Question:

Hi, Could anyone give me some general information on triathlons, and trainning for them. I am completely new to the sport, but not to hard training, having reached an international level in Boxing. Hopefully I will get to compete in my first race in Australia, so I was hoping someone from out there in Sydney might be able to let me know of any good training facitlities. Thankyou in advance for any feed back you may have, Sam.

Response:

Check www.TriNewbies.com for some excellent training plans. also ceck out the Clubs listing at my site for clubs in your area. http://www.aussietri.com/clubs.html Feel free to email  if you have questions — Kindest Regards Lee Vickary (aka Namsul Melek) http://www.aussietri.com/                        __o         O  /o__           -<,         /// ^^^^^^^    ( ) / ( )       /                                   …./ PS: Your name isn’t Mark Jenssen is it. He’s a guy(legend) who taught me boxing……

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Could anyone give me some general information on triathlons, and trainning for them. I am completely new to the sport, but not to hard training, having reached an international level in Boxing. Hopefully I will get to compete in my first race in Australia, so I was hoping someone from out there in Sydney might be able to let me know of any good training facitlities. Thankyou in advance for any feed back you may have, Sam.

Response:

Question:

Also realise the the gps is giving you a 2D (flat) distance and is not taking into account vertical (hill) distance.

So true.  That is why I won’t even think about getting the Timex SD(http://www.timex.com/spd).  I mean a GPS that does not do altitude.  I have not seen anywhere that it is capable of it. I looked at a GPS once and even the altitude on that thing would change quite a bit, even if it was never moved.  Heck, I think my Polar S710 does better on Altitude than that particular GPS. It would be pretty funny, if they put an altitude that did not work very well on that watch and then people that would start freaking out.  I mean, I’m sure it would tell some people they were going down hill, when they were in fact going up a steep hill.  ;-) Thanks,         Roger

Response:

My handheld GPS (Garmin eTrex Vista) is usually showing a shorter distance, as it cuts corners, and does not log if it loses track of the satellites. That said, if I can keep it locked on, my experience tells me that it is usually 2-5% short. If You walk a straight line, it is way better, but usually I do follow turning paths.

Do you have much trouble keeping your Vista locked on satellites? I’ve been testing one for a colleague at work and have had problems keeping it tracking. I’ve used my Garmin 12XL as a control, and it didn’t miss a beat. I questioned Garmin about it, and they claim the two units have the same patch antenna and get the same reception, but didn’t offer to explain the differences in error readings that I was getting. Dot in Alaska

Response:

Also realise the the gps is giving you a 2D (flat) distance and is not taking into account vertical (hill) distance. So true.  That is why I won’t even think about getting the Timex SD(http://www.timex.com/spd).  I mean a GPS that does not do altitude.  I have not seen anywhere that it is capable of it. I looked at a GPS once and even the altitude on that thing would change quite a bit, even if it was never moved.  Heck, I think my Polar S710 does better on Altitude than that particular GPS.

That is why I have a GPS with pressure sensitive altimeter. It is very exact (given more or less constant pressure, e.g. no weatherfront coming in). After a 10k ride, it is usually within 10 ft when I am back, and I get a nice altitude profile of my runs. It works pretty well, and it agrees very well with my other frefall computer used while skydiving. It would be pretty funny, if they put an altitude that did not work very well on that watch and then people that would start freaking out.  I mean, I’m sure it would tell some people they were going down hill, when they were in fact going up a steep hill.  ;-)

GPS altitude precision is 1.5 time the horizontal precision. That means in most cases it is within +/- 30 – 50 ft. My pressure senstive altimeter will show altitude difference between being held up high and being on the ground. — Return e-mail is a spam tarpit.

Response:

Do you have much trouble keeping your Vista locked on satellites? I’ve been testing one for a colleague at work and have had problems keeping it tracking. I’ve used my Garmin 12XL as a control, and it didn’t miss a beat. I questioned Garmin about it, and they claim the two units have the same patch antenna and get the same reception, but didn’t offer to explain the differences in error readings that I was getting.

If I do set it in normal mode (vs powersave), I will not normally lose lock with the Vista, except in very bad conditions. One thing I have found helps is to manually calibrate the altimeter to a known altitude, as that will lower the satellite requirement to maintain a lock with one satellite. When I see it lose lock, it is usually in the woods, often when a hill or something is blocking a few satellites. But it does guess your movements, and thus will be able to track for a few seconds with no lock before giving up. — Return e-mail is a spam tarpit.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My handheld GPS (Garmin eTrex Vista) is usually showing a shorter distance, as it cuts corners, and does not log if it loses track of the satellites. That said, if I can keep it locked on, my experience tells me that it is usually 2-5% short. If You walk a straight line, it is way better, but usually I do follow turning paths. Do you have much trouble keeping your Vista locked on satellites? I’ve been testing one for a colleague at work and have had problems keeping it tracking. I’ve used my Garmin 12XL as a control, and it didn’t miss a beat. I questioned Garmin about it, and they claim the two units have the same patch antenna and get the same reception, but didn’t offer to explain the differences in error readings that I was getting. Dot in Alaska

The etrex line is most sensitive to satellites when held horizontally not vertically. Pete

Response:

Also realise the the gps is giving you a 2D (flat) distance and is not taking into account vertical (hill) distance. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a hard time believing the Fitsense could be more accurate than a GPS based system…. My handheld GPS (Garmin eTrex Vista) is usually showing a shorter distance, as it cuts corners, and does not log if it loses track of the satellites. That said, if I can keep it locked on, my experience tells me that it is usually 2-5% short. If You walk a straight line, it is way better, but usually I do follow turning paths. — Return e-mail is a spam tarpit.

Response:

If I do set it in normal mode (vs powersave), I will not normally lose lock with the Vista, except in very bad conditions. One thing I have found helps is to manually calibrate the altimeter to a known altitude, as that will lower the satellite requirement to maintain a lock with one satellite. When I see it lose lock, it is usually in the woods, often when a hill or something is blocking a few satellites. But it does guess your movements, and thus will be able to track for a few seconds with no lock before giving up.

Thanks, I’ll have to try these suggestions, as well as being sure to keep it horizontal. Part of the problem with the first test may have been the alkaline batteries the guy had put in there. I use lithium batteries in mine to avoid droppage that alkalines have – and just be sure I have spares for when they drain completely without warning. They both have lithium now, and the eTrex has worked much better since replacing batteries. Dot

Response:

I did a mile on a track today out of curiosity to see how accurate  my Timex Sped+Distance is. It measured the mile as 1.008, so its pretty close.  I figure it is more accurate on a track because its a totally flat surface and I’m moving in a consistent pattern.  Anyone else have thoughts on this? David Dunn

Response:

: Anyone tried the new Timex Speed+Distance watch with the GPS transmitter?  How : accurate are they?  Any problem with signal loss while running? : Thanks, : Larry I was finally able to get out to some the portion of our half marathon course today (I’m taking the week off from work) and tested the watch out over about 4 miles of the course that still had clear markings.  This part of the course includes a climv of about 250 feet in a litle over a half mile then a dip of perhaps 80′ and climb back of 50′ over the next wauarter mile and finally a drop of another 200-250 feet over the next mile.  There are perhaps a half dozeb broad curves and a number of sharp corners over the four miles section I measured.  I did the course twice with some side trips on the second loup out for a total of just over 11 miles.  On the measured miles (including the ones with the hills) I was getting readings of +-0.005 mile.  This is plenty accurate for me especially when I wasn’t out there when the course was certified and don’t know the exact tangents that were used to the course was certified and don’t know what tangents may have been used.  I cut very few tangents today.  At some point I hope to get out to some real hills (8-14% grades) with known good mile markers to see if the accuracy holds up. On my second time up the big hill I switched the watch to display current pace and got to watch how much fun it is to climb with 10 extra pounds. I struggled to keep the pace at 12:30-13:00.  The good thing is once I crested the hill a sub 7:00 pace was easy going down. Tom

Response:

: I have a hard time believing the Fitsense could be more accurate than a GPS : based system…. : My handheld GPS (Garmin eTrex Vista) is usually showing a shorter : distance, as it cuts corners, and does not log if it loses track : of the satellites. : That said, if I can keep it locked on, my experience tells me that : it is usually 2-5% short. If You walk a straight line, it is way : better, but usually I do follow turning paths. : — : Return e-mail is a spam tarpit. I didn’t get a chance to get out to our half marathon course with the big hill this weekend but I did do a winding dirt county road with marked miles up a progressivelly narrower canyon.  I only did about 4 miles out and back and did no tangent running but followed the curves on the road. The out and back measurements were +- .001 mile of each other.  The marked miles were dead on.  I’ll report back again when I get a chance to do the big hills.   One question for the triax and fitsense owners.   How do those devices compensate for all the extra leg lifting I do on many trails stepping over water bars, large rocks and tree roots?  My normal running stride is rather low to the ground and I have to really watch myself on a good mountain trail to avoid tripping over various objects.   Tom

Response:

I have both the Nike Triax and the Times Speed+Distance.  There is a difference in measurements with each.  The Nike Triax can fluctuate quite a bit if I go at a speed that is a lot faster than the speed it was calibrated at.  It also varies with the type of shoe I’m wearing and where the transmitter is placed on the shoe.  The Timex GPS is supposed to be accurate, which depresses me because my routes that I’ve used for a long time are .03-.05 short each mile, so I have to get used to slower times with it.  I don’t like having the tranmitter strapped on my arm, although its not a big problem.  The batteries in the Timex transmitter last much longer than the Nike.  They both can be worn as regular watches, I think the Nike Triax loooks better.  I don’t see howanyone can use the Fitsense monitor, I tried one and sent it back.  It wasn’t accurate at all, even after calibrating it at a track, plus the watch part is very bulky and goofy looking.  Anyhow, for accuracy, I’d say go with the Timex. David Dunn

Response:

That’s very impressive indeed. I’ve thought about getting one of these things, but was only put off by the cost. I’m still tempted though. Do you think it is as accurate on trails (dirt track / grass / mud)?

I don’t know, I’d have to "certify" a segment of trail very carefully with a proper wheel-type measuring device. I run on trails a few times a month, but obviously nothing that I could tell you what it was before I ran it. I would imagine the accuracy would drop a bit… maybe to as bad as 30 – 40m per km. Still… that’s not too bad unless you are doing a very long run;  then it would add up after a while. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "I gotta go faster, keep up the pace, just to stay in the human race I could go supersonic, the problem’s chronic… Tell me does life exist beyond it?"                                                            bad religion http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

I have a hard time believing the Fitsense could be more accurate than a GPS based system….

My handheld GPS (Garmin eTrex Vista) is usually showing a shorter distance, as it cuts corners, and does not log if it loses track of the satellites. That said, if I can keep it locked on, my experience tells me that it is usually 2-5% short. If You walk a straight line, it is way better, but usually I do follow turning paths. — Return e-mail is a spam tarpit.

Response:

…  The Timex GPS is supposed to be accurate, which depresses me because my routes that I’ve used for a long time are .03-.05 short each mile, so I have to get used to slower times with it.

Using a good GPS (Garmin eTrex Vista), I find that the GPS is usually 2-5% short on most runs, even if I increase the sampling rate. So that is what you are experiencing as well. The good thing is, that if you use the GPS to set the distance, then you will run faster at every race — Return e-mail is a spam tarpit.

Response:

Anyone tried the new Timex Speed+Distance watch with the GPS transmitter?  How accurate are they?  Any problem with signal loss while running? Thanks, Larry

Response:

I’ve had mine about a week now.  I want to do some more testing before I make too many comments.  So far it seems good.  I want to see how some of the miles on our recent race course check out.  I’m interested in seeing if it handles the hills.  There are a couple of miles with about 500 feet of climbing and decent in the middle.  So far no reception problems but also no woods or narrow canyons.  I’ll try to post again in a few weeks.  The couple of out and back courses I have run taking a split at the turn around have only differed by a about .001-.003 mile between the out and back. Tom

: Anyone tried the new Timex Speed+Distance watch with the GPS transmitter?  How : accurate are they?  Any problem with signal loss while running? : Thanks, : Larry

Response:

How is it for use as an "everyday" watch?  Is it about the same size as the Ironman Triathlon watches? Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had mine about a week now.  I want to do some more testing before I make too many comments.  So far it seems good.  I want to see how some of the miles on our recent race course check out.  I’m interested in seeing if it handles the hills.  There are a couple of miles with about 500 feet of climbing and decent in the middle.  So far no reception problems but also no woods or narrow canyons.  I’ll try to post again in a few weeks.  The couple of out and back courses I have run taking a split at the turn around have only differed by a about .001-.003 mile between the out and back.

Response:

How is it for use as an "everyday" watch?  Is it about the same size as the Ironman Triathlon watches?

You’re going to look a little silly with the GPS unit around your upper arm.

Response:

It’s slightly larger but still seems to fit my wrist OK.  I noticed it even has a couple of holes left in the band here most of the standard Ironman watches have at most one spare hole.  My eyes are not the best (need cataract surgery) so the top line of the display (the speed and distance part) can be a little hard to read on the run.  I generally don’t really look at a watch that much on a run but like to review things when I get home.  I intend to mainly measure some of my common courses and to help lay out some new routes for myself.  The 9-12 mile hill course I use to run is closed for two years due to some manjor construction projects.  I suspect I may also use it for some trail runs that either don’t allow bikes or are beyond my technical ability to ride.  It will be like my pulse monitor spmething that I don’t expect to wear on every run and don’t really pay that much attention to on the road but can review when I get home.  I decided to get the speed/distance rather than something like the fitsense in the hope that it will prove to be more accurate on reporting distances.  I don’t see how the fitsense could stay accurate for distance when my stride changes over a long hilly course. Tom

: How is it for use as an "everyday" watch?  Is it about the same size as the : Ironman Triathlon watches? : Larry : I’ve had mine about a week now.  I want to do some more testing before I : make too many comments.  So far it seems good.  I want to see how some of : the miles on our recent race course check out.  I’m interested in seeing if : it handles the hills.  There are a couple of miles with about 500 feet of : climbing and decent in the middle.  So far no reception problems but also no : woods or narrow canyons.  I’ll try to post again in a few weeks.  The couple : of out and back courses I have run taking a split at the turn around have : only differed by a about .001-.003 mile between the out and back. :

Response:

I don’t see how the fitsense could stay accurate for distance when my stride changes over a long hilly course.

The method the Fitsense (and the  Nike sdm triax) uses to measure distance and pace has nothing to do with your actual stride rate.  It measures the speed your leg is moving. there’s a little accelerometer in there. The method you are thinking the Fitsense employs is what a simple pedometer does, which is why a pedometer is only $20. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "I gotta go faster, keep up the pace, just to stay in the human race I could go supersonic, the problem’s chronic… Tell me does life exist beyond it?"                                                            bad religion http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

I have the Triax, but  the Fitsense uses the exact same technology,  so it should be the same. I find my unit accurate to under 5m per km on every track session or sanctified, certified race I have run. I find it to remain at this accuracy level at speeds between 3k race pace and LSD pace, and at the corresponding distances. I’ve run tired slow 25k runs with dragging feet, and 400m intervals in 75 seconds, both with the above-stated results. However, I tried it when walking once, to see how it worked, and it was off by almost 30m in 1km. — David (in Hamilton, Ont)

That’s very impressive indeed. I’ve thought about getting one of these things, but was only put off by the cost. I’m still tempted though. Do you think it is as accurate on trails (dirt track / grass / mud)? Oliver.

Response:

I’ve gone partially from what I have read here where several people have mentioned how the accuracy seems to very between thhe early and latter parts of their runs.  It seems like it it was that easy to calibrate and that accurate then it should give consistent results.  Is your fitsense consistent at a wide range of speed like an easy warm up vs flat out 5 KM racing speed? Also does it stay accurate if you are doing a long traing run and start to bond towards the end of the run?  From some of the comments I’ve seem I’ve gotten the impression the fitsense distance accuracy really starts to slip under those conditions. Tom

I have the Triax, but  the Fitsense uses the exact same technology,  so it should be the same. I find my unit accurate to under 5m per km on every track session or sanctified, certified race I have run. I find it to remain at this accuracy level at speeds between 3k race pace and LSD pace, and at the corresponding distances. I’ve run tired slow 25k runs with dragging feet, and 400m intervals in 75 seconds, both with the above-stated results. However, I tried it when walking once, to see how it worked, and it was off by almost 30m in 1km. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "I gotta go faster, keep up the pace, just to stay in the human race I could go supersonic, the problem’s chronic… Tell me does life exist beyond it?"                                                            bad religion http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

I have a hard time believing the Fitsense could be more accurate than a GPS based system…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : The method the Fitsense (and the  Nike sdm triax) uses to measure : distance and pace has nothing to do with your actual stride rate. : It measures the speed your leg is moving. there’s a little accelerometer : in there. : Right… accelleration/decelleration speed plus the time between those : accelleration/decelleration peaks/dips gives you distance… at least I : assume it works something like that. I ain’t no physics major! In any : case, the things are damn accurate… at least for me. : —

Response:

: The method the Fitsense (and the  Nike sdm triax) uses to measure : distance and pace has nothing to do with your actual stride rate. : It measures the speed your leg is moving. there’s a little accelerometer : in there. : Right… accelleration/decelleration speed plus the time between those : accelleration/decelleration peaks/dips gives you distance… at least I : assume it works something like that. I ain’t no physics major! In any : case, the things are damn accurate… at least for me. : — : David : Nova Scotia, Canada. I’ve gone partially from what I have read here where several people have mentioned how the accuracy seems to very between thhe early and latter parts of their runs.  It seems like it it was that easy to calibrate and that accurate then it should give consistent results.  Is your fitsense consistent at a wide range of speed like an easy warm up vs flat out 5 KM racing speed? Also does it stay accurate if you are doing a long traing run and start to bond towards the end of the run?  From some of the comments I’ve seem I’ve gotten the impression the fitsense distance accuracy really starts to slip under those conditions. Tom

Response:

Question:

Okay, let me say right up front that I haven’t read much about this race, don’t know the ‘players’ involved, and have never participated in a draft-legal triathlon (or any triathlon, for that matter, other than relays – my individual multisport experience is limited to non-drafting duathlons). Even so, after reading the race reports of Wes Hobson and Victor Plata on the Cervelo website, I have to say, what were these guys thinking? Both of them apparently exited the water in good position, and made it out onto the cycling course only 5-10 seconds behind the lead group. Rather than bridge that gap – RIGHT NOW! – as a racing cyclist would, they both apparently decided to try to work with the other riders around them to gradually reel the leaders in, something that never happened. I could understand their tactical approach if the race were sufficiently long (say, ~6 hours, like a Tour de France stage or one of the classics), the course not conducive to the success of a small breakaway (e.g., flat, open, and windy), and/or the riders up front were notoriously weak cyclists. However, this was a short, fast race where the major challenge was apparently the heat, not the wind, and where everybody was racing for all the marbles. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what Mr. Plata and Hobson wrote, but it seems to me that they made a major tactical error in not recognizing the danger and bridging up the nascent lead group while it was still within striking distance. Like I said, I wasn’t there, don’t know the athletes and their respective abilities, and do not mean in any way to denigrate their performances…I’m just wondering if perhaps there’s something different about the thinking, abilities, and/or experience of these or other triathletes such that they responded differently than you would expect. Feel free to flame away…. — Andrew Coggan Before you buy.

Response:

after reading the race reports of Wes Hobson and Victor Plata on the Cervelo website, I have to say, what were these guys thinking? Both of them apparently exited the water in good position, and made it out onto the cycling course only 5-10 seconds behind the lead group. Rather than bridge that gap – RIGHT NOW! – as a racing cyclist would, they both apparently decided to try to work with the other riders around them to gradually reel the leaders in, something that never happened.

I didn’t see the race but have read several reports.  Hobson admits his mistake and tried to bridge a little later.  Plata didn’t mention his strategy.  As you know a well-organized group of 6 can get away from a pack and a solo attempt will surely fail once the break is established. I agree that right out of the gate is the only chance, before the pace line gets rolling. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what Mr. Plata and Hobson wrote, but it seems to me that they made a major tactical error in not recognizing the danger and bridging up the nascent lead group while it was still within striking distance.

Yep, it should have been pedal to the metal.  I’m sure nobody realizes it more than they.  Once they missed the bus, it was over. — Cheers, Doug "they must be bummed, especially Plata with his 4th fastest run" Fuller Before you buy.

Response:

Right Now, would have been it. In cycling the strategy is don’t cover a breakaway on a LONG course, with unknowns, weak riders, or when you have a team member covering it. In an ITU race, it would seem that none of these would apply. Also, the course had many turns and a large pack cannot handle the turned fast, a small group can. Live and learn. Tim www.tri-team.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, let me say right up front that I haven’t read much about this race, don’t know the ‘players’ involved, and have never participated in a draft-legal triathlon (or any triathlon, for that matter, other than relays – my individual multisport experience is limited to non-drafting duathlons). Even so, after reading the race reports of Wes Hobson and Victor Plata on the Cervelo website, I have to say, what were these guys thinking? Both of them apparently exited the water in good position, and made it out onto the cycling course only 5-10 seconds behind the lead group. Rather than bridge that gap – RIGHT NOW! – as a racing cyclist would, they both apparently decided to try to work with the other riders around them to gradually reel the leaders in, something that never happened. I could understand their tactical approach if the race were sufficiently long (say, ~6 hours, like a Tour de France stage or one of the classics), the course not conducive to the success of a small breakaway (e.g., flat, open, and windy), and/or the riders up front were notoriously weak cyclists. However, this was a short, fast race where the major challenge was apparently the heat, not the wind, and where everybody was racing for all the marbles. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what Mr. Plata and Hobson wrote, but it seems to me that they made a major tactical error in not recognizing the danger and bridging up the nascent lead group while it was still within striking distance. Like I said, I wasn’t there, don’t know the athletes and their respective abilities, and do not mean in any way to denigrate their performances…I’m just wondering if perhaps there’s something different about the thinking, abilities, and/or experience of these or other triathletes such that they responded differently than you would expect. Feel free to flame away…. — Andrew Coggan Before you buy.

Response:

I watched this race, and almost all of the men streamed out of the water within one minute of the leader (Doug Friman).  The top 6 managed to get out of the transition with a slight gap and immediately organized themselves.  This is something I’ve been seeing happening quite a bit this year in the men’s races on the World Cup circuit.  I’m guessing most of those left behind could not close the gap from going hard on the swim to stay in the lead pack, or sprinting the transition too hard and not having any sprint left in their legs for those first crucial moments on the bike. Todd

Response:

Question:

i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

Response:

Under British Triathlon Association rules you would be disqualified for nudity – I guess you must be more open minded out there. I think you should cover up to limit dehydration. Diane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

Response:

i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

 At IMC, you would be disqualified also. — Tri Your Hardest!   /O     ___o      o  ~~~~   _ <,_    <|        (*)/ (*)      / Darrin Bartlett

Response:

i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

A few things: 1) Depending on the day you may not get much sun at the Vineman. It really depends on what the marine cloud/fog layer does on the day. I have done the race twice once with overcast conditions almost the whole race and the other time it was sunny most of the day and quite warm. 2) It is my understanding that there is a rule in place now that say you must wear a top of some sort while racing both on the bike and on the run. 3) The new fabrics such as coolmax, coretech, technofine etc, actually help to keep you cool by(and I am not really sure on this) assisting with the evaporative cooling effect. Steve Fleck

Response:

i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

Personally, I prefer racing wearing a singlet.  If you do in fact decide to race with a singlet or coolmax shirt, please wear it on a few training runs.  Since you normally train bare chested, your "man nipples" might not be used to any chafing that may occur…..and this chafing is mighty unpleasant.  To summarize, train with the shirt, lube up your nipples (or cover them with band-aids), and have a great race. Greg Pressler

Response:

I’m not sure that covering help reduce dehydration. If I remember Mark Jenkins info on the subject, clothing is a detriment to cooling until it becomes saturated enough to allow evaporation on its surface. The evaporation is what cools. When I cool off in front of a fan (out of public view), I always cool off faster without clothing. What I’m not sure about is the effect of the sun on the skin. Even with sunscreen, the direct sunlight on the skin may have some heating effect. It’s probably related to sunburn, in which case the appropriate sunscreen should do just as well as clothing. I wear a singlet for two reasons. The first is because the rules require it, but even if they did not, the second would win the day. I hold a firm commitment to neighborhood beautification, and the sight of me, dressed only in a Speedo, parading around the neighborhood does not appeal. Chafing nipples is only a problem on cool days when the skin is at that tacky stage between wet and dry. For me, Runner’s Lube or Body Glide solves the chafing problem there and elsewhere. Under British Triathlon Association rules you would be disqualified for nudity – I guess you must be more open minded out there. I think you should cover up to limit dehydration. Diane i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

Response:

Damian: To be honest, I doubt any ol’ singlet will provide much sun protection.  I’d say wear (or not wear( something that’s comfortable for you.  As for the sun, just slap on some sunscreen before the start of the race (usually after they mark you up or else the numbers just come off). Kendall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

Response:

There is a pre race expo which will have at the very least "Vineman" tops and probably DeSoto, Zoot, Orca (maybe mail order only) and a few others to try on and purchase. The sun is strong out here right now – get a top! I’ll be at run aid station #4 – what kind of beer do you like?  Just kidding. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m doing the full at vineman in a couple of weeks and haven’t bought a singlet yet. i always train bare chested and raced a half a month ago without a shirt.  am i missing something by not wearing a singlet on the run? i don’t burn easily but wonder if 26.2 miles in the napa sun might drain me without some cover.  any recommendations?

Response:

Question:

I believe I read recently that they are imbedding a new version of the "chip" in all newborn babies feet at the hospital, this in conjunction with hidden sensors in the streets will allow the govt to track the movements of everyone in the country in the next century.

This has been proposed by the army for tracking soldiers and medical id, but hasn’t been adopted it (privacy?, reliability? enemy tracking?). It has also been suggested for child saftey. It is used for tracking cattle and pets. Maybe college student control too

Response:

I meant, "Do they cost _that_ much for the race organizer to rent for a race?" Probably not. I’d guess that the point of an excessive deposit value is that they want the device back and "fair price" deposit would not accomplish that.

I think Ray meant "that much" in the sense that it would be worth while race organizers encouraging people to buy their own chip rather than use one supplied by the organizer My feeling is that for one race, it is not, but if there is a series of races, it would make life easier — you register once at the start of the series, and never have to register again, just show up with your chip strapped on

Response:

I thought that this seemed like a pretty good idea, and I am normally paranoid about all of the databases with information about me. I figure that with all the other supposedly important information that other people collect about me, a race database won’t hurt. It would actually be pretty convenient, as long as I have access to the data. Harold – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The web site mentions trying to sell Chips to runners, so they’ll have their own Chip, rather than having to borrow them for a race.  Is this as foolish as it seems?  Why would a race take on the additional hassle of determining whether a runner has their own Chip or needs to borrow one, let alone the hassle of determining the Chip ID for runners with their own Chip?  Do they cost _that_ much to rent for a race?

Response:

Actually, the government uses the collected race data to make sure that when they send the Black Maria to get you, it’s staffed with thugs that can run fast enough to catch you. -Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that this seemed like a pretty good idea, and I am normally paranoid about all of the databases with information about me. I figure that with all the other supposedly important information that other people collect about me, a race database won’t hurt. It would actually be pretty convenient, as long as I have access to the data.

Response:

I meant, "Do they cost _that_ much for the race organizer to rent for a race?"   — Ray Charbonneau

If I recall correctly, Champion charges something like a dollar per runner. In a large race, that adds up. I would assume Champion factors in a bit for "walk-aways." Mike "TriBop" Tennent http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/ WebRunner Running My Model Railroad ‘98 Ironman Canada IronVirgins Site

Response:

I meant, "Do they cost _that_ much for the race organizer to rent for a race?"  

Probably not. I’d guess that the point of an excessive deposit value is that they want the device back and "fair price" deposit would not accomplish that.  

Response:

The web site mentions trying to sell Chips to runners, so they’ll have their own Chip, rather than having to borrow them for a race.  Is this as foolish as it seems?  Why would a race take on the additional hassle of determining whether a runner has their own Chip or needs to borrow one, let alone the hassle of determining the Chip ID for runners with their own Chip?  Do they cost _that_ much to rent for a race? — Ray Charbonneau

If they’ve done it correctly, all you’d have to do at registration is "swipe" your personal Chip across a reader and your personal ID and information would be entered into the race’s database. That, and the convenience of not having to stop and remove it, get your deposit back, etc, may be worth it to some. I haven’t been at any races that use it, nor are any around here using it, so I don’t have any reason to buy one myself. I understand they will be using them at Ironman Canada this year, so that’ll be my first experience with them. They’ll be able to remove it easily while I’m lying in the medical tent…<g Mike "TriBop" Tennent http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/ WebRunner Running My Model Railroad ‘98 Ironman Canada IronVirgins Site

Response:

The web site mentions trying to sell Chips to runners, so they’ll have their own Chip, rather than having to borrow them for a race.  Is this as foolish as it seems?  Why would a race take on the additional hassle of determining whether a runner has their own Chip or needs to borrow one, let alone the hassle of determining the Chip ID for runners with their own Chip?  Do they cost _that_ much to rent for a race? — Ray Charbonneau — These opinions are not those of The MITRE Corporation. Rec.running t-shirts: http://www.mit.edu/people/doreenc/rec-run/rec-run.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a description of chip technology, check out http://www.runwashington.com/champion/index.html

Response:

their own Chip?  Do they cost _that_ much to rent for a race?

When I ran the Madrid marathon, the Chips were free.  You put a 2000 peseta (about $13) deposit down when you got your number and Chip and it was all refunded at the end. Later. James "Hold me.  Thrill me.  Kiss me.  Kill me."

Response:

I meant, "Do they cost _that_ much for the race organizer to rent for a race?"   — Ray Charbonneau — These opinions are not those of The MITRE Corporation. Rec.running t-shirts: http://www.mit.edu/people/doreenc/rec-run/rec-run.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – their own Chip?  Do they cost _that_ much to rent for a race? When I ran the Madrid marathon, the Chips were free.  You put a 2000 peseta (about $13) deposit down when you got your number and Chip and it was all refunded at the end.

Response:

For a description of chip technology, check out http://www.runwashington.com/champion/index.html Mark Kline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I think it must transmitted and receiving (listening) at the same time since literally dozens of runners can cross it at the same second (at the starting line).  The electronic equiment connected to the sensors seems to emit a chirp for each chip detected.  Needless to say at the start line the chirping is quite fast and furious. Given the luck I’ve had with proximity detector access cards for getting into work, it wouldn’t surprise me that the thing is fairly unreliable. Assuming a similar technology, I find it not unusual to need to hold my card in front of the reader for several seconds before it responds.  If you only get one foot strike on the carpet surface, I’d be impressed with anything over about a 95% hit rate. Yea my work badge also requires a few seconds to register but this chip technology really works – the only case I’ve heard of it failing is when the runner didnt attach the chip to their shoe but carried it or put it in their pocket instead – too far a distance from the sensor mat.  The Chicago Triathlon (Mrs. T’s) has used the Champion Chip for at least the last two years.  With the quickness of the results and the splits for the swim, bike, run, and transition I would say it has a much greater accuracy rate than 95%. — Thanks Henry

Response:

 I think it must transmitted and receiving (listening) at the same time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – since literally dozens of runners can cross it at the same second (at the starting line).  The electronic equiment connected to the sensors seems to emit a chirp for each chip detected.  Needless to say at the start line the chirping is quite fast and furious. Given the luck I’ve had with proximity detector access cards for getting into work, it wouldn’t surprise me that the thing is fairly unreliable. Assuming a similar technology, I find it not unusual to need to hold my card in front of the reader for several seconds before it responds.  If you only get one foot strike on the carpet surface, I’d be impressed with anything over about a 95% hit rate. Yea my work badge also requires a few seconds to register but this chip technology really works – the only case I’ve heard of it failing is when the runner didnt attach the chip to their shoe but carried it or put it in their pocket instead – too far a distance from the sensor mat.

 The Chicago Triathlon (Mrs. T’s) has used the Champion Chip for at least the last two years.  With the quickness of the results and the splits for the swim, bike, run, and transition I would say it has a much greater accuracy rate than 95%. — Thanks Henry

Response:

A friend of mine who just got back from Boston told me a little about "the chip" but couldn’t tell me how it works, only what it does.  Can anyone give me a general explanation about its inner workings or tell me where I can find some information about this little marvel?  She talked about a chirping sound as she ran over a rubber pad.  Was this made by the chip or by a sensor in the pad?

Response:

One brand (the only one?) is the Champion Chip. The chip records when you pass electronic markers and notes your time and that you passed. From a tech standpoint, I do not know how it works unless it emits a signal that is unique to it (such as a binary string) that the sensor interprets (This was purely a guess and has a better than average shot of being wrong). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend of mine who just got back from Boston told me a little about "the chip" but couldn’t tell me how it works, only what it does.  Can anyone give me a general explanation about its inner workings or tell me where I can find some information about this little marvel?  She talked about a chirping sound as she ran over a rubber pad.  Was this made by the chip or by a sensor in the pad?

Response:

Here on Long Island, the "Champion Chip" Timing System has been introduced by David Katz, President of Finish Line Road Race Technicians in Port Washington, New York. Up to now, it’s in the testing stage. I’ve worn it in 2 races, where they hand it out with the race numbers. In the first race, they asked that you lace it to your sneaker, but for some reason, they began to supply a Velcro Strap so you can attach it to your ankle. I can tell you the following: The chip is activated/read/deactivated by the rubber pads, which are obviously placed at the start and finish; pads located at splits can give those times also. The "beep" is made by a sensor in the pad. Results for races timed by Finish Line are available in minutes, and are posted on a website at www.flrrt.com within an hour of the finish. Not a bad system. I will only worry Jim.

Response:

The velcro strap sounds like a good idea, after the last Marine Corp (where the chip was used) you had to stop right after the finish line and return the chip (by untying your laces).  Needless to say after 26 miles some people (myself included) would prefer to rest rather than mess with it (they did have volunteers there to help you with it).

We used the chip Sunday in Pittsburgh.  After the Marathon, we went to a bike rack and put our foot up on the lower rail.  Volunteers untied our laces, removed the chip, and tied our shoes for us again.  It was *very* much appreciated. GK frodojrr at interaccess dot com

Response:

Hi! There is a brief explanation of the working principle of the chip at   http://www.bnet.co.at/ptiming/g1_1.htm Greetings Pascal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A friend of mine who just got back from Boston told me a little about "the chip" but couldn’t tell me how it works, only what it does.  Can anyone give me a general explanation about its inner workings or tell me where I can find some information about this little marvel?  She talked about a chirping sound as she ran over a rubber pad.  Was this made by the chip or by a sensor in the pad?

Response:

: A friend of mine who just got back from Boston told me a little about : "the chip" but couldn’t tell me how it works, only what it does.  Can : anyone give me a general explanation about its inner workings or tell me : where I can find some information about this little marvel?  She talked : about a chirping sound as she ran over a rubber pad.  Was this made by : the chip or by a sensor in the pad? I have no clue what I’m talking about, just educated guesses… From a web site picture, it appears that the "chip" comes encased in large, high tech looking package.  I suspect that embedded in all the loops and extensions is a wire.  Though I am not strong in electromagnetic and antenna theory, I suspect that the carpets emit a frequency which is picked up by the antenna.  This is used to charge up a capacitor (a battery in rough terms) that is then used to power the chip.  The chip then uses the same wire to transmit a signal back the carpet: actually the wires embedded in the carpets, of course.  Again guessing, I would think that the emitted frequency may be pulsed, so that the carpet emits a burst in transmission mode which charges up the chip, then goes into receive mode to "listen" for a response. Given the luck I’ve had with proximity detector access cards for getting into work, it wouldn’t surprise me that the thing is fairly unreliable. Assuming a similar technology, I find it not unusual to need to hold my card in front of the reader for several seconds before it responds.  If you only get one foot strike on the carpet surface, I’d be impressed with anything over about a 95% hit rate. Check out http://www.cnet.bo.at/ptiming/g1.htm -pfrench

Response:

Question:

The schedule seems off because it is the 97 schedule which was asked for.  The 98 doesn’t seem to be available yet but the dates will obviously be different. Bri

Response:

I don’t know of all the Wisconsin tri schedule (including YMCA’s series), but here are the dates for the Madison Series in 1998: Berghoff Capital City Triathlon – 7/5/98 (This probably is going by a different name now, but this is the International Distance race) Madison Triathlon Classic – 7/19/98 (This is a short course 800m S, 20mi B, 6mi R, also has a sprint distance 400m S, 15mi B, 3mi R) Devil’s Challenge Triathlon – 9/6/98 (This is a beautiful sprint distance race 400m S, 15mi B, 3mi R)  Although this is a short race it is probably my favorite of the group.  Beautiful setting at Devil’s Lake State Park and a fun entry level race for beginners making it a very fun atomosphere to windup the season. Madison Fall Classic Run – 9/19/98 (10K through the arboretum in Madison) Madison Fall Duathlon Classic – 9/20/98 (Short 2mi R, 15mi B, 2mi R to end the season, usually pretty small race) If you want an application for any of these races, contact the organizers at: Mass Athletic Productions 10 Birchwood Circle Madison  WI  53704 (608)255-1950 Race Application will be available in March of ‘98 Also, the Springfield Ironhorse in Illinois is always run on Father’s Day so that is June 21st this year. With the exception of the Ironhorse, all the date information is taken directly from some of the race results that I received last year.  All the comments and distances are my own personal inputs, but I’ll stand by this info as being pretty close to accurate. Hope this helps! Jeff Larson

Response:

Some from my race schedule, some from memory.  I’m sure I don’t have them all. janesville du  5/10 kenosha du 5/24 ?date pardeeville tri 6/7 ironhorse  spingfield, IL  6/15 janesville tri 7/19 schu’s  st. joe, MI   8/10 madison du and tri 8/24 lake geneva tri 8/24 see ya, bri

Response:

I would check this schedule….I know the Pardeeville race will be June 6th not 7th…(my 14th consecutive Pardeeville race if all goes well!)and the others seem just a bit off.  The Badgerland Striders booklet and Silent Sports magazine are really the best sources for Wisconsin racing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -janesville du  5/10 kenosha du 5/24 ?date pardeeville tri 6/7 ironhorse  spingfield, IL  6/15 janesville tri 7/19 schu’s  st. joe, MI   8/10 madison du and tri 8/24 lake geneva tri 8/24

Response:

Question:

Ok folks got me a handy dandy sample of SnakeOil er I mean Endurox from my doggie baggie at my last race.  The sample looks like enough for 5 day’s of training, so since its free I’ll give it a try and post results here! Why it may even make me SUPER RUNNER! —

Wishful thinking! I got a 30 day free supply, and nothing noteworthy to report. Scary, and a sad commentary though-I get free samples of the latest, greatest enhancers frequently and I gladly accept the guinea(sp)pig role, deluding myself that "this might help".   Lee Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

Response:

Test Day 4 Took two tablets 1 hour before run.  The day was VERY HOT (95 deg) after a loop and a half (2 1/2 miles or so) I decide to pack it in.  Endurox doesn’t seem to be able to overcome the beating sun.

: Test Day 3 : Took 2 tablets 1 hour before run.  Felt stronger than day 2 run.  Maybe this : stuff works.  Maybe even though it’s hotter than day 2 their is only about : 1/2 the humidity. : : Test Day 1 : : Took two tablets 1 hour before combined bike/run workout. : : It didn’t cause the let’s swim to Hawaii THEN run ironman rush some other : : herbal products.  Then again it didn’t seem to do anything else eiher but at : : least it didn’t seem to do bad things. : : Test Day 2 : : Again took two tablets 1 hour before run.  3+ miles in heat (~90 deg)  Again : : didn’t seem to do much. : : : Ok folks got me a handy dandy sample of SnakeOil er I mean Endurox from my : : : doggie baggie at my last race.  The sample looks like enough for 5 day’s of : : : training, so since its free I’ll give it a try and post results here! : : : Why it may even make me SUPER RUNNER! : : : — : : — : — —

Response:

Test Day 3 Took 2 tablets 1 hour before run.  Felt stronger than day 2 run.  Maybe this stuff works.  Maybe even though it’s hotter than day 2 their is only about 1/2 the humidity.

: Test Day 1 : Took two tablets 1 hour before combined bike/run workout. : It didn’t cause the let’s swim to Hawaii THEN run ironman rush some other : herbal products.  Then again it didn’t seem to do anything else eiher but at : least it didn’t seem to do bad things. : Test Day 2 : Again took two tablets 1 hour before run.  3+ miles in heat (~90 deg)  Again : didn’t seem to do much. : : Ok folks got me a handy dandy sample of SnakeOil er I mean Endurox from my : : doggie baggie at my last race.  The sample looks like enough for 5 day’s of : : training, so since its free I’ll give it a try and post results here! : : Why it may even make me SUPER RUNNER! : : — : — —

Response:

Ok folks got me a handy dandy sample of SnakeOil er I mean Endurox from my doggie baggie at my last race.  The sample looks like enough for 5 day’s of training, so since its free I’ll give it a try and post results here! Why it may even make me SUPER RUNNER! —

Response:

Test Day 1 Took two tablets 1 hour before combined bike/run workout. It didn’t cause the let’s swim to Hawaii THEN run ironman rush some other herbal products.  Then again it didn’t seem to do anything else eiher but at least it didn’t seem to do bad things. Test Day 2 Again took two tablets 1 hour before run.  3+ miles in heat (~90 deg)  Again didn’t seem to do much.

: Ok folks got me a handy dandy sample of SnakeOil er I mean Endurox from my : doggie baggie at my last race.  The sample looks like enough for 5 day’s of : training, so since its free I’ll give it a try and post results here! : Why it may even make me SUPER RUNNER! : — —

Response:

Question:

I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help.

Pete, the best thing you can do is listen to the people on this group! I have brewed two batches by following the advice of these people and of course the popular books, much to my great satisfaction.  I don’t think anyone here has suggested using corn sugar in beer, except for bottling which seems to be about the most effective way to make carbonation and really doesn’t affect the flavor.  Most of the other information that is contradictory (boiling time) etc., doesn’t seem that important for the first batch or so.  Really, it’s your first batch, and from what I can tell from my first two batches it is hard to really screw up a batch.  Like someone told me before, who cares if your first batch isn’t all that clear, or doesn’t form a great head, if it tastes good to you (which I bet it will) then don’t sweat it.                                                                 -Linus

Response:

I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help. Pete — My karma just ran over your dogma.

Pete; I’m sure you heard the phrase "Relax don’t worry,have a homebrew" Ypur beer will be just fine.I’ve ben brewing for 6 years and never made a batch that wasn’t good.Although corn sugar will make your beer a bit cidrery,it will be ok.Next time brew with all malt and you will taste a difference.I prefer boiling for 1 hour,but some kits you buy suggest you dont even boil,just add boiling water to your malt right in the fermenter(Ironmaster beer)go figure.You really should only use 3/4 cup of corn sugar for bottling,if you use too much you will over carbonate(next time)                                                Remember                                  "If you can boil,you can brew"

Response:

I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help. Pete — My karma just ran over your dogma.

Hi pete,  It’s probably to late for your current batch but try to find a copy of Charlie Papazian’s "New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" it is considered the beginner’s bible for home brewing.  Library of Congress Card Number: 91-24632.  It got me started well and I think you’d enjoy it    Take care,                                              …Cameron .

Response:

I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help. Pete

Pete, Don’t use corn sugar during the boiling stage.  Use 5-7 lbs malt extract. Boil for at least an hour if you are adding your own hops for BITTERNESS.  You can boil for less time if you are using a hopped extract and are either not adding hops or are adding hops for FLAVOR or SMELL. Use corn sugar during bottling. There is nothing you can do for this batch BUT it may not be cidery. It depends on how much sugar you used as compared to malt extract. The more sugar the more cidery taste.  Stick to all malt recipes.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help. Pete Pete, Don’t use corn sugar during the boiling stage.  Use 5-7 lbs malt extract. Boil for at least an hour if you are adding your own hops for BITTERNESS.  You can boil for less time if you are using a hopped extract and are either not adding hops or are adding hops for FLAVOR or SMELL.

Or only boil a few minutes if you don’t want to add hops at all. Even a short boil helps with sanitation issues. If you boil for more than a few minutes, you lose aroma oils from the hops which you have to replace with your own hop additions near the end of the boil (0-7 minutes). If you boil longer, you might start to lose less volatile flavor compontents from hops, and would need to add your own flavor hops around 20-30 minutes before the end of the boil. Some will say you need a longer boil to co-agulate protiens (hot break and cold break), however some extract manufacturers now say this has occurred during the extract manufacture. I still get lots of hot, and cold break material when I boil extracts, so I don’t know. I believe a longer boil is benificial, BUT NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to make beer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Use corn sugar during bottling. There is nothing you can do for this batch BUT it may not be cidery. It depends on how much sugar you used as compared to malt extract. The more sugar the more cidery taste.  Stick to all malt recipes.

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I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help. Pete,

You’lll probably like the beer alot, primarily because you made it yourself and it won’t taste all that bad. My first batch I made back in college, nobody told me that table sugar and corn sugar were somehow different, so of course I used what we hd handy.  I also didn’t boil at all, I just mixed the can of extract with some warm water and stirred.  When I bottled, I put something like a teaspoon of table sugar in each bottle (not thinking that it would have been much more accurate (and easier) to add the sugar to the entire batch at once.  For bottling, I just dipped a spouted pitcher into the bucket, then poured into the bottles.  We used any bottle we could find, including our empty "Big Jug Beer" bottles (2 quart size I think).  The latter were capped with the original screw caps.   After letting the beet ferment for only one week or so, it was bottled and drunk about 5 days later.  And you know what…the beer was great!  Had a unique champagny taste, but alot of female friends of mine who didn’t like beer really dug it.  Granted, it wasn’t the best beer I ever had, but it did taste pretty decent.  By the way, please don’t try these methods at home! Marty — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help.

Pete: There is a lot of contradictory information, and it can really confuse someone trying to do a good first batch (or 100th batch).  But, don’t worry about this batch, just continue with it as it is and YOU decide if it tastes cidery or not.  Then you’ll know, and when you’re no longer the beginner and are asked about the topic, you’ll speak from experience. My understanding is that many kits were (or still are) put together by foks who want to keep the kit cost down, as well as the kit price.  It’s cheaper to substitute some corn sugar for malt syrup, so that’s whats done.  For your next batch you should find an extract-based recipe, buy the ingredients and try it again.  You won’t find many extract recipes in any books, magazines, or on the ‘net that use corn sugar, if you find any at all.  Most will use about 2 cans of extract syrup (6.6 lbs, total).  Also, your supply shop may sell it in bulk (they draw it from a 5 gal or 55 gal barrel into a plastic food container, and sell you exactly the amount you need for the recipe). As for boiling… Five minutes I’ve never, ever heard of.  According to deClerck in his "A Tectbook of Brewing", 15 minutes is sufficient to sterilize the wort.  There are many things going on in the boil that take longer than 15 minutes.  For one, you’ll want to add your own hops (rather than using hopped extract, use plain extract and real hops).  It takes about 60 minutes to turn the insoluble bittering agents into soluble form.  This is the only way the bittering components will stay in the finished beer.  It also takes time for other wort components to clump together and drop out of the beer to provide a clearer product.  Sixty minutes is about right for any boil. Look at some recipes..you’ll see a number of hop additions specified at various times, such as "1 oz Norhtern Brewer at 60 minutes" or ".5 oz Cascade at 10 minutes".  These times given mean "boil time to go".  For example, 60 min means 60 minutes from the end of the boil, 10 min means 10 minutes from end of boil, etc. The longest time given is the boil duration, roughly.  Boil durations in nearly any recipe you see will be 60, 75 (only mine, probably), 90, and 120 minutes, with 95% being 60. If you’re Web capable, go to http://alpha.rollanet.org and feast on the beginner’s guides you’ll find there.  Very high quality info. KRF Colorado Springs

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I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help.

Pete, Don’t get too freaked out.  Yes, the addition of such a large quantity of corn sugar prior to fermentation make give your brew a slightly funny taste.  But the whole point of brewing is to have a good time. Your brew will not be undrinkable.  But if you don’t like it, replacing the corn sugar with malt will go a long way toward fixing the problem in your next batch.  I know, it took me 4 or 5 batches to produce beer better than I could buy at the local supermarket.  Now that I have the hang of it I cringe at the thought of BUYING beer. As to the boiling time, as a rule of thumb boiling for an hour improves flavor.  But some all extract beers don’t need to be boiled at all. Keep in mind that all the contradictory statements you hear are just people’s opinions.  If you follow the directions that came with your supplies you will brew a drinkable beer.  If you want to make a really superior beer, then try the things people suggest to you like longer boiling times and less corn sugar.  See what works best for you and what produces a brew that suits your tastes best.  It may take a few batches to get it just right but what the heck?  That’s what brewing is about, experimentation and the persuit of that perfect bottle of beer. Remember to enjoy yourself, and as they say Relax, don’t worry have a homebrew.

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I was given and followed the brewing instructions I received from my local brew store for brewing an ale beer. The instructions called for four cups of corn sugar at the wort boiling stage. And one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. However, I just read an internet document that suggested not following this recipe because it results in a cidery tasting beer. The document suggested using 5-7 lbs of malt extract and only one cup of corn sugar at the bottling stage. Now I’m depressed. There is so much contridictory information. One person in the store told me to boil for only five minutes another said one hour. Can someone tell me my beer will taste cidery and if so can I do anything to limit it? Thanks for any help. Pete — My karma just ran over your dogma.

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Question:

Does anybody know how long the run course actually was.  My pace was way too good to be a full 4.6 miles.  How long did we run?

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I carefully measured it as 3.8 miles from gate to gate of the North whatchamacallit Club of Lake Mission Viejo. The distance down to the finish line was about 300 yards, the distance uphill from transition was about 220 yards. Thus add three tenths of a mile and you get 4.1 mile best estimate. This puts me at about 7:35 per mile well off 7:02 for the official distance, but more realistic given how I felt after the bike and a week-long cold. If you want to cross check it, the top runners said they were motoring along at a 5:20 per mile pace and when you get their splits, you can do the math. My cyclometer also registered 16.9 miles for the bike rack to rack. I know, both adjustments are humbling to me, knocking my mph from 19.0 to 18.4 biut realistic again given my struggle on the 10 hills. TGCarlson

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Does anybody know how long the run course actually was.  My pace was way too good to be a full 4.6 miles.  How long did we run?

The run was more like 4.2 miles.  At least that is what Jack Caress said it was.  The swim was a little long for 1k, don’t you think? Ron ^^^ Ron Williams Prescott, Arizona http://pr.erau.edu/~williar/

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I agree that the run and bike were short, but my times suggest that if the swim was long, it was not by very much. Does anybody know how long the run course actually was.  My pace was way too good to be a full 4.6 miles.  How long did we run?

The run was more like 4.2 miles.  At least that is what Jack Caress said it was.  The swim was a little long for 1k, don’t you think? Ron ^^^ Ron Williams Prescott, Arizona http://pr.erau.edu/~williar/

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PS I hope that my attempts to accurately reflect the run mileage does not distract from my earlier post — so let me repeat: Let us profusely thank Jack Caress for his great job saving the Orange County Performing Arts Triathlon and congratulate him on a very hard job very well done in very short order. I know how hard he worked negotiating with Mission Viejo and the state Park services for access to the roads and no matter how tough and crowded we thought the swim was, it was nothing compared to his great feat of cutting through such dense red tape to get the roads free to race on. The race was very well put on with a lot of details improved over an already well run event — such as the layout of the transition zone and the end of the swim — and I anticipate more next year. Caress also did a great job convincing Steve Locke of TriFed to hold the Age Group nationals in Orange County next year. Here’s hoping his search for pro sponsors will go well, too. Timothy Carlson

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Question:

Its about time to replace my stock Shimano HG-90 chain.  Has anyone out there had any experience with the Regina hollow pin chain?  How long has it lasted? How much weight was actually saved over conventional? Thanks in advance Mike Randow

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Its about time to replace my stock Shimano HG-90 chain.  Has anyone out there had any experience with the Regina hollow pin chain?  How long has it lasted? How much weight was actually saved over conventional?

-Nothing significant in weight savings. (contrary to popular opinion you do not have to carry your bike) -The chain is too wide for 8speed. -Regina’’s quality control is not very good. Their freewheels arent’around here anymore. -My tip is to buy a SEDISPORT or SACHS R-80 chain instead. they beat HG90. BITUMEN      (“““`)   ( (o) (o) )  (     .     )   ( |-__-|  )    (       ) RULES O.K.

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: Its about time to replace my stock Shimano HG-90 chain.  Has anyone out : there had any experience with the Regina hollow pin chain?  How long has : it lasted? How much weight was actually saved over conventional? : Thanks in advance : Mike Randow —— My opinion is to the contrary of others. I’ve had 4 Regina SL’s in 3 years of racing. Firstly, if you’re a gram-pincher, you save about 100g, which translates to almost .25lbs. Save 100g here, 100g there, and your bike is suddenly a pound or so lighter…very noticable up hills (what we have here in N. Florida). Secondly, I’ve never had a problem with the strength of the Regina, but then again, I’m a typical skinny triathlete (do those exist anymore?) at 150lbs. Anyway, the other poster was right when he said they wouldn’t work with 8spd. Actually, I did get mine to work with my Shim. 8spd rear, but it was so noisy it drove me nuts! Now I use the Regina for races and a KMG Super-Shuttle (never heard of it before, but damn! what a great chain!) for training. Jonathan Acey Albert University of Florida

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Its about time to replace my stock Shimano HG-90 chain.  Has anyone out : there had any experience with the Regina hollow pin chain?  How long has : it lasted? How much weight was actually saved over conventional? : Thanks in advance : Mike Randow —— My opinion is to the contrary of others. I’ve had 4 Regina SL’s in 3 years of racing. Firstly, if you’re a gram-pincher, you save about 100g, which translates to almost .25lbs. Save 100g here, 100g there, and your bike is suddenly a pound or so lighter…very noticable up hills (what we have here in N. Florida). Secondly, I’ve never had a problem with the strength of the Regina, but then again, I’m a typical skinny triathlete (do those exist anymore?) at 150lbs. Anyway, the other poster was right when he said they wouldn’t work with 8spd. Actually, I did get mine to work with my Shim. 8spd rear, but it was so noisy it drove me nuts! Now I use the Regina for races and a KMG Super-Shuttle (never heard of it before, but damn! what a great chain!) for training. Jonathan Acey Albert University of Florida

4 chains in 3 years of racing, seems you go through them like I go through Powerbars, I’m still using the Shimano HG chain that came with my bike two years ago. I weight about 175 lbs. I’d rather have 100gr more to carry and have a reliable chain. I never broke a chain in 5 years of triathlon, and i certainly don’t want that to happen ever, especially in a race or a long training ride when you’re 100km from home! Joachim Heinle

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: : Its about time to replace my stock Shimano HG-90 chain.  Has anyone out : : there had any experience with the Regina hollow pin chain?  How long has : : it lasted? How much weight was actually saved over conventional? : : Thanks in advance : : Mike Randow : —— My opinion is to the contrary of others. I’ve had 4 Regina SL’s : in 3 years of racing. Firstly, if you’re a gram-pincher, you save about : 100g, which translates to almost .25lbs. Save 100g here, 100g there, and : your bike is suddenly a pound or so lighter…very noticable up hills : (what we have here in N. Florida). Secondly, I’ve never had a problem : with the strength of the Regina, but then again, I’m a typical skinny : triathlete (do those exist anymore?) at 150lbs. Anyway, the other poster : was right when he said they wouldn’t work with 8spd. Actually, I did get : mine to work with my Shim. 8spd rear, but it was so noisy it drove me : nuts! Now I use the Regina for races and a KMG Super-Shuttle (never heard : of it before, but damn! what a great chain!) for training. : Jonathan Acey Albert : University of Florida : 4 chains in 3 years of racing, seems you go through them like I go through : Powerbars, I’m still using the Shimano HG chain that came with my bike : two years ago. I weight about 175 lbs. I’d rather have 100gr more to carry : and have a reliable chain. I never broke a chain in 5 years of triathlon, : and i certainly don’t want that to happen ever, especially in a race or a : long training ride when you’re 100km from home! : Joachim Heinle         Actually, I do go through chains quiclky, largely because I never         want to have equipment as an excuse.. "well, if my chain hadn’t         broken…" Preventive maintenance is a lesson I learned during many         a training ride when I started cycling. Also, I have an alloy         freewheel on my disc, It’s good to have new or very clean chains         when using these. Like I said, I’m a gram pincher (and only         150-155lbs…about 145 racing weight). Jonathan Acey Albert University of Florida

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I am looking to buy some Scott RCO aerobars, used of new, at a good price.  Also, I’ve got some Profile ‘Breeze’ aerobars to sell.  THey’re in great shape, only ridden 200 miles.  I want the Scott bars ‘cuz the profile’s are too short for me, and I just found out that it’s messing up my aero position.  Willing to trade Profiles for Scott’s also, if interested.                                           Scott Wilson

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4 chains in 3 years of racing, seems you go through them like I go through Powerbars, I’m still using the Shimano HG chain that came with my bike two years ago. I weight about 175 lbs. I’d rather have 100gr more to carry and have a reliable chain. I never broke a chain in 5 years of triathlon, and i certainly don’t want that to happen ever, especially in a race or a long training ride when you’re 100km from home!

Reliable chain? either you don’t ride very often, or your chain is ready to bust! I change my chain evry 1000 miles. If I don’t my shifting goes to the dogs. Especially with the funky shifting set-ups that triathletes like to use. I find that the best chai ns for price, weight, duablity and compadiblity with all drive trains are either DID super Shift (the makers of shimano hyperglide chains, basically the same except with one side of the chain not camfered- weight savings, no loss in performance) and Sedis – I perfer Sedis because i have had no problems with them at all even in the rigors of new england ‘cross an dthe muddy mountian biking, if these chains can hold up in that type of conditions than I am sure than can hold up to any conditins! they also don’ t have those stupid replacable link pins shimano uses! As for regina go for it, everything they make is relable especially there freewheels (which by the way are incredibly light an dreally sweet!) for the money you are going to pay for a regina chain you are going to get a good chain, that is why they are so expensive-they have to be to make them light, and strong…also dont use those alloy derailier pullies, they are hevier, cause more friction, an d hinder shifter. Shimano Dura-Ace pullies are much bett er… they cost less than a regina chain, and wont put any unnecisary grinding onto a chain… look at the pro peleton, what do they use, especilly watch tony romiger, he usese alot of the same equipment trialthetes like, and he has to rid ehisbike hard da y, after day in the tours, and classics of europe. they know what works and what doesn’t! —ARR—

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