Question:

I have a dull ache accompanied by slight swelling on the inside of my shin about 2" above the bone protrusion on the inside of my ankle. This is only on one leg.  So far it is barely noticeable while running but do observe the symptoms after.  I don’t remember ever having shin splints or really know what a high ankle sprain is.  Should I treat this as serious? My running background is as follows:  46 years old, HS miler, Triathlete the past 6 years. My year round average has been bout 2.5 days a week with an annual total of between 800 and 1000 miles.  For the past month I have been focusing on my running, bring my weekly mileage into the 30’s and run days to 5. I have had this problem on and off since March and must admit my mileage and my number of run days per week was very inconsistent from week to week early in the year.  It was much more consistent on average from month to month. Any ideas what this might be?  Any recommendations of what to do? Thanks, Steve W.

Response:

Hmmm, slight swelling. I had something like that once.  If you put a finger right on the pain, and move your foot around, do you fell anything move underneath your finger?  Is the pain about the size of your thumb? While a lot of people said I had shin splints and taking time off was all I could do for it.  I recovered a bit and then they thought I could run again. My pain ended up getting quit a bit worse after that. I went to a Physical Therapist and he said it had to be a stress fracture because there was no muscle or ligaments where the pain was. Astronauts have to do exercises to keep their bones from getting too brittle and I the exercise I was given, might be something they do. He gave me an exercise to do with rubber tubing that got rid of the pain in a few days.  While I won’t mention the exact exercise he had me do, I’ll tell you what I use now incase I ever start getting a pain in the same location. I sit in a chair with my feet flat on the ground, then I slid my feet together.  After that, I try to press the balls of my feet against each other.  I could use the rubber tubing, and do one foot at a time, but I do not always carry it, and besides, it is a lot faster without anything extra. -2k

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a dull ache accompanied by slight swelling on the inside of my shin about 2" above the bone protrusion on the inside of my ankle. This is only on one leg.  So far it is barely noticeable while running but do observe the symptoms after.  I don’t remember ever having shin splints or really know what a high ankle sprain is.  Should I treat this as serious? My running background is as follows:  46 years old, HS miler, Triathlete the past 6 years. My year round average has been bout 2.5 days a week with an annual total of between 800 and 1000 miles.  For the past month I have been focusing on my running, bring my weekly mileage into the 30’s and run days to 5. I have had this problem on and off since March and must admit my mileage and my number of run days per week was very inconsistent from week to week early in the year.  It was much more consistent on average from month to month. Any ideas what this might be?  Any recommendations of what to do? Thanks, Steve W.

Response:

Question:

These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability. — Marc

Response:

These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability.

Never heard anything good about them.  Had a loaner pair for a week (brand new)  They creaked, they had play in the hub out of the box and went out of true by the end of the week, was glad to return them.  For a good, cheap wheelset try velocity deep v’s with dura-ace hubs, have your lbs order them straight from velocity they build a fantastic, incredibly durable wheel. Tim buaidh no bas

Response:

Some compain they wobble at high speeds.  Just wht you don’t want in a decent.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability. — Marc

Response:

Had a pair of Vector Comps for a year. Hit 50+ miles an hour without wobble. No play, no creaks – happy with them – and bullet proof – they have handled London roads without trouble so far. Don’t bother with standard Vectors – cheap hubs and no real gain over a more common wheel config like open Pros on a 105 hub.  Friend has Vector Pros and he hasn’t had any hassle with them either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some compain they wobble at high speeds.  Just wht you don’t want in a decent. These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability. — Marc

Response:

Never heard anything good about them.  Had a loaner pair for a week (brand new)  They creaked, they had play in the hub out of the box and went out of true by the end of the week, was glad to return them.  For a good, cheap wheelset try velocity deep v’s with dura-ace hubs, have your lbs order them straight from velocity they build a fantastic, incredibly durable wheel.

Hmm.  Not my experience at all. I have a pair of the Pro’s and although I only did ~2000km on them last year I did go through a variety of roads and rough roads, the rim has two deep gouges from dropping into a sewer grate, and they’re still true.  I even hit train tracks hard enough one day to lose the glued crest on my Litespeed.  Admittedly, not a lot of mileage but it got me through IMC fine as well. One thing I’m concerned about is when the wheels get older.  A broken spoke can be catastrophic since I won’t be able to fix it easily. arthur — Unix doesn’t have a monopoly on good ideas, it just owns most of them.     – Alan Cox (http://slashdot.org/features/99/03/04/121242.shtml) Arthur Tateishi

Response:

Had a pair of Vector Comps for a year. Hit 50+ miles an hour without wobble. No play, no creaks – happy with them – and bullet proof – they have handled London roads without trouble so far.

Same here, three years.  They’ve been fine.  That said, I didn’t pay any more for them than for any good entry level wheel.  Like Oakley’s, they’re a nicely made product, but not worth anything near the hyped up market price.

Response:

These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability.

I’ve had a pair of the vector pros for 3 years now with moderate use, and no problems at all. very happy with them. that being said, there is nothing special about them either, and there are more affordable options that are just as light/aero/durable, so i probably would not buy them now (at least not new). buying them used all depends on the price i have no experience with the vectors or vector comps, but my comments about better options elsewhere would probably be even more so for those.

Response:

My brother and I have Vector Pro’s and though they’re not the lightest wheel going they seem pretty much bomb proof… still true after 12-15,000 km – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability. — Marc

Response:

I only have good things to say. I’ve had a set of the Vectors for about a year and half, used them for training only.  They are still true, and the hubs are still rolling along just fine.  Great cheap wheelset.

Response:

My Lemond came with Vector Comps and, for the past 18 months, they have been bomb proof.  I am no lightweight and these things have stayed true through some not so perfect conditions. just my 02 cents, mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and I have Vector Pro’s and though they’re not the lightest wheel going they seem pretty much bomb proof… still true after 12-15,000 km Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon These are popular wheels, so I’m assuming there is a lot of experience out there.  I’m looking at buying a pair second hand, however I’ve seen a few unfavorable remarks regarding these wheels on the internet lately and in a book on wheel building.  Anyone have personal experience to share before I buy these? good or bad?  thanks.  Most of the issues had to do with wheel durability. — Marc

Response:

I only have good things to say. I’ve had a set of the Vectors for about a year and half, used them for training only.  They are still true, and the hubs are still rolling along just fine.  Great cheap wheelset.

sam www.sambean.com

Response:

Vector pros, new on a new bike last year. About 2 months, needed truing before race, luckily the on-site shop had the special tool required.  Was told Rolf expects mechanics to be certified to work on these wheels before making this tool available. 1 month later rear hub developed a catastrophic failure – enormous crack at the flange, about 1/3 across the hub body (send me email if you want to see photos). Thankfully I found it during a pre-ride check, would have been nasty to have that let go on a fast descent. LBS where I bought the bike replaced the wheel immediately. While there I bought some standard Shimano/Mavic wheels for training, now save the Pros for race day and hilly training. The difference in weight and handling between the Pros and the std wheels is dramatic.  So I still think they’re a great wheel but I check them thoroughly before each ride. Cheers S. Austin

Response:

Question:

Sam, thanks for your response! It’s a seriously interesting discussion!! When plugging my numbers into your formula below, I get about 60.6 ml/kg/min (running pace: about 3:30 per km, ie. flat out for me). 60.6 may be more realistic for me, because I am no where near the top athletes (yet?) but am still very fit for me. Perhaps, as you suggested at the end, altitude does play a part in the S710 VO2max calculation. (I live at 1500m, ie. quite high). By the way, having clocked 70 ml/kg/min on the treadmill, what is your Polar VO2 max reading?

        That 70 was several years ago when I was 6 years younger, much more active and weighed 15 pounds less than I do now, and at 300m (BTW, I live at 1860m so I gotcha beat there!).   I hope to do a VO2max test next week to verify a couple of things (I have not done one in a while).  I plan to do the Polar test the same morning. Well, best I start working on the other things like economy, lactate threshold, etc. (Some better genes would have been useful too!!)

        I keep a close eye on the genetics advances to see what I can get. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, Barry. Ben (a response) sends you to an excellent website. First, I am not confident of Polar’s ability to measure VO2max while you are sitting.  I have read some of the papers Polar puts forth to support its fitness test and am still not convinced (it takes me a while).  Any formula (even those derived from field tests) make assumptions that might not be true about you.  For me, I would at least do a simple field test if you are up to it.  This takes advantage of Veronique Billat’s 6 minute run test. Run as far as you can in 6 minutes, preferably on a track.  Convert the distance covered to an average pace (X meters/6 min).  Using the ACSM formula (which probably overestimates VO2max in very fit people) VO2 =  3.5 + V *0.2,  where V is velocity in m/min. So if you run 1200m in 6 min (200m/min), you get VO2 = 3.5 + (200*0.2) or 43.5 ml/kg/min Again, this formula makes some assumptions as well and was developed from a less fit population, but I found it to be pretty accurate for me (I actually have done many field tests and the tested myself on a metabolic cart). The 6 min run time might underestimate slightly and is dependent on motivation. There might be better formulae and once I get the home office organized I will look for some of the other field tests and formulae to go with them. As far as performance goes, VO2max is an important element since that is the size of the engine and endurance athletes typically have a big, big engine (in that 70 ml/kg/min neighborhood) but it is not the entire story. The pace or power output at VO2max is also important;  not just the speed or power attained at the end of the test but also the minimum speed or power required to elicit VO2max. Another important component in the performance package is economy or how much oxygen it takes to produce a given power or speed.  The trainability here is probably smaller than in other areas.  Steve Prefontaine, while having one of the highest values I have ever seen reported had lousy economy.  It took him more oxygen to run at 6 min/mile pace than any of the other elite males studied at the time. Yet another factor and the most trainable is speed or power at lactate threshold.  This factor is highly predictive of endurance performance and the improvements within a year from beginning a macrocycle to peak can be very large if training is done properly. As for being "maxed" out, one can never really know.  Could you have squeezed out a few more ml’s?  Maybe, maybe not.  The only thing one can do is to train optimally to improve VO2max, economy and LT factors. I have broken 70 ml/kg/min a couple of times on a treadmill test but I never really was able to turn that into anything (I also take standardized tests really well) since my speed at LT was always lower than we thought it should be.  Of course, I did not learn all this until later in life.  So a high VO2max does not mean that you are a superstar waiting to happen. Then there is Derek Clayton who had one of the lowest VO2max readings I have ever seen reported (I swear something had to be wrong with the machinery in that lab), but he had the ability to run at a high % of VO2max and was very economical.  Those had to have helped him (IMHO) become a world class distance runner. I have the Polar S710.  Perhaps if I can get into the lab and get a VO2max test done, I will do a one person validation.  I wonder how living at moderate altitude messes up the Polar algorithm?????? I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

Sam, thanks for your response! It’s a seriously interesting discussion!! When plugging my numbers into your formula below, I get about 60.6 ml/kg/min (running pace: about 3:30 per km, ie. flat out for me). 60.6 may be more realistic for me, because I am no where near the top athletes (yet?) but am still very fit for me. Perhaps, as you suggested at the end, altitude does play a part in the S710 VO2max calculation. (I live at 1500m, ie. quite high). By the way, having clocked 70 ml/kg/min on the treadmill, what is your Polar VO2 max reading? Well, best I start working on the other things like economy, lactate threshold, etc. (Some better genes would have been useful too!!) Cheers, Barry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ben (a response) sends you to an excellent website. First, I am not confident of Polar’s ability to measure VO2max while you are sitting.  I have read some of the papers Polar puts forth to support its fitness test and am still not convinced (it takes me a while).  Any formula (even those derived from field tests) make assumptions that might not be true about you.  For me, I would at least do a simple field test if you are up to it.  This takes advantage of Veronique Billat’s 6 minute run test. Run as far as you can in 6 minutes, preferably on a track.  Convert the distance covered to an average pace (X meters/6 min).  Using the ACSM formula (which probably overestimates VO2max in very fit people) VO2 =  3.5 + V *0.2,  where V is velocity in m/min. So if you run 1200m in 6 min (200m/min), you get VO2 = 3.5 + (200*0.2) or 43.5 ml/kg/min Again, this formula makes some assumptions as well and was developed from a less fit population, but I found it to be pretty accurate for me (I actually have done many field tests and the tested myself on a metabolic cart). The 6 min run time might underestimate slightly and is dependent on motivation. There might be better formulae and once I get the home office organized I will look for some of the other field tests and formulae to go with them. As far as performance goes, VO2max is an important element since that is the size of the engine and endurance athletes typically have a big, big engine (in that 70 ml/kg/min neighborhood) but it is not the entire story.  The pace or power output at VO2max is also important;  not just the speed or power attained at the end of the test but also the minimum speed or power required to elicit VO2max. Another important component in the performance package is economy or how much oxygen it takes to produce a given power or speed.  The trainability here is probably smaller than in other areas.  Steve Prefontaine, while having one of the highest values I have ever seen reported had lousy economy.  It took him more oxygen to run at 6 min/mile pace than any of the other elite males studied at the time. Yet another factor and the most trainable is speed or power at lactate threshold.  This factor is highly predictive of endurance performance and the improvements within a year from beginning a macrocycle to peak can be very large if training is done properly. As for being "maxed" out, one can never really know.  Could you have squeezed out a few more ml’s?  Maybe, maybe not.  The only thing one can do is to train optimally to improve VO2max, economy and LT factors. I have broken 70 ml/kg/min a couple of times on a treadmill test but I never really was able to turn that into anything (I also take standardized tests really well) since my speed at LT was always lower than we thought it should be.  Of course, I did not learn all this until later in life.  So a high VO2max does not mean that you are a superstar waiting to happen. Then there is Derek Clayton who had one of the lowest VO2max readings I have ever seen reported (I swear something had to be wrong with the machinery in that lab), but he had the ability to run at a high % of VO2max and was very economical.  Those had to have helped him (IMHO) become a world class distance runner. I have the Polar S710.  Perhaps if I can get into the lab and get a VO2max test done, I will do a one person validation.  I wonder how living at moderate altitude messes up the Polar algorithm?????? I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

Ben (a response) sends you to an excellent website. First, I am not confident of Polar’s ability to measure VO2max while you are sitting.  I have read some of the papers Polar puts forth to support its fitness test and am still not convinced (it takes me a while).  Any formula (even those derived from field tests) make assumptions that might not be true about you.  For me, I would at least do a simple field test if you are up to it.  This takes advantage of Veronique Billat’s 6 minute run test. Run as far as you can in 6 minutes, preferably on a track.  Convert the distance covered to an average pace (X meters/6 min).  Using the ACSM formula (which probably overestimates VO2max in very fit people) VO2 =  3.5 + V *0.2,  where V is velocity in m/min. So if you run 1200m in 6 min (200m/min), you get VO2 = 3.5 + (200*0.2) or 43.5 ml/kg/min Again, this formula makes some assumptions as well and was developed from a less fit population, but I found it to be pretty accurate for me (I actually have done many field tests and the tested myself on a metabolic cart).   The 6 min run time might underestimate slightly and is dependent on motivation. There might be better formulae and once I get the home office organized I will look for some of the other field tests and formulae to go with them. As far as performance goes, VO2max is an important element since that is the size of the engine and endurance athletes typically have a big, big engine (in that 70 ml/kg/min neighborhood) but it is not the entire story.  The pace or power output at VO2max is also important;  not just the speed or power attained at the end of the test but also the minimum speed or power required to elicit VO2max. Another important component in the performance package is economy or how much oxygen it takes to produce a given power or speed.  The trainability here is probably smaller than in other areas.  Steve Prefontaine, while having one of the highest values I have ever seen reported had lousy economy.  It took him more oxygen to run at 6 min/mile pace than any of the other elite males studied at the time. Yet another factor and the most trainable is speed or power at lactate threshold.  This factor is highly predictive of endurance performance and the improvements within a year from beginning a macrocycle to peak can be very large if training is done properly. As for being "maxed" out, one can never really know.  Could you have squeezed out a few more ml’s?  Maybe, maybe not.  The only thing one can do is to train optimally to improve VO2max, economy and LT factors. I have broken 70 ml/kg/min a couple of times on a treadmill test but I never really was able to turn that into anything (I also take standardized tests really well) since my speed at LT was always lower than we thought it should be.  Of course, I did not learn all this until later in life.  So a high VO2max does not mean that you are a superstar waiting to happen. Then there is Derek Clayton who had one of the lowest VO2max readings I have ever seen reported (I swear something had to be wrong with the machinery in that lab), but he had the ability to run at a high % of VO2max and was very economical.  Those had to have helped him (IMHO) become a world class distance runner. I have the Polar S710.  Perhaps if I can get into the lab and get a VO2max test done, I will do a one person validation.  I wonder how living at moderate altitude messes up the Polar algorithm??????

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

try this web site for some good info http://home.hia.no/~stephens/ Ben Reuter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

I recently bought a Polar S710 that has a fitness test on it. The fitness test measures your VO2 Max as well as your hypothetical maximum heart rate. I don’t know how it does it, you just sit there for about 5 minutes while it reads your heart rate and then tells you how fit you are when you compare the VO2 Max reading to the table in the Polar instruction manual. Well I did it 3 times on different occasions, twice sitting at my desk and once lying down. I got readings of 69, 71 and 71 again, which means I am pretty darn fit! Looking at the tables, anything over 59 for males aged 25-29 is "Excellent" (45 being about average for males that age).  At first I thought: COOL!!! I’m seriously fit!! (I am fit at the moment: I just broke 3 hours for a marathon last week for only the 2nd time!). But then, thinking about it, it came to me:  What if I can’t get any better? Is this the best and fastest I’ll ever be?  Is there absolutely no chance of going under 2:00 for an Olympic distance triathlon? (My best is 2:08 going flat-out, where I was only 4th in my AG). Can I never be in the ranks of the Elite who are doing times of 1:50 for that distance? So I’ve got a high VO2 Max. So what! What would it take for me to somehow push my VO2 Max up into the 80’s to win AG categories or race with the Elite? Is it possible? Now I’m not getting too hit-up about this train of thought. I still love my triathlons and running and stuff like that.  I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about VO2 Max.  What is the average VO2 Max of Elite triathletes?  Are there any Elite athletes who have a substantially lower VO2 Max and still compete with the best of them?  In that case, not much can be read into the VO2 Max fitness measure, except for the fact that it tells you that you’re fitter than the average couch potato who watches football all day! Big deal!! Any thoughts? Barry.

Response:

Question:

Could that explain it?    And, does anyone alter their saddle position to compensate for this?  Perhaps tilting it down?

Riding on the nose of the saddle can cause the discomfort you describe.  Your butt should rest on the wide part of the saddle and there should be minimal pressure from the nose of the saddle on your crotch area.  Achieving this requires some fiddling with seat adjustments and maybe a different seat post. Larry

Response:

I just got aero bars.  Wow, what a difference.  I love them. However…  For the first time ever I experience what I have heard other men talk about and that is numbness in the genitals.

Are you on a road bike? It seems that your aero bars could be a bit too long and you’re stretched out in an extended position and therefore moving too far forward on the seat. . This will happen if you are using aerobars that are designed for tri bikes as they tend to be longer than should be used on a road bike. To understand this go to this site and read the technical articles under the big slam position.http://www.bicyclesports.com/accessories/aerobars/slambars.html  On some road bikes another alternative is to turn the seat post around to move the saddle forward. The only problem with this is that you then usually have a badly handling bike. Sitting for long hours on a bike seat will effect some guys this way but not others. You can  buy saddles that have cut outs to take pressure of the pudendal nerve. This is the nerve that supplies the male genitals. This is what gets sat on on a bike saddle and can cause numbness for some.

Response:

Thanks for the good advice.  I went to my LBS last night and a guy who really knows what he is doing helped me out.  We moved the aerobars slightly and moved the saddle forward.   Seems better.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got aero bars.  Wow, what a difference.  I love them. However…  For the first time ever I experience what I have heard other men talk about and that is numbness in the genitals. Are you on a road bike? It seems that your aero bars could be a bit too long and you’re stretched out in an extended position and therefore moving too far forward on the seat. . This will happen if you are using aerobars that are designed for tri bikes as they tend to be longer than should be used on a road bike. To understand this go to this site and read the technical articles under the big slam position.http://www.bicyclesports.com/accessories/aerobars/slambars.html On some road bikes another alternative is to turn the seat post around to move the saddle forward. The only problem with this is that you then usually have a badly handling bike. Sitting for long hours on a bike seat will effect some guys this way but not others. You can  buy saddles that have cut outs to take pressure of the pudendal nerve. This is the nerve that supplies the male genitals. This is what gets sat on on a bike saddle and can cause numbness for some.

Response:

I just got aero bars.  Wow, what a difference.  I love them. However…  For the first time ever I experience what I have heard other men talk about and that is numbness in the genitals. One thing I noticed is that, using the aero bars, I am in a down position for a longer period of time now.  Consequently, I spend more time in a more forward position on the saddle. Could that explain it?    And, does anyone alter their saddle position to compensate for this?  Perhaps tilting it down?

Response:

I strongly urge you to find a shop near you that specializes in tri setups (assuming that is what you are doing).  Placing aero bars on a road bike can potentially stretch you out, causing the problem you describe, as well as a loss of leg power.  There’s ways to correct this including changing your seatpost to give you a more forward position.  A knowledgable tri-shop can help you out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got aero bars.  Wow, what a difference.  I love them. However…  For the first time ever I experience what I have heard other men talk about and that is numbness in the genitals. One thing I noticed is that, using the aero bars, I am in a down position for a longer period of time now.  Consequently, I spend more time in a more forward position on the saddle. Could that explain it?    And, does anyone alter their saddle position to compensate for this?  Perhaps tilting it down?

Response:

I second that. There are all kinds of things you could do, but the best advice will be from a knowledgeable bike shop employee who understands triathlon/time trial configuration. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I strongly urge you to find a shop near you that specializes in tri setups (assuming that is what you are doing).  Placing aero bars on a road bike can potentially stretch you out, causing the problem you describe, as well as a loss of leg power.  There’s ways to correct this including changing your seatpost to give you a more forward position.  A knowledgable tri-shop can help you out. I just got aero bars.  Wow, what a difference.  I love them. However…  For the first time ever I experience what I have heard other men talk about and that is numbness in the genitals. One thing I noticed is that, using the aero bars, I am in a down position for a longer period of time now.  Consequently, I spend more time in a more forward position on the saddle. Could that explain it?    And, does anyone alter their saddle position to compensate for this?  Perhaps tilting it down?

Response:

Question:

Another question is, if most (an assumption on my part) of the members of the Tri Fed dislike these changes to OUR sport, why is there not a bigger protest from our reps?  

It’s quite simple:  $$$$.  Olympic $$$$.  The sport wants $$$ from the USOC?  It’s gotta field Olympic athletes.  Olympic triathlon is under the auspices of the ITU.  Want your athletes to compete in the Olympics? Gotta do it the ITU’s way.  No two ways about it.  $$$$$.  It’s all about $$$$. Ugly, isn’t it?   Aside from their silly bike rules (which actually make sense within the context of the ITU’s bastardized form of triathlon), does anyone else’s stomach turn at the sight of a field of professional triathletes all dressed in identical uniforms?  Is this an ITU thing or is it a St. Geroge’s Bank/Formula One thing only?  I know the ITU has race clothing rules, but I’m not clear on whether those uniforms are ITU or Formula One. You WILL conform! =shudder= — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

Another question is, if most (an assumption on my part) of the members of the Tri Fed dislike these changes to OUR sport, why is there not a bigger protest from our reps?  and don’t give  me that"it doesn’t effect age groupers" crap because I can quote fables upon fabels about that legendary slippery slope. Opinions please

there two overriding reasons why trifed doesn’t put up a fuss.  first, most of its funding now comes from the USOC, and this funding depends on a national governing body that is geared toward world championship and olympic development.  second, the only way trifed can get this money, and can keep another governing body in the US from getting it, is to be THE daughter federation, in good standing, of the world governing body (the ITU).   trifed has gone up against the ITU before, and has gotten their arse handed to them.  trifed has learned its lesson, that you behave, and you fall in line with the world governing body. personally, i think trifed should behave.  i don’t think they should put up a stink.  i think they should foster olympic development, and i think they should be behind everything the ITU wants to do.  furthermore, i don’t blame the ITU for doing everything they do.  it’s fine with me. the group i blame is all you people.  for probably a decade i’ve been crowing that there ought to be a separate organization for age group racing, a separate world championships, etc.  it’s been well demonstrated, in other sports, and in this sport, that the olympic movement is going one way, and all age group racing goes another.  they have separate world master’s championships in cycling, and in swimming, not held at the same time and in the same venue the world governing bodies have their championships.  the two agendas are not compatible.   so this comes up again and again, and you all crow as if you’ve been wronged every time a new ruling comes down the pike.  you’r cohabitating with a wolf.  there is nothing wrong with wolves.  but you can’t continue to be upset if the wolf reaches over at the dinner table and takes a bite out of your arm instead of what’s on his plate.  that’s what wolves do. the wolf has moved into your house.  i suggest you consider moving out. but you probably won’t.   you’ll continue to go to trifed’s national championship to try to qualify for the ITU’s world championship.  you can’t and won’t change the ITU’s agenda.  they are not answerable to you.  they’re not going to listen to you.  they don’t need you, except in this one particular sense, that the ITU worlds CURRENTLY needs your money to help bulk out the expenses an RD has to pay in order to host a world pro championships.  if & when this sport gets big enough on the pro side not to need your entry fees anymore, you’ll get spit out the back so fast you’ll get whiplash.  and then you’ll have NO national OR world championship.  so i think you all ought to consider having a separate national and world championships for masters, not affiliated or answerable to olympic development governing bodies.  or at a minimum, on the domestic side, you ought to DEMAND that trifed execute a demonstrable split between funding, staff, and programs for age group vs olympic racing.  but you probably won’t. qrman

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Taken off the Official ITU website – http://www.triathlon.worldsport.com/Newsletter/99/update25_5.html#rule : THE ITU TECHNICAL COMMITTEE TO PROPOSE COMPLIANCE WITH BIKE FRAME RULE Discussions between the ITU Technical Committee and officials of the Union Cyclisme Internationale (UCI) the world governing body for cycling, will lead to the implementation of frame specification in ITU events as early as January 1, 2000. The most significant specification, which addresses the frame design is found in Chapter III: Equipment, Section 1.3.020 of UCI rules. For road races and cyclo-cross events, the frame of the bicycle shall be of a traditional pattern, i.e., built around a main triangle. It shall be constructed of straight or tapered tubular elements (which may be round, oval, flattened, teardrop shaped or otherwise in cross-section); the centre line of each element shall always be straight. The elements of the frame shall be laid out such that the joining points shall follow the following pattern: the top tube (1) connects the top of the head tube (2) to the top of the seat tube (4); the seat tube (from which the seatpin shall extend) shall connect to the bottom bracket shell; the down tube (3) shall connect the bottom bracket shell to the bottom of the head tube. The rear triangles shall be formed by the chain stays (6), the seatstays (5) and the seat tube (4). The maximum height of the elements shall be 8 cm and the minimum width 2.5 cm. The minimum width shall be reduced to 1 cm for the chainstays (6) and the seatstays (5). The minimum thickness of the elements of the front fork shall be 1 cm. These may be straight or curved (7). The top tube may slope, provided that it fits within a template defined by the maximum height of 8 cm and the minimum thickness of 2.5 cm. "Road races" is taken here to include all races on the road with the exception of individual time trials and time trials for teams of up to four riders. This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes trying to qualify for the Olympic Games, Sydney 2000 should be taking the necessary steps to ensure their bicycle complies with this rule well in advance of the January 1 2000 deadline. —-end of press release.

All I have to say is BULLSH*T!!!!! This is TRIATHLON not the Tour De France!!! Why would we want to follow the UCI??? Lets just take one giant step backwards. DRAFTING SUCKS…JUST SAY NO!!!       B.Oliver

Response:

Bloody hell, I go away (off RST) for what seems like a year,
and come back to the same old ITU crap and interference !!
This long slippery slope started a long time ago, and we assured
ourselves that the UCI rules would never affect triathlon. Ha !
Here we go again. OK, true, at this point it sounds like only ITU pros
are affected, and what most of us do is not their loosely-termed ‘triahlon’.
However, it’s another thin end of a very thick wedge.
Hopefully the bike manufacturers that have the triathlon market will continue to
feed it, and they should, realistically, because the pros mainly need a road bike
these days, and there are few enough of them, and a hell of a lot of ‘us’.
Do any of you Euros out there have a feeling for whether Joe average triathlete
at your races are moving away from tri specific bikes back to their ‘old’ road style bikes ?
I just have to hope that ‘true triathlon’ resists this sort of nonsense, as we
have the drafting issue. Strength in numbers. Resist !
Frustration mode off – it’s good to be back.
Cheers
Barry    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser – FREE –

Response:

In article How long do you think the makers will make non-compliant stuff for age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products?

this is not an issue.  we already couldn’t care less if our pros even do ITU races, because it’s not our market. i mean, we don’t mind if they do compete in them, and we provide them bikes that work for ITU races, but we don’t get any benefit out of it.  therefore, speaking for myself and our company, i don’t think this is a concern. but i have a different question, i’ll sort of throw this thinking back at you (all).  you are making the assumption that commercial interests in this sport may succomb to ugly ITU realities, in this "us against them" environment.  but how many of you are going to try to make it to the ITU age group worlds?  the dirty little secret of this sport is that all the age groupers rant and rave against the ITU, and then try like hell to get to their worlds race.   i am therefore surprised that some group of age group contenders, or even one such contender, hasn’t stood up and said, "i can’t in all good conscience patronize ITU age group worlds." qrman

Response:

ll).  you are making the assumption that commercial interests in this sport may succomb to ugly ITU realities, in this "us against them" environment.  but how many of you are going to try to make it to the ITU age group worlds?  the dirty little secret of this sport is that all the age groupers rant and rave against the ITU, and then try like hell to get to their worlds race.   i am therefore surprised that some group of age group contenders, or even one such contender, hasn’t stood up and said, "i can’t in all good conscience patronize ITU age group worlds." qrman

I could care less about Les and his ITU.  I never understood how the ITU achieved it’s authority to make decisions about the sport that changed the very nature of the event.  I will problably never do an ITU event nor care to.  If all the races adopt the drafting and no beambike/ aerobar theme, I will  become a race director and put on triathlons the  old way. Another question is, if most (an assumption on my part) of the members of the Tri Fed dislike these changes to OUR sport, why is there not a bigger protest from our reps?  and don’t give  me that"it doesn’t effect age groupers" crap because I can quote fables upon fabels about that legendary slippery slope. Opinions please toddzi san diego

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article How long do you think the makers will make non-compliant stuff for age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products? this is not an issue.  we already couldn’t care less if our pros even do ITU races, because it’s not our market. i mean, we don’t mind if they do compete in them, and we provide them bikes that work for ITU races, but we don’t get any benefit out of it.  therefore, speaking for myself and our company, i don’t think this is a concern. but i have a different question, i’ll sort of throw this thinking back at you (all).  you are making the assumption that commercial interests in this sport may succomb to ugly ITU realities, in this "us against them" environment.  but how many of you are going to try to make it to the ITU age group worlds?  the dirty little secret of this sport is that all the age groupers rant and rave against the ITU, and then try like hell to get to their worlds race.   i am therefore surprised that some group of age group contenders, or even one such contender, hasn’t stood up and said, "i can’t in all good conscience patronize ITU age group worlds." qrman

I decided recently to skip the qualifier in Clermont because it’s not worth taking 2 days from work when I have no interest in going to ITU Worlds if I got a slot on Team USA. I felt that I had a decent chance to qualify, and hoped to make the trip since the Ironman lottery passed me by again. Then the changes started with Munich backing out. The format in Montreal, from what I’ve read, calls for AGE GROUPERS to compete in a 9 lap bike course on a 2.5 mile ciruit. It sounds like draft legal ITU racing for age groupers is right around the corner, if not here already. Does anyone honestly believe that they will marshall the course and enforce no drafting?  And, as we have seen with the pros, this will make it necessary to have USAT sanction draft legal races and national qualifiers in order to "be competitive in this format". Stupid bike rules would be next. I see changes in the future for our sport. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look good for the purists unless Les and his cronies step down and the ITU actually begins to "represent" the sport rather than "dictate" to it. Cheers, Andrew—see you at USTS-Detroit, Dan — Andrew Peabody/Karen Fisher Coconut Grove, FL

Response:

In article The press release says: This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes ….. Therefore not an issue for age groupers. How long do you think the makers will make non-compliant stuff for age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products? Rick "The other shoe is poised to drop" Denney

Not all pros race ITU.  THANK GOD! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

: age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products? : i am therefore surprised that some group of age group contenders, or even : one such contender, hasn’t stood up and said, "i can’t in all good : conscience patronize ITU age group worlds." – "I can’t in all good conscience, patronize ITU age group worlds".

     There I said it, and it felt great!  In reality, I’ve always      considered ITU rankings as something I choose not to pursue.      ITU worlds IMO, are for those who buy into the ITU format. I’m      not one who buy’s their BS.        It’s analogous to the Coke vs Pepsi, Chevy vs Ford, UNIX or NT      religious wars.  You make a decision to line-up behind one or the      other but not both.  I am firmly in the WTC camp and will remain      WTC as long as I do triathlons.  I will never do an ITU format      race as long as I am competiting. —  - Rich Davisttp://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

Response:

What problem enforcing drafting? Charlie’s crew does an excellent job on enforcing the position rules. As an Official I see much less drafting now than I did a few years ago. As for the ITU adopting the UCI bike specs, it has NO impact on ANY AGE GROUP athlete in the USA. My philosophy has always been that innovation is good for the sport and that is what sets triathlon apart. And as for the cost , well the technology does tend to trickle down. Bike makers need to differentiate themselves and high tech designs used in triathlon are a perfect showcase for them. And I believe that benefits us triathletes. — Bruce Platt Chairman, USA Triathlon Safety & Rules Committee USA Triathlon Cat 1 Official

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Like I’ve said before: Allow drafting, kiss aero bikes goodbye. And the age group exclusion is transitory. We are in full slide down that slippery slope. I think you have a point Rick!!  I have been totally against draft legal races up until recently. This is my first season of Road Racing afetr many years of Tris and Im afraid Im converted. Bikes are getting more hi tech, more exspensive and the sport is becoming more out of reach to the every day age grouper who cant compete against $10000 bikes.  Add to this the problem with enforcing non drafting events and it seems to lead us back toRick’s comment above. 1. Allow drafting in ALL events 2. Make it safe by following the UCI’s bike rules. 3. Keeps costs down 4. Makes the ride more action packed (hopefully) Guess we will never please every one!

Response:

Great point Rick. My first thought was – hmm, just like them grabbing my guns, one little step at a time and nobody will notice. And even better point is that about not sponsoring pros anymore with off geometry frames. However – there may be a hidden light here – maybe Softride will have to sponsor more age groupers! And, um, maybe some of the more, um, vocal ones would get a shot, rather than some of the more, um, faster ones! There’s hope for me yet. And yes, Rick and I are both doing bike checks at Eagleman – no jokes about comparing our toolsets, OK? SchwingDing

s.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The press release says: This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes ….. Therefore not an issue for age groupers. How long do you think the makers will make non-compliant stuff for age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products? Rick "The other shoe is poised to drop" Denney

Response:

Actually, the more interesting question is whether or not the ITU will be persuaded to buy into the UCI’s on-again–off-again rules on time-trial frames.

Not to mention UCI’s on-again-off-again ruling on the small spinaci-style aerobars that are used in the ITU races. This could mean the end of the defining feature of a tri-bike…the clip on aero bar. Eventually they’ll just run a 10k after a swim and an hour on a lifecycle and call it a triathlon. Also…the ruling that the top tube must extend from the head tube to the TOP of the seat tube eliminates nearly all 650c tri bikes, since they all extend the seat tube well above the top tube to keep the front triangle small and the head tube short and low. There goes QR, Cervelo, GT, Griffen, Centurion, Litespeed, Merlin and Felt(already gone) to the scrap heap with Softride, Kestrel, Corima, Hotta, Lotus, and Zipp. I guess it was a good thing to save that rusty old Raleigh Team frame that I have in storage. cheers, Andrew — Andrew Peabody/Karen Fisher Coconut Grove, FL

Response:

I think you have a point Rick!!  I have been totally against draft legal races up until recently.

I think if you go back and read the context, Rick wasn’t citing what he saw as a good thing. This is my first season of Road Racing afetr many years of Tris and Im afraid Im converted. Bikes are getting more hi tech, more exspensive and the sport is becoming more out of reach to the every day age grouper who cant compete against $10000 bikes.  

What a pile of bull!  By limiting aerodynamic improvements, which can often be achieved via less expensive incrememtal upgrades (like a $20 set of aero bars) the only path to greater performance is exotic materials and the kind of subtle changes that only come from huge R&D expenditures.  That will only drive the cost of being competitive up, as any form of regulation does.  Look at the cost of horsepower in performance cars in the age of CAFE standards and ever tightening emissions controls.  Not to say we need more pollution, but the cost of performance IS proportional to the amount of regulatory hoops one must jump through.  Another post pointed out that triathlon has ended years of stagnation in bicycle technology.  Innovation ultimately drives prices down for those willing to ride the backside of the technology wave.  Just look at the prices for the next to newest generation of personal computer hardware.  As manufacturers race to outdo each other, they come up with better stuff each year, and those with the cash buy it, and unload last years techo-marvel at a very attractive price. 1. Allow drafting in ALL events

Right, disreard the fact that triathlon differs from bike racing in that when you get off the bike, it’s not over yet. 2. Make it safe by following the UCI’s bike rules.

Oh, yeah, and no one ever gets hurt in bike racing (anybody see the recent pileup on the news this week?) 3. Keeps costs down

NO! See above. 4. Makes the ride more action packed (hopefully)

If your definition of action is synonymous with carnage, that is.  I suppose you’re one of those people who only watches the Indy 500 in hopes of seeing a really big crash.

Response:

(InfernoTri) writes: Damn, you mean I have to chose between my Softride and the ITU draft-fest. That’ll be such a tough choice. Just one more bad step for triathlon courtesy of Uncle Less. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club

The press release says: This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes …..

Therefore not an issue for age groupers.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taken off the Official ITU website – http://www.triathlon.worldsport.com/Newsletter/99/update25_5.html#rule : THE ITU TECHNICAL COMMITTEE TO PROPOSE COMPLIANCE WITH BIKE FRAME RULE Discussions between the ITU Technical Committee and officials of the Union Cyclisme Internationale (UCI) the world governing body for cycling, will lead to the implementation of frame specification in ITU events as early as January 1, 2000. The most significant specification, which addresses the frame design is found in Chapter III: Equipment, Section 1.3.020 of UCI rules. For road races and cyclo-cross events, the frame of the bicycle shall be of a traditional pattern, i.e., built around a main triangle. It shall be constructed of straight or tapered tubular elements (which may be round, oval, flattened, teardrop shaped or otherwise in cross-section); the centre line of each element shall always be straight.

So, how does triathlon constitute a road race or cyclocross event? The elements of the frame shall be laid out such that the joining points shall follow the following pattern: the top tube (1) connects the top of the head tube (2) to the top of the seat tube (4); the seat tube (from which the seatpin shall extend) shall connect to the bottom bracket shell; the down tube (3) shall connect the bottom bracket shell to the bottom of the head tube. The rear triangles shall be formed by the chain stays (6), the seatstays (5) and the seat tube (4).

Sayonara Softride, Kestrel, Zipp (though they were gone anyway because), and other innovators. The maximum height of the elements shall be 8 cm and the minimum width 2.5 cm. The minimum width shall be reduced to 1 cm for the chainstays (6) and the seatstays (5). The minimum thickness of the elements of the front fork shall be 1 cm. These may be straight or curved (7).

Sayonara Cervelo and other blade-tube bikes. The top tube may slope, provided that it fits within a template defined by the maximum height of 8 cm and the minimum thickness of 2.5 cm. "Road races" is taken here to include all races on the road with the exception of individual time trials and time trials for teams of up to four riders.

So, how does this apply to triathlon? This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes trying to qualify for the Olympic Games, Sydney 2000 should be taking the necessary steps to ensure their bicycle complies with this rule well in advance of the January 1 2000 deadline.

Like I’ve said before: Allow drafting, kiss aero bikes goodbye. And the age group exclusion is transitory. We are in full slide down that slippery slope. Rick "Waiting for the rule that precludes the forward position" Denney

Response:

The press release says: This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes ….. Therefore not an issue for age groupers.

How long do you think the makers will make non-compliant stuff for age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products? Rick "The other shoe is poised to drop" Denney

Response:

As for my opinions on this, I think triathlon lost another unique identifying feature in the pro ranks. The cutting edge bikes and new age equipment are unique to triathlon. It’s probably safe to say that technology was stagnent in the bicycle industry until triathlon came around. Now why do they want to go back?                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

I will NEVER agree with that. There is NO WAY I will ever see it as reasonable that I allow someone to suck my wheel for 180km so that they can start the marathon fresher than me. Who knows… perhaps the rumors of the UCI implementing rules to limit the designs of time-trial bikes might be able to address the issue of escalating costs, provided that they can accommodate all existing "production" bikes… — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Like I’ve said before: Allow drafting, kiss aero bikes goodbye. And the age group exclusion is transitory. We are in full slide down that slippery slope. I think you have a point Rick!!  I have been totally against draft legal races up until recently. This is my first season of Road Racing afetr many years of Tris and Im afraid Im converted. Bikes are getting more hi tech, more exspensive and the sport is becoming more out of reach to the every day age grouper who cant compete against $10000 bikes.  Add to this the problem with enforcing non drafting events and it seems to lead us back toRick’s comment above. 1. Allow drafting in ALL events 2. Make it safe by following the UCI’s bike rules. 3. Keeps costs down 4. Makes the ride more action packed (hopefully) Guess we will never please every one!

Response:

How long do you think the makers will make non-compliant stuff for age-groupers if they can’t wrap sponsored pros around their products?

Maybe… though in all honesty I suspect you are giving the ITU races far more credit for pull-through marketing power, than they deserve. I’d be hard pressed to recall the last time I saw a Softride used in one of these ITU events… and yet they are still selling plenty of them… and in no small way, due to the fact that most triathletes know that Jurgen rides one… in a real race. — MB.

Response:

The maximum height of the elements shall be 8 cm and the minimum width 2.5 cm. The minimum width shall be reduced to 1 cm for the chainstays (6) and the seatstays (5). The minimum thickness of the elements of the front fork shall be1 cm. These may be straight or curved (7). Sayonara Cervelo and other blade-tube bikes.

Actually… I think you’ll find the Cervelo meets these specs. According to my dial-caliper… the aero tubes are 7.5cm x 3cm Also, the profile forks are 1.5cm thick. Of course, this is assuming that the "minimum width" of a tube, means somthing along the lines of the minimum reading of the maximum width… minimum width of a tube seems like a fairly ambiguous term to me. Neverthless… I agree with all the sentiments. — MB.

Response:

   Like I’ve said before: Allow drafting, kiss aero bikes goodbye. And the age group exclusion is transitory. We are in full slide down that slippery slope.

I think you have a point Rick!!  I have been totally against draft legal races up until recently. This is my first season of Road Racing afetr many years of Tris and Im afraid Im converted. Bikes are getting more hi tech, more exspensive and the sport is becoming more out of reach to the every day age grouper who cant compete against $10000 bikes.  Add to this the problem with enforcing non drafting events and it seems to lead us back toRick’s comment above. 1. Allow drafting in ALL events 2. Make it safe by following the UCI’s bike rules. 3. Keeps costs down 4. Makes the ride more action packed (hopefully) Guess we will never please every one!

Response:

Actually, the more interesting question is whether or not the ITU will be persuaded to buy into the UCI’s on-again–off-again rules on time-trial frames. Only draft-legal elite races are covered by this new rule — presumably because the bike section is not viewed as being the equivalent of a time-trial, but akin to a criterium, and hence subject to "road race" rules. But if the UCI implements rules on time-trial bikes, will the ITU feel bound to apply them to draft-illegal races ??? Anyone know what the deal is with the UCI on this ?? — MB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, you mean I have to chose between my Softride and the ITU draft-fest. That’ll be such a tough choice. Just one more bad step for triathlon courtesy of Uncle Less. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

Damn, you mean I have to chose between my Softride and the ITU draft-fest. That’ll be such a tough choice. Just one more bad step for triathlon courtesy of Uncle Less. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

Taken off the Official ITU website – http://www.triathlon.worldsport.com/Newsletter/99/update25_5.html#rule : THE ITU TECHNICAL COMMITTEE TO PROPOSE COMPLIANCE WITH BIKE FRAME RULE Discussions between the ITU Technical Committee and officials of the Union Cyclisme Internationale (UCI) the world governing body for cycling, will lead to the implementation of frame specification in ITU events as early as January 1, 2000. The most significant specification, which addresses the frame design is found in Chapter III: Equipment, Section 1.3.020 of UCI rules. For road races and cyclo-cross events, the frame of the bicycle shall be of a traditional pattern, i.e., built around a main triangle. It shall be constructed of straight or tapered tubular elements (which may be round, oval, flattened, teardrop shaped or otherwise in cross-section); the centre line of each element shall always be straight. The elements of the frame shall be laid out such that the joining points shall follow the following pattern: the top tube (1) connects the top of the head tube (2) to the top of the seat tube (4); the seat tube (from which the seatpin shall extend) shall connect to the bottom bracket shell; the down tube (3) shall connect the bottom bracket shell to the bottom of the head tube. The rear triangles shall be formed by the chain stays (6), the seatstays (5) and the seat tube (4). The maximum height of the elements shall be 8 cm and the minimum width 2.5 cm. The minimum width shall be reduced to 1 cm for the chainstays (6) and the seatstays (5). The minimum thickness of the elements of the front fork shall be 1 cm. These may be straight or curved (7). The top tube may slope, provided that it fits within a template defined by the maximum height of 8 cm and the minimum thickness of 2.5 cm. "Road races" is taken here to include all races on the road with the exception of individual time trials and time trials for teams of up to four riders. This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes trying to qualify for the Olympic Games, Sydney 2000 should be taking the necessary steps to ensure their bicycle complies with this rule well in advance of the January 1 2000 deadline. —-end of press release.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

I was just about to purchase a new Softride.  Why would anyone care if I ride a Softride or a traditional frame bike?  What are the implications for riders w/Softride already?  I don’t follow tri-politics at all, can someone offer a synopsis of this? Thanks, Brian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taken off the Official ITU website – http://www.triathlon.worldsport.com/Newsletter/99/update25_5.html#rule : THE ITU TECHNICAL COMMITTEE TO PROPOSE COMPLIANCE WITH BIKE FRAME RULE Discussions between the ITU Technical Committee and officials of the Union Cyclisme Internationale (UCI) the world governing body for cycling, will lead to the implementation of frame specification in ITU events as early as January 1, 2000. The most significant specification, which addresses the frame design is found in Chapter III: Equipment, Section 1.3.020 of UCI rules. For road races and cyclo-cross events, the frame of the bicycle shall be of a traditional pattern, i.e., built around a main triangle. It shall be constructed of straight or tapered tubular elements (which may be round, oval, flattened, teardrop shaped or otherwise in cross-section); the centre line of each element shall always be straight. The elements of the frame shall be laid out such that the joining points shall follow the following pattern: the top tube (1) connects the top of the head tube (2) to the top of the seat tube (4); the seat tube (from which the seatpin shall extend) shall connect to the bottom bracket shell; the down tube (3) shall connect the bottom bracket shell to the bottom of the head tube. The rear triangles shall be formed by the chain stays (6), the seatstays (5) and the seat tube (4). The maximum height of the elements shall be 8 cm and the minimum width 2.5 cm. The minimum width shall be reduced to 1 cm for the chainstays (6) and the seatstays (5). The minimum thickness of the elements of the front fork shall be 1 cm. These may be straight or curved (7). The top tube may slope, provided that it fits within a template defined by the maximum height of 8 cm and the minimum thickness of 2.5 cm. "Road races" is taken here to include all races on the road with the exception of individual time trials and time trials for teams of up to four riders. This rule will not be applied to elite competitions in Long Distance Competition or the any age group competition. Athletes trying to qualify for the Olympic Games, Sydney 2000 should be taking the necessary steps to ensure their bicycle complies with this rule well in advance of the January 1 2000 deadline. —-end of press release.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Question:

I know I saw a posting here for jerseys at the IRONMAN ultras.  What about jerseys for half IRONMAN’s?  One for the Gulf Coast triathlon perhaps?  I’d buy one if its not too expensive.  Thanks

Response:

Hate to just post "me too", but…me too! <grin I’m always looking for a nice new jersey (preferably one that isn’t south of New York) to add to my collection. Aloha, — -Ben- http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I saw a posting here for jerseys at the IRONMAN ultras.  What about jerseys for half IRONMAN’s?  One for the Gulf Coast triathlon perhaps?  I’d buy one if its not too expensive.  Thanks

Response:

"me too"

Response:

We will be at the Gulf Coast Triathlon and be set up at the expo. If you are interested in having jerseys/singlets/shirts or whatever, I am willing to take care of having them made but this would be on a pre-paid order (after the details are settled). If you will email and let me know what you want, and perhaps some creative RSTer can come up with a logo/design. Give me some input. We have about one month to put this together. If we get a design and I get the costs together, I will post them on our website and take orders. If not enough orders come in, then we drop the whole thing. Let me know, I will check it out. For now, just email with the interest, the ideas and what you would like to see. This is not an "ad" or a business venture. I am just will to do this and since we will be set up at the expo and I have to be there all the time, this could work out. I am just willing to do this for those that are interested. thanks, Diane Tarver http://Tri-Specialties.com I know I saw a posting here for jerseys at the IRONMAN ultras.  What about jerseys for half IRONMAN’s?  One for the Gulf Coast triathlon perhaps?  I’d buy one if its not too expensive.  Thanks

Response:

I have had several email responses, some with ideas. We are setting up at the expo with our tri-business. We sell Ironman Wetsuits, Quintana Roo, Softrides, and whatever tri-related accessories will fit in the trailer. We try to have reasonable prices. I have been adding the items that we sell to our online shopping cart. So, since I will be set up anyways, it will be a good way to distribute the shirts. thanks, Diane Tarver http://Tri-Specialties.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is very nice of you to be willing to do so.  I only saw 2 postings thus far. Mine and one other.   One month is not very long to get enough responses. Idea would be with Rec.Sport.Triathlon on the Jersey with RST’rs somewhere else. Acknowledgement of the race or flashy graphics on a coolmax jersey or zip bike jersey.  Bright colors using purple hues, mandarins,  black, white, slate blues, Sea greens perhaps.  Just an idea. What will you be selling at the expo?  Will your prices be reasonable? We will be at the Gulf Coast Triathlon and be set up at the expo. If you are interested in having jerseys/singlets/shirts or whatever, I am willing to take care of having them made but this would be on a pre-paid order (after the details are settled). If you will email and let me know what you want, and perhaps some creative RSTer can come up with a logo/design. Give me some input. We have about one month to put this together. If we get a design and I get the costs together, I will post them on our website and take orders. If not enough orders come in, then we drop the whole thing. Let me know, I will check it out. For now, just email with the interest, the ideas and what you would like to see. This is not an "ad" or a business venture. I am just will to do this and since we will be set up at the expo and I have to be there all the time, this could work out. I am just willing to do this for those that are interested. thanks, Diane Tarver http://Tri-Specialties.com I know I saw a posting here for jerseys at the IRONMAN ultras.  What about jerseys for half IRONMAN’s?  One for the Gulf Coast triathlon perhaps?  I’d buy one if its not too expensive.  Thanks

Response:

That is very nice of you to be willing to do so.  I only saw 2 postings thus far. Mine and one other.   One month is not very long to get enough responses.  Idea would be with Rec.Sport.Triathlon on the Jersey with RST’rs somewhere else. Acknowledgement of the race or flashy graphics on a coolmax jersey or zip bike jersey.  Bright colors using purple hues, mandarins,  black, white, slate blues, Sea greens perhaps.  Just an idea. What will you be selling at the expo?  Will your prices be reasonable? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We will be at the Gulf Coast Triathlon and be set up at the expo. If you are interested in having jerseys/singlets/shirts or whatever, I am willing to take care of having them made but this would be on a pre-paid order (after the details are settled). If you will email and let me know what you want, and perhaps some creative RSTer can come up with a logo/design. Give me some input. We have about one month to put this together. If we get a design and I get the costs together, I will post them on our website and take orders. If not enough orders come in, then we drop the whole thing. Let me know, I will check it out. For now, just email with the interest, the ideas and what you would like to see. This is not an "ad" or a business venture. I am just will to do this and since we will be set up at the expo and I have to be there all the time, this could work out. I am just willing to do this for those that are interested. thanks, Diane Tarver http://Tri-Specialties.com I know I saw a posting here for jerseys at the IRONMAN ultras.  What about jerseys for half IRONMAN’s?  One for the Gulf Coast triathlon perhaps?  I’d buy one if its not too expensive.  Thanks

Response:

Question:

Hi, I am currently looking at buying a new bike which I want to use for both training and racing. I mainly do sprint distances with the max cycle distance being 40Km, may max training distance would be 50-60km rides. I have been doing the rounds of the LSB’s looking at the different types of bikes including QR’s, Giant’s, Centurion, etc, etc. Does anyone own, or has anyone ridden the Giant MCR or Giant TCR1 or 2. What are your thoughts on these bikes, and would it suit me in relation to the type of riding I am doing. Any shared thoughts would be greatly appreciated, Etienne.

Response:

I am in the same boat…same distances but focusing more on duo’s (but some tris).  I was debating between a new "road" bike or tri bike.  I opted for the tri bike and decided to use my old road bike for some training and group rides.  Being as budget was tight I did not have a lot of options but settled in on the QR kilo.  I am getting the bike on friday so I can’t give you any opinons on the ride. But I can say that the company (QR) was great to deal with.  Besides they have a 30 day return policy. So I figure if I end up not liking it at least I am not stuck with it. Hope this helps Ted

Response:

<snipsnip I am currently looking at buying a new bike which I want to use for both training and racing. I mainly do sprint distances with the max cycle distance being 40Km, may max training distance would be 50-60km rides.

<snipsnip Does anyone own, or has anyone ridden the Giant MCR or Giant TCR1 or 2. What are your thoughts on these bikes, and would it suit me in relation to the type of riding I am doing.

Etienne, I own a TCR-2 myself, using it for sprint and OD tris, duathlons and regular rides (up to 150k). Works absolutely fine for me. There’s one comment I’ve picked up in Fiets magazine this month, concerning the really tall guys: when you’re over 190 cm (6f4" that is) you’re likely not to fit on a TCR (not even a size L), let alone an MCR (only size M available). Cheers. JeeWee

Response:

I own a Giant TCR 2R and really like it.  The bike is  light and responsive, it has a tight rear triangle and therefore climbs very well.  I like the aero fork and seatpost, but do not like the adjustabel stem.  It is hard to tighten fully and has a little too much flex.  If you go with this bike, I would find a regular stem to put on it once you have the right geometry set.  You should decide whether you want a road or tri bike first.  The TCR is a road bike but I have noticed that it is a lot more stable than my old Cannondale when on the aero bars.  I really like the bike, it is a lot of bike for the dollar. Hope this helps, Alex Hasse

Response:

I bought my wife the 1998 version.  The 1999 version is being marketed as the TEAM ONCE replica. Here is the bottom line – GIANT bikes have an alsorand reputation with hardcore bike geeks, but this bike seems to break that mold.  It is a FANTASTIC ride.  You will hear competing LBS claim that the frame is "not legal for international competition – or has been outlawed or some other kind of crap, as they try to sell you a lesser quality Cannondale for more money. The TCR built up is right at 20 lbs or less. the way you are paying that 40% for the name – not the technology).  The frame on the GIANT is made out of the same material that only comes available on the high end Cannondales.  I’m sure I have the bike geeks just seething by now.  "How DARE you even *try* to compare my Cannondale to a GIANT – how lewd" Fit, comfort, componetry that comes standard, carbon fiber aero fork, carbon fiber bladed seat post, aluminum matrix CU-92 frame, oh and PRICE – GIANT is the better choice, hands down in my  opinion (this is the operative word – OPINION).  But don’t trust me – look at the hill profile section of this months TRIATHLETE magazine. If I am not mistaken, Lazarote is considered by most to be the most challenging bike leg of all the IM sanctioned events, if you are not a strong cyclist – stay home.  Look at the picture and see what that guy is riding. By the way – I ride a Softride Powerwing 650 (which is for sale right now   have to, don’t want to), and I absolutely LOVE it- but a beam bike is not for everybody. I am a computer consultant recruiter. I have NO ties to any bike shop or product line. My testimony comes from owning the product and LOTS of comparison rides. If you must have the Cannondale name on you bike, I suggest you buy the Giant, paint it & buy a $5 Cannondale decal.  You will save hundreds, have a better bike, and the bike geeks won’t sneer at you as you pass them.  Hey better yet, keep the GIANT decal and make them feel like idiots for spending all that extra money – as you pass them. Andrew "I like Cannondales too, I just hate the price and the elitest attitudes" West

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I am currently looking at buying a new bike which I want to use for both training and racing. I mainly do sprint distances with the max cycle distance being 40Km, may max training distance would be 50-60km rides. I have been doing the rounds of the LSB’s looking at the different types of bikes including QR’s, Giant’s, Centurion, etc, etc. Does anyone own, or has anyone ridden the Giant MCR or Giant TCR1 or 2. What are your thoughts on these bikes, and would it suit me in relation to the type of riding I am doing. Any shared thoughts would be greatly appreciated, Etienne.

Response:

Question:

HI, I am a first time race director out of Buffalo, NY. I am putting on a triathlon series and I am looking for sponsor support and leads, this is new for me and I would appreciate any advice…thanks. Good luck and train safely. Andre

Response:

HI, I am a first time race director out of Buffalo, NY. I am putting on a triathlon series and I am looking for sponsor support and leads, this is new for me and I would appreciate any advice…thanks. Good luck and train safely. Andre

Andre- I recommend highly you purchase a copy of RST’er Katherine Williams "Triathlete Sourcebook ‘97′". It has precisely such a listing of sponsors as Chaz

Response:

Question:

Okay, time to see if the Net can help me with another project. For an adaptive P.E. class, I’m writing a paper on differently abled (or whatever the PC term is this week…I like this term) endurance athletes. I’ve only been able to find one article on Jim McLaren (my school’s library caries no triathlon mags), and a scattering of articles on others in road racing. If anybody knows of some sources, please e-mail me. Better yet, if there are any differently abled athletes on this newsgroup, e-mail me…I’d love to talk (okay, type) to you. Thanks in advanvce for any help. Jonathan Acey Albert University of Florida

Response:

For an adaptive P.E. class, I’m writing a paper on differently abled (or whatever the PC term is this week…I like this term) endurance athletes.

I don’t have any articles to refer you to, but the TV coverage of the ‘94 Ironman included Dr. Jon Franks, a wheelchair athlete, declining an offer to continue after missing the bike cutoff time.  This was his first Ironman, since it took him several years to persuade the race officials to waive their normal qualifying procedures. I met Franks last year at the Gulf Coast Triathlon (1/2 iron) last year, and at the Cape Cod triathlon (int’l distance) several years ago.  He swims backstroke with special leg flotation, and rides a custom made hand-cranked tricycle.  He typically swims mid to back of the pack, bikes 18 MPH, and runs about 5:00/mile.  At Gulf Coast, he DNF’ed about half way through the run with a broken wheel. Wheelchair athletes are rare in triathlons, though I have often seen athletes compete with an artificial leg. #include "disclaimer.h"                |____|

Response:

Question:

writes: I congradulate you.  I did my first tri at NCC Cleaveland last year on a hybrid and no wet suit.  Still trying to break the 3 hour barrier for the Olympic distance (so close this year).  I have done four tris this year with two more to go.  I love it and what it has done for me.  So what if I am a "back of the pack" person.  Our entry fees keeps races afloat and the only person I compete with is myself.

You may want to start picking people you see regularly at tris and have a remote but possible chance of beating.  This may help you improve and give you some extra pleasure when you accomplish it.  As you move up pick new people. Of course, the most important thing is to have fun. Just a suggestion…

Response:

writes: I congradulate you.  I did my first tri at NCC Cleaveland last year on a hybrid and no wet suit.  Still trying to break the 3 hour barrier for the Olympic distance (so close this year).  I have done four tris this year with two more to go.  I love it and what it has done for me.  So what if I am a "back of the pack" person.  Our entry fees keeps races afloat and the only person I compete with is myself. Michael Harris "MikeBike59"

Response:

Hello, all. I just wanted to report I ran my first Triathlon Sat. Aug 27, at Gull Lake, Michigan. It was 1k/40k/10k distance and I took over three hours to finish. There were lots of hills and I was finishing my bike leg as the 30th  male was finishing his run. I had a rugby game later on (I finished the Tri at 11:20, rugby kickoff was at 12:30-I changed in the car on the way), and think my time would have been much better, but I was trying to save some for later. This was an absolutely delightful experience and I thank you all for using this forum, because without it and some of its advice and complaints, I probably never would have done it. I rode on a mountain bike with my fat tires, swam without a wet suit, and ran a slow as I liked, but I finished and I loved it. Thanks again. Troy Dorstewitz Western Michigan University

Response: