Question:

Banister, Carter, and  Zarkadas.  Training theory and tape: validation in triathlon athletes EJAP 79: 182 1999 The above reference can get you started.  EJAP is Euro Journal of Applied Physiology.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        Taking it one step farther, several researchers (Banister—not the miler) has been looking at using HR to assess what has been termed training impulse (TRIMP).  The math gets kinda complicated but the idea is that you can quantify training intensity by using HR.  One of the questions asked is something like:  Is a one hour tempo run as stressful as a two hour run that is 30 sec/mile slower but twice as long in terms of time?  TRIMP seeks to answer this.   I’d be interested in it.  Math is no obstacle for me.  Reference? (Online availability is a plus since I don’t have a university library.) I’ve had some thoughts towards a similar idea myself. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur

activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New

Sciences

Response:

       Taking it one step farther, several researchers (Banister—not the miler) has been looking at using HR to assess what has been termed training impulse (TRIMP).  The math gets kinda complicated but the idea is that you can quantify training intensity by using HR.  One of the questions asked is something like:  Is a one hour tempo run as stressful as a two hour run that is 30 sec/mile slower but twice as long in terms of time?  TRIMP seeks to answer this.

  I’d be interested in it.  Math is no obstacle for me.  Reference? (Online availability is a plus since I don’t have a university library.) I’ve had some thoughts towards a similar idea myself.   — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

was: Correction to HRM thread…

[snip] Do you have any problems if I quote this once in a while. You’re pure fortune cookie material.

Fortune cookie material:  sugar, spice and other things nice? Jennifer –  Feel free. Just notify me of any royalties check forthcoming

Response:

Jenn e fir spoke the following words of wisdom: : Sure they’re self-appointed because those freakin slow witted Dade County folks : are still counting votes.  Blessed are those with slow wit for they : shall…uh..they shall…damn, I’ve forgotten. Heh. I liked this remark. Do you have any problems if I quote this once in a while. You’re pure fortune cookie material. Sorry for being off-topic folks. der Joachim — Computational linguistics student at Tilburg U., the Netherlands http://www.der-joachim.myweb.nl/ Servant of reality my hairy ass! (H.P. Derleth, Hollow One)

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Believe me, Patrick – the last thing I want is a flame war. I think you misread my post. Sorry if you thought otherwise! I’m one of the folks who want peace and a little bit of decency and respect towards one another. Sorry to interrupt your topic of interest – please continue! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to run slow. I must learn to run fast."                                                    Emil Zatopek http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading this newsgoup for three years. Today I’m going to unsub to this newsgroup.  The level of  put downs is very high.   There is a small group that have appointed themselves the gods of rec. running.  They are blessed with the skill of quick wit.  They use that quick sharp wit to demean others they disagree with. I agree that a person must educate themselves.  As a runner warrior there is no use for them that put themselves above others. I agree – it seems I spend a lot of time sifting through ‘clever’, ‘intellectual’ posts that seem to serve no purpose other than to put people down. I’m not sure what purpose they serve actually, other than to turn r.r into something it is not. Why is this coming up on this side thread?  Sam changed the subject header, posted some very useful information, and consequently added some objectivity to the original thread.  I asked for clarification on some points as, has often been the case, I got confused.  Ozzie then commented that he appreciated the exchange of opinions and other information, mentioning that dialouge is a fine path towards acheiving knowledge. If anything, I thought this side thread was bringing back the dialouge on HRMs to a more sober and considerate tenor rather than becoming a purposeless flame war.  Was I mistaken? — Patrick

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   was: Correction to HRM thread… << I’ve been reading this newsgoup for three years. Cool.  Are you any relation to Michelle Kayter?  She’s one fast Canadian Chick who, as I can best recall, can turn a 400m in 60 seconds flat.  That’s on speed skates, but it sure looked fast to me.

There’s a Kayter, female, in Saskatchewan, about 17 years old, did 300m in around 45 recently. That’s on dry land. (Just glanced in passing, don’t remember any other details.) << Today I’m going to unsub to this newsgroup.   And yet, you’ve never contributed or posted before now?  I couldn’t find you on deja.com.  And now, only in departing do you speak?  I’m beginnin’ to smell a rat here.

Kinda odd. neither google nor etin have any mention of her id, either. "Runner warrior?!"  What does that even mean? Oh man, I see the symptoms:  too many Xena Warrior Princesses or Buffey episodes. Oh, come on back Amy (hmm…faked header…unknown ISP…something is stinky in the state of Denmark methinks)

gee. Ya think??

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading this newsgoup for three years. Today I’m going to unsub to this newsgroup.  The level of  put downs is very high.   There is a small group that have appointed themselves the gods of rec. running.  They are blessed with the skill of quick wit.  They use that quick sharp wit to demean others they disagree with. I agree that a person must educate themselves.  As a runner warrior there is no use for them that put themselves above others. I agree – it seems I spend a lot of time sifting through ‘clever’, ‘intellectual’ posts that seem to serve no purpose other than to put people down. I’m not sure what purpose they serve actually, other than to turn r.r into something it is not.

Why is this coming up on this side thread?  Sam changed the subject header, posted some very useful information, and consequently added some objectivity to the original thread.  I asked for clarification on some points as, has often been the case, I got confused.  Ozzie then commented that he appreciated the exchange of opinions and other information, mentioning that dialouge is a fine path towards acheiving knowledge. If anything, I thought this side thread was bringing back the dialouge on HRMs to a more sober and considerate tenor rather than becoming a purposeless flame war.  Was I mistaken? — Patrick

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    was: Correction to HRM thread… << I’ve been reading this newsgoup for three years. Cool.  Are you any relation to Michelle Kayter?  She’s one fast Canadian Chick who, as I can best recall, can turn a 400m in 60 seconds flat.  That’s on speed skates, but it sure looked fast to me. << Today I’m going to unsub to this newsgroup.   And yet, you’ve never contributed or posted before now?  I couldn’t find you on deja.com.  And now, only in departing do you speak?  I’m beginnin’ to smell a rat here. << The level of  put downs is very high. Oh pish tosh and twaddle.  That’s totally incorrect. << There is a small group that have appointed themselves the gods of rec. running.  They are blessed with the skill of quick wit.   Sure they’re self-appointed because those freakin slow witted Dade County folks are still counting votes.  Blessed are those with slow wit for they shall…uh..they shall…damn, I’ve forgotten. << They use that quick sharp wit to demean others they disagree with. Well, I don’t know about them self-appointed god folks but I’d never do that. I just demean others whether I disagree with them or not. << I agree that a person must educate themselves.  As a runner warrior there is no use for them that put themselves above others.   "Runner warrior?!"  What does that even mean? Oh man, I see the symptoms:  too many Xena Warrior Princesses or Buffey episodes. Oh, come on back Amy (hmm…faked header…unknown ISP…something is stinky in the state of Denmark methinks) Runner Warrior – guess whether you’re a runner warrior or running coward depends on which direction from the fight you’re running

Bwa ha, Jenn e fir good one.  Runner Warrior??? (What’d we do in in rec.running to need warriors?) Jennifergiggle

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ozzie writes To confront real issues in front of a group of people requires 2 things These 2 things need to happen simultaneously   1.  Collective intention – no one’s dignity will be sacrificed   2.  Collective intention  - the truth will be told Two things anyone in a group can do to help a group to confront something   1. Speak on your own behalf* (see defined)   2. Educate Yourself I’ve been reading this newsgoup for three years. Today I’m going to unsub to this newsgroup.  The level of  put downs is very high.   There is a small group that have appointed themselves the gods of rec. running.  They are blessed with the skill of quick wit.  They use that quick sharp wit to demean others they disagree with. I agree that a person must educate themselves.  As a runner warrior there is no use for them that put themselves above others.

I agree – it seems I spend a lot of time sifting through ‘clever’, ‘intellectual’ posts that seem to serve no purpose other than to put people down. I’m not sure what purpose they serve actually, other than to turn r.r into something it is not. One positive thing these posts do is make me realize how much of a turn off it is, and remembering the times I have ranted at someone – usually because I felt inferior, or I was angry at something else entirely and chose some poor person on the NG to vent my anger. This is something I vow to never do again. Anyway, back to running. I’m sure I have made spelling errors or said other things that can now be used to make me look like a HRM wearing fool (or something even worse, I imagine) but frankly I don’t care. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to run slow. I must learn to run fast."                                                    Emil Zatopek http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Ken, Is this the same article that rec.running has 52 posts on the thread started by Josh Steinberg on 4/25/01: True/False: Heart Rate Formula based on Science… With the article:    NY Times Online  April 24, 2001 ‘Maximum’ Heart Rate Theory Is Challenged By GINA KOLATA Ozzie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out this article from the NY Times. Free sign-up is required. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/health/24TRAI.html Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site

– In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Response:

Here is an online comparison of why HR is a useful indicator (or not) and cites most or many of the references you provide: http://www.curtin.edu.au/curtin/dept/physio/pt_old/edres/exphys/ep652… xhr.shtml After reading pros and cons, conducting my own test with my own gadget over several months and discarding it, I’ve reached my own conclusion. However, consider that the PRO side of the argument includes authors and vendors seeking a dollar and marketing toward YOUR pocketbook.  The CON side of the argument is not similarly motivated. Jennifer — the answer is clear if the HRM is useful or not: "who knows?"

Response:

   was: Correction to HRM thread… << I’ve been reading this newsgoup for three years. Cool.  Are you any relation to Michelle Kayter?  She’s one fast Canadian Chick who, as I can best recall, can turn a 400m in 60 seconds flat.  That’s on speed skates, but it sure looked fast to me. << Today I’m going to unsub to this newsgroup.   And yet, you’ve never contributed or posted before now?  I couldn’t find you on deja.com.  And now, only in departing do you speak?  I’m beginnin’ to smell a rat here. << The level of  put downs is very high. Oh pish tosh and twaddle.  That’s totally incorrect. << There is a small group that have appointed themselves the gods of rec. running.  They are blessed with the skill of quick wit.   Sure they’re self-appointed because those freakin slow witted Dade County folks are still counting votes.  Blessed are those with slow wit for they shall…uh..they shall…damn, I’ve forgotten. << They use that quick sharp wit to demean others they disagree with. Well, I don’t know about them self-appointed god folks but I’d never do that. I just demean others whether I disagree with them or not. << I agree that a person must educate themselves.  As a runner warrior there is no use for them that put themselves above others.   "Runner warrior?!"  What does that even mean? Oh man, I see the symptoms:  too many Xena Warrior Princesses or Buffey episodes. Oh, come on back Amy (hmm…faked header…unknown ISP…something is stinky in the state of Denmark methinks) Runner Warrior – guess whether you’re a runner warrior or running coward depends on which direction from the fight you’re running

Response:

Check out this article from the NY Times. Free sign-up is required. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/health/24TRAI.html Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site

Response:

Dear Sam and Patrick, Just want to say thanks for the ongoing dialogue and research info you two bring to rec.running.  I appreciate and am sure that many others hold similar feelings of appreciation for what you share. It’s nice to know that rec. running has its own S&P Index to assist us in keeping analysis and research in the direction of seeking truth, and beyond that: understanding. In addition, I am appreciative for your insights that keep me grounded when I miss the mark and speak out in ignorance.   You and so many of the other regulars to rec.running have maintained the ability to "Say it straight" while at the same time never demeaning, diminishing, or marginalizing the individual.   These are summed up in Wilfred Bion’s position: To confront real issues in front of a group of people requires 2 things     These 2 things need to happen simultaneously    1.  Collective intention – no one’s dignity will be sacrificed    2.  Collective intention  - the truth will be told Two things anyone in a group can do to help a group to confront something    1. Speak on your own behalf* (see defined)    2. Educate Yourself   Again, thanks for being part of this virtual community called: rec.running and assisting us in educating ourselves while speaking on our own behalf. In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp (4/28/01: Site down due to DSL going bancrupt. Should be up in the next 10 days) * defined: 1.  Speak on my own behalf I don’t speak for somebody else I don’t make assumptions about other’s motivations Make "I" Statements Dignity is destroyed by "you" statements "I" statements means saying , What I think,  what I feel,  what I want If I use "I" statement,  I think, I feel, I want, I need to know, What I do is put pressure on others to speak on their own behalf 2.  Educate Myself   Means I go into an exploratory mode and don’t assume I know why a problem is the way it is or necessarily what the problem is. I can never educate anyone else. They can educate themselves but I can’t educate anyone that doesn’t want to know.  Doesn’t matter how eloquent, logical or how overwhelming my case is.  If they don’t want to know, I cannot make them. Other people around the table can educate themselves and share what they’ve learned so that I can educate myself. And vice versa.

Response:

Most thought they were running harder or at a higher intensity than the HR data showed.

(snip)         I typed it properly but not clearly.  The study as a whole showed that the runners were not training as hard as they thought;  however, one subject (the one I mentioned) bucked that trend and was running harder than she thought.

So "most" didn’t or did think "they were running harder or at a higher intensity than the HR data?"         I think that recovery is a critical aspect of training and would put forth the argument that it is the most critical phase of training since that is when adaptation and improvement occurs.  The training sessions are the stimulus for adaptation but the body needs time to adapt and recovery/regeneration is when that occurs.

For sure.             I am not in the HRM as a necessary tool for runners, but I think the strength of the HRM when combined with an accurate MaxHR (leaving the formulae aside) can be useful to help the athlete find that proper level for recovery as well as running hard when one needs to.

To HRM or not can be compared to a person with an alarm clock.  A number of people have been proud to say that they don’t need an alarm clock, that they wake up on their own.  This is most likely due to proper rest and a remebered ability to allow natural biological moderators to do their thing. I’ve got the sneaking suspicion that left to one’s own devices, a runner would not only discover an appropriate recovery pace, but would be more locked into summoning it and recognizing it over the runner who was taught the same pace by an external device. (snip)         Taking it one step farther, several researchers (Banister—not the miler) has been looking at using HR to assess what has been termed training impulse (TRIMP).  The math gets kinda complicated but the idea is that you can quantify training intensity by using HR.  One of the questions asked is something like:  Is a one hour tempo run as stressful as a two hour run that is 30 sec/mile slower but twice as long in terms of time?  TRIMP seeks to answer this.

This promises to yield very interesting data.  What also might be nice is a curve of recovery intensity vs. % improvement.  That’s the whole point isn’t it?  An HRM gives precise feedback regarding a physical state namely HR. What’s lacking is the the study showing the relation between those physical states and its effect on performance.  Additionally, even if there were conclusive evidence that recovery has to take place within a certain range of intensity, where is the evidence that a runner wouldn’t naturally acheive that range at a lower frequency than an aided runner. Please, no math.  I’ve demonstrated my mathematical handicap.  Darn genes. — Patrick

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the references Sam. Most thought they were running harder or at a higher intensity than the HR data showed.  One subject listed 3 sessions of 5 as being easy when the HR data showed that she (all the subjects were females who were runners although of various ability) was in fact running at a moderate intensity 60% of the time. Did you type this right?  It appears contradictory. The first sentence says runners thought they were running harder than the HRM told them and the second sentence says that the runners reported easy effort while the HRM told them moderate effort.

        I typed it properly but not clearly.  The study as a whole showed that the runners were not training as hard as they thought;  however, one subject (the one I mentioned) bucked that trend and was running harder than she thought. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us make the case for a HRM to be used as a feedback tool to slow one down on recovery or easy days. Yes, but where is the data that supports the notion that recovery has to be at a specific % HRmax to improve running.  Is it 60%, 62.53%, or 70%? Does a runner not improve if recovery takes place slightly out of the "correct" %HRmax?  And supposing there is some magical number or optimal range at which one should recover, is an HRM necessary for a runner who has cycled a couple of times through hard days and recovery days to naturally fall into the individual optimal %HRmax range on a recovery run?

        I think that recovery is a critical aspect of training and would put forth the argument that it is the most critical phase of training since that is when adaptation and improvement occurs.  The training sessions are the stimulus for adaptation but the body needs time to adapt and recovery/regeneration is when that occurs.             I am not in the HRM as a necessary tool for runners, but I think the strength of the HRM when combined with an accurate MaxHR (leaving the formulae aside) can be useful to help the athlete find that proper level for recovery as well as running hard when one needs to.  If "recovery" runs are done at 80% of MaxHR, I would argue that those are not recovery runs and are even sneaking into that no man’s land that so many people spend time in:  a session that is too hard for recovery and too easy for LT or tempo.         Taking it one step farther, several researchers (Banister—not the miler) has been looking at using HR to assess what has been termed training impulse (TRIMP).  The math gets kinda complicated but the idea is that you can quantify training intensity by using HR.  One of the questions asked is something like:  Is a one hour tempo run as stressful as a two hour run that is 30 sec/mile slower but twice as long in terms of time?  TRIMP seeks to answer this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks again for the citations. — Patrick

Response:

Thanks for the references Sam.

Most thought they were running harder or at a higher intensity than the HR data showed.  One subject listed 3 sessions of 5 as being easy when the HR data showed that she (all the subjects were females who were runners although of various ability) was in fact running at a moderate intensity 60% of the time.

Did you type this right?  It appears contradictory. The first sentence says runners thought they were running harder than the HRM told them and the second sentence says that the runners reported easy effort while the HRM told them moderate effort. Many of us make the case for a HRM to be used as a feedback tool to slow one down on recovery or easy days.

Yes, but where is the data that supports the notion that recovery has to be at a specific % HRmax to improve running.  Is it 60%, 62.53%, or 70%?  Does a runner not improve if recovery takes place slightly out of the "correct" %HRmax?  And supposing there is some magical number or optimal range at which one should recover, is an HRM necessary for a runner who has cycled a couple of times through hard days and recovery days to naturally fall into the individual optimal %HRmax range on a recovery run? Thanks again for the citations. — Patrick

Response:

I hastily posted something that was a bit off…..typing faster than one’s brain will do that. In regards to %Vo2max and %maxHR, the most linear relationship is really in using %HRR and %VO2Reserve.  HRR is MaxHR-RestingHR.  To set intensity, one would decide on the % intensity, multiply it by HRR and add back in Resting HR.  So if I have a MaxHR of 180 and a Resting HR of 50 and want to work at 75% HRR: (180-50) * 0.75 + 50= 147.5 (148) VO2Reserve is VO2max-VO2rest.  Obviously VO2max differs but VO2rest is pretty stable at 3.5 ml/kg/min.  So if my VO2max is 60.5, then my VO2Reserve is 57.0.  The formula below will look similar to something you have seen before: (60.5-3.5) * 0.75 + 3.5 =  46.25 ml/kg/min Swain has shown this relationship of %HRR to %VO2Reserve to be a better match so that 75% of HRR = 75% VO2Reserve (at least pretty damn close). Swain, D.P. and Leutholtz, B.C.  Heart rate reserve is equivalent to %VO2Reserve, not to %VO2max.  Medicine and Science in Exercise and Sport. 29 (3):  410-414, 1997. Also, I found a couple of papers on using HR to set intensity.  Two studies published in the scientific journals showed that using HR set intensity better than using one’s perception or RPE.   Gilman is the author of both (although one is really a case study).   In the true study, Gilman found that runners using RPE overestimated the intensity for the most part.  Most thought they were running harder or at a higher intensity than the HR data showed.  One subject listed 3 sessions of 5 as being easy when the HR data showed that she (all the subjects were females who were runners although of various ability) was in fact running at a moderate intensity 60% of the time.  Many of us make the case for a HRM to be used as a feedback tool to slow one down on recovery or easy days. Gilman, M.B.  The use of heart rate to monitor the intensity of endurance training.  Sports Medicine.  1996 21(2):  73-79 Gilman, M.B. and Wells, C.L.  The use of heart rates to monitor exercise intensity in relation to metabolic variables.  International Journal of Sports Medicine.  1993 14:  339-344. Potteiger and Evans also found that using HR to set intensity resulted in intensities that more closely mimicked blood lactate values than RPE.   In the study, subjects were told to run at an intensity that matched the intensity that elicited a blood lactate concentration of 4.0 mmol/L (a common value used to delineate an increase in anaerobic metabolism) from a lab based treadmill test.  When the athletes ran based on RPE, the exercise intensity underestimated the metabolic responses.  When intensity was pegged to HR, the blood lactate values were similar to those found on the treadmill test. Potteiger, J.A. and Evans, B.W. Using heart rate and ratings of perceived exertion to monitor intensity in runners.  Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness 1995 35: 181-186. — A democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.

Response:

Question:

Are there any restrictions that would prevent someone from using a recumbant for an Ironman or half-Ironman? You’d give up some speed, but if you’re just there to finish, your legs, back, neck, and butt would be much fresher for the run. Any thoughts or sightings of such? Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Are there any restrictions that would prevent someone from using a recumbant for an Ironman or half-Ironman?

Recumbents are specifically banned from USAT sanctioned events. Charlie Crawford USAT Commissioner of Officials

Response:

Hi Dave, in Germany recumbants are not allowed in the bike leg of any triathlon. Best wishes Ulrich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any restrictions that would prevent someone from using a recumbant for an Ironman or half-Ironman? You’d give up some speed, but if you’re just there to finish, your legs, back, neck, and butt would be much fresher for the run. Any thoughts or sightings of such? Dave

Response:

I have never seen one in use in an Ironman, but in any event here are the USA Triathlon rules regarding bikes. 5.11 Bicycle Specifications. All bicycles and bicycle equipment used in USA Triathlon sanctioned events must conform to the specifications set forth in this Section. Any participant using a nonconforming bicycle or otherwise violating this Section shall be disqualified. (a) Length cannot exceed two meters, and width cannot exceed 75 centimeters. (b) The distance from the ground to the center of the chain wheel axle must measure at least 24 centimeters. (c) A vertical line touching the front most point of the saddle may be no more than 5 centimeters in front of and no more than 15 centimeters behind a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle, and the cyclist must not have the capability of adjusting the saddle beyond these limits during competition. (d) The "front-to-center" distance, which is defined as the distance between a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle and a vertical line passing through the center of the front axle, must measure not less than 54 centimeters and no more than 65 centimeters, except that in the case of bicycles for taller participants (where the distance between the center of the chain wheel axle and the top of the saddle is greater than 80 centimeters), the front-to-center distance cannot exceed 68 centimeters and, in the case of bicycles for shorter cyclists (where the distance between the center of the chain wheel axle and the top of the saddle is less than 71 centimeters), the front-to-center distance cannot be less than 50 centimeters. Applicability of the two foregoing exceptions is determined by measuring from a point on top of the saddle which is 14 centimeters behind the front most point of the saddle. (e) There must be no protective shield, fairing, or other device on any part of the bicycle (including frame, wheels, handlebars, chain wheel, and accessories) which has the effect of reducing resistance. Aerodynamic carriers for food, water, and or cycling provisions may be attached to or be an integral part of the aero-handlebars if they meet the following guidelines:      (i) the carrier can pass from front to rear, through a rectangular loop with      dimensions of 10 inches (25 cm) in width and 8 inches (20 cm) in height.      (ii) The front of the carrier is behind the cyclist’s hands when the hands are placed      in their customary position on the end of the aerobars, and      (iii) The length of the carrier is no greater than 10 inches (25 cm) front to rear. When the carrier is an integral part of the aerobar, this integrated unit must be able to pass through the rectangular loop defined in (i) above and the carrier portion of the unit must meet criteria (ii) and (iii). In the event that compliance with this section is in doubt with respect to any particular carrier or integrated unit, a member of USA Triathlon may submit the carrier or integrated unit to USA Triathlon for evaluation. (f) No additional equipment, whether it is worn under the competitor’s clothing, over the competitors clothing, or is otherwise attached to the athlete’s body, which has the effect of reducing wind resistance is permitted. An exception is the use of safety helmets as described in Section 5.9. Such helmets may have the effect of reducing the wind resistance of the head only. (g) Except as otherwise determined by the race director in the interest of safety, the front wheel may be of a different diameter than the rear wheel, but the front wheel must be of spoke construction. The rear wheel may be either spoke or solid construction. Wheel covers shall only be permitted on the rear wheel. (h) No wheel may contain any mechanism, which is capable of accelerating the wheel. (i) Handlebars and stem must be fashioned to prevent any danger. All handlebar ends must be solidly plugged to lessen the possibility of injury. (j) There must be one working brake on each of the two wheels. (k) All aspects of the bicycle must be safe to the user and to other participants in the event. Minimum safety standards include, but are not limited to, properly glued and sealed tires, tight headset and handlebars, and true wheels. 5.12 Untraditional or Unusual Bicycle Equipment. Any unusual bicycle construction or equipment to which the specifications in Section 5.11 cannot easily be applied shall be illegal unless prior approval is received from the Head Referee before the equipment is used in the event. Any violation of this Section shall result in disqualification.

Response:

Question:

I have 3 weeks of vacation starting around 22nd of March 2000. Where is the best place in USA to get prepared for next summer triathlons? That means a nice climate, a lot of hills for the bike training, forests for running? Gerry

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I have 3 weeks of vacation starting around 22nd of March 2000. Where is the best place in USA to get prepared for next summer triathlons? That means a nice climate, a lot of hills for the bike training, forests for running? Gerry

I haven’t been there yet (will be in May), but San Diego seems to offer the perfect weather for triathlon training. It’s usually around 75F (25C) all year long, with not much rain all year. OTOH, it’s a meteorologist’s worst nightmare…endless sunny days are very boring to them.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Sounds great!  But is there hills? Gerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have 3 weeks of vacation starting around 22nd of March 2000. Where is the best place in USA to get prepared for next summer triathlons? That means a nice climate, a lot of hills for the bike training, forests for running? Gerry I haven’t been there yet (will be in May), but San Diego seems to offer the perfect weather for triathlon training. It’s usually around 75F (25C) all year long, with not much rain all year. OTOH, it’s a meteorologist’s worst nightmare…endless sunny days are very boring to them.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Sounds great!  But is there hills? Gerry

Yes you’ll find hills there and trees.  But if you’re looking for a nice cool dense forest you’ll be a little disappointed.  Hard to find it all and still be sure of good weather to take advantage of it everyday. Yakabo Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds great!  But is there hills? Gerry Yes you’ll find hills there and trees.  But if you’re looking for a nice cool dense forest you’ll be a little disappointed.  Hard to find it all and still be sure of good weather to take advantage of it everyday. Yakabo Before you buy.

Hi, This used to be a ride that I enjoyed. Its been 10 years since I lived in San Diego but I did live there for 28 years.  I used to ride my bike up Highway 67 through Ramona andSanta Ysabel(where there is a bakery named Dudley’s) to Julian. You will have to check out a map to see if the road is still named Highway 67.  My memory might have failed me.  Santa Ysabel is all of about three buildings so you cant miss the bakery.  Out of Julien going into the desert there is a steep switchbacked downhill.  Riding back up the hill is definitely a challenge.  We used to spend the night at a campground in the desert called Butterfield Ranch.  Someone had to drive and tow the travel trailer for the overnight. A ride from the coast to Julian and back would be about 70 miles with about 4000 feet of elevation change.  Hopefully, the traffic is not so bad now that all the fun has been taken out of it. Chip

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I’m gearing up for my first tri (SF int’l in Apr) and am looking for sites with specific training regimens, kind of like what Kick! has for running. Anybody know of any good ones? Thanks in advance. Ron "if I keep going the sooner I’ll die and it’ll all be over with" Gilcreast

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I’m gearing up for my first tri (SF int’l in Apr) and am looking for sites with specific training regimens, kind of like what Kick! has for running. Anybody know of any good ones? Thanks in advance. Ron "if I keep going the sooner I’ll die and it’ll all be over with" Gilcreast

http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I recently got the idea of triathlon put into my head.  I’m an experienced biker and my running and swimming are in good form, if not extremely fast. I can’t figure out how to properly train in three events without burning myself out.  Are there any good resources for this type of information? I’ve looked at a number of web pages, but haven’t found any good specifics yet. –Chris

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I am new also, and have found a lot of great information not only in this website but in Triathlete magazine which I know subscribe to.  Good luck

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I am new also, and have found a lot of great information not only in this website but in Triathlete magazine which I know subscribe to.  Good luck

Not only in WHAT website? What is the name of the book? Your post is like smelling the steak on the BBQ but not being allowed to partake  ;) –Chris

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I reserved every book in the library with "triathlon" in the title.  Lots of reading, some out-of-date but interesting data, and tons of help for getting into a training groove. Sara Livingston ’cause I’m cheap, the library’s only a mile away and they’re online

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Question:

Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx!

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Try Fleet Feet in Columbia Heights!  They know what they’re doing there! Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx!

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Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx!

  Fleet Feet. Several locations.

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Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx!

Either of the Fleet Feet stores, one in Adams Morgan (18th & Colombia, NW) or Falls Church VA.  Great stores with running staff.  The guy who runs the Adams Morgan store also does triathlon.  That store hosts runs every Sunday morning (10 milers, I think).

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Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx!

There are two very good running stores in the Washington area, both of them with multiple locations. One is called Fleet Feet, the other is Racquet & Jog. If you’re going to be in the Alexandria, VA area, there’s a store there called Pacers, which is also very good. J. Brinkley

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Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx! There are two very good running stores in the Washington area, both of them with multiple locations. One is called Fleet Feet, the other is Racquet & Jog. If you’re going to be in the Alexandria, VA area, there’s a store there called Pacers, which is also very good.

I was just going to say the same thing.  Last weekend I got some shoes from Racquet and Jog in Bethesda, MD (4959 Elm st, if you care).  The sales staff was very helpful and patient as I went through about 10 different pairs of shoes. Jeff

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Try Fleet Feet in Columbia Heights!  They know what they’re doing there!

Fleet Feet also has a store in Springfield, VA.  Very helpful staff. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you know a good running shoe store? My friends would really like to find a place that know how to fit them with a good pair of shoes. thx!

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Question:

What does R.S.T think of this kind of Triathlon.  Do many of you own Rollerblades? Jamie Sarkisian Sark Products 206 Jerico Hill Road Waltham MA 02154 617-647-9777

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I think its always fun to do something different Bruce Platt

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What does R.S.T think of this kind of Triathlon.  Do many of you own Rollerblades?

I think Tri-Maryland had a rollerblade/bike/run event in Columbia, MD this past fall. I remember seeing it in one of their flyers last spring, but didn’t follow up to see if it actually happened. My legs ache just thinking about it… Jordan

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In a recent post I referred to candidates for TriFed as follows: They have my respect for throwing their hats in the ring.  They are honest, dedicated people who believe in what they are doing.  Alot of those types went to Vietnam too. Why the after thought?  How could I explain it if anyone asked?  A splendid question.  It had nothing to do with the issue.  Why the issue? The issue had grown out of all proportion within me.  After a long night I realized the after thought has everything to do with what I am doing. On the internet I learned about the death at Mrs. T’s.  Everybody is upset and I am really upset.  I made a few posts.  There are risks but this shouldn’t happen in a sport that has become a way of life to me. It’s not right, its not fair.  To me triathlon is a pleasant refuge where things are fair. My interest in fairness grew to compulsion.  Something totally unfair had intruded on my fair world.  I lashed out at the lottery, the Ironman travel policy.  My comments were out of the general context of enjoyable chit chat of RST.  I started looking inward again and traded some private thoughts with someone through RST.  Thanks so much for the help. Understanding is a great revelation.  Why I do Ironman?  Laying on the massage table in Kona I had my one and only flashback.  Tropic air, the smell of the medical tent, IV’s.  It was the Danang Hospital.  Battered bodies on triage tables.  But in Kona we all get up and celebrate the next day.  What a fantastic sport.  I had thought I found my personal reason for seeking the Ironman experience as well as some of that same experience in any triathlon. Today I know the reason.  I have played out an old war on a fair field of my choice.  Gave as much and won this time.  Death intruded, unfairness again beyond my control and the associated reaction.  Now a new learning and a reconciliation with the past.  Took along time. Its over. It is a great sport but not my refuge anymore, not where I will play out the past or compensate for what I don’t like about the present.  It is part of life, a better part I like and want to improve when and where I can.  Not a profound close but the beauty is really in a new beginning, a devil that is gone and a balance recovered.   Going out to train for awhile with a new outlook.  Motivated by what is ahead not behind. Growing old ain’t for wimps.

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This guy and Ruth should get together and write motivational and insprational essays for triathletes-kinda like what Sheehan did for runners.  Good stuff-keeps me goin!  Cheryl

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This past weekend I participated in my second half ironman race in Collingwood Ontario Canada. Lat years race was brutally windy and emotionally devastating for me. I was hoping for great things this year.   The 1900m swim in the harbour, in Georgian Bay of Lake Huron was better than last year, essentially no waves and somewhat less cold. With much help from my new QR fullsuit, I shaved off 6minutes from my swim split of last year. Iwas really stoked for a great race. I even managed to RACE a few fellow swimmers. 38 min isn’t fast but I was happy with the time. T1 was a little slow. I seem to have lost my breath in the transition zone and had trouble finding it.   The course is mega hilly. The infamous Eliminator is a 5km log of average 7% grade. Several sections are over 10%. There is another hill section also of 5km at 3% average grade, this includes a short downhill between the two main sections. This hill is part of a 20km loop done twice. Te rest of the couse is notable for constant rolling hills, half of them short, about 20-50ft high, with the other half being 75-150ft high. I estimate the total climbing to be around 3000ft. The wind this year was slightly less than the gusting to 40mph of last year but the temp and humidity was much higher. I tried to take it easy on the bike to save something for the run, however, when you’re out of the saddle in a stump puller gear, grinding hard, it’s hard to remember you’re taking it easy. Even at 4mph! I gave up all the swim time I’d saved to the bike split plus an extra minute. No big deal since I was actually ably to run out of the transition zone to the run course. Last year was a grimmacing wobble at best.  I managed to hook up with a local big time disc jockey that also races tris. I used to listen to him years ago so used his slightly slower pace to chat for a while to save some energy and try to avoid hitting the wall. He is absolutely hilarious. We had to stop several times because we were laughing so hard. We must have looked quite a sight. The pace that felt easy at first became more difficult as the heat and humidity rose. Almost half the run course is on an abandonned rail line, now a   running/waking/biking trail. The sufrace was perfectly flat but of a white gravel. It reflected alota heat. We also hooked up with another racer/participant. Both the others had been to the worlds in wellington as competitors last year so I was in good company. The DJ (Jesse Dylan of Toronto had just moved up from olympic distance and also recovering from a bad back. Libby Brown finished 18th in the women 35-39 in Wellington (if I remember correctly) She was recovering from a broken Sternum suffered in a car accident only 6 weeks ago. Her breating was pretty restricted. She was a real trooper and kept going well. I had given up all hope of beating last years time and simply was enjoying the company and not suffering alone. We then had one other participant join us in the last few km. We all crossed the line together and tied for last place in 6 hour 34 min.   I think I could have gone a little faster but would have to have really punished myself to do it. I am doing the Esprit iroman Triathlon on a few weeks so didn’t want to kill myself too much. I was only 1 minute over last years time but felt a huge amount better. Last year I was an emotional and physical wreck. This year I was able to walk around the campsite that evening, go for a cool off dip in the lake and even fetch my own beer. I din’t do as well as I’d hoped but was quite happy with the condition I finished in. There were lots of positives and only a few negatives. I can’t believe how much I enjoyed such a difficult race, I must be getting addicted to this sport or something.   If you want a real test of your fitness on a very challenging course, I highly recommend Collingwood. The Race is put on by the National Ski Academy and they do a good job. TriDork

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I was a speedskater (ice, the kind you Canadians understand) here in the U.S. in the 1980s and often placed in races.  I even skated nationals twice. Now, in Canada, I know this would be a big deal, even in the Masters division where the numbers involved start to thin out.  But in the U.S., there were so few Masters speedskaters that virtually anyone could qualify to skate in Nationals from their state if they want to. Thus, I had no illusions that I was any good when I took places in meets or skated nationals.  But, like you, it was fun to be able to tell people that I was "a nationals skater" and that I laced up my skates alongside Bonnis Blair! The real rub here is numbers of participants.  Both triathlon and speedskating need more numbers.  We need to us our Olympic funds here in the U.S. (and you need to use similar funds in Canada) for programs that foster junior participation.  More triathletes will cut our chances the chances of "not so great" athletes such as us placing, but it will be "oh so good" for our sport.

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: This past weekend I participated in my second half ironman race in : Collingwood Ontario Canada. Lat years race was brutally windy and : emotionally devastating for me. I was hoping for great things this year. I raced in Collingwood also. Last year was also emotionally devastating for me. My quads bonked during the bike and I suffered throughout the whole run. This year was a different story. I improved my time by over 10 minutes. My swim was slower by two minutes. Last year I drafted well and was very happy with a time of 34 minutes. this year I swam by myself, straight between the markers. the packs of swimmers were all off to the side and they must have swam an extra 100m or so.  this is a good indication that you should draft  during the swim evenif the draftee is swimming slightly off course rather than on your own. As Marcus indicated the bike course is very tough. I was doing quite well climbing the Eliminator until I flatted. What a pain!! After a quick change, I hammered the next 30km. Having a flat is a great motivator to go hard! The run is flat and fast and this was the most satisfying part of my race.I felt great andmy pace way consistent. My 5km splits were between 23-25:15 minutes. What a difference a year makes. All the hard work is paying off. The following day I watched the Kids of Steel race in collingwood. Marcus’s son raced. He is a good runner. His dad will haveto start doing trackworkouts with him. TriFiend

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participated in my second half ironman race in : Collingwood Ontario stuff deleted : TriDork  I was out for a ride last nigh in my shirt from the Collingwood race. As I was wiping perspiration from my  brow, with the sleeve, I noticed on the arm of the shirt that the Collingwood race was the National Long Course Champioships! Even though I finished dead last (pretty sure), I still managed 14th in my age group. Last year with more competitors, I finished last in my age group, (*but not overall) in 19th place. 2 guys from last year dropped out of the race so it was really 19 of 21. I mangaged to rationalize to MYSELF (at least) that I’m now the 14th fastest 30-34 year old male in Canada over the 1/2 ironman distance!!!!   Don’t ya just love statistics? The other thing is that even though I was slower than last year, I’m still an improved performer, 14th vs 19th.  At this rate, in four more years I could very well win my division, with ever increasing times. I can hardly wait!!  Either I’m actually getting better, or I was simply riding too hard last night on my ride and was merely getting flashbacks to the 70’s. I should pace myself a little better on my next ride. Maybe that’ll help with my transient delusions. TriDork

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JJSJ writes of magazine goings-on * BTW: I heard a rumor(s) from semi-reliable source(s) that Rodale Press (was likely to buy Triathlete) and asked for rumor confirmations or denials.

Well, JJSJ sounds like you may be counting me as one of your semi-reliable sources, because your post comes a day after I e-mailed you such "information." I’m so touched that you think of me that way. From all I hear, this sounds quite probable. I know that Rodale has kept a very close eye on Triathlete for the last few years, always waiting for the right moment to step in and — to be quite honest — save the magazine from complete extinction. Sounds like, with all the current staff turmoil, the time might be closer than we think (now that we’re past the "first of the year"). My *guess* is that we won’t see a February issue in this time of transition (so Triathlete won’t be following Inside Triathlon’s leap to 12x-ayear, as Jean Claude Garot had hoped). Personally, I would be thrilled if Triathlete ended up in the Rodale fold. With all their resources and credibility in magazine publishing, they would do amazing things for both the magazine and the sport. It would put the magazine in most deserving hands. (And, on the matter of Katovsky’s mudslinging at Inside Tri, his former employer, over a miscaptioned cover photo, the ultimate irony was that, as editor of that issue, Katovsky was (I assume) the ultimately responsible party for that error!). Oh, dear, I, too, am vowing in ‘95 and beyond to "say only nice things about other people" and this comment strays a bit …

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Come on Jeffrey tell how you really feel. bob tanski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think Triathlete led the publishing industry for miscaptioned photos for the past three years, thanks to its triathlon-ignorant, pseudo artsy-fartsy (and  non-English speaking) art department in Brussels Belgium.

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Re: 220 Magazine 180 sounds like a good name. How about the "180 Newsletter"…<<<

No, no, no Dr. Maffetone, that’s way too casual….but I’ll tell you this… so far no one has got it exactly right… * BTW: I heard a rumor(s) from semi-reliable source(s) that Rodale Press publishers of  Runner’s World, Bicycling, Prevention [remember when that was a actually a cutting edge health magazine, about 20 years ago?], Men’s Health etc.. etc., is considering buying Triathlete Magazine from   Jean Claude Garot… That would be interesting, at the very least it would push Garot out of the picture for good and the US tri publications back into American control. Can anyone confirm (or deny) this? SZAG? Baringo? Also in response to the Steve Patt’s "Triathlete insults age-groupers" post. Yes it did. Sadly, Editor Katovsky cares very little for the age-group triathlete as he serves, mostly, as a bagman for the boys down town. The survivors of his dwindling editorial staff are raw rookies and don’t even know how to keep score yet, let alone edit his prose. And it’s pretty amazing that he would dare sling some mud at Inside Triathlon for a miscaptioned photo. If Inside Triathlon wanted to they could have thrown more than one rock right back at Katovsky’s fragile glass house.  I think Triathlete led the publishing industry for miscaptioned photos for the past three years, thanks to its triathlon-ignorant, pseudo artsy-fartsy (and  non-English speaking) art department in Brussels Belgium. Damn! I already strayed from my first 1995 resolution. Jeffrey Justice

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Re: 220 Magazine 180 sounds like a good name. How about the "180 Newsletter"… Philip Maffetone p.s. 220 minus age results in the max hr in only about 33% of athletes when compared to actual tests. About a third come up with a higher rate, and a third, a lower number.

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Steve Patt writes: Although the name is kind of an "in" thing once you know it,

personally I always found it a bit of a strange choice. I mean, if you are not familiar with the magazine, and you see it on the newstand, it seems to me your liklihood of picking it up is a lot less. Unless, of course, they feature DeSoto models on the cover.<< Godd point, but 220 will not be on newsstands everywhere, at least not for quite awhile. It will be available by subscription and at leading bike shops, running shops or tri shops. As far as the name… discuss among yourselves. But if it is indeed related to the  220 HR theory, what would our Dr. Maffetone think? Would we have to change the name to 180? JJ JJ

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Jim Miller asks about the name 220. The British parent magazine is named after the theoretical (?) maximum heart rate at birth, 220 bpm (as in, "estimate your MHR by calculating 220 minus your age"). This kind of magazine naming seems to be big in Europe – there’s a French running magazine named VO2. Although the name is kind of an "in" thing once you know it, personally I always found it a bit of a strange choice. I mean, if you are not familiar with the magazine, and you see it on the newstand, it seems to me your liklihood of picking it up is a lot less. Unless, of course, they feature DeSoto models on the cover. * Steve Patt                                                    * *   The Athlete’s Diary for Windows, Macintosh, and DOS         * *  "Get more out of your log than you put into it"              * This message was sent from CityNet, Inc.

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