Question:

Thanks for the reply, Rob.  I always enjoy reading your posts here. Actually, biking is hurting more than running right now.  I need to raise the seat as high as I can so that load on the knee is in the least bent position possible. Any hope of beating diabetes?  Cures on the horizon?

: : Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst : fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, : "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking : as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming. What : else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you : can do." : : Brian, : : Unlike Eduardo’s prediction, I won’t suggest you drop your doctor. On : the other hand, I would suggest that you get a second opinion from a : sports medicine specialist. While I wouldn’t bet the house on it, : there may be a way to salvage something – perhaps just the cycling, : but at least it’s something. : : I disagree with your physician for saying "That’s just it – there : isn’t anything else you can do." There are things. : : Race walking does a lot to protect the knee and hip joints. Ok, it : looks stupid as all getout. But who knows – maybe you’ll get good at : it and become famous in Europe! There are other aerobic exercises : available as well. A sports medicine specialist will know these and : help you. : : Finally, I will agree with Eduardo on one point. Some of us can’t get : back to running no matter what. As a diabetic, my two biggest fears : are diabetic neuropathy of the feet and diabetic retinopathy. I’ve : started training for a triathlon, and while it started out as a way to : try to lose the weight that marathons alone won’t get rid of, I now : realize that it’s preparing me for the day when I have to first give : up running and then biking. Swimming, which I’m terrible at right now, : is something that I can hang onto. : : With any luck, that will be in my 110s, but who knows? : : Rob

Response:

VMO is the fourth muscle in quad.  It’s on the inside of the leg, just above the knee.  Apparently, runners have this problem from time-to-time.  Running develops the outside quad, but not the VMO.

: : Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst : fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, : "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking : as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming. What : else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you : can do." : : Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and I’ve : already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE : running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years now. : But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse until : I can’t even walk. : : And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He : knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he : relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of : stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my : knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help : lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, : arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month : recovery period, but no guarantees. : : Whats your VMO? I have a turned out leg that I’ve had my : entire life. Justwondering if you’re talking about a similar : situation? : : ~Matt : : : I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being : one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc. This : just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots : too before I give up. : : Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. : : Peace, : Brian : : :

Response:

Thanks for all the suggestions- I’m still giving some thought to all this. I know I can’t rollerblade- the doc says that with the knee position, I’ll be doing damage.  But roller skis?  Hmmmm… Thanks again!

: What a nightmare.  I recommend that you keep pushing your body short : of increasing joint wear. : : How about roller skis?  The xcountry skiers seem to have very little : knee flex.  We have this paved bike path system that would be perfect : for roller skis and they have become quite sophisticated in Austria, : Switzerland and Scandinavia where the pros train year round. : : Cross country skiing offers at least as great a workout as running or : cycling without the knee flex of either.  Perhaps some scandinavians : with worn knees could advise on this. : : Also, can you do long walks?  Hiking in the hills can be a great : challenge. : : If you get the surgery and do the rehab and avoid running and cycling : then you might get decades of activity.  BTW, you could even accompany : cyclists with roller skis.  Make sure you find someone who can advise : you how to avoid futher wear, esp. through work on flexibility, muscle : balance and form. : : For winter training, the indoor ski trainers would work, as would : nordic skiing if you have access. : :

: Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst : fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, : "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking : as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming. What : else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you : can do." : : Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and I’ve : already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE : running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years now. : But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse until : I can’t even walk. : : And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He : knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he : relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of : stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my : knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help : lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, : arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month : recovery period, but no guarantees. : : I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being : one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc. This : just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots : too before I give up. : : Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. : : Peace, : Brian

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Her doctor finally told her last year that some people have Midas knees, some have Goodyear, some Cooper.  "You," he said, "didn’t even get Kmart knees." This, unfortunately, is an admission rarely made around these parts. It seems that in the estimation of many rec.running congregants, knee problems invariably result from negligence and/or ignorance on the part of the knee owner. You are not alone: Supposedly one only has foot problems because one always wore shoes, didn’t run enough on soft surfaces with bare feet, hammered ones feet flat with high impact heel strikes and is overweight. But if you train properly, reduce your shoes to a bare minimum, and land ball/midfoot all will be well and natures clock will be turned back. Or so. :-} Yup, I suspect a lot of the folklore in this newgroup has led to greater injuries for many people. But it’s so engrained here that it’s heresy to challenge the doctrine of rr and ultimately an exercise in futility.

In the fat burning zone?

Response:

: Hi, Brian, : : : Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst : fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, : "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking : as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming. What : else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you : can do." : : [snip] : : Bummer, is something going around? The spurs are not good and you’re right : they can cause some additional damage if they continue to grow. IMHO, the : bone shaving might help short term but the realignment is more important. But I wonder if stretching and strengthening the VMO will help realign?  I sure hope so. : : While the physician is doing the evaluation, would this be a good time to : help out at events or would that just be painful? I know, it’s not the same : but with your background, you’d be a great person to have around and could : really help a lot of people. FWIW, don’t give up yet (and I don’t think that : you would). Yeah, no giving up yet.  I may just do the helping out thing- thanks for the suggestion! : : Bummer. : : Hang in, : Layne : Thanks again, Brian : The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running : :

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Her doctor finally told her last year that some people have Midas knees, some have Goodyear, some Cooper.  "You," he said, "didn’t even get Kmart knees." This, unfortunately, is an admission rarely made around these parts. It seems that in the estimation of many rec.running congregants, knee problems invariably result from negligence and/or ignorance on the part of the knee owner. You are not alone: Supposedly one only has foot problems because one always wore shoes, didn’t run enough on soft surfaces with bare feet, hammered ones feet flat with high impact heel strikes and is overweight. But if you train properly, reduce your shoes to a bare minimum, and land ball/midfoot all will be well and natures clock will be turned back. Or so. :-}

Yup, I suspect a lot of the folklore in this newgroup has led to greater injuries for many people. But it’s so engrained here that it’s heresy to challenge the doctrine of rr and ultimately an exercise in futility.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming.  What else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you can do." Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and I’ve already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years now. But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse until I can’t even walk. And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month recovery period, but no guarantees.

        Whats your VMO? I have a turned out leg that I’ve had my entire life. Justwondering if you’re talking about a similar situation? ~Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc.  This just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up. Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. Peace, Brian

Response:

not be optimally built–or even close to it–for running. Maybe exercise must come in another form for some of us. ES: I had a friend who was quite athletic in HS and college, and a bit less so afterward, who has had constant problems with her knees.  Her doctor finally told her last year that some people have Midas knees, some have Goodyear, some Cooper.  "You," he said, "didn’t even get Kmart knees." Brian Jones

Response:

may not be optimally built–or even close to it–for running. Maybe exercise must come in another form for some of us. ES: I had a friend who was quite athletic in HS and college, and a bit less so afterward, who has had constant problems with her knees.  Her doctor finally told her last year that some people have Midas knees, some have Goodyear, some Cooper.  "You," he said, "didn’t even get Kmart knees."

This, unfortunately, is an admission rarely made around these parts. It seems that in the estimation of many rec.running congregants, knee problems invariably result from negligence and/or ignorance on the part of the knee owner. To those who can make simple (or drastic) form changes or can otherwise appease their knees with, say, a new type of shoe, I say this: count your blessings–both of them. — Eduardo Suastegui "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (remove ‘701′ when replying via e-mail)

Response:

What a nightmare.  I recommend that you keep pushing your body short of increasing joint wear. How about roller skis?  The xcountry skiers seem to have very little knee flex.  We have this paved bike path system that would be perfect for roller skis and they have become quite sophisticated in Austria, Switzerland and Scandinavia where the pros train year round. Cross country skiing offers at least as great a workout as running or cycling without the knee flex of either.  Perhaps some scandinavians with worn knees could advise on this. Also, can you do long walks?  Hiking in the hills can be a great challenge. If you get the surgery and do the rehab and avoid running and cycling then you might get decades of activity.  BTW, you could even accompany cyclists with roller skis.  Make sure you find someone who can advise you how to avoid futher wear, esp. through work on flexibility, muscle balance and form. For winter training, the indoor ski trainers would work, as would nordic skiing if you have access. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming.  What else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you can do." Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and I’ve already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years now. But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse until I can’t even walk. And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month recovery period, but no guarantees. I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc.  This just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up. Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. Peace, Brian

Response:

Her doctor finally told her last year that some people have Midas knees, some have Goodyear, some Cooper.  "You," he said, "didn’t even get Kmart knees." This, unfortunately, is an admission rarely made around these parts. It seems that in the estimation of many rec.running congregants, knee problems invariably result from negligence and/or ignorance on the part of the knee owner.

You are not alone: Supposedly one only has foot problems because one always wore shoes, didn’t run enough on soft surfaces with bare feet, hammered ones feet flat with high impact heel strikes and is overweight. But if you train properly, reduce your shoes to a bare minimum, and land ball/midfoot all will be well and natures clock will be turned back. Or so. :-} Whenever I get down because my body just won’t work as my ambition would have it to, I now think of that small, slightly overweight female ultra runner with very visibly arthritic feet I saw at that 24-hour run in Apeldoorn: Slow, plodding, hurting – but smiling and waving to whoever cheered her on – she did keep moving. A champion in her own right. Gabriele

Response:

You are not alone: Supposedly one only has foot problems because one always wore shoes, didn’t run enough on soft surfaces with bare feet, hammered ones feet flat with high impact heel strikes and is overweight. But if you train properly, reduce your shoes to a bare minimum,

Interesting stuff about getting your shoes to a bare minumum, because as of late I’ve been wondering how many of the injuries we read about here are CAUSED by shoes. So much goes into "motion control" and padding, I sometimes wonder how ancient man ever managed to run. I never heard of a caveman with prosthetics. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Hi, Brian, Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming.  What else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you can do."

[snip] Bummer, is something going around? The spurs are not good and you’re right they can cause some additional damage if they continue to grow. IMHO, the bone shaving might help short term but the realignment is more important. While the physician is doing the evaluation, would this be a good time to help out at events or would that just be painful? I know, it’s not the same but with your background, you’d be a great person to have around and could really help a lot of people. FWIW, don’t give up yet (and I don’t think that you would). Bummer. Hang in, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

1) Drop your doctor.

The Dr is a dork, good advice. If he claims he is, he is a liar too. 2) Your quads are too tight. Have you ever massaged and stretched them properly?

Roger and JimBlow will massage you for free, but be prepared for a FULL BODY massage. 3) There’s obviously something wrong with your form. This is what happens when someone runs with incorrect form for years on end, banging their joints, etc, etc, etc.

More truth! Sometimes I see people flailing away like acrobats and I want to grab them and say "LOOK AT MY FORM, DO THIS!!!" and ironiclly these are the same ones who tell me I have a tight, effficent running form. They just don’t know they are using bad form, the picture of them in their mind wouldn’t match a video of them running, which is actually a good idea. 4) The shoes. It’s gotta be them shoes. Go to a real running store. They’ll fix you right up.

Certainly another strong candidate. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

: Let me predict–and hopefully preempt–some of the responses you are likely : to get: : : 1) Drop your doctor. Obviously he’s not a runner and might even be : running-phobic. (That whole bit about him being a doc for a triathlon team? : I either didn’t bother to read it, or he’s an impostor.) Thanks for the "heads-up."  Yeah, he’s a runner.  And he hated having to give me the news. : 2) Your quads are too tight. Have you ever massaged and stretched them : properly? All the time.  30 minutes per day, now. : : 3) There’s obviously something wrong with your form. This is what happens : when someone runs with incorrect form for years on end, banging their : joints, etc, etc, etc. My form wasn’t the best, but it’s very good now. :    3a) Did your doctor analyze your gait and give you improvement : recommendations? :    3b) Your cadence obviously isn’t 180 steps/min. :    3c) Drop heel-striking. Rest up a bit and try ball-heel. :    3d) You aren’t breathing right. All of those taken care of.  I’m even at 180 steps now. : : 4) The shoes. It’s gotta be them shoes. Go to a real running store. They’ll : fix you right up. Had tons of shoes.  Could afford a car on the experimentation I’ve done. Got the right ones now. : : My observation? We’re *not* all created [physically] equal. It’s possible, : just maybe, that some of us may not be optimally built–or even close to : it–for running. Maybe exercise must come in another form for some of us. : Possibly–perish the heretical thought–many fall in this category. Lately, : I’m personally considering whether health–and being in pain isn’t : healthy–and not achievement in a specific sport should take pre-eminence : when it comes to my participation in the "fit life." I agree 100%.  Thanks again- hopefully we’ve headed off some of the off-the-cuff advice I would have gotten.  You right- quality of future life is more important than excelling in the next 5 K.  I’d like to use this body to it’s fullest till God’s ready to take it from me, you know? Peace, Brian : : — : Eduardo Suastegui : "Test everything. Hold on to the good." : (remove ‘701′ when replying via e-mail) :

: Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst : fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, : "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking : as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming. What : else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else : you : can do." : : Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and : I’ve : already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE : running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years : now. : But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse : until : I can’t even walk. : : And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He : knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he : relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of : stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my : knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help : lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After : that, : arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month : recovery period, but no guarantees. : : I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking : being : one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc. : This : just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots : too before I give up. : : Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. : : Peace, : Brian : : : :

Response:

Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming.  What else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you can do."

Brian, Unlike Eduardo’s prediction, I won’t suggest you drop your doctor. On the other hand, I would suggest that you get a second opinion from a sports medicine specialist. While I wouldn’t bet the house on it, there may be a way to salvage something – perhaps just the cycling, but at least it’s something. I disagree with your physician for saying "That’s just it – there isn’t anything else you can do." There are things. Race walking does a lot to protect the knee and hip joints. Ok, it looks stupid as all getout. But who knows – maybe you’ll get good at it and become famous in Europe! There are other aerobic exercises available as well. A sports medicine specialist will know these and help you. Finally, I will agree with Eduardo on one point. Some of us can’t get back to running no matter what. As a diabetic, my two biggest fears are diabetic neuropathy of the feet and diabetic retinopathy. I’ve started training for a triathlon, and while it started out as a way to try to lose the weight that marathons alone won’t get rid of, I now realize that it’s preparing me for the day when I have to first give up running and then biking. Swimming, which I’m terrible at right now, is something that I can hang onto. With any luck, that will be in my 110s, but who knows? Rob

Response:

I’d like to use this body to it’s fullest till God’s ready to take it from mE

Next tues at 11:26am, a brain tumor will kill you without warning. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up. Try a chiropractor, he/she can possibly align your knees NOW before any further damage is done, and give you proper exercises to keep them that way. ask Jim-blow for his chiros phone number.

http://www.chirobase.org/

Response:

Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming.  What else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you can do." Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and I’ve already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years now. But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse until I can’t even walk. And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month recovery period, but no guarantees. I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc.  This just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up. Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. Peace, Brian

Response:

What a pity,  <huge, absolutely massive, split my face, grin  especially after you’d just gone to all that trouble to killfile me, Robot and young Jimbo. The curse of the trolls lies upon you.

Response:

I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc.  This just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up.

Strength and the best of luck to you. Please do keep us up-to-date. Gabriele

Response:

I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month recovery period, but no guarantees.

Augh, Brian, what a bummer. Hang on to this chance. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that it’ll work for you. Remember – "failure only starts once you give up trying to succeed." Best of luck, nina

Response:

But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up.

Try a chiropractor, he/she can possibly align your knees NOW before any further damage is done, and give you proper exercises to keep them that way. ask Jim-blow for his chiros phone number. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

The curse of the trolls lies upon you.

You’re not supposed to tell, it’s on page 35, paragraph 8 of our handbook. You’ve broken troll rules and must be punished. I’ll convene a tribuneral, and when we decided your punishment I’ll let you know. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Let me predict–and hopefully preempt–some of the responses you are likely to get: 1) Drop your doctor. Obviously he’s not a runner and might even be running-phobic. (That whole bit about him being a doc for a triathlon team? I either didn’t bother to read it, or he’s an impostor.) 2) Your quads are too tight. Have you ever massaged and stretched them properly? 3) There’s obviously something wrong with your form. This is what happens when someone runs with incorrect form for years on end, banging their joints, etc, etc, etc.    3a) Did your doctor analyze your gait and give you improvement recommendations?    3b) Your cadence obviously isn’t 180 steps/min.    3c) Drop heel-striking. Rest up a bit and try ball-heel.    3d) You aren’t breathing right. 4) The shoes. It’s gotta be them shoes. Go to a real running store. They’ll fix you right up. My observation? We’re *not* all created [physically] equal. It’s possible, just maybe, that some of us may not be optimally built–or even close to it–for running. Maybe exercise must come in another form for some of us. Possibly–perish the heretical thought–many fall in this category. Lately, I’m personally considering whether health–and being in pain isn’t healthy–and not achievement in a specific sport should take pre-eminence when it comes to my participation in the "fit life." — Eduardo Suastegui "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (remove ‘701′ when replying via e-mail)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all!  I went to the Orthopaedic Doc Tuesday.  He confirmed my worst fears.  After X-Rays and listening to my knees creak and crack, he said, "Long-term, you’re gonna have to find something besides running and biking as your main source of aerobic exercise."  I said, "I hate swimming.  What else is there?"  His answer, "That’s just it- there isn’t anything else you can do." Apparently my knees are so out of whack that spurs are growing now and I’ve already caused considerable damage.  God, I can’t believe this.  I LOVE running.  And biking.  I’ve been doing triathlons for a couple of years now. But if I keep it up, the pain I feel all the time will just get worse until I can’t even walk. And the thing is- this guy used to be the doc for a triathlon team.  He knows his stuff.  I pleaded, cajoled and almost cried, I think.  So he relented a bit.  I run and bike for 8-10 more weeks, while doing tons of stretching and try to strengthen my VMO muscle.  If it doesn’t re-align my knees, I can get injections (3 every 2 weeks in each knee) which will help lubricate the joints, but won’t last more than 6 months or so.  After that, arthroscopic surgery could shave some bone and MAY work, with a 3 month recovery period, but no guarantees. I’m in hell.  I’ve built my life around 3 major things- running/biking being one of them.  I love challenging myself.  Going farther, faster, etc. This just totally bites.  But I’m doing the stretching.  Bet I’ll get the shots too before I give up. Thanks for listening to my whine.  I appreciate you all. Peace, Brian

Response:

Question:

Hi,         I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the Ironman Triathlon heart rate monitors. I have been wanting to buy a Polar for about a year, but have been putting it off until I was ready for it, or even until I was sure I wanted it. Now, as of last week, I saw that the Ironman Triathlon HRM’s seem pretty decent. I do have a regular Ironman Triathlon watch and love it, but I have never owned a heart rate monitor. I am thinking in particular of the 100-lap HRM, model  51601. If anyone has even heard about, or have experience with, whether they are good or not, please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!!!!!! Kimberli, who likes the Ironman HRM’s better perhaps because they look cool!  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know a little about the Ironman HRM.  Target and Wal-Mart sell them but they do not have any ability to "recall" laps. That is why I did not get one.  I hope the model you are looking at can recall laps, but before I would buy one, I’d have to see it recall laps with my own eyes. Roger Mine recalls laps (HR at end of lap not average).  The only downside to the Ironman vs Polar is on the monitor itself.  The belt doesn’t come off easily on the Ironman (which makes it more difficult to wash), so my wife makes me leave it outside.  It is getting chilly to do this!

I have a Polar and I just wipe the chest band off, I don’t try to wash it and I doubt if washing it will help the elastic last any longer.  I also haven’t worn it for about a month now.  I’m still waiting for the S710 to arrive. As for you Ironman having laps, where did you buy it at?  I looked quite some time around here for one and none of the discount stores that sold them sold a model that could recall laps.  I wonder if that has changed. Thanks,         Roger

Response:

I know a little about the Ironman HRM.  Target and Wal-Mart sell them but they do not have any ability to "recall" laps. That is why I did not get one.  I hope the model you are looking at can recall laps, but before I would buy one, I’d have to see it recall laps with my own eyes. Roger

Mine recalls laps (HR at end of lap not average).  The only downside to the Ironman vs Polar is on the monitor itself.  The belt doesn’t come off easily on the Ironman (which makes it more difficult to wash), so my wife makes me leave it outside.  It is getting chilly to do this!

Response:

I know a little about the Ironman HRM.  Target and Wal-Mart sell them but they do not have any ability to "recall" laps. That is why I did not get one.  I hope the model you are looking at can recall laps, but before I would buy one, I’d have to see it recall laps with my own eyes. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the Ironman Triathlon heart rate monitors. I have been wanting to buy a Polar for about a year, but have been putting it off until I was ready for it, or even until I was sure I wanted it. Now, as of last week, I saw that the Ironman Triathlon HRM’s seem pretty decent. I do have a regular Ironman Triathlon watch and love it, but I have never owned a heart rate monitor. I am thinking in particular of the 100-lap HRM, model  51601. If anyone has even heard about, or have experience with, whether they are good or not, please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!!!!!! Kimberli, who likes the Ironman HRM’s better perhaps because they look cool!

Response:

One thing I noticed about the Ironman HRM – the sensor looks HUGE compared to the non coded Polar sensor.   Yitah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi,    I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the Ironman Triathlon heart rate monitors. I have been wanting to buy a Polar for about a year, but have been putting it off until I was ready for it, or even until I was sure I wanted it. Now, as of last week, I saw that the Ironman Triathlon HRM’s seem pretty decent. I do have a regular Ironman Triathlon watch and love it, but I have never owned a heart rate monitor. I am thinking in particular of the 100-lap HRM, model  51601. If anyone has even heard about, or have experience with, whether they are good or not, please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!!!!!! Kimberli, who likes the Ironman HRM’s better perhaps because they look cool!  

Response:

Question:

You might try here for some one in your area: http://run-down.com/Training_Resources/Coaching/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey everyone, as an Ironman Triathlete, I decided I’d check out a few other newsgroups and see if there is any place online to locate personal coaching? Where would I be able to find a list of running coaches online? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Thanks in advance, Craig

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hey everyone, as an Ironman Triathlete, I decided I’d check out a few other newsgroups and see if there is any place online to locate personal coaching? Where would I be able to find a list of running coaches online? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Thanks in advance, Craig

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Question:

If anyone is interested in Quality, Affordable and Proven Ironman training programs check out our website.  You get one on one coaching from the only other person beside Lori and Heather to win 2 Ironman’s this year.  Plus you get coaching from a certified coach with 10 years of experience. Sean Clark Director:  CANWI Multisport Coaching www.canwimultisport.com 201-335 Churchill Ave. Penticton, B.C. Canada V2A 1C9 ph. 250-490-8328 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I apologize because I know this has been discussed before but I’d like to know where I can get some good info on Ironman training programs.  I’m planning on doing FL Ironman in November.  I’ve done tri’s since 1986 but I’ve only done one 1/2(in 1997) but now I’m ready to take the plunge.  Either free programs or those that aren’t too expensive. Thanks John

Response:

We have a great IM program.  Depends on your budget though: http://www.TTUniversity.com Original Message: I apologize because I know this has been discussed before but I’d like to know where I can get some good info on Ironman training programs.  I’m planning on doing FL Ironman in November.  I’ve done tri’s since 1986 but I’ve only done one 1/2(in 1997) but now I’m ready to take the plunge.  Either free programs or those that aren’t too expensive. Thanks John

Response:

Check out the training programs at the following: www.triathletemag.com www.trinewbies.com Trinewbies also has some good articles about ironman training, and advice from many who have completed some IM’s Also go by and check out Gordo Byrns website www.byrn.org/    he has some great advice and many great articles

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Take a look at Friel’s "Triathlete’s training bible". Besides clearly guiding you through the step-by-step construction of a training program for any triathlon from scratch, it also has a discussion for the IM plan for a 36 yr old. With some tweaking, you can easily "translate" that plan to your training season. That’s what I did for my first IM, Lake Placid 2000, and it worked great. IM puts more emphasis on both nutritional scheduling during the race and recovery techniques in training than an Olympic distance. As your total training volume increases for IM, more attention should be devoted to recovery (stretching, yoga, self-massage, light rides as active recovery). good luck roberto – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I apologize because I know this has been discussed before but I’d like to know where I can get some good info on Ironman training programs.  I’m planning on doing FL Ironman in November.  I’ve done tri’s since 1986 but I’ve only done one 1/2(in 1997) but now I’m ready to take the plunge.  Either free programs or those that aren’t too expensive. Thanks John

Response:

I apologize because I know this has been discussed before but I’d like to know where I can get some good info on Ironman training programs.  I’m planning on doing FL Ironman in November.  I’ve done tri’s since 1986 but I’ve only done one 1/2(in 1997) but now I’m ready to take the plunge.  Either free programs or those that aren’t too expensive. Thanks John

Response:

Question:

The New York Triathlon Club (www.nytc.org) as a 1/2 ironman in the Town of Ulster named the ‘Hudson Valley Triathlon’.  Although I haven’t done it I hear it is quite hilly.  It is held in early July.  They’ve held it for the last 4 years. Check there site in the next few months for the ‘01 calendar. Mario I plan on doing it as my 1st 1/2 ironman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to plan out my training for the coming year, and I’d like to do a half-ironman sometime in July (or early August). Unofrtunately, most races for next summer aren’t posted on the usual sites yet (e.g., active.com). Does anyone know of a good half ironman that fits the bill? I could go pretty much anywhere inNew Jersey or eastern Pennsylvania. Maybe even Delaware or Maryland, or–if I have to–New York or New England. Thanks! -Harold

Before you buy.

Response:

its early June 3 but the only one I can think of in that area at all. blackwater eagleman -cambridge maryland http://www.tricolumbia.org/eagleman.htm good luck, check www.trifind.com during the winter, they will add all of the races… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to plan out my training for the coming year, and I’d like to do a half-ironman sometime in July (or early August). Unofrtunately, most races for next summer aren’t posted on the usual sites yet (e.g., active.com). Does anyone know of a good half ironman that fits the bill? I could go pretty much anywhere inNew Jersey or eastern Pennsylvania. Maybe even Delaware or Maryland, or–if I have to–New York or New England. Thanks! -Harold

Before you buy.

Response:

Here are a couple, but you would have to go to NY. Hudson Valley Triathlon, this year it was July 9th. http://www.nytc.org Tupper Lake Tinman, this year it was July 2nd. http://www.tupperlakeinfo.com/tinman.html Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to plan out my training for the coming year, and I’d like to do a half-ironman sometime in July (or early August). Unofrtunately, most races for next summer aren’t posted on the usual sites yet (e.g., active.com). Does anyone know of a good half ironman that fits the bill? I could go pretty much anywhere inNew Jersey or eastern Pennsylvania. Maybe even Delaware or Maryland, or–if I have to–New York or New England. Thanks! -Harold

Response:

I did the Hudson Valley Half this year and it is rather hilly, but pretty. The run is a particularly hilly out and back. The ride takes you at first along part of a highway and the veers off around a reservoir with the Catskill Mountains looming in the distance.  The swim, of course, is in the Hudson. This year the buoys drifted about 3/4 mile upstream during the race. This was a pb only for  those of us in the middle and towards the back of the pack …some of us were asked to climb into the rescue boat as we had swum to far. I hear next year the buoys are to be more securely fastened. There were under 400 in the race so it was a  relatively small crowd. If you are are interested in this race and have more questions, feel free to e-mail me directly. Johanna "forever young" Young

Response:

There was a 1/2 IM in southern MD this past September ("To the Point Triathlon" at Point Lookout State Park).  It was the first year, but I’d expect they’ll have it again next year.  Go to www.triath.com for more info. Rich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to plan out my training for the coming year, and I’d like to do a half-ironman sometime in July (or early August). Unofrtunately, most races for next summer aren’t posted on the usual sites yet (e.g., active.com). Does anyone know of a good half ironman that fits the bill? I could go pretty much anywhere inNew Jersey or eastern Pennsylvania. Maybe even Delaware or Maryland, or–if I have to–New York or New England. Thanks! -Harold

Response:

I’m trying to plan out my training for the coming year, and I’d like to do a half-ironman sometime in July (or early August). Unofrtunately, most races for next summer aren’t posted on the usual sites yet (e.g., active.com). Does anyone know of a good half ironman that fits the bill? I could go pretty much anywhere inNew Jersey or eastern Pennsylvania. Maybe even Delaware or Maryland, or–if I have to–New York or New England. Thanks! -Harold

Response:

Question:

Ok I would like to know were the best place to get GU. I live in BC Canada. Abbotsford to be exact (near Vancouver) only a mile from the US. Mail order would be ok, but a place in north west Washington would be better. A good price is a must… Thanks in advance… Randy Johnson… IMC96/97 pr.12:02…

Response:

Keith’s Triathlon Shop has it for $14/box, or $11/box with $60 purchase of non-nutritionals. www.keithstriathlon.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Ok I would like to know were the best place to get GU. I live in BC Canada. Abbotsford to be exact (near Vancouver) only a mile from the US. Mail order would be ok, but a place in north west Washington would be better. A good price is a must… Thanks in advance… Randy Johnson… IMC96/97 pr.12:02…

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Question:

USAT promotes fair (draft free) triathlon competition.  This organization deserves the support of all triathletes. The cost of being an USAT member is very very low at only $25/year. Clearly, this group is not trying to make money off of its members. Considering all of the money spent on gear, travel, PowerBars, etc… the $25 going to USAT is nothing!  USAT provides us with fair races on excellent courses.  Race sanction is not as simple as it looks on the surface, there are many liabilities placed on an organization once it sanctions a race.

Response:

USAT promotes fair (draft free) triathlon competition.  This organization deserves the support of all triathletes. The cost of being an USAT member is very very low at only $25/year. Clearly, this group is not trying to make money off of its members. Considering all of the money spent on gear, travel, PowerBars, etc… the $25 going to USAT is nothing!  USAT provides us with fair races on excellent courses.  Race sanction is not as simple as it looks on the surface, there are many liabilities placed on an organization once it sanctions a race.

Man, you must be a close personal friend of Marv Albert (masochist, for those who don’t have the wonderful luck of working in radio news).  Knowing the way this group thinks, I can hear everybody lining up with their butane torches!!! Let the flaming begin!!!!! Jim Harrington

Response:

No flame here, just an "amen". At $25 a year, USAT membership is a small price to pay to support our sport. We need a national organization, and if you don’t feel like they represent you, it is the people that are voted in that are not supporting you, not the organization. Get out and vote, call your regional rep and let them know your opinion. It is truely sad to see the small number of people that actually vote each yearespecially considering how easy it is to vote. Just read the platforms, and make your selection, and mail the card in. They can’t make it any simpler. "Tri the Vote" Mike Plumb

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Question:

Hi there,         Spencer’s shorts are part of the Speedo TRIATHelite range sold only in Europe. The last time I heard Speedo are not going to sell the range in the states. I could give you the name of a shop that boasts world wide sales if you want in England. Chris carpenter — Chris Carpenter at the Max-Planck-Insitut fuer Polymerforschung voice: +49 6131 379217           : Zipp 2001…..Speed Weaponry fax:   +49 6131 379100           : Saucony,  Loyal to the sport www:   http://www.mpip-mainz.mpg.de/~carpent

Response:

I believe the shorts/suits are Speedo Aquablade "Jammers"…but then again, Spencer could easily have something custom made… Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

Mike: They are available at many triathlon/running shops. Call your local stores first. If you fail, give Inside/Out Sports a call. I know that they have them in stock. Call Cid or Aaron at (919) 755-6202. Cheers Keith Simmons Ironman Triathlon Wetsuits (804) 288-6000

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

Response:

I’ve been looking for the same.  I’ve seen them in World Wide Aquatics catalog as well as in the Speedo store in the mall, but to be honest I wasn’t impressed.  The Speedo store wanted $40-50 and they were very thin(seems you should get a little more durable weight material for that much). DeSoto has something similar for women in their catalog as well as on their website(on sale for quite cheap).  In an email, Emilio told me that they don’t have a similar short for men yet, but he’s had a lot of guys purchase the women’s short in one of the more neutral colors.  That doesn’t really help me since the large is still too small for my Herculean(yeah right) waist. Stacy J. Hills Reston, VA … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know where I can get a pair of the speedo shorts like those worn by Spencer Smith? They look like a chopped down version of bike shorts. These look like they would be ideal for an Ironman length race, to swim in, then ride in. I don’t relish the thought of wearing my weenie bikini on the bike at Ironman, but would love to be able to pass up changing bottoms after the swim though. I checked a couple of mail order mags. and saw a pair that was similar, but they were just straight black, so i’m not sure if they are the same thing. Mike Plumb

Response:

Question:

I think there’s some new organization in Santa Monica called Triathlete Zombies.  I understand they even have a retail store in Santa Monica. Sorry, that’s all I know. Peter

Response:

I think there’s some new organization in Santa Monica called Triathlete Zombies.  I understand they even have a retail store in Santa Monica. Sorry, that’s all I know.

I didn’t see the original post but, yes, there is a Triathlete Zombies outfit in Santa Monica, that is both a retail store and a mail order service.  It’s run by two brothers, Robert & Patrick Gan, who are terrific guys and very dedicated to the sport.  They have an e-mail address, too:   If you get in touch, mention that Cherie Gruenfeld recommended them.   You’ll enjoy dealing with them.

Response:

Does anyone know of any associations of triathletes in the So Cal area for joint training or club activities??? Particularly in the Malibu, Studio City and Santa Monica areas??? Signed, Desperately in need of Training Partners

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Question:

I need a 56-58 recent issue Merlin (bare frame or tricked out bike) for triathalon training.

Response:

I need a 56-58 recent issue Merlin (bare frame or tricked out bike) for triathalon training.

Yeah, me too!  I’ve got to ask: if this will just be your _training_ bike, what the heck will you consider to be your actual _competition_ bike?  Inquiring minds want to know . Rick Teichler                                             Louisville, Colorado) "Usual disclaimers: blame me, not the company that keeps me."

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Try checking the classified ads in Velo News, thats where I found mine.

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