think we need to put more effort in at race’s and use our vote’s and convince others that aren’t on the internet and fill them in on what’s going on. Just my .02 worth (well maybe .20 was a bit long). Gary Holmes.

Response:

This whole thing sounds like a couple kids in a sandbox fighting over a toy. This is politics of triathlon? Truly embarassing that such a thing ends up in  FEDERAL COURT. What a waste of time and money. The very fact of Ironman having the name SEVEN years before ITU existed says it  all. OK, kids now go out and play.

Response:

Question:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ?

Response:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ?

This may not be accurate, so take it with a grain of salt, but….. A friend of mine (who swam in college so should notice these things) that lives along Lake Michigan about 2 mi from the start says she has seen nothing but wetsuits (primarily quickjohn types) amongst Lake Michigan swimmers. And if these Chicago Yankees need one, you can sho’ bet that a Suth’na from North Carolina like myself will need one. I’m planning to buy one at the expo – if Dan or Paul are willing to deal!!!

Response:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ?

I was at the lakefront last night.  One lifeguard stand said the water temp was 65 deg., the other said 64 deg.  I didn’t get in, though. A friend of mine (who swam in college so should notice these things) that lives along Lake Michigan about 2 mi from the start says she has seen nothing but wetsuits (primarily quickjohn types) amongst Lake Michigan swimmers. And if these Chicago Yankees need one, you can sho’ bet that a Suth’na from North Carolina like myself will need one.

Dose dere swimmers er jest tryin’ ta get dat exter lill edge.  It’s like Ditka allways sed: "If ya don’t do all ya can, don’t do it al all." — Dan Reiley, Ph.D.     Bell Labs       Naperville, IL

Response:

The water temp was 66-70, depending on location, depth, etc…last Sunday 7-7-96, up at North Avenue beach.  We had very warm weather prior to that weekend.  This week the air temperatures have been much cooler overnight lows in the 50s, daily highs in the 70s.  I’d expect the lake to be colder for the race this weekend. If you’ve been here previously, keep in mind that we’ve had a cold spring this year.  In addition, Mrs. T’s is a month earlier. Come prepared. -rjh

Response:

This may not be accurate, so take it with a grain of salt, but….. A friend of mine (who swam in college so should notice these things) that lives along Lake Michigan about 2 mi from the start says she has seen nothing but wetsuits (primarily quickjohn types) amongst Lake Michigan swimmers. And if these Chicago Yankees need one, you can sho’ bet that a Suth’na from North Carolina like myself will need one. I’m planning to buy one at the expo – if Dan or Paul are willing to deal!!!

Just a friendly word of warning: Go to Ohio Street Beach and swim with your new wetsuit before you race with it to be sure it feels comfortable. I have a friend who at a previous Chicago Triathlon did just as you plan to do, didn’t swim with his brand new wetsuit despite my observing that one should *never* try out new equipment for the first time in a race, and wound up stripping off the wetsuit while holding onto a boat at the side of the swim course during the race.  It was too tight and he felt as if he were going to drown due to lack of air! –Lee ("I like to make my foolish mistakes in private if possible!") Crumbaugh

Response:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ?

Well, no.  Nobody seems to know exactly.   Local cable news network does a boaters forecast and they are listing the temp at 70 as of 7/11.  However the lifeguard trailer just up the way from Ohio St. beach said 64 at 9:30 this AM as I biked down to get my last swim in. Unless you’re some sort of water stud I wouldn’t even consider getting in without a wetsuit.  Three weeks ago I was a  hypothermia-ish at .5 mile WITH a wetsuit.  It aint *that* much warmer. td

Response:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ?

As of 10:00 p.m. CST 070996 water temp was 71 degrees. Not too bad at all. Good Luck!

Response:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ? As of 10:00 p.m. CST 070996 water temp was 71 degrees. Not too bad at all. Good Luck! But remember the water can turn over at a moments notice and churn the temperature greatly.  At Schu’s last year the Lake Michigan water temperature was 79-80F the day before and 58-60F the morning of the race. Todd Jensen

Thank you, Todd!  The Chicago lakefront (and most other lakes, for that matter) are pretty dependent on *surface water* temperature and wind direction.  If the wind has been relatively calm or onshore prior to the race, the temp. will be MUCH warmer than if you have a strong west wind pushing all that nice warm surface water toward Michigan.  If that happens, you get an upwelling of deeper water mixing with the near-shore water, and the temp. drops dramatically.   Rick Teichler                                             Louisville, Colorado) "Usual disclaimers: blame me, not the company that keeps me."

Response:

Anyone know what the water temp has been lately down on the Lakefront ? As of 10:00 p.m. CST 070996 water temp was 71 degrees. Not too bad at all. Good Luck!

But remember the water can turn over at a moments notice and churn the temperature greatly.  At Schu’s last year the Lake Michigan water temperature was 79-80F the day before and 58-60F the morning of the race. Todd Jensen

Response:

Question:

  So, just because it’s not as easy/effective means it’s ok?  Is that   what you’re saying?  So now there are levels of "legal assistance   from another competitor"?  Getting a draft in the swim is Ok but   getting one on the bike is not?  How do you set the limits? The key word is "Significance".  There is absolutely no comparison in the advantage gained by drafting on the bike when put side by side to those gained in the swim and run.  THIS IS WHY IT IS ILLEGAL (for those who consider fair play).  Get it?   True.  But what if you don’t want to "break away"?  The person   drafting is still getting a [currently] legal boost.  Right? Are we talking about the dream team conserving their energy on the last IM Hawaii bike leg?  I just have to be sure here. This whole thread is a red herring, but naturally, this isn’t going to stop those from promoting a ‘modern’, more commercial version of the sport (whatever that may be). Answer the question Larry (a, b, c or d), by now my subsequent news item should have arrived. — Paul Big Ears Menon Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology 124 La Trobe Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3001, Australia Ph: +61 3 9 660 3209/2348 Fx: +61 3 9 662 1617 ICBM: lat 37^ 50′ S long 145^ 0′ E WWW: http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/people/TSG/pnm.html

Response:

                What I will request though is this:                   Do you (Larry or anyone) HONESTLY believe the ITU draft         legal format is fairer than the "purist" format?     In one sense, yes – if athletes in a draft-illegal race are drafting   and not getting caught that is grossly UN-FAIR.  In a draft-legal   race that un-fairness can’t happen. I can only assume this response to be (d) {the Smart Alec response}, as I’d asked for a STRAIGHT response, without ifs, buts, etc… ie, in the TRUE spirit of the question.  I can only assume that if this is the general reasoning, then we should also permit any perfomance enhancing drug an athlete wishes to use, since (as we all know), we can change Larry’s above         "..if athletes in a draft-illegal race are drafting and not         getting caught that is grossly UN-FAIR"                         TO         "..if athletes in a drug-illegal race are using drugs and not         getting caught that is grossly UN-FAIR" I don’t think I need to assure you Larry (or anyone else), that catching draft cheats is a LOT easier and (commercially and legally) feasible than catching drug cheats. This is why I am so vehemently against the way the drafting issue is being treated by the ITU and other draft proponents.  It has nothing to do with fairness, nothing at all.  Quite the contrary.  Admit it, the ITU is only interested in $$$ ("properties"), Mike Gilmore has explicitly said so. If the ITU was genuine in its desire to eradicate drafting, it would have taken a postive step to reduce it in the first place, rather than the commercially driven cop out.  Imagine if the IOC took the same attitude with performance enhancing substances?  This is hypocrisy!!   If you define "fair" as something like "everyone competes solo and gets   no benefit from others" then a draft-legal race is clearly UN-FAIR. Thankyou.  I assume this is response (b).  That’s the spirit of the meaning and that’s what the ITU should be endeavouring to implement. The organisation should ratify, for their OWN benefit (in case they’ve forgotten) that:     (1) Yes, the sport is still a contest of individual, solo, unaided         effort (not what can only otherwise be construed a team oriented         cycle race followed by the rabbits winning),     (2) Yes, through enforcement, they will take ALL measures in making         sure it stays that way!! Regarding a negative response by Larry to the suggestion of an interval start for each athlete (Boring? Athlete can’t see the one ahead, therefore not motivated), well this is already being used in (eg) XC skiing.  And yes, athletes pass each other.  Yes, it’s an individual sport.  Yes, Yes, Yes. But you already know this, the ITU already knows this, the World knows this. Why does it appear that the ITU doesn’t want to accept this as a solution, or even experiment with something like it?  30 second send offs on a swim start will (at Olympic pace) still have folks within 50 odd metres of another.  It will:         (a) Even reduce the red herring of drafting in the swim.         (b) Make any drafting on the bike so obvious that even Blind             Freddy could pick it. But, this has been said before, hasn’t it?  You don’t need to be a genius to think of it, nor one to work out why it isn’t being used. — Paul Big Ears Menon Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology 124 La Trobe Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3001, Australia Ph: +61 3 9 660 3209/2348 Fx: +61 3 9 662 1617 ICBM: lat 37^ 50′ S long 145^ 0′ E WWW: http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/people/TSG/pnm.html

Response:

  So, just because it’s not as easy/effective means it’s ok?  Is that   what you’re saying?  So now there are levels of "legal assistance   from another competitor"?  Getting a draft in the swim is Ok but   getting one on the bike is not?  How do you set the limits? The key word is "Significance".  There is absolutely no comparison in the advantage gained by drafting on the bike when put side by side to those gained in the swim and run.  THIS IS WHY IT IS ILLEGAL (for those who consider fair play).  Get it?

I hear what you’re saying but I disagree with some of it.  Certainly drafting on the run is pretty insignificant (inless there’s a big wind). HOWEVER, in some curcumstances someone drafting on the run could use that to their advantage and win a race that way.  It happened in the NYC marathon this year. In the swim one very large reason drafting is legal is NOT because you don’t gain that much advantage it’s because enforcing a non-drafting swim would be next to impossible.  Trust me on these reasons – I wrote the rules.   True.  But what if you don’t want to "break away"?  The person   drafting is still getting a [currently] legal boost.  Right? Are we talking about the dream team conserving their energy on the last IM Hawaii bike leg?  I just have to be sure here.

I missed your point on that one. This whole thread is a red herring, but naturally, this isn’t going to stop those from promoting a ‘modern’, more commercial version of the sport (whatever that may be).

One thing you must be aware of is that "commercialization" is the way things gain success here in this world.  You may not like that but it’s true. If you want "pros", or beer after races, or races at all, it all depends on money from either entry fees or SPONSORS.  Triathlons are VERY EXPENSIVE to put on.  Withou significant $$ from sponsors we’d see a very different environment for our sport.  Now, that may be good or bad depending on your point of view. —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

  Drafting is unfair, dangerous and has no place in triathlon. Just to play devil’s advocate here . . .    Then why do we allow drafting on the swim and run?   If you "suck toes" during the swim OR sit on someone’s hip running in a wind then you are not participating in an individual sport

I’ve run for many years, and I’ve yet to see a marathon with a pelton swapping turns, playing team tactics, finishing in a 400 meter sprint ect. Drafting doesn’t really work in runing..it’s more mental to remain with someone than a phyisical benefit. The same is really true for swimming too. An individual can break away from a pack of swimmers and runers, no matter how co-ordinated the "drafting" pack is. But not in a bicycle race. So the benefit of drafting in the cycle is *much* more than on the run or a swim. Cheers, Richard

Response:

20% of what, exactly?  

Let me give a quick POOL example.  A good 500 at-the-end-of-practice ALL-BY-MYSELF (for me) would be anywhere just under 5:30, and I’d be pretty much wiped… (i.e. couldn’t repeat it at all.) A couple of years ago while drafting during a swim workout (near the end of the workout) we did 4×500s on 5:45.  We started out the first one around 5:30 and descended to 5:15 by the last one.  I would guestimate, I was easily getting :30 seconds due to the draft and my heartrate was always way below my AT. The above example is how I personnally arrived at the 20%.  Time-wise we were flying, but effort-wise I was just cruising. The point is if you swim a 1:00 100.  The amount of power to swim a 100 in :50 isn’t twice that to swim :55.  It is on the order of 5x – 10x more depending on your technique etc. OBTW, the 20% number was from a group of (30-40) master’s swimmers in Tallahassee who ranged from ex-Olympians to beginners.  20% was sort of the consensus answer and this is why I qualified this as a "guestimate".    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

I would guestimate that you save about 20% while drafting during the swim (if you’re good at it) which is much more than running and hardly miniscule. I hope that you meant something like 1/20 (or 5%), and not 20%.  If I could gain 20% (from :52 for 100yds), then I could draft Matt Biondi. And I can’t.  I think I gain about 2-3 seconds per hundred.

I meant power (watts) not time.  Direct time correlation (especially linearly) is not appropriate; however, power savings is.  Sorry I forgot to add the units.    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

There’s a simple way to stamp out illegal drafting (other than a pump in the spokes), but it requires the full suppport of the ITU and USA-Tri: The directors of all sanctioned events would be required to adequately police their races and report all those penalised for drafting to the sanctioning body.  Any athlete receiving two such penalties within a certain time period would be inelligible for National and World Champs (du and tri) AND any Ironman race. In my experience it is many of the faster age groupers who cheat in this fashion and exclusion from the high profile events may be the threat that would make them think again before sucking wheel.

Makes sense that these are the folks most likely to succumb to the temptation to cheat—they stand to gain most by doing so, unlike us lowly MOPpers and BOPpers. To aid in marshalling, all athletes that are passed by these low-life should be encouraged to report the race number and approximate location. More than two such independent reports should result in disqualification.

This was an idea I put forth several months back when I proposed organizing "Triathletes Against Drafting".  I agree that peer pressure could go a long way in curbing drafting. Also, how about publishing names of the guilty in IT and similar publications so the individuals can receive the scorn and humiliation they deserve!

I also think that the power of public humiliation should not be underestimated!  Sounds like an excellent idea to me. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  /

Response:

      Then why do we allow drafting on the swim and run?  The     draft on the swim is just as un-fair as the draft on the bike.     Are you going to start a movement to ban drafting in all three     events?  If so, please feel free to pen a letter to my committee     (USA Triathlon – Safety & Rules)     If you "suck toes" during the swim OR sit on someone’s hip     running in a wind then you are not participating in an     "individual sport". I’ve heard this one time and time again, and it always gets the simple response: To Larry’s Committee (USA Triathlon – Safety and Rules):     (a) I’ve yet to find someone who can hang onto another’s ‘toes’ in open         water with the same effectiveness as someone sucking another’s wheel.     (b) Ditto with the run.  The ONLY time this is a problem – really high         winds (yes, I’m a runner).     In essence, it’s dead easy to break away from a ‘cheat’ during the swim and     run.  The real problem with _most_ people in the swim is that it’s almost     impossible to identify a good swimmer to tag in the first place, then     you need to hang on.  Case in point – Sanson.     I don’t think I need to speak about how a strong runner can break away     from a pack.  Cases in point – watch replays of last year’s ITU races.     I’ve yet to find someone who can (regularly) break away in similar fashion     from a draft legal pack.  I’m not talking about cycle races where the game     is over after the bike leg. Personally, I detest someone sitting on my shoulder while running.  The last time this happened was during a marathon (last year).  The annoying thing was that this person was doing the half M and I was doing the full, therefore I had to run conservatively.  Nevertheless, I gave him a piece of my mind.  I guess he took the hint. Your turn Larry (or Larry’s Committee),  as far as I’m concerned, this is not a valid argument.   Paul Menon,   Professional Officer,   Dept of Computer Science,   Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology,   124 Latrobe Street,   Melbourne 3001,   Victoria, Australia.             ph:     +61 3 9660 3209/2348       ICBM:   lat 37^ 50′ S long 145^ 0′E fax:    +61 3 9662 1617           WWW:    http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/Staffing/TSG/pnm.html

Response:

Come on, Larry, you know as well as the rest of us that the advantage gained by drafting in the swim or the run is miniscule compared to that gained on the bike. I would guestimate that you save about 20% while drafting during the swim (if you’re good at it) which is much more than running and hardly miniscule.

I hope that you meant something like 1/20 (or 5%), and not 20%.  If I could gain 20% (from :52 for 100yds), then I could draft Matt Biondi. And I can’t.  I think I gain about 2-3 seconds per hundred. Ken Lehner

Response:

I agree with Larry.

   So do I.    Now, do either of you feel that the itu’s solution to that problem has been/will be either fair or effective in solving the problem without creating new/bigger ones? Kurian Davis

Response:

: Come on, Larry, you know as well as the rest of us that the advantage : gained by drafting in the swim or the run is miniscule compared to that : gained on the bike. : I would guestimate that you save about 20% while drafting during the swim : (if you’re good at it) which is much more than running and hardly : miniscule. (I hope this doesn’t come off as an attack on Pat, which it is most definitely not, I started this out with one line asking him for clarification and ended up with a diatribe…) 20% of what, exactly?   A successful swim drafter (which I believe means someone who would be able to hang with the draftee anyway) will save some heartbeats and have fresher arms after the swim but I don’t think it will change his or her time that much.  There is no way that a swimmer "80%" as good as another, by any measure, can draft that other person any more than runners of similarly disparate abilities will stay together.  Swim drafting, like run drafting, is _for practical purposes_ a side effect that manifests itself among peers in the talent pool.  Sure, the toe sucker saves some energy that he might be able to call upon later to put a small move on his "victim", but with or without the draft both of them are still going to be X minutes ahead of truly slower swimmers (that would be me .  The water robs 90-99% of everyone’s effort, slipstream or no.  20% gains/losses/savings are not possible.  20% of something, maybe, but not 20% of anything to do with the final result of a triathlon. Yes, a particular individual with great swim speed from some magical natural or long-ago developed form, yet having a strange boundary on endurance or maximum output, might be able to pop off an otherwise impossibly fast swim leg should he hook up with the perfect leadout.  But that’s an aberration.   We are I assume talking "in general". On the other hand, the effect of drafting on a 20% skew in strength of cyclists can be dramatic.  Put me on the back of a sub 60minute 40K bike pack, and I will finish the bike leg many minutes ahead of where I should, and be far fresher, despite the fact that I could not take a pull if you held a gun to my head.  Extend the bike ride to Ironman distance and I will be a good hour ahead of where I should be (or in an ambulance with somebody’s   aerobar sticking out of my thigh.) Let me put it another way.  Given the perfect swimmer for me to draft (set aside navigation), and the perfect runner for me to draft (no coaching or urging from the rabbits though) I doubt seriously if my finish time in an international distance race would change by more than a few minutes. Throw in the perfect (non motorized) bike draft and I will take 5 times as many minutes off my time (eg. 3 vs 15).  The same is true for almost everybody else. I assert that swim and run drafting, for the purposes of triathlon, are on the same order (or, if you insist, running an order lower than swimming), with bike drafting at least an order of magnitude more significant than either.  Drafting on the bike does not belong in triathlon.   It is nonsensical.  Drafting on the swim and the run are not significant (in the statistical sense), even less so when you consider that they are not unsafe, and are impossible to prevent or even avoid. All just in my opinion, of course. Wade Blomgren

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I will request though is this:   Do you (Larry or anyone) HONESTLY believe the ITU draft legal format is   fairer than the "purist" format? In one sense, yes – if athletes in a draft-illegal race are drafting and not getting caught that is grossly UN-FAIR.  In a draft-legal race that un- fairness can’t happen. If you define "fair" as something like "everyone competes solo and gets no benefit from others" then a draft-legal race is clearly UN-FAIR. —   LSC (aka Larry Chapman)   (970) 229-3117

I agree with Larry. Diana McLaughlin

Response:

    Just to play devil’s advocate here . . .       Then why do we allow drafting on the swim and run?.. My cue.. "Devil’s Advocate":     Also known in Oz as "Shit Stirrer", I don’t use those words though.     Also (In Oz) indicative of someone purporting to be ambivalent to the     issues, but more likely opportunistic or weak of character, perhaps     waiting to see which way the wind blows. I’m not going to pass judgement, that would be silly, unfair and immature. What I will request though is this:   Do you (Larry or anyone) HONESTLY believe the ITU draft legal format is   fairer than the "purist" format?   No ifs, buts, maybes, alsos, or extenuating circumstances – YOUR GUT BELIEF.   Cast aside any position which could affect an HONEST response (heaven   forbid true beliefs getting in the way of committee proceedings or   commercial interests).  I’d suggest EVERYONE can answer this question if they   wanted to.   What is your answer?         (a)     Yes         (b)     No         (c)     I’d like to take the Fifth         (d)     I’ve got a Smart Alec response Once that question is answered, without any overbearing influences, we can then proceed.  All I’ve seen to date is chaff. This is not a slur on anyone, more likely a low tolerance level. Paul

Response:

There’s a big difference between drafting in the swim or on the bike.  A strong swimmer (eg. one of the Sansoms) can still get away from the pack but it’s much harder to outride a group of good bikers working together.

Response:

What I will request though is this:   Do you (Larry or anyone) HONESTLY believe the ITU draft legal format is   fairer than the "purist" format?

In one sense, yes – if athletes in a draft-illegal race are drafting and not getting caught that is grossly UN-FAIR.  In a draft-legal race that un-fairness can’t happen. If you define "fair" as something like "everyone competes solo and gets no benefit from others" then a draft-legal race is clearly UN-FAIR. —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

Come on, Larry, you know as well as the rest of us that the advantage gained by drafting in the swim or the run is miniscule compared to that gained on the bike.

I would guestimate that you save about 20% while drafting during the swim (if you’re good at it) which is much more than running and hardly miniscule.    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

Response:

There’s a simple way to stamp out illegal drafting (other than a pump in the spokes), but it requires the full suppport of the ITU and USA-Tri: The directors of all sanctioned events would be required to adequately police their races and report all those penalised for drafting to the sanctioning body.  Any athlete receiving two such penalties within a certain time period would be inelligible for National and World Champs (du and tri) AND any Ironman race. In my experience it is many of the faster age groupers who cheat in this fashion and exclusion from the high profile events may be the threat that would make them think again before sucking wheel. To aid in marshalling, all athletes that are passed by these low-life should be encouraged to report the race number and approximate location. More than two such independent reports should result in disqualification. Also, how about publishing names of the guilty in IT and similar publications so the individuals can receive the scorn and humiliation they deserve!

Response:

    "individual sport". I’ve heard this one time and time again, and it always gets the simple response: To Larry’s Committee (USA Triathlon – Safety and Rules):     (a)    I’ve yet to find someone who can hang onto another’s ‘toes’ in open    water with the same effectiveness as someone sucking another’s wheel.

So, just because it’s not as easy/effective means it’s ok?  Is that what you’re saying?  So now there are levels of "legal assistance from another competitor"? Getting a draft in the swim is Ok but getting one on the bike is not?  How do you set the limits?     (b)    Ditto with the run.  The ONLY time this is a problem – really high    winds (yes, I’m a runner).

Agreed.     In essence, it’s dead easy to break away from a ‘cheat’ during the swim and     run.

True.  But what if you don’t want to "break away"?  The person drafting is still getting a [currently] legal boost.  Right? —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

Are you going to start a movement to ban drafting in all three events?  If so, please feel free to pen a letter to my committee If you "suck toes" during the swim OR sit on someone’s hip running in a wind then you are not participating in an "individual sport".

"Individual" is a relative term, and drafting is relative in each sport. Drafting on the bike can save around 30% of one’s energy. Just compare your heart rate when you are at the front of a paceline and when you are nicely tucked in ten riders back. Your heart rate could go from 180 bpm to 125 bpm. If you factor in a head wind and a larger group of riders, the benefit of drafting will be greater.   Fact: you cannot coast during the swim or run, but you sure can on the bike. Come on, Larry, you know quite well you will not get the same benefit from drafting in the swim or the run. A 43 min/10K runner is not going to sit on someone’s shoulder and run 30 min. And neither is a 30 min/1.5K swimmer going to be able to draft at 21 min/1.5K pace. On a related note, allow me to vent, whilst I prepare to be flamed: I have seen (too) many  riders gain a HUGE advantage by riding in packs at Mike and Rob’s, and then receive a two minute slap-on-the-wrist penalty. It is a de facto drafting race: gain ten minutes drafting, lose two on the penalty. I am so sick of the cheating at that race, that there is no way I will do it again. Either provide enough deterrent (disqualification) or end the hypocrisy and make it draft-legal (hey, I ride an inexpensive 7-speed steel bike, while others can buy a lot of speed). BIG hills on knobby tires make drafting moot, Cesar Valverde

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Drafting is unfair, dangerous and has no place in triathlon. Please don’t force this issue to ruin triathlon. Wake up and smell the coffee. Triathletes are overwhelmingly against allowing drafting in any triathlons. Please stop allowing drafting. Just to play devil’s advocate here . . .    Then why do we allow drafting on the swim and run?  The draft on the swim is just as un-fair as the draft on the bike. Are you going to start a movement to ban drafting in all three events?  If so, please feel free to pen a letter to my committee (USA Triathlon – Safety & Rules) If you "suck toes" during the swim OR sit on someone’s hip running in a wind then you are not participating in an "individual sport".

Come on, Larry, you know as well as the rest of us that the advantage gained by drafting in the swim or the run is miniscule compared to that gained on the bike.  Also, drafting doesn’t present the safety risks in the other two disciplines that it does on the bike.  You’re on the Safety and Rules committee, you KNOW this is true. I’ll agree with you, I, too, am sick of the drafting issue (even though I’m guilty of perpetuating it on RST myself).  I’ll never race in an ITU race, and I’ll never race in a drafting race (I already did that when I bike raced).  But as much as drafting seems to be the lightning rod issue here, it’s not the only issue; the iron-fisted rule of the ITU is the bigger one.  A number of folks have stated on RST, and I agree with them, that if the ITU behaved in a more democratic manner, they’d be open to the idea of some races being offered as draft-legal.  Sure, what the hell, why not?  It’s something different, and folks could make their own choice whether or not to take part. However, since the ITU is NOT behaving democratically, it’s up to the average Joe Triathlete to take some sort of stand/action in protest.  If we simply say, "Oh, ok, whatever you say, Les," then we really have no right to complain with whatever direction the sport takes under the ITU’s leadership.  And right now, with the direction that the ITU is pursuing, many of us are quite uncomfortable.  We feel strongly that the version of the sport that, courtesy of the ITU, will be offered to the world in the Olympics is NOT representative of real triathlon. I think that’s one place where it does make a difference which "flavor" of the sport is on display.  Sure, let there be different flavors, but in a showcase like the Olympics, why can’t it be the flavor that more folks support? I respect your position, Larry, but I honestly don’t think it’s a good idea to roll over and show our bellies to Les & Co.  I will agree, however, that it’s the selfish bastards who cheat by drafting in drafting-ILLEGAL races that have brought this whole situation to pass. That’s another reason why I think a sort of "peer pressure" movement like Triathletes Against Drafting may have some impact.  I think the concentrated censure of one’s peers can do a helluva lot more than any rules. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  /

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  Drafting is unfair, dangerous and has no place in triathlon. Please don’t force this issue to ruin triathlon. Wake up and smell the coffee. Triathletes are overwhelmingly against allowing drafting in any triathlons. Please stop allowing drafting.

Just to play devil’s advocate here . . .    Then why do we allow drafting on the swim and run?  The draft on the swim is just as un-fair as the draft on the bike. Are you going to start a movement to ban drafting in all three events?  If so, please feel free to pen a letter to my committee (USA Triathlon – Safety & Rules) If you "suck toes" during the swim OR sit on someone’s hip running in a wind then you are not participating in an "individual sport". —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Drafting is unfair, dangerous and has no place in triathlon. Please don’t force this issue to ruin triathlon. Wake up and smell the coffee. Triathletes are overwhelmingly against allowing drafting in any triathlons. Please stop allowing drafting. Just to play devil’s advocate here . . .    Then why do we allow drafting on the swim and run?  The draft on the swim is just as un-fair as the draft on the bike. Are you going to start a movement to ban drafting in all three events?  If so, please feel free to pen a letter to my committee (USA Triathlon – Safety & Rules) If you "suck toes" during the swim OR sit on someone’s hip running in a wind then you are not participating in an "individual sport".

Whoa Larry, I hope you have a lot of room in your e-mail box. ZAG

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 I believe in the same Sisson letter that he explained the executive  committe is made up of people who have been appointed to ITU by the NF’s.  Am I right to assume that to get rid of Sisson, Gilmore, Macdonald, and  Springman we only need to get the NF’s from Great Britain, USA, and  Canada to simply not reappoint these people to the ITU?  And isn’t 1996  the year they come up for reelection?  Sure would be good if it turned  out to be that easy….chuck

You are probably right, BUT only if we can believe what Sisson said in his FAQ post will actually be true at the time we recall these guys.  The itu rules and charter seem to be quite labile.  less would probably change things the minute we tried anything. Have you ever tried to change a tire on a moving bicycle? |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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I believe in the same Sisson letter that he explained the executive committe is made up of people who have been appointed to ITU by the NF’s. Am I right to assume that to get rid of Sisson, Gilmore, Macdonald, and Springman we only need to get the NF’s from Great Britain, USA, and Canada to simply not reappoint these people to the ITU?  And isn’t 1996 the year they come up for reelection?  Sure would be good if it turned out to be that easy….chuck

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Hi all,   I just thought I’d say a few things about Marks letter about the workings etc of the ITU.   Firstly, many of the justifications/reasons put forth for the ITU behavior are along the lines of "Well that’s the way every one else does it" However, most of the statements are laced with cover-you-ass cop outs such as "With a few exceptions", "Virtualy all", "Most NOCs", and so on. This leaves the door wide open for the ITU to do the right thing, however, instead they choose to do things the way they currently do business. The IOC doesn’t REQUIRE them to do things this way.   Mark contends that" The fact that hundreds of athletes earning several millions of dollars a year would be interested in competing JUST (my emphasis) for the "glory" is testimony to the power of the Olympic Movement"   I contend that if Mark is THAT naive, then he is unfit to be part of the ITU!  (ideally suited, but patently unfit!) Mark? did you really expect me to believe that statement?  I certainly hope not. It is frought with arrrogance and stupidity. The reason for the "millionare athletes" competing in the olympics is that for very little extra effort etc, they stand to make even more millions of dollars in endorsements and gain even greater exposure. The "glory" is nice, but is only icing on the mega-dollar cake.   The Founding Federations, in 1989, could not have known that the Olympics would fall from grace so quickly and that the Olympics as some sort of "Holy Grail" is no more. Are we to aspire to such greatness as "sports?" such as Ballroom Dancing? Bobsled? Greco Roman Wrestling? and not to mention Track and Field?  The Olympics may have been seen as the way to the promised land in the next century, back in ‘89, but the end doesn’t justify the means, certainly in light of the recent and ongoing demise of the Olympics. I would also point out that triathlons status in Sydney for 2000 is only "provisional". That rug could (and hopefully will be) pulled out from under us. The sport that is in the Olympics is not triathlon, but a bastard son of triathlon (definitely not the father).   Apparently, the safeguards put in place to protect against anyone or any group taking over the ITU are inadequate. As you point out "the annual session of Congress is ultimately the "Supreme Authority" for all matters, so it can vote for or against anything." The ITU has become a dictatorship rather than a democracy, crushing any grassroots uprisings, or even expelling those that put forth unfavourable contrary opinions. With all that supposed power and a shrinking base of support (from the athletes themselves), surely it can’t be long before the ITU topples. Since the advisory committees are "advisory" only, this means that the executive can act as they please with no controls placed upon them.   In closing I would like to say that the ITU is not our friend. They are no longer responsive to the wishes of the athletes or working with the best interests of the athletes in mind. They act in a very bullying, dictatorial manner. This is unpardonable!   Drafting is unfair, dangerous and has no place in triathlon. Please don’t force this issue to ruin triathlon. Wake up and smell the coffee. Triathletes are overwhelmingly against allowing drafting in any triathlons. Please stop allowing drafting.   Mark, I feel sorry for you and the addiction you have with the ITU. TriDork

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Question:

As a past flamer of Triathlete Magazine and the past pathetic attempts at producing a magazine, Honour now requires me to praise their most recent issue. It is not perfect, and not quite what I’d do if it was my magazine but at least it’s a hell of alot better than issues of recent memory. The womens bathing suit review wasn’t as good as it could have been, but they appeared to be using real triathletes, and actually appear to have tested the suits. Far superior to the wheel and bike reviews? recently. Keep up the work Triathlete, you’re nearly there. TriDork

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I thought Scott Tinley’s article on "Bad Bob" was awe-inspiring, especially for this fellow computer workhorse whose forays into triathlon keep him sane.  However, I would like to hear how some women get involved in triathlon- It seems whenever I suggest to some good female athletes that maybe they should try a tri, they look at me like I was purple. Are we all crazy?  I would hope not. To all the female tri-heads out there: What made you initially take the plunge???? The quest for knowledge continues…. LepperJ PS:  Where did Scott Tinley get that cool hat?????

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: I thought Scott Tinley’s article on "Bad Bob" was awe-inspiring, : especially for this fellow computer workhorse whose forays into : triathlon keep him sane.  However, I would like to hear how some women : get involved in triathlon- It seems whenever I suggest to some good : female athletes that maybe they should try a tri, they look at me like : I was purple. : Are we all crazy?  I would hope not. : To all the female tri-heads out there: What made you initially take the : plunge???? : The quest for knowledge continues…. : LepperJ : PS:  Where did Scott Tinley get that cool hat????? Where did Scott Tinley get THAT cool? TriDork (major Tinley fan)

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I am a female triathlete and have been (sort of) for a couple of years. Thinking back on it I have no real  idea why I tried. I saw the Ironman on TV and thought it was cool.  I also was riding my bike a lot and had been a runner when I was a kid. (Unfortunately I swim like a steam- powered llama) When I found a flyer for a sprint tri with a pool swim I jumped at the chance. You are right though about others and triathlons. I try to get my fitness- oriented  friends (male and female) interested and they always seem to either flat out refuse (I can’t swim, I only have a beach cruiser, running hurts too much) or they agree and then back out later. Tris are not for everyone I know, but I think lots of people would enjoy them if they got over that fear — TRIATHLON!? Those people are nuts! –   S. Sanders

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However, I would like to hear how some women get involved in triathlon- It seems whenever I suggest to some good female athletes that maybe they should try a tri, they look at me like I was purple. Are we all crazy?  I would hope not. To all the female tri-heads out there: What made you initially take the plunge????

Well, let’s see, how did I get started?  Initially I was a cyclist, racing collegiate at Berkeley, then USCF for a couple years after graduation.  I wasn’t *real* serious, and was never competitive.  The highlight of my USCF career was getting 8th place at District Road Racing championships in 89…whoa!  Oh, and 4th place in a time trial once. I dabbled in recreational running here and there, occasionally doing a 10k or the Bay to Breakers.  1990 was the last year I did any USCF racing; I got tired of people taking things too seriously out there, getting too intense in races that weren’t worth it, honest!  Besides, I just was never that good, and when my training buddy went off to college, I lost the drive. About this time, however, a really good friend of mine had taken up triathlons.  Tris had always sounded interesting before, but now I could see firsthand what it was like.  Quite honestly, one of the first things I saw that intrigued me was the weight that my friend shed through all of her training.  I *never* lost much weight just cycling, so I thought, "Maybe this would do it…"  Not that I’ve ever been Rosanne Barr or anything, but I could always stand to drop 15 or 20 pounds (I’m 6′ tall, so take that with a grain of salt!). I started really trying to train in all three sports in February ‘92. That May, I went to Wildflower to watch Ondine race the long course, and I was hooked.  I remember wishing desperately that I could be racing instead of just spectating!  The excitement and the energy were incredible.  All those pretty bikes, and all those pretty boys!  It had all the things I liked about bike racing, and none of the things I hated.  There was nothing like the snobbery and egotism of the cycling scene, and you didn’t have to race in a pack that could potentially eat you for lunch. My first race was the San Jose Danskin that year.  Perfect first experience.  I did two more tris in ‘92, ending the year with my first Olympic distance (or, *nearly* Olympic), the Santa Cruz Sentinel.  My ‘93 season unfortunately was cancelled due to a weird illness, but I came back in ‘94 to race again.  So far, ‘95 is shaping up to be the best year yet. Tris do seem to attract more men than women; I guess maybe it’s that "hard core" image of the sport that worries the gals.  Cycling was sort of the same, come to think of it.  I just really enjoy the cross-training, it keeps things interesting.  I still haven’t lost much weight (!), but I certainly haven’t gained any!  Oh, well, I like racing Clydesdale; I’d never stand a chance of breaking into the top 3 or 4 in my age division anyway, and I’ve already taken a 2nd and a 3rd racing Clydesdale! However, this year I’m really trying to work on shedding the lbs, ’cause I think my running could really improve….not to mention my climbing on the bike. Sorry, didn’t mean to ramble on so, but I love babbling about my favorite sport! Cheers— Tricia

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: I thought Scott Tinley’s article on "Bad Bob" was awe-inspiring, : especially for this fellow computer workhorse whose forays into : triathlon keep him sane.  However, I would like to hear how some women : get involved in triathlon- It seems whenever I suggest to some good : female athletes that maybe they should try a tri, they look at me like : I was purple. : Are we all crazy?  I would hope not. : To all the female tri-heads out there: What made you initially take the : plunge????

WARNING: This is a VERY long response … you’ve touched on a subject that is very important to me! In the July issue of Inside Triathlon there is an article which might provide some insight into this question.  The article explores the question of why there are so many good Australian triathletes. A number of different factors are highlighted as being important including media recognition, local triathlon clubs with coaching, positive role models, etc. There are also a number of small local races which cater to novice racers that are short in distance (S 300m, B 8k, R 2k) and probably (I’m guessing here) inexpensive to enter. Races such as this attract many first time entrants and people who don’t have the time or perhaps desire to train for longer distances. I believe there are a number of important lessons from can learn from the Australians about building grass root support for triathlon (the real key for triathlon to grow, not TV coverage … IMO). I was attracted to triathlon because of what I perceived as the tremendous challenge of combining three different athletic activities into one event and also the individual vs. team nature of the sport. However, I was very timid about competing in my first race and I selected the shortest distance race I could find (R 3mi, B 8mi, S 0.25mi). Many recreational athletes find the thought of running 5K a challenging one and would not even consider it after swimming and biking first. Unfortunately, there are very few races shorter than the average sprint distance around. I am continually trying to entice my co-workers, running friends, and cycling buddies to enter a triathlon.  Things looked hopeful this spring when a very short sprint race was scheduled to occur on the University of Florida campus. The distances were approximately a 200 meter pool swim, 4 mile bike, and a 1.5 mile run. When I mentioned this to several people they ALL said WOW … I could DO that … wouldn’t it be cool to be able to say I did a triathlon! Pepsi was the race sponsor and pulled their funding from the race several weeks before so the race was cancelled. Another point in the article worth considering is the role that local triathlon clubs play in encouraging participation in the sport.  Having a group to socialize and train with can be an equally important part of triathlon as racing is. Also it was mentioned that some of the Ausrtralian clubs get sport specific coaches to come in for lectures and workshops. This is one area were we must commend Tri-Fed for the push to get a listing of local triathlon clubs going One of the things about triatlon that has always appealed to me is that men and women compete in the same race under the same conditions, however some women find this fact intimidating. This is particularly true when you factor in that most of the women will be running around in their swimming suits for at least part of the race. Womens only races, especially at the entry level or short distance would encourage women who have previously been to timid to compete to get out there and give it a tri. The Danskin races meet this need on a small scale, but there is room for a lot more races of this type in other cities, particularly at shorter distances. Triathlon is what keeps my very ordinary life exciting and fun. It encourages me to stay fit at a level I would otherwise never attempt to reach. IMO Tri-Fed, race directors, and actually all of us tri-geeks (is this politically correct since it was printed in Newsweek?) can take away some important lessons from the Australians and I would encourage everyone to read this excellent article by Wes Hobson. Just my $0.02 worth. Lucy If you do not subscribe to Inside Triathlon e-mail me with your address and I will be happy to mail you a photocopy of the article.

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(Mark However, I would like to hear how some women get involved in triathlon- It seems whenever I suggest to some good female athletes that maybe they should try a tri, they look at me like I was purple. Are we all crazy?  I would hope not. To all the female tri-heads out there: What made you initially take the plunge????

Well, I think I’ve already said this before on r.s.t., but I was searching for some motivation to lose some pounds (that had crept back on after losing all of my weight from my pregnancy).  I had built up to jogging a couple of miles, and coincidentally stumbled across a column in the paper about how to train for a triathlon.  It seemed deceptively simple, since it called for about 20 minutes of running, 20 minutes of cycling a few times a week (that was week 1)  I decided to follow the plan until swimming was added.  When swimming was added I managed to find a pool, but I wasn’t going to enter the race.  (All this time I had no idea what the distances for the race were)  When the race information was published, I called for an entry, but I wasn’t going to fill it out.  When I got the entry, I sent it in, but that didn’t mean I was going to do the race.  Of course I did the race, and came face to face with other tri-humans with itty-bitty bathing suits and neoprene skin.  I stuck out like a sore thumb in my pink spandex with my clunker bike, but I finished the dang thing (1.5K, 40K, 10K) and actually liked it.  Loved it.  It was the most physically difficult thing that I had ever done.   That was 1991, and my husband and then 1-year old daughter were there to cheer me on.  By the way, QRman was the author of the infamous training column!      TriGal

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Question:

jj writes: It would be nice (ooops, here I go on another NGB flame) if the NGB’s

are serious about junior development, not to have the worlds in late November when many of these athletes (like Reback and White) are in school and can’t take leave of studies and NCAA athletics to race for the US.<< Might want to consider that for a number of other countries (read World) our summer is their winter. Worlds in late November in the Southern Hemisphere are very fair to roughly 1/3 of the "triathlon" countries. However, August Worlds in US are not. Scott Zagarino

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I Agree. Both Szag’s and the previous Ozzie posts are correct. I’m only talking about juniors and athlete development in the US and the money spent on the junior team. It just seems a waste that all this product sponsorship and funding is being pumped into Team USA juniors and our best athletes can’t go. What is a solution?

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