Question:

Does anybody own one? Are they worth it? Is it comfortable? Does it wear well? I’ve been riding one since Feb, and I think it’s worth it.  I spend a lot of time on my aero bars, and it’s pretty comfortable even on 100+ mile rides. It’s also wearing pretty well.  Just don’t tighten your post too tight or you’ll damage the rails.

I’ve been riding one for three years, now on the tri model.  They are great but as stated beware of the rails.  I have gone through 3 set’s of rails and only weigh 155 lbs.  They claim to have corrected the problwm, ans so far so good with new ones they have put on my saddle.

Response:

Had one for a while, the Ti rails tend to wear and the seat gets more an more bouncy.  If you ride long miles you’ll still get numb, sorry.  The outer shell wore well, I like this version better than the Koobi Si I had a long time ago because it is more narrow.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking about splashing out on the above. NOT CHEAP! But good review on Slowtwitch. Does anybody own one? Are they worth it? Is it comfortable? Does it wear well? Currently using a Selle Italia Pro Link. But cannot hold the aero position without bits going numb reasonably quickly. Jon

Response:

I for one did not like the saddle, but it comes with a money back guarantee and they were great about taking the saddle back because I couldn’t get comfy.You cant lose. I now ride the triathlete saddle by san marco, and love it. see: azoto saddle http://www.tri-zone.com/Catalog/BikeIndex.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thinking about splashing out on the above. NOT CHEAP! But good review on Slowtwitch. Does anybody own one? Are they worth it? Is it comfortable? Does it wear well? Currently using a Selle Italia Pro Link. But cannot hold the aero position without bits going numb reasonably quickly. Jon

Response:

Does anybody own one? Are they worth it? Is it comfortable? Does it wear well?

I’ve been riding one since Feb, and I think it’s worth it.  I spend a lot of time on my aero bars, and it’s pretty comfortable even on 100+ mile rides. It’s also wearing pretty well.  Just don’t tighten your post too tight or you’ll damage the rails.

Response:

Thinking about splashing out on the above. NOT CHEAP! But good review on Slowtwitch. Does anybody own one? Are they worth it? Is it comfortable? Does it wear well? Currently using a Selle Italia Pro Link. But cannot hold the aero position without bits going numb reasonably quickly. Jon

Response:

Question:

Its probably caused by the fact that you are lying down for a long time and your blood os pooling.

Response:

Or, it could just be that your wetsuit is too tight. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, how *spent* did you feel after the swim?  I’m thinking that one possible cause might be that you’ve basically *blown your tubes* during the swim and your body is pumping the majority of your blood supply to your legs & arms.  If this is the case, I think it is quite reasonable to expect some lightheadedness/dizziness when you bend over. In my last triathlon, I recall feeling totally spent after the swim and it is a fortunate thing that I didn’t have to strip off a wetsuit, because I’m sure I would have fallen over.  As it transpired, I had to _run_ (more of a stagger actually) some distance to T1 so I’d recovered a little by the time I actually had to do any bending over. Just a thought, I could be way off beam though. Andy John, could it be that the only time you’re swimming in water that is moving up and down is also the only time you have your wetsuit on? What I mean is that it might have nothing to do with your wetsuit, but that whenever you wear your wetsuit you’re in open water that is moving up and down. Often you can’t even tell that the water is moving when you’re in it, but your inner ears are able to discern the movement. In a pool with lane markers the water doesn’t move the same way. I sometimes feel dizzy when exiting an open water swim, wetsuit or not. Also, typically, in a pool, we get to cool down on the wall before exiting the pool, allowing your equilibrium to return to it’s normal orientation before attempting locomotion. (everybody’s doing a brand new dance now…come on baby…sorry)  quite different from suddenly standing up and running for our bikes, it’s a wonder more people don’t fall over getting to the transition area. Just a guess. Mike Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Response:

John: I believe your symptoms are caused by gravity, and have nothing to do with vertigo or your wetsuit. Vertigo is an imbalance, caused by incorrect or conflicting input from the otolith organs called the saccule and utricle. These organs are located in the inner ear and sense body position and linear and vertical acceleration. When the head is tilted at a certain angle, such as in swimming, small hair cells in these organs move, which in turn sends a signal to the brain about the head’s orientation. The body adjusts accordingly  in open water swims. Your dizziness is experienced while exiting the water and not while swimming. Therefore, your sensation is less likely an inner ear imbalance, and more likely the simple effects of Gravity. The dizziness is more caused by blood rushing out of your head and upper body at a very rapid rate while you are attempting to stand up and exit the water. This sensation does not dissipate with experience. However, you will become more accustomed to this sensation over time. Keith "I’m not a M.D., but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night" Simmons www.IronmanWetsuits.com Toll free: 800-897-6464 Office: 804-288-6000

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Response:

"Postural Hypotension" Look it up in your Merck’s Manual. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John: I believe your symptoms are caused by gravity, and have nothing to do with vertigo or your wetsuit. Vertigo is an imbalance, caused by incorrect or conflicting input from the otolith organs called the saccule and utricle. These organs are located in the inner ear and sense body position and linear and vertical acceleration. When the head is tilted at a certain angle, such as in swimming, small hair cells in these organs move, which in turn sends a signal to the brain about the head’s orientation. The body adjusts accordingly  in open water swims. Your dizziness is experienced while exiting the water and not while swimming. Therefore, your sensation is less likely an inner ear imbalance, and more likely the simple effects of Gravity. The dizziness is more caused by blood rushing out of your head and upper body at a very rapid rate while you are attempting to stand up and exit the water. This sensation does not dissipate with experience. However, you will become more accustomed to this sensation over time. Keith "I’m not a M.D., but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night" Simmons www.IronmanWetsuits.com Toll free: 800-897-6464 Office: 804-288-6000 Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Response:

Is "postural hypotension" the same thing as a "headrush"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Postural Hypotension" Look it up in your Merck’s Manual. John: I believe your symptoms are caused by gravity, and have nothing to do with vertigo or your wetsuit. Vertigo is an imbalance, caused by incorrect or conflicting input from the otolith organs called the saccule and utricle. These organs are located in the inner ear and sense body position and linear and vertical acceleration. When the head is tilted at a certain angle, such as in swimming, small hair cells in these organs move, which in turn sends a signal to the brain about the head’s orientation. The body adjusts accordingly  in open water swims. Your dizziness is experienced while exiting the water and not while swimming. Therefore, your sensation is less likely an inner ear imbalance, and more likely the simple effects of Gravity. The dizziness is more caused by blood rushing out of your head and upper body at a very rapid rate while you are attempting to stand up and exit the water. This sensation does not dissipate with experience. However, you will become more accustomed to this sensation over time. Keith "I’m not a M.D., but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night" Simmons www.IronmanWetsuits.com Toll free: 800-897-6464 Office: 804-288-6000 Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Before you buy.

Response:

John, how *spent* did you feel after the swim?  I’m thinking that one possible cause might be that you’ve basically *blown your tubes* during the swim and your body is pumping the majority of your blood supply to your legs & arms.  If this is the case, I think it is quite reasonable to expect some lightheadedness/dizziness when you bend over. In my last triathlon, I recall feeling totally spent after the swim and it is a fortunate thing that I didn’t have to strip off a wetsuit, because I’m sure I would have fallen over.  As it transpired, I had to _run_ (more of a stagger actually) some distance to T1 so I’d recovered a little by the time I actually had to do any bending over. Just a thought, I could be way off beam though. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, could it be that the only time you’re swimming in water that is moving up and down is also the only time you have your wetsuit on? What I mean is that it might have nothing to do with your wetsuit, but that whenever you wear your wetsuit you’re in open water that is moving up and down. Often you can’t even tell that the water is moving when you’re in it, but your inner ears are able to discern the movement. In a pool with lane markers the water doesn’t move the same way. I sometimes feel dizzy when exiting an open water swim, wetsuit or not. Also, typically, in a pool, we get to cool down on the wall before exiting the pool, allowing your equilibrium to return to it’s normal orientation before attempting locomotion. (everybody’s doing a brand new dance now…come on baby…sorry)  quite different from suddenly standing up and running for our bikes, it’s a wonder more people don’t fall over getting to the transition area. Just a guess. Mike Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Response:

Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Response:

John, could it be that the only time you’re swimming in water that is moving up and down is also the only time you have your wetsuit on? What I mean is that it might have nothing to do with your wetsuit, but that whenever you wear your wetsuit you’re in open water that is moving up and down. Often you can’t even tell that the water is moving when you’re in it, but your inner ears are able to discern the movement. In a pool with lane markers the water doesn’t move the same way. I sometimes feel dizzy when exiting an open water swim, wetsuit or not. Also, typically, in a pool, we get to cool down on the wall before exiting the pool, allowing your equilibrium to return to it’s normal orientation before attempting locomotion. (everybody’s doing a brand new dance now…come on baby…sorry)  quite different from suddenly standing up and running for our bikes, it’s a wonder more people don’t fall over getting to the transition area. Just a guess. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Response:

I think it might be due to cold water hitting your eardrum. The reason it happens when you wear your wetsuit might be unrelated to your wetsuit, but to the fact that you only use the wetsuit when you swim in water cold enough to irritate your ear to this extent. Try wearing a wetsuit hood, or wax earplugs. Also, the reason that you don’t notice the vertigo right away may be that your attention is focused on other things, and you’re moving. It’s easier to notice vertigo when you’re still. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, could it be that the only time you’re swimming in water that is moving up and down is also the only time you have your wetsuit on? What I mean is that it might have nothing to do with your wetsuit, but that whenever you wear your wetsuit you’re in open water that is moving up and down. Often you can’t even tell that the water is moving when you’re in it, but your inner ears are able to discern the movement. In a pool with lane markers the water doesn’t move the same way. I sometimes feel dizzy when exiting an open water swim, wetsuit or not. Also, typically, in a pool, we get to cool down on the wall before exiting the pool, allowing your equilibrium to return to it’s normal orientation before attempting locomotion. (everybody’s doing a brand new dance now…come on baby…sorry)  quite different from suddenly standing up and running for our bikes, it’s a wonder more people don’t fall over getting to the transition area. Just a guess. Mike Hi all – I am perplexed by vertigo/dizziness that I have after open water swims with a full wetsuit.  I have only had the wetsuit a few months, and only swam with it a handful of times, but the vertigo has been consistent. It starts as I exit the water – little bit of "sea legs" – and as I go to strip off the suit I just about fall over.  One friend put forth the theory that the blood is returning to the capillaries and after being restricted by the suit, and he suggests removing the suit gradually instead of immediately "dropping the top".  In other words 1) unzip, wait; 2) eventually drop the top; 3) wriggle out of the mid-section; and 4) strip off the legs.  This plan worked a little better, but it’s actually at the leg part that I have the worst of the dizziness. Any advice?  TIA! John

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know anything on this IM distance race? What’s the course like? Is it a good (fun) race? How does it compare to other races/courses? Any info is always appreciated. Gregor No, I’m not selling anything!

Response:

Gregor,  This is the first time Lake Geneva will have an IM distance race.  I’ve ridden the bike course, two loops, and it does have some hills, the run course is 4 laps of the traditional Olympic distance course including 4 trips up and down "Killer Hill".   I would have to rate this course as "Extreme" hence the marketing title "Lake Geneva Extreme Triathlon". If you would like more specific info let me know. Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know anything on this IM distance race? What’s the course like? Is it a good (fun) race? How does it compare to other races/courses? Any info is always appreciated. Gregor No, I’m not selling anything!

Response:

Question:

Hi, Have tall friend wanting to get into sport with low budget. do you have a modestly priced racing bike for sale that would fit a very tall drink of water? Please respond to me.

Response:

We have a good selection of equipment for both Clydesdale and Tall athletes.  I am big and through personal experience have pretty good knowledge of good big bikes (all price ranges) and racing and training equipment for big guys and athletic women, including wetsuits. — Bud Bonzai web site      www.erols.com/bonzaisports 703-280-2248 : Have tall friend wanting to get into sport with low budget. do you have a : modestly priced racing bike for sale that would fit a very tall drink of water? : Please respond to me. : :

Response:

Question:

I am looking for a license plate frame that says " I’d Rather Be Running". Has anybody seen these for sale anywhere.  I have seen them on cars but I can’t find them anywhere. My daughter wants one for her car for Christmas.  Please help. Thanks,

Response:

I am looking for a license plate frame that says " I’d Rather Be Running". Has anybody seen these for sale anywhere.  I have seen them on cars but I can’t find them anywhere. My daughter wants one for her car for Christmas.  Please help. Thanks,

 I am looking for that same frame…let me know if you find it! Thanks, Jenn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a license plate frame that says " I’d Rather Be Running". Has anybody seen these for sale anywhere.  I have seen them on cars but I can’t find them anywhere. My daughter wants one for her car for Christmas. Please help. Thanks,  I am looking for that same frame…let me know if you find it! Thanks, Jenn

Some places will custom make a license plate frame.  Perhaps a novelty store, possibly associated with an amusement park.   There is also the possibility of buying a blank frame, then using the stick on letters from a hardware or craft store.

Response:

Running Wild in Fort Lauderdale, Florida sells running license plates.  In fact, I have one that says "Marathoner – I do 26.2"  Their phone number is 954-492-0077.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a license plate frame that says " I’d Rather Be Running". Has anybody seen these for sale anywhere.  I have seen them on cars but I can’t find them anywhere. My daughter wants one for her car for Christmas. Please help. Thanks, I am looking for that same frame…let me know if you find it! Thanks, Jenn

If you go to one of those flea markets you can find stalls where the vendor will custom make one for you with whatever you want on it. Andrew Heiz

Response:

I know they’re out there too but can’t think where.  But Road Runners Sports has the I (heart) Running plate in hard plastic (white on black) for $12.99, item #RDG-03.  Call RRS at 1-800-551-5558. David/IndyRunr                                     The Indianapolis 500 Is                           "The Greatest Spectacle In Racing"              

Response:

We sell running license plate frames – I’d rather be running" and Marathoner – I do 26.2  as well as triathlete – Swim-Bike-Run Visit our web site at www.hitekracing.com

Response:

We sell running license plate frames – I’d rather be running" and Marathoner –

I do 26.2  as well as triathlete – SORRY – Our mistake. We have the "I LOVE (heart)  RUNNING" style, not the "I’d rather be running" version. We apologize for the confusion. Happy Running Tom HI-TEK Racing www.hitekracing.com

Response:

Question:

I’m going to be relocating to San Luis Obispo, CA soon.  Anyone have any information about tri clubs, masters programs or any other tri related workouts in SLO? Gracios! -PC

Response:

Great place to relocate to dude!!!!!  They have a very active Tri club called the SLO Roadrunners.  The Cal Poly  track coach could probably hook you up.  The Wildflower Triathlon Festival is just right up the road in May.  Good luck!

Response:

Question:

Go on Charlie Crawford, you bad ass! Get on with yo’ bad self. You one BAD mo’fo.

Response:

draft rules for . What do you have to say about unsanctioned events in this country in which drafting is, de facto, legal?

I say that unsanctioned events have nothing to do with USAT sanctioned events.   We did not vote nor elect the officials of those unsanctioned events  as we did the officials of USAT.  Those elected officials of USAT ran for office on a platform that said NO DRAFTING.  Somebody is not standing behind the membership nor the things they claim to believe in.  It seems there is not much honor nor integrity amongst our leadership. Ken

Response:

I say that unsanctioned events have nothing to do with USAT sanctioned events.   We did not vote nor elect the officials of those unsanctioned events  as we did the officials of USAT.  Those elected officials of USAT ran for office on a platform that said NO DRAFTING.  Somebody is not standing behind the membership nor the things they claim to believe in.  It seems there is not much honor nor integrity amongst our leadership. Ken

I was highly critical of USAT’s decision to allow the pro drafting at St. Anthony’s and stand by that criticism. However, my criticism did not malign their honor or integrity and I think you are out of line to do so. They are honest, hard working people who are trying to do what they think is best. I personally think they made a bad, short-sighted decision and I hope they reconsider that, especially in light of the reported comments of some of the pros at S.A. – "No drafting next year." But their honesty and integrity is not in question as far as I’m concerned. Mike "TriBop" Tennent WebRunner Running Page http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html My Model Railroad Page http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/srr/

Response:

Maybe it is time to let ITU head on down their road to the olympics so they can all feel like big shots. USAT can follow along like a nice puppy. Then, we can start an organization to bring back the sport of triathlon the way MOST of us want it to be.

Response:

So be it Dr. T, Yep, there are a lot of folks out there that just don’t have what it takes to stand up for what they claim to believe in. Just watch, pretty soon someone will put the IM events on Pay for view TV and a lot of folks will just be little lambs and pay.  That will be the end of watching it on the open cable channels. Next will be all legal drafting events.  As you say, those with no moxy are doing St. Anthony’s. Well, unfortunately we elected some folks to represent us that are not living up to their platform promises. seya in the pack Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! Here is a qoute from the new USA Triathlon Times titled "ITU RULE CHANGES". "The International Triathlon Union recently announced that the ITU Triathlon, in Perth, Australia, and the ITU Duathlon World Championship, in Guernica, Spain will be draft-legal for Elites AND JUNIORS." Give an inch…..take a mile.   Dr. T

Response:

: : : Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave : : drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those : : non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at : : St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! : : Dr T, if you really believe that you will get away with drafting at St : Anthony’s, why don’t you come on down and test my crew of officials. : : And, if you really believe that ITU has been enforcing draft rules for : age groupers in the past four years, you are a fool! : : -Charlie Crawford : Charlie, : I think you misunderstood me.  I am not racing at St. Anthony’s, and : never will since they are alowing drafting in the Pro field.  I do not : believe that drafting has any place in the sport of triathlon. : My point was that those who argued against boycotting St. Anthony’s : because they believed that drafting would never find its way into the : amateur ranks, and believed that it was OK in the Pro field without ever : affecting them, were wrong. No, they are right!  ITU races have ALL been draft legal for years.  That has not changed what we do in the USA events.  It also hasn’t seemed to reduce the competition of American age-groupers who each year compete for a spot on the age-group team, go to the ITU Worlds and discover each year that drafting is apparently legal. What do you have to say about unsanctioned events in this country in which drafting is, de facto, legal?

Response:

Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! Here is a qoute from the new USA Triathlon Times titled "ITU RULE CHANGES". "The International Triathlon Union recently announced that the ITU Triathlon, in Perth, Australia, and the ITU Duathlon World Championship, in Guernica, Spain will be draft-legal for Elites AND JUNIORS." Give an inch…..take a mile.   Dr. T

Not to reincite this issue again, but you can rip me, shred me, and hang me out to dry for going to St. Anthony’s, BUT….it’s easy enough to bitch away electronically on RST about this. Inside Triathlon states that Murray Bairsto (Race director, St. Anthony’s) got only two (2) WRITTEN letters of protest about the pro draft.  One of them was mine, enclosed with my race app.     I’m sorely disappointed about the pro’s choice to draft – I do think it seems a lot like a sell out.     The pros are getting a 20 minute start on us, so as to avoid any safety conflicts/issues  AND more importantly, I’m very comfortable that Charlie Crawford will run a tight anti-draft ship with the age groupers.    Any of us who are anti-draft  protest this mess at St. A’s in different ways…but Lord knows, I ain’t hangin’ my head in shame about my method. I know how I’m gonna race the race, and I ain’t gonna wheelsuck.  End of story. Chaz

Response:

Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! Here is a qoute from the new USA Triathlon Times titled "ITU RULE CHANGES". "The International Triathlon Union recently announced that the ITU Triathlon, in Perth, Australia, and the ITU Duathlon World Championship, in Guernica, Spain will be draft-legal for Elites AND JUNIORS." Give an inch…..take a mile.   Dr. T

Response:

Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame!

Why should I hang my head? Michael Valleriano

Response:

: Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave : drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those : non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at : St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! Dr T, if you really believe that you will get away with drafting at St Anthony’s, why don’t you come on down and test my crew of officials. And, if you really believe that ITU has been enforcing draft rules for age groupers in the past four years, you are a fool! -Charlie Crawford

Charlie, You speak for the great majority of us amateur athletes. We are very much against drafting. Please keep up the excellent work. It is also very true that the ITU does nothing to enforce drafting at their amateur world championships. The duathlon championships in Ferrara are an example — it wasn’t draft-legal, in theory, but in practice the age-groupers were in packs of 30-100. No one was using their aero bars. John Miller Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

: Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave : drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those : non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at : St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! Dr T, if you really believe that you will get away with drafting at St Anthony’s, why don’t you come on down and test my crew of officials. And, if you really believe that ITU has been enforcing draft rules for age groupers in the past four years, you are a fool! -Charlie Crawford

Response:

: Well the argument that as amateurs we have no concern about the Pro-wave : drafting has just been blown out of the water by the ITU.  Those : non-drafting advocates that turned their head and paid for an entry at : St. Anthony’s should hang their heads in shame! Dr T, if you really believe that you will get away with drafting at St Anthony’s, why don’t you come on down and test my crew of officials. And, if you really believe that ITU has been enforcing draft rules for age groupers in the past four years, you are a fool! -Charlie Crawford

Charlie, I think you misunderstood me.  I am not racing at St. Anthony’s, and never will since they are alowing drafting in the Pro field.  I do not believe that drafting has any place in the sport of triathlon. My point was that those who argued against boycotting St. Anthony’s because they believed that drafting would never find its way into the amateur ranks, and believed that it was OK in the Pro field without ever affecting them, were wrong. The decision by the ITU to alow the juniors to draft is just one more step in the wrong direction. I know that the ITU does not enforce the drafting rules, and thats just one more reason why we should not support drafting in any race that will "prepare" any athletes for the ITU Worlds Draftathon. You won’t find me testing your officials because I won’t be sucking anyones wheel in any race!   I don’t understand what made you think I am pro-drafting. Dr.T

Response:

Question:

I just talked to Steve Locke.  He apologized for not doing this himself but he’s really busy right now.  Here’s what Steve told me.   * "There are no angels here.  Lot’s of different problems created the      unfortunate situation at Muncie."       1) The officials were USAT but the rules they were enforcing were          ITU.  The ITU "illegal drafting race" rule allows 30 seconds for a          pass (USAT is 15 secs).  Also, in the ITU rule if you end up not          passing within the 30 seconds you just leave the zone and you’re          cool.  So, folks just play the in-and-out game – clearly nearly          impossible for a marshal to enforce.  USAT rules close that loop          hole by saying that if you don’t pass within the specified time          you were drafting.       2) Only 9 motorcycles showed up (he didn’t say why).  Steve says that          the theory this was an "ITU conspiracy" is "Totally Bogus".  So .          .  .  25 refs showed but only 9 were on the course.       3) For an unknown reason the ITU director at the race did *not*          direct all 9 motorcycles to officiate the age group race after          they were done with the pros. Steve also mentioned how graphic the drafting was in the age groups.  Lots and lots of cheating.  That, IMHO, is not a USAT or ITU problem – IT’S OUR PROBLEM AS ATHLETES. —    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

I just talked to Steve Locke.  He apologized for not doing this himself but he’s really busy right now.  Here’s what Steve told me.  * "There are no angels here.  Lot’s of different problems created the     unfortunate situation at Muncie."      1) The officials were USAT but the rules they were enforcing were         ITU.  The ITU "illegal drafting race" rule allows 30 seconds for a         pass (USAT is 15 secs).  Also, in the ITU rule if you end up not         passing within the 30 seconds you just leave the zone and you’re         cool.  So, folks just play the in-and-out game – clearly nearly         impossible for a marshal to enforce.  USAT rules close that loop         hole by saying that if you don’t pass within the specified time         you were drafting.

Larry, please clarify this for me. Does this mean that if I am attempting to pass and that rider puts out an effort to stay ahead, if he/she can hold me off for 15 seconds then I am subject to a drafting call? I have been under the impression that if a pass was unsuccessful one must merely drop out of the zone before attempting again. You are saying here that unless one is 100% sure that they can make the pass, it is cheating to even attempt it. Maybe USAT needs to look at our own rules a little closer. This, to me, is downright stupid if true. We are, after all, racing out there. snip<< Steve also mentioned how graphic the drafting was in the age groups.  Lots and lots of cheating.  That, IMHO, is not a USAT or ITU problem – IT’S OUR PROBLEM AS ATHLETES.

Well said! I agree with this completely. And, as athletes, we need to support the officials and their actions to keep anarchy out of the sport. Enforcement is the best (maybe the only) way to keep the athletes playing fair. Many will take it as far as they are allowed to. Every pitcher in MLB knows how every umpire judges the strike zone, and adjusts to it. The NFL and NBA players do the same thing. They play by the rules *as enforced*, not as written. If pass interference was against the rules in football, but the referees chose to not penalize for it, imagine the result. Andrew Peabody Miami Beach —   LSC (aka Larry Chapman)   (970) 229-3117

– Internet Communications Of America

Response:

Larry, please clarify this for me. Does this mean that if I am attempting to pass and that rider puts out an effort to stay ahead, if he/she can hold me off for 15 seconds then I am subject to a drafting call?

That is correct. I have been under the impression that if a pass was unsuccessful one must merely drop out of the zone before attempting again.

That’s how the rules used to be written.  Unfortunatly, many cheaters started playing the in-and-out game.  We even had a Pro set his watch to beep every 15 seconds! You are saying here that unless one is 100% sure that they can make the pass, it is cheating to even attempt it.

Right. "5.10.H  Exceptions.         A participant may enter the drafting zone without penalty only         under the following conditions:            (1) When entering the drafting zone from the rear, closing the                gap, and overtaking, all within no more than 15 seconds." Maybe USAT needs to look at our own rules a little closer. This, to me, is downright stupid if true. We are, after all, racing out there.

So . . . suggest an alternative that will prevent in-and-out. snip<< Steve also mentioned how graphic the drafting was in the age groups.  Lots and lots of cheating.  That, IMHO, is not a USAT or ITU problem – IT’S OUR PROBLEM AS ATHLETES.

–    LSC (aka Larry Chapman)    (970) 229-3117

Response:

        …in the ITU rule if you end up not         passing within the 30 seconds you just leave the zone and you’re         cool.  So, folks just play the in-and-out game – clearly nearly         impossible for a marshal to enforce.  USAT rules close that loop         hole by saying that if you don’t pass within the specified time         you were drafting. Larry, please clarify this for me.

Will you listen to anyone other than Larry? Does this mean that if I am attempting to pass and that rider puts out an effort to stay ahead, if he/she can hold me off for 15 seconds then I am subject to a drafting call?

Technically speaking, "Yup!" From the rule book:   5.10(h) Exceptions:     A participant may enter the drafting zone without penalty only under     the following conditions:         (1) When entering the drafting zone from the rear, closing             the gap, and overtaking all within no more than 15 seconds;         (2) When cyclists reduce speed for safety reasons, for             course blockage, for an aid station, for an emergency, when             entering or exiting a transition area, or when making a turn             of 90 degrees or more; or         (3) When USA Triathlon or the Head Referee expressly excludes             a section of the bicycle course from the position foul             rules because of overly narrow lanes, construction, detours,             or a similar reason. This means that the only time you are allowed 15 seconds is if you enter the drafting zone from the back and pass the other cyclist within those 15 seconds.  Since you must enter from the back, this also prevents you from slipping in the side, drafting the other cyclist for 10 seconds and then passing him. I have been under the impression that if a pass was unsuccessful one must merely drop out of the zone before attempting again. You are saying here that unless one is 100% sure that they can make the pass, it is cheating to even attempt it.

From Section 5.10(f) of the rule book (the section on "Position and Passing"):     A participant must not attempt to pass another cyclist unless     adequate space is available and he is confident of his ability     to overtake and pass the other cyclist. There is no violation for attempting to pass when you are less than 100% sure you can successfully complete the pass.  The violation occurs if you actually fail to complete it (i.e. the violation is not in attempting the pass, but in failing to complete it).  My belief is that the above sentence in the rules is included to prevent people from using the excuse, "Really! I was trying to pass!" Back to the example that Andrew presented above, I would be very surprised if you got a penalty because you tried to pass someone and they accelerated.  I have spoken to at least one "zero tolerance" official who says he really only penalizes people who are trying to gain a benefit from drafting.  Of course, if you repeatedly failed to pass people, then it wouldn’t surprise me as much if you were penalized.   The safest way to pass someone is to move to the side and pass them without ever intersecting drafting zones.  If the zones never intersect, then there cannot be a drafting violation, even if it takes you 3 minutes to pass them (if it takes 3 minutes, then make sure you don’t block other cyclists). Maybe USAT needs to look at our own rules a little closer.

On numerous occasions (like since before RST even existed and tri talk took place on rec.running and rec.bicycles), Larry has solicited rule suggestions from people on the net.  If you have ideas for rule changes or additions, then send them to Larry or even post them here on RST.  That’s what I always do!  But in doing so, I would also suggest that instead of just pointing out flaws in the rules, you try and suggest ways to fix those flaws. This, to me, is downright stupid if true.

It’s not so stupid when you compare it to the ITU rule that has a loophole in it big enough to allow rapidly rotating pacelines. We are, after all, racing out there.

Yup, but in order to keep the race fair, we all have to follow the same set of rules.  Until some rules are written that distinguish between the case Andrew describes above and the guy who sucks wheel for 15 seconds before dropping back, I think the correct choice is to have the rule be a little too strict rather than too lenient. (Remember that the rule must be enforceable and cannot require the official to read anyone’s mind to determine intent). While we are on the topic of rules, I’d like to point out one other aspect of the USAT drafting rules that are often misunderstood.  A lot of people believe that you only need to stay 1 meter to the side of someone else to avoid a drafting violation.  This is incorrect.  The USAT drafting rules state that your drafting zone only needs to intersect with the drafting zone of another cyclist to be in violation.  Remembering that drafting zones extend 1 meter to each side, this means that you must stay 2 meters to the side of another cyclist. As always, if anyone wants to see the USAT rules, I have them on my web page.  Remember that the only way for everyone to follow the same rules is if everyone makes an effort to learn them.                                         — John — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

Response:

Question:

: If anyone knows of any NYC triathlon clubs please send me email : : Thanks : Julia Stone Hey Julia, Come on over the Coles and check out the bulletin board on the second floor outside the pool office.  NYU has a huge TriClub that travels to races, holds scheduled workouts, parties, and even gets some reembursement from the University.  The coach is Scott Willett and his number is (212) 998-2063.

Response:

If anyone knows of any NYC triathlon clubs please send me email Thanks Julia Stone

Response:

Question:

A little bit of juice can certainly help a man, too. JJ, You previously established a woman’s right to develop male secondary sex characteristics thru the use of anabolic steroids. Now you are now endorsing the male use of steroids, too?

BDD’s style of argument, made famous by a Wisconsinian in 1954, seems inappropriate in a newsgroup whose sole purpose is to provide a forum for athletes eager to discuss their shared concerns about their participation in triathlon.  It is a method of proving one’s point that has never achieved any respect. Ruth Kazez

Response:

BDD’s style of argument, made famous by a Wisconsinian in 1954, seems inappropriate in a newsgroup whose sole purpose is to provide a forum for athletes eager to discuss their shared concerns about their participation in triathlon.  It is a method of proving one’s point that has never achieved any respect.

This is the ‘net.  Free speech and all.  I hesitate to have anyone define a "sole purpose" for this newsgroup as a front to stifle a person’s independent voice. The social pressure you seek to create is closer to McCarthyism than anything. Seattle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruth Kazez

Response:

JJ, You previously established a woman’s right to develop male secondary sex characteristics thru the use of anabolic steroids. Now you are now endorsing the male use of steroids, too? This is getting out of hand. I’m putting you on RST probation, JJ. – BDD

Uh, oh, You should have sent a comment like that to me private e-mail. No need for RST probation. If  you can produce my full quotes that establish either of those two statements that you made