Question:

Mark, Yes, but if I beat you in a race by running strategically, I still beat you, and most would consider me the superior runner.  Would you expect me to not drop you on a hill if I could, since this wouldn’t "even the odds"? Owen McCall "Get away from that water table!"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ahhh…  but let’s even the odds by giving the Gazelle a gourd of water Sounds like the victim was defeated strategically rather than "outrun". — mark Not necessarily.  Depends on how you define "run".  (God, I sound like Clinton.)  There is an African tribe who hunt Gazelles and other very fast ungulates, on foot.  Two guys start out at dawn carrying light spears, a water gourd, and a little gourd of dried sorghum to munch on.  They spot a victim and JOG toward it.  It runs away.  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.  They continue to pursue, JOGGING.  The team keeps the animal moving all day long and only run when necessary to drive the animal away from water holes;  the second guy refills the gourd at said water holes.  Near the end of the day, as the sun is setting, they JOG up to the Gazelle and chuck their spears into the prostrate, exhausted & dehydrated unfortunate. There you have it:  a way to earn your living by jogging.  Which is the better Owen McCall (snip) In fact, even the world’s best running humans are poor runners in comparison. — mark

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not necessarily.  Depends on how you define "run".  (God, I sound like Clinton.)  There is an African tribe who hunt Gazelles and other very fast ungulates, on foot.  Two guys start out at dawn carrying light spears, a water gourd, and a little gourd of dried sorghum to munch on.  They spot a victim and JOG toward it.  It runs away.  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.  They continue to pursue, JOGGING.  The team keeps the animal moving all day long and only run when necessary to drive the animal away from water holes;  the second guy refills the gourd at said water holes.  Near the end of the day, as the sun is setting, they JOG up to the Gazelle and chuck their spears into the prostrate, exhausted & dehydrated unfortunate. There you have it:  a way to earn your living by jogging.  Which is the better

But, if a hungry lion happened to show up while the guys were jogging after the gazelle what would the lion be having for lunch, gazelle or human? Who is the better runner then? It’s a bit like asking who is the better runner, Maurice Greene or Khalid Khannouchi. They’re both just better at what they do – neither is a better "runner" than the other. Perhaps your question should have been, which has a better combination of endurance and intelligence, the human or the gazelle? — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

Response:

Sorry, I still don’t get it.  What do you mean by hip rotation?  What I visualize when you say that is the kind of motion in your hips you would need in order to go from sitting with your legs out in front of you to sitting in the lotus position.  That can’t be right, so could you try

Imagine your hips locked and always perpenticular to the path you are running. Your legs would have a limited reach forward. Now imagine your hips rotating around its axis somewhat with each stride. Now, the legs are able to reach forward much farther. You can notice this while walking. jack

Response:

Ahhh…  but let’s even the odds by giving the Gazelle a gourd of water Sounds like the victim was defeated strategically rather than "outrun". — mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not necessarily.  Depends on how you define "run".  (God, I sound like Clinton.)  There is an African tribe who hunt Gazelles and other very fast ungulates, on foot.  Two guys start out at dawn carrying light spears, a water gourd, and a little gourd of dried sorghum to munch on.  They spot a victim and JOG toward it.  It runs away.  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.  They continue to pursue, JOGGING.  The team keeps the animal moving all day long and only run when necessary to drive the animal away from water holes;  the second guy refills the gourd at said water holes.  Near the end of the day, as the sun is setting, they JOG up to the Gazelle and chuck their spears into the prostrate, exhausted & dehydrated unfortunate. There you have it:  a way to earn your living by jogging.  Which is the better Owen McCall (snip) In fact, even the world’s best running humans are poor runners in comparison. — mark

Response:

Not necessarily.  Depends on how you define "run".  (God, I sound like Clinton.)  There is an African tribe who hunt Gazelles and other very fast ungulates, on foot.  Two guys start out at dawn carrying light spears, a water gourd, and a little gourd of dried sorghum to munch on.  They spot a victim and JOG toward it.  It runs away.  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat. Repeat.  They continue to pursue, JOGGING.  The team keeps the animal moving all day long and only run when necessary to drive the animal away from water holes;  the second guy refills the gourd at said water holes.  Near the end of the day, as the sun is setting, they JOG up to the Gazelle and chuck their spears into the prostrate, exhausted & dehydrated unfortunate.  There you have it:  a way to earn your living by jogging.  Which is the better Owen McCall

(snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact, even the world’s best running humans are poor runners in comparison. — mark

Response:

Interesting  stuff, Fred.  I agree that we human’s can learn a lot from studying the ‘ancient runners’ — which is just about any animal that can develop 15+mph speed over ground. We are new runners.  In fact, even the world’s best running humans are poor runners in comparison. — mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This brings up a further interesting question of where the energy expended in running actually goes: is most of the energy used in generating forward motion (I assume by the calves, hamstrings and glutes) or is the energy involved in pulling the leg itself forward for each new step (with which muscles? the quads, abs and, to an extent, shins?) a significant part of the total energy use. If, as your post suggests, little energy is used in actually moving the leg forward for the next step then any increase in stride length is basically "free" extra speed. Anyway, I think I’ll be seeing if I can do this at all in practice tonight’s fartlek run (always a good session for trying out new things)… Ok.  This is as good a thread as any to dump this on all of you. A runner moving at steady speed on level ground does no useful work.  His potential energy doesn’t change from one step to the next as long as he doesn’t go up or downhill, and at steady speed, his kinetic energy doesn’t change.  This means his efficiency (the ratio of output power to input power) is zero.  If we’re going to talk about this, we have to use another word, say ‘economy.’ Common sense tells us that he expends energy though, and the rate of expenditure is related to his speed over the ground and the economy of his gait. But what are the mechanics of that expenditure, and what are the elements that contribute to economy?  In the current r.r canon, proper gait has footstrike occurring immediately below the center of gravity and the linkage between center of gravity and the foot contact patch elongating at a rate just enough to maintain the center of gravity at a constant distance from the ground (no head bobbing.)  If we think about the desirability of the leg to act like a wheel with the center of gravity at the axle, we have to say that it’s nothing like a wheel unless we say that we’re going to elongate the spokes to the contact patch somehow to accommodate changing angle. So how does this happen?  The ‘linkage’ includes the pelvis, upper and lower leg bones, ankle and toe.  ’Elongation’ means some combination of rotation of the pelvis as discussed in this thread (moving the push-off hip joint rearward relative to the center of gravity), rotation of the pelvis about the fore-and-aft axis (moving the push-off hip joint down relative the the center of gravity), locking the knee, fully extending the ankle by contracting the hamstring and glute, and finally push-off with the toe. <digression  Some time ago, I think that it was in the triathlon group, there was a discussion about the desirability  of stretching the ankle in extension for runners.  The conclusion was that for runners, it was unnecessary, but for tris, it was desirable because extended ankles made for a more effective kick in the swim.  But if the above linkage model has any validity for runners, too, the members opposing the contraction of the hams and glutes should be as supple as possible. </digression With this motion, energy is expended in the following way.  In the ideal case in which the center of gravity has no up and down motion, the net vertical force on the push-off contact patch must be equal to the runner’s weight.  Isaac says so.  It’s the elongation of the linkage against this vertical force that expends the energy – force times distance, just like in high school physics.  Why does the rate of energy expenditure go up at higher speeds?  Higher speeds mean longer strides, longer strides mean bigger angles for the linkage to work through (it takes zero energy to support the center of gravity as it passes over the contact patch; it takes a rapidly increasing amount as the contact patch moves out behind).  qed. With the completely unscientific guidance of maybe 10 or 15 thousand miles of running with huskies and malamutes, I claim that economy comes from exploiting small motions of large muscle groups, and, at the appropriate times, locked out joints.  Arguably, the canine trot is the most economical way of getting over the countryside (1000 miles in ten days on kibbles and some salmon strips), and, I claim, it’s because they’ve become masters at the strategy.  At the trot, the entire complex action of their forequarters comes from a periodic flick of the shoulders.  Everything else, bones, joints, feet, pads simply fly forward into place and lock out at the instant they are needed.  In the rear quarters, things aren’t quite so simple, but the motion is dominated by the hams and the rump muscles. Dogs have been working on propulsion for a few million years longer than we have, so maybe there’s something to learn from them.  Our hams and glutes might be the most economical muscle groups at extending the linkage, but the large muscles of the torso work too.  I suspect that the least economical groups are the quads and whatever else is required to support the bobbing bent-knee bent-over gait such as the one I use cresting the hill at mile 7. It’s sometimes mentioned (but somehow the idea evidently hasn’t entered the canon) in the ‘cadence’ threads that the preferred (high) cadence is no mistake.  It derives (those contributors say) from the pendulum period of the free swinging leg.  If this be true, then the most economical way for biped to swing the leg forward is to flick that hip joint forward (and maybe up a bit) and wait for the leg to follow through.  No quads, no psoas, no nothing except the small motions of the large muscles of the torso working against the counter rotations of the shoulders and the motion of the arms. So far, I haven’t seen much discussion about whether or not the knee should lock out at this point, but ‘economy’ would certainly argue for it. Advice is usually worth what you pay for it. Fred Klingener Roxbury CT

Response:

Also remember, 8% of of your energy expenditure is to push air away (when running distance) and up to 15% if running 100 meters at good speed. (From ‘Lore of Running’)

Response:

With this motion, energy is expended in the following way.  In the ideal case in which the center of gravity has no up and down motion, the net vertical force on the push-off contact patch must be equal to the runner’s weight.  Isaac says so.  It’s the elongation of the linkage against this vertical force that expends the energy – force times distance, just like in high school physics.  Why does the rate of energy expenditure go up at higher speeds?  Higher speeds mean longer strides, longer strides mean bigger angles for the linkage to work through (it takes zero energy to support the center of gravity as it passes over the contact patch; it takes a rapidly increasing amount as the contact patch moves out behind).  qed.

To extend what you say here, there must always be some vertical motion because there are periods (however brief) during each stride when both feet are off the ground (let’s call it ‘flight time’) and at this moment the body is, effectively, in free fall. In theory also, as the stride length becomes longer the ratio of ground contact time to flight time reduces so for an equal cadence more energy needs to be expended combatting the effects of gravity. It would also be true that for a reduced cadence the flight time would be longer which maybe partly explains why higher cadences are more efficient, especially as the energy required to combat gravity would be proportional to the flight time squared. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

Response:

Yes but in a slightly different context. When I used to run competitive 400m’s, I felt warming up my hips so they would open up was my most important preparation for a race. Even now, I try to open them up to run faster without more effort.

Interesting.  I seem to recall that Australian Cathy Freeman had pronounced hip rotation on the final straight of her Olympic 400m final.  It pretty much looked to me like it was the difference in the race.

Response:

I getting a little confused by this thread… when you’re talking about ‘opening the hips’, do you mean they rotate more with the legs, or that they allow more forwards/backwards leg movement or something else? Could someone explain further? — Regards, Barry

Barry…. That’s exactly right — the hips rotate more with the legs *AND* allow more forward/backward leg movement.  By relaxing the hips and allowing them to rotate more freely with each stride, you are essentially adding length (and leverage) to your "legs".  As Ozzie mentioned above, picture your legs starting at the bottom of your rib cage instead of at your pelvic bone.  For me, that’s 10 inches of DESPERATELY NEEDED leg length (short inseam here). This rotation also seems to transfer some of the workload from the leg/hip muscles to the trunk. Seems to me this is an absolutely critical issue of form and mechanics.  If you take two identical runners (same physical characteristics and fitness) and runner A has limited hip rotation and runner B runs with relaxed, freely-rotating hips, runner B will have a longer stride without any additional effort required.  A 6 inch longer stride with the same cadence yields a pace difference of 10% for me.  If all I have to do is relax and be conscious of hip rotation to get that extra 10% on my speed, it’s a gift I’ll gladly accept! — mark

Response:

This brings up a further interesting question of where the energy expended in running actually goes: is most of the energy used in generating forward motion (I assume by the calves, hamstrings and glutes) or is the energy involved in pulling the leg itself forward for each new step (with which muscles? the quads, abs and, to an extent, shins?) a significant part of the total energy use. If, as your post suggests, little energy is used in actually moving the leg forward for the next step then any increase in stride length is basically "free" extra speed. Anyway, I think I’ll be seeing if I can do this at all in practice tonight’s fartlek run (always a good session for trying out new things)…

Ok.  This is as good a thread as any to dump this on all of you. A runner moving at steady speed on level ground does no useful work.  His potential energy doesn’t change from one step to the next as long as he doesn’t go up or downhill, and at steady speed, his kinetic energy doesn’t change.  This means his efficiency (the ratio of output power to input power) is zero.  If we’re going to talk about this, we have to use another word, say ‘economy.’ Common sense tells us that he expends energy though, and the rate of expenditure is related to his speed over the ground and the economy of his gait. But what are the mechanics of that expenditure, and what are the elements that contribute to economy?  In the current r.r canon, proper gait has footstrike occurring immediately below the center of gravity and the linkage between center of gravity and the foot contact patch elongating at a rate just enough to maintain the center of gravity at a constant distance from the ground (no head bobbing.)  If we think about the desirability of the leg to act like a wheel with the center of gravity at the axle, we have to say that it’s nothing like a wheel unless we say that we’re going to elongate the spokes to the contact patch somehow to accommodate changing angle. So how does this happen?  The ‘linkage’ includes the pelvis, upper and lower leg bones, ankle and toe.  ’Elongation’ means some combination of rotation of the pelvis as discussed in this thread (moving the push-off hip joint rearward relative to the center of gravity), rotation of the pelvis about the fore-and-aft axis (moving the push-off hip joint down relative the the center of gravity), locking the knee, fully extending the ankle by contracting the hamstring and glute, and finally push-off with the toe. <digression  Some time ago, I think that it was in the triathlon group, there was a discussion about the desirability  of stretching the ankle in extension for runners.  The conclusion was that for runners, it was unnecessary, but for tris, it was desirable because extended ankles made for a more effective kick in the swim.  But if the above linkage model has any validity for runners, too, the members opposing the contraction of the hams and glutes should be as supple as possible. </digression With this motion, energy is expended in the following way.  In the ideal case in which the center of gravity has no up and down motion, the net vertical force on the push-off contact patch must be equal to the runner’s weight.  Isaac says so.  It’s the elongation of the linkage against this vertical force that expends the energy – force times distance, just like in high school physics.  Why does the rate of energy expenditure go up at higher speeds?  Higher speeds mean longer strides, longer strides mean bigger angles for the linkage to work through (it takes zero energy to support the center of gravity as it passes over the contact patch; it takes a rapidly increasing amount as the contact patch moves out behind).  qed. With the completely unscientific guidance of maybe 10 or 15 thousand miles of running with huskies and malamutes, I claim that economy comes from exploiting small motions of large muscle groups, and, at the appropriate times, locked out joints.  Arguably, the canine trot is the most economical way of getting over the countryside (1000 miles in ten days on kibbles and some salmon strips), and, I claim, it’s because they’ve become masters at the strategy.  At the trot, the entire complex action of their forequarters comes from a periodic flick of the shoulders.  Everything else, bones, joints, feet, pads simply fly forward into place and lock out at the instant they are needed.  In the rear quarters, things aren’t quite so simple, but the motion is dominated by the hams and the rump muscles. Dogs have been working on propulsion for a few million years longer than we have, so maybe there’s something to learn from them.  Our hams and glutes might be the most economical muscle groups at extending the linkage, but the large muscles of the torso work too.  I suspect that the least economical groups are the quads and whatever else is required to support the bobbing bent-knee bent-over gait such as the one I use cresting the hill at mile 7. It’s sometimes mentioned (but somehow the idea evidently hasn’t entered the canon) in the ‘cadence’ threads that the preferred (high) cadence is no mistake.  It derives (those contributors say) from the pendulum period of the free swinging leg.  If this be true, then the most economical way for biped to swing the leg forward is to flick that hip joint forward (and maybe up a bit) and wait for the leg to follow through.  No quads, no psoas, no nothing except the small motions of the large muscles of the torso working against the counter rotations of the shoulders and the motion of the arms. So far, I haven’t seen much discussion about whether or not the knee should lock out at this point, but ‘economy’ would certainly argue for it. Advice is usually worth what you pay for it. Fred Klingener Roxbury CT

Response:

| That’s exactly right — the hips rotate more with the legs *AND* allow more | forward/backward leg movement.  By relaxing the hips and allowing them to | rotate more freely with each stride, you are essentially adding length (and | leverage) to your "legs". Sorry, I still don’t get it.  What do you mean by hip rotation?  What I visualize when you say that is the kind of motion in your hips you would need in order to go from sitting with your legs out in front of you to sitting in the lotus position.  That can’t be right, so could you try to describe it again? Zak

Response:

This brings up a further interesting question of where the energy expended in running actually goes: is most of the energy used in generating forward motion (I assume by the calves, hamstrings and glutes) or is the energy involved in pulling the leg itself forward for each new step (with which muscles? the quads, abs and, to an extent, shins?) a significant part of the total energy use. If, as your post suggests, little energy is used in actually moving the leg forward for the next step then any increase in stride length is basically "free" extra speed. Anyway, I think I’ll be seeing if I can do this at all in practice tonight’s fartlek run (always a good session for trying out new things)… — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I getting a little confused by this thread… when you’re talking about ‘opening the hips’, do you mean they rotate more with the legs, or that they allow more forwards/backwards leg movement or something else? Could someone explain further? — Regards, Barry Barry…. That’s exactly right — the hips rotate more with the legs *AND* allow more forward/backward leg movement.  By relaxing the hips and allowing them to rotate more freely with each stride, you are essentially adding length (and leverage) to your "legs".  As Ozzie mentioned above, picture your legs starting at the bottom of your rib cage instead of at your pelvic bone. For me, that’s 10 inches of DESPERATELY NEEDED leg length (short inseam here). This rotation also seems to transfer some of the workload from the leg/hip muscles to the trunk. Seems to me this is an absolutely critical issue of form and mechanics. If you take two identical runners (same physical characteristics and fitness) and runner A has limited hip rotation and runner B runs with relaxed, freely-rotating hips, runner B will have a longer stride without any additional effort required.  A 6 inch longer stride with the same cadence yields a pace difference of 10% for me.  If all I have to do is relax and be conscious of hip rotation to get that extra 10% on my speed, it’s a gift I’ll gladly accept! — mark

Response:

.. Seems to me this is an absolutely critical issue of form and mechanics. If you take two identical runners (same physical characteristics and fitness) and runner A has limited hip rotation and runner B runs with relaxed, freely-rotating hips, runner B will have a longer stride without any additional effort required.

Well, not quite, but the propulsion comes from the large muscle groups of the torso – a net plus. Fred

Response:

I made an interesting observation a few days ago.  (Please ignore any references to my HRM and treadmill — we’ll save those topics for another day.) I typically warm up (or transition from cycling to running) at a 8 minute mile pace for the first 5 minutes.  After a particularly difficult cycling session, my legs felt a little sluggish and I noticed my heart rate was hovering in the high 140s at the end of my 5 minute warm up period.  The run plan for the day called for 45 minutes at 7 minute mile pace.  At the 5 minute mark I increased the pace from 8mm to 7mm.  I felt the usual struggle for a few moments until I found my "groove" and fully adjusted to the new pace.  At the 10 minute point I noticed my heart rate had fallen to 140, which was simply the tangible confirmation of what I had already felt happening.  My stride had lengthened, I was more relaxed, more fluid than I had been at the slower "transition" pace.  And I was actually working LESS while running 1 minute per mile faster. Here’s what I think happened:  I was able to observe my running form in the reflection in the window in front of me.  I noticed that as I increased the pace the first thing I did was to increase my stride frequency…  this only lasted for about 30 seconds before my frequency began to settle back and my stride length began to increase.  At first I felt like I was over-striding. But after another half-minute or so, the new stride felt about right.  I noticed from my reflection that my vertical movement (head bobbing up and down) had become minimal and my hips seemed to be what had given me the increase in stride length.  At the slower pace, my hips remained basically squared to the front.  I could clearly see that my hips had opened up at the faster pace, thereby becoming an extension of my legs which allowed more "reach" without an increase in the effort required to push off. Ever make a similar observation? Does this mean that anyone who never crosses this "hip rotation threshold" pace might have hit an artificial speed barrier, and that simply learning to open their hips could improve their pace — dramatically? — Mark

Response:

I could clearly see that my hips had opened up at the faster pace, thereby becoming an extension of my legs which allowed more "reach" without an increase in the effort required to push off. Ever make a similar observation?

Yes but in a slightly different context. When I used to run competitive 400m’s, I felt warming up my hips so they would open up was my most important preparation for a race. Even now, I try to open them up to run faster without more effort. jack

Response:

I getting a little confused by this thread… when you’re talking about ‘opening the hips’, do you mean they rotate more with the legs, or that they allow more forwards/backwards leg movement or something else? Could someone explain further? — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://homepages.go.com/~barry841

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could clearly see that my hips had opened up at the faster pace, thereby becoming an extension of my legs which allowed more "reach" without an increase in the effort required to push off. Ever make a similar observation? Yes but in a slightly different context. When I used to run competitive 400m’s, I felt warming up my hips so they would open up was my most important preparation for a race. Even now, I try to open them up to run faster without more effort. jack

Response:

Question:

Are there any restrictions that would prevent someone from using a recumbant for an Ironman or half-Ironman? You’d give up some speed, but if you’re just there to finish, your legs, back, neck, and butt would be much fresher for the run. Any thoughts or sightings of such? Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Are there any restrictions that would prevent someone from using a recumbant for an Ironman or half-Ironman?

Recumbents are specifically banned from USAT sanctioned events. Charlie Crawford USAT Commissioner of Officials

Response:

Hi Dave, in Germany recumbants are not allowed in the bike leg of any triathlon. Best wishes Ulrich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any restrictions that would prevent someone from using a recumbant for an Ironman or half-Ironman? You’d give up some speed, but if you’re just there to finish, your legs, back, neck, and butt would be much fresher for the run. Any thoughts or sightings of such? Dave

Response:

I have never seen one in use in an Ironman, but in any event here are the USA Triathlon rules regarding bikes. 5.11 Bicycle Specifications. All bicycles and bicycle equipment used in USA Triathlon sanctioned events must conform to the specifications set forth in this Section. Any participant using a nonconforming bicycle or otherwise violating this Section shall be disqualified. (a) Length cannot exceed two meters, and width cannot exceed 75 centimeters. (b) The distance from the ground to the center of the chain wheel axle must measure at least 24 centimeters. (c) A vertical line touching the front most point of the saddle may be no more than 5 centimeters in front of and no more than 15 centimeters behind a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle, and the cyclist must not have the capability of adjusting the saddle beyond these limits during competition. (d) The "front-to-center" distance, which is defined as the distance between a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle and a vertical line passing through the center of the front axle, must measure not less than 54 centimeters and no more than 65 centimeters, except that in the case of bicycles for taller participants (where the distance between the center of the chain wheel axle and the top of the saddle is greater than 80 centimeters), the front-to-center distance cannot exceed 68 centimeters and, in the case of bicycles for shorter cyclists (where the distance between the center of the chain wheel axle and the top of the saddle is less than 71 centimeters), the front-to-center distance cannot be less than 50 centimeters. Applicability of the two foregoing exceptions is determined by measuring from a point on top of the saddle which is 14 centimeters behind the front most point of the saddle. (e) There must be no protective shield, fairing, or other device on any part of the bicycle (including frame, wheels, handlebars, chain wheel, and accessories) which has the effect of reducing resistance. Aerodynamic carriers for food, water, and or cycling provisions may be attached to or be an integral part of the aero-handlebars if they meet the following guidelines:      (i) the carrier can pass from front to rear, through a rectangular loop with      dimensions of 10 inches (25 cm) in width and 8 inches (20 cm) in height.      (ii) The front of the carrier is behind the cyclist’s hands when the hands are placed      in their customary position on the end of the aerobars, and      (iii) The length of the carrier is no greater than 10 inches (25 cm) front to rear. When the carrier is an integral part of the aerobar, this integrated unit must be able to pass through the rectangular loop defined in (i) above and the carrier portion of the unit must meet criteria (ii) and (iii). In the event that compliance with this section is in doubt with respect to any particular carrier or integrated unit, a member of USA Triathlon may submit the carrier or integrated unit to USA Triathlon for evaluation. (f) No additional equipment, whether it is worn under the competitor’s clothing, over the competitors clothing, or is otherwise attached to the athlete’s body, which has the effect of reducing wind resistance is permitted. An exception is the use of safety helmets as described in Section 5.9. Such helmets may have the effect of reducing the wind resistance of the head only. (g) Except as otherwise determined by the race director in the interest of safety, the front wheel may be of a different diameter than the rear wheel, but the front wheel must be of spoke construction. The rear wheel may be either spoke or solid construction. Wheel covers shall only be permitted on the rear wheel. (h) No wheel may contain any mechanism, which is capable of accelerating the wheel. (i) Handlebars and stem must be fashioned to prevent any danger. All handlebar ends must be solidly plugged to lessen the possibility of injury. (j) There must be one working brake on each of the two wheels. (k) All aspects of the bicycle must be safe to the user and to other participants in the event. Minimum safety standards include, but are not limited to, properly glued and sealed tires, tight headset and handlebars, and true wheels. 5.12 Untraditional or Unusual Bicycle Equipment. Any unusual bicycle construction or equipment to which the specifications in Section 5.11 cannot easily be applied shall be illegal unless prior approval is received from the Head Referee before the equipment is used in the event. Any violation of this Section shall result in disqualification.

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Question:

I find it rather interesting that here it is Sunday morning, 9:45am, and there is not a single post regarding the results of yesterday’s results from the pro division.  Compare that with the hourly updates from Kona last year.  I think that says it all.  I live about 3-4 hours from Cleveland, and I had no desire what so ever to go and watch.  I live about 9 hours (by plane) from Kona, and I wish I could figure out a way to take a week off work and go watch.  I haven’t ruled it out yet. — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

Response:

I know I’m probably not alone in holding this opinion, but I

really don’t consider it to be the championship of the sport in which I compete. The ITU may call it a triathlon, but it isn’t the same sport, so

why should I get excited about it?                                    – John

Yes, I agree.   Another thing, the ITU pretty much dictated which of our Pro athletes could go to Worlds by putting in additional criteria for qualification.  For example, Mary Ellen Powers was either 5th or 6th American at the US Pro Championship.(Shu’s) That should have qualified her since they were taking six pro men and women. But no, she had to have competed in an ITU race as well. Now, were there any in the US? No, there was one in Canada but she wasn’t able to go to that one because of a family commitment. The others were all too far and expensive. I’m sure Powers wasn’t the only one in this situation. Diana

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I find it rather interesting that here it is Sunday morning, 9:45am, and there is not a single post regarding the results of yesterday’s results from the pro division.  Compare that with the hourly updates from Kona last year.  I think that says it all.  

I know I’m probably not alone in holding this opinion, but I really don’t consider it to be the championship of the sport in which I compete. The ITU may call it a triathlon, but it isn’t the same sport, so why should I get excited about it?                                         — John — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

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Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada" Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Response:

Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada"

Well, there’s something for Canadians everywhere to be ashamed of. Their government has officially endorsed the pseudosport of draftathlon.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada" Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Whoopie.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada" Well, there’s something for Canadians everywhere to be ashamed of. Their government has officially endorsed the pseudosport of draftathlon.

When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins does it?  I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a pulse. Joel

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport.

I do have to agree on this point, although it was probably due to the lack of a commercial sponsor and the possibility of losing the event. Munich just let it go when this dilemma arose. As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of the participants will be in the draft legal event.

What about the 90% in the "no drafting" age group event that will, if the past is any indication, not have any draft enforcement or penalties, even though drafting will be rampant. The ITU doesn’t give a *&%# about the age group race other than the money it generates. They would do without if another source of funding could be found. <For the athletes in the Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins does it?

No, it takes incredible athleticism. It’s just that we would like to see the pros compete in something resembling the same sport we do. I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a pulse.

Actually it’s not that at all. I would compete in draft legal races, as well as non drafting ones. I have no objection to having variations to the standard format. That is what draft legal racing could be, just like races that use canoes, or mix the events up in different order. I do object to an authoritarian body deciding that looped course, draft legal racing will henceforth be the "official" version of triathlon for the Olympics and all "World Championship" events for the elite segment of the sport but will not be allowed now, or ever in the future, for age group athletes. What kind of ruling is this? As for the excitement factor, the bike segment is now about as thrilling as watching grass grow (unless there’s a crash. now that’s real excitement!). Maybe Greco-Roman Wrestling should take some tips from the WWF to be more "exciting and TV friendly". Put those little gymnasts in skimpier costumes. With a little imagination we could spice up the entire Olympics. Let’s run the marathon on a track so everyone can see better and they can sell tickets. Why haven’t they put road cycling on a 5 mile loop for easier TV coverage? These ideas would be considered absurd by the participants in these sports. Only triathlon has been drastically altered from it’s original format and principle of individual effort in 3 disciplines to be more "TV and audience friendly". Mark Sisson said in the latest issue of Triathlete magazine that he saw many reasons for the change, and only one against it….tradition. Well, Mark, in most sport tradition means a hell of a lot. But I guess he and Les can’t see past the dollar signs. I think the ITU and the Olympics, which could have had a great, positive effect on the sport have, instead, done nothing but divide. What will happen to the newcomers who watch the Olympics and then get DQ’d when they make the step to complete a triathlon? I’m tired of this argument. It’s gone on for too long. Andrew — Andrew Peabody/Karen Fisher Coconut Grove, FL

Response:

When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins does it?  I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a pulse. Joel

In addition to Andrew Peabody’s excellent points (yes, why DON’t we change Greco-Roman wrestling in the Olympics to a WWF steel cage match to increase TV viewership, and maybe even go to coed naked gymnastics?) Just a few things: 1. Who says government sponsorchip is automatically a good thing (except Karl Marx, that is?) 2. The point about draftathlon is that it completely negates the entire reason for triathlon’s existence.  It is no longer an individual sport with drafting, as covert alliances and collusion are inevitable.  More important, the entire point of multisport racing is that competitors must be competitive in ALL the diciplines, and that competitive advantage may be gained or lost in all segments of the race.  As this years ITU pro races have aptly demonstrated, draftathlon is little more than a footrace with a warmup, where a stellar performance swimmming or biking is completely negated by drafting on the bike.  Of course, this tendency to "redistribute the competitive wealth" two-thirds of the way through the race probably appeals to the socialist sensibilities of someone who sees government sponsorship as some sort of grail worth the sacrifice of the soul of the sport. 3. As for the current limitation to ITU elite racing, what happens there has a top down effect on the rest of the sport.  As posts here have demonstrated, new peoplw are coming to the sport after seeing TV coverage of ITU events with no idea of what real triathlon is, and some have expressed disappointment upon learning that they would actually have to COMPETE  throughout the race.  This is especially dangerous when you consider that the primary source of new triathletes is the running community, and draftathlon favors such people.  Triathlon will NOT remain draft free unless we are all vigilant in fighting the change.

Response:

You may be missing a subtle political point here. The federal government in Canada wants to demonstrate to the people of the province of Quebec (where the ITU’s will be held) that they are doing a lot for them. In sponsoring the event, the federal government shows that it can bring "important" cultural/sport/economic events to the province and so upstage the provincial government and it’s desire for separation from the rest of Canada. Stephen

Interesting point. Thanks for that perspective. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. Why is it good that a national government would reduce itself to shilling a race? You might expect it of an emerging third world nation, but Canada?

        Remember the 1976 Montreal Olympics or the 2000 Sydney Games or most every other games except LA and Atlanta relied on government funding (some indirect funding for LA and ATL in security and infrastructure).  The IOC evens demands government financing or backing (what else from a bunch of socialists). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What’s next, the official Canadian dental floss? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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A few years ago the Howard County Government took on title sponsorship of the USAT National Age-Group Championship, held in Columbia, MD. It IS a good thing if you can get a government to endorse your sport. Ray Plotecia

|When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a |triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. |As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of |the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the |Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess |it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins |does it? | I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. |You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone |who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a |pulse. |Joel |

Response:

A few years ago the Howard County Government took on title sponsorship of the USAT National Age-Group Championship, held in Columbia, MD. It IS a good thing if you can get a government to endorse your sport.

        I disagree from a political philosophy with government financially supporting sports except in the most remote manner such as security that would be needed for any gathering of people.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ray Plotecia |When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a |triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. |As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of |the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the |Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess |it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins |does it? | I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. |You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone |who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a |pulse. |Joel |

Response:

You may be missing a subtle political point here. The federal government in Canada wants to demonstrate to the people of the province of Quebec (where the ITU’s will be held) that they are doing a lot for them. In sponsoring the event, the federal government shows that it can bring "important" cultural/sport/economic events to the province and so upstage the provincial government and it’s desire for separation from the rest of Canada. Stephen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. Why is it good that a national government would reduce itself to shilling a race? You might expect it of an emerging third world nation, but Canada? What’s next, the official Canadian dental floss? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport.

Why is it good that a national government would reduce itself to shilling a race? You might expect it of an emerging third world nation, but Canada? What’s next, the official Canadian dental floss? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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Question:

At least you get your Triathlete ! Subscribed in April, still nothing quick $60.00AUD for no work. Lloyd

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        I try to avoid being negative, but the writing in Triathlete magazine is pretty weak.  Outside and Bicycling magazines, otoh, are superb.         Dan T.

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I disagree with your opinion. Mitch Thrower, Scott Tinley, Nancy Clark, and TJ Murphy to name a few write better training specific articles than I have ever read in any Outside or bicycle magazine. Mitch  Thrower has written some of the best triathlon editorial and insight ful articles anywhere in the sport. The latest Triathlete magazine has a beautiful story on IM and triathlon. The pictures are excellent also. Check it out. Alan Ley

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I have to agree with Alan.  I’ve bought Triathlete for the better part of 12 years.  I’ve seen an issue here or there that was a little less than great, but for the most part, the mag is good month after month.  I especially love Scott Tinley’s slant on things (I usally turn to the the last page first..)  As far as I’m concerned, the mag rates on top, and I do read Outside, RW, and alot of the rest.                          Buck

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i’m thinking of subscribing but I already have swim mag as well as runners world.

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i’m thinking of subscribing but I already have swim mag as well as runners world.

I enjoy reading it, but Inside Triathlon is head and shoulders above it. — Rob Blomquist aka TriDog Seattle, WA http://www2.jps.net/~robbo

Response:

I get it….. it sucks!  Nowhere near the quality of Runner’s World, and getting worse with every issue.  I’m waiting to see teen heartthrobs on next month’s cover, or some such crap.  I get it because, frankly, it at least keeps me in touch, does have some good training articles, and maybe because I’m just not too bright.  I’d recommend bumming a used copy off somebody when they are done reading it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m thinking of subscribing but I already have swim mag as well as runners world.

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Question:

2) It’s virtually open season on cyclists in the US.  A recent article in the SF Chronicle describes motorists and police attempts to supress noontime open rides in the Palo Alto vicinity, because the bikes sometimes ride side-by-side and make passing more difficult.

  Is it legal for them to ride side-by-side?  In Maryland (where I police) they may only ride two abreast if the flow of traffic is unimpeeded.  In any case, they have to ride as far to the right as possible, with traffic.  A cyclist still is required to follow the rules of the road that apply to motor vehicles.   4)  Read any athlete’s description of a visit to France:  cars drive slowly and patiently behind bicyclists until there is a safe place to pass.  It could not be more different here — everybody’s in a hurry, no one has time to wait, and bicylists are oddballs who, at best, shouldn’t be there and, at worst, get what they deserve.

  Differant cultures, I’m sorry (sometimes) to say… 5)  Bicyclists who run lights and stop signs, cut ahead of cars, or make rude gestures etc. are at least a part of the problem.   I have several good-hearted, somewhat athletic friends (or at least fellow travellers) who have told me that they find cyclists to be arrogant or obnoxious.

  Like you, I’m an auto driver and cyclist.  I’ve seen some really rude and obnoxious cyclists.  I’ve written a few traffic tickets for doing REALLY stupid things to a couple of cyclists.. 6)  Here’s the rule, which should go without saying:  Users of the road have the right of way in the following priority, assuming everyone is obeying traffic regulations:  walkers, runners, cyclists, cars and other motor vehicles.  That means cyclists must obey the rules and defer to walkers and runners.  Cyclists are entitled to courtesy from motor vehicles.  Stick up for your rights, but don’t be a jerk.  If a car treats you courtiously, smile and say thanks.

  But still remember that a car weighs a couple thousand pounds, and you and your bike don’t.  I can tell you from accident reconstruction work that the bike will loose big time. 7)  A civil suit is not going to get Judy F back.  It’s also not going to get any money — these defendants don’t have any.  There will be no justice in this case.

  No, a civil suit won’t  get her back.  The civil suit will be able to draw from his auto insurance, possibly homeowners insurance, etc.   But, ultimatly, the jury did their best, and rendered the decision based on the laws that they had to apply in the case.     I find think what the two people did was vile, and I do wish that the law allowed them both to be prosecuted for homicide.  Interesting tactic for the nephew to say at the younger one’s trial "His dad grabbed the steering wheel right before she was hit" to "I don’t remember if he had it or not."  when the father was up for trial. It’s a shame that people aren’t charged with perjury more often. They’ll both be judged again in another place…

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7.  The fundamental basis of our legal system is not justice it is process. 5 & 6.  Most motorists believe that the roads are for cars only and that bicyclists and runners should find other places.  Many people believe that bicycles should be riden on the sidewalks and off road only, especially the causal riders that I know who ride on nature trails two times per year.  These people do not understand what riding 25mph for one hour is like.  Cyclists must stand up for themselves.  I think that the department of transportation could help by requiring questions on the Driver’s Licences Exams that asked whether or not bicycles had the right to use the streets. There are plenty of bad drivers out there.  I think that most drivers are cut off, gestured at, etc… by other drivers all of the time.  I’ve never been cut off, gestered at, etc… by another cyclist while on my bike. Traffic lights:  Yes, i run lights.  Why?  because many operate on sensors. These sensors do not detect the presence of a bike or runner.   Cut ahead of cars…..does this mean that if a bike is turning left at an intersection and heads to the left hand turn lane well in front of the auto traffic behind so that in the turn lane it is in front of some cars?? Let’s face it your friends don’t know how to ride bikes in traffic unless they have done it.  BUT their attitude is the problem.  Some cyclists handle this by making rude gestures.  So what, some motorists handle it by making rude gestures.  All are wrong in the way that they are expressing themselves.  I’ve had many rude gestures made at me and yelling, honking, grazing, etc…. while riding on the shoulder.  My solution is to wave and if i catch up to say hello. My final statement is that the auto driver’s complaints are BULLSHIT. Chicagoland Triathlete -rjh

make rude – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gestures etc. are at least a part of the problem.   I have several good-hearted, somewhat athletic friends (or at least fellow travellers) who have told me that they find cyclists to be arrogant or obnoxious. 6)  Here’s the rule, which should go without saying:  Users of the road have the right of way in the following priority, assuming everyone is obeying traffic regulations:  walkers, runners, cyclists, cars and other motor vehicles.  That means cyclists must obey the rules and defer to walkers and runners.  Cyclists are entitled to courtesy from motor vehicles.  Stick up for your rights, but don’t be a jerk.  If a car treats you courtiously, smile and say thanks. 7)  A civil suit is not going to get Judy F back.  It’s also not going to get any money — these defendants don’t have any.  There will be no justice in this case.

Response:

Excellent comments. Mine are interspersed below… 1) The slaps on the wrists of the father and son are distressing…

-Agreed 2) It’s virtually open season on cyclists in the US.  

-Agreed. People are just plain idiotic in their cars. 3)  All the publicity in NY about the bike messenger…

-Agreed. 4)  Read any athlete’s description of a visit to France:

-Also the same in the Netherlands. I was there with bike a few years ago, and had trouble when the motorists there were considerate, patient, etc. I wonder what they thought of the goofy American… 5)  Bicyclists who run lights and stop signs…

-Agreed. I have had more than one recreational and/or  "real" cyclists pull crazy moves while I was driving.  It does not help our cause much.   6)  Here’s the rule, which should go without saying:

-If only everyone would follow it. 7)  A civil suit is not going to get Judy F back.

-’Tis a shame that basically there is nothing that can  be done. I don’t really *understand* how the law/loopholes  basically allowed the act to go unpunished. -Rolf — I am Iron Mac.            The Ironman is over in the blink of an eye.                                                    Enjoy it! IMC’94/14:07    IMC’95/11:59    IMC’97/12:12    IMC’98/Confirmed

Response:

1) The slap on the wrists of the father and son are distressing, to say the least.  Whether Maryland law requires this unjust result is in at least one aspect beside the point. 2) It’s virtually open season on cyclists in the US.  A recent article in the SF Chronicle describes motorists and police attempts to supress noontime open rides in the Palo Alto vicinity, because the bikes sometimes ride side-by-side and make passing more difficult. 3)  All the publicity in NY about the bike messenger who was speeding on the sidewalk (where he definitely should not have been) and killed a pedestrian ignores the fact that bicyclists are injured almost daily by taxis and buses in NY. 4)  Read any athlete’s description of a visit to France:  cars drive slowly and patiently behind bicyclists until there is a safe place to pass.  It could not be more different here — everybody’s in a hurry, no one has time to wait, and bicylists are oddballs who, at best, shouldn’t be there and, at worst, get what they deserve. 5)  Bicyclists who run lights and stop signs, cut ahead of cars, or make rude gestures etc. are at least a part of the problem.   I have several good-hearted, somewhat athletic friends (or at least fellow travellers) who have told me that they find cyclists to be arrogant or obnoxious. 6)  Here’s the rule, which should go without saying:  Users of the road have the right of way in the following priority, assuming everyone is obeying traffic regulations:  walkers, runners, cyclists, cars and other motor vehicles.  That means cyclists must obey the rules and defer to walkers and runners.  Cyclists are entitled to courtesy from motor vehicles.  Stick up for your rights, but don’t be a jerk.  If a car treats you courtiously, smile and say thanks. 7)  A civil suit is not going to get Judy F back.  It’s also not going to get any money — these defendants don’t have any.  There will be no justice in this case.

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Question:

Hi there,         Spencer’s shorts are part of the Speedo TRIATHelite range sold only in Europe. The last time I heard Speedo are not going to sell the range in the states. I could give you the name of a shop that boasts world wide sales if you want in England. Chris carpenter — Chris Carpenter at the Max-Planck-Insitut fuer Polymerforschung voice: +49 6131 379217           : Zipp 2001…..Speed Weaponry fax:   +49 6131 379100           : Saucony,  Loyal to the sport www:   http://www.mpip-mainz.mpg.de/~carpent

Response:

I believe the shorts/suits are Speedo Aquablade "Jammers"…but then again, Spencer could easily have something custom made… Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

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Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

Mike: They are available at many triathlon/running shops. Call your local stores first. If you fail, give Inside/Out Sports a call. I know that they have them in stock. Call Cid or Aaron at (919) 755-6202. Cheers Keith Simmons Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits (804) 288-6000

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

Response:

I’ve been looking for the same.  I’ve seen them in World Wide Aquatics catalog as well as in the Speedo store in the mall, but to be honest I wasn’t impressed.  The Speedo store wanted $40-50 and they were very thin(seems you should get a little more durable weight material for that much). DeSoto has something similar for women in their catalog as well as on their website(on sale for quite cheap).  In an email, Emilio told me that they don’t have a similar short for men yet, but he’s had a lot of guys purchase the women’s short in one of the more neutral colors.  That doesn’t really help me since the large is still too small for my Herculean(yeah right) waist. Stacy J. Hills Reston, VA … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

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Question:

I need some opinions from the seasoned veterans.  I am into my 3rd season of triathlon/biathlons this year … and my question is about cramps.  In the past I have NEVER had any problems with cramping during running or biking.  During my past two events I have had severe cramping in my calves during the bike segment (usually during the last few miles of the bike ride). I have not changed my training or diet during this time.  I am stumped and frustrated.  Does anyone have any ideas or comments? Thanks, Andrew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some opinions from the seasoned veterans.  I am into my 3rd season of triathlon/biathlons this year … and my question is about cramps. In the past I have NEVER had any problems with cramping during running or biking.  During my past two events I have had severe cramping in my calves during the bike segment (usually during the last few miles of the bike ride). I have not changed my training or diet during this time.  I am stumped and frustrated.  Does anyone have any ideas or comments? Thanks, Andrew

 I had a calf cramping episode for a few weeks this summer during some long training sessions.  My conclusion was to address three issues: 1. hydration- really pushed the fluids  2. sodium- increased my sodium intake a little  3. magnesium- also increased this mineral intake.   I think hydration is the most important, but I have had no problems since training in the florida heat/humidity. seeyatmk bradenton,florida

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Question:

David, you had me laughing and crying (thinking back to my first marathon). You and Tri-baby should do a race together then write about the race. The story would be great! Steve

Response:

Ahh – like thanks for the encouragement. Actually, loved the story.  I plan on doing my first marathon May 4 in Pittsburgh.  (I’m told it is the flatest marathon in the world. ).   Now I know why I keep forcing myself to go to the gym or outside in 30F weather to do a 10 miler.   –Eric   When you run uphill you get closer to god.

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Absolutely great story, David! Can’t wait to see IMC ‘97! -Rolf — Call me IronMac …                         … I tri …                                          … I prefer Macintosh! IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47   IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35    IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

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        Triathlon season is nearly here, and I for one am filled with anticipation. But in my efforts to focus on the positive aspects of last season, I am still reminded of the negative. This is a race report that should be titled "How Not to Run A Marathon" or "I Can’t Believe I Am Still Alive". Read on, take this as a lesson, as humor, and as a promise that I will do much better next time around. Background: I decided to be a triathlete last march, so in preparation I ran a couple of local running races in spring. On a whim, I decided to do a marathon, with a scant 7 weeks of training. Bad Idea… Ignorance is not bliss. Race Report: 22th Annual National Capital Marathon      May 12, 1996 saw me compete in my first marathon. Please note I wrote "compete" not run. The race in question was the 22th annual Nation Capital Marathon, raced in and around downtown Ottawa. My training for this event consisted of running 5 to 10 km. every day since March 1st, coupled with expensive an jacket and shoes no less. (Yes, the all important long run was not a weekly event) At least this was the plan; I had the shoes but the training was not forthcoming. I had started strong, braved the cold and the training was quite effective. Unfortunately, school (exams), work, and a variety of imaginative excuses cut down my running significantly. I was realistically running 25 km. a week, with my furthest distance being around 12 km. Nevertheless I was motivated, eager, and look, I had new gear.      Careful examination of the weather reports for race day promised "lower than seasonable temperatures" coupled with rain and wind. That didn’t faze me, as I told anyone who would listen, "I like running when it is cold, I don’t sweat as much." My listeners invariably ignored that comment and replied, "Wow, you’re going to run a marathon." I would reply with a nod, and say something stupid about how I wanted to test myself. Yes Houston, The Ego has landed. More on weather later.      Leading up to this event saw me consuming carbohydrates, drinking lots of water, and cutting back on my workouts. The later part wasn’t hard, cutting back meant that I didn’t have to make any excuses not to run. But in all fairness, a large object at work came in contact with my knee and I wouldn’t have been able to run anyway. The night before the big event saw me drinking lots of water and watching Pretty Woman alone. Yes, the social life of an wannbe athlete. I went to bed at around 11 o’clock and set my alarm for 6:30. I couldn’t sleep: I was nervous, Chariots of Fire dreams, and an overwhelming urge to piss every five minutes kept me awake for a good hour and a half.      Race day saw me playing "hammer the snooze button every five minutes for a good half hour" before finally getting out of bed. My house was freezing, we had stopped turning on the heater because it was supposed to be spring. Remember those "lower than seasonal temperatures…" With my stomach satisfied with more water, a bagel, and an apple I jumped into my parents van (race day means reliable transportation is needed) and drove to the races. I wasn’t sure about what clothes to wear, at this point the weather was "just cold". I finally decided to pack everything and resolved to wear what everyone else was wearing. (not literally) As I drove downtown it started to rain/snow and my running glory dreams slowly started to ebb away. When I arrived on site I searched fruitlessly for a free parking spot. I eventually parked in a "one hour parking only spot" on the principle that if I get towed it won’t ruin my day. After all, I would have run a marathon and feeling like crap anyway. (Bad but by this time realistic attitude) In the big organization building (forget the name) I mingled with my fellow runners and casually observed what they were wearing. Everything from parkas to tank tops where evident, and I realized that I would have to make up my own mind. Track pants: good choice and I had worn them for my previous two 10 km. runs. Race tee-shirt: bad choice, new and not broken in. (More on chaffing later) Expensive K-way running jacket (Got it for half price): good choice as it rained/snowed for most of the race.      "Three minutes to start", was the announcement. Stop stretching, drink more water, look confident, and run to the Blue Bombers (portable blue shitters) Business attended to and its a dash to the start line… breathing hard all ready… find a start position… chose to start with the 3:45 wave… more small stretches… look confident even thought I am really nervous… damn this jacket I’m hot already… search for an excuse not to do this… race begins… 15 seconds later number 5815 can start running… I’m off like a prom dress!!      The rest of this sordid tale shall be told in bits and pieces as I was not exactly in the proper mind set to remember each and every part.      The race begins with a small climb up Elgin street, I reminisced about pulling my Rich-shaw up this very hill, only this time I’m not pulling a load of two obnoxious and drunk fat guys with their mutual girl-friend. Look at me go! Damn these crowds the’re holding me back!      Soon I reach the Alexandra bridge on the way to Hull. (Rick- shaw reminisce deleted) I was two minutes over my planned pacing due to my slow start and large crowds. No problem, I’ll make it up later. I can almost taste that 3:45. I laugh and joke with my fellow runners as we get buffed my a very cold wind off the water. We can handle it, we’re Canadian!      The weather co-operated for the next ten kilometres, I swear at myself for wearing a jacket. Look at those people in their tank- tops, look at them go, if I had a tank-top I would be winning this race.      From the 5 km. I find myself keeping pace with two almost identically dressed and sized women. They talk about running, boyfriends, and life in general, never mind that they are running a marathon. These "Bobsy twins" run well so I follow them for an hour or so.      By kilometre twelve mother nature rears her ugly head. The wind picks up and the cold rain starts to fall. Soon I am running with my head down, trying to shield my face from the freezing rain. The wind gusts at the least appropriate places, namely when I am facing it or when I am going up a hill. Look at those people in soaking wet tank-tops, they look even more miserable than me. Good thing I wore my jacket!      Going down Queen-Elizabeth drive from kilometre 15 to 21 was particular miserable for the same reasons. At one point a women appears and runs beside her man, shouting encouragement and motivating him. Looking miserable wearing his wet tee-shirt and shorts, I think he would have preferred a hug. Still pacing with the Bobsy twins, I wonder if they have noticed me.      The official half-way point is greeted with some remorse. I watch the half-marathoners finish to the cheering crowd, and I come to the stark realization that I would have to do another loop of the course with the same conditions as I just experienced. Depressing, but I am half way done! My time was 1:53, I was on pace to break 4 hours! The Elgin street hill was not as easy as before…      Kilometre 25 saw an attractive women pull up beside me. We exchanged the typical race banter, "pretty miserable huh?" "yah, this is a hard one". Her pace was a little faster than mine, but a good motivater for me to pick up the pace. She soon said that this was her second race and she wanted to break 4 hours. After a little more talk she accelerated and soon disappeared. Wheels began turning in my head: she was going to break 4 hours… I wanted to break 4 hours… she was running faster than me… I couldn’t run any faster… I think I am in trouble… Worst, the Bobsy twins where way ahead…      My legs chose to disappear around kilometre 27. I passed a tall guy who was walking, and silently vowed that I would never walk. A kilometre later my legs parted company and I was slowed to an almost crawl. What’s this? Then I realized, I had just run more in 2:30 hours than I had been running in the weeks before the race. Shit! Sucks to be me. I soon realized that the rest of this race would be a matter of survival, forget about making a good time. People began to pass me and I feared for my survival. I didn’t consider quitting because to get to the finish line and where I was parked would necessitate me walking another 15 km. anyway. I reasoned that the finish line, my transportation, and a hot bath would come quicker if I ran instead of walking. So I gritted my teeth and resumed my pathetic pace. Walk… Run… Walk… Consider crawling walked instead… Run… Walk… Run…      To Island Park Drive… Under the Queensway… Ash Lane… Nice water… Morningside drive… Man this marathon stuff sucks. I selfishly felt a little better when I passed a tank-top clad runner in obvious distress. My moral plummeted as he passed me, we continued our personal game of cat and mouse or a couple of kilometres until I pulled ahead of him. It was on Morningside where I was passed by a woman who must have been over 60 years old. I silently congratulated her for her tenacity and swore at myself for my weakness. This future Ironman has just been passed by a grandmother, the shame! It is this kind of experience that makes one vow to quit the sport or to double my training. At kilometre 30 my heart was with the former.      Oh look, kilometre 34, only 8.2 to go. I attached my crippled form to a couple who looked perfectly contented with the pace they were setting. Hey, when I run with someone I don’t stop as much, maybe I will get through this yet. We stop at 36 km. at the water point, I don’t want to be an obvious tag along so I leave before them. I figured that when they passed me again I would resume pacing them. The problem came when they passed me, I couldn’t keep up anymore.      The last 5 kilometres saw my staggering form alternate between

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Question:

….  I think the biggest problem I have with this sport is that participants have to  constantly worry whether or not they have the latest and greatest gadget. Also, why don’t they do away with wetsuits for the Olympics?  Speed in stripping off your clothing makes for an awkward part of an athletic event. sign me, The Less Technology the Better… after all, the Ancient Greeks competed in the nude.

yes, and they are all dead now…..    :-)

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Article may be of interest.  It very briefly mentions that modern pentathlon is on the wane(sp?) as an Olympic sport.  

It’s too bad: except for the fact that women can’t compete in it (why IS that, anyway?)  I always thought the Pentathlon was one of the coolest and most interesting Olympic sports, and never understood why it didn’t get more attention!  There’s something to be said for a sport that stresses competition in different ways. BTW, does anyone think it’s possible that the Olympic Triathlon will ever require athletes to ride a generic (same model & equipment) bicycle much as Pentathletes ride a generic horse?  Why isn’t that considered? Wouldn’t that make competition more dependent on ability rather than a piece of equipment(in other words, money)?  I think the biggest problem I have with this sport is that participants have to  constantly worry whether or not they have the latest and greatest gadget. Also, why don’t they do away with wetsuits for the Olympics?  Speed in stripping off your clothing makes for an awkward part of an athletic event. sign me, The Less Technology the Better… after all, the Ancient Greeks competed in the nude.

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BTW, does anyone think it’s possible that the Olympic Triathlon will ever require athletes to ride a generic (same model & equipment) bicycle much as Pentathletes ride a generic horse?  Why isn’t that considered? Wouldn’t that make competition more dependent on ability rather than a piece of equipment(in other words, money)?  I think the biggest problem I have with this sport is that participants have to  constantly worry whether or not they have the latest and greatest gadget.

I agree!!  Everyone should be required to ride the same model bike not only at the Olympics but at all Triathlons!!  The biggest problem with this sport is that it is way to elitist.  If you are an average incomed person and can

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I’m a 57 year old male who would love to get a new bike (or maybe just a new frame – 58cm). Right now I have an 8 year old Nishiki Carbon Fiber frame with old style Scott bars, grip shift and Dura Ace. I race with an old style Hed Disk. I have averaged as much as 21 mph on a flat course (Milwaukee) but that was 6 years ago. Most courses I race on now are hilly and that plus advancing age is slowing me down. This is something of an emotional issue – practically speaking, would a Zipp, Softride etc really add anything to my speed (now 18 mph or so), or would it just be a waste of money?? I have considered buying the frame only, and putting my old Dura Ace on it to save money.  Really appreciate some candid opinions – for a guy like me, will I see any speed gain at all from one of the newest aero bikes??  Thanks in advance.

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Stevek asks if new bike will improve times for older triathlete. I am 45 and have raced for years.  I have always pushed for faster times each year and have driven myself hard.  Recently,  my brother-in-law began triathlons and I have raced with him for support.  I discovered that, at a bit slower pace, I could actually enjoy the race itself, not just the feeling of accomplishment or the party later.  Remember that, at age 57, just the ability to do a triathlon places you in about the 98th percentile for fitness.  I train with a 57 year old partner at times and consider him a great role model.  Who cares if he has slowed a bit? About the bike: I agree that the improvement in time will be small.   However, any new equipment stimulates me to ride more and makes training more fun.  A whole new bike would probably be a great motivator!  In addition, I recently bought a Soft-Ride stem and am greatly impressed.   The damping of road shock allows my older neck to remain comfortable much longer.  My friends with Soft-Ride bikes say the same for the total ride.  It follows that a comfortable rider will perform better longer.  I would keep your components and buy the frame and stem.  Good luck! Marion

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| I’m a 57 year old male who would love to get a new bike (or maybe just a | new frame – 58cm). Right now I have an 8 year old Nishiki Carbon Fiber | frame with old style Scott bars, grip shift and Dura Ace. I race with an | old style Hed Disk. I have averaged as much as 21 mph on a flat course | (Milwaukee) but that was 6 years ago. Most courses I race on now are | hilly and that plus advancing age is slowing me down. This is something | of an emotional issue – practically speaking, would a Zipp, Softride etc | really add anything to my speed (now 18 mph or so), or would it just be | a waste of money?? Don’t expect any bike to add 5mph to your speeds. The most important factor, as had been stated here an in rec.bicycles,racing, is the motor on the bike; i.e., how fit/strong you are. However, the purchase of a Zipp or Softride can be a great training incentive — you certainly don’t want to go to a race with a $6000 bike and have someone a $500 department store bike pass you. So, while the Zipp or Softride won’t, by itself, get you that extra 3 or 5mph that you’re looking for it may "force" you to get out and train a little (or a lot) harder — thereby improving your fitness and speed. If you want a "Corvette" bike and can afford it, and realize it’s not going to make you Indurain, then go for it! | | I have considered buying the frame only, and putting my old Dura Ace on | it to save money.  Really appreciate some candid opinions – for a guy | like me, will I see any speed gain at all from one of the newest aero | bikes??  Thanks in advance.

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