Question:

I should be in the Olympics if I swam 1500 in 14:30 I was generally more pleased this year as a competitor in this year’s race, last year was a 3 on a scale of 10, this year a 7.  Here are my pros/cons: Pros 1) T1 bags delivered on time, I wasn’t taking chances and handed my stuff to my wife, but from what others told me it went well. 2) The streets were in better shape this year, a lot less bumping and jarring.  The streets weren’t half as littered with stuff that had been bounced off peoples bikes. 3) Good marshalling, a lot of warnings issued (at least to the group of guys holding my wheel) which seemed to do the trick. 4) Easy access to T2 gear, nice to be able to get in get out and out of Downtown LA quickly. Cons 1) Mis-measured swim course, apparently they measured at high tide and the race started at low tide. 2) No water buckets this year to wash feet. 3) Not very spectator friendly, hard/expensive parking, poor crowd control and in some cases too much control, poor viewing spots. 4) Poor T2 location, it was one long (for 3000 competitors, very long) street, they need to find a empty parking lot or park.

Hi Tacguy, I have to agree with you 100% on your note. However: How can you put on a race with over 3000 people in it and have the swim course short by at least 1/3 of a mile? I usually swim about a 30 minute 1500 meters, but came out of the water in 18 minutes! They fixed all of the problems from previous years. The swim is the weakest part of my tri, but I do appreciate at least semi accurate course measurement. Mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after listening to various sources complain about this race the last few years, I was determined to see if it was as bad as everyone said. This morning was a fantastic day for a race, great weather and ultimately a race that was well organized. Here were some of the things that went right: Shuttles – On time! Porta-potties – Several! Race Start – On Time ( and that is alot to say about a race that has several thousand )! Bike course closure – Well moarked and ALOT of room; the whole side of a 2-3 lane roadway to be exact! Roadway – Clean ( this is a first in L.A. )! Course Volunteers – Giving ample and extra direction, that was correct! and lastly, bags returned from T1 to the finish by the end of your race! I was very happy with the race over-all. How did your race go?

Response:

Did the elites swim the same course ?? or at a significantly different time ?? The splits listed for them don’t look out of line… although their overall times and bike splits suggest the bike course was short. ++Mark.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tacguy, I have to agree with you 100% on your note. However: How can you put on a race with over 3000 people in it and have the swim course short by at least 1/3 of a mile? I usually swim about a 30 minute 1500 meters, but came out of the water in 18 minutes!

Response:

Did the elites swim the same course ?? or at a significantly different time ?? The splits listed for them don’t look out of line… although their overall times and bike splits suggest the bike course was short.

Was it a different wave?  Another thing Pacific Sports is known for skimping on is adequate anchors for their buoys. In Cleveland they’re inside a breakwall, and even then, the only one that never drifts is lashed to a channel marker.

Response:

They adjusted the course for the pros once they saw a lot of the age groupers pulling off sub 20′ times.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did the elites swim the same course ?? or at a significantly different time ?? The splits listed for them don’t look out of line… although their overall times and bike splits suggest the bike course was short. ++Mark. Hi Tacguy, I have to agree with you 100% on your note. However: How can you put on a race with over 3000 people in it and have the swim course short by at least 1/3 of a mile? I usually swim about a 30 minute 1500 meters, but came out of the water in 18 minutes!

Response:

Why?  Because they’re a bunch of ripoff artists just looking to make a quick buck, and that’s the way a former race sponsor described them as well.  Their races cost twice as much as other local races, and are always fiascos.  Wherever the money’s going, it doesn’t go to serving the participants.  Things like no cold water anywhere on the course or after the race, when it’s 90F or hotter out, a water station with no cups – women with gallon water jugs shouting "tilt your head back and open your mouth"

I’m sure there’s an innappropriate comment to make here, but I’m not going to do it -Harold

Response:

Why?  Because they’re a bunch of ripoff artists just looking to make a quick buck, and that’s the way a former race sponsor described them as well.  Their races cost twice as much as other local races, and are always fiascos.  Wherever the money’s going, it doesn’t go to serving the participants.  Things like no cold water anywhere on the course or after the race, when it’s 90F or hotter out, a water station with no cups – women with gallon water jugs shouting "tilt your head back and open your mouth" I’m sure there’s an innappropriate comment to make here, but I’m not going to do it

I already did it for you, at the water stop, to the woman with the water, during the race. And yes, because there were several of them spaced out along 75 ft. of curb, I managed to make all the comments that are running through your twisted little head.

Response:

They are the proud director’s of National City- Rock & Roll – Metropolitan Bank Tri in Cleveland.  The big downtown race.   They have destroyed this event, so no wonder the sponsorship has changed 3 times in the last 5 years.   There was a big discussion a while back on Duathlon.com about how they messed up National City (which was the ITU world Championship in 1996)

Yup, and National City pulled their sponsorship because Jack Caress was a scam artist who always had his hand out, and none of the money seemed to find it’s way to services for the participants. The races are overpriced.

You have an amazing capacity for understatement. I also throw in this nugget (Just because I know it will piss off Harold and the penguin).  They tried to have three races an Olympic (main event) a sprint (okay I’ll buy, for the beginner’s who want to have fun), but they also added this Super Sprint (which was like a 200m swim, 8 mile bike and a 1.2 mile run), which wasn’t for kids, but meant for adult "triathletes" kind of an embarrassingly short race if you ask me.  This whole gala of events (3 races occuring simultaneously on an 8 mile bike loop) meant the first race started at like 6:30 am, which is just a tad bit too early for Cleveland (Hey I can understand if it was Arizona, where the sun actually shines) plus you have athletes going drastically different speeds on a dangerous bike course.

Don’t forget that the bike course is so rough, you find water bottle CAGES along the side of the road afterwards.  Do NOT do this race without threadlocking every fastener on your bike. I also saw a really bad bike wreck during the race.  The road surface is very poor and I saw some guy hit a pot hole or a seam and just bite it bad. I think he was out cold.

You saw just one?  I’ve seen dozens over the years at that race.

Response:

I’m not sure why it is taking Pacific Sports 3 years to get the race right. Anyone done other PS races? They are the proud director’s of National City- Rock & Roll –

Metropolitan Bank Tri in Cleveland.  The big downtown race.   They have destroyed this event, so no wonder the sponsorship has changed 3 times in the last 5 years.   There was a big discussion a while back on Duathlon.com about how they messed up National City (which was the ITU world Championship in 1996) The races are overpriced. I also throw in this nugget (Just because I know it will piss off Harold and the penguin).  They tried to have three races an Olympic (main event) a sprint (okay I’ll buy, for the beginner’s who want to have fun), but they also added this Super Sprint (which was like a 200m swim, 8 mile bike and a 1.2 mile run), which wasn’t for kids, but meant for adult "triathletes" kind of an embarrassingly short race if you ask me.  This whole gala of events (3 races occuring simultaneously on an 8 mile bike loop) meant the first race started at like 6:30 am, which is just a tad bit too early for Cleveland (Hey I can understand if it was Arizona, where the sun actually shines) plus you have athletes going drastically different speeds on a dangerous bike course. They also have a pro race, which is invite only, with only ten pros.  Why limit the number of pros?  This is just stupid in my book, but I guess I am not a marketing genius like the folks at Pacific Sports LLC. The final thing, is results.  They use the most ridiculous format for posting them on the web (just look and you’ll see, unlesst they changed it). Plus they never even proof read them.  Even 2 days after the race they had two guys listed in the top 20, with bike splits like 15 minutes faster than everyone else.  Why? the bike course is 3 loops (these guys only did two) The fact that an RD would post results with such obvious errors in them just shows they don’t even care about a quality event, and are too incompetent to time it right and to publish correct results.  I emailed them with a list of complaints (only time I ever complained to a RD) and they did fix the results within a week. I also saw a really bad bike wreck during the race.  The road surface is very poor and I saw some guy hit a pot hole or a seam and just bite it bad. I think he was out cold. BTW the last time I did it (2000) the fastest splits for the "1500m" swim was 11:00 and change, so they are quite good at shorting the swim.

Response:

For the Olympic distance race it was a loop. Straight out (west), then left around a buoy (southwest), then right (west), then right (north).  Right again (east), another right (southeast) towards center, then left (east) to the beach.  After writing that I’m surprised I didn’t get lost.

So you had left and right turns?  I’ve never seen a course do that – triathletes aren’t that smart in the middle of a race.  I suppose for a 1500m course you either need 2 laps, or something like that.   In any event, definitely not an issue of currents, then.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

2 lefts, 2 rights, with buoys on the right for the back stretch, here’s the link to the map: http://www.latriathlon.com/Images/Maps/02LATMap.gif If I remember correctly there were more buoys in the water then represented in the picture. It really wasn’t that bad once in the water, it just sounds bad on paper. It was really short though.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the Olympic distance race it was a loop. Straight out (west), then left around a buoy (southwest), then right (west), then right (north).  Right again (east), another right (southeast) towards center, then left (east) to the beach.  After writing that I’m surprised I didn’t get lost. So you had left and right turns?  I’ve never seen a course do that – triathletes aren’t that smart in the middle of a race.  I suppose for a 1500m course you either need 2 laps, or something like that. In any event, definitely not an issue of currents, then. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

I’m not sure why it is taking Pacific Sports 3 years to get the race right. Anyone done other PS races?

It’s been about ten years in Cleveland, and they STILL haven’t gotten it right. They’ve chased away three sponsors, and another race here, the Towpath marathon, the sponsor just pulled them off of after two years.  They tried to start their own marathon, and it never got off the ground. Why?  Because they’re a bunch of ripoff artists just looking to make a quick buck, and that’s the way a former race sponsor described them as well.  Their races cost twice as much as other local races, and are always fiascos.  Wherever the money’s going, it doesn’t go to serving the participants.  Things like no cold water anywhere on the course or after the race, when it’s 90F or hotter out, a water station with no cups – women with gallon water jugs shouting "tilt your head back and open your mouth" A run course over century old cobblestone streets with gaps between  the stones wider than your foot and up to six inches deep.  less than 10 porta johns for 1200 plus participants. A marathon in a national park with no toilet facilities at the finish line without an intervening 20 minute shuttle ride, IF you don’t have to wait 40 minutes for the shuttle.

Response:

Cons 1) Mis-measured swim course, apparently they measured at high tide and the race started at low tide. How can you put on a race with over 3000 people in it and have the swim course short by at least 1/3 of a mile? I usually swim about a 30 minute 1500 meters, but came out of the water in 18 minutes!

Was there a favorable longshore current?  The difference between low and high tide on an LA beach shouldn’t add up to 500m.  But yeah, 30 to 18 sounds like a short course if you ended up anywhere near the swim start.   — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

Was there a favorable longshore current?  The difference between low and high tide on an LA beach shouldn’t add up to 500m.  But yeah, 30 to 18 sounds like a short course if you ended up anywhere near the swim start.

If it’s a question of a natural phenomenon, or Pacific Sports screwing up, the latter is the more reliable bet.

Response:

It was a very long run in and run out of the surf.  I should have done a sub 25′, I looked at my watch when I stepped out and it read 14:30.  It took ~0:00:45 to run in, so I would say total water time was sub 14:00. Either my extra swim training is really paying off or Pacific Sports screwed up – I tend believe the later as well.  By most peoples account and there times at that distance the swim seemed to be ~1000m. I’m not sure why it is taking Pacific Sports 3 years to get the race right. Anyone done other PS races?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was there a favorable longshore current?  The difference between low and high tide on an LA beach shouldn’t add up to 500m.  But yeah, 30 to 18 sounds like a short course if you ended up anywhere near the swim start. If it’s a question of a natural phenomenon, or Pacific Sports screwing up, the latter is the more reliable bet.

Response:

For the Olympic distance race it was a loop. Straight out (west), then left around a buoy (southwest), then right (west), then right (north).  Right again (east), another right (southeast) towards center, then left (east) to the beach.  After writing that I’m surprised I didn’t get lost. So in short yes, the start and finish were very close.  This was a course change from the last two years when we started south of Venice Pier and headed North.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cons 1) Mis-measured swim course, apparently they measured at high tide and the race started at low tide. How can you put on a race with over 3000 people in it and have the swim course short by at least 1/3 of a mile? I usually swim about a 30 minute 1500 meters, but came out of the water in 18 minutes! Was there a favorable longshore current?  The difference between low and high tide on an LA beach shouldn’t add up to 500m.  But yeah, 30 to 18 sounds like a short course if you ended up anywhere near the swim start. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

Response:

Well, after listening to various sources complain about this race the last few years, I was determined to see if it was as bad as everyone said. This morning was a fantastic day for a race, great weather and ultimately a race that was well organized. Here were some of the things that went right: Shuttles – On time! Porta-potties – Several! Race Start – On Time ( and that is alot to say about a race that has several thousand )! Bike course closure – Well moarked and ALOT of room; the whole side of a 2-3 lane roadway to be exact! Roadway – Clean ( this is a first in L.A. )! Course Volunteers – Giving ample and extra direction, that was correct! and lastly, bags returned from T1 to the finish by the end of your race! I was very happy with the race over-all. How did your race go?

Response:

Hi Tacguy, I have to agree with you 100% on your note. However: How can you put on a race with over 3000 people in it and have the swim course short by at least 1/3 of a mile? I usually swim about a 30 minute 1500 meters, but came out of the water in 18 minutes! They fixed all of the problems from previous years. The swim is the weakest part of my tri, but I do appreciate at least semi accurate course measurement. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, after listening to various sources complain about this race the last few years, I was determined to see if it was as bad as everyone said. This morning was a fantastic day for a race, great weather and ultimately a race that was well organized. Here were some of the things that went right: Shuttles – On time! Porta-potties – Several! Race Start – On Time ( and that is alot to say about a race that has several thousand )! Bike course closure – Well moarked and ALOT of room; the whole side of a 2-3 lane roadway to be exact! Roadway – Clean ( this is a first in L.A. )! Course Volunteers – Giving ample and extra direction, that was correct! and lastly, bags returned from T1 to the finish by the end of your race! I was very happy with the race over-all. How did your race go?

Response:

Question:

for what it’s worth, Thomas Hellreigel managed a pretty quick bike split on a pair of Cosmic Carbones there this summer.  of course, that might have something to do with his legs, but i’m sure he’s not stupid about picking his gear either. good luck! mike

Response:

for what it’s worth, Thomas Hellreigel managed a pretty quick bike split on a pair of Cosmic Carbones there this summer.  of course, that might have something to do with his legs, but i’m sure he’s not stupid about picking his gear either.

Didn’t Cameron Brown use a rear disk?  He was 3rd.  That doesn’t suck. I’m sure he’s not stupid about his gear either. —  Gus Coll                     o    "Life is short.                   __o       </_    Learn fast!"     /o__       _ <_     __/      

Response:

He won’t be stupid but he’s also paid to use them! Any way over the IM distance the course must be VERY hilly to favor weight over aero. By the way are the Elite much lighter than say Spinergy or HED? SERMA

Response:

He won’t be stupid but he’s also paid to use them! Any way over the IM distance the course must be VERY hilly to favor weight over aero. By the way are the Elite much lighter than say Spinergy or HED? SERMA

According to Damon Rinard, they are about the same, within about 50 grams. Rick "And it must be all uphill, and steep, to favor weight over aero" Denney

Response:

For a hilly race like IM Lake Placid how much aero advantage is there between an inexpensive, lightweight  race wheelset like the Mavic Cosmic Elite advertised in Performance over a deeper rim wheel ( but much more expensive ) like a hed jet? — Chuck Heimberg IMUSA 2000

Response:

I need advice.  I am a 14 year old junior triathlete looking to buy my first race wheel(s).  Can I get some help from you experienced racers on what would be the best investment for my limited dollar? Since I can probably only afford used what should I look for in regards to wear?  If I can only afford one is front or rear better? I don’t really know the differnce between tubulars and clinchers. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks, Christian

Response:

Christian – You will find lots of stuff on race wheels. Good luck, gordo

Response:

Question:

Hey, having been through that 5 times, I recommed the following: 1) take a VRC and tape the race. Some years have better coverage than others, but they always have the finish line in the broadcast. You can see how friends finish, how you finished, see transition movements by tape. 2) don’t drive the course during the race. It is crowded and dangerous. Maybe learn the backstreets so your friends can go from finish line to Skaha Lake without cutting through the race course. 3) After you finish, relax, take a shower, go to Theo’s for dinner, watch the finishers run past the resturant while you wait on dinner. 4) After dinner, walk from the resturant down main street and support the late finishers. Go to the finish line and sit in the bleachers. Watch the people who are finishing after 10pm; they have been out there a long time and not only need the support, but the crowd is very emotional and it makes great memory. Good Luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, my housemates are coming to watch me race. What would be the best spots to watch the race in progress – not necessarily only around the start/finish/transition area? Does it make any sense to drive around (on those roads being open to the traffic) – I can imagine it could be a nightmare. Thanks for any suggestions, sasa — (206) 685-9305 Dept of Atmospheric Sciences University of Washington, Box 351640 Seattle, WA  98195-1640

Response:

Hi, my housemates are coming to watch me race. What would be the best spots to watch the race in progress – not necessarily only around the start/finish/transition area? Does it make any sense to drive around (on those roads being open to the traffic) – I can imagine it could be a nightmare.

Ugh, please don’t encourage them to drive on the marathon course or the bike course.  The race literature specifically requests this, and on behalf of other racers, so do I!  The less traffic out there the better. Thanks! TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

Response:

You can also have them drive to OK Falls after most of the cyclist are back to watch your marathon turnaround. They will use HWY 97 not the marathon route to get there.

Response:

I forgot that, when I last did IMC that was part of the bike course. Lloyd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can also have them drive to OK Falls after most of the cyclist are back to watch your marathon turnaround. They will use HWY 97 not the marathon route to get there.

Response:

Hi, my housemates are coming to watch me race. What would be the best spots to watch the race in progress – not necessarily only around the start/finish/transition area? Does it make any sense to drive around (on those roads being open to the traffic) – I can imagine it could be a nightmare. Thanks for any suggestions, sasa — (206) 685-9305 Dept of Atmospheric Sciences University of Washington, Box 351640 Seattle, WA  98195-1640

Response:

The end of the swim and then tell them to take their time and drive up to yellow lake. It could be a long wait but this is one of the slowest points on the course. It is best to park a car on the Penticton side of the shop at yellow lake and walk to the lake so you can leave with interfering with the cyclists. Lloyd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, my housemates are coming to watch me race. What would be the best spots to watch the race in progress – not necessarily only around the start/finish/transition area? Does it make any sense to drive around (on those roads being open to the traffic) – I can imagine it could be a nightmare. Thanks for any suggestions, sasa — (206) 685-9305 Dept of Atmospheric Sciences University of Washington, Box 351640 Seattle, WA  98195-1640

Response:

Question:

Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you trying to complete it, or do it fast? I fall into the just-wanting-to-get-it-over-with category, trying to do it with the minimum of swim training. I figured that time was far better spent training on the bike or run, where you will spend most of your time in the race, rather than spending many hours in the pool trying to hone a minute or two off my time. I hit the swim speed plateau a while back, where any increase in speed is going to take a lot more training. What I needed to do was be able to maintain my mediocre style for 3800m I spent between one and two hours a week in the pool preparing for my first Ironman. One session would be the usual club training session, usually less than an hour of interval type stuff, but with lots of chat. The other session would be a long, boring, steady swim. This built up to doing the distance. This would take me about 1:15 to 1:20. It didn’t make me fast, but it gave me the confidence of being able to keep a steady pace and not feeling too knackered at the end of it. I also kept track of my lap times, which again helped me maintain a steady pace (not too quick at the start, but forcing me to think about style towards the end). The big boost on the day of the race was my wetsuit – it immediately knocked about 10% off my time. Its a bit like training on an old heavy bike, and then switching to a lightweight racing frame. I used the wetsuit in a few short races, and one session of about an hour in a pool prior to the race just to check out for any chafing (no rubbing experienced – thanks QRman!) You have probably guessed that I don’t enjoy swimming too much. Strange thing was I really enjoyed the ironman swim. I knew I could relax and take it easy, that I had a long day ahead of me and this was just a warm up. I ended up really enjoying swimming from group to group, tagging behind people and picking the best line from bouy to bouy. I was quite disappointed when I hit the final leg and had to get out! Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

–

Response:

How much a wet suit helps depends on the swimmer.  I believe it helps weak swimmers much more than strong swimmers.  I consider myself a little better than average swimmer.  Actually, I would be considered bad compared to most people who swam in college, but good when compared to the average triathlete.  In an Ironman distance swim my swim time improved from 1:04 without and wet suit to 1:00 with the suit.  The difference in my case is due to body position.  I tend not to kick my feet enough.  This causes poor position in the water (legs sink).  With the suit on, my position and speed improve. Really good swimmers already have good position in the water so they tend not to gain as much. I would recommend (especially to poor swimmers) practicing with the suit on.  I found that the different position in the water meant I was arching my back more.  If I don’t stretch properly before a race I get out of the water with a very stiff back.  Just some observations… Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul —

Response:

Open water is quite different also.  In a pool I can swim a 19 min 1.5k in open water without a wet suit usually about 26 min with a wetsuit about 22-23 min.  There’s a big varience.  I use a wetsuin in everything except sprints.  I think their as valuable as race wheels. Good luck mike

Response:

Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul

‘cos I’m a crap swimmer. I have a weak kick, and my body position in the water is poor. On long swims especially my kick is not much more than a counterbalance to my shoulder rotation. The wetsuit brings my legs and hips up to the surface. Over 3.8km, my time dropped from 1:15 in the pool to 1:08 open water with a wetsuit (both ‘easy’ swims). My open water 1500m time drops from about 29min to 27min. My 400m time (in the pool) drops from 6:28  to 5:50. Other people have pointed out that fast swimmers benefit less – and that’s very true. Fast swimmers already have a good body position, a wetsuit won’t improve it that much. Got to be a good wetsuit as well. I used to have a cheap Spartan Triflex suit, which fitted badly around the shoulders and wasn’t very flexible. I wasn’t much faster at all since the lack of flexibility meant that I couldn’t extend my arms properly. I got a QR fullsuit early this year, and that made a massive difference. You do need to try it out first, because it does feel different from no suit at all, but you should be able to achieve an identical stroke with a good suit as without. As to predicting a swim time – allow for inaccurately measured courses, and navigational errors. Get some open water practise in first, the joys of OW navigation have to be experienced! Being able to swim head up, sighting bouys and landmarks, being able to swim in a straight line, and bilateral breathing are all useful/essential. Also there’s the possible melee at the start, waves, wind and weed to deal with. Having said that, one of my most memorable triathlon experiences was a 2700m swim in a river, with the sun glinting off the surface, all the wild life on the banks (including a dog trying to rescue me). magic. Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

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Thanks Joel, I played water-polo for ten years, so the "melee" probably won’t bother me, and I used to do a lot of surf swimming in OZ (twelve years ago, admittedly), so the open water aspect’c not a bother. It was the relative speed I was interested in. p.s.with a 6:30′ish 400m you’d be in top 10% of swimmers in the sprint events I do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul ‘cos I’m a crap swimmer. I have a weak kick, and my body position in the water is poor. On long swims especially my kick is not much more than a counterbalance to my shoulder rotation. The wetsuit brings my legs and hips up to the surface. Over 3.8km, my time dropped from 1:15 in the pool to 1:08 open water with a wetsuit (both ‘easy’ swims). My open water 1500m time drops from about 29min to 27min. My 400m time (in the pool) drops from 6:28  to 5:50. Other people have pointed out that fast swimmers benefit less – and that’s very true. Fast swimmers already have a good body position, a wetsuit won’t improve it that much. Got to be a good wetsuit as well. I used to have a cheap Spartan Triflex suit, which fitted badly around the shoulders and wasn’t very flexible. I wasn’t much faster at all since the lack of flexibility meant that I couldn’t extend my arms properly. I got a QR fullsuit early this year, and that made a massive difference. You do need to try it out first, because it does feel different from no suit at all, but you should be able to achieve an identical stroke with a good suit as without. As to predicting a swim time – allow for inaccurately measured courses, and navigational errors. Get some open water practise in first, the joys of OW navigation have to be experienced! Being able to swim head up, sighting bouys and landmarks, being able to swim in a straight line, and bilateral breathing are all useful/essential. Also there’s the possible melee at the start, waves, wind and weed to deal with. Having said that, one of my most memorable triathlon experiences was a 2700m swim in a river, with the sun glinting off the surface, all the wild life on the banks (including a dog trying to rescue me). magic. Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com

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Give me some ideas about how to prepare for the ironman swim. Should I do long swims or what?

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Are you trying to complete it, or do it fast? I fall into the just-wanting-to-get-it-over-with category, trying to do it with the minimum of swim training. I figured that time was far better spent training on the bike or run, where you will spend most of your time in the race, rather than spending many hours in the pool trying to hone a minute or two off my time. I hit the swim speed plateau a while back, where any increase in speed is going to take a lot more training. What I needed to do was be able to maintain my mediocre style for 3800m I spent between one and two hours a week in the pool preparing for my first Ironman. One session would be the usual club training session, usually less than an hour of interval type stuff, but with lots of chat. The other session would be a long, boring, steady swim. This built up to doing the distance. This would take me about 1:15 to 1:20. It didn’t make me fast, but it gave me the confidence of being able to keep a steady pace and not feeling too knackered at the end of it. I also kept track of my lap times, which again helped me maintain a steady pace (not too quick at the start, but forcing me to think about style towards the end). The big boost on the day of the race was my wetsuit – it immediately knocked about 10% off my time. Its a bit like training on an old heavy bike, and then switching to a lightweight racing frame. I used the wetsuit in a few short races, and one session of about an hour in a pool prior to the race just to check out for any chafing (no rubbing experienced – thanks QRman!) You have probably guessed that I don’t enjoy swimming too much. Strange thing was I really enjoyed the ironman swim. I knew I could relax and take it easy, that I had a long day ahead of me and this was just a warm up. I ended up really enjoying swimming from group to group, tagging behind people and picking the best line from bouy to bouy. I was quite disappointed when I hit the final leg and had to get out! Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Give me some ideas about how to prepare for the ironman swim. Should I do long swims or what?

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Question:

For sale: Brand New Titanium Triathlon Bicycle (700c) 76 degree seat tube angle 56cm seat tube/top tube Bi-sectional ovalized top tube Oversized stays Giant Carbon Bladed Fork Giant Carbon Bladed Seat Post Available as frame/fork, or with Ultegra 9spd, X-Wing aerobars, Specialized trispokes Please e.mail for information. I am hoping to sell this bike as soon as possible (it is a tad bit too big. OOOPS!!!) and it will be going for an outrageously low price. Cheers, Grant Check out www.xeroindustries.com for the scoop on the X-Wings.

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For sale: Brand New Titanium Triathlon Bicycle (700c) Please e.mail for information. I am hoping to sell this bike as soon as possible (it is a tad bit too big. OOOPS!!!) and it will be going for an outrageously low price.

What is the problem with including the asking price so that newsgroup readers can rule it in or out without the hassle of having e-mail you and wait for a reply? grouch…… grouch…… Hugh Enox

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Question:

I found the "official" IMC bike jersey far too ugly to purchase.

        Tricia, I am shocked! My bike jersey I bought is a beautiful creation, Picasso couldn’t have done a better job. I wear my jersey on long rides and find myself fending of large crowds of art students begging to gaze at the lovely garment. This is simply my way of saying, "I refuse to accept that the jersey I spent a lot of money on and consiquently almost ran out of gas in the Mid-West because I ran out of money due to spending money on an ugly jersey which I will wear anyway!" I like my jersey David "I’m going to wear it anyway!" Barclay IMC 1997: 11:55:59 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

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p.s. I hope they’ve improved the quality of the clothing since I last did IMC – I wasn’t impressed with the cost/durabilty ratio of the stuff I bought.

Candidly, I found all of the IMC clothing pretty damned ugly in ‘97!  So ugly that all I wanted out of all of it was just a simple tank-top T.  I hope they come up with some more attractive designs this year.   I found the "official" IMC bike jersey far too ugly to purchase.  The happy alternative was to pick up one of the Bike Barn’s own jerseys.  Only problem there, however, was they sold out during race week.  By the time I went to buy one after the race they had no Larges left, so I was stuck actually getting a women’s Large (women’s jerseys are always too short on me, and this one is no exception). Keeping my fingers crossed for ‘98… Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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i have the catalog- you can call 1-800 ironman or check out www.ironmanhawaii.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anyone know a web page or company that has official ironman merchandise? I’m specifically looking for a bike jersey with the logo, etc. on it. Thanks Chuck  My local running stores have little with Triathlon merchandise, litature, and the such.  Any place in the Virgnia Beach/Norfolk area and as far north as Harrisburg PA that would carry this kind of material? Net stuff would be good also. Howard The most powerful force in nature for good or evil is the power of             the mind.

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Chuck, You can get the stuff through the IM website: www.ironman.com

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anyone know a web page or company that has official ironman merchandise? I’m specifically looking for a bike jersey with the logo, etc. on it. Thanks Chuck

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anyone know a web page or company that has official ironman merchandise? I’m specifically looking for a bike jersey with the logo, etc. on it. Thanks Chuck

 My local running stores have little with Triathlon merchandise, litature, and the such.  Any place in the Virgnia Beach/Norfolk area and as far north as Harrisburg PA that would carry this kind of material? Net stuff would be good also. Howard The most powerful force in nature for good or evil is the power of             the mind.

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anyone know a web page or company that has official ironman merchandise? I’m specifically looking for a bike jersey with the logo, etc. on it. Thanks Chuck

I’ve seen ads for a catalog at 1/800/IRONMAN. Cheers, Andrew — Andrew Peabody Miami

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I’ve seen ads for a catalog at 1/800/IRONMAN.

… And right from http://www.ironmantri.com… "Welcome to the On-Line Site of the Ironman: — Qualifying information can be found in the ‘The Qualifying Ironman Races’ pages – Breaking News about the Ironman can be found in ‘THE PRESS ROOM’ – To order Official Ironman Merchandise, call 1-(800)-IRONMAN. " Right you were! Ironman Canada jewellery is available at the ironman.ca website.  Http://www.ironman.ca Tom p.s. I hope they’ve improved the quality of the clothing since I last did IMC – I wasn’t impressed with the cost/durabilty ratio of the stuff I bought.

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Question:

I saw Welch spectating at the San Diego Triathlon Challenge on Saturday and asked him about his condition for IMH.  He said he’s been going to a therapist daily, and currently, his range of motion in his right shoulder is about 85%. (up from about 50% the day after his crash in Boulder.) He’s swimming daily, is leaving for Hawaii in a couple of days, and hopes and plans to be 100% on race day.   He was personable and friendly, and spoke like he WILL be there.  My money is on Greg.

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He was personable and friendly, and spoke like he WILL be there.  My money is on Greg.

Well, that’s good news. I guess I misread the comments on the Inside-Tri web site. <shrug ER, AMTV, Triathlon! http://www.cisfi28.demon.co.uk/

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That’s the great thing about r.s.t.  Whatever our question, someone’s got the answer.  No better way to end a debate than to go directly to the source.  Thanks, B. Evansitt, for your on-the-spot report!  Glad to hear Welchie will be in the hunt and make IMH even more interesting by giving the Germans a "run for the money." –Lee ("Call me ‘Tri-Guy’ if no one else has claimed the handle") Crumbaugh

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Question:

Oh yeah, another question: what does "RST" stand for?                                         Le Toastman

rec.sport.triathlon ^   ^     ^ R   S     T Welcome to the club – from another recently "joined" club member. — |               Stephen "Trib" Collins              | |Analyst/Programmer/Webmaster, Computer Law Services| |13 Curtin Place CURTIN ACT 2605 Australia (GMT +10)| |        +61 6 2826888  Fax:   +61 6 2828282        | |     TRIATHLON!    o  "The best view of one’s      | |            __o   <|  soul is from beyond the     | |          _ < _  _   edge, looking back."        | |   __^o_ (_)/ (_)  /                               |

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Sandman is this weekend in Gulf Shores AL.  The weekend of Oct 12th is the Santa Rosa Island Triathlon in Pensacola Florida (a new sprint race). And, as previously mentioned the Seaside SouthWalton Sportsfest is the first weekend in Nov.    After that races don’t start again until March & April (duathlon and triathlon that is).    For more information as races are coming up you can contact me, Karl Dauphinais–Gulf Coast Area Triathletes, or Therese Bynum’s Team Magic is out of Birmingham (they put on a lot of races, I don’t have the number on hand, but it should be in any triathlon mag).     Good luck Karl Dauphinais, Director, Gulf Coast Area Triathletes Box 922, Daphne, AL 36526  (334) 621-8318

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Does anyone know of any triathlons this fall in Tenn/Ala/Miss/Kentucky?  I just did my first Tri, the Music City Triathlon here in Nashville and would like to do one more short or international length one this season.  Oh yeah, another question: what does "RST" stand for?                                         Le Toastman

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Does anyone know of any triathlons this fall in Tenn/Ala/Miss/Kentucky?  I just did my first Tri, the Music City Triathlon here in Nashville and would like to do one more short or international length one this season.  Oh yeah, another question: what does "RST" stand for?                                         Le Toastman

Slim pickings until next spring. The first weekend in November their is weekend of activity in Flordia, near Destin. A dualathon, half marathon, 10k and sprint triathlon are held that weekend, Sportsfest is the name I think. Check the triathlon magazines, I recall an several ads for races in Georgia and South Carolina this fall. Gulf Shores, Alabama has the Sandman sprint this weekend. Jack Rawls

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Question:

Anyone have a good recommendation for a podiatrist in the san francisco bay area that really knows about running in particular, orthodics, etc.? Thanks! Wes Stander

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Wes, A good customer of Craig’s at the Saratoga bike shop is one, and I remember he said if I ever needed a good podiatrist, to go to him. I met him, he is very athletic. I think his name was Tom. (?) Craig’s number is 408-867-8617, I’m sure he knows how to contact him. If not, Frank Kenny would know, 408-998-0971. Regards, Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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Question:

Stress fractures DO NOT show up on traditional X-rays, you need a bone scan done. It takes 4-12 weeks depending on severity and location of fracture Recovery exercises and allowable activity during recovery depend on location of fracture. I.E. a femoral neck fracture could disable the leg for life if not taken care of with SERIOUS rest(NO ACTIVITY)while fractures to smaller bones in the foot you can do almost anything else while recovering. DISCLAIMER:  I AM NO DOCTOR, JUST a tri-geek with stress fracture experience. — Brendan R. Leitch                           Bell Northern Research Ltd. DMS Transport Layer Messaging Voice: (613) 763-9425            FAX: (613) 763-8864         ESN: 393-9425                  ESN: 393-8864 Surface Mail: MS 145, P.O. BOX 3511, Station C, Ottawa, Canada, K1Y 4H7

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Knock on wood, I have never gone thru stress fractures and I surely do symphatize with anyone who does. I will pass on one piece of advice from an excellent triathlete who used to have that problem. It does not help recovery but is a good preventive step. One bright doctor (and they are really rare in my opinion if bright is defined as symphathetic to athlete’s needs) told her that strength building would help and devised a simple scheme. She used to watch TV with a pillowcase over her ankle with light weights while she rocked her foot in a particular way that slowly built the necessary muscles. I never watched this but have noted strethcing classes that have a motion that is supposed to help. Once you get past this particular episode, see if you can find someone to help you find a routine that will prevent a reoccurrence…Good luck!

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thought was Achilles tendinitis, which was later upgraded to Plantar Fasciitis. All conventional treatments have been ineffective, stretching, strengthening, ice, heat, cortisone, orthotics etc etc.  My right heel area still aches after I have been on my feet for more than a few minutes and gets worse the longer I am on my feet.  The aching often extends up my shin and down to my toes.  I am now being told that maybe I have a stress fracture of the calcaneum, although it doesn’t show up on X-rays or bone scans.         Does anyone out there have any experience with stress fractures ?  Is it possible it would not be visible on X-rays abd scans ?  How long do they take to heal ?  Is it reasonable that continuing to walk on it would prevent healing for more than 2 years ?  Before i take the drastic step of a fracture brace and crutches it would be nice to know of other’s experience.         Thnaks — Dr. Chris Davis Physics Department University of Louisville Louisville, KY 40292 (502) 588-0852

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