Question:

I think the Y-foil has a very relaxed seat angle ( 71 – 72  ???) this goes exactly opposite what most current triathlon frame builders are doing. Getting into a real comfortable aero position will be more difficult then on a tri specific geometry.

IIRC, the seat tube angle varies from 72 to 73 degrees, depending on the frame size…a bit slacker than many modern road bikes, but not THAT laid back. Why would Trek put such a relaxed seat angle on a bike with an aero looking frame is a good question?

My guess it was to compensate for the no-offset Thomson seat post the bike came with…taking that into account, the relationship of the seat rail clamp to the b.b. center is pretty standard for a road bike (which is what the Y-Foil was intended to be). Andrew Coggan

Response:

I manage a shop, and we only aspire to have a site like his…. Wes East Coasters, Roanoke, VA

Could be that you also aspire to do things like sleep and spend more time with your family instead of maintaining a web site!  All we can do is take the best care possible of our customers, keep them on their bikes, and make sure they understand that cycling should be FUN and not a chore.  Those things are more important than a website, and I suspect you do them very well. — –Mike–     Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames. Both are awesome bikes. The Y-Foil tends to offer slightly better aerodynamics (according to trek, and from my personal experience based on "feel") and a little more comfort, due to the lack of a true seat tube (there is some inherent flex in the top tube of the bike, much like  a Softride but to a lesser degree). Personally, I’d go with the standard frame, but mostly for aesthetic reasons. The Y-Foil didn’t take off like Trek thought it would for that very reason. Too weird for most roadies and not Tri-specific enough for most triathletes. Definitley check out the website that Mike J recommends at chainreaction.com Probably the best website in the bike biz. I manage a shop, and we only aspire to have a site like his…. Wes East Coasters, Roanoke, VA

Response:

The Y-Foil was designed from the ground up as a *road* bike with exceptional aerodynamics and comfort.  As a *road* bike, the geometry is classic LeMond. Slightly longish top tube on larger sizes with a moderate seat angle, placing you in a position that LeMond feels is exceptional for climbing (and I think he’s correct in this). Unfortunately, TREK was caught completely off guard by the UCI ruling that made bikes without seat tubes illegal…losing such a big chunk of the intended market killed off the bike.  Had it been designed specifically as a Tri-bike, it would still be with us today! Fortunately, the Y-Foil adapts to Tri-use very easily, as it remains very stable even with a very forward-reaching seatpost. So I guess the answer to why make such an aero frame on a road bike would be…why not?  The question you’re asking makes the assumption that it was intended to be a Tri-bike from the start, which was not the case.  It was intended to be an exceptionally aerodynamic road bike, a unique machine that would excel at both general road use and time trials.  The UCI simply pulled the rug out from under this fine bike! –Mike–     Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the Y-foil has a very relaxed seat angle ( 71 – 72  ???) this goes exactly opposite what most current triathlon frame builders are doing. Getting into a real comfortable aero position will be more difficult then on a tri specific geometry. Why would Trek put such a relaxed seat angle on a bike with an aero looking frame is a good question? I crashed my bike and need to replace the frame and forks.  I have been pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames.  Thanks. Chip

Response:

That makes no sense at all, designing a bike around a seat post.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the Y-foil has a very relaxed seat angle ( 71 – 72  ???) this goes exactly opposite what most current triathlon frame builders are doing. Getting into a real comfortable aero position will be more difficult then on a tri specific geometry. IIRC, the seat tube angle varies from 72 to 73 degrees, depending on the frame size…a bit slacker than many modern road bikes, but not THAT laid back. Why would Trek put such a relaxed seat angle on a bike with an aero looking frame is a good question? My guess it was to compensate for the no-offset Thomson seat post the bike came with…taking that into account, the relationship of the seat rail clamp to the b.b. center is pretty standard for a road bike (which is what the Y-Foil was intended to be). Andrew Coggan

Response:

Oh, I don’t know…there are a lot more zero offset seatposts out now than there used to be, and the Y-Foil was sold as a complete bike, not as a frame. So, why not just tack an extra cm or two onto the top tube behind the b.b., to put the saddle in the usual position relative to the b.b.? Making the boom longer would also enhance the damping it provides as well. Of course, this is/was purely speculation on my part, and you’d have to ask the Trek engineers what they really had in mind. Mike J.’s report that the bike was originally intended to be sold under the Lemond nameplate may be a better explanation than my guess. It might also be worth mentioning that the seat tube angle is only *slightly* more relaxed than most road bikes…my 56 cm frame has a 72 degree angle, but other sizes are as a steep as 74 degrees. Andrew Coggan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That makes no sense at all, designing a bike around a seat post. I think the Y-foil has a very relaxed seat angle ( 71 – 72  ???) this goes exactly opposite what most current triathlon frame builders are doing. Getting into a real comfortable aero position will be more difficult then on a tri specific geometry. IIRC, the seat tube angle varies from 72 to 73 degrees, depending on the frame size…a bit slacker than many modern road bikes, but not THAT laid back. Why would Trek put such a relaxed seat angle on a bike with an aero looking frame is a good question? My guess it was to compensate for the no-offset Thomson seat post the bike came with…taking that into account, the relationship of the seat rail clamp to the b.b. center is pretty standard for a road bike (which is what the Y-Foil was intended to be). Andrew Coggan

Response:

I crashed my bike and need to replace the frame and forks.  I have been pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames.  Thanks. Chip

Response:

Check out our website…we have several articles on OCLV and Y-Foil frames/bicycles.  Specifically, you might look at http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com/oclvbest.htm for my totally biased opinions on the OCLV "standard" frameset, and http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com/Y-Foil.htm for my similarly-biased opinions on the Y-Foil. Make sure you’re getting it in-person from an authorized dealer, since TREK doesn’t allow frames or bicycles to be sold mail-order, and doing so kills the warranty…*not* something you want with an expensive frame! –Mike–     Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I crashed my bike and need to replace the frame and forks.  I have been pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames.  Thanks. Chip

Response:

pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames.

Both are awesome bikes. The Y-Foil tends to offer slightly better aerodynamics (according to trek, and from my personal experience based on "feel") and a little more comfort, due to the lack of a true seat tube (there is some inherent flex in the top tube of the bike, much like  a Softride but to a lesser degree). Personally, I’d go with the standard frame, but mostly for aesthetic reasons. The Y-Foil didn’t take off like Trek thought it would for that very reason. Too weird for most roadies and not Tri-specific enough for most triathletes. Definitley check out the website that Mike J recommends at chainreaction.com Probably the best website in the bike biz. I manage a shop, and we only aspire to have a site like his…. Wes East Coasters, Roanoke, VA

Response:

I have a Y-Foil…here’s my take: 1) modest aero advantage over the OCLV (based on Trek’s claims and also based on wind tunnel tests of other bikes of similar design). 2) modest vibration damping effect compared to traditional frame (haven’t ridden an OCLV, but have been on other carbon fiber bikes, e.g., Specialized, Kestrel. The feel of the Y-Foil is different from those – no noticeable movement of the "spar", but definitely takes the edge off of big hits, e.g., uneven bridge expansion joints). 3) despite #2, very stiff in the b.b. – in fact, I think the Y-Foil is the stiffest bike I’ve ever owned. Other bikes with similar paired-stay designs are also reportedly pretty stiff, so I think this (along with that massive down tube) has something to do with it. 4) heavier than the OCLV, and in fact possibly even heavier than Trek claims (so what’s new?) – my 56 cm frame weighs 4 lbs, instead of the 3.6 they claim (doesn’t bother me, but some people might care). 5) prone to same problems of paint cracking as the OCLV (problem may actually be a bit worse on the Y-Foil, just because where the paint tends to crack – in a straight line across the down tube where the b.b. lug begins – is quite visible. OTOH, at least w/ mine the crack was nearly invisible – I opted for a new paint job mostly to repair some other scars). 6) Only one water bottle mount on frame – I find this a minor disadvantage, and worth accepting for all the other advantages, but others may not. 7) Biggest thing – somewhat unusual geometry, with a longer-than-average top tube and a slacker-than-normal seat tube angle, apparently to compensate for the no-offset Thomson post the bike is spec’d with. Also comes in discreet sizes (XS, S, M, M, L, XL), with somewhat larger diferences between frame dimensions than w/ most bikes (esp. at the far ends of the range). W/ a normal post and a 14 cm stem (yes, that’s right: I like to ride a smaller bike w/ a long stem, to put more weight on the front wheel and to slow the steering response), my bike fits me like a glove, but may not fit the average Joe/Joesephine. Bottom line: considering all the compromises that must be made between weight, stiffness, aerodynamics, comfort, etc., I think the Y-Foil is nearly perfect for road racing, and has distinct advantages over the OCLV. But, it may not be everyone’s cup of tea… Andrew Coggan I crashed my bike and need to replace the frame and forks.  I have been pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames.  Thanks. Chip

– Andrew Coggan Before you buy.

Response:

Charles, I love my OCLV. Very light, Stiff enough for most and does’nt beat you up. Have not ridden a Y but have heard good things in that regard. Just bought a new Hilo. not many road miles yet, but lots of trainer miles. the few raod rides I’ve been on have been nice. John

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I can’t say enough great things about my Y Foil.  It is so easy on you back on those long rides.   If you are doing any serious LSD rides for that winter base, this is the bike to be on. The other OCLV frame is equally as good (my friends love em) If budget is a factor get the one that is less expensive.  I know the Y-Foil is a wee bit heavier.  If I were you I would go to the Chain Reaction web site and read what they say.  I got mine from thoes folks and never had a minute of buyers remorse. Good luck Peter McIntosh

Response:

I think the Y-foil has a very relaxed seat angle ( 71 – 72  ???) this goes exactly opposite what most current triathlon frame builders are doing. Getting into a real comfortable aero position will be more difficult then on a tri specific geometry. Why would Trek put such a relaxed seat angle on a bike with an aero looking frame is a good question? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I crashed my bike and need to replace the frame and forks.  I have been pricing the Trek OCLV standard frame and their Y foil frame.  They both cost the same and are with in my budget.  I haven’t gotten to ride either of them but did ride their aluminum frame and loved it.  I would love to hear any comments about these frames.  Thanks. Chip

Response:

Question:

The ultimax socks are freat for narrow as well as wide feet (I have an A width foot).  I stay away from thick socks at any distance especially thorlos. I’ve never complete a run wearing thorlos without massive blister problems. OF course I stopped trying to wear the two pair of thorlos after two or three runs in each pair all of wich lead to blisters.  So it jut goes to show like almost everything else we are all individuals and you need to test things out to see what works for you. Tom : I would say for long distances wear some thicker socks (or socks with : some kind of padding) like Thorlos. The thin coolmax ones work for me : too. I’ve used them to run half-marathons, but I don’t think they can be : used for much long distances. Well…or maybe it depends on your running : style. I’m pretty light as it is. : Conal

: : : : I can only run is the super thin Coolmax Ironman Triathlon : : socks from Ultimax. (mostly because my barges er feet are so wide.) : : Different socks for different feet…. : : : : : : Johnny : : : :

: : : : : : Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive : : than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the : : cost. : : : : LB : : socks won’t make you a better runner : : : : I’ve noticed my feet not only stay drier in ThorLo’s, but have much less : : frequency of shin discomfort since using them.  So, if you can run more : : because you’re injured less . . . gee, I guess maybe socks *can* make you a : : better runner. : : Artemis

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The double layer Coolmax ones are excellent.  Ever since using them, I do not get blisters which in the past, was a given when running anything over 18 miles on my two crooked toes. Now even after marathons, no blisters……

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Try the "Ironman Triathlon" ones…..they’re the best IMO

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Try the "Ironman Triathlon" ones…..they’re the best IMO

I’ve always wondered about those socks… do the triathletes wear them while swimming too? -Laurel Amberdine

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For a thin socks, I sell mostly smartwool ultra-thin running- http://st5.yahoo.net/ghp/smarrunulthi.html but thorlo makes a great lightweight- http://st5.yahoo.net/ghp/noname3.html for a thicker sock that keeps your feet dry, either the smartwool running- http://st5.yahoo.net/ghp/smarrun.html or the thorlos running http://st5.yahoo.net/ghp/runningthorlos.html Good luck, Art – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would say for long distances wear some thicker socks (or socks with some kind of padding) like Thorlos. The thin coolmax ones work for me too. I’ve used them to run half-marathons, but I don’t think they can be used for much long distances. Well…or maybe it depends on your running style. I’m pretty light as it is. Conal : : I can only run is the super thin Coolmax Ironman Triathlon : socks from Ultimax. (mostly because my barges er feet are so wide.) : Different socks for different feet…. : : : Johnny : : : : : Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive : than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the : cost. : : LB : socks won’t make you a better runner : : I’ve noticed my feet not only stay drier in ThorLo’s, but have much less : frequency of shin discomfort since using them.  So, if you can run more : because you’re injured less . . . gee, I guess maybe socks *can* make you a : better runner. : Artemis

Response:

I would say for long distances wear some thicker socks (or socks with some kind of padding) like Thorlos. The thin coolmax ones work for me too. I’ve used them to run half-marathons, but I don’t think they can be used for much long distances. Well…or maybe it depends on your running style. I’m pretty light as it is. Conal

: : I can only run is the super thin Coolmax Ironman Triathlon : socks from Ultimax. (mostly because my barges er feet are so wide.) : Different socks for different feet…. : : : Johnny : :

:

: : Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive : than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the : cost. : : LB : socks won’t make you a better runner : : I’ve noticed my feet not only stay drier in ThorLo’s, but have much less : frequency of shin discomfort since using them.  So, if you can run more : because you’re injured less . . . gee, I guess maybe socks *can* make you a : better runner. : Artemis

Response:

I can only run is the super thin Coolmax Ironman Triathlon socks from Ultimax. (mostly because my barges er feet are so wide.) Different socks for different feet…. Johnny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the cost. LB socks won’t make you a better runner I’ve noticed my feet not only stay drier in ThorLo’s, but have much less frequency of shin discomfort since using them.  So, if you can run more because you’re injured less . . . gee, I guess maybe socks *can* make you a better runner. Artemis

Response:

Thorlos are great(I’m waering them now) *but* they are thick, and may not fit in your normal shoe size.  Im wearing them this winter, then I’ll switch back to Wigwam Ultimax(my faves). Scott Hoffman

Response:

Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the cost. LB socks won’t make you a better runner

I’ve noticed my feet not only stay drier in ThorLo’s, but have much less frequency of shin discomfort since using them.  So, if you can run more because you’re injured less . . . gee, I guess maybe socks *can* make you a better runner. Artemis

Response:

If you’re around Boston, the Ultimax socks are available at MVP Sports (a local (?) chain). — Ray Charbonneau R107 – End User Computing The MITRE Corporation – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry? I’ve tried several brands and nothing beats Wigwam Ultimax socks. They are made of Coolmax, they are very durable and comfortable.

Response:

I use both Thurlo and Ultimax. I use the Ultimax, with a coolmax liner sock, for long runs over 2 hours. I’ve found the Thurlos tend to hold moisture more so use them on shorter runs of up to 2 hours. I like the "cushioning" of the Thurlos, but they do compress over time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ernsign asked: What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry? I’ve tried several brands and nothing beats Wigwam Ultimax socks. They are made of Coolmax, they are very durable and comfortable. I get mine at REI for $6.75/pair I agree with Phil on the Wigwam but many also have good luck with Thorlo, although Thorlo tend to be thicker. Some people the like additional thickness. — Caveat Lector!

– Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS* Trails of The Diablo Valley           *Running – Hiking – Nature*             http://come.to/diablo-valley-trails

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Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the cost. LB

socks won’t make you a better runner

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It seems to me I heard somewhere that Runner wrote in article Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the cost. socks won’t make you a better runner

But bad socks may make you a worse runner if they cause blisters or chafing during a run. — Don          

Response:

I’ve been running in cotton socks, which are comfortable and which I, perhaps erroneously, believed would keep my feet drier. Now, I read in Runner’s World that acrylic socks are better because the wick away moisture. What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry? Thanks! Ernie

        I always wear Kodiak work socks.It gets pretty cold here(Canada) and these keep my feet warm year round.In summer they don’t seem to give me blisters as much as cotton socks did,you just have to make sure there are no wrinkles in the toes.  :)         Pedro (freezing my butt in the northlands)

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Thor Lo socks are the only socks I run in. They are a bit more expensive than other brands though… the comfort they provide is well worth the cost. LB

Response:

What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry?

I’ve tried several brands and nothing beats Wigwam Ultimax socks. They are made of Coolmax, they are very durable and comfortable. I get mine at REI for $6.75/pair http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2219&prm…    -Phil

Response:

What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry? I’ve tried several brands and nothing beats Wigwam Ultimax socks. They are made of Coolmax, they are very durable and comfortable. I get mine at REI for $6.75/pair http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2219&prm…    -Phil

I buy my Wigwam socks at justsocks.com

Response:

ernsign asked: What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry? I’ve tried several brands and nothing beats Wigwam Ultimax socks. They are made of Coolmax, they are very durable and comfortable. I get mine at REI for $6.75/pair

I agree with Phil on the Wigwam but many also have good luck with Thorlo, although Thorlo tend to be thicker. Some people the like additional thickness.   — Caveat Lector!

Response:

I’ve been running in cotton socks, which are comfortable and which I, perhaps erroneously, believed would keep my feet drier. Now, I read in Runner’s World that acrylic socks are better because the wick away moisture. What socks do you all recommend for running, with an eye to keeping the ol’ toes dry? Thanks! Ernie

Response:

try a pair that are made from coolmax    you will never go back in fact my shirts are also coolmax    great stuff Rich Chicago IL

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Question:

I would like to compete in a sprint distance  Triathlon or duathlon late this summer!!  Could anyone please help me out with a training program / guidelines..

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you could try  http://w3.one.net/~triweb/essent.html  for some good intro advice. I would like to compete in a sprint distance  Triathlon or duathlon late this summer!!  Could anyone please help me out with a training program / guidelines..

– Graduate Research Assistant                             (423) 974-8966 IRIS Lab, Electrical Engineering Dept, UTK

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i cant go there my pc sux and i can only e-mail and visit here basicaly…..

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Question:

Does anybody have any suggestions as to appropriate gear ratios for Nice?

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Does anybody have any suggestions as to appropriate gear ratios for Nice?

I’m not that strong on the bike and I use (50,39)x(12,20). Pro don’t even use the small ring! — F. Desprez

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Hi,         Living in Nice area, I’m used to train on the total bike part or on portions only. The race is not a hard race with very tough climbing portions, i would say it is designed for the powerful riders. I’m riding a 650 bike with 55/42 and I do not feel it being hard to use only the 55 ring. I think it can be good to have a 52 (700 wheels bikes) because of the going downs (descentes en Fran

Question:

I will be in San Antonio, Texas for a week and am hoping to get in a few miles. Are there any good places to run? I will be staying in the downtown area and won’t have a car. Thanks Steve G

Response:

Steve– Check out the Runner Triathlete News web site.  We have a list of running trails throughout the Southwest.  You can access the site at: http://www.runningnetwork.com/runtrinews You’ll need to click on the "Resources" section, scroll down to the bottom and click on the "View Part Articles" icon. From there, scroll down until you come to the "Texas Running Trails" option. Another good source of info for San Antonio is Roger Soler’s Sports. Call them at (210) 366-3701. Lance Phegley Editor Runner Triathlete News www.runningnetwork.com/runtrinews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in San Antonio, Texas for a week and am hoping to get in a few miles. Are there any good places to run? I will be staying in the downtown area and won’t have a car. Thanks Steve G

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Question:

ANYONE  FOLLOWING IRONMAN ONLINE?  WHAT SITE HAS BEST COVERAGE?  I CAN’T SEEM  TO FIND TRIATHLETE MAGAZINE WEB SITE.  QR WEB SITE IS PRETTY GOOD.

Response:

At Outside online "http://outside.starwave.com/events/ironman97/live.html" they have a good livereport, and also a chat-room, with only 2-4 participants. At triathletemag "http://207.159.139.162/97iron/" they also have good updates. At Inside triathlon they also file reports, but not so frequently "http://www.insidetri.com/race/97ironman/97ironman.html" At Rooworld the also have some articles, and good updates (sometimes with photos) "http://www.rooworld.com/kona.html" At Triathlete mag and at Outside online they have chatrooms. Have a good time following the Hawaii Ironman. Over here in Denmark we

Question:

Well Tri-Baby congratulations, but you have just lost your status as a MOPer (Middle of the Pack).  A few track sessions and a good swim and those pros are going to be in trouble.

chortle chortle Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

The last hundred yards were unexpectedly dramatic: I caught the gal I’d been trailing for a mile and we sprinted all out, neck and neck, right up to the line,  where I *just* nipped her and proceeded to bowl head over heels into the finish chute! That must have been one amazing last few yards. I saw Tricia come around the final turn, about 40 yards from the finish, in full-on sprint against this other woman. The other woman was lighter and seemingly faster and was holding on to a one foot lead; I was *sure* TriBaby would never catch her (and, from where I stood, didn’t think she did). So she must have put on an awesome final surge!  Way to go!

I consciously cut to the inside of that final corner in order to catch the girl.  I was still about a foot behind at that point, but slowly closed the gap. Quite frankly, TriBaby was *sure* she’d never catch her!  With less than 20 yards to go my mind was saying, "Just give it up, you can’t do it, let her go," but something deeper down inside said, "To hell with that!  Just keep pushing, she may yet run out of gas!"  And that’s what happened; she faded just before the line.  Either that or she just figured she had me and eased up a fraction of a second too soon.  Ha! Afterwards we hugged and I thanked her for keeping me moving the whole last half mile.  She said she wished I’d caught her sooner, she could have used the motivation!   Y’know, for all that it really was a meaningless sprint, it made me so proud.  Even if the gal had beaten me, the fact that I ignored the voice that told me to give up and instead pushed 110% to the finish still would have left me with an immense sense of satisfaction.   Stumbling and rolling across the grass, coming to a sliding halt flat on my back, it was one of the proudest moments of my life. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Well Tri-Baby congratulations, but you have just lost your status as a MOPer (Middle of the Pack).  A few track sessions and a good swim and those pros are going to be in trouble.

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Ran amazingly well, finishing up in 26:11, averaging 8:26 per mile for the 3.1 miles.  Believe me, that is fast for TriBaby.  The last hundred yards were unexpectedly dramatic: I caught the gal I’d been trailing for a mile and we sprinted all out, neck and neck, right up to the line,  where I *just* nipped her and proceeded to bowl head over heels into the finish chute!  Needless to say, the crowd loved that, and I didn’t mind in the least because I won the sprint.  I still can’t believe I did it; my legs were screaming at me that they couldn’t keep doing this, and my will screamed right back at them "Tough luck!  Go faster, and keep going, we’re gonna BEAT her!"  The moment I did so, my legs immediately asserted themselves and collapsed beneath me, and I rolled, breathless and laughing, across the grass to the cheers of the spectators.

These finishes always crack me up. Last weekend I did one of those friendly little local races with lots of people doing their first tri and/or their only tri of the year. Plenty of these people are soon-to-be-middle-aged men who seem to sign up for the race with their buddies.  They’re in the race not so much to finish as to do better than their friends. On the bike course, I saw plenty of these guys riding together.  I suppose they were technically drafting, but they were mostly riding side by side, making sure the other guy didn’t pull too far ahead. I got the impression that if any of them could do a track stand, the race would take all day. About 100 yds from the finish of the race, I was overtaken by five or six of these guys, going at not just a full sprint, but a wild, take-no-prisoners, getouttamyway, mad dash.  They were taking the turns like a ski racer takes slalom gates.  I have a feeling that someone told them there was a single beer at the finish line.  They all collapsed laughing like crazy as soon as they finished. — Dan Reiley, Ph.D.     Bell Labs       Naperville, IL

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The last hundred yards were unexpectedly dramatic: I caught the gal I’d been trailing for a mile and we sprinted all out, neck and neck, right up to the line,  where I *just* nipped her and proceeded to bowl head over heels into the finish chute!

That must have been one amazing last few yards. I saw Tricia come around the final turn, about 40 yards from the finish, in full-on sprint against this other woman. The other woman was lighter and seemingly faster and was holding on to a one foot lead; I was *sure* TriBaby would never catch her (and, from where I stood, didn’t think she did). So she must have put on an awesome final surge!  Way to go! However, last year we did not have to run our bikes through the transition area; this year we had to do so both going out and on the return, so that ate up a significant chunk of time.  

Interestingly enough, I was standing by the transition watching the pros leave and right after the last pro rode out, some race director started shouting to all the volunteers, "OK, that’s it, from now on everybody walks their bikes out of the transition area."  So the pros had a definite advantage! Otherwise, my swim was definitely slower by over a minute, but my bike and run were both a little bit faster (I believe).

Overall pro times were a little slow; maybe the swim or run were long too. Or maybe it was just the heat. Finally, Skippy successfully completed her second triathlon at Danskin, She was pleased as punch *not* to see Sally Edwards on the run!

Funny, as I was leaving the race, I was imagining what it would be like to be the last woman and to tell Sally Edwards, "Leave me alone, I want to do this by myself!"  I wonder if that’s ever happened? — Steve Patt  Stevens Creek Software  The Athlete’s Diary & Bookstore  WWW: http://www.stevenscreek.com  FTP: ftp.stevenscreek.com  1-800-TA-DIARY

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Why is it that every time there is a triathlon at San Jose’s Lake Almaden that it is the hottest day in weeks or months?  The record number of participants at yesterday’s Danksin San Jose tri (1,096 individual finishers!) had temperatures in the mid-90s to contend with.  We were bakin’. Fortunately for TriBaby, I was in the third out of *10* waves, so I started and finished before the heat got too intense.  Don’t know if I’ll have time to post a full report on the Danskin, but a quick summary:   Chose to wear my longjohn at the last minute and still had a dismal swim anyway, emerging from a half-mile in the lake in 13:20, rrrrrgh.  Took me 4 minutes to rip off the wetsuit, run to the bike, run the bike 150 yards or so outta the transition area (clop, clop, clop, clop….so much for these cleats), hop on and go.   Smoked the 13-mile bike course (it was supposed to be 12.4) in about 36 minutes, averaging 21.5 mph.  Nothing spectacular, but nobody passed me at least.  I held off one gal on a spanky red Kestral w/Spinergies who passed me at the 7-mile mark, catching her back and eventually dropping her before roaring back into the transition area. Ran amazingly well, finishing up in 26:11, averaging 8:26 per mile for the 3.1 miles.  Believe me, that is fast for TriBaby.  The last hundred yards were unexpectedly dramatic: I caught the gal I’d been trailing for a mile and we sprinted all out, neck and neck, right up to the line,  where I *just* nipped her and proceeded to bowl head over heels into the finish chute!  Needless to say, the crowd loved that, and I didn’t mind in the least because I won the sprint.  I still can’t believe I did it; my legs were screaming at me that they couldn’t keep doing this, and my will screamed right back at them "Tough luck!  Go faster, and keep going, we’re gonna BEAT her!"  The moment I did so, my legs immediately asserted themselves and collapsed beneath me, and I rolled, breathless and laughing, across the grass to the cheers of the spectators. Undoubtedly the most spectacular finish yet in TriBaby’s career to date! Not that it really counted for anything, ’cause the gal was from the previous wave so I had five minutes on her already, but you know how it is:  If there’s someone *just* ahead of you when you’re heading for the line, and you’ve got anything left in the tank, you just gotta go for it! It felt great. Final time:  1:20:58, 1:02 slower than last year However, last year we did not have to run our bikes through the transition area; this year we had to do so both going out and on the return, so that ate up a significant chunk of time.  Otherwise, my swim was definitely slower by over a minute, but my bike and run were both a little bit faster (I believe). So, I took 29th place (!) out of *305* (!!!) women in the 25-29 age group.  Hey, that puts me in top 10%, I’ll take it!  Out of the 1,096 individual finishers (I just can’t get over that) I was either 86th or 89th, I can’t remember which now. RST’s Roxanne Scott beat me by 9 measly seconds, dang it!  And she did so having to ride a borrowed steed for the bike course, because….god, I HATE this… her beautiful, gorgeous, shiny, 6-month old QR Special Edition was *STOLEN* two nights before the race.  She left it locked on her car rack overnight while staying with friends in a nice, squeaky-clean suburban neighborhood in Walnut Creek, and some loathesome bastard ripped it out of the rack.  :-(  :-(  :(  :( Poor thing, it’s just awful.  She didn’t let that stop her at Danskin, however.  She borrowed a friend’s road bike with no aerobars and old clip/strap pedals, and overcame not one but TWO flat tires suffered on a pre-race course ride on Saturday.  All went well during the race itself, and she finished up in 1:20:49, good for 17th out of 255 in the 30-34 age group, 84th overall.  Just think what she could have done with her own beautiful tri-machine! RST’s Peggy MacDowell-Cramer (sp?) won her age group. I’m not sure if it was 50-55 or ???, but she put in an *excellent* performance, finishing in 1:29 or 1:30.  This just a week after qualifying for Team USA at Nationals, way to go, Peggy!  I was privileged to meet her for the first time at Danskin, and what a delightful lady!  Full of fun, energy, and smiles.  A great pleasure to meet you, Peggy.  Hope to get to see you at more races. The San Jose Danskin was also graced by the presence of Triathlon’s famous "Top Nun", Sister Madonna Buder, who travelled down from her home in Washington state to win the women’s 65-89 age division. As for the pros, Joy Hansen-Leutner won in something like 1:03:xx, followed by Lauren Alexander, Jennifer Gutierrez, and Holly Nybo. Other RSTers at the race included Sarah Gilliland and a couple of "lurkers" who recognized me from my descriptions on RST (not to mention one of them saw my license plate!).  Hi to Lisa and Rachel!  Lisa wasn’t racing, but Rachel, how did you do?   A couple of the guys also came out to cheer on the gals; thanks to both Kurian Davis and Steve Patt for being out there.  I heard another male voice cheering "Go TriBaby!" at some point, but I have no idea who it was; I presume it was an RSTer, so Thank you!  to whoever it was. Finally, Skippy successfully completed her second triathlon at Danskin, finishing in 2:17:xx.  She had a good swim (19:30) and a better-than-expected bike (57:xx), but less than 1/4 mile into the run her shin splints acted up and she was forced to walk nearly the entire run. However, she finished with a big smile on her face as she "flew" over the line and accepted her Danskin finisher’s medal.  She was pleased as punch *not* to see Sally Edwards on the run!  (If you don’t know, Sally Edwards does every single Danskin event and pledges to be the LAST finisher over the line so that no other participant ever has to say she was last in the race).  Don’t know yet what Skippy’s final place was, but I’m pretty sure she must have beaten at least 100 women, so I think she’ll be satisfied. Cheers! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Question:

Has anyone heard if and when the Cabrillo and Sandman Triathlons are being held this year in Santa Cruz, Ca.? I haven’t found info on these events. Can you help? Thanks

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As the subject line says   "Need Dates" I’ve been married for ages now and boy could I use a date. What does this have to do with triathlons?  Only a fellow trigeek would put up with a trigeeks lifestyle so I figure I’d look here first TriDork

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As the subject line says   "Need Dates" I’ve been married for ages now and boy could I use a date. What does this have to do with triathlons?  Only a fellow trigeek would put up with a trigeeks lifestyle so I figure I’d look here first TriDork

Ha!  TriDork, you don’t know diddly ’bout what "Need Dates" means.  I, on the other hand, know all there is to know on the subject.  All you gorgeous single TriHunks out there, Beware!  TriBaby on the prowl…..rrrRRRRRRowrrrr…. On a different note (!), I don’t believe the Sandman and Cabrillo events are happening any more.  Weren’t they among the productions of the embattled Northwind Promotions, which blows no more ’round Santa Cruz shores? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Last year the Cabrillo (2nd Annual) was held the third Sunday of May.  Doesn’t look to be happening this year.  It benefited Cabrillo College’s Sports programs.  It was not put on by the infamous, Pat Gilbert, but rather a different Santa Cruz race promoter. — Last year, The Sandman (in it’s 10th yr) was held the first Sunday of August. This race was co-sponsored by the Santa Cruz Jr. Lifeguard program and again, was not put on by Pat Gilbert. We can only hope that the Sandman will continue as it is quintessential Triathlon:  Ocean swim, beautiful bike course, and coastal/sand beach run.  Low-key, non-flashy vibes.  California triathlon at it’s finest! Happy training.

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. t!news.celestar.com!nntp.et.byu.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!charn e

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Your 2 cents accepted. I still think a hilly ten miles is a long way on a plastic seat and cold forged steel frame. I know that I wouldn’t want to do it. My son does like to race but he is also very competetive — in his own right — not only for me. He "races" in every aspect of his life, schoolwork, spelling bees, even stuff that isn’t supposed to be competetive. I was the same way as a kid. I know also that you’re right about a cheap bike being all you need to overcome those kids with the serious equipment. My son won a bike race against a kid with goggles and an aero helmet and a little miniature TREK.  She couldn’t figure out how to shift and was spun out in the last hundred yards. Still, if I find something in the right price range, we’ll probably end up with it. My kid has a spoiling grandma too — –   S. Sanders

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My son does like to race but he is also very competetive — in his own right — not only for me. He "races" in every aspect of his life, schoolwork, spelling bees, even stuff that isn’t supposed to be competetive. I was the same way as a kid.

It would be interesting if we could see these two little guys five or ten years down the line: who still thinks triathlon is a blast and who may not think so. Ruth Kazez

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 I found a 24” wheeled Schwinn Cabrolet (now sold by Giant) for my 9 year old daughter for $ 150.00.  I then had the local bike shop lace up two new 650cm areo Sun rims with skinny tires and tubes for about another $140.00.  They fit fine with only minor brake adjustments. We also found some used brake levers that were 1/4 the weight of the stock ones for $15.00.  So for about $ 300.00, we’ve got her racing for a few years, plus we can always take the rims on up to her next bike.  Goodluck

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My 8 year old son just finished his first tri. He did really well for his first time — did the 5K in 24 minutes, but his bike is a Toys-R-Us piece of crap and it took him about 70 minutes to ride 10 miles. He wasn’t overtired, he just couldn’t get a lot more out of the bike, especially on the hills. Does anyone have any recommendations as to a bike for him. He’s only about 50 inches tall. I don’t want to spend a fortune on something he’ll outgrow in six months either. Thanks in advance. –

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: My 8 year old son just finished his first tri. He did really well for his : first time — did the 5K in 24 minutes, but his bike is a Toys-R-Us piece : of crap and it took him about 70 minutes to ride 10 miles. He wasn’t : overtired, he just couldn’t get a lot more out of the bike, especially on : the hills. : Does anyone have any recommendations as to a bike for him. He’s only : about 50 inches tall. I don’t want to spend a fortune on something he’ll : outgrow in six months either. : Thanks in advance. : – My son started tri-ing last year as an eight year old as well. His first race was a mountain bike duathlon. He was second last out of about 12 kids heading out on the run. I told him to save himself for the end. He came into the run/bike transition in 5th. By the end of the race he had moved up to 3rd. Wow was he happy! He rides on a piece of crap 5 speed mountain bike. He is happy with the bike since it has gears, that’s all he cares about. He does want some real bike shorts like his dad though. In his first tri, he was 11th of 12 (again) out of the outdoor pool, about 3-1/2 min behind the leader,after only a 100m swim. He passed 3 kids on the bike and another 3 on the run, to finish 5th, only 15 seconds out of 3rd place. His grandmother bought him a wetsuit (boy does she spoil him) to help his swim splits. Where is all this leading? Just another proud father? well yes and no. Of course I’m glad he did well, but how he enjoyed the racing experience is more important. I race for fun and so does he. Racing for him is a goal to look forward to and a reason for us to train together. When it comes to bikes… cheap junk is fine for 8 year olds. My son has beaten other 8 year olds with road bikes with disc wheel covers, aero bars, and fancy drinking systems. Don’t waste your money on a fancy bike unless you have tons to spare. I which case I NEED a QR kilo. The important thing is for the child to WANT to race, not to do it for their parents. If they enjoy it, they’ll keep doing it. When the equipment becomes a seriously limiting factor and the kid asks for new wheels, then get a better bike. Just my 2 cents…you asked afterall. TriDork Marcus Perry

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 Were you there last year? Wilkes Barre last year was the longest swim I’ve ever done, broken into 3 sections, One with a wetsuit, One on a bike and one with shoes. How they managed to get water to form hills I’ll never know. The really challenging part was NOT getting hit by the lightening1 during the first swim leg.

Tridork: The real challenge was not getting hit by the tree that fell across the road, it came down in the middle of the pro field, I jumped offthe motor bike and dragged as much out of the way as I could. I have never seen it rain that hard in my life. I’ll be there again this year, hope to see all you rster’s Bruce Platt

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Wilkes Barre last year was the longest swim I’ve ever done, broken into 3 sections, One with a wetsuit, One on a bike and one with shoes. How they managed to get water to form hills I’ll never know. The really challenging part was NOT getting hit by the lightening1 during the first swim leg.

Did I mention "challenging?"  When I did Nationals at Wilkes Barre in ‘88, one woman in my age group wore her wetsuit for the entire bike.  I should have.  It ranks with Muskoka and Wellington as one of the three races completely off the yardstick.  In fact, I think it rates as #1. But the organization should be emulated by other race directors. Ruth Kazez

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: To all who care…we in Wilkes-Barre do not approve of drafting.   Jim : Harris PNTA : I care.  Wilkes-Barre is one of the best run and challenging races I : know. : I’ve done it twice and will be there again next year. : Ruth Kazez Ruth,   Were you there last year? Wilkes Barre last year was the longest swim I’ve ever done, broken into 3 sections, One with a wetsuit, One on a bike and one with shoes. How they managed to get water to form hills I’ll never know. The really challenging part was NOT getting hit by the lightening1 during the first swim leg.   If you think Wilkes Barre was well run (it was) you’d love the Presidents Choice series here in Ontario Canada. I had a great time at Wilkes Barre (I should say I enjoyed myself, since my times were slow) I managed a PR on the bike, even in the rain and with the hills. I think I was just trying to keep warm!   I was glad to hear that it’s no longer an ITU race since the race director won’t allow drafting. Three cheers to the race director with the guts! TriDork

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To all who care…we in Wilkes-Barre do not approve of drafting.   Jim Harris PNTA

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To all who care…we in Wilkes-Barre do not approve of drafting.   Jim Harris PNTA

I care.  Wilkes-Barre is one of the best run and challenging races I know. I’ve done it twice and will be there again next year. Ruth Kazez

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If there is a race that you would like to do but that also allows drafting, don’t do it.  Take the same $0.32 that you were going to spend on your race app. and send a letter to the rd telling him that you passed on his race and why.   Then send a photocopy to Tri Fed.

This is such a great idea that I thought it should be highlighted and repeated.  Good advice Randy! kbb Kim B. Blair, Ph.D.                     Senior Staff Scientist 1033 Massachusetts Ave                  (617) 354-3124 Cambridge, MA  02138                    (617) 491-4522 (fax)

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For month now Ive been following the thread on legal vs non-legal drafting. It seems apparent to me that the vast majority of rst’ers are against drafting as I am.  So why continue with the empty posts? You are not at the mercy of TriFed Or ITU or the USOC.  Triathlon will continue with or without these organizations.  They are here for the benefit of the triathletes and supported by the athletes.  Here lies the power. $$$$ If there is a race that you would like to do but that also allows drafting, don’t do it.  Take the same $0.32 that you were going to spend on your race app. and send a letter to the rd telling him that you passed on his race and why.  Then send a photocopy to Tri Fed. If a few thousand people take this stand, rds will get the message.  If Tri Fed decides to follow ITU and embrace drafting, then skkip the yearly license,  Tri Fed may just evaporate if it has to rely on one day licenses only.  They are your governing body. They are to make rules that apply to your sport, not theirs.  This weekend Tri Fed is holding a board of directors meeting.  Send your posts to them now. Maybe if enough mouths sing the same song they will have to dance to it. In short don’t let those in power take your sport away from you.  Use your money time and effort to make sure that they work for you or take their power away.  But please don’t the discontment stop in cyberspace.  The races are not held here.  

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