Question:

I am concentrating on trying to learn to run at higher speed (after being a lifelong jogger), and I am making some progress. The benchmark distance that I usually run in about 14 minutes, I ran today in just 11:24. (this distance is exactly half of my small run). The heart rate was 144, which is about 77% of MHR.  It corresponds to breathing every 6 steps (3 steps in, 3 steps out). Whenever I have more time to run, I will try to run twice that and include some hills. On weekend, maybe 3x that (which took me 1:35 to run once) What I would like is to learn, now, to run long distances at approximately this speed without becoming tired too quickly.

If you’re really at 77% MHR and maintaining 3-3 breathing, you can probably hold that pace for a much longer distance. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

I am concentrating on trying to learn to run at higher speed (after being a lifelong jogger), and I am making some progress. The benchmark distance that I usually run in about 14 minutes, I ran today in just 11:24. (this distance is exactly half of my small run). The heart rate was 144, which is about 77% of MHR.  It corresponds to breathing every 6 steps (3 steps in, 3 steps out). Whenever I have more time to run, I will try to run twice that and include some hills. On weekend, maybe 3x that (which took me 1:35 to run once) What I would like is to learn, now, to run long distances at approximately this speed without becoming tired too quickly. By the way, I am reading Bob Glover’s running book right now…

So how’s it feel to run at that pace?  It’s not a good idea to try to run faster on all your runs, but only once a week or so at first.  Then, slowly your pace on other runs will increase as you get more used to it, and the HR you can sustain daily will rise a bit over time.  After you get used to "77%" range, you can bump up your weekly fast run to 80-85%.  Until a solid running base is established, more formal speedwork is overkill. – Tony

Response:

I am concentrating on trying to learn to run at higher speed (after being a lifelong jogger), and I am making some progress. The benchmark distance that I usually run in about 14 minutes, I ran today in just 11:24. (this distance is exactly half of my small run). The heart rate was 144, which is about 77% of MHR.  It corresponds to breathing every 6 steps (3 steps in, 3 steps out). Whenever I have more time to run, I will try to run twice that and include some hills. On weekend, maybe 3x that (which took me 1:35 to run once) What I would like is to learn, now, to run long distances at approximately this speed without becoming tired too quickly. By the way, I am reading Bob Glover’s running book right now…

I don’t have access to the Glover books right now but wouldn’t 77% MHR and 3/3 breathing be an easy run?

Response:

What has really helped increase my pace and endurance is biking.  I’ve been biking afeter I run for about an hour in the gym doing hill intervals. Within 2 weeks I noticed a huge difference.  I’ve been doing this and I look forward to my runs everyday now.

Response:

Leafing through rec.running, I read Ignoramus19386’s message of 07 Oct 2004: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am concentrating on trying to learn to run at higher speed (after being a lifelong jogger), and I am making some progress. The benchmark distance that I usually run in about 14 minutes, I ran today in just 11:24. (this distance is exactly half of my small run). The heart rate was 144, which is about 77% of MHR.  It corresponds to breathing every 6 steps (3 steps in, 3 steps out). Whenever I have more time to run, I will try to run twice that and include some hills. On weekend, maybe 3x that (which took me 1:35 to run once) What I would like is to learn, now, to run long distances at approximately this speed without becoming tired too quickly. By the way, I am reading Bob Glover’s running book right now… So how’s it feel to run at that pace? It’s okay, I guess, but it requires me to actually remember not to slow down, to be alert. Unlike jogging, which is a pace when Irun while my mind drifts off. I felt quite good afterwards. It’s not a good idea to try to run faster on all your runs, but only once a week or so at first. That’s what Bob Glover’s book say about "tempo runs" also. My own feeling is that my running speed, 77% MHR and 3-3 breathing, is not quite as fast as those tempo runs. It is more of a reflection that I was very slow before. So, I will try to run most of the time at this speed, and see where it leads.

How did you test your max heart rate? If it’s not accurate, you can throw all these numbers out the window. If you think you know your MHR, then 77% would indeed be a good training effort. Not so easy that it doesn’t work your cardiovascular system and not so hard that you can’t sustain it. A tempo run effort would be slightly higher, in the 85 – 90% MHR range. You could talk at this effort, but not very easily. Also, your heart rate is greatly effected by conditions such as heat, wind, hills, and terrain. <75% is my easy run effort, although I don’t strictly adhere to this. 77% would fall into my long run effort (73 – 83% MHR). Recovery: <75% MHR Long Runs: 73 – 83% MHR Aerobic: 80 – 84% MHR Marathon Pace: ~84% Avg MHR (allowing for cardiac drift) Lactate Threshold: 85 – 90% MHR VO2 Max: 94 – 98% MHR Glover’s range is pretty wide. Between 70 and 85% of MHR he calls your "training heart rate." Below 70% MHR does not provide much cardiovascular conditioning. Above 85% will be too stressful for you to sustain the effort long enough to provide cardiovascular conditioning. You can also forget about heart rates and just go by the "talk" test. If you can talk comfortably but you are running fast enough to perspire, then you are at ~70% MHR. if you can talk, but not easily, you are at ~ 85% MHR. If you are out of breath, straining and unable to talk, you are over 85%. Phil M. — "If you feel bad at 10 miles, you’re in trouble.  If you feel bad at 20 miles, you’re normal. If you don’t feel bad at 26 miles, you’re abnormal."  -Rob de Castella

Response:

Leafing through rec.running, I read Ignoramus19386’s message of 07 Oct 2004: By the way, I am reading Bob Glover’s running book right now…

Which one? The info I posted is from "The New Competitive Runner’s Handbook." How did you test your max heart rate? If it’s not accurate, you can throw all these numbers out the window. Hm, good question. I used formula     MHR = 220-age in years

Performance-based MHR tests are much more accurate. Here’s one that I’ve done that seems to be the most accurate: Warm up thoroughly. Run three high-intensity 600-meter repeats up a moderate hill, jogging back down right away after each one. If you run these 600s all out, your heart rate should be within two to three beats of maximum by the end of the third repeat. For you, the hardest part of this test is finding a 600 meter hill in Illinois. your heart rate is greatly effected by conditions such as heat, wind, hills, and terrain. It was early morning, mostly flat, 50F, no wind.

Those conditions are good. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<75% is my easy run effort, although I don’t strictly adhere to this. 77% would fall into my long run effort (73 – 83% MHR). Recovery: <75% MHR Long Runs: 73 – 83% MHR Aerobic: 80 – 84% MHR Marathon Pace: ~84% Avg MHR (allowing for cardiac drift) Lactate Threshold: 85 – 90% MHR VO2 Max: 94 – 98% MHR Thanks, I will save this info. It seems that 77% is at least in the vicinity of a "sweet spot" of speed that is sufficient to accomplish my goal (sub 4 hour marathon), but slow enough to be easily sustainable with adequate training. Do your numbers imply that I would not be even close to lactate threshold at this speed?

If I understand your question, then yes. However, my numbers are not from Glover’s book, they are from Pete Pfitzinger’s book. He puts more emphasis on specific training zones, thereby breaking down Glover’s "training range" into other zones. So in between recovery and threshold pace are long run pace, aerobic pace, and marathon pace. If you’re training with a marathon in mind, then most of your paces should be at a base building pace, putting in miles and increasing your weekly mileage and weekly long run. The pace you’re running at now seems to be a good pace based on MHR. I wouldn’t go any faster. Even seasoned marathoners do a lot of their miles at that pace. You will be surprised at how much faster you’ll get by simply running at an easy pace. This is especially true for new runners and runners just starting to increase their weekly mileage. So even if you’ve been jogging   for the past 20 years, adding more miles and weekly long runs will make you a faster runner. That’s what you should be focusing on more than doing extensive speed work. If you want to play around with speed work, then I would not go any faster than a tempo run for 15 – 20 minutes once every one or two weeks. Phil M. — "If you feel bad at 10 miles, you’re in trouble.  If you feel bad at 20 miles, you’re normal. If you don’t feel bad at 26 miles, you’re abnormal."  -Rob de Castella

Response:

Leafing through rec.running, I read Ignoramus19386’s message of 07 Oct 2004: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I understand your question, then yes. However, my numbers are not from Glover’s book, they are from Pete Pfitzinger’s book. He puts more emphasis on specific training zones, thereby breaking down Glover’s "training range" into other zones. So in between recovery and threshold pace are long run pace, aerobic pace, and marathon pace. If you’re training with a marathon in mind, then most of your paces should be at a base building pace, putting in miles and increasing your weekly mileage and weekly long run. The pace you’re running at now seems to be a good pace based on MHR. I wouldn’t go any faster. Even seasoned marathoners do a lot of their miles at that pace. I am glad that I find myself in complete agreement with the above. This would be my training speed and increasing mileage AT THAT SPEED will be my goal, for now.

Then I think you’re on the right track. You will be surprised at how much faster you’ll get by simply running at an easy pace. This is especially true for new runners and runners just starting to increase their weekly mileage. So even if you’ve been jogging for the past 20 years, adding more miles and weekly long runs will make you a faster runner. That’s what you should be focusing on more than doing extensive speed work. If you want to play around with speed work, then I would not go any faster than a tempo run for 15 – 20 minutes once every one or two weeks. I think that for now, I won’t even bother with trying to run faster, especially since it is supposed to be hard on LC.

If you’re using a HRM, you will notice over time that your HR for a given pace will decrease and/or your pace for a given HR will increase. Phil M.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip< Recovery: <75% MHR Long Runs: 73 – 83% MHR Aerobic: 80 – 84% MHR Marathon Pace: ~84% Avg MHR (allowing for cardiac drift) Lactate Threshold: 85 – 90% MHR VO2 Max: 94 – 98% MHR Thanks, I will save this info. It seems that 77% is at least in the vicinity of a "sweet spot" of speed that is sufficient to accomplish my goal (sub 4 hour marathon), but slow enough to be easily sustainable with adequate training. Do your numbers imply that I would not be even close to lactate threshold at this speed?

Lactate threshold is quite variable both in a given individual and among individuals.  For some individuals, LT can be as high as 95% when they’re in peak form but under 85% in the off-season. In athletes just beginning their training it can be 80% of MHR or less. For example, my LT is currently is about 90% MHR, while it’s been as high as 94% when I’ve trained for more speed at shorter distances.  When I started ramping up my running this Spring, my LT was about 82% of MHR. LT is much more important than MHR for setting training efforts because your race pace is directly linked not to MHR, but to LT.  For example, it’s known that a marathon can be run at about 96% of LT, a 10k at 100-103% of LT depending on your time, and a 5k at upwards of 105% of LT.  So the improvement of LT directly affects your potential race pace, as does it limit your ability to train at a certain level and readily recover.  Note that using a HRM to determine or read LT is imperfect for all the reasons a HRM is imperfect, but when one is well-rested under similar weather conditions, HR can be used to as a measurement of LT instead a blood-lactate testing kit. – Tony

Response:

Learn to breathe!  Elite runners are breathing 3 to 4 steps per breath cycle at racing pace.  Are you holding yourself back by your breathing? I think you have potential to run noticably faster if you can get into better shape.  If your legs get strong enough to demand more oxygen, you’ll find yourself breathing harder, and running faster. I reach my MHR by breathing 1 step in, 1 step out.  85% with 2 in/1 out, and 60-65% with 3 in/3 out. If you get in shape to do tempo runs at 3 steps per breath cycle, you’re getting somewhere… —  Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am concentrating on trying to learn to run at higher speed (after being a lifelong jogger), and I am making some progress. The benchmark distance that I usually run in about 14 minutes, I ran today in just 11:24. (this distance is exactly half of my small run). The heart rate was 144, which is about 77% of MHR.  It corresponds to breathing every 6 steps (3 steps in, 3 steps out). Whenever I have more time to run, I will try to run twice that and include some hills. On weekend, maybe 3x that (which took me 1:35 to run once) What I would like is to learn, now, to run long distances at approximately this speed without becoming tired too quickly. By the way, I am reading Bob Glover’s running book right now… i

Response:

Learn to breathe!  Elite runners are breathing 3 to 4 steps per breath cycle at racing pace.  

Yes, *at racing pace*. And the 3 is usually only in the final stretch. Are you holding yourself back by your breathing?

His breathing is similar to what I use in training. I reach my MHR by breathing 1 step in, 1 step out.  

What’s your stride rate like when you adopt this breathing pattern ? It’s nearly impossible to take deep breaths like this at a fast stride rate. 85% with 2 in/1 out, and

I only do 2-1 at the end of a race or a tough workout. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Learn to breathe!  Elite runners are breathing 3 to 4 steps per breath cycle at racing pace. Yes, *at racing pace*. And the 3 is usually only in the final stretch.

There is some variability here.  Although I ran a 50k a few weeks ago, and they had a 30k which started a bit later.  I got to see and hear the lead runner of the 30k (a 30minute 10k guy) as he came up from behind.  We were both charging uphill, and he was in 3-step;  when I was fast, I switched to 3 step in 5k’s and 10k’s fairly early in the race.  Some fast guys can keep 4-step while racing shorter distances, but in my experience, they were exceptions. Are you holding yourself back by your breathing? His breathing is similar to what I use in training.

My uneducated guess is that you have some untapped potential if 6-step is 75% mhr for you. I reach my MHR by breathing 1 step in, 1 step out. What’s your stride rate like when you adopt this breathing pattern ? It’s nearly impossible to take deep breaths like this at a fast stride rate.

I have to be charging uphill to get my fastest HR.  So my stride rate is probably only 175 or so. 85% with 2 in/1 out, and I only do 2-1 at the end of a race or a tough workout.

…just goes to show that you can go faster…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip< Recovery: <75% MHR Long Runs: 73 – 83% MHR Aerobic: 80 – 84% MHR Marathon Pace: ~84% Avg MHR (allowing for cardiac drift) Lactate Threshold: 85 – 90% MHR VO2 Max: 94 – 98% MHR Thanks, I will save this info. It seems that 77% is at least in the vicinity of a "sweet spot" of speed that is sufficient to accomplish my goal (sub 4 hour marathon), but slow enough to be easily sustainable with adequate training. Do your numbers imply that I would not be even close to lactate threshold at this speed? Lactate threshold is quite variable both in a given individual and among individuals.  For some individuals, LT can be as high as 95% when they’re in peak form but under 85% in the off-season. In athletes just beginning their training it can be 80% of MHR or less. For example, my LT is currently is about 90% MHR, while it’s been as high as 94% when I’ve trained for more speed at shorter distances.  When I started ramping up my running this Spring, my LT was about 82% of MHR. Sorry if I am missing something big, or something that Ishould know, but how do you measure your LT?

The lactate threshold is not a single number, but rather it’s an area of effort where the pace becomes too high for the energy supply system to work entirely aerobically.  Lactic acid starts to accumulate in this area faster than the body can clear it and as you move higher into this threshold area you will have to slow down soon. Honestly I don’t know how someone training on low-carb could even reach this area because fats require oxygen to supply energy.  Burning glycogen as fuel can be either aerobic or anerobic, depending on the pace.  In Stu Mittleman’s book he has one day a week to exercise in the "sugar burning zone", which would correspond to the LT area. Probably the most practical way for an average person to measure their LTHR is to do a race as fast as they can (fueled with both fats and sugar) and scale their average HR from that race to LT (using similar %s to the ones I gave before).  A person can run at close to LT for about an hour, thus for many a 10 mile race done to the best of one’s ability would tell them their LTHR.  For slower runners it would be a 10k.  Personally when I haven’t done a short race, I use hard tempo runs or intervals to guestimate my LT, which isn’t as precise as other methods, but with experience one can get a pretty close estimate where one’s LT area is.  Using a tempo run of 25 mins is less hard than race, so you’d multiply by 105 to 110% to get your LT estimate, depending on your run intensity. More accurate methods are to find your LT pace and/or HR on a track and a blood-lactate measuring device using methods laid out in various books designed to guide you through that, or to use conconi’s test on a track to determine LTHR.  It’s not as easy to determine as MaxHR but is a better measure of fitness and what your training zones should be. Methods for determining LT: http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/exercisephysiology/a/aa091301a.htm HR Zones based on LT: http://www.3-fitness.com/triathlon/zones.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LT is much more important than MHR for setting training efforts because your race pace is directly linked not to MHR, but to LT.  For example, it’s known that a marathon can be run at about 96% of LT, a 10k at 100-103% of LT depending on your time, and a 5k at upwards of 105% of LT.  So the improvement of LT directly affects your potential race pace, as does it limit your ability to train at a certain level and readily recover.  Note that using a HRM to determine or read LT is imperfect for all the reasons a HRM is imperfect, but when one is well-rested under similar weather conditions, HR can be used to as a measurement of LT instead a blood-lactate testing kit. Well, based on some WAG, I am not in a good enough shape to run a marathon at 96% of LT, and it also probably is an unpleasant experience to run so close. It is not my goal. If I can do a sub 4 hour marathon and feel okay afterwards, I will be fine.

Yes, your situation is unique.  If you really have no glycogen then you technically should never be able to run above or even close to the LT area, even for a sprint distance.  In fact your fast-twitch muscles should scarcely work at all. – Tony

Response:

I only do 2-1 at the end of a race or a tough workout. …just goes to show that you can go faster…

I wonder if this is partly determined by ones VO2 max ? I mean, when you did the measurements, you had exceptionally high VO2 max and relatively poor running economy, which basically means you’re a "gas guzzler", so maybe that explains why you breathe fairly quickly even at a low relative intensity. I’ve noticed one of my training partners used a very low breathing rate when he was starting out (3-3 for the bulk of a speed workout) and this has been picking up as he’s been training. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Sorry if I am missing something big, or something that Ishould know, but how do you measure your LT? The lactate threshold is not a single number, but rather it’s an area of effort where the pace becomes too high for the energy supply system to work entirely aerobically.  Lactic acid starts to accumulate in this area faster than the body can clear it and as you move higher into this threshold area you will have to slow down soon. Makes sense. I want to train my fat oxidation system, so, if I never reach LT, too bad.

You need to improve your LT for optimal marathon performance too. Read the chapter on "tempo training" in Glover’s book. I am also training to do pushups, right now I am up to 52. I no longer experience muscle pain as I get to the end of the set, just fatigue (inability to perform). I interpret this as being able to remove LA from muscles quickly enough, and running out of glycogen.

I doubt it. Are you out of breath when doing pushups in the same way as you would be after a very hard run ? Oxygen transport is not usually a limiting factor for pushups. Honestly I don’t know how someone training on low-carb could even reach this area because fats require oxygen to supply energy.  Burning glycogen as fuel can be either aerobic or anerobic, depending on the pace.  In Stu Mittleman’s book he has one day a week to exercise in the "sugar burning zone", which would correspond to the LT area. Which is fine with me, I want to run on my "diesel fuel".

To get good at running on your "diesel fuel", you need to run at the fastest pace at which your body can stay in "diesel mode". That pace has a name — it’s called your "lactate threshold", or "LT". close estimate where one’s LT area is.  Using a tempo run of 25 mins is less hard than race, so you’d multiply by 105 to 110% to get your LT estimate, depending on your run intensity. What if I am poorly conditioned so that something else limits my speed?

Besides inadequate nutrition, I’m not sure what else would limit your speed. If you’re doing a cool weather race, heat and hydration shouldn’t be limiting factors. Thanks. I, frankly, am becoming convinced that I cannot reach my LT and in any case it is not, yet, a practical issue.

Thank you. I got a good laugh out of that. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Snip< HR Zones based on LT: http://www.3-fitness.com/triathlon/zones.htm

looking closer at the zones laid out on that site they look bogus to me. Vo2max zones are always above LT zones.  I had another site but can’t find it now…

Response:

I only do 2-1 at the end of a race or a tough workout. …just goes to show that you can go faster… I wonder if this is partly determined by ones VO2 max ?

Interesting — it would seem that the high vo2 max guys have to breathe harder to get that extra output. Higher redline, in other words.  They might be working just as hard (breathing as hard) as you running 7:00/mile, but while you might hit LT at 5:40, they can keep revving up the motor before they hit their redline at 5:00. It would also follow that in general, when you improve your vo2 max, you can comfortably run at a higher breathing rate. I mean, when you did the measurements, you had exceptionally high VO2 max and relatively poor running economy, which basically means you’re a "gas guzzler", so maybe that explains why you breathe fairly quickly even at a low relative intensity.

I was about 18% less efficient than my world-class brethren with the same vo2 max of 76 (which predicts a 2:14 marathon).  I would guess about 10% less efficient than the average competitor. Still, the fast guys I used to run with raced 3 step a lot of the time. I’ve noticed one of my training partners used a very low breathing rate when he was starting out (3-3 for the bulk of a speed workout) and this has been picking up as he’s been training.

Makes sense — his vo2 max has improved. — Dan

Response:

If you get in shape to do tempo runs at 3 steps per breath cycle, you’re getting somewhere… I want to first learn to run long at this speed… I am training for a marathon.

Strangely enough, if you train fast (eg, a 30-40 minute tempo run at 3 or in your case 4 step breathing) for shorter distances, you magically become able to hold a faster pace for long distances. One of the amazing things about training is that you need never run a fast 20 miler in training, but if you do the speedwork and tempo work, you’ll be able to do a fast 20+ in a race without much problem.  Cool, huh? —  Dan

Response:

One of the amazing things about training is that you need never run a fast 20 miler in training, but if you do the speedwork and tempo work, you’ll be able to do a fast 20+ in a race without much problem.  Cool, huh?

But you still need a good aerobic base to run 20+ miles in the first place.  You can’t do only 45 minute tempo runs and expect to do well in a marathon.

Response:

One of the amazing things about training is that you need never run a fast 20 miler in training, but if you do the speedwork and tempo work, you’ll be able to do a fast 20+ in a race without much problem.  Cool, huh? But you still need a good aerobic base to run 20+ miles in the first place.  You can’t do only 45 minute tempo runs and expect to do well in a marathon.

I think his point was that you need slow 20 milers in training and the other stuff will take care of your speed. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night,  and party every day.  Then it was every other day. . . ."       -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the amazing things about training is that you need never run a fast 20 miler in training, but if you do the speedwork and tempo work, you’ll be able to do a fast 20+ in a race without much problem.  Cool, huh? But you still need a good aerobic base to run 20+ miles in the first place.  You can’t do only 45 minute tempo runs and expect to do well in a marathon. I think his point was that you need slow 20 milers in training and the other stuff will take care of your speed.

I caught that, but you never know how Ig will take things…

Response:

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] Learn to breathe!  Elite runners are breathing 3 to 4 steps per breath cycle at racing pace.  Are you holding yourself back by your breathing? I think you have potential to run noticably faster if you can get into better shape.  If your legs get strong enough to demand more oxygen, you’ll find yourself breathing harder, and running faster. I reach my MHR by breathing 1 step in, 1 step out.  85% with 2 in/1 out, and 60-65% with 3 in/3 out. If you get in shape to do tempo runs at 3 steps per breath cycle, you’re getting somewhere… —  Dan

Building on what Dan is saying, if one is maintaining a steady cadence of 180 at MHR, 85%, and 65%, Maintaining an erect posture and leaning forward from the ankle brings gravity into play as the body falls in the direction of the lean; The lean (angle) of the erect postured body from ankle to top of head increases as the speed increases; With increased speed, a greater distance is covered each stride; In order to maintain cadence, the runner has to move the leg more quickly through a greated range of motion; To cover a greater range while maintaining the same cadence, there is more work being done; The work being  done is to keep up with the rate of falling so that one does not fall; To not run out of oxygen and go into oxygen debt as one increases their speed while maintaining the same 180 cadence, one can shorten the breath cycle so that more cycles of air are taken in over the same amount of steps    4/4 over 24 steps is 3 cycles of air    3/3 over 24 steps is 4 cycles of air    3/2 over 24 steps is 5.8 cycles of air    2/2 over 24 steps is 6.0 cycles of air    2/1 over 24 steps is 8.0 cycles of air    1/1 over 24 steps is 12  cycles of air While using Danny Dryer’s image of the erect body leaning from the ankle as an accelerator pedal to increase the speed, the increase in cycles of  air with the increased speed while maintaining the same stride cadence would be the carburetor-increasing the amount of oxygen being burned.  Or someone might want to use the higher the speed while maintaining the same RPM of strides, one increases the RPM of breath to maintain the overall perceived effort; The idea of the different breath cycles while maintaining the same stride cadence and increasing the speed is to give the brain and body enough oxygen so that a homeostasis is maintained while increasing the work load; While maintaining a constant speed with an increase in effort due to a steep hill or the glycogen depletion at the end of a long run, marathon, or ultra, one can use the same cycles above to maintain their constant speed – e.g. climbing a steep hill at elevation when a 2/1 or a 1/1 feels normal and natural.  For me it is maintaining enough oxygen so that the brain does not panic and cause waste of energy by tightening up or tensing other muscles that need not be brought into work being done; Some Great dialogue and good info in this thread. Building on Donavan’s: I wonder if this is partly determined by ones VO2 max ? I mean, when

you did the measurements, you had exceptionally high VO2 max and relatively poor running economy, which basically means you’re a "gas guzzler", so maybe that explains why you breathe fairly quickly even at a low relative intensity. I’ve noticed one of my training partners used a very low breathing

rate when he was starting out (3-3 for the bulk of a speed workout) and this has been picking up as he’s been training. Cheers, Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ Practicing breath,  Practice Form and Style While the 180 is an ideal or a scientific fiction, one can train at 180 steps/minute going at a 9 or 10 minute mile and breathing 8/8 while practicing to inflate the lungs to maximum.  As the speed increases the breath cycle goes to a 8/6, then 7/6, then 6/6, then 6/5, then 5/5, then 5/4, then 4/4 and so on (this is a way to practice using breath so that the volume exchange remains the same and that one can gradually work at getting the same volume exchange at a 2/1 or 1/1).  Again this is some folklore to practice and play with. While maintaining a 180 cadence, an even cycle (air out+air in=even number of steps) will coordinate with  same foot landing at the beginning of the cycle; while a odd cycle (airout+air in= odd number of steps) will be a bilateral foot landing at the beginning of each breath cycle. Another image that might be helpful is the use of breathing as shifting gears.  The more effort due to increased speed or more work (hills) the greater the number of breathing cycles per minute. Newsgroups: rec.running Interesting — it would seem that the high vo2 max guys have to breathe

harder to get that extra output. .Higher redline, in other words.  They might be working just as hard (breathing as hard) as you running 7:00/mile, but while you might hit LT at 5:40, they can keep revving up the motor before they hit their redline at 5:00. .It would also follow that in general, when you improve your vo2 max, you can comfortably run at a higher breathing rate. .I was about 18% less efficient than my world-class brethren with the same vo2 max of 76 (which predicts a 2:14 marathon).  I would guess about 10% less efficient than the average competitor. .Still, the fast guys I used to run with raced 3 step a lot of the time. Donovan said: I’ve noticed one of my training partners used a very low breathing

rate when he was starting out (3-3 for the bulk of a speed workout) and this has been picking up as he’s been training. Makes sense — his vo2 max has improved. — Dan

My logic would go, the higher the VO2Max, the lower the breathing rate. This would also mean that there was more capacity or more gears for this higher VO2Max person to down shift to.  Rather than having 3 or 4 gears they could shift to 8 or 10 different gears. This goes along with your training partner’s ability to start out at a lower breathing rate at the beginning of  your speed workouts.  In my mind’s eye, because I am increasing the effort, I want to hyperventilate but knowing that the rapid breathing will only bring me to statis quo.  Therefore I’m keeping the perceived effort low especially if I can keep the brain oxygenated very well. So at the end of a  section of a speed workout, I don’t bend over, I keep my legs moving and continue to breathe at the breathe cycle I finished (e.g. 2/1 or 1/1) until I can feel that I am recovering and can go to a 2/2 or 3/3. From the Sport Psych part of me, in training people, I want them to feel the control they have by their breathing as opposed to gasping, hands on knees with the brain sending negative messages as to having to do this 6 more times. In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Maintainer – rec.running FAQ   http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/ Mindful Running:   http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

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Question:

chance I tapered too much?

i’m not an expert but don’t tapering was the reason for you probs. on the contrary, i think tapering will allow you body to recover and get more resistant to injury. what i do while tapering is increase stretching, which works great after an easy workout. when i devote less time for ‘active’ training i can concentrate more on the usually little neglected things. p!

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I just did my third half Ironman race this season.  Unfortunately I couldn’t finish the run due to severe pains in my ankles.  The pain started the minute I got on my bike and continued (bearably) until mile 5 of the run.  By then it hurt to walk, and I bowed out.  The previous half Ironman brought similar, but not as bad results.  I finished that race, but I had uncharacteristic ankle pain as soon as I was done (didn’t notice any during the race).  Ironically, these were my two "priority" races, and I tapered significantly the two weeks prior to the races (down to 1/2 or 1/3 of my "normal" weekly training time).  On the other hand, the first half Ironman this season was "just another race" and I didn’t taper at all (even the week of the race).  That race led to a PR of over 15 minutes faster than my previous best time.  In between the two "painful" races, I was able to bike 3 hours and run over 2 hours (not consecutively) with no abnormal pain. Any chance I tapered too much?

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Rich, Sounds more like an injury, than a training issue. John Martinez – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon I just did my third half Ironman race this season.  Unfortunately I couldn’t finish the run due to severe pains in my ankles.  The pain started the minute I got on my bike and continued (bearably) until mile 5 of the run.  By then it hurt to walk, and I bowed out.  The previous half Ironman brought similar, but not as bad results.  I finished that race, but I had uncharacteristic ankle pain as soon as I was done (didn’t notice any during the race).  Ironically, these were my two "priority" races, and I tapered significantly the two weeks prior to the races (down to 1/2 or 1/3 of my "normal" weekly training time).  On the other hand, the first half Ironman this season was "just another race" and I didn’t taper at all (even the week of the race).  That race led to a PR of over 15 minutes faster than my previous best time.  In between the two "painful" races, I was able to bike 3 hours and run over 2 hours (not consecutively) with no abnormal pain. Any chance I tapered too much?

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Question:

Did any of the Ottawa-based readers of this newsgroup make it to last night’s meeting to discuss the construction of a new track in the city? I had a prior engagement at the very same time (7-9pm) so I couldn’t attend. I’ve heard about it on CBC radio this morning, but I can’t find anything on newspapers’ websites. They didn’t specify that it was an indoor one. The sense I got last week is that this what was going to be debated, not another outdoor facility. Speaking of our outdoor track, the French delegation at the Francophone Games had derogatory things to say about it. The track itself is fine; it’s the buildings, etc. around it that aren’t up to par with worlds or olympic standards… Thanks for any info, Daniel — Daniel Pierre-Antoine Dept. of Political Science Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, ON  K1L 5B6

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It was more of a presentation. A consultant hired by the City has come up with a short-list of several possible sites one of which is at Carleton University. A draft report is to go the City tomorrow. We were told that this project is being fast-tracked by the Mayor’s office which seems like a good sign. There were around 60 people in attendance and some "spirited" discussion which will have no influence on the City’s direction. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did any of the Ottawa-based readers of this newsgroup make it to last night’s meeting to discuss the construction of a new track in the city? I had a prior engagement at the very same time (7-9pm) so I couldn’t attend. I’ve heard about it on CBC radio this morning, but I can’t find anything on newspapers’ websites. They didn’t specify that it was an indoor one. The sense I got last week is that this what was going to be debated, not another outdoor facility. Speaking of our outdoor track, the French delegation at the Francophone Games had derogatory things to say about it. The track itself is fine; it’s the buildings, etc. around it that aren’t up to par with worlds or olympic standards… Thanks for any info, Daniel

Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site

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Thanks, Ken. Will that report be made public in an accessible form (online)? What was the gist of the "spirited" interventions? Cheers, Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was more of a presentation. A consultant hired by the City has come up with a short-list of several possible sites one of which is at Carleton University. A draft report is to go the City tomorrow. We were told that this project is being fast-tracked by the Mayor’s office which seems like a good sign. There were around 60 people in attendance and some "spirited" discussion which will have no influence on the City’s direction. Ken Did any of the Ottawa-based readers of this newsgroup make it to last night’s meeting to discuss the construction of a new track in the city? I had a prior engagement at the very same time (7-9pm) so I couldn’t attend. I’ve heard about it on CBC radio this morning, but I can’t find anything on newspapers’ websites. They didn’t specify that it was an indoor one. The sense I got last week is that this what was going to be debated, not another outdoor facility. Speaking of our outdoor track, the French delegation at the Francophone Games had derogatory things to say about it. The track itself is fine; it’s the buildings, etc. around it that aren’t up to par with worlds or olympic standards… Thanks for any info, Daniel Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site

– Daniel Pierre-Antoine Dept. of Political Science Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, ON  K1L 5B6

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There were no plans to put the report on the internet. The City will Ext.24385. Two of the main "concerns" raised were: 1. The lack of attention to the fact that athletes need an interim facility starting this winter until the process produces a long term solution (assuming of course that it does). We have the Commonwealth Games next year and the Athens Olympics in 3 years. It is doubtful we will have a new permanent facility before then. We are coming off a year – 2000_ in which the outdoor facility was not available. 2. The concern that a "multi-use" facility, possibly using an existing building, was not of the options. The concern was that with only high end options being considered (at a high cost) it might be considered too pricey and result in yet another study which leads nowhere. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, Ken. Will that report be made public in an accessible form (online)? What was the gist of the "spirited" interventions? Cheers, Daniel It was more of a presentation. A consultant hired by the City has come up with a short-list of several possible sites one of which is at Carleton University. A draft report is to go the City tomorrow. We were told that this project is being fast-tracked by the Mayor’s office which seems like a good sign. There were around 60 people in attendance and some "spirited" discussion which will have no influence on the City’s direction. Ken Did any of the Ottawa-based readers of this newsgroup make it to last night’s meeting to discuss the construction of a new track in the city? I had a prior engagement at the very same time (7-9pm) so I couldn’t attend. I’ve heard about it on CBC radio this morning, but I can’t find anything on newspapers’ websites. They didn’t specify that it was an indoor one. The sense I got last week is that this what was going to be debated, not another outdoor facility. Speaking of our outdoor track, the French delegation at the Francophone Games had derogatory things to say about it. The track itself is fine; it’s the buildings, etc. around it that aren’t up to par with worlds or olympic standards… Thanks for any info, Daniel Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site

Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

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Question:

Are you for real?

This subject really pushed your button, eh? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder.

Actually, that’s an incorrect reference. "Newsgroups" are actually part of the Usenet, a discussion forum. If people want to get some excitment in their life by watching a TV program late then they can also avoid reading NEWS from a newsgroup.

It’s attitudes like this that spoil the fun. Listen, you did an excellent job posting the updates. I had fun reliving the experience of watching the race by reading your posts. You brought out a lot that NBC did not. However, the request was politely made and reasonable. And, it is no different than what has been requested in past Olympics on this and other forums. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Of course, now that both races have been shown, it’s pretty much a mute argument. But, maybe we could agree upon something before Athens in 2004… David / FEY2K IMCAL2000 – 16:53 (remove spaces) at att dot net

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Are you for real? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder. If people want to get some excitment in their life by watching a TV program late then they can also avoid reading NEWS from a newsgroup.

He didn’t berate anyone, he simply posted an example of how other NEWS groups manage to give people a choice without stepping on anyone’s toes, and he did so in response to other people’s complaints about it.  It was a perfectly reasonable suggestion, no less reasonable than having people preface ‘for sale’ messages with ‘FS.’  Everyone wins – the post is made, and both those who want the news and those who don’t get what they want.  Exactly who loses in this simple application of common courtesy and consideration for others?

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Just a thought, we do this on game-show discussion groups. If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense) If you post (SPOILER) in the subject line, and include information on the results down in the body of the e-mail, then folks who DON’T want to know, won’t have to find out. One technique used to post text lower in the message is to put the alphabet down the left-side, like so: a b c d e f g…

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Are you for real? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder. If people want to get some excitment in their life by watching a TV program late then they can also avoid reading NEWS from a newsgroup. LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a thought, we do this on game-show discussion groups. If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense) If you post (SPOILER) in the subject line, and include information on the results down in the body of the e-mail, then folks who DON’T want to know, won’t have to find out. One technique used to post text lower in the message is to put the alphabet down the left-side, like so: a b c d e f g…

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If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense)

Oh come on get real! Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.  Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t. Anyway its still found your post interesting to read as in what some people consider as net etiquette. HAHAHAHA

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Are you for real? This is a NEWS forum. Ever notice why it says new:rec.sport.triathlon and why it is available on a NEWS feeder.

Oh come on get real! Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.  Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t.

Haha!  Ooops… hey, it was just a suggestion. I wasn’t suggesting that folks curtail what they post, just that they put something in the subject line… oh, forget it! I guess I won’t be getting a placque for "best newsgroup suggestion of the year." Cheers! Streb

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If you have results of a race, in order to be considerate to folks who haven’t seen it, yet (especially a televised event… maybe somebody recorded it and wants to see it with some suspense) Oh come on get real! Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.  Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t. Anyway its still found your post interesting to read as in what some people consider as net etiquette. HAHAHAHA

Actually, Tom, I was going to let this go, but your post was so mean-spirited that I’m going to have to take you to task. <<Oh come on get real! I am being real.  I posted this after a similar request by Ruth.  Again, it was just a suggestion.  Sorry it offended you so.  Apparently asking for a little consideration for some folks is cause for you to get excited. Your getting a little carried away with whats "politically correct" according to you.

Actually, considering that what I posted had nothing to do with "political correctness" I can only presume have no concept of what political correctness actually is.  Fortunately for you, ignorance is not a crime. Who cares if you don’t want to read it then don’t.

If you put spoiler info in the subject line, folks don’t have any choice. Again, I was not saying you should NOT post things like this.  I was just offerring a suggestion for those who, unlike you, don’t mind being considerate. By all means, be rude and inconsiderate.  It’s a free country.  I was just offerring a suggestion for those readers who have manners.  I most certainly expect you to ignore it. Anyway its still found your post interesting to read as in what some people consider as net etiquette. HAHAHAHA

Actually, if you go to almost any other newsgroup (including rec.running, right now), you’ll see the word, "spoiler" in the subject line on some posts. Sorry you didn’t know this.  As I said before, ignorance is no crime. Welcome to my kill file, Tom.  You’re an abject jackass. At least Curloo offerred a logical reason for why we shouldn’t tag spoilers.

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Question:

I find it rather interesting that here it is Sunday morning, 9:45am, and there is not a single post regarding the results of yesterday’s results from the pro division.  Compare that with the hourly updates from Kona last year.  I think that says it all.  I live about 3-4 hours from Cleveland, and I had no desire what so ever to go and watch.  I live about 9 hours (by plane) from Kona, and I wish I could figure out a way to take a week off work and go watch.  I haven’t ruled it out yet. — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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I know I’m probably not alone in holding this opinion, but I

really don’t consider it to be the championship of the sport in which I compete. The ITU may call it a triathlon, but it isn’t the same sport, so

why should I get excited about it?                                    – John

Yes, I agree.   Another thing, the ITU pretty much dictated which of our Pro athletes could go to Worlds by putting in additional criteria for qualification.  For example, Mary Ellen Powers was either 5th or 6th American at the US Pro Championship.(Shu’s) That should have qualified her since they were taking six pro men and women. But no, she had to have competed in an ITU race as well. Now, were there any in the US? No, there was one in Canada but she wasn’t able to go to that one because of a family commitment. The others were all too far and expensive. I’m sure Powers wasn’t the only one in this situation. Diana

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I find it rather interesting that here it is Sunday morning, 9:45am, and there is not a single post regarding the results of yesterday’s results from the pro division.  Compare that with the hourly updates from Kona last year.  I think that says it all.  

I know I’m probably not alone in holding this opinion, but I really don’t consider it to be the championship of the sport in which I compete. The ITU may call it a triathlon, but it isn’t the same sport, so why should I get excited about it?                                         — John — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

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Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada" Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

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Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada"

Well, there’s something for Canadians everywhere to be ashamed of. Their government has officially endorsed the pseudosport of draftathlon.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada" Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web A running & triathlon resource site. http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

Whoopie.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Government of Canada takes on Sponsorship of ITU World Championships: Race organizers for the 1999 ITU World Championship to be held in Montreal, Quebec on September 11th and 12th have made the following announcement: It is with great pleasure for us to announce that the Government of Canada is the Title Sponsor of the World Triathlon Championships. The event’s title shall henceforth be referred to as: "1999 ITU Triathlon World Championships – Canada" Well, there’s something for Canadians everywhere to be ashamed of. Their government has officially endorsed the pseudosport of draftathlon.

When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins does it?  I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a pulse. Joel

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport.

I do have to agree on this point, although it was probably due to the lack of a commercial sponsor and the possibility of losing the event. Munich just let it go when this dilemma arose. As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of the participants will be in the draft legal event.

What about the 90% in the "no drafting" age group event that will, if the past is any indication, not have any draft enforcement or penalties, even though drafting will be rampant. The ITU doesn’t give a *&%# about the age group race other than the money it generates. They would do without if another source of funding could be found. <For the athletes in the Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins does it?

No, it takes incredible athleticism. It’s just that we would like to see the pros compete in something resembling the same sport we do. I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a pulse.

Actually it’s not that at all. I would compete in draft legal races, as well as non drafting ones. I have no objection to having variations to the standard format. That is what draft legal racing could be, just like races that use canoes, or mix the events up in different order. I do object to an authoritarian body deciding that looped course, draft legal racing will henceforth be the "official" version of triathlon for the Olympics and all "World Championship" events for the elite segment of the sport but will not be allowed now, or ever in the future, for age group athletes. What kind of ruling is this? As for the excitement factor, the bike segment is now about as thrilling as watching grass grow (unless there’s a crash. now that’s real excitement!). Maybe Greco-Roman Wrestling should take some tips from the WWF to be more "exciting and TV friendly". Put those little gymnasts in skimpier costumes. With a little imagination we could spice up the entire Olympics. Let’s run the marathon on a track so everyone can see better and they can sell tickets. Why haven’t they put road cycling on a 5 mile loop for easier TV coverage? These ideas would be considered absurd by the participants in these sports. Only triathlon has been drastically altered from it’s original format and principle of individual effort in 3 disciplines to be more "TV and audience friendly". Mark Sisson said in the latest issue of Triathlete magazine that he saw many reasons for the change, and only one against it….tradition. Well, Mark, in most sport tradition means a hell of a lot. But I guess he and Les can’t see past the dollar signs. I think the ITU and the Olympics, which could have had a great, positive effect on the sport have, instead, done nothing but divide. What will happen to the newcomers who watch the Olympics and then get DQ’d when they make the step to complete a triathlon? I’m tired of this argument. It’s gone on for too long. Andrew — Andrew Peabody/Karen Fisher Coconut Grove, FL

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins does it?  I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a pulse. Joel

In addition to Andrew Peabody’s excellent points (yes, why DON’t we change Greco-Roman wrestling in the Olympics to a WWF steel cage match to increase TV viewership, and maybe even go to coed naked gymnastics?) Just a few things: 1. Who says government sponsorchip is automatically a good thing (except Karl Marx, that is?) 2. The point about draftathlon is that it completely negates the entire reason for triathlon’s existence.  It is no longer an individual sport with drafting, as covert alliances and collusion are inevitable.  More important, the entire point of multisport racing is that competitors must be competitive in ALL the diciplines, and that competitive advantage may be gained or lost in all segments of the race.  As this years ITU pro races have aptly demonstrated, draftathlon is little more than a footrace with a warmup, where a stellar performance swimmming or biking is completely negated by drafting on the bike.  Of course, this tendency to "redistribute the competitive wealth" two-thirds of the way through the race probably appeals to the socialist sensibilities of someone who sees government sponsorship as some sort of grail worth the sacrifice of the soul of the sport. 3. As for the current limitation to ITU elite racing, what happens there has a top down effect on the rest of the sport.  As posts here have demonstrated, new peoplw are coming to the sport after seeing TV coverage of ITU events with no idea of what real triathlon is, and some have expressed disappointment upon learning that they would actually have to COMPETE  throughout the race.  This is especially dangerous when you consider that the primary source of new triathletes is the running community, and draftathlon favors such people.  Triathlon will NOT remain draft free unless we are all vigilant in fighting the change.

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You may be missing a subtle political point here. The federal government in Canada wants to demonstrate to the people of the province of Quebec (where the ITU’s will be held) that they are doing a lot for them. In sponsoring the event, the federal government shows that it can bring "important" cultural/sport/economic events to the province and so upstage the provincial government and it’s desire for separation from the rest of Canada. Stephen

Interesting point. Thanks for that perspective. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. Why is it good that a national government would reduce itself to shilling a race? You might expect it of an emerging third world nation, but Canada?

        Remember the 1976 Montreal Olympics or the 2000 Sydney Games or most every other games except LA and Atlanta relied on government funding (some indirect funding for LA and ATL in security and infrastructure).  The IOC evens demands government financing or backing (what else from a bunch of socialists). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What’s next, the official Canadian dental floss? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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A few years ago the Howard County Government took on title sponsorship of the USAT National Age-Group Championship, held in Columbia, MD. It IS a good thing if you can get a government to endorse your sport. Ray Plotecia

|When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a |triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. |As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of |the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the |Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess |it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins |does it? | I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. |You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone |who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a |pulse. |Joel |

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A few years ago the Howard County Government took on title sponsorship of the USAT National Age-Group Championship, held in Columbia, MD. It IS a good thing if you can get a government to endorse your sport.

        I disagree from a political philosophy with government financially supporting sports except in the most remote manner such as security that would be needed for any gathering of people.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ray Plotecia |When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a |triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. |As for the "pseudosport of draftathlon." comment,  less that about 10 % of |the participants will be in the draft legal event. For the athletes in the |Elite field, do you not consider draft legal triathlon a real sport? I guess |it doesn’t take much of an athlete to swim 17 min, bike 55 and run 30 mins |does it? | I am sick of the attitude most age-groupers have toward draft legal races. |You can all relax because you will never have to compete in one! Also anyone |who says that these races aren’t exciting to watch should  check for a |pulse. |Joel |

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You may be missing a subtle political point here. The federal government in Canada wants to demonstrate to the people of the province of Quebec (where the ITU’s will be held) that they are doing a lot for them. In sponsoring the event, the federal government shows that it can bring "important" cultural/sport/economic events to the province and so upstage the provincial government and it’s desire for separation from the rest of Canada. Stephen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport. Why is it good that a national government would reduce itself to shilling a race? You might expect it of an emerging third world nation, but Canada? What’s next, the official Canadian dental floss? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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When was the last time a government stepped up to be the title sponsor of a triathlon? This is a GOOD thing for the sport.

Why is it good that a national government would reduce itself to shilling a race? You might expect it of an emerging third world nation, but Canada? What’s next, the official Canadian dental floss? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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Question:

Hey, I’m stuck on a vacation trip in Baraboo, Wisconsin on the weekend of August 9-10 and looking for a bike ride to help get a 100 plus ride in the easy way. Anybody know of any organized century rides?

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Hey, I’m stuck on a vacation trip in Baraboo, Wisconsin on the weekend of August 9-10 and looking for a bike ride to help get a 100 plus ride in the easy way. Anybody know of any organized century rides?

Don’t know of an organized ride, but you are only about 55M from the Elroy-Sparta Trail, a 32M dirt trail you can ride your road bike on easily. There are some tunnels you must walk your bike through, 1 is 3/4M long! Bring a flashlight-makes for a very interesting day.  Continue on for another 14M and you will be in Reedsburg, WI. At Webb Park there is a 50M pool, make sure to call ahead of time to see if operational. Lap swimming is usually 4:30-5:30. Great brick!   If you are starting out at Devil’s Lake State Park, which is very scenic in itself, it makes a nice ride. I have the route, it is from the Twin Cities–Chicago AIDS ride. let me know ifyou need a copy. Lee Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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Question:

I will be in Austin TX on July 4 and would like to do a road race.  5k, 10k, 15k…whatever.  If anyone knows of a good one please let me know. You are talking about double-90 weather: 90 degree+ temperatures and 90%+ humidity. No one in Texas schedules races then. However then are scenic places to runin Austin, starting with the Town Lake loop in downtown.

I live in Houston and we have runs every weekend and yes 90+ on both temp and humidity. We have a great 5 mile run in Baytown called the Baytown Heat Wave and yes it will be hot. But we finish at the Budwiser distributor and drink beer for a few hours.

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Ron: If you go to http://www.imageworkscgi.com/racepage/ you will find a calendar of races in the Austin area, including one on July 4.  However, the page gives no info on the races, so you may want to contact Run-Tex, which sponsors the page. Go to http://www.runtex.com/ to reach them, or dial Austin information and ask for Run-Tex’s phone number.  Or drop by when you get into town; they’re a really good running store. Lee Nichols Austin, Texas — Listen to "Fais Do-Do," Cajun and zydeco music every Tuesday, 10-11am, on KOOP (91.7FM) in Austin, Texas

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The complete results (including B and C heats from the  IAAF Grand Prix Meet in Lausanne are available on the Runner Triathlete News Web Site. Point your browser to: http://www.runningnetwork.com/RunTriNews You’ll find them in the Results section. Lance Phegley Editor Runner Triathlete News

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The current IAAF World Track and Field Rankings are available on the Runner Triathlete News Web Site. Point your browser to: http://www.runningnetwork.com/RunTriNews You’ll find the current rankings in the Results section. Lance Phegley Editor Runner Triathlete News

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ottolini) writes: I will be in Austin TX on July 4 and would like to do a road race. 5k, 10k, 15k…whatever.  If anyone knows of a good one please let me know. You are talking about double-90 weather: 90 degree+ temperatures and 90%+ humidity. No one in Texas schedules races then. However then are scenic places to runin Austin, starting with the Town Lake loop in downtown.

What part of Texas are you from?  Yes, you have described the Texas weather accurately, but as the editor of Runner Triathlete News, the largest running and multi-sport magazine in the Southwest, I know there are plenty of races to choose from. In fact, over the July 4 weekend, there are 21 races from which to choose across the state of Texas! If you’re going to be in the Austin area, I suggest checking out the Firecracker 5000 in Round Rock (not far from Austin).  It has a unique way of distributing awards: the categories are based on the sum of your weight and age. If you miss that one (or just are a glutton for punishment) check out the Mountain Climb 5k in San Antonio on the 5th.  Roger Soler will be putting on the race, and he always does a good job. For complete info on these races, and the hundreds of others acrossed the Southwest (even in the summer), check out the Runner Triathlete News Web Site at: http://www.runningnetwork.com/RunTriNews Lance Phegley Editor Runner Triathlete News

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I will be in Austin TX on July 4 and would like to do a road race.  5k, 10k, 15k…whatever.  If anyone knows of a good one please let me know. Thanks

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I will be in Austin TX on July 4 and would like to do a road race.  5k, 10k, 15k…whatever.  If anyone knows of a good one please let me know.

You are talking about double-90 weather: 90 degree+ temperatures and 90%+ humidity. No one in Texas schedules races then. However then are scenic places to runin Austin, starting with the Town Lake loop in downtown.

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Question:

Yes I do. Don Carr’s phone number (Tux. Bros.) in Indianapolis is 317 328 1632. You call call and ask for entry forms, money, desert, anything…Don’s a nice guy. Steve Locke USA Triathlon

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Does anyone have a contact number for entry forms for the Tuxedo brothers duathlon in Indianapolis? -Terry

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Yes I do. Don Carr’s phone number (Tux. Bros.) in Indianapolis is 317 328 1632. You call call and ask for entry forms, money, desert, anything…Don’s a nice guy. Steve Locke USA Triathlon

Boy, you better throw that in there!  Does anyone recall Steve Locke as one of the Tuxedo Bro’s???  He and Don ran some great races back in the 80’s, and Don is carrying to torch well. — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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Tuxedo Brothers can be reached at (317)328-1632  or via web page:   http://www.iquest.net/tuxbro. Hope this helps and have a great race! Michelle

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Question:

Does inline skating help running at all? Lisa

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In-line skating is more akin to the cycling action than running but it’s a good all round leg conditioner – helping muscle balance etc – can’t be bad. It’s also a good way to get an aerobic workout without the hammering that running gives your legs so your cardio-vascular system gets a tuning while your legs get it a bit easier. in-line skating gets an article in this months ‘Triathlete’ magazine – could be worth a look.

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  Does inline skating help running at all?   Skating, be it in-line or plain ol’ rollers, increases your aerobic fitness and leg strength. One data point:- Miles Stewart, an Australian triathlete champion, almost lived on skates (don’t know whether they were rollers or in-lines) as an adolescent.  He has a nasty habit of grabbing championship titles from "name-brand" athletes. Skating is a good way to condition your legs without the shock on the system which running inflicts.  But, if running is what you’re after – run… — Paul Big Ears Menon Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology 124 La Trobe Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3001, Australia Ph: +61 3 660 3209/2348 Fx: +61 3 662 1617 ICBM: lat 37^ 50′ S long 145^ 0′ E WWW: http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/people/TSG/pnm.html

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: Does inline skating help running at all? : Lisa It certainly helps my running. When I’m running the bike path along the beach and a gal wearing thongs and inline skates passes me, I certainly start running faster. Sure hope I don’t trip and break something. (sippinSamuelAdamsandtriningforNYCMinLongBeachCaliforniawheretheearth movesundermyfeet)

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Question:

        I bought a pair of Diadora Ergo-Z bike shoe last summer and they turned out to be big loosers.  You can’t really adjust the tightness of the middle part of the shoe (since it’s only one long strap) and when you combine this with the fact that the strap is only made of fabric which tends to stretch, the shoe really doesn’t grab the foot very well.  So to keep them tight enough, my feet are getting really sore from having the strap so tight.         What’s a good triathlon bike shoe to be looking for?  Some people around here have mentioned the Carnac shoe that many people used in the Ironman.  There are a lot of bike shoes out there, but considering the transition in triathlon, that eliminates a lot of them.  Even the Ergo-Z wasn’t a good shoe from this perspective.         The cost of bike shoes are so high, that I’m hoping not to make another bad choice.  Please send me any recommendations.  Thanks. —                         — Andy Ross —                     University of Pennsylvania                  Medical School Computer Facility

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For short triathlons I use standard pedals with toe clips and ride in racing flats.  I cut a notch in the sole to grip the lip of the pedal. For longer races I use Performance pedals and shoes, which cost about $110 combined.  I like these better than the Time pedals and shoes (which were $250).  Over the years the Time pedals became increasingly difficult to get into, having to push very hard to get the shoes to snap in.  Also, after years of running my feet grew from size 12 to 13 and the shoes were getting tight. #include <disclaimer.h                |____|

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   What’s a good triathlon bike shoe to be looking for?

I have been using NIKE Sytem Ultra shoes fo a couple years.  I love the shoes.  Very adjustable, two straps on top, one in back. Also easy in easy out.  The only negative would be that the top of the shoe is mosty nylon (except the straps) so if you do lots of hills and really pull up when pedalling, they may not be as firm as your wish.  Since most tri courses are reasonalby flat, I don’t see this as a big issue. kbb — Kim B. Blair, Ph.D.                     Senior Staff Scientist

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