Question:

steve…@webtv.net (steve) wrote in message

<news:9e4b5329.0402110302.24768183@posting.google.com>… > Well the short guy got terminated! They showed him on his date and > he said somthing like why have you kept me around so long?? and > she said somthing about him being open and nice.  When she chose > 4 guys to terminate she said somthing about him saying he was a > prince and wonderful guy but she still called his name and he was > gone.  Now he was nice about and very grateful that she terminated > over a dozen guys before him, he was grateful like a puppy, "hey > the babe kept me around longer than I thought she would, what a > princess!"

If a guy has any brains at all, he’d be thinking of all the girls watching the TV show and how he’s likely to be recognized by some of them in the coming months. Coming off as an angry jerk while on screen (even if that’s what he is, and I’d guess that he isn’t) isn’t worth losing a chance with all these other girls. Frankly, it seems so obvious to me that I wonder if the makers of these shows specifically ask that some of the guys display a bit of resentment. I’m especially thinking of all those "elimin-a-date" type of shows where an eliminated guy or girl is shown saying all sorts of disparaging remarks after being eliminated. Virgo Cluster   "[12 Ways to Achieve Sainthood] (#4) St. Apollonia is the patron    saint of dentists. She achieved martyrdom after running into a    mob of Egyptians, who pulled her teeth out one by one because    she refused to renounce her faith." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 290 >>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -newmediapr…@yahoo.com (KC Carter) wrote in message <news:463ac52.0402081741.6f89637d@posting.google.com>… > gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in message <news:dd95baf2.0402071051.442254f4@posting.google.com>… > > "ThatShortGuy" <jw…@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message > > <news:26a3980ddcc2a77c1f92f0cb930e656f@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>… > > > They just started showing this show here called > > > Average Joe(I suppose it has finished in the US) > > > where they put 16 so called geeks together each > > > trying to win the heart of a beautifl women. > > > Anyway one of the 16 geeks,I think his name > > > is Mark, a software engineer manager, is 5′4". > > > Already he has started taking some flak from > > > taller men. One guy sounded quite proud about > > > picking on him. The fact that Mark is very skinny > > > and has a puny build, and is going bald doesn’t > > > help his cause, however i wonder if the taller > > > men would pick on him if he was 5′9". > > I don’t watch TV (not subscribing to cable takes away > > the temptation), but a month ago I drove across the > > country to get some things out of storage to bring > > to where I now live, and I had the opportunity of seeing > > one of these episodes on a hotel room’s TV. Maybe this > > is a reflection of how far down the male alpha-beta-gamma > > hierarchy I am, but I didn’t think those guys were all > > that geeky and/or bad looking. Well, there were one or two > > who could stand to lose some weight and one or two who > > were somewhat nerdy looking, but even those wouldn’t be > > in the lowest 20% of guys over 30 I see whenever I’m in > > public, at least not around where I live. > Because if they were too nerdy, then viewers wouldn’t worry about > being labeled average themselves, and not buy the advertised products. > The show needs to create fear to compel consumption. > KC

Well the short guy got terminated! They showed him on his date and he said somthing like why have you kept me around so long?? and  she said somthing about him being open and nice.  When she chose 4 guys to terminate she said somthing about him saying he was a prince and wonderful guy but she still called his name and he was gone.  Now he was nice about and very grateful that she terminated over a dozen guys before him, he was grateful like a puppy, "hey the babe kept me around longer than I thought she would, what a princess!"

Response:

"ThatShortGuy" <jw…@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message

<news:26a3980ddcc2a77c1f92f0cb930e656f@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>… > They just started showing this show here called > Average Joe(I suppose it has finished in the US) > where they put 16 so called geeks together each > trying to win the heart of a beautifl women. > Anyway one of the 16 geeks,I think his name > is Mark, a software engineer manager, is 5′4". > Already he has started taking some flak from > taller men. One guy sounded quite proud about > picking on him. The fact that Mark is very skinny > and has a puny build, and is going bald doesn’t > help his cause, however i wonder if the taller > men would pick on him if he was 5′9".

I don’t watch TV (not subscribing to cable takes away the temptation), but a month ago I drove across the country to get some things out of storage to bring to where I now live, and I had the opportunity of seeing one of these episodes on a hotel room’s TV. Maybe this is a reflection of how far down the male alpha-beta-gamma hierarchy I am, but I didn’t think those guys were all that geeky and/or bad looking. Well, there were one or two who could stand to lose some weight and one or two who were somewhat nerdy looking, but even those wouldn’t be in the lowest 20% of guys over 30 I see whenever I’m in public, at least not around where I live. Plus, most of them seemed to have fairly decent jobs — they weren’t high school drop-outs making minimum wage at a fast food restaurant. Then again, the title is _Average_ Joe, not _Total_Loser_ Joe. Anyway, I was thinking that most of them would be fairly decent looking if they’d bother to work out some. The thing I noticed the most was the absence of any evidence that they’re putting forth any real effort towards being in good physical shape. I’m not talking about 30 minutes three or four times a week, but neither am I talking about five hours a day triathlon training. I’d bet 90 minutes a day would be plenty to make a significant difference in their appearance. But I guess it’s easier to not put forth the effort and rant about those who do. Unfortunately, height isn’t something that even five hours a day triathlon training can change, so I’m not really talking about the 5′4" guy but about the others. Virgo Cluster   "[10 People Who Hated Shakespeare] (#8) Elizabeth Forsyth,    English writer: "A sycophant, a flatterer, a breaker of    marriage vows, a whining and inconsistent person." " << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 452 >>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in message <news:dd95baf2.0402071051.442254f4@posting.google.com>… > "ThatShortGuy" <jw…@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message > <news:26a3980ddcc2a77c1f92f0cb930e656f@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>… > > They just started showing this show here called > > Average Joe(I suppose it has finished in the US) > > where they put 16 so called geeks together each > > trying to win the heart of a beautifl women. > > Anyway one of the 16 geeks,I think his name > > is Mark, a software engineer manager, is 5′4". > > Already he has started taking some flak from > > taller men. One guy sounded quite proud about > > picking on him. The fact that Mark is very skinny > > and has a puny build, and is going bald doesn’t > > help his cause, however i wonder if the taller > > men would pick on him if he was 5′9". > I don’t watch TV (not subscribing to cable takes away > the temptation), but a month ago I drove across the > country to get some things out of storage to bring > to where I now live, and I had the opportunity of seeing > one of these episodes on a hotel room’s TV. Maybe this > is a reflection of how far down the male alpha-beta-gamma > hierarchy I am, but I didn’t think those guys were all > that geeky and/or bad looking. Well, there were one or two > who could stand to lose some weight and one or two who > were somewhat nerdy looking, but even those wouldn’t be > in the lowest 20% of guys over 30 I see whenever I’m in > public, at least not around where I live.

Because if they were too nerdy, then viewers wouldn’t worry about being labeled average themselves, and not buy the advertised products. The show needs to create fear to compel consumption. KC

Response:

Question:

I’m going to be in south Jersey in early June, Does anyone Know of any Triathlons around there?  Bob S.

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Here’s what I have Sunday June 4, 2000 Cape May County: Cape May Triathlon & Biathlon Triathlon: Swim 4/10 mile, Bike 15 miles, Run 2.7 miles Biathlon: Run 2.7 miles, Bike 15 miles, Run 2.7 miles Location: Bellplain State Forest web site: http://www.triath.com for more New Jersey Triathlons go to: http://www.TriFind.com/nj.html for a National Triathlon Calendar go to: http://www.TriFind.com Good Luck Stephen Adams Looking for a Triathlon? http://www.TriFind.com

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I’m going to be in south Jersey in early June, Does anyone Know of any Triathlons around there? Bob S.

June 10 – Thundergust Triathlon in Parvin State Park in Pittsgrove, NJ (near Vineland). Distances are 0.5mi. swim, 16 mile bike, 4 mile run. Swim is in smooth lake, ride is on undulating course around the Park, run is on trails around the lake. Great little triathlon. Applications are on http://www.lin-mark.com .                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Question:

Hi,     This is probably a matter of personal preference. I notice the IM Elite full is about $100 more that the QR full. Is it really that much better. Has anyone tried both? Seems like both are the most popular brand. I dont mind spending a few extra dollars if I have to, in order to get the features that best suit me. In this case I am not sure it is necessary. Thanks Charlie

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I personally own an IM Elite.  From what I see, IM is a lot stronger than QR.  I don’t handle my IM very carefully when pulling it on (I just grab the leg piece with my long nails and pull) and so far, 1 year, have not one single tear.  Up to now, I have however not seen a single one year old QR without tears (be it small).

Response:

Charlie: Our Elite Fullsuit is priced the same as the QR Hydrophobic Fullsuit. The suggested retail price on both suits is $325. (QR offers a fullsuit made out of Standard rubber for $75 less) We chose not to offer a fullsuit made out from Standard rubber due to the lack of flexibility. When you compare apples to apples the price on the two fullsuits are identical. We offer a two week test trial period on all of our wetsuits. This guarantee allows you decide which is better. Thanks- Keith — Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits Website: www.ironmanwetsuits.com toll free order line: 800-897-6464 international calls: 804-288-6000

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     This is probably a matter of personal preference. I notice the IM Elite full is about $100 more that the QR full. Is it really that much better. Has anyone tried both? Seems like both are the most popular brand. I dont mind spending a few extra dollars if I have to, in order to get the features that best suit me. In this case I am not sure it is necessary. Thanks Charlie

Response:

Question:

I heading down from rainy Portland with several Nike Team Endorphin members for My first ever Tri ( hell of an intro HUH).  I hope all those miles in the rain are worth something.  I’ll be the one on a flourescent orange Softride can’t miss me.  Thanks to everyone for all the tips on RST to get me to Wildflower!!!!!! Kendall Shapiro – Tri Virgin

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Tricia, Add me to the list of "people who know what  the long course is really like, but signed up anyway"  At least this year I have a pretty good start on the training, but Wildflower has a habit of humbling all of us (at least it has set me back in my thinking about how good of condition I’m in for the last three years).  First time for the long course for me but, hey, after doing IMC ‘98, how hard can Wildflower be? We’ll know in about 4 weeks!! John Hall All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere

three-and-a-half weeks off, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                     _                                  -    o     ‘             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/   /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

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Mark Rinaldi (Long Course) I am bringing 22 of my Inland Inferno teammates with me. Just hope it isn’t as windy as it was last weekend up there. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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I’m going ! Racing Saturday, Head Ref on Sunday. Hey Larry, are you one of my newbies?  Welcome ! We are VERY glad to have you ! Congratulations for stepping into the arena of Service to Your Sport ! Lynne

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I’m heading down to check out the Water Temp and will report back, this weekend. Anyone else going this weekend? Our Carmel Valley Tri Club goes every year just prior. Lynne

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<< I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing? <<TriBaby Princess Carla and I are both going long again this year.  We rode the course on 4/3 and it was freezing cold and windy as hell.  Lets hope for better weather on race day Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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Yes, Lynne, I’m one of your newbies.  I’m looking forward to seeing the sport from a different angle and meeting some new folks as well.  It looks like an exciting weekend.  See you in a few weeks. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going ! Racing Saturday, Head Ref on Sunday. Hey Larry, are you one of my newbies?  Welcome ! We are VERY glad to have you ! Congratulations for stepping into the arena of Service to Your Sport ! Lynne

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We’ve got about 28 or 30 coming down from Sonoma Mountain Triathletes. See you all there – look for our banner and come say hi! Doug Kraus Tri-turtle (yes, I’m still alive) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere three-and-a-half weeks off, I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

Response:

All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere three-and-a-half weeks off, I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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Gordo Byrn – Long Course (wife Angela backin’ me up) Coming all the way from Hong Kong!

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Olympic — Paul MacKenzie from Benicia, CA 1/2  – Lynne MacKenzie – same place

Response:

Chuck  "The Lurker" Willen is doing the Long course.  I hope to meet everyone there.

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Put me down for racing the long course and doing my first USAT gig at the short course. Larry

All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere three-and-a-half weeks off, I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

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Hi all, See y’all there, working the race on Saturday, racing on Sunday. Monday? Hmmmmm… Kathy *I’m a woman of action.*

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Add to that: Meika SIlva Matt Pope (We’re both doing the Olympic) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere three-and-a-half weeks off, I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                     _                                  -    o     ‘             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/   /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

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Emilio De Soto.  After proving myself against the youngsters on the Olympic course last year (3rd overall) I am doing the long course this year again. Mark Montgomery and I have a case of imports on the race.  We have been racing this race now for about 10-12 years?  I don’t know I lost count. Will there be a meeting of RSTers?  Let us know! Emilio Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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I’ll be doing the long course for my second time.  Hope to see everybody! Everitt Chock

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Randy Lexvold – Long course and I’ve pulled my girlfriend and roommate into the tri-fold, they’re going to be doing the MTB course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere three-and-a-half weeks off, I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                     _                                  -    o     ‘             –  __o       –    </_ `     ‘         –    <         – __/   /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html

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I’ll be coming up from Orange County to do the Olympic course. Ron Urman

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I’ll be there. I’m signed up for the Olympic. -Gail DeCamp

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Racing both days–MTB Saturday, Olympic distance Sunday.  (Last year I heard there are a few crazies who, not finding the half-Ironman challenging enough , race the half-IM Saturday, then the Olympic distance Sunday.  Anyone on RST willing to admit to doing that?) –Steve Gregg

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the UCSB Gauchos will be there, olympic of course… we will try and keep the noise to a minimum on friday night see ya there Scott, UCSB triathlon

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Steve, One year 1992 I did an olympic on saturday in Los Angeles and the long course on Sunday.  They actually used to have it on Sunday.  Finished 10 th overall! Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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Man Emilio, you are an animal!  I can’t wait to meet the man, the myth, the legend at Wildflower this year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve, One year 1992 I did an olympic on saturday in Los Angeles and the long course on Sunday.  They actually used to have it on Sunday.  Finished 10 th overall! Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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Fred Huxham – long course (my first attempt at a 1/2 ironman) Heading down from Ross, Ca (Marin County) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All right, now that Judgement Day is a mere three-and-a-half weeks off, I reckon it’s about time to start takin’ names. Who’s goin?  Which race are you planning on doing?  Post or email and I’ll track the list.  I’ll start with: TriBaby Joe "Studmuffin" Foster John Welch Ron Renwick Wade & Cathy Blomgren — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

Question:

Like a person in another thread going here, I am in the market for some type of trainer, and am considering the pros and cons of rollers and "clamp on" resistance trainers. Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? or is it too hard to balance?  - can one get an effective workout without being too concerned about tipping over? Or is balance and spin the only real benefits of a roller versus a standard trainer?  - are rollers fairly quiet? (I live in an apartment) Comments, good brand names, etc. would be appreciated. thanks, -liu

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like a person in another thread going here, I am in the market for some type of trainer, and am considering the pros and cons of rollers and "clamp on" resistance trainers. Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? or is it too hard to balance?  - can one get an effective workout without being too concerned about tipping over? Or is balance and spin the only real benefits of a roller versus a standard trainer?  - are rollers fairly quiet? (I live in an apartment) Comments, good brand names, etc. would be appreciated. thanks, -liu

As mentioned earlier I use rollers after having used a trainer first. The pros are numerous, for me big one is the fact that there is no stress on the frame. They will also improve your bike handling and yes I am able to ride them using my aerobars, but it took me a while to get there. I think I can get a better workout than on a trainer. I have attached two fans for resistance to my rollers. They make a little noise. You can also attach magnetic resistance though, which would reduce the noise. By lowering the tire pressure you can increase stability and resistance also. One tip for beginners is to put them through a door so that if you tip over you lean against the door frame. — Achim Wilfried Heinle

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like a person in another thread going here, I am in the market for some type of trainer, and am considering the pros and cons of rollers and "clamp on" resistance trainers. Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? or is it too hard to balance?  - can one get an effective workout without being too concerned about tipping over? Or is balance and spin the only real benefits of a roller versus a standard trainer?  - are rollers fairly quiet? (I live in an apartment) Comments, good brand names, etc. would be appreciated. thanks, -liu

I rigged up a system to connect my rollers to my wind trainer. Used a 700 c inner tube to connect the middle rear drum to the fan of the trainer. Adds resistance for the rollers, and I didn’t have to spend the extra on a mag unit. Rollers definitely more interesting than a trainer. With practice, you can ride on the aerobars and with no hands.

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I agree with Achim.  My reply would have been identical except that I only use one fan for resistence. Brian

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I’ve got a set of rollers, with adjustable  mag resistence.  I like them, but I would occasionally ride off the side, so I put them next to a sturdy shelf to catch myself.  I found that I couldn’t get quite the workout I wanted because I couldn’t peddle standing up without going off, so I ordered a Krietler fork stand, which straddles the rollers.  Now I can switch back and forth between pure rollers and a fixed-front trainer so I can stand and peddle, or use the areobars (or watch TV!).  It’s a great setup for me, the best of both worlds. Rusty Southwood CMRA#342 "If you never crash, you ain’t tryin’ hard enough!"

Response:

Like a person in another thread going here, I am in the market for some type of trainer, and am considering the pros and cons of rollers and "clamp on" resistance trainers. Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? or is it too hard to balance?  - can one get an effective workout without being too concerned about tipping over?

Practice…practice…practice…go to the aerobars only when you are really steady and confident. Does the term "carpet sprint" bring a picture to mind?  Or is balance and spin the only real benefits of a roller versus a standard trainer?  - are rollers fairly quiet? (I live in an apartment)

For apt. dwellers, stay away from fan units (rollers or trainers) and stay with mag or fluid units to keep your neighbors happy. Cheers, Andrew Comments, good brand names, etc. would be appreciated. thanks, -liu

– Andrew Peabody Miami

Response:

Rollers are great. Krietlers are by far the best, but expensive. Two options one should consider are the Killer Headwind (for resistance and cooling) and the front stand unit in case you don’t feel like balancing. They are relatively quiet but the vibrations due to the rollers spinning can cause some noise below the unit. As far as aero position goes, my personal best is about 15-20 minutes before the mental strain of balancing that long gets to be too much. Even though it’s been about three years since I’ve religously ridden my rollers in aero position the training served well at Ironman because I had little trouble managing the winds and staying aero. Cheers. Jeb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like a person in another thread going here, I am in the market for some type of trainer, and am considering the pros and cons of rollers and "clamp on" resistance trainers. Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? or is it too hard to balance?  - can one get an effective workout without being too concerned about tipping over? Or is balance and spin the only real benefits of a roller versus a standard trainer?  - are rollers fairly quiet? (I live in an apartment) Comments, good brand names, etc. would be appreciated. thanks, -liu

– Real triathletes don’t draft or wear wetsuits! "A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through" -Hunter/Lesh

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Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? you’re not serious-are you?? P

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I agree with Achim.  My reply would have been identical except that I only use one fan for resistence. Brian

Sometimes I disconnect one or both fans if I want to work more on my spinning. With the two fans I is quite hard. I can’t even use the big chainring. — Achim Wilfried Heinle

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My $0.02 is…. I’ve set up my bike (on an Minoura Magnetic Trainer) for the winter and the first thing I did was to remove the aero bars. My present thinking: I think that, if you want to get good at the bike, you should train like a cyclist. A cyclist would not be riding in the aero position this early in the year… but would save it for a more event-specific time of the year… like April or May. There’s plenty of improvements you can make in your cycling on the indoor trainers but an efficient aero-position is not one of them… how can you with no feedback? I would be worried about practising bad habits… At this time of the year, I want to maintain a *pure* cycling geometry and thereby exercise only cycling muscles on the bike… running muscles I can exercise on the run… and it’s much too early for bricks.. Anyway… as I mentioned, it’s just my $0.02 and YMMV… Regards, Kevin Mitchell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like a person in another thread going here, I am in the market for some type of trainer, and am considering the pros and cons of rollers and "clamp on" resistance trainers. Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? or is it too hard to balance?      - can one get an effective workout without being too concerned about tipping over? Or is balance and spin the only real benefits of a roller versus a standard trainer?  - are rollers fairly quiet? (I live in an apartment) Comments, good brand names, etc. would be appreciated. thanks, -liu

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Questions:  - can one use the aero position to train on rollers? you’re not serious-are you?? P

I like to practice wheelies on my rollers, while opening a powerbar;-) D.J.          "how do you fix holes in walls?"  (IRONKID)

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I think that, if you want to get good at the bike, you should train like a cyclist.

Makes sense to me… A cyclist would not be riding in the aero position this early in the year… but would save it for a more event-specific time of the year… like April or May.

I agree that it makes sense to get more specific as the important races come closer. However, the offseason is a good time to experiment, and there’s not much sense in having to completely reaccomodate to the aero position all over again come spring. In fact, when I asked Colby Pearce how often he rode in his extreme aero position, he said that he did it mostly in the off-season, on a trainer, since that is when he had the most time to work on it. In-season, he said he generally rode in the position only during races. There’s plenty of improvements you can make in your cycling on the indoor trainers but an efficient aero-position is not one of them… how can you with no feedback? I would be worried about practising bad habits…

My experience is that even w/ a flat road, speedometer, and HRM, it isn’t possible to reliably detect, say, the effect of raising or lowering your head, or arching or flattening your back. That is, once the position of the seat and bars are set, the effect of everything else is much too subtle to measure w/ such instruments. OTOH, by using the aerobars on the trainer along w/ a mirror you at least get some visual feedback that may be useful.   At this time of the year, I want to maintain a *pure* cycling geometry and thereby exercise only cycling muscles on the bike… running muscles I can exercise on the run… and it’s much too early for bricks..

Since by definition a triathlete is not a specialist, I can see how there might be less need for year-round specialized training in any of the three sports. However, I still think there is some benefit to using the off-season to perfect one’s position on the bike.

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I just got my November issue of IT and noticed the new glossy paper. Very nice.  I think it sure beats the old newspaper feel.  I’m glad to see such a great publication has increased it’s quality. Don Van Wie

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Ya I noticed the paper also.  Nice look and feel.  Hope they keep up the good work.

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Hello to all..   Just a quick note to see if anyone is doing the Fairlee great triathlon in Fairlee VT!?!?!?  this will be my third time racing it and let me tell ya, its a challenging course for the distance (.75 miles/24miles/5miles).  If your going and interested in what to expect, the swim is usualy nice in Lake Morey which should be in the 75degree range and calm.  The bike portion is tough with 3 good climbs.  One of the climbs at about mile 13 is a leg burner to say the least but the others arent so bad.  The run is around Lake Morey and is 5 miles of rolling hills.  Both the cycle and run portions will favor a strong athlete.  There is usualy a field of about 250 athletes and, as usual, is very well run by Richie Havens and Time Out Productions.  I hope to see you all there.. Bob Vetal.   ps.  Look for me in a green Team Morey T-shirt…

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See you there in Vermont. Only 4 days to go. Charles Garabedian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to all..   Just a quick note to see if anyone is doing the Fairlee great triathlon in Fairlee VT!?!?!?  this will be my third time racing it and let me tell ya, its a challenging course for the distance (.75 miles/24miles/5miles).  If your going and interested in what to expect, the swim is usualy nice in Lake Morey which should be in the 75degree range and calm.  The bike portion is tough with 3 good climbs.  One of the climbs at about mile 13 is a leg burner to say the least but the others arent so bad.  The run is around Lake Morey and is 5 miles of rolling hills.  Both the cycle and run portions will favor a strong athlete.  There is usualy a field of about 250 athletes and, as usual, is very well run by Richie Havens and Time Out Productions.  I hope to see you all there.. Bob Vetal.   ps.  Look for me in a green Team Morey T-shirt…

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i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again!

Since glucose, sucrose, fructose, etc are all sugars, I’m not sure there is an energy drink without "sugars". Perhaps you can better define chemically what it is you don’t (can’t ) use? TriBop WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities   http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear enough……. I am looking for recipes for a sports drink, using orange juice instead of sugar.  I would like to use something on my longer runs, but I can’t really use sugar.  Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

Perhaps you need to be a bit more articulate.  Last time I checked orange juice had sugar in it (fructose).  Are you trying to say that you can’t "use" sucrose? Are you diabetic? The overriding purpose of a "sports" drink is 1) fluid replacement 2) energy replacement, and to a much smaller extent 3) electrolite replacement.  So, if you don’t have some form of sugar (glucose, sucrose, fructose, dextrose…) in the drink you might as well be drinking water.  I have yet to see a DIET sportsdrink.  Makes as much sense as dehydrated water. Thom Trimble East Bay Striders

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The only type of sugar that would be ok for me to use would be fructose. that is why i was interested in using the orange juice.  And no I am not looking for a "diet" sport drink. I am talking about during my longer runs 15 miles and over. I could be wrong but wouldn’t water alone be considered inadequate for the distance. Well any help and/or advice would be appreciated.

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        water and orange juice mixed together?         andrew         (sorry, couldn’t resist Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear enough……. I am looking for recipes for a sports drink, using orange juice instead of sugar.  I would like to use something on my longer runs, but I can’t really use sugar.  Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

–            work phone/fax: 0131 668 8356, office: 0131 668 8357     institute for astronomy, royal observatory, blackford hill, edinburgh                      http://www.roe.ac.uk/ajcwww

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The only type of sugar that would be ok for me to use would be fructose. that is why i was interested in using the orange juice.  And no I am not looking for a "diet" sport drink. I am talking about during my longer runs 15 miles and over. I could be wrong but wouldn’t water alone be considered inadequate for the distance. Well any help and/or advice would be appreciated.

Hi Patty I’m starting to think Terry’s drink may be good for you. I found a great source on information about sports drink rehydration. http://chico.rice.edu/~jenkins/sports/dehydration.html Let me summarize: Sweat contains more than two grams of sweat per liter. Gatorade contains just a little more than one. Potassium and sodium are excreted with the sweat and are more crucial to rehydration than electrolytes. The source also suggests not bothering with a sugar sports drink for runs under 1 hour. Just use water. I personally have good results with drinks using Maltodextrin as the sugar. People in the industry say it burns slower. I have found this sugar dominant in some drinks OTHER than Gatorade. You just have to read the label. Oh, and yes I ran 10k this evening. I had two big glasses of water and a chocolate chip cookie. Bye for now,         J Jay Jewitt Gulf Coast Internet Mall http://www.gcnetmall.com

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Hi Patty I’m starting to think Terry’s drink may be good for you. I found a great source on information about sports drink rehydration. http://chico.rice.edu/~jenkins/sports/dehydration.html Let me summarize: Sweat contains more than two grams of sweat per liter. Gatorade

to the triathlon group and his home page is thorough. I sent some info to him at Rice Univ. on behalf of Bill Gookin and don’t know if other "G" word and that is one thing that triggered his inventiveness back in the late 60s. If you decide to contact Bill (or me for that matter) a freebie ’semi-tech’ report on sports activity drinks is diabetes question? I wondered about that. Gookinaid E.R.G. packaging bears the admonition to check with physician in case one is diabetic to ascertain if 5% glucose (max) is tolerable.   2470 Stearns, ste.274             Simi Valley, CA. 93063

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I’ll go way out on a limb here, and say that if the original poster really wants something with no sugar, but wants calories he’s got a few choices. One is to mix up a drink using maltodextrin — which is not technically a sugar.  It’s a chain of sugar molecules, I think the term is a starch. Another possibility is to buy a product called Fat Free Gainers Fuel by Twinlab.  This comes in various flavors and contains starchers, protein, a little fat (MCTs I think), and aspertame (Nutrasweet). It’s made to be mixed up thick, like a shake as a meal replacement or supplement, but I’ve used it thinner (around 10% in water in winter) on long bike rides as a liquid food (instead of powerbars) and it works well. I hate aspertame though, so now I buy regular (not sugar free) Gainers Fuel which has sugar. JT

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Water?

: i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports : drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again!

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Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear enough……. I am looking for recipes for a sports drink, using orange juice instead of sugar.  I would like to use something on my longer runs, but I can’t really use sugar.  Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Waggoner) writes: i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again! Gookinaid E.R.G. (Energy Replacement Glucose) Competition flavor……5% Glucose Lemonade and Fruit Punch flavors ….<1% Fructose, 4%+ Glucose Orange Flavor…..<2% Fructose, 3%+ Glucose I sell it or I can put you in touch with Bill Gookin, the biochemist marathoner who invented it 27 years ago. I wouldn’t back pack or play Respectfully, Terry V. Waggoner, Financial Consultant-Western U.S.                   ‘A Mountain is Something You Don’t Wanta Mess With’ {Quote attributed to Frank Zappa – ’sanitized’ by me} Pardon me,  I thought glucose was sugar.  The original poster wants something without sugar. Nancy  

I don’t want to sound like Mr Wizard or something but now I’m curious about why no sugar. Fruit, milk, bread and candy all has different kinds of sugar. If you want a fluid replacement drink without sugar, you’re a candidate for a trip to the drinking fountain. If taste is what you want, get ANY recipe and substitute an enjoyable quantity of nutrasweet for sugar. I think the sugar is valuable to keep you from depleting. A chewable vitamin C before running would take care of any remaining advantage of a sports drink over water. J Jay Jewitt Gulf Coast Internet Mall http://www.gcnetmall.com

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Gookinaid E.R.G. (Energy Replacement Glucose) Competition flavor……5% Glucose Lemonade and Fruit Punch flavors ….<1% Fructose, 4%+ Glucose Orange Flavor…..<2% Fructose, 3%+ Glucose I sell it or I can put you in touch with Bill Gookin, the biochemist marathoner who invented it 27 years ago. I wouldn’t back pack or play Respectfully, Terry V. Waggoner                  

I don’t want to sound like Mr Wizard or something but now I’m curious about why no sugar. Fruit, milk, bread and candy all has different kinds of sugar. If you want a fluid replacement drink without sugar, you’re a candidate for a trip to the drinking fountain. If taste is what you want, get ANY recipe and substitute an enjoyable quantity of nutrasweet for sugar. I think the sugar is valuable to keep you from depleting. A chewable vitamin C before running would take care of any remaining advantage of a sports drink over water. J Jay Jewitt Gulf Coast Internet Mall http://www.gcnetmall.com

Jay, sorry to take additional bandwidth, but my original late-night posting on Gookinaid E.R.G. had an error. The "E" is for "Electrolyte" and not "Energy". I cancelled the article and rewrote it immediately but it must not have hit all the services. The correction is important because Gookinaid E.R.G. makes your water WORK better by eliminating lower G.I. involvement. Water gets into your system much quicker and cramping is virtually eliminated. No full feeling. My experience is over three years in the high Sierra where proper hydration is vital. The glucose is an important distinction because the common sports activity drinks use glucose *polymers* and digestion is involved. The idea that Gookin had was to replace what the body loses (electrolytes) during exercise and in the proportion lost. My ’selling’ of Gookinaid E.R.G. is a hobby and my motive is to get the best drink possible into tummies. My kids are athletes so I’ve provided the product to soccer teams, softballers, tennis teams and have given it to cramping, dehydrated hikers. There’s no real ‘big buck’ opportunity involved for me here. It’s just fun because so few people have ever heard of this product and I had the opportunity to meet Bill Gookin and thank him for his work. Soooo, if anybody wants to contact him (he’s the biochemist, not me) and get more info, call him in San Diego at 619.689.1959. Try Gookinaid E.R.G. It sells for around a buck a quart or about $10.00 for container that makes 20 2470 Stearns, ste.274             Simi Valley, CA. 93063

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waggoner) writes: i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again! Gookinaid E.R.G. (Energy Replacement Glucose) Competition flavor……5% Glucose Lemonade and Fruit Punch flavors ….<1% Fructose, 4%+ Glucose Orange Flavor…..<2% Fructose, 3%+ Glucose I sell it or I can put you in touch with Bill Gookin, the biochemist marathoner who invented it 27 years ago. I wouldn’t back pack or play Respectfully, Terry V. Waggoner, Financial Consultant-Western U.S.                   ‘A Mountain is Something You Don’t Wanta Mess With’ {Quote attributed to Frank Zappa – ’sanitized’ by me}

Pardon me,  I thought glucose was sugar.  The original poster wants something without sugar. Nancy  

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i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again!

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i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again!

Gookinaid E.R.G. (Energy Replacement Glucose) Competition flavor……5% Glucose Lemonade and Fruit Punch flavors ….<1% Fructose, 4%+ Glucose Orange Flavor…..<2% Fructose, 3%+ Glucose I sell it or I can put you in touch with Bill Gookin, the biochemist marathoner who invented it 27 years ago. I wouldn’t back pack or play Respectfully, Terry V. Waggoner, Financial Consultant-Western U.S.                                     ‘A Mountain is Something You Don’t Wanta Mess With’ {Quote attributed to Frank Zappa – ’sanitized’ by me}

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i know we’ve been through this before, but i need a recipe for a sports drink without sugar in it.  I can’t use sugar.  Thanks again!

Gookinaid E.R.G. (Electrolyte Replacement Glucose) Competition flavor……5% Glucose Lemonade and Fruit Punch flavors ….<1% Fructose, 4%+ Glucose Orange Flavor…..<2% Fructose, 3%+ Glucose I sell it or I can put you in touch with Bill Gookin, the biochemist marathoner who invented it 27 years ago. I wouldn’t back pack or play Respectfully, Terry V. Waggoner, Financial Consultant-Western U.S.                                     ‘A Mountain is Something You Don’t Wanta Mess With’ {Quote attributed to Frank Zappa – ’sanitized’ by me}

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 Hi,   I was wondering why there has been no results for the ITU race   held in Japan on July 8-9 weekend?  The ITU has a WWW page   which has a heading for the results, but no results.  How   difficult can it be to enter in the results into a WWW page   within 24 hours (maximum) of the race being completed – I   am sure it is not difficult to FAX a few pages of results   from Japan to the USA so that they could be entered in a   timely manner? then again it looks as if it is!   Please ITU update your pages in a timely manner and in   also try to enter all of the results from the race just   not the top ten athletes – people might just be interested   in athletes other than those that finish in the top ten! IMHO, |    WW      S. Bert Sandie               | |   /__     MPR Teltech Limited          | |  | oo |    Burnaby, BC, Canada          | |   __/                                  | |  /|/|                                 |

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I strongly second the first comments. Looks like laziness to me. ITU was also too lazy to consider using International Distance to describe their Olympic distance events after the IOC complained. But not too lazy to try to usurp all meaning for the word we formerly used to describe our sport — triathlon — though. I’m sorry, the "triathlon distance triathlon" held recently in Japan. Or is it "triathlon triathlon" — a later absurd variantion on Joseph Heller’s Catch 22 character Major Major Major Major? Or are we violating ITU copyright by calling any other swim-bike-run events that are not 1.5 K swims, 40K bikes and 10k runs triathlons now? I say that a revolution can be accomplished by continuing to use the term Olympic distance — if only for spite. Note that once the term gets into common useage, they cannot defend copyright. Thus a coke takes power away from Coke, once kleenex is accepted as a generic description of tissues, Kleenex loses copyright value, etc. While publications can be liable for use of the forbidden copyright terms, expression on the Internet is both protected by free speech and duly noted by lexicographers and makes its way into dictionaries where the battle may be won.  I say they took the name of the sport and defended it by saying it is just like calling a 26.2 mile footrace a marathon. Not true. It is like calling a 1500 meter race Track and Field. Then the 100 meters and 200 meters and 5000 meters and 10,000 meters can go to hell and search for another generic word to describe footraces and hammer throws. Also, events like the pentathlon and heptathlon and decathlon were invented for the modern Olympic games. But triathlon is the pre-existing name of our sport that beat the 2000 Olympic games in Sydney to the doctionary by 25 years. It refers to the whole sport, from kids’ triathlons of 100 meter swim, 3 mile bike and half mile runs up to triple- and deca-Ironman events. So is an Ironman no longer a triathlon now? is it now "a swim-bike-run multisport event 4.35 triathlons in length?" Gag me.

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I agree with everyone complaining about the stupidity of the ITU in the "Olympic Triathlon" naming debacle.  What *idiot* came up with that stupid idea????  If they couldn’t use the term "Olympic", couldn’t they have at least replaced it with *anything* else simply to distinguish this very standard distance from other very standard distances???  God, they could have just used "Classic" or "Standard" or "Median" or "Wimpy" or "Goofy" or *anything*.  I agree, let’s just stubbornly continue to refer to them as Olympic, ITU be damned. Geez, that’s exasperating! Tricia

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I agree with everyone complaining about the stupidity of the ITU in the "Olympic Triathlon" naming debacle.  What *idiot* came up with that stupid idea????  If they couldn’t use the term "Olympic", couldn’t they have at least replaced it with *anything* else simply to distinguish this very standard distance from other very standard distances???  God, they could have just used "Classic" or "Standard" or "Median" or "Wimpy" or "Goofy" or *anything*.  I agree, let’s just stubbornly continue to refer to them as Olympic, ITU be damned.

[Sorry if I'm about to duplicate something already said; I've been away] Whatever happened to "International Distance"? I read this new "naming" (or non-naming) convention the other night just before starting a run, and almost couldn’t do the run I was laughing so hard. Simply unbelievable. Steve Steve Patt, Stevens Creek Software   http://alumni.caltech.edu/~slp/tad.html (The Athlete’s Diary home page)   ftp://alumni.caltech.edu/pub/slp (Information and demo copies)

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Many of you already know that hte fairmount park triathlon is an ironman qualifier. I need your ideas on how we can make this a great event!! What have you seen at races that you liked and disliked? We are currently looking for volunteers so anyone out there interested in helping, email your name and number and pass it along to the race director. thanks, steve Steve’s Bike and Fitness….Where the strong survive and the weak complain!

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What have you seen at races that you liked and disliked? thanks, steve

Good thread, Steve. Things that have made big differences in the quality of races for me: – transition areas    should be good for spectators: plenty of space, clear view of    both transition areas and the finish    should be good for athletes: end of the swim should be close    to the beginning of the bike, should be one-way, should    allow quick start on bike and run – swim start    I’m not sure how much difference it makes, but I would like    to see the race directors try to encourage more self-seeding    like in 10k races (20:00 behind this sign, 22:00 swim behind    this line …) – bike turnaround    I hate them.  Can’t there be a way to find a 1/4 mile loop    at the midmoint? – aid stations    DON’T RUN OUT OF WATER!!! – race route    Scenic forest, mountain, river, or city routes are nice.    Traffic is bad, especially on the bike.    Big boats like barges are bad on the swim (I have a feeling    this can be coordinated with the Coast Guard) – post-race activities    Setup should encourage socialization: refreshments should be    near plenty of benches and near the finish line    Showers are nice    Awards ceremony:  I prefer it to start a few minutes later    and have the results be more accurate – results    As a more-or-less middle-of-the-packer, I am more interested    in how I did with respect to the field than with respect to    the winners.  I would like to see the results in histogram    form (10 people under 1:55, 20 people under 2:00, 80 people    under 2:05…)  Then I easily see where I fit in. — Dan Reiley, Ph.D.         AT&T Bell Labs    Naperville, IL

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What have you seen at races that you liked and disliked? thanks, steve Good thread, Steve.

Having the transition area close to the water rates high with me.  I have been to races that actually laid outdoor carpet from the lake to the transition area which was only 25 yards away, to the other extreme which was a 0.25 mile run up a boat ramp with about a 15 degree grade (YUK!). Something else I really liked was a criterium format race I did last year on a college campus.  It was fun to keep going by the race start which was filled with people cheering everybody on. Mike —

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: Many of you already know that hte fairmount park triathlon is an ironman : qualifier. : I need your ideas on how we can make this a great event!! : What have you seen at races that you liked and disliked? T shirt design rates pretty high with me.  (OK, so I’m shallow )   We’ve got a tri here in Minnesota which has T shirts designed by a wild life artist.  (The race director’s son.)  They are really beautiful and are a real draw for the event. How about sponsoring a T shirt design contest at your local high schools, technical schools, colleges, etc?  The prizes could be pretty cheap since most of these kids would be motivated just by the opportunity to have lots of people wearing their art.  I bet you’d get some awesome designs.   Probably enough good ones for several races. I’d also suggest going deep with the awards and having lots of divisions.  It’s a real thrill for someone who never places to bring home some hardware.  Personally, I have no problem seeing everyone in one of the smaller divisions bring home an award.  IMO, the sixth place finisher in women’s 65+ deserves an award just for being out there. Dave LaPorte U. Minn. PS.  Please don’t flame me if you are a 65+ woman.  It was an arbitrary choice.  ;-)

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Having the transition area close to the water rates high with me.  I have been to races that actually laid outdoor carpet from the lake to the transition area which was only 25 yards away, to the other extreme which was a 0.25 mile run up a boat ramp with about a 15 degree grade (YUK!).

Ahhh, memories of Wildflower and the run up the ramp.  With any luck all of the rain will make the run only 1/8 of a mile up the 15 deg. boat ramp. John (I always run the ramp to fast to breath) K.

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