Question:

There aren’t many group rides where you will pull at the front for 5-20 minutes while right around your LT, then rest for 1/4 of that time period and do it again.  That is what works best for me. When on group rides I’m well below LT most of the time while in the pack or paceline, with spikes above it when the someone attacks on a climb or when I pull through.  This is good training for roadracing and crits, but it sucks for TT’ing. I’m not saying that one shouldn’t do group rides, they can be fun and provide a nice social outlet.  But one can get a more specific workout alone.  A power meter or HRM, or even a simple speedometer help to keep your effort "honest". Just my $0.02, Your mileage may vary, etc, etc, etc Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4) As bad as most triathletes hate to admit it, they have a lot to learn from roadies.  Those that don’t have a problem with that fact generally fit right in and benefit the most.  Others are convinced that any difference they see in riding styles means that the roadies don’t know how to ride a bike (i.e. why don’t these guys hold the same speed like I do?). I know the above is conventional wisdom, but I must say that my personal experience does not bear it out.  I get far more benefit from training alone on the bike than I do in group rides.  Maybe if I raced in draft legal races I could benefit from sitting in a pack at 18 mph, biding my time until the sprint sign when I go anaerobic.  But as someone who competes individually, I have much more success doing 3 mile intervals at my lactate threshold, or even simple hill repeats. Do you race the bike segment of a triathlon at 120 bpm until you see a sprint sign and then go to 190?  Me neither.  Use the golden rule of training, the specificity principle.

Thing is, to learn to ride faster, you have to ride faster.  A road ride worth its salt (trails down your cheeks) will involve lots of "jumps" and hard efforts – much, much harder than you could do for a 3 mile interval.  The strength and speed benefits are similar to those gained by weight training, and you’ll be training your cardio-vascular system to recover from hard efforts better (the biggest difference between roadies and triathletes, IMHO).   And yeah, no one "needs" a bunch of roadies to get a good workout – but if you’re like 99+% of us, the motivation level will be MUCH higher to push yourself.  Particularly if there is a gap forming to the next wheel… D’Oh! Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

I do think it would be fun to ride w/ a big group and go real fast but my primary purpose is to train for an participate in TRI’s–at least for now.  Sounds like you would recommend a tri bike?  When you ride alone, do you feel any difference when getting off the bike after a (say) 30 mile ride vs a road bike?  When riding alone, do you go faster w/ one or the other?  Thanks. Gary

It’s a value judgement.  You could buy a tri bike and be a "one trick pony", or you could buy a road bike and open up some new possibilities, at the possible cost of some (probably slight) performance decrease. I know that I am marginally faster on my tri bike – but if I were to put clipons on my road bike, I suspect the difference would be minimal.  Mainly, the difference is that there’s actually a saddle under my butt on the tri bike, while I tend to ride on the nose of the saddle on a road bike with aerobars (i.e. I’m pretty much in the same position on both, but the steeper seat tube angle puts the saddle under me on the tri bike). Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

I do think it would be fun to ride w/ a big group and go real fast but my primary purpose is to train for an participate in TRI’s–at least for now.  Sounds like you would recommend a tri bike?  When you ride alone, do you feel any difference when getting off the bike after a (say) 30 mile ride vs a road bike?  When riding alone, do you go faster w/ one or the other?  Thanks. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G I would search the net (a deja search would be a good start) for info on steep seat tube angles for riding and racing.  Be sure you read both sides of the argument and decide which sounds best for you.  If you decide on a tri-bike and want to ride with roadies (though it doesn’t sound like you do) get drops and STI.  Personally I use (almost always) a tri setup (steep angle, bull horns, bar-end shifters and aero wheels) for all my riding, training and racing.  the only time I bring out my road bike is for the very rare "roadie" ride which I wouldn’t consider a tri set-up for.  FWIW my road bike always makes my back hurt more. tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Before you buy.

Response:

4) As bad as most triathletes hate to admit it, they have a lot to learn from roadies.  Those that don’t have a problem with that fact generally fit right in and benefit the most.  Others are convinced that any difference they see in riding styles means that the roadies don’t know how to ride a bike (i.e. why don’t these guys hold the same speed like I do?).

I know the above is conventional wisdom, but I must say that my personal experience does not bear it out.  I get far more benefit from training alone on the bike than I do in group rides.  Maybe if I raced in draft legal races I could benefit from sitting in a pack at 18 mph, biding my time until the sprint sign when I go anaerobic.  But as someone who competes individually, I have much more success doing 3 mile intervals at my lactate threshold, or even simple hill repeats. Do you race the bike segment of a triathlon at 120 bpm until you see a sprint sign and then go to 190?  Me neither.  Use the golden rule of training, the specificity principle. Before you buy.

Response:

So you don’t use intervals as part of your training? Ever since I began riding with roadies two years ago (after a few years of solo training – which, in hindsight, was far less effective), my cycling has improved dramatically – there’s definitely something to be said for riding at a pace that far exceeds your TT pace…it makes your race pace in a tri seem not so bad. Also, maybe it’s the rides you go on. Not all rides are extended periods of rolling along, followed by a 200m sprint. On the rides I go on, the pace is close to (or over) 30mph for 3+miles stretches (and it’s not flat where I live). Yeah, we take our time warming up, but when we’re ready to go, it’s quite hard. On more than one occasion, I’ve been compelled to blow lunch. "Sitting in" is a relative term on these rides – there’s really nowhere to hide. The fear of getting dropped, and the fun of attacking on group rides are the best way I can think of for anyone to improve their triathlon cycling. I think the key is that you’re forced to go hard when you don’t want to (when someone attacks). You can’t get the same level of suffering (which leads to improvement) by yourself. I don’t care how much discipline you have. If you keep your eyes and ears open, I’m sure you’ll have no trouble finding a group ride in your area that will help you improve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4) As bad as most triathletes hate to admit it, they have a lot to learn from roadies.  Those that don’t have a problem with that fact generally fit right in and benefit the most.  Others are convinced that any difference they see in riding styles means that the roadies don’t know how to ride a bike (i.e. why don’t these guys hold the same speed like I do?). I know the above is conventional wisdom, but I must say that my personal experience does not bear it out.  I get far more benefit from training alone on the bike than I do in group rides.  Maybe if I raced in draft legal races I could benefit from sitting in a pack at 18 mph, biding my time until the sprint sign when I go anaerobic.  But as someone who competes individually, I have much more success doing 3 mile intervals at my lactate threshold, or even simple hill repeats. Do you race the bike segment of a triathlon at 120 bpm until you see a sprint sign and then go to 190?  Me neither.  Use the golden rule of training, the specificity principle. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Your comments and input are most appreciated and I will continue to search for a roadie ride that works better for me.  I think I have just had a few bad experiences that made for a tough time.  I wouldn’t dare show up at an AA ride and I haven’t caused any wrecks or held the group up…I am just slow and still learning about the mechanics of the bike itself so it can be discouraging.  The white line drill is a great tip – thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How is a true "Newbie" supposed to get on a Road Bike and just start riding with Roadies? I have tried a few Roadie rides and they are miserable.  If you are already an accomplished cyclist I can see where spending time with Roadies in addition to swimming and running would add to your overall ability but what if your weak sport is cycling? I have not found "Roadies" to be very receptive to new riders…especially triathletes. I don’t think most roadies are miserable, nor are most roadie rides likely to chase away new riders.  There ARE some things to consider going in that not all newbies will realize…. 1) Going down hurts, and worse yet, messes up equipment.  So if you aren’t demonstrating an appropriately high level of bike handling AND decision-making skills, they are going to avoid you like the plague. There ARE a lot of new rules – but if you ask, they’ll explain ‘em. 2) Aerobars are death on a group ride.  See #1.  Doesn’t mean you can’t show up with clip-ons, but don’t even THINK about going near them in the pack.  Think "Sydney Olympics" and you’ll understand the kind of bike handling skills triathletes are "famous" for… 3) There are roadie rides, and there are roadie rides.  If you show up at the B or C ride, chances are the participants will be very laid back and willing to walk a newbie through the learning curve.  But if you happen to show up at the local AA ride, you have to realize that these guys (an asexual term in this case) are out to hammer each other into the ground (OK, it does sound like guys).  You’d just be one more victim that they’ll drop like a bad habit if they can. 4) As bad as most triathletes hate to admit it, they have a lot to learn from roadies.  Those that don’t have a problem with that fact generally fit right in and benefit the most.  Others are convinced that any difference they see in riding styles means that the roadies don’t know how to ride a bike (i.e. why don’t these guys hold the same speed like I do?). For a "Newbie" – riding with other triathletes or riding by yourself seems to be the best way to get started and get a comfortable on the bike. I do recommend getting in a good number of miles before considering jumping into a paceline or pack-riding situation.  Do white line-riding drills until you can do it while drinking and eating and flinging snot.  Practice looking back over your shoulder and under your arm until you do it automatically without moving from your line. Then, go find a laid-back roadie ride and start having some real fun (and realize that to these guys, often "fun" means bringing up their lunch again). Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame

Before you buy.

Response:

So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G

You can have two if you want as long as there both road bikes

Response:

How is a true "Newbie" supposed to get on a Road Bike and just start riding with Roadies? I have tried a few Roadie rides and they are miserable.  If you are already an accomplished cyclist I can see where spending time with Roadies in addition to swimming and running would add to your overall ability but what if your weak sport is cycling?  I have not found "Roadies" to be very receptive to new riders…especially triathletes.  For a "Newbie" – riding with other triathletes or riding by yourself seems to be the best way to get started and get a comfortable on the bike. So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G You can have two if you want as long as there both road bikes

Before you buy.

Response:

much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike.

Agreed!!!

Response:

Any particular reason I should spend so much time w/ "roadies".  Is it just because i might want to be cool or is there a fitness advantage? PS I Still don’t haven’t decided what i am going to buy a road or tri. Definately going to buy something tho.  At this point my tri choice would be a QR Tequillo w/ 700c’s and if its a road I was thinking Trek 2200 (i think that is the model)  both sell for around 1500.  the trek comes w/ 105 components and the tequilo w/ ultegra.   I welcome any comments or recommendations.  Gary spending as much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike. Agreed!!!

Before you buy.

Response:

riding with roadies will teach you how to ride properly, in form, in packs, and some of the "trick" they use to get in shape – accelerations, steady pace lines, etc.  Basically they will train you how to be a better rider than if you just jump on your aerobars and ride by yourself.  (though you should do that a couple times a week as well). good luck marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any particular reason I should spend so much time w/ "roadies".  Is it just because i might want to be cool or is there a fitness advantage? PS I Still don’t haven’t decided what i am going to buy a road or tri. Definately going to buy something tho.  At this point my tri choice would be a QR Tequillo w/ 700c’s and if its a road I was thinking Trek 2200 (i think that is the model)  both sell for around 1500.  the trek comes w/ 105 components and the tequilo w/ ultegra.   I welcome any comments or recommendations.  Gary spending as much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike. Agreed!!! Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G riding with roadies will teach you how to ride properly, in form, in packs, and some of the "trick" they use to get in shape – accelerations, steady pace lines, etc.  Basically they will train you how to be a better rider than if you just jump on your aerobars and ride by yourself.  (though you should do that a couple times a week as well). good luck

Before you buy.

Response:

you should be fine putting aerobars on your roadbike.  You can take them off to ride with the roadies, and once you can show them that you aren’t going to fall off your bike and (quite possibly) kill another cyclist, they won’t mind if you show up with your aerobars still on the bike.  A word of caution though, don’t try and ride in the aero position during a group ride, as it is dangerous and you will get chastized. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G riding with roadies will teach you how to ride properly, in form, in packs, and some of the "tricks" they use to get in shape – accelerations, steady pace lines, etc.  Basically they will train you how to be a better rider than if you just jump on your aerobars and ride by yourself.  (though you should do that a couple times a week as well). good luck Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

How is a true "Newbie" supposed to get on a Road Bike and just start riding with Roadies? I have tried a few Roadie rides and they are miserable.  If you are already an accomplished cyclist I can see where spending time with Roadies in addition to swimming and running would add to your overall ability but what if your weak sport is cycling?  I have not found "Roadies" to be very receptive to new riders…especially triathletes.

I don’t think most roadies are miserable, nor are most roadie rides likely to chase away new riders.  There ARE some things to consider going in that not all newbies will realize…. 1) Going down hurts, and worse yet, messes up equipment.  So if you aren’t demonstrating an appropriately high level of bike handling AND decision-making skills, they are going to avoid you like the plague. There ARE a lot of new rules – but if you ask, they’ll explain ‘em. 2) Aerobars are death on a group ride.  See #1.  Doesn’t mean you can’t show up with clip-ons, but don’t even THINK about going near them in the pack.  Think "Sydney Olympics" and you’ll understand the kind of bike handling skills triathletes are "famous" for… 3) There are roadie rides, and there are roadie rides.  If you show up at the B or C ride, chances are the participants will be very laid back and willing to walk a newbie through the learning curve.  But if you happen to show up at the local AA ride, you have to realize that these guys (an asexual term in this case) are out to hammer each other into the ground (OK, it does sound like guys).  You’d just be one more victim that they’ll drop like a bad habit if they can. 4) As bad as most triathletes hate to admit it, they have a lot to learn from roadies.  Those that don’t have a problem with that fact generally fit right in and benefit the most.  Others are convinced that any difference they see in riding styles means that the roadies don’t know how to ride a bike (i.e. why don’t these guys hold the same speed like I do?). For a "Newbie" – riding with other triathletes or riding by yourself seems to be the best way to get started and get a comfortable on the bike.

I do recommend getting in a good number of miles before considering jumping into a paceline or pack-riding situation.  Do white line-riding drills until you can do it while drinking and eating and flinging snot.  Practice looking back over your shoulder and under your arm until you do it automatically without moving from your line. Then, go find a laid-back roadie ride and start having some real fun (and realize that to these guys, often "fun" means bringing up their lunch again). Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

Chris, I agree totally. I ride with the PPTC heres there web site http://www.bikepptc.org/ they have lots of different levels. From old ladies that ride 3 miles to the coffee shop on Sunday to Pro’s and Olympic level riders. Training with others is much more fun than just going out on your bike for a ride.  When I ride with them I always go a little faster and a little farther than I would if I was riding by myself. Its to bad people "label" others as "roadies" for example. Sure if you go out on a ride that is not the right level for you it won’t work out.  Once last summer a girl showed up for a ride held up the whole group waiting for her to get her shit together then couldn’t hold a pace of 16 mph on a flat road. The 70 mile ride was suppose to have an average speed of about 20 mph. Obviously she was dropped in the first 5 miles (during the warm up).

Response:

So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G

I would search the net (a deja search would be a good start) for info on steep seat tube angles for riding and racing.  Be sure you read both sides of the argument and decide which sounds best for you.  If you decide on a tri-bike and want to ride with roadies (though it doesn’t sound like you do) get drops and STI.  Personally I use (almost always) a tri setup (steep angle, bull horns, bar-end shifters and aero wheels) for all my riding, training and racing.  the only time I bring out my road bike is for the very rare "roadie" ride which I wouldn’t consider a tri set-up for.  FWIW my road bike always makes my back hurt more. tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

Any local cycling club worth anything wouldn’t treat a newbie this way. Sure, if you show up for an organized club ride for the top riders, then yeah, you’ll get blown away. All of the clubs I’ve been around have various rides accomodating different levels. You work your way up to the fast group rides. Why would riding with other triathletes be any better. If they are already triathletes, they probably ride fairly well already and why would they want to hang around and wait for a "newbie" any more than a roadie would? I would suggest you look up a local club or LBS and check out scheduled rides, one that fits the level you desire. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How is a true "Newbie" supposed to get on a Road Bike and just start riding with Roadies? I have tried a few Roadie rides and they are miserable.  If you are already an accomplished cyclist I can see where spending time with Roadies in addition to swimming and running would add to your overall ability but what if your weak sport is cycling?  I have not found "Roadies" to be very receptive to new riders…especially triathletes.  For a "Newbie" – riding with other triathletes or riding by yourself seems to be the best way to get started and get a comfortable on the bike.

Response:

and how long would a "newbie" stay a "newbie?"  after a couple of months of riding you can start riding with roadies.  you may get dropped, but the only way to get faster is to push yourself and try and hang.   As to roadies not being very accepting, there comes a point when you just need to show up and not give a shit if they pull attitude on you. if your interest in triathlons is purely as a passing recreational pastime, then in all fairness the only benefit of riding with roadies would be the added comraderie and decreased ride time (faster with the group draft). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How is a true "Newbie" supposed to get on a Road Bike and just start riding with Roadies? I have tried a few Roadie rides and they are miserable.  If you are already an accomplished cyclist I can see where spending time with Roadies in addition to swimming and running would add to your overall ability but what if your weak sport is cycling?  I have not found "Roadies" to be very receptive to new riders…especially triathletes.  For a "Newbie" – riding with other triathletes or riding by yourself seems to be the best way to get started and get a comfortable on the bike. So, does that mean i should get 2 bikes or that I should put aerobars on my road bike?  Thanks again for all the responses!  G You can have two if you want as long as there both road bikes Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Why can’t I ride a tri bike with "roadies"  ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone offer this rookie some advice? First of all, don’t listed to that guy Shaun.  That’s a joke, by the way — he’s a friend of mine.  Anyway, I’d recommend a road bike for starters.  If, after a year or two, you’re pretty committed to triathlon you might want to consider a dedicated tri bike.  I started with a fairly lousy road bike, then got a middle-of-the-road tri bike and now I spend my time on a decent road bike.  I slap on aerobars and a forward seatpost for triathlons.  Not the absolute best setup but quite acceptable and I have the flexibility of having a road bike for group rides.  Which leads me to my next point: I recommend spending as much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike. — Cheers, Doug Fuller Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Why can’t I ride a tri bike with "roadies"  ?

In general, "roadies" get nervous when people in tri-bikes are riding in the pack.  Tri-bikes are typically less stable than road bikes, due to shorter wheelbases and the narrower grip offered by tri-bars.  Not as much of an issue if the tri-bike-rider is on the cow-horn part of the bars, but sometimes a tri-rider will be out there in full-aero form, hands on the aero-bars (where they can’t even get to the brakes).  So, basically, people on tri-bikes make roadies somewhat nervous. Having said all that, I frequently ride with a tri-guy (Kevin Keenan) who can ride just about as well on his tri-bike (a TREK Hilo) as many experience cyclists on a standard road bike.  He can climb well, descend like a madman (even on the aero bars!) and hold a pretty steady line.  I would follow his wheel anywhere!  But many would say he’s not typical, and that riding with tri-people is kinda scary. –Mike–     Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why can’t I ride a tri bike with "roadies"  ? Can anyone offer this rookie some advice? First of all, don’t listed to that guy Shaun.  That’s a joke, by the way — he’s a friend of mine.  Anyway, I’d recommend a road bike for starters.  If, after a year or two, you’re pretty committed to triathlon you might want to consider a dedicated tri bike.  I started with a fairly lousy road bike, then got a middle-of-the-road tri bike and now I spend my time on a decent road bike.  I slap on aerobars and a forward seatpost for triathlons.  Not the absolute best setup but quite acceptable and I have the flexibility of having a road bike for group rides.  Which leads me to my next point: I recommend spending as much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike. — Cheers, Doug Fuller Before you buy. Before you buy.

Response:

"Most" triathlon bikes have steep seattube angles and lower stem/bar heights which alter the way they ride when ridden like a road bike, i.e.: seated back and hands on the top of the handlebars. They are designed to have the weight over the front when you ride in an aero position and often don’t corner very well for this reason. There are other differences to do with your ability to spin on steeper frames etc that also inhibit their performance as a pure "road" bike but that depends as much on the rider as the frame design. There are other characteristics like short chainstays that can make them difficult in various conditions. Be careful about generalizations, not all modern Tri bike designs fit into the general category of what most people call a "Tri" bike. Lloyd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why can’t I ride a tri bike with "roadies"  ? Can anyone offer this rookie some advice? First of all, don’t listed to that guy Shaun.  That’s a joke, by the way — he’s a friend of mine.  Anyway, I’d recommend a road bike for starters.  If, after a year or two, you’re pretty committed to triathlon you might want to consider a dedicated tri bike.  I started with a fairly lousy road bike, then got a middle-of-the-road tri bike and now I spend my time on a decent road bike.  I slap on aerobars and a forward seatpost for triathlons.  Not the absolute best setup but quite acceptable and I have the flexibility of having a road bike for group rides.  Which leads me to my next point: I recommend spending as much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike. — Cheers, Doug Fuller Before you buy. Before you buy.

Response:

I am fairly new to Triathlons and am looking for a new bike.  I have received conflicting information.  The latest conflicting thing I have been told is that the olympic triathletes don’t even race on tri bikes.  They race on road bikes.  Does any one know if this is true?  IF so, why do i need a tri bike?  I am pretty sure i would go with the QR Tequilo if i get a tri bike but have no idea what to get if i now take this last person’s advice and go w/ a road bike.  Can anyone offer this rookie some advice? Thanks in advance!  Gary Before you buy.

Response:

The bike leg of an Olympic format triathlon is essentially a road race.  That is, drafting is legal and pack racing and road racing strategies have been imployed.  This is why they have migrated "back" to road racing bikes.  A "triathlon  bike" is basically a Time Trial bike.  TT bikes are made to be more aerodynamic and are designed around the aerodynamic riding position (riding in the aero bars).  The major issue you should be concerned with is the fact that you will not be racing in Olympic format races, therefore, you will not be drafting or racing in packs.  This does not mean you can’t race on a bike with road geometry, the majority of us do.  The never ending issue of TT bike vs. road bike is up to you, test ride both and buy the one you like better.  No one can honestly tell you what is better for you.  many people ride very fast AND comfortably on both set-ups. Before you buy.

Response:

Can anyone offer this rookie some advice?

First of all, don’t listed to that guy Shaun.  That’s a joke, by the way — he’s a friend of mine.  Anyway, I’d recommend a road bike for starters.  If, after a year or two, you’re pretty committed to triathlon you might want to consider a dedicated tri bike.  I started with a fairly lousy road bike, then got a middle-of-the-road tri bike and now I spend my time on a decent road bike.  I slap on aerobars and a forward seatpost for triathlons.  Not the absolute best setup but quite acceptable and I have the flexibility of having a road bike for group rides.  Which leads me to my next point: I recommend spending as much time as possible riding with roadies, and for that you need a road bike. — Cheers, Doug Fuller Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I’m a new amateur to triathlons, last season I competed in 3 sprints.  My general fitness is massively improved but I’m struggling to improve times, I seem to have a natural cadence, stride, stroke that I find very difficult to speed up.  I intend to do an olympic distance tri this season after a couple of sprints.  Any suggestions of where I can get a good training plan? Alastair

Response:

There are links to various coaches on the RST site. I use Rod Cedaro and I also know Coach Troy has an excellent rep. URL’s in my sig. Philip Squire Websites www.recsporttriathlon.com http://w1.116.telia.com/%7Eu11602093/intro.htm

| I’m a new amateur to triathlons, last season I competed in 3 sprints.  My | general fitness is massively improved but I’m struggling to improve times, I | seem to have a natural cadence, stride, stroke that I find very difficult to | speed up.  I intend to do an olympic distance tri this season after a couple | of sprints.  Any suggestions of where I can get a good training plan? | | Alastair | |

Response:

Check out www.teamsheeper.com (ecoaching) or www.asimba.com I’m a new amateur to triathlons, last season I competed in 3 sprints.  My general fitness is massively improved but I’m struggling to improve times, I seem to have a natural cadence, stride, stroke that I find very difficult to speed up.  I intend to do an olympic distance tri this season after a couple of sprints.  Any suggestions of where I can get a good training plan? Alastair

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

The shamals have too much weight in the periphery though, which has a negative effect on acceleration. Good for the flats, but not for climbing. Too much inertia.

For climbing though, it doesn’t matter if the weight is in the hub or the rim. Only in acceleration (in the sense of an inccrease in the rotational speed of the wheel) does it matter. Sincerely, G

Question:

Ron- I’m not sure where you live, but reading between the lines I think it’s the SF Bay Area???…Regarding your swimming, I’m a rank newbie (see my earlier post), BUT I found an excellent swim coach in the area. His name is Stuart can see a MAJOR change in my technique. I understand Cathy Morgan is also using him to train for Ironman California next year. Go Cathy! A little bit about Stuart’s background. I may not have all this right because part of Stuart’s charm is that he is rather modest about his accomplishments and you kinda have to drag info out of him. 6 Ironmen including IMH. At one time held the swim record for IMC! 10th in the bike split, 15th overall. !!!! It’s nice having a swim coach I can also ask about my pace, nutrition, or bike. Stuart, like many accomplished athletes, is somewhat soft spoken, and has a mellow disposition that hides a tough competitor. He has taught swimming most of his life, from young kids, to masters. Having watched some masters workout, I can say he is unlike any coach I’ve seen. His main focus is on your stroke and technique rather than just swimming till you puke. He may also be able to help you with the dry heaves . Cheers, Tri-Stu Alamo, CA Next race "Tri-for-Real" Sept 19th – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yours truly was one of the 120 or so participants of the inaugural Bethel Island Triathlon, held this last Saturday the 28th of August. I decided at the last minute to run the race and so found myself blinking into a rising sun, heading towards the Sacramento Delta. The directions I

Question:

About two months ago I posted a long message concerning a bike accident that I was in in September that destroyed my bike. I have only recently been able to start running again. Although .I feel fine when I run, the day afterwards I have cramps and severe soarness in my lower legs. The pain seems to start right around the back of my knee down to my foot.The pain seems to last for about a day and a half after a normal running workout that shouldn’t give me any problems. I have never had this problem before even when I first started triathlon.At first I thought I just needed new shoes, nope (I got new shoes and the pain is stll there). Then I thought that I just needed to stretch. Nope (I strech liberally before and after my workouts). Is this pain due to my recovery from my bike accident? Is there anyhting that I can do to get rid of it?  Any info is welcomed. Thanks  -David Clifford- San Jose, CA

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Dave, it is unlikely that your pain lasts for 3 months. I had similar problems: -1- are you overtrained? -2- decrease your training hours / why not two weeks off? -3- do you really practice streching consequently? if -1- to -3- is NO then: -4- do "under water running" – wearing a life-jacket good luck, Peter, Linz/Austria Dclifford1 schrieb in Nachricht – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -About two months ago I posted a long message concerning a bike accident that I was in in September that destroyed my bike. I have only recently been able to start running again. Although .I feel fine when I run, the day afterwards I have cramps and severe soarness in my lower legs. The pain seems to start right around the back of my knee down to my foot.The pain seems to last for about a day and a half after a normal running workout that shouldn’t give me any problems. I have never had this problem before even when I first started triathlon.At first I thought I just needed new shoes, nope (I got new shoes and the pain is stll there). Then I thought that I just needed to stretch. Nope (I strech liberally before and after my workouts). Is this pain due to my recovery from my bike accident? Is there anyhting that I can do to get rid of it? Any info is welcomed. Thanks -David Clifford- San Jose, CA

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Question:

I gotta agree with Steve.  Have you ever tried to develop commercial SW?  Also consider that this isn’t going to be the next Lotus 123 (sorry Steve) –it’s market is quite small, and the development costs won’t be spread out over many units. I wrote an bunch of excel macros that does most of what Steve’s package does, but I’m considering buying his anyway.  I mean, do I really want to haul my laptop out to the race site and worry about weather, power connections and so on? I think it’s a cool product! Glenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For pre-written software running on a Palm Pilot, try: http://www.stevenscreek.com/pilot/pockettimer.shtml This looks OK, but I would say a little over-priced, like most commercial software – if they charged 1/10 the price, people wouldn’t bother to pirate it. The software costs $39.95! For that and the cost of a PalmPilot ($197) you can replace a hardware box that costs $600-$1000 and have a unit that does a heck of a lot more. And you think it’s overpriced? If we charged 1/10 the price I can assure you it would never have been written in the first place, since we wouldn’t be in this business. Gheesh! You’d think we were charging $395 (which, compared to the money the average race promotor pays to a timing company to time their race, would STILL be cheap)! Steve Patt, trying to refrain from ranting TOO much Stevens Creek Software/The Athlete’s Bookstore  http://www.stevenscreek.com

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For pre-written software running on a Palm Pilot, try: http://www.stevenscreek.com/pilot/pockettimer.shtml This looks OK, but I would say a little over-priced, like most commercial software – if they charged 1/10 the price, people wouldn’t bother to pirate it.

The software costs $39.95! For that and the cost of a PalmPilot ($197) you can replace a hardware box that costs $600-$1000 and have a unit that does a heck of a lot more. And you think it’s overpriced? If we charged 1/10 the price I can assure you it would never have been written in the first place, since we wouldn’t be in this business. Gheesh! You’d think we were charging $395 (which, compared to the money the average race promotor pays to a timing company to time their race, would STILL be cheap)! Steve Patt, trying to refrain from ranting TOO much Stevens Creek Software/The Athlete’s Bookstore   http://www.stevenscreek.com

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Hi there, What software do race organizers out there use?  Any help is appreciated! — Dierk Seeburg, Sun Devil Triathlon Team, Arizona State U., Tempe, USA

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For pre-written software running on a Palm Pilot, try: http://www.stevenscreek.com/pilot/pockettimer.shtml This looks OK, but I would say a little over-priced, like most commercial software – if they charged 1/10 the price, people wouldn’t bother to pirate it. Every race I have done in UK seems to use a pen and paper to record bib# and time, then an army of data entry operators to work out the results. In Germany I have seen races where you wear a transponder band, and get accurate time and split info on screen at various parts of the course. An excellent system. Any college kid could write some software for you. Try approaching your local Highschool/college or a known computer geek  - I bet you could get them to do it for virtually no cost if you supply the specifications of what you want. (They’re doing mine at the moment) SWINDON UK ######IRONMAN IN TRAINING###### #                __o       o  # #   /o_         <      </_ # #  2.4M       112M    26.2/M  #

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Question:

:       My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer : prior to my sophomore high school cross country season… :       Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. : I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed : sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be : running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high : school runners probably trained twice a day… Well, nothing personal, but you’re not an elite high school runner.  So why exactly did he expect you to do two-a-days?  I’d wager that the few HS elites who run twice a day *first* showed that they had extraordinary potential while doing one-a-days, and only later moved to two-a-days to attempt to squeeze out the last little bit. Anecdotally, the top six guys on my HS team (long, long ago) ran miles of something like 4:07, 4:15, 4:18, 4:23, 4:27, and 4:35.  We never ran twice a day.  A friend of mine coached the West Region Kinney champion a few years ago.  He never did two-a-days.  A training partner of mine was a Kinney National champion, circa 1980.  He didn’t do two-a-days. Clearly, the thinking that "all" HS elites run twice a day is in error. If you are talked into attempting doubles, keep it only during a base building phase of your training, and stop it when you start hill runs, tempo workouts, etc. -pfrench

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I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example. Andrew McNett

Andrew, I agree with just about everything you wrote above.  It seems you know the answer, and are just looking for justification. The bigger question is how you will get your father’s support as you begin to train smarter….. Also, congradulations on being your team’s captain.  That is a big honor and responsibility.  However, I would caution you to keep your desire to be 1st place varsity runner separate being an excellent team leader.  Those are two very different roles and tasks.  Recognize them as that, support every runner, from the slowest to the one or two that may be faster than you, and be a leader to your team no matter what position you run. –ed

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I hate to hear about parental pressure of this sort.  Remember some things.  You should be competing for yourself, because you enjoy it and because you are good at it.  Do not do it for your father, mother, coach, etc.  Do it because you have desire for it. Yes, you were overtrained without a doubt.  Many uninformed people of sports physiology do not have the slighest idea what overtraining is. They are of the old school which says more is better.  Many parents and high school coaches still think this way.  You sound luck in that your coach understands the concept of overtraining. Mine did not.  During my high school swimming day our coach was so focused on winning state that he overtrained the whole team.  I pleaded to him to cut down the training and he would not listen.  At the state meet every single member of our team swam slower than the time they had been averaging all year.  He still did not understand at the end. Make your dad read some literature on the subject.  Sit him down with your coach so your coach can explain the theory behind overtraining. Measure you resting heart rate every morning.  Take care of your self, overtraining is serious. If you would like additional infro on overtraining literature let me know. Brandon

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        Hello RST and Rec.Running!         My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer

-bits snipped- Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.

-bits snipped-  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.  My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.

-bits snipped-  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.         If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself. Andrew McNett

Hi Andrew, this definetely sounds like serious overtraining to me. Sleeping problems, fatigue, nutrition problems, orthopedic problems…typical symptoms for overtraining.  If I was in your place, I would  quit the 2-a-day-running-schedule for at least early season for a period of 2-3 month. During this time, I would try to focus on cross-training, not on running. Try to take the weight of your feet, go biking or swimming as a second training unit a day and build up a solid base of aerobic fitness with the bike (long rides + 3 hrs, starting maybe with 1 hr, but I don`t know your biking abilities), long swims (1 hr) in the pool. This will help to keep orthopedic problems away, and the gain of aerobic potential will help your running. Also do some weight training to strengthen your quadriceps, but do it *smart*, this means no high weights, only 5-10 kg will be enough, but lots of repetitions. Find a trainer for this ! When you feel ready for it take up the 2-a-day-schedule, but only during the last cycles of pre-race-season-training. Best is to ask a qualified trainer for a good long-term training schedule. As I said: I think your trainers + you are right. Sorry, Daddy your wrong. Don`t use so much pressure on your boy, he is giving himself enough of that. Hope this helps Hannes

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<<        My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained. My reply:  Overtrained, possibly depressed. Who am I?  a triathlete, former college soccer player and current physician in Family Medicine and Emergency Medicine Evidence of overtraining:  Fatigue, sleep disturbance, appetite changes, decreasing speed at an age and in a situation (trainining) when speed should be increasing, possible irritability. Evidence of depression:  the same, plus a father who seems to be pressuring you instead of enjoying you. How can you tell the difference between depression and overtraining? Taper for one week down to 10 miles in 3 sessions of 3 miles each, NOT fast.  Get 9 hours sleep or more daily during that week.  If the symptoms go away, you were overtrained.  If they don’t, you are depressed. WARNING #1: If you are under 18 years old you will not FEEL depressed. You will feel like people are giving you a hard time, pressuring you.  You will feel like your friends are jerks – that most everyone is a jerk.  Your friends and family will notice that you have fatigue, a negative attitude and a quick temper.  You only feel depressed once you develope insight, which occurs at about 17-18 years old.  That is why driving, voting, military service, drinking, etc happen later. WARNING #2:  If you are over 12 years old your mind prefers to stay up late, but your body needs at least 9 hours of sleep.  School always starts at the same time.  So you know what to do, right?  BTW, in my practice much of the parent-child conflict is because of depression or sleep deprivation.  Sometimes it is the kids’ problem, sometimes the parents’ problem, and sometimes both.   Write me personally if you want to know more about depression.  (Anger is a cardinal sign in men) Byron well-reasoned post. J. Byron Walthall, Jr. Charlotte, NC, USA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -McNett) writes: Hello RST and Rec.Running!    My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.    Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.      To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).    My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.      This topic came up because I’m in summer training for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.    If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.  

Simple:  Make appointments for your coaches to speak to your father, and if they can’t convince him, tell him you intend to rely on your coaches’ superior information and experience anyway.  Suggest he get his satisfaction by running himself.  It’s not as if your relationship is conditioned on the amount of reflected glory he getsfrom your athletic achievements, is it?

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Normally, I’d answer you privately only. But this sort of thing comes up often, though we don’t often discuss it on these newsgroups. So my answer is partly geared towards those others in your situation who are dealing with arguments with their parents. If I assume something that isn’t relevant to you, then forgive me. Were it me, I would arrange a meeting between myself, my father, and my coaches. I would lay it out just as you have, without challenges or anger, and I would ask them to discuss it together. The coaches will be experienced, and I’m assuming your dad is not. But he is experienced in wanting you to achieve the best you can, and he may be reading a running mag that describes 25-year-old marathoners who run 90-120-mile weeks. Even if you disagree with him, treat him with respect. The Bible, which is surprisingly relevant here, says "Children, obey your parents", and "Honor your father and mother". Notice it does not say, "Adults, obey your parents". At your age, you are on the border of being an adult, and you will have to earn that status in resolving this dispute. That means avoiding anger, listening to him, and respecting him in other ways. It’s not so easy even for many adults, believe me. Truly, though, your coaches should help you discuss it with your father. You can’t have two coaches and maintain peace, and they need to ask your father to let them do their jobs. Of course, we are only hearing your side of the story. You also need to make sure that the story you are telling is really, really the truth.We don’t need the truth, but you need to make sure you are not kidding yourself. You cannot win a moral victory unless your side of the street is spotlessly clean. That takes work and honesty. But you don’t sound like you are doing that. In fact, you are one of the few high-school contributors I’ve seen around here that can actually write a decent sentence. If you use the same clarity and non-emotional tone when you meet with your coaches and father, then you improve your chances for success a lot. I try to imagine myself at your age following this advice. I never did. I had to learn all these lessons the hard way. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Hello RST and Rec.Running!    My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.    Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.      To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).    My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.      This topic came up because I’m in summer training for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.    If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.      Thank you for your time, Andrew McNett South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track Whidbey Island, WA p.s. I am 5′10", 140 lbs.

Rick Denney Remember–free advice is worth what you pay for it!

Response:

|had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day |days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a Compared to what we did back when I was in HS-XC, 35-40 is about right; we usually did 30-50 over five or six days (we often did various invitationals on the weekend).  The long runs were almost always on hills. |month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble We only doubled up at the very beginning of the season to get everyone back in shape quickly.  Almost no one trained over the summer (yes, we had a very good team despite this . |sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and |timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to Warning signs — at least one of the big 3 isn’t right: too much (or too hard) training, not enough good sleep, or wrong nutrition. |       My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had Your father is a knob-head. |been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I |ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear There’s only so much that training can do.  Talent (ie. genetics) count in a big way.  I was known as a training fanatic ‘cuz I did soccer three times a week in addition to doing every single XC training run completely (I like running .  I ran 5th or 4th (it varied) for our XC team. Our top runner won at the CA state finals and placed at the nationals. He probably did only 3/4 of the runs.  Our #2 and #3 runners had similar lackadaisical training schedules.  ’Course I could give ‘em all a 50m head start and still beat ‘em on a 100m sprint … well, almost. Anyway, it could be that you’re just not cut out for XC.  The real way to recognize talent in yourself (it’s easy in others) is to look around at the effort everyone else is putting in.  If you’re barely trying and doing as well as those that are knocking they’re brains out, then you’ve found your niche!  Ya gotta ride the wave you’re on. | for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training … |2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I |overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and Hmmm.  There are lots of solutions.  Number 1: lie, "Hey Dad, off to a run.", then go do what you want.  I was appalled when I discovered that other kids would actually tell their parents what they really did. Amazing, eh?  Parents are like mushrooms … 2: Compromise.  Double up, but with running and swimming.  All three of our top runners were also swimmers.  Not that they competed on the swim team, but they did swim regularly; that’s usually what they did when they didn’t do a complete run.  They’d run off to #2’s place (he had a pool) and swim for a while, then run back. IMHO, there is no better cardio-vascular workout than swimming.  It also feels great when you’re sore from a hard run.  And, at least this way you’re unlikely to develop any more stress injuries. 3: Tell Dad to stop behaving like a knob-head.  He is, trust me.  I’ve seen knob-heads in action, and he qualifies.  [BTW, only tell him this if you have a really hot temper and like exercising it.] |Andrew McNett |South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track |Whidbey Island, WA Ah, from the NW, where XC is both devil and deity.  No wonder … Good luck! – Tim Iverson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Hello RST and Rec.Running!         My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.         Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.         To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).         My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.         This topic came up because I’m in summer training  for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.         If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.         Thank you for your time, Andrew McNett South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track Whidbey Island, WA p.s. I am 5′10", 140 lbs.

So YOU think you overtrained, and YOUR COACH thinks you overtrained, and you’re asking whether you should believe your father instead of your own body and a presumably competent coach? Parents… sheesh.

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Look, I am not in the business of settling domestic disputes. I only know what I know. By the sound of things, based on your race distances, you are WAY overtrained. Knee tendinitis, plantar faschitis and the achilles tendinits are three classic examples of an overtrained runner. Not to mention the sleep disturbances and appetite decrease. Also, your slower times are an indicator. The body needs time to recoup. You cannot continue to tear it down and not give it any time to recover, you’ll just get run down. I liken overtraining to sleep deprivation. When my son was born, my wife and I walked around in a constant daze because our bodies were not recovering from the odd hours, reduced sleep and increased work load on us. Does this sound like you? Triathletes like us in RST are somewhat lucky in a sense. We have three sports to spread the load out over. Sure, you can easily become overtrained in triathlon, but chances are because running is really the only real "impact" sport, it may show up only as extreme fatigue, sleeplessness, and irratibility…not necessarily all the leg problems you have endured. My advice is to do the following: 1) Longer runs at less intensity. It doesn’t necessarily sound like your mileage is way overboard, probably just the way in which you are logging the miles. Right now, maybe do one or two speed workouts per week at the most. 2) Rest, rest, rest. Monitor your resting heart rate. If you wake up, after urinating, and your heart rate is 10-15 beats over normal resting rate, you may be overtrained. 3) Consult with your coach. I can’t imagine any self-respecting HS coach would not be able to spot the signals of an overtrained runner. 4) Consult with your Dad. He’s the only one you have. Good Luck! Wes

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        Hello RST and Rec.Running!         My father is of the opinion that I did not run hard enough last summer prior to my sophomore high school cross country season.  However, it is my opinion that I overtrained.  My opinion is shared by my coaches and other runners.  I would really like it if the kind readers of my favorite two newsgroups could help figure out who is correct, or more correct.         Specifically, my father thought that I should be running twice a day. I wanted to be very successful, and I was running hard (weekly speed sessions, long hill workouts, etc.), but he thought that I should be running twice a day.  He said that he thought that all elite high school runners probably trained twice a day.  I decided to try 2-a-days early on in my summer training. Prior to starting 2-a-days, I had been running between 35 and 40 miles per week.  On the 2-a-day days I was covering between 7 and 10 miles in total.  After about a month of training with 2-a-days, I was having more and more trouble sleeping.  My thirst and appetite also decreased.  My interval and timed run times worsened, and I thought that I should train harder to get those times to where I thought they should be.  In the end, however, I got slower and slower and picked up a serious case of knee tendinitis.           To make a long story short, I went into cross country injured and fatigued.  I still ran hard in practice and races, but midway through the season I developed serious plantar fasciitis causing my arches to fall completely.  I also developed Achilles tendinitis.  My race times got slower and slower, and I finished the last race of the season about a minute slower than I had as a freshman (we race at 3 miles to 5k).         My father is still convinced that I didn’t run hard enough.  I had been shooting for a top varsity position (2 or 3) and in the end I ended up being the last varsity guy on my team.  Also, I  have to wear orthotics constantly now because of my foot troubles.           This topic came up because I’m in summer training  for cross country again, and we’ve been arguing about my training regimen.  I am going to be captain of the team this year (my junior season), and I would like to lead the team from the front, not just by example.  I have the ability to this, I believe, if I come into the season fresh but in good shape.  I am currently running better than I have since the early stages of last summer’s training, during which I did some of my best running ever.  However, this argument about 2-a-days and overtraining (my father does not believe that I overtrained in the slightest) has caused both of us a lot of grief and anger.         If you think you can tell what’s going on from what I’ve described, please lend your opinion!  It could help solve a long standing conflict between my father and myself.           Thank you for your time, Andrew McNett South Whidbey High School Cross Country and Track Whidbey Island, WA p.s. I am 5′10", 140 lbs.

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Question:

come with the last news letter…. Thanks! Sam

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Tri Fed rankings are published once a year (first issue of Triathlon Times-Jan/Feb). Ranking 20,000 members is a huge task and is completed in December. This year the task will be even more immense as all Tri Fed sanctioned races are being included in the ranking system. Be sure to encourage your local race director to get results to us so they may be included (biggest problem in the ranking system is receiving usable results to be plugged into our formula). Hope that helps. Steve Locke Tri Fed/USA

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The annual Tri Fed/USA rankings are published each year in the Jan/Feb issue of Triathlon Times. This year all Tri Fed sanctioned races will be included in the ranking system. This is a huge project that normally is complete in December for inclusion in the magazine. Check this year’s Jan/Feb issue for the 1994 rankings. Hope this helps. Steve Locke Tri Fed/USA

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And if you get two copies, you can read them twice! Cooter

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Question:

Maybe I missed them but does anyone have race results from Japan?  I’m most interested in men’s pro results.  TIA

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Saw some results posted on the Triathlete Magazine Web page.   Mark Allen was first in a time of 8:23:00.  The next nine men were all Japanese.  He won by 13 minutes over his next competitor, as I recall. Mark

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Question:

OK, and a runner recently turned triathlete I have a few quetions that might seem a bit silly.  But the only dumb questions are the ones you don’t ask, right? 1)  I finally bought some clipless pedals (Time Crits) and they are very hard to screw into my cranks.  Is it normal for them to be so hard to get in?  They’re round, so I can’t use a wrench and it’s very hard to do.  Any suggestions? 2)  Is it best to get Time shoes with Time pedals?  I’ve had some friends (who happen to be roadies) tell me the best thing to do is get a matching system since adapters add unneeded weight and just dont work as well as the "real thing." 3)   Can anyone recommend  a good set of aero  bars to start with?   Most of my roadie friends have recommended Profile Air Strykes, but I thought it would be better to get the opinion of some triathletes. Any responses either e-mail or posted would be appreciated!   Thanks!   O                                    Jason Mayfield  `/     (*)/  (*)    ’—     __’   `    

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OK, and a runner recently turned triathlete I have a few quetions that might seem a bit silly.  But the only dumb questions are the ones you don’t ask, right?

Absolutely! 1)  I finally bought some clipless pedals (Time Crits) and they are very hard to screw into my cranks.  Is it normal for them to be so hard to get in?  They’re round, so I can’t use a wrench and it’s very hard to do.  Any suggestions?

I should be very easy.  Something’s wrong.  Have you considered that the threads go in opposite directions for the two pedals?  Are the threads clean?  You might try a little light oil.  BTW, I’ve never heard of pedals that don’t have at least two flat sides where you can get a wrench on them.  Sometimes you have to use a very narrow wrench. 2)  Is it best to get Time shoes with Time pedals?  I’ve had some friends (who happen to be roadies) tell me the best thing to do is get a matching system since adapters add unneeded weight and just dont work as well as the "real thing."

I don’t use Times, but I believe that lots of shoes can accept the cleats without a heavy adapter.  Get shoes that are comfortable, snug, stiff-soled and that you can change quickly (eg. velcro straps, not laces).  Time makes some nice shoes, but so do lots of other companies. 3)   Can anyone recommend  a good set of aero  bars to start with?   Most of my roadie friends have recommended Profile Air Strykes, but I thought it would be better to get the opinion of some triathletes.

I use the AirStrykes and like them a lot.  I’ve also heard good things about the new Scott bars with the flip-up armrests. Dave LaPorte U. of Minn.

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1)  I finally bought some clipless pedals (Time Crits) and they are very hard to screw into my cranks.  Is it normal for them to be so hard to get in?  They’re round, so I can’t use a wrench and it’s very hard to do.  Any suggestions?

I have come across pedals that would only accept hex wrenches.  Look at the axle on the crank end to see if there is a spot for a hex wrench. 2)  Is it best to get Time shoes with Time pedals?  I’ve had some friends (who happen to be roadies) tell me the best thing to do is get a matching system since adapters add unneeded weight and just dont work as well as the "real thing."

Just make sure that the shoes are Time compatible, some aren’t. 3)   Can anyone recommend  a good set of aero  bars to start with?   Most of my roadie friends have recommended Profile Air Strykes, but I thought it would be better to get the opinion of some triathletes.

AirStrykes are wonderful.  Some bike shops will put on aerobars to try out.  I did this with mine.  It’s a great help when trying to find the subtle differences between them. Shane Jensen

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