Question:

ok, besides being fat, my reasons for LCing include my T1 diabetic husband.  He’s finally seen the light after getting the results from his blood work on Feb 10th.  He started LCing immediately (well almost immediately, we didn’t even see the results for almost 2 months, then he called the lab) and the results are amazing.  Tests done this past monday show a dramatic improvement.                 FEB                     JUNE    reference A1C              10.8                   7.8         <6 calculated mean glucose          276                     181 chol.            253                    134       100-199 triglycerides     339                   100        30-149 HDL               40                     36        40-77 LDL              145                     78        62-100 Chol/HDL risk factor                   6.33                  3.72 Our doctor called with the first results and told him he was going to die very young.  And she meant it.  She was scared for him.  After the tests this week she called and told him he didn’t have to worry about having a heart attack because if he stopped whatever he was doing she would kill him.  Speaking of heart attack, he did have a stress test last month as well.  Grandfathers on both sides died young from heart attacks.  My husband is all of 39. Ellen

Response:

|| ok, besides being fat, my reasons for LCing include my T1 diabetic || husband.  He’s finally seen the light after getting the results from || his blood work on Feb 10th.  He started LCing immediately (well || almost immediately, we didn’t even see the results for almost 2 || months, then he called the lab) and the results are amazing.  Tests || done this past monday show a dramatic improvement. || || FEB JUNE    reference || || A1C 10.8                 7.8 ||         <6 || calculated mean || glucose          276                     181 || || chol.            253                    134       100-199 || || triglycerides     339                   100        30-149 || || HDL               40                     36        40-77 || || LDL              145                     78        62-100 || || Chol/HDL risk factor ||   6.33                  3.72 || || || || Our doctor called with the first results and told him he was going to || die very young.  And she meant it.  She was scared for him.  After || the tests this week she called and told him he didn’t have to worry || about having a heart attack because if he stopped whatever he was || doing she would kill him.  Speaking of heart attack, he did have a || stress test last month as well.  Grandfathers on both sides died || young from heart attacks.  My husband is all of 39. || || Ellen I am saving these results to show anyone who ASKs me about Atkins. which is many people. It is absolutely unreal to me how brainwashed we have all been by the agriculture industry. Corn, corn, corn and anything they can possibly make from corn! The beef industry needs to step up right now. Oops, started proselytizing.  anyway, great numbers! Having been widowed at 27 I know,  I worry about my 39 yr old smoking, pop drinking, hard working DH(2). I am making him an appointment to get a physical, I will for sure be showing this post to him after he gets back his results Thanks for posting,. I needed the nudge to get him there.– Lori 210/159/150 LC since 1/17/03 June Challenge 163/158

Response:

WOW ellen… tell your hubby congrats for me !! those are wonderful results I bet you both are soooooooo happy and sooo proud. Good Going Keep it up ~Karen~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ok, besides being fat, my reasons for LCing include my T1 diabetic husband.  He’s finally seen the light after getting the results from his blood work on Feb 10th.  He started LCing immediately (well almost immediately, we didn’t even see the results for almost 2 months, then he called the lab) and the results are amazing.  Tests done this past monday show a dramatic improvement.            FEB                     JUNE    reference A1C          10.8                   7.8        <6 calculated mean glucose          276                     181 chol.            253                    134       100-199 triglycerides     339                   100        30-149 HDL               40                     36        40-77 LDL              145                     78        62-100 Chol/HDL risk factor              6.33                  3.72 Our doctor called with the first results and told him he was going to die very young.  And she meant it.  She was scared for him.  After the tests this week she called and told him he didn’t have to worry about having a heart attack because if he stopped whatever he was doing she would kill him.  Speaking of heart attack, he did have a stress test last month as well.  Grandfathers on both sides died young from heart attacks.  My husband is all of 39. Ellen

~Karen~ 216/189/140ish start Jan17/03

Response:

Lori, so sorry to hear about your loss at 27.  This has always been one of my biggest fears and I really am kind of surprised that it hasn’t happened.   Thank God he finally got a handle on it.  This November is or 20th anniversary and I never thought he’d see it. I am also sending his results to his grandmother who refuses to believe that Atkins works.  His whole family (they’re in TX) is doing Atkins and has lost a lot of weight.  Nobody else is diabetic tho so we have no other lab results to show Grandma. Have you ever read any of the original Zone books by Barry Sears?  He calls it "death by agriculture".  I always liked that. Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – || Ellen I am saving these results to show anyone who ASKs me about Atkins. which is many people. It is absolutely unreal to me how brainwashed we have all been by the agriculture industry. Corn, corn, corn and anything they can possibly make from corn! The beef industry needs to step up right now. Oops, started proselytizing.  anyway, great numbers! Having been widowed at 27 I know,  I worry about my 39 yr old smoking, pop drinking, hard working DH(2). I am making him an appointment to get a physical, I will for sure be showing this post to him after he gets back his results Thanks for posting,. I needed the nudge to get him there.– Lori 210/159/150 LC since 1/17/03 June Challenge 163/158

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, besides being fat, my reasons for LCing include my T1 diabetic husband.  He’s finally seen the light after getting the results from his blood work on Feb 10th.  He started LCing immediately (well almost immediately, we didn’t even see the results for almost 2 months, then he called the lab) and the results are amazing.  Tests done this past monday show a dramatic improvement.            FEB                     JUNE    reference A1C                 10.8                   7.8         <6 calculated mean glucose          276                     181 chol.            253                    134       100-199 triglycerides     339                   100        30-149 HDL               40                     36        40-77 LDL              145                     78        62-100 Chol/HDL risk factor              6.33                  3.72 Our doctor called with the first results and told him he was going to die very young.  And she meant it.  She was scared for him.  After the tests this week she called and told him he didn’t have to worry about having a heart attack because if he stopped whatever he was doing she would kill him.  Speaking of heart attack, he did have a stress test last month as well.  Grandfathers on both sides died young from heart attacks.  My husband is all of 39.

I like his doctor.  ;-)  Might I suggest adding a fish oil capsule and one of flaxseed oil daily to improve his HDL?  Those other numbers are great, and his A1c will be down in the normal range before he knows it if he keeps low-carbing.  Exept that T1s don’t want it that low, do they?  I’m T2, and I’m a little weak on the differences in some areas. Have you ever dropped in to alt.support.diabetes? Priscilla — Did you know that green beans are the new noodles?

Response:

Have you ever dropped in to alt.support.diabetes?

occasionally, but I did post his results there as well.  I just don’t have the time to keep up with both groups and prefer this one. How much flaxseed do you think it would take to do the job?  I have whole seeds that I grind and can easily add it to something for him. Ellen

Response:

I like his doctor.  ;-)

I could tell so many great stories about our doctor it would be the longest post around.  She is the most incredible person I know and we are so thankful to have found her.  Her husband is also a doctor and we are established patients with both.  If I was a religious person I would swear that God put them in our town to watch out for my family.  It surely was a divine intervention. Ellen

Response:

Doctors like that are such a treasure !! Our family dr before we moved was like that.. in fact when I was pregnant (both times) , he made calls to our home in the evening Just to "check up on the mommy". Make sure I didnt have concerns, or problems. He was more a friend.. than our dr. We felt like we could discuss anything with him.. and in a casual way , instead of formal.. which made everything easier. He still has my kids’ pictures on his desk .. right along with his own kids  Even though we moved to a new town now. And to this day.. I hate the thought of getting a new Family dr. So for now.. we just go to the local drop in clinic. ~Karen~ I like his doctor.  ;-) I could tell so many great stories about our doctor it would be the longest post around.  She is the most incredible person I know and we are so thankful to have found her.  Her husband is also a doctor and we are established patients with both.  If I was a religious person I would swear that God put them in our town to watch out for my family.  It surely was a divine intervention. Ellen

~Karen~ 216/189/140ish start Jan17/03

Response:

Ellen, SMILE. Your post made me sooo happy for your husband! I am very impressed with his determination. Tell your husband, for me, that he is doing a wonderful job:) BTW.. I am not a troll. I have been away from the ng for a few weeks( college study), and my email is diff. It was raneyj2310. Anyhow, thanks so much for posting your husbands lab results. jolinda

Response:

hi Jolinda, I just read your post and it made ME smile  :)   Can you imagine how happy my husband and I are?  For so many years we tried the whole lowfat food pyramid scheme only to watch his blood sugar levels and weight continue to rise.  This is working so well for him and he is so committed to staying on plan. heehee….he just called and said he wants to train for a triathlon with me!  Life is good! Enjoy your summer break Jolinda, Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ellen, SMILE. Your post made me sooo happy for your husband! I am very impressed with his determination. Tell your husband, for me, that he is doing a wonderful job:) BTW.. I am not a troll. I have been away from the ng for a few weeks( college study), and my email is diff. It was raneyj2310. Anyhow, thanks so much for posting your husbands lab results. jolinda

Response:

Our doctor called with the first results and told him he was going to die very young.  And she meant it.  She was scared for him.  After the tests this week she called and told him he didn’t have to worry about having a heart attack because if he stopped whatever he was doing she would kill him.

Very impressive test results, Ellen!  I hope you’re both very pleased!! Carol — 226/192/150 June Challenge Goal – 192.5 Atkins since 1-26-2003 Type 2 Diabetic since 5-15-2001

Response:

Lori, so sorry to hear about your loss at 27.  This has always been one of my biggest fears and I really am kind of surprised that it hasn’t happened.   Thank God he finally got a handle on it.  This November is or 20th anniversary and I never thought he’d see it.

That’s one of my big fears too – I would just be devastated to have finally met the perfect man after a long series of disastrous relationships, only to lose him far too young. With his father’s history of heart problems (starting from before my sweetie was born), even if I never lose an ounce (which is looking entirely possible), I’m sticking with LC not only because I feel better, but because my sweetie cheated a lot more when I gave up LC for a few months, and I want to keep him healthy so he’s around as long as possible! ) Rachel (New Zealand)

Response:

Have you ever dropped in to alt.support.diabetes? occasionally, but I did post his results there as well.  I just don’t have the time to keep up with both groups and prefer this one. How much flaxseed do you think it would take to do the job?  I have whole seeds that I grind and can easily add it to something for him.

I have no idea.  It’s the oil I take, not the seeds. Priscilla — Did you know that green beans are the new noodles?

Response:

With his father’s history of heart problems (starting from before my sweetie was born), even if I never lose an ounce (which is looking entirely possible), I’m sticking with LC not only because I feel better, but because my sweetie cheated a lot more when I gave up LC for a few months, and I want to keep him healthy so he’s around as long as possible!

Exactly.  FWIW, my FIL had quadruple bypass at the age of 53.  Nothing like seeing your father after having his chest cracked open to get you on the straight and narrow I guess.  Although it did still take hubby a few years after that to get his act together.  He does better when I do it with him, and yes, I may never lose a pound either. Ellen

Response:

Question:

.how do you propose pushing your HR down (training response) w/o pushing your HR up (training)?

Well, that is true. You need the training at increase HR to arrive at a lower HR. But, maximum is not really neccessary. This thread was on max HRs, which seems to be on everyone’s agenda. Those who train by the monitor, become slaves to the monitor and sometimes can lose sight of the issue of the race.

Response:

Now this is silly…how do you propose pushing your HR down (training response) w/o pushing your HR up (training)? Damn Polar for making HR measurements so accessible! Andy Coggan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see many here try to push their HR UP. High rate does not always correlate with high cardiac output, and that is what you really want, a cardiac output sufficient to meet the demands of whatever you are doing at the time. With training and efficiency, one should actually lower HR as increase in HR is a load on the heart. Me, I have been trying to push my HR DOWN. As of now, at 51 and 18 years of tris, I have a resting heart rate of 40-44 and can get down to 38 if I relax and will it so. This means that at 220 minus age, max HR would be 169. That would be greater than 4X resting rate. Hopefully I would never get to that rate. If I am trained sufficiently my stroke volume would be great enough to accommodate my need and would meet that need before it reached max HR. So, if we take myself with a resting HR as above and compare to someone with a restrate of 80, and we go by the more or less standard numbers of 220 minus age and we are the same age, what does it say if we both can achieve the max of 169? Mine at 4X restrate and he at 2X restrate. His ability to achive that max rate is actually easier than my ability. In other words, max heart rate has less bearing overall than resting heart rate. Or, the difference between the two.

Response:

Now that you mention it, I’m not sure either.  Somehow I had the idea of 200 – age = max.  Also the chart on the package had the danger zone for 45 year olds starting at 160.

The classic is 220-age, but there are many other variations.  None of them are ‘accurate.’  And more so, the feeling is that the decline in MHR due to age is far less significant in active people.   The guidelines are most effective for those starting a new fitness routine where one might overstress the heart.  There are tests to determine your personal max rate – essentially stress tests and probably should be undertaken with care.  The new Polars also will estimate a max hr based on your OwnIndex score.  No idea if their guess is better than the simple calcs out there. — Rec.scuba strokes pics page: www.jor.com/strokes Aquashot page: www.jor.com/dive/aquashot

Response:

I quite often see 160 to 165 on my heart rate monitor.  I have gotten it up to about 175.  I’m 53 and I’ve never tried to push myself hard enough to see what my maximum might be. Bob in Kalamazoo

Response:

| | I don’t believe it is uncommon for fit, | endurance athletes to have  a ‘high’ max HR, as well as the ability to | achieve a higher than ‘normal’ high HR. | | Less common than in untrained persons, since max HR tends to decrease w/ | endurance exercise training. | | Andy Coggan | Not to argue your point, as my information, and knowledge of the subject is mostly anecdotal. But I was of the belief that Max HR is predisposed, and the ability to achieve max, or near max was more probable in a fit person as he(she) would have the strength/ stamina to stress themselves far beyond the level of an untrained person. If Max HR decreases with endurance training, might it be expected to rise if the athlete reduced, or abandon their training regimen? ED3

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | I don’t believe it is uncommon for fit, | endurance athletes to have  a ‘high’ max HR, as well as the ability to | achieve a higher than ‘normal’ high HR. | | Less common than in untrained persons, since max HR tends to decrease w/ | endurance exercise training. | | Andy Coggan | Not to argue your point, as my information, and knowledge of the subject is mostly anecdotal. But I was of the belief that Max HR is predisposed, and the ability to achieve max, or near max was more probable in a fit person as he(she) would have the strength/ stamina to stress themselves far beyond the level of an untrained person. If Max HR decreases with endurance training, might it be expected to rise if the athlete reduced, or abandon their training regimen? ED3

When discussing max HR just keep in mind that what you are discussing is not the maximum rate at which your heart can beat but rather the maximum rate at which you can make your heart beat during exercise.  So physiological adaptations to training can effect max HR.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | I don’t believe it is uncommon for fit, | endurance athletes to have  a ‘high’ max HR, as well as the ability to | achieve a higher than ‘normal’ high HR. | | Less common than in untrained persons, since max HR tends to decrease w/ | endurance exercise training. | | Andy Coggan | Not to argue your point, as my information, and knowledge of the subject is mostly anecdotal.

Mine is based on both reading and contributing to the primary research literature in this area. But I was of the belief that Max HR is predisposed, and the ability to achieve max, or near max was more probable in a fit person as he(she) would have the strength/ stamina to stress themselves far beyond the level of an untrained person.

Sorry, but no. The only way this might happen is if the untrained/unfit person wasn’t pushed all the way to maximum…that might be true if they were testing themselves w/o adequate guidance/motivation, or in a stress test designed to screen for cardiovascular disease, in which it is common to stop the test at 85% of age-predicted max HR, but wouldn’t happen in a typical laboratory test of VO2max. If Max HR decreases with endurance training, might it be expected to rise if the athlete reduced, or abandon their training regimen?

Yes. Case in point: in one study, I stopped all training for two weeks. In that time, my max HR rose from the low 180’s to the low 190’s. We then infused Macrodex, a plasma volume substitute, to replace the lost plasma volume – this brought my max HR down to the mid 180’s in a test conducted just a few hours later. Andy Coggan

Response:

I see many here try to push their HR UP. High rate does not always correlate with high cardiac output, and that is what you really want, a cardiac output sufficient to meet the demands of whatever you are doing at the time. With training and efficiency, one should actually lower HR as increase in HR is a load on the heart. Me, I have been trying to push my HR DOWN. As of now, at 51 and 18 years of tris, I have a resting heart rate of 40-44 and can get down to 38 if I relax and will it so. This means that at 220 minus age, max HR would be 169. That would be greater than 4X resting rate. Hopefully I would never get to that rate. If I am trained sufficiently my stroke volume would be great enough to accommodate my need and would meet that need before it reached max HR. So, if we take myself with a resting HR as above and compare to someone with a restrate of 80, and we go by the more or less standard numbers of 220 minus age and we are the same age, what does it say if we both can achieve the max of 169? Mine at 4X restrate and he at 2X restrate. His ability to achive that max rate is actually easier than my ability. In other words, max heart rate has less bearing overall than resting heart rate. Or, the difference between the two.

Response:

As for raising my MHR… I didn’t spell this out but, I doubt my MHR has actually changed, what I’ve done is to work on a physical disability that stopped me getting anywhere close to it previously. I still struggle to get to MHR during most activities but at least on Interval work now I can… Agreed about the formula, but that one comes closest generally. ++Mark.

Response:

I don’t believe it is uncommon for fit, endurance atheletes to have have a ‘high’ max HR, as well as the ability to achieve a higher than ‘normal’ high HR.

Less common than in untrained persons, since max HR tends to decrease w/ endurance exercise training. Andy Coggan

Response:

The classic is 220-age, but there are many other variations.  None of them are ‘accurate.’

Actually, they are all accurate…what they aren’t is precise. And more so, the feeling is that the decline in MHR due to age is far less significant in active people.

There is *one* publication from John Holloszy’s laboratory reporting no decline in max HR over an 8 year period in a handful of master athletes…however, there are a number of other studies showing no attenuation, and on average older athletes do not have higher (and often have lower) max HR than untrained persons of the same age. Your statement is therefore largely wishful thinking that has made its way out into the lay press. Andy Coggan

Response:

166 is not high for a fit 47 year old. See your doctor if concerned. I’m 44 and have worked hard for 2-years to get my MHR from 120 to 162 and rising. Of all the various calculations for MHR, I found this to be the one most accurate   208-(age*0.7) Its from  Doug Seal at the University of Colorado. Seems to work for most people I’ve asked. For you that would mean a MHR of 175! ++Mark.

Response:

  I found this to be the one most accurate [formula for HRmax]   208-(age*0.7) doesn’t work for me. formula says 190 but i still reach 200. more on the bike. the HRmax is different for each sport. it is genetically determined so there’s no formula that can help you in finding the accurate value. it’s best found out by trying, but under medical supervision. this is the first time i read someone raised his HRmax, normally it lowers with heavy endurance (over)training. p!

Response:

Now that you mention it, I’m not sure either.  Somehow I had the idea of 200 – age = max.  Also the chart on the package had the danger zone for 45 year olds starting at 160. Thanks for the input. Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got a Speedo HRM for my birthday (47th).  After getting all the settings done, I went for a run around the block.  Before I left, the HR was displaying 70.  I jogged for a minute then broke into a full hard run. After  about two minutes of flat out effort, I glanced at the HR reading. It was 166.  That stopped me.  I was under the impression that a 47 year old man should have a max heart rate around 150. Within seconds it came down to 152 and in three or four minutes, it was under 100 and is reading 80 right now (which I verfied manually)  I can’t seem to manually take my HR when it is elevated.  Does anyone have experience with the Speedo model HRM?  Does it read high?  Do I have a heart problem?  I took a heart stress test four years ago and ran the machine into the ground. (I was valet parking cars part-time) and never had an abnormal reading. Thanks, Sam I am not sure what equation suggests  your Max HR is 150 at age 47, but at age 49, I have driven my HR as high as 185, and I do not believe that to be my max. I use a Polar X-trnr +, and find it to be accurate any time I compare it to any other reading. I don’t believe it is uncommon for fit, endurance atheletes to have have a ‘high’ max HR, as well as the ability to achieve a higher than ‘normal’ high HR. ED3

Response:

The replies above are interesting.  I would suggest that your heart rate max is 205 minus 1/2 your age or about 182.  It is not unusual to be very surprised by how high the heart rate is when jogging after first getting a monitor.  In fact,  the major benefit of the monitor is to allow you to train in an aerobic zone that is not too high (this builds endurance) such as 60-70 of max and to recover in a zone below this.  Runs done on the easy days that are above this heart rate zone really do not allow recovery.  Stan

Response:

| The replies above are interesting.  I would suggest that your heart rate max is | 205 minus 1/2 your age or about 182.  It is not unusual to be very surprised by | how high the heart rate is when jogging after first getting a monitor.  In | fact,  the major benefit of the monitor is to allow you to train in an aerobic | zone that is not too high (this builds endurance) such as 60-70 of max and to | recover in a zone below this.  Runs done on the easy days that are above this | heart rate zone really do not allow recovery.  Stan Polar has an abundance of info in this 4 part series: http://www.polar.fi/personaltrainer/serious/book/part1.html ED3

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got a Speedo HRM for my birthday (47th).  After getting all the = settings done, I went for a run around the block.  Before I left, the HR = was displaying 70.  I jogged for a minute then broke into a full hard = run.  After  about two minutes of flat out effort, I glanced at the HR = reading.  It was 166.  That stopped me.  I was under the impression that = a 47 year old man should have a max heart rate around 150. Within = seconds it came down to 152 and in three or four minutes, it was under = 100 and is reading 80 right now (which I verfied manually)  I can’t seem = to manually take my HR when it is elevated.  Does anyone have experience = with the Speedo model HRM?  Does it read high?  Do I have a heart = problem?  I took a heart stress test four years ago and ran the machine = into the ground. (I was valet parking cars part-time) and never had an = abnormal reading. =20 Thanks,

At the Y where I workout there is one route that is 4.2 miles. After running that route my average heart rate as measured on my Polar is around 162. I’m 46 years old. I often see rates over 170 when going up hills, fast runs etc. This site might also help with some sort of benchmarking, http://www.bpr.com/triathlon/hrmonitor.htm

Response:

I got a Speedo HRM for my birthday (47th).  After getting all the settings done, I went for a run around the block.  Before I left, the HR was displaying 70.  I jogged for a minute then broke into a full hard run. After  about two minutes of flat out effort, I glanced at the HR reading. It was 166.  That stopped me.  I was under the impression that a 47 year old man should have a max heart rate around 150. Within seconds it came down to 152 and in three or four minutes, it was under 100 and is reading 80 right now (which I verfied manually)  I can’t seem to manually take my HR when it is elevated.  Does anyone have experience with the Speedo model HRM?  Does it read high?  Do I have a heart problem?  I took a heart stress test four years ago and ran the machine into the ground. (I was valet parking cars part-time) and never had an abnormal reading. Thanks, Sam I am not sure what equation suggests  your Max HR is 150 at age 47, but at age 49, I have driven my HR as high as 185, and I do not believe that to be my max. I use a Polar X-trnr +, and find it to be accurate any time I compare it to any other reading. I don’t believe it is uncommon for fit, endurance atheletes to have have a ‘high’ max HR, as well as the ability to achieve a higher than ‘normal’ high HR. ED3

Response:

Your max would typically be around 170, or so.  Your AT threashold may be in the 140 range; But, this varies tremedously w/ the individual.  The question I have is why on earth would you break into a "full hard run" after a minute? This does not make any sense particularily for someone of our (your) age!!  If this is the way you train, you really do need the heart rate monitor.  Please, learn to be sensible. david Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others…..

Response:

I got a Speedo HRM for my birthday (47th).  After getting all the settings done, I went for a run around the block.  Before I left, the HR was displaying 70.  I jogged for a minute then broke into a full hard run.  After  about two minutes of flat out effort, I glanced at the HR reading.  It was 166.  That stopped me.  I was under the impression that a 47 year old man should have a max heart rate around 150. Within seconds it came down to 152 and in three or four minutes, it was under 100 and is reading 80 right now (which I verfied manually)  I can’t seem to manually take my HR when it is elevated.  Does anyone have experience with the Speedo model HRM?  Does it read high?  Do I have a heart problem?  I took a heart stress test four years ago and ran the machine into the ground. (I was valet parking cars part-time) and never had an abnormal reading.   Thanks, Sam

Response:

Question:

I spoke with a guy that has done this race 4 times.  He said that he was able to use his wet suit on 3 of those trips.  This leads me to beleive that it is a race day call, though I am not sure.  You can always email the race director for better information: Good luck – this is my first time at Muncie, too.  Actually, it is my first race longer than an Oly… Kurt I’m doing Muncie this year, and I noticed that their brochures didn’t

mention water temp/wetsuits.  Are wetsuits ALWAYS illegal, or is it a race-day call? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be in big trouble if I can’t use my wetsuit!! Thanks, Rich gw- I did Muncie last year and found it to be the "easiest" of the half-ironmans I’ve done.  Unlike Pigman and Buffalo Springs, the bike course is FLAT!  And on a closed course no less.  Prime for fast times.  The run is likewise flat and has some, but not a lot, of shade.  I recall the run aid stations well stocked, but can’t remember what brand they had.  They also had iced towels — very nice! The weather will be the biggest wild card.  The day before the race last year was hot (95F), humid and windy.  I was not looking forward to these conditions.  But on race day some sort of weather front came thru and cleared out the humidity and dropped the temp by 20 degrees. The wind however remained. It was not a lot of fun swimming 1.2 miles in a 20 mph wind.  The lake had white caps on it.  Oh, and no wetsuit either.  Water temp was around 82F. Have fun.  It was a great race on a safe course with a super organization running it. Mike Muncie will be my first 1/2IM.  To prepare a plan for race day I would benifit from knowing a bit more about the bike and run course terrain and aid stations.  What has been the race drink?  What kind of food/bars/gu is available on the bike course? It looks like mid 90’s this weekend here in Louisville KY (Shelbyville should be fun) and not much cooler for Muncie.  I’d be interested in talking with anyone who would be at Shelbyville and who has or will be raceing Muncie. Thanks, gw. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also

find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful — Kurt Estes http://kestes.homepage.com/Triathlon/tri_links.htm Before you buy.

Response:

How about water temps this year?  Any one know?

Response:

I’m doing Muncie this year, and I noticed that their brochures didn’t mention water temp/wetsuits.  Are wetsuits ALWAYS illegal, or is it a race-day call? I’ll be in big trouble if I can’t use my wetsuit!! Thanks, Rich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gw- I did Muncie last year and found it to be the "easiest" of the half-ironmans I’ve done.  Unlike Pigman and Buffalo Springs, the bike course is FLAT!  And on a closed course no less.  Prime for fast times.  The run is likewise flat and has some, but not a lot, of shade.  I recall the run aid stations well stocked, but can’t remember what brand they had.  They also had iced towels — very nice! The weather will be the biggest wild card.  The day before the race last year was hot (95F), humid and windy.  I was not looking forward to these conditions.  But on race day some sort of weather front came thru and cleared out the humidity and dropped the temp by 20 degrees. The wind however remained. It was not a lot of fun swimming 1.2 miles in a 20 mph wind.  The lake had white caps on it.  Oh, and no wetsuit either.  Water temp was around 82F. Have fun.  It was a great race on a safe course with a super organization running it. Mike Muncie will be my first 1/2IM.  To prepare a plan for race day I would benifit from knowing a bit more about the bike and run course terrain and aid stations.  What has been the race drink?  What kind of food/bars/gu is available on the bike course? It looks like mid 90’s this weekend here in Louisville KY (Shelbyville should be fun) and not much cooler for Muncie.  I’d be interested in talking with anyone who would be at Shelbyville and who has or will be raceing Muncie. Thanks, gw. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

As with the rest of the replies the weather is a big factor of the race. It was very windy last year. The swim is usually tough due to the wind that seems to kick up at the start. The swim course has three right turns t with the last leg into the sun and wind. There is usually a red strobe light at the takeout to guide you in. Then you follow the carpeted path up the hill to transition. The bike course closed and relatively flat. Again there is usually wind. After a couple rollers the runs course flattens out. There was power gel at some aid stations although not all Good  Luck

Response:

gw- I did Muncie last year and found it to be the "easiest" of the half-ironmans I’ve done.  Unlike Pigman and Buffalo Springs, the bike course is FLAT!  And on a closed course no less.  Prime for fast times.  The run is likewise flat and has some, but not a lot, of shade.  I recall the run aid stations well stocked, but can’t remember what brand they had.  They also had iced towels — very nice!   The weather will be the biggest wild card.  The day before the race last year was hot (95F), humid and windy.  I was not looking forward to these conditions.  But on race day some sort of weather front came thru and cleared out the humidity and dropped the temp by 20 degrees. The wind however remained.   It was not a lot of fun swimming 1.2 miles in a 20 mph wind.  The lake had white caps on it.  Oh, and no wetsuit either.  Water temp was around 82F. Have fun.  It was a great race on a safe course with a super organization running it. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Muncie will be my first 1/2IM.  To prepare a plan for race day I would benifit from knowing a bit more about the bike and run course terrain and aid stations.  What has been the race drink?  What kind of food/bars/gu is available on the bike course? It looks like mid 90’s this weekend here in Louisville KY (Shelbyville should be fun) and not much cooler for Muncie.  I’d be interested in talking with anyone who would be at Shelbyville and who has or will be raceing Muncie. Thanks, gw. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Your in big trouble. I’m doing Muncie this year, and I noticed that their brochures

didn’t mention water temp/wetsuits.  Are wetsuits ALWAYS illegal, or is it a race-day call? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll be in big trouble if I can’t use my wetsuit!! Thanks, Rich gw- I did Muncie last year and found it to be the "easiest" of the half-ironmans I’ve done.  Unlike Pigman and Buffalo Springs, the bike course is FLAT!  And on a closed course no less.  Prime for fast times.  The run is likewise flat and has some, but not a lot, of shade.  I recall the run aid stations well stocked, but can’t remember what brand they had.  They also had iced towels — very nice! The weather will be the biggest wild card.  The day before the race last year was hot (95F), humid and windy.  I was not looking forward to these conditions.  But on race day some sort of weather front came thru and cleared out the humidity and dropped the temp by 20 degrees. The wind however remained. It was not a lot of fun swimming 1.2 miles in a 20 mph wind. The lake had white caps on it.  Oh, and no wetsuit either.  Water temp was around 82F. Have fun.  It was a great race on a safe course with a super organization running it. Mike Muncie will be my first 1/2IM.  To prepare a plan for race day I would benifit from knowing a bit more about the bike and run course terrain and aid stations.  What has been the race drink?  What kind of food/bars/gu is available on the bike course? It looks like mid 90’s this weekend here in Louisville KY (Shelbyville should be fun) and not much cooler for Muncie.  I’d be interested in talking with anyone who would be at Shelbyville and who has or will be raceing Muncie. Thanks, gw. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can

also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I drove around the bike course last week – at least the course shown on their website. (With construction everywhere in Indiana, it could always change) Mostly country roads except for a few miles on four-lane Indiana 32. Road surfaces looked fairly decent most places – a few rough spots but shouldn’t be anything unmanageable. Little if any shade – if it’s hot, no relief here. No major hills – the biggest hill on the course appears to be a railroad overpass just before you get onto Indiana 32. Not sure where the run course goes this year but if it’s the same as last year the roads are similar to the bike course.    I don’t remember much about the aid stations except that they were every mile on the run, and had water, sports drink (brand?) and cold towels. Bob Leckron Indianapolis

Response:

Muncie will be my first 1/2IM.  To prepare a plan for race day I would benifit from knowing a bit more about the bike and run course terrain and aid stations.  What has been the race drink?  What kind of food/bars/gu is available on the bike course? It looks like mid 90’s this weekend here in Louisville KY (Shelbyville should be fun) and not much cooler for Muncie.  I’d be interested in talking with anyone who would be at Shelbyville and who has or will be raceing Muncie. Thanks, gw. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

I would agree with Mike. The biggest thing to be prepared for is the heat and humidity.  Usually, the combination of heat, humidity, and lack of shade tend to be the toughest things to contend with, assuming you are in good shape to do the distances.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gw- I did Muncie last year and found it to be the "easiest" of the half-ironmans I’ve done.  Unlike Pigman and Buffalo Springs, the bike course is FLAT!  And on a closed course no less.  Prime for fast times.  The run is likewise flat and has some, but not a lot, of shade.  I recall the run aid stations well stocked, but can’t remember what brand they had.  They also had iced towels — very nice! The weather will be the biggest wild card.  The day before the race last year was hot (95F), humid and windy.  I was not looking forward to these conditions.  But on race day some sort of weather front came thru and cleared out the humidity and dropped the temp by 20 degrees. The wind however remained. It was not a lot of fun swimming 1.2 miles in a 20 mph wind.  The lake had white caps on it.  Oh, and no wetsuit either.  Water temp was around 82F. Have fun.  It was a great race on a safe course with a super organization running it. Mike Muncie will be my first 1/2IM.  To prepare a plan for race day I would benifit from knowing a bit more about the bike and run course terrain and aid stations.  What has been the race drink?  What kind of food/bars/gu is available on the bike course? It looks like mid 90’s this weekend here in Louisville KY (Shelbyville should be fun) and not much cooler for Muncie.  I’d be interested in talking with anyone who would be at Shelbyville and who has or will be raceing Muncie. Thanks, gw. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

Hello all.  I recently entered a heated argument with a former kinesiology professor of mine.  I argued that the fitness industry in Canada (similar to that of the US) offers few meaningful employment opportunities for those who have earned a sports science degree at the bachelor level.  For example, most fitness facilities in Canada pay a paltry $10/hr CDN at best for a consultant who spent 4 years of hard studying and around $40000 for the degree.  Here’s a scenario: you’re an overweight prospective client at a fitness centre. You have 2 choices of fitness consultant: 1 is a bubbly, enthusiastic, dynamo who’s just aching to get you into shape.  S/he doesn’t have a lot of qualifications. No degree.  The second consultant has extensive training, but is not a bubbly babbling idiot.  S/he offers few buzzwords, is not trying to hock product, and can only offer sound advice.  No shortcuts, in other words.  Who should the client go for?  In my experience, the client will choose the bubbly consultant. Most clients want a friend to hold their hand as their main requirement.  In fact, if anyone disputes this, I actually had a fitness centre manager demand this "bubbly" quality as the main requirement for employment.  I think I made a big mistake in my choice of degree… — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science, MCP, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick

Response:

Hi Andre, For a fitness consultant I would rather have someone like you who is knowledgeable and could help me improve my performance.  Bubbly people annoy me.  Highly educated ones tend to be aloof tho, and I would feel inferior about my 7:30 minute mile pace, my 25 seconds to cross the pool, and my (now dusty) bike.  I’d think you were too good to help me and would be overly sensitive to the slightest rejection.  So maybe that is the problem, you just don’t "sync" with the usual, overweight-type.  I guess you need to develop a "bedside manner" to make us at ease! The other way to go would be to specialize in elite athletes. Thea Before you buy.

Response:

Unfortunately, I think you’ve really hit the nail on the head with your comments, Andre…I’m a bit surprised that your former kinesiology professor took a markedly contrary position, at least to the point that a heated argument could develop. I don’t blame you for feeling a bit disillusioned, but I hope that you don’t place too much blame on academia in general. My experience from knocking around several universities and from conversations with friends/colleages who are faculty at others is that the major increase in kinesiology degree programs/courses/students over the last 10-15 years is driven by public demand, i.e., there are a lot of people interested in sports/health/fitness/exercise, and universities are usually just responding to this demand, not creating it in the 1st place by making exaggerated claims w/ respect to job opportunities. It might (or might not) also be reassuring to know that this is not a new problem…historically, there were only really been three routes people w/ master’s degrees in exercise physiology/exercise science (which is all that used to be available – undergrad degrees in this field are really a fairly new thing) could take: 1) go on and get a Ph.D. and compete for a faculty position, 2) work in cardiac rehab, or 3) use the training/degree as a springboard to something else (e.g., physical therapy school). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all.  I recently entered a heated argument with a former kinesiology professor of mine.  I argued that the fitness industry in Canada (similar to that of the US) offers few meaningful employment opportunities for those who have earned a sports science degree at the bachelor level.  For example, most fitness facilities in Canada pay a paltry $10/hr CDN at best for a consultant who spent 4 years of hard studying and around $40000 for the degree.  Here’s a scenario: you’re an overweight prospective client at a fitness centre. You have 2 choices of fitness consultant: 1 is a bubbly, enthusiastic, dynamo who’s just aching to get you into shape.  S/he doesn’t have a lot of qualifications. No degree.  The second consultant has extensive training, but is not a bubbly babbling idiot.  S/he offers few buzzwords, is not trying to hock product, and can only offer sound advice.  No shortcuts, in other words.  Who should the client go for?  In my experience, the client will choose the bubbly consultant. Most clients want a friend to hold their hand as their main requirement.  In fact, if anyone disputes this, I actually had a fitness centre manager demand this "bubbly" quality as the main requirement for employment.  I think I made a big mistake in my choice of degree… — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science, MCP, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick

– Andrew Coggan Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all.  I recently entered a heated argument with a former kinesiology professor of mine.  I argued that the fitness industry in Canada (similar to that of the US) offers few meaningful employment opportunities for those who have earned a sports science degree at the bachelor level.  For example, most fitness facilities in Canada pay a paltry $10/hr CDN at best for a consultant who spent 4 years of hard studying and around $40000 for the degree.  Here’s a scenario: you’re an overweight prospective client at a fitness centre. You have 2 choices of fitness consultant: 1 is a bubbly, enthusiastic, dynamo who’s just aching to get you into shape.  S/he doesn’t have a lot of qualifications. No degree.  The second consultant has extensive training, but is not a bubbly babbling idiot.  S/he offers few buzzwords, is not trying to hock product, and can only offer sound advice.  No shortcuts, in other words.  Who should the client go for?  In my experience, the client will choose the bubbly consultant. Most clients want a friend to hold their hand as their main requirement.  In fact, if anyone disputes this, I actually had a fitness centre manager demand this "bubbly" quality as the main requirement for employment.  I think I made a big mistake in my choice of degree…

Being able to motivate someone is over half the battle.  Let’s face it, when you’re in the middle of a serious workout, a cerebral approach isn’t going to do much good, since the only part of the brain still getting oxygen is the stem…  ;-) That doesn’t mean a trained, experienced consultant has to come off like an airhead, but the combination of enthusiasm, drive AND knowledge would be hard to beat.  I you can communicate the technical aspects in a way that the potential customer can understand, AND show them that you’ll be there to push, cajole, and harrass them when they need it… you should be at a great advantage over Ms. Bubblehead. But in the end, the career you’ve chosen is a "people position" as much as a "technical position".  You have to be good at both to succeed. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $695 ti frame

Response:

First Andre, nice subject header.  Just wave a red flag in front of a bull, why don’t ya? <g What you have to realize is that most of them "fitness industry" is actually an entertainment industry.  Major Hollywood movies have been made about the fact that health clubs main profit comes from people who view them as an alternative to singles bars. (Remember "Perfect," one of Jaime Lee Curtis’ first films not involving sociopaths and buckets of blood?)  Perception is reality, and the vast majority of the market for personal trainers consists of people who want to spend money convincing themselves that they are either healthy or working to be healthy.  Most people who just want to get in shape just ask their doctor what they should do, and the fact that people in the few remaining hunting-gathering societies on the planet are, on the whole, in better shape than members of cultures that put people on the moon indicates that for the most part, getting in shape isn’t rocket science.  The one thing mnost people lack that keeps them from being more fit is discipline, not knowledge of kinesiology.  What most people NEED is a drill sergeant with an electric cattle prod and legal power to use it; what most people WANT is who will stroke their ego by telling them how well they’re doing, preferably someone fit and beautiful so the positive attention will feel even better.         If you are serious about the science of what you do, AND you want gainful, secure employment, your best bet is to pursue advanced studies to the point that you can work at synthesizing knowledge rather than applying it, doing research in an institutional setting or doing development work for companies like Nautilus.  Either that or become an entrepeneur and open your own major facility and pay other people to bubble at the customers, and train and supervise them to use as much of the science as you can in doing the front work.

Response:

Andre, Getting an education is never a mistake but applying it can be big challenge. Is a personal trainer in a fitness club all you’re interested in or qualified for?  Have you checked into opportunities with companies that are in the sporting goods or fitness business?  How about teaching?  Another angle is to approach corporations about fitness programs for employees. People skills are very important and often overshadow the technical nature of any career.  The Harvard Business School adage is: "An ounce of image is worth a pound of performance."  In some ways a degree is like a bicycle – where it takes you and how fast depends on you. Career development is a discipline all by itself.  Go to the library or bookstore and pick up a couple of books on job search techniques.  Read all of the trade publications that you can get your hands on.  Give your resume and business card to anyone who shows interest.  They’ll just keep renting you for 10 bucks an hour if you don’t sell yourself for more. Good luck. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .  I think I made a big mistake in my choice of degree… — Andre Charlebois BPE in exercise science, MCP, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick

Response:

Agree with Brian and I must say his response was well written.  My wife had a major similar to yours Andrea. When I met her 20 years ago she had just finished college and was a lifeguard at the YMCA.  That was 20 years ago, times haven’t changed much.  She’s been an employee of the telephone company now for a little over 15 years.  Lifegaurding at the Y with a BS wasn’t gonna pay the bills. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First Andre, nice subject header.  Just wave a red flag in front of a bull, why don’t ya? <g What you have to realize is that most of them "fitness industry" is actually an entertainment industry.  Major Hollywood movies have been made about the fact that health clubs main profit comes from people who view them as an alternative to singles bars. (Remember "Perfect," one of Jaime Lee Curtis’ first films not involving sociopaths and buckets of blood?)  Perception is reality, and the vast majority of the market for personal trainers consists of people who want to spend money convincing themselves that they are either healthy or working to be healthy.  Most people who just want to get in shape just ask their doctor what they should do, and the fact that people in the few remaining hunting-gathering societies on the planet are, on the whole, in better shape than members of cultures that put people on the moon indicates that for the most part, getting in shape isn’t rocket science.  The one thing mnost people lack that keeps them from being more fit is discipline, not knowledge of kinesiology.  What most people NEED is a drill sergeant with an electric cattle prod and legal power to use it; what most people WANT is who will stroke their ego by telling them how well they’re doing, preferably someone fit and beautiful so the positive attention will feel even better. If you are serious about the science of what you do, AND you want gainful, secure employment, your best bet is to pursue advanced studies to the point that you can work at synthesizing knowledge rather than applying it, doing research in an institutional setting or doing development work for companies like Nautilus.  Either that or become an entrepeneur and open your own major facility and pay other people to bubble at the customers, and train and supervise them to use as much of the science as you can in doing the front work.

Response:

3) use the training/degree as a springboard to something else (e.g., physical therapy school).

in the united states there is a massive glut of new grad physical therapists.  jobs are definitely much more difficult to come by and salaries have decreased by 20-40% over the last few years for some of the most saturated markets. Mark Linenberg                                        o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

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Remember your in sells . Your selling a lifestyle, your self, your program. I think most people in sells are not successful if their not a little enthusiastic. It may be wrong that it’s this way but many times you need good packageing before people will pay attention to your product. After you get a reputation built for producing results then this might not be as important — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)

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What most people NEED is a drill sergeant with an electric cattle prod and legal power to use it;

Now THAT sounds like a fun job! hahaha Thea Before you buy.

Response:

What most people NEED is a drill sergeant with an electric cattle prod and legal power to use it; Now THAT sounds like a fun job!

I am sure there are openings in the "correctional" ministries of certain countries.

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Question:

<<waiting 15 sec to repass Steve – You do not have to wait 15 sec to re-pass once overtaken.  Sec 5.10g states, "The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the drafting zone before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist.  In no case, however, shall a participant move into the path of another participant possessing the right-of-way." Have a great 98 race season. Rick Kranias USAT Official/Mid-Atlantic

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Would a cycle bell be just too naff to fit and use ??? Otherwise, seems like a wise precaution when you’ve got strong riders coming up FAST behind very tired/weak/bonked riders.   Miles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about not moving and lettig him/her bump off you? John, I would not recommend this. At Wildflower, I was passing a man at high speed, he suddenly swerved left just as I came around him. I was riding the aero bars and had no chance. I crashed hard, destroyed my handlebars and helmet, and had to drop out of the race. Because there was no warning that he was going to swerve, I could not prepare myself to be bumped. If you spend all your riding time expecting to be bumped, you would pretty much have to ride in upright road-race position with your hands on the brake hoods. Sounds like a bike race to me. Cathy

–  "Focus. Relaxed Form. Stay smooth. Flow. Breathe."   – gapo ‘98 Cut the .europe if you prefer to reply by email

Response:

Cathy, I note your last sentence here as it points out clearly what part of the problem(perhaps the whole problem) with the bike leg in a triathlon. What are we actually doing while riding the bike portion of a triathlon? Is it a bike road race? Well, not exactly. Is it a time trial? Well, not exactly?   In reality it is an odd hybrid of competitive cycling that is utterly unique to the sport of triathlon. I will admit that it is probably closer to time trialing. However, there is head to head competition out on the road. When someone passes you, there is a motivation to pass them back. However, one must adhere to the unique rules of the road(no drafting, no blocking, waiting 15 sec to repass etc . .) that have been drafted up(no pun intended) for the bike leg of a triathlon. The restrictions on drafting inhibit many of the obvious tacticle dynamics witnessed in a bike road race. In some ways it can be very confusing to the uninitiated. Steve Fleck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about not moving and lettig him/her bump off you? John, I would not recommend this. At Wildflower, I was passing a man at high speed, he suddenly swerved left just as I came around him. I was riding the aero bars and had no chance. I crashed hard, destroyed my handlebars and helmet, and had to drop out of the race. Because there was no warning that he was going to swerve, I could not prepare myself to be bumped. If you spend all your riding time expecting to be bumped, you would pretty much have to ride in upright road-race position with your hands on the brake hoods. Sounds like a bike race to me. Cathy

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What about not moving and lettig him/her bump off you?

John, I would not recommend this. At Wildflower, I was passing a man at high speed, he suddenly swerved left just as I came around him. I was riding the aero bars and had no chance. I crashed hard, destroyed my handlebars and helmet, and had to drop out of the race. Because there was no warning that he was going to swerve, I could not prepare myself to be bumped. If you spend all your riding time expecting to be bumped, you would pretty much have to ride in upright road-race position with your hands on the brake hoods. Sounds like a bike race to me. Cathy

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Does anyohe else enjoy this bubbly liquid ambrosia as much as I do? Give me Red Bull or give me death! Greg Pressler

I don’t know if I’d go that far but I know it saved my butt on many a Sunday night when I was stationed in Germany.  After a hard weekend of skiing and partying it was just the ticket to keep me alert (as in wired!) during a high- speed blast on the autobahn.  The only problem was that nasty taste and the feeling that my hair was doing the wave while little ants crawled around under my skin.  Those minor inconveniences aside, I’d still slam two cans when I stopped for gas after crossing the Swiss border.  Worked every time! Gordon (Yakabo) Fesenger

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Red Bull tastes like cough medicine I used to take as a kid, only watered down a little.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Andrew Peabody) writes: Just returned from Blackwater Eagleman and felt compelled to mention how clean the race was in terms of drafting.  After spending the off- season listening and reading about all the drafting problems in non- draft races, I was happy to participate in a race where competitors took it upon themselves to avoid drafting.  I guess it proves there are triathletes who can observe the no draft rule.  Because in this race, I didn’t see as much as a hint of drafting.   Yeah, it looked pretty clean, except for a couple 2-3 person packs I saw out there. Nothing at all like Gulf Coast, but the larger gap between wave starts, overdistance swim, and about 800 fewer people on the road made a big difference. BTW, my 4 minute penalty (for anyone who studies the results like I do) was for crossing the yellow line to avoid a rider who swerved left as I was passing. I didn’t get his number to see if he got a blocking call but had I not crossed the line we’d both have been done with the race early. I knew there was a motorcycle right behind me but i saw no other course of action.

What about not moving and lettig him/her bump off you? JT

Response:

BOPpers of the world, unite!  Stand up (or sit down if you’re too tired) and proclaim your right to equal bagels, fruit, and Red Bull (yuck)! Tri-Baby

Gotta call ya’ on this one, Tricia.  Red Bull is, in a word, AWESOME!!  My only beef about it is the cost, which I’ve generally found to be around $1.99 PER CAN!!!  Does anyohe else enjoy this bubbly liquid ambrosia as much as I do? (and apparently, I’m not alone, witnessed by sponsorships of Hellreigel, Zach, et.al.!!) Give me Red Bull or give me death! Greg Pressler

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BTW, my 4 minute penalty (for anyone who studies the results like I do) was for crossing the yellow line to avoid a rider who swerved left as I was passing. I didn’t get his number to see if he got a blocking call but had I not crossed the line we’d both have been done with the race early.

I really feel for you on this one, Andrew; though I didn’t get penalized for it, the exact same thing happened to me at Wildflower this year.  I was hollering at the top of my lungs, "On your left!" (I actually hollered it twice) but this guy was blocking and just wouldn’t move.  I was coming up behind him at a speed so much greater than his own that I had absolutely no choice when he failed to move right, and over the double yellow I went.  Ouch. My only suggestion would be to have some food and drink left for the later finishers. Those guys and gals work hard for a long time and it would be nice to have something for them when they finally get in. At least keep something out until the course is closed. Just my .02.

Hear, hear!  I heartily agree on this one for all races in general. Though I still cling desperately to MOP status (just barely), at a lot of races I start in one of the last waves, effectively rendering me a real-time BOPper.  As such, I frequently find slim pickin’s at the post-race spread, making me feel sorta like the grudgingly accommodated poor relation visiting from the country. BOPpers are people too, ya know!  And, as Andrew points out, we’re often out there working hard for a lot longer than the fast fellas, and therefore are in even greater need of sustenance and succor by the time we finish. BOPpers of the world, unite!  Stand up (or sit down if you’re too tired) and proclaim your right to equal bagels, fruit, and Red Bull (yuck)! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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I concur fully with Rich, the race was pretty clean where I was, which incidentally, was another area code altogether from Rich!  Congrats on your great race. Augie Calabrese – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just returned from Blackwater Eagleman and felt compelled to mention how clean the race was in terms of drafting.  After spending the off- season listening and reading about all the drafting problems in non- draft races, I was happy to participate in a race where competitors took it upon themselves to avoid drafting.  I guess it proves there are triathletes who can observe the no draft rule.  Because in this race, I didn’t see as much as a hint of drafting.  Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

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This is partly due to the total number of athletes competing in the event, the size of the waves, and how far apart the waves are. This race has a firm maximum number of triathletes. The races that have severe drafting problems, like Gulf Coast, have at least twice as many athletes, larger wave sizes, yet comparably narrow roads on the bike route. I hope Rob Vigorito sticks with his formula because it works very well, and I wish some of the other IMQ race directors would take note when they set their field sizes and wave sizes. Cathy Corning – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just returned from Blackwater Eagleman and felt compelled to mention how clean the race was in terms of drafting.  After spending the off- season listening and reading about all the drafting problems in non- draft races, I was happy to participate in a race where competitors took it upon themselves to avoid drafting.  I guess it proves there are triathletes who can observe the no draft rule.  Because in this race, I didn’t see as much as a hint of drafting.  

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Also due to the long swim, which definitely spread everybody out more than usual – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just returned from Blackwater Eagleman and felt compelled to mention how clean the race was in terms of drafting.  After spending the off- season listening and reading about all the drafting problems in non- draft races, I was happy to participate in a race where competitors took it upon themselves to avoid drafting.  I guess it proves there are triathletes who can observe the no draft rule.  Because in this race, I didn’t see as much as a hint of drafting.   Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

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Second season, no problems from the front of the pack (I was about the 6th person entering the transition area heading to the run). I was alone almost all of the time. It’s great to enjoy that freedom!                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   ‘98 IMC, GCT, BSLT IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

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Just returned from Blackwater Eagleman and felt compelled to mention how clean the race was in terms of drafting.  After spending the off- season listening and reading about all the drafting problems in non- draft races, I was happy to participate in a race where competitors took it upon themselves to avoid drafting.  I guess it proves there are triathletes who can observe the no draft rule.  Because in this race, I didn’t see as much as a hint of drafting.  

 Yeah, it looked pretty clean, except for a couple 2-3 person packs I saw out there. Nothing at all like Gulf Coast, but the larger gap between wave starts, overdistance swim, and about 800 fewer people on the road made a big difference. BTW, my 4 minute penalty (for anyone who studies the results like I do) was for crossing the yellow line to avoid a rider who swerved left as I was passing. I didn’t get his number to see if he got a blocking call but had I not crossed the line we’d both have been done with the race early. I knew there was a motorcycle right behind me but i saw no other course of action. I talked to the head official after the race but it wasn’t his call and he said he couldn’t reverse it. Oh, well, since the 4 minutes didn’t affect my AG placing and I was still walking, with no broken or bruised parts (on me or my bike) I didn’t see any point in arguing.   All in all I had a good time and I’ll be back. Vigo puts on a top notch event. My only suggestion would be to have some food and drink left for the later finishers. Those guys and gals work hard for a long time and it would be nice to have something for them when they finally get in. At least keep something out until the course is closed. Just my .02. Cheers, Andrew — Andrew Peabody Miami

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Just returned from Blackwater Eagleman and felt compelled to mention how clean the race was in terms of drafting.  After spending the off- season listening and reading about all the drafting problems in non- draft races, I was happy to participate in a race where competitors took it upon themselves to avoid drafting.  I guess it proves there are triathletes who can observe the no draft rule.  Because in this race, I didn’t see as much as a hint of drafting.    Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

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Question:

I take two Tylenol PMs before a big race. It has mild sleep-aid that I have never, ever felt the next day. I wake up very refreshed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody ! My problem is: I can hardly get any sleep before my long distance races because I`m woorrying all the time. Last year I got only two hours of sleep before an half IM race. Well, the race worked out fine, but I would have preferred 6-7 hours of sleep. I

Question:

where can I find tubes with long stems for deep wheels, thanks jeff

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Some sources for long stemmed tubes are Triathlete Zombies, Steve’s Multisport and Bike Nashbar, all of whom have web sites. FWIW these tubes are pricey, but are worth it.  Its nice not having to deal with those stupid leaking valve extenders that never quite seem to work as advertised. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -where can I find tubes with long stems for deep wheels, thanks jeff

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Question:

I will be in SF August 19-25 and need to get in a 15 mile "long run" one day while I am there.  Any suggestions of a good (safe?) route? Thank you. Mary  

Response:

I will be in SF August 19-25 and need to get in a 15 mile "long run" one day while I am there.  Any suggestions of a good (safe?) route?

start at the marina green, run to and across the GG bridge, down into the town of sausilito and back to marina green nice views and a challenging route! — /*  Mike D. Kail                 |  voice:  (619) 793-3359  */ /*  Unix System Administrator    |  fax:    (619) 793-2950  */

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Some SF runs, and others that have public transit are at: http://www.slip.net/~leeway/therun.html SF fun stuff: http://www.slip.net/leeway/trilinks.html scroll towards the bottom of the page. Regards, Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www/slip.net/~leeway/

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I will be in SF August 19-25 and need to get in a 15 mile "long run" one day while I am there.  Any suggestions of a good (safe?) route?

Start in Golden Gate Park, run to the beach, turn right past Cliff House and take the trail around Land’s End (ask locally), follow the streets to Golden Gate bridge, across the bridge and back and return to starting point.  You can add extra miles by circling the park.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in SF August 19-25 and need to get in a 15 mile "long run" one day while I am there.  Any suggestions of a good (safe?) route? start at the marina green, run to and across the GG bridge, down into the town of sausilito and back to marina green nice views and a challenging route! — /*  Mike D. Kail                 |  voice:  (619) 793-3359  */ /*  Unix System Administrator    |  fax:    (619) 793-2950  */

I prefer running to McDonalds! Bill

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San Francisco is fairly urban, so you may want runs that minimize street crossings and traffic lights.  The shoreline is in pretty good condition from Fort Mason west to the Bridge, golf course, Land’s End, ocean beach, zoo, Merced Lake, etc.  There is one tricky place just after the GG Bridge in a place called China Beach where you have to run through some housing. Another possibility is to through in a loop of GG Park into the mix.  That is about six miles back and forth.  Interesting stuff, but some traffic and street people.  Then you can add some Ocean Beach miles to lengthen your run.

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Question:

   Does anyone know where I can find pictures on the internet of Allen, Welch, Smyers, Scott, Tinley, and other pros?  I’ve got the ones "Triathlete" mag. had but for some reason I can’t find any more.    I’m doing a project on Triathlons and I need pictures. Thanks a lot. Marc

Response:

Hi Tricia, I can’t believe you haven’t heard my response from anybody else!!! I just take the sponge and straw out of the bottle and turn my bike upside down…. Is there something to your question that I’m missing?   Cheers, Rachel

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Cut a 45 degree (angle) slit in the sponge up top, angling the straw to the lowest portion of bottle. It give more options in positioning; and shoves the straw tip to the lowest point. You won’t leave much in there. Rotate bottle in strap to obtain best location.\ Experiment! IronBut

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. s.walltech.com!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!in -

Question:

I am planning to run the SFO HM this Sunday (28). How difficult is the course? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. gopi

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I am planning to run the SFO HM this Sunday (28). How difficult is the course? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. gopi

Is this the Home Depot 1/2? Starts in Golden Gate Park, runs around the park a little hilly, goes down the Great Highway to and around the lake, flat back to Golden Gate Park, up hill into the park and finish. Not a tough course. Probably cool. Never saw much wind. Ray Mascia

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I am planning to run the SFO HM this Sunday (28). How difficult is the course? Any suggestions? In addition to Raymond’s comments, I have a short synopsis on my tripage. The direct URL is:

http://www.slip.net/~leeway/marathons.html Other running sites and events can be found via the homepage. Hope it doesn’t rain! Lee Rudin San Francisco Bay Area Triathlon Training Sites http://www.slip.net/~leeway/

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