Question:

I disagree.  I think weight training should be part of every triathlete’s winter training / base training / strength training regimen.  I think that weight training done the right way is a great help to recovery as opposed to a hindrance.  Why?  Because your muscles are stronger and better able to handle the trauma of running hard or long cycling hours, or even swimming tight intervals.  I also think it helps with overall speed.  Why?  Muscular strength translates into speed through its ability to contract and extend faster.  I also think it helps prevent injury. Because it surrounds important ligaments/joints with strong muscle support (support keeps things from falling apart).

A good case for strength training, but not necessarily weight training.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the following, usually going from upper body to lower and back until I’m done: bench (straight, incling, or decline, vary it) leg extensions or seated squats (bad lower back) (alternate) bicep curls lat or row pulldowns calf raises dips/pullups leg curls (hamstrings) situps/pushups occasionally do other specific lifts but the above seem to do the trick…

Try some track work – how about 12*400s or 20*200s. Try some hill reps on your bike, or some 10mile all out efforts. You’ll go faster – guaranteed! Muscular strength is useless in triathlon if it’s not accompanied by a good blood supply. The best place to build muscles is on the road. T

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I agree that those are all good workout ideas for strength/speed.  I already do them or variations thereof.  Let me clarify: I am suggesting weight (or strength as Jeremy pointed out) training during the winter/off season.  at that point in time you don’t want to be doing the kinds of workouts you described below (except maybe long hilly rides).  Try doing what you described below all year and I’ll see you watching from the bleachers in a cast. also note that some people, like myself, don’t carry a whole lot of muscle, and need to do non-tri specific strength work in order to be strong enough to race at a certain level.  If you walk around naturally with a lot of muscle, then I would agree that weight training wouldn’t help you for triathlon.  Us skinny freaks need to do something, however. Marty http://home.mpinet.net/mngaal3/triathlon.html http://www.martygaal.com PS: Thomas said "The best place to build muscles is on the road." -Sounds like a roadie to me

<snip my stuff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try some track work – how about 12*400s or 20*200s. Try some hill reps on your bike, or some 10mile all out efforts. You’ll go faster – guaranteed! Muscular strength is useless in triathlon if it’s not accompanied by a good blood supply. The best place to build muscles is on the road. T

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Try some track work – how about 12*400s or 20*200s. Try some hill reps on your bike, or some 10mile all out efforts. You’ll go faster – guaranteed!

or injure yourself, as I came close to doing with hill running.  The achilles is rather vunerable when you do a lot of steep climbs on hard surfaces. The problem with outdoor training exclusively is that you can’t adjust the weight.  It’s your body.  Not to say that you shouldn’t do some intervals running, and bike climbing days. — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

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The problem with outdoor training exclusively is that you can’t adjust the weight.  It’s your body.  Not to say that you shouldn’t do some intervals running, and bike climbing days.

You can often adjust the resistance.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – also note that some people, like myself, don’t carry a whole lot of muscle, and need to do non-tri specific strength work in order to be strong enough to race at a certain level.  If you walk around naturally with a lot of muscle, then I would agree that weight training wouldn’t help you for triathlon.  Us skinny freaks need to do something, however. Marty http://home.mpinet.net/mngaal3/triathlon.html http://www.martygaal.com PS: Thomas said "The best place to build muscles is on the road." -Sounds like a roadie to me

No, I’m just trying to psychologically prepare myself for the English winter. A warm cosy gym, with sauna, fluffy towels, and attractive women seems infinately more inviting than the prospect of 4hrs alone, soaked to the skin, numb feet, on roads with traffic that gives you no consideration. My main aim for this winter is to improve my running. It’s going to be cold dark lonely nights pounding pavement with a few freezing sessions down at the track. On second thoughts, should those bicep curls be done one arm at a time??? T

Response:

A warm cosy gym, with sauna, fluffy towels, and attractive women seems infinately more inviting than the prospect of 4hrs alone, soaked to the skin, numb feet, on roads with traffic that gives you no consideration.

Are you some kind of pervert? How can the gym possibly be better?Attractive women? you have time for that time of thing? You clearly have a life and interests outside the sport. Wierdo. Phil My main aim for this winter is to improve my running. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s going to be cold dark lonely nights pounding pavement with a few freezing sessions down at the track. On second thoughts, should those bicep curls be done one arm at a time??? T

Response:

I’m curious what type of lower body weight training people are doing for triathlon. Are you doing free weights or machines? How much time per session do you spend, and how many sessions per week do you do? I’m also *very* curious what kinds of results people have had. Have you noticed significant running or cycling speed gains after serious weight training, or have you been disappointed with the results? Thanks! -Harold

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I think weight-training is pretty much a waste of time, particularly for legs, and particularly for triathletes. The only improvements I noticed from weight training were when I gave it up. It’s difficult enough to swim, bike, run, recover and support a family let alone add something which will do nothing for your triathlon goals but eat into your recovery time. T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m curious what type of lower body weight training people are doing for triathlon. Are you doing free weights or machines? How much time per session do you spend, and how many sessions per week do you do? I’m also *very* curious what kinds of results people have had. Have you noticed significant running or cycling speed gains after serious weight training, or have you been disappointed with the results? Thanks! -Harold

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… SNIP Phil (used to do laps of Regents Park) Squire Next time you’re back this way you should do laps of Hampstead Heath. Not only can you get a good hill workout with fantastic views, but when guys come out of the bushes doing up their trousers, I usually get quite startled and manage to put in a 50m sprint.

Been there done that. (the laps of the Heath I should point out!) I lived and went to school in Hampstead and used to do "laps" of the Heath on the roads round, if you follow, like Whitestone Pond, Spainards road Highgate, West Hill, Mansfield Rd, South End Green and then up the lovely East Heath Road. Plus of course lots of various different routes on the Heath itself. I last ran there in 98 and was shocked by the number of dogs and the amount of dog shit. I lived in Estelle road and then moved to Lisburne road, near where the footbridge goes over the railway near Parliament Hill. As for the guys in the bushes… That was more a problem MTBing "over the Spaniards" where my brother once saw a guy sitting on a camping (tee hee) stool with a little sign "Cock Fun" Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – T

Response:

No, I’m just trying to psychologically prepare myself for the English winter. Or you could try the Swedish winter… -25 and dark from 3pm to 9am (more or less) Course the upside is X country skiing, long skating on the lakes and no traffic Phil (used to do laps of Regents Park) Squire

Next time you’re back this way you should do laps of Hampstead Heath. Not only can you get a good hill workout with fantastic views, but when guys come out of the bushes doing up their trousers, I usually get quite startled and manage to put in a 50m sprint. T

Response:

Hi Harold – You can find details about my approach to lifting on my tips page byrn.org/gtips.htm I’ve been doing focused "tri lifting" for two years now.  The main benefit I find is it makes be "tougher" and less prone to injury.  In my first winter of lifting — I noticed a huge increase in my cycling power.  My legs were quite weak two years ago. I also find that leg extentions help me keep my patella happy.  Most the year, I do very little lifting — however, in the winter and spring — I crank it up. My personal preference in multi-joint exercises, particularly for the lower body.  I do very little traditional upper body work.  No bench, military or curls — these were my bread and butter when I was lifting seriously pre-tris.  Now I spend 90% of my time on my lower body and core. With my core, I emphasize low abs, obliques, low back and glutes.  Most people have an imbalance towards their upper abs. In general I have found the older athletes have the most to gain from strength training.  As well, women are able to get a material edge over their competition (my view) if they commit to a focused strength plan. A good resource for a triathlete specific plan is Joe Friel’s, The Triathletes Training Bible.  I have modified Joe’s approach in an article on my site.  It is what my athletes and I use. More on my site.  Good luck. g

Response:

No, I’m just trying to psychologically prepare myself for the English winter.

Or you could try the Swedish winter… -25 and dark from 3pm to 9am (more or less) Course the upside is X country skiing, long skating on the lakes and no traffic Phil (used to do laps of Regents Park) Squire

Response:

No, I’m just trying to psychologically prepare myself for the English winter. Or you could try the Swedish winter… -25 and dark from 3pm to 9am (more or less) Course the upside is X country skiing, long skating on the lakes and no traffic Phil (used to do laps of Regents Park) Squire

Ah yes – I too used to do laps of Regents Park. Many a cold evening running a few times round there. Moved to south London now though. Oddly i find I quite enjoy the cold dark evenings – you get the streets to yourself (bar other runners) so its nice and quiet, and peoples brightly lit houses, showing their nice cosy front rooms give you a real sense of being out there and doing something most people dont do! Rob

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one arm at a time, wearing designer workout clothes, & make sure to drink the latest "advanced recovery drink" at the health bar while posing in the mirror afterwards…heh heh…have fun running in the snow…if possible marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I’m just trying to psychologically prepare myself for the English winter. A warm cosy gym, with sauna, fluffy towels, and attractive women seems infinately more inviting than the prospect of 4hrs alone, soaked to the skin, numb feet, on roads with traffic that gives you no consideration. My main aim for this winter is to improve my running. It’s going to be cold dark lonely nights pounding pavement with a few freezing sessions down at the track. On second thoughts, should those bicep curls be done one arm at a time??? T

Response:

I disagree.  I think weight training should be part of every triathlete’s winter training / base training / strength training regimen.  I think that weight training done the right way is a great help to recovery as opposed to a hindrance.  Why?  Because your muscles are stronger and better able to handle the trauma of running hard or long cycling hours, or even swimming tight intervals.  I also think it helps with overall speed.  Why?  Muscular strength translates into speed through its ability to contract and extend faster.  I also think it helps prevent injury. Because it surrounds important ligaments/joints with strong muscle support (support keeps things from falling apart). I agree that it is time consuming but that’s why most programs advocate lifting in the off months and then staying out of the weight room during the tri season, with the exception being older athletes who stand to lose too much conditioning if they stop the strength work (and full-time pros, you bums ). All that being said, during base or off season I get in the weight room 2-3 times a week for ~40 minutes and do (in general) 3 sets at 12, 10, 8 repeats of the following, usually going from upper body to lower and back until I’m done: bench (straight, incling, or decline, vary it) leg extensions or seated squats (bad lower back) (alternate) bicep curls lat or row pulldowns calf raises dips/pullups leg curls (hamstrings) situps/pushups occasionally do other specific lifts but the above seem to do the trick… marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think weight-training is pretty much a waste of time, particularly for legs, and particularly for triathletes. The only improvements I noticed from weight training were when I gave it up. It’s difficult enough to swim, bike, run, recover and support a family let alone add something which will do nothing for your triathlon goals but eat into your recovery time. T I’m curious what type of lower body weight training people are doing for triathlon. Are you doing free weights or machines? How much time per session do you spend, and how many sessions per week do you do? I’m also *very* curious what kinds of results people have had. Have you noticed significant running or cycling speed gains after serious weight training, or have you been disappointed with the results? Thanks! -Harold

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yeah, in fact if you’re in the 25-30 ag you should stop running too.  I noticed significant improvements after lifting through the offseason this year, esp. in my swimming.  Done properly (i.e. by targeting your weaknesses) you can make huge gains through weightlifting/strength work. Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think weight-training is pretty much a waste of time, particularly for legs, and particularly for triathletes. The only improvements I noticed from weight training were when I gave it up. It’s difficult enough to swim, bike, run, recover and support a family let alone add something which will do nothing for your triathlon goals but eat into your recovery time. T I’m curious what type of lower body weight training people are doing for triathlon. Are you doing free weights or machines? How much time per session do you spend, and how many sessions per week do you do? I’m also *very* curious what kinds of results people have had. Have you noticed significant running or cycling speed gains after serious weight training, or have you been disappointed with the results? Thanks! -Harold

Response:

yeah, in fact if you’re in the 25-30 ag you should stop running too.  I noticed significant improvements after lifting through the offseason this year, esp. in my swimming.  Done properly (i.e. by targeting your weaknesses) you can make huge gains through weightlifting/strength work.

i guess if it helps you depends on 2 things * if lack of strength is your weakness in one of the the sports (see joe friel’s training bible) * if you do some kind of strength training in the sport itself. for if you regularly run hills, additional weight training will not help much more. if you don’t, it will help build some strength. just my 0.02E (euro) phil

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Question:

Suggest you get a second opinion from a sports doc Sue Ross Queenstown Eco Pursuits www.qep.co.nz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All,    I’ve been having pain in my knees for the last two months. Prior to that I was doing alot of running and bicycling (training for my first triathlon) and I guess I just overdid it. The pain isn’t too bad anymore, some days are better than others. The thing that really bothers me is the crunching and popping coming from my knees now. Does anybody have any experiences with this problem. Will my knees ever "tighten up" if I stay off them for awhile? How long should I stay off them? I’ve been to the doctor, and he said everything’s OK. But my knees haven’t felt the same since. My right knee is particularly bad. The kneecap is very loose and I can move it around with my hand? Does anybody else’s knee do this? I’m getting kinda worried. I would GREATLY appreciate any info! Thanks in advance. Greg

Response:

To stretch, stand up, grab your ankle and bring it behind you to your butt.  Hold for a while, release. -S-

There’s a better way to stretch the quadriceps than this method. Lie down on the floor so that you’re on your side. Then, bring both knees up to your chest. Now, move your knee back as far as possible. When you can no longer use your own muscles to move your knee back, use your hand and gently pull a little more. This, by the way, is all in Jim Wharton’s "Active-Isolated Stretching" book. Conal Graduate Student 337 Social Sciences 1 Dept. of Anthropology University of California-Santa Cruz

Response:

The classic solution to "loose" knees is to strengthen the quadriceps. We can all move our kneecaps around with our hands – nothing wrong with that – but you can try strengthening *and stretching* your quads.  Both should be done.

Really? can everyone else move their kneecaps around? Mine are un- movable, maybe that’s been my problem. I agree that stretching is important too. I have had lots of knee problems, and one surgery. Stretching seems to help me more than anything. Also lots of sled work at the gym to strengthen the quads. My knees pop and crack so bad sounds like there’s lots of wicked stuff going on in there, but I think the sound isn’t a problem, since mine have always been a bit noisy even before they started giving me pain. Good luck… Mike Before you buy.

Response:

The classic solution to "loose" knees is to strengthen the quadriceps. We can all move our kneecaps around with our hands – nothing wrong with that – but you can try strengthening *and stretching* your quads.  Both should be done. To strengthen, do the leg extension machine at your gym, or just sit on a table or firm chair and raise your lower leg all the way in front of you, lower and repeat.  For either method of exercise, I recommend you lower the legs about 2/3 of the way, 60-75 degrees, not a full 90 degree bend.  At home, you can throw a gym bag over your foot with a couple of soup cans in it for resistance. Biking, if it doesn’t bother you, is also good for strengthening the quads.  Make sure your bike fits you – this is a complicated subject and if you think you’re not fit right, talk to someone at your local bike To stretch, stand up, grab your ankle and bring it behind you to your butt.  Hold for a while, release. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All,    I’ve been having pain in my knees for the last two months. Prior to that I was doing alot of running and bicycling (training for my first triathlon) and I guess I just overdid it. The pain isn’t too bad anymore, some days are better than others. The thing that really bothers me is the crunching and popping coming from my knees now. Does anybody have any experiences with this problem. Will my knees ever "tighten up" if I stay off them for awhile? How long should I stay off them? I’ve been to the doctor, and he said everything’s OK. But my knees haven’t felt the same since. My right knee is particularly bad. The kneecap is very loose and I can move it around with my hand? Does anybody else’s knee do this? I’m getting kinda worried. I would GREATLY appreciate any info! Thanks in advance. Greg

Response:

Hi All,    I’ve been having pain in my knees for the last two months. Prior to that I was doing alot of running and bicycling (training for my first triathlon) and I guess I just overdid it. The pain isn’t too bad anymore, some days are better than others. The thing that really bothers me is the crunching and popping coming from my knees now. Does anybody have any experiences with this problem. Will my knees ever "tighten up" if I stay off them for awhile? How long should I stay off them? I’ve been to the doctor, and he said I SHOULD be fine. But my knees haven’t felt the same since. My right knee is particularly bad. The kneecap is very loose and I can move it around with my hand? Does anybody else’s knee do this? I would GREATLY appreciate any info! Thanks in advance. Greg

Response:

The classic solution to "loose" knees is to strengthen the quadriceps. We can all move our kneecaps around with our hands – nothing wrong with that – but you can try strengthening *and stretching* your quads.  Both should be done.

If you do try to strengthen your quads be sure to ease into it and to strengthen the completing muscles (in this case I guess it would be the shins or calves…maybe).  Tight quads often is the cause of knee pain so be careful and be sure to stretch. -jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To strengthen, do the leg extension machine at your gym, or just sit on a table or firm chair and raise your lower leg all the way in front of you, lower and repeat.  For either method of exercise, I recommend you lower the legs about 2/3 of the way, 60-75 degrees, not a full 90 degree bend.  At home, you can throw a gym bag over your foot with a couple of soup cans in it for resistance. Biking, if it doesn’t bother you, is also good for strengthening the quads.  Make sure your bike fits you – this is a complicated subject and if you think you’re not fit right, talk to someone at your local bike To stretch, stand up, grab your ankle and bring it behind you to your butt.  Hold for a while, release. -S- Hi All,    I’ve been having pain in my knees for the last two months. Prior to that I was doing alot of running and bicycling (training for my first triathlon) and I guess I just overdid it. The pain isn’t too bad anymore, some days are better than others. The thing that really bothers me is the crunching and popping coming from my knees now. Does anybody have any experiences with this problem. Will my knees ever "tighten up" if I stay off them for awhile? How long should I stay off them? I’ve been to the doctor, and he said everything’s OK. But my knees haven’t felt the same since. My right knee is particularly bad. The kneecap is very loose and I can move it around with my hand? Does anybody else’s knee do this? I’m getting kinda worried. I would GREATLY appreciate any info! Thanks in advance. Greg

Response:

Hi All,    I’ve been having pain in my knees for the last two months. Prior to that I was doing alot of running and bicycling (training for my first triathlon) and I guess I just overdid it. The pain isn’t too bad anymore, some days are better than others. The thing that really bothers me is the crunching and popping coming from my knees now. Does anybody have any experiences with this problem. Will my knees ever "tighten up" if I stay off them for awhile? How long should I stay off them? I’ve been to the doctor, and he said everything’s OK. But my knees haven’t felt the same since. My right knee is particularly bad. The kneecap is very loose and I can move it around with my hand? Does anybody else’s knee do this? I’m getting kinda worried. I would GREATLY appreciate any info! Thanks in advance. Greg

Response:

Question:

The re-air date for the 1999 Ironman Triathlon World Championship is on NBC, July 29 from 4:00 p.m. – 6:00 p.m.

Response:

Does anyone have a copy of NBC’s broadcast of 99 IMH ? Or kow when they might run it again? I missed it and as a result, now I’m very sad. tom p

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Question:

: I agree with RunnerBean. I sense that Oleg has his own rule book and : intepretations. I sense that Oleg has never been a race director before, at : least not at international level events. Your senses apart, let me ask you – did you actually watch what happened or you based your opinion based on "rules" only? So you think that someone who got water 2 meters outside of the tables should automatically get DQ’d? Cause it’s the "rules"? If you watched the marathon you may have noticed how narrow the marathon corridors have been at times, with leading pack being more than 10 women for the first 15-18 miles. If I were you guys, I would complain about that, the marathon organization was clearly far from perfect.Narrow streets, motorcycle getting in the way, waterboys standing in the middle of the street creating havoc. But no, let’s get little japanese guy for trying not to interfere with the pack. He’s the bad guy according to the "rules". What "unfair advantage" are we talking about? Oleg

: :

:

: : I think later tthey said that the guy had a pass and he was actually a : member : of japanese team or something like that – but made some comment about : him giving water outside of some zone or something like that. : In any case, I don’t think it’s an issue that is serious enough to : warrant : medal re-distribution. : : :We had a runner who won in a local marathon years ago who was almost : disqualified :for :taking water from unofficial help. :It was deemed to be unfair assistance. : :Steve : :http://www.wolds-veteran-rc.freeserve.co.uk : :Club based in Grimsby, N.E.Lincs, England. : : —  Oleg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Why not? Doesn’t this fall clearly under "outside assistance?"  What : : if *every* runner had their own personal water attendant at every : : station? Chaos. The rule is intended to prevent exactly what was : : shown. If IAAF ignores it, they’re opening the door to a serious : : problem down the road. : : Mike Tennent : : "IronPenguin" : : Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 : : Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:?? Hmm… didn’t post the first time. I think Mike that’s exactly what they have in WC, Olympics etc. – every runner has their own personal water attendant (a member of the team, coach, etc.) handling their water at the water stations. The rules are – it’s got to be the official "waterboy" with pass and everything, plus the waterboy can only hand out drinks inside the designated water-station areas. As far as I understand, the commentators first made a comment about the japanese guy not being an official "waterboy", but then someone else said that he was a member of the japanese team and had an official pass and everything. Then the commentators said – still, he’s passing the water outside of the waterstation, and he knows it’s against the rules. But I think it was only a few meters down from water station, plus I am sure he just missed his opportunity at the water station (those

women are sure fast), so he ran after her. I don’t think this violation is that serious to warrant anything. It’s still better than what other "waterboys" did – just stood in the middle of the road and were handing out water to their athletes, but also creating a

confusion since some of the other athletes had to literally stop to avoid collision with those guys. —  Oleg

The incident I saw was when the Kenyan runner, who’s based in Japan and has a Japanese coach, got her water it looked as if she got trapped outside by someone cutting in and he had to run after her to give the water bottle a few meters down the road.  I’m not sure if that was the same incident but the commentators did refer to it at the time. phil.

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If you’ll pardon my use of the vernacular… SCREW INTENTION!     I really don’t think it matters whether or not the little waterslave intended to aid his athlete outside of the zone.  It is still against the rules, and should therefore incur repercussions.  I wonder what a cop would say/do if someone said "But officer, I only went 30 in the 50 mph zone.  I thought I could make up the time I lost by going 85 in the 25!" To me it’s the same idea. -Andrew

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I agree with RunnerBean. I sense that Oleg has his own rule book and intepretations. I sense that Oleg has never been a race director before, at least not at international level events. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think later tthey said that the guy had a pass and he was actually a member of japanese team or something like that – but made some comment about him giving water outside of some zone or something like that. In any case, I don’t think it’s an issue that is serious enough to warrant medal re-distribution. We had a runner who won in a local marathon years ago who was almost disqualified for taking water from unofficial help. It was deemed to be unfair assistance. Steve http://www.wolds-veteran-rc.freeserve.co.uk Club based in Grimsby, N.E.Lincs, England.

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If you’ll pardon my use of the vernacular…

Your pardoned SCREW INTENTION!

I will second this intention.:) Did you e-mail the IAAF,  and has there  been anything in the paper about it?

Question:

Well said… Karl M. Schirrmacher "I didn’t get up this early to be disappointed!"

Response:

  Greetings all,   I think every sport has its retro factor. Cycling is full of folks who think bikes should be lugged steel with d/t shifter and riders should wear wool shorts. There are probably hockey fans who think the helmet is a useless piece of equipment, etc. Tri events sometimes require that suits not be worn if racers are competing for prizes. I think these are generally sprint events. I don’t think there is any real rivalry between swimmers and tris. I think most of us came from a AAU/USS/USA swimming background, or running. Interesting thought though. My thoughts, if someone wants to do a tri in a wool one piece swim suit, ride a bike with down tube shifters and brake cable sprouting into the wind and run barefoot, more power to them! They’ll probably get their suffering self phographed for a magazine?  thanks, Jon   I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim. It seems that anyone with "one of them high tech aerodynamic bikes" and a wetsuit

  is a cheater! Them damned triathlon guys have ruined it for everyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now Ive always heard that there was a certain rivalry among tri-geeks and roadies, but the swimmers vs triatheletes is a new one to me.  what about the runners?  BTW, there was a few honest answers to the guy’s question, although i’m not sure he could read them due to his head being gone. Rich "how can I get a GPS readout in my goggles so I won’t have to lift my head up" DaVico —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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 Roadies are jealous. They are narrow in their training and envy your ability to hang with them (or drop them) on a ride and then go for a run. You don’t think long rides in a draft really count as training miles and they do. They don’t understand why you go for a swim instead of waiting for the rain to break so you can ride. They race in very close quarters, have wrecks and are suspicious of other riders who might be able to blame for their crash. Your legs look better shaved because you cycle and run. Any type of training you do helps you prepare for your choosen events. They are just jealous.  Jon "my next bike only race will be on a mtn. bike" Miller

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You think being a triathlete among swimmers is bad? Try being a mountain biker among road cyclists! I am getting into shape for the Washington, D.C. AIDS Ride, so I’ve been training on the road with slick tires. When I pass another roadie heading in the opposite direction, I give a friendly nod. Unfortunately, I am usually ignored. I thought, maybe I’m just imagining this. But yesterday I went on ride with another roadie friend. Every roadie that passed nodded to him, and not to me! I just don’t get it. I have nothing against roadies. In fact I’ve been learning a lot of technique from them, e.g. pedaling efficiency, etc. I feel like the road riding is improving my cycling over all. It’s also a great way to meet new and interesting people. Where does this animosity come from?

As an ex-roadie myself, I can tell you that roadies are notorious bike snobs.  They really look down on "inferior" equipment (and cyclists), and it appears that they regard mountain bikes this way.  I suspect that they feel that anyone riding a mountain bike on the road isn’t a "serious" cyclist, and therefore has nothing in common with them. Now, before all the other roadies out there get their knickers in a twist, I acknowledge that not all roadies are snobs like this.  But it’s true that there is a curious egotism about road cyclists that you don’t find in many other sports.  Road racers are very "cliquish".  They live and die by the group ethic, and therefore they identify themselves very closely with their "group", the peloton.   The very nature of road racing emphasizes the importance of the group; the strength and skill of each individual must be equal to that of the rest of the group in order for a) the group to go as fast as possible, and b) the group to remain safe and UNcrashed.  If you’re not fast/strong enough, you’re off the back and the object of contempt.  If you’re unskilled you can cause crashes, and become the object of contempt, scorn, and pure hatred. It’s a real dog-eat-dog world in road cycling, and if you don’t measure up it’s pretty painful.  Again, there certainly are roadies who aren’t like this, but it’s undeniable that a strong undercurrent of all I mention above exists in the road racing scene. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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there is a curious egotism about road cyclists that you don’t find in many other sports.  Road racers are very "cliquish".  They live and die by the group ethic, and therefore they identify themselves very closely with their "group", the peloton. The very nature of road racing emphasizes the importance of the group; the strength and skill of each individual must be equal to that of the rest of the group in order for a) the group to go as fast as possible, and b) the group to remain safe and UNcrashed

All true.   I also originated as a "roadie" so will add another factor. Roadies feel a little intimidated by a cyclist riding tight in the group that has a different type of equipment .   Mountain bikes have wide handle bars, slow handling and in most cases, not fast enough to hang in.   Tri- bikes have aero bars and usually do not have brakes that responds nearly as quickly as drop bar mounted brake levers.   These things are notoriously famous for causing crashes when riding in tight road groups.    No one likes to crash.  I myself,  do not like the mix when out to do some good peloton riding.   That takes a dedicated type of machinery and skill. As for  swimming with a wet suit I think it’s just fine if the water temp is so low that it could cause safety problems and all contestants are using them.    It would also be ok if when allowed for convenience that they were put into a split start,  first those without and then those with.    If I were a great swimmer and competing in an open water event and placed behind a poorer swimmer with a wet suit I would feel deprived of my glory. Spectators see the first to exit and are often unaware of the technical difference.   I feel the same way about relay teams starting at the same time as "Real Triathletes".    They are a great way to introduce people to the sport but those people are not triathletes.   We just need a little organizing so that the relay teams do not finish first nor the wet suited swimmer where they are a convenience item.    I would believe that swimming events would become far more popular if all had a wet suit division. I think any purest swimmer who snobs a person using a wet suit under well organized conditions should think about tossing their goggles.   Goggles are as much a swimming aid as the suit.   Rich, when you figure out the "GPS in the goggles" let me know.

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: : Come on, what about the mountainous spine of central Florida? : : Hmmm…that must be the long line of overpasses over I95, right? : : The officially listed highest peak in Florida is the man made mountain : for the Thunder Railroad at Disney World. That’s a splendid urban legend, but incorrect.  The "official" Florida high point is Britton Hill at 345 feet: http://www.highpointers.com/stateinfo/fl.shtml "Red Stone Mountain", part of Disneyworld Florida’s Big Thunder Mountain ride in Frontierland in the Magic Kingdom theme park is 179 feet high and on top of that the average elevation in the Orlando area is 106 feet above sea level.  I suppose that the Magic Kingdom ground level could be 60+ feet above greater Orlando, pushing the fiberglass peak of the attraction above 345, but I can’t find any indication of that…and I defy you to ride your bike up Red Stone Mountain, or climb it without getting arrested . There are however plenty of buildings in Florida taller than 345 feet… Wade

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Come on, what about the mountainous spine of central Florida? Hmmm…that must be the long line of overpasses over I95, right?

I-95 doesn’t got through central Florida, Pete.  That’s the Florida. Turnpike.  <g The hills around Clermont have fooled a few of our northern friends who have come down thinking fast and flat. They’re not that big, but they can mess your mind up if you’re not expecting anything. Iron Pete "still feeling the overpass from the cycling course at GCT last year" Priolo

You ought to try finding a hill on coastal Georgia…  We have to use large road kills. Mike "or gators" Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03

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Come on, what about the mountainous spine of central Florida? Hmmm…that must be the long line of overpasses over I95, right?

The officially listed highest peak in Florida is the man made mountain for the Thunder Railroad at Disney World.

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Come on, what about the mountainous spine of central Florida?

Hmmm…that must be the long line of overpasses over I95, right?  ;-) Iron Pete "still feeling the overpass from the cycling course at GCT last year" Priolo

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In article <Pine.PMDF.3.96.990517130101.950012605B- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Greetings all,   I think every sport has its retro factor. Cycling is full of folks who think bikes should be lugged steel with d/t shifter and riders should wear wool shorts. There are probably hockey fans who think the helmet is a useless piece of equipment, etc. Tri events sometimes require that suits not be worn if racers are competing for prizes. I think these are generally sprint events. I don’t think there is any real rivalry between swimmers and tris. I think most of us came from a AAU/USS/USA swimming background, or running. Interesting thought though. My thoughts, if someone wants to do a tri in a wool one piece swim suit, ride a bike with down tube shifters and brake cable sprouting into the wind and run barefoot, more power to them! They’ll probably get their suffering self phographed for a magazine?  thanks, Jon

OK, where do I get the one-piece wool swim suit? I have everything else. Andy A —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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Any relation to Lori?

  Lets see, can’t swim, bike (usually) well, run like a train [ ie once I get my mass trundling along I don't tend to slow down much when I hit things (like the first time I went ski-ing and didn't know how to stop - just aim for the nearest little girl)], hmm seems to be some sort of resemblance there.  Sadly my Canadian heritage is on my mum’s (mom’s) side and I am not aware of any direct link.  Guess who I support for every race she does though . I’m just glad I’ll be to old (and in the wrong country) to face any Reid-Bowden progeny, the Molina-Baker one (Miguel) could be a bit more of a problem.         Thanks Jimmy  -  David (Lori’s got to win Hawaii this year) Bowden

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While I’ve met some serious roadies that are as nice as it gets it has been my experience that many of them look down on triathletes. I find it kind of humorous but I do accept the fact that the nature of the sport breeds that attitude.                                                                         It’s not just triathletes that they seem to disdain but any endurance athlete who’s not a serious roadie. They seem to feel that theirs is the only sport worth doing and I think that’s why ex cyclists are a much lower percentage of triathletes than ex runners and swimmers.   Scott

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As an ex-roadie myself, I can tell you that roadies are notorious bike snobs.  They really look down on "inferior" equipment (and cyclists), and it appears that they regard mountain bikes this way.  

I don’t know how it is in other parts of the country but down here in south Florida the road bike/MTB line has long since been erased. A lot of good, no make that professional, road cyclists do quite a bit of offroad racing with a great deal of success. And for good reason. It’s different. it’s fun and it’s a heck of a good workout… There are only a few die hard "pure roadies" out there any more. Now if we only had some good mountains to play with… Al Kormesser

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Any relation to Lori? Mountain bikers = bad.  Can you believe some don’t even shave their legs (neither do I and they keep crashing into trees.

Oh so true.  Mountain bikes are to road bikes what snowboards are to downhill skiing… hmmm… I should get a mountain bike. Roadies also don’t like trackies (‘cos they’re thick and they crash lots).

Hahaaa!  Yeah, but the poor sots have no brakes or gears! Great post, David!

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Come on, what about the mountainous spine of central Florida? Well….they are sure going to feel like mountains June 5 at Clermont. Mike "this bike must have one more gear" in St. Pete.  Now if we only had some good mountains to play with… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Al Kormesser

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he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim.

Yeah wetsuits are a pretty lame idea for open water swimming, it’s basically cheating, because you aren’t getting the full feel for the water, they keep you unnaturally warm, they make you ride higher in the water so you don’t have to have a balanced stroke…  It’s no less an attrocity than riding a bike with a derrailleur (one gear ought to be enough, right). I think that based on aesthetics alone, any right minded swimmer would rather smear bacon fat all over his/her body to keep warm.  That is an acceptable practice and will allow one to compete for placings. So, don’t misunderstand if I talk about wearing my Farmer John. (I think in the SF Bay area lots of OW swimmers wear neoprene, though with water around 50F I have been a little reluctant to find out for myself.  Not sure I understand the OW Masters / non-triathlon folks…) Eric Pederson — "Real triathletes DRINK draft." "Adventure racers are ready for any eventuality, except the laundromat." —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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Mountain bikers = bad.  Can you believe some don’t even shave their legs (neither do I and they keep crashing into trees.  Roadies also don’t like trackies (‘cos they’re thick and they crash lots).  I think they regard any bike under 7kg or over 11kg as an aberration and the riders of such as something even worse, the respondent who described them/us as cliquish is right.  Personally I wave to any bike including mtn bikes or people just out for some exerrcise on a bike older than I am – I’m just happy to see people bucking the car trend and getting out on two (pedal powered) wheels.  Cars = really bad (‘cept when a race is far away).  In response to the headline question: I meet lots of people who like me (or are at least too afraid of me to say they don’t) but then they find that I don’t do anything but train in my free time which relegates me to being nice to look at.  Just hang out with triathletes – we are modest, intelligent, reasoning, well-mannered, fit, tolerant, good-looking, good-humoured (the list of virtues is endless) if a little single minded (sometimes). I love you all (mtn bikers, trackies, swimmers included)  - David (as long as you don’t ride in my bunch <g) Bowden – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You think being a triathlete among swimmers is bad? Try being a mountain biker among road cyclists! I am getting into shape for the Washington, D.C. AIDS Ride, so I’ve been training on the road with slick tires. (I also swim with a group of triathletes and masters swimmers, but that’s another story.) When I pass another roadie heading in the opposite direction, I give a friendly nod. Unfortunately, I am usually ignored. I thought, maybe I’m just imagining this. But yesterday I went on ride with another roadie friend. Every roadie that passed nodded to him, and not to me! I just don’t get it. I have nothing against roadies. In fact I’ve been learning a lot of technique from them, e.g. pedaling efficiency, etc. I feel like the road riding is improving my cycling over all. It’s also a great way to meet new and interesting people. Where does this animosity come from? Pam   I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim. It seems that anyone with "one of them high tech aerodynamic bikes" and a wetsuit is a cheater! Them damned triathlon guys have ruined it for everyone! Now Ive always heard that there was a certain rivalry among tri-geeks and roadies, but the swimmers vs triatheletes is a new one to me.  what about the runners?  BTW, there was a few honest answers to the guy’s question, although i’m not sure he could read them due to his head being gone. Rich "how can I get a GPS readout in my goggles so I won’t have to lift my head up" DaVico —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.— — SPONSOR ME FOR THE WASHINGTON, D.C. AIDS RIDE! http://www.fluffyfrog.com/AIDSRide 410-225-2467   OR   410-366-4780

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Four words "Deviation towards the mean"  :) Cheers, Walter R. Strapps

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First, I just want to say that if you have ANY opportunity to swim with USMS swimmers, you should do it.  There are a LOT of tri-geeks within USMS.  If you want to swim faster, participation in a USMS workout group is definately one of the better ways to do it. Second, I know what you mean about the wetsuits.  Hey, what can you say? Triathletes are notoriously poor swimmers.  USMS open water swimmers probably consider us poor relations.  Plus, I don’t know about you, but the main reason I wear a wetsuit doesn’t have anything to do with the cold.  I wear it because my body position is poor and it speeds me up:  a LOT. All that having been said, I’ve already sent in my registration for the 2 mile open water national championships, and I’ll be there without a wetsuit turning in a really pathetic performance.  The way I figure, if I can do open water swims in Speedos, then the triathlons, where I’ll be wearing a wetsuit, are a breeze.  So far, that’s held true. As for cycling, everything was cool until aero bars came into the picture. At first, the cyclists were using them, then they outlawed them for everything but time-trials.  Hey, in my book, real cyclists don’t draft.  To them, drafting and packing up are part of the strategy of their sport. As for running, it sure seems like triathletes are NOT an uncommon sight in running clubs.  There are a lot of strong runners in the triathlete ranks. I think runners are probably the most tri-tolerant. To me, the bottom line is that triathlon is not the combination of 3 separate sports:  it’s a unique sport with 3 separate components.  We train differently, we race differently, and we view each discipline differently. Plus, honestly, USMS has probably enjoyed some rather substantial growth due to triathletes, and who the heck would be buying all these road bikes if not for tri-geeks.  Bad enough to go into a store and see 1,000 mountain bikes and 12 road bikes.  Imagine if triathletes were not part of the market. We’re actually bringing attention to their sports and expanding the rolls with enthusiastic participants.

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I personally witnessed the same resistance to wetsuits in the early 80’s. Coming from a running background, I relied heavily on my wetsuit to get from point "A"  to point "B". The "Triathletes" coming from elite swimming back grounds were the last to accept wetsuits during competition. The wetsuits became more appealing when everyone realized that they could extend their race seasons. This was very important to the professional Triathlete who needed to race frequently in order to make ends meet. We now see the strongest swimmers in the sport on the starting line wearing full wetsuits whenever possible. This has less to do with water temperatures and more to do with the energy saved to utilize on the bike and run segments. I am beginning to see the same trend with "USMS" swimmers. We are finding the open water swimmers becoming more and more interested in our wetsuits. "USMS" will have a choice to make. "USMS" can extend their competitive season by allowing wetsuits, or continue to have a  limited open water venue. Keith Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim. It seems that anyone with "one of them high tech aerodynamic bikes" and a wetsuit is a cheater! Them damned triathlon guys have ruined it for everyone! Now Ive always heard that there was a certain rivalry among tri-geeks and roadies, but the swimmers vs triatheletes is a new one to me.  what about the runners?  BTW, there was a few honest answers to the guy’s question, although i’m not sure he could read them due to his head being gone. Rich "how can I get a GPS readout in my goggles so I won’t have to lift my head up" DaVico —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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You think being a triathlete among swimmers is bad? Try being a mountain biker among road cyclists! I am getting into shape for the Washington, D.C. AIDS Ride, so I’ve been training on the road with slick tires. (I also swim with a group of triathletes and masters swimmers, but that’s another story.) When I pass another roadie heading in the opposite direction, I give a friendly nod. Unfortunately, I am usually ignored. I thought, maybe I’m just imagining this. But yesterday I went on ride with another roadie friend. Every roadie that passed nodded to him, and not to me! I just don’t get it. I have nothing against roadies. In fact I’ve been learning a lot of technique from them, e.g. pedaling efficiency, etc. I feel like the road riding is improving my cycling over all. It’s also a great way to meet new and interesting people. Where does this animosity come from? Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim. It seems that anyone with "one of them high tech aerodynamic bikes" and a wetsuit is a cheater! Them damned triathlon guys have ruined it for everyone! Now Ive always heard that there was a certain rivalry among tri-geeks and roadies, but the swimmers vs triatheletes is a new one to me.  what about the runners?  BTW, there was a few honest answers to the guy’s question, although i’m not sure he could read them due to his head being gone. Rich "how can I get a GPS readout in my goggles so I won’t have to lift my head up" DaVico —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

– SPONSOR ME FOR THE WASHINGTON, D.C. AIDS RIDE! http://www.fluffyfrog.com/AIDSRide 410-225-2467   OR   410-366-4780

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  I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim. It seems that anyone with "one of them high tech aerodynamic bikes" and a wetsuit is a cheater! Them damned triathlon guys have ruined it for everyone! Now Ive always heard that there was a certain rivalry among tri-geeks and roadies, but the swimmers vs triatheletes is a new one to me.  what about the runners?  BTW, there was a few honest answers to the guy’s question, although i’m not sure he could read them due to his head being gone. Rich "how can I get a GPS readout in my goggles so I won’t have to lift my head up" DaVico —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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 I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim.

    A few years ago I did a couple of USMS open water swims for training.  In both cases there were only one or two other people there wearing wetsuits, and boy did we stick out like sore thumbs!  And to add insult to injury, those of us with wetsuits were not even listed in the official results sheet–as far as the organizers were concerned, we were persona non grata.  It wasn’t a very friendly environment and I haven’t been back.         The majority of swimmers feel that dealing with cold water is a very important part of open water swimming.  Count me out! A cold-water wimp (and proud of it), Steve Gregg  

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A few years ago I did a couple of USMS open water swims for training. And to add insult to injury, those of us with wetsuits were not even listed in the official results sheet-

If it was an official sanctioned USMS race you wouldn’t be scored if you wore a wetsuit. Same as if you wore a wetsuit in a USAT race over 78 degrees F. Or whatever the ruling on temperature is this year.. Al Kormesser

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Well I like them just fine! <g People are misunderstood by other people. Groups of people are just as misunderstood by other groups. We tend to fear what we do not understand or are not familiar with (think of that first open water swim). It’s not surprising to me when I find someone with a less than familar attitude towards what I consider normal. Four days per week I train in 3 different endurance sports, and 2 of the other 3 I practice two of them. This is not normal by any means. It makes us seem almost superhuman to a large contingent of the population, though you and I know it’s just that you have to get used to it and be dedicated. Day by day over the years you add up a ton of capability, and what used to seem possible is now mundane. Many "pure" cyclists are wary of riding with triathletes, for good reasons – we (many of us) are unfamilar with pace line ettiquette, they have heard aerobars are dangerous, and they freak out when they see a guy/gal willing to pull a whole group into a headwind with no trepidation. Leading is natural to us, we never get to draft! Swimmers feel much the same – imagine being a great swimmer and realizing that a not as great swimmer just exited the water ahead of you due to a wetsuit! It happens. Unfortunately for that great swimmer the wetsuit won’t have as dramatic an effect on the good swimmer’s performance as it will on the not so good swimmer. Purists of any type seem to snub the triathlete – admittedly, some of are really good at all 3 sports or even extremely good at one of them, but we’re not typically as good as people that do one sport exclusively. I’ve had roadies tell me that they very much admire our ability to ride alone for hours on end, and pull endlessly into winds with no complaining (they must not have heard me), and that they get pretty pissed off when a local triathlete rides with the bike club, at their pace, and then jumps off of the bike when they’re all done their workout and goes for a long run! Kind of humbling to someone that thinks he/she just did a pretty good workout. Triathletes are a odd breed – granted, and we’re different for sure, that doesn’t mean we’re universally disliked. Heck, nobody needs fear me, my physical prowess is challenged only by my spelhing abhilitee. Schwing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I just finished reading a thread in rec.sport.swimming, where the original poster was asking for opinions on Ironman and QR wetsuits.  The poor guy was drilled with responses implying that he wouldn’t make it into Heaven if he dared wearing a wetsuit in an openwater swim. It seems that anyone with "one of them high tech aerodynamic bikes" and a wetsuit is a cheater! Them damned triathlon guys have ruined it for everyone! Now Ive always heard that there was a certain rivalry among tri-geeks and roadies, but the swimmers vs triatheletes is a new one to me.  what about the runners?  BTW, there was a few honest answers to the guy’s question, although i’m not sure he could read them due to his head being gone. Rich "how can I get a GPS readout in my goggles so I won’t have to lift my head up" DaVico —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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Question:

Finally got the race pack, having entered back in April. I’ll be there. Are you ready for it?!! First timers like me? How has your season been so far? Any goals/predictions for the big day? Anyone want to share a Travel Lodge room or similar? I have yet to book something for Sat & Sun evening (organised as ever, oh well, there’s always my tent!). The weather for the day is forcast to be truly awful, but then most of my long rides (all 3 of them!) and runs have been done in the rain. I haven’t really hit too many of my training goals for the year, but too late to worry now. At least I think I know what to do to improve next year. The main thing I can say about this year is that I have really enjoyed the sport, apart from going through a chequebook in 2 days back in April entering races. I have been ‘racing’ nearly every weekend since the end of May, with a few mid-week things too. Mainly sprints, but a couple of Olympics. In general I have been about 60% placed by swim time, 20% placed by bike time, and top 5% run time, with a final position in top 15-20%. Being a lousy swimmer is great, as I get the constant thrill of chasing people down for the rest of the race. At least I am now front-crawling all the way round swims this year, and am confident I will make the 2.4 miles in under 1hr25. Going for 5hr30 on the bike and a 3.30 on the run. Target 10hr30 total, although everyone seems to say not to have a goal other than to finish. Having 2 weeks off, then races on 30 Aug, 6, 13 and 27 Sept and maybe Chicago Marathon on 11 Oct. No lay off for me! Give me a nudge at the pasta party, or if we pass during the race. I’ll be the guy on the ‘Slingshot’ bike and the Motorola jersey. Names from RST I am expecting include: Tim Grose (Are you still doing it?) Joel Sylvester Adrian Wynne Dianne Wynne If anyone wants a free bedspace for the Swindon triathlon, my house is about 1/2 mile from the start, so let me know. — Motorola Triathlon Club (Now with Wings) SWINDON UK

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Finally got the race pack, having entered back in April. I’ll be there. Are you ready for it?!! First timers like me? How has your season been so far?

Early on training went really well. I reckon I’ve done around 6 bikes of 100 miles (or 6+ hours) and about another 8 over 80 miles (or 5 hours). Probably around 4 or 5 runs over 20 miles and lots over 13. Lately it’s gone a bit badly – first I was overtrained and had to miss a hard week. Then I got the lurgy from Ironbridge half IM and missed another week. Then it was straight into a 3 week taper so I’ve done no long stuff for a long time. I have minimal lactate tolerance after all the long stuff which translates to lousy speed over short distances (time trials, sprint tris etc) but I reckon that’s not important in the scheme of things. Any goals/predictions for the big day?

Goals : – finish – with dignity – and have fun Predictions (for what they’re worth): – swim 1:15 to 1:20 – bike 6:30 to 7:00 – run 4:00 total time if everything goes perfectly will be around 11:30 – 12:00, but I’ve no idea how I’ll cope on the marathon. It could be nearer 15:30. The weather for the day is forcast to be truly awful

What? Are you pulling my leg? It’s hot and sunny at the moment and the forecasts I’ve seen say it looks set to cool down a bit on friday but still be nice. I haven’t seen any forcasts for Sunday. Where do you get such long-term forcasts from anyway? Most things I’ve seen are only a few days ahead. but then most of my long rides (all 3 of them!) and runs have been done in the rain. I haven’t really hit too many of my training goals for the year, but too late to worry now. At least I think I know what to do to improve next year.

It certainly is too late to worry. Just eat, drink and rest. How long were your long rides? If they’re less that 80 miles I don’t envy you. BTW, last 15 miles of my first 100 were in a blizard! The main thing I can say about this year is that I have really enjoyed the sport, apart from going through a chequebook in 2 days back in April entering races. I have been ‘racing’ nearly every weekend since the end of May, with a few mid-week things too. Mainly sprints, but a couple of Olympics. In general I have been about 60% placed by swim time, 20% placed by bike time, and top 5% run time, with a final position in top 15-20%. Being a lousy swimmer is great, as I get the constant thrill of chasing people down for the rest of the race.

Eek. How do you find time to train with all that racing? Do you not work during the week? Please tell me you _did_ train … At least I am now front-crawling all the way round swims this year, and am confident I will make the 2.4 miles in under 1hr25. Going for 5hr30 on the bike and a 3.30 on the run. Target 10hr30 total, although everyone seems to say not to have a goal other than to finish.

Fast target. You must have a bigger base than you’re letting on. Hope it goes well. Having 2 weeks off, then races on 30 Aug, 6, 13 and 27 Sept and maybe Chicago Marathon on 11 Oct. No lay off for me!

My next "big thing" will be London Marathon next April – I just posted off my guaranteed entry form. Give me a nudge at the pasta party, or if we pass during the race. I’ll be the guy on the ‘Slingshot’ bike and the Motorola jersey. Names from RST I am expecting include: Tim Grose (Are you still doing it?) Joel Sylvester Adrian Wynne Dianne Wynne

See you there, and good luck. adrian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone wants a free bedspace for the Swindon triathlon, my house is about 1/2 mile from the start, so let me know. — Motorola Triathlon Club (Now with Wings) SWINDON UK

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snipped stuff about Longest Day Give me a nudge at the pasta party, or if we pass during the race. I’ll be the guy on the ‘Slingshot’ bike and the Motorola jersey. Names from RST I am expecting include: Tim Grose (Are you still doing it?)

If by ‘it’ you mean tri/du then yes indeed am off to Germany for the World Duathlon next week. I’m afraid I’m not a very long-distance man like yourself – your racing schedule makes me tired just reading it! Good luck for the race. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joel Sylvester Adrian Wynne Dianne Wynne If anyone wants a free bedspace for the Swindon triathlon, my house is about 1/2 mile from the start, so let me know. — Motorola Triathlon Club (Now with Wings) SWINDON UK

– Tim Grose Please remove xxx if replying

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Finally got the race pack, having entered back in April. I’ll be there. Are you ready for it?!! First timers like me? <snip , and am confident I will make the 2.4 miles in under 1hr25. Going for 5hr30 on the bike and a 3.30 on the run. Target 10hr30 total, although everyone seems to say not to have a goal other than to finish. Having 2 weeks off, then races on 30 Aug, 6, 13 and 27 Sept and maybe Chicago Marathon on 11 Oct. No lay off for me!

I can only conclude one of three things: 1) This guy is pulling our leg 2) This guy has lost his mind 3) This guy is going to be on the podium next year in Hawaii. In all seriousness, have a great race!  We hope to see a race report! -Jack

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Oh no, says its not so… All through the pishy weather I’ve been tapering throught the last week I thought how pleasant it would be to be racing in all the nice sunshine you’ve been having down south. Bum. See you Saturday Clive! Joel — Joel Sylvester Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/edin_tri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The weather for the day is forcast to be truly awful, but then most of my long rides (all 3 of them!) and runs have been done in the rain. I haven’t really hit too many of my training goals for the year, but too late to worry now. At least I think I know what to do to improve next year.

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Add Tom "The Pukester" Cunningham to the list. My first full IM and I am psyched.  I don’t know whether I am more psyched to race or just to start the taper.  Anyhow, I fly in on Thursday, early afternoon, and then have to figure a way from the SF airport to the Ramada in Santa Rosa. Anyone know the best way to get there? (I don’t want to rent a car if I can avoid it).  Also, anyone know how far it is from the Ramada to race start? -pukey

 Pukey, There is a bus that comes to Santa Rosa from the airport which is creatively named the "Airporter."  The number is 707-545-8015.  A couple of my friends who are professional cyclists use it fairly often so I am sure they can accomdate your bike.  Enjoy your trip to Sonoma County, home of some the best cycling in the world (hey, who says I am biased). Jim Ross Kendall-Jackson/Ibis Racing President, Sonoma County Cycling Association

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I’ll be there for the 1/2. Hope to put Wildflower debacle behind me, and put a good training day in for IMC. See you at the races! Look for Daisey the wonder dog!

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I’m going for my first IM, and I have never been so excited for anything before.  My car has malfunctioned this summer, so this will also be my first race of the season.  BTW, I haven’t recieved my race info packet yet.  Should I have? The Bertha Gary P. Chimes MD/PhD Student

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I’ll be there for the 1/2. Hope to put Wildflower debacle behind me, and put a good training day in for IMC. See you at the races! Look for Daisey the wonder dog! -Chris Mueller..

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I’ll be making the trek up from SoCal for my first 1/2 Ironman.  Will be staying at the Ramada. Ron Urman

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My packet arrived yesterday (Monday July 7).  The replacement fluid is something called Race Day that I’ve never heard of before.  Guess we’ll see. tc

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A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else? Tri-Baby

I’ll be there for the Half. Jeff.

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Add Tom "The Pukester" Cunningham to the list. My first full IM and I am psyched.  I don’t know whether I am more psyched to race or just to start the taper.  Anyhow, I fly in on Thursday, early afternoon, and then have to figure a way from the SF airport to the Ramada in Santa Rosa.   Anyone know the best way to get there? (I don’t want to rent a car if I can avoid it).  Also, anyone know how far it is from the Ramada to race start? -pukey

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A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I’ll be there for the half-IM on Saturday and the officials clinic on Sunday.  This is gonna be a blast! The Carmel Group "Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win."  R.A.H.

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me too! doing the 1/2. -Jan Hobbel

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Color me in that picture too. I’ll be there with hope and fire and maybe even a little bit of fitness. It will be my first California Tri so I hope to see what all the fuss is about. Treemoss2 (Ken Lotze)

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A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Who else?

Me. Lee Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else?

Me!  I’m volunteering–most likely at the swim section–see you iron animals there! Melanie Mociun – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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A quick list of those I believe are planning on being at Vineman: Joel Sylvester Jeff Andres Kathy Matejka Augie Calabrese Mike Valleriano Who else? Tri-Baby

I’ll be there for the full Vineman. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

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My taper will be an 11hr flight on the Thursday*, I’ll be driving up from SF on Friday and I’m staying at the Ramada until Sunday. I get the impression a lot of RSTers will be there, so who am I going to meet?

TriBaby will be there for her final race before the IMC taper begins! Looking to defend her ‘96 Women’s Clydesdale championship in the half IM. See you there! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my big day out this year. I’ve put my $80 on the line and I’m hauling my bike and wetsuit across the pond to complete my first 1/2IM. Nothing like turning up to the conference a day later feeling totally wasted. My employers think this is a business trip – well my quest to do a 1/2IM is unfinished business… My taper will be an 11hr flight on the Thursday*, I’ll be driving up from SF on Friday and I’m staying at the Ramada until Sunday. I get the impression a lot of RSTers will be there, so who am I going to meet? Looking forward to it, Joel

The money hasn’t been committed, the heart continues to race, the mind wonders, "Will I make it out of the water?" The ride, Oh, Yes the ride..what happens after the ride! Ouch! 13.1 used to be a cake walk..now it appears as though this could be the end! Wavering, but probably going to be there.. Third weekend in a row of races…no tapering

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This is my big day out this year. I’ve put my $80 on the line and I’m hauling my bike and wetsuit across the pond to complete my first 1/2IM. Nothing like turning up to the conference a day later feeling totally wasted. My employers think this is a business trip – well my quest to do a 1/2IM is unfinished business… My taper will be an 11hr flight on the Thursday*, I’ll be driving up from SF on Friday and I’m staying at the Ramada until Sunday. I get the impression a lot of RSTers will be there, so who am I going to meet? I’m easily identified, I’ll be the pale skinned one with the English accent in a sea of tanned Californian Tri-gods. I mean, they’ll be people there, who, well, have like *done* IMH (iamnotworthyiamnotworthy). I’ll probably be standing looking upwards wondering what that big bright hot thing in the sky is, and why I’m not getting wet. Looking forward to it, Joel

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Question:

There is someone who can suggest me the recipe for Power bars? I would like to make them at home! Thanks a lot, ciao — |         Fulvio Pecorari             ////                  SELFIN S.p.A.   | |    Lotus Notes & Media Group      ////                  Via C.Colombo 112 | |           Coordinator             ////                  00147 ROMA ITALIA | | Fax    +39 (0)6 5181068              WWW    http://www.selfin.it          | |             Say what you do. Do what you say. Write it down!              |

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There is someone who can suggest me the recipe for Power bars? I would like to make them at home!

Hi, I posted a recipe at http://www.run-bike.com/wonderland/spot.html for some bars that were originally posted on rec.sport.triathlon….they taste great and can be modified for various uses ( hi carbo, hi protein etc..) check it out…if you don’t have web access email me and i will send you a copy.. Josiah JOnes http://www.run-bike.com/wonderland

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PERHAPS KATTIE YOU SHOULD GET ALIFE AND GET OUT OF THIS SPORT PC

Does this belong to RST ??? I thought that this newsgroup was different, but not anymore… Paulo

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Nope, Bernie Sher is NOT Tri-Dick.  BS is Tri G y…Check the j facts…..

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Bernie’s the man….!  I wish that is who I was, but I am much older and not even close in the looks department.  Oh yeah, I am a poor lover as well (according to Diana).  Whatever… I still hold to my first point that Gina Derks will sell a hell of alot more magazines than Erin Baker and those extra copies sold at the newstand are the ones that will fall into the hands of someone who might take up the sport.   love and kisses TriDick p.s.  Diana…what is a g spot?

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What is mcmeat now trying to take over tridicks crown as master (flame)baiter? TriRef

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PERHAPS KATTIE YOU SHOULD GET ALIFE AND GET OUT OF THIS SPORT PC

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Katherine Williams here again: Perhaps a new thread might move us away from Tridick’s dribbles. Aside from Trijerk, has been most interesting to see the responses of others on the Gina Derks cover story. One point has not been noticed, nonetheless. Who here can remember the uproar on RST when the DeBooms appeared on the April ‘95 (I think) cover of Triathlete? They were slammed because 1) They looked good; and 2) They were first-year pros who hadn’t yet done anything in the pro ranks. Seems like Gina Derks is in the same category. Oh, yes, let me point out that, like Katovsky told us, she does have some talent. She finished 16th in the ITU World Cup- Drummondville race (and that was very competitive, you know). And that qualified her for the World Championships in Cleveland. I want to back up for a minute. As a cover choice, I like Derks. She’s new, pretty and popular. But cover choices don’t always have to have a story on the inside — sometimes covers can stand alone, as often occurs with Inside Triathlon covers. What I felt was a bit premature was 31/2 pages devoted to her on the inside. After all, if "Gina’s Genes" is the best headline the headline-writers could come up with, it strikes me that the story was full of fluff. Two more points: 1) To "wenge" is to complain mightily (an Australian word). And 2) Tridick is really Bernie Sher of Florida. Katherine Williams

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Aside from Trijerk, has been most interesting to see the responses of others on the Gina Derks cover story. One point has not been noticed, nonetheless. Who here can remember the uproar on RST when the DeBooms appeared on the April ‘95 (I think) cover of Triathlete? They were slammed because 1) They looked good; and 2) They were first-year pros who hadn’t yet done anything in the pro ranks.

Speaking of the Debooms, how are they doing this year? Diana

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Question:

if you would like results please contact us for them or our calendar listing for the rest of 1995. we are lin-mark computer sports of mantua nj

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Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: Netcom if you would like results please contact us for them or our calendar listing for the rest of 1995. we are lin-mark computer sports of mantua nj

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