Question:

I’m contemplating a potential move to St Paul.  Although it is a relatively minor consideration in my calculus of whether or not to accept the job, I’m concerned about what the local tri scene is like; re the number, type, and quality of local races, triathlon oriented shops, clubs, etc.  I’m also curious about how locals handle winter bike training (how low can you go, temperature wise?), especially when trying to prepare for an early season long course race.   I’m a native midwesterner, but I’ve lived in the south for the last 12 years and not sure how easy it will be reacclimate when it comes to winter training.

Check out "www.mntriclub.com" for the answers to many of your questions. In short, the Twin Cities are a great place to be for triathletes. -Harold

Response:

There are probably a couple local races a month.  They fill up fast; one has to plan ahead and register at least a month in advance for some.  There also are some races that are not local but within 2-4 hours driving distance in Duluth and Grand Rapids.   Most races are sprint or international distance. This year there was one half-Ironman distance race, which was yesterday. Triathlon oriented shops – situation isn’t great, there really is only one and it’s way out in the western suburbs (not convenient for me given that I live northeast).  There are many good bike shops & running stores, so the only time I’ve had to make the trip to that store was when I decided to buy a wetsuit recently. Winter bike training  :-p  I personally have trouble keeping my feet warm in any temperatures below 35-40 degrees…and am not real fond of riding my bike indoors on the trainer.  So I switch over to cross country skiing during the winter.  I feel that mentally, it’s good to take a break anyway. For the last three years I’ve done a spring trip to Texas in mid-March to go bike riding.  This year I had ridden a grand total of 13 miles outdoors before the trip, yet I managed to ride 75 miles the first day (granted, not at a very fast pace).  This advice probably doesn’t help you out if you want to do an early season long course race.  There ARE some hardy souls who ride their bikes all winter long, using mountain bikes when the roads and temperatures are at their worst.

Response:

Hi everyone; I’m contemplating a potential move to St Paul.  Although it is a relatively minor consideration in my calculus of whether or not to accept the job, I’m concerned about what the local tri scene is like; re the number, type, and quality of local races, triathlon oriented shops, clubs, etc.  I’m also curious about how locals handle winter bike training (how low can you go, temperature wise?), especially when trying to prepare for an early season long course race.   I’m a native midwesterner, but I’ve lived in the south for the last 12 years and not sure how easy it will be reacclimate when it comes to winter training. Marty

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Question:

I noticed that Michellie Jones still rides a Felt frame. Is Felt still in business… or is he making them just for her??? I haven’t seen any-one else riding one. Thanks for any info…

Response:

I believe Felt bikes was purhased by a German/Euro group and has exanded its opeations again but more as a family type bike company. http://www.felt.de LW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that Michellie Jones still rides a Felt frame. Is Felt still in business… or is he making them just for her??? I haven’t seen any-one else riding one. Thanks for any info…

Response:

writes: I noticed that Michellie Jones still rides a Felt frame. Is Felt still in business… or is he making them just for her??? I haven’t seen any-one else riding one. Thanks for any info… In the most rescent issue of Triathlete there was mention of Felt making

frames again.  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Very much in business.  Huge over in Germany and beginning to consider the US market again.  He has his site up at feltbikes.com I believe. Steve’s Multisport – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I noticed that Michellie Jones still rides a Felt frame. Is Felt still in business… or is he making them just for her??? I haven’t seen any-one else riding one. Thanks for any info…

Response:

Felt will introduce 4 new Triathlon models in 2001 2 650c models and 2 700c models. you can check them out at www.felt.de Regards. Pete Coulson

Response:

Question:

Well, certified races may indeed be certified for total distance (if the race you refer to was certified), but they don’t have to be certified for waypoints, say the 1K mark in a 5K race.  3:22 for the first K is about 16:50 5K pace.  Possibly you were going this fast in the first K, but I doubt it.  More likely, the first K mark was not in the correct point.  Many races I have run have been very slipshod on at least one or more of the waypoints.  Some, of course, are very accurate, and indeed good race organizers understand the necessity of this and take pride in it. The idea of running a car over the first 1/4 or 1/2 mile is ridiculuous — the error will be too large to give you any valid feedback on pace.  In the end, because you can’t necessarily trust the first K or mile mark, you have to rely on you speedwork training to get the proper start pace. In elite events, usually the first waypoints are quite accurate.  But wasn’t there a recent women’s national (or international) elite triathlon event where the actual distance of the course was 8K when it was supposed to be 10K?

Response:

Well, certified races may indeed be certified for total distance (if the race you refer to was certified), but they don’t have to be certified for waypoints, say the 1K mark in a 5K race.  3:22 for the first K is about 16:50 5K pace.  Possibly you were going this fast in the first K, but I doubt it.

I don’t think this is a dubious figure. In my last 5K I ran 18:55 and the first K in 3:30 (granted, it’s a long 8 secs slower than his) and the second in 3:36. In the first K I was well well within comfortable pace for that distance. So it seems to me that his time is feasible but with a heavy cost at the end. (Such fast starts make me wonder how well I would have done by holding my horses better and running 3,4, or 5 secs under my planned 3:48 pace for the whole thing… In the end my pace turned out to be just 1 sec faster than my PR of 19-flat–ie, 3:47) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More likely, the first K mark was not in the correct point.  Many races I have run have been very slipshod on at least one or more of the waypoints.  Some, of course, are very accurate, and indeed good race organizers understand the necessity of this and take pride in it. The idea of running a car over the first 1/4 or 1/2 mile is ridiculuous — the error will be too large to give you any valid feedback on pace.  In the end, because you can’t necessarily trust the first K or mile mark, you have to rely on you speedwork training to get the proper start pace. In elite events, usually the first waypoints are quite accurate.  But wasn’t there a recent women’s national (or international) elite triathlon event where the actual distance of the course was 8K when it was supposed to be 10K?

Response:

What to do – you just need to learn from your mistakes and try to correct them the next time!  Starting too fast will cause trouble at the end of a race.

I totally agree – but I_keep_doing_it. I *think* I’m running on pace, and I get the bad news at the 1k split. If only races provided a 200m split right at the start, I’d be better of!! I think I’ve run enough races by now that I should have a better handle on this. It’s quite deceiving for me. I simply feel *too good* at the start of every race.  But you also sound like you expect to set a new PR every race, maybe this race just happened to be on a day that was not one of your peak days! CW

True enough…. but I have been close to a sub-19 5k for 2 months. I have ran a 19:16, 19:15, and 19:13 in the past 5 weeks. The first two were in training, and the last (my PR) was the first 5k of a 10k race two weeks ago. So, I felt confident (and still do) that a sub-19 is on the horizon for me if I work hard, and I look at every 5k race I do these days as a chance to do it. About the "peak days" thing, well – I could have ran a sub-19 if I paced myself correctly. That’s all I can say. It wasn’t an "off day" issue, it was a gun jumping issue for sure. I just have to learn!! Sorry ’bout being so long winded. David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

Response:

Well, certified races may indeed be certified for total distance (if the race you refer to was certified), but they don’t have to be certified for waypoints, say the 1K mark in a 5K race.  3:22 for the first K is about 16:50 5K pace.  Possibly you were going this fast in the first K, but I doubt it.

Unfortunately, I do this all the time – sometimes on a grand scale, such as my recent 1:36 first half of a 3:42 marathon. I think my first few km’s in that were in the 4:15 range, yet I was aiming for 5:00/km’s. EVERY race I enter is the same. I seem to be afraid of being too slow or something. I believe the 3:22. The guy who eventually won (15:05) was quite close to me at the 1k split. Of course, at the time I wasn’t aware that he was running 3:01/km. I just knew he was the leader. David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

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I agree that it’s very easy to go out way too fast, but you really have to learn from your mistakes. A 3:22 first kilometer is on pace for a 16:50, which is ridiculous. If you can still manage a 19:30 after going out that fast you obviously have a lot of potential. It’s very easy to give in to the excitement and adrenaline at the starting line, but you have to learn how to run your own race, and not follow someone out much faster than would do you any good. You need to have total confidence in your pace, and not worry about anyone around you. It might feel abnormally slow going out at target pace, but you’ll find that your times will improve significantly if you do so. My PR is 18:10 for the 5k, and I’ve never taken the first mile out faster than 5:45. Patience really pays off.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What to do – you just need to learn from your mistakes and try to correct them the next time!  Starting too fast will cause trouble at the end of a race. I totally agree – but I_keep_doing_it. I *think* I’m running on pace, and I get the bad news at the 1k split. If only races provided a 200m split right at the start, I’d be better of!! I think I’ve run enough races by now that I should have a better handle on this. It’s quite deceiving for me. I simply feel *too good* at the start of every race.  But you also sound like you expect to set a new PR every race, maybe this race just happened to be on a day that was not one of your peak days! CW True enough…. but I have been close to a sub-19 5k for 2 months. I have ran a 19:16, 19:15, and 19:13 in the past 5 weeks. The first two were in training, and the last (my PR) was the first 5k of a 10k race two weeks ago. So, I felt confident (and still do) that a sub-19 is on the horizon for me if I work hard, and I look at every 5k race I do these days as a chance to do it. About the "peak days" thing, well – I could have ran a sub-19 if I paced myself correctly. That’s all I can say. It wasn’t an "off day" issue, it was a gun jumping issue for sure. I just have to learn!! Sorry ’bout being so long winded. David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

Response:

—snip— The guy who eventually won (15:05) was quite close to me at the 1k split. Of course, at the time I wasn’t aware that he was running 3:01/km. I just knew he was the leader.

Ha David, There you have it.  You do the same thing I do.  You look at the people in front of you at the start and forget about your own pace for a while.  At least that’s what happens to me. BTW  I got edged out by a 12 year old girl in yesterday’s 5k, but instead of over a minute it was less then 15 seconds.  She was pretty far ahead at the turn around, but not that far ahead at the end.  I did manage to pass a lot of other people on the final hill that had been in front of me since before the 1 mile marker.  If I’d run a 22:19 like I did on Saturday, I would have beat the 12 year old.  I’m getting closer to them and the year is not over yet.  ;-) Roger

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I ram a 5k race today, aiming for a sub-19. My PR was 19:13. I ended up running a 19:31. I ran the first km in 3:22, although I planned to run no faster than 3:45/km at any time during the race. Obviously that’s what burned me in the end. It’s funny, I can run a bang-on 4:00km, or a 3:50, or whatever, in *practice*. I have great pacing skills in non-race situations. I DO practice various paces, and feel I know them….. and then this happens. What to do? I have another 5k race in 2 weeks – I’d like to "redeem" myself. David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

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I can give you several things: (1)  I’ve had very good luck with the tapering stategy that Seb Coe used at the 1984 Olympics, which can be found on p.376 of "Better Training For Distance Runners."  The idea is to do your last hard workout 5-10 days before a major race, with the remaining workouts be run at race tempo pace with relaxed recovery.  For, me, running a bit over 4:00 for 1500, the normal workout is 4 X 300 in 48 with 3 minutes rest.  You would do, say, 400s at exactly 91 seconds for a 19:00 5K. (2)  Walk (or drive) the course before the race.  Find landmarks for 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile points, and hit those landmarks in your race.  This is very common for elites. (3)  Warmup properly.  Do the same warmup that you would do for track intervals. (4)  Do some tactical training.  For me, 1500s are NOT raced at an even pace. So, I have a 5 X 1000 workout, where the first 2 X 1000 are run with the first lap being run very fast (faster than race pace) and the rest of the rep is being spent just holding on; The last 2 X 1000 are run opposite (very sharp negative splits). Lyndon "Speed kills … it kills anyone who doesn’t have it!" -Brooks Johnson

Response:

What to do – you just need to learn from your mistakes and try to correct them the next time!  Starting too fast will cause trouble at the end of a race.  But you also sound like you expect to set a new PR every race, maybe this race just happened to be on a day that was not one of your peak days! CW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ram a 5k race today, aiming for a sub-19. My PR was 19:13. I ended up running a 19:31. I ran the first km in 3:22, although I planned to run no faster than 3:45/km at any time during the race. Obviously that’s what burned me in the end. It’s funny, I can run a bang-on 4:00km, or a 3:50, or whatever, in *practice*. I have great pacing skills in non-race situations. I DO practice various paces, and feel I know them….. and then this happens. What to do? I have another 5k race in 2 weeks – I’d like to "redeem" myself. David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

Response:

I ram a 5k race today, aiming for a sub-19. My PR was 19:13. I ended up running a 19:31. I ran the first km in 3:22, although I planned to run no faster than 3:45/km at any time during the race. Obviously that’s what burned me in the end.

Probably, but who knows.  I hardly ever run even splits and when I try I end up running slower. It’s funny, I can run a bang-on 4:00km, or a 3:50, or whatever, in *practice*. I have great pacing skills in non-race situations. I DO practice various paces, and feel I know them….. and then this happens. What to do? I have another 5k race in 2 weeks – I’d like to "redeem" myself.

If you want to run more even you’ve got to force yourself to run so slowly that it "feels" like you’re jogging in the beginning of the race.  Not literally jogging of course, but easy.  Racing is much different from training as you have already discovered.  Adrenaline and competition makes running faster much easier than it otherwise would be and makes that first couple of K feel like nothing.  In a race situation run easier than your sense of pace in the beginning and faster towards the end – this should result in an approximately even pace. -jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

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Question:

Is there still a UP tri series? I lived in Marinette in 95 and did 3 of the 5 races.  They where great races.  Since it looks like I may be moving back to Marinette in Jan (ugh – moving from New Orleans to WI in Jan – now there’s a "chilling" thought), I looking for a point of contact, email address, etc. Thanks, Jim

Response:

Yes they still do have the series.  As far as a contact, I am not quit sure on whom to contact. Try to get a hold of a copy of Mid East Triathlete. It covers the MI, OH, IN, IL area.   It has results and a calender among other things. Maybe even a chamber of commerce from a city that has held a race, might be a good place to start. Like…Copper Harbor.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve not done Peterborough, but I have talked to a lot of people who have.  The problem with this race:  awful water.  Apparently the swim is in a river of sorts, with lots of boats, ergo lots of boat fuel. On the other hand, the bike course is supposed to be quite good. You might consider doing the Collingwood 1/2 IM, which is on July 18, and is part of the same series as the Midland Tri.  The water there is a little chilly and often rough, but generally cleaner than the water in Peterborough. Raymond Hi! I want to do the Peterborough 1/2 IM for my third triathlon. Has anyone done this race before? Actually, I think this is the first year for the 1/2 IM distance… but…  Would anyone be able to comment on it? I’m especially interested in… what the course is like. Regards, Kevin Mitchell

The race site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/4594/. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site.

Response:

Raymond: Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. I was considering the Collingwood 1/2 IM… and even preferred it. However, my 4 year-old daughter is going to be the flower-girl at a wedding here in Toronto the day before Collingwood. We discussed it and decided it was too much to drag her up to Collingwood the next morning. Yup, even us triathletes have to do our part to maintain a supportive training environment. So, I’m stuck with Peterborough… but at least I know what to expect! Thanks, Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve not done Peterborough, but I have talked to a lot of people who have.  The problem with this race:  awful water.  Apparently the swim is in a river of sorts, with lots of boats, ergo lots of boat fuel. On the other hand, the bike course is supposed to be quite good. You might consider doing the Collingwood 1/2 IM, which is on July 18, and is part of the same series as the Midland Tri.  The water there is a little chilly and often rough, but generally cleaner than the water in Peterborough. Raymond Hi! I want to do the Peterborough 1/2 IM for my third triathlon. Has anyone done this race before? Actually, I think this is the first year for the 1/2 IM distance… but…  Would anyone be able to comment on it? I’m especially interested in… what the course is like. Regards, Kevin Mitchell — Raymond Vander Veen         Mortice Kern Systems, Inc. Software Developer  Waterloo, ON, Canada Remove "***" for e-mail reply.

Response:

Hi! I want to do the Peterborough 1/2 IM for my third triathlon. Has anyone done this race before? Actually, I think this is the first year for the 1/2 IM distance… but…  Would anyone be able to comment on it? I’m especially interested in… what the course is like. Regards, Kevin Mitchell

Response:

I’ve not done Peterborough, but I have talked to a lot of people who have.  The problem with this race:  awful water.  Apparently the swim is in a river of sorts, with lots of boats, ergo lots of boat fuel. On the other hand, the bike course is supposed to be quite good. You might consider doing the Collingwood 1/2 IM, which is on July 18, and is part of the same series as the Midland Tri.  The water there is a little chilly and often rough, but generally cleaner than the water in Peterborough. Raymond Hi! I want to do the Peterborough 1/2 IM for my third triathlon. Has anyone done this race before? Actually, I think this is the first year for the 1/2 IM distance… but…  Would anyone be able to comment on it? I’m especially interested in… what the course is like. Regards, Kevin Mitchell

– Raymond Vander Veen     Mortice Kern Systems, Inc. Software Developer      Waterloo, ON, Canada Remove "***" for e-mail reply.

Response:

Question:

  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group? Who is sexier, tribaby or me.  Females versus males, of course, my vote goes to tricia. Who has the best sex in r.s.t.

Funny, when the normal bounds of conversational etiquette are challenged, the tenor of the conversation goes right into the toilet. Woo hoo, ain’t I Mr. Moral. Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

Response:

How about the strategy of doing a "number 2" on the bike? That’ll keep those drafters away? —                                               |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37                              |   Fe   | IMC’97: 10:42:53                              |        |                                      "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING" ‘98 Schedule – GCT, Eagleman, BSLT, IMC

How many of us have gotten very close to doing "Number 2" on the bike? About two years ago, I almost had a very embarassing accident.  I did learn what not to eat before going on a ride!!

Response:

That’s absolutely disgusting, and beneath contempt. If I wasn’t laughing so hard, I’d flame you good. I was in Pennsylvania recently, and went for a run with a buddy. We were in the last mile of a six-mile run when suddenly my digestive system turned on me. That was a quick last mile, and it still came to the balance of a hair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about the strategy of doing a "number 2" on the bike? That’ll keep those drafters away? —                                               |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37                              |   Fe   | IMC’97: 10:42:53                              |        |                                      "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING" ‘98 Schedule – GCT, Eagleman, BSLT, IMC How many of us have gotten very close to doing "Number 2" on the bike? About two years ago, I almost had a very embarassing accident.  I did learn what not to eat before going on a ride!!

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

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Has "Why" been done? — Phil Squire Going for it in Roth 98

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Rich Davis  says…  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?    Just curious. Considering that we’ve just had Christmas/New Year – Eating Habits.   Obviously as health conscious individuals we watch what we eat. So what does everybody consume in order to keep those long training sessions going.

Wrong!  This has indeed been discussed in the past! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?

Who is sexier, tribaby or me.  Females versus males, of course, my vote goes to tricia. Who has the best sex in r.s.t.

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What do you think about during those long training sessions?? — MB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  Just curious.

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 In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  

Here’s a couple of potential topics/questions: 1. Spiritual experiences during training & racing (actually, this has probably been touched on in a few race reports) 2. Political leanings of most triathletes (i.e., conservative, liberal, etc.) 3. Has anyone ever worn their heart rate monitor during sex? 4. Types of caps/hats preferred during training and racing 5. Best/worst dream about triathlons Just a little fuel for the fire. Greg Pressler

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Snip, snip Here’s a couple of potential topics/questions: 1. Spiritual experiences during training & racing

Yes, definitely, last summer at the National Sprint Champs, here in Sweden. Out on the bike, had an "magic moment", a rain squall, backed by a ragged sky, everything was perfect, just for a few fleeting moments…… 2. Political leanings of most triathletes (i.e., conservative, liberal, etc.)

Liberal "new socialist" See Tony Blair. 3. Has anyone ever worn their heart rate monitor during sex?

Yup 4. Types of caps/hats preferred during training and racing

An old lime green Oalley cap I bought in Nice in 92. The year I got the Tri bug. 5. Best/worst dream about triathlons

I’m doing my first Ironman and I’ve forgotten all my kit, I have no food and only one water bottle, oh and my bike has steel handlebars with no rubber on the brake levers Phil Squire

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I have not seen any discussions on fun things to do with a heart rate monitor when not being used for training. "Drafting is not a four-letter word" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  Just curious.

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5. Best/worst dream about triathlons Greg Pressler

For some reason I don’t dream about triathlons. This is a close as I can get Best Moment: Canberra Sri Chinmoy Sprint Tri Last year. Getting back to the transition area after the bike leg and being the first bike back on the rack.   Checked the watch and worked out that I was well inside my PB time. For this MOP it felt real good. Worst Moment: Same race about 2km later when I realised that the damp soggy feeling down the back of my right runner wasn’t sweat but the oozing of blood from two massive blisters(one each side of my heal).  Struggled through the pain for the last 3km and missed the PB by 1 minute. I’m going back.  Its my last year in this age group and I want to go out with a PB AJ — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club http://www.moreton.qld.edu.au/itc/index.htm      

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5. Best/worst dream about triathlons

I have dreamed about transitions – I seem to always leave something in my car, and have to go get it.  Twice, I’ve ended up in a restaurant between the swim and the bike to have something to eat. Alison Keple Mill Bay, BC

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Hmmmm… we’ve discussed clothing, eating, drinking, partying, TV, shaving, toys (equipment),

I’m glad you clarified that because, as a male, and a Howard Stern fan, I assumed that by putting toys after shaving you meant something else entirely. <g

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5. Best/worst dream about triathlons I have dreamed about transitions – I seem to always leave something in my car, and have to go get it.  Twice, I’ve ended up in a restaurant between the swim and the bike to have something to eat. Alison Keple Mill Bay, BC

I keep having this re-occuring dream that I show up to Forster Ironman just as everyone is getting out of the water and that I have to make the time and then climb this really big hill just after the swim (but there isnt a really large hill on the course). I guess a lot of us triathletes get pre-race anxiety. -Glenn

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How about the strategy of doing a "number 2" on the bike? That’ll keep those drafters away? —                                               |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37                              |   Fe   | IMC’97: 10:42:53                              |        |                                      "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING" ‘98 Schedule – GCT, Eagleman, BSLT, IMC

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How about the nutritional benefit of eating cookies and drinking beer (ahem, I mean carbo loading) all winter long.  And then trying to do an IM after a mere 2 months of training. I think I have a plan for IMC! — Eric  Weiss GFT 97 – Completed IMC 98 – Hmmmmm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?   Just curious.

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?

I would like to ask if you have ever discussed with a really old man, who has never attempted nor intends to try to find the pleasure involved with the completion of a triathlon, his feelings toward triathletes? If you could find such an individual, who might just have a son involved in this crazy sport, he might just tell you that a finer group of people cannot be found in any activity. Friendly, helpful, always there with an encouraging word, this father might like to thank a lot of people for the patience and leadership that has been instilled in his son. Raising children in todays society is a frightening job. I’m sure that dad would say it scares the hell out of him every time his kid goes out to hammer a 25 mile training ride, knowing the crazy drivers are out there. I’m sure that a calm would exist when pop remembers the quality of individuals his son is with. I believe it would be similar to letting a kid loose on the internet. I would bet the old man would feel comfortable allowing that same youth to lurk and correspond with a certain group of individuals with only minimum supervision.(well as far as the kid knows– minimum supervision) If you ever decide on the above mentioned topic–Give me a shout. I might be able to find someone matching that discription. In the meantime, if you happen upon youthful triathletes in training or in competition, continue to give them a smile and a kind word. I doubt if he or she will look at you as a roll model, instead you will have to accept the simple emotions of friendship and respect. THANKS, DOUG                 (D.J. if you see this MOM made me say it);)

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employer support of our hobby…did I miss something?

        Yes you missed something… the day I decided to make a point of reading RST daily… the day I knew there were humans, not just tri-geeks here… yes, the day we discussed whether or not sex the night before a race was good or bad. A topic worthy of my young university mind. David Barclay IMC 1997: 11:55:59 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?     Just curious.

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 In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?    Just curious.

I’m fairly certain the role of diarreah in early Roman chariot races and their eventual evolution to the sport we know today as "triathlon" hasn’t been discussed.  And I’m not certain I’d care to know, for that matter Chaz

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Rich Davis  says…  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?    Just curious.

Considering that we’ve just had Christmas/New Year – Eating Habits.   Obviously as health conscious individuals we watch what we eat. So what does everybody consume in order to keep those long training sessions going. I tend to be a see-food junkie (see food and eat it)  Although I’m trying to cut down on all those fatty foods that I enjoy so much (Pizza, donuts in particular).  Breakfast is usually cereal, lunch is an apple sandwich or left overs from the night before (always leftover spagetti) and dinner is whatever I’m organised enough to cook. Anybody else — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club http://www.moreton.qld.edu.au/itc/index.htm – watch this space

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 In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  Just curious. I’m fairly certain the role of diarreah in early Roman chariot races and their eventual evolution to the sport we know today as "triathlon" hasn’t been discussed.  And I’m not certain I’d care to know, for that matter

Well… there was some discussion about the tendency for athletes to get the runs just before a race.  But that’s getting very personal David reply to: wuth – family – atlanta (remove the spaces) at att dot net

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?

Hmmmm… we’ve discussed clothing, eating, drinking, partying, TV, shaving, toys (equipment), distances, politics, drafting, sunscreen, netiquette, the Olympics, humor, race reports, USAT, ITU, traveling with a bike, why or not to do a tri, family involvement, tragic loss of friends (pets and human), the judicial system, entry fees, rules, favorite races, variations in triathlon, how to encourage others to join our sport, health, comparing RST to other newsgroups <deep breath, employer support of our hobby…did I miss something? Have we discussed the best place to live in relation to proximity to races?  How about non-tri hobbies?  I have a huge Garfield collection, about 16 years worth of a very non-tri cat David

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Question:

Definitely Runners Roost (Denver-Boulder) and the Louisville Cyclery is a close second. Steve Cavalli

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In Charlotte, NC:  Bicycles South J. Byron Walthall, Jr. Charlotte, NC, USA

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Kieths Tri Shop, Travelers Rest, SC.  KTS has a great selection of clothing, accessories and hardware.  Kieth is super to talk with will always give you valuable information.  I always make ampoint to visit his booth at any race or expo KTS will be set up. Roswell Bikes, Roswell, GA   RB has good selection of goodies for triathletes.  Cannondale/Trek.  These guys jump through hoops for you. Usually get my bike worked on (when I try and cannot get it right) and bike stuff there too, tools, accesories etc.  RB got my delailur working right after another shop tried and could not get it right. Free Flight, Marietta, GA  Only Atlanta shop (to my knowledge) to carry Q-Roo bikes. Also carry Litespeed/Trek.  Good knowledgable staff.  SIDI-T shoes.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Still grinding away on research for The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook. Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or running shop. Hearing from many people in many places would provide a "reality check"for me  on the list of 300 retail stores that I have developed, for shops in the US, Canada and beyond. So … where do triathletes like to go for their "stuff?" (Or, which sources do you mail-order from?). Thanks, Katherine Williams The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook i’ll probably be the 400th person to say so, but Nytro in Encinitas, Ca is the obvious choice. What might not be as obvious is what great guys kevin and jim are down there. helen’s cycles on lincoln blvd. in venice, ca builds some NICE road bikes if you don’t need or want tri geometry.

BOYCOTT NYTRO!  BOYCOTT NYTRO!  BOYCOTT NYTRO!  BOYCOTT NYTRO!     I think we should all boycott Nytro!  I had my wet suit lost at Iromman Canada and thus ordered a new full QR Hydro wetsuit from Nytro for an upcomming race (Alcatraz Challenge).  Before I left for the race my wetsuit was returned by IMC and thus I used my old wetsuit for Alcatraz.  This was all explained to Nytro as a possiibility when I ordered my QR and they said no problem!  We will take the return if your suit is returned from IMC.  But we I sent the suit back they said it had been altered and wouldn’t take it back.  I talked to them on the phone several times and they refused to let me return the suit.  I will never buy anything else from Nytro nor will several of my Tri friends!   BOYCOTT NYTRO!  BOYCOTT NYTRO!  BOYCOTT NYTRO!  BOYCOTT NYTRO!

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All Bicycles in Deerfield Beach, Florida (954-428-2683) for bikes and bike stuff. Richard is a really good bloke, and is very enthusiastic about his tri team. For shoes and clothing, and swim stuff,  Running Wild in Fort Lauderdale         (954-492-0077) is excellent, very knowledgeable and supports Sylvia Corbett on the ITU tour. BTW-both are anti-drafting !! Cheers Barry

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Phidippidies – Atlanta 2 stores – Jeff Galloways answer to a pure store for runners in the Atlanta area.  Excellent staff, all runners.  Really take time to assure fit. Trainers, racing flats and track shoes from Nike, Sacony, Mizuno, Asics Will watch you run and evaluate your stride for the best type of shoe. They always let you take shoes for a test drive around the block.  So if you are narowed down to 2 shoes, a test drive will let you decide which will give the best comfort. The attitude is, regardless of what brand name the shoe is they want a good fit.  For example, my trainers are Nike and my flats are Mizuno.  I orginally wanted Nike flats, after the test drive the Mizuno were far superior fit. They know how important happy feet are.

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Keith’s Triathlon.  No contest. Multi-Man

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Louisville Cyclery in Louisville Colorado takes the cake.  Located right outside of Boulder, with the best staff in the world.  I didn’t hesitate to take my Trek racing bike there (until I moved to Boston, where I discovered that the commute was rather long), and wouldn’t hesitate to take my Lotus bike, either (assuming I owned one, that is).  Their mechanical service was exceptional. Train Smart to Race Hard! -chris Chris Ramsey Boston, MA

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Still grinding away on research for The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook. Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or running shop. Hearing from many people in many places would provide a "reality check"for me  on the list of 300 retail stores that I have developed, for shops in the US, Canada and beyond. So … where do triathletes like to go for their "stuff?" (Or, which sources do you mail-order from?). Thanks, Katherine Williams The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook

i’ll probably be the 400th person to say so, but Nytro in Encinitas, Ca is the obvious choice. What might not be as obvious is what great guys kevin and jim are down there. helen’s cycles on lincoln blvd. in venice, ca builds some NICE road bikes if you don’t need or want tri geometry.

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Briarcliff Cycles.in Atlanta. 404-636-1928 ask for Scott cheers! Sam

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or running shop. In the Philadelphia area… Steve’s Multisport, Norristown: Plus: Great prices and service, very tri-focused Minus: Experiencing some growing pains Runner’s Edge, Paoli: Plus: Good selection, very personal service, place to go for race forms or to talk running Minus: Prices Performance Bike, Paoli: Plus: Great prices, good mechanics Minus: Generic bike shop, few tri-heads — "The wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." — J. Buffett

I agree with the first two.  Steve’s shop is, of course, IMO great.  Ed and wife Fran at Runner’s Edge are also terrific – knowlegable, good people who support several local running events. Can’t say anything for Performance though… -hug

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Still grinding away on research for The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook. Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or

running shop. In Miami there are not that many Tri shops but there are some decent bike shops (Mack Cycle, Bike Tech) Running Shops in Miami:  The best hands down is Foot Works in South Miami.  Tons of running experience and great shoes. So … where do triathletes like to go for their "stuff?" (Or, which

sources do you mail-order from?). Mail Order:   Bicycle Sports in Shreveport – helpful bunch of guys, ask for Dave. Steve’s Multisport – Very knowledgable Dig Me Sports out of St. Petersburg -small mail order but very attentive to your needs Hope it helps. Regards, Carlos Torres de Navarra Coral Gables, Florida

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Let me second the choice of Mission Bay.  They are great!

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In the Denver-Boulder area, I buy my shoes at Runners Roost, and my clothing at the Hind outlet store.

Hi, Chuck, I lived in Boulder for nine years (through ‘91), but the outlet store (Hind) wasn’t in operation then. Do you have a phone number for it? Would like to include them (I didn’t know of it before). Thanks, Katherine

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Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or running shop.

In the Philadelphia area… Steve’s Multisport, Norristown: Plus: Great prices and service, very tri-focused Minus: Experiencing some growing pains Runner’s Edge, Paoli: Plus: Good selection, very personal service, place to go for race forms or to talk running Minus: Prices Performance Bike, Paoli: Plus: Great prices, good mechanics Minus: Generic bike shop, few tri-heads — "The wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." — J. Buffett

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In the Denver-Boulder area, I buy my shoes at Runners Roost, and my clothing at the Hind outlet store.  I buy most of my bike stuff from either Colorado Cyclist or Excell sports for mail-order or the local Performance shops.  I also buy a lot of clothing mail order from Triathlete Zombies. Chuck Berghoefer

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Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or running shop.

On the San Francisco Peninsula: – The Runner’s High on Santa Cruz Avenue in Menlo Park.  Primarily runner oriented, but they also cater to triathletes as well.  They *seriously* know their stuff.  Excellent service, for runners from runners. – The Runner’s Factory, Los Gatos, CA.  They sponsor Holly Nybo and Lauren Alexander.  A runner’s shop with a strong triathlon bent.  Enthusiasm and excellent service.  They frequently have some pretty good prices, too. – My personal favorite bike shop is not at all tri-leaning, but the manager is extremely knowledgable and will work with me on absolutely anything I want to try.  They started stocking Scott Waimeas last year and did well with them, so they may yet begin catering to the Tri trade.  Oh, yeah, the shop is Garner’s Pro Bike Shop in Redwood City.  The manager’s name is Paul.  Tell ‘im Tricia sent you and he’ll treat you like royalty!  (He would anyway; he’s a great guy and a fantastic salesman—-very knowledgable and straightforward, never pushy). – Don’t know much about it from personal experience (have been there only once, but received a good impression), but I understand Saratoga Cyclery in Saratoga, CA is reputed to be an excellent tri-focused bike shop.  If I ever break down and decide I want to get a steep-angled, 650c wheeled tri-machine, this is probably where I’ll go to test-ride the widest possible variety of sleek TriBikes. Just my $.02, for what it’s worth…. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Still grinding away on research for The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook. Would like to know of everyone’s favorite, local triathlon, bike or running shop. Hearing from many people in many places would provide a "reality check"for me  on the list of 300 retail stores that I have developed, for shops in the US, Canada and beyond. So … where do triathletes like to go for their "stuff?" (Or, which sources do you mail-order from?). Thanks, Katherine Williams The 1997 Triathlon Sourcebook

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Mail order:  I really like Colorado Cyclist (though its not cheap) for bike and some tri stuff and have found Road Runner Sports to be terrific for running-related stuff. –Tri-Hard

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Can’t forget Mission Bay here in suburban Chicago.  They’ve got a great in stock selection if you’re lucky enough to be close to the store and they’ll talk to you all day with advice with no pressure to buy. Scott For you catalog types, they also do mail order.

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Question:

Rolf, Your build up looks okay and only you know what your body can handle.  But a word of advice – make sure that your weekly milage does not change dramaticaly from week to week.  This can lead to various overtraining injuries.   Also, if your body takes a long time to recover from the long runs, TRY SLOWING DOWN.  Almost everyone does these long runs too fast.  You should also make sure you keep well hydrated and eat plenty of carbs after the run.  Another good idea is to NOT run on the road the day after the long runs.  Try pool running, swimming, biking or anyhting that doesn’t pound on your legs. Finally, try to do some runs on similar terrain as your race if possible. I your race is somewhere like San Fran or Pittsburgh, I would STRONGLY suggest doing hill work. just my $.02 Eric See the Cow Swim.      See the Cow Bike.           See the Cow Run.

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Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan?  I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience.  My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range).

Though not specific to your question, Lauren and I wrote an article "Marathon Training for Triathletes" for Chicago’s Amateur Athlete.  It’s on their web page at http://www.runningnetwork.com/ChicagoAA/tips/15.html We also (along with others) have other articles under http://www.runningnetwork.com/ChicagoAA/tips including the laugher "Tri-ing Harder" Todd Jensen

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The other two important runs are a longish run at marathon race pace (or a little faster)  8-10 miles and finally speedwork on the track.

Almost any top running coach will tell you that the long run should be run SLOWER than marathon race pace. The reasoning is that if you run all your long runs at marathon race pace, you’ll end up exhausted, wasted, trashed, and not recovered from one weekend’s long run to the next. For example, in Runner’s World this month, they had a long article from a famous coach at SUNY-Cortland and this was his recommendation as well. Cathy Corning

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  The key, IMHO, is the long run.  You should be doing one long run a week, building up to 21-22 miles.  Start at a short distance and build up, adding one mile a week.  Run this at 45-60 seconds below your goal

While I am very appreciative of the advice, I do not think I can recover from weekly 21-22 mile runs.   It takes me a *minimum* of two weeks, usually closer to 3 weeks for that distance.  I do not mean this as a criticism of the advice.  Rather, a clarification of a personal limitation.  I have tried more aggressive mileage with overtraining and injuries the result.   I agree.  The weekly long run is the key.  What works for me is a three week cycle, two up and one down.  Looks something like this: week 1      10 mi week 2      12 mi week 3      8 mi week 4      12 mi week 5      14 mi week 6      10 mi etc

This sounds like a more reasonable approach.  However, this places two long runs a week apart, a bit much for my slow recovery.   I will probably do week -6 to 0 (base) 30-60 mi/week week 1  13 week 2   7 week 3  15 week 4   8 week 5  17 week 6   9 week 7  12 week 8  19 week 9   7 week 10  7 week 11 21 week 12 etc. More rest as the runs get longer… -Rolf — Some call me Rolf…                             I tri…                                                  Looking to 1997…  IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47    IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35        IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

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Arands) writes: I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!).  

Rolf: I’m running a marathon on Saturday (Philadelphia) the 24th and have tried to follow a progressive mileage buildup program from a 20 mile a week base (in August from Triathlon season) up to 50 miles a week, with one long run (10+miles) a week building each week to a long run of up to  20 miles. Add 10% per week to your long run starting at 10.  The other two important runs are a longish run at marathon race pace (or a little faster)  8-10 miles and finally speedwork on the track.  I try to bike and swim at least once a week too. I consider the long run the most important run, the race pace run the second most important and the speedwork, 3rd.  Other runs are mostly for pleasure. I do suggest you check out Team Oregon’s web page which has GREAT advice on how to train.  They also have a Pace Wizard which is fun for predicting what your marathon potential is based on a 10K time.  Check them out at: http://www.teamoregon.com/~teamore/ Tucker Newberry

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I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997 Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan?  I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience.  My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range).   The key, IMHO, is the long run.  You should be doing one long run a week, building up to 21-22 miles.  Start at a short distance and build up, adding one mile a week.  Run this at 45-60 seconds below your goal

I agree.  The weekly long run is the key.  What works for me is a three week cycle, two up and one down.  Looks something like this: week 1  10 mi week 2  12 mi week 3  8 mi week 4  12 mi week 5  14 mi week 6  10 mi etc You get the idea.  I also agree with running at less than race pace, but I also try to alternate my pace while running.  For example, for a 16 mi run, try 4 mi at 9:30 pace, 10 mi at goal pace, and 2 mi back at 9:30 pace. You also might try intervals, even during your base workup.  Intervals build your cardio-vascular endurance and help develop leg strength which you will need, particularly past mile 20. Keep with the hill repeats.  Hills increase runniing efficiency which will also carry you past mile 20. Good luck! Hope to see both of you in Penticton!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arands) I’m running a marathon on Saturday (Philadelphia) the 24th and have tried to follow a progressive mileage buildup program from a 20 mile a week base (in August from Triathlon season) up to 50 miles a week, with one long run (10+miles) a week building each week to a long run of up to  20 miles. Add 10% per week to your long run starting at 10.  The other two important runs are a longish run at marathon race pace (or a little faster)  8-10 miles and finally speedwork on the track.  I try to bike and swim at least once a week too. I consider the long run the most important run, the race pace run the second most important and the speedwork, 3rd.  Other runs are mostly for pleasure. Tucker Newberry

Classic Galloway marathon training. I concur. Chaz

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Although it was long ago, what worked for me were 3 principles. 1) Just run all the mileage you can handle 2) Start doing your shorter runs at your goal race pace. Your    legs need to be comfortable with your race pace. If race pace is    too fast for even your short runs then break them up. I’d suggest    at least a couple miles twice a week at race pace. 10 miles at    race pace should be comfortable by taper-time.   3) A long run each week at a comfortable pace. Conventional wisdom    has typically been around 20 miles, but IMHO 16-18 is plenty    with your background. I’d still do one swim and one bike per week just to keep those skills active in your muscle memory. dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!). I have trained for 2 IM races, and this is actually part of my training for my 3rd in August 1997.  I have also done 1 marathon, but my training was haphazard. Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan?  I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience.  My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range). I am doing base/hillwork now, but nothing really beyond 1.5 hours. Thanks. -Rolf — Some call me Rolf…                             I tri…                                                  Looking to 1997…  IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47    IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35        IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!). I have trained for 2 IM races, and this is actually part of my training for my 3rd in August 1997.  I have also done 1 marathon, but my training was haphazard. Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan?  I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience.  My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range). I am doing base/hillwork now, but nothing really beyond 1.5 hours. Hi Rolf,

  The key, IMHO, is the long run.  You should be doing one long run a week, building up to 21-22 miles.  Start at a short distance and build up, adding one mile a week.  Run this at 45-60 seconds below your goal marathon pace.  The idea is to get your body used to running for a long time.  On the long runs, bring a water bottle (or two) or have another means of staying hydrated.  You can’t run these distances without water – even in winter.  As for the other days, I would probably include one day of tempo work and one or two days of slow recovery runs.  I assume you’ll also be continuing training in the other two events.   I just completed the Cape Cod marathon on 10/28 using this past summer’s triathlon training as a base and then doing a set of five long runs in the range of 17-21 miles.   Good luck.  See you at Penticton in August.   Martin — Martin Feeney Swim…Bike…Run…Collapse.  Triathletes have three times the fun.

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I plan to run a marathon on April 27, 1997, which also happens to be my 31st birthday (wow – I’m getting old!).   I have trained for 2 IM races, and this is actually part of my training for my 3rd in August 1997.  I have also done 1 marathon, but my training was haphazard.   Anyone care to offer advice on a training plan?  I have ideas and will borrow from my IM experience.  My target is to run the entire distance, secondary target is 8:00/mile (3:30 range).   I am doing base/hillwork now, but nothing really beyond 1.5 hours.   Thanks.   -Rolf — Some call me Rolf…                             I tri…                                                  Looking to 1997…  IMC ‘94 – 14:06:47    IMC ‘95 – 11:58:35        IMC ‘97 – 10:45:00

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Question:

        My main page now has links to the ITU Press Releases, phone and fax numbers for Mike Gillmore of the ITU,         As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc. are always appreciated! Since a press release is public info, could someone who goes into the ITU’s web page post the latest ITU press releases on rst? They always inspire such creative debate. Press Releases also show you the standard ITUparty line that the press and sponsors receive.

   Mmmm. I won’t log on to their site either, if I can possibly avoid it.    Your request jogged an interesting thought though…    What if TAD had their own "press secretary? Someone to gauge response to ITU postings and releases, comment on races, sponsors, etc. and follow up the ITU party line with a release or two of our own? We’ve certainly got the writing talent around here. I would think that all it would take would be a post here to test response to the missive, then e-mailing AND snail mailing a hard copy to local newspapers, appropriate sponsor marketing directors, IT & Triathlete, etc. We could take turns, since it seems like different burrs get under different saddles…    Comments? Kurian Davis

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        My main page now has links to the ITU Press Releases, phone and fax numbers for Mike Gillmore of the ITU,         As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc. are always appreciated!

Since a press release is public info, could someone who goes into the ITU’s web page post the latest ITU press releases on rst? They always inspire such creative debate. Press Releases also show you the standard ITUparty line that the press and sponsors receive. — JJ Jeffrey Justice Oceanside, CA

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        A new feature in the upcoming weeks will be a report on bicycle technology based on a comprehensive review of US Patents that have recently issued.  QRMan where are the patents on all of your great products?!???

Patents shmatents.  You patent ‘em, I sell ‘em. QRman

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        My main page now has links to the ITU Press Releases, phone and fax numbers for Mike Gillmore of the ITU, USA Triathlon’s Position Paper (courtesy of QRMan), all of the QR surveys/petitions/etc., a link to the TAD t-shirts, and a link to "A Snail’s Pace" anti-drafting petition.  Please let me know if I missed any links.  Other minor updates were also made in the main page.   Team RST has 220+ members, so go register if you haven’t already!  We’re missing a few notables that I will not name.  It’s free, and you can use the searching program to find triathletes all over the world.  The race calendar program is still in the works, so please be patient.  Tri-Talk has been very popular (real-time chatting with triathletes around the world!), and you may even see some languages other than English being spoken there.  I am aware of the bug that shuts the program down occasionally, and I’m working on it.         A new feature in the upcoming weeks will be a report on bicycle technology based on a comprehensive review of US Patents that have recently issued.  QRMan where are the patents on all of your great products?!???         As always, comments, criticisms, suggestions, etc. are always appreciated! Marty Martin J. Miller The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb/triweb.html

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  Since a press release is public info, could someone who goes into the   ITU’s web page post the latest ITU press releases on rst? They always   inspire such creative debate. Press Releases also show you the standard   ITUparty line that the press and sponsors receive. Umm .. that would require _someone_ to go into the ITU’s web page, wouldn’t it? Woof!

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        A new feature in the upcoming weeks will be a report on bicycle technology based on a comprehensive review of US Patents that have recently issued.  QRMan where are the patents on all of your great products?!??? Patents shmatents.  You patent ‘em, I sell ‘em. QRman

“`  <—smiley face biting toungue (notice blood droplets) — Marty Miller Proprietor of The Triathlete’s Web http://w3.one.net/~triweb

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Whoah! the press release idea is great!  We should probably try it too.

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Good start, but I have a couple things on my mind about it. If you aren’t the best cyclist, wouldn’t it still be advantageous to stay in the pack?  The pack tends to go faster than individual cyclists, so a better time would be achieved by staying that way. Would this now make the sport a test of who is the best at a single sport and can hold his/her own in the others?  For example your IMH calculations. Just wondering. Jason

This is a good point, the pack would still be there, but the guy who really wants to win will have to make a break, maybe breaks will be made in pairs or threes, but ideally these smaller packs would break up too. As far as the IMH calcs go, I think that Mueller was probably the better all round athelete (check his splits !), though I did’nt do the IMH calcs so I don’t know that record they were measured against. tim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stuff deleted. This is a good point, the pack would still be there, but the guy who really wants to win will have to make a break, maybe breaks will be made in pairs or threes, but ideally these smaller packs would break up too. tim IDEALLY!!! even the smaller packs wouldn’t form at all and no drafting would exist ever, in Triathlon. Packs form when weaker riders hammer to catch up a small distance behind a better cyclist, then suck a wheel for the rest the race or when several racers exit T1 simultaneously and the poor cyclists suck a wheel for 40km.

Personally, the IDEAL solution (if we have to live with drafting) is to put the bike leg either first or last.  Safety reasons dictate that the swim should probably go first, then the bike should be last. Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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No matter where you put the bike leg- if there is drafting, no aero bars – plain & simple Jim Harris

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   No matter where you put the bike leg-    if there is drafting, no aero bars –    plain & simple    Jim Harris I’m going to have to second this idea.  I’ve seen some very ugly crashes in pack situations even with experienced rider on standard race bikes.  The thought of what would of happened to a group with less racing experience and aero bars is very frightening.  Call be a retro-grouch if you want, but I think time trial bikes should only be used in time trials. Steve (who has time trial bars on 2/3’s of his bikes)

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stuff deleted. This is a good point, the pack would still be there, but the guy who really wants to win will have to make a break, maybe breaks will be made in pairs or threes, but ideally these smaller packs would break up too. tim

IDEALLY!!! even the smaller packs wouldn’t form at all and no drafting would exist ever, in Triathlon. Packs form when weaker riders hammer to catch up a small distance behind a better cyclist, then suck a wheel for the rest the race or when several racers exit T1 simultaneously and the poor cyclists suck a wheel for 40km. I think e should re-establish a ban on drafting and shoot offenders with a paint ball gun, they would then be sent down a separate chute at the end of the bike and become filler for hot dogs. Well trained marshalls with balls would help a little too. In the old days purgerers would have a P branded into their toungues! How about we Tattoo a D on the forehead of people caught drafting for a second time. If the death penalty is good enough for murderers, how about drafting weenies getting the same fate? I bet drafting would cease to exist at races in a hurry. Just some random musings….. I have a headache and am not a happy camper today (could ya tell?) TriDork

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Clever idea. How would transition times fit in to the calculations? Joel

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Good start, but I have a couple things on my mind about it. If you aren’t the best cyclist, wouldn’t it still be advantageous to stay in the pack?  The pack tends to go faster than individual cyclists, so a better time would be achieved by staying that way. Would this now make the sport a test of who is the best at a single sport and can hold his/her own in the others?  For example your IMH calculations. Just wondering. Jason

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I pre-posted this to TRI-DRS, apologies for bandwidth wastage. This is confusing, BUT PLEASE bear with me….. I’ve been thinking (uh-oh) about the thorny problem of drafting, TV the olympics and what its doing to triathlon. Maybe we need some compromise initially, before we get our ‘own’ way (tee hee). It seems that a TT style triathlon (staged interval starts) is a non-starter (don’t ask me why and no pun intended) I’ve got an idea that may help, tho’ I’m still thinking it thru, so it may help to get more opinions… I got some opinions and corrections from the guys on TRI-DRS, so thanks where due, these are however MY opinions, so feel free to blow me out of the water. The point I’m trying to attack here is that the ITU want drafting ‘cos they think (a) its unenforcable (b) packs give more excitement. In my opinion (a) is tricky , yes, and (b) is caused by only watching the highlights of the TdF. If we can reduce or remove the advantage of drafting for the competitor (who basically just wants to win), then the problem cures itself. What we need is a scheme that punishes complacency. If points were awarded after each discipline, as a ratio of performance for the, for the sake of argument, Olympic record in that discipline, (I realise in the Olympics  for example, this would mean that Triathlon would have to be after the 40km TT and use that same course), in the same way that decathalon is, then there would be a major incentive for competitors to go balls-out on each leg of the race. points = olympic record/personal time  * 1000 This would encourage an aggressive bike leg, as good cyclists are more likely to be close to the OR on a 40K TT, and hence scoop big points, than a good runner is to be close to the 10K OR and catch up points. some examples…. (with guestimated ORs) swim: 14min OR, 18min tri swim      14/18 * 1000 = 778 bike 54min OR, 57min tri swim      54/57 * 1000 = 947 run 26min OR, 31min tri run      26/31 * 1000  = 867 Assuming identical swims, if you cruise the bike, say 62min vs. some racing snake who splits 57min, and runs a 31min 10K (1814 pts), you have to run fast enough to get 943 points (1814 – (54/62 *1000)), which is a 27.5 min 10K! Hence there is no advantage in cruising the bike in a big pack, the advantage is in a breakaway…. All these calculations make good TV commentary material, and best of all, the first guy past the post is most likely will win ! Even better, there is No benefit from cruising in the pack, everyone in the pack will have to hammer. It has been pointed out that using this method for this years Ironman, Rainer Mueller would have just beaten Hellreigel. But I suspect that, (a) this is no bad thing, and (b) the race leader would be more likely to be the lead points scorer on a short course race like 1.5/40/10. I’m sure I’ve missed something, so critiscism greatfully accepted…….                         tim

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