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In case you missed this in today’s papers: July 26, 2001: Public Meeting for an Indoor Track McNabb Community Center 180 Percy Street – Preschool Room 7 PM Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In case you missed this in today’s papers: July 26, 2001: Public Meeting for an Indoor Track McNabb Community Center 180 Percy Street – Preschool Room 7 PM Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com

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Thanks! Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In case you missed this in today’s papers: July 26, 2001: Public Meeting for an Indoor Track McNabb Community Center 180 Percy Street – Preschool Room 7 PM Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com

– Daniel Pierre-Antoine Dept. of Political Science Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, ON  K1L 5B6

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Apparently the Ottawa Citizen thinks more hockey rinks are a good idea but an indoor track is not required. Ottawa Citizen Editorial: One more costly sports idea Read the editorial from Today’s Online Citizen at: http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/editorials/story.asp?id={C2A3A63E-682D-4113-820E-FB4C21DB0096} [Rebuild LONG URL] or link to from the Runner’s Web FrontPage. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

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Ridiculous. The article states that there are so many arenas because hockey and figure skating are so popular in Ottawa. Yeah, in the winter months (ok, a little longer than that). But I’d like to tell these people to go walk or drive *anywhere* along the Rideau Canal between downtown and Mooney’s Bay, and they are guaranteed to see runners everywhere. Almost every season. Certainly spring through fall, and maybe even some in winter (I don’t run that area in winter). Ah well, we’re just too strange for our own good. Cam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Runner’s Web Newsgroups: rec.running Apparently the Ottawa Citizen thinks more hockey rinks are a good idea but an indoor track is not required. Ottawa Citizen Editorial: One more costly sports idea Read the editorial from Today’s Online Citizen at: http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/editorials/story.asp?id={C2A3A63E-6 82D-4113-820E-FB4C21DB0096} [Rebuild LONG URL] or link to from the Runner’s Web FrontPage. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web <http://www.runnersweb.com A running and Triathlon Resource Portal

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Question:

 Is there a triathlon in St. John in the early fall? if so could someone please email me some info?  Thank You:-) Steve A

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Is this the St. John Triathlon you are looking for: http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com/html/triathalon.html Ken Is there a triathlon in St. John in the early fall? if so could someone please email me some info? Thank You:-) Steve A

Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html A running and triathlon resource site

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Yes,  Do you know if they will have it again this year? steve a

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Since the summer it has been a goal of mine to do some, since I have an excellent swimmer friend (not a bad runner, either), as well as a cycling demon who loves long distance. I would obviously run. I would like to get involved in the Oly-type ones next spring/summer where the run is 10k, but would consider a full Ironman, provided the timing was right (I have a marathon in October I don’t want to endanger). Anyway, anyone know where I can go? I live near Toronto and would like to enter a couple in this area, but as a relay team. Do most allow relay? I did a web search and it was kind of frustrating. I know there is one in Burlington in August(?). That’s all I have found. thanks, David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

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A local tri here allows relay teams, but I think you’re going to end up just searching for tri’s that are the right place and time and then emailing them to see if they allow relay teams. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since the summer it has been a goal of mine to do some, since I have an excellent swimmer friend (not a bad runner, either), as well as a cycling demon who loves long distance. I would obviously run. I would like to get involved in the Oly-type ones next spring/summer where the run is 10k, but would consider a full Ironman, provided the timing was right (I have a marathon in October I don’t want to endanger). Anyway, anyone know where I can go? I live near Toronto and would like to enter a couple in this area, but as a relay team. Do most allow relay? I did a web search and it was kind of frustrating. I know there is one in Burlington in August(?). That’s all I have found. thanks, David (in Ontario) — —  :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.  "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

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David, Most triathlons have a relay event.  You can usually elect to have an all male, all female, or mixed team.  Since we are starting the winter, not many of the triathlon race lists have been completed.  For general race calanders, I suggest you check out: www.triathletemag.com http://www.greatoutdoors.com/auto_docs/insidetri/ For something more specific to your area, drop the people at:: http://www.crosstrainingclub.com/ a line.  They should be able to direct you towards a local calander. Eric Weiss – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since the summer it has been a goal of mine to do some, since I have an excellent swimmer friend (not a bad runner, either), as well as a cycling demon who loves long distance. I would obviously run. I would like to get involved in the Oly-type ones next spring/summer where the run is 10k, but would consider a full Ironman, provided the timing was right (I have a marathon in October I don’t want to endanger). Anyway, anyone know where I can go? I live near Toronto and would like to enter a couple in this area, but as a relay team. Do most allow relay? I did a web search and it was kind of frustrating. I know there is one in Burlington in August(?). That’s all I have found. thanks, David (in Ontario) — — :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. "Nunc scio quid sit amor." .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.

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I realized when I arrived that I had no chance of knowing who you were. The girls in the massage tent were friendly though.  One of the other Cairns Croc.s guys was there as well. I forget his name, but he did a great time of about 4:30 and gave me some good advice. Your note about the Electrolytes is interesting too. I spoke today with Allen from East Coast Cycles in Brisbane ( a really big tri. group) He had a similar thing to say. He said his guys always kept a bottle of some carbo-loading drink on them for the few days before the race. That way they get plenty of water, easily digestible food, and electrolytes. You were right about the rain as well. It didn’t fine up until after the start of my run. – I did the same thing as you except I left my hat and sunnies in transition. I was in such a daze though, I hardly even thought about it. When is Ironman Canada? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I forgot to add- the winners were Craig Alexander and Chippy Slater. Their times were something incredible, like 3:57 and 3:59 if I remember rightly. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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WAY TO GO Despite the bad weather you stuck it out and finished under 10% over your goal. Not bad for a first 1/2. Glad to hear that being a tough SOB still counts for something. Kevin

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Phil, Great effort in your first Half Ironman. Sorry I didn’t get to meet up with you but I understand you had a good chat with some of my friends at the massage tent while I was still out on the course "appreciating the experience". My fourth attempt was less than ideal. Although I was under-trained for the event due to my accident 2 months ago I was still optimistic about doing a PB (better than 6:14). The swim went well despite the cross current (local knowledge helps) and I hit transition 4 minutes better than last year and felt great (36:03). So far so good. I had a reasonable transition (around 2:08) and hit the road on my new Cdale MS4000. I had only ridden it 210 kms in training so it was a guess as to how it/I would go. Conditions were ideal – cool and overcast with no wind. I made good time with very little effort, powering through the rolling hills with ease to the turn around at 30 km. Hitting the hills again on the return 30 km was a bit harder but I still felt great. At the 60 km mark, armed with fresh water, I started the last 30 km into Cairns – very flat and fast except it started to rain and the headwinds arrived (as always). My legs were starting to get tired. Decision time. Back off and save something for the run or keep pushing and see if I could maintain my average speed. The run would be in the rain so dehydration wouldn’t be the problem it was last year and the new bike was flying so I went for it. Hit transition with an average speed of 29.3 kph – very fast for me but my legs were tired now. Transition was fair at 2::43 and I was out on the run. Had my hat but left my sun glasses due to the rain. My legs were heavy but I was moving ok. After 1 km the sun came out and the heat started. After 5 km I was toast. By 8 km I was cramping badly and by 11 km could only manage a brisk walk. Legs didn’t feel bad, I wasn’t that tired but they just would push without seizing up – right calf mostly. It takes a long time to walk 10 km! My run took 3:14:51- a new PW (personal worst). During post race analysis I decided that I had over hydrated during the 5 days leading up to the event with straight water  and hence flushed out some electrolytes. Should have used more sport drink and added more salt to my food. Water and fuel intake on the bike were ok but the damage was already done – hence the cramps. Water intake during the run was all my belly would hold but due to the heat and the time it took I lost over 5 Kgs so dehydration towards the end was a major problem. Total finishing time was 6:59:41, also a PW. Despite the time I was actually quite pleased with the race. My swim was a 4 minute PB and the bike was a 10 minute PB with less training than ever before. I made the decision to push the bike and expected to pay for it on the run – just not quite so much. Lessons learned: 1) more training required, especially on the bike, 2) the weather can change, 3) watch the electrolyte balance and 4) walking is really slow    I am still on track for Ironman Canada 1999. Rob Mackenzie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday I completed my first long Triathlon, the Cairns Half Ironman. Today I have a lot more respect for those guys (and girls) who call themselves Ironmen. snip

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Yesterday I completed my first long Triathlon, the Cairns Half Ironman. Today I have a lot more respect for those guys (and girls) who call themselves Ironmen. After starting triathlon last year and gaining some confidence with improving times in sprint and then two Olympic distance triathlons, I thought I would give the longer distance a shot. I didn’t have a clue what to aim for, but my Olymic dist. time last month was 2:18 on a very tough course, and after some advice from guys on this newsgroup (thanks guys) I figured on 5 hours, and worked my targets around that. I was told the Cairns Half Ironman was one of the toughest races of its length in the world, but I was not to be put off, as I had also heard it was one of the most scenic. I would like to say that it was too much looking at the scenery that was the cause of my dismal performance, but that would not be true – The fact was, the race was just a mite too LONG for me. All I could think during the run was how mad I was for even considering doing it at all, let alone entertaining ideas of doing a decent time. My taper was not good, as I had not had much time to train for the 3 weeks before the race. So I had a few aprehensions at the start, but I had planned to break 5 hours, and thought maybe I could still do it. The start was at dawn. There was just enough light to see the "No swimming, Crocodiles" sign in front of the beach. There was some current, and swimmers were going everywhere all over the show. The sun rising over the horizon behind the buoys did not help. I came out onto the beach (without any close encounters of the reptilian kind) in just under 36 min -two minutes slower than I had planned, but better too slow that too fast, and it was just the start…right? Wrong. There was some drafting going on, but I made a point of doing it alone, and held a good pace up the coast to the 30km turn around. then back down to the 60k mark. The scenery along the coastline was absolutely awesome, and I was actually enjoying the hills. Things started to come apart through the last 30k into Cairns city. Rain came out of no-where and came down all the way into Cairns.  The infamous headwinds picked up a little also, and the quads began to complain. A bunch of guys cheering everyone on at one roundabout were nearly the only thing that inspired me enough to keep up a reasonable pace – that and some of the female age-groupers screaming passing me. I stumbled off the bike into the run transition in 3 hours 24 mins. Not bad I thought. That was 2:49 for the bike leg. Again, slower than planned, but only by 4 minutes. I no longer had any thoughts of doing 5 hours but (I thought) if I can do a decent run, I can still be close to the mark – HA! I understand now what race organizer Mark Bulley (?) meant when he said to me that the race starts with the run. He meant, those who like pain go fast, those who don’t, don’t. After the first 6 or so kilometers of utter agony in the quads – and everywhere else, I took an unavoidable toilet stop and resigned myself to more of a humble stumble. The weather kindly fined up just before I came into the run transition and I spent the entire 21.1km in burning tropical heat – and mud. Fortunately there were aid stations every kilometer of the 7.1km x 3 lap course. These, as well as hundreds of cheering, half drunk women having a champagne breakfast near our goal (and turnaround) after their charity run, got me through to the finish eventually.  The run along the esplanade also looks quite nice from the photos – but for the notice I gave it, I could have been in Outer Mongolia.  Apparently I had a big grin on my face most of the way, but that was probably the halucinations kicking in. Altogether the run took me two very tough hours. Despite such a disgraceful run leg, I was completely wrapped with the race, and my time of 5:24:48 -88th overall and 17th in my agegroup. So in conclusion, this long-course business is, well, insane, (no offence) and I won’t recommend it to anyone, unless they are determined hard-core, stubborn SOB’s. I get the feeling that it hurt everyone as much as it was hurting me, but the fast guys just ignore the pain and push on "pretending" as if they were running almost fresh. It was inspirational to see Craig Alexander and Chippy Slater looking so comfortable out there, knowing that they hurt like hell, but were still really kicking. As for me I am a stubborn SOB, so I am planning to go back to Tokyo and get me some of this brick training, and see what wonders it can work. Happy training, Phil Ryan Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

On November 13th the International Triathlon Union (ITU) announced that Davidson College located in Davidson, North Carolina will be the site of the 1999 ITU World Duathlon Championship. The event is scheduled for October 9-10, 1999 and will use the same course as the 4th stop on the Dannon Duathlon circuit on Aug. 15, 1999. Athletes will compete on a run course of 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) in and around the Davidson Campus.  Followed by a 40 kilometer (25 mile) bike course through the beautiful rolling countryside just east of campus.  Participants will then run a 5 kilometer course that will finish in the Davidson football Stadium. The management team chosen by ITU is Premier Event Management, L.L.C., based in New Orleans, Louisiana.  Premier produces the Dannon Duathlon Championship Series.  Further information will be available on the Dannon Duathlon website at http://www.dannonduathlon.com as plans are finalized.

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Excellent! Chance for us Brits to make the trip Stateside! — Tim Grose Please remove xxx if replying – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On November 13th the International Triathlon Union (ITU) announced that Davidson College located in Davidson, North Carolina will be the site of the 1999 ITU World Duathlon Championship.

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Question:

I am looking for a calendar of all the Ohio, North Carolina, and Tennessee-based triathalons for August, September, & October.  If anyone can help direct me to such calendars, please send e-mail to

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I live in Texas, so put the proper filter on this info.  But you might want to check out: http://www.lin-mark.com/  (Northeast tri’s) There is a good one just for Ohio, but I can’t seem to find it now. However, there are two race directors, Jim Donaldson and Joyce Payne, that may be able to help you.  They can be reached via email at: Good luck! Cary — Cary Purdy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a calendar of all the Ohio, North Carolina, and Tennessee-based triathalons for August, September, & October.  If anyone can help direct me to such calendars, please send e-mail to

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Go to www.runningnetwork.com and click on RunOHIO.  I’m not sure what tell you about NC and TN.  Good Luck. Sean Kern 2d Lt, USAF Colorado Springs, CO "If your mind believes, your body achieves!"

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Don’t know about a calender, but in Ohio we’ve got the Clif Bar Series that runs throughout the state and summer.  This year they are USAT sanctioned (which is a huge improvement over last year) and the races are pretty well run.  They are directed by HFP, which has a web page at www.hfpracing.com Paul

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Question:

Peter Reid wins two Ironman races goes like a rockjet at hawaii and still can’t make Canada’s Top spot. How can this be? Who outside the America’s has heard of the winners – How did they fair at ‘their’ worlds? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Triathlon Canada has announced their 1997 "Triathletes of the Year". Sharon Donnelly of Ottawa and Simon Whitfield of Kingston  were named "World Cup’" Triathletes of the Year.

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Triathlon Canada has announced their 1997 "Triathletes of the Year". Sharon Donnelly of Ottawa and Simon Whitfield of Kingston  were named "World Cup’" Triathletes of the Year. The TRICAN site is at www.trican.org. Check under their "News" icon. Ken Ken Parker Runner’s Web http://www.runnersweb.com/running.html

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Peter Reid wins two Ironman races goes like a rockjet at hawaii and still can’t make Canada’s Top spot. How can this be?

SNIP Simon and Sharon were "world cup" triathletes of the year. Simon finished 9th in Perth, won Bakersfield and a stage in the France IronTour (not a World Cup event, but also short course). More info on Simon can be found on his homepage: http://www.teamchampion.com/athletes/simon/index.html   It is a pretty funny homepage as well (don’t forget to check ALL his photos), as is the man himself. Peter Reid and Heather Fuhr were triathletes of the year AND long course triathletes of the year. I don’t think anybody can or would like to dispute that. Sincerely, Gerard Vroomen, Cervelo Cycles website: http://www.cervelo.com

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Peter Reid wins two Ironman races goes like a rockjet at hawaii and still can’t make Canada’s Top spot. How can this be? Who outside the America’s has heard of the winners – How did they fair at ‘their’ worlds? Triathlon Canada has announced their 1997 "Triathletes of the Year". Sharon Donnelly of Ottawa and Simon Whitfield of Kingston  were named "World Cup’" Triathletes of the Year.

Nick, Rest assured, Peter Reid is indeed, Canada’s outright triathlete of the Year and Heather Fuhr was named Canada’s top female triathlete. The World Cup Triathletes of the year were, as the post stated Sharon Donnelly and Simon Whitfield, for their achievements on the ITU world cup circut and at the ITU World Championships. Steve Fleck

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Question:

Dear All,        I need to know what the general consenous is on doing swim drills. I’m a triathlete of 3 years. I have 3 years of swimming experience. My time for 100 yds is 65 seconds. Whenever I practice the swim drills (I only practice 6 or seven of the different drills) I’ll do repeats of 50 to 100 yds. My time for the drills over 100yds falls between 1:50 to 2:10. Swimming/doing drills in 2:10 is a whole different animal than cruising a swim 100 in :65 and wonder if I really am deriving benefit from the drills? Since I’m positioned way, way, way lower in the water in the drills I wonder if I’m training the technique to do something that isn’t done in competition(sitting on top of the water).      I hope this attempts to convay my question with drills and if not I’ll be happy to explain some more to those who can help. Thanks in Advance, Joe

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: Dear All, :        I need to know what the general consenous is on doing swim : drills. I’m a triathlete of 3 years. I have 3 years of swimming : experience. My time for 100 yds is 65 seconds. Whenever I practice the …. : different animal than cruising a swim 100 in :65 and wonder if I : really am deriving benefit from the drills? Since I’m positioned way, I’m sorry, didn’t they tell you?  Triathletes who can "cruise" 100 free in 65 are not allowed to ask swim questions here, only answer them. . Seriously, I don’t have an exact answer for you, other than to say that at our masters workouts, the coaches prescribe drills for every lane, including the fast lanes of elite swimmers and pro triathletes (I won’t name drop but use your imagination…no, more famous… no, even more famous…). As to whether they actually DO the drills, I can’t say, they move through the water too fast and they are so many lanes away things are a bit blurry. For me, drills help – (I don’t have a lot of experience, I have probably done 100y in 1:10 all out and these days I think I could can manage 10×100 on the 1:30 with a tiny bit of rest, we are doing long course meters lately so I can’t say exactly).  A good sequence of drills will result in a drop in my stroke count for a subsequent freestyle piece.  Which says to me I have a ways to go yet. I will say that taking up to double the time seems like too much, for drills like swim-with-fists, two-right-two-left, catchup freestyle, etc. Other drills might be a different story.   The whole on-top-of-the-water thing is affected by wetsuits, swimming on your side/pressing the T (Laughlin), etc.  Getting up high in the water with pure muscle power/turnover and going fast is usually not applicable to triathlon distance swimming – but if you hold that pace and do 1500 free in 17.5 minutes then I guess maybe there could be something to the idea that you are training the wrong systems with slow drills.  If on the other hand your distance freestyle pace is more mortal then I would not agree that drills, properly done, hurt your race form.  By properly done I’m suggesting that maybe catastrophic alteration of body position when slowed by the drills is not a proper consequence… Bottom line – ask a coach. Wade Blomgren UC San Diego wade @ hobbes.ucsd.edu

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Bottom line…the best in the world do drills and tons of them

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All,        I need to know what the general consenous is on doing swim drills. I’m a triathlete of 3 years. I have 3 years of swimming experience. My time for 100 yds is 65 seconds. Whenever I practice the swim drills (I only practice 6 or seven of the different drills) I’ll do repeats of 50 to 100 yds. My time for the drills over 100yds falls between 1:50 to 2:10. Swimming/doing drills in 2:10 is a whole different animal than cruising a swim 100 in :65 and wonder if I really am deriving benefit from the drills? Since I’m positioned way, way, way lower in the water in the drills I wonder if I’m training the technique to do something that isn’t done in competition(sitting on top of the water).      I hope this attempts to convay my question with drills and if not I’ll be happy to explain some more to those who can help. Thanks in Advance, Joe

my best for a 100m front crawl is a 56sec.  well, i find that the drills done helps a lot in stroke efficiency.  less stroke per length of the pull.  the trick for me during drills is to ensure that i try not to go beyond certain number strokes per lap. also, swim drills is just like what the runners do.  running drills.

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I’m a pretty inexperienced swimmer, i started about…. two years ago. Swim drills are stupid.  i listen to my swim coaches  who say to lift weights, swim twice a day/6 days a week, 10 interval sessions a week – with workouts ranging from 3,000-8,000 yds. They say your stroke is supposed to fall apart, then you repair it during the taper period.   So just do the old fashioned way : put ur head down and plow through the water.  no short cuts if you want results quick.   ‘95 – - – 1.2 mile   : 50:03 ‘97 – - – 2.4 miles  : 48:33 Chris

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Hi Joe, it depends on what drills you are doing.  Body positioning is one of the most important aspects of swimming faster, so you should try to keep good body position when swimming anything. Also is 1:05 for 100 yds an all out sprint, or do you have something left when you are done?   And when you say it take 1:50 – 2:10 for the drills is that you actual swim time, or is that the interval that you are swimming the set on? Drills when correctly performed are very beneficial to swimming.   How old are you?  As an adult who started swimming only 3 years ago, 1:05 for 100 yds is pretty good, but what about your 825yd time or your 1650 time?  These are more pertinent to triathloning.  I know quite a few triathletes that I would leave sucking water in a 100yd free, but they are faster than me when it comes to anything over 200yds.  If you would like some more info let me know… Ed "COOL they got a BLIMP"  The TICK

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Well, it has been a few days, and I haven’t seen any others, so here is a brief and personal account of the Texas Hill Country Triathlon held 06 September 1997, at Canyon Lake near New Braunfels in central Texas. Friday’s pre-race dinner and race meeting was held in the WurstHall in New Braunfels. Banners and beer kegs indicate the pronounced German heritage in central Texas. Organization was good. An estimated 1000 triathletes and 1400 volunteers are signed up for the event. Saturday morning’s conditions are excellent. The water of Canyon Lake is still, and the wind is less than 5 miles per hour. Water temp is 82-84 and wetsuits are disallowed. Air temp is 82 and expected to climb to 95 by midday. About 5 – 6 waves take off in 3 minute intervals on the 1.5 mile triangular course. The 48 mile bike course is scenic and difficult. For those of you familiar with Hill Country outside of Austin and San Antonio, the course winds its way around Route 46, highways 2722, 281 and 3159. These roads consist of mile after mile of rolling hills and very little flat ground. Most flatlanders must stand to ascend, but as an Austin resident, I shift down into 42×20 and pass a lot of victims of gravity on the hills. (Well at least that’s what it feels like to this middle-of-the-packer who averaged 20.5 mph.) The organization of this race is fantastic. There are plenty of police, traffic directors, and draft marshalls. The roads are wide and I see no drafting cheaters. Each aid station has a different theme. I see a Construction Zone, a Woodstock nation, a South Pacific island, Area 51, a mini Graveyard. Cool! The 10 mile run also heads out into the hills, and the midday sun is merciless. I guess I pushed too hard on the bike because my first two miles are fraught with major cramps in my diaphragm. It feels like my lungs are sewn shut. I apply the usual medication of "drink more Gatorade."  Some hills are so steep that all the athletes are walking. As the miles go by, my running gets better. As I finish, alarm bells go off. I have pushed too hard and am over heated. I immediately seek shade, but my skin is clammy, I have goose bumps, confusion, and nausea – heat exhaustion. It takes me 45 minutes and lots of ice water to recover from the pain. Tim Deboom won the race. Austin’s own James Bonney finished 3rd. Pauli Kiuru finished 5th. I haven’t seen other results on the web yet. The Austin American Stateman make no mention of the race. The San Antonio News Express (sponsor of the race) has an article and a few pictures. Overall, I think Texas Hill Country is a fantastic race. It comes at a good time for the October ironman races. It also is a beautiful course to visit and the race is well run. Bravo organizers! Thanks, Dan Web Page: http://www/io/com/~beckerdo

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Overall, I think Texas Hill Country is a fantastic race. It comes at a good time for the October ironman races. It also is a beautiful course to visit and the race is well run. Bravo organizers! Thanks, Dan Web Page: http://www/io/com/~beckerdo

 I had a friend do it and she said it was killer, but she finished.  I plan to do it next year.  Thanks for humorous play by play.  It makes it more appealing to me. You’re right it is beautiful scenic country. Congratulations!                                                             ~O      ’                  -  __o        _____  </<  `     ‘              -    <       _____ ~/    /o_         – (()) (())                         / Jose’ A. Grimaldo, Jr. "Tri-ing for My Life"

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Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on  to being a meter maid.

More flame-bait from the expert baiter!  I wonder how many will bite this time around? Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of

All right! Keep up the good work. Did they beat you up with a stick too? — +   Jean-Didier Allegrucci  - (ISD VLSI Engineering)    + +                                                       +

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Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on to being a meter maid. You certainly affirm the old saying that "opinions are like a–holes, everybody has one"

Yeah, this guy makes it easy, if I see his name on the list of competitors, I’ll just check to see if  he wants me to DQ him before the start. TriRef ps. Hey Alex i guess you’ ve never done anything for yourself, must have copied others papers on the way to that Dr.

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: : Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable : scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of : borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this : population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on :  to being a meter maid. : It’s always so nice when someone charming and informative like : "Dr. Alec Hull" crawls out from under a rock every few months to : contribute such "valuable information" to our newsgroup. I guess : the ITU must really be desperate for supporters if they have : "Dr. Hull" on their payroll. Congratulations, "Dr. Hull", and please : join the other amorphous blobs in my kill file. : Cathy Corning cathy, you are way too cool… now I won’t have to reply to this ITU plant! -Charlie Crawford

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Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on  to being a meter maid. More flame-bait from the expert baiter!  I wonder how many will bite this time around?

He’s not just an expert baiter, but a true master of his craft.  A real masterbater if you will!!! Joel Falk Northwestern University, Evanston, IL.   USA

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Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on to being a meter maid.

You certainly affirm the old saying that "opinions are like a–holes, everybody has one"  

Response:

Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on  to being a meter maid. More flame-bait from the expert baiter!  I wonder how many will bite this time around?

It’s always so nice when someone charming and informative like "Dr. Alec Hull" crawls out from under a rock every few months to contribute such "valuable information" to our newsgroup. I guess the ITU must really be desperate for supporters if they have "Dr. Hull" on their payroll. Congratulations, "Dr. Hull", and please join the other amorphous blobs in my kill file. Cathy Corning

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Drafting marshals are equivalent to drunk drivers on the despicable scale. Having been DQ’d from a race for a nebulous offence by someone of borderline intellectual functioning, I have a personal dislike for this population. Your position should be eliminated and you could move on  to being a meter maid.

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Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Summary: Expires: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Keywords: Cc: "Vengence is mine", Sayeth the Lord, "O ye generation of vipers!" Why don’t you join the rest of us in a DEMOCRATIC, civilized world as we enter the 21st century? Sheesh! Grow Up! TriMol

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:         I found out yesterday, prior to todays Memphis in May, that if you are seen : drafting that there are 1.) no warnings and 2.) instant disqualification.  Last year, : you were giving a warning and then a time penalty.  I am not questioning the issue of : The penalty for drafting should be a variable time penalty, no : warnings this year ,if you draft expect to pay the price. Just say no : to drafting. Though Bruce is correct about drafting being a variable time penalty, each year the Race Director at Memphis asks for a rules amendment from the Ex. Dir. and receives one to make drafting and all chinstrap violations DQ on first offence.   Sure seemed to work well… maybe we should go back to the DQ for drafting.  Any comments?  How about anyone who gets a drafting penalty is ineligible for an Ironman slot (this would have to be an Ironman Corp. rule).  For the past two years, athletes who have been penalized for drafting have still won their ironman slots.  After all, 2 minute penalty for 56 miles of drafting????? -Charlie Crawford

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: There is not need to pull people out of the race:  just let them know they are : drafting.  The people who are going for the top places will know that they : have been DQed.  The rest of us can just keep plodding along.  Complete I instruct my marshalls to NOT say anything to the competitors.  First of all, the marshall can never be sure if I am going to penalize the athlete and certainly should not bother the athlete with erroneous information.   After all, I threw out 112 calls at Gulf Coast because of failure to follow protocol, and dismaissed more calls at Memphis than the total number of penalties that I posted. Please understand, the draft marshall does NOT give penalties.  he reports incidents that he has witnessed on the course to the Head Official who then determines if a violation has occurred. For a marshall to disqualify and pull an athlete from a race for a position violation would be analagous to a policeman sentencing someone to prison or the chair. -Charlie Crawford

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I think there should be a variable penalty for drafting because there are different types of violators.

 Personal integrity should count for something.  There will always be those who push the envelope of rules in order for personal gain, but the heck with them.  Most of us want a fair race and try our best to race clean.  Looking yourself in the mirror should be enough of a indicator of ones integrity. Steve Cassidy

  Steve, let’s be thankful that we have USAT, an organization that listens to it’s members. We have overwhelmingly stated that we don’t want drafting in our races, so they are doing their best to see to our wishes. We owe Charlie and the other officials a pat on the back for taking on an awesome task and not backing off. The new NO TOLERANCE policy may upset a few people but they will get used to it. We have to show that drafting rules can be enforced. Just realize that a penalty is not a question of one’s integrity. It is merely a notice that one was somewhere they shouldn’t be, whether it was intentional or not. Penalties in football , basketball, etc. aren’t necessarily intentional, either. Sitting in the penalty box doesn’t make a hockey player a bad person. It just means he pushed the envelope too far, in the opinion of the official.   We can’t expect the officials to try to determine intent, too. Let the penalties be called as they see ‘em. Keep the penalties equal. Those who made an honest mistake will try not to do it again. The cheaters are the ones who might have a hard time looking in the mirror. We can do without them, anyway. Andrew Peabody Miami Beach

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I think there should be a variable penalty for drafting because there are different types of violators.  You and I spoke at length after Gulf Coast and I acknowledge receiving an illegal pass penalty.  However, regarding that race and others, there were wheelsucking drafters in packs and the unfortunate few who, due to course conditions such as crowded roads and slower riders in front, were in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I completely agree that drafting should not be allowed and should be penalized.  But not all violators are equal, yet the penalty is. Logistically it would be tough but could you guys carry camcorders and videotape drafters for interpretation and proof after the race?  Whatever the end result of all this drafting debate, it is definitely impacting our sport in a big way.  Its changing the focus of the race and forcing us to concentrate more on tactics and draft avoidance rather than effort and speed.  This past weekend I did a local race called the Madeira Beach triathlon.  It was a sprint distance with about 500 competitors.  It was on the beach and reached back to the roots of triathlon.  Everyone had fun, few people took themselves too seriously or worried about governing bodies.  People were out to enjoy themselves and get a sense of accomplishment and comraderie.  I wish we could recapture that sense of freedom at the bigger races.  The sport and its quest for validation is changing its complexion.  Keep the rules simple and few, since most of us are not making money from the sport and are out for personal gratification I think to some degree it tarnishes the sport when a slew of 100+ racers are penalized at several races.  Personal integrity should count for something.  There will always be those who push the envelope of rules in order for personal gain, but the heck with them.  Most of us want a fair race and try our best to race clean.  Looking yourself in the mirror should be enough of a indicator of ones integrity. Steve Cassidy

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        I found out yesterday, prior to todays Memphis in May, that if you are seen drafting that there are 1.) no warnings and 2.) instant disqualification.  Last year, you were giving a warning and then a time penalty.  I am not questioning the issue of drafting but I wonder if those amateurs who just come out to do a triathlon for the first time, those who have no chance of winning, or just the "recreational" trathletes are being deterred.  It would be pretty disheartening for a newcomer to come out and put in 3hours only to find out later that they were disqualified.

The penalty for drafting should be a variable time penalty, no warnings this year ,if you draft expect to pay the price. Just say no to drafting. TriRef

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In response to Rob’s question, my first reaction was "so what?".  I mean, most newcommers are likely to place in the top 5 of their age group, so a disqualification or even a time penalty would seem to be meaningless. Now that I have thought this over (a little), I begin to wonder what good penalties or disqualifications will do for anyone who is NOT trying to win the race.  There are a lot of Moppers and Boppers who participate for fun and to complete the race.  While I am 100%

That would be me.  I’m happy to be in the top half of my age group (20-30 Male). opposed to drafting, if I received a penalty or was disqualified it would mean nothing to me.  I still accomplished to goal I set: to finish the race in front of at least one other age grouper .  The only penalty that would make a difference for me is to be pulled out of the race before the end. Any other thoughts on penalties?

There is not need to pull people out of the race:  just let them know they are drafting.  The people who are going for the top places will know that they have been DQed.  The rest of us can just keep plodding along.  Complete beginners might not even know what the draft marshall is talking about. Race directors can still publish the times of the drafters, just leave columns for placing blank. — Dan Reiley, Ph.D.         Bell Labs           Naperville, IL

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I understand the basics of what constitutes drafting and why it is, in general, not a good thing but I was hoping someone might explain why drafting has become such a "hot" issue.

It has always been a hot issue.  It has recently become hotter because the ITU has legalized drafting in all their races, citing (along with other reasons) that it is impossible to enforce drafting rules.  In every survey I have seen, an overwhelming majority of triathletes are against legalized drafting, and USAT is backing them up by trying to show that drafting rules can be enforced.    I found out yesterday, prior to todays Memphis in May, that if you are seen drafting that there are 1.) no warnings and 2.) instant disqualification.  

What rules were they following?  According to the USAT rules, you cannot be disqualified for drafting, even if you draft the entire race.  Instead, you will be given a time penalty each time an official observes you drafting (which can add up). Last year, you were giving a warning and then a time penalty.

So all the athletes would have to do is avoid being spotted twice by the same official?  Or allow enough time between being spotted that the official forgets that he/she already warned you? Just like other sports, triathlons have rules.  The USAT cycling rules only take 2-1/2 pages of the 5-1/2"x8" rule book.  That is barely more than one side of an 8-1/2×11 inch sheet of paper.  All of the rules pertaining to competition only take 12-1/2 pages (not counting things like the optional pro rules, membership rules, bike specifications, medical control rules, protests, appeals, etc.).  It would probably take less time to read and understand the rules of the sport related to competitions than it takes for a single training session.  So I can only have so much sympathy for experienced triathletes who have made a decision not to do so. I am not questioning the issue of drafting but I wonder if those amateurs who just come out to do a triathlon for the first time, those who have no chance of winning, or just the "recreational" trathletes are being deterred.  

I think this was one of the reasons why so many penalties have been changed in recent years from disqualification to a time penalty.  The first-timer and recreational triathlete will still be an official finisher even if they do not yet fully understand all the rules (like drafting) and end up getting penalized.   If I were one of the only people penalized, and I did nothing that I didn’t see lots of other people doing, I might take offense.  But if I felt the officials also penalized everyone else they saw who violated the rules, I would have a hard time taking offense at the penalty.  This is what is happening this year.                                         — John PS – I have just finished updating the USA Triathlon rules that I keep on my web page to reflect the 1996 rules.  So anyone who wants to read the current rules can do so. — John Walker        Jackson & Tull Chartered Engineers, Seabrook, Maryland WWW URL:   http://xenon.stanford.edu/~walker  

Response:

        I found out yesterday, prior to todays Memphis in May, that if you are seen drafting that there are 1.) no warnings and 2.) instant disqualification.  Last year, you were giving a warning and then a time penalty.  I am not questioning the issue of drafting but I wonder if those amateurs who just come out to do a triathlon for the first time, those who have no chance of winning, or just the "recreational" trathletes are being deterred.  It would be pretty disheartening for a newcomer to come out and put in 3hours only to find out later that they were disqualified.

In response to Rob’s question, my first reaction was "so what?".  I mean, most newcommers are likely to place in the top 5 of their age group, so a disqualification or even a time penalty would seem to be meaningless. Now that I have thought this over (a little), I begin to wonder what good penalties or disqualifications will do for anyone who is NOT trying to win the race.  There are a lot of Moppers and Boppers who participate for fun and to complete the race.  While I am 100% opposed to drafting, if I received a penalty or was disqualified it would mean nothing to me.  I still accomplished to goal I set: to finish the race in front of at least one other age grouper .  The only penalty that would make a difference for me is to be pulled out of the race before the end. Any other thoughts on penalties? David

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I understand the basics of what constitutes drafting and why it is, in general, not a good thing but I was hoping someone might explain why drafting has become such a "hot" issue.         I found out yesterday, prior to todays Memphis in May, that if you are seen drafting that there are 1.) no warnings and 2.) instant disqualification.  Last year, you were giving a warning and then a time penalty.  I am not questioning the issue of drafting but I wonder if those amateurs who just come out to do a triathlon for the first time, those who have no chance of winning, or just the "recreational" trathletes are being deterred.  It would be pretty disheartening for a newcomer to come out and put in 3hours only to find out later that they were disqualified.           Just a few thoughts….Rob —                                         _                                      -     o                                     –    </_          ’              -    _o    -    _/   ‘    /o_  ’         –      <        - /

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