Question:

You *do* realize that ball room dancing is slated to be an Olympic sport some day?  I kid you not.  We can’t get orienteering, a sport that combines extremely fast running over rough terrain with precision map reading and decision making, but ball room dancing evidently has an in because NBC wants it.

We have ballroom dancing now in the Olympics.  It occurs during the winter games and the "athelets" wear skates. Corky Scott

Response:

You *do* realize that ball room dancing is slated to be an Olympic sport some day?  I kid you not.  We can’t get orienteering, a sport that combines extremely fast running over rough terrain with precision map reading and decision making, but ball room dancing evidently has an in because NBC wants it. We have ballroom dancing now in the Olympics.  It occurs during the winter games and the "athelets" wear skates.

And it is god awful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Corky Scott

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it. Man, I couldn’t agree more. My main beef with TV coverage of the Olympics for, oh, the last 30 years or so is that it’s become the quadrennial gymnastics championship. It’s really little more than a massive open audition for the next big commercial spokesperson. Meanwhile, those of us who want to see silly, frivolous stuff like track & field are left out in the cold.   At least they show some track.  The sports I want to see: judo, TKD, boxing and wrestling; get zero coverage.  I don’t have cable and broadcast

Get one of those little satellite dishes. Either Dish Network or Direct TV.  They throw in the receivers if you subscribe for a year and it’s cheaper than cable. NBC has shown a total of ~7min of Judo!!!  Hopefully there will be tapes (or better DVDs) of the individual events for latter viewing.   Has there been any boxing coverage (I haven’t checked)?

Lots on satellite.  Between NBC, CNBC, USA, Bravo, MSNBC and a few others there is almost 24 hour coverage and nearly every event is covered.  Can’t say as I’ve watched much…Beach volleyball was interesting<:-))  Actually I didn’t watch much of that either. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com

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   At least they show some track.  The sports I want to see: judo, TKD, boxing and wrestling; get zero coverage.

Same here — I’d like to see the riflery. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

Response:

We have ballroom dancing now in the Olympics.  It occurs during the winter games and the "athelets" wear skates. And it is god awful.

Certainly not as bad as my dancing. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

Response:

We have ballroom dancing now in the Olympics.  It occurs during the winter games and the "athelets" wear skates. And it is god awful. Certainly not as bad as my dancing.

I’ve never seen you dance but sight unseen would prefer it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

Response:

In a previous article, "C J Campbell"

between 20 and 100 miles, then run between 2 and 20 miles. Every day. We think it is fun, until our knees and feet give out and we hit a car and we end up crippled and 60 lbs overweight. Until then, we think it is fun. Been there, done that, have the chronic knee pain and the 60 pounds.  But my sports were cross country skiing and orienteering.

Hmmm…my sports were baseball and golf. I was (by "official" numbers) 10-15 lbs overweight when I was 20 and throwing a 92 MPH fastball. Now 32 years later, I’m "20 lbs overweight" (6′1", 205 – 17 1/2" neck, 48" chest, 38" waist…which used to be 36") and my wrecked my knees and back during a 65MPH hit of a freeway barrier wall at a 45 degree angle with three rolls. My idea of exercise was walking 18 two or three times a week. And I still play to a 7-10 handicap and drive the ball 260.

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The return so far has been poor, but that’s not slowing the people who want NY to host them down. They’re now bragging about how well cities that hosted the Olymics are doing 20 years later. Sorta like arguing that you should invest in this ’cause it’ll pay off for your kids.

That’s not completely unreasonable logic.  However, I hope my kids aren’t so foolish as to live in this area.  I want them surpass me; not repeat my mistakes <laugh.         – Andrew

Response:

Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it. Man, I couldn’t agree more. My main beef with TV coverage of the Olympics for, oh, the last 30 years or so is that it’s become the quadrennial gymnastics championship. It’s really little more than a massive open audition for the next big commercial spokesperson. Meanwhile, those of us who want to see silly, frivolous stuff like track & field are left out in the cold.

   At least they show some track.  The sports I want to see: judo, TKD, boxing and wrestling; get zero coverage.  I don’t have cable and broadcast NBC has shown a total of ~7min of Judo!!!  Hopefully there will be tapes (or better DVDs) of the individual events for latter viewing.    Has there been any boxing coverage (I haven’t checked)?

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  At least they show some track.  The sports I want to see: judo, TKD, boxing and wrestling; get zero coverage.  I don’t have cable and broadcast

Back when I was a cross country ski racer, I got to talking to John Caldwell, the coach of the US National Team.  He said that in 1980 at Lake Placid, *every* TV in the Olympic village was tuned to CBC, because NBC only showed sports that the US medalled in, so if you cared about some other sport, you had to watch CBC.  He didn’t have to add that the CBC couldn’t only show sports that Canada medalled in, because the Canadian team sucked so much that year that it would be the "All Brian Orser, All the Time" show. — I’m a Darwinian carnivore.  I only eat things that weren’t fit enough to prevent their being killed.               — Mike Sphar

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/excerpt Concerning the scoring controversy involving Paul Hamm and the incorrect start value of the South Korean, why are so few news outlets reporting the other scoring problem? Yan Tae-Young also performed a parallel bar routine that incorporated four holds when only three are allowed. This should have been a mandatory two-tenths of a point deduction. If you are going to review tape to make sure the judges got the start value correct, then shouldn’t the missed mandatory also be corrected? The one-tenth gained by adjusting the start value would be more than offset by the two-tenths loss. Last night NBC gymnastics commentator Tim Daggett went over the tape and showed where all four holds were and agreed that Hamm should have the sole gold for the event. Daggett has been exceptionally fair in his evaluations, remaking when he thinks scores have been too high or low. /end excerpt

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You *do* realize that ball room dancing is slated to be an Olympic sport some day?  I kid you not.  We can’t get orienteering, a sport that combines extremely fast running over rough terrain with precision map reading and decision making, but ball room dancing evidently has an in because NBC wants it. We have ballroom dancing now in the Olympics.  It occurs during the winter games and the "athelets" wear skates. And it is god awful.

Love it. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Corky Scott

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Hmmm…my sports were baseball and golf.

Mine were 8-ball and the 12 ounce wrist curls. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

Response:

You *do* realize that ball room dancing is slated to be an Olympic sport some day?  I kid you not.  We can’t get orienteering, a sport that combines extremely fast running over rough terrain with precision map reading and decision making, but ball room dancing evidently has an in because NBC wants it. We have ballroom dancing now in the Olympics.  It occurs during the winter games and the "athelets" wear skates.

There is no such thing as "sports" in cold weather — there is only survival in cold weather.

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OK, I watched the weightlifting competition. Here are these guys who come out onto the floor and pick up a set of weights that weigh more than my whole airplane with me inside it. They lift it (the weights, not my airplane) high above their heads until, as Dave Barry says, their eyeballs are ejected across the room. Then they drop the weights crashing back down to the floor. Anyway, have you seen these guys? My sport was triathlon, thank you very much — and most triathletes consider themselves to be in pretty good shape. I mean, we get up every day, swim a mile or three, ride our bikes for between 20 and 100 miles, then run between 2 and 20 miles. Every day. We think it is fun, until our knees and feet give out and we hit a car and we end up crippled and 60 lbs overweight. Until then, we think it is fun. So, I see in the news that one of the Greek weightlifters was disqualified because he had too much testosterone in his body. Hey, I watched the women weightlifters, and *they* have too much testosterone in their bodies. So what is this limit all about, anyway? If you are a weightlifter you get, what only 100 times as much testosterone as your typical lumberjack, and no more? I mean, I thought you needed a lot of testosterone to be a triathlete. I don’t think I understand weightlifting at all. Oh, and if any of you weightlifters come around here, please put my airplane down gently. It gets enough abuse from the guys who fly it. — Christopher J. Campbell World Famous Flight Instructor Port Orchard, WA If you go around beating the Bush, don’t complain if you rile the animals.

Response:

between 20 and 100 miles, then run between 2 and 20 miles. Every day. We think it is fun, until our knees and feet give out and we hit a car and we end up crippled and 60 lbs overweight. Until then, we think it is fun.

Been there, done that, have the chronic knee pain and the 60 pounds.  But my sports were cross country skiing and orienteering. So, I see in the news that one of the Greek weightlifters was disqualified because he had too much testosterone in his body. Hey, I watched the women

They know how much testosterone a human body can produce, even such an inhuman human body as a world class weight lifter.  If you have more, it’s because you’re chemically enhanced. Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it. — Like most computer techie people, I’ll happily spend 6 hours trying to figure out how to do a 3 hour job in 10 minutes.               –Rev. James Cort, ASR

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Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it.

That’s a good start.  If they’d eliminate the ones where timing or a referee was used, we could get back to our regularly scheduled programming.         Mike Beede

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Oh, and if any of you weightlifters come around here, please put my airplane down gently. It gets enough abuse from the guys who fly it.

LOL!  Well said!

Response:

Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it.

Man, I couldn’t agree more. My main beef with TV coverage of the Olympics for, oh, the last 30 years or so is that it’s become the quadrennial gymnastics championship. It’s really little more than a massive open audition for the next big commercial spokesperson. Meanwhile, those of us who want to see silly, frivolous stuff like track & field are left out in the cold.

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They’re having an Olympics again?  Time sure does fly.   Not that I wish the current locale ill, but I hope the economics are such that New York City gets this foolish idea out of its uncollective head.         – Andrew

Response:

Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it.

Well how about softball? Volleyball? Whjat the hell happened to the true spirit of finding the best in the world –  fastest/highest/longest etc.? They’ll be having Ludo & Snakes & Ladders soon at this rate. Tony (Who used to play a mean game of Ludo  Anyone want to nominate me for the next one — Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Cessna 172H C-GICE

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Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it. Man, I couldn’t agree more. My main beef with TV coverage of the Olympics for, oh, the last 30 years or so is that it’s become the quadrennial gymnastics championship. It’s really little more than a massive open audition for the next big commercial spokesperson. Meanwhile, those of us who want to see silly, frivolous stuff like track & field are left out in the cold.

You go to bed too early.  Stay up till 3:00 AM and you could have seen them.  NBC has been Olympics nearly all night long. At least something preempts basketball, foot ball and baseball. (and pro wresteling)<:-)) Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com

Response:

Personally, my off topic Olympic rant is that any so-called sport where who won or lost is determined by a judge should be removed.  Diving, figure skating, synchonized swimming, gymnastics, dressage, gone. Unfortunately NBC wouldn’t stand for it. Well how about softball? Volleyball? Whjat the hell happened to the true spirit of finding the best in the world –  fastest/highest/longest etc.?

I have no objection to those sports, because they’re decided by a score board, not by judges. They’ll be having Ludo & Snakes & Ladders soon at this rate.

You *do* realize that ball room dancing is slated to be an Olympic sport some day?  I kid you not.  We can’t get orienteering, a sport that combines extremely fast running over rough terrain with precision map reading and decision making, but ball room dancing evidently has an in because NBC wants it. — A male pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he’s flying, and about flying when he’s with a woman.

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They’re having an Olympics again?  Time sure does fly. Not that I wish the current locale ill, but I hope the economics are such that New York City gets this foolish idea out of its uncollective head.         – Andrew

The Greeks spent 7 billion which is 3 billon over budget and the stands are half empty/full.  The return if it ever comes will be decades down the road.

Response:

Not that I wish the current locale ill, but I hope the economics are such that New York City gets this foolish idea out of its uncollective head.

The return so far has been poor, but that’s not slowing the people who want NY to host them down. They’re now bragging about how well cities that hosted the Olymics are doing 20 years later. Sorta like arguing that you should invest in this ’cause it’ll pay off for your kids. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

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Question:

Although I haven’t tried it, something tells me vinegar might work. Get in the shower, pour the stuff over your head and body, let it sit for a second, and then shower as usual. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks. Paul

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Ruth, if you smell like chlorine, I’ll follow you anywhere. Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guess so or you are dating the wrong women!  All my life I have almost exclusively dated swimmers/triathletes…and it isn’t just for their awesome bodies!  Chlorine scent is FAR more appealing than any cologne.   But then again I also love the smell of fresh tar on a hot summer’s day, gasoline (even the special winter blend they have around here till Feb) and beach balls, so maybe it is just me. -hug(who eschews lotions and special soaps and accepts itchiness as a small price to pay to smell of chlorine – yum!) I can’t believe there’s someone else in this world who sniffs gasoline and fresh tar as I do.  Of course, chlorine is the greatest pheromone in the world. It also signals *home* away from home, always a welcoming smell.  But soaps and perfumes and the like are anathema to me. Ruth Kazez (It’s a lovely white frosty nippy morning here.  I hope everyone is enjoying this season, especially Ken and DE who are season-deprived and are dependent on whatever snowy illusions they can dream up with their laced passion fruit.  As for cointreau and tequila, I’ll take that with my guava, thank you.)

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Use some baking powder on your washcloth or mixed in with your gel soap.  Make sure to use a good body lotion afterward.  Do not use baking soda on your hair…unless you want to be prematurely gray. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks. Paul

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Chlorine scent is FAR more appealing than any cologne.   But then again I also love the smell of fresh tar on a hot summer’s day, gasoline (even the special winter blend they have around here till Feb) and beach balls, so maybe it is just me.

Where have you been all my life? -hug(who eschews lotions and special soaps and accepts itchiness as a small price to pay to smell of chlorine – yum!)

More fun to scratch.

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I can’t believe there’s someone else in this world who sniffs gasoline and fresh tar as I do.

Acetone, anyone?

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You guys on rst sure do have your cosmetics problems, your soaps and shampoos, depilatories and deodorants, sinus cleansers, ear depluggers, and so on forever.  Tell me, Schwing: before your deflora…umm, how do you make a noun out of deflower – help me out here, Brian

You were headed in the right direction; ‘defloration’ would work, or you could just use ‘deflowering,’ "carnal debut," or any number of other colorful euphemisms.  Hey, why do I always get asked these questions, anyway?

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Where have you been all my life?

Oh, probably spending hours in the pool rather than on the computer arguing on-line <g.  Actually you’ve been rather mellow lately…I’m sure it won’t last long though. BTW, yes, acetone is nice, but Wite Out is nicer – though maybe that contains some acetone? -hug (who was once caught sniffing floor mats and tires at Pep Boys – another customer asked if the tires were scented!)

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Oh, probably spending hours in the pool rather than on the computer arguing on-line <g.

Or in a dumpster somewhere looking for breakfast? Actually you’ve been rather mellow lately…I’m sure it won’t last long though.

I’ve been off line for ten days, but nobody’s said anything egregiously dumb to respond to either.   BTW, yes, acetone is nice, but Wite Out is nicer – though maybe that contains some acetone?

Are you hold enough to remember ditto (mimeograph) machines, and the smell of fresh ditto sheets? -hug (who was once caught sniffing floor mats and tires at Pep Boys – another customer asked if the tires were scented!)

Be still my heart.  Someone told me the auto parts store was the best place to meet quality people.

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You guys on rst sure do have your cosmetics problems, your soaps and shampoos, depilatories and deodorants, sinus cleansers, ear depluggers, and so on forever.  Tell me, Schwing: before your deflora…umm, how do you make a noun out of deflower – help me out here, Brian You were headed in the right direction; ‘defloration’ would work, or you could just use ‘deflowering,’

. . . which is the usage I’ve always seen – ‘Deflowering’

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys on rst sure do have your cosmetics problems, your soaps and shampoos, depilatories and deodorants, sinus cleansers, ear depluggers, and so on forever.  Tell me, Schwing: before your deflora…umm, how do you make a noun out of deflower – help me out here, Brian You were headed in the right direction; ‘defloration’ would work, or you could just use ‘deflowering,’ . . . which is the usage I’ve always seen – ‘Deflowering’

Yes, but why am I always the one asked these questions?

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I can’t be all bad.  Today at the office about 1 hour out of the pool I was standing with a group when someone commented "what’s that smell, it smells like a candle" After a long pause someone else said "No it smells like a pool"  —  I confessed. Not sure what the solution is so you might as well get used to it.

and don’t discount the fact that some chicks dig it. — f otINOKYad

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and don’t discount the fact that some chicks dig it. — f otINOKYad

Hmmm, in my 15 years of swimming and 10 years of triathlon, I’ve never had a woman compliment me on my chlorine tablet smell. I must be living in the wrong area then. Iron Pete "Eau de Chlorine anyone?" Priolo

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Ultra Swim makes a liquid soap product called Ultra Swim Shower Gel. I use every day. It helps immensely to rid the chlorine aroma. ….. I still find the need to use Lubriderm all over after a swim/shower,

 ….yadda yadda yadda. You guys on rst sure do have your cosmetics problems, your soaps and shampoos, depilatories and deodorants, sinus cleansers, ear depluggers, and so on forever.  Tell me, Schwing: before your deflora…umm, how do you make a noun out of deflower – help me out here, Brian…anyhow, before your bmw awakening, were cosmetics a problem or are these the concerns of maturity for which I must look forward. Ruth "toujours au naturel" Kazez

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Grapefruit extract, eh? So it’s not just for fat-burning anymore! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks. Try a shampoo with grapefruit extract. I used it at the recommendation of my er, well, OK, hairdresser, to get rid of the chlorine from my hair; worked admirably as a body wash, too. Marc R

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And here I thought women wanted a sensitive guy. Must not have been sensitive skin they were talking about. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultra Swim makes a liquid soap product called Ultra Swim Shower Gel. I use every day. It helps immensely to rid the chlorine aroma. ….. I still find the need to use Lubriderm all over after a swim/shower,  ….yadda yadda yadda. You guys on rst sure do have your cosmetics problems, your soaps and shampoos, depilatories and deodorants, sinus cleansers, ear depluggers, and so on forever.  Tell me, Schwing: before your deflora…umm, how do you make a noun out of deflower – help me out here, Brian…anyhow, before your bmw awakening, were cosmetics a problem or are these the concerns of maturity for which I must look forward. Ruth "toujours au naturel" Kazez

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Ultra Swim makes a liquid soap product called Ultra Swim Shower Gel. I use every day. It helps immensely to rid the chlorine aroma. (I kind of like the smell though).

I thought I was the only one. I don’t exactly love the smell, but it’s as close as you can get to the pool without actually going to the pool.  

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if you take a good shower before you swim,  your skin won’t suck up all that chlorinated water in the pool.  it helps todd sandiego

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Hmmm, in my 15 years of swimming and 10 years of triathlon, I’ve never had a woman compliment me on my chlorine tablet smell. I must be living in the wrong area then.

Guess so or you are dating the wrong women!  All my life I have almost exclusively dated swimmers/triathletes…and it isn’t just for their awesome bodies!  Chlorine scent is FAR more appealing than any cologne.   But then again I also love the smell of fresh tar on a hot summer’s day, gasoline (even the special winter blend they have around here till Feb) and beach balls, so maybe it is just me. -hug(who eschews lotions and special soaps and accepts itchiness as a small price to pay to smell of chlorine – yum!)

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That’s right, and we wouldn’t have to use so much chlorine either. Ken,swims in the ocean,DaVico

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you take a good shower before you swim,  your skin won’t suck up all that chlorinated water in the pool.  it helps todd sandiego

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Guess so or you are dating the wrong women!  All my life I have almost exclusively dated swimmers/triathletes…and it isn’t just for their awesome bodies!  Chlorine scent is FAR more appealing than any cologne.   But then again I also love the smell of fresh tar on a hot summer’s day, gasoline (even the special winter blend they have around here till Feb) and beach balls, so maybe it is just me. -hug(who eschews lotions and special soaps and accepts itchiness as a small price to pay to smell of chlorine – yum!)

I can’t believe there’s someone else in this world who sniffs gasoline and fresh tar as I do.  Of course, chlorine is the greatest pheromone in the world. It also signals *home* away from home, always a welcoming smell.  But soaps and perfumes and the like are anathema to me. Ruth Kazez (It’s a lovely white frosty nippy morning here.  I hope everyone is enjoying this season, especially Ken and DE who are season-deprived and are dependent on whatever snowy illusions they can dream up with their laced passion fruit.  As for cointreau and tequila, I’ll take that with my guava, thank you.)

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Ultra Swim makes a liquid soap product called Ultra Swim Shower Gel. I use every day. It helps immensely to rid the chlorine aroma. (I kind of like the smell though). I’d say it has a 90 % effectiveness rate, as if I begin sweating I can sometimes get a slight whiff of pool water but not at all like if I just use regular soap. I still find the need to use Lubriderm all over after a swim/shower, no matter what I do. In fact, my back is itching right now because it is the only spot I can’t get the Ultra Swim and Lubriderm to. As Ken said, check out the chlorine content of your pool. The pool where I swim goes very easy on the chlorine yet the smell is still there on the skin. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks. Paul

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Perhaps you need to question the chlorine content of the pool. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks. Paul

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I can’t be all bad.  Today at the office about 1 hour out of the pool I was standing with a group when someone commented "what’s that smell, it smells like a candle" After a long pause someone else said "No it smells like a pool"  —  I confessed. Not sure what the solution is so you might as well get used to it. Wayne

| I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower | regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean | and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? | Thanks. | | Paul |

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I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks. Paul

Response:

I can’t get rid of the chlorine smell for two days after a swim. I shower regularly, but it seems to take 2-3 showers before I smell fresh and clean and rid of chlorine. Can anyone suggest something besides sandblasting? Thanks.

Try a shampoo with grapefruit extract. I used it at the recommendation of my er, well, OK, hairdresser, to get rid of the chlorine from my hair; worked admirably as a body wash, too. Marc R

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Question:

Michael The main key to running your first marathon is to get to the starting line healthy. Big Sur is a beautiful marathon and you need to make it an enjoyable experience.

I would agree about doing some of your training on the roads.  The road at Big Sur is highly cambered and kills your ankles. I also had the worst blisters on both feet after that race last year.  But it’s a great race and a beautiful course.  Good luck. clm in sf — Cathy Morgan, San Francisco, CA 1/00 SF 1/2 Marathon; 4/00 St. Anthony’s Tri; 5/00 IM California 7/00  Vineman 1/2 IM; 8/00 Mrs. T’s Triathlon; 10/00 Off to Kona

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I’m training for my 1st marathon (Big Sur Marathon, end of April). It’s rated moderately difficult due to it’s hilly nature. My problem is I love to train off road on trails which are hilly however I’ve been told I need to train mostly on the road since the course is on pavement. Most of the roads around here are flat. How important is it to train on the road? Thanks in advance. Michael

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I have read numerous world class marathon runners that only run on the roads for races only.  All their training is off-road. Off-road running will generate less impact which help keep you injury free during those long traiing runs.  I personally highly recommend running off-road as much as possible. Just look at the Kenyans… jff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m training for my 1st marathon (Big Sur Marathon, end of April). It’s rated moderately difficult due to it’s hilly nature. My problem is I love to train off road on trails which are hilly however I’ve been told I need to train mostly on the road since the course is on pavement. Most of the roads around here are flat. How important is it to train on the road? Thanks in advance. Michael

Before you buy.

Response:

I’m training for my 1st marathon (Big Sur Marathon, end of April). It’s rated moderately difficult due to it’s hilly nature. My problem is I love to train off road on trails which are hilly however I’ve been told I need to train mostly on the road since the course is on pavement. Most of the roads around here are flat. How important is it to train on the road?

My own personal take (coming from a "big" runner who pounds more than the average marathoner): I do the majority of my training on trails.  All the marathons I’ve done have been totally on roads.  I’ve had no problems.   I think you’re better off running as much as you can on trails and saving the pounding of the road for race day.  However, you don’t want to eschew the road entirely—don’t want your legs to be totally shocked by running on that surface.  So a good compromise is probably 70-80% trail running, 20-30% road. This works well for me because my two main training routes involve running on roads to *get to and from* the trails. YMMV, but this has worked just fine for me.  Good luck! TriBaby                                     _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "Real triathletes don’t draft." http://www.stanford.edu/~brooksie *New to triathlon?  Check out Hulaman’s Simple TriTips:  http://www.hulaman.com/triathlon/tritips.html    

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I agree with what TriBaby said, but I’ll put in my two cents also. I always break in a new pair of shoes about three weeks before the race (including my last long run). Going into a marathon with shoes that have no more than 50-75 miles on them is great for road shock. Also, speaking from experience (Big Sur ‘93, 3:14), your initial pace is all the more critical on such a hilly course!!!! Go out too fast and it will eat you alive:-)

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Michael The main key to running your first marathon is to get to the starting line healthy. Big Sur is a beautiful marathon and you need to make it an enjoyable experience. Training on trails is fine. It will be easier on your legs and the hill training will help. Just for your piece of mind,every other weekend get in a longer run on the streets just to help your confidence. I’d love to help you with your schedule. Please feel free to ROCK ON! Jerry Frostick www.finalkick.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–Original Message—– Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:21 PM  Message from the Deja.com forum:  rec.sport.triathlon  Your subscription is set to individual email delivery I’m training for my 1st marathon (Big Sur Marathon, end of April). It’s rated moderately difficult due to it’s hilly nature. My problem is I love to train off road on trails which are hilly however I’ve been told I need to train mostly on the road since the course is on pavement. Most of the roads around here are flat. How important is it to train on the road? Thanks in advance. Michael  Deja.com: Before you buy.  * To modify or remove your subscription, go to  * Read this thread at

 Before you buy.

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I have read numerous world class marathon runners that only run on the roads for races only.  All their training is off-road. Off-road running will generate less impact which help keep you injury free during those long traiing runs.  I personally highly recommend running off-road as much as possible. Just look at the Kenyans…

Also, once you get on smooth pavement to compete, the terrain is one less thing to pay attention to that you normally allocate "processor cycles" to, freeing up more mental resources for things like pacing, etc.

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Question:

I am thinking of doing the 2000 Pineman next year. did anyone do it this year?  Can you give me a short report on conditions, etc?  I understand the bike course is being chaged. How about lodging?  Recommendations? Rob

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did anyone do it this year?  Can you give me a short report on conditions, etc?  I understand the bike course is being chaged. How about lodging?  Recommendations?

Rob, I did it this year – such that it was. They started the swim in a thick fog, which got worse instead of better.  So people swam about 1/2 mile and then were totally lost and there was no support to be found – and if you did happen upon someone in a canoe, they were as lost as you.  Needless to say, the swim was eventually canceled, but only after many tense moments waiting for everyone to be accounted for. It took so long to "find everyone" on the swim, that the bike course was cut in 1/2 – i.e., 56 miles.  The course was extremely hilly (to me – but I’m strictly a flat lander).  They claim it will be a new bike course for 2000, supposedly easier.  BTW, the support on the bike course did NOT include a single port-a-potty.  :-( The run was along a hike and bike trail (all except for about 9 miles).  The mile markers, when there were some, were wrong.  There were sufficient aid stations, but they weren’t spaced evenly – so some would be 2 miles apart and the next might be 1/2 mile apart.  Again, I could only find one port-a-potty on the run course.  This course is also supposedly changed for the 2000 race. In fairness, for a first time event (that’s for the race and the race director) things could have been far worse.  Some of it was just poor organization on the race director’s part (e.g., NO water available at the start area, not sufficient communication to the volunteers, no/improper mile markers, etc.).  Some of it was just bad luck, e.g. the fog. As for lodging, I would guess it won’t be the same for 2000 as for last year.  For ‘99, the race finished right in downtown Mansfield, about 2 blocks from the Holiday Inn – which was the race hotel.  They ran buses from the hotel to the lake where the swim started.  But for 2000, everything starts and ends at the lake.  So I don’t believe it will be that big of a deal where you stay.  There may be an official race hotel designated and buses provided to/from the lake, but there is no information about that yet that I’ve seen. I hope I didn’t paint to gloomy of a picture.  I believe the race director learned a lot about putting on an ironman distance race. All this said, I’m thinking about trying it again.  I live in Texas now, but I grew up in Ohio.  That’s pretty country where the race is held, and the weather at that time of year is usually just about perfect for a triathlon.  (But it can vary greatly.) Good luck.  Feel free to email if you want additional information. Cary — http://members.tripod.com/ccpurdy Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am thinking of doing the 2000 Pineman next year. did anyone do it this year?  Can you give me a short report on conditions, etc?  I understand the bike course is being chaged. How about lodging?  Recommendations? Rob

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Question:

Does anyone have a good reference for a manufacturer of quality tri apparel that works with teams and clubs?

I gotta jump on the De Soto bandwagon.  The quality of our uniforms is great and the service is outstanding.  They have worked hard for our business and talk about loyal to the sport.  I don’t see anyone else doing the kind of deals De Soto does with clubs. Gary McMurtrey Inland Inferno Triathlon Club http://members.aol.com/infernotri/home.htm

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I’m sure I’ll catch grief for this…as a flagrant offender of the over congratulatory messages regarding De Soto (Ironman Wetsuits, Fuel Belt, Quic Disc, et al)… but I have to say De Soto has been a tremendous sponsor of my club.   Now, I know the usual suspects are already beginning to groan at yet another compliment be aired on their turf, but try to let this one slip by.  My club has placed 3 or 4 orders this season with De Soto for uniform orders (large and small).  As we  have heard (dozens of times), the quality is top notch.  What hasn’t been mentioned  often enough is the customer service.  Orders arrive on time, accurate and at a great price.  Emilio is always responsive via email – a great convenience to us East Coasters – and has been willing to accomodate last minute additions to orders.  He’s made my job, as a club uniform purchaser, much easier in the long run.     Ok, that is as mushy as I’ll get for fear of offending any hardcore RSTers who’d rather not read more of this mush.  Get back to discussing something less congenial…like drafting Thanks for indulging, Steve Kelley Southeastern Massachusetts Triathlon Club www.semtc.org Disclaimer:  Humor WAS intended by this message…regardless, let the insults fly.

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Why not buy clothes for your team from someone that not only designs the stuff, but also has been doing triathlons for almost 20 years, and also is very active in RST? Check out our website at Http://www.desotosport.com Call me at 800 453 6673 Emilio De Soto II Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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Thanks for the referal Eric.  I hope to continue with working with you guys! Emilio Triathlete/President and Designer De Soto Sport Triathlon Clothing Email me for a free catalog

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Does anyone have a good reference for a manufacturer of quality tri apparel that works with teams and clubs?

Bill- I belong to a tri club here in Denver and we suit up with DeSoto clothes. Super quality, very nice looking and Desoto’s liberal exchange policy makes fitting much less stressful then the ususal mail order venues. Clay T Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Check out Emilio DeSoto’s great line of Tri Clothes at http://www.desotosport.com/ Eric Averill Southeast Massachusetts Triathlon Club

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Does anyone have a good reference for a manufacturer of quality tri apparel that works with teams and clubs? I am looking for male/female race singlets, swimsuits, run shorts, bike jerseys and bike shorts that I can have our club/team logo embroidered and screened upon. I appreciate any contacts or ideas you may have. If you would email me any pertinent info at

Ross

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I was looking at www.alexausa.com this morning.  They say that they do sublization (sp?).  Their web site is pretty weak for getting an idea of how the clothing looks on a person though. Post it if you find something good… Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good reference for a manufacturer of quality tri apparel that works with teams and clubs? I am looking for male/female race singlets, swimsuits, run shorts, bike jerseys and bike shorts that I can have our club/team logo embroidered and screened upon. I appreciate any contacts or ideas you may have. If you would email me any pertinent info at

Response:

Does anyone have a good reference for a manufacturer of quality tri apparel that works with teams and clubs? I am looking for male/female race singlets, swimsuits, run shorts, bike jerseys and bike shorts that I can have our club/team logo embroidered and screened upon. I appreciate any contacts or ideas you may have. If you would email me any pertinent info at

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Question:

: I beleive Dana, the original poster is looking for a 43 cm frame (probably : with 650c and potentially a shorter top tube…. being female) so your point : is well taken. This is indeed what I’m looking for, and I had been aware of the potential problem – though had forgotten to be alert for it until Sanjay reminded me (thanks). Terry is one of the strongest contenders among my choices right now (if I could just find one to test ride! the supply seems to have dried up, at least around Boston).  The Terry catalog addresses this issue with some interesting points: "If you use a 700C wheel on the front of a bicycle, you can only shorten the top tube so much (to about 53cm) before the front wheel overlaps with the pedal … A 26" road tire [allows you to] shorten the top tube … to about 51 cm … A 24" road tire is about 5cm smaller in radius than a 700C tire, so the top tube can be shortened to about 48cm with no problems. "Terry uses 24" in the front on its smaller road bikes (48.3cm and under) so we can have more latitude for good design." Then comes a discussion of the compromises others make to avoid toe clip overlap, including a steeper seat angle: "The problem with this? You will be too far forward of the pedals, unable to establish the proper relationship between your knee and the pedal spindle.  You won’t be as efficient a rider, and knee problems may result."  Another work-around is a shallower head angle and more rake, with the resulting problem of sluggish handling. Later the disclaimer: "Granted, this isn’t a problem that will occur with ordinary riding.  You’ll only notice it on very sharp slow speed turns, such as when you make a U-turn, or if you’ve just started up from a stop and make a sharp turn to catch your balance before you get going.  If you don’t react quickly enough, it can bring you down." Whew — I’m learning a lot in this process.  Thanks to all who have responded here and by email. *Dana

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Mark, I ride a 48cm Marinoni frame with 700c wheels and managed not to have any interference. Pleased with that turn of events. I beleive Dana, the original poster is looking for a 43 cm frame (probably with 650c and potentially a shorter top tube…. being female) so your point is well taken. Sanjay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regardless of the bike you choose make sure whatever you order does not have any interference between your foot and the wheel when you turn and when your foot is forward on the pedals. (Toe clip wheel interference). This can happen with smaller bikes. This is good advice, but also bad advice. It’s almost impossible to build a small frame that doesn’t exhibit some amount of toe overlap with the front wheel.  To totally design it out of the bike would require seriously compromising other parameters that would change the handling and fit. Most folks ride bikes that have some toe overlap – it’s just not a big problem since it can only occur when you’re going very, very slowly. Plus, a couple minutes in a parking lot practicing "accidentally" bumping your front wheel will help program your feet what to do.

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Dana I bought a Cannondale Compact two years ago and have been really pleased with it.  Just be prepared for the ‘cute’ comments from fellow triathletes – ‘are you sure it’s old enough to leave it’s mother’ was one of the more common ones : ) Liz

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Regardless of the bike you choose make sure whatever you order does not have any interference between your foot and the wheel when you turn and when your foot is forward on the pedals. (Toe clip wheel interference). This can happen with smaller bikes.

This is good advice, but also bad advice. It’s almost impossible to build a small frame that doesn’t exhibit some amount of toe overlap with the front wheel.  To totally design it out of the bike would require seriously compromising other parameters that would change the handling and fit. Most folks ride bikes that have some toe overlap – it’s just not a big problem since it can only occur when you’re going very, very slowly. Plus, a couple minutes in a parking lot practicing "accidentally" bumping your front wheel will help program your feet what to do. Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/ Home of the $675 ti frame

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I’m in the market for my first ‘real’ bike (and flirting with the transition from running to triathlon, hence the purchase).  My height of just under 5′ seems to have (mercifully!) limited my options, and at the moment I’m down to only a couple of selections based on what is available locally for me to try out. Just wondering if anyone has any comments on something in the 16"/43cm or thereabouts category.  Thanks! *Dana

One suggestion: The Cannondale R-600 compact (26” wheels) goes down to size 43c and is reasonably priced..  If you intend to use the bike for for triathlons–arms on aerobars in an aero position, you really need to pay attention to top tube/stem length (usually shorter). Go to a local shop that has some understanding of sizing bikes for triathlons. — Jeffrey Justice Oceanside, CA Oceanside, CA

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Seems like a good trade!

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I would talk to Roo World about a 44-48 cm QR.  I have a 48 cm and it was made for me.  Their top tubes are shorter than other bikes;  my seat tube and top tube are both 48 cm.

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I would talk to Roo World about a 44-48 cm QR.  I have a 48 cm and it was made for me.  Their top tubes are shorter than other bikes;  my seat tube and top tube are both 48 cm.

There’s also a 47cm Cervelo Eyre Tri model. The P2 model starts at 50cm. Sincerely, Gerard Vroomen, Cervelo Cycles website: http://www.cervelo.com

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: I know Terry must make bicycles to fit someone of your stature. It may : already be one of your choices. Unfortunately I don’t have a number : available for them but if you do get stuck for one let me know I am sure I : can dig one up. Thanks for the suggestions.  Yes, Terry is an obvious choice and I simply have been unable to get a hold of one locally to test ride, though the shop swears up and down they’ll call me the minute they get one in.  I’ll keep my fingers crossed and keep looking around at other possibilities in the meantime. *Dana

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I’m in the market for my first ‘real’ bike (and flirting with the transition from running to triathlon, hence the purchase).  My height of just under 5′ seems to have (mercifully!) limited my options, and at the moment I’m down to only a couple of selections based on what is available locally for me to try out. Just wondering if anyone has any comments on something in the 16"/43cm or thereabouts category.  Thanks! *Dana

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Hello Dana, I know Terry must make bicycles to fit someone of your stature. It may already be one of your choices. Unfortunately I don’t have a number available for them but if you do get stuck for one let me know I am sure I can dig one up. Also Marinoni makes custom bikes and they may be able to outfit you with a custom 650c job. Its not as expensive as people are initially inclined to believe but you will require a competent bike shop. Below is Marinoni’s web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FBeauchemin/ Regardless of the bike you choose make sure whatever you order does not have any interference between your foot and the wheel when you turn and when your foot is forward on the pedals. (Toe clip wheel interference). This can happen with smaller bikes. Good luck in your hunt for a bike. Sanjay Should you need to e-mail me remove the (.xyz) from my e-mail address to get back to me.

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Question:

I was contemplating using a Camel back for hydration at Wildflower instead of bottles. How much of an effect will this have on aerodynamics, taking into account that I will not have bottles on my bike? I feel that using one of these aids dramatically in hydration. Any thoughts, or am I splitting hairs?

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I was contemplating using a Camel back for hydration at Wildflower instead of bottles. How much of an effect will this have on aerodynamics, taking into account that I will not have bottles on my bike? I feel that using one of these aids dramatically in hydration. Any thoughts, or am I splitting hairs?

I’d liken it to splitting one of Mike Pigg’s hairs!! I recently bought a Camelbak type system for mtbing and have also been using it on road rides.  Its not much more convenient than bottles, but it certainly holds more.  I would think that for a long course tri where you may be concerned with the type of drink or its concentration that a drinking system would be perfect.   However, for a hilly course (isn’t Wildflower?) you may not want the extra weight sloshing around on your back while you’re climbing out of the saddle. — Stacy J. Hills

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Hey buddy, I just did a critique on a study conducted by some researchers on a time trial effort while wearing a Camelbak, and the conclusion was that wearing one significantly reduced HR, Perceived Exertion, rectal temperature (argh!!! I’d hate to be those poor guys)…it short, it meant that wearing one (the IceBak version which is not insulated on the side that lays against the skin) can signifcantly reduce your core temperature and HR while at the same exertion level.  It’s not a huge study, but it didn’t have any flaws in it that would significantly affect the results. It’s in Cycling Science’s Fall 1995 issue if you’re interested. See ya at Wildflower. Speed is Life, Dave Chen Captain Arizona State University Triathlon Team www.asu.edu/studentprgms/org/sd_triath – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was contemplating using a Camel back for hydration at Wildflower instead of bottles. How much of an effect will this have on aerodynamics, taking into account that I will not have bottles on my bike? I feel that using one of these aids dramatically in hydration. Any thoughts, or am I splitting hairs?

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I’ve preridden the Wildflower course twice, both times with my Camelbak MULE. It’s the only way to go on a long, hot, hilly course like Wildflower.

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Question:

I just thought I’d add some prattle to the group. IMH Coverage:         I enjoyed the coverage very much and thought NBC did a fine job.  However, I seem to be in the minority in that I really enjoy the ‘up close and personal’ stories.  I find that I can really get into the race and cheer for someone if I know something about where they came from and the experiences that led them to do the event.  Thus, I would have enjoyed seeing more of these stories, especially about the amateur athletes.  I also enjot these stories during the Olympic coverage unlike most people who have posted.  I do, however, feel that mother-daughter thing got a bit hokey with all of the dramatic poses.  The coverage served to get me even more psyched for IMC next year:) Muscle Specific Training:         I played full-court basketball for the first time in almost a year last Thursday and woke up the next morning feeling as if my muscles were beaten with a hammer during the night.  I am in pretty good shape from swimming, biking , and running but these rarely utilized muscles let me know in a very unpleasant manner that I have been neglecting them.  Funny thing is that a guy who does nothing but play recreational volleyball 2X a week decided to play as well and although it had been years since he had played basketball he said he felt slightly sore but nothing         that bad.  Now, I would like to think that he just didn’t play as hard as me but that probably isn’t true. Question – Are some people more prone to muscle soreness due to genetics than other people as this always happens to me worse than most people when I play a sport I haven’t played in awhile? Could it be that people with naturally inflexible tight muscles (like me!!!) are more prone to post-exercise muscle soreness? Anyone have any advice, opinions, or similar experiences? Kristen

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just thought I’d add some prattle to the group. Muscle Specific Training:    I played full-court basketball for the first time in almost a year last Thursday and woke up the next morning feeling as if my muscles were beaten with a hammer during the night.  I am in pretty good shape from swimming, biking , and running but these rarely utilized muscles let me know in a very unpleasant manner that I have been neglecting them.  Funny thing is that a guy who does nothing but play recreational volleyball 2X a week decided to play as well and although it had been years since he had played basketball he said he felt slightly sore but nothing       that bad.  Now, I would like to think that he just didn’t play as hard as me but that probably isn’t true. Question – Are some people more prone to muscle soreness due to genetics than other people as this always happens to me worse than most people when I play a sport I haven’t played in awhile? Could it be that people with naturally inflexible tight muscles (like me!!!) are more prone to post-exercise muscle soreness? Anyone have any advice, opinions, or similar experiences? Kristen

Kristen,   I used to supplement my training by playing beach volleyball two to three times a week. Believe me, running around in the sand for three or four hours a week is a great workout — probably similar to a hard game of basketball.  I’ve since moved to a place where I am unable to play  beach volleyball year round and have experienced exactly the situation you described. I think it just has a lot to do with the different physical requirements of the sports; starting, stopping, twisting, jumping and banging into things or people. I had become so used to being able to transition from one sport to another (and go hard) without any pain that I was really surprised when after a recent visit back home and lot’s of volleyball I could barely get out of bed the next morning. I’ve never been the most limber person in the world (even when I was a gymnast)and have decided that it’s time to start playing recreational sports again to more effectively cross train — besides, I just moved to Detroit (aaagh!) and the roadies that I train with here haven’t accepted me as one of their own yet and delight in taking me out about forty miles, getting me lost and then dropping me. Maybe I’ll meet some normal people. Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Muscle Specific Training:    I played full-court basketball for the first time in almost a year last Thursday and woke up the next morning feeling as if my muscles were beaten with a hammer during the night.  I am in pretty good shape from swimming, biking , and running but these rarely utilized muscles let me know in a very unpleasant manner that I have been neglecting them.  Funny thing is that a guy who does nothing but play recreational volleyball 2X a week decided to play as well and although it had been years since he had played basketball he said he felt slightly sore but nothing         that bad.  Now, I would like to think that he just didn’t play as hard as me but that probably isn’t true. Question – Are some people more prone to muscle soreness due to genetics than other people as this always happens to me worse than most people when I play a sport I haven’t played in awhile? Could it be that people with naturally inflexible tight muscles (like me!!!) are more prone to post-exercise muscle soreness? Anyone have any advice, opinions, or similar experiences? Kristen

I would say that his 2x a week volleyball uses the same muscles as basketball (at least more so than triathlon sports).  Triathlon training is single plane training and never really involves those lateral movement muscles.  Volleyball has a great deal of lateral movement and also the jumping involved. I played on a faculty team a while back and was sore and even a little tired even in the midst of marathon training.   Sam Callan I will be graduated soon and looking for a job.  Please hire me!!! Question plaguing me as I was grocery shopping: What was the greatest thing before sliced bread?

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Question:

RELEASE IV ANOTHER OPEN LETTER TO MARK SISSON FROM USA TRIATHLON … Please, anyone who thinks USA Triathlon did wrong for the sport is this country by retiring Mark let us know.  So far, all the responses support USA Triathlon’s action.  USA Triathlon wants your expression of support because otherwise Mark Sisson and Les McDonald will tell their followers that they, Les and Mark, are right.  We want to be able to squelch that view when and if it gets voiced. So do let us know what you think.  

I fully support USA Triathlon’s actions. Thanks a lot.

Thank you for supporting the sport of Triathlon and the overwhelming majority of its athletes.  It is too bad that the ITU would not do so on their own.                                 — John Walker — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

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I appreciate USAT taking the time and effort to inform RST about these issues. I guess I would like to know who the board members of USAT are? Just to fill the picture of who runs the show. Jim Mewkill<

The Board of Directors of USA Triathlon:

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I appreciate USAT taking the time and effort to inform RST about these issues. I guess I would like to know who the board members of USAT are? Just to fill the picture of who runs the show. Maybe Mark Sisson would be kind enough to post the same information about ITU, before any big changes occur obviously. Jim Mewkill

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RELEASE IV ANOTHER OPEN LETTER TO MARK SISSON FROM USA TRIATHLON (This is the fourth in a series of USA Triathlon replies to Mark Sisson’s "This is a long one" posting.)

    *  SNIP   * Please, anyone who thinks USA Triathlon did wrong for the sport is this country by retiring Mark let us know.  So far, all the responses support USA Triathlon’s action.  USA Triathlon wants your expression of support because otherwise Mark Sisson and Les McDonald will tell their followers that they, Les and Mark, are right.  We want to be able to squelch that view when and if it gets voiced. So do let us know what you think.  Thanks a lot. THE NEXT RELEASE V WILL BE SENT FOR POSTING ON MAY 31, 1996. –  USA TRIATHLON BOARD OF DIRECTORS

This information (ALL the parts that have been posted thus far, as well as what is yet to come) is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT and VALUABLE.  Is there any way to share it with triathletes outside of RST?  Would any of the tri-mags dare to touch it?   Or perhaps it can be published in Triathlon Times? I cannot begin to describe how valuable it would be to get this infomration out to the larger triathlon community.  RST is indeed a significant forum, but we are only a small percentage of the triathlon community at large. How can we make sure that others have the opportunity to read this? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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RELEASE IV ANOTHER OPEN LETTER TO MARK SISSON FROM USA TRIATHLON MARK SISSON DOESN’T UNDERSTAND HOW TRIATHLON SHOULD BE MANAGED (This is the fourth in a series of USA Triathlon replies to Mark Sisson’s "This is a long one" posting.) This posting takes issue with Mark’s statements in his lengthy posting         a)  about drafting, and         b)  presents the circumstances surrounding Mark Sisson’s request that               the USA Triathlon Board of Directors Meeting in San Diego last               February renominate him for ITU Treasurer. This posting also calls into question how Mark Sisson and the man he works for, Les McDonald, approach the way this sport should be governed. Drafting The drafting issue has been THE big topic for more than a year now.  This posting is not written to either support or oppose the newly adopted ITU drafting-legal rule. (But you should know that USA Triathlon’s Board of Directors favors drafting-illegal.)  Rather it is written to underscore how Mark Sisson views the sport’s governance process.  And just so everyone’s on the same page in regard to this important issue, let’s take a moment to review how we got to where we are atdrafting-illegal was written into the ITU Competition Rules.  A few years ago, the ITU began to put out releases announcing the need for triathlon’s "modernization" which is an ITU code word that means "drafting-legal."  The reasons given for the need for modernization were usually two-fold: (i) the IOC requested modernization and (ii) modernization made for better TV.  These two reasons were sometimes coupled with a threat from Les McDonald, in which he would say that if the sport doesn’t modernize then it would be thrown out of the Olympics either as early as the 2000 Sydney Olympics, and if by chance triathlon managed to survive Sydney, then certainly by the the time the 2004 Olympics rolled around. At the 1995 ITU Cancun Congress, a rule was adopted by which drafting-legal replaced drafting- illegal for certain ITU events, particularly the ITU World Cup and the ITU World Championship race.  Even with an open vote (McDonald wouldn’t let a secret vote take place in violation of Roberts Rules of Order) there was opposition to the proposed drafting-legal rule.  In the months before the rule change, a great uproar could be heard throughout the sport opposing the change. Sampling polls conducted by USA Triathlon indicated a better than 90% opposition to the drafting- legal concept among the sport’s athletes. USA Triathlon has begun to do some research into whether the IOC ever requested "modernization" and whether drafting-legal makes for better television.  So far we have learned that the IOC doesn’t even know there is a drafting issue in the sport, much less which is better, drafting-legal or drafting-illegal.  We have even talked to certain commercial and television agents and we were told that they couldn’t care less about drafting-legal, drafting-illegal. USA Triathlon believes that if it were really necessary to take the drafting-legal route, then the people of this sport very much needed to be involved in the debate and in the education process. In that way the sport would remain unified and harmonious.  On the contrary, USA Triathlon believes the drafting-illegal route to be what the sport needs.  For this reason, USA Triathlon believes that a great wrong to the sport and its people has been committed by the ITU.  In short, if Steve Locke were running the ITU, then the polls would have been listened to, and there would be no rush to do something which is so strongly opposed.  USA Triathlon suggests that the reason for the rush is connected to Les McDonald’s desire to adopt the drafting-legal rule more than five years before Sydney since the IOC Charter seems to prohibit rule changes after that. Now what does Mark Sisson say in "This is a long one" posting?  Mark asks "why all this RST age-group angst about a small number of events that only involve elites…to think that the ITU should hold an age-group referendum, as Dave Yates suggested, is absurdity at its highest level." The poll which USA Triathlon wants is a poll of all athletes, age-group and elite.  USA Triathlon believes that such a poll would show that draft-legal is opposed by both age-group and elite athletes.  Steve Locke is committed to that poll when he becomes the ITU president.  As far as Dave Yates is concerned, he challenged the ITU to take a poll.  When he issued the challenge, the ITU had banned athletes from competing in Mr. Yate’s Hawaiian Ironman because it was a world championship.  Mr. Yates said that if the ITU would agree to the poll and drafting-legal was approved by those questioned, he, Dave, would voluntarily change the name of his Hawaii world championship race so that it would no longer be called a "world-championship" and the fight between Ironman and the ITU would be over and done with.  The upshot of all these back and forth arguments was that the ITU refused to accept the challenge.  Eventually, and for other reasons, the ITU some time later removed the ban against athletes competing in Yates’ "Ironman Triathlon World Championship."  But the ITU still sticks to its guns about drafting-legal. USA Triathlon believes the ITU’s refusal to listen to what the sport really thinks about drafting coupled with its refusal to care what the sport thinks on the issue is plain wrong.  USA Triathlon believes that the ITU’s advancing what seems to be false reasons for the need for a drafting-legal rule is unconscionable.  The way the drafting issue has been handled is sufficient reason to replace Les McDonald as the ITU President.  USA Triathlon has already retired Mark Sisson. What Really Happened At The USA Triathlon San Diego Board Meeting Mark Sisson came to the USA Triathlon San Diego Board meeting in February 1996 to obtain a renomination from USA Triathlon so that he could be a candidate for the ITU Treasurer.  If he got the renomination Mark said (i) he was willing to get USA Triathlon a list of all the ITU member federation’s names, addresses, phone numbers, fax numbers and president’s names, (ii) he was willing to see what could be done about the ITU rule making athletes who competed in the Ironman Triathlon World Championship ineligible and he said (iii) he would seek to change the method by which elite teams were to be chosen for the ITU Triathlon World Championship. At the time, the USA Triathlon Board pointed out that it had already been promised the ITU membership list with no strings attached.  USA Triathlon further felt that as far as Ironman was concerned, it was just plain wrong to ban athletes who competed in the Ironman Triathlon World Championship or any other self-declared world championship.  To make the point clearer, USA Triathlon thinks that the ITU has a superior right to use the words "world-championship" but in resolving problems growing out of a race’s use of those words.  The ITU should deal directly with the race and leave the athletes out of the quarrel. USA Triathlon is informed by those who would be in a position to know that the change in the Ironman rule came about without the help of Mark Sisson.  (Sorry, but we can’t be more specific than that because we gave our word to protect our sources.)  As far as the ITU membership list, it was finally sent by Mark Sisson along with conditions as to its use which were not in keeping with the ITU resolution directing that USA Triathlon receive the list in the first place.  So Mark actually narrowed the right of USA Triathlon and did us no favor by so doing. When Mark says that the USA Triathlon Board "thinks small" he’s wrong. When Mark wanted a renomination from USA Triathlon in exchange for helping USA Triathlon get what it was entitled to, USA Triathlon said no deal.  In our view that wasn’t "small thinking," no matter what Mark says. When Mark told the USA Triathlon Board that it should give him the renomination because otherwise USA Triathlon would end up with someone worse than he, Mark Sisson, we thought "big" and said thanks but no thanks.  The USA Triathlon Board ended up getting that which it knew it had a right to get from the ITU.  Ironman got what it was entitled to get from the ITU.  And Mark Sisson was courteously denied the renomination for the ITU Treasurer he had come to get. Please, anyone who thinks USA Triathlon did wrong for the sport is this country by retiring Mark let us know.  So far, all the responses support USA Triathlon’s action.  USA Triathlon wants your expression of support because otherwise Mark Sisson and Les McDonald will tell their followers that they, Les and Mark, are right.  We want to be able to squelch that view when and if it gets voiced. So do let us know what you think.  Thanks a lot. THE NEXT RELEASE V WILL BE SENT FOR POSTING ON MAY 31, 1996. –  USA TRIATHLON BOARD OF DIRECTORS

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