Question:

Congratualtions. Side note to Tricia: Tri-baby, you have serious competition in the race report (long) arena.:) Best, Mark

Response:

Congratualtions.

 Thanks Mark. Side note to Tricia: Tri-baby, you have serious competition in the race report (long) arena.:)

 I believe I’ve read only one of Tricia’s race reports, which was very fun. I suppose it’s a good thing I only sent my condensed SouthShore triathlon report… Just kidding ; I did send my full-length (and only) version.  Again, thanks. — :<=*= Lane R. Ellis <=*=: Reggae Land Systems <=*=: : P90/16MB/5.8GB/56Kbps   : / Writer/Audiophile /  : : A1000/A2000/C64/C16/C+4 : Truth Is A Pathless Land : : 400HP ‘87 Cartech Supra Turbo/5-speed/37,000 miles : : 3" Cartech-Borla Exhaust/Cartech Wastegate/TEMS/ABS: : 14 PSI – Blue – Moonroof – K&N FIPK – Greddy TTimer: : 170HP ‘82 Mark II Supra – Blue – Auto/201,000 miles: : Member "Supra Consciousness Society" of Duluth, MN.: : Web – HTTP://WWW.computerpro.com/~lellis/rl1.html  :

Response:

Howdy rec.sport.triathlon folks,  My name is Lane R. Ellis and I’m 29 years old. Last weekend I did my first triathlon, the SouthShore Triathlon, and had a very enjoyable time. I thought I’d post my race report here as my first post to RST. Someday I’d like to try the Ironman experience, but for now, here’s my story : The SouthShore Triathlon! By Lane R. Ellis (c) 1998 Written October 11th, 1998 Duluth, Minnesota What was it?         I just completed my first triathlon, the first of what I hope to be many more, and will record now to the best of my abilities the happenings of this event The name of my first triathlon was the "SouthShore Triathlon", as the course was laid out along the south shore of Lake Superior in northern Wisconsin between the town of Superior, neighbor to my home in Duluth, Minnesota, and the community of Ashland, roughly seventy miles to the northeast. This triathlon combined 10 miles of canoeing and 54 miles of mountain biking with 10.4 miles of running. (Note : the canoe course ended up being 13 miles.) Why did I do this?         In two weeks from now, on October 26th, I’ll be turning thirty, but it was back in the Spring of this year that I decided I’d like to run a marathon, which I did do, successfully I might add, in the 22nd running of Grandma’s Marathon on June 20th here in Duluth. The great feelings of accomplishment I experienced after completing my first marathon inspired me to enter the SouthShore Triathlon, which has been billed as the "Midwest’s Toughest Triathlon". This year I’ve been "training" (I use the word loosely since I always seem to go out and run or mountain bike more for the sheer fun of it rather than to put in so many miles or hours only for the purpose of a single race or event) since the first day of May, with only a handful of rest days, and I’ve been in the best shape of my life, so I decided to just go for it and do a triathlon. I found the inclusion of canoeing in the place of swimming to be an exciting feature of the SouthShore event, since I have always loved to canoe, while I haven’t done much swimming in recent years.         I first found out about this event about one month ago, but didn’t immediately sign up for it, because I had to find a partner for the canoe leg of the race. Luckily, I was able to find a canoe partner in my friend and fellow runner from work, Jerry Daniels. Then, after sending in my registration fee, I was able to adjust and fine-tune my training schedule to best prepare for the SouthShore Triathlon. Two weeks ago I had my toughest training week, running nearly 60 miles, mountain biking nearly 100, and canoeing 10. This past week, the one just prior to the big event, has been a rest week for the most part, as there really isn’t much that one can do in the week immediately preceding a triathlon like this, according to several authorities I had heard. I only took a few short 3.6 mile runs on my hilly training trails early in the week, while spending the rest of the week doing lots of stretching exercises and sit-ups/pull-ups, mainly resting however. I wondered how well I would be able to do in this triathlon, and eagerly awaited the day when I could try my luck in my first foray into the "tri" world.         This past Friday I picked up the canoe I was going to use in the triathlon from my friend Jerid Prahl. He has a nice green   seventeen foot canoe made from a plastic called Royalex*, with lightweight wicker seats, and I was happy to be able to use it, since it was quite a bit lighter than any other canoe I had access to. When I got it to my house I waxed it with carnuba car wax, a trick which is supposed to help the canoe glide more quickly through the water.         I went in to work at night and finished up just before 11:00 P.M., then came home to load up my car for the triathlon in the morning. I packed my red, circa 1988 Nashbar mountain bike into the back of my Supra. Then I fastened the canoe on top using racks, and bungee chords borrowed from my uncle Kurt Haldorsen. I’d also borrowed paddles, seat cushions and a life jacket from Kurt. Once I had these biggest items packed, I put in the bags I’d organized for each stage of my triathlon day : o  The pre-race bag containing warm layers of clothing, hats, a package of vanilla PowerGel, a bottle of water, along with my notes. o  My canoe race bag filled with a warm black Polartech* hat in case of wind or downright cold weather, a bottle of water, my canoeing slash biking gloves, sunglasses, and four packages of PowerGel, which I planned to eat at half hour intervals during the whole triathlon. o  The mountain biking bag containing my grey Specialized helmet, warm Thinsilate* gloves in case of bad weather, a fresh pair of socks in case of wet feet after the canoe race, two packages of PowerGel, two packages of "Gu" (another sticky performance food), and two Clif performance bars. o  My running bag was filled with my Adidas Response TR4 shoes, light blue lycra tights, fresh socks, a small plastic bag containing two packages of "Gu" and two of "PowerGel", my hand held white water bottle with black straps, a white singlet top, and a small waist pack with another water bottle attached. o  The bag for after the race, which I’d labeled "Lane’s Post-Race Goodies", which was occupied by two large containers of Gatorade, one bottle of orange juice, two packages of large "Grandma’s" cookies, a small bag full of real "Grandma’s" cookies made by my very own Grandma Lil Haldorsen, another small bag full of some of Lils chocolate-banana brownies, a Twix bar, a package of peanut butter M&M’s, a package of some sort of salty Doritos corn snacks, and several other assorted candy bars. You can probably tell from this list that I didn’t want to go hungry or have a less than adequate selection of snacks after my first triathlon should I finish… Also in my post-race bag were fresh clothes, my most comfortable shoes, a towel, and a small first aid kit.         It felt good to finally have my car packed and everything on my lengthy check list for the day crossed off, including one final stretching session before bed at 2:00 A.M. My alarm clock was set for 5:30 A.M., but I didn’t worry too much about not getting enough sleep, as I’d made sure to get plenty off extra sleep in during the previous week, and a very long "marathon" sleep of 13 hours or so the previous night.         I had a few hours of sleep, woke up to the alarm clock buzzing at 5:30 in the morning, and started my day off with ten minutes of stretching exercises. It was pitch black outside and I could see stars as I looked out of my windows. I then ate a breakfast of three strips of vegetarian bacon, two pieces of oatmeal toast topped with raspberry preserves made by my aunt Kathy Haldorsen, and a glass of rice milk to drink.         Shortly after 6:00 A.M. I hopped in my car and headed off towards Wisconsin. It was so still and quiet out on that Saturday morning, and it wasn’t until about a quarter after six o’clock when I could first see a patch of extremely faint light in the sky above Lake Superior, where the sun would eventually be rising.         Registration at the Barker’s Island Inn began at 6:15 A.M., and I found my friend and canoe partner for the day Jerry when I arrived, along with his mom Char and his fiancee Anne. About 75 or 80 people had entered this event, but we were some of the only ones lurking around at this early hour, and we then headed over to the site where the canoe section of the triathlon was scheduled to begin at 7:45 A.M., a place called Loonsfoot Landing.         I pulled into the large paved parking area on the shore of Lake Superior, grabbing a good close spot, parking in spaces that seemed 100 feet long to accommodate trucks pulling boats on trailers. The water was still and black and nearly silent. Two immense wooden ore docks stood on either side of this spot, used in days gone by to load the giant tanker ships of up to 1,000 feet in length. The loomed overhead perhaps a hundred or more feet from the surface of the water, and made the area seem protected and not at all unlike an ocean port. The dark sky suddenly awoke with a patch of white clouds far away and high in the sky, illuminated by the slowly rising sun. Jerry and I unfastened the canoe from my car, and then we each unpacked our mountain bikes.         Here there was more activity, with canoes, bikes and people appearing in ever greater numbers as the minutes passed. The canoes other triathletes had seemed to be state-of-the-art for the most part, and I saw the whole range of ultra light designs that morning, most of which I’d never seen before and which looked like gear like out of a NASA laboratory or an Olympic canoe training center at the very least. There were also a number of slick racing kayaks, both one and two person units. One canoe just amazed me in its design ; when I saw the guy who owned this one load something into it I could see his hand and arm right through the ultra-thin shell of the canoe! It was light brown, roughly 17 feet long, and made from some type of space-aged nearly translucent material. As more triathletes arrived Jerry and I both noticed more and more tricked out canoes and kayaks arriving, but we also saw a handful of more normal looking craft such as the one we’d be paddling before long. It definitely looked at though there were many serious paddlers  in this race, but I wasn’t at all worried. At least not yet…         Jerry and I hauled our canoe over to the waters edge early on, and then set up our seats and paddles. I was to canoe in the back which is my favorite and strongest position, while Jerry was in front, his spot of choice. I had a wooden paddle and Jerry a green plastic one. I set my canoe pack into the back of the boat and put on my leather palmed cycling gloves to get ready for the race which would start in about … read more »

Response:

Question:

I’m trying to decide which type of wet suit to buy.  A QR full suit or a long john.

Question to the group:  How about "Orca" suits.  More expensive, but aren’t they supposed to be technically faster and more comfortable?  Or am I just a sucker for a flashy add?? We know that time has wings, but we’re the ones who have to fly…

Response:

Question to the group:  How about "Orca" suits.  More expensive, but aren’t they supposed to be technically faster and more comfortable?  Or am I just a sucker for a flashy add??

our ads aren’t flashy? qrman

Response:

Question to the group:  How about "Orca" suits.  More expensive, but aren’t they supposed to be technically faster and more comfortable.

I can only answer based on my experience with the Orca, I’ve never used a QR.  I really love the suit, it cut 6 minutes off of my 1500m swim (from 28 to 22 as a PR, not the front of the pack but I’m happy).  The thing I like most is the fit and comfort.  I chose the Orca over the QR because they had more sizing options and my body type fit in their sizing chart better than QR’s.  The rubber is very supple and I’ve never felt constricted. My .02 FWIW. Gordon (Yakabo) Fesenger

Response:

I chose the Orca over the QR because they had more sizing options

i don’t mind orca getting their share of business, theirs is a good suit. but for the record, they have 14 sizes, we have 16.  i think their size availability is quite good.  but lack of size differentiation is usually not something at which we fall short. qrman

Response:

I’m trying to decide which type of wet suit to buy.  A QR full suit or a long john.  I did my first tri last September and didn’t need a wet suit.  This year I’m doing a handful of them.  Specifically I’m starting out the season doing the Columbia Triathlon, which I know I’ll need a wet suit.  Since all of the races I’m doing will be within couple of hours of the Washington/Baltimore area I’m thinking I might be better off just getting a long john since most of the water temps are reasonable.  Of course I know I’ll be warmer with a full suit (which is appealing since I hate cold water!), but I’m worried there are some races I would get overheated in using a full. Any opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I’m probably going down to get one on Friday. thanks, Brad

Response:

Do the long john……it is much more versatile…. cheers! Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to decide which type of wet suit to buy.  A QR full suit or a long john.  I did my first tri last September and didn’t need a wet suit.  This year I’m doing a handful of them.  Specifically I’m starting out the season doing the Columbia Triathlon, which I know I’ll need a wet suit.  Since all of the races I’m doing will be within couple of hours of the Washington/Baltimore area I’m thinking I might be better off just getting a long john since most of the water temps are reasonable.  Of course I know I’ll be warmer with a full suit (which is appealing since I hate cold water!), but I’m worried there are some races I would get overheated in using a full. Any opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I’m probably going down to get one on Friday. thanks, Brad

Response:

I have raced in both a QR fullsuit and Long John, and believe the fullsuit is faster, and not too warm in most conditions. At the Orange County nationals two years ago, I showed up with my wetsuit only to learn that the water was too warm and they would not be allowed. If you wore one, you would not be eligible for a podium position. My problem is that I didn’t bring a bathing suit since I had planned to wear my cycling shorts under the wetsuit and ride and run in them. Bad planning – I had been warned that the water might be too warm. Anyway . . .  Since I wasn’t going to ever make it to the podium, and since I didn’t want to swim in my cycling shorts, I wore the wetsuit. I did not overheat at all, even with water temp around 75 degrees. And by the way, thanks to the rubber, swam substantially faster than most of the field I did take a lot of "heat" from the other racers, though, and don’t plan on ever making this mistake again. As you might guess, I didn’t make the podium so no one really cared. Brian Sullivan

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Long John In extremely cold water (50-54 degrees), I use the full suit for training. On race day, if the water is still that cold, I will use the Long John.  No racing in Full Suits for me. This, from 6 years of experience.

Response:

As a rock fish, I like the fullsuit for anything 1500 meters and up.  Its a real confidence thing.  Overheating has not been a problem even in summer lakes around 70 degrees.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to decide which type of wet suit to buy.  A QR full suit or a long john.  I did my first tri last September and didn’t need a wet suit.  This year I’m doing a handful of them.  Specifically I’m starting out the season doing the Columbia Triathlon, which I know I’ll need a wet suit.  Since all of the races I’m doing will be within couple of hours of the Washington/Baltimore area I’m thinking I might be better off just getting a long john since most of the water temps are reasonable.  Of course I know I’ll be warmer with a full suit (which is appealing since I hate cold water!), but I’m worried there are some races I would get overheated in using a full. Any opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I’m probably going down to get one on Friday. thanks, Brad

  I agree that the long john is more versatile and also agree that the full suit is faster – a lot faster. I  pr’ed my 1/2 IM swim at Gulf Coast last year by six minutes using a full suit vs. a long john in previous years. BTW the water temp was 77 degrees and I didn’t overheat at all. I also hate cold water and in florida, cold is anything under 80. Cheers, Bernie Sher

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Question:

I think that for the layperson, one can use tire and wheel interchangeably and this is where the confusion came from. Cheers, Walter R. Strapps – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just saw IMH98 for the first time on Sunday. Am I going blind, or the announcers stupid with respect to Jurgen Zack on his bike leg. When he flated the announcers said several times he didn’t have a replacement for his tire on the bike and Jurgen pedaled slowly waiting for the support wagon. Darn if I didn’t appear to see on the back of his seat several times a folded up tubular tire or did I????? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Jurgen sustained rim damage when he flated, that is why he continued to ride until a replacement wheel showed up. They say it might have been his best Ironman finish ever, I’d have to agree, he may have lost the race, but he proved to the world that he has a lot of heart, and a great attitude towards the race. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just saw IMH98 for the first time on Sunday. Am I going blind, or the announcers stupid with respect to Jurgen Zack on his bike leg. When he flated the announcers said several times he didn’t have a replacement for his tire on the bike and Jurgen pedaled slowly waiting for the support wagon. Darn if I didn’t appear to see on the back of his seat several times a folded up tubular tire or did I????? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Hey,   you will see a picture of me on this near the end.  I’m leaning against a coconut tree next to Missy La Strange wearing a yellow winners shirt.  Check it out.  Pretty cool but don’t blink. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMH 98 is scheduled to be rebroadcast at 2 ET on nbc, Sunday 7/25.  it’ the two hour anniversary show. todd sandiego

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IMH 98 is scheduled to be rebroadcast at 2 ET on nbc, Sunday 7/25.  it’ the two hour anniversary show. todd sandiego

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Yeah, thanks to you posting this and coach Troy tapering me for Ironman, I had the time to spend half of the afternoon sobbing in front of my TV. Was a damned good prep for IMUSA in a few weeks though. That swim start looks exactly like my worst nightmare. Schwing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMH 98 is scheduled to be rebroadcast at 2 ET on nbc, Sunday 7/25.  it’ the two hour anniversary show. todd sandiego

Response:

Just saw IMH98 for the first time on Sunday. Am I going blind, or the announcers stupid with respect to Jurgen Zack on his bike leg. When he flated the announcers said several times he didn’t have a replacement for his tire on the bike and Jurgen pedaled slowly waiting for the support wagon. Darn if I didn’t appear to see on the back of his seat several times a folded up tubular tire or did I????? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I seem to recall NBC plans to air IMH on Dec 15th. Is this correct? Gotta send out invitations. Eric Averill

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Dec 20th. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I seem to recall NBC plans to air IMH on Dec 15th. Is this correct? Gotta send out invitations. Eric Averill

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I heard it was 20 Dec at 4-6pm EST. Jeanette Howard

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what is IMH?

Response:

what is IMH?

IronMan Hawaii Kevin Medlin

Response:

Ironman Hawaii–The Ironman World Triathlon Championship. what is IMH?

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

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Ironman Hawaii–The Ironman World Triathlon Championship. what is IMH? Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

Rick, I’m not sure if you are allowed to use "World Championship" in any way, shape or form.  THe ITU will be sendings its goons after you.

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In article s.net I’m not sure if you are allowed to use "World Championship" in any way, shape or form.  THe ITU will be sendings its goons after you.

Yes, you may.  The evil word du jour is t…….n. So this year the official name is Hawaii Ironman World Championship, but we may not confess of what sport it is a championship. Ruth Kazez

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Ironman Hawaii–The Ironman World Triathlon Championship. what is IMH? Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest. Rick, I’m not sure if you are allowed to use "World Championship" in any way, shape or form.  THe ITU will be sendings its goons after you.

It’ll be interesting to see whether NBC comments on the legal pig-wrestle that’s going on.  Interestingly, I read the full text of the suit a few weeks ago…they (WTC) continually refer to ITU as "ITU Cartel."  he-he-he!! Augie Calabrese

Response:

In article s.net I’m not sure if you are allowed to use "World Championship" in any way, shape or form.  THe ITU will be sendings its goons after you. Yes, you may.  The evil word du jour is t…….n. So this year the official name is Hawaii Ironman World Championship, but we may not confess of what sport it is a championship. Ruth Kazez

I believe the problem arises when using both words together…Ironman Triathlon World Championship. They were given the choice of Ironman Triathlon Championship or Ironman World Championship. ITU even refuses to refer to them as World Triathlon Corporation, instead calling them "the Ironman Corporation". Let the lawyers sort this mess out. It’s all pretty stupid on the ITU’s part if you ask me. I’d like to see some proof that the IOC actually insisted on this kind of nonsense to insure inclusion in the Olympics. Cheers, Andrew — Andrew Peabody Miami

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me about the Nehama Ridge triathlon in Edmond, Ok?  I don’t have my Inside Triathlon with me but if memory serves it’s in late July and has both an International Distance race and a 1/2 IM – correct? Having lived in the area for a while when I was much younger I guess I could make some assumptions about it; flat, windy, hot??  Where’s the swim?  Well directed? Thanks for anything.

Response:

Can anyone tell me about the Nehama Ridge triathlon in Edmond, Ok?  I don’t have my Inside Triathlon with me but if memory serves it’s in late July and has both an International Distance race and a 1/2 IM – correct? Having lived in the area for a while when I was much younger I guess I could make some assumptions about it; flat, windy, hot??  Where’s the swim?  Well directed? Thanks for anything.

The race is July 19. Yes, there are both distances. Contact Mike Flanagan 405-946-4895 Can’t help you with the course decript. , I just always have Inside Tri. in my back pocket! BIG PIG

Response:

Your assumptions are correct. It is always hot(90-100degees), humid, hilly, and you know Oklahoma is always windy. This is a killer course. It is one of the most physically challenging courses I have done.  What I remember most vividly is the run. The first half of the run is up a steady grade then it drops down behind the lake’s dam. The hill climbing out of that hole is long and steep and a lot of the athletes have to walk at this point. I guess the best part is the run back is slightly downhill. Dispite it’s level of difficulty it is a very well put on race. I would highly recommend it.   Rob Chance, Tulsa, OK

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I love this race.  I have raced there a couple time. Don’t forget you race down Route 66!

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Where in OK is this race.  I’ll be in SW Missouri about that time, and would love to skip out on a day of a reunion with the in-laws for a good race….. Tim

Response:

Question:

stuff deleted  (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff) Who is Ted Williams?   Aaarrrgghh. I hope you said that in jest. He’s the last player to hit .400 for a season……  what is with this baseball crap?  isn’t this rec.sport.triathlon?  Maybe

we should name it rec.sport.triathlon/baseball/quelque chose — Logan Heinrich "Tri-Weasel" **No matter how hot or cold it is in the room it is still room temperature**

Response:

Just returned from The Big Island and sure enough, Dave was riding the Carbonframes Tetra Tri we made for him in ‘94.  It was painted blue and had Huffy stickers on it.  It had stickers from his other sponsers too. I’m not sure if Huffy got the TV coverage they were looking for, Dave was back around 20th place coming off the bike.  Then he ran hard to 5th place.  It was amazing.  At the award banquet, he said it was his last race.  That will make it the 3rd time he said he was done.  He’ll probably be back. Craig Calfee Carbonframes, Inc  Santa Cruz, CA

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stuff deleted  (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff) Who is Ted Williams?   Aaarrrgghh. I hope you said that in jest. He’s the last player to hit .400 for a season……  whippersnapper. TriBop .400 ??? Paulo, .400 means getting a hit in baseball and successfully reaching first base or better 400 times per 1000 at bats. Usually .300 is seen as the benchmark for differentiating between good batters and also not so good batters. Several batters over the years have flirted with .400 averages or better but always feel short as the season came to a close. — Marcus Perry "TriDork" ** Give whenever you CAN…..Take only when you HAVE to. ** ** M. Perry     circa 1980 **

Sorry, but what’s first base??? I’m really teasing… Paulo

Response:

Just returned from The Big Island and sure enough, Dave was riding the Carbonframes Tetra Tri we made for him in ‘94.  It was painted blue and had Huffy stickers on it.  It had stickers from his other sponsers too. I’m not sure if Huffy got the TV coverage they were looking for, Dave was back around 20th place coming off the bike.  Then he ran hard to 5th place.  It was amazing.  At the award banquet, he said it was his last race.  That will make it the 3rd time he said he was done.  He’ll probably be back. Craig Calfee Carbonframes, Inc  Santa Cruz, CA

My friend was there and said Dave got a standing ovation for fifth place.  Bigger ovation that the winner received!  Another great competitor who will be sorely missed for both his athletic ability and personality.

Response:

I’m sort of curious as to what Huffy is hoping to get out of their relationship with Dave Scott.  Are they planning on manufacturing a new line of performance bikes?

Huffy has a new line of Ironman mountain bikes (nothing in the high end area). Marty

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Mark Allen sported a Huffy in 1992 Ironman victory, I think.  The was four years ago.  I don’t know how envolved Huffy has been with tri’s since.

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Marty writes: Just thought I’d drop in a note of support for Huffy.  The frame builder

responsible for Dave’s bike has many years experience building high end racing frames, including Mark Allen’s Huffy from seceral years back.  I’m sure Dave will like the biike, just as I’m certain he like his old CarbonFrame.< Yes, Mike Melton built the frames for Huffy and he knows carbon fiber. The curves are nicely shaped and I’ve only heard of one breaking.  It’s not a production bike and I don’t think it fits Dave as well. It doesn’t really matter, I hope he does well on any bike. Craig Calfee Carbonframes, Inc  Santa Cruz, CA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sort of curious as to what Huffy is hoping to get out of their relationship with Dave Scott.  Are they planning on manufacturing a new line of performance bikes? As far as I know, right now they only make low end bikes that are sold at discount and toy stores.  I doubt that the people Huffy markets to are likely to watch the Ironman.  Even if Dave was to somehow blow by all the Germans on the bike saturday, I would not be tempted to run down to the K-Mart to size up a shiny new Huffy to replace my Tetra-Pro.  As far as I know, he will be riding a custom built frame that will have Huffy markings.  This is a far cry from 94, when the Carbonframes that he rode was the same one that is being sold to the tri market.  When I had the opportunity to purchase a second hand Carbonframes last year, the first thing I thought of was that this was what Dave Scott was riding.  I was unfamiliar with the brand, and that helped give it instant credibility (in my view), and led me to research it out more thoroughly.

Excellent points, Chuck! Along these same lines, didn’t Mark Allen ride a Huffy-labelled machine in Kona a few years back?  And I know that back in the mid-to-late ’80s Greg LeMond’s La Vie Claire cycling team road Huffy-labelled bikes, though we all know perfectly well there’s no way those were actually Huffies! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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The Mark Allen bike was made by Huffy, and from what I recall you could buy the same frame for something like $10,000!  Huffy even obtained a patent on the frame Mark rode.  Dave Scott’s bike this year is also being made by Huffy.  As for LeMond’s team, I don’t know the details, but suspect they were also made at the Huffy plant.  They do have some great frame builders there with lots of performance bike experience.  I’m working on them to see if they’ll get back into the performance bike field, but don’t count on it. Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark Allen sported a Huffy in 1992 Ironman victory, I think.  The was four years ago.  I don’t know how envolved Huffy has been with tri’s since.

Response:

The Mark Allen bike was made by Huffy, and from what I recall you could buy the same frame for something like $10,000!  Huffy even obtained a patent on the frame Mark rode.  Dave Scott’s bike this year is also being made by Huffy.  As for LeMond’s team, I don’t know the details, but suspect they were also made at the Huffy plant.  They do have some great frame builders there with lots of performance bike experience.  I’m working on them to see if they’ll get back into the performance bike field, but don’t count on it.

I’m confused!  Huffy employs "some great frame builders with lots of performance bike experience."  So what do those great frame builders DO most of the time if Huffy is *not* "back into the performance bike field"?  Why would a great frame builder work for a company that only produces toy/department store bikes, and once every couple of years puts out a custom, tricked out frame for some famous athlete?   And as someone else pointed out, what on earth does Huffy gain out of sponsoring elite athletes when the vast majority of their customer base hasn’t a clue what a triathlon or the Tour de France may be? Not that any of this actually matters, but I don’t get it…. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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And as someone else pointed out, what on earth does Huffy gain out of sponsoring elite athletes when the vast majority of their customer base hasn’t a clue what a triathlon or the Tour de France may be?

Trish – Add this to clueless marketing types: * Purina puts a coupon for dog food in the 45 LB BAG of Pro Plan I bought for my Dal. Now – when somebody buys the 45 lb’er, that should be an indicator that product loyalty has been established. * And the greatest IMHO, friend of mine comments that she is looking forward to going to the TIMEX Ironman Canada with me because she wants to buy a new TIMEX watch. TIMEX had no booth selling their Ironman watches at an event where they were the title sponsor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And as someone else pointed out, what on earth does Huffy gain out of sponsoring elite athletes when the vast majority of their customer base hasn’t a clue what a triathlon or the Tour de France may be? Trish – Add this to clueless marketing types: * Purina puts a coupon for dog food in the 45 LB BAG of Pro Plan I bought for my Dal. Now – when somebody buys the 45 lb’er, that should be an indicator that product loyalty has been established. * And the greatest IMHO, friend of mine comments that she is looking forward to going to the TIMEX Ironman Canada with me because she wants to buy a new TIMEX watch. TIMEX had no booth selling their Ironman watches at an event where they were the title sponsor.

Au contrair…TIMEX did have a booth at IMC!  It wasn’t huge, but it was there.  Also, I think that they were raffling free watches.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Mark Allen bike was made by Huffy, and from what I recall you could buy the same frame for something like $10,000!  Huffy even obtained a patent on the frame Mark rode.  Dave Scott’s bike this year is also being made by Huffy.  As for LeMond’s team, I don’t know the details, but suspect they were also made at the Huffy plant.  They do have some great frame builders there with lots of performance bike experience.  I’m working on them to see if they’ll get back into the performance bike field, but don’t count on it. I’m confused!  Huffy employs "some great frame builders with lots of performance bike experience."  So what do those great frame builders DO most of the time if Huffy is *not* "back into the performance bike field"?  Why would a great frame builder work for a company that only produces toy/department store bikes, and once every couple of years puts out a custom, tricked out frame for some famous athlete? And as someone else pointed out, what on earth does Huffy gain out of sponsoring elite athletes when the vast majority of their customer base hasn’t a clue what a triathlon or the Tour de France may be? Not that any of this actually matters, but I don’t get it…. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie

It seems that whoever these mysterious expert framebuilders are, that they should take their corporate sponsored research and start their own company. — All comments and opinions expressed are those of my employer and not my own.  Please sue them and leave me out of it. Tod Meinke

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Actually it is not uncommon for department stores to attach big names to mass market items (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff) Who is Ted Williams? —

Aaarrrgghh. I hope you said that in jest. He’s the last player to hit .400 for a season……  whippersnapper. :-} TriBop WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities   http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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stuff deleted  (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff) Who is Ted Williams?

  Aaarrrgghh. I hope you said that in jest. He’s the last player to hit .400 for a season……  whippersnapper. TriBop .400 ???

Paulo, .400 means getting a hit in baseball and successfully reaching first base or better 400 times per 1000 at bats. Usually .300 is seen as the benchmark for differentiating between good batters and also not so good batters. Several batters over the years have flirted with .400 averages or better but always feel short as the season came to a close. — Marcus Perry "TriDork" ** Give whenever you CAN…..Take only when you HAVE to. ** ** M. Perry     circa 1980 **

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I’m sort of curious as to what Huffy is hoping to get out of their relationship with Dave Scott.  Are they planning on manufacturing a new line of performance bikes?

Doubt they are planning a new line of bikes.  Believe it or not, by using Scott’s name, they will sell bikes.  Even though the average shopper has no idea who Dave Scott is, the Ironman has some recognition. Further, most people are STUPID and will believe whatever advertisement is attached to a product.  (i.e. The Grapefruit Diet, Abisolator, Sonic Toothbrush, and the variety of pills sold at GNC, etc.) As an example, I know someone who owns a Bicylce Shop.  When people are looking at two identical $300.00 bikes, Brand X and GT, but can’t make up their mind, or might leave without buying either, the salemen simply point out that GT made the Olympic Bikes.  Viola!  Bike sold. Huffy will gain sales in a similar nature. Failure Is Not The Inability To Succeed;         Rather, The Unwillingness To Put Forth The Effort.                 Just Tri iT!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually it is not uncommon for department stores to attach big names to mass market items (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff) Who is Ted Williams? — Aaarrrgghh. I hope you said that in jest. He’s the last player to hit .400 for a season……  whippersnapper. :-} TriBop WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

.400 ???

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Actually it is not uncommon for department stores to attach big names to mass market items (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff)

Who is Ted Williams? — Logan Heinrich "Tri-Weasel" **Things turn out best for those that make the best of the way things turn out**

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OK, now that Mike Melton’s name is officially out there, I will second his expertise (I do have a somewhat biased opinion, however).  Now that he finished Dave’s bike I need to call him and see if he’ll build ME a frame for next season!  I would glady race on a huffy as long as it was built by Mike.  Occasionally I see an old Melton frame (he used to be on his own) around the bike shops in southern Ohio.  If you like the old classic steel racing frames, his were the best. Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m confused!  Huffy employs "some great frame builders with lots of performance bike experience."  So what do those great frame builders DO It seems that whoever these mysterious expert framebuilders are, that they should take their corporate sponsored research and start their own company. The R&D guy at Huffy who designed and built Mark Allen’s bike, the ‘84 Olympic bikes for timed racing, and who will build Dave’s bikes, is Mike Melton.  Very smart guy. But Craig Calfee was right about Dave bringing his Carbonframes to Hawaii.  Dave apparently IS going to ride this in the race, with Huffy decals. QRman

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Along these same lines, didn’t Mark Allen ride a Huffy-labelled machine in Kona a few years back?  And I know that back in the mid-to-late ’80s Greg LeMond’s La Vie Claire cycling team road Huffy-labelled bikes, though we all know perfectly well there’s no way those were actually Huffies! Tri-Baby

What?  You mean that’s not the same bike I bought at K-Mart?   ;-} Kind of like the Chevy truck commercial running right now that harps on their success in the new NASCAR "Truck" Racing series. Those are fiber shells on top of a 100% pure racing chasis. There’s not a part on ‘em that’s production. TriBop WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Beginner’s FAQ, Software Download the WebRunner Racing Utilities   http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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And as someone else pointed out, what on earth does Huffy gain out of sponsoring elite athletes when the vast majority of their customer base hasn’t a clue what a triathlon or the Tour de France may be?

Tricia:     Huffy must be betting the ranch (and probably the company) that "Ironman Triathlon" and "Dave Scott" has transcended the sphere of triathletes and fitness freaks into the world of K-Martia. Consider this: unsophisticated bike buyer wants to buy a bike (probably as a gift to their child) who knows only of Schwinn as a bike manufacturer. So off to the department store we go to check-out the bikes. Obviously price is going to be the primo #1 discriminating factor in chosing a bike (believe it or not, the majority of americana still believes that $100 is an exhorbitant price to pay for a bike). In the department store, after getting over bike price sticker shock (no they don’t cost $30 anymore and Schwinn is conspicuously absent). The only research this buyer will do is to check prices at a few department stores. Then there it is! above a shiny new Huffy psuedo-mountain bike is a picture of Dave Scott 7-time Ironman winner riding a Huffy. Buyer says AHA, if Dave Scott rides it, it must be good! instant name recognition for Huffy and its bike sells while the Murray collects dust. Also considering that department stores quite often sell only one brand of bikes, this can lead to considerable sales leverage for that brand also. Assuming the first sentence is correct, I would quite expect Huffy to benefit considerably more from this than Carbonframes has. Actually it is not uncommon for department stores to attach big names to mass market items (e.g. Sears uses Ted Williams for its baseball stuff) and perhaps this is an indication that triathlon does have mass market recognition. Bill

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I’m confused!  Huffy employs "some great frame builders with lots of performance bike experience."  So what do those great frame builders DO It seems that whoever these mysterious expert framebuilders are, that they should take their corporate sponsored research and start their own company.

The R&D guy at Huffy who designed and built Mark Allen’s bike, the ‘84 Olympic bikes for timed racing, and who will build Dave’s bikes, is Mike Melton.  Very smart guy. But Craig Calfee was right about Dave bringing his Carbonframes to Hawaii.  Dave apparently IS going to ride this in the race, with Huffy decals. QRman

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(stuff deleted) As for LeMond’s team, I don’t know the details, but suspect they were also made at the Huffy plant.

Actually, from 1991 to 1994 the bikes that Lemond and his team rode were made by Carbonframes and marketed under the Lemond name.  In fact, after Lemond and Carbonframes went their separate ways, Greg was seen riding a Carbonframes bike in the Tour DuPont despite the fact that the carbon bikes his company was selling was made by Mitsubishi. Chuck Berghoefer

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I’m sort of curious as to what Huffy is hoping to get out of their relationship with Dave Scott.  Are they planning on manufacturing a new line of performance bikes? As far as I know, right now they only make low end bikes that are sold at discount and toy stores.  I doubt that the people Huffy markets to are likely to watch the Ironman.  Even if Dave was to somehow blow by all the Germans on the bike saturday, I would not be tempted to run down to the K-Mart to size up a shiny new Huffy to replace my Tetra-Pro.  As far as I know, he will be riding a custom built frame that will have Huffy markings.  This is a far cry from 94, when the Carbonframes that he rode was the same one that is being sold to the tri market.  When I had the opportunity to purchase a second hand Carbonframes last year, the first thing I thought of was that this was what Dave Scott was riding.  I was unfamiliar with the brand, and that helped give it instant credibility (in my view), and led me to research it out more thoroughly. Chuck Berghoefer

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QRMan writes: Craig, I’ve been a fan of your frames for years, you make wonderful stuff.  But not that wonderful.  We , and a billion other companies, were asked to make an offer on the contract he did with you, and also the one with Huffy, and we’ve been approached on various wetsuit deals before that.  The fact is you’re not a cash cow any longer, so you’re off the back.

Are you telling me that not one of those billion companies nor yourself felt that Dave was a good bet for at least getting your money s worth of exposure?  Was it that risky?  Maybe it was a negotiating tactic, but we were told the the man was turning down other, more lucrative offers because he really felt the Carbonframes was the best he d tried and he wanted  no excuses . Carbonframes a cash cow?  If we were ever a cash cow then I ve seriously underestimated the financial liquidity of the rest of the bike industry. It is nice to know he brought his Carbonframes Tetra Tri as a spare, just in case something goes wrong with the Huffy.  If he ends up using it, He’ll have to put Huffy stickers on it.  I don’t know if I could bear to look! This part makes me gag.  You’re over the top here.

Yes, I should be more professional but why does it have to be Huffy?!   The original reason LeMond wanted to get into selling bikes was to have the best equipment possible   The LeMond thing was different.  From everything I could glean, he really DID fall in love with your road race bikes.  So although regarding Dave your post above is a valient effort at spin, you have a valid claim with regard to LeMond.  You absolutely hit the big time with the press you got

.off LeMond using your bikes.  And that’s what’s germaine to this thread. I BELIEVED the stuff about LeMond loving your road race bike, and so did everyone else.  If LeMond would have just ridden your bikes instead of wanting to be in the bike business himself, you’d now have your own marketshare plus all of Kestrel’s.

Probably true.  But now that LeMond s owned by Trek and they are using pictures of Greg riding a Carbonframes to promote the OCLV, it kind of frustrates me.  Oh well, that s business, right? Craig Calfee Carbonframes, Inc  Santa Cruz, CA

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Question:

Here’s an after the fact academic question about the qualifying criteria for the USAT Nationals.  According to the web page you must qualify from "another event": Top 25% in age group at "non-championship sanctioned events" or Top 33.3% in age group at "regional championship event" The second criteria does not have the word sanctioned.  But then again this is just a "thumbnail" document. The San Diego International Triathlon (held 6/2/96)appears in the race calendar on the USAT Web page.  There’s a writeup on the race in the "road show" section of the page.  The race had what I had assumed was a self-designation of "Pacific Rim Championships".  But there was no requirement for a USAT license to participate in the race (I am a USAT member).  I do know that USAT (TriFed) licenses were required in the race when I did it in a relay some years ago (1991). I did not see any particular statement or logo in the SD Int’l literature indicating that it was USAT sanctioned (doesn’t mean it wasn’t there). Was it sanctioned?  Was it really a "championship"? The reason I ask is that in the preliminary results I saw on the web, I somehow finished 25th out of 85 identified M35-39 entries.  There were a number of finishers ahead of me (and behind me) with no age data, but not so many that it would preclude me just maybe ending up in the top 33% of my age group.  At the time it did not occur to me that this might mean I had qualified to race at Orange County.   So, was it a "championship" level qualifying race?  Was it a qualifying race at all?  Assuming my 30th percentile finish held up, could I have coughed up the late fee dough, and corrupted my distance training with a few hours of anaerobic self flagellation session in the championship nationals race?  Is this all revealed in the last issue of Triathlon Times which is buried somewhere in a pile of magazines in my house?  Does anybody care? (I know the answer to that one Wade Blomgren

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So, was it a "championship" level qualifying race?  Was it a qualifying race at all?  Assuming my 30th percentile finish held up, could I have coughed up the late fee dough, and corrupted my distance training with a few hours of anaerobic self flagellation session in the championship nationals race?  

I suspect they would have gladly taken your $70, plus late fee. I doubt they did much research to make sure people did "qualify." Cesar "just barely made it into the race" Valverde

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I suspect they would have gladly taken your $70, plus late fee. I doubt they did much research to make sure people did "qualify."

No need to suspect, Cesar, they didn’t check. Eric

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Question:

dave announced that he will not be doing hawaii.  dropped weights on toe during the winter and got hit by a car this spring.  doesn’t think he can be his best due to these setbacks.  maybe next year.  he looks great!!!!!

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I know this has been asked before, but am just wondering if anyone knows if Dave has made a decision or not on Hawaii?  Any of you Colorado folks know what’s happening out there in Boulder?  Has he disappeared for the fabled build-up? Will he be in our area at the Mrs. T’s Expo this year? Let us know!!!  Thanks.  Mark

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Dave will be at the Chicago Tri Championship.  He will be working a booth at the expo for one of his sponsors.  As to his race plans, I’m sure he would be willing to talk about them.

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Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Dave will be at the Chicago Tri Championship.  He will be working a booth at the expo for one of his sponsors.  As to his race plans, I’m sure he would be willing to talk about them.

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Question:

The front cover of this months "Triathlete" has Spencer Smith with a QR Kilo slung over his shoulder.  The Kilo is emerald green.  It’s very nice but when I bought mine (Dec 94′) I thought they only came in blue, red and black.  Not that I mind – I like my black one just fine  But I was curious.  Was Mr. Smiths painted differently for a reason (as if being particularly fast isn’t a reason) or can the average age grouper specify a particular color if they’d like?  Mr. Empfield?

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: The front cover of this months "Triathlete" has Spencer Smith with a QR : Kilo slung over his shoulder.  The Kilo is emerald green.  It’s very nice : but when I bought mine (Dec 94′) I thought they only came in blue, red and : black.  Not that I mind – I like my black one just fine  But I was : curious.  Was Mr. Smiths painted differently for a reason (as if being : particularly fast isn’t a reason) or can the average age grouper specify a : particular color if they’d like?  Mr. Empfield? I noticed the wheels on his steed, The Specialized ones. I think they only make a 700c model (according to the article inside, but we all know how accurate that could be). I remember (hey I survived the 60’s and70’s) that QRman once said they only make bikes for 26" wheels. I could be completely wrong anywhere along this alleged thought, but maybe the Lizard Green (my description) wasn’t the only custom thing about Spencers bike. How come the mag didn’t have an article about SS? Even penthouse has a word or two about their cover person. (so I’m told) QRman can you tell us more? Triathlete apparently won’t. Also how come your wetsuits in the same mag appear to be two tone in the picture? Is this th new model or quoi? TriDork Marcus Perry

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My apologies to those of you that read this post.  I just received a copy of "Californias Best" and they are selling Kilos in blue, red, black – and yes green.  So there is nothing all that interesting about noting that Mr. Smith has a green one (aside from the fact that he has good taste in Bikes and colors ). Happy training. Bob (who is starting to taper for St. Croix and having nightly sweats about "The Beast").

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<<: The front cover of this months "Triathlete" has Spencer Smith with a QR <<: Kilo slung over his shoulder.  The Kilo is emerald green.   They come in green now too. <<I noticed the wheels on his steed, The Specialized ones. They now come in 26". <<How come the mag didn’t have an article about SS? I imagine it’s coming.  He just won again this past weekend in Australia, over Ben Bright, Miles Stewart, et al, by about two minutes. <<Also how come your wetsuits in the same mag appear to be two tone in the <<picture? Is this th new model or quoi? Hydrophobics come in all black, or black and silver. QRman

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I noticed the wheels on his steed, The Specialized ones. I think they only make a 700c model (according to the article inside, but we all know how accurate that could be). I remember (hey I survived the 60’s and70’s)

I may also be wrong, however, some of Team Motorola’s TT bikes seam to be sporting 26" Specializeds front wheels.So it seams as if Specialized might be experimenting with the smaller wheel diameter. —arr—

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Beer, English coach and Ironman triathlete, has developed a quick, reliable, low stress method to detect Overtraining using CompuTrainer. Joe is using the "Ramp Test" with great success with Eric Harr, top ranking rookie triathlete on the 1994 Pro Tour.  It has also been tested by CompuTrainer training advisor and coach Joe Friel (both on himself and his son, Dirk, a pro bike racer) who has found it also to be highly reliable.  An article about the test will appear in the June issue of Inside Triathlon magazine. The "Ramp Test" is a simple, sub-maximal test that takes less than 15 minutes.  It involves riding CompuTrainer in the Ergometer mode for 3 minutes each at 100 watts, 150 watts, 200 watts, and 250 watts and recording  the heartrate at each load level.  The test is conducted at least once a week or more often if desired.  If the heartrates are stable or declining, your training schedule can be maintained as planned.  If the heartrates increase, overtraining is indicated and more recovery is needed. A Ramp Test protocol is being added to the CompuTrainer Workout Manual which already contains a Conconi Test, Power Test, Aerobic Time Trial Test plus 19 different workouts. For a free video describing CompuTrainer’s features, e-mail your request

You can’t be serious detecting overtraining is way more complicated than a simple submaximal step test.  Stop trying to find a simple solution to a problem which cause hasn’t even been found out yet.

Response:

Joe Beer, English coach and Ironman triathlete, has developed a quick, reliable, low stress method to detect Overtraining using CompuTrainer. Joe is using the "Ramp Test" with great success with Eric Harr, top ranking rookie triathlete on the 1994 Pro Tour.  It has also been tested by CompuTrainer training advisor and coach Joe Friel (both on himself and his son, Dirk, a pro bike racer) who has found it also to be highly reliable.  An article about the test will appear in the June issue of Inside Triathlon magazine. The "Ramp Test" is a simple, sub-maximal test that takes less than 15 minutes.  It involves riding CompuTrainer in the Ergometer mode for 3 minutes each at 100 watts, 150 watts, 200 watts, and 250 watts and recording  the heartrate at each load level.  The test is conducted at least once a week or more often if desired.  If the heartrates are stable or declining, your training schedule can be maintained as planned.  If the heartrates increase, overtraining is indicated and more recovery is needed. A Ramp Test protocol is being added to the CompuTrainer Workout Manual which already contains a Conconi Test, Power Test, Aerobic Time Trial Test plus 19 different workouts. For a free video describing CompuTrainer’s features, e-mail your request

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Question:

Hello,   My friends and I are planning on entering a triathlon this spring to mark our graduation from college.   We would appreciate any information on shorter-range events in New England (we’re in Connecticut).   Thanks,   Colin Savage

Response:

 We would appreciate any information on shorter-range events in New England (we’re in Connecticut).

There are several triathlons in CT.  My experience is limited to only  a few .  I don’t know the dates offhand, but these are my best guesses. Distances are also from memory. There are also a lot of NETS series races in Mass.  These are pretty well publicized. Chester Tiny (!) Triathlon              0.5k / 10k /5k                   Late June        Chester Southingon YMCA Triathlon      0.5 mi / 12 mi / 3.1 mi        Mid July       Southington Pat Griskus Triathlon                  0.5 mi / 10.5 mi /3.1 mi       Mid July        Waterbury(?) Milford Triathlon                        1.0k / 20k / 9k                    Early August   Milford Chuck’ Triathlon                          1.0 mi / 25 mi. / 6 mi.         Early Sept.      Danbury Also, Orange Duathlon                            5k / 40k / 5k  (?)               Late June       Orange Dinosaur Duathlon                       2.2 mi. / 16 mi. /2.4mi       Early Oct.      Rocky Hill Have fun.

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