The biathlon has shooting and skiing. When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking. Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run? I guess liability concerns made swimming take the place of the shooting?
Which triathlons are you speaking of? The pentalon had it, along with fencing, but I don’t recall run, bike, shoot at any point. But it doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I’m going to think about where it could be successfully staged in the Bay Area. And should the penalty loop for misses by on the bike, run, or athlete choice? — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com
Which triathlons are you speaking of? The pentalon had it, along with fencing, but I don’t recall run, bike, shoot at any point. But it doesn’t sound like a bad idea. I’m going to think about where it could be successfully staged in the Bay Area. And should the penalty loop for misses by on the bike, run, or athlete choice? —
It would sure solve the problem of drafting on the bike!
When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking. Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run?
Somebody want to give this guy a history lesson? -Harold
Pick up a book on the history of triathlon. Shooting was never involved, dude.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The biathlon has shooting and skiing. When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking. Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run? I guess liability concerns made swimming take the place of the shooting?
About 14 years ago, when I last participated in multisport events, the term "biathlon" was commonly used to describe the run-bike-run events now known as duathlons. That may be what led to the confusion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pick up a book on the history of triathlon. Shooting was never involved, dude. The biathlon has shooting and skiing. When triathlons first originated was it running, shooting, biking. Were the guns carried on the bike or on the run? I guess liability concerns made swimming take the place of the shooting?
I’m thinking about buying a new bike at 3500+ to race on and was wondering how secure most triathlon transition areas are for such bikes. Should I be concerned and is there insurance you can buy against theft at a reasonable price? In the races I’ve attended it looks like anyone dressed like a racer could enter the transition area, grab a bike, and roll.
Well, you could save $3500 by going to a race dressed like a racer, enter the transition area, … 
Since tri bikes for the most part are truely specialty bikes, the only ones that would steal a tri bike for the most part would be another triathlete. This has a built in danger as just by showing up at another tri allows others to see it. Anyone looking for a stolen tri bike or groups of friends on the lookout for it can most likely spot it, or any like it and quite possibly expose the thief. The more specialized the bike, the rarer it is and the more likely it will be spotted. Same goes for anyone selling a hot tri bike, since the market is quite narrow compared to a road or mtn bike. It would seem to me that a smart thief would steal a road bike or mtn bike before a tri bike. Much bigger market, easier to sell to anybody. Gabe "Who would rent a chicken?" Mystery Men
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Security will vary from race to race. I have never had my bike stolen and have only heard a few second hand stories of people who have (in 10 years of racing). B.Oliver
Someone posted here about one incident, at an IM. They were fighting with the organizers (I’m not sure if it was a WTC race) over who was responsible.
It was IM Florida 2000; it was resolved but I don’t remember exactly how. If I recall, they did get some reimbursement, but not enough to fully cover. A friend of mine had 2 bikes (Softride and Calfee, I think) stolen off his truck at the 2000 1/2 Vineman at the river (starting area). Having worked and been in charge of the transition area at Alcatraz in the past, my pet peeve is whiny triathletes who try to circumvent the TA exits or bring friends/family members/people off the street into the TA area with them when they have been previously told that only registered athletes are allowed in the TA and you must show your number to get your bike out. If you need help carrying all your crap, maybe you brought too much to start with! clm in sf
The people with really cool bikes worth stealing are always long gone by the time I finish the run, so the pickings are kind of slim so I just take my bike and go home 
I’ve heard of it happening second hand, but the bigger, more organized the race is the less I’d worry. I’d have no fears at a race like Gulf Coast or any IM distance race. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about buying a new bike at 3500+ to race on and was wondering how secure most triathlon transition areas are for such bikes. Should I be concerned and is there insurance you can buy against theft at a reasonable price? In the races I’ve attended it looks like anyone dressed like a racer could enter the transition area, grab a bike, and roll.
The people with really cool bikes worth stealing are always long gone by the time I finish the run, so the pickings are kind of slim so I just take my bike and go home I’ve heard of it happening second hand, but the bigger, more organized the race is the less I’d worry. I’d have no fears at a race like Gulf Coast or any IM distance race.
Someone posted here about one incident, at an IM. They were fighting with the organizers (I’m not sure if it was a WTC race) over who was responsible. With most races going to ChampionChip timing, transition security should become a no brainer. Simply tag the bikes with race number tags that can’t be removed in a manner that allows them to be re-attached to another bike, and then have chip return when people remove their bike from transition. No chippy, no bikey – what could be simpler?
I’m thinking about buying a new bike at 3500+ to race on and was wondering how secure most triathlon transition areas are for such bikes. Should I be concerned and is there insurance you can buy against theft at a reasonable price? In the races I’ve attended it looks like anyone dressed like a racer could enter the transition area, grab a bike, and roll.
Security will vary from race to race. I have never had my bike stolen and have only heard a few second hand stories of people who have (in 10 years of racing). B.Oliver
I’m thinking about buying a new bike at 3500+ to race on and was wondering how secure most triathlon transition areas are for such bikes. Should I be concerned and is there insurance you can buy against theft at a reasonable price? In the races I’ve attended it looks like anyone dressed like a racer could enter the transition area, grab a bike, and roll.
after races I also notice people leaving their bikes alone on their roof racks with or without locks. Most triathletes are honest, but I never let my bike leave my sight after I finish a race and gather my stuff. It’s just my way of doing things, not because I want people to see my bike, but because I’ve always had bikes costing a lot more than I should have ever spent on them. Of the more than 70 races I’ve done I haven’t seen anyone lose a bike from being stolen from the transition. It seems even the grass-roots events have some sort of security method (either event people or friends) Look at it this way….someone ALWAYS has a more expensive bike there than you do <remove NOSPAM to e=mail
Try a cross country skiing or speed skating shop, for example Nordic Equipment in Utah(www.nordicequipment.com) or Eagle River Nordic in Wisconsin(www.ernordic.com). There are many more national and local shops, no specific endorsement intended. If you live in the northern half of the country, there are probably a couple in your phone book. Also, it would probably pay to look at clothing manufacturers’ websites (e.g. Hind and VO Max). They probably have more specific running stuff(BTW, the olympic athletes’ suits may well be custom jobs; you can also get one for a few hundred dollars). And if you live where it snows, why not try a little skiing this year? Good luck, Jerry McMahan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not see anything at RRS or Dsports…..a couple of places like Desoto in San Diego have short sleeve and short bottom one piece suits (for men)…for the Iron-Man Triatholon crowd……however….it’s now in the low 50’s for those of us doing night and early morning running in New York….and only going lower. Who sells one piece running unitards?….the stuff you see the men wearing in the Olympics?…long sleeve with full pant length? Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks Andrew InSport.com sells running suits. However, the kinds I’ve seen them sell doesn’t have the head covering. It’s just on piece from shoulder to thighs–no head covering. And I don’t recall if it’s full length. C
"Twenty five years ago, being crazy meant something; now everybody’s crazy". – Charles Manson, 1993
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not see anything at RRS or Dsports…..a couple of places like Desoto in San Diego have short sleeve and short bottom one piece suits (for men)…for the Iron-Man Triatholon crowd……however….it’s now in the low 50’s for those of us doing night and early morning running in New York….and only going lower. Who sells one piece running unitards?….the stuff you see the men wearing in the Olympics?…long sleeve with full pant length? Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks Andrew
InSport.com sells running suits. However, the kinds I’ve seen them sell doesn’t have the head covering. It’s just on piece from shoulder to thighs–no head covering. And I don’t recall if it’s full length. C
I did not see anything at RRS or Dsports…..a couple of places like Desoto in San Diego have short sleeve and short bottom one piece suits (for men)…for the Iron-Man Triatholon crowd……however….it’s now in the low 50’s for those of us doing night and early morning running in New York….and only going lower. Who sells one piece running unitards?….the stuff you see the men wearing in the Olympics?…long sleeve with full pant length? Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks Andrew
Do you mean for sprints or distance? The traditional sprint ones are decently cheap and can be bought through EastBay, but you wouldn’t want to wear these for distance. The new sprint and distance speed suits you saw in the Olympics probably cost a million dollars and I’m not sure you can just buy them off the shelf anyway. Just get yourself a nice pair of looser fitting tights and a running top and maybe jacket from RRS or the like. You’ll be a lot more comfortable and probably warmer as well. If you feel like going all out, get something Goretex. Great stuff although expensive. -jeff
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not see anything at RRS or Dsports…..a couple of places like Desoto in San Diego have short sleeve and short bottom one piece suits (for men)…for the Iron-Man Triatholon crowd……however….it’s now in the low 50’s for those of us doing night and early morning running in New York….and only going lower. Who sells one piece running unitards?….the stuff you see the men wearing in the Olympics?…long sleeve with full pant length? Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks Andrew
Brian "I REALLY don’t watch that much TV, but more than Ruth" Wagner
Okay, now that we know how you all tote your gear around, and we already knew what you like to listen to while on the indoor trainer, what do you watch? I got bored with the backs of those two nitwits going nowhere, so I really do watch a lot of TV in the indoor season – 5 hours in fact. First choice, even if I weren’t on the bike, was The Sopranos, followed by Law and Order, NYPDBlue, and anything else bloody enough to hold my attention while I’m doing the hateful. I’ve already mentioned that crazy Have A Baby on TV program, in which the woman invites the whole neighborhood to watch. I won’t mention more about it, lest I inspire Bryan to go over the top again. Or was that under the bottom. Ruth "I’d watch Springer before I’d spend an hour staring at those two Nintendo characters" Kazez
Now I know I’m getting too old. Here all this time I thought chafing problems were with the thighs, where they rub together. In the spring, after running in long pants all winter, I have chafing problems there. That what I first thought this thread was all about. Little did I know this would turn into a sort of sex ed class. John
<snip The other place where I tend to get a frustrating amount of chafing (I’ve heard other women complain about this as well) is on my sternum and chest where the top seam of the running bra rubs as I run. I wish sports bra manufacturers would stop using those heavily sewn seams there, and do something to make the seams softer.
One thing that helps this problem is to only use jog bras that have zero cotton content. Any jog bra with cotton in it will make the chafing worse. Um, it tends to rip the flesh right off your chest. The other thing that sometimes helps is smearing lube of your choice on your chest underneath the jog bra. Cathy
Any jog bra with cotton in it will make the chafing worse. Um, it tends to rip the flesh right off your chest.
Such word pictures are SOOOOO inspiring. TV commercial. <sound of guitar, camera moves through jungle enters clearing, revealing third world death squad torturing dissidents, using a belt sander and paint scraper to rip the flesh off their chests. Chorus (singing):The look… the feel… of cotton. The fabric of your life. Isn’t that special?
sound of guitar, camera moves through jungle enters clearing, revealing third world death squad torturing dissidents, using a belt sander and paint scraper to rip the flesh off their chests. Chorus (singing):The look… the feel… of cotton. The fabric of your life. Isn’t that special?
Sheeesh, Brian, those were just a few triathletes shaving down for the big event. Haven’t you been reading the *clipper* thread? A belt sander was definitely mentioned. And that wasn’t a chorus. It was the gently warbling vibrato of …whatizname…one of the brothers, ummm…Aaron…ummm, oh well, you know who(m – in case there are any english majors lurking here) I mean. Ruth K
Clitoris? What’s that? Phil
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| | | It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. | | Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know. | | That’s exactly what I was wondering! | | If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about… | | | I can’t believe some of you are so coy. The word is …get ready for | this …clitoris. Now just repeat the word three times. There…that | wasn’t so difficult, was it? | | As usual, the best solution is avoidance. Sit on one side of the | saddle, then switch to the other. Also, if you can rotate your pelvis | far enough so that you’re balanced on your pubic bone, you’ll not only | avoid the pain, but be in a very good position on your aerobars. | | Ruth Kazez
Sheeesh, Brian, those were just a few triathletes shaving down for the big event. Haven’t you been reading the *clipper* thread? A belt sander was definitely mentioned.
It’s different when a stranger does it. And that wasn’t a chorus. It was the gently warbling vibrato of …whatizname…one of the brothers, ummm…Aaron…ummm, oh well, you know who(m – in case there are any english majors lurking here) I mean.
On my surround sound home theater system, I distinctly hear multiple voices, at least one of them female. Brian "I REALLY don’t watch that much TV, but more than Ruth" Wagner
Clitoris? What’s that?
Well, that just about shot YOUR chance of getting any dates around here! Go ask Master Watson.
I’ve frequently resorted to wearing my running bras inside out. Looks pretty stupid, but it works. Nothing looks stupid on you, but you knew I was going to say that.
I very much doubt that a Carmen Miranda chapeau would look anything BUT stupid on me. How about a set of antlers? The Stanford Mascot costume (believe it or not, it’s a tree)? A lampshade? …. TriBaby _ – o ’ – __o – </_ ` ‘ – < – __/ /o_ – (()) (()) - / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon? Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html
It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know.
That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about… Bag Balm. Smear it on before race start. Works great. The other place where I tend to get a frustrating amount of chafing (I’ve heard other women complain about this as well) is on my sternum and chest where the top seam of the running bra rubs as I run. I wish sports bra manufacturers would stop using those heavily sewn seams there, and do something to make the seams softer. I’ve frequently resorted to wearing my running bras inside out. Looks pretty stupid, but it works. :p TriBaby _ – o ’ – __o – </_ ` ‘ – < – __/ /o_ – (()) (()) - / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon? Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html
It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know. That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about…
I can’t believe some of you are so coy. The word is …get ready for this …clitoris. Now just repeat the word three times. There…that wasn’t so difficult, was it? As usual, the best solution is avoidance. Sit on one side of the saddle, then switch to the other. Also, if you can rotate your pelvis far enough so that you’re balanced on your pubic bone, you’ll not only avoid the pain, but be in a very good position on your aerobars. Ruth Kazez
That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about…
And now, of course, the obvious question is – what spot does Tri-Baby *think* it is? I’ve frequently resorted to wearing my running bras inside out. Looks pretty stupid, but it works.
Nothing looks stupid on you, but you knew I was going to say that.
I found olive oil is better than vasoline. With some roasted garlic and oregano, and just a pinch of cracked pepper.
That’s too much stuff to keep on the nightstand. Before you buy.
I found olive oil is better than vasoline. With some roasted garlic and oregano, and just a pinch of cracked pepper. That’s too much stuff to keep on the nightstand.
What with all the room taken up by the handcuffs, leg irons, and feather duster, right? Even here in the midwest, it’s available pre-mixed, with a comfort tip applicator.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know. That’s exactly what I was wondering! If you’re talking about the spot I *think* you’re talking about… I can’t believe some of you are so coy. The word is …get ready for this …clitoris. Now just repeat the word three times. There…that wasn’t so difficult, was it?
Actually, I thought she was referring to the labia. (shocking, isn’t it?) TriBaby _ – o ’ – __o – </_ ` ‘ – < – __/ /o_ – (()) (()) - / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon? Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips: http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html
I can’t believe some of you are so coy. The word is …get ready for this …clitoris. Now just repeat the word three times. There…that wasn’t so difficult, was it?
THANK YOU! To quote Mr. Rogers "it’s not a bad thing, boys and girls," but, as you know, we guys would NEVER have found it without some help from the ladies. You have to SAY where. As usual, the best solution is avoidance.
-"What’s wrong with a kiss, boy? Hmmmm? Why not start her off with a nice kiss? … You don’t have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate. Give her a kiss, boy." -"Suck the nipple, sir?" -"Good! Good. Well done, Wymer." -"Uh, stroking the thighs, sir." -"Yes. Yes, I suppose so. Hmm?" -"Oh, sir. Biting the neck." -"Yes. Good. Nibbling the earlobe, uhh, kneading the buttocks, and so on and so forth. So, we have all these possibilities before we STAMPEDE towards the clitoris, Watson."
Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.
I WAS WONDERING HOW DID IT GET HOT ANYWAY? Cool it off and the chafing will probably stop. If not see your DR. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.
I’ve also had this problem, with no ideas on solutions. Sometimes I just have to stay off the bike for a few days while "it" heals up. Do the male/female specific saddles with the cutouts help?? Does body glide help those aweful chamis shorts? Help! Andrea – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.
Body Glide is very good for this, hopefully smeared on in T1. Vaseline doesn’t work all that well, and is bad for wetsuits. I have also used a product called chamois butter with good results. When training, be sure to keep bike shorts meticulously clean: rinse them out immediately after use, and launder frequently with a gentle detergent. This will usually prevent chafing from starting in the first place. — Tony Verow, MD "Allow myself to introduce 34511 Highway #550 #206 Austin Powers Durango, CO 81301-6154 (home) 970-259-6230 (work) 970-382-1045 (page) 970-385-8057 (cell) 970-759-5112
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I WAS WONDERING HOW DID IT GET HOT ANYWAY? Cool it off and the chafing will probably stop. If not see your DR. Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.
Hilary: I was having the same problem until I switched saddles. I tried every brand of shorts out there. I had also tried all the different products for chafing. I finally broke down and bought a women’s saddle with the cut out. I had a hard time switching to one of these saddles just because I did not like the way they looked. I had tried various saddles without the cut out but once I did get one I have not had a problem since. Just FYI I bought the Terry Ti Race Liberator and had to buy directly from Terry. I could not find a bike shop in town that was carrying at the time. Good luck. Janie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.
I’ve also had this problem, with no ideas on solutions. Sometimes I just have to stay off the bike for a few days while "it" heals up. Do the male/female specific saddles with the cutouts help?? Does body glide help those aweful chamis shorts?
Body Glide seems to help everywhere, and now it’s a sunscreen, too. Brian "it even makes mountains of coleslaw" Wagner
I found olive oil is better than vasoline.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s gotten hot, I’ve had some problems with chafing in a delicate spot. What do y’all do? Vaseline? It’s in a spot where no clothing can go. Before you buy.
I found olive oil is better than vasoline.
With some roasted garlic and oregano, and just a pinch of cracked pepper.
It’s in a spot where no clothing can go.
Where’s this spot? Enquiring minds want to know.
Hello everyone, I will be graduating in May and will be moving back to my parent’s house in Belmar, NJ to look for a job this summer. I know it’s early, but could anyone familiar with the scene (races, clubs, yada yada) in the central/coastal regions of NJ drop me a line (off-list)? Thanks so much. Best, -Scott. — reply to sfk at brown dot edu
Hello everyone, I will be graduating in May and will be moving back to my parent’s house in Belmar, NJ to look for a job this summer. I know it’s early, but could anyone familiar with the scene (races, clubs, yada yada) in the central/coastal regions of NJ drop me a line (off-list)? Thanks so much. Best, -Scott.
Scott: First, check out Lin-Mark’s website at http://www.lin-mark.com . They have a comprehensive schedule for the bulk of triathlon around Central and Coastal NJ and supply applications for most of these triathlons. There also tris and bis in and around NYC run by the NY Triathlon Club. Check out the website http://www.nytc.org for their schedules as well. For triathlons more toward the southern end of NJ, or in that general area (MD, VA, etc.), you can try the Triathlantic website http://www.triath.com . Good luck. |26 | IMC’96: 10:36:37 | Fe | IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53 | | "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"
Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you trying to complete it, or do it fast? I fall into the just-wanting-to-get-it-over-with category, trying to do it with the minimum of swim training. I figured that time was far better spent training on the bike or run, where you will spend most of your time in the race, rather than spending many hours in the pool trying to hone a minute or two off my time. I hit the swim speed plateau a while back, where any increase in speed is going to take a lot more training. What I needed to do was be able to maintain my mediocre style for 3800m I spent between one and two hours a week in the pool preparing for my first Ironman. One session would be the usual club training session, usually less than an hour of interval type stuff, but with lots of chat. The other session would be a long, boring, steady swim. This built up to doing the distance. This would take me about 1:15 to 1:20. It didn’t make me fast, but it gave me the confidence of being able to keep a steady pace and not feeling too knackered at the end of it. I also kept track of my lap times, which again helped me maintain a steady pace (not too quick at the start, but forcing me to think about style towards the end). The big boost on the day of the race was my wetsuit – it immediately knocked about 10% off my time. Its a bit like training on an old heavy bike, and then switching to a lightweight racing frame. I used the wetsuit in a few short races, and one session of about an hour in a pool prior to the race just to check out for any chafing (no rubbing experienced – thanks QRman!) You have probably guessed that I don’t enjoy swimming too much. Strange thing was I really enjoyed the ironman swim. I knew I could relax and take it easy, that I had a long day ahead of me and this was just a warm up. I ended up really enjoying swimming from group to group, tagging behind people and picking the best line from bouy to bouy. I was quite disappointed when I hit the final leg and had to get out! Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com
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How much a wet suit helps depends on the swimmer. I believe it helps weak swimmers much more than strong swimmers. I consider myself a little better than average swimmer. Actually, I would be considered bad compared to most people who swam in college, but good when compared to the average triathlete. In an Ironman distance swim my swim time improved from 1:04 without and wet suit to 1:00 with the suit. The difference in my case is due to body position. I tend not to kick my feet enough. This causes poor position in the water (legs sink). With the suit on, my position and speed improve. Really good swimmers already have good position in the water so they tend not to gain as much. I would recommend (especially to poor swimmers) practicing with the suit on. I found that the different position in the water meant I was arching my back more. If I don’t stretch properly before a race I get out of the water with a very stiff back. Just some observations… Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul —
Open water is quite different also. In a pool I can swim a 19 min 1.5k in open water without a wet suit usually about 26 min with a wetsuit about 22-23 min. There’s a big varience. I use a wetsuin in everything except sprints. I think their as valuable as race wheels. Good luck mike
Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul
‘cos I’m a crap swimmer. I have a weak kick, and my body position in the water is poor. On long swims especially my kick is not much more than a counterbalance to my shoulder rotation. The wetsuit brings my legs and hips up to the surface. Over 3.8km, my time dropped from 1:15 in the pool to 1:08 open water with a wetsuit (both ‘easy’ swims). My open water 1500m time drops from about 29min to 27min. My 400m time (in the pool) drops from 6:28 to 5:50. Other people have pointed out that fast swimmers benefit less – and that’s very true. Fast swimmers already have a good body position, a wetsuit won’t improve it that much. Got to be a good wetsuit as well. I used to have a cheap Spartan Triflex suit, which fitted badly around the shoulders and wasn’t very flexible. I wasn’t much faster at all since the lack of flexibility meant that I couldn’t extend my arms properly. I got a QR fullsuit early this year, and that made a massive difference. You do need to try it out first, because it does feel different from no suit at all, but you should be able to achieve an identical stroke with a good suit as without. As to predicting a swim time – allow for inaccurately measured courses, and navigational errors. Get some open water practise in first, the joys of OW navigation have to be experienced! Being able to swim head up, sighting bouys and landmarks, being able to swim in a straight line, and bilateral breathing are all useful/essential. Also there’s the possible melee at the start, waves, wind and weed to deal with. Having said that, one of my most memorable triathlon experiences was a 2700m swim in a river, with the sun glinting off the surface, all the wild life on the banks (including a dog trying to rescue me). magic. Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com
Thanks Joel, I played water-polo for ten years, so the "melee" probably won’t bother me, and I used to do a lot of surf swimming in OZ (twelve years ago, admittedly), so the open water aspect’c not a bother. It was the relative speed I was interested in. p.s.with a 6:30′ish 400m you’d be in top 10% of swimmers in the sprint events I do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joel, This is a little off-track here, but I’m interested in your speed increase when using a wetsuit. I’m planning on doing my first Olympic distance (read open water) tri next year, and I’m trying to predict my swim time for it. I can manage about 25:30 – 26:00 in the pool and I have a modest aim for a 2hr30 time overall (I’m a cr*p cyclist). Paul ‘cos I’m a crap swimmer. I have a weak kick, and my body position in the water is poor. On long swims especially my kick is not much more than a counterbalance to my shoulder rotation. The wetsuit brings my legs and hips up to the surface. Over 3.8km, my time dropped from 1:15 in the pool to 1:08 open water with a wetsuit (both ‘easy’ swims). My open water 1500m time drops from about 29min to 27min. My 400m time (in the pool) drops from 6:28 to 5:50. Other people have pointed out that fast swimmers benefit less – and that’s very true. Fast swimmers already have a good body position, a wetsuit won’t improve it that much. Got to be a good wetsuit as well. I used to have a cheap Spartan Triflex suit, which fitted badly around the shoulders and wasn’t very flexible. I wasn’t much faster at all since the lack of flexibility meant that I couldn’t extend my arms properly. I got a QR fullsuit early this year, and that made a massive difference. You do need to try it out first, because it does feel different from no suit at all, but you should be able to achieve an identical stroke with a good suit as without. As to predicting a swim time – allow for inaccurately measured courses, and navigational errors. Get some open water practise in first, the joys of OW navigation have to be experienced! Being able to swim head up, sighting bouys and landmarks, being able to swim in a straight line, and bilateral breathing are all useful/essential. Also there’s the possible melee at the start, waves, wind and weed to deal with. Having said that, one of my most memorable triathlon experiences was a 2700m swim in a river, with the sun glinting off the surface, all the wild life on the banks (including a dog trying to rescue me). magic. Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com
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Give me some ideas about how to prepare for the ironman swim. Should I do long swims or what?
Are you trying to complete it, or do it fast? I fall into the just-wanting-to-get-it-over-with category, trying to do it with the minimum of swim training. I figured that time was far better spent training on the bike or run, where you will spend most of your time in the race, rather than spending many hours in the pool trying to hone a minute or two off my time. I hit the swim speed plateau a while back, where any increase in speed is going to take a lot more training. What I needed to do was be able to maintain my mediocre style for 3800m I spent between one and two hours a week in the pool preparing for my first Ironman. One session would be the usual club training session, usually less than an hour of interval type stuff, but with lots of chat. The other session would be a long, boring, steady swim. This built up to doing the distance. This would take me about 1:15 to 1:20. It didn’t make me fast, but it gave me the confidence of being able to keep a steady pace and not feeling too knackered at the end of it. I also kept track of my lap times, which again helped me maintain a steady pace (not too quick at the start, but forcing me to think about style towards the end). The big boost on the day of the race was my wetsuit – it immediately knocked about 10% off my time. Its a bit like training on an old heavy bike, and then switching to a lightweight racing frame. I used the wetsuit in a few short races, and one session of about an hour in a pool prior to the race just to check out for any chafing (no rubbing experienced – thanks QRman!) You have probably guessed that I don’t enjoy swimming too much. Strange thing was I really enjoyed the ironman swim. I knew I could relax and take it easy, that I had a long day ahead of me and this was just a warm up. I ended up really enjoying swimming from group to group, tagging behind people and picking the best line from bouy to bouy. I was quite disappointed when I hit the final leg and had to get out! Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Give me some ideas about how to prepare for the ironman swim. Should I do long swims or what?
I too am not recieving my subscription. I found the Jan./Feb. issue on the newstand though. Haven’t looked to see if there is anything more current. I too fell as though I got the short end on this one. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm
Yeah, I have been checking the newstand and it isn’t there. I was going to contact them online but the URL is no longer any good. I can only hope 
Maybe Tim Carlson can enlighten us – he lurks here. How about it, Tim? Wally
I think WINNNING has gone under. Anyone who subscribed better forget about their money. Personally I loved the new mag. Its focus on adventure racing was perfect for me. Too bad. Ken Treemoss2
I know that there were differing opinions on the NEW Winning Magazine. But, what happened to their web-site and why haven’t I received an issue after subscribing? I hope they don’t pull a 220 magazine on me!
I too am not recieving my subscription. I found the Jan./Feb. issue on the newstand though. Haven’t looked to see if there is anything more current. I too fell as though I got the short end on this one. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm
A little bit of juice can certainly help a man, too. JJ, You previously established a woman’s right to develop male secondary sex characteristics thru the use of anabolic steroids. Now you are now endorsing the male use of steroids, too?
BDD’s style of argument, made famous by a Wisconsinian in 1954, seems inappropriate in a newsgroup whose sole purpose is to provide a forum for athletes eager to discuss their shared concerns about their participation in triathlon. It is a method of proving one’s point that has never achieved any respect. Ruth Kazez
BDD’s style of argument, made famous by a Wisconsinian in 1954, seems inappropriate in a newsgroup whose sole purpose is to provide a forum for athletes eager to discuss their shared concerns about their participation in triathlon. It is a method of proving one’s point that has never achieved any respect.
This is the ‘net. Free speech and all. I hesitate to have anyone define a "sole purpose" for this newsgroup as a front to stifle a person’s independent voice. The social pressure you seek to create is closer to McCarthyism than anything. Seattle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruth Kazez
JJ, You previously established a woman’s right to develop male secondary sex characteristics thru the use of anabolic steroids. Now you are now endorsing the male use of steroids, too? This is getting out of hand. I’m putting you on RST probation, JJ. – BDD
Uh, oh, You should have sent a comment like that to me private e-mail. No need for RST probation. If you can produce my full quotes that establish either of those two statements that you made
A bunch of messages have been sent on the ITU’s battle over the use of the term World Championships to characterize the Ironman. My understanding is that the ITU will ban atheletes from competing in ITU races if they compete in the Ironman. The conclusion that seems to be reached is that an athelete who competes in the Ironman will not be able to compete in the Olympics. I don’t track with this conclusion. Doesn’t the United States and every other country have the right to select the atheletes they send to the Olympics? Can anyone shed any light on how the ITU controls the selection of atheletes? Miketri PS. If any of you cross trainers have not broken down and purchase a mountain bike its not to late for a Holiday plea to the spouse. Just purchased a Proflex 555 and have become addicted to another sport. I’ll be looking for the those off-road tri’s.
No. ITU has granted itself the authority to name the athletes that will compete for each country, what the qualifying race will be to name that team, and who is eligible to compete in it. Basically, ITU is a totalitarian dictatorship whose usefulness to the triathlon community is comparable to that of the Third Reich. And unless USA TRIATHLON stands up to them with an ultimatum for withdrawing from the organization unless they institute true democratic reform, there is nothing that will be done about it. Tricooter (Paul C. Burton)
There is a major battle going on over this very issue. Eight or ten International Federations have decided to take over the selection process from the NGBs Olympic Committees. In our case the USOC would eventually turn into a travel agency and nothing more. USAT would have nothing to do with Olympic process. IOC is supporting the idea because it gives them better control over their desire to reduce the number of athletes at the Games. Of course, for us, this movement plays into the hands of itu’s current attitude and desire to control our sport. At least, in this fight, we have a significant number of allies e.g., every NGB in the world will be up against their IFs. Jim Jimison
No. ITU has granted itself the authority to name the athletes that will compete for each country, what the qualifying race will be to name that team, and who is eligible to compete in it. Basically, ITU is a totalitarian dictatorship whose usefulness to the triathlon community is comparable to that of the Third Reich. And unless USA TRIATHLON stands up to them with an ultimatum for withdrawing from the organization unless they institute true democratic reform, there is nothing that will be done about it. Tricooter (Paul C. Burton)
I still don’t understand how the ITU can select athletes for the olympics. Surely the IOC runs the olympics and the national bodies select teams. Why don’t we just tell the ITU to piss off? Or better still just ignore them. tim
I wish it was that simple. IOC considers governance of individual sports "internal" matters to those sports…they don’t get involved….directly, anyway. IOC doesn’t know triathlon from horse feathers, and doesn’t care. What they do care about is that the ITU’s of the world are the governing entity for their sport. That’s how "the sport" got into the olympics. Unfortunately, Mark Sisson and Les MacHitler now have decided to dictate what the sport is. Our options are to play their game, to try to reform their misguided totalitarian dictatorship, or to withdraw. If we withdraw, we are no longer in the olympics, because we are not part of ITU. In my opinion, we aren’t in the olympics anyway, some aberration called swim, wheel suck, run got in, so no big loss. But it takes a majority of the USATri Board to dictate a withdrawl ultimatum to ITU. I plan to introduce the legislation, and push it. Those who will lose potential olympic money, or medals, will scream bloody murder, so it won’t be easy. I am going to ask for a rool call vote on the resolution, and I’ll post the results after the meeting. As for ITU authority, they give themselves the authority and then use treats and intimidation to bully the worlds small NGB’s into supporting them "or else." I’m sick of it and so are many others; hopefully we can do something about it! Paul C. Burton Tricooter
Interesting thoughts. Although I haven’t decided whether I agree with your approach or not (I’m leaning towards agreement), it is nice to see that pepole are not sitting on their hands afraid to make a move. If USA Triathlon were to withdraw from the ITU, what are the chances that other NGB’s would follow suit? From the non-US posts here on RST it would seem that the consensus in many other countries is similar. Perhaps a withdraw by USA Triathlon would indeed give other NGB’s the courage to do the same. Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wish it was that simple. IOC considers governance of individual sports "internal" matters to those sports…they don’t get involved….directly, anyway. IOC doesn’t know triathlon from horse feathers, and doesn’t care. What they do care about is that the ITU’s of the world are the governing entity for their sport. That’s how "the sport" got into the olympics. Unfortunately, Mark Sisson and Les MacHitler now have decided to dictate what the sport is. Our options are to play their game, to try to reform their misguided totalitarian dictatorship, or to withdraw. If we withdraw, we are no longer in the olympics, because we are not part of ITU. In my opinion, we aren’t in the olympics anyway, some aberration called swim, wheel suck, run got in, so no big loss. But it takes a majority of the USATri Board to dictate a withdrawl ultimatum to ITU. I plan to introduce the legislation, and push it. Those who will lose potential olympic money, or medals, will scream bloody murder, so it won’t be easy. I am going to ask for a rool call vote on the resolution, and I’ll post the results after the meeting. As for ITU authority, they give themselves the authority and then use treats and intimidation to bully the worlds small NGB’s into supporting them "or else." I’m sick of it and so are many others; hopefully we can do something about it! Paul C. Burton Tricooter
– Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb
Marty: That’s exactly what I’m hoping for….but first the resolutions have to pass. My feeling is that many will follow if they see that ITU is being successfully challenged. There will be opposition to these moves…some that don’t have the courage, some that disagree with the tactics, some that have other ideas. I’m open to listening to anyones thoughts on how to get drafting out of our sport, and democracy without intimidation and manipulation in. Thanks! Paul C. Burton TriCooter
: If we withdraw, we are no longer in the olympics, because we are not part of ITU. There is somewhat of a precedent in Canada’s withdrawal from international ice hockey competitions around the late 60’s / early 70’s in order to increase its negotiating power after failing to achieve changes in the rules of the (then) dictatorial International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) that prohibited professionals from competing, but allowed the Soviet Union to use a team of "non-professionals" who just happened to play hockey full-time for 11 months of the year. The negotiations were at least partly successful in the end, but they did take a number of years and ultimately professionals undoubtedly would have been allowed to compete in any event. Hockey being a team sport, I believe that technically the Canadian withdrawal was achieved by refusing to put a team together rather than an actual withdrawal from IIHF, but the effect is the same. Ralph Lindzon Hong Kong
Anybody have any idea when Alcatraz is. Also who can I contact. Tony Austin
Anybody have any idea when Alcatraz is. Also who can I contact. Tony Austin Tony, It’s getting pretty close so you better move FAST! (from "The Schedule") OCT 23, SAT (1.5mS – 21mB – 14mR) The Great Escape Alcatraz Triathlon (name has changed for legal reasons) 8am $160, $175 after 10/10 w/t-s. Pre-reg only. Swim Alcatraz to SF; Bike: SF area, across GG Bridge; Run: hilly trails. Enviro-Sports Box 1040, Stinson Beach, CA 94970 415-868-1829 fax -2611