Question:

So boycott the pigs. If someone’s breaking the law in front of you, kick them in the nuts as hard as you can, then stomp their head. When the pigs arrive, tell them you don’t want some religious fanatic with a gun and badge in your face, so you’re gonna handle keeping law and order from now on…. Seriously, this is a violation of some kind of right, I would think. Most definitely it flies in the face of the motto "To Protect and Serve" . Cops cannot pick and choose what part of society they are to protect and serve… Next, there will be pigs deciding not to go into ethnic parts of town, or choose not to help a person who is gay, or Jewish, or whatever other all else.  I would hope there’s a huge stakn raised about why a zealot has a badge and gun and the right to force his bizarre predjudices on others.

I guess they need to look up the term "Public Servant" eh? —               =^..^=           The NetKitten          Alexandra Ceelie     http://talk.to/netkitten

Response:

I guess they need to look up the term "Public Servant" eh?

No shit, wot? I mean, what would happen if I decided who I would and wouldn’t help cross street to the school, based on vague moral judgements, or worse, outright bias? "Oh, I’ll cross this parent and their kid, but you look too christian, so get run over." I’d be sooooo fired, sooooo fast! And sooo deservingly. It’s outrageous, is what it is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —               =^..^=           The NetKitten          Alexandra Ceelie     http://talk.to/netkitten

Response:

So boycott the pigs. If someone’s breaking the law in front of you, kick them in the nuts as hard as you can, then stomp their head. When the pigs arrive, tell them you don’t want some religious fanatic with a gun and badge in your face, so you’re gonna handle keeping law and order from now on….

Seriously, this is a violation of some kind of right, I would think. Most definitely it flies in the face of the motto "To Protect and Serve" . Cops cannot pick and choose what part of society they are to protect and serve… Next, there will be pigs deciding not to go into ethnic parts of town, or choose not to help a person who is gay, or Jewish, or whatever other all else.  I would hope there’s a huge stakn raised about why a zealot has a badge and gun and the right to force his bizarre predjudices on others.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Police department in Pennsylvania town accuses YMCA of promoting witchcraft PENRYN, Pa. (AP) The police department has refused to direct traffic at a YMCA triathlon because it says the club promotes witchcraft by reading Harry Potter books to children. Penryn Fire Police Capt. Robert Fichthorn said the eight-member force voted unanimously to boycott the 20th running of the triathlon, scheduled for Sept. 7. ”I don’t feel right taking our children’s minds and teaching them (witchcraft),” Fichthorn said. ”As long as we don’t stand up, it won’t stop. It’s unfortunate that this is the way it has to be.”

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/024/nation/Police_department_in_Penns… html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

WOW!!!! What  a VALUABLE contribution to the discussion, luzah lurra. Whatta

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – considered running, but paused to say: ~I wouldn’t be surprised if those cops were unexplainably turned into ~frogs….. Hmm, my best friend’s name is Ame, pronounced Ahmee.

Response:

Police department in Pennsylvania town accuses YMCA of promoting witchcraft PENRYN, Pa. (AP) The police department has refused to direct traffic at a YMCA triathlon because it says the club promotes witchcraft by reading Harry Potter books to children. Penryn Fire Police Capt. Robert Fichthorn said the eight-member force voted unanimously to boycott the 20th running of the triathlon, scheduled for Sept. 7. ”I don’t feel right taking our children’s minds and teaching them (witchcraft),” Fichthorn said. ”As long as we don’t stand up, it won’t stop. It’s unfortunate that this is the way it has to be.” http://www.boston.com/dailynews/024/nation/Police_department_in_Penns…

Response:

I wouldn’t be surprised if those cops were unexplainably turned into frogs…..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Police department in Pennsylvania town accuses YMCA of promoting witchcraft PENRYN, Pa. (AP) The police department has refused to direct traffic at a YMCA triathlon because it says the club promotes witchcraft by reading Harry Potter books to children. Penryn Fire Police Capt. Robert Fichthorn said the eight-member force voted unanimously to boycott the 20th running of the triathlon, scheduled for Sept. 7. ”I don’t feel right taking our children’s minds and teaching them (witchcraft),” Fichthorn said. ”As long as we don’t stand up, it won’t stop. It’s unfortunate that this is the way it has to be.”

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/024/nation/Police_department_in_Penns… html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

considered running, but paused to say: ~I wouldn’t be surprised if those cops were unexplainably turned into ~frogs….. Hmm, my best friend’s name is Ame, pronounced Ahmee.

Response:

Question:

Hi, I have read several times that the "do-or-die" US system of qualifying for the olympics in track and field is different from most countries.  I am curious if anyone knows any details about how some of the other countries do their systems.  I hope to not start an argument on the *merits* of the various systems but rather curious on the specifics for some other countries.  Thanks

In Denmark, the respective sports organizations sets up a qualifying result that the athlete / swimmer etc. has to reach within a timeframe. Most competitions will count. This is at least true for running and swimming.

Response:

    The best place on the web to find out more about Canada’s elite athletes in track and field is at the Athletics Canada web site: www.canoe.ca/Athcan. As far as identifying our best runners for Sydney, in my estimation there are about a half-dozen or so worth mentioning.  In the sprints, Donovan Bailey and Bruny Surin are the top men, while Philomena Mensah is starting to run consistently in the high 10.9 to low 11 range.  In the middle distances, Kevin Sullivan is having a fantastic season in Europe, having just set a new national record in the 1500m, (3:32).  Graham Hood is our other top 1500 runner, having been an Olympic Finalist in Barcelona and won Pan Am Gold in Winnipeg ‘99, (which he won with a devastating kick).  Leah Pells is our best female hope.  She lost the Pan Am Gold to Marla Runyan by 0.001 seconds in Winnipeg, (I was there live and was convinced she had won), and finished 4th in the Atlanta Olympic final.  Canada has no really remarkable distance runners, but Carol Montgomery is worth a mention as she will compete in both the 10 000m and the Women’s Triathlon in Sydney, (an event in which she is a heavy favourite to win a medal).  In the field events, Mark Boswell is a top high jumper, (silver in Seville) and should contend in Sydney.  Other than that, the rest of the track team will be rather weak, but a couple of medals is a definite possibility, (don’t count out the 4×100 relay either). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would love to find out more about Canada’s elite runners. Who are they and where on the web can I find out more information on them? My immediate family lives in Canada and are Canadian citizens…but unfortunately I am not a Canadian citizen nor do I live there. Would love to know more about my "parent’s country" though Conal Here in Canada, the selection process is done in order to ensure that every athlete will either finish in the top 16 or the top half of the field. With this in mind the qualifying standards to make the Canadian team are somewhat more difficult than the IAAF standards.  To the best of my knowledge, the following criteria apply to qualifying to the Canadian team: A. The athlete must finish in the top 4 at the Canadian Olympic Trials, ( 11-13 August 2000 in Victoria). B. The athlete must either: 1. Achieve the A+ performance standard prior to 31 December 1999, or finish top 7-16, (differs depending on the event), at the IAAF World Championships in Seville. OR  2. Achieve the A standard prior to the close of the Olympic Trials, (13 August 2000). The Canadian Team for the Olympics will be officially announced by Athletics Canada and the Canadian Olympic Association on 15 August 2000 once all the nominations have been received based on the Trial’s results and previous performances. In reality this system is somewhat flawed because many up-and-coming athletes who may only finish 35th or 40th in Sydney, and thus won’t be selected, could certainly use the experience of competing at an Olympic Games as they will almost certainly be in peak form at the following Olympics in Athens.  Considering the relative affluence of Canada, this type of penny-pinching seems to be rather counter-productive, but the COA claims that Canada can’t afford to send athletic tourists to major competitions. Considering the funding Sport Canada gets for all of the national sports federations this may be true…. — Conal Guan-Yow Ho                                 Department of Anthropology Graduate Student                        University of California, Santa Cruz Office: 337 Social Sciences I USA —

Response:

    In reality this system is somewhat flawed because many up-and-coming athletes who may only finish 35th or 40th in Sydney, and thus won’t be selected, could certainly use the experience of competing at an Olympic Games as they will almost certainly be in peak form at the following Olympics in Athens.

Flawed? NO KIDDING! I have heard one knowledgeable coach say that one of the Canadian standards (in shot put?) has never been met in any drug-tested, international competition. We will, however, be sending a full and complete team of bureaucrats, with alternates, coaches, and support staff, to compete in the freestyle freeloading medley relay, where we expect to rival the perennial favorite, the IOC. Considering the relative affluence of Canada, this type of penny-pinching seems to be rather counter-productive, but the COA claims that Canada can’t afford to send athletic tourists to major competitions. Considering the funding Sport Canada gets for all of the national sports federations this may be true….

There are certainly people who savagely resent every nickel spent on amateur athletes, and who have campaigned intensely to have it stopped. BobMac

Response:

Would love to find out more about Canada’s elite runners. Who are they and where on the web can I find out more information on them? My immediate family lives in Canada and are Canadian citizens…but unfortunately I am not a Canadian citizen nor do I live there. Would love to know more about my "parent’s country" though Conal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here in Canada, the selection process is done in order to ensure that every athlete will either finish in the top 16 or the top half of the field. With this in mind the qualifying standards to make the Canadian team are somewhat more difficult than the IAAF standards.  To the best of my knowledge, the following criteria apply to qualifying to the Canadian team: A. The athlete must finish in the top 4 at the Canadian Olympic Trials, ( 11-13 August 2000 in Victoria). B. The athlete must either: 1. Achieve the A+ performance standard prior to 31 December 1999, or finish top 7-16, (differs depending on the event), at the IAAF World Championships in Seville. OR  2. Achieve the A standard prior to the close of the Olympic Trials, (13 August 2000). The Canadian Team for the Olympics will be officially announced by Athletics Canada and the Canadian Olympic Association on 15 August 2000 once all the nominations have been received based on the Trial’s results and previous performances. In reality this system is somewhat flawed because many up-and-coming athletes who may only finish 35th or 40th in Sydney, and thus won’t be selected, could certainly use the experience of competing at an Olympic Games as they will almost certainly be in peak form at the following Olympics in Athens.  Considering the relative affluence of Canada, this type of penny-pinching seems to be rather counter-productive, but the COA claims that Canada can’t afford to send athletic tourists to major competitions. Considering the funding Sport Canada gets for all of the national sports federations this may be true….

Conal Guan-Yow Ho                                 Department of Anthropology Graduate Student                        University of California, Santa Cruz Office: 337 Social Sciences I                                            USA

Response:

The UK: Trials are held in conjunction with the AAA Champs in 3 weeks time (apart from 10,000m, this w/e and marathon run as part of London). The winner of the trials race is automatically selected PROVIDED THEY HAVE ACHIEVED THE A STANDARD. The next two places are selected by committee, although in practice 2nd and 3rd in the trials only miss out if a known medal hope was absent through injury etc. or if they do not have the A standard. Athletes that do not have the A standard have until a certain date to find a competition and achieve it. If they fail, and there are others with the standard, the others get the nod. Only if there are no athletes with the A standard will B standard athletes get to go. Their selection is as above, trial winner gets preference, then it goes to committee. IanB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have read several times that the "do-or-die" US system of qualifying for the olympics in track and field is different from most countries.  I am curious if anyone knows any details about how some of the other countries do their systems.  I hope to not start an argument on the *merits* of the various systems but rather curious on the specifics for some other countries.  Thanks

Response:

I cannot give you specifics on what country does what, but here is an overview: Option 1:  A committee selects the athletes based on some criteria (maybe overall results, PRs, etc)         I know the Kenyans use the Boston Marathon as their Olympic Marathon trials.         Sometimes the criteria could be the person most likely to medal even if their recent results have not been good (sort of selecting the "big meet" racer. Option 2:  One spot is based on racing or a race and the other spots (if there are any) are committee selection.

Hi, I have read several times that the "do-or-die" US system of qualifying for the olympics in track and field is different from most countries.  I am curious if anyone knows any details about how some of the other countries do their systems.  I hope to not start an argument on the *merits* of the various systems but rather curious on the specifics for some other countries.

Thanks

Response:

    Here in Canada, the selection process is done in order to ensure that every athlete will either finish in the top 16 or the top half of the field. With this in mind the qualifying standards to make the Canadian team are somewhat more difficult than the IAAF standards.  To the best of my knowledge, the following criteria apply to qualifying to the Canadian team:     A. The athlete must finish in the top 4 at the Canadian Olympic Trials, ( 11-13 August 2000 in Victoria).     B. The athlete must either:         1. Achieve the A+ performance standard prior to 31 December 1999, or finish top 7-16, (differs depending on the event), at the IAAF World Championships in Seville. OR  2. Achieve the A standard prior to the close of the Olympic Trials, (13 August 2000).     The Canadian Team for the Olympics will be officially announced by Athletics Canada and the Canadian Olympic Association on 15 August 2000 once all the nominations have been received based on the Trial’s results and previous performances.     In reality this system is somewhat flawed because many up-and-coming athletes who may only finish 35th or 40th in Sydney, and thus won’t be selected, could certainly use the experience of competing at an Olympic Games as they will almost certainly be in peak form at the following Olympics in Athens.  Considering the relative affluence of Canada, this type of penny-pinching seems to be rather counter-productive, but the COA claims that Canada can’t afford to send athletic tourists to major competitions. Considering the funding Sport Canada gets for all of the national sports federations this may be true….

Hi, I have read several times that the "do-or-die" US system of qualifying for the olympics in track and field is different from most countries.  I am curious if anyone knows any details about how some of the other countries do their systems.  I hope to not start an argument on the *merits* of the various systems but rather curious on the specifics for some other countries.

Thanks

Response:

Hi, I have read several times that the "do-or-die" US system of qualifying for the olympics in track and field is different from most countries.  I am curious if anyone knows any details about how some of the other countries do their systems.  I hope to not start an argument on the *merits* of the various systems but rather curious on the specifics for some other countries.  Thanks

Response:

Question:

I am 85% sure I am going to hire a coach.Is it worth the money? Has anyone got much improved race results?                                     Glenn Cook

Response:

Depending on the coach, your commitment and his/her skills, I’d say a resounding yes. Mine took me from 1st season rookie to the best shape of my life at the age of 37, in only 10 months. Can’t ask for more than that. Mine is here http://www.tri-training.com/ Good guy, excellent service. Phil

| I am 85% sure I am going to hire a coach.Is it worth the money? Has anyone got | much improved race results? |                                     Glenn Cook

Response:

I am constantly amazed at cyclists and triathletes who will spend hundreds of dollars to shave a few grams of mass from the bike by replacing parts with lighter parts or who will spend the money replace parts with more aero parts all to shave a few seconds when the same money spent on a decent coach can shave minutes or more.  In addition to providing a training plan a good coach can improve skills (especially true in swimming) and also can provide some objective feedback and correct or adjust a training plan as needed. Strategy can also be improved in some cases depending on the sport. I would recommend a coach who is certified by USA Triathlon or in the case of a specific discipline that might need help, a coach with USA Track and Field, USA Cycling (Expert Level or higher) or USA Swimming credentials. For strength training go with someone with ACSM HFI or NSCA certifications. I also think that for a first coach it is a good idea to have one that you can speak with face to face and who can see you train or perform from time to time.  Later moving to a coach by internet or fax might be easier to deal with.  Also discuss with the coach your background and goals.  If you do not think a particular coach is for you, keeping looking.  I think that you should be comfortable with a coach.  Some will respond well to one personality but not another.  Imagine a really sensitive kid trying to play for Bob Knight (college basketball coach of some note). Good luck with your decision.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 85% sure I am going to hire a coach.Is it worth the money? Has anyone got much improved race results?                                     Glenn Cook

Response:

Yes a good coach is worth it.However you must always ask questions of them. They are there for your benefit. We insist on feedback from tour athletes, so we can assess ourselves as well as the athletes. Also be aware, for example, that if a coach takes on an athlete who has hardly swam before, just by virtue of the fact that they are now swimming more, they will improve. This does not make them a good coach. It is important that the athlete evaluates the coach too. It’s your money, which you’ve worked hard for. Don’t give to anyone. Another thing. Coaches are not perfect, though some may argue that point, they can forget things and make mistakes,ensure you advise them on their errors. I have a close working relationship with all my athletes, I have leaned alot from them too. One girl, Melina. She is doing a sports science degree and is very switched on when it comes to sport. I believe she has benefited from having a coach, won’t mind you giving her a call. Best of luck in you’re search. Lawrence.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 85% sure I am going to hire a coach.Is it worth the money? Has anyone got much improved race results?                                     Glenn Cook

Response:

Check this web site out. www.Multisporttraining.com

Response:

Question:

Hi, I am about to buy a new wristwatch. I am looking for a model with some extra functions for runners. I know there are watches that can measure up to, say, 50 lap times. This could be used to track down the time for each kilometer of a marathon. But, are there also models that can forecast your (possible) end-time, based on how fast you ran last kilometers? This could be nice… If so could perhaps someone give me an indication about what brand, model etc. – and possibly also where to buy (via Internet) and the price? Thanks, Philipp Maier — Read how I felt during my first marathon: http://www.philipp-maier.de

Response:

Philipp, Timex IRONMAN with Datalink was good sized numbers for Splits and time but can only store 1 race. Timex IRONMAN with FLIX has VERY SMALL numbers for the splits (too small) but can store a few different races. I’m sure there are better, but these only cost about $45 around here so it wasn’t too bad, and they are what I use. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am about to buy a new wristwatch. I am looking for a model with some extra functions for runners. I know there are watches that can measure up to, say, 50 lap times. This could be used to track down the time for each kilometer of a marathon. But, are there also models that can forecast your (possible) end-time, based on how fast you ran last kilometers? This could be nice… If so could perhaps someone give me an indication about what brand, model etc. – and possibly also where to buy (via Internet) and the price? Thanks, Philipp Maier — Read how I felt during my first marathon: http://www.philipp-maier.de

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am about to buy a new wristwatch. I am looking for a model with some extra functions for runners. I know there are watches that can measure up to, say, 50 lap times. This could be used to track down the time for each kilometer of a marathon. But, are there also models that can forecast your (possible) end-time, based on how fast you ran last kilometers? This could be nice… If so could perhaps someone give me an indication about what brand, model etc. – and possibly also where to buy (via Internet) and the price? Thanks, Philipp Maier — Read how I felt during my first marathon: http://www.philipp-maier.de

I have a Timex triathlon w/data link, a triathlon without data link, and my newest addition to the collection is a freestyle predator. Each has advantages and disadvantages and I use all three at different times. The data link watch is neat in that it can store lots of useful things like phone numbers. I also kept track of miles (weekly, yearly, miles on each of three pairs of shoes) using the timers. The recall of laps is neat because while the chrono is running it gives you most recent first, and when it is stopped it gives them "chronologically". The down sides are the plastic band is less comfortable(but easy to clean), and the buttons are somewhat hard to press (I occassionaly miss a split). The price is also slightly higher than the others. This is the watch that I usually wear when I am not running. The other triathlon has the fast wrap strap which is very comfortable(but harder to keep clean). The buttons are easy to push and I rarely miss a split. The recall function is a little weird in that you have to reset the chrono to get them in order. It always makes me nervous since if you hit the start button at that point you will lose the splits. I usually write the splits down in reverse order after a race because of this. The chrono has some flexibility in the display but this is more of a pain than a feature for me. I’ve gotton it in the wrong mode twice, luckily on training runs, and had to stop to get it back in the right mode. This is the watch that I normally wear for races. The predator has larger numbers for the split times, but the total time is smaller. Since the width of the display is about the same on all three watches you don’t get as much advantage out of the taller letters as I had hoped. The buttons are firm but I havn’t missed a split yet. The best feature of this watch is that It keeps track of each run along with the date for a total of 100 splits. the triathlons only have one segment of up to 50 splits. I don’t always get arround to filling out my log after each run so this really helps. With the triathlons I would just record a short split to seperate runs but this is much nicer. I train with this watch usually however I use one of the others if  I’m doing a lot of short repeats and am going to have 40 or 50 splits in one session. The back lighting on all three is good but the triathlons are more flexible. You can set them to stay lit for about 10 seconds or for only as long as the button is pushed. also they can be set to light with any button press. The predator is set to light for about 4 seconds and can not be changed. It also doesn’t light with other button presses. Split times stay on the display longer on the triathlons but I haven’t had a problem getting the splits on the predator. If you do miss seeing a split it is easier to recall on the triathlons. The new triathlons don’t have large enough split times for me to see so I havn’t looked at them much. Remember you need to be able to read them at the end of a race with sweat in your eyes. Overall any one of the watches would work fine, but hey, I’m a spoiled brat who likes neat toys. Mike

Response:

Question:

It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint. As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?" I would. Comments? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Response:

Mike, I have run where a sport drink was available at every water stop and it seemed to help quite a bit.  Now I sort of dread races without sports drinks. After reading you post, I envisioned people with bicycles pulling along side runners and taking orders for food and then having it ready by the next water stop. Heck maybe the runners should just carry cell phones with them that have SMS messaging capabilities so they don’t have to talk to make an order. My concern is that, if you eat or drink sports drinks, during a race, will you ever reach the stage where you start burning fat?  I also wonder if Pheidippides carried food with him. Thanks,         Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint. As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?" I would. Comments? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Response:

Mike: I’ve never tried to quantify any benefit, but I carry water on all my runs. Although I had no sense of dehydration on runs shorter than an hour, I did get thirsty. The first time I carried water on a sub-hour run, I so enjoyed "wetting my whistle" that I wondered why I’d ever gone without. Thanks for bringing this to our attention; I may switch to Quic Disc. David In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint. As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?" I would. Comments? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Response:

It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so.

  Interesting report.  But to a degree, not so surprising in that I’ve never considered an hour ’short’.  It the difference were significant at 30 minutes, then I would truly be surprised.  As it is, …, interesting and does mean that I’ll be investigating fluid and fuel methods for shorter races than I’ve previously considered. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint.

  Roughly speaking, taking 1 minute off the 60 minute race (10% faster for the last 10 minutes).     Still to be answered is what happens when the first 50 minutes are done at a more race-like HR (80% is pretty light for me in running).   Could be more significant than that, might be less significant. (Intuition suggests the former, but reality doesn’t care much about what I think is intuitive, hence experiments.) — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint.

You have to read about the exact experimental setup to know if they discovered anything or not. It sounds like they did the same thing 3 times.  1 50 minutes cycling with 7 oz water  2 50 minutes cycling with 48 oz water, but now knew a little    about the test, saved a little, or knew more about their    limits, and did 6% better.  3 50 minutes cycling with 300 calories, but now knew a lot    about the test, paced themselves better, and did 12% better. Without knowing a lot about how the experiment was done, what kind of controls they used, what ages were involved, it is hard to know if there is a benefit. Brent — Brent Beach, Victoria, BC

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I rarely drink in 5k races but always do in 10k or longer although I don’t drink anywhere near 48oz an hour.  One flaw I see in the study is that it ignores the time cost associated with the act of drinking and the potential stomach upset of drinking too much while running.  Suppose a typical 5K runner takes 20 minutes or one third of an hour.  According to the research that runner should drink about 16oz during the race to remain fully hydrated (assuming a constant rate of water loss).  IMO this is far too much fluid to consume and still maintain 5k race pace.  Even in a one hour race, I think 48oz if far too much fluid for a runner to take in without significantly slowing down. It would be like using a wetsuit in a 1/4 mile triathlon swim.  Any time you save using the wetsuit would probably be lost in the additional transition time removing the suit. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint. As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?" I would. Comments? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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I rarely drink in 5k races but always do in 10k or longer although I don’t drink anywhere near 48oz an hour.  One flaw I see in the study is that it ignores the time cost associated with the act of drinking and the potential stomach upset of drinking too much while running.  Suppose a typical 5K runner takes 20 minutes or one third of an hour.  According to the research that runner should drink about 16oz during the race to remain fully hydrated (assuming a constant rate of water loss).  IMO this is far too much fluid to consume and still maintain 5k race pace.  Even in a one hour race, I think 48oz if far too much fluid for a runner to take in without significantly slowing down.

Good point. It would be very difficult to drink that much on the run. But I assume that taking in a lesser amount would still have some benefits over not drinking at all.   While thinking about this issue,  I realized that I frequently run for an hour without drinking. Yet, I would never consider doing a 25 mile bike without water.   Mike "See ya’ at GFT" Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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In the past week, I just bought an ‘InGear’ hip pack that holds a 20 oz. bottle.  I’ve been using it on my runs that are going to be an hour or longer.  Prior to that I wasn’t taking anything and just hoping to see water fountains somewhere along the way.  I can’t believe the difference it has made in the way I feel at the end of the run.  I don’t feel drained.  I feel like I could have gone further. I’ve been using that as a motivation to drive myself harder and farther. Now, at the end of an hour+ run, I will say that there still is some water left in the 20 oz. bottle, so, it does seem to me that 48+ would be a bit much too. The only part I’me still getting used to is having that hip pack on and feeling the weight of the water sloshing around behind my back.  I keep thinking someone is sneaking up on me.  And since I’m using running at 5:00am whens it’s still pitch dark here, you can imagine how ridiculous I look constantly looking over my shoulder. ) Robert "now if they could just fit a portajohn in one of those" Megert Happy Running!

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In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint. As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?" I would. Comments? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Very interesting… and timely!    I have put a lot of thought into this in the past few (hot) months and recently came to the conclusion that I sould be taking more water during my 6-12 mile runs. If I have no water in the 12 miler, I see a definate degradation of performance in the last 3-4 miles.    If I read the study correctly, it would seem that the area being ignored by many distance athletes is the 40-90 min. range. My guess is that the hydration should be taking place during the entire event, so as to provide a more even energy release. Accordingly, I have planned on water caches in next Sun. 15 miler at 3, 6, 9 & 12 (8oz.). As far as races go, I have always felt that the time taken to ingest fluids does not begin to be offset by their benefits unless the races are 10K, or longer. The general philosophy of ‘earlier is better’ would still probably apply to any distance. How about that fall weather! (N.E. states – 70 and sunny) — … tramps like us, Before you buy.

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Mike "See ya’ at GFT" Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

Does this mean we loose the ??:?? soon? Like to make any predictions/wishes? IanB – Isn’t 3pm a funny time to start a triathlon?

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Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:?? Does this mean we loose the ??:?? soon?

Yep. Oct 23rd. Like to make any predictions/wishes?

If things go well, I hope to get close to 15 hrs even.  If I can get on to the run by 9hrs-30 min, and if my knees hold up ( they didn’t last time) I’ll have a good shot at it. If things go very, very well, I can get to the 14’s.   But you can’t count on anything. It’s a long race and there are just too many variables and bad things that can happen. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so. Nancy Clark, writing in October’s Running Journal, provides a different view and it’s made me stop and think. She cites a study (Med Sci Exer 27:200, 1995) in which athletes were asked to complete, on three occasions, an exercise test designed to simulate a 25-mile bicycling race. They biked hard for 50 minutes, (80 % VO2 max) and then completed a 10-minute sprint-to-the-finish during which they worked as hard as they could.

I don’t understand the conditions of this test. It is hardly a short run test because they have gone on for an hour. 50 minutes biking is much easier than 50 minutes of running. What is this test suposed to simulate? A short bike ride or a long run? It seems to me combining the two simulates a biathlon. When they drank lots of water (48 oz., the amount needed to offset dehydration) they sprinted six percent faster compared to the baseline trail during which they drank only seven ounces of water in the initial 50 minutes.

This raises another question. What is considered a sprint? Is it the 10 minutes after the biking or the sprint at the finish? What exactly are they running faster? The end or the overall run?It takes a certain amount of time for the water to be absorbed. By the time the 5k is over, for even the very slow, the water is still being aborbed by the body. This is assuming drinking in the first few steps of a 5k. In most 5k’s I’ve been in the water stop is half way. A runner finishing at 20 minutes has only 10 minutes for the water to be absorbed and take effect. When they drank 300 calories of a sports drink during the first 50 minutes, they improved 12 percent over baseline during the sprint.

Once again I don’t think this test is a good comparison to the real world. What would be the effects of the same participants if they were to drink and not bike for the first 50 minutes. Triathletes excluded, none of us enter a 5k and go for a 50 minute bike ride just before the start. As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?"

This is just stating that one should be well hydrated before a race. We all know that. The fact that it improves performance shouldn’t be a shock. A well hydrated machine is much more effecient. I fail to see any evidence that would make me change my pre-race hydrating ritual. I would disagree with Mike’s statement that hydrating isn’t important for races under an hour. I make sure I’m hydrated before any race of any length. Whether or not I take a drink during the race is a matter of if I want to or not. Peace Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would. Comments? Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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It is conventional wisdom, and one that I have espoused, that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs, say up to an hour or so.

<snipped a lot of stuff As she puts it: "Be you an ordinary athlete or an Olympic hopeful, this study means: Consuming an easily digested combination of water + carbs (such as a sports drink or water + hard candies, defizzed cola, figs, gels, etc.) will help you exercise harder and better at the end of an hour. Wouldn’t you want to be 12 percent better than your (poorly fueled) opponent when the event is down to the wire?" This is just stating that one should be well hydrated before a race. We all know that.

Well, no. The entire experiment was about hydration DURING exercise. It said nothing about pre-race hydration. I fail to see any evidence that would make me change my pre-race hydrating ritual.

Good, there wasn’t any. Which is not surprising, since the experiment didn’t deal with pre-race hydration. Although I was going to answer more extensively, after reading the above, I’ll chalk it up to a misunderstanding. When I said "that you really don’t need to worry about hydration on short runs", I was referring to hydration DURING exercise. That’s what the article and experiment were about. Or perhaps the term "short run" was the problem. When we talk about hydration problems here on rec.running, we generally do so in the context of longer runs.  Seldom do we worry about it as a performance factor in 10K’s or shorter races. That’s what made the article interesting – it questions conventional wisdom with some specific numbers. I would disagree with Mike’s statement that hydrating isn’t important for races under an hour.

Good, especially since the experiment shows a significant performance gain if you hydrate during exercise bouts as short as an hour. That’s why I stated it like I did, that it was "conventional wisdom" that it didn’t matter. I’ve changed my viewpoint on the issue. I make sure I’m hydrated before any race of any length. Whether or not I take a drink during the race is a matter of if I want to or not.

Then you obviously missed the entire point of the article. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 15:??:??

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Question:

I just started reading "Triathlon" by Scott Tinley.  I also know there is "Iron Will" by Mike Plant.  Are there any other books (and movies, a Penny Marshall one for TV) that have tris as the focus.  Please exclude any how to train for tris books.  I think we all know how to do that to some degree. Thanks in advance. PS.  Is there any way of seeing that Sports Illustrated article in 1979 that first brought people attention to the sport? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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PS.  Is there any way of seeing that Sports Illustrated article in 1979 that first brought people attention to the sport?

Check out the local library although they may have it only on microfilm.

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Question:

I log into the RST NG from two sites.  At work, I use MSN and I believe the NG setting is for MSNEWS/REC.SPORT.TRIATHLON.  At home, I use a local ISP and log into NEWS.AIRMAIL.NET/REC.SPORT.TRIATHLON.  Ok so far? Whenever I post from home, I can see the message at work.  However, none of my postings from work are visible at home.  Yet I get answers so I know the message got posted to the RST community at large. What gives?  How do I fix this so I can keep a copy of MSN messages at home? Thanks mucho!

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John, I’m no expert (but couldn’t resist reading). I had the exact same problem about two months ago. I did just about everything I could think of and the only thing that fixed the problem was that on the machine where I could not see the postings from I deleted the entire news account from the news reader, including names, server names, everything – made sure the entire thing was clean, and upon re-establishing the news account info and re-subscribing to the newsgroup everything cleared up. You’re not using Outlook Express as your news reader by any chance are you? that’s what i was using. I never figured out why, just assumed by what fixed it that the local newsgroup folders/database got messed up. Took about a month to figure it out. Hope this helps. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I log into the RST NG from two sites.  At work, I use MSN and I believe the NG setting is for MSNEWS/REC.SPORT.TRIATHLON.  At home, I use a local ISP and log into NEWS.AIRMAIL.NET/REC.SPORT.TRIATHLON.  Ok so far? Whenever I post from home, I can see the message at work.  However, none of my postings from work are visible at home.  Yet I get answers so I know the message got posted to the RST community at large. What gives?  How do I fix this so I can keep a copy of MSN messages at home? Thanks mucho!

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Question:

– Before you started exercising the muscles in your feet were contracted and stiff, causing the toes to curl. Running exercised the muscles which then attained their natural length and flexibility. In the process your toes straightned resulting in the need for larger shoe. I’ve been running for nearly 40 years and my arches havn’t collapsed yet. /             / | oo       oo |/ ||     |||     ||    Pete, ||             ||        |     ===     |       //|\

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Susan, my feet grew a size after having a baby.   Marda

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I only just started this year, and my feet have grown half a size.  I have always needed orthotics though, and when my last pair wore down to the hard plastic,  I stopped wearing them.  I now wear Dr.Schols at work, and just quality insoles in my running.  Ive had no problems as of yet, maybe my feet and ancles are stronger.  I would like to know, though, if there are breathable, flexable, cushioned athetic perscription orthotics out there. Jon.

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There are some wonderful (and expensive) ortholics out there.  Every marathon expo I’ve been to has had people there selling lighter, softer orthodics.  Remember tho’, the softer they are the faster they will break down and the sooner they have to be replaced.  I get leather ones from a chiropractor and they are great.  I was wearing them full time and only getting one marathon out of them (I do 2 a year) but I am trying wearing them only to run and having no problems so maybe I’ll get a full year out of them. Good luck, Andrea

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A respected local runner informed me that about 70% of runners eventually develop fallen arches. I’ve developed flat feet over the years, but thought it was a heredity trait.

My feet have increased at least a full shoe size since I began running regularly in adulthood, and I hear it’s quite a common observation.  It isn’t just a case of a change in shoe sizing or manufacturer either.  Two pairs of boots that I wear only a few times a year, and did so for many years in my 20s, were suddenly one winter (after my first summer/fall of real running) way too small.  Since I don’t imagine our foot bones are really increasing in length, it could be that our arches are flattening. Is it normal for feet to flatten gradually over a lifetime?  Maybe it just happens more quickly in runners.  My feet still arch, don’t know if they’re less arched than before, though.  A flat-footed friend of mine says that his arches fell all at once during a long hard run in high-school, during a period of high-mileage running.   Susan Hall                             (__)       _   Dalhousie University                          .’  `.                                                ’"                                                       .       (  )   Triathlon Nova Scotia Website                ’-| )__| :.     http://is.dal.ca/~susanhal/tnshome.html        | |  | |  ’.

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My feet have increased at least a full shoe size since I began running regularly in adulthood, and I hear it’s quite a common observation.  It isn’t just a case of a change in shoe sizing or manufacturer either.  Two

Perhaps it is your pre-running days when your feet were abnormally stiff and cramped.  Running has made your feet more agile and muscular, and somewhat larger, the way they were genetically designed!

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A respected local runner informed me that about 70% of runners eventually develop fallen arches. I’ve developed flat feet over the years, but thought it was a heredity trait. Has anyone done any studies about this? Is 70% an accurate figure? — Jeff

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Question:

Scott, Will you be part of the production team again this year?  Your behind-the-scenes look at the race was terrific to read and I’m hoping we’ll get the same for Kona 96. Best, Mark

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I missed it!!!  We left Atlanta Saturday morning for the Calloway Gardens TRI …I set the VCR for 2:30 … got home Sunday afternoon … anxious to watch Ironman ‘95, I headed for the VCR … and realized I had taped two hours of football!!   I should have double-checked the time.. oh well. Question:  Would anyone out there make me a copy?  I’ll be glad to send a tape or $$ for a tape.  With less than 8 weeks to go before my first IM (Great Floridian), I was looking forward to the motivation! Thanks! –Jeff Grant—— Atlanta, Georgia

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<<Scott, Will you be part of the production team again this year? You bet!  The Ironman is my favorite shoot of the year. Scott Ogle/Equinox Productions

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For those of you bemoaning the fact that you missed the rebroadcast of the ‘95 HI Ironman this weekend, don’t be *too* disappointed.  Would you believe they broadcast a cut version?  The original program ran a full 2 hours, including commercials.  Saturday’s presentation was only 90 minutes (including commercials).  They eliminated any and all "extraneous" stuff (i.e., pre-race interviews, the stuff on the age groupers, the repeated showing of Bustos’ crash, etc., etc., etc.) and showed nothing but the pros.  Of course, if you missed it last Fall, this cut version is better than nothing, but it sure strikes me as a crude move for NBC to *cut* an Emmy-award-winning presentation. Or was that only in the SF Bay Area market?  Was the complete program broadcast elsewhere? TriBaby — "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place." —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

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Or was that only in the SF Bay Area market?  Was the complete program broadcast elsewhere?

I think they broadcast the condensed version everywhere because we are down in Orange County.  What a disappointment it was. sue baker

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NBC is re-airing the 1995 Ironman World Triathlon Championship this Saturday, August 31.  In Denver it airs at 12:30pm, which can be extrapolated to mean live around the country: 2:30 edt 1:30 cdt 12:30 mdt 11:30 pdt Of course, your mileage may vary, so consult your local listings. For those who forgot, this is the show that created a lot of controversy here on r.s.t., regarding its "MTVish" look and the amount of time devoted to Paula Newby-Fraser’s pain and suffering near the finish line.  You be the judge.  I’m the cameraman responsible for shooting the women’s race (you can spot me in the tape several times if you closely).  I will be happy to discuss the show with anyone who doesn’t start his comments with the word "sucks" Scott Ogle/Equinox Productions (looking forward to another visit to Kona in october)

Was it just me, or was this weekend’s airing 30 minutes shorter than the original?  I seem to remember the following from the original airing, which were missing from this weekend’s:         * Numerous replays of Bustos’ life-threatening accident         * Closeups of Karen Smyers (training in Walden Pond) and                 Greg Welch (running and goofing around Boulder).         * Other various closeup footage         * some announcer out on the bike course showing his hat                 get blown away. Even though I saw the original airing back in November, I watched this airing and got goosebumps a number of times throughout.  I, personally, think the race is awesome enough to turn any form of its production into a good one.   I also worship Mark Allen more than ever before.  PLUS, this time I noticed the look on his face as he crossed the finish line in first place.  A look of genuine joy — like that of a little boy who gets the puppydog he wanted for Xmas (ok, maybe this is a horrible analogy). I mean, it wasn’t like he was just finishing another day at the office ; truly was his performance awesome, yet his reaction human. I am fairly new to the sport and because of this, have not seen any of the previous years airings of the event and have nothing to compare it to.  Maybe we, here at RST, could put together a list of things we would like to have included in future telecasts of the Ironman, like (brainstorming on) more info on the qualification procedure, the race-day diets of the athletes, the training regimen of the elite athletes versus the age-grouper.  How many athletes actually finish?   More info on the course itself (hell, golf telecasts do this) and on the volunteers involved.  Also, a little bit on the history of the race (why 112 miles?  why this order and who in the hell dreamed this one up?) The dominance of Dave Scott and Mark Allen and what makes them tick.  I am just brainstorming right now, and I agree that it would be hard to squeeze all of this into a 2hour telecast (along with coverage of the actual race!) As any amateur athlete, we agree that multiple telecasts would be ideal: one for the athletes themselves and one for the general couch potato, to draw their attention to the sport and to possibly get them off the couch!  I ramble. Anyway, watching the telecast was a perfect was to cool down from my saturday morning long ride — I just wish I could do it this way more often! Mark Johnson

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Try and get a copy of Mike Plants "Ironwill". It has a great deal of history on the Ironman itself and some profiles of the pioneers of the sport. Also an old Triathlon training manual written by Bob Johnson has some interesting reading if you can wade through some of the fads and fantasies.

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<< If you were shooting the women’s race, how did you decide whether to stick with Paula or to follow Karen to the finish? Or did you have two cameras? When it became obvious that we had a rela horse race going and that Karen was closing the gap, I called for another motorcycle camera to cover Karen, since I would miss something if I was bouncing between them.  When Paula sat down, it was an easy decision to stay with her, since the other motorcycle was on Karen and there were at least 3 cameras at the finish line. Scott Ogle/Equinox Productions

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<< Of course, if you missed it last Fall, this cut version is better than nothing, but it sure strikes me as a crude move for NBC to *cut* an Emmy-award-winning presentation. Ever since NBC started airing the Ironman, they have aired a cut-down version of the original long show at a  later date.  Still, that is one more airing than the Superbowl gets, so we can’t complain too loudly. Thanks for the Emmy award reference, but after 3 wins in a row (1992, 1993, and 1994) we didn’t even get nominated this year.  Time to let someone else get a cool statue for the mantle. Scott Ogle/Equinox Productions

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NBC is re-airing the 1995 Ironman World Triathlon Championship this Saturday, August 31.  In Denver it airs at 12:30pm, which can be extrapolated to mean live around the country: 2:30 edt 1:30 cdt 12:30 mdt 11:30 pdt Of course, your mileage may vary, so consult your local listings. For those who forgot, this is the show that created a lot of controversy here on r.s.t., regarding its "MTVish" look and the amount of time devoted to Paula Newby-Fraser’s pain and suffering near the finish line.  You be the judge.  I’m the cameraman responsible for shooting the women’s race (you can spot me in the tape several times if you closely).  I will be happy to discuss the show with anyone who doesn’t start his comments with the word "sucks" Scott Ogle/Equinox Productions (looking forward to another visit to Kona in october)

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I’m rather bummed.  I saw this show last Nov., but forgot to tape it.  I REALLY want to watch it again, but I’m off to a football game.  It’s my fiance’s alma mater, so if I don’t go she won’t go to my alma mater’s game.   This compromising stuff is really tough!  Oh…and my VCR is broken. This has brought up another thought that reoccurs here.  Is there any way that NBC or the production company could produce alonger, uncut video for sale???  Granted, it wouldn’t sell millions, but most triathletes would pay big bucks for such a video.  Heck, I’d even love to watch home videos of the Ironman! Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -NBC is re-airing the 1995 Ironman World Triathlon Championship this Saturday, August 31.  In Denver it airs at 12:30pm, which can be extrapolated to mean live around the country: 2:30 edt 1:30 cdt 12:30 mdt 11:30 pdt Of course, your mileage may vary, so consult your local listings. For those who forgot, this is the show that created a lot of controversy here on r.s.t., regarding its "MTVish" look and the amount of time devoted to Paula Newby-Fraser’s pain and suffering near the finish line.  You be the judge.  I’m the cameraman responsible for shooting the women’s race (you can spot me in the tape several times if you closely).  I will be happy to discuss the show with anyone who doesn’t start his comments with the word "sucks" Scott Ogle/Equinox Productions (looking forward to another visit to Kona in october)

– Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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I caught the last hour of the event and hate that I didn’t tape it.  Would you know if it’s available on tape or any other Tri event?  When will 1996 Ironman be televised? Thanks, Danita New York

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: I’m the cameraman responsible for shooting the women’s race : (you can spot me in the tape several times if you closely).  I will be : happy to discuss the show with anyone who doesn’t start his comments with : the word "sucks" Just yesterday I watched the Paula N-F. finish portion.  Whew.  Scary stuff.  But she really is awesome.  If you were shooting the women’s race, how did you decide whether to stick with Paula or to follow Karen to the finish? Or did you have two cameras?  This part of the coverage seemed just a little choppy, but that was understandable.               Starbound page:  http://www.mcs.net/~tshell/enright.htm

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Scott— Many thanks for posting this!!! The vehemence and vitriol expressed in some posts about the IM coverage was indeed distressing.  I too expressed dissatisfactions, but I also pointed out that we poor slobs sitting back in front of the tube to watch the final product had no idea of the monumental difficulties involved in actually producing the thing.  Thanks to you, now we do. I think a lot of trigeeks feel so strongly about the IM coverage because it is the one and only time when the sport we love gets serious network coverage; therefore, the expectation for the broadcast is extremely, perhaps unrealistically, high.  There’s a definite level of frustration with the limited TV coverage of triathlon, but at the same time folks need to be aware of the real-world difficulties of covering an event like Ironman and presenting it in a sale-able format. Thanks for specifically addressing many of the more realistic criticisms, and for openly agreeing with some.  I only hope that those who flatly criticized the broadcast might learn from your open-minded and balanced response that there’s more to any situation than just the parts that they themselves might see. I, for one, sent an e-mail message to NBC Sports thanking them for the broadcast and offering some friendly suggestions for improvements, no vitriol at all!  It’s important to let the folks bringing us the broadcast know that we appreciate their work.  It’s also important to let them know if there are constructive things we think might improve the show.  The bottom line is, we want them to keep bringing us the Ironman each year! Again, many thanks, Scott.  You’ve done us all a great service. Cheers— TriBaby — "’Be a terrific innovation if you could get your mind to stretch a little further than the next wise crack." "Y’know, I tried that once, but it didn’t snap back into place." —Katharine Hepburn & Eve Arden in "Stage Door" (1937)    

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OK Scott,         Thanks for the info. You should know better than most you can’t please everybody. all said and done it was good coverage, remember when you take in our posts that what we as athlletes want to see isn’t what John Q. Public wants. You have to please the masses, so keep on doing what your doing, we can live with it. Keep up the good work. ( And I thought my job was tough) Wayne

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Scott, Thanks for your post, and for your Ironman Hawaii coverage. While there are things **I** certainly would like to see in coverage, the world does not revolved around me. I think NBC has done a great job in covering the Ironman, and hope that you and NBC will continue.   Job well done and best wishes in 1996.   (Maybe one year I will have the privilege of seeing you from a participant’s or volunteer’s perspective!) -Rolf Arands —    Rolf "Ironman" Arands, Ph.D. (Chemical Engineering)   Dept. of Chem. and Biochem. Eng’g, Rutgers University  –These are my highly opinionated views, not Rutgers’–

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I missed the comments from the Crew.  I would appreciate if someone could repost or e-mail it to me. Thanks.

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Like a fool, I did not set my VCR to tape NBC’s coverage.  Are there any plans to re-air the program, or would anyone like to share a copy of a taped version.   I promise to send it back with a special treat inside. DHively in FLA

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Scott, Thanks for the post – I just wish you would have jumped into the fray when it all was fresh on our minds.  I posted the original comment about the "bottles behind the seat" in the SUCKED thread.  I don’t remember, but I hope I did not use the words "SUCKED" when I refered to your work, if I did, then I apologize. I am a new triathlete, so I think I can relate to the "ignorant" masses that may have seen a triathlon for the first time.  I think my original thread meant something like "If Mark Allen was a quarterback in football, the coverage would analyze everything he was doing, from his technique in swimming to his chain rings, the bottles behind the seat, his schedule, tires, wheels, the list goes on" You offer a good explanation for the lack of this detail, so I stand corrected as being too picky – but I would still like to see more of it in the show next year. Mike from Memphis

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As far as I am concerned, as a "novice" triathlete (46 years young) who dreams of qualifying for Hawaii, I commend your hard and dedicated work on covering the Ironman. Every year that I have watched it just reinforces my desire to be there. I view your coverage as a whole not just individual pieces. You have to make the decision regarding what is drama and what is hype. I’m sorry that other people don’t see that. I wish you much success in the ensuing years. Hopefully I’ll see you there in 1996. Please keep up the outstanding work you and your crew have consistently accomplished. Thanks. Dennis Watson

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Scott, Great behind-the-scenes narrative on what it takes to get a show on TV. I, for one, and with a lot of my friends and family, dug the show.  I’ve been doing tri’s for 10 years and have done 2 Ironman races, and I thought it was the best production to date.  I understand that your audience is not just tri-geeks, but a general sporting group that advertisers will want to appeal to. Keep up the good work Bob Evans

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Just a tad before the night before Christmas,

Lot’s of really good stuff (deleted). When I got done watching the 1995 Ironman coverage I couldn’t wait to be the first to post how great the program was. I thought yes, everyone will follow up and I will have started a really long thread. Well what was to follow was greatly disappointing, not only had no-one really responded to my post but flame after flame showed up. I thought, hmm what am I missing? Are these people so smart they see so many things I hadn’t even thought of? Naturally I kept an open mind and followed the threads anxiously. Not since the  death in Chicago had I been glued to the newsgroup. I religiously tuned in  to see if the *liked it* would outnumber the *sucked*. I started to think, gee are these the people I’m trying to get close to?  Clearly we don’t see things the same, why am I even reading this group everyday hoping to find something constructive and helpful to add? Well, in life I’ve found that I should take what I can use and leave the rest. And so it is with rst. I emailed WTC and told them how much I enjoyed the coverage and how much I appreciated their efforts. I hope many fellow rst’ers did the same. Or are we going to bite the hand that feeds us? Triathlons not only changed my life, they keep it changed. Without my swim, bike,run routine I’m just another garbage can variety drug addict alcohlic. I need this sport to stay alive and heathly, and grateful. So thank-you Scott, you are an Ironman as well. All your hard work is truly acknowledged on this end.  And please thank your co-horts as well. I know next year will be even better. chris davis

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To Scott Ogle: Wow! Detail! I love it! Best response ever to the nitpickers!!! All those presumptions about know-nothing TV people who don’t care about the sport are shown to be the usual downbeat paranoid  fantasy. Nice work, Scott. Timothy Carlson

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This year’s coverage was very strong.  This post was a terrific little Christmas present for all of us Ironman junkies as well.  Thanks for taking the time to write it. Merry Christmas to all! Mark

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Each October, the coming of the full moon draws 1500 of the fittest athletes on the planet to one magical island for one magical race.  For some, it is an opportunity to compete for the title of "champion".  Others come to re-affirm their essential wholeness after recovering from injury or disease.  But most come without any thought of victory, just the chance to cross the finish line and claim the medal, the finisher