Hello. Just how important are rest days?
VERY. If you continue a cycle of trying to train hard every day, you are just fooling yourself. If you are young, you can get away with it longer, but you’ll still become injury prone and start to fatigue. What happens is the body needs 36-48 hours to recovery from a hard workout. No matter how much of a studmuffin you think you are. You are getting yourself into a routine of what I call medium/medium workouts, instead of the preferred hard/easy regime. You’ll keep yourself in shape, but you’ll start to see race times decrease and nagging injuries increase. If you’re doing 80-85% every day, that’s classic medium/medium training. Hard enough to get tired, not hard enough to improve. Also, you’ve mentioned that you have a high resting HR, but how did you obtain your max? If you used the formula you could be WAY off, since, as an average, it’s only an estimate, not a reliable training tool. By rest, I don’t mean you can’t train every day. Just be SURE that your "off" days are easy work. Concentrate on really hammering the 2-3 HARD workouts a week, and the rest of the time train easy or alternate muscle groups. For example you could run hard on Tues, Thurs, and Sat, run easy and do upper body listing on Mon, Wed, and Sun, and maybe take Fri off. If you’re a triathlete rotate through your hard workouts for each event and do your big combinations on the weekend. To improve, you must get quality training, not just a whole bunch of training that seems hard. You have to look at what you’re trying to accomplish. If you’re shooting for a goal race or event organize your training for that and create a cycle of base, build, taper, and race. If all you want to do is stay in shape, then just about ANY training program will do that.
Hello. Just how important are rest days? I would like to train everyday. I have been training (cross training, actually) six days per week for the past three months and because I have been careful to vary my activities (which are all aerobic activities like cycling, running, nordic skiing, treadmill, etc.) and because I have been doing a lot of flexibility training I have not had any injuries.
Rest is the most important part of training – a cycle of stress and recovery. On hard days you stress the system. You force the muscles to work that bit harder, your heart and lungs are stressed to supply oxygen etc. They learn quickly, and attempt to build themselves up to cope next time a little bit better. If you continue training hard every day then you will find that you don’t recover, the muscles are unwilling to work and benefits are removed. You can become permamently fatigued and need excessive sleep/become irritable. You can detect this early with a test of your resting heartrate (just when you wake up). When you’re ill or fatigued it will be a little higher than usual. How you recover is up to you, and a lot is down to your level of fitness. I prefer to rest completely on most off days, once a week I’ll run easy. That’s because I prefer to train very hard on hard days, and my coach recommends quality training. Easy running/cycling/skiing/cow dung throwing is fine. But take a day off once in a while to recover your gains. You mention at the end that your resting heart rate seems high. It is probably naturally at that level. If you know you are not fatigued at the minute, and you’ve been trainig like this, then you probably are not. heart rate is determined by a combination of genetics and the fitness of the muscle itself – a powerful heart needs few strokes to get the necessary blood around the body compared to a weak heart. I don’t think you have a chonically elevated heart rate, so that shouldn’t be a worry. If you have kept the current routine up for 3 months and it is working for you then go for it. You don’t say how you vary your training (always recommended), but if you do then the only thing to watch out for is the speed at which you like to increase training and feel like you can, isn’t usually the speed at which your body can handle speed increases. Mike Wilcox
Sounds like you have a very balanced workout schedule already. Maybe you do not need any rest. Personally I think rest days are important for me. I need to race to be able to judge this. Only through racing can you see how your training and rest have impacted what you can do. If you do not race then you must do time trials of some sort on your own. If you do not race then you are never "under the gun" to perform and thus set up for either success or less than expected performances. Anyone can drag themselves through workouts on a regular basis without rest, but performance is another thing. I think rest days are important. I have many friends who train more and harder than myself, but they do not beat me when we race tris. I think it is due to my allowance of rest days. As triathletes we tend to judge both ourselves and others on the megamiles and awesome workouts we can make ourselves do. But "rest" is smart training too. I’d rather impress with race results than adding miles to fill in a logbook. Treemoss2
In order to improve your ability to run without accumulating Latic Acid and the ability to run faster without oxygen debt, you need to have some hard training days. The rest days allow you to recover enough to be able to have those hard training days. Your 80 to 85% MHR is good for endurance training but you need to have some runs at 85 to 95% MHR for latic threshold improvement and some at 90 to 98% for VO2 max improvement. I would recommend the book Daniel’s Running Formula. It will give you a good framework for the types of training you should do for specific types of races. Good luck, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. Just how important are rest days? I would like to train everyday. I have been training (cross training, actually) six days per week for the past three months and because I have been careful to vary my activities (which are all aerobic activities like cycling, running, nordic skiing, treadmill, etc.) and because I have been doing a lot of flexibility training I have not had any injuries. (BTW – I live near Crater Lake and I will probably be able to nordic ski there for another two or three months) I understand that rest days are of utmost importance when weight training (and I am not doing any weight training) but how important are rest days with respect to endurance sports? I have heard, "If you don’t allow sufficient recovery time you will start to lose." Lose what? Muscle mass? Over the past three months I have trained at 80-85% of my MHR for 60 -120 minutes per session followed by ten to twenty minutes of yoga/strecthing. The only thing that indicates that I am overtraining is that my morning resting heart rate remains relatively high – as it has my entire life. But what would I gain by training less besides a lower resting heart rate? Thank in advance, Michael 2300 clairmont drive, klamath falls, oregon, 97601 usa # 1.541.884.3278 all moanday, tearsday, wailsday, thumpsday, frightday, shatterday (j.j./FW) jocko homo = http://evol.org sonic youth = http://evol.org/music.html minutemen = http://evol.org/music8.html
– Bill Fasula http://www.netcom.com/~bfasula
I think this is age dependent. When I was in my early 20s I’d run twice a day plus do hikes, long bike rides, and lifting. One day a week would be lighter than the others. 20 years later one activity a day with a true day off more desirable.
I didn’t see the original post, but if the original question was "How important are rest days?", here’s my answer: VERY! -Rolf — "In rivers, the water that you touch is the last of which has passed and the first of that which comes: so with present time." — Leonardo Da Vinci IMC94-14:07 IMC95-11:59 IMC97-12:12 IMC98-14:02 IMNZ99-11:52
Hello. Just how important are rest days? I would like to train everyday. I have been training (cross training, actually) six days per week for the past three months and because I have been careful to vary my activities (which are all aerobic activities like cycling, running, nordic skiing, treadmill, etc.) and because I have been doing a lot of flexibility training I have not had any injuries. (BTW – I live near Crater Lake and I will probably be able to nordic ski there for another two or three months) I understand that rest days are of utmost importance when weight training (and I am not doing any weight training) but how important are rest days with respect to endurance sports? I have heard, "If you don’t allow sufficient recovery time you will start to lose." Lose what? Muscle mass? Over the past three months I have trained at 80-85% of my MHR for 60 -120 minutes per session followed by ten to twenty minutes of yoga/strecthing. The only thing that indicates that I am overtraining is that my morning resting heart rate remains relatively high – as it has my entire life. But what would I gain by training less besides a lower resting heart rate? Thank in advance, Michael 2300 clairmont drive, klamath falls, oregon, 97601 usa # 1.541.884.3278 all moanday, tearsday, wailsday, thumpsday, frightday, shatterday (j.j./FW) jocko homo = http://evol.org sonic youth = http://evol.org/music.html minutemen = http://evol.org/music8.html
I am curious to know how much it cost, in US dollars to travel to and compete in Ironman Hawaii. I believe it is a relatively expensive endevor and I would like to read some of your expereinces with the financial aspect of attending the race. It seems to be a logistical challenge as well as an athletic feat. What’s it like to get there? In advance, thank you for your replies. Jon
Jon, expensive is in the eye of the credit card holder. Rather than break it all down for you, you can count on ~5k for two people. I haven’t received all the charges yet but thats a good approximation. Includes travel from the east coast, accomodations (condo), goodies, gifts, meals and a partridge in a pear tree. It does not include that new bike that you’d probably want once you received a slot or all those wonderful upgrades you’ll want to do to your current machine should you blanch at the price of the new steed. Neither does it include all the additional rubber/tubes, shoes new clothes to look your best during IM week or the piece of very expensive jewelry that you promised your S.O. for putting up with a full summer of "sorry dear but I gotta train" routine. Is it worth it? Probably not, so if you acquire a slot let me have it I’m sure I can find some really dumb tigeek to take it off your hands. Cheers, Bernie Sher
WHAT very expensive jewelery that you promised your s.o.? Tri Guy’s S.O. (Unless there is another one elsewhere, in which case I’m Tri Guys X.S.O!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip…. Neither does it include all the additional rubber/tubes, shoes new clothes to look your best during IM week or the piece of very expensive jewelry that you promised your S.O. for putting up with a full summer of "sorry dear but I gotta train" routine.
BA=WHAT very expensive jewelery that you promised your s.o.? BA=Tri Guy’s S.O. (Unless there is another one elsewhere, in which case I’m =Tri Guys X.S.O!)
BA= Snip…. = Neither does it include all the additional = rubber/tubes, shoes new clothes to look your best during IM week or = the = piece of very expensive jewelry that you promised your S.O. for = putting = up with a full summer of "sorry dear but I gotta train" routine. = = Piece of very expensive jewellery? We should talk !! Don Devenney Ordinary Triathlete Extraordinary Jeweller — * SLMR 2.1a * IMC’95 13:11,IMC ‘96 14:43,IMC ‘97 13:13:13,IMC’98- FUN!
You might find this interesting… Announcing… PocketTimer The revolutionary new race timing solution you can fit in your pocket! PocketTimer ™ is an exciting new low-cost race timing solution for race directors, timing companies, running clubs, or anyone else putting on an event that needs timing. Based on the PalmPilot ™ handheld computer (personal organizer) from the U.S. Robotics division of 3Com, PocketTimer software provides an inexpensive, easy-to-use alternative to specialized timing equipment that can cost a thousand dollars or more. Just tap large on-screen buttons to record the bib # of an upcoming racer, then tap the Record button to capture the time along with the bib #. If the density of runners gets too high, just tap the Record button to record only the time, and fill in the bib# later from the torn-off bib tags. Later, review the results right on the PalmPilot, or upload them to your desktop computer. It couldn’t be easier! Here are some of the key features of PocketTimer: o Records times and bib #’s, or just times, for thousands of racers. You can easily enter 20-30 bib #’s per minute; if you record just the times (without bib #’s), you can capture 100 or more per minute. o Designed to be used by inexperienced personnel. Even a person who has never before touched a Palm Pilot can use the software to log race results with a maximum of accuracy and a minimum of training by tapping the on-screen buttons with the PalmPilot stylus. o Records times to either 0.01 second or 1.0 second precision. In 1.0 second mode, you can even turn off the power to the PalmPilot while the race is going on! o Can be used as a "split timer." Continuous display allows volunteers at mile markers to call out not only elapsed time but current pace as well. o Provides instant results! Even while the race is going on, you can review the recorded times. Scroll through all the times, or use QuickSearch ™ to look up the results for a particular racer instantaneously. Great for satisfying those curious racers before the results are posted! o Time offset – if PocketTimer can’t be started at exactly the time the race is started (for example, if the start and finish are at different places), you can synchronize the times recorded with PocketTimer with another time (recorded on a sports watch or stopwatch) by adding (or subtracting) a time offset from all recorded times. o Bib# editing – After the race (or even during), review the stored information against torn-off bib tags, and easily correct any errors (incorrect and missing numbers). o Transfers results to desktop computers (Windows or Macintosh) with the push of a button. Information recorded by PocketTimer - place, bib#, time, and pace – can then be merged with race results software on the desktop. o The "starting place" can be set, so you can use two (or more) PalmPilots for timing. Time the first batch of racers with one unit, then continue the timing with a second unit while the first is uploaded to a computer, or taken to the finish line announcer. Here are some additional benefits you get from using the PalmPilot for timing: o Low Cost. If you’re not one of the million people who already has a PalmPilot, you can purchase a new one for $250-300. And, of course, it’s a wonderful general purpose organizer, so in between races you can put it to good use (unlike that expensive timing equipment). o Needs no power. The PalmPilot can operate for a month using only two AAA batteries. Use PocketTimer to time anywhere on a course, with no need for electricity and no fear of using up your batteries. Record splits at remote aid stations, transitions in a triathlon, turnarounds – anywhere! o Weatherproof! While the PalmPilot itself is not waterproof, the unit is so small that it is easily enclosed in a small plastic bag. You can read the output and enter data right through the plastic! Field Tested PocketTimer has been field tested on races ranging in size from 50 to 500 racers, with great sucess. Andy Robles of J&A Productions, who run the South Bay and San Jose Triathlons and many other running, triathlon, and swimming events in the San Francisco Bay Area, says, "PocketTimer is awesome! We only needed one person to time our 5K run with 100% accuracy, with results available even while runners were still out on the course. This is a great idea!" About Stevens Creek Software PocketTimer was developed by Stevens Creek Software, publishers of The Athlete’s Diary software. The Athlete’s Diary, on the market for eight years, is the world’s most popular multisport training log software for Macintosh, Windows, and DOS. Stevens Creek Software also operates The Athlete’s Bookstore online, where you can order a wide variety of books on running, cycling, swimming, triathlon, and general fitness topics. Obtaining PocketTimer Single copies of PocketTimer are being sold for an introductory price of just $39.95. Multi-copy licenses, appropriate if you want to use multiple Pilots to time multiple aspects of a race (e.g., intermediate splits, multiple lanes) are available; inquire for pricing. Complete information about PocketTimer is available on the Stevens Creek Software web site: http://www.stevenscreek.com A trial version of the software which records a maximum of five different times is available on the website for downloading. Steve Patt Stevens Creek Software/The Athlete’s Bookstore http://www.stevenscreek.com
I am looking for a stop watch type timer that has a small printing device attached to it (about the size of a Canon Palm Printer Calculator for reference – seeing how every household in America seems to have at least one of those). I’ve seen one model made by Seiko; but, I can’t find a distributor. If you have knowledge of someone that stocks these please advise. Thanks.
I am looking for a stop watch type timer that has a small printing device attached to it (about the size of a Canon Palm Printe
Several supply catalogs inclouding Ranbow Racing and M&F Athletic sell the Seiko unit for around $300. We professionally time races and used the Seiko as a backup system. I have a used unit that’s about one year old and in perfect condition. We’ve purchased upgraded equipment and no longer need the Seiko unit. If you’re interested let me know. Cost $200.00 including shipping it to you. Includes new batteries, and a couple extra rolls of paper etc…We’ll also guarantee it is working perfect when you get it. We accept all major credit cards. Tom HI-TEK Racing/RUNNING AROUND CONNECTICUT http://members.aol.com/hitekrace HI-TEK Racing/RUNNING AROUND CONNECTICUT Newsletter Visit our web site at http://members.aol.com/hitekrace
there is a four day race in Minnesota in August. You do it with a partner. You have to ride a bike 200 miles first day 230 the second run 50 miles the third and canoe 50 miles the fourth day…has anyone out there heard of this or done it. If you have I would like info…I have a friend who wants to do this and I wondered what it is like rundonnrun
: there is a four day race in Minnesota in August. You do it with a : partner. You have to ride a bike 200 miles first day 230 the second run : 50 miles the third and canoe 50 miles the fourth day…has anyone out : there heard of this or done it. If you have I would like info…I have a : friend who wants to do this and I wondered what it is like Hope you got a GOOD seat for that bike!
<<Anyone now a good riding group in the Dearborn, MI riding area? One of the best Tri shops in the Great Lakes area is Bikesport, which is in Dearborn. Ask the owner, Tom Demerly, your question. You’ll get the answers you need. QRman
The Ann Arbor Triathlon club has weekly timetrials and brick workouts on Thursday nights. We also do an occational open water swim. Members also often get together at odd time for impromtue rides and runs. People come from as far away as Grosse Ile to our workouts. If your interested send me some email. – Doug Douglas P. Drob ! ’Your weaknesses will pull you Space Physics Research Laboratory ! down more than your strengths The University of Michigan ! will pull you up’ 2455 Hayward Ave ! Ann Arbor, MI 48109 ! - The Weakest Link Principle Phone 313-747-3450
The riding group in Dearborn, Mich. is on Wednesday evenings. We start at 6:30 and ride for a little over an hour. The ride is fast! and a tremendouse training session. The ride includes cyclists and triathletes. I am trying to remeber the name of the park we start at and for the life of me the name has slipped my mind. I will post it if anyone is interested when I get the name. Jay
Anyone now a good riding group in the Dearborn, MI riding area?
In my estimation there are two ways of dealing with drafters: 1) Beat them…in the Spud Triathlon last year in Indian Head, Maryland I came upon a peloton of four or five guys and became so upset that I decided I wanted to go over threshold and blow by them, which I did while uttering "Good thing there’s no drafting fellas!". One of the cheaters wanted to come along and did (and beat me in the bike leg) but I memorized his number and what he was wearing and went "hunting" in the run. At mile 4 out of 6.1 I passed him for good…it was a personal victory that day for me and I chalked one up for those of us who have been in this sport for 10 or more years and respect the code of honor in this INDIVIDUAL sport. 2) Two words…AIR HANKY!!!! It has its merits. See ya, Mick O’Connor, M.S.
I like to take a small slurp from my jetstream (so they stay completely unaware) and tilt my head up and give a little spurt into the air. Nothing like a Gatorade/slobber shower in your eye to slow you down. (Well I only say that because I can’t pee that high off the bike during a race. TriDork
I have a sure fire method! I ride REAL SLOW!! My buddies all think I’m just too slow, but the truth is I’m keeping everyone where I can see them.
I have a sure fire method! I ride REAL SLOW!! My buddies all think I’m just too slow, but the truth is I’m keeping everyone where I can see them.
Hee hee! I was just thinking the same thing. Not to mention the fact that I’m still getting used to these darn skinny wheels. I’m all over the road! Blocking? Not intentionally (did I mention I’m hard of hearing, too?) Drafting? I don’t want to injure my fellow competitors with my incompetence. Getting drafted? I have to admit I’d be flattered 
That timed passing thing might get me, though. Assuming I could find someone I wanted to pass. But assuming I do someday get good, I’d be pissed as hell if some nimrod starting sucking my wheel. You want to go faster? Train harder! Self-righteous newbie, The Chlorine Kid
I remember last fall reading some postive posts about the Great Floridian Ironman distance triathlon. Could someone who did that race please let me know again if my memory is correct? What is the usual daytime temperature at that time of year? Still in the 90s? Is the race well organized? Are there enough volunteers? Thanks. Cathy Corning
o Very well organized. (aid stations every 8 on bike, every 1 mi on run) o Very hilly on first 35 of bike and first 3 miles of run. (‘rolling’ hills my eye, Ferndale loop is grueling, and Sugerloaf is a good chance to remove the bananas from your stomach) o Warm last year (mile 90 on bike looked like battlefield with peoples scattered on both sides of road) o Great crowds (They cheered all night long, along the run course, and as you come back into town on bike). o All the glucose you could want at the end.
Can anyone suggest good places to post notices (on the net) of an upcoming sprint length Tri (other than here)? The race is the Magic City Kiwanis Triathlon to benefit Camp Smile-A-Mile, Birmingham, Alabama, August 12. Answers and inquiries to
: Can anyone suggest good places to post notices (on the net) of an : upcoming sprint length Tri (other than here)? : The race is the Magic City Kiwanis Triathlon to benefit Camp : Smile-A-Mile, Birmingham, Alabama, August 12. Answers and inquiries to For those of you interested in rankings in the Southeast, Magic City Kiwanis Triathlon is a 100 point race, and the RD does send in the results to the ranking committee! Charlie Crawford Chairman, Tri-Fed/Southeast Rankings Committee
:The reason women do so well in ultras is actually pretty simple. The :primary physical advantages that men have are size & strength, and those :don’t help you as much as the race length increases and the pacing :decreases. If you look at mens and womens world records in track or :swimming, and normalize for total finish time (i.e. examine pace only) :you’ll find that as the distance increases the numbers approach each 
ther asymptotically. I’ve now seen this assertion made so often I think its become part of running folklore. However, for the track records, it is not true. Indeed it is only with the advent of the Chinese distance runners that the *opposite* is no longer true (i.e. FloJo’s times were a smaller percentage of Carl Lewis’s than their 10k equivalents). This led me to assert that the Chineses athlete were as drug-free as FloJo, which as I recall caused an amusing flamewar. Of course, since both speeds tend to zero eventually, the *arithmetic* difference between them tends to zero, but that is obviously the wrong statistic to look at. Graeme
The reason women do so well in ultras is actually pretty simple. The primary physical advantages that men have are size & strength, and those don’t help you as much as the race length increases and the pacing decreases. If you look at mens and womens world records in track or swimming, and normalize for total finish time (i.e. examine pace only) you’ll find that as the distance increases the numbers approach each other asymptotically. It has been suggested, in fact, that the only reason men still generally win the longest races is that more men participate in the sports, i.e. men draw from a larger gene pool. — Ed
| The reason women do so well in ultras is actually pretty simple. The | primary physical advantages that men have are size & strength, and those | don’t help you as much as the race length increases and the pacing | decreases. If you look at mens and womens world records in track or | swimming… Well, swimming and bike/triathlon have a law-of-physics that *any* talent advantage is narrowed down as air/water resistance rises worse than proportionally by speed. And in the case of swimming there have been theories for many years that better flotation is helpful thus lower body density thus any gender advantage might tend to reverse. I cannot recall which gender currently owns the record for English Channel swims but do recall that Donna Devarona (spelling?) of ABC Sports was the first person in history to perform some particular ultra-swim. WRT to size and strength, I’ll report a personal anecdote: being an ultra wannabe, I tagged along in an ultra and some men groused jealously over the best woman (Sue Olsen) having so little weight to carry. Anyway, I am trying to figure out whether ultras naturally reduce or eliminate or reverse the gender advantage that appears in shorter runs. The reason I brought up statistics is that in large marathons we usually see that just a few percent of the men are able to outrun the first woman, so if the order of magnitude gets down to a population of 100 then the expected number of male leaders is already just a few so a "medalist" finish by a woman is expectable even if the short-distance gender advantage remains in effect, and only a few people need to have a bad day for a female overall-win to occur. Matt Mahoney has reported that the WS100 population is a half-order-of-mag larger than what I was thinking, so my statistical logic is probably not so relevant. — Gordon K. Chace voice (612) 482-6524 OpenVision Technologies, Inc. fax (612) 482-2383 RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
Well, the simplest explanation for high placements (and occasional wins) by women would be that ultras have small enough participation that
I read the rest of your text, but I totally disagree with this statement. I lifeguard for the UC Berkeley pool system and this Spring I was able to see why Ann Trason usually places in first or second overall. She would show up to aqua-jog and when I left 2.5 hrs later she would still be hammering along in a 30 foot long diving well (BORING!!!), but she has the tenacity to stick with it. I think the statistical deviations favor Ann more in a willpower sense than a few women in ultra sense. I just wanted to give credit to someone who has earned some respect. My $0.02. RLR
I think the concept of small samples makes sense for some of the smaller races where there are only 20-50 runners. In Ann’s Trason’s case her winning of a quicksilver (a fairly large field) and her performance in Western States (one of the best fields year in and year out in ultras) show that she is something special. Also in an ultra the endurance takes precedence to some degree over the strength. This is shown by the relative mix in body types of the top ultra runners. Your see the ‘typical’ marathon types (skinny scrawny types) but you also see more substantial people doing well. I was up just wandering aroud at western states this year and ann was awesome. She was about 12th or so at 25 miles and slowly moved up to second throughout the day. Tim was the only one that showed the same consistency and thus he won… It was interesting that Tim outran his pacer after 20 miles (from 62 to 82). The top ultra people are a differant species or something. jim pepin
Men: Tim Tweitmeyer, Auburn CA 16:51:01 Joe Schlereth, Fresno CA 17:51:06 Dave Scott, Freemont CA 18:19:53
Is this Dave Scott, the triathlete? Women: Ann Trason, Kensington CA 17:37:51
2nd overall, not bad! #include "disclaimer.h" |____|
Men: Tim Tweitmeyer, Auburn CA 16:51:01 Joe Schlereth, Fresno CA 17:51:06 Dave Scott, Freemont CA 18:19:53 Is this Dave Scott, the triathlete?
No. Women: Ann Trason, Kensington CA 17:37:51 2nd overall, not bad!
Ann is truly remarkable. She routinely places top 5 *overall* in ultras. Proof(?) that in endurance (i.e. "non-power") sports women can truly complete on a level playing field with men. — LSC (aka Larry Chapman) (303) 229-3117
Men: Tim Tweitmeyer, Auburn CA 16:51:01 Joe Schlereth, Fresno CA 17:51:06 Dave Scott, Freemont CA 18:19:53 Is this Dave Scott, the triathlete?
No, Dave Scott was at the Nice Triathlon last weekend. Thanks to #include "disclaimer.h" |____|
The Dave Scott in the Western States 100 is an Ultra Runner who lives in Fremont Ca. I know him quite well. I also paced him thru 18 miles (from 62 to 80) in the WS 100. His younger brother come in 7th place for the second year in a row. This Dave Scott holds 3-4 course records for 50K to 50M distances. The 2nd place man (Joe S.), who was 3rd overall, is a Masters runner (40+). Tim Tweitmeyer has now won this race twice. The two years he has won it have been when Tom Johnson (3 time winner) has not compeated. Ann T., who has now finished 3rd, 3rd, and this year 2nd. makes the race exciting because all the top male runners are always wondering how far back she is. If you ever have the chance, go up the WS 100 and either volunteer at an aid station or volunteer to help pace one of the runners. Many runners are from out of town and do not know anyone. You can sign up to pace a runner at mile 62 in Foresthill. Runners are allowed to have pacers from mile 62 to the finish in Auburn. Happy Trails….. Matt Mahoney : Men: : Tim Tweitmeyer, Auburn CA 16:51:01 : Joe Schlereth, Fresno CA 17:51:06 : Dave Scott, Freemont CA 18:19:53 : Is this Dave Scott, the triathlete? : Women: : Ann Trason, Kensington CA 17:37:51 : 2nd overall, not bad! : #include "disclaimer.h" |____|
| Ann Trason, Kensington CA 17:37:51 | | 2nd overall, not bad! | | Ann is truly remarkable. She routinely places top 5 *overall* in | ultras. Proof(?) that in endurance (i.e. "non-power") sports women | can truly complete on a level playing field with men. Well, the simplest explanation for high placements (and occasional wins) by women would be that ultras have small enough participation that statistical fluctuations have a reasonable chance to occur, versus standard marathons with thousands of participants. Certainly we see that world-record performances from 100 meters thru 42,195 meters indicate a gender advantage of 10 to 12 percentage points by measure of speed, and large marathons mixing elites with ordinaries show a non-overlapping population of 1 to 2 percent. I have heard a theory-beyond-statistics which is that female biochemistry evolved so as to provide a better chance to survive when conditions are lethal (weather, starvation, whatever). I cannot recall whether the author of this theory had any science to back it up, or just made an assertion, thus I mention it only to see if any other rec.runners know it better. Here in Minnesota we have Sue Olsen who has won at least one 24 hour race (anybody got fresh results for last weekend’s FANS event?) and has placed second at least one other time. And in another Minnesota event we once had an out-of-state visitor win 100K outright as a *master’s* female. — Gordon K. Chace voice (612) 482-6524 OpenVision Technologies, Inc. fax (612) 482-2383 RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
Well, the simplest explanation for high placements (and occasional wins) by women would be that ultras have small enough participation …
This is hard to explain at Western States, which had 375 starters, and 249 finishers (86 under 24 hours). Furthermore, Western States has the strictest qualifying standards of any 100 mile race, so she was competing against a strong field (as you can see by the high finishing rate). The qualifying standards for WS100 varies by age group and length of the qualifying race, which must be at least 50 miles. For men under 40 (me), it’s 50 miles in 9 hours, vs. 12 hours for most 100’s. #include "disclaimer.h" |____|
- On the subject of running on a treadmill: – I’m a not very experienced runner, that started to train for a 10K – run a couple of weeks ago. The race is december 31 and I want to – finish in about 44 minutes. I do all my training (about 30 to 40 – miles a week) on a treadmill. Just before I started to train more – seriously, I did a 10K run on the treadmill in 46.06 min. (about 5 – weeks ago). – Last week I participated in a relay-olympic-distance-triathlon, and – ran 10K (outdoors) in 42 minutes, a time I cannot (yet) achieve on – the treadmill. – So, on the treadmill I have great difficulty to even get close to 45 – minutes,but – the 10K outdoors in 42 minutes wasn’t a real problem and already a – lot faster than I had planned for the race in december. – In my opinion the treadmill training I do really helps me in – performing outdoors – Maybe the lack of fresh air while running inside, results in an extra – boost of oxygen while running outdoors and thus performing a lot – better. – Opinions anyone? – – Greetings, – – Frank R. Two quick opinions for you: 1. The adrenalin that comes from a race situation will automatically improve your time. A pace which feels impossible to bear in a normal training run (not including interval training) feels a lot easier during a race. It might have something to do with being able to focus on passing the person immediately in front of you. 2. Treadmills don’t accurately reflect the effort of running. I run on a treadmill once or twice a week, usually as recovery runs, and find the effort to keep a specific pace somewhat more difficult than road running. Personally, I think it’s the result of a slightly different running style the treadmill requires, and a shorter stride length. Just my two cents worth. Tim Wainwright Toronto, Canada (where it’s already getting too cold to run in t-shirts)
[partly deleted] Last week I participated in a relay-olympic-distance-triathlon, and ran 10K (outdoors) in 42 minutes, a time I cannot (yet) achieve on the treadmill. The difference is known as RACE. Due to the mental excitement, the people running with you, the spectators on the street, you will always be faster than in training. Try a training 10k on a track for comparison. Wolfgang
… | Last week I participated in a relay-olympic-distance-triathlon, and ran 10K | (outdoors) in 42 minutes, a time I cannot (yet) achieve on the treadmill. I have experienced major distance-measuring errors in triathlons. It is not easy to lay out a course which has an appropriate body of water with beach, parking very close by for all the bikes, and the right distances available on nearby roadways for both bike and run with the finish occuring at an appropriate area for recovery, spectators, scorekeeping, and homeward transportation. On the books, my 10K PR was supposedly set at the conclusion of a 1.5/40/10 triathon in 85 degrees (Fahrenheit) and extreme humidity with sunlight just a few weeks after I had run a marathon. Nooooooo waaaaay!!! They had to be almost a kilometer short. If an event is advertised with slightly non-standard distances, for example 1.3/36/9.5, then I would believe them. If it is advertised as 1.5/40/10, then I would ask the organizers if that is specific or just an advertising generality. — Gordon K. Chace voice (612) 482-6524 OpenVision Technologies, Inc. fax (612) 482-2697 RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
On the subject of running on a treadmill: I’m a not very experienced runner, that started to train for a 10K run a couple of weeks ago. The race is december 31 and I want to finish in about 44 minutes. I do all my training (about 30 to 40 miles a week) on a treadmill. Just before I started to train more seriously, I did a 10K run on the treadmill in 46.06 min. (about 5 weeks ago). Last week I participated in a relay-olympic-distance-triathlon, and ran 10K (outdoors) in 42 minutes, a time I cannot (yet) achieve on the treadmill. So, on the treadmill I have great difficulty to even get close to 45 minutes,but the 10K outdoors in 42 minutes wasn’t a real problem and already a lot faster than I had planned for the race in december. In my opinion the treadmill training I do really helps me in performing outdoors Maybe the lack of fresh air while running inside, results in an extra boost of oxygen while running outdoors and thus performing a lot better. Opinions anyone? Greetings, Frank R. | "One step beyond…." | Frank Rutten | | o | Fabriekstraat 28 | | __o < | 5038 EN Tilburg | | ~~–^o_~~ _ <_ _/ | The Netherlands | | (_)/(_) / | Phone:+31-13-438090|
On the subject of running on a treadmill:
[stuff deleted] So, on the treadmill I have great difficulty to even get close to 45 minutes,but the 10K outdoors in 42 minutes wasn’t a real problem and already a lot faster than I had planned for the race in december. In my opinion the treadmill training I do really helps me in performing outdoors Maybe the lack of fresh air while running inside, results in an extra boost of oxygen while running outdoors and thus performing a lot better.
I too run slower on the treadmill. I think the difference is either a mental thing about not actually getting anywhere or just sheer boredom (with or without the TV). In fact, I have often described the treadmill run as brutal. But, if its VERY cold or snowy (and this happens here) I would rather be on the treadmill. Karl
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the subject of running on a treadmill: I’m a not very experienced runner, that started to train for a 10K run a couple of weeks ago. The race is december 31 and I want to finish in about 44 minutes. I do all my training (about 30 to 40 miles a week) on a treadmill. Just before I started to train more seriously, I did a 10K run on the treadmill in 46.06 min. (about 5 weeks ago). Last week I participated in a relay-olympic-distance-triathlon, and ran 10K (outdoors) in 42 minutes, a time I cannot (yet) achieve on the treadmill. So, on the treadmill I have great difficulty to even get close to 45 minutes,but the 10K outdoors in 42 minutes wasn’t a real problem and already a lot faster than I had planned for the race in december. In my opinion the treadmill training I do really helps me in performing outdoors Maybe the lack of fresh air while running inside, results in an extra boost of oxygen while running outdoors and thus performing a lot better. Opinions anyone?
I guess you need to calibrate your measuring instruments. Bill