Question:

I have recently purchased some tri-bars for my road bike (Cannondale R500) and am looking for opinions on whether or not I should adjust my seat post angle. There is a lot of information out there most of which says that I should move my saddle forward and/or reverse my seat post to achieve a seat post angle of around 78 deg (it is currently 73-74). However I’ve just got back from my local bike shop and and the mechanic there (who’s a state champ time trialler) says that that’s old thinking and most people who do time trials or tris have gone back to conventional seat post angles of around 74 deg. He actually talked me out of buying a forward seat post from him so it seems a fairly honest opinion. I would be interested to hear how other’s have set there bikes up. If you do respond could you let me know your level of experience/knowledge. Although I would be greatful for all responses I would probably place a higher weighting on a more experienced person’s opinion. Thanks. David Perks.

Response:

what places around indiana can ppl suggest? thank.s -anu           "There’ll be plenty of time to rest in the grave." -Paul Erdos

Response:

to back up lloyd, when boardman broke the hour record (not the new old one, the one where you could use some mechanical edge…) the seat tube angle was 80 degres… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From your posting you are in Australia?? I would take anything an Australian bike shop mechanic says about Triathlons and bike set-up and throw it in the bin! I’ve built TT bikes for the whole AIS TT squad and I seriously doubt they have done much, if any, testing with seattube angles etc to be able to much such a big judgement call about what some might perceive as simply a "steep" angled set-up. There are more than enough websites out there with handfuls of very useful advice for setting up a specific person in a good Triathlon TT position. That’s what it is all about fitting a specific person and getting an optimal seattube angle/bike design for that person not making blanket statements about "steep" angled designs simply because it didn’t work for one person. I have sponsored and designed bikes for athletes who have won at just about every major competition from Sprint distance to Ultraman and I have never though or recommended that any of the people I have designed bikes for would be better off on a "std" road bike set-up. My level of knowledge is about on par with my golf game. Lloyd I have recently purchased some tri-bars for my road bike (Cannondale R500) and am looking for opinions on whether or not I should adjust my seat post angle. There is a lot of information out there most of which says that I should move my saddle forward and/or reverse my seat post to achieve a seat post angle of around 78 deg (it is currently 73-74). However I’ve just got back from my local bike shop and and the mechanic there (who’s a state champ time trialler) says that that’s old thinking and most people who do time trials or tris have gone back to conventional seat post angles of around 74 deg. He actually talked me out of buying a forward seat post from him so it seems a fairly honest opinion. I would be interested to hear how other’s have set there bikes up. If you do respond could you let me know your level of experience/knowledge. Although I would be greatful for all responses I would probably place a higher weighting on a more experienced person’s opinion. Thanks. David Perks.

Response:

Check out John Cobb’s website.  He has done extensive work in the wind tunnels at Texas A&M with Lance Armstrong, USPS and a number of high profile time trial champions and elite triahletes. http://www.bicyclesports.com/ I have recently purchased some tri-bars for my road bike (Cannondale R500)

and am looking for opinions on whether or not I should adjust my seat post angle. There is a lot of information out there most of which says that I should move

my saddle forward and/or reverse my seat post to achieve a seat post angle of around 78 deg (it is currently 73-74). However I’ve just got back from my local bike shop and and the mechanic there (who’s a state champ time trialler) says that that’s old thinking and most people who do time trials or tris have gone back to conventional seat post angles of around 74 deg. He actually talked me out of buying a forward seat post from him so it seems a fairly honest opinion. I would be interested to hear how other’s have set there bikes up. If you do

respond could you let me know your level of experience/knowledge.Although I would be greatful for all responses I would probably place a higher weighting on a more experienced person’s opinion.

Response:

Thanks for the advise and web site. Now to the problem at hand. I want to experiment with seat angles on my road   bike (Cannondale R500). The seat angle is around 74 deg now (based on the measuring method at www.slowtwitch.com) and I’d like to increase it to around 77 deg to start experimenting. I can’t get my seat forward enough to give me this angle and my seat post is not reversible. Is it as simple as getting one of those Profile forward seat posts and go from there? If that is the answer then how does that sit with conventional wisdom that says knee (or dimple behind the knee) should be over the peddle spindle when the peddles are in the ‘quarter to three position’? Most bike fitting articles say that the saddle should be positioned to achieve this result not to get a particular seat tube angle. Is it a case of making a sacrifice in power to achieve more of an aerodynamic gain?. Or does this position help to preserve ‘running muscles’ for when the bike leg has finished? Slowtwitch say it is to preserve the 90 deg angle between trunk and seat post that is the most powerful postion. If this is the case then they are saying that the ‘knee of spindle’ rule does not apply in the aero position. I know some of you will think ‘Just go out and buy a new tri bike from a reputable dealer and have them set it up for you’ but unfortunately that’s not an option right now. Lloyd, I’d be interested to hear your ideas. Thanks, Dave.

Response:

I don’t set people up with much thought to the position of the knee joint, in fact I don’t remember ever checking. Moving your seat forward does change a lot of the dynamics of cycling and how the power is applied to the pedal and what muscle groups bare the brunt of the load, as Dan rightly says in his articles the angle of your thigh/torso is important more so than moving your seat back to get a theoreticaly perfect knee position. As you move forward your seat height will change you will raise the seat and you will also find your ability to spin is decreased. My recomendation would be to play around but remember to get your saddle height correct then give it some time not just a quick squirt around the block. LW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the advise and web site. Now to the problem at hand. I want to experiment with seat angles on my road bike (Cannondale R500). The seat angle is around 74 deg now (based on the measuring method at www.slowtwitch.com) and I’d like to increase it to around 77 deg to start experimenting. I can’t get my seat forward enough to give me this angle and my seat post is not reversible. Is it as simple as getting one of those Profile forward seat posts and go from there? If that is the answer then how does that sit with conventional wisdom that says knee (or dimple behind the knee) should be over the peddle spindle when the peddles are in the ‘quarter to three position’? Most bike fitting articles say that the saddle should be positioned to achieve this result not to get a particular seat tube angle. Is it a case of making a sacrifice in power to achieve more of an aerodynamic gain?. Or does this position help to preserve ‘running muscles’ for when the bike leg has finished? Slowtwitch say it is to preserve the 90 deg angle between trunk and seat post that is the most powerful postion. If this is the case then they are saying that the ‘knee of spindle’ rule does not apply in the aero position. I know some of you will think ‘Just go out and buy a new tri bike from a reputable dealer and have them set it up for you’ but unfortunately that’s not an option right now. Lloyd, I’d be interested to hear your ideas. Thanks, Dave.

Response:

From your posting you are in Australia?? I would take anything an Australian bike shop mechanic says about Triathlons and bike set-up and throw it in the bin! I’ve built TT bikes for the whole AIS TT squad and I seriously doubt they have done much, if any, testing with seattube angles etc to be able to much such a big judgement call about what some might perceive as simply a "steep" angled set-up. There are more than enough websites out there with handfuls of very useful advice for setting up a specific person in a good Triathlon TT position. That’s what it is all about fitting a specific person and getting an optimal seattube angle/bike design for that person not making blanket statements about "steep" angled designs simply because it didn’t work for one person. I have sponsored and designed bikes for athletes who have won at just about every major competition from Sprint distance to Ultraman and I have never though or recommended that any of the people I have designed bikes for would be better off on a "std" road bike set-up. My level of knowledge is about on par with my golf game. Lloyd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently purchased some tri-bars for my road bike (Cannondale R500) and am looking for opinions on whether or not I should adjust my seat post angle. There is a lot of information out there most of which says that I should move my saddle forward and/or reverse my seat post to achieve a seat post angle of around 78 deg (it is currently 73-74). However I’ve just got back from my local bike shop and and the mechanic there (who’s a state champ time trialler) says that that’s old thinking and most people who do time trials or tris have gone back to conventional seat post angles of around 74 deg. He actually talked me out of buying a forward seat post from him so it seems a fairly honest opinion. I would be interested to hear how other’s have set there bikes up. If you do respond could you let me know your level of experience/knowledge. Although I would be greatful for all responses I would probably place a higher weighting on a more experienced person’s opinion. Thanks. David Perks.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me I heard somewhere that BobMac wrote in article I have one that is worse than this: Back in 1995 or so in a (name-less on purpose) triathlon on the ) South Carolina coast, one of the aid stations (run mile 3?) started running out of all fluids, so they diluted what they had left with SEAWATER ! I was told that by mile 4 there were dozens of traithletes on their knees, puking. That first "world championship" triathlon in Nice (IIRC) where the organizers heard that most competitors were happy with half-strength gatorade? Half-strength means you use half as much water, right? Same result, except the triathletes with their own support organizations ran on, while the other were out in a hurry. On the off-chance that you’re serious, no, ‘half strength’ means half as much active ingredient per volume unit, or twice as much water as the directions call for.  No wonder people got sick.

Yeah, I know that. You know that. The people who organized the supposedly "world class" race…. didn’t know that. BobMac

Response:

I’ve been in several races where garden hosewater (ie, reclaimed sewer water) has been passed out in a well-meaning but ill-advised effort to make up for supply shortages.  This is something I never really thought about.  A volunteer could put whatever they want into your drink and you would be hard pressed to find out who it was if the substance caused a reaction.  Yuck.  Seawater?  That’s just downright stupidity or colossal vindictiveness. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Hmmmm…I wonder if it was the beer Freestate brews for the bicyclists?  Yum! http://freestatebrewing.com/ Damn, I miss Lawrence Kansas.  That was the most interesting place I’ve ever lived. -Matt

Response:

I’ll have to second that Jeremy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmm…I wonder if it was the beer Freestate brews for the bicyclists? Yum! http://freestatebrewing.com/ Damn, I miss Lawrence Kansas.  That was the most interesting place I’ve ever lived. -Matt

Response:

I have one that is worse than this: Back in 1995 or so in a (name-less on purpose) triathlon on the ) South Carolina coast, one of the aid stations (run mile 3?) started running out of all fluids, so they diluted what they had left with SEAWATER ! I was told that by mile 4 there were dozens of traithletes on their knees, puking.

That first "world championship" triathlon in Nice (IIRC) where the organizers heard that most competitors were happy with half-strength gatorade? Half-strength means you use half as much water, right? Same result, except the triathletes with their own support organizations ran on, while the other were out in a hurry. BobMac Don’t get me started about French logic….

Response:

It seems to me I heard somewhere that BobMac wrote in article I have one that is worse than this: Back in 1995 or so in a (name-less on purpose) triathlon on the ) South Carolina coast, one of the aid stations (run mile 3?) started running out of all fluids, so they diluted what they had left with SEAWATER ! I was told that by mile 4 there were dozens of traithletes on their knees, puking. That first "world championship" triathlon in Nice (IIRC) where the organizers heard that most competitors were happy with half-strength gatorade? Half-strength means you use half as much water, right? Same result, except the triathletes with their own support organizations ran on, while the other were out in a hurry.

On the off-chance that you’re serious, no, ‘half strength’ means half as much active ingredient per volume unit, or twice as much water as the directions call for.  No wonder people got sick. — My new contact address is in Reply to: Don

Response:

Is that the 10k held out at Lone Star Lake?  From what I have heard that race has always been a mess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought I’d seen all the things that race organizers could do wrong (and they did a lot of them in this race), but this one surprised even me. At the second water station in the Governor’s Cup 10K, somewhere around mile 3 (the miles weren’t marked so I don’t know exactly), the water tasted of alcohol — beer, I think, though someone else thought it might be vodka. Several runners smelled it before they had any; others spit it out. I was pretty much wiped out and had it all the way down before it registered. This all came on top of a bunch of other serious screw-ups by the organizers: — The race started five minutes early while some runners were half a block away doing strides or stretching. The two-minute "penalty" may have cost me an age-group placing. — The miles weren’t marked well; I only saw one marker. — "Splits" were being read from stopwatches around the course, but they were at turns and intersections — in effect, placed at random. Not helpful at all. — Before reaching the finish line the runners had to make a loop around the parking lot. The loop was virtually unmarked, and it wasn’t on the course map provided with the race packet. I thought I was approaching the finish line (again, since the miles weren’t marked, I had no idea how far I’d run) but saw the narrow end of the chute was pointed toward me rather than away from me. I had to slow down and ask a race volunteer for directions. — The finish line ran out of water by the time I got there (50 minutes or so). Overall this was the worst job of putting on a race I’ve ever seen. (The Freedom Run 10K in Lenexa, Kansas, a few weeks ago was almost as bad.) Interestingly, there’s no race director listed in any of the race materials. Apparently no one wants to take responsibility. Best regards, — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

I have one that is worse than this: Back in 1995 or so in a (name-less on purpose) triathlon on the ) South Carolina coast, one of the aid stations (run mile 3?) started running out of all fluids, so they diluted what they had left with SEAWATER ! I was told that by mile 4 there were dozens of traithletes on their knees, puking. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

drink that beer http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/facialsallaround

Response:

There is a race in Wausau, WI called Kimberly’s Ru that is a similar joke of a effort. But as the RD told me last year, "it’s all for charity."

Response:

Whats wrong with you????? You do a little bit of running and you develop a sudden fear for beer? drink that beer http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/facialsallaround

– Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

Response:

Reggie, He couldn’t say for sure if it was beer.  remember: "the water tasted of alcohol — beer, I think, though someone else thought it might be vodka. Several runners smelled it before they had any; others spit it out." The worst part would be *not* knowing what it really was.  Heck if it were Miller lite I’d probably spit it out also!  ;-) Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whats wrong with you????? You do a little bit of running and you develop a sudden fear for beer? drink that beer http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/facialsallaround — Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

Response:

The water station might have been an unofficial one. I’ve been in races where some screwballs thought it would be funny to hand beer to the runners. Where were they after the race?

It was official, more or less where the course map said it would be. Best regards, — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

Is that the 10k held out at Lone Star Lake?  From what I have heard that race has always been a mess.

It wasn’t at Lone Star, but it might be the same race; I’m not sure. It was certainly a mess. And someone told me last year was worse. <shudder Best regards, — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

I thought I’d seen all the things that race organizers could do wrong (and they did a lot of them in this race), but this one surprised even me. At the second water station in the Governor’s Cup 10K, somewhere around mile 3 (the miles weren’t marked so I don’t know exactly), the water tasted of alcohol — beer, I think, though someone else thought it might be vodka. Several runners smelled it before they had any; others spit it out. I was pretty much wiped out and had it all the way down before it registered. This all came on top of a bunch of other serious screw-ups by the [snip]

The water station might have been an unofficial one. I’ve been in races where some screwballs thought it would be funny to hand beer to the runners. Where were they after the race? — Terry R. McConnell   Mathematics/304B Carnegie/Syracuse, N.Y. 13244-1150

Response:

I thought I’d seen all the things that race organizers could do wrong (and they did a lot of them in this race), but this one surprised even me. At the second water station in the Governor’s Cup 10K, somewhere around mile 3 (the miles weren’t marked so I don’t know exactly), the water tasted of alcohol — beer, I think, though someone else thought it might be vodka. Several runners smelled it before they had any; others spit it out. I was pretty much wiped out and had it all the way down before it registered. This all came on top of a bunch of other serious screw-ups by the organizers: — The race started five minutes early while some runners were half a block away doing strides or stretching. The two-minute "penalty" may have cost me an age-group placing. — The miles weren’t marked well; I only saw one marker. — "Splits" were being read from stopwatches around the course, but they were at turns and intersections — in effect, placed at random. Not helpful at all. — Before reaching the finish line the runners had to make a loop around the parking lot. The loop was virtually unmarked, and it wasn’t on the course map provided with the race packet. I thought I was approaching the finish line (again, since the miles weren’t marked, I had no idea how far I’d run) but saw the narrow end of the chute was pointed toward me rather than away from me. I had to slow down and ask a race volunteer for directions. — The finish line ran out of water by the time I got there (50 minutes or so). Overall this was the worst job of putting on a race I’ve ever seen. (The Freedom Run 10K in Lenexa, Kansas, a few weeks ago was almost as bad.) Interestingly, there’s no race director listed in any of the race materials. Apparently no one wants to take responsibility. Best regards, — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

Brian, But would you do it again? I was in 1/2 marathon where they ran out of cups on all the water stops on the return trip.  The didn’t have any sports drink left for the slower runners.  Then they also ran out of Sports drink at the end right before I got back. They did manage to get some sports drink later, but I’d never seen the likes of it before and wasn’t about to test that stuff out so far from home.  Heck you couldn’t even see what the drink looked like because of the container it was in. As for why they ran out of cups, well the cups were so small, people would take two of them, and it was basically an out and back with a 4 block loop for the turn around.  So that means each water stop should have stocked at least 4 cups per runner, or bigger cups. I feel so sorry for the people at the water stops that were trying to help the people out and couldn’t. But would I do it again.  I sure would, but if I do, I’ll be carrying my own water and have Sports drink stored in my Vehicle.  It was a *one* sponsor race by the way, so that would explain the low budget to me. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought I’d seen all the things that race organizers could do wrong (and they did a lot of them in this race), but this one surprised even me. At the second water station in the Governor’s Cup 10K, somewhere around mile 3 (the miles weren’t marked so I don’t know exactly), the water tasted of alcohol — beer, I think, though someone else thought it might be vodka. Several runners smelled it before they had any; others spit it out. I was pretty much wiped out and had it all the way down before it registered. This all came on top of a bunch of other serious screw-ups by the organizers: — The race started five minutes early while some runners were half a block away doing strides or stretching. The two-minute "penalty" may have cost me an age-group placing. — The miles weren’t marked well; I only saw one marker. — "Splits" were being read from stopwatches around the course, but they were at turns and intersections — in effect, placed at random. Not helpful at all. — Before reaching the finish line the runners had to make a loop around the parking lot. The loop was virtually unmarked, and it wasn’t on the course map provided with the race packet. I thought I was approaching the finish line (again, since the miles weren’t marked, I had no idea how far I’d run) but saw the narrow end of the chute was pointed toward me rather than away from me. I had to slow down and ask a race volunteer for directions. — The finish line ran out of water by the time I got there (50 minutes or so). Overall this was the worst job of putting on a race I’ve ever seen. (The Freedom Run 10K in Lenexa, Kansas, a few weeks ago was almost as bad.) Interestingly, there’s no race director listed in any of the race materials. Apparently no one wants to take responsibility. Best regards, — Brian P. Baresch Lawrence, Kansas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

Response:

Question:

Wooohooo Bunny!  Get A’s on your exams, lose 4 pounds — I’d say you’re having a pretty good week!!

It sure was a good week – and the weekend is swell, too! Thanks!!! Bunny Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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Thanks, Sis ) Hugs, Bunnykins …and the award goes to… Congrats on your loss!

Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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Atta girl Bunny….you get a 14carrot salute!! Betty

Mmmmmmm Carrotssssssssss <g Thanks, Betty! Bunny Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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Awwww thanks, Alice )) Hugs, SuperSmartSkinnyBunny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s my smart Bunny..WTG …Just super proud. You better get your rear in gear…I’m only 19 pounds from those Rushers…Give me one more A+ week and we’ll jump that group from behind together… <Trooper Hug for my Super Smart Skinny Bunny Have a great start spangled weekend. Alice 315/268/155…4/8/99…ww123 TREADING with the TROOPS…Keep this troop train moving.. Now  more rest stops…Focus,Focus…Water,Water…and Smile So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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I’m feeling pretty good about it.  Thanks, Joke – glad to "see" you again. Bunny That is great, you must be a proud and happy Bunny.

Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Response:

Wow Bunny! You’re really on a roll. An "A" and 4 lbs. loss. Congratulations!

Thanks, Mimo!!! Bunny Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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Thanks, Misty! Bunny Whoo hoo!!! FOUR big ones gone!!! WTG!

Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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Hehe Sue, I’m hopping as fast as my little size 10 wides will let me <g Thanks! Bunny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WOOOOOO HOOOOO Bunny! Congratulations on leaving the 300’s and losing 4 lbs!  You must have been hopping fast!! Sue So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows

Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Response:

WOOOOOO HOOOOO Bunny! Congratulations on leaving the 300’s and losing 4 lbs!  You must have been hopping fast!! Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows

Response:

What a SuperBunny you are, and you’ve got into the 200s too!  I send you thoughts of encouragement for the next stage of your journey. J 233/188/136 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Response:

Thanks, George – now hurry up – I want to catch up with Alice, but I can’t leave you behind. Hugs, Bunny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellent result, Bunny! Studying always put weight on me. Congratulations on getting rid of that ugly 3 on the left hand side of your weight. It’s a big milestone on the journey. George 335/313/300 (First Goal) Treading with the Troops So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….) Hey! Anybody seen my sig? It was here a minute ago!

Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Response:

So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows

Cheers, Kay 232/183/180 by Sept. (since 98/12/26) for e-mail reply, take "s" from the nest.

Response:

Congrats!! Bunny.  Keep on Choo Choo’n tatergrl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Got Water???? remove the p to send me an email note

Response:

(piggeybacking on dear George since I missed the original post) I’m so happy for you Bunny!  What a great milestone to break! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows

Rebecca (167)165/147/135-?

Response:

Excellent result, Bunny! Studying always put weight on me. Congratulations on getting rid of that ugly 3 on the left hand side of your weight. It’s a big milestone on the journey. George 335/313/300 (First Goal) Treading with the Troops – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Hey! Anybody seen my sig? It was here a minute ago!

Response:

Wooohooo Bunny!  Get A’s on your exams, lose 4 pounds — I’d say you’re having a pretty good week!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

– KC "Sometimes, in the pursuit of pleasure, we forget that what we are ultimately searching for is happiness."    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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Atta girl Bunny….you get a 14carrot salute!! Betty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

Sitting in Florida, enjoying those Shuttle vibrations! 263/???/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first!

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…and the award goes to… Congrats on your loss! Determined for me and for you, Kim 310/301.5/150 (6-2-99) Treading with the Troops

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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That is great, you must be a proud and happy Bunny. — Joke from Holland 264/236/150

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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That’s my smart Bunny..WTG …Just super proud. You better get your rear in gear…I’m only 19 pounds from those Rushers…Give me one more A+ week and we’ll jump that group from behind together… <Trooper Hug for my Super Smart Skinny Bunny Have a great start spangled weekend. Alice 315/268/155…4/8/99…ww123 TREADING with the TROOPS…Keep this troop train moving.. Now  more rest stops…Focus,Focus…Water,Water…and Smile

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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<So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the <torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my <eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the <last time. Wow Bunny! You’re really on a roll. An "A" and 4 lbs. loss. Congratulations! Mimo Drink More Water! 225/194/175(halfway mark)

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So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time.

Whoo hoo!!! FOUR big ones gone!!! WTG! Misty in Southern California 182/158.5/135 to reply, use geocities.com as the domain

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It must have been all that sauntering you did! Nice going!

hehe, yep – I’m in training for the Olympics – Nordic Sauntering. And the Triathalon – Sauntering, Sashaying, and HippityHopping <g Thanks! Bunny Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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It must have been all that sauntering you did! Nice going! Jacqueline 180/160/140 It’s sad that a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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So, tonight, I sauntered into WW and stomped resolutely up to the torture instrument, known as the scale.  I hopped on, and closed my eyes….and when I opened them, it was 4 lbs. lower than it was the last time. I gotta hurry and catch up – Alice is gonna leave me behind and I don’t WANNA be all by my lonesome. Thanks for all the support, asd Bunny 320 / 298 / God only knows Practice Makes Progress (I hope….)

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Question:

    Add to his illustrious road racing career:         – IMH winner     – RAAM winner     – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike)

Yes, but I was only mentioning his accomplishments before turning to triathlon. The other items you mention came later. But I stand by my statement that his story may not be that unusual among the early Ironmen. He was The Cyclist. But there was also The Swimmer and The Runner. I just don’t know as much about them. All of them were accomplished athletes before attempting the Ironman. Many getting into triathlon today are coming out of a sedentary lifestyle. They run, swim, or ride bikes to lose weight and get fit, and get bitten by the bug. These people *can* do an Ironman out of the box. But their objective is different than Howie’s. Howie wanted to win, and added several years of full-time training to his prodigious talent to do so. A newbie has not the talent, and will therefore not be trying to win. But they’ll still have to devote extensive training to finish. I tend to agree with Joe that it is probably too much for mortals. I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. I have several races I have to do first to build the confidence I need to keep me motivated through that much training. That program includes a mile-long open-water swim in a race, done comfortably, a marathon, and a half-Ironman. As they say in amateur astronomy, if you want to grind and polish a 12-inch telescope mirror, make a 6-inch mirror first, then a 12-incher. What you learn with the smaller mirror saves more time in the second mirror than it takes to make the smaller mirror in the first place. Many start with the 12-inch mirror, and lose heart when the progress seems too slow and the objective too distant, or end up with a mirror that they are not proud of. Rick "not John Howard" Denney

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    – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike)

Is this for real?  The guy must be a nut.  Imagine if he hit a minor imperfection in the road at that speed.  Good night.  Game over.  Does this really count as a "human powered" record?  I think I might be able to break the 10K world record if you put me on a track that had one lane which was a moving sidewalk.  Then again, 26 minutes is pretty fast, so that sidewalk would really need to be moving.

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    – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike) Is this for real?  The guy must be a nut.  Imagine if he hit a minor imperfection in the road at that speed.  Good night.  Game over.  Does this really count as a "human powered" record?  I think I might be able to break the 10K world record if you put me on a track that had one lane which was a moving sidewalk.  Then again, 26 minutes is pretty fast, so that sidewalk would really need to be moving.

Yes, it’s for real. Howard no longer holds the record, by the way, so there’s at least one other nut, and that other guy (whose name escapes me at the moment) did crash on one occasion, as I recall. Howie’s bike was built more like a motorcycle than a bike, and he had to be towed to a fairly high speed before he could turn the pedals on the gear he was using. He did his record run at the same place all land-speed records are done: Bonneville. The Salt Flats are the smoothest surface on the planet. No, it’s not really human powered. That’s a different record. Rick "I hit the brakes at 45" Denney

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No guts, no glory. OTH, after he won the RAAM he declared that it was not worth the torture and physical damage.  And to my knowledge, he never rode it again Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     – Human powered land speed world record holder.       (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike) Is this for real?  The guy must be a nut.  Imagine if he hit a minor imperfection in the road at that speed.

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In article Many getting into triathlon today are coming out of a sedentary lifestyle. They run, swim, or ride bikes to lose weight and get fit, and get bitten by the bug. These people *can* do an Ironman out of the box. But their objective is different than Howie’s. Howie wanted to win, and added several years of full-time training to his prodigious talent to do so. A newbie has not the talent, and will therefore not be trying to win.

Just a minor point of semantics:  I think you misuse the word "talent" in the last sentence above, Rick.  A newbie may very well have the "talent" (Peter Reid was once a newbie), but he or she does not have the training, preparation, and experience required for an expectation of winning an IM. "Talent" is innate ability, as opposed to the other factors that I’ve mentioned, which can be developed over time.  With talent, either ya got it or ya ain’t! But they’ll still have to devote extensive training to finish. I tend to agree with Joe that it is probably too much for mortals.

Too much for average mortals to take on as *their first tri*.  But completing an IM after an appropriate buildup is very doable for your average determined mortal. I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training.

Rick, you can.  Honest. As they say in amateur astronomy, if you want to grind and polish a 12-inch telescope mirror, make a 6-inch mirror first, then a 12-incher. What you learn with the smaller mirror saves more time in the second mirror than it takes to make the smaller mirror in the first place. Many start with the 12-inch mirror, and lose heart when the progress seems too slow and the objective too distant, or end up with a mirror that they are not proud of.

Beautiful analogy.  Perfect. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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 A newbie has not the talent, and will therefore not be trying to win. Just a minor point of semantics:  I think you misuse the word "talent" in the last sentence above, Rick.  A newbie may very well have the "talent" (Peter Reid was once a newbie), but he or she does not have the training, preparation, and experience required for an expectation of winning an IM. "Talent" is innate ability, as opposed to the other factors that I’ve mentioned, which can be developed over time.  With talent, either ya got it or ya ain’t!

I was talking about a newbie who had lived a sedentary life and undertaken endurance sports as an extension of weight-loss exercise. I suppose that group can include those with real talent. My observation, though, tells me that most people with that kind of talent are compelled to stay a bit more fit in the first place. Maybe I’m wrong–but that’s what I was getting at. But they’ll still have to devote extensive training to finish. I tend to agree with Joe that it is probably too much for mortals. Too much for average mortals to take on as *their first tri*.  But completing an IM after an appropriate buildup is very doable for your average determined mortal.

As I read the subject, it says "IM as first tri". Did I miss something? I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. Rick, you can.  Honest.

Rick "I’ll take your word for it" Denney

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I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. Rick, you can.  Honest. Rick "I’ll take your word for it" Denney

Ah! Yee have the faith, now all you need is an application and you will be a *believahhh* Pass the viper, Rev’ – 17 months, 6 Days, 21 Hours until  IMC/2000! Train Safe, Race: Qualify! Joe "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can’t, you’re right." – Henry Ford

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I am only marginally prepared to believe that I can do an Ironman with any amount of training. Rick, you can.  Honest. Rick "I’ll take your word for it" Denney Ah! Yee have the faith, now all you need is an application and you will be a *believahhh*

I’ll be a believer when 1. I step out of Lake Audubon on September 12th relaxed and looking forward to riding the bike. Stepping out of a boat does not count. 2. I complete the Marine Corps Marathon. I don’t require comfort or any particular time. I do require successful consumption of food, and no significant walking (which I define as being compelled to walk rather than choosing to walk). 3. I get the sense that work and life will allow the training schedule. This is not one of the lighter matters. I spend 25 weeks a year on the road right now, and it looks like I may be expanding that a bit until about the middle of 2000. After that, I think it will slack off considerably (my teaching gig will be concluded). Pass the viper, Rev’ – 17 months, 6 Days, 21 Hours until  IMC/2000!

Faith is belief in things not seen. By that definition, I’m currently one of those ye of little faith types. Rick "Time will tell whether the bug is strong enough" Denney

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: One of whose history I have personal knowledge is John Howard. He won, : I believe, the third or fourth Hawaiian Ironman (1980 or 81), : He trained vigorously for the Ironman event, and made it is sole focus : for the years that he did it. : I’m sure his story is not unusual. – Howard’s "story" taken only in the context of triathlon might not

     seem unusual, but viewing the bigger picture in my opinion, places      him in a class by himself.      Add to his illustrious road racing career:          - IMH winner      - RAAM winner      - Human powered land speed world record holder.        (Something like ~165 mph drafing a modified stock car on bike)     The guy is quite simply a phenom and a pioneer.  Under-recognized for     all the things he has accomplished.    Home Page: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~twm/TTH.html

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In the good old days of Triathlon a lot of people did Im as their first , my first Hawaii in 83 there was probably 50 odd who had never done a tri before. I doubt that it happens too much now though. I agree with tricia when she says the hardest part is the training , if you’ve done the training the race is a picnic. Sounds silly but is true. Ross – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mmmm, I doubt it.  I suspect the biggest challenge in doing IM for your first tri is ramping up the miles in training and sticking to it for the months leading up to the race.  The race itself is the icing on the cake. Honest. — Tri-Baby Icing on the cake?  Some of us mortals have trouble digesting an 800 pound cake  ;) Steve

Believe it or not, Steve, I say that in all seriousness.  The hardest part of Ironman is the training.  It lasts a *lot* longer than the maximum 17 hours that the race itself could potentially take. I mean it—if you have the guts and determination to slog through 6 to 12 months of preparation for this distance, you are practically guaranteed a finish, barring unfortunate accidents or unforeseen physical/weather complications. If TriBaby can do it, ANYBODY with the will to prepare can complete an Ironman.  That’s what’s so tantalizing about the distance—it seems so daunting, yet in reality is quite doable for anyone with the determination and persistence to go for it.   Remember that, because it is true.  Let it give you confidence as you churn out the miles on the bike, on the run, and in the pool.  TriBobo did it—so can you! — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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Personally, I would hate to dedicate the time, effort and sacrifice to attack something I may hate. I think it best to try a shorter distance before making the investment. Joe Foster "The idea is to create your own future, and not have it shaped by circumstance." – Peter Thomas

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start. Mmmm, I doubt it.  I suspect the biggest challenge in doing IM for your first tri is ramping up the miles in training and sticking to it for the months leading up to the race.  The race itself is the icing on the cake. Honest. — Tri-Baby

Icing on the cake?  Some of us mortals have trouble digesting an 800 pound cake  ;) Steve

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

Mmmm, I doubt it.  I suspect the biggest challenge in doing IM for your first tri is ramping up the miles in training and sticking to it for the months leading up to the race.  The race itself is the icing on the cake. Honest. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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Richard, I had the same thought. — "Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not.  When you race him, he will win." -Tom Fleming

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| Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their | first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and | how did your race turn out? Forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, but weren’t the first triathlons ironmans

Actually, no.  The first triathlons were put on by bored lifeguards in southern California, or so say the legends.  They were not Ironman length, and I don’t believe they technically followed today’s standard swim-bike-run format, but they were triathlons. (ironmen?)? If so the forefathers of the sport did an IM as their first triathlon.

I think you’re right about at least those folks who did the first IMs. — Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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I think you’re right about at least those folks who did the first IMs.

Four years ago I bought a bike from a guy who, at the age of 37, saw the Hawaiian Ironman on TV and resolved to do it. He trained for two years with no advice or guidance, not knowing any shorter races existed.  His goal was simply to finish, and he did.  Then he put the bike up for sale and quit.  I paid less than $50 for the bike.  I should have bought the hard trasnport case as well, but at the time didn’t realize what a good deal it was at $100 obo.

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| Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their | first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and | how did your race turn out? Forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, but weren’t the first triathlons ironmans (ironmen?)? If so the forefathers of the sport did an IM as their first triathlon. So I guess you could ask Dave Scott (for instance) about his background and training.                                    rich

A lot of them were. But they were not newbies to endurance sports. One of whose history I have personal knowledge is John Howard. He won, I believe, the third or fourth Hawaiian Ironman (1980 or 81), and placed highly in all the early races in which he participated. He was coming off a very successful cycling career, where he was a gold-medalist in the Pan American Games in 1972, and a national road-race champion something like five times in the mid and early 70s. Going hard for 10 or 12 hours at a whack was nothing new to him. Also, he was an excellent time-trialist, and was used to solo strategy and pacing. And he could push the most god-awful gears. He trained vigorously for the Ironman event, and made it is sole focus for the years that he did it. I’m sure his story is not unusual. The early Ironman races, as I recall, mostly consisted of superior athletes in the various sports, who challenged each other to a combined event. I don’t suspect there were that many mortals in that company, and mortals might do well to follow a more conservative strategy than the pioneers. Also, if you look at the times posted by the pioneers, you will see that the top folks in the sport have learned a thing or two since those days. Rick "Sub-Mortal" Denney

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| Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their | first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and | how did your race turn out? Forgive my ignorance if I’m wrong, but weren’t the first triathlons ironmans (ironmen?)? If so the forefathers of the sport did an IM as their first triathlon. So I guess you could ask Dave Scott (for instance) about his background and training.                                         rich

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out?

Steve Bean, where are you to answer this. Steve did GFT as his first triathlon ever and his story is amazing. Mike Plumb

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Are you sure the swim would be the first challenge? I’d say the first challenge would be to quietly sit and think about what an Ironman really entails, then comes all the training. I find that sometimes getting out from under the duvet for another early swim, a 150km bike on a Sunday or after long day at work running intervals on your own on a dirt road in he rain is also a little "challenging" Phil Squire

Yeah, I was talking about the first *race day* challenge. The race is the easy part, compared to the training. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

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Train for sprint, an international and then a half and then you will really appreciate what it is all about. Wendy "my worst fear is that I might decide to do an IM" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you sure the swim would be the first challenge? I’d say the first challenge would be to quietly sit and think about what an Ironman really entails, then comes all the training. I find that sometimes getting out from under the duvet for another early swim, a 150km bike on a Sunday or after long day at work running intervals on your own on a dirt road in he rain is also a little "challenging" Phil Squire IM http://w1.116.telia.com/~u11602093/home.html e t… Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start. No, that would only be your FIRST challenge.  There would be many more to follow. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start.

No, that would only be your FIRST challenge.  There would be many more to follow. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Are you sure the swim would be the first challenge? I’d say the first challenge would be to quietly sit and think about what an Ironman really entails, then comes all the training. I find that sometimes getting out from under the duvet for another early swim, a 150km bike on a Sunday or after long day at work running intervals on your own on a dirt road in he rain is also a little "challenging" Phil Squire IM http://w1.116.telia.com/~u11602093/home.html

t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there been brave (foolish) enough to do an IM as their first Triathlon?  If so, what was your training background and how did your race turn out? I suspect the biggest challenge would be mentally dealing with the slap-fest that takes place during the swim start. No, that would only be your FIRST challenge.  There would be many more to follow. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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Question:

Tentatively: March – Powerman – AL May – Gulf Coast – FL May – Saturn Classic – OH July thru Sept – Clif Bar Ohio State Championships Aug – IMC Oct – sitting at the computer watching IMH coverage

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Hey Everyone, Before I start, I have a question: My goals are at the link, the stuff in green is a must do and I intend to do both Sarnia and Leamington Tri’s but don’t have a definite date yet. That’s not as in Sarnia, Ontario, is it?

Yes it is, Sarnia, ON.

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RSTers, Here’s what my 1999 race calendar looks like (runs and tris).  ATC stands for Atlanta Track Club, a series of low-key Grand Prix events with no hoopla or shirts, just fast runners!  This information is posted on my website (along with my performances, PR’s, and training information) in case you’d like to sneak a peek:  http://joedom.home.mindspring.com/im98.htm Jan – ATC 10-miler Feb – ATC 1-hr run / ATC 5K / ATC 10K Mar – Charles Harris 10K Apr – Charlotte Observer Marathon May – Gulf Coast Triathlon Jun – Chattanooga DAM Triathlon Jul – Peachtree Road Race / USTS Lake Lanier Triathlon Aug – Ironman USA! Sep – Tugaloo Triathlon Nov – Atlanta Marathon or IM-Florida Live clean and train hard, JoeDom Joe’s Running Links http://joedom.home.mindspring.com

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As I sift through all the race information for 1999, I think about new challenges (1/2 Ironman?) and my favorite races. Of course, I also must consider the practicality of training time, race dates, and family plans, in putting together my 1999 triathlon race schedule. I’m curious to hear what races/runs/swims you plan for the 1999 season. thanks for sharing…. Mike Tri-PT

This is my dream season barring no accidents or injuries.  The events leading up to my Half Ironman are strictly training.  They will be part of my base regimen. Feb. 14 Austin Motorola Marathon Austin, Tx. Mar. 20 Victoria, Tx Cookie Chase 50 mile Roadbike Race Mar. 21 Hempstead, Tx. 64 mile Roadrace Mar. 27 Texas Straight Shot 5K & 10K College Station, Tx April 18-19 MS150 Bike ride Houston to Austin Texas *May 8 Gulf Coast Triathlon Half IRONMAN Panama City Beach, Fl May 23 COMBAT Sprint Triathlon Texas City, Tx Late May – Early July Prepare for 2nd half (easy maintenance training) July ?    Jeff & Brede’s Intergalactic Sprint Triathlon August ? American Telco Cinco Ranch Triathlon Katy, Tx Sept. 12 USTS Bally Series Dallas,Texas  Sprint Distance Oct. 10 Try Andy’s Tri SugarlandTx. Nov. 6 Ten Miles for Texas Woodlands,Tx Nov. 25 Uptown Turkey Trot 5K Houston, Tx.

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Hmmm…schedule is by far not done yet, but here are the definites… IMNZ – March 6 Great Chesapeake Bay Swim – June 13 (?) IMC – August 29 Penn-Jersey Tri Series (4 tris) Probables: Blackwater Eagleman Survival of the Shawangunks (I wanted to do this one in a long time) Maybe, if certain conditions are met: St. Croix (another one I want to do for the longest time) There’s a list of 20 other races that I have to sift through to see whether I want to do them or not. I think the final decision and schedule will be made *after* IMNZ.                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMNZ, IMC ‘99 IMC’97: 10:42:53          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

Plans so far: January 31 – Pacific Shores Marathon February – submit IMH lottery app March 13 – Solvang Century May 1 – Wildflower long course & USAT Officials clinic July 31 – Vineman September – Carpenteria Triathlon – Olympic I add a couple to fill the gaps depending upon time and money. I’ll probably work a few local California races after I finish the Officials clinic. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Thought I would show everyone my schedule from the other side of the world. 24 January:  "Tri a Quickie" Sprint (500m/8mi/5k), Guam, USA 28 February:    Guam Tri-Fed Century Bike Ride, Guam, USA 14 March:               "Stick & Back" Sprint Tri, Guam, USA 28 March:               28th Seiko Guam Marathon, Guam, USA 10 April:               Rota Blue Triathlon (1.5k/40k/10k), Rota, CNMI 2 May:                  IRONMAN AUSTRALIA!! 16 May:                 Tagaman tri (2k/60k/15k), Saipan, CNMI (tentative) 5 June:         South Pacific Games Triathlon (1.5k/40k/10k), Guam, USA 20 June:        Dr. Pain’s Painless Duathlon (2.4miS/50miB), Guam, USA July:           ITU Long Distance Worlds? (very tentative) September:      ITU Worlds, Munich, Germany (tentative) October:        Ironman Hawaii (if I qualify at OZ)! October:        Laguna Phuket Triathlon, Thailand (if I don’t qualify for                               Hawaii) November:       Guam International Triathlon (2.4mi/60k/15k), Guam, USA It is hard to take a break when you live in the land of perpetual summer! Grant

Response:

Thought I would show everyone my schedule from the other side of the

world. And over here… May – Scottish Islands Peaks Race July – Ironbridge half-IM Sept – ArranMan half-IM Oct – Dublin Marathon plus whatever odds and sods I can fit in… Returning to RST, after a difficult few months… now in the English Lake District, Richard Lane anyone from tri-lakeland ’round here?

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my 1999 schedule, so far… 2/28/99  Emory Indoor Tri (GA)   — short, but sounds like fun 3/28/99  Whistlestop Du (AL)     — playin’ with the big kids at Powerman 4/25/99  Digital City Du (GA)    – 99 date not yet announced, great kids stuff 5/31/99  Hepzibah Tri (GA)       — sprint with a great cause 6/5/99   Mach Tenn Tri (TN)      – another fun sprint 7/18/99  USTS Atlanta (GA)       — did I mention the word "hills"? 8/14/99  Mountain Lakes Tri (AL) — tie-dyed shirts  fun sprint 9/26/99  Tugaloo Tri (GA)        – this was my first Oly Dist in 1997 10/3/99  Duke Liver Ctr Tri (NC) — my first 1/2 IM distance looking forward to 2000 for my first Ironman — 13 years after my first tri. David / FEY2K (remove spaces) at att dot net

Response:

Well, here are mine in the So. Cal. Area: April 11 L.A. Tri Series #1 http://trievents.com April 25 L.A. Tri Series #2 May 1 Wildflower 1/2 May 23 L.A. Tri Series #3(USTS) June 12 USTS Oceanside June 20 Xterra L.A.  http://trievents.com July 31 Vineman 1/2 August 29 IMC September 19 Lite Adventure Competition October 31 Xterra Maui Also a few other sprints and a bunch of 10k’s. Mark Rinaldi Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

Response:

Plan A – win a lottery spot for IMH One of the 1/2 Iron qualifiers to validate my spot as early as possible (in case I need a second attempt) IMH in October Plan B No IMH spot Muncie, IN 1/2 iron July 10 Mohican Pineman (new Iron distance in Ohio) September 25 Either way: As many of the local events as I can fit around them: Terre Haute May 15 Shelbyville, IN series in June, July, August Eagle Creek races in June, July, Sept. Bob Leckron

Response:

Lauren and my 1999 schedules can be found on her webpage at http://www.execpc.com/~shark Unfortunately, our ISP provider seems to have a problems accessing these pages right now, so it may take a few tries at a later date to find them. If you notice, I seemed to have bitten the bullet and put the Lake Geneva Extreme Tri on my schedule.  Depending on how the long course dus and tris go and how busy work gets, this may or may not happen.  Anyway, it looks like another packed season of racing – I’d better quit goofing off and start training! Todd Jensen

Response:

As I sift through all the race information for 1999, I think about new challenges (1/2 Ironman?) and my favorite races. Of course, I also must consider the practicality of training time, race dates, and family plans, in putting together my 1999 triathlon race schedule. I’m curious to hear what races/runs/swims you plan for the 1999 season. thanks for sharing…. Mike Tri-PT

Response:

I’ve been waiting for a post on this subject … seems like most of my favorite races are not getting around to updating their web pages …. Here’s what I personally got going for ‘99 (I’ve got some running and cycling favorites and first tri’s in here also) … Here

Question:

‘Into the Wild’ is a great read. Also, a book I read a year ago – I believe its called ‘Swimming the Channel’, about a women who was training to swim the English Channel and had a personal tragedy just prior to her attempt.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi.  In another thread Ray Plotecia mentioned reading J. Krakauer’s "Into Thin Air".  I am currently about half way through this book and am finding it fantastically inspiring. What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list. What kind of reading inspires you? — | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

Lance, You may want to try "Touching the Void" , Joe Simpson, This book is almost unbelievable (it’s a true story)  It’s another mountaineering based story.  Incredible. Jeff

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I’ve only read these books, Ironwill by Mike Plant (Hard To Find But THE BEST BOOK I HAVE EVER READ) Surviving the Toughest Race on Earth by Dugard ALSO GREAT Pre by Tom Jordan MOTIVATING LeMond OKAY-GOOD Read Once a Runner by John Parker- HARD TO UNDERSTAND AT FIRST But once reread it all comes together GREAT BOOK The yellow Jersey MEDIOCRE Charles (I read quite a bit) Garabedian

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While you’re on the subject of Everest, go see the David Breashears movie "Everest" at the IMAX Theater. It’s incredible! Make sure to go on a settled stomach… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only read these books, Ironwill by Mike Plant (Hard To Find But THE BEST BOOK I HAVE EVER READ) Surviving the Toughest Race on Earth by Dugard ALSO GREAT Pre by Tom Jordan MOTIVATING LeMond OKAY-GOOD Read Once a Runner by John Parker- HARD TO UNDERSTAND AT FIRST But once reread it all comes together GREAT BOOK The yellow Jersey MEDIOCRE Charles (I read quite a bit) Garabedian

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Response:

Try "The Amateurs" by Halberstam—it is the story about rowers in the US in late 70s and early 80s.  

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     On the subject of motivation, although not books, and quite hokey at times, the ROCKY movies are great for inspiration. Each of them, save for perhaps ROCKY V    …ok, even V, contain scenes that always get to me. The soundtracks as well are great. Brian Meyer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi.  In another thread Ray Plotecia mentioned reading J. Krakauer’s "Into Thin Air".  I am currently about half way through this book and am finding it fantastically inspiring. What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list. What kind of reading inspires you? — | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

Response:

- Was there ever a book or movie about the guy named Kropp (I think) who rode his bike all the way to Kathmandu, summitted Everest in a solo ascent, then rode back home? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruth Kazez wrote A third Krakauer book worth looking into is Eiger Dreams. Dove by Robin Lee Graham (sailing) Beyond the Limits by Stacy Allison (climbing by women) Wind, Sand and Stars by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (flying) Tracks by Robyn Davidson (desert walk with camels) Annapurna, A Woman’s Place by Arlene Blum (climbing) ? An account of climbing Everest by Tenzing Norgay (very good) Miles From Nowhere by Barbara Savage (bike around the world) The Lonely Sea and Sky by Sir Francis Chichester (excellent!) and the very best one of all…Annapurna by Maurice Herzog (superb) Also, although I’ve forgotten the titles, accounts of travelling up the Amazon, biographies and personal accounts of Scott, Admundsen, Perry, and others to both arctic circles, and Lewis, Clark, and many other who explored North America. Ruth (and others), There are some great books in this thread.  Please add "My Old Man and The Sea" by Hays and Hays, published in 1995. It is a story about sailing 17,000 miles in a 25-foot boat from the U.S. east coast, going through the Panama Canal, aroundCape Horn, and back up to Connecticut. If you liked The Dove, you should find this one a good read.  Lots of humor between father and son.  William F. Buckley says "…It will make you cry and smile and exult." Bob Williams 55-59 Severna Park, MD

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Response:

Sailing Alone Around The World – Joshua Slocum (first person to do it, 100+ yrs ago) Any book by Sir Ranolph Fiennes (hope I spelt correctly, I liked his autobiography and the book about Antarctica the best) Greg Childs’ mountaineering books are a good read The Boardman Tasker Omnibus (also about mountaineering) gordon byrn

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ruth Kazez wrote A third Krakauer book worth looking into is Eiger Dreams. Dove by Robin Lee Graham (sailing) Beyond the Limits by Stacy Allison (climbing by women) Wind, Sand and Stars by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (flying) Tracks by Robyn Davidson (desert walk with camels) Annapurna, A Woman’s Place by Arlene Blum (climbing) ? An account of climbing Everest by Tenzing Norgay (very good) Miles From Nowhere by Barbara Savage (bike around the world) The Lonely Sea and Sky by Sir Francis Chichester (excellent!) and the very best one of all…Annapurna by Maurice Herzog (superb) Also, although I’ve forgotten the titles, accounts of travelling up the Amazon, biographies and personal accounts of Scott, Admundsen, Perry, and others to both arctic circles, and Lewis, Clark, and many other who explored North America.

Ruth (and others), There are some great books in this thread.  Please add "My Old Man and The Sea" by Hays and Hays, published in 1995. It is a story about sailing 17,000 miles in a 25-foot boat from the U.S. east coast, going through the Panama Canal, aroundCape Horn, and back up to Connecticut. If you liked The Dove, you should find this one a good read.  Lots of humor between father and son.  William F. Buckley says "…It will make you cry and smile and exult." Bob Williams 55-59 Severna Park, MD

Response:

Hi.  In another thread Ray Plotecia mentioned reading J. Krakauer’s "Into Thin Air".  I am currently about half way through this book and am finding it fantastically inspiring. What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list. What kind of reading inspires you? — | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

Response:

What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list.

A third Krakauer book worth looking into is Eiger Dreams. Dove by Robin Lee Graham (sailing) Beyond the Limits by Stacy Allison (climbing by women) Wind, Sand and Stars by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (flying) Tracks by Robyn Davidson (desert walk with camels) Annapurna, A Woman’s Place by Arlene Blum (climbing) ? An account of climbing Everest by Tenzing Norgay (very good) Miles From Nowhere by Barbara Savage (bike around the world) The Lonely Sea and Sky by Sir Francis Chichester (excellent!) and the very best one of all…Annapurna by Maurice Herzog (superb) Also, although I’ve forgotten the titles, accounts of travelling up the Amazon, biographies and personal accounts of Scott, Admundsen, Perry, and others to both arctic circles, and Lewis, Clark, and many other who explored North America. Good thread! I like that sort of reading and would enjoy suggestions. Ruth Kazez

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Once a Runner, Parker JL Surviving the Toughest Race on Earth, Dugard M

Response:

Lance Ball says… What kind of reading inspires you?

Of course we’re all still waiting for Tribaby’s IMH report. Anything that takes as long as this to produce must be good. AJ — If swimming is so good for the figure, explain whales Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club – Australia http://members.xoom.com/ajsimon/index.htm   <—- New web site      

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: Hi.  In another thread Ray Plotecia mentioned reading J. Krakauer’s "Into : Thin Air".  I am currently about half way through this book and am finding : it fantastically inspiring. : What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ : instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary : Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book : on my list. : What kind of reading inspires you? You might enjoy "The Perfect Storm" by Sebastian Junger – not sports per se but not unlike Into Thin Air as far as the feel, it’s now in paperback. I haven’t read it but "Iron Will" by Mike Plant would probably be a good choice.  Also, "A Rough Ride" by Paul Kimmage, about the seamy underside of the Tour, is apparently in re-issue.  Tinley has a new photo and essays book out.   "Miles From Nowhere" by Barbara Savage is a must read for adventuresome cyclists of all kinds.  Maybe "Off the Map – bicycling across Siberia" by Mark Jenkins too.   How about "Sailing Alone around the World" by Joshua Slocum, vintage 1900.  A classic for sure. "Young Men & Fire" by Norman MacLean, about smokejumpers in an epic fire in Montana.   "Undaunted Courage" – Stephen Ambrose (about Lewis & Clark) And, back to sports related, if you like mystery/thriller/hard-boiled with a liberal dose of humor, check out Harlan Coben’s sports related (but not "about sports") Myron Bolitar series…there are 5 of them.   Not like Krakauer but if you like stuff like Hiaasen (Doubly Whammy is a good…uh…fishing tale) or Elmore Leonard or Robert Crais but with a sports twist they are good fun. Wade Blomgren

Response:

Ooops. So much for my favorite book. I suggested the Oregon Trial, but gave the wrong author! The right name is Parkman, not Parker. Brian Sullivan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi.  In another thread Ray Plotecia mentioned reading J. Krakauer’s "Into Thin Air".  I am currently about half way through this book and am finding it fantastically inspiring. What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list. What kind of reading inspires you? — | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

I just thought of another one that I really enjoyed: Minus 148 Degrees : The First Winter Ascent of Mount McKinley ~  Art Davidson This is a great true story. Jeff

Response:

The ultimate endurance event was crossing the continent before there was RAAM:         The Oregon Trail by Robert Parker Jr. (1846) Only one of the best books I have ever read.          The Journals of Lewis & Clark (1806) for the really nutty also make good reading.         And for those in search of the truly obscure, try The Prairie Traveler by Randolph Marcy. (1859) Very cool handbook for those trying to make it to California. Tidbits of information on the first energy bars, and all sorts of goodies about gear, which should appeal to all triathletes. No info on peeing off a horse, however. Brian Sullivan

Response:

– Was there ever a book or movie about the guy named Kropp (I think) who rode his bike all the way to Kathmandu, summitted Everest in a solo ascent, then rode back home?

Bernie, I don’t know if there was a book or not.  But Kropp did not actually summit Everest.  He came within 350 feet and turned around.  Given the risks involved (as I am now reading in "Into THin Air"), that may have been a very wise decision on his part.  Can you imagine, though, going that far only to turn around within spitting distance of your goal?  It must have taken just as much will power and strength of character to turn around as it did to get that far. To relate this to triathlon: I am reminded of a quote from Robert M. Pirsig’s "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".     To live only for some future goal is shallow.  It’s the sides of     the mountain which sustain life, not the top.  Here is where things     grow. This is how I like to think of my training.  Sure I have a goal.  I want to complete my first 1/2 IM this season, among other things.  But I try to think of my runs as runs — not as a means to an end.  I want my motivating factor (though it isn’t always so easy) to be my growth and enjoyment of the activity, not the final result.  We spend so much time training and relatively little racing.  Might as well make the most of it.   Perhaps that’s what Kropp realized as he turned around. — | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

Response:

What kind of reading inspires you?

Many excellent recommendations so far. He are a few I’d add–mostly natural history, extreme conditions rather than strictly sport: Artic Dreams, Barry Lopez Men’s Lives, Peter Matthiessen Far Tortuga, Peter Matthiessen Ghost Grizzlies, David Petersen Songlines, Bruce Chatwin In Patagonia, Bruce Chatwin Chasing the Horizon: The Life and Times of a Modern Sea Gypsy, Fatty Goodlander (so you think you’ve led a loose, outside-the-mold life?) David

Response:

"Running High" by Hugh Symmonds – a top British fell runner, he ran over all the 3000+ feet mountains in Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland in one continuous traverse in less than 100 days. Something like 2000 miles of running. The whole journey was done on foot, and even the water crossings were done by rowing or by sail, no engines allowed! It’s actually really well written, and quite gripping. An easy day was 18miles, a hard day perhaps 35miles with several thousand feet of ascent. I can recommend the Joe Simpson books, the amazing thing is that anybody will still climb with him. Joel — Joel Sylvester Longest Day ‘98 12:10:33 Me: www.roe.ac.uk/jswww/ Edinburgh Triathletes: www.edintri.u-net.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi.  In another thread Ray Plotecia mentioned reading J. Krakauer’s "Into Thin Air".  I am currently about half way through this book and am finding it fantastically inspiring. What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list. What kind of reading inspires you? — | Lance Ball | Anima Sana in Corpore Sano

Response:

Endurance-there are a couple of books about the (failed) Shackleton journey to the South Pole. It is an unbelievable story about persistence and fortitude. It is also a great example of what champions do best-"fail"-but never give up. It really is the journey and not the destination that makes us what we are. Matt

Response:

I see others have posted "Once a Runner," which is phenomenal, especially reading the part where the narrator does some astounding number of quarter-mile repeats (if I recall correctly) — a very articulate description of the focus and obsession of training.   Also, another one pertaining to climbing — are climbers just more prolific writers than runners or cyclists? — is "Solo Faces" by James Salter.  Again, amazing depiction of mental focus and obsession — even if you know nothing about climbing (I sure don’t) you will immediately recognize much of what’s going on mentally. Mike "should be writing the first great triathlon novel instead of wasting my time in political consulting" Kelly                                        o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           / "You’ve got to get obsessed and stay obsessed."                                     Coach Bob

Response:

PRE – Tom Jordan (the story of Steve Prefontaine) INTO THIN AIR – Jon Krakauer ONCE A RUNNER – John L. Parker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are some other sports-related books — fiction or not, but _not_ instructional — that you can recommend?  I’ve read the "Runner’s Literary Companion" and already have "Into the Wild" (?), another J. Krakauer book on my list. A third Krakauer book worth looking into is Eiger Dreams. Dove by Robin Lee Graham (sailing) Beyond the Limits by Stacy Allison (climbing by women) Wind, Sand and Stars by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (flying) Tracks by Robyn Davidson (desert walk with camels) Annapurna, A Woman’s Place by Arlene Blum (climbing) ? An account of climbing Everest by Tenzing Norgay (very good) Miles From Nowhere by Barbara Savage (bike around the world) The Lonely Sea and Sky by Sir Francis Chichester (excellent!) and the very best one of all…Annapurna by Maurice Herzog (superb) Also, although I’ve forgotten the titles, accounts of travelling up the Amazon, biographies and personal accounts of Scott, Admundsen, Perry, and others to both arctic circles, and Lewis, Clark, and many other who explored North America. Good thread! I like that sort of reading and would enjoy suggestions. Ruth Kazez

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Response:

Since you mention Into Thin Air, a climbing book, another reliable climbing author is Joe Simpson. His claim to fame is having almost bit the dust, in spectacular fashion, many times. His most famous book, a really good one, is called Touching the Void. Another which is supposed to be good is This Game of Ghosts. Other safe-bet climbing authors are Chris Bon(n?)ington and Greg Child. Incidentally, Into Thin Air has sparked a fairly major controversy: a fellow named Anatoli Boukreev (who is rather unflatteringly portrayed in Into Thin Air) found the book extremely slanted and has written a rebuttal, called The Climb. It’s supposed to be not nearly as well written. Boukreev has since died, climbing.                                         rich

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Question:

Does anyone know if this race is happening this year?  I did it last year and, although the water was frigid and the bike and run courses were more like mountain climbing, the setting was beautiful and, on balance, the race was a great time.

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Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Does anyone know if this race is happening this year?  I did it last year and, although the water was frigid and the bike and run courses were more like mountain climbing, the setting was beautiful and, on balance, the race was a great time.

Response:

    Am planning on doing this sprint distance tri on Nov.7. I’m not competitive so hoping to rent a bike there. Has anyone done this one or have any info.  Thanks

Response:

There are plenty of places that rent bikes, but you may want to call ahead to pre-arrange; I doubt they’d be open early enough on race morning. You may end up with a one-gear, coaster brake bike, if that’s okay for you.

Response:

    Am planning on doing this sprint distance tri on Nov.7. I’m not competitive so hoping to rent a bike there. Has anyone done this one or have any info.  Thanks

i used to go to this race every year, it was my favorite.  i don’t go any longer, as the catalina island folks, i.e., the city of avalon the chamber of commerce, essentially took the race from the founder & race director, bill fulton (who also produces the LA triathlon series bonelli park races, and others). i was deeply offended by this.  there is alot more i could say, as i have been involved since 1992 in various processes that would help mediate a solution. as producer of the Bally TF USTS series races i have the opportunity to deal with communities around the US, and IMHO catalina is stridently the most egregious in their wanton disregard for those who come from outside their community with a plan– eagerly accepted by catalina– only to somehow end up with ownership of the property once it has become successful. the triathlon is the second time it has happened, it occurred to hans albrecht and the catalina marathon as well. therefore, i wouldn’t sponsor, enter, watch, or be involved in this race if it was the last race on earth.  i likewise have a low regard for the various parties who’ve produced this event on a contract basis for catalina, and i wish such parties would have more spine and honor. qrman

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Question:

Stephen Pribut writes:

| There is some material on my page on ITB syndrome. There are a few | other pages with ITB info – a search at alta vista or lycos might | help. | | http://www.clark.net/pub/pribut/spsport.html Steve, I found you web page some time back and often point folks in this direction when they experience  running "injuries". I just wanted to say thanks for the quality work.  And for those that have not visited this page, it’s one that you print and keep by your side for constant ref.  In additon, there is no advertisements at the end so his motivation is not $$$$.   P.S. How would you like to add compartment syndrome.  It’s often noted with shin splints.       Thanks again. — Doug Freese  All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

Response:

: Seeking any information or experiences with iliotibial band injuries. : Please respond with any advice or recommendations for treatment and : recovery, what worked or did not work.  I was diagnosed six weeks ago and : have been attending physical therapy four times per week since.  I have : seen no improvement.  I am a triathlete specializing in Ironman distance : races.  I am frustrated with my injury and I am seeking advice from any : fellow runners/triathletes with similar experiences to get me back on the : road.  Please help. Dr. Pribut’s page (mentioned in an earlier reply) is excellent. On the back issues (http://www.teleport.com/~pmotion/issues.html) portion of my Web site I’ve got an ITBS article with a link to an ITBS page (yes, there is a Web page for just about anything!) set up recently. For me personally, ditching shoes with too much heel lift and working on my abs were two keys to beating ITBS the second time around withing six weeks rather than six months. There was a ton of other stuff the bone-cruncher recommended that probably helped also.   /      http://www.teleport.com/~pmotion …. Running, HRMs and More

Response:

Seeking any information or experiences with iliotibial band injuries. Please respond with any advice or recommendations for treatment and recovery, what worked or did not work.  I was diagnosed six weeks ago and have been attending physical therapy four times per week since.  I have seen no improvement.  I am a triathlete specializing in Ironman distance races.  I am frustrated with my injury and I am seeking advice from any fellow runners/triathletes with similar experiences to get me back on the road.  Please help.

Response:

Seeking any information or experiences with iliotibial band injuries. Please respond with any advice or recommendations for treatment and recovery, what worked or did not work.  I was diagnosed six weeks ago and have been attending physical therapy four times per week since.  I have seen no improvement.  I am a triathlete specializing in Ironman distance races.  I am frustrated with my injury and I am seeking advice from any fellow runners/triathletes with similar experiences to get me back on the road.  Please help.

There is some material on my page on ITB syndrome. There are a few other pages with ITB info – a search at alta vista or lycos might help. http://www.clark.net/pub/pribut/spsport.html Steve Pribut

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Physio and a new (recommnded by physio) pair of shoes (ASICS) did it for me.

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I have this problem also, but I’ve only used the glasses a handful of times, so far.  It seems to be effecting me less now.        I also purchased a pair of prescription Oakleys about a year

and a half ago.  My problem was that I seemed to get some distortion at the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -edges of my field of vision.  It made me dizzy for the first couple of minutes I had them on each ride, but my eyes became accustomed to it.   Has anyone else had this problem?  Also, does anyone know if it is possible to have the prescription inserts in the Oakley Heaters changed without paying the huge initial price again?  Thanks, Turi

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:       I also purchased a pair of prescription Oakleys about a year and : a half ago.  My problem was that I seemed to get some distortion at the : edges of my field of vision.  It made me dizzy for the first couple of : minutes I had them on each ride, but my eyes became accustomed to it.   : Has anyone else had this problem?  Also, does anyone know if it is : possible to have the prescription inserts in the Oakley Heaters changed : without paying the huge initial price again?  Thanks, : Turi

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        I also purchased a pair of prescription Oakleys about a year and a half ago.  My problem was that I seemed to get some distortion at the edges of my field of vision.  It made me dizzy for the first couple of minutes I had them on each ride, but my eyes became accustomed to it.   Has anyone else had this problem?  Also, does anyone know if it is possible to have the prescription inserts in the Oakley Heaters changed without paying the huge initial price again?  Thanks, Turi

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| What do rX Oakley M’s cost?  I have never seen perscription Oakley before | and all the salespeople have told me that Bolle is the only one making | perscription wrap around glasses.  However, I like the Oakleys better, so | I’d get them if the price were competitive. | I spent the better part of last week comparing different types of perscription eyewear for competitive cycling and here’s what I found: Bolle:  Two snap-together lenses         Relatively cheap ($$$???)         Great wind protection         Easy to swap front lens for varying light conditions         Bulkier and heavier than single lens eyewear         Sweat and crap can get in between two lenses         Most perscriptions available, I would assume, since Rx frame is flat Oakley:         M’s:     Simple, single-lens                  Most expensive at $300                  Lightest weight                  Great wind protection                  Can’t swap front lens (extra Rx lenses cost $150 I think)                  +- 4.00 diopters available         E-wires: Simple, single lens                  $130 for frames, $100 for ploy-carb Rx lenses                  Medium weight (metal frame)                  Moderate wind protection                  Can’t swap lens                  Maybe +- 2.5 diopters with moderate base curve (3-5)         Eye Jackets:    Simple, single lens                         $85 for frames, $100 for poly-carb Rx lenses                         Light weight (plastic frame)                         Moderate to good wind protection                         Can’t swap lenses                               Maybe +- 2.5 diopters with moderate base curve (3-5) My first choice was the Eye Jacket, then the E-Wire with an Rx lens since I could change the lenses later, or install the original lenses to get a normal pair of sunglasses if I wanted.  Both were shot down by the base curve issue since my perscription is -3.25 (The ‘base curve’ of the lens is the limiting factor when the frame itself is curved). I ended up ordering a pair of M-frames with a persimon Rx Strike lens.  Should be here in a couple of weeks. If you can get ‘em in your perscription I say look at the Eye Jackets since they’re normal looking and relatively cheap and lightweight.   Hope this all helps, – Jim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently (today) switched to contacts because the wind was whipping around the outside of my glasses and making my eyes tear.  So now I want to purchase something that wraps around my face a little bit to keep the wind out.  BUT – I just couldn’t take myself seriously if I looked like some alien freak. Any suggestions? Dennis Villasana Dennis, Try some Oakley M-Frames with a Heater lens.  They wrap around a fair amount (it is the largest lens for the M-Frame) and they don’t look too bad even without your helmet… If the Heater lens is too big, try the Sweep lens… Good Luck, Chad…

Dennis, I would concur 100% with Chad.  I am in the same boat as you (contacts, eyes very susceptible to tearing), and the Heater lens has allowed me to exceed 50 m.p.h. with dry eyes.  I have also recently purchased the rX Oakley M’s w/ Heater lens.  Because of my bad stigmatism, my vision isn’t as good as with contacts, but they solve a few problems with contacts that I have come across. For one, I can just put them on to go on a training ride after I get home from work instead of going through the whole putting them in, taking them out, cleaning, etc.  Also, my astigmatic contacts are expensive.  Losing them during the swim leg of a triathlon just isn’t acceptible.  Neither is wearing citizen glasses – Giorgio Armani don’t bike!!  So, I swim blind and put the rX Oakleys on during the swim/bike transition.  Just some ideas and experiences. Doug

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What do rX Oakley M’s cost?  I have never seen perscription Oakley before and all the salespeople have told me that Bolle is the only one making perscription wrap around glasses.  However, I like the Oakleys better, so I’d get them if the price were competitive. : I would concur 100% with Chad.  I am in the same boat as you (contacts, eyes : very susceptible to tearing), and the Heater lens has allowed me to exceed 50 : m.p.h. with dry eyes.  I have also recently purchased the rX Oakley M’s w/ : Heater lens.  Because of my bad stigmatism, my vision isn’t as good as with : contacts, but they solve a few problems with contacts that I have come across. : For one, I can just put them on to go on a training ride after I get home from : work instead of going through the whole putting them in, taking them out, : cleaning, etc.  Also, my astigmatic contacts are expensive.  Losing them : during the swim leg of a triathlon just isn’t acceptible.  Neither is wearing : citizen glasses – Giorgio Armani don’t bike!!  So, I swim blind and put the rX : Oakleys on during the swim/bike transition.  Just some ideas and experiences. : Doug — Richard "In a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."                                                         -T.S. Eliot

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i know this is an old thread that unfortunately I didn’t pay too much attention to at the time, but what do people on this group use for eyewear? I recently (today) switched to contacts because the wind was whipping around the outside of my glasses and making my eyes tear.  So now I want to purchase something that wraps around my face a little bit to keep the wind out.  BUT – I just couldn’t take myself seriously if I looked like some alien freak. Any suggestions? Dennis Villasana

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I recently (today) switched to contacts because the wind was whipping around the outside of my glasses and making my eyes tear.  So now I want to purchase something that wraps around my face a little bit to keep the wind out.  BUT – I just couldn’t take myself seriously if I looked like some alien freak. Any suggestions? Dennis Villasana

Dennis, Try some Oakley M-Frames with a Heater lens.  They wrap around a fair amount (it is the largest lens for the M-Frame) and they don’t look too bad even without your helmet… If the Heater lens is too big, try the Sweep lens… Good Luck, Chad…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got a Polar Vantage XL heartrate monitor.  I am excited about the idea of using this to optimize training, and have heard many testimonials to its effectiveness.  Unfortunately, I haven’t seen much concrete information on how a serious athelete would use it (as opposed to someone who is just beginning a fitness program).  I am a distance runner with PR’s of 2:48 in the marathon and 35:02 in the 10k (33:19 on a point-to-point course).  I’ve been running for about 10 years.  I’m 26. I computed my "target range" using the traditional formula:      (220-age) * 70%         ..      (220-age) * 85% I’ve used it on a few runs, and I have found that my typical training pace would cause my heartrate to be above this target range the whole time.  I wonder if I have been training way too hard, or if I need to raise my target range.  How do I figure out whether I should just slow down or not (besides trial and error).  

I remember reading somewhere, that the maximum heart rate computed according to the above formula (i.e., HRmax = 220 – AGE) has a standard deviation of around 12.  In other words, however useful it might me in analyzing masses of data, as a guide to individual training it is essentially useless. The only way to infer your maximal heart rate, is to engage in a maximal effort, then stop and count your pulse (preferably before you throw up) over a ten-second interval.  My favourite maximal workout is a 400 meter run with a 75 meter climb!  More conventionally, enter a 1500 meter race, which is essentially run at 100%.  Try different things, but make sure they are maximal.  Imagine a grizley bear is after you. This weekend I will wear it during a hilly 5mi race to gather data (this monitor will record the heart rate every 5, 15, or 60 seconds).  I won’t use it to modify my effort this time, I just want to see what my heart is doing during a race.  Assuming I run at full effort, will this be some percentage of my maximum heart rate? I would appreciate any advice or references to published materials that address these questions.

Here are some numbers from David L. Costill, Inside Running:  Basics of Sport Physiology (Indianapolis:  Benchmark Press):         Distance        %VO2 MAX         1500m           100%         10K             90%         10 me           80%         Mar             75% Again, there are some variations here.  Treat these as ball park. — School of Computer Science Carnegie Mellon University                         (412) 268-5884

– St. John’s, Newfoundland A1C 5S7 Canada

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I computed my "target range" using the traditional formula:      (220-age) * 70%         ..      (220-age) * 85% I’ve used it on a few runs, and I have found that my typical training pace would cause my heartrate to be above this target range the whole time.  I wonder if I have been training way too hard, or if I need to raise my target range.  How do I figure out whether I should just slow down or not (besides trial and error).  

(I’m a cyclist, not a runner, but find this newsgroup very interesting.) My personal heart rate monitor consists of the following: How hard am I breathing, how much am I sweating. Nevertheless, biofeedback mechanisms are sense extension devices which have obvious positive qualities.  Just remember that all those published charts are merely educated guesses about ‘average’ situations.  People who rely on books too much do not understand physical training. To answer your question.  Experiment.  Use the heart rate monitor as an extension of yourself.  You will learn from it and it will aid you. Dennis Allard

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I have used a heart-rate monitor for the last 3 years.  I use it during pre-season training in order to keep from working to hard while I am building my base.  When the season starts the monitor hits the shelf.  I feel its time to "listen to my body" since I will be doing a lot of hard workouts.  I am a triathlete and will use it on the bike to push myslef though.  Cycling is my forte and I have to hammer awfully hard to get my heart rate in the TZ (unless its hot or hilly).   I can think about running and get it in the TZ.  :-) I would recommend that you don’t alter your training, but use the monitor to gather data for a while then set up a training plan.  Judging by your PRs I’d say you are doing pretty darn good already. Earlier this year I decided to force myself to stay within the TZ while running to see what would happen.  I did this during the race season.  My workouts got easier but my running slipped.  Thats when the monitor hit the shelf and my running improved. Good Luck! Tom

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