Question:

Finally, someone with my attitude! "I think its great that you are running, swimming period. Keep up the good work and have fun. That’s all it should be about anyways, isn’t it? " Kathryn message Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

 First of all, you didn’t mention your height. That does make a difference.

It is a damn shame you didn’t consider this point when you were disparaging the original poster over his weight and attempting to correlate that to his ability or otherwise to run.  Second of all, a first class runner is capable of running 5:30 per mile for distance runs of up to at least 10 miles every workout he runs. However, most will probably vary the quality running some 10 mile runs around 5 minutes per mile and other workouts for recovery around 7 minutes or maybe even slower.  However, for your weight it’s not bad for just a workout considering you are in the middle of a heavy week and probably training for a triathlon or maybe crew.

This is the main thing that ticks me off about your pontifications.  You are making judgements about people and their abilities based upon extremely limited information.  You have ignored/overlooked important factors like: biological age, training age, anthropomorphic details and the physical environments in which they train/compete. I will not guess at what the original poster’s potential ability might be until I have all of the above information.  Instead, I would encourage him to seek out a qualified coach to help him understand the importance of all of these factors and to help him achieve the synergy required to reach his potential.   snip   You have the potential of running faster when you are lighter and the heavier you are, the less likely you can run as fast.   Even if you are training for a triathlon you don’t need to be that heavy. Bring it down and your training and racing performance will improve.

I can only agree with this statement if you are defining _heavy_ as overweight and you have no information available to you that would support your making such a judgement about me or the original poster.  FYI, I stand at 190 cm (6 feet 3 ins) and am hovering at just under 10% body fat (weekly skinfolds for the past 6 months), that means that I am at the lower end of the range that a lot of experts consider health.  As far as the other important data is concerned my biological age is 44 years and my training age is 37 years. The bottom line is you pissed me off with your high and mighty attitude towards a person about whom you knew squat.  Do us all a favour and gather some facts in future before you start pontificating about an individual should or should not be able to achieve. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking macelroy’s comments as a troll but cannot resist biting. I weigh 194 lbs (not 200 lbs but close enough) and can tell you that coincidentally my coach had us do a 8 km (approx 5 mile) time trial this morning and I posted 33:35.72 for the distance, which works out to be approx 6:43.14 per mile.  This is nowhere near my best as we are in the middle of a _very_ heavy week but, if in your view, or in comparison to you, this means I can’t run worth a shit or that I can’t run well then you must be an absolute champion.  Will I see you in Sydney with your country’s Olympic Team? Sheesh, who the hell made you the expert on how heavy/light a person should be before they can run worth a shit? Andy  Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. I’d be REAL careful about telling big people they can’t run worth sh*t. Those kinds of things come back to haunt you. I know several 200 lb types who can get it on pretty well. One is training for his first Ironman.  When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. And maybe you should go back under the bridge you crawled out from under. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38 Before you buy.

Response:

  First of all, you didn’t mention your height. That does make a difference.   Second of all, a first class runner is capable of running 5:30 per mile for distance runs of up to at least 10 miles every workout he runs. However, most will probably vary the quality running some 10 mile runs around 5 minutes per mile and other workouts for recovery around 7 minutes or maybe even slower.   However, for your weight it’s not bad for just a workout considering you are in the middle of a heavy week and probably training for a triathlon or maybe crew.    I can assure you, you will not achieve first class running workouts or times with that kind of weight unless possibly you are about 6 feet 6 or taller. And even then I’m not sure you can achieve fast times. I’ve seen guys about 6 feet 2 and around 190 run some pretty decent half miles but longer than that no. John Walker, former world record holder in the mile was a pretty big guy but he was not 190. Probably in the mid 170s.    Jack Bachelor was Frank Shorter’s training partner and mentor and had much better times than Frank at first. Bachelor also made the Olympic team in the Marathon at Munich. Bachelor was 6 feet 6 and 165 pounds.    You have the potential of running faster when you are lighter and the heavier you are, the less likely you can run as fast.    Even if you are training for a triathlon you don’t need to be that heavy. Bring it down and your training and racing performance will improve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking macelroy’s comments as a troll but cannot resist biting. I weigh 194 lbs (not 200 lbs but close enough) and can tell you that coincidentally my coach had us do a 8 km (approx 5 mile) time trial this morning and I posted 33:35.72 for the distance, which works out to be approx 6:43.14 per mile.  This is nowhere near my best as we are in the middle of a _very_ heavy week but, if in your view, or in comparison to you, this means I can’t run worth a shit or that I can’t run well then you must be an absolute champion.  Will I see you in Sydney with your country’s Olympic Team? Sheesh, who the hell made you the expert on how heavy/light a person should be before they can run worth a shit? Andy  Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. I’d be REAL careful about telling big people they can’t run worth sh*t. Those kinds of things come back to haunt you. I know several 200 lb types who can get it on pretty well. One is training for his first Ironman.  When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. And maybe you should go back under the bridge you crawled out from under. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

Before you buy.

Response:

This is the main thing that ticks me off about your pontifications.  You are making judgements about people and their abilities based upon extremely limited information.  You have ignored/overlooked important factors like: biological age, training age, anthropomorphic details and the physical environments in which they train/compete. I will not guess at what the original poster’s potential ability might be until I have all of the above information.  Instead, I would encourage him to seek out a qualified coach to help him understand the importance of all of these factors and to help him achieve the synergy required to reach his potential.

Let me just add that honestly none of us here can predict or help someone to guess their potential ability without actually meeting them face to face and watch them run through a period of time. And even then, most of us here (myself included) are not qualified to coach or even judge someone’s potential ability. Only a properly trained coach could do that. C

Response:

 You see the trouble with this is that running requires precision training to get the best results. You can’t just all of a sudden run your most advanced running a few days before the race and expect good results.

     This I realised even then. But the challenge was whether I could finish in the official cut-off time of 3 hours and I did. As in another thread said, there was no requirement that you ran all the way without stopping or walking.  If you are up to it, I strongly suggest that you try to run this race again sometime because you obviously did not hit even near your potential when you had to stop and walk.  And remember, no one can legitimately say that they RAN a race when they had to stop and walk part of it. You owe yourself another chance.

    Since then I ran two more half marathons without walking and both times I could finish in 2.15 hours. But I don’t mind walking in the upcoming November marathon if I cannot run all the way as long as I can finish in the official cut-off time of 6 hours. My purpose in running a marathon for the first time is to see if I can do it. The same as my acceptance of the challenge of my running friend if I could run half marathon with only one month preparation and got the finish medal. I did. And that was good enough for me. Wasantr Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I’m taking macelroy’s comments as a troll but cannot resist biting. I weigh 194 lbs (not 200 lbs but close enough) and can tell you that coincidentally my coach had us do a 8 km (approx 5 mile) time trial this morning and I posted 33:35.72 for the distance, which works out to be approx 6:43.14 per mile.  This is nowhere near my best as we are in the middle of a _very_ heavy week but, if in your view, or in comparison to you, this means I can’t run worth a shit or that I can’t run well then you must be an absolute champion.  Will I see you in Sydney with your country’s Olympic Team? Sheesh, who the hell made you the expert on how heavy/light a person should be before they can run worth a shit? Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. I’d be REAL careful about telling big people they can’t run worth sh*t. Those kinds of things come back to haunt you. I know several 200 lb types who can get it on pretty well. One is training for his first Ironman.  When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. And maybe you should go back under the bridge you crawled out from under. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

Response:

  You see the trouble with this is that running requires precision training to get the best results. You can’t just all of a sudden run your most advanced running a few days before the race and expect good results.   If you are up to it, I strongly suggest that you try to run this race again sometime because you obviously did not hit even near your potential when you had to stop and walk.   And remember, no one can legitimately say that they RAN a race when they had to stop and walk part of it. You owe yourself another chance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, about the 12 minute miles, I am not running a marathon tomorrow so this isn’t an issue that concerns me. I’m sure with proper training I will get to the point where I can run at a faster pace.    Jason, I can relate to your experience. Three years ago, I started swimming, with 5 minutes non-stop and gradually build it up until I can swim 1 hour non-stop after one year. I swam only once a week. Then about two years ago, I took up mountainbiking which cut down sharply on my swimming as I incurred injuries practically every weekend and the wound did not heal that fast for me to chance swimming. Those two activities did build up my cardiovascular base so much that I took up a challenge from a running friend at the office to run half marathon with only one- month preparation.    Again, I emulated my swimming experience, starting to run continuously for ten minutes and gradually increased it until three days before race day that I could run one hour continuously without suffering much. This I could do in a relatively short time because I am fit aerobically.    Then came the race day (midnight start time in October last year). I could run the first 10K in exactly one hour, but I struggled badly after 12K, had to run/walk most of the way due to knee and feet hurting so much. Even then I could finish in 2.30 hours with the last 11K taking 1.30 hours.     So I could say that you can increase your pace/distance in a short time as we are strong aerobically. But listen to your body. Make sure that you are not hurt. As long as you don’t hurt and feel pain, do whatever pace/distance you are comfortable with. Since then, I have run 5 10K and 3 half marathons. I am now training for this coming Novembe marathon.     I believe that you can run a marathon in one year or less from now if you keep at it.      BTW, I still keep on swimming and biking and will also enter my first triathlon competition in December, one month after the marathon too. Wasantr from Bangkok, Thailand, a land of hot and humid weather, most year-round. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Response:

Also, about the 12 minute miles, I am not running a marathon tomorrow so this isn’t an issue that concerns me. I’m sure with proper training I will get to the point where I can run at a faster pace.

   Jason, I can relate to your experience. Three years ago, I started swimming, with 5 minutes non-stop and gradually build it up until I can swim 1 hour non-stop after one year. I swam only once a week. Then about two years ago, I took up mountainbiking which cut down sharply on my swimming as I incurred injuries practically every weekend and the wound did not heal that fast for me to chance swimming. Those two activities did build up my cardiovascular base so much that I took up a challenge from a running friend at the office to run half marathon with only one- month preparation.    Again, I emulated my swimming experience, starting to run continuously for ten minutes and gradually increased it until three days before race day that I could run one hour continuously without suffering much. This I could do in a relatively short time because I am fit aerobically.    Then came the race day (midnight start time in October last year). I could run the first 10K in exactly one hour, but I struggled badly after 12K, had to run/walk most of the way due to knee and feet hurting so much. Even then I could finish in 2.30 hours with the last 11K taking 1.30 hours.     So I could say that you can increase your pace/distance in a short time as we are strong aerobically. But listen to your body. Make sure that you are not hurt. As long as you don’t hurt and feel pain, do whatever pace/distance you are comfortable with. Since then, I have run 5 10K and 3 half marathons. I am now training for this coming Novembe marathon.     I believe that you can run a marathon in one year or less from now if you keep at it.      BTW, I still keep on swimming and biking and will also enter my first triathlon competition in December, one month after the marathon too. Wasantr from Bangkok, Thailand, a land of hot and humid weather, most year-round. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

  Swimming and running can go well hand in hand as you say like with the triathletes. But have you ever seen the winners of triathlons. They are not in any way shape or form 6 feet, 255 pounds.   And yes, I have seen some good swimmers convert to good runners in a short period of time like about 6 months with not that great amount of difficulty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. Hmm…that’s a bit harsh. I would say that cardiovascularly, swimming is different from running. Being good in swimming doesn’t mean one will necessarily be good in running. As far as I understand, swimming uses a lot of the upper body for propulsion while it is the lower body for runners. The upper body for runners is really just the stability portion of the whole person. I’m no expert in swimming, but the fact that triathletes and duathetles swim and run and many can do them well, would show that swimming and running can go hand in hand together. How to do that, I don’t know. I’m just a runner. C

Before you buy.

Response:

I think its great that you are running, swimming period.  Keep up the good work and have fun.  That’s all it should be about anyways, isn’t it? Kathryn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. I’d be REAL careful about telling big people they can’t run worth sh*t. Those kinds of things come back to haunt you. I know several 200 lb types who can get it on pretty well. One is training for his first Ironman.  When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. And maybe you should go back under the bridge you crawled out from under. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38   I know my wieght is a problem, but I figure if I keep exercising that will come off.  And actually, I don’t know what people think of when they think 255 lbs., but just from looking at me you may not be able to tell how overweight I was. Most people guessing my weight are at least 30 lbs off. No one ever believes that I weigh 255 lbs. Most people think I weigh about 220-225. I’ve never met anyone who has guessed more than that. But this is a moot point anyway, because I am sure my weight will come down. Also, about the 12 minute miles, I am not running a marathon tomorrow so this isn’t an issue that concerns me. I’m sure with proper training I will get to the point where I can run at a faster pace. All this has nothing to do with the original post though.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. I’d be REAL careful about telling big people they can’t run worth sh*t. Those kinds of things come back to haunt you. I know several 200 lb types who can get it on pretty well. One is training for his first Ironman.  When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. And maybe you should go back under the bridge you crawled out from under. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

  I know my wieght is a problem, but I figure if I keep exercising that will come off.  And actually, I don’t know what people think of when they think 255 lbs., but just from looking at me you may not be able to tell how overweight I was. Most people guessing my weight are at least 30 lbs off. No one ever believes that I weigh 255 lbs. Most people think I weigh about 220-225. I’ve never met anyone who has guessed more than that. But this is a moot point anyway, because I am sure my weight will come down. Also, about the 12 minute miles, I am not running a marathon tomorrow so this isn’t an issue that concerns me. I’m sure with proper training I will get to the point where I can run at a faster pace. All this has nothing to do with the original post though.

Response:

Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority. When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation.

Hmm…that’s a bit harsh. I would say that cardiovascularly, swimming is different from running. Being good in swimming doesn’t mean one will necessarily be good in running. As far as I understand, swimming uses a lot of the upper body for propulsion while it is the lower body for runners. The upper body for runners is really just the stability portion of the whole person. I’m no expert in swimming, but the fact that triathletes and duathetles swim and run and many can do them well, would show that swimming and running can go hand in hand together. How to do that, I don’t know. I’m just a runner. C

Response:

  Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority.   When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation. In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  You should stop all swimming and any upper body training and use the running to lose weight. Bleh!!! Gimme a break! <g He shouldn’t stop swimming or weight work. They’ll probably decrease as his running increases, but there’s nothing inherently bad about either. He probably burns more calories doing a quality swim workout than he does running. If he had indicated that he wanted to become the absolute best/fastest runner he could be, then he might consider cutting them out. But he didn’t say that. I agree that he’s a big guy, but I don’t think swimming isn’t the reason. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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Response:

. I’m no expert in swimming, but the fact that triathletes and duathetles swim and run and many can do them well, would show that swimming and running can go hand in hand together. How to do that, I don’t know. I’m just a runner. C

Yes, but you have good instincts. <g There’s no conflict between running and swimming. I actually use one of my swimming days as a rest day for my legs. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

Response:

 Let’s put it this way. He isn’t going to run worth shit at 255 pounds. And actually, he’s not even going to run well at 200 pounds. So he has a damn hell of a lot of weight to lose and that should be his first priority.

I’d be REAL careful about telling big people they can’t run worth sh*t. Those kinds of things come back to haunt you. I know several 200 lb types who can get it on pretty well. One is training for his first Ironman.  When he’s talking about running 3 miles in 12 minutes per mile. Hell, why run when most people walk that fast. If he decides to run a marathon and runs 12 minutes per mile — that would be about 6 hours. Maybe he should just stick to swimming so he doesn’t have to go through the body transformation.

And maybe you should go back under the bridge you crawled out from under. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

Response:

Most reasonably good runners I know at 6 feet tall are not much over 170 pounds. I would definitely shoot for under 200 pounds. I believe that losing weight here is critical if you want your running to be comfortable.

The other thing it seems to me is that it is better to be shorter in height for runners. OF course, that’s not something we can change. We aren’t going to chop off bits of our torsos or whatnot. But I can tell the difference. Pacing with my regular pace group, there are 3 guys who are much shorter than me. While I’m light, I’m also taller than them (5′9"). Now, it’s actually an average height, but compared to those 3 guys, I am tall. The taller one is, the more surface area we have to cut through air. Now…only if they came up with some medicine to shrink us "taller" folks ha! C

Response:

 You should stop all swimming and any upper body training and use the running to lose weight.

Bleh!!! Gimme a break! <g He shouldn’t stop swimming or weight work. They’ll probably decrease as his running increases, but there’s nothing inherently bad about either. He probably burns more calories doing a quality swim workout than he does running. If he had indicated that he wanted to become the absolute best/fastest runner he could be, then he might consider cutting them out. But he didn’t say that. I agree that he’s a big guy, but I don’t think swimming isn’t the reason. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

Response:

I don’t recall the original poster asking for weight loss advice.  He merely asked if he was running too far each day.  If he’s comfortable running at his current weight, leave him alone.  As for giving up swimming and weight lifting, I don’t recall him asking for advice on whether to give up those activities either. dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Well, if you have been swimming regularly then you have the physical stamina to do physical things no matter what they are. Your leg muscles will need to gradually adapt to the pressure of gravity which you weren’t getting with swimming but that should not take longer than 3 weeks.   The thing I am most concerned about is your weight. Swimmers, of course, tend to develop much upper body mass which is completely detrimental to running. 255 pounds is way way way to heavy to run comfortably.   You should stop all swimming and any upper body training and use the running to lose weight. Go out on long 2, 3, 4 hour walks or day long hikes with no food. Diet if you have to. That upper body bulk will eventually come off but it will take some time like about 6 months to a year.   Most reasonably good runners I know at 6 feet tall are not much over 170 pounds. I would definitely shoot for under 200 pounds. I believe that losing weight here is critical if you want your running to be comfortable. Hi all, I am a swimmer mostly. I have been swimming all my life. I stopped for awhile, but have been swimming 4 times a week the last few months. Recently though I started running and thinking about doing a marathon with my uncle who does them all the time. When I run my cardio is good, because I’ve been swimming. I thought this might be the case, and now I just wanted to get my legs and body into running shape. I have been doing the workout suggested to me. I started two weeks ago doing 1 miles a day, that felt pretty fine. My legs still needed to get into shape, but still felt ok, so I just started doing 2 mile easy runs.  One day that week I was going to do a 3 mile long run, I felt so good I did 4.  Last week, staying at 2 miles, I was going to do another 4 mile long run, but I felt really good and did 5. This week I am doing 3 miles as my easy run, and am planning on doing a 6 mile long run. I have been going very slowly, a 12-minute-mile pace. I don’t know if I can do faster right now, but I have been doing speed work. I am heavy, 255 lbs, 6 ft tall. I am wondering if I am pushing myself too hard too fast. My knees aren’t hurting me, my ankles feel fine. My muscles aren’t even getting very sore after long days. I just figure if I can push myself, I should. Am I wrong? Should I stick to 5 mile long runs for awhile, even if I can do more? Thanks, Jason Before you buy.

Response:

    IT is difficult to make a general statement, but it sounds like you may be going at it a little strong.  The general rule is to increase distance no more than 10% per week.  This gives time for all parts to build up to the task. — Dia’s Muire duit Joe M

Response:

  Well, if you have been swimming regularly then you have the physical stamina to do physical things no matter what they are. Your leg muscles will need to gradually adapt to the pressure of gravity which you weren’t getting with swimming but that should not take longer than 3 weeks.   The thing I am most concerned about is your weight. Swimmers, of course, tend to develop much upper body mass which is completely detrimental to running. 255 pounds is way way way to heavy to run comfortably.   You should stop all swimming and any upper body training and use the running to lose weight. Go out on long 2, 3, 4 hour walks or day long hikes with no food. Diet if you have to. That upper body bulk will eventually come off but it will take some time like about 6 months to a year.   Most reasonably good runners I know at 6 feet tall are not much over 170 pounds. I would definitely shoot for under 200 pounds. I believe that losing weight here is critical if you want your running to be comfortable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am a swimmer mostly. I have been swimming all my life. I stopped for awhile, but have been swimming 4 times a week the last few months. Recently though I started running and thinking about doing a marathon with my uncle who does them all the time. When I run my cardio is good, because I’ve been swimming. I thought this might be the case, and now I just wanted to get my legs and body into running shape. I have been doing the workout suggested to me. I started two weeks ago doing 1 miles a day, that felt pretty fine. My legs still needed to get into shape, but still felt ok, so I just started doing 2 mile easy runs.  One day that week I was going to do a 3 mile long run, I felt so good I did 4.  Last week, staying at 2 miles, I was going to do another 4 mile long run, but I felt really good and did 5. This week I am doing 3 miles as my easy run, and am planning on doing a 6 mile long run. I have been going very slowly, a 12-minute-mile pace. I don’t know if I can do faster right now, but I have been doing speed work. I am heavy, 255 lbs, 6 ft tall. I am wondering if I am pushing myself too hard too fast. My knees aren’t hurting me, my ankles feel fine. My muscles aren’t even getting very sore after long days. I just figure if I can push myself, I should. Am I wrong? Should I stick to 5 mile long runs for awhile, even if I can do more? Thanks, Jason

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi all, I am a swimmer mostly. I have been swimming all my life. I stopped for awhile, but have been swimming 4 times a week the last few months. Recently though I started running and thinking about doing a marathon with my uncle who does them all the time. When I run my cardio is good, because I’ve been swimming. I thought this might be the case, and now I just wanted to get my legs and body into running shape. I have been doing the workout suggested to me. I started two weeks ago doing 1 miles a day, that felt pretty fine. My legs still needed to get into shape, but still felt ok, so I just started doing 2 mile easy runs.  One day that week I was going to do a 3 mile long run, I felt so good I did 4.  Last week, staying at 2 miles, I was going to do another 4 mile long run, but I felt really good and did 5. This week I am doing 3 miles as my easy run, and am planning on doing a 6 mile long run. I have been going very slowly, a 12-minute-mile pace. I don’t know if I can do faster right now, but I have been doing speed work. I am heavy, 255 lbs, 6 ft tall. I am wondering if I am pushing myself too hard too fast. My knees aren’t hurting me, my ankles feel fine. My muscles aren’t even getting very sore after long days. I just figure if I can push myself, I should. Am I wrong? Should I stick to 5 mile long runs for awhile, even if I can do more? Thanks, Jason

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know anything about this race (Wilkes-Barre Triathlon)?  I can’t seem to find anything about it anywhere.  It’s in the race schedule in the back of Triathlete Mag.  but there isn’t a phone number or address or anything.  Does anyone know where I can get an entry form? Thanks Marc

Try www.wilkesbarretriathlon.com. They even have an on-line registration form. I think it’s $55 or $60 to enter, and it’s an international distance (1500m swim, 40K bike, and a little over 10K run). I might be up there, but I’ll have to see. Good luck. Paul Mulvey

Response:

Hey Marc:  Try <http://www.lin-mark.com./index.shtml to answer all your questions.  Good Luck and have fun.  Dave <www.allshave.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know anything about this race (Wilkes-Barre Triathlon)?  I can’t seem to find anything about it anywhere.  It’s in the race schedule in the back of Triathlete Mag.  but there isn’t a phone number or address or anything.  Does anyone know where I can get an entry form? Thanks Marc

Response:

Does anyone know anything about this race (Wilkes-Barre Triathlon)?  I can’t seem to find anything about it anywhere.  It’s in the race schedule in the back of Triathlete Mag.  but there isn’t a phone number or address or anything.  Does anyone know where I can get an entry form? Thanks Marc

Response:

Question:

<snip   paulo, posting to this thread, made the statement, "an extreme position is when the armrests are below the saddle height."  actually, an extreme position is when the armrests are WAY below the saddle height.  my armrests (i’m 6′2") are 15cm below my saddle height.  my wife (5′6") has armrests 8cm below her saddle height.  most people fall inbetween these two armrest drop quantities.  this will yield a pretty aggressive position, and a pretty comfortable and powerful one as well.

<another snip You got me wrong there Dan. I said that ironically, like what happens in "the real world of triathlon". Believe me, after reading so many of Andy’s posts on extreme positions, I actually think that 15cm is pretty conservative Paulo 13cm and counting…

Response:

With all our discussions on "extreme aero positions" and "draft-free races" we forget that this is the real world. In the real world of triathlon, people have aerobars on their bikes only because they look cool and the pros use them. They seldom ride them in training or racing.

????? !!!!!!  I guess I’m not a "people", then. In the real world of triathlon most people ride in packs, only breaking up when they hear a motorcycle.

Where are you racing? A large part of the people competing doesn’t even think that it’s a big deal if they’re drafting and if they do, they’ll forget all about it when competing. In the real world of triathlon the AG men will follow a woman racer if they get passed, it’s like an attack on the peloton. In the real world of triathlon, people speak up against drafting on this forum, then write race reports where they state how they chatted with someone on the bike(they must have very powerful voices and define a chat as a 30sec exchange), or you can find their names on the those un-marshalled race series.

This has got to be one of the most depressing posts I have ever read. Paulo, is it really THAT bad where you race?   I don’t know what to say to this.  Maybe it’s uglier and more cutthroat up in the fast areas of the race, but back where I am, I see very little intentional drafting.  Most of the drafting I do see is the result of ignorance on the part of novice racers—they just don’t know any better. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

Not to reopen any old discussions, but just in case anybody is wondering: I’m 6′0", and have my elbow pads about 20 cm below my saddle. However, I’m also more extended than what Dan advocates, so effectively the drop is really more than that – if I pull my arms back towards my torso, my elbows go down, and I’d have to put the elbow pads about 25 cm below the saddle to avoid changing the height of my shoulders. I think that Dan’s formula is very useful in that it gives people a reasonable starting point  for establishing just where their elbow pads should be. However, since elbow pad height is defined relative to saddle height (and thus leg length), it may not work all that well for people w/ extreme proportions. A couple of visual checks that I find useful are: 1) compare the relative heights of the hip (greater trochanter) and shoulder (acromion process). 2) assess the height of the knee at the top of the stroke relative to the upper arm (humerus). Again, to avoid reopening any old debates, I’m not going to state any opinions here – I simply wanted to suggest a couple of ways I find useful for "eyeballing" somebody’s position. Andrew Coggan You got me wrong there Dan. I said that ironically, like what happens in "the real world of triathlon". Believe me, after reading so many of Andy’s posts on extreme positions, I actually think that 15cm is pretty conservative Paulo 13cm and counting…

Response:

I don’t know much about the Columbia triathlon itself, since I haven’t lived here long enough to witness it. I do routinely ride the roads that are used, though, and so have to wonder – just what "tight turns" and "screaming downhills" are you refering to? If you ran a bicycle road race over the same course, people would be complaining that the course wasn’t challenging enough to break up the field (though it is probably rolling enough to discourage drafting in a tri). I guess it all depends on your perspective… Paulo…are you sure you did the Columbia Triathlon?  Because your recollection of the race and it’s drafting is totally untrue!!     I’ve done many of Vigorito’s races and all of them are clean and well marshalled. Columbia of all races is one where drafting is almost impossible if not insane.  First of all, the course is too hilly and second of all, too technical and dangerous with the tight turns and screaming downhills.  On top of that, there are marshalls all over the place.

Andrew Coggan

Response:

Agreed Mike, we’ve got another troll on our hands.  Nice try… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paulo, If you were so disappointed you should have told the organizers. You know, I have the Saturn Colombus Classic Official entry form and brochure and it includes quotes from athletes. Including: "I had a great time in Dublin, the race was very well organized, and it was a very good experience" Paulo Sosa, Portugal LOL.   So which was it, Paulo?  "A very good experience" or a "disgrace"? Both are your words. Mike "Can we say the word troll?" Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Columbus was a lot worse. The RD didn’t provide motorcycles for the USAT officials. It was a disgrace out there, it looked like a cycling race. The best part was these people with "Team USA" singlets passing me in big packs. The race was a worlds qualifier btw. I could go on and on with the episodes from this race. Paulo, If you were so disappointed you should have told the organizers. You know, I have the Saturn Colombus Classic Official entry form and brochure and it includes quotes from athletes. Including: "I had a great time in Dublin, the race was very well organized, and it was a very good experience" Paulo Sosa, Portugal

LOL.   So which was it, Paulo?  "A very good experience" or a "disgrace"?  Both are your words. Mike "Can we say the word troll?" Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

Response:

Sorry, this post goes here… Paulo…are you sure you did the Columbia Triathlon?  Because your recollection of the race and it’s drafting is totally untrue!!  I’ve done many of Vigorito’s races and all of them are clean and well marshalled. Columbia of all races is one where drafting is almost impossible if not insane.  First of all, the course is too hilly and second of all, too technical and dangerous with the tight turns and screaming downhills.  On top of that, there are marshalls all over the place.  Take a look at the penalties in the results of this race and you’ll see that your recollection of the race has been "lost in the translation" In addition, you appear to be a hypocrite in that you condemn drafting, but freely admit to breaking the rules by crossing the yellow line in the same race!!!  An automatic DQ!!  Are some rules ok to break and others cardinal sins? You also appear to be a good runner and a poor biker from the sounds of it…Sounds like you might be a Euro drafter trolling this group since you’re more apt to draft to gain advantage during the run.

Response:

Paulo, If you were so disappointed you should have told the organizers. You know, I have the Saturn Colombus Classic Official entry form and brochure and it includes quotes from athletes. Including: "I had a great time in Dublin, the race was very well organized, and it was a very good experience" Paulo Sosa, Portugal

I went through my email records, and found that I indeed wrote a thank you note to the race organizers, and that the quote is from my email. So I would like to publicly apologize to HFP for calling them unscrupulous, and for accusing them of inventing a quote from me. However, I just want to put my thank you note in it’s proper context. I wrote it before knowing that it was the RD’s fault that there were no motorcycles on the course. At the time I blamed the officials for that, and of course the competitors that didn’t race clean, not the RD. Only later was I told of what had really happened, and that it normally happens at the HFP races. Paulo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where are you racing? Here and THERE! Here when I hear a motorcycle, I just check to see if I have my race number is in the right position, since most races are draft-legal, and the few ones that aren’t are raced very fairly. But let’s talk about the there…last year I raced twice in the US, Columbia Triathlon and the Saturn Duathlon in Columbus OH, and was I disapointed! All this talk here about draft-free races, and when I get to the actual races, it was same shit different country! In Columbia there were people riding together everywhere, but because the course is somewhat hilly, they weren’t gaining much of an advantage. So the real problem was blocking…for several times I had to cross the yellow line to pass people riding side by side. On two ocasions when the motorcycle was heard I had people ahead of me brake to get away from the wheel they were sucking and I actually passed them. In Columbus was a lot worse. The RD didn’t provide motorcycles for the USAT officials. It was a disgrace out there, it looked like a cycling race. The best part was these people with "Team USA" singlets passing me in big packs. The race was a worlds qualifier btw. I could go on and on with the episodes from this race. A large part of the people competing doesn’t even think that it’s a big deal if they’re drafting and if they do, they’ll forget all about it when competing. In the real world of triathlon the AG men will follow a woman racer if they get passed, it’s like an attack on the peloton. In the real world of triathlon, people speak up against drafting on this forum, then write race reports where they state how they chatted with someone on the bike(they must have very powerful voices and define a chat as a 30sec exchange), or you can find their names on the those un-marshalled race series. This has got to be one of the most depressing posts I have ever read. Paulo, is it really THAT bad where you race? Actually it’s not, it’s pretty exciting if you’re a good runner, don’t mind the crashes and don’t know what the hell a triathlon or a duathlon is/was supposed to be. But I have to admit one thing. It’s a fair race. The good part is that most bike courses are very challenging, and makes for balanced races. I don’t know what to say to this.  Maybe it’s uglier and more cutthroat up in the fast areas of the race, but back where I am, I see very little intentional drafting.  Most of the drafting I do see is the result of ignorance on the part of novice racers—they just don’t know any better. In both races I got passed by the top competitors in the 30-34 and the 35-39 (OK, at the tri the top 30-34’s passed me in the water ), and it was ugly…it was cut-throat…especially in the du since it was a qualifier. Paulo

Paulo…are you sure you did the Columbia Triathlon?  Because your recollection of the race and it’s drafting is totally untrue!!  I’ve done many of Vigorito’s races and all of them are clean and well marshalled. Columbia of all races is one where drafting is almost impossible if not insane.  First of all, the course is too hilly and second of all, too technical and dangerous with the tight turns and screaming downhills.  On top of that, there are marshalls all over the place.  Take a look at the penalties in the results of this race and you’ll see that your recollection of the race has been "lost in the translation" In addition, you appear to be a hypocrite in that you condemn drafting, but freely admit to breaking the rules by crossing the yellow line in the same race!!!  An automatic DQ!!  Are some rules ok to break and others cardinal sins? You also appear to be a good runner and a poor biker from the sounds of it…Sounds like you might be a Euro drafter trolling this group since you’re more apt to draft to gain advantage during the run.

Response:

Paulo, If you were so disappointed you should have told the organizers. You know, I have the Saturn Colombus Classic Official entry form and brochure and it includes quotes from athletes. Including: "I had a great time in Dublin, the race was very well organized, and it was a very good experience" Paulo Sosa, Portugal

You have GOT to be kidding, right? RIGHT??? I cannot believe that the organizers were unscrupulous to the point of quoting me on something I never said. Probably they think that they bought the quote when they offered to pay my entry fee and an hotel room. I am truly disgusted, but somewhat not surprised! In fact, I didn’t talk to Shannon or Jennifer after the race because I was very disapointed. In Columbia I did talk to Vigo after the race to congratulate him, since the race was very well organized, and the stuff happening on the course was not his fault. Paulo PS- And it’s SoUsa

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all our discussions on "extreme aero positions" and "draft-free races" we forget that this is the real world. In the real world of triathlon, people have aerobars on their bikes only because they look cool and the pros use them. They seldom ride them in training or racing. ????? !!!!!!  I guess I’m not a "people", then. In the real world of triathlon most people ride in packs, only breaking up when they hear a motorcycle. Where are you racing? Here and THERE! Here when I hear a motorcycle, I just check to see if I have my race number is in the right position, since most races are draft-legal, and the few ones that aren’t are raced very fairly. But let’s talk about the there…last year I raced twice in the US, Columbia Triathlon and the Saturn Duathlon in Columbus OH, and was I disapointed! All this talk here about draft-free races, and when I get to the actual races, it was same shit different country! In Columbia there were people riding together everywhere, but because the course is somewhat hilly, they weren’t gaining much of an advantage. So the real problem was blocking…for several times I had to cross the yellow line to pass people riding side by side. On two ocasions when the motorcycle was heard I had people ahead of me brake to get away from the wheel they were sucking and I actually passed them. In Columbus was a lot worse. The RD didn’t provide motorcycles for the USAT officials. It was a disgrace out there, it looked like a cycling race. The best part was these people with "Team USA" singlets passing me in big packs. The race was a worlds qualifier btw. I could go on and on with the episodes from this race.

Paulo, If you were so disappointed you should have told the organizers. You know, I have the Saturn Colombus Classic Official entry form and brochure and it includes quotes from athletes. Including: "I had a great time in Dublin, the race was very well organized, and it was a very good experience" Paulo Sosa, Portugal

Response:

With all our discussions on "extreme aero positions" and "draft-free races" we forget that this is the real world. In the real world of triathlon, people have aerobars on their bikes only because they look cool and the pros use them. They seldom ride them in training or racing. ????? !!!!!!  I guess I’m not a "people", then. In the real world of triathlon most people ride in packs, only breaking up when they hear a motorcycle. Where are you racing?

Here and THERE! Here when I hear a motorcycle, I just check to see if I have my race number is in the right position, since most races are draft-legal, and the few ones that aren’t are raced very fairly. But let’s talk about the there…last year I raced twice in the US, Columbia Triathlon and the Saturn Duathlon in Columbus OH, and was I disapointed! All this talk here about draft-free races, and when I get to the actual races, it was same shit different country! In Columbia there were people riding together everywhere, but because the course is somewhat hilly, they weren’t gaining much of an advantage. So the real problem was blocking…for several times I had to cross the yellow line to pass people riding side by side. On two ocasions when the motorcycle was heard I had people ahead of me brake to get away from the wheel they were sucking and I actually passed them. In Columbus was a lot worse. The RD didn’t provide motorcycles for the USAT officials. It was a disgrace out there, it looked like a cycling race. The best part was these people with "Team USA" singlets passing me in big packs. The race was a worlds qualifier btw. I could go on and on with the episodes from this race. A large part of the people competing doesn’t even think that it’s a big deal if they’re drafting and if they do, they’ll forget all about it when competing. In the real world of triathlon the AG men will follow a woman racer if they get passed, it’s like an attack on the peloton. In the real world of triathlon, people speak up against drafting on this forum, then write race reports where they state how they chatted with someone on the bike(they must have very powerful voices and define a chat as a 30sec exchange), or you can find their names on the those un-marshalled race series. This has got to be one of the most depressing posts I have ever read. Paulo, is it really THAT bad where you race?

Actually it’s not, it’s pretty exciting if you’re a good runner, don’t mind the crashes and don’t know what the hell a triathlon or a duathlon is/was supposed to be. But I have to admit one thing. It’s a fair race. The good part is that most bike courses are very challenging, and makes for balanced races. I don’t know what to say to this.  Maybe it’s uglier and more cutthroat up in the fast areas of the race, but back where I am, I see very little intentional drafting.  Most of the drafting I do see is the result of ignorance on the part of novice racers—they just don’t know any better.

In both races I got passed by the top competitors in the 30-34 and the 35-39 (OK, at the tri the top 30-34’s passed me in the water ), and it was ugly…it was cut-throat…especially in the du since it was a qualifier. Paulo

Response:

triathlon bikes are usually set up with relatively high handlebars – the aerobars raise the torso still further – riding in the drops can give one a much lower position and opens the chest more – so why not accept that aerobars are of benefit but only if used judiciously.

i’m MOSTLY steering clear of the "drafting ethics" part of this thread, and just addressing the original question.   i think you’re correct in what you say above, if you’re talking about what often happens with MOP’ers, as opposed to what is supposed to happen.  if you’re set up correctly, tri bikes will have relatively LOW handlebars, and riding in the drops will NOT give you a lower position, riding in the drops will be less aero AND less comfortable than a properly set up tri position. i’ll relate a story from just last week to illustrate.  merlin has just begun providing heather fuhr with her bikes, and heather and roch fry came into QR to have us look at her position on a merlin aerial.  as many of you know, we have fairly precise formulas for tri bike fit, and heather, having been perfectly fit already by roch on this aerial, had an armrest drop of 13.5cm, as opposed to the 12.5cm that our formula calculates for her, meaning she is on the aggressive side of the "optimal" range. what roc is doing, for heather and presumably for peter reid and his other athletes, what we are doing for ours, what most of the world is doing in the pro environment, is absolutely not supportive of what you are saying above.  paulo, posting to this thread, made the statement, "an extreme position is when the armrests are below the saddle height."  actually, an extreme position is when the armrests are WAY below the saddle height.  my armrests (i’m 6′2") are 15cm below my saddle height.  my wife (5′6") has armrests 8cm below her saddle height.  most people fall inbetween these two armrest drop quantities.  this will yield a pretty aggressive position, and a pretty comfortable and powerful one as well.   the one statement i will make with regard to drafting, is that if triathletes had their no-draft bikes set up properly, they would neither benefit from drafting as much, neither would they provide as much draft for someone else.  whether one wants to get the optimal use out of their bike, or their body, or simply wants to provide the least benefit to a "non rules-compliant" competitor riding directly behind, it would make good sense to spend some time properly getting set up according to how the great majority of serious athletes are riding.   keep in mind that some athletes, peter reid is one (since i brought him up earlier), simon lessing is another, do not necessarily subscribe to riding a seat angle as steep as i might recommend.  but they pretty much all ride with their aero bars quite significantly below their saddles. qrman

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Probably the same that you are doing. But I think you are reading more than I wrote. Whatever your personal belief on drafting, it would be hard to refute that most everyone benefits (marginally?) from being in somebody else’s draft. It is not inarguable that the aerodynamic benefit of using bars in a tri gets watered down – somewhat. About aerobars making you wind-resistant, please bear with me here. When climbing, using the aerobars is ill-advised – working against a strong headwind is similar to climbing – triathlon bikes are usually set up with relatively high handlebars – the aerobars raise the torso still further – riding in the drops can give one a much lower position and opens the chest more – so why not accept that aerobars are of benefit but only if used judiciously. At this point someone might cite an example of some pro. But I dont have the body of a pro. I got to get the best out of what I have. You wont expect a monkey to write a sonnet, would you? you give it a pen, and it’ll poke its eye out. Just an attempt at humor. Regards,

With all our discussions on "extreme aero positions" and "draft-free races" we forget that this is the real world. In the real world of triathlon, people have aerobars on their bikes only because they look cool and the pros use them. They seldom ride them in training or racing. And an extreme position is when the armrests are below the saddle height. In the real world of triathlon most people ride in packs, only breaking up when they hear a motorcycle. A large part of the people competing doesn’t even think that it’s a big deal if they’re drafting and if they do, they’ll forget all about it when competing. In the real world of triathlon the AG men will follow a woman racer if they get passed, it’s like an attack on the peloton. In the real world of triathlon, people speak up against drafting on this forum, then write race reports where they state how they chatted with someone on the bike(they must have very powerful voices and define a chat as a 30sec exchange), or you can find their names on the those un-marshalled race series. Paulo

Response:

!! trinic

Ditto!  Varun, are we perhaps dealing with a second-language problem here?  Forgive me, I mean no disrespect in asking that question, but what you posted makes very little sense to me, and implies that you purposely draft in triathlons.  Also, you mentioned that it’s "ill-advised" to climb in aerobars—nobody said anything about climbing in aero bars.  Thus, I’m with trinic on this one! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

!! trinic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even when using the tri-bike in triathlons, I have noticed that forcing oneself onto the aerobars is less than optimal. There is a considerable draft from fellow racers anyway. Wait a minute here….  I hope you’re not saying what it sounds like you’re saying.  What kind of races are you doing?? Probably the same that you are doing. But I think you are reading more than I wrote. Whatever your personal belief on drafting, it would be hard to refute that most everyone benefits (marginally?) from being in somebody else’s draft. It is not inarguable that the aerodynamic benefit of using bars in a tri gets watered down – somewhat. About aerobars making you wind-resistant, please bear with me here. When climbing, using the aerobars is ill-advised – working against a strong headwind is similar to climbing – triathlon bikes are usually set up with relatively high handlebars – the aerobars raise the torso still further – riding in the drops can give one a much lower position and opens the chest more – so why not accept that aerobars are of benefit but only if used judiciously. At this point someone might cite an example of some pro. But I dont have the body of a pro. I got to get the best out of what I have. You wont expect a monkey to write a sonnet, would you? you give it a pen, and it’ll poke its eye out. Just an attempt at humor. Regards, Still, the utility of aerobars comes from being able to rest the arms and shoulders somewhat. I thought it was to make you more aerodynamic, less wind-resistant. — Tri-Baby

Response:

Even when using the tri-bike in triathlons, I have noticed that forcing oneself onto the aerobars is less than optimal. There is a considerable draft from fellow racers anyway. Wait a minute here….  I hope you’re not saying what it sounds like you’re saying.  What kind of races are you doing??

Probably the same that you are doing. But I think you are reading more than I wrote. Whatever your personal belief on drafting, it would be hard to refute that most everyone benefits (marginally?) from being in somebody else’s draft. It is not inarguable that the aerodynamic benefit of using bars in a tri gets watered down – somewhat. About aerobars making you wind-resistant, please bear with me here. When climbing, using the aerobars is ill-advised – working against a strong headwind is similar to climbing – triathlon bikes are usually set up with relatively high handlebars – the aerobars raise the torso still further – riding in the drops can give one a much lower position and opens the chest more – so why not accept that aerobars are of benefit but only if used judiciously. At this point someone might cite an example of some pro. But I dont have the body of a pro. I got to get the best out of what I have. You wont expect a monkey to write a sonnet, would you? you give it a pen, and it’ll poke its eye out. Just an attempt at humor. Regards, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Still, the utility of aerobars comes from being able to rest the arms and shoulders somewhat. I thought it was to make you more aerodynamic, less wind-resistant. — Tri-Baby

Response:

This is combination of different triathlon readings I remember from the past few years that may apply. – You are using different muscles when in the aero position.  The same muscles as when you run.  If you are use to riding without aero bars then you need to give yourself some time in the new position. –  I use to ride a Trek too (2300) and I never felt totally comfortable in the aero position until I got a forward seat post.  Before the forward seat post, I felt like I was lying down.  Just like Superman, but without the superhuman powers. My 2 cents: Check out different aero positions by the pros.  I’m a guy, but I always look at Paula Newby Fraiser’s aero position.  Paula doesn’t have any sacks, so she doesn’t have to worry about where her crotch is positioned, but she seem to ride up on the saddle.  Sometimes she seem to be totally off the saddle (closer to the handlebars). That being said, the reason I have aero bars is: 1.  They look cool. 2.  Aerobenefit. 3.  Gives me another position to ride in when my arms get tired.  I actually spend more time out of the aero during training. 4.  Just one more thing to spend money on. Aloha, Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just put on a set of aerobars on my roadbike (Trek OCLV) and did a time trial on a route I ride regularly.  It seemed that I was unable to go  as fast as I normally do without the aerobars and when I got out of them for a hill my legs were extra tired.  My background is in cycling and I am new to tri’s and I was wondering do I need to train in the aero position alot to get back to my normal speed or is a foreward seatpost something that might help.  I did notice that when I slid up onto the nose of the saddle I could go a little faster but the privates  weren’t too thrilled about that position.  Any advice appreciated, Mike Beyerstedt

Response:

I dont ride with aerobars on the roadbike, and I think I am actually faster for certain sections of the road because I can open my stomach more.

Then you need to work with a specialist to set up your tri-bike.  It’s very common for folks to ride with aerobars that are too low, causing the mid-section to fold over too far. There is a considerable draft from fellow racers anyway.

Hmmmm…..  What are you talking about? Still, the utility of aerobars comes from being able to rest the arms and shoulders somewhat. In general, I think it is a function of body-type, and maybe I am, as are you apparently, more powerful on the road bike.

Really?  Don’t you have conventional drop handlebars on your tri-bike, or do you just have climbing bars?  If you need leverage for a climb, you’re allowed to move your hands out of the aero-position, you know.

Response:

Here we go again.. The drafting threat.. BTW: Was really p…ed this weekend. Non sanctioned race…. riding alone with a strong headwind, I was passed by the end of the bike-leg by a group of guys with "professional" Tri-bikes and equipment drafting like in a pace-group. Among them a guy who, an hour before, had told a newby who had asked him about drafting in non-sanctioned events: "Triathletes do not draft !!" . Seems that especially the slow guys with the expensive equipment have some problem with their EGO ? Was striking that no "cyclist" was in that group. So all the non-drafting attitude seems to be only lip-service if it comes to competition ? Where does this sport go ? trinic, (who just forgot that he now is in AMERICA)

Response:

Actually, I think LeMond said the primary benefit of aero’s was to provide an additional point of leverage.  But I guess some of us don’t have quite the technique and form he had…  :) — Mark (uses the bike segment is to dry off between the swim and the run)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even when using the tri-bike in triathlons, I have noticed that forcing oneself onto the aerobars is less than optimal. There is a considerable draft from fellow racers anyway. Wait a minute here….  I hope you’re not saying what it sounds like you’re saying.  What kind of races are you doing?? Still, the utility of aerobars comes from being able to rest the arms and shoulders somewhat. I thought it was to make you more aerodynamic, less wind-resistant. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

Response:

Even when using the tri-bike in triathlons, I have noticed that forcing oneself onto the aerobars is less than optimal. There is a considerable draft from fellow racers anyway.

Wait a minute here….  I hope you’re not saying what it sounds like you’re saying.  What kind of races are you doing?? Still, the utility of aerobars comes from being able to rest the arms and shoulders somewhat.

I thought it was to make you more aerodynamic, less wind-resistant. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

I just put on a set of aerobars on my roadbike (Trek OCLV) and did a time trial on a route I ride regularly.  It seemed that I was unable to go  as fast as I normally do without the aerobars and when I got out of them for a hill my legs were extra tired.  My background is in cycling and I am new to tri’s and I was wondering do I need to train in the aero position alot to get back to my normal speed or is a foreward seatpost something that might help.  I did notice that when I slid up onto the nose of the saddle I could go a little faster but the privates  weren’t too thrilled about that position.  Any advice appreciated, Mike Beyerstedt

Response:

Hello Mike: I dont have an answer, but will make some comments. I have two bikes – a regular steel road-brute, and a tri-specific bike. The road bike is 58cm (Seat tube) and the tri-bike is 53c toptube. I dont ride with aerobars on the roadbike, and I think I am actually faster for certain sections of the road because I can open my stomach more. Even when using the tri-bike in triathlons, I have noticed that forcing oneself onto the aerobars is less than optimal. There is a considerable draft from fellow racers anyway. Still, the utility of aerobars comes from being able to rest the arms and shoulders somewhat. In general, I think it is a function of body-type, and maybe I am, as are you apparently, more powerful on the road bike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just put on a set of aerobars on my roadbike (Trek OCLV) and did a time trial on a route I ride regularly.  It seemed that I was unable to go  as fast as I normally do without the aerobars and when I got out of them for a hill my legs were extra tired.  My background is in cycling and I am new to tri’s and I was wondering do I need to train in the aero position alot to get back to my normal speed or is a foreward seatpost something that might help.  I did notice that when I slid up onto the nose of the saddle I could go a little faster but the privates  weren’t too thrilled about that position.  Any advice appreciated, Mike Beyerstedt

Response:

I just put on a set of aerobars on my roadbike (Trek OCLV) and did a time trial on a route I ride regularly.  It seemed that I was unable to go  as fast as I normally do without the aerobars and when I got out of them for a hill my legs were extra tired.  My background is in cycling and I am new to tri’s and I was wondering do I need to train in the aero position alot to get back to my normal speed or is a foreward seatpost something that might help.  I did notice that when I slid up onto the nose of the saddle I could go a little faster but the privates  weren’t too thrilled about that position.  Any advice appreciated, Mike Beyerstedt

Hi Mike, I also have a trak OCVL and have noticed that the top tube seems a little bit longer than most bikes. Therefore, even when I move my saddle all the way forward, I still seem to be "reaching" for my aerobars. As a result, I seem to lose a lot of power while pedaling in this position (though I am more aero). Try aerobars that extend behind your handlebars (syntace or z-back profile’s), or try a profile fast-forward seatpost. — Ravi S. Raman Penn State Triathlon Club http://www.clubs.psu.edu/triclub

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Question:

 The guy who sold me the down tuber’s that I bought said these are much more reliable than bar cons…is he right? Absolute garbage-they use the same innards-ditch the syntace adapter and get bar-cons G

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what exactly are bar cons bar end shifters-the ‘first gen’ handlebar mounted shifter-used a lot in cyclocross-now almost exclusively for tri-guys and into the end of syntace and other tribars- G

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The nice thing about DT shifters is that if you go down, there is a much greater chance the DT shifters will be ok. Bar con shifters, unfortunately, do not fare as well as they are a bit more exposed.

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Hi Everyone, I’m trying to upgrade from Ultegra to DA and I’m finding it a much more complicated process than what I thought it would be.  I’m trying to decide if the DA down tube shifters are any more reliable than the Bar Cons, but if 9 spd isn’t compatible with 8 spd then it’s irrelevant.  The Syntace adapter for down tube shifters is at least $60 but you can get the Bar cons for a lot less than that.  I"m not sure what to do.  The guy who sold me the down tuber’s that I bought said these are much more reliable than bar cons…is he right? Happy Holidays and thanks in advance…. CS —

Response:

I’m trying to upgrade from Ultegra to DA and I’m finding it a much more complicated process than what I thought it would be.  I’m trying to decide if the DA down tube shifters are any more reliable than the Bar Cons, but if 9 spd isn’t compatible with 8 spd then it’s irrelevant.  The Syntace adapter for down tube shifters is at least $60 but you can get the Bar cons for a lot less than that.  I"m not sure what to do.  The guy who sold me the down tuber’s that I bought said these are much more reliable than bar cons…is he right?

I’ve never used Dura Ace down tubes (I had RX100 down-tubes) but I have Dura Ace 9 bar-cons mounted on the end of my Syntaces and the shifting is flawless. -Ekr —           eTrain – free triathlon training software               http://www.rtfm.com/tri/etrain.html

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cs: I’ve been using Dura-Ace 9-speed bar cons with an eight speed rear derailleur (Dura-Ace) with no problems.  I don’t know about the downtube shifters being any more reliable than the bar cons; I’m pretty skeptical about that since bar cons are basically the same thing mounted on a bracket for your aerobars.  Hope that helps. Kendall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, I’m trying to upgrade from Ultegra to DA and I’m finding it a much more complicated process than what I thought it would be.  I’m trying to decide if the DA down tube shifters are any more reliable than the Bar Cons, but if 9 spd isn’t compatible with 8 spd then it’s irrelevant.  The Syntace adapter for down tube shifters is at least $60 but you can get the Bar cons for a lot less than that.  I"m not sure what to do.  The guy who sold me the down tuber’s that I bought said these are much more reliable than bar cons…is he right? Happy Holidays and thanks in advance…. CS —

Response:

Bar-cons are a term used to describe bar end shifters — at least that was the term I always used.  Basically, the shift levers fit into the hole on the ends of aerobars allowing you to shift while in the aero position.  The Syntace aero shifter is nice because it allows you to use standard downtube shifters without the expense of buying bar end shifters, etc. Kendall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what exactly are bar cons ?  i previously had profile w/swift shift but got some syntaces and am getting ready to build the bike. i had assumed i would have to buy syntace’s aero shift thing. thanks I’m trying to upgrade from Ultegra to DA and I’m finding it a much more complicated process than what I thought it would be.  I’m trying to decide if the DA down tube shifters are any more reliable than the Bar Cons, but if 9 spd isn’t compatible with 8 spd then it’s irrelevant.  The Syntace adapter for down tube shifters is at least $60 but you can get the Bar cons for a lot less than that.  I"m not sure what to do.  The guy who sold me the down tuber’s that I bought said these are much more reliable than bar cons…is he right? I’ve never used Dura Ace down tubes (I had RX100 down-tubes) but I have Dura Ace 9 bar-cons mounted on the end of my Syntaces and the shifting is flawless. -Ekr —           eTrain – free triathlon training software               http://www.rtfm.com/tri/etrain.html

Response:

what exactly are bar cons ?  i previously had profile w/swift shift but got some syntaces and am getting ready to build the bike. i had assumed i would have to buy syntace’s aero shift thing. thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to upgrade from Ultegra to DA and I’m finding it a much more complicated process than what I thought it would be.  I’m trying to decide if the DA down tube shifters are any more reliable than the Bar Cons, but if 9 spd isn’t compatible with 8 spd then it’s irrelevant.  The Syntace adapter for down tube shifters is at least $60 but you can get the Bar cons for a lot less than that.  I"m not sure what to do.  The guy who sold me the down tuber’s that I bought said these are much more reliable than bar cons…is he right? I’ve never used Dura Ace down tubes (I had RX100 down-tubes) but I have Dura Ace 9 bar-cons mounted on the end of my Syntaces and the shifting is flawless. -Ekr —           eTrain – free triathlon training software               http://www.rtfm.com/tri/etrain.html

Response:

Question:

I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these? — Tri Your Hardest!   /O     ___o      o  ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)      / Darrin Bartlett

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I was going to write back that I ride on them and haven’t yet needed the "self sealing" features yet – but then realized that if it works, I might not know that I needed it! I carry a spare anyway. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these? — Tri Your Hardest!  /O     ___o      o ~~~~   _ <,_    <|       (*)/ (*)      / Darrin Bartlett

Response:

I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these? — Tri Your Hardest!   /O     ___o      o  ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)      / Darrin Bartlett

  Quite honestly I find they’re not worth a crap. I’ve had several minor punctures that sealed part way or not at all. More importantly is the valve will clog with the sealant if the tire is not stored with the valve stem on top. The valve is almost impossible to clean after vbeing clogged and I found I had to replace the valve on several tires that I had purchased. Last but not least, I use a tire service to repair tubulars and they can’t repair UFO’s. Cheers and buy another brand, Bernie Sher

Response:

I’ve had similar experiences to TriGuy with UFO tubulars. I was an early user of UFO’s when they 1st came out in ‘94.  I had 2 problems with them that 1st year that convinced me they weren’t worth anything. 1) In a race, I hit a bump hard, and my (UFO) tire flatted.  The rep that talked with me later (at the bike shop after I said that I’d flatted a UFO in front of several bikers) said that it didn’t really flat – the valve was clogged with the sealant, and so it malfunctioned – I never really got a totally (engineering-wise) scientific reason for this vague malfunction, but he made sure I knew that I wasn’t supposed to say that it ‘flatted’, something about an image thing .  So I told more people that I’d flatted my UFO’s in racing, since that’s what I describe suddenly having no air in my tire. 2) I had already bought UFO clinchers for training (I never raced on UFO’s again), so I continued using them on my training rides.  On a normal mid-week ride, I was on an out-and-back 28 mile ride, 10 miles from home and hit some glass.  NOTE: I had made sure the valves were unclogged on these tires.  My tire went flat, and so I did what I was told and pumped some air into the tire and spun the wheel to try to get the glue to seal the puncture.  No dice.  I pumped it up 5 times, and it just flatted each time. NOTE: I did not have a spare tube with me, since with a clincher this means that I’d have had to bring along a spare tire as well.  So I couldn’t just change the tube out because of the UFO’s all-in-one clincher design.  I got a ride to a gas station, called a friend who got me, and just before he got there, I pumped it up again and voila, glue spurted everywhere and the flat was sealed.  Boy was I pissed.  Nevermore. My final reasoning is:  If a company is going to make a claim that their tires can’t be flatted, then if I can’t count on the tire not flatting, then I’m better off using the usual precautions – spare tubes in training, spare tubulars in racing.  Sure it’s a pain to carry them, but it’s better than being less than zero (not being able to ride at all after you flat). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these?

Response:

Gee Vince, only 10 miles from home and you didn’t ride on the air-deprived tire? I rode 18mi once on a flat (NOT a UFO so I can say that word) and I made it, but it was an experience I’d never want to repeat.  I’ve had two UFO’s FLAT (well, only on the bottom) during races over the last three years. Neither time did they seal, and both times I managed to ride them into the finish area. The last race it most likely cost me a victory. (Or at least it would have been VERY interesting on the last run.) The sound my Zipp disk against the rough tarmac surface really caused me great concern, but at least I only had 2.5 mi with one turn to slide through. Coasting down a hill at 24MPH with a flat rear tire is always enlightening, as is trying to climb a hill with all your weight on the front.  I will NOT use them again in a race, even if I once more come about one for free. Also, if you use any deep section aero rim where you have to keep the valve stem opened inside the valve extenders, the clogging problem can cause you to have a useless tire after awhile unless you’re very careful not to let air out after use. Chuck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had similar experiences to TriGuy with UFO tubulars. 2) I had already bought UFO clinchers for training (I never raced on UFO’s again), so I continued using them on my training rides.  On a normal mid-week ride, I was on an out-and-back 28 mile ride, 10 miles from home and I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these?

Response:

I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these?

Darrin, The UFO Genie sealant can be a pain to live with but does help reduce flats. You need to make sure that you leave your wheels in such a position that the value is at 3 or 9 o’clock. If you leave it at 12 or 6 the sealant will drain into the valve and clog it. UFOs have a removable core so it can be removed and cleaned out with a strong solvent but it is a real hassle. As for reducing flats, my most recent experience was with a friend of mine who flatted two UFOs at IM NZ this year. Each time he heard the pissst of the puncture and it stopped quickly and he was able to continue. He did have significant trouble with punturing at NZ though. It is a bad course for that and this year especially with all the rain they got so I’m not sure we can blame the tires all together for the number of flats be got. Also, not all UFOs come with the sealant installed. That way if you choose you can forego what can be a pain to deal with. Dan Rishworth Enduro Sport – Canada’s Multi-Sport Pro Shop 1 800 448 4678 http://www.endurosport.com

Response:

I have been racing on UFO tubulars for two years now.  The same pair for two years without a flat.  I like them alot and am surprised they havn’t taken off more.  Poor marketing I guess……Rob I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these?

Response:

I’d agree. I pretty much ride on UFO’s exclusively.  The *one* flat that I’ve gotten in a race in the last 4 years, came when I substituted a different wheel (tire) at the last minute at Muskoka last year.  I’ve regretted it since and won’t do that again. Augie Calabrese – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been racing on UFO tubulars for two years now.  The same pair for two years without a flat.  I like them alot and am surprised they havn’t taken off more.  Poor marketing I guess……Rob I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these?

Response:

I’ve got them on my bike now and they seal holes just as advertised.  On my first ride, I punctured and the air fizzled out for about five seconds and it sealed itself.  That was two years ago.  I’m still riding the same tire. Ed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at the Products section in the new Triathlete magazine and noticed the UFO tubulars and the ’self-sealing claims’ made.  Does anyone have any experience with these? — Tri Your Hardest!  /O     ___o      o ~~~~   _ <,_    <|       (*)/ (*)      / Darrin Bartlett

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Question:

Could somebody please tell me when the first ever Triathlon was held and where, needed for a research project. Thanks T.Searle

Response:

Hi, My name is Jort Vlam and I live in Almere (yes, the big triathlon-city), Holland. The first triathlon was hold on Oahu, Hawaii. In 1977 there were some members of the Waikiki Swim Club. They asked eachother wich the most intensive event was on Hawaii: The Waikiki Rough Water Swim, a swim-championchip about 3,8 km in the ocean; the Around-Oahu Bicycle Race, a bicycle race about 180 km; and last but not least: the Honolulu Marathon. Marine-officer John Collins asked: "Can we combine that 3 sport-events?" So the triathlon (=three-sports) was a fact. At 18 february 1978 at Hawaii started 15 men the first triathlon ever held. After 11 hours, 46 minutes and 58 seconds, winner Gordon Haller proved that a triathlon wasn’t impossible. I hope that I’ve give you enough information. Succes with your research-project. Bye, Jort Vlam (Triathlon Club Almere, and Stichting Holland Triathlon)             Mail sent by:           Vlam & van Dijk http://www.flnet.nl/~0vlam01

Response:

Could somebody please tell me when the first ever Triathlon was held and where, needed for a research project. Thanks T.Searle

see Scott Tinley ! ISBN 0809251175

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Question:

: Got an entry form for St. Anthonys and noticed that although they have : a male clydesdale division, there was no equivalent female division. : Anyone know whats up with that? Because no women wants to be told she’s big, and no woman will admit that she is, no matter how large or small she is.  All men should know that.–

Well, I certainly don’t like being *told* that I’m big, but I beg to differ with "no woman will admit that she is, no matter how large or small she is".  I admit it; it would be silly not to!  I’m 5′ 11.5" tall and big boned, there’s just no getting around it.  Heck, sometimes I worry that someday I’ll qualify for the MEN’S Clydesdale division!!  Even at my lowest weight, if I were to lose all the excess I’ve gained over the past couple of years, I’d still qualify as a Clyde. But I will agree that in general women are loathe to "stigmatize" themselves by actually entering a Clydesdale division.  It’s fine with me, though, ’cause it allows me to do a little cherry-picking at the few races where Clyde/Athena divisions are available.  On the downside, however, is the fact that if more women won’t sign up for the division, fewer and fewer races will offer it. It’s silly of women to be so timid about racing as Clydes, but I can understand it.  I’m sure not proud of my weight, but it’s a heckuva lot easier for me to justify it at my height than it is for the average-height woman. Just one Clydesdale gal’s $.02. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

: : Got an entry form for St. Anthonys and noticed that although they have : : a male clydesdale division, there was no equivalent female division. : : Anyone know whats up with that? Hey, I don’t like people to say things like "Wow you’re short and fat!", but I always enter the Athena/Clydesdale division because I am proud to do as well as I do when I weigh so much more than the other women out there. And I hope that some day young women won’t be so hung up on the numbers on the scale and instead think of their bodies in terms of the things it allows them to do–like finish a triathlon.  I’m making a statement, see, when I compete as a Clyde.  Yes, and cherry picking is nice too!

Response:

Got an entry form for St. Anthonys and noticed that although they have a male clydesdale division, there was no equivalent female division. Anyone know whats up with that?

Response:

The Gatorade Triathlon Series has 13 races this year and each of them has a Female Clydesdale division.  We have had this division for the last four years and we average around 8-10 participants in the division at each race.  The top five receive awards.  The first race is on Sunday, May 4th in Miami.  Z Tom Ziebart – Exclusive Sports Marketing

Response:

: Got an entry form for St. Anthonys and noticed that although they have : a male clydesdale division, there was no equivalent female division. : Anyone know whats up with that? Because no women wants to be told she’s big, and no woman will admit that she is, no matter how large or small she is.  All men should know that.–                     *      Kenneth  David  Ervin      *                     *  "The best looking guy in G-L"  *                     *      No, sicko, Graham-Lees     *                     *        Phone # – 462-4999       *                     *         Graham-Lees #101        *

Response:

Question:

NBC’s coverage of the Ironman Triathlon World Championship will air Saturday, December 14, from 1:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. Eastern.  Please spread the word! The show typically has cleared 97 percent of all local markets.  Please check you local listings or call the NBC station in your area to confirm that your NBC affiliate is planning to air Ironman.   If they are not planning to air the show, complain vigorously to them. Your input does make a difference to the programming managers of theses stations.   Also please e-mail WTC at this address if you determine your local affiliate is not planning to air the show.  We will work with NBC’s affiliate service’s department to attempt to change the decision. Rob Perry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NBC’s coverage of the Ironman Triathlon World Championship will air Saturday, December 14, from 1:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. Eastern.  Please spread the word! The show typically has cleared 97 percent of all local markets.  Please check you local listings or call the NBC station in your area to confirm that your NBC affiliate is planning to air Ironman. If they are not planning to air the show, complain vigorously to them. Your input does make a difference to the programming managers of theses stations. Also please e-mail WTC at this address if you determine your local affiliate is not planning to air the show.  We will work with NBC’s affiliate service’s department to attempt to change the decision. Rob Perry

Hey Rob, What’s the scoop on the "pre-empting" policy?  Did the Networks learn their lesson last year when the cut up the Ironman for some of the markets?   Have any of them made any promises that the program will be shown in its complete format. John (Did you get a shot me K.

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Question:

Does anyone have any comments on the sling shot bikes? I’m looking to replace my current "low end" bike. Thanks for all comments. John Moir, Toronto Canada

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: CME Communications Does anyone have any comments on the sling shot bikes? I’m looking to replace my current "low end" bike. Thanks for all comments. John Moir, Toronto Canada

Response:

i have used one for a year, and several triathlons.  it’s a cool, head-turning bike. i’ve had no problems with it, though it’s skittish when you take your hands off the handlebars. it’s a good  climbing bike. i’m not disappointed by its performance. it’s the ultimate funny bike that really works. katovsky, publisher and editor-in-chief of Multisport

Response:

Does anyone have any comments re: SlingShot ? I am also interested in purchasing their Tri-bike. Thanks …. mike muraski

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: Does anyone have any comments re: SlingShot ? I am also interested in : purchasing their Tri-bike. : Thanks …. : mike muraski  I’ve only seen one in real life. It happened to be a folding one and it looks way cool! They seem tiny. It happened to be under a really fast trihead with monster thighs. They are on my list of cool things to get when lotto comes my way.   TriDork

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Does anyone have any comments re: SlingShot ? I am also interested in purchasing their Tri-bike. Thanks …. mike muraski

I didn’t get to ride their new tri-bike at Interbike but it is great looking. Definitely worth looking into based on conversation around the show. I have to say I’m impressed with what the company is doing. They have an interesting concept and are really working to get it refined and make it available. James Rodewald, online editor, Outside magazine http://www.starwave.com/outside

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Does anyone have any comments re: SlingShot ? I am also interested in purchasing their Tri-bike. Thanks …. mike muraski

The same, I ‘m interested in their bikes and any info is good.   Thanks Michel Somogyi Ottawa, Canada Michel Somogyi Carleton University

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Recently when training on my mag trainer with a hear rate monitor, I noted that every time I used the tri bars (same cadence and gearing) instead of the brake hoods my heart rate increased up to 5 beats a minute. This might have something to do with the "closing" of the chest area by bending further forward and bringing the arms together. Does anyone have any thoughts about the trade off in a long-course or ironman triathlon of heart rate increase verses aerodynamic position. In a long event the extra 5 beats/minute could have a very negative result if it took you too much above your anaerobic threshold. —                              __o      o               …_/o_       <,     ‘<, SEQEB, Brisbane, Australia                Phone:        +61 7 223 4202

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently when training on my mag trainer with a hear rate monitor, I noted that every time I used the tri bars (same cadence and gearing) instead of the brake hoods my heart rate increased up to 5 beats a minute. This might have something to do with the "closing" of the chest area by bending further forward and bringing the arms together. Does anyone have any thoughts about the trade off in a long-course or ironman triathlon of heart rate increase verses aerodynamic position. In a long event the extra 5 beats/minute could have a very negative result if it took you too much above your anaerobic threshold. —                              __o      o               …_/o_       <,     ‘<, SEQEB, Brisbane, Australia                Phone:        +61 7 223 4202

I have noticed the same thing.  I attribute it to:         – using a wider range of motion on the gluts/hams/etc, and           thus increasing circulatory needs         – constriction of the chest, I am a bit barrel chested and           find aerobars constrict my breathing Any other opinions? P.S.  Just back from the Gold Coast area, I am having real trouble with       this windtrainer concept at this time of year ??? — Brendan Leitch                    __              My views only, not those of Magellan Passport OS              /              my employer. Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, CANADA

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Recently when training on my mag trainer with a hear rate monitor, I noted that every time I used the tri bars (same cadence and gearing) instead of the brake hoods my heart rate increased up to 5 beats a minute.

Funny I usually find a slight drop in my heart rate when I get onto the aerobars.  I have always put it down to the upper body being level and so easying the fight againsyt gravity abit for the old ticker.

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I was listening to National Public Radio the other evening and heard a report saying that high heels were becoming fashionable again for women.  A fashion editor for Elle magazine remarked that one particular pair of shoes with a 6-inch spike heel were very "aerodynamically comfortable." Aerodynamic?  Perhaps this is the future of triathlon footwear. Does anyone want to make bets on who will be the first pro to race in spike heels?                                         — John — John Walker                      Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers

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Bray) says: Recently when training on my mag trainer with a hear rate monitor, I noted that every time I used the tri bars (same cadence and gearing) instead of the brake hoods my heart rate increased up to 5 beats a minute. Funny I usually find a slight drop in my heart rate when I get onto the aerobars.  I have always put it down to the upper body being level and so easying the fight againsyt gravity abit for the old ticker.

I also find that my HR drops as my body becomes more horizontal.  I also notice that it goes up noticeably if I sit upright, not even touching the bars.  (I use this to cheat when I get tired).  I too think that gravity must be the explanation. If your HR is higher while down on the bars, then maybe you should adjust your position so as to be more comfortable. Steve

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Funny I usually find a slight drop in my heart rate when I get onto the aerobars.  I have always put it down to the upper body being level and so easying the fight againsyt gravity abit for the old ticker.

I agree.  My HR goes DOWN when aero.  I also figured it was for the same reason HRs are typically lower while swimming – the heart doesn’t have to pump as much uphill. —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (303) 229-3117

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When using my wife’s recumbant exercise bike, my HR goes up 5-10 BPM guaranteed if all I do is raise my hands over my head.

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: one particular pair of shoes with a 6-inch spike heel were very : "aerodynamically comfortable." : Aerodynamic?  Perhaps this is the future of triathlon footwear. : Does anyone want to make bets on who will be the first pro to : race in spike heels? :                                       — John : — : John Walker                      Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers John,   I remember seeing an add years ago either on the tube or in print by some shoe company that paid (surely she didn’t do it for free) some woman to do a marathon? or some race in a pair of their pumps, that had a small heel, to show how comfortable they were. I’m not sure if it was for real or not but I have a hazy recollection of it happening. I think they had a male version also, Wing tips if I remember correctly. Amazing the crap I remember when I have to. If I could only use my talents for good instead of evil. Marcus

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My HR most often goes down on the road when I use the aero bars.  This aero positionn tends to elongate and open up the chest cavity aiding, not impeding, breathing. — "I must be leaving this climate  I’ve got a verse and can’t rhyme it  I gotta go where its warm" -J.Buffet

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