Question:

I recently tried both tops for the weekend of the American triple-t in Ohio for 4 races.  The T1 pullover came off easy by itself and ironically, the dos sleeveless top was more difficult.  What I started doing/discovered is as I’m exiting the swim, I actually grab the bottom of the dos top and do a quick dunk.  While I "dunk" myself once into the water, I open the bottom of the suit and the water pressure basically takes the top off in about half of a second as I pull it off at the same time.  The water pressure and motion actually does most of the work so you don’t have to be super strong or flexible.  I just run from the swim with it in one hand and pull the bib-john’s straps down as I jog to T1.  Overall, it is then as quick as any other suit to get out of but much more comfortable to swim in. email me for any other questions, nick

Response:

John, It took me 2 races and a few pool sessions to finally get it off but I found the key. As you leave the water just rip it up and bend over at the same time. Yes it took practice but I finally did it and now its no problem. And I am about as inflixible as you can get. Now that it comes off it really is the best wetsuit out there! Practice

Response:

Thanks,  I’ll try rolling up a few inches this next week after my long swim to see if I can get out of it without tying myself in a knot again. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just tried on my New T1 DOS.    That is an experience.   it is the perfect size for me according to Emilio based on my body part measurements I sent him. Getting it on was taxing but doable with plastic bags.   Once on, I took a garden hose and filled it up by injecting water down the neck and arms. Everything moved into place where it felt comfortable or sort of.    The water inside did the trick by allowing the suit to slightly inflate and move about as I moved my arms. OK,  I can live with that and will add a garden hose to my triathlon kit. Now,  getting the thing off was something else.   I managed to get the top started but then got stuck.   I just could not get the thing to come up over my Lats where it hung.  I squirmed, twisted, pulled and wiggled but in the end had to have the wify rescue me. This is going to take some practice, a bit more flexibility, a nuclear device added to T1 gear and probably more practice.   I remember my good old one piece suit that just pulled off with a few well planted feet.    The john came off with no problem. Below is a discussion with information and a tip regarding ease of removal (note: this is a shortened version of a prior post below): With regard to removal, I have come to the conclusion that Wetsuits are in two distinct categories – Fast/Easy or Slow/Difficult. The fast and easy category seems to have zippers. And, the wetsuit with more, longer or sophisticated zippers are the easiest to remove. Unfortunately, (unless they are sleeveless and/or have calve length legs)they tend to be restrictive (i.e., high necks, ankle length) and pretty much uncomfortable for longer swims. Not to mention, they force you change your stroke length (as has been noted by DeSoto’s). Many of these issues seem to be tackled by the DeSoto T1. Unfortunately, the ease of removal can be considered a relative concept. To borrow a quote from a testimonial,- "Found when I just grabbed the hem of the top crossarmed I bunched the fabric in the back & couldn’t pull past the lump. Worked better when I first folded up 4in or so of the hem, to reduce bunching. Then I found something that worked better for me: pulled some of the L hem over my L elbow & used the strength of my deltoid to get the removal started; came off easier. You might want to have some others experiment with these or alternative ways to get past the strength problem some old athletes (I’m 65) & some women might experience." O.K., I’ve been a triathlete (17+ yr.) and use to many a discomfort, but to use the deltoid muscle to get the top off? The last thing I find easy to do is use your neck muscles, arms and deltoids to remove a top. After a long open water swim, I find the neck and shoulder muscles to be the MOST fatigued. So, from that perspective, a zipper could certainly be handy. In that sense, a zippered, sleeveless and calve length wet suit would make more sense for a sprint. It would have the best of "most" attributes needed for such a SHORT swim- 1) ease of removal (both from the leg and upper body standpoint) & 2) allows you to suffer the least from restrictive (ie.,neck rashes, tight chest/hindered breathing). And, the trade off seems to be loss of some bouyancy. On other hand, A T1 for a half-Ironman (and maybe a really tough I.D.) or longer may pay off from a comfort, stroke efficiency and buoyancy standpoint. In essence, transitions become less relevant. If I follow through on this logic, I need to own 2 wetsuits; one for sprints (maybe I.D. also) & one for half-IM’s or longer (i.e.,"Piel" and/vs. "T1"). Bottom line, try a Piel if you want speed and a near effortless removal.  On the other hand, a T1 is an excellent suit for triathlons where T1 speed is not important or you likes it flexibility and swim like stroke feel. FWIW  Joe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just tried on my New T1 DOS.    That is an experience.   it is the perfect size for me according to Emilio based on my body part measurements I sent him. Getting it on was taxing but doable with plastic bags.   Once on, I took a garden hose and filled it up by injecting water down the neck and arms. Everything moved into place where it felt comfortable or sort of.    The water inside did the trick by allowing the suit to slightly inflate and move about as I moved my arms. OK,  I can live with that and will add a garden hose to my triathlon kit. Now,  getting the thing off was something else.   I managed to get the top started but then got stuck.   I just could not get the thing to come up over my Lats where it hung.  I squirmed, twisted, pulled and wiggled but in the end had to have the wify rescue me. This is going to take some practice, a bit more flexibility, a nuclear device added to T1 gear and probably more practice.   I remember my good old one piece suit that just pulled off with a few well planted feet.    The john came off with no problem.

Below is a discussion with information and a tip regarding ease of removal (note: this is a shortened version of a prior post below): With regard to removal, I have come to the conclusion that Wetsuits are in two distinct categories – Fast/Easy or Slow/Difficult. The fast and easy category seems to have zippers. And, the wetsuit with more, longer or sophisticated zippers are the easiest to remove. Unfortunately, (unless they are sleeveless and/or have calve length legs)they tend to be restrictive (i.e., high necks, ankle length) and pretty much uncomfortable for longer swims. Not to mention, they force you change your stroke length (as has been noted by DeSoto’s). Many of these issues seem to be tackled by the DeSoto T1. Unfortunately, the ease of removal can be considered a relative concept. To borrow a quote from a testimonial,- "Found when I just grabbed the hem of the top crossarmed I bunched the fabric in the back & couldn’t pull past the lump. Worked better when I first folded up 4in or so of the hem, to reduce bunching. Then I found something that worked better for me: pulled some of the L hem over my L elbow & used the strength of my deltoid to get the removal started; came off easier. You might want to have some others experiment with these or alternative ways to get past the strength problem some old athletes (I’m 65) & some women might experience." O.K., I’ve been a triathlete (17+ yr.) and use to many a discomfort, but to use the deltoid muscle to get the top off? The last thing I find easy to do is use your neck muscles, arms and deltoids to remove a top. After a long open water swim, I find the neck and shoulder muscles to be the MOST fatigued. So, from that perspective, a zipper could certainly be handy. In that sense, a zippered, sleeveless and calve length wet suit would make more sense for a sprint. It would have the best of "most" attributes needed for such a SHORT swim- 1) ease of removal (both from the leg and upper body standpoint) & 2) allows you to suffer the least from restrictive (ie.,neck rashes, tight chest/hindered breathing). And, the trade off seems to be loss of some bouyancy. On other hand, A T1 for a half-Ironman (and maybe a really tough I.D.) or longer may pay off from a comfort, stroke efficiency and buoyancy standpoint. In essence, transitions become less relevant. If I follow through on this logic, I need to own 2 wetsuits; one for sprints (maybe I.D. also) & one for half-IM’s or longer (i.e.,"Piel" and/vs. "T1"). Bottom line, try a Piel if you want speed and a near effortless removal.  On the other hand, a T1 is an excellent suit for triathlons where T1 speed is not important or you likes it flexibility and swim like stroke feel. FWIW  Joe

Response:

Ken, my wife had the same problem and ,after the fact, noticed in the directions to make sure the suit is wet when removing. She tried it on in the house and could not remove it without my help and that still took some doing. They recommend taking the top off as soon as exiting the swim because you need the water to ‘lubricate’ the removal. andy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just tried on my New T1 DOS.    That is an experience.   it is the perfect size for me according to Emilio based on my body part measurements I sent him. Getting it on was taxing but doable with plastic bags.   Once on, I took a garden hose and filled it up by injecting water down the neck and arms. Everything moved into place where it felt comfortable or sort of.    The water inside did the trick by allowing the suit to slightly inflate and move about as I moved my arms. OK,  I can live with that and will add a garden hose to my triathlon kit. Now,  getting the thing off was something else.   I managed to get the top started but then got stuck.   I just could not get the thing to come up over my Lats where it hung.  I squirmed, twisted, pulled and wiggled but in the end had to have the wify rescue me. This is going to take some practice, a bit more flexibility, a nuclear device added to T1 gear and probably more practice.   I remember my good old one piece suit that just pulled off with a few well planted feet.    The john came off with no problem.

Response:

Just tried on my New T1 DOS.    That is an experience.   it is the perfect size for me according to Emilio based on my body part measurements I sent him. Getting it on was taxing but doable with plastic bags.   Once on, I took a garden hose and filled it up by injecting water down the neck and arms. Everything moved into place where it felt comfortable or sort of.    The water inside did the trick by allowing the suit to slightly inflate and move about as I moved my arms. OK,  I can live with that and will add a garden hose to my triathlon kit. Now,  getting the thing off was something else.   I managed to get the top started but then got stuck.   I just could not get the thing to come up over my Lats where it hung.  I squirmed, twisted, pulled and wiggled but in the end had to have the wify rescue me. This is going to take some practice, a bit more flexibility, a nuclear device added to T1 gear and probably more practice.   I remember my good old one piece suit that just pulled off with a few well planted feet.    The john came off with no problem.

Response:

Question:

I would recommend a Kawasaki.  I have one and I love it.  There is literally no stress on my legs at all.  With my old Cannondale I might do 20 or 25 miles on a good day……Now I can do 500+.  As for all your one.  That tidbit is more important than any training you will ever endure.

Response:

My 2 cents worth. Size and fit and service are more important than price and weight and top of the line components.  You should be able to get 99% of the available performance for under $600.  With help, you could get a used machine under $400, including any service and parts. Make certain you have access to the very best mechanics, whose services probably cost less than any other profession that comes to mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea of what to look for. If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, etc. Thanks for any help!

Response:

If you have a few extra $, for value you can’t go wrong with a Raleigh as a nice first (or second) road bike. You can pick up an aluminum frame, carbon fork, Ultegra components, Shimano 16-spoke wheels for $1250.  If you go with the lower model with Shimano 105’s I would guess $ would be a lot lower. I have one and have no problem keeping up with the $$$$ Litespeeds.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started as a runner, then went to biking and running, with some swimming as well- doing sprint triathlons.  My first bike was a Giant OCR3.  Great first bike and can be used in Du/Triathlons.  Should cost no more than $600-700.  You’ll also need a helmet and some biking clothes (padded spandex, which protect the butt on the long rides, wick sweat and are aerodynamic).  I still have my old Giant and ride it occasionally. Cross training with a bike is great exercise.  And even though some will disagree, I’ve found biking benefits running and vice versa. Keep in mind, the Giant is a starter bike.  Mid-range bikes begin at $1000 minimum and should include Shimano 105 or Tiagra equipment. Best of Luck! Brian : The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles : a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my : legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point : where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea : of what to look for. : : If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with : some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for : something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and : probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no : idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, : etc. : : Thanks for any help!

Response:

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!

Response:

I’m a serious road bikie in a serious bikie household.  (If quantity counts, between me, my wife, and our two kids we have well over two dozen bicycles here, everything from a $2 English 3-speed to a four tandems and a custom-built triplet.) In my opinion, someone like you would be best served by buying and riding a series of good quality but well used and relatively inexpensive bikes, e.g., something even 10-20 years old would work fine for you, something that perhaps has been sitting in someone’s garage used for the last decade after having been ridden a season or two.  If you look around at garage sales and thrift shops, you can often find something for next to no money.  I’d say if it has six or more cogs at the back, it’s an OK bike for you.  This means it’s probably no more than 20 years old. Buy a used bike, ride it for a while, and spend some time experimenting – replace the saddle, try different handlebars, try different riding positions (raise/lower the stem and saddle, slide the saddle forwards and backwards on its rails, try a longer or shorter stem, etc.)  Only by spending real time in the saddle in various positions can you know what you’ll like best. I did just this.  It took me several years to sort it all out, and when I knew what I wanted, I had a bicycle custom-built for me and have been a very happy camper ever since. Hope this helps some. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea of what to look for. If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, etc. Thanks for any help!

Response:

Taking the plunge on a reasonably priced new bike from a reputable bike store will save time, and you’ll get a bike that fits properly…..and fit is everything (almost).  You can get into a used bike for much less, however this takes time and research.  eBay is the best marketplace for buying used bikes, but be careful not to get into a bidding war and overpay.  There’s always a similar deal just around the corner.  Roadbikereview.com is an excellent resource for reviews, and they have a decent marketplace section as well.  If you see a "great" deal on a used bike remember that it’s only a great deal if the frame is the correct size.  Getting something too big, or too small can spell disaster. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started doing tri/-duathlons last season. At the end of the season I bought a used road bike (with aero bars) for $300.- (new price $1500). I am very happy with this bike. Look last year model (or used) bikes if you don’t want to spend to much. Slowtwitch has a bike review page: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/product2002/roadbikes/roadbike… ml Felix http://home.tiscalinet.ch/weilenmann/Sport Main thing is, don’t go buy a *mart bike.  Walmart, KMart, Sam’s Club, etc. They are more dangerous than they are cheap.  Go to a bike shop or get a used one.  Also, check rec.bicycles.misc for more info. Again, Good Luck! : If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with : some useful info, I’d appreciate it : :   Although I haven’t browsed it at great length, www.trinewbies.com seems : to have a lot of info on it. I’m getting back into running after many  years racing : bikes. A good road bike will cost you anywhere from $800 to oh-my-god!  I’d : suggest you go to a good bike shop in your area, explain what you want, :and how much you can afford, and let them guide you. Good luck. : : Jon Peace

Response:

I started doing tri/-duathlons last season. At the end of the season I bought a used road bike (with aero bars) for $300.- (new price $1500). I am very happy with this bike. Look last year model (or used) bikes if you don’t want to spend to much. Slowtwitch has a bike review page: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/product2002/roadbikes/roadbike… ml Felix http://home.tiscalinet.ch/weilenmann/Sport – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Main thing is, don’t go buy a *mart bike.  Walmart, KMart, Sam’s Club, etc. They are more dangerous than they are cheap.  Go to a bike shop or get a used one.  Also, check rec.bicycles.misc for more info. Again, Good Luck! : If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with : some useful info, I’d appreciate it : :   Although I haven’t browsed it at great length, www.trinewbies.com seems : to have a lot of info on it. I’m getting back into running after many years racing : bikes. A good road bike will cost you anywhere from $800 to oh-my-god! I’d : suggest you go to a good bike shop in your area, explain what you want, :and how much you can afford, and let them guide you. Good luck. : : Jon Peace

Response:

Hi- I have started tri training this spring. I recently bought a Specialized Allez and did some extensive searching and research. The Giants are good bikes (I have a mtn bike that is a Giant). I got my bike for about 40% off since it was last year’s model. This is a good way to save money- for about $600 US ($1000 Cad) I got a full aluminium frame with full tiagra components. The comperable 2002 bikes were the Trek 1000 (some Sora but mostly generic components, if they break they can’t be replaced.. Also had a chromoly fork) and a small Canadian made bike called Devinci (with Tiagra and Sora combo for $800). My friend has a Giant with Tiagra and I believe it was about $1400 cad. I think I got the best bang for my buck with last year’s model. You may be able to go used as well- get a bike from someone who buys a new one every 2 years, but be sure to have it inspected.. I personally would go with better components if you can..The Triathlon 101 book said- get the best bike you can afford.. Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started as a runner, then went to biking and running, with some swimming as well- doing sprint triathlons.  My first bike was a Giant OCR3.  Great first bike and can be used in Du/Triathlons.  Should cost no more than $600-700.  You’ll also need a helmet and some biking clothes (padded spandex, which protect the butt on the long rides, wick sweat and are aerodynamic).  I still have my old Giant and ride it occasionally. Cross training with a bike is great exercise.  And even though some will disagree, I’ve found biking benefits running and vice versa. Keep in mind, the Giant is a starter bike.  Mid-range bikes begin at $1000 minimum and should include Shimano 105 or Tiagra equipment. Best of Luck! Brian : The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles : a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my : legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point : where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea : of what to look for. : : If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with : some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for : something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and : probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no : idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, : etc. : : Thanks for any help!

Response:

The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea of what to look for. If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, etc. Thanks for any help!

Response:

I started as a runner, then went to biking and running, with some swimming as well- doing sprint triathlons.  My first bike was a Giant OCR3.  Great first bike and can be used in Du/Triathlons.  Should cost no more than $600-700.  You’ll also need a helmet and some biking clothes (padded spandex, which protect the butt on the long rides, wick sweat and are aerodynamic).  I still have my old Giant and ride it occasionally. Cross training with a bike is great exercise.  And even though some will disagree, I’ve found biking benefits running and vice versa. Keep in mind, the Giant is a starter bike.  Mid-range bikes begin at $1000 minimum and should include Shimano 105 or Tiagra equipment. Best of Luck! Brian

: The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles : a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my : legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point : where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea : of what to look for. : : If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with : some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for : something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and : probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no : idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, : etc. : : Thanks for any help!

Response:

Hi, Keep in mind, the Giant is a starter bike.  Mid-range bikes begin at $1000 minimum and should include Shimano 105 or Tiagra equipment.

Smile I don’t know Giant, but I would say it all depend on the goal you have. In (I think it was) ‘87 a guy (about 40 years) participated in a 1/2 Ironman (or actually a series where you did a 1/10, 1/6, 1/4 and 1/2) – he did that on a straight normal "city bike" with 5 inside gears (sure it had gears) and a flat "handle"! He still races, but he has also got a racing bike now. About 3-4 years ago he were in the dressing room after a 1/4 (I think) ironman, and someone told about this "strange guy" at this 1/2 ironman in ‘87. They all admired that someone could/would do that – but as the he said "it’s all a matter of your own expectations". Admitted, a racing bike is nice riding on, but it’s not a "must have" item. A "cheap" racing bike might be all what you need for getting "the right" feeling from racing. Don’t put a lot of expectations into fancy equipment, but in your training. Do use the _wrong_ equipment, since that can hurd you. Martin

Response:

If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with some useful info, I’d appreciate it

  Although I haven’t browsed it at great length, www.trinewbies.com seems to have a lot of info on it. I’m getting back into running after many years racing bikes. A good road bike will cost you anywhere from $800 to oh-my-god! I’d suggest you go to a good bike shop in your area, explain what you want, and how much you can afford, and let them guide you. Good luck. Jon Peace

Response:

Main thing is, don’t go buy a *mart bike.  Walmart, KMart, Sam’s Club, etc. They are more dangerous than they are cheap.  Go to a bike shop or get a used one.  Also, check rec.bicycles.misc for more info. Again, Good Luck!

: If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with : some useful info, I’d appreciate it : :   Although I haven’t browsed it at great length, www.trinewbies.com seems to : have a lot of info on it. I’m getting back into running after many years racing : bikes. A good road bike will cost you anywhere from $800 to oh-my-god! I’d : suggest you go to a good bike shop in your area, explain what you want, and how : much you can afford, and let them guide you. Good luck. : : Jon Peace

Response:

Go to a reputable bike shop or several and test ride several. You can find something decent within almost any budget.  See if you can find a 2001 model.  The price will be lower and most beginners would not know the difference between the variety of components.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The great bulk of my training is from running, usually about 55 miles a week.  Lately I’ve tried to bike a bit to take some stress off my legs– and I’ve always borrowed someone else’s bike.  I’m at the point where I’d like to buy one of my own and would like to have some idea of what to look for. If anyone has any tips they could provide….or maybe a website with some useful info, I’d appreciate it.  I’m basically looking for something that I’d use for a duathlon every now and then….and probably no more than 40 miles a week of training.  I just have no idea how much I should expect to pay, what features to be looking for, etc. Thanks for any help!

Response:

Question:

 The xray showed the stress fracture and now I can’t run for 3 weeks.

That’s a bummer. The doctor did say that since it now showed up on the xray, it was already healing and it was a very microscopic stress fracture.

That’s good news! I told him about my triathlon in Aug and he didn’t think it would be a problem to do it.

Very good news! Funny thing is the fracture is at the bottom of the tibia and the soreness I feel is in the foot. I am almost thinking that they are two unrelated problems and the foot pain is something else. If I really had a stress fracture I would have thought it would hurt during my race Sunday instead of 2 days later.

That’s part of why my PF took so long to diagnose because the welts from the AT were so obvious, but after they went down, I still had the pain in the bottom of my heels. I saw your other thread. Good luck! Dot

Response:

Hi Dot, thanks for the wish of good luck. I think I am going to need it. I really don’t think the pain is from the stress fracture because it hurt on the elliptical trainer tonight. I am really getting discouraged though. My concern is that I will rest the 3 weeks like I am supposed to and this problem will be something unrelated and I will have wasted 3 weeks waiting to find out that it is some other problem. I am considering seeing a podiatrist that works in sports medicine. No one can even seem to tell me what type of arches I have and the right shoes I should be wearing. I had conflicting answers from 2 doctors in the same office. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  The xray showed the stress fracture and now I can’t run for 3 weeks. That’s a bummer. The doctor did say that since it now showed up on the xray, it was already healing and it was a very microscopic stress fracture. That’s good news! I told him about my triathlon in Aug and he didn’t think it would be a problem to do it. Very good news! Funny thing is the fracture is at the bottom of the tibia and the soreness I feel is in the foot. I am almost thinking that they are two unrelated problems and the foot pain is something else. If I really had a stress fracture I would have thought it would hurt during my race Sunday instead of 2 days later. That’s part of why my PF took so long to diagnose because the welts from the AT were so obvious, but after they went down, I still had the pain in the bottom of my heels. I saw your other thread. Good luck! Dot

Response:

Michele, I believe PF is supposed to hurt when touched, at least in the more painful cases. I had it (as well as Achilles tendonitis and a bum shoulder at the same time) several years ago. I was treated for the AT and shoulder first because they were causing the most problems, and by the time I had the orthopedist look at the PF (I didn’t realize it was something separate from the AT), it was not sore to touch. However, he did repeatedly press the bottom of my foot in several areas, just in front of the heel where the plantar fascia attaches to the heel bone, specifically to see if it hurt. I am interpreting that to mean that pain to touch is frequently a symptom. However, I just looked at the small pamphlet on heel pain that he had given me, and I don’t see it listed as a symptom. But I wouldn’t take that pamphlet to be complete. Having problems walking when you first get out of bed is a major symptom, which you don’t seem to have. Once I got over the main part of it and slowly got back into running, I found that running (within reason) seemed to help, while standing and sitting for long periods (like driving to meetings and then sitting there for hours) seemed to aggravate it. I think this is real, and not just providing me an excuse not to go to meetings in the city My PF and AT started gradually, BUT I didn’t recognize the symptoms, nor had I even heard of plantar fasciatus. (hadn’t bumped into rec.running then) While I ran occasionally then, it was inconsistent, but usually only 4km on a run, but anywhere from 2 to 5 times a week, depending on work, weather, and snow conditions. With 20-20 hindsight, the AT and PF probably built over several months with several kinds of activities, probably beginning in late winter or spring. I’m a field vegetation ecologist in Alaska, so during field season bumps and bruises and a little pain are the norm. To make a long story short, they caught my attention in a major way when I couldn’t tie my hiking boots because of the pain, and I could hardly stand to read my plots. Now that I know the symptoms and the consequences of ignoring them, I pay a lot more attention to pain in the foot area. Your symptoms don’t sound like mine, but if they persist, you would be wise to see a doctor, which sounds like you were planning on doing anyway. Severe PF is no fun. Good luck! BTW, something my orthopedist suggested when he was fitting me with orthotics is that a good exercise is to try lifting up your forefoot and toes while sitting, or even just resting them on a phone book while sitting (toes on book, heels on floor). His contention is that the normal amount of stretching that most people do isn’t really enough. By doing this even while sitting in an office, you can work on stretching the fascia. Something else he suggested I not do, is "toe presses" (not sure of their official name) that I was using to buildup calf muscles and I thought would also help the achilles tendon. Apparently that shortens the calf muscles, and what I really needed to be doing was lengthening the calf muscle or shortening the one on the shin (not sure of its name either). Dot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did some research but everything I read gave symptoms that were different for lots of people. Pain seemed to be in lots of different locations. One thing I couldn’t find was whether or not it would hurt to the touch, which it doesn’t. If anyone has had plantar fasciitis, would it hurt to touch and does it start overnight or is it a gradual thing?

Response:

Thanks for the response Dot. Still sore this morning so I decided to call the doctor who had me come in. He also pressed in the heel area which didn’t hurt a bit. Still hurts in the arch area toward the heel when I walk but he did an xray. I had been told I had bilateral stress fractures back in the beginning of April but after a week the pain went away so my other doctor told me I could run if there was no pain. The xray showed the stress fracture and now I can’t run for 3 weeks. The doctor did say that since it now showed up on the xray, it was already healing and it was a very microscopic stress fracture. I told him about my triathlon in Aug and he didn’t think it would be a problem to do it. Funny thing is the fracture is at the bottom of the tibia and the soreness I feel is in the foot. I am almost thinking that they are two unrelated problems and the foot pain is something else. If I really had a stress fracture I would have thought it would hurt during my race Sunday instead of 2 days later. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michele, I believe PF is supposed to hurt when touched, at least in the more painful cases. I had it (as well as Achilles tendonitis and a bum shoulder at the same time) several years ago. I was treated for the AT and shoulder first because they were causing the most problems, and by the time I had the orthopedist look at the PF (I didn’t realize it was something separate from the AT), it was not sore to touch. However, he did repeatedly press the bottom of my foot in several areas, just in front of the heel where the plantar fascia attaches to the heel bone, specifically to see if it hurt. I am interpreting that to mean that pain to touch is frequently a symptom. However, I just looked at the small pamphlet on heel pain that he had given me, and I don’t see it listed as a symptom. But I wouldn’t take that pamphlet to be complete. Having problems walking when you first get out of bed is a major symptom, which you don’t seem to have. Once I got over the main part of it and slowly got back into running, I found that running (within reason) seemed to help, while standing and sitting for long periods (like driving to meetings and then sitting there for hours) seemed to aggravate it. I think this is real, and not just providing me an excuse not to go to meetings in the city My PF and AT started gradually, BUT I didn’t recognize the symptoms, nor had I even heard of plantar fasciatus. (hadn’t bumped into rec.running then) While I ran occasionally then, it was inconsistent, but usually only 4km on a run, but anywhere from 2 to 5 times a week, depending on work, weather, and snow conditions. With 20-20 hindsight, the AT and PF probably built over several months with several kinds of activities, probably beginning in late winter or spring. I’m a field vegetation ecologist in Alaska, so during field season bumps and bruises and a little pain are the norm. To make a long story short, they caught my attention in a major way when I couldn’t tie my hiking boots because of the pain, and I could hardly stand to read my plots. Now that I know the symptoms and the consequences of ignoring them, I pay a lot more attention to pain in the foot area. Your symptoms don’t sound like mine, but if they persist, you would be wise to see a doctor, which sounds like you were planning on doing anyway. Severe PF is no fun. Good luck! BTW, something my orthopedist suggested when he was fitting me with orthotics is that a good exercise is to try lifting up your forefoot and toes while sitting, or even just resting them on a phone book while sitting (toes on book, heels on floor). His contention is that the normal amount of stretching that most people do isn’t really enough. By doing this even while sitting in an office, you can work on stretching the fascia. Something else he suggested I not do, is "toe presses" (not sure of their official name) that I was using to buildup calf muscles and I thought would also help the achilles tendon. Apparently that shortens the calf muscles, and what I really needed to be doing was lengthening the calf muscle or shortening the one on the shin (not sure of its name either). Dot I did some research but everything I read gave symptoms that were different for lots of people. Pain seemed to be in lots of different locations. One thing I couldn’t find was whether or not it would hurt to the touch, which it doesn’t. If anyone has had plantar fasciitis, would it hurt to touch and does it start overnight or is it a gradual thing?

Response:

I did some research but everything I read gave symptoms that were different for lots of people. Pain seemed to be in lots of different locations. One thing I couldn’t find was whether or not it would hurt to the touch, which it doesn’t. If anyone has had plantar fasciitis, would it hurt to touch and does it start overnight or is it a gradual thing? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be experiencing plantar fasciitis or something similar that also manifests itself as heel pain. If the heels feel at their worst upon first getting out of bed, the odds are higher that this is indeed what it is. Of course, it could also be from the shoes, or just a transient thing that may pass. Either way, I’d be careful and wait it out or see a doc. Im sure it’s nothing too bad – rest up and give is a few days rest before making any decisions. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – Would a beginner have a longer recovery rate than someone who’s been running longer? I did a 6K on Sun with no problems, no pain Mon or today but when I tried to run again tonight, I couldn’t even do 1/2 mile without very painful heels. It started with the first couple of steps. Never had pain here before. I wore new shoes for the race, had only worn them twice last week, but they felt pretty good. Is it possible to really need more than 48 hours to be able to run again or is this something I should check with my doctor?

Response:

Would a beginner have a longer recovery rate than someone who’s been running longer? I did a 6K on Sun with no problems, no pain Mon or today but when I tried to run again tonight, I couldn’t even do 1/2 mile without very painful heels. It started with the first couple of steps. Never had pain here before. I wore new shoes for the race, had only worn them twice last week, but they felt pretty good. Is it possible to really need more than 48 hours to be able to run again or is this something I should check with my doctor?

Response:

You may be experiencing plantar fasciitis or something similar that also manifests itself as heel pain. If the heels feel at their worst upon first getting out of bed, the odds are higher that this is indeed what it is. Of course, it could also be from the shoes, or just a transient thing that may pass. Either way, I’d be careful and wait it out or see a doc. Im sure it’s nothing too bad – rest up and give is a few days rest before making any decisions. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would a beginner have a longer recovery rate than someone who’s been running longer? I did a 6K on Sun with no problems, no pain Mon or today but when I tried to run again tonight, I couldn’t even do 1/2 mile without very painful heels. It started with the first couple of steps. Never had pain here before. I wore new shoes for the race, had only worn them twice last week, but they felt pretty good. Is it possible to really need more than 48 hours to be able to run again or is this something I should check with my doctor?

Response:

I had no pain first thing in the morning and no pain walking in my warmup. It started with the first steps of the run. Funny thing is that I had a followup appt with the orthopedist yesterday morning after my race Sun and had no pain at all, not even muscle soreness. He thought I was doing fine. I plan to call him tomorrow and see what he says. Thanks David. I’ll look up plantar fasciitis and check out the symptoms. By the way, the mapping software is great. I’ve been planning all kinds of routes. Much better than driving around town, writing down the mileage from the odometer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be experiencing plantar fasciitis or something similar that also manifests itself as heel pain. If the heels feel at their worst upon first getting out of bed, the odds are higher that this is indeed what it is. Of course, it could also be from the shoes, or just a transient thing that may pass. Either way, I’d be careful and wait it out or see a doc. Im sure it’s nothing too bad – rest up and give is a few days rest before making any decisions. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – Would a beginner have a longer recovery rate than someone who’s been running longer? I did a 6K on Sun with no problems, no pain Mon or today but when I tried to run again tonight, I couldn’t even do 1/2 mile without very painful heels. It started with the first couple of steps. Never had pain here before. I wore new shoes for the race, had only worn them twice last week, but they felt pretty good. Is it possible to really need more than 48 hours to be able to run again or is this something I should check with my doctor?

Response:

Question:

Because they don’t have access to a news server. I don’t know about other people, but I rely on my work connection for all internet access. (Luckily, I live 10 minutes from work). News is very bandwidth hungry from the server point of view, and a pain to administer. I’m guessing not many companies offer newsgroup access. We outsource our newsgroup access, but that took some convincing. Being a software development firm, we have some good reasons to have access to news. But with all of comp* you get alt* and other stuff that wiggs out the HR types. To answer the original post, we use Newsfeeds, and I use Outlook Express, which I’m not thrilled with. –stv

Why not just get a newsreader? There are several free ones around and they

are faster than doing web based reading and posting. Just curious as to why more people don’t do this. Netscape also has one built in. Chris I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has

taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Deja search capabilities have been crippled for quite a while now – seems like about a year.  I hope it gets better. I was using Deja last week to both post and search. Phil Larry I was only referring to the archives.  It has only been possible to search back a few months.  This started sometime last year.  I think the farthest you could go was to April 1999 or somewhere thereabouts.

Ah, I see what you mean. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Larry

Response:

The Deja search capabilities have been crippled for quite a while now – seems like about a year.  I hope it gets better. I was using Deja last week to both post and search. Phil Larry

I was only referring to the archives.  It has only been possible to search back a few months.  This started sometime last year.  I think the farthest you could go was to April 1999 or somewhere thereabouts. Larry

Response:

In the USA, most Internet services include mail and news.  NetZero and others can be had for free.  Otherwise it’s around $15 – $30 a month. The Deja search capabilities have been crippled for quite a while now – seems like about a year.  I hope it gets better.

I was using Deja last week to both post and search. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Larry But you need an account on a news server. Plus you can’t search deja for FAQs or technical problems anymore and can’t follow old threads. Google’s "beta" sucks. Phil I just use Netscape.   MS Explorer/Outlook works too. Larry I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost.

Response:

In the USA, most Internet services include mail and news.  NetZero and others can be had for free.  Otherwise it’s around $15 – $30 a month. The Deja search capabilities have been crippled for quite a while now – seems like about a year.  I hope it gets better. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you need an account on a news server. Plus you can’t search deja for FAQs or technical problems anymore and can’t follow old threads. Google’s "beta" sucks. Phil I just use Netscape.   MS Explorer/Outlook works too. Larry I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost.

Response:

I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost.

Response:

Why not just get a newsreader? There are several free ones around and they are faster than doing web based reading and posting. Just curious as to why more people don’t do this. Netscape also has one built in. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost.

Response:

I just use Netscape.   MS Explorer/Outlook works too. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost.

Response:

But you need an account on a news server. Plus you can’t search deja for FAQs or technical problems anymore and can’t follow old threads. Google’s "beta" sucks. Phil I just use Netscape.   MS Explorer/Outlook works too. Larry I used to use Deja to post to this usenet group, but since Google has

taken over I can not do it through Deja.  Where are people going to make posts.  Are there any good sites for searching the usenet groups ?  I used to search rec.sport.triathlon using Deja and now I am lost. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know the kind of times Lance Armstrong ran when he was a youth running road races? I knew Lance was a top HS triathlete, but I have also read that he ran in 10Ks & 5Ks as a youth, from fifth grade on to ??. Thanks, Steve

Response:

Don’t know what kind of times he ran, but I did read in the USA today that he was winning local 10K’s while still in middle school.  I would guess that would put in the mid 30’s. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know the kind of times Lance Armstrong ran when he was a youth running road races? I knew Lance was a top HS triathlete, but I have also read that he ran in 10Ks & 5Ks as a youth, from fifth grade on to ??. Thanks, Steve

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have any cool ideas that could be incorporated into a site like this?

Mike, I don’t want you stealing any of our ideas but you should check out our club site at www.semtc.org Race results are always nice. Accurate race calander on-line entry forms links of all kinds a CT point rank system TV schedule For Sale/Swap Etc, Etc. Don’t forget to link us too!!! S.

Response:

Hey, I’m an amateur web designer.  I was thinking about doing a page for Connecticut area Triathlon information.  A place to communicate with other people in Connecticut and find CT resources.  Would this be of interest to anyone?  I don’t want to design a site then have nobody come .  Does anyone have any cool ideas that could be incorporated into a site like this? Thanks for any input, –Mike Lasky

Response:

Question:

Thanks to everyone who responded to my problem.  I guess I had depressed the springy metal contact a bit much.  The watch now "beeps" just fine!

Response:

I’ll agree with the oter poster try removing and reinstalling the back. It seems the speaker/beeper is buil into the back of the watch.  If you reversed the cover when you reinstalled it the alarm will not work.  A quick hint would be to test things out by just holding the cover in place before reinstalling the screws. Good luck, Tom

: I hope someone here can help me.  My son wears a Timex Ironman : Triathlon watch.  The battery ran down, so I changed it — but now the : alarm won’t sound!  Does anybody have any idea what I can do to fix : this problem?  (The "beep on the hour" doesn’t work, either.)  Yes, : we’ve made sure the alarm symbol is showing.  (I’ve also tried having : the symbol off.  And I’ve tried having the "beep on the hour" symbol : on.  I’ve also made sure the alarm setting and time setting agree with : respect to A.M./P.M.) : Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. : Mary

Response:

try removing the cover and re-installing it. for some reason, most digital watches won’t beep if the cover is not on, or if it’s not put on properly. I hope someone here can help me.  My son wears a Timex Ironman Triathlon watch.  The battery ran down, so I changed it — but now the alarm won’t sound!  Does anybody have any idea what I can do to fix this problem?  (The "beep on the hour" doesn’t work, either.)  Yes,

The actual device which emits sound in most digital watches looks like a round disk glued to the inside of the cover. In the body of the watch is usually at least one and sometimes two tiny pieces of copper sticking up that make the proper electrical contact with this beeper when the back is properly installed. If the back is off, the watch will make no sounds but otherwise work correctly. If the back is on and the watch still makes no beeps, remove the back and try cleaning the inside of the back with a cotton swab and a little rubbing alcohol. Art

Response:

I screwed up my alarm the same way while removing a battery, but I know what I did wrong…I forced a metal clip that wasn’t supposed to be forced and ended up disconnecting the speaker.  The display indicates that everything is working fine but …’no sound’ !  It was an old one so I just bought a new watch. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I hope someone here can help me.  My son wears a Timex Ironman : Triathlon watch.  The battery ran down, so I changed it — but now the : alarm won’t sound!  Does anybody have any idea what I can do to fix : this problem?  (The "beep on the hour" doesn’t work, either.)  Yes, : we’ve made sure the alarm symbol is showing.  (I’ve also tried having : the symbol off.  And I’ve tried having the "beep on the hour" symbol : on.  I’ve also made sure the alarm setting and time setting agree with : respect to A.M./P.M.) There’s a small spring which contacts the piezoelectric element glued to the back of the watch – make sure that the back is on so that the spring contacts the piezo element.  The back being placed on upside down will make the beeper not work. –Ted. —

Response:

I would call Timex….800-448-4639.  They have been very helpful on my new watch that I bought.  Ben    -**** Posted from Supernews, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- http://www.supernews.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

Response:

: I hope someone here can help me.  My son wears a Timex Ironman : Triathlon watch.  The battery ran down, so I changed it — but now the : alarm won’t sound!  Does anybody have any idea what I can do to fix : this problem?  (The "beep on the hour" doesn’t work, either.)  Yes, : we’ve made sure the alarm symbol is showing.  (I’ve also tried having : the symbol off.  And I’ve tried having the "beep on the hour" symbol : on.  I’ve also made sure the alarm setting and time setting agree with : respect to A.M./P.M.) There’s a small spring which contacts the piezoelectric element glued to the back of the watch – make sure that the back is on so that the spring contacts the piezo element.  The back being placed on upside down will make the beeper not work. –Ted. —

Response:

I hope someone here can help me.  My son wears a Timex Ironman Triathlon watch.  The battery ran down, so I changed it — but now the alarm won’t sound!  Does anybody have any idea what I can do to fix this problem?  (The "beep on the hour" doesn’t work, either.)  Yes, we’ve made sure the alarm symbol is showing.  (I’ve also tried having the symbol off.  And I’ve tried having the "beep on the hour" symbol on.  I’ve also made sure the alarm setting and time setting agree with respect to A.M./P.M.) Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Mary

Response:

try removing the cover and re-installing it. for some reason, most digital watches won’t beep if the cover is not on, or if it’s not put on properly. — rich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope someone here can help me.  My son wears a Timex Ironman Triathlon watch.  The battery ran down, so I changed it — but now the alarm won’t sound!  Does anybody have any idea what I can do to fix this problem?  (The "beep on the hour" doesn’t work, either.)  Yes, we’ve made sure the alarm symbol is showing.  (I’ve also tried having the symbol off.  And I’ve tried having the "beep on the hour" symbol on.  I’ve also made sure the alarm setting and time setting agree with respect to A.M./P.M.) Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Mary

Response:

Question:

I guess if one cannot trust people to vote only once(after all this is not a presidential or prime ministerial race), can they be trusted not to draft in a draft free race???

As Reagan said, "Trust, but verify." We have Charlie Crawford to do the duty of your cookie in a real race. Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Not surprising to me.  That poll has no controls to prevent one person from voting several times.  Anybody who wanted to tilt the scales could just go in there and vote over and over again.  Knowing the attitude of a few people who are anti-draft, I wouldn’t put such a thing past them. I wouldn’t take the "results" of such a poll too seriously "Life’s a brick" "Drafting is not a four-letter word" I have been running a drafting or not poll on the Runner’s Web for several weeks and the results to-date are surprising, at least to me, given the rhetoric on RST. Out of 388 respondents)  these are the results as of Friday AM: 43%   No 41%   Yes 12%   For pros only 3%   Does not matter. This poll will close at the end of May so if you wish to express your vote, do so soon. The Runner’s Web Voting Booth can be accessed from our main menu at www.runnersweb.com/running.html. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Thanks for the follow-ups. The poll has been moved to a site which through the use of cookies prevents multiple voting. Time will tell if this changes the percentages. I guess if one cannot trust people to vote only once(after all this is not a presidential or prime ministerial race), can they be trusted not to draft in a draft free race??? Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Response:

Not surprising to me.  That poll has no controls to prevent one person from voting several times.  Anybody who wanted to tilt the scales could just go in there and vote over and over again.  Knowing the attitude of a few people who are pro-draft, I wouldn’t put such a thing past them.   I wouldn’t take the "results" of such a poll too seriously.

Indeed. Self-selection is the worst evil that can be perpetrated by poll-takers. It’s a guaranteed rejection in any scientific review. Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

Response:

Not surprising to me.  That poll has no controls to prevent one person from voting several times.  Anybody who wanted to tilt the scales could just go in there and vote over and over again.  Knowing the attitude of a few people who are anti-draft, I wouldn’t put such a thing past them. I wouldn’t take the "results" of such a poll too seriously "Life’s a brick" "Drafting is not a four-letter word"

Touche, and equally true.  At any rate, we agree that this lack of control renders the "results" of this poll meaningless. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Not surprising to me.  That poll has no controls to prevent one person from voting several times.  Anybody who wanted to tilt the scales could just go in there and vote over and over again.  Knowing the attitude of a few people who are anti-draft, I wouldn’t put such a thing past them. I wouldn’t take the "results" of such a poll too seriously "Life’s a brick" "Drafting is not a four-letter word" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running a drafting or not poll on the Runner’s Web for several weeks and the results to-date are surprising, at least to me, given the rhetoric on RST. Out of 388 respondents)  these are the results as of Friday AM: 43%   No 41%   Yes 12%   For pros only 3%   Does not matter. This poll will close at the end of May so if you wish to express your vote, do so soon. The Runner’s Web Voting Booth can be accessed from our main menu at www.runnersweb.com/running.html. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken,  Curious to know if you can track the number of times a voter  votes?  Of the 388 responses, how many different submitters  actually voted? -Richd : Out of 388 respondents)  these are the results as of Friday AM: :  43%   No :  41%   Yes :  12%   For pros only :  3%   Does not matter. : The Runner’s Web Voting Booth can be accessed from our main menu at : www.runnersweb.com/running.html.

 The 41% yes for drafting seems inordinately high for RST. Hmmm… Chaz

Response:

…  Curious to know if you can track the number of times a voter  votes?  Of the 388 responses, how many different submitters  actually voted?

Nope – no tracking or duplicate prevention. ;=)   Easily done with a cookie, though. Tom

Response:

I have been running a drafting or not poll on the Runner’s Web for several weeks and the results to-date are surprising, at least to me, given the rhetoric on RST. Out of 388 respondents)  these are the results as of Friday AM:  43%   No  41%   Yes  12%   For pros only  3%   Does not matter. This poll will close at the end of May so if you wish to express your vote, do so soon. The Runner’s Web Voting Booth can be accessed from our main menu at www.runnersweb.com/running.html. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Response:

 Ken,   Curious to know if you can track the number of times a voter   votes?  Of the 388 responses, how many different submitters   actually voted? -Richd : Out of 388 respondents)  these are the results as of Friday AM: :  43%   No :  41%   Yes :  12%   For pros only :  3%   Does not matter. : The Runner’s Web Voting Booth can be accessed from our main menu at : www.runnersweb.com/running.html. —

Response:

I have been running a drafting or not poll on the Runner’s Web for several weeks and the results to-date are surprising, at least to me, given the rhetoric on RST. Out of 388 respondents)  these are the results as of Friday AM:  43%   No  41%   Yes  12%   For pros only  3%   Does not matter.

Not surprising to me.  That poll has no controls to prevent one person from voting several times.  Anybody who wanted to tilt the scales could just go in there and vote over and over again.  Knowing the attitude of a few people who are pro-draft, I wouldn’t put such a thing past them.   I wouldn’t take the "results" of such a poll too seriously. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.  <snip What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? I had not experienced any problem with my teeth until Vineman last Saturday.  When I went out to eat afterwards I had extreme sensitivity. I use a prescription flouride gel for sensitivity, and have been brushing regularly, so the condition is improving, but after 4 days it is still noticeable. I had not had a cavity in 12 years, but upon a check-up two weeks ago, one was discovered.  I think Rolf brings up a good point.  I think carrying a tooth brush is a great idea. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

Todd, I did the Full-Vineman last week, and after 112 miles on that rough surface,  I felt like my teeth practically rattled out of my mouth. But seriously, if you  have a tendency to clench your teeth when you ride, the occlusal trauma may be enough to cause sensitivity in your teeth and/or muscle tightness in your TMJ.  That course is conducive to clenching for sure.  I found my self doing it on some of the rough descents.  It is doubtful that nutrition in 1 race will stimulate this problem, however, I found that Raceday product they were serving up to be rather acidic.  If you have root exposure from periodontal problems, or from over-zealous brushing, that drink could definitely stimulate root sensitivity. So strap that brush in with your sew-up ! Gregg Trent DDS

Response:

i had the exact same thing happen to me a few years back…all those simple sugars gooked onto your teeth is bad news…. it was also attributed to the fact that I was getting up at 3am and eating cuz i was so hungry it woke me up, and then of course went back to bed without brushing…

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OK, so the subject may be an oxymoron.  And it may seem like a joke.  It is not.   Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.   I had several cavities in 1995, after having had none for years.  I attribute it to the sugary diet for training and doing IMC 1994 and 1995.   During training this year, I have carried a toothbrush and brush my teeth IMMEDIATELY upon finishing.  I plan to give my teeth a quick brushing between the bike and run, and also upon finishing the event as well.   What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? Any dentists out there have suggestions as well? -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                        … I tri …                                         … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

After years of perfect check-ups I have been plagued with dental problems for the past 6 years.  This is my 9th season as a triathlete but I didn’t start using sports drinks till about 6 years ago. Coincidence? Hmmm…wonder if the makers of sports drinks and gels can start adding flouride to their products?!? -hug

Response:

Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.  <snip What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth?

I had not experienced any problem with my teeth until Vineman last Saturday.  When I went out to eat afterwards I had extreme sensitivity. I use a prescription flouride gel for sensitivity, and have been brushing regularly, so the condition is improving, but after 4 days it is still noticeable. I had not had a cavity in 12 years, but upon a check-up two weeks ago, one was discovered.  I think Rolf brings up a good point.  I think carrying a tooth brush is a great idea. Todd Kearney Swim, Bike, Run

Response:

Rolf, speaking of Ironman nutrition, you still haven’t revealed the name of the additional digestive enzyme that you employ during an IM aside from good old Beano.  Oh, and when I reported using Beano on a long ride recently, a lot of folks pricked up their ears ’cause they’d never heard of doing that before.  Can you expound further to the group once more on your general IM nutritional plan? Congrats on that fantastic 500-miler!  Whooooweeee! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so the subject may be an oxymoron.  And it may seem like a joke.  It is not. Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items. I had several cavities in 1995, after having had none for years.  I attribute it to the sugary diet for training and doing IMC 1994 and 1995. During training this year, I have carried a toothbrush and brush my teeth IMMEDIATELY upon finishing.  I plan to give my teeth a quick brushing between the bike and run, and also upon finishing the event as well. What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? Any dentists out there have suggestions as well? -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                         … I tri …                                          … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

Being a Dentist, race sponsor and competitive age-grouper for the last 10 years, I have acquired many triathletes as patients and I have found that several have developed decay on a regular basis.  You realize, that bathing your teeth with a constant source of simple sugars during training rides and races, provide a constant source for your bacterial flora in the mouth to produce acids.  The constant acidic environment subjects your teeth to an increase in decay rate.  What I recommend, is to brush your teeth immediately after training when you are drinking the electrolyte replacement drink, eating gels, etc… It is not the quantity of sugar that is the problem, rather the consistent, repetitious consumption throughout the day.  The bacteria will produce acids that take 1-2 hours to neutralize  back to normal levels. Therefore if you are drinking constant throughout the day, the acid level will be higher than the average individual that eats 3 meals a day with a snack or two and drinks plain water. So take a brush with you if you want, or brush right after exercising. I have trained for many Ironmans, and find it necessary to consume the electrolyte/carbo replacement drinks in high levels. I just compensate by brushing 2-4 times more each day. If you still have a decay problem, topical fluorides in prescription strength are available, and will help strengthen the enamel and root surfaces of your teeth.  But mechanical brushing and flossing to remove the source of sugars for the bacteria to produce harmful acids is the key. Gregg Trent DDS

Response:

Ironman nutrition and dental health?

Same story.  I never had cavity #1 until late 20’s.  This past Saturday, i sat through 3 cavity fillings.  Not a good feeling when you race the next day with a jumbo headache!  i may take  your toothbrush advice. thanx.   -Eric E.

Response:

Ironman nutrition and dental health? Hi everybody ! This is really a very serious matter I had planned to discuss with the group this year. For being a dentsit myself and active triathlete I gained some experience with this subject during my IM prep this year. A number of points are of interest: 1) consumption of large amounts of carbohydrates are dangerous for oral health 2) dryness of mouth because of lack of hydration/ salivation / breathing trough the open mouth makes things worse 3) intensive mouth care during an IM or half IM prep is strongly recommended Normally, the saliva carries away large amounts of carbohydrates before they can be consumed by microorganisms. During training, this effect is lost. Most bars and gels are kind of sticky and stay glued on the teeth over a longer period. The germs can consume large quantities and metabolise them into acid that eats away your teeth. Also the germs can proliferate very rapidly because of excellent nutrition, which doesn`t make things better. Result: The teeth can get rapidly decalcified, cavities can appear in a very short amount of time, because there are MANY germs, MANY carbohydrates and VERY LITTLE saliva to carry away carbos and to remineralize the teeth. What can you do ? 1) have your teeth checked regularly (best every 3 months).Small cavities can grow rapidly under training conditions.Have your dentist to make X-rays of the teeth to look for very small cvities, that are hard to detect in a regular check 2) have your teeth professionally cleaned 1 time pre-season and 1 time mid-season 3) ask your dentist for and individual training in mouthcare (VERY important) 4)use fluids containing fluoride to remineralize teeth properly and make them 10 times more resistant against acids 5) care for intensive cleaning of the interdental spaces with special brushes or dental floss 6) try to rinse your mouth with water after consumption of carbos in training and spit it out. This will carry away some of the carbos glued to the teeth. If there are special questions I will try to answer then the best I can.(Yes, this is an offer for a FREE professional consultation) Hope this helps Hannes

Response:

OK, so the subject may be an oxymoron.  And it may seem like a joke.  It is not.   Taking all sorts of sugary gels, drinks, energy bars, etc., is rather rough on the teeth.  I am sure other people have that … unpleasant … sensation in their mouths after consuming all of these items.   I had several cavities in 1995, after having had none for years.  I attribute it to the sugary diet for training and doing IMC 1994 and 1995.   During training this year, I have carried a toothbrush and brush my teeth IMMEDIATELY upon finishing.  I plan to give my teeth a quick brushing between the bike and run, and also upon finishing the event as well.   What do other people do?  Has anyone else had this trouble, or am I one of the unfortunate ones with non-Iron-teeth? Any dentists out there have suggestions as well? -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                         … I tri …                                          … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

Response:

Question:

I was contemplating using a Camel back for hydration at Wildflower instead of bottles. How much of an effect will this have on aerodynamics, taking into account that I will not have bottles on my bike? I feel that using one of these aids dramatically in hydration. Any thoughts, or am I splitting hairs?

Response:

I was contemplating using a Camel back for hydration at Wildflower instead of bottles. How much of an effect will this have on aerodynamics, taking into account that I will not have bottles on my bike? I feel that using one of these aids dramatically in hydration. Any thoughts, or am I splitting hairs?

I’d liken it to splitting one of Mike Pigg’s hairs!! I recently bought a Camelbak type system for mtbing and have also been using it on road rides.  Its not much more convenient than bottles, but it certainly holds more.  I would think that for a long course tri where you may be concerned with the type of drink or its concentration that a drinking system would be perfect.   However, for a hilly course (isn’t Wildflower?) you may not want the extra weight sloshing around on your back while you’re climbing out of the saddle. — Stacy J. Hills

Response:

Hey buddy, I just did a critique on a study conducted by some researchers on a time trial effort while wearing a Camelbak, and the conclusion was that wearing one significantly reduced HR, Perceived Exertion, rectal temperature (argh!!! I’d hate to be those poor guys)…it short, it meant that wearing one (the IceBak version which is not insulated on the side that lays against the skin) can signifcantly reduce your core temperature and HR while at the same exertion level.  It’s not a huge study, but it didn’t have any flaws in it that would significantly affect the results. It’s in Cycling Science’s Fall 1995 issue if you’re interested. See ya at Wildflower. Speed is Life, Dave Chen Captain Arizona State University Triathlon Team www.asu.edu/studentprgms/org/sd_triath – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was contemplating using a Camel back for hydration at Wildflower instead of bottles. How much of an effect will this have on aerodynamics, taking into account that I will not have bottles on my bike? I feel that using one of these aids dramatically in hydration. Any thoughts, or am I splitting hairs?

Response:

I’ve preridden the Wildflower course twice, both times with my Camelbak MULE. It’s the only way to go on a long, hot, hilly course like Wildflower.

Response: