Question:

I spend 3 days a week in cardiac rehab with low cholesterol guys…Mine is 126 overall…..66 LDL, 60 triglycerides, 38 HDL, BP 86/53  - can’t beat those numbers. It’s the stress test that you need to do….don’t underestimate the importance of this test. I did…and caught a bad heart condition just in time. I’m back on track (thank God). Wait a year and I may join you! are worrying about my cardiovascular – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – health, relax, I will check with the doc, though I don’t expect a problem, as my cholesterol has been uniformly low, and my blood pressure has always been pretty good as well.  The main thing I need to do is toughen up.  I’m not _that_ old.  (I’m 49)

Response:

I’m considering driving a little farther.  There might be some possible climbs in Shenadoah National Park (Old Rag Mountain come to mind), though some of these start getting to be a bit of a drive from Baltimore for a day trip.)  Any other good climbs in the northern part of the park would be appreciated.  Then there’s Signal Knob on Masanutten Mountain, that’s a nice 10-mile circuit with a good climb.

  Try Old Rag with a load….maybe 5 gallons of water in secured plastic jugs. The water can be thrown off at any time. I usually get rid of it at the top before the climb down.   Also, as someone mentioned, keep your age in view and consider a good stress test with your doctor. Some middle-age guys do themselves in this way.

Response:

  Try Old Rag with a load….maybe 5 gallons of water in secured plastic jugs. The water can be thrown off at any time. I usually get rid of it at the top before the climb down.

  Oh, also. Riding a bike (road or gym) is a valuable exercise for hiking preparation. The leg movements with bike riding closely match those used in mountain hiking. Some of the Everest teams depended heavily on this type of training.

Response:

So, does this look reasonable?

Well, I’m jealous.  I’ve never had the chance… Now for the training/  A lot of this comes from triathlon/endurance stuff, so take it with a grain of salt.  Then again, I’ve spent the last year training with a guy who is doing the eco-challenge this year, so I’ve learned a lot watching him.  (He is 20 years younger than me, and picked his ancestors far better than I did, so I’m nowhere near his class…) Altitude:  the common wisdom is that you must spend at least two weeks at altitude following a training program for the benefits to remain. Apparently that is long enough to develop lots of smaller blood vessels which then remain with you as long as you keep training.  The key is to pick the right altitude and training program to maximize benefits. Cross-training:  I prefer recumbent bikes.  Recumbents isolate your leg muscles; a conventional bike lets you use your upper body and gravity to do some of the work.  Recumbents are all leg.  Ride a recumbent hard, and your leg strength will increase.  A recumbent will also teach you to relax your upper body, even during great efforts by your legs.  Any bike riding will do, though.  It reduces the stress on your joints while you strengthen muscles. Weight training:  You want to do some weight training to strengthen back, neck, and shoulder muscles.  Lots of reps with light weights.  You don’t want bulk, you want endurance. You may want to get a coach to get specific advice and to guide you through the training.  And the visit to the doctor ain’t a bad idea. -Dondo

Response:

I’ve heard the Kilomarjo hike can be frustrating for the very fit. They deliberately slow it down to 5-6 days so to reduce the number of people who get very altitude sick.

Response:

Being fit doesn’t usually have a lot to do with acclimatization.  Two different things.  But can bet they slow it down a lot for the trail draggers who are not fit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard the Kilomarjo hike can be frustrating for the very fit. They deliberately slow it down to 5-6 days so to reduce the number of people who get very altitude sick.

Response:

Being fit doesn’t usually have a lot to do with acclimatization.  Two different things.  But can bet they slow it down a lot for the trail draggers who are not fit. I’ve heard the Kilomarjo hike can be frustrating for the very fit. They deliberately slow it down to 5-6 days so to reduce the number of people who get very altitude sick.

Group trips are often a compromise for pace and other issues, and more difficult when the group members and leaders have no past experience together or even common reference points. If the pace of a group trip is not to your liking, go by yourself. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Response:

All here are making relevant comments, but let me add a few more. The government in Tanzania requires foreigners to have either a Tanzanian guide, Tanzanian porters, or Tanzanian support when they go into Kilimanjaro National Park. So, you can’t just go purely on your own. It is a make-work program. The Tanzanian people are fairly poor, and they need some revenue. Further, they are pretty tough people, so you can hire them to carry packs, or whatever, fairly cheaply, and that allows the foreign visitor a better shot at surviving the ordeal. Being fit and acclimatizing are two different things. There are world-class athletes who have been taken up to high altitude, and (as a group) they don’t acclimatize worth a damn. On the other hand, "couch potatoes" who are not fit are really struggling to keep up any kind of pace, so they get a huge amount of physical stress and often fail. The folks who do the best at high altitude are those who are in very good physical condition to begin with. Let’s just say they go jogging or biking on a regular basis, and they are weekend climbers of a sort. Let’s just say that they backpack and ski at moderately high elevations, and they can do that regularly without getting sick. Then, put a few years of that sort of experience under the belt, and now you are the perfect candidate to go do Kili and have a good time. When I was on Kili going up the Western Breach Route, we had to contend with old glacier ice covered by a little fresh snow, mixed with gravel and rock. I ended up kicking steps for the porters. But, it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and I recommend it to the original poster. —Bob Gross—

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being fit doesn’t usually have a lot to do with acclimatization.  Two different things.  But can bet they slow it down a lot for the trail draggers who are not fit. I’ve heard the Kilomarjo hike can be frustrating for the very fit. They deliberately slow it down to 5-6 days so to reduce the number of people who get very altitude sick. Group trips are often a compromise for pace and other issues, and more difficult when the group members and leaders have no past experience together or even common reference points. If the pace of a group trip is not to your liking, go by yourself.

Response:

Being fit doesn’t usually have a lot to do with acclimatization.  Two different things.  But can bet they slow it down a lot for the trail draggers who are not fit. I’ve heard the Kilomarjo hike can be frustrating for the very fit. They deliberately slow it down to 5-6 days so to reduce the number of people who get very altitude sick.

The first several European attempts on KJ resulted were fatal failures because they tried to do in a couple days.  Alot of HAPE and HACE.

Response:

Here are two links to a local newspaper in my area that tell the story of a female police office who hiked Kilimanjaro last year. http://www.th-record.com/archive/2001/09/09/bsannmar.htm http://www.th-record.com/archive/2001/11/14/alledcov.htm It sounds like the altitude was the biggest factor she faced. rjc

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.  Aside from wanting to take on the challenge of climbing a really high mountain, I’d like to see snow and ice on the equator before it’s gone forever.  (As per the work of Lonnie Thompson, an ice-core climate scientist from Ohio State University).  While, the logistics of arranging a trip are easy enough (the hardest thing will be to choose the right ouftfitting company), I am a little concerned about getting myself in suitable physical shape. Unfortunately, I’m usually a chairbound desk jockey at work, with the the opportunity to pound the pavements for 30-45 minutes each day at lunch, plus another 40 minutes in total runing between train stations and so forth as part of my daily commute.  Plus, I get some treadmill time at the health club.  This may keep me from being immediate heart-attack bait, but it hasn’t helped my hiking endurance.  A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I tried my 6-mile training loop up at Catoctin National Park.  Fairly well-graded trail, ~1500 feet total vertical (according to Topo!).  I’ve been able to crank it out in ~3 hours with a 10 pound pack and couple of rest stops.  Well, last month when I tried it, my cardivascular endurance was fine (no chest-pounding, no chest pains or anything), but my legs just about turned to jelly on the uphill grind to Hog Rock.  And that with being accompanied by my wife, who walks at a slower pace than I. So naturally, I’m somewhat concerned, and I don’t think I could just hop off the plane and haul my butt up to 19,000 feet in my current condition.  So I’m trying to develop a training plan, which mainly involves hiking, as workouts in the gym bore me to tears, and besides, I’m not sure that I’m working the same muscles as I work on a good mountain hike.  (I do crank the incline on the treadmill to 2%, for whatever that’s worth.)  Unfortunately, I live in Baltimore, and we don’t have a whole bunch of real high butt-kicking mountains to climb close enough for day trips.  So I would appreciate any suggestions on how much training I would need and how intense it has to be. Here is my current plan: Start weekly day hikes:  I have a 6-mile training course at Catoctin, as well as a 9-mile course that’s a little more intense.  But all climbs have less than 1,000 feet (probably less than 800 feet) vertical at a time. I’m considering driving a little farther.  There might be some possible climbs in Shenadoah National Park (Old Rag Mountain come to mind), though some of these start getting to be a bit of a drive from Baltimore for a day trip.)  Any other good climbs in the northern part of the park would be appreciated.  Then there’s Signal Knob on Masanutten Mountain, that’s a nice 10-mile circuit with a good climb. Once I can climb to the top of some of these mountains at a good pace without having may legs theaten to collapse under me, it’s time to try a multiday trip.  Since I’m mostly restricted to weekends, I’m looking for some good places with challenging climbs in George Washington and Mongahela National Forests.  Most of my experience backpacking out there has been that, while there’s a lot of nice remote backcountry, many of the climbs are pretty easy.  But I do have in mind a stretch of the Allegheny Trail that runs north of Cass WV that, on the map, looks like it has some decent up and downs. The next step, now that I will assume that I’m in at least halfway decent shape, is to hit some steeper slopes.  For the east coast, that means I need to hike the glaciated terrain of the Catskills, Adirondacks, or New England.  I could probably swing a weekend trip up to Slide Mountain, but what I really have in my sights would be to do a traverse of the Presidential Range. Finally, I would want to see what happens when I start hiking at altitude.  In the past, I’ve had no trouble dealing with backpacking at 8,000 – 12,000 feet.  Obviously, going up to 19,000 is a whole different experience.   The best I could do would be to head out to Colorado for a week, first spend some time on an 8,000 – 10,000 foot peak, and then try to hit a 14-er.  Any suggestions as to destination would be appreciated. My inclination would be to stay at reasonable altitude in, say, Summit County (a short drive from the Denver airport), and hike around there.  I’m looking for a 14-er that can be walked up, as I have no rock-climbing/alpinist skills. At this point, I suppose I would be at least be fit enough so that the guides and porters on Kilimanjaro don’t laugh at my efforts the first day. So, does this look reasonable?

Response:

In an earlier post, you mentioned traveling to Colorado to get some altitude experience, and mentioned that you had no experience with technical climbing.  You may wish to consider traveling to Washington instead, to get some experience with both under the supervision of mountain guides. See:  http://www.rmiguides.com/ TCR FYOFM (I don’t do too bad for a Fifty Year Old Fat Man)

Thnaks to all for the suggestions.  Loks like I have a bit of work cut out for me, but I think I’m on the right track.  And I may add the stair climber to my treadmill workout starting tonight.

Joe, Baltimore is a tough place to work this from.

<snip rest

Response:

Joe, some years ago I was contacted by some US Army Special Forces guys who intended to go climb Aconcagua. Right away I will tell you that climbing Aconcagua is a whole order of magnitude tougher in my book, in terms of elevation, steepness, and lack of support. Anyway, they wanted advice about training to climb it. I started asking questions, and I got the wrong answers. Although these Army guys were in very fit condition from scuba diving, carrying packs through the woods, jumping out of aircraft, and so forth, they had ZERO high altitude experience, and I isolated that factor as the biggest source of problem for them. I advised them to get out to Colorado, hike up some 14,000-footer, spend two nights, then come back and tell me how it went. Well, they did not want to do that. They didn’t think it was necessary. So, against my advice, they went on training for Aconcagua in the manner that they desired. A few months later, they went. I believe that they were all unsuccessful making it past 21,000 feet, and the only one who was successful right then was some guy from Chile who had previous high altitude experience. There is a message there. Now, I am not trying to scare you to death. Kili is _much_ easier, and you will likely be on some guided climb with lots of support. However, there is a certain percentage of people who go try to do something like Kili, and they are completely out of their league. One, in particular, on my trek. This person had never even slept outside in a tent, for crying out loud! I know you aren’t that bad. Just train with a clear objective in mind. If you can make it out to Colorado, then do it. If you can’t, then make the most of what you can find on the east coast. Get used to being outside for a week or more. Make sure your knees are strong (because after you summit, you have to descend about 9000 feet the same day!). I’ve told others another measure of whether your cardiovascular system is ready. Run for three miles without stopping. You don’t need to run three miles on Kili, but if you can run three miles without stopping, and if you are just normally exhausted at the end, then that is excellent. That means that you have the conditioning to be pushed hard and your body does not fall apart (heart attack or collapse, etc.). I didn’t say that you had to sprint it. But just be able to go continuously. That is the kind of conditioning that will get excellent results when you get up to 18,000 feet or so. If your physician says that you are up to this, then get going. Lastly, just a month before you go to Africa, get a prescription for Diamox. Read up on how it works. —Bob Gross—

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thnaks to all for the suggestions.  Loks like I have a bit of work cut out for me, but I think I’m on the right track.  And I may add the stair climber to my treadmill workout starting tonight.

Response:

Unfortunately, I’m usually a chairbound desk jockey at work, with the the opportunity to pound the pavements for 30-45 minutes each day at lunch, plus another 40 minutes in total runing between train stations and so forth as part of my daily commute.  Plus, I get some treadmill time at the health club.  This may keep me from being immediate heart-attack bait, but it hasn’t helped my hiking endurance.  

I’m afraid Hillary is right.  The only training for mountaineering is mountaineering.   I tried the following routine in the club.   Run or race-walk a couple miles on the treadmill, including a stretch at max elevation.  Go immediately to the stepmill (escalator-type step climber) and do 100 stories (about 1000′) or so.  Then finish with squats and other lower body exercises. I go to do 12 backpacking miles over Piute pass in the eastern Sierra and I’m still leg-stiff-and-sore the next morning. Of course, the extra 35 lbs of backpack weight and 40+ years may have something to do with it. John Reece

Response:

Thnaks to all for the suggestions.  Loks like I have a bit of work cut out for me, but I think I’m on the right track.  And I may add the stair climber to my treadmill workout starting tonight. Joe, Baltimore is a tough place to work this from.

Ah, yes, but I’m diffing though my local trail guides and finding some half- decent climbs, mostly in Virginia. So far I’ve found: Old Rag (Shenandoah National Park) Signal Knob (Masanutten Mountain) Duncan Knob (Masanutten Mountain) Big Schloss (Great North Mountain) Roaring Plains/Mt. Porte Crayon (Mongahela National Forest, climbing up from Laneville, if the trail is still open.  If you hike in from the Dolly Sods Picnic Area it isn’t much of a climb.) Any other suggestions?  (2,000+ feet climbs preferred, day-trips from Baltimore best, but weekend trips within, say 200 miles, are also OK.)  (Can’t do all that much about the altitude, it will either not bother me too much or I’ll conk out.) Like other suggestions here, you have the right ideas, but since we don’t know you, it is difficult to judge whether this makes sense. Go out at 4 AM and hike your six miles and carry twenty pounds of water in your pack.

A wee bit hard, because I’m out of the house on my way to work by 5:30 AM (I work in Washington.). My daily commute includes about 40 minutes of walking, though, I suppose I could put 20 lbs. of water in my backpack.  Not the same as walking a full 6 miles, though. High altitude is the issue. If you have been to 8000-12,000 feet with a backpack, then that is a good sign, but it isn’t enough of an indicator to be sure. Some of us regularly hike up 14,000-foot peaks. Slowly, maybe, but nevertheless, we do them. Comparing performance from one year to another is a good indicator of whether we are "over the hill" or "still hanging in there". Yes, hiking in Colorado is a good place, but it would be nice if you could do some of that with regularity.

Yeah, but it’s a 3-5 hour flight and $X-hundred dollars a pop. Plus the rental car at the other end. But as far as I know, it is the closest place to Baltimore with 4,000 meter + hiking. I checked out some Mt. Elbert Web pages, it looks like the climb involves a 4,000 foot ascent, but nothing tricky in the climbing department.  Just need to start very early in the day to avoid afternooon weather at the summit.  I think I’ll try it after I get into shape in Virginia and New England. You did not state which route you intend to do on Kili, or when. The standard "coca cola" route is the most commonly used, and probably the easiest, but it is also the most overrun and the most boring. There are some outfitters that will go only that way. Others do the Machame Route. I went up the Arrow Glacier-Western Breach Route.

Yes, I’ve been looking at that, too.  I’m considering the Machame Route, though I’m a little concerned about the "scramble" described in getting up to the crater rim.  Though, I’m led to understand that trips usually descend on one of the walking paths, and a descent that’s a "scramble" would bother me more than an ascent.  Are there any hiking paths in the eastern US that would compare to this "scramble" in terms of the terrain (obviously omitting the altitude)? I’ve done quite a few miles on the AT in Maine, whith has some truly nasty rocky and steep sections.  Maybe I should plan to climb Katadin. Hell, even if I don’t make it up Kili, I might just have some fun hiking to some places in the States that I haven’t gotten around to visiting. The good news was that that route was longer (in terms of days) and therefore slightly more gradual on the lower parts.

Doesn’t it also give one a  day or two more acclimatization time at the intermediate altitudes?  Plus, I would be interested in hanging around the heatm/moorland/alpine zone and checking out the unique flora and fauna. However, on the day prior to summit day, we had to go up the Arrow Glacier from 16,000 to 18,800 feet. For some of the others who had never been up that high, it was a butt-kicker to the point that some were sick that night in the crater and could not make it to the summit. For others, it was just a tough hike. You might want to research your route versus the outfitters that go there. Incidentally, one who got sick was a smoker and a runner (odd combination). Then eventually when you commit and get ready to go, consider a prescription for Diamox from your physician. It is not a magic cure-all for altitude, but it might give you a little safety factor, especially since you’ve never been up high before.

Yes, and for all those who are worrying about my cardiovascular health, relax, I will check with the doc, though I don’t expect a problem, as my cholesterol has been uniformly low, and my blood pressure has always been pretty good as well.  The main thing I need to do is toughen up.  I’m not _that_ old.  (I’m 49) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know a guy in his seventies who summits Kili when he goes about once every two years. Of course, he (W.S.) is a tough old bird. —Bob Gross— Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.   …

Response:

How about Elbert? It is the highest peak in Colorado, although an easy walk-up. Go from the road to about 12,000, camp overnight, then get up early and summit. Then go all the way down that day. That ought to give a small taste of what Kili is like. —Bob Gross—

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Missouri Basin in the Collegants.  You have Mt. Harvard, Missouri, Oxford (at the least).  Easy (relatively) walk ups, high altitude camping (12,000+) and some great views.  About 4 hours (Buena Vista area) from Denver.  Figure at camping at base of Harvard in the Basin — on day walk up the creek.  Hike over the pass to Missouri/Oxford and camp between them at altitude. Then have somebody pick you up below there or trot back to car where you left it.

Response:

Joe, to add fuel to the fire, I will comment that when I went on Kili, ten of the original twelve who started on our trek were successful on the summit. Of the ten on the summit, eight had never been higher than 12,000 feet before. In fact, one was a fourteen-year-old girl, for crying out loud (I will say, she was pretty tough for 14). Now, as you sit there behind your desk, ask yourself "Am I a man, or a mouse?" As you train for your trip, you better train a little harder than what you think you need to do. It will be better for you to make the summit and still have a little breath left rather than to "run out of gas" about a thousand feet below the summit. If you are in your best condition, then you can do it and actually enjoy yourself. You don’t want to just barely survive it and then swear that you’ll never climb again. When I was about 500 feet below the summit, in the crater, I dropped some object which was then going to blow away in the wind. I actually sprinted for fifty feet or so to catch it, and then my heart was going "pitter patter" quite a bit. The whole key to doing Kili is to use the Swahili expression "po le po le", which means "slowly, slowly". It is not speed that will get you up the mountain, it is slow and steady pacing. Do some speed in your training, though. —Bob Gross—

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.   …

Response:

Traditional prescriptions say that you should be able to get fit enough, running, so that you can carry on an easy conversation while 20 minutes into running. Here are a couple of links to get you started on a walking/running program. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Beginning.html Look at the ‘Jog/Walk Program’  (as well as whatever come to mind on the page). Here is what it takes to go a bit higher, but you can get the idea of what they want you to do for one of the bigger guys and knock off a few thousand feet for Killy. http://www.alpineascents.com/denali-train.asp I’d include a LOT of stairs in the next few months.  At the least you should be able to spend an hour on stairs and not be wishing you were dead. Training at altitude that quits a two weeks before you head out for your great adventure would be of little help, except for the additional exercise you get.  You loose the acclimatization too quickly. Go very slow to start, as your tendons and bones are a month or more away from putting a lot of extra stress on them   Follow EXRX guidelines for starting out slow.  You could end up getting an injury that will set your training back a month. You might also consider Rainier.  It is scheduled loose its snow soon (geologically speaking) too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.

Response:

Missouri Basin in the Collegants.  You have Mt. Harvard, Missouri, Oxford (at the least).  Easy (relatively) walk ups, high altitude camping (12,000+) and some great views.  About 4 hours (Buena Vista area) from Denver.  Figure at camping at base of Harvard in the Basin — on day walk up the creek.  Hike over the pass to Missouri/Oxford and camp between them at altitude. Then have somebody pick you up below there or trot back to car where you left it.

Response:

Joe, Baltimore is a tough place to work this from. Like other suggestions here, you have the right ideas, but since we don’t know you, it is difficult to judge whether this makes sense. Go out at 4 AM and hike your six miles and carry twenty pounds of water in your pack. High altitude is the issue. If you have been to 8000-12,000 feet with a backpack, then that is a good sign, but it isn’t enough of an indicator to be sure. Some of us regularly hike up 14,000-foot peaks. Slowly, maybe, but nevertheless, we do them. Comparing performance from one year to another is a good indicator of whether we are "over the hill" or "still hanging in there". Yes, hiking in Colorado is a good place, but it would be nice if you could do some of that with regularity. You did not state which route you intend to do on Kili, or when. The standard "coca cola" route is the most commonly used, and probably the easiest, but it is also the most overrun and the most boring. There are some outfitters that will go only that way. Others do the Machame Route. I went up the Arrow Glacier-Western Breach Route. The good news was that that route was longer (in terms of days) and therefore slightly more gradual on the lower parts. However, on the day prior to summit day, we had to go up the Arrow Glacier from 16,000 to 18,800 feet. For some of the others who had never been up that high, it was a butt-kicker to the point that some were sick that night in the crater and could not make it to the summit. For others, it was just a tough hike. You might want to research your route versus the outfitters that go there. Incidentally, one who got sick was a smoker and a runner (odd combination). Then eventually when you commit and get ready to go, consider a prescription for Diamox from your physician. It is not a magic cure-all for altitude, but it might give you a little safety factor, especially since you’ve never been up high before. I know a guy in his seventies who summits Kili when he goes about once every two years. Of course, he (W.S.) is a tough old bird. —Bob Gross—

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.   …

Response:

You don’t say how old you are…….I would get a stress test first and then have a chat with your doctor. Art

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.  Aside from wanting to take on the challenge of climbing a really high mountain, I’d like to see snow and ice on the equator before it’s gone forever.  (As per the work of Lonnie Thompson, an ice-core climate scientist from Ohio State University).  While, the logistics of arranging a trip are easy enough (the hardest thing will be to choose the right ouftfitting company), I am a little concerned about getting myself in suitable physical shape. Unfortunately, I’m usually a chairbound desk jockey at work, with the the opportunity to pound the pavements for 30-45 minutes each day at lunch, plus another 40 minutes in total runing between train stations and so forth as part of my daily commute.  Plus, I get some treadmill time at the health club.  This may keep me from being immediate heart-attack bait, but it hasn’t helped my hiking endurance.  A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I tried my 6-mile training loop up at Catoctin National Park.  Fairly well-graded trail, ~1500 feet total vertical (according to Topo!).  I’ve been able to crank it out in ~3 hours with a 10 pound pack and couple of rest stops.  Well, last month when I tried it, my cardivascular endurance was fine (no chest-pounding, no chest pains or anything), but my legs just about turned to jelly on the uphill grind to Hog Rock.  And that with being accompanied by my wife, who walks at a slower pace than I. So naturally, I’m somewhat concerned, and I don’t think I could just hop off the plane and haul my butt up to 19,000 feet in my current condition.  So I’m trying to develop a training plan, which mainly involves hiking, as workouts in the gym bore me to tears, and besides, I’m not sure that I’m working the same muscles as I work on a good mountain hike.  (I do crank the incline on the treadmill to 2%, for whatever that’s worth.)  Unfortunately, I live in Baltimore, and we don’t have a whole bunch of real high butt-kicking mountains to climb close enough for day trips.  So I would appreciate any suggestions on how much training I would need and how intense it has to be. Here is my current plan: Start weekly day hikes:  I have a 6-mile training course at Catoctin, as well as a 9-mile course that’s a little more intense.  But all climbs have less than 1,000 feet (probably less than 800 feet) vertical at a time. I’m considering driving a little farther.  There might be some possible climbs in Shenadoah National Park (Old Rag Mountain come to mind), though some of these start getting to be a bit of a drive from Baltimore for a day trip.)  Any other good climbs in the northern part of the park would be appreciated.  Then there’s Signal Knob on Masanutten Mountain, that’s a nice 10-mile circuit with a good climb. Once I can climb to the top of some of these mountains at a good pace without having may legs theaten to collapse under me, it’s time to try a multiday trip.  Since I’m mostly restricted to weekends, I’m looking for some good places with challenging climbs in George Washington and Mongahela National Forests.  Most of my experience backpacking out there has been that, while there’s a lot of nice remote backcountry, many of the climbs are pretty easy.  But I do have in mind a stretch of the Allegheny Trail that runs north of Cass WV that, on the map, looks like it has some decent up and downs. The next step, now that I will assume that I’m in at least halfway decent shape, is to hit some steeper slopes.  For the east coast, that means I need to hike the glaciated terrain of the Catskills, Adirondacks, or New England.  I could probably swing a weekend trip up to Slide Mountain, but what I really have in my sights would be to do a traverse of the Presidential Range. Finally, I would want to see what happens when I start hiking at altitude.  In the past, I’ve had no trouble dealing with backpacking at 8,000 – 12,000 feet.  Obviously, going up to 19,000 is a whole different experience.   The best I could do would be to head out to Colorado for a week, first spend some time on an 8,000 – 10,000 foot peak, and then try to hit a 14-er.  Any suggestions as to destination would be appreciated. My inclination would be to stay at reasonable altitude in, say, Summit County (a short drive from the Denver airport), and hike around there.  I’m looking for a 14-er that can be walked up, as I have no rock-climbing/alpinist skills. At this point, I suppose I would be at least be fit enough so that the guides and porters on Kilimanjaro don’t laugh at my efforts the first day. So, does this look reasonable?

Response:

Rather than have a mid-life crisis that involves a red sports car and a blonde trophy wife, I’m considering an attempt to climb Kilimanjaro.  Aside from wanting to take on the challenge of climbing a really high mountain, I’d like to see snow and ice on the equator before it’s gone forever.  (As per the work of Lonnie Thompson, an ice-core climate scientist from Ohio State University).  While, the logistics of arranging a trip are easy enough (the hardest thing will be to choose the right ouftfitting company), I am a little concerned about getting myself in suitable physical shape. Unfortunately, I’m usually a chairbound desk jockey at work, with the the opportunity to pound the pavements for 30-45 minutes each day at lunch, plus another 40 minutes in total runing between train stations and so forth as part of my daily commute.  Plus, I get some treadmill time at the health club.  This may keep me from being immediate heart-attack bait, but it hasn’t helped my hiking endurance.  A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I tried my 6-mile training loop up at Catoctin National Park.  Fairly well-graded trail, ~1500 feet total vertical (according to Topo!).  I’ve been able to crank it out in ~3 hours with a 10 pound pack and couple of rest stops.  Well, last month when I tried it, my cardivascular endurance was fine (no chest-pounding, no chest pains or anything), but my legs just about turned to jelly on the uphill grind to Hog Rock.  And that with being accompanied by my wife, who walks at a slower pace than I. So naturally, I’m somewhat concerned, and I don’t think I could just hop off the plane and haul my butt up to 19,000 feet in my current condition.  So I’m trying to develop a training plan, which mainly involves hiking, as workouts in the gym bore me to tears, and besides, I’m not sure that I’m working the same muscles as I work on a good mountain hike.  (I do crank the incline on the treadmill to 2%, for whatever that’s worth.)  Unfortunately, I live in Baltimore, and we don’t have a whole bunch of real high butt-kicking mountains to climb close enough for day trips.  So I would appreciate any suggestions on how much training I would need and how intense it has to be. Here is my current plan: Start weekly day hikes:  I have a 6-mile training course at Catoctin, as well as a 9-mile course that’s a little more intense.  But all climbs have less than 1,000 feet (probably less than 800 feet) vertical at a time. I’m considering driving a little farther.  There might be some possible climbs in Shenadoah National Park (Old Rag Mountain come to mind), though some of these start getting to be a bit of a drive from Baltimore for a day trip.)  Any other good climbs in the northern part of the park would be appreciated.  Then there’s Signal Knob on Masanutten Mountain, that’s a nice 10-mile circuit with a good climb. Once I can climb to the top of some of these mountains at a good pace without having may legs theaten to collapse under me, it’s time to try a multiday trip.  Since I’m mostly restricted to weekends, I’m looking for some good places with challenging climbs in George Washington and Mongahela National Forests.  Most of my experience backpacking out there has been that, while there’s a lot of nice remote backcountry, many of the climbs are pretty easy.  But I do have in mind a stretch of the Allegheny Trail that runs north of Cass WV that, on the map, looks like it has some decent up and downs. The next step, now that I will assume that I’m in at least halfway decent shape, is to hit some steeper slopes.  For the east coast, that means I need to hike the glaciated terrain of the Catskills, Adirondacks, or New England.  I could probably swing a weekend trip up to Slide Mountain, but what I really have in my sights would be to do a traverse of the Presidential Range. Finally, I would want to see what happens when I start hiking at altitude.  In the past, I’ve had no trouble dealing with backpacking at 8,000 – 12,000 feet.  Obviously, going up to 19,000 is a whole different experience.   The best I could do would be to head out to Colorado for a week, first spend some time on an 8,000 – 10,000 foot peak, and then try to hit a 14-er.  Any suggestions as to destination would be appreciated. My inclination would be to stay at reasonable altitude in, say, Summit County (a short drive from the Denver airport), and hike around there.  I’m looking for a 14-er that can be walked up, as I have no rock-climbing/alpinist skills. At this point, I suppose I would be at least be fit enough so that the guides and porters on Kilimanjaro don’t laugh at my efforts the first day. So, does this look reasonable?

Response:

Question:

off as planned. The logistics of a tri can be trying to those trying to tri if the tri is poorly implemented.  Sounds like the race directors

Wow, Ozzie… Now try to say THAT five times fast. =) I certainly hope you meant to do that. –Vincent

Response:

Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. … I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator.

Hi Spud, Great race and sounds like you had fun. yes, sprint tris are great cross-training. Dot

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil

Congrats, Phil! That sounds like a lot of fun! Any sprint tris there in April? We might be "down under" then, and in Sydney no less. I’m glad to hear the ITBS and gastro problems weren’t bothering you duringthe race. Great finish for your team! Teresa in AZ

Response:

Thanks Teresa, There is a sprint triathlon on the 28th April (might be a bit soon), here are the details, it’s right in the heart of the city at Darling Harbour. STAR CITY TRIATHLON 300m swim/8km bike/3km run and 5km Run / Walk. Starts 7am from Star City Casino (Darling Harbour), Sydney. Contact Scott Beattie via email or Website or 0402-720-613 or (02) 9365-3235 or 6/15 Wellington St, BONDI, NSW 2026 Phil

Response:

Thanks Teresa, There is a sprint triathlon on the 28th April (might be a bit soon), here are the details, it’s right in the heart of the city at Darling Harbour. STAR CITY TRIATHLON 300m swim/8km bike/3km run and 5km Run / Walk. Starts 7am from Star City Casino (Darling Harbour), Sydney. Contact Scott Beattie via email or Website or 0402-720-613 or (02) 9365-3235 or 6/15 Wellington St, BONDI, NSW 2026 Phil

Thanks Phil! I’ll note that number for next year (ooops, I meant to say we’re going to try to get there *next* April. Husband is taking an internet master’s program from U of Western Sydney Nepean and that’s when graduation ceremonies are). But it sounds like a pretty course! Er, is it true about the sharks in the harbor? I don’t swim very fast….. Teresa in AZ

Response:

Er, is it true about the sharks in the harbor? I don’t swim very fast…..

You will, you will… "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Er, is it true about the sharks in the harbor? I don’t swim very fast….. You will, you will…

I suddenly have the theme to Jaws going through my head now….dada…dada..dadadadadada Mel – who is sure they put up shark-proof nets before the swim

Response:

Mel – who is sure they put up shark-proof nets before the swim

Bill (who plans on putting on a large rubber shark fin on my back for the swim.) "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Thanks Ozzie, Your words of wisdom always inspire me. True, the logistics of getting 4000 competitors off without a hitch is amazing. The whole day was a tribute to the organisers. Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil Just wanted to add my congratulations.  Great to hear when a race goes off as planned. The logistics of a tri can be trying to those trying to tri if the tri is poorly implemented.  Sounds like the race directors has their act together. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running:   http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

Response:

It’s all relative… the 5km run in a ’sprint’ race is a sprint compared to a 42km run in an ironman distance event…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do they call it "sprint?"  In strictest term, sprint in tracks refer to distances between 100 and 400 meter? I have always been wondering why triathlon misapply the word "sprint" on their sports?  Sprint refer to anaerobic activity andnot exactly aerobic. 4K is definitely aerobic. ??Norman 33:18? Wow, that’s fast. Nice to hear that you had a good time. (That’s always a priority high on the list.) =) It’s nice to hear how someone else’s triathlon went (especially if it went well) a few weeks before I do my own. Good job with the swim/bike/run and thanks for the race report. –Vincent

Response:

Hi, Phil, Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with.

[report snipped but appreciated] Whew, 33:18! That’s great! It sounds like it was quite an event. I’ve only been to the Opera House once but it was enough to imagine your route. Wow. Congratulations. Thanks, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Congratulation and thanks for your report. Please post triathlon reports also to rec.sport.triathlon Felix, http://home.tiscalinet.ch/weilenmann/Sport – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil

Response:

Thanks Cam, I wanted to beat my time of last year which was 35:28, so I was chuffed about that, I believe the swim was slightly longer this time too! Bummer about the postponed tri, good luck in the half and keep up the cross training. Cheers, Phil

You’ve obviously improved then, eh? As for the cross training, I think I’ll just keep this as part of my regimen now (even if a tri isn’t in my future)…. I’ve had zero running injuries since I started doing this. thanks, Cam

Response:

Good on ya, mate. Mike C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went moothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some ime. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading,

Response:

Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil

Response:

33:18? Wow, that’s fast. Nice to hear that you had a good time. (That’s always a priority high on the list.) =) It’s nice to hear how someone else’s triathlon went (especially if it went well) a few weeks before I do my own. Good job with the swim/bike/run and thanks for the race report. –Vincent

Response:

Why do they call it "sprint?"  In strictest term, sprint in tracks refer to distances between 100 and 400 meter? I have always been wondering why triathlon misapply the word "sprint" on their sports?  Sprint refer to anaerobic activity andnot exactly aerobic. 4K is definitely aerobic. ??Norman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 33:18? Wow, that’s fast. Nice to hear that you had a good time. (That’s always a priority high on the list.) =) It’s nice to hear how someone else’s triathlon went (especially if it went well) a few weeks before I do my own. Good job with the swim/bike/run and thanks for the race report. –Vincent

Response:

congrats, Phil! sounds like you did well, time-wise. did you have a time goal going into the race? i’m continuing my (slightly scaled back) tri training even tho’ i’ve postponed my first tri (was going to do one in May). i, too, will do a half marathon in May. i really do love all of the cross training… hard to get sick of any one sport this way. not that i’d EVER get sick of running. happy training and racing, Cam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil

Response:

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil

Just wanted to add my congratulations.  Great to hear when a race goes off as planned. The logistics of a tri can be trying to those trying to tri if the tri is poorly implemented.  Sounds like the race directors has their act together. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running:   http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

Response:

Hi Vincent, Thanks for your kind words, hope your tri goes well too! Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 33:18? Wow, that’s fast. Nice to hear that you had a good time. (That’s always a priority high on the list.) =) It’s nice to hear how someone else’s triathlon went (especially if it went well) a few weeks before I do my own. Good job with the swim/bike/run and thanks for the race report. –Vincent

Response:

Hi Norman, I guess it’s call a sprint tri because of the short distances compared to regular tris (Olympic, half IM and full IM) This is one of the shortest distance tris you’ll find. Oh and believe me it was anaerobic for me especially the 4k run Regards Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do they call it "sprint?"  In strictest term, sprint in tracks refer to distances between 100 and 400 meter? I have always been wondering why triathlon misapply the word "sprint" on their sports?  Sprint refer to anaerobic activity andnot exactly aerobic. 4K is definitely aerobic. ??Norman 33:18? Wow, that’s fast. Nice to hear that you had a good time. (That’s always a priority high on the list.) =) It’s nice to hear how someone else’s triathlon went (especially if it went well) a few weeks before I do my own. Good job with the swim/bike/run and thanks for the race report. –Vincent

Response:

Thanks Cam, I wanted to beat my time of last year which was 35:28, so I was chuffed about that, I believe the swim was slightly longer this time too! Bummer about the postponed tri, good luck in the half and keep up the cross training. Cheers, Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – congrats, Phil! sounds like you did well, time-wise. did you have a time goal going into the race? i’m continuing my (slightly scaled back) tri training even tho’ i’ve postponed my first tri (was going to do one in May). i, too, will do a half marathon in May. i really do love all of the cross training… hard to get sick of any one sport this way. not that i’d EVER get sick of running. happy training and racing, Cam Hi all, Competed in a 400mtr swim, 8k bike and 4k run sprint tri yesterday and had a blast. Training was a little off the mark due to ITBS and gastro last week but still managed to finish in 33:18 which I was pleased with. This event is held on the Sydney harbour foreshore (right next to the Opera house), some of which was used for the Sydney Olympics Triathlon. Total number of competitors was 4000+ so organisation has to be perfect. To summarise quickly weather was fantastic, mid 20’s celsius and sunny. Wave starts every 5 minutes for the swim, managed to have a great swim this year (compared to last) about 300 swimmers per wave. Bike transition went smoothly. Really enjoyed the bike leg but may have went out too fast as I was pretty knackered for the run. After the bike T2 was a dud, I managed to run the wrong way into the bike compound, so that cost me some time. Still the run went well, albeit I would of loved to have a bit more gas toward the end. Teams of 4 with individual time added together. Our team managed to come in 43rd/1000 (800+ team finishers), so we were delighted. I totally recommend these sprint tris as a great cross training motivator. Looking forward to half marathon in May, Thanks for reading, Phil

Response:

Question:

       Recently while running longer distances I’ve been getting cramps in my shoulders and I was wondering if lifting some weights would help.  Also I know this isn’t really about running but my son has been asking me what kind of weightlifting exercises he should do for playing basketball.                     Thank You

Response:

There are three types of exercises you can try that specifically affect the area:  shrugs, lateral raises, and upright rows.  The latter two have the best overall affect for both the deltoid region and the trapezius, while shrugs target the traps more specifically.  Also, two general exercises which provide good overall upper body development, which includes stretching & strengthening, are dips and pullovers (on Nautilus-type equipment).  Just work into both of these carefully and ensure you use good form. Unless your son is over 16 or 17, I’d recommend he do as many free-hand movements as possible and incorporate a lot of stretching with bands that provide various degrees of tension like what Mark Allen (the triathlete) uses. Sissy squats & one legged calf raises for the legs, dips or push-ups, chins, and some seated arm & shoulder work with dumbells.  Stay away from barbell work for these areas as its too tempting to pile on the weight.  The reason for recommending he stay away from the free weights is to let him develop base strength & coordination first, then gradually work into the weights.  Weights require a lot of coordination, and if he’s not ready for them, it’ll do more harm than good. Good luck, Parker

Response:

Sorry for all these newbie questions…but they generate such interesting threads. How does weight lifting affect your running?  Is it a good idea to mix both?

Response:

I read on the Runner’s World site that people who can’t seem to improve their speed do so by adding in weight training to their weekly routine.  2-3 reps of 12-15 sets for the upper and lower body as well as abs.  If you don’t have a lot of time they suggest doing upper body and abs one day and lower body and abs a couple of days later.  That way you don’t have to set aside a lot of time to do the whole thing each time.  Supposedly you can look up to 8 years younger with regular weight lifting and you (and your friends ) will start to visibly see the difference in your physique in about 6 weeks.  I started this week…. Helen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry for all these newbie questions…but they generate such interesting threads. How does weight lifting affect your running?  Is it a good idea to mix both?

Response:

You’ll get lots of authoritative…opinions. Go with what works. Alberto Salazar does weights. Works for me. — George Beinhorn "How to Run Your First 50-Miler" http://www.oceansofenergy.com

Response:

Unless you are a sprinter go for light weights and high reps. Try to avoid bulking up. Put a 10lb weight in a backpack and go for a run and you’ll see what I mean.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry for all these newbie questions…but they generate such interesting threads. How does weight lifting affect your running?  Is it a good idea to mix both?

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Question:

Ummmmmmmm wooops…. sorry, didn’t see this post when I posted the med post… hmmmmmm how bout water aerobics…. where u don’t have to be in deep water and don’t have to put your head under?

They don’t? I can do that. I’ve had enough therapy to stand in water up to my waist and I can use floatation devices if I know the water is shallow enough to wade in. It’s down to just floating in the water.

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You shit disturber. Why don’t you take your clinical references off to some sci.med. group or something? They’re off-topic here. They should be spoilered too. Some people are triggered by thoughts of men in lab coats, you know. mmmmm . . . lab coats!

Yes, with rubber gloves. And they put rodents in little cages with no empty plastic bottles and they do strange things to them and then they kill them and extract their brains and whirl the tissue in a centrifuge to make a shake that they separate and count the portions. Think about that.

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as non-steroidal anti inflammatories, currently the most popular ones for all arthritis are Vioxx and Celebrex.

I don’t think I ever tried either of those. Then on to the steroidal anti inflammatories.  These are used more with rheumatoid than osteo…. Prednisone burst….. not necessarily long term. if that fails to work they often go on to methotrexate.

Are those the ones where you’re screwed-up for a day? newer meds that you go to the doctors office once a week and have injected.

Some people told me they lay you up for a whole day. I don’t know if it’s true. I guess I better look this all up. but I’ll find it.)  Ok, found it…. it’s called INFLIXIMAB  with a commercial name of remicade.  Unfortunately, it is not at this point commercially available in Canada.

hahahaha, like that matters in Canada. This country was settled by privateers and blockade runners, smugglers paradise. There’s people who do special orders even for strangers here. Some cities, there is household delivery. AIDS and cancer cocktails and marijuana mostly. They will bust the meds if they catch them coming through customs but once they hit the streets they are totally ignored. Compassion Society couriers get all the breaks the cops can give. But, perhaps, in researching that, you can find out the other ones name, or when it will be.

Yes, I’m going to look. And…… while I’m looking…. I know you don’t want to hear this…. but exercise has been proven helpful in all types of arthritis.

Yeah. I keep my hands going, got a nice isometric thing for that. Also, certain herbal remedies have been found to be truly effective in helping rebuild cartilage.  Specifically glucosamine/chondritin.  Many people with arthritis do have their docs recommend this.  Also, there is evidence that geletin helps (knox…. they actually have a joint formula…… it doesn’t harden…. kind of like drinking a thicker orange juice once a day.

I tried that and shark cartilage, didn’t seem to do anything. I didn’t use Knox brand though. I think it was straight agar-agar. Everytime I’ve gone looking for glucosamine I’ve forgotten the name. Perhaps, like depression, a combination works best….. like swimming for exercise (easy on joints…. some herbal therapy that I mentioned above, and meds…. )  Of course, you and your doc would need to find what works for you.  I do know there is one other new medicine out for rheumatoid arthritis, but can’t think of it’s name at all off the top of my head.  Will try to look later for you.

I’ll look for it anyway. It’s been years since I looked.

Response:

How do you feel about swimming?  Esp useful in Arthritis… since it doesn’t irritate the joints. That’s embarrassing. I drowned, had to be resuscitated twice, I got hydrophobia out of the deal. Haven’t had therapy for it. Probably should.

Ummmmmmmm wooops…. sorry, didn’t see this post when I posted the med post… hmmmmmm how bout water aerobics…. where u don’t have to be in deep water and don’t have to put your head under?

Response:

OK…… well, there are a number of treatments…. this is why would be easier if I could ask you some specifics…. but u did give me enough to point you a few directions. First off, it is going to make a diff if it’s osteo or rheumatoid.  As far as non-steroidal anti inflammatories, currently the most popular ones for all arthritis are Vioxx and Celebrex.  Both are a bit gentler on the stomach than some of their forerunners.  Of course, as with any med that might irritate the stomach, you want to take with food. Then on to the steroidal anti inflammatories.  These are used more with rheumatoid than osteo…. Prednisone burst….. not necessarily long term. if that fails to work they often go on to methotrexate.  But, there are newer meds that you go to the doctors office once a week and have injected. hmmmmm, I’d have to look for their names, because they are so new, I forget….. but hold on, and will get them for you… have given another friend of mine the names before… so I know I can find….. (there are 2…. and they I know there is research common on the net on both…. but until I remember the name of even one… can’t point you where to look…. but I’ll find it.)  Ok, found it…. it’s called INFLIXIMAB  with a commercial name of remicade.  Unfortunately, it is not at this point commercially available in Canada.  But, perhaps, in researching that, you can find out the other ones name, or when it will be. And…… while I’m looking…. I know you don’t want to hear this…. but exercise has been proven helpful in all types of arthritis. Also, certain herbal remedies have been found to be truly effective in helping rebuild cartilage.  Specifically glucosamine/chondritin.  Many people with arthritis do have their docs recommend this.  Also, there is evidence that geletin helps (knox…. they actually have a joint formula…… it doesn’t harden…. kind of like drinking a thicker orange juice once a day. Perhaps, like depression, a combination works best….. like swimming for exercise (easy on joints…. some herbal therapy that I mentioned above, and meds…. )  Of course, you and your doc would need to find what works for you.  I do know there is one other new medicine out for rheumatoid arthritis, but can’t think of it’s name at all off the top of my head.  Will try to look later for you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They do have some new meds for rheumatoid…. this subject gets more complex than can be done back and forth here…. do u have icq? if so… I’m at 3321007….. reason being…. there are questions I have to ask to figure out what to see if u tried and such… and what body parts are affected…. But, there are several new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis. No, I don’t have chat anything. What are the meds called? I’ll look them up. The kind I have is everywhere except the spine. And when the inflammation is bad and the joint is hot the skin gets kind of waxy. The Rh factor is negative, any spurs or bumps so far have been soft tissue and some really bad ones shrunk or wore down or something. New doctors tell me it must be osteo until I get x-rayed. Everything is in stereo, the same joints on each side go bad at the same time. When it is really bad sometimes my fingertips go a little numb and get inflamed too. I don’t think I ever told a doctor that, I think I just noticed it the past few years. I’ve tried a whole bunch of those horrible medications. One almost killed me. Every one of them messed up my guts. Even the enteric ones, or whatever they’re called, that doesn’t help much, something happens to my liver, I think it is. Docs don’t like it. They cut the meds, boom! It’s been six years since I’ve had any prescription medication. I can manage the pain with what I can get better than they can with what they’ll give me. That’s still not very well though. I’m really careful not to injure any joints. I think it’s getting worse again. If it is, I’ll have to take some kind of anti-inflammatory. I think if the inflammation is kept down then there is less lumpiness. I worry about finger and foot joints. I’ll look-up any new medication names.

Response:

You shit disturber. Why don’t you take your clinical references off to some sci.med. group or something? They’re off-topic here. They should be spoilered too. Some people are triggered by thoughts of men in lab coats, you know.

mmmmm . . . lab coats! — nothing special

Response:

I’m lucky and I have some paths and flood control ponds to walk around.  I love walking by the water as the sun comes up, scaring all the rabbits as I go.

I would try to sneak-up on them.

Response:

How do you feel about swimming?  Esp useful in Arthritis… since it doesn’t irritate the joints.

That’s embarrassing. I drowned, had to be resuscitated twice, I got hydrophobia out of the deal. Haven’t had therapy for it. Probably should.

Response:

They do have some new meds for rheumatoid…. this subject gets more complex than can be done back and forth here…. do u have icq? if so… I’m at 3321007….. reason being…. there are questions I have to ask to figure out what to see if u tried and such… and what body parts are affected…. But, there are several new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis.

No, I don’t have chat anything. What are the meds called? I’ll look them up. The kind I have is everywhere except the spine. And when the inflammation is bad and the joint is hot the skin gets kind of waxy. The Rh factor is negative, any spurs or bumps so far have been soft tissue and some really bad ones shrunk or wore down or something. New doctors tell me it must be osteo until I get x-rayed. Everything is in stereo, the same joints on each side go bad at the same time. When it is really bad sometimes my fingertips go a little numb and get inflamed too. I don’t think I ever told a doctor that, I think I just noticed it the past few years. I’ve tried a whole bunch of those horrible medications. One almost killed me. Every one of them messed up my guts. Even the enteric ones, or whatever they’re called, that doesn’t help much, something happens to my liver, I think it is. Docs don’t like it. They cut the meds, boom! It’s been six years since I’ve had any prescription medication. I can manage the pain with what I can get better than they can with what they’ll give me. That’s still not very well though. I’m really careful not to injure any joints. I think it’s getting worse again. If it is, I’ll have to take some kind of anti-inflammatory. I think if the inflammation is kept down then there is less lumpiness. I worry about finger and foot joints. I’ll look-up any new medication names.

Response:

Oh, fuck off. I know how to do it. fuck off your own bad self.

You shit disturber. Why don’t you take your clinical references off to some sci.med. group or something? They’re off-topic here. They should be spoilered too. Some people are triggered by thoughts of men in lab coats, you know.

Response:

How do you feel about swimming?  Esp useful in Arthritis… since it doesn’t irritate the joints.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The intervention consisted of interval training (walking speed)  on a treadmill for 30 minutes a day for 10 days." Oh, fuck off. I know how to do it. I live in a world where people challenge each other. I will get challenged on this. I will then have an obligation to myself and the challenging friend to give it a try. I know who will do it, he never lets up. One of those triathlete/ultra-fitness types. Always before I could say, "Some people say exercise helps." Now that has to be, "Some people have shown exercise may help." That changes everything. I’ll be able to stall him for a bit but not for long. Wait a minute, maybe not at all, he might swing me a gym pass. If he does that at a place where there is an elliptical trainer and I have any free time then I have no way out at all. I suppose it will be nice if it works. This sucks though. I hate exercise.

Response:

They do have some new meds for rheumatoid…. this subject gets more complex than can be done back and forth here…. do u have icq? if so… I’m at 3321007….. reason being…. there are questions I have to ask to figure out what to see if u tried and such… and what body parts are affected…. But, there are several new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL, doesn’t necessarily mean "aerobics" as in dance…. can also be brisk walking…. mowing your lawn… anything that gets your heartrate up. That last bit right there, that’s all it means to me. Lungs and heart pumping overdrive. Yuck. I can’t start right now because my life is too messed-up. I will start with the summer. By then everything will still be messed-up but I’ll be able to work in some exercise. And the effects of walking on ice and snow will be over, arthritis. Hey, do you know if there are any new, liver and gut friendly arthritis medications on the market? And no, I’m not sticking anything up my ass, no suppositories. It has to be either pills or injections. I can’t afford any knock-you-out-for-the-day ones either. I think I may be in trouble again, it’s rheumatoid, I have varying degrees of remissions. I don’t want to take any of those old drugs, I always bust a gut before they even get working. Literally. Feldene was the only one I could take for very long and even it turned on me. The pricks. They should give me morphine and send me on my way. They will max me out on codiene and offer me something disgusting, starts with ‘d,’ but they won’t give me morphine. They are awful dirty about the whole pain management thing, forever playing God with the goods. It’s just stupid though. If I had just enough morphine, heroin or fentanyl to manage the pain I could have a much nicer life than without it but all they will offer me is demerol (is that it?) and that just turns me into a basketcase. The amount of codiene they will give me already is too much too, a stronger opiate would work better, be safer. How they prescribe painkillers is stupid. I don’t trust physicians anymore. Since getting arthritis and going through that and the past ten years getting mental health treatment too, there is just no way I can respect just any physician’s opinion or practice anymore. No way at all. They are one bunch of jerks.

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Oh, fuck off. I know how to do it.

fuck off your own bad self. — nothing special

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I always feel better after a workout that makes me exhausted.

Physically, I’m always sore, but mentally, sometimes I’m invigorated. Not always though. But I’ve never done it as an every day thing since long before the depression got unmanageable. Time to give it a go then. Oh, I can see it all now. The peak-conditioning training schedule, the zone diet, suggested supplements lists. Someone I know is going to be in all their glory over this.

Response:

"The intervention consisted of interval training (walking speed)  on a treadmill for 30 minutes a day for 10 days."

Oh, fuck off. I know how to do it. I live in a world where people challenge each other. I will get challenged on this. I will then have an obligation to myself and the challenging friend to give it a try. I know who will do it, he never lets up. One of those triathlete/ultra-fitness types. Always before I could say, "Some people say exercise helps." Now that has to be, "Some people have shown exercise may help." That changes everything. I’ll be able to stall him for a bit but not for long. Wait a minute, maybe not at all, he might swing me a gym pass. If he does that at a place where there is an elliptical trainer and I have any free time then I have no way out at all. I suppose it will be nice if it works. This sucks though. I hate exercise.

Response:

LOL, doesn’t necessarily mean "aerobics" as in dance…. can also be brisk walking…. mowing your lawn… anything that gets your heartrate up.

That last bit right there, that’s all it means to me. Lungs and heart pumping overdrive. Yuck. I can’t start right now because my life is too messed-up. I will start with the summer. By then everything will still be messed-up but I’ll be able to work in some exercise. And the effects of walking on ice and snow will be over, arthritis. Hey, do you know if there are any new, liver and gut friendly arthritis medications on the market? And no, I’m not sticking anything up my ass, no suppositories. It has to be either pills or injections. I can’t afford any knock-you-out-for-the-day ones either. I think I may be in trouble again, it’s rheumatoid, I have varying degrees of remissions. I don’t want to take any of those old drugs, I always bust a gut before they even get working. Literally. Feldene was the only one I could take for very long and even it turned on me. The pricks. They should give me morphine and send me on my way. They will max me out on codiene and offer me something disgusting, starts with ‘d,’ but they won’t give me morphine. They are awful dirty about the whole pain management thing, forever playing God with the goods. It’s just stupid though. If I had just enough morphine, heroin or fentanyl to manage the pain I could have a much nicer life than without it but all they will offer me is demerol (is that it?) and that just turns me into a basketcase. The amount of codiene they will give me already is too much too, a stronger opiate would work better, be safer. How they prescribe painkillers is stupid. I don’t trust physicians anymore. Since getting arthritis and going through that and the past ten years getting mental health treatment too, there is just no way I can respect just any physician’s opinion or practice anymore. No way at all. They are one bunch of jerks.

Response:

You just had to post this didn’t you? I hate aerobics. Now I have to do them.

I recommend walking with a walkman.  I like to listen to the talk shows because it makes the time fly. I’m lucky and I have some paths and flood control ponds to walk around.  I love walking by the water as the sun comes up, scaring all the rabbits as I go. Bruce.

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I always feel better after a workout that makes me exhausted. Kahnadah

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WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Apr 05 — A simple program of regular aerobic exercise can substantially improve depression scores in patients with moderate to severe major depression, despite prior failures with pharmacologic therapy. You just had to post this didn’t you? I hate aerobics. Now I have to do them.

"The intervention consisted of interval training (walking speed)  on a treadmill for 30 minutes a day for 10 days." — nothing special

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WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Apr 05 — A simple program of regular aerobic exercise can substantially improve depression scores in patients with moderate to severe major depression, despite prior failures with pharmacologic therapy. You just had to post this didn’t you? I hate aerobics. Now I have to do them.

LOL, doesn’t necessarily mean "aerobics" as in dance…. can also be brisk walking…. mowing your lawn… anything that gets your heartrate up.

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WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Apr 05 — A simple program of regular aerobic exercise can substantially improve depression scores in patients with moderate to severe major depression, despite prior failures with pharmacologic therapy.

You just had to post this didn’t you? I hate aerobics. Now I have to do them.

Response:

I am noticing that my new swimming {the crawl with my face in the water} is getting my heart rate up REALLY quickly. I guess it is good that at the moment I can only do half a length before pooping out. {To put this in perspective, I now regularly do 12 laps, or 24 lengths without stopping while doing the breast stroke!}

Very impressive!!  I haven’t been swimming in a long time, but yes, it’s definitely one of the best forms of exercise there is. Hmmm I feel a purchase coming on. What HR monitor do you use and what does it do? Is it your first one? If so, what will you get on your next one? Did you get it online?

The company is at: http://www.polarusa.com/ The one I bought is: http://www.polarusa.com/products/accurex_plus.html And I also bought the optional computer interface that allows uploading of the recorded data to the PC for plotting.  I think the recording feature is of very limited use without the ability to upload the data. http://www.polarusa.com/products/interface_plus.html I originally bought mine from Road Runner Sports at: http://www.roadrunnersports.com/cgi-bin/rrs/rrs/rrHome.jsp but I’m not sure if they still carry this model.  It does appear to still be available from Polar directly, and for significantly LESS than I paid for mine. It wasn’t my first HR watch, but it was my first recording HR watch.   I’m not sure what I would like to get on my next one.  This one does pretty much all that I wanted from it.  It shows me exactly how my heart responds during hours of exercise.  There was a better model (I don’t remember the model name) but all it offered was doing a scatter plot of HR jitter, supposedly a measure of stress on the heart. It records the current HR every "n" amount of time.  If you set it for the highest sample rate, every 15 seconds, it can hold up to 5.5 hours of recordings.   At the lowest sample rate, every 60 seconds, it holds up to 66.5 hours of recordings. If you’re interested, I can send you a small GIF of the recording I made this morning.  Considering that technology like this used to be reserved for hospitals, it’s amazing. Let me know if you have any questions about it. Now, if we can just figure out a way to get ourselves {and others} out when deep in the pit, we will be rich, RICH I say!!!

I AGREE!! Bruce.

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See? SEE! ?????? Haven’t *I* been saying this for days,,,months,,,years…eons???? Now, get OUT there and EXERCISE! Swim! Kayak! Walk! Bike! {And other stuff I don’t do…}

Seriously, for me, exercise is the one thing i can do that has ALWAYS helped. And has relatively mild side effects {oooch, ouch, creak, groan….}

Yep, after just two mornings of walking, I do have a couple of muscles making their presence known.  A very small price to pay for benefits gained. I was a little surprised that I did as well as I did after over 4 winter months of couch testing.  My heart rate was really up there, but that should improve quickly as I get back in to it. Just because I love gadgets, I wear a recording HR monitor while I exercise and keep a log of all the plot charts on my computer to track my progress and cardiovascular health. I agree, nothing beats exercise. Bruce.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Apr 05 — A simple program of regular aerobic exercise can substantially improve depression scores in patients with moderate to severe major depression, despite prior failures with pharmacologic therapy. The new findings provide "grounds for cautious optimism" about the use of exercise therapy as an alternative treatment for depression, Dr. F. Dimeo, of the Benjamin Franklin Medical Center, in Berlin, Germany, and colleagues conclude in the April issue of the British Journal of Sports Medicine. The investigators studied the effects of aerobic exercise on depression in 12 patients with major depressive episodes ranging from 12 to 96 weeks in duration. Of the patients, 10 were characterized as having refractory depression after failing to improve during treatment with at least two different classes of antidepressants for at least 4 weeks during the current episode. The intervention consisted of interval training (walking speed) on a treadmill for 30 minutes a day for 10 days. Overall, exercise training caused a clinically significant drop in depression scores during the 10 days. Of the twelve patients in the study, six demonstrated "substantial" improvements — including five of the patients with refractory depression — two demonstrated slight improvements and four remained unchanged. Moreover, there was a high rate of acceptance of the intervention among the group, Dr. Dimeo told Reuters Health. "Indeed, several patients asked to continue the training program after the study was concluded." The study director added that many questions remain about the role that aerobic exercise should play in the treatment of depression. "Aerobic exercise may certainly be used as complementary therapy in severely depressed patients who receive antidepressants and do not have contraindications for exercise. Since there is no evidence about the long-term effects of exercise [and] compliance and outcomes when stopping training, aerobic exercise should not be used as first-line therapy for depression until confirmatory studies have been concluded." Dr. Dimeo noted that the team has already initiated a larger, randomized trial of aerobic exercise in depression. Preliminary results from this study, he said, "are very promising." Br J Sports Med 2001;35:114-117.

I’ll have to look up that reference. — "It was when I found out that I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."                                                Ornette Coleman

Response:

WESTPORT, CT (Reuters Health) Apr 05 — A simple program of regular aerobic exercise can substantially improve depression scores in patients with moderate to severe major depression, despite prior failures with pharmacologic therapy. The new findings provide "grounds for cautious optimism" about the use of exercise therapy as an alternative treatment for depression, Dr. F. Dimeo, of the Benjamin Franklin Medical Center, in Berlin, Germany, and colleagues conclude in the April issue of the British Journal of Sports Medicine. The investigators studied the effects of aerobic exercise on depression in 12 patients with major depressive episodes ranging from 12 to 96 weeks in duration. Of the patients, 10 were characterized as having refractory depression after failing to improve during treatment with at least two different classes of antidepressants for at least 4 weeks during the current episode. The intervention consisted of interval training (walking speed) on a treadmill for 30 minutes a day for 10 days. Overall, exercise training caused a clinically significant drop in depression scores during the 10 days. Of the twelve patients in the study, six demonstrated "substantial" improvements — including five of the patients with refractory depression — two demonstrated slight improvements and four remained unchanged. Moreover, there was a high rate of acceptance of the intervention among the group, Dr. Dimeo told Reuters Health. "Indeed, several patients asked to continue the training program after the study was concluded." The study director added that many questions remain about the role that aerobic exercise should play in the treatment of depression. "Aerobic exercise may certainly be used as complementary therapy in severely depressed patients who receive antidepressants and do not have contraindications for exercise. Since there is no evidence about the long-term effects of exercise [and] compliance and outcomes when stopping training, aerobic exercise should not be used as first-line therapy for depression until confirmatory studies have been concluded." Dr. Dimeo noted that the team has already initiated a larger, randomized trial of aerobic exercise in depression. Preliminary results from this study, he said, "are very promising." Br J Sports Med 2001;35:114-117. — nothing special

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Question:

Anyone know what the date for the 1999 Keauhou Kona 1/2 Ironman?  It was on 5/24 last year…….also, an email address for a contact would be great. Train Well! Tom Livingston, Clydesdale Portland, OR

Response:

The dt is set for the 30th this year. We (Tri-Altitude Multi-Sport) are getting a group together to go to the race. GREAT race, I went two years ago. Olympic and 1/2. Any questions just e-mail me. Thanks Mike Gordon Xtreme Nduranz

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Question:

My question is: Am I too old for that and how do I train properly without giving up marathon training? With the focus on a marathon in November I am only running 4 times covering 50 km, I am swimming 4 times a week, each swim 2 km breaststroke (I am about to learn a proper crawl technique), and I do spinning classes in a gym 3 times a week. With all my training I run/swim or spin/swim doing the exercises one after the other or I do weights at the gym twice a week and swim afterwards. Sunday is a rest day. I would say I am pretty fit for my age but is it enough to focus on triathlons? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks Gundi      

I have a friend who is 5-9 and 140 LBS and 29 years old with a full time job who trains 12-18 hours a week. She swims 3 or 4x/ week for 2k a session, bikes 3x a week, sometimes twice indoors and one medium long ride outdoors, and goes to the gym once or twice a week for weight training. She runs 3x a week — one track workout, one medium tempo run and one long run (at 9:15 per mile) with a maximum of 35 miles weekly and I predict she will run her first marathon in 3:30 and stay healthy because she does not pound her legs every day while running. Yes you can train for triathlon while preparing to do a marathon and I think it is more healthy. Timothy Carlson.

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I did my first triathlon when I was 62.  I could only do the breaststroke and had never run due to a bad back.  I am now 67 and still at it having the time of my life.  The training schedule will become apparent over time.  Best of luck.  Allen Craft.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am thinking of starting to do triathlons. My question is: Am I too old for that and how do I train properly without giving up marathon training? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I would suggest posting this query also on rec.sport.triathlon and actively reading that group.  They will provide tri-specific advice on training, etc. FWIW – I prepped for my first Olympic Distance tri in just over three months from a solid running base.  Finished respectably, too — but since I had so little time I really had to deemphasize running to train properly for swim and bike.  To stay at marathon level running, give yourself more time to train. Tris are great (I’m 36, so no I don’t think you’re too old!). Sam. — ** To Reply: Please delete the "#" sign from the Return Address line **

I also started triathlons from a solid running base (with moderate swimming abilities).I had an entire summer to prepare and came away with a respectable placing.I feel that 3 months is a minimum time to convert to triathlons. Brian.

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With the focus on a marathon in November I am only running 4 times covering 50 km, I am swimming 4 times a week, each swim 2 km breaststroke (I am about to learn a proper crawl technique).

   Glad that you are going to learn the proper crawl technique. Breaststroke is known to be very hard on the knees.  Swimmers who specialize in that stroke do a limited amount of breaststroke when they practice – they also swim a lot of the other strokes, especially crawl stroke. 2K sounds like a lot of breaststroke.  I swim in masters competition (breaststroke is my best stroke) and I don’t believe I’ve ever swum that much breaststroke in a work-out, though I will swim as much as 4,000 meters over-all.                       jean

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        You are never too old. Besides you’re doing the hardest part already, the training. It sounds as if you’ve got a good base training already.         Running is very important in being successful in triathlons, mostly because it’s at the end when you’re the most tired. Forty plus km/week is good enough training, 4 times/week. A long run and speed or hillwork is important.         Swimming is an area you need to work on. You’ll need to learn the crawl to get the most out of your effort. Two or three swims weekly is great.         Spinning is a great workout. One long, one hard hills and at least one other is a good start.         I’ve got several friends who started in their forty’s, one of which won her age group. Some of these fifty, sixty and seventy year olds are very fast.They all love it also.         Good luck and enjoy.

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Check the rec.sport.triathlon newsgroup-it’s a good source for triathlon info.  Nice people, too. Scott Hoffman

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Hi fellow runners, I am 43 yr. old female and did my first marathon last September in  4:08. Since then I was injured a lot and had to look for other ways to keep fit. I dicovered my love for swimming and cycling and am thinking of starting to do triathlons. My question is: Am I too old for that

You’re never too old – or the corollary – "Never, ever, act your age." <g I’ll be 50 in August – one week later I’ll be doing my first Ironman Tri in Canada. and how do I train properly without giving up marathon training?

Ah, now that COULD be a problem, if you’re really serious about the marathon.  That is, racing it rather than enjoying it. Cross-training for spring and summer tri’s will keep you in over-all aerobic condition to do a marathon, but that doesn’t necessarily mean your legs will be ready. But you should have Sept – Nov to concentrate on running. You should be at a level to ramp up w/o any difficulty. During the year, I emphasize one discipline over the other. During winter, I run more, spring brings out the bike. My swimming stays about the same. By summer, it’s pretty evenly spread (except for swimming lagging behind.) With the focus on a marathon in November I am only running 4 times covering 50 km, I am swimming 4 times a week, each swim 2 km breaststroke (I am about to learn a proper crawl technique), and I do spinning classes in a gym 3 times a week. With all my training I run/swim or spin/swim doing the exercises one after the other or I do weights at the gym twice a week and swim afterwards. Sunday is a rest day. I would say I am pretty fit for my age but is it enough to focus on triathlons?

Yeah. You sound like you’re ready. One observation, tho. Triathlon isn’t about swimming. It’s probably the least important of the three.  Triathlon is about biking well and then being able to run after you get off the bike and you’re tired. Your present schedule is probably a bit heavy on swimming. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Subscribe to the rec.sport.triathlon newsgroup. You’ll pick up a lot of good tips there. Pick a "sprint" tri to start off with – they usually are 1/4 mile swim, 12-15 B, and 5K R or something close to that.  Manageable distances. Work in some "bricks" in your schedule. That’s a bike immediately followed by a run. It’ll teach you about that transition which is physically the most difficult. It’s tough at first. Your legs don’t want to work. The physical part stays tough, but experience helps you to deal with it mentally. You know it’ll get better. It <almost always does. Have fun. Oh. The derivation of "brick"?  <Bike + <Run = ICK Mike "TriBop" Tennent Remove "nospam." for email reply IMC ‘98 IronVirgins Website http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/imc_iv.htm WebRunner Running Page and my Model Railroad page http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/

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I am thinking of starting to do triathlons. My question is: Am I too old for that and how do I train properly without giving up marathon training? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I would suggest posting this query also on rec.sport.triathlon and actively reading that group.  They will provide tri-specific advice on training, etc. FWIW – I prepped for my first Olympic Distance tri in just over three months from a solid running base.  Finished respectably, too — but since I had so little time I really had to deemphasize running to train properly for swim and bike.  To stay at marathon level running, give yourself more time to train. Tris are great (I’m 36, so no I don’t think you’re too old!). Sam. — ** To Reply: Please delete the "#" sign from the Return Address line **

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Gundi, You’re never too old for triathlons. Most say triathletes don’t peak until late 30s, so you’re not far off. As far as racing, it depends how long the race? You can easily do the short ones. Olympic distance would require a little more structured schedule. You can start by doing your workouts in order of race protocol. Example, Swim first, then run, or run then bike, to get your body used the order of competition. DAN, BA/CPT

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Hi fellow runners, I am 43 yr. old female and did my first marathon last September in  4:08. Since then I was injured a lot and had to look for other ways to keep fit. I dicovered my love for swimming and cycling and am thinking of starting to do triathlons. My question is: Am I too old for that and how do I train properly without giving up marathon training? With the focus on a marathon in November I am only running 4 times covering 50 km, I am swimming 4 times a week, each swim 2 km breaststroke (I am about to learn a proper crawl technique), and I do spinning classes in a gym 3 times a week. With all my training I run/swim or spin/swim doing the exercises one after the other or I do weights at the gym twice a week and swim afterwards. Sunday is a rest day. I would say I am pretty fit for my age but is it enough to focus on triathlons? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks Gundi      

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Anybody can simply ride up to a stop sign, forget to unclip and fall over. It takes real expertise to ride up to a stop sign, unclip the curbside foot perfectly, then shift your weight ever so slightly so that you fall away from the unclipped foot…….into traffic. "The stupidity of your action is directly proportional to the number of people watching." Mike "TriBop" Tennent Remove "nospam." for email reply WebRunner Running Page http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html My Model Railroad Page http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/srr/

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"The stupidity of your action is directly proportional to the number of people watching."

I do quite a bit of skiing and mountain biking with a friend.  He is a better skier, and pushes me there and I am a stronger mountain biker and usually push him a bit.  He often says to me "Why did you ride THAT, now I’m going to have to try".  Anyway, we were riding up at Whistler when we came across a large gravel pit.  We were at the top of it.  There was a steep section probably about 40-50 feet in distance, which led into a large pool of water, probably about 30 feet in distance and looked to be about 1 foot deep.  There was also a group of about 10 people out hiking at the far end of the pool.  For some unknown reason, Ed suddenly goes for it.  He is skidding and sliding and generally looking like he is losing it all the way down the slope until the last couple of feet when he miraculously pulled it all together and calmly peddled through the puddle to the cheers of his spectators.  I thought to myself I’ll show them how its really done (I’m sure you can guess where this is going). Off I start down this steep descent, butt behind the seat, stomach resting on my saddle, I’m in perfect control.  As I approach the end of the descent, I use a little too much front brake, my front wheel goes perpendicular to the rest of my bike as I use my bike as a pole vault to get a nice launch out into the puddle.  I enter head first, and fully submerge.  I get up to a round of laughter from all the spectators, particularly Ed.  I think the dog was even laughing. Craig. IMC ‘97 11:27:57

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Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.) <Susan’s aft water bottle story snipped OK, I’m game for public humiliation.

Me too. A couple of years ago I did a duathlon that was based at the velodrome, Manukau City.  The transition area was in the centre of the velodrome. (Incidentally, this is a nice venue – flat sheltered area with a grandstand for spectators)  T2 – bike to run transition expected you to stop at the middle of the straight, dismount and cross the track to the t-area.  This was my first race with clipless pedals and I came to a stop, failed to unclip and crashed over the edge of the (concrete) track. I ended up head down the slope with the bike still attached to my feet.  I looked up (or down at my feet) to see "hundreds" of spectators peering down at me – this severely traumatized my ego. (OK – maybe a dozen spectators).  I picked myself up and continued – bleeding hip under the bike shorts – sore knee.  To preserve what was left of my dignity, I raced the second run hard and refused to limp thus maintaining my usual BOP postion. Jeff — |At work:        Phone: +64-9-424 5388      Fax:    +64-21-785 097 | |   Program Development/Client Support      Mobile: +64-21-635 185 | |   Aspect Systems Ltd                                             | |   Specialists in software for Real Estate and Human Resources    | |At home:                                   Phone:  +64-9-424 0336 | |   Husband, Dad, Grandad                                          | |   Enthusiastic but slow triathlete                               | |   Justice of the Peace                                           |

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Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.)

I am able to ride my bike into the freight entrance of my building and ride the elevator up to my office. Two winters ago, I come cruising in and clicked out of my  left pedal.  I put my foot down on a freshly, (and quite shiny I might add) waxed floor.  My foot did not stop but instead kept sliding, bringing the rest of me with the bike still attached to my right foot down on the floor.  Besides the embarrassement of falling on your ass in public, I pancaked my front wheel.   The guy who rebuilt my wheel and his wife certainly thought this was funny, as they cracked up.  Maybe it was the way I was waving my arms. jack

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I bought the cheapest pair of Time clipless pedals I could find. They’re plastic and look like they have the half-life of a mayfly. You have to really want to unclip from them. Coming to an "T" intersection, I find a cop directing traffic. There’s no stop sign or stoplight. His hand is up halting traffic from my direction. Big question pops into my mind. "Do I really have to stop — I mean I’m a bicyclist and it’s a T intersection." The Cop knows that this is running through my mind, and just focuses his STOP hand at me with a cold blank stare -amlost daring me to go by. A moment of hesitation at 0.000345 MPH, and I feel my self tipping over. Our eyes are locked. I go down with a crash, and I still cant get out of those Time’s. The cop is still staring at me. "Hey buddy! You alright?!" he says with an evil smile. Yeah right. He was laughing his ass off at me.   That moment haunts me every time I come to a stoplight. Wolfgang – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.) In 1995 for my first 1/2 IM race, I borrowed a behind-the-seat double bottle cage for the first time, the day before my race.  On race morning, I decided to take the bike for a little spin after setting up in transition.  Wonk!  On swinging my leg over the seat to mount, I slammed my thigh into the unfamiliar obstacle *really hard* (it protruded maybe 4 inches above seat level).  I resolved to take this into account next time.  Of course, I completely forgot about it, not once, but twice during the race – mounting after the swim, and again after a pottystop.  I finished the day with three lovely overlapping bruises.   Susan Hall                             (__)       _   Dalhousie University                          .’  `.   IMC’96 12:14 / IMC’97 11:33                  ’"                                                       .       (  )   Triathlon Nova Scotia Homepage               ‘-| )__| :.     http://is.dal.ca/~susanhal/tnshome.html        | |  | |  ’.

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Oh, the bike on the roof rack is the stuff of nightmares. Once, I pulled into a Jack-in-the-box for a fajita pita and came to a comfortable stop at the window. I paid the tab and got my food. That’s when I remembered the bike, and the roof over the drive-through window. I looked up, and the saddle was clearing the roof by a half inch, tops. The people behind me must have though I was Mr. Cool. On a training ride out to McKinney (about 25 miles north of Dallas), we have a series of small-but-steep hills known as the sisters. I ground my way to the top of the first hill and then extracted my bottle to take a drink on the way down. Of course, I dropped the bottle trying to stick it back into cage while coasting. So I stopped at the bottom of the hill and unclipped my left foot. The bottle very politely rolled down the hill to meet me, and I leaned down to the right of the bike to pick it up. Oops! Leaned too far, and over I went. The worst part is when some well-meaning citizen drives up and asks "ARE YOU ALL RIGHT?" This is not what the embarassed cyclist wants to hear, unless the injuries are truly severe. My usual answer is something like "Yes, dammit, go away!" The loss of cool is, after all, worse than the loss of blood. I’m reminded of George Carlin’s description of a cat who runs into a plate-glass window, not seeing the glass, and then walks away coolly as if nothing happened. He tells us to look behind the couch to find our cat convalescing. Or, much earlier, Sid Berman telling us about looking out the plane window (as I am doing right now) and seeing an engine on fire, and being unwilling to scream "FIRE!" because you’d rather die than embarass yourself. He claims that airplane wreckage shows the bottom half of people, still strapped into the seatbelt with the legs crossed nonchalantly. And then there’s the time I attempted a small creek crossing on the expert loop (foolish of this novice) of a mountain bike trail. The front wheel entered the small ditch (which turned out to be just the same size and shape of the wheel, and stuck as if it had suddenly become rooted to the ground. My face hit the dirt so fast I never ever saw the approach. It was stick-BLAM! The very definition of a face plant, and greatly entertaining to my riding buddies, one of whom was my girlfriend at the time. But the resulting two black eyes really impressed my clients. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve got a pedal story.  Any mountain bikers out there?  I was riding one day with some new mtb clipless pedals, the kind with elastomers instead of springs.  It was quite muddy that day, since we were traveling mostly on washed out fire roads.  As my bike, body, and pedals accumulated more and more grime, it became progressively harder and harder to clip out.   Through one particularly technical stretch, I lost my balance and attempted to click out with my right foot.  No luck.  My right shoe was frozen to the pedal.  Fortunately I was moving slowly, so I "gently" fell over on my right side – uninjured, except for the ego.  I lay there on the ground for several minutes, because my left foot wouldn’t click out either!  I ended up completing the ride with my stocking feet resting on top of my shoes, which were still clipped in.  My riding partners were less than sympathetic.  I took a lot of abuse that day.   I’ve still got the pedals if anyone wants to buy them.  Practically unused. John

Rick Denney Remember–free advice is worth what you pay for it!

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 Here’s two, one funny one serious… One: On a training ride I approached an intersection with a stop light.  I decided I didn’t want to clip out and saw a convenient traffic sign, so I thought I would just lean on it until the light changed.  Poor choice… the sign was new in the ground and as a result it S-L-O-W-L-Y tilted over.  I tilted too.  I had Speedplays, which you probably know take 18 degrees rotation to unclip.  By the time I tried to twist out I was too close to the ground.  I had to lie there and take the darn shoe off before I could get up, dust off my bruised ego, and consoled myself with the fact that there were only a dozen or so cars that saw this. Two:  I had rebuilt a bike and was ready to take it for a test ride.  As I pedaled off, I saw someone I know walking so I slowly pedaled and talked for a while.  Decided to show off by sprinting away.  Bad idea, I had forgotten to screw in the right clipless pedal and it snapped off just as I jumped on it (you know, out of saddle and all).  I went down hard on a concrete road, banged up my elbow and ankle and had some good road rash on my shoulder and butt.  Fortunately, I had put on my helmet because I could feel it absorb the impact.  Later inspection showed it to have cracked and I’m sure it saved me from being a vegetable.

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Greetings…what better way to de-lurk than a horribly embarrassing anecdote? My clipless "rapid descent" took place in front of my kids! We were out for a family ride, and I had my new clipless pedals on my MTB when we hit a sandy patch-I had just turned to my son to say "Be careful as you turn your handlebars, becaus……splat! Down I went! Needless to say, this was hysterical for a 6 and 8 year old! Thanks for having me relive the trauma! Andrew G.

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I had just bought my first "real" bike with clipless pedals and was not accustomed to them yet. I was coming back into town and there was this 4 way stop which I must admit that I would usually be able to cruise up to and see that no traffic was coming the previous times (it was not a neavily travelled area).  This time there was traffic and a station wagon with a couple of kids sitting in the back were right in front of me. Since I had gotten cocky with my ability to balance and hoping that the traffic would clear if I gave it a little more time.  As I approached the wagon, I realized that my plan was flawed and that I needed to stop.  Well this calculation took longer than I had.  I was going very slow and could not clip out.  The next thing I knew, I was falling over like the guy on his tricycle on "Laugh-In". After realizing that I was not hurt, I looked up and the kids in the wagon were almost in tears with laughter! I could do nothing but laugh with them!

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I’ve got a pedal story.  Any mountain bikers out there?  I was riding one day with some new mtb clipless pedals, the kind with elastomers instead of springs.  It was quite muddy that day, since we were traveling mostly on washed out fire roads.  As my bike, body, and pedals accumulated more and more grime, it became progressively harder and harder to clip out.   Through one particularly technical stretch, I lost my balance and attempted to click out with my right foot.  No luck.  My right shoe was frozen to the pedal.  Fortunately I was moving slowly, so I "gently" fell over on my right side – uninjured, except for the ego.  I lay there on the ground for several minutes, because my left foot wouldn’t click out either!  I ended up completing the ride with my stocking feet resting on top of my shoes, which were still clipped in.  My riding partners were less than sympathetic.  I took a lot of abuse that day.   I’ve still got the pedals if anyone wants to buy them.  Practically unused. John

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You know, when all the blood in your body is going to your muscles…and none to your brain, it’s not that hard to imagine.  I have a story, unrelated to clipless pedals, but embarassing nonetheless. It was after my second duathlon (before I did any triathlons).  I was coming back from the Lehigh Valley to the Philadelphia area, and my girlfriend needed to stop at the Mall for something.  If you know anything about the King of Prussia Mall, you’d know about the beautiful parking garage they built a few years ago. I had my bike on my car (roof rack…parking garage…getting the picture???).  I realized the problem about 5 nanoseconds too late…BLAM! The bike slammed into a yellow "warning" sign.  The rack was actually ripped off my car, and slid back about two feet, leaving nice gashes in the roof of my car.  Luckily, I had a relatively inexpensive steel-framed bike (which I still use as my generic road bike).  So, there’s a little wrinke in the frame and a few scrapes in my car.  It could have been alot worse. You can stop laughing now… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.) In 1995 for my first 1/2 IM race, I borrowed a behind-the-seat double bottle cage for the first time, the day before my race.  On race morning, I decided to take the bike for a little spin after setting up in transition.  Wonk!  On swinging my leg over the seat to mount, I slammed my thigh into the unfamiliar obstacle *really hard* (it protruded maybe 4 inches above seat level).  I resolved to take this into account next time.  Of course, I completely forgot about it, not once, but twice during the race – mounting after the swim, and again after a pottystop.  I finished the day with three lovely overlapping bruises.   Susan Hall                             (__)       _   Dalhousie University                          .’  `.   IMC’96 12:14 / IMC’97 11:33                  ’"                                                       .       (  )   Triathlon Nova Scotia Homepage               ‘-| )__| :.     http://is.dal.ca/~susanhal/tnshome.html        | |  | |  ’.

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Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.)

OK, I’m game. In what was only my third year in this sport, when the BLTS was alive and well, I went down to do the race in Delaware. It was a flat, fast course, but with a couple of hairpin turns. Anyway, I was cruising through the course when I might have took the turn too fast. I was going through fine when I hit a ditch in the road. I lost control of the bike; the last thing I saw was this huge tree in the far corner of the road right in front of me… Luckily, I was still leaning into my turn at the time. The bike hit head on, but I fell through the side of the tree. What wasn’t so lucky was that I landed in a huge thorn bush. I got up, too a casual check of my body, saw it bleeding in places and told myself "I can finish this race" (I was thinking stupidly at the time). I got to the bike, and saw my fork turned into an "s" and my wheel turned into a potato chip. Anyway, I got picked up and transported to the medical tent so they can treat my wounds and pick numerous thorns out of my hands. My first accident, I’ll never forget it… "Iron" Pete Priolo IMC’96 – 10:36:37    IMC’97 – 10:42:53 1998 Schedule so far… Gulf Coast Tri – May 9 – unconfirmed IMC’98 – August 30 – unconfirmed

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Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.)

This has happened to me twice! Coming off the bike in the Mount Snow (Vermont) Triathlon (it is a kick ass hilly ride) I spotted a volunteer who showed me to my bike spot. I racked my bike and asked the volunteer which way to run. She looked at me and asked, in a deadpan voice, "Aren’t you going to take off your helmet?" The second time it happened was Montauk (New York). I was using pedal platforms and was concentrating so much on just hopping off my bike and running (I come from the running side of triathlon) I forgot my helmet! I was about 100 yards into the run before I realized it was still on my head. I took it off and passed it to a lady rollerblading and asked her to bring it back to the transition. Well, I got my helmet back after a race volunteer asked me if I had heard him yell "You have your helmet on!" It gets more interesting because I was listenting to the stories at the awards cerimony when a lady told the story of some idiot runner passing off his helmet to her. I think I’ll stick to just plain old running where all I need is a pair of shoes. Andrew Heiz

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Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.) In 1995 for my first 1/2 IM race, I borrowed a behind-the-seat double bottle cage for the first time, the day before my race.  On race morning, I decided to take the bike for a little spin after setting up in transition.  Wonk!  On swinging my leg over the seat to mount, I slammed my thigh into the unfamiliar obstacle *really hard* (it protruded maybe 4 inches above seat level).  I resolved to take this into account next time.  Of course, I completely forgot about it, not once, but twice during the race – mounting after the swim, and again after a pottystop.  I finished the day with three lovely overlapping bruises.   Susan Hall                             (__)       _   Dalhousie University                          .’  `.   IMC’96 12:14 / IMC’97 11:33                  ’"                                                       .       (  )   Triathlon Nova Scotia Homepage               ‘-| )__| :.     http://is.dal.ca/~susanhal/tnshome.html        | |  | |  ’.

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Any takers for a new thread on this topic? (Looking forward to some clipless pedal stories, I know there are a few of those around.)

<Susan’s aft water bottle story snipped OK, I’m game for public humiliation. My most dramatic clipless pedal fiasco took place about two seasons ago and was broadcast on the public airwaves. I was riding alone and approached a construction zone with a lane closed and one of those guys with a handheld radio and sign on a pole that says "Stop" on one side and "Slow" on the other. Needless to say, he displayed "Stop" for me. I’d been riding clipless for four years at that point, so I can’t claim inexperience. It was simple brain fade; I just forgot to unclip. Not even a last-minute panic. I just came to a stop and slowly toppled toward the shoulder. Unfortunately, the shoulder was a sea of mud, into which I summarily plopped–still clipped in. The good part was that it was a very soft place to land. I quickly unclipped and became a biped again–no real damage. Not so good was the pattern of mud that started on the right side of my helmet, continued again at my right shoulder and down my upper arm, picked up again above my pelvis and continued from there unbroken along thigh and calf to my foot. It was as if someone had painted one side of my body NC mud red. As I collected what little dignity I could and started to work on the explanation that would be required of me back the office, the lane monitor raised his radio and spoke into it: "You aren’t going to believe what this bicycle guy just did. Check him out when he comes through." He did. David Schoonmaker

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Hello all,   I was wondering if there was a List server out there that I could subscribe to? A list server that would update automatically me via E-mail on the latest, issues, events, equipments in the triathlon world.

Well, I don’t know if it is what you want, but the Dead Runner’s Society has a Tri list that is the best place on the internet.  We are a group of buddies that do triathlon, not a bunch of tri-nerds talking shop, although some threads can act that way. RST is more factual and gear nerdy in my humble opinion, but hey, I like it here too. — Ironman Canada 1998 Rob Blomquist aka TriDog Seattle, WA http://www.accessone.com/~robb

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Hello all,   I was wondering if there was a List server out there that I could subscribe to? A list server that would update automatically me via E-mail on the latest, issues, events, equipments in the triathlon world.   Let me know.

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there is a four day race in Minnesota in August.  You do it with a partner.  You have to ride a bike 200 miles first day 230 the second run 50 miles the third and canoe 50 miles the fourth day…has anyone out there heard of this or done it.  If you have I would like info…I have a friend who wants to do this and I wondered what it is like rundonnrun

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: there is a four day race in Minnesota in August.  You do it with a : partner.  You have to ride a bike 200 miles first day 230 the second run : 50 miles the third and canoe 50 miles the fourth day…has anyone out : there heard of this or done it.  If you have I would like info…I have a : friend who wants to do this and I wondered what it is like Hope you got a GOOD seat for that bike!

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4:25:41.  The run took me 1:47:26; less portapotty stops, I reckon I did a blinding 10:30 per mile, woo hoo!  But y’know what?  Doesn’t matter. ‘Cause TriBaby is now the Southwest Regional Long Course Champion Athena, so there!!! Tri-Baby

And you recieved one of the COOLEST awards I have seen, too!  And a race report out in record time, too!! Santa Barbara was an absolute BLAST!! I have never had as much fun in a race as I did at this one… largely due to the fact that I knew so many people (I’m a local) and specifically because I spent a lot of time (racing and otherwise) with Tricia, Kurian and Skippy!  Also met up with Bill Read, Bill Mason, Tony Walsh (12th overall.. CONGRATS TONY!), Steve Blum and Timothy Carlson (what a hoot he was in the massage tent!!).  I highly recommend to everyone to meet up with fellow rst’ers at the races– it has been the highlight of this season’s races for me.  Oh.. and, by all means, meet up with them NOT at the races, as well!!!!!! Santa Barbara was also the LONGEST race I have done.  I was very intimidated by it and am still on cloud 9 having finished it in relative comfort (okay.. my feet were on fire.. that concrete was unforgiving!!) and ALMOST meeting my goal of 4 hours (4:02 and change).  It gives me hope of doing a half IM next year (anyone else jumping that hurdle next season??  We can muddle through it "together".). Congrats to everyone!! Roxanne

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Santa Barbara County Triathlon – Gold’s Gym Long Course USA Triathlon Southwest Regional Long Course Championships Saturday, August 24, 1996 1-mile Swim, 34-mile Bike, 10-mile Run Heavy Fog = Can’t see the buoys (or even the shore once you’re out there) And wait a second, HOW does the course go? My goggles are fogged up before the countdown even begins. We’re off!  Start initially OK, then boxed in and cut off by swimmers colliding in front of me and others squeezing in from the sides—"Excuse me!!!" Where is the first buoy??  Oh, ok; geez, the swells keep hiding it. Around the buoy ok, crowd spreads out a bit, and GLUG somebody swims right on top of me, slamming my head down just as I was about to breathe; I swallow half the Pacific, yecchh. Wait a minute, why is everyone swimming back toward the beach??  I thought we were simply making a 90-degree turn at the buoy.  Ummmm…..  Zig zagging, weird, just follow the swimmers in front of you and hope for the best (ha!). Settle down, warm up, start to feel okay.  Very choppy, swells defeat any sort of rhythm you try to establish, send you off course as they charge obliquely toward shore.  Cannot see a thing! Very hard to navigate:  Fog, swells, fogged up goggles.  Constantly have to raise your head to see where you’re going and where the other swimmers are. Geez, you could be out in the middle of the Pacific for all you know!  Ouch!  My QR’s starting to chaff my neck—never had that happen before. Turnaround confuses the hell outta me, but at last I’m on my way back. Feeling pretty good, wish I could SEE better so I could take advantage of it. There’s the gal in the orange wetsuit who clocked me at the start; ok, I started with her, gonna finish ahead of her!  GET HER!  Motivates me, I swim strong, keep watching for that flash of orange (wait, is that her or a buoy???). Passing many different colored caps from earlier waves….chaff, chaff, chaff, damn that’s uncomfortable…..Final buoy in sight!  Still can’t see the beach though.  Pass Orange Wetsuit, round the buoy, head for shore. Swells help you in the last few meters.  Stop, stand, hit the split button—35:56!!!  Oh, (expletive), that’s awful!  Wetsuit off in the surf—Eeeeyow!  That is COLD. Run up the beach through arch of balloons.  Hey, Skip!  Has Roxanne come through already?  Yep, two minutes ago.  Ouch!  (Roxanne says she’s a lousy swimmer and was sure I’d beat her out of the water  ) Trudge numbly through the sand to the TA, trot urgently over the asphalt, disgusted with my performance.  Get to my spot, and what the hell is this?  How rude, sand in my basin.  Some enterprising athlete chose to help himself to my footbath.  Grrumble grumble grummble. Fumble with shorts, cleats, etc.  Amber lenses in my Oakleys are covered with mist from the heavy fog.  Pause to wipe them dry two or three times before they’re clear enough to put on.  Lousy transition!  5 minutes from the time I stopped swimming to the time I hop on my bike. Drove this course yesterday, tough:  Subtle hills, narrow roads, lots of shallow climbing mixed in with occasional steeper stuff.  Descents and the faster rolling sections very technical, some rough pavement.  A real challenge ahead… Why do so many people ride on the left side of the lane, blocking??? Across the freeway, head for the hills!  Twists and turns, climbing begins, gradual but draining.  Sit back, gear down, spin. Sun is breaking through the fog over the hills now, the layer of fog on my amber lenses intensifies the glare, yow.  Wipe ‘em off with your glove, Ah! First major descent, and very technical, Toro Canyon Road.  Here I go, believe it, it’s happened AGAIN, the second time in as many races, and the damned thing is stuck in my upper right arm like a bloody hypodermic and I’m whizzing down this twisty road at 30 mph and can’t knock it away. OW!  Ok, a short straightaway, get it off.  Sheesh.   Twists and turns, watch for that abrupt, hidden left turn…there it is! Slow it down but hold as much speed through it as you can…yow, that was a bit close!  Thank yous to the volunteers.  Hammering the flat now, oh, gawd, damned stinger’s still stuck in my arm, get it off!  No wonder it hurts so much.  Urrrgh. #1420 ahead of me is blocking, showing no sign of moving over.  I creep up behind on his right (I know, shouldn’t have done it, but I was exasperated) when he suddenly decides to move over.  Urrgh.  He yells, I yell, we’re both pissed, it’s ugly, then Kurian shows up from behind and puts me in my place, taunting me with "Well, if you wouldn’t suck wheel so much!", laughing at my fury.  #1420 puts it into testosterone overdrive to drop me.  Hrrumph. Hammer with Kurian, side by side, 1-meter apart.  Who’s this guy drafting us, though?  In a very friendly voice, Kurian tells him, "Dude, you GOTTA get off my wheel or you’re gonna get DQ’ed."  Guy doesn’t seem to understand.  2 minutes later, I tell him, "Look, I don’t know if you’re doing that on purpose, but I wouldn’t do it if I were you." Narrow road, I struggle to avoid drafting Kurian, drop back as road ascends gradually.  Fog breaking up to reveal a gorgeous day, the incomparable Santa Ynez mountains rising majestically above as we labor through their foothills. @14 or 15 miles, Kurian ~20 meters ahead of me, spies Roxanne up ahead. He catches her and I’m still 25 meters back when we hit one of the nastier climbs.  Ugh.  Use the 25.  Grind grind grind.  "Where’s the chair lift?" a fellow racer inquires. Whew.  Over the top, Roxanne and Kurian outta sight, I descend like a bat outta hell to catch them.  Get ‘em at about mile 17 or 18, drop Roxanne, Kurian stays with me. Rolling, descending, climbing.  Pass many, passed by a few (always on the climbs).  Don’t eat/drink very much—course is too technical to take hands from bars much.  Thank god for JetStream!  I get down half a PowerBar, lots of water, a little Cytomax, a little MetaboMax. On a long straightaway with a slight drop, look who’s here up ahead! Motor on by #1420 without a word.  Short-lived victory—he catches and drops me a mile or two later on the next climb, oh well.  Story of my life. Climb back up Toro Canyon KILLS me.  "Kurian, remind me again:  WHY do we do this?"  Major Grind.  Why do I feel like I’m about to fall over on this grade?? Yep, I blew my wad on this ride, and I know better, darn it.  Felt like the bike wasn’t long enough to give me a sufficient cushion going into the run, so hammered my legs into oblivion.  Well, might as well finish it up for all it’s worth now.  HAMMER the descent back to the beach, but never catch Kurian again after that bloody climb up Toro. Back to the beach!  Fog’s still in down there.  I’m gonna make it in from the bike under 2 hours, yes! Enter the TA just behind #1420, feel kinda guilty for being so pissed at him. Bike split:  1:55:36, average speed 17.4 mph.  Not bad!  1:03 T2, respectable. #1420 jogs by on his way out and says to me, "Hey, I’m sorry, I was rude out there."  I reply "Oh, god, so was I, I’m sorry too!  No hard feelings, have a good run!"  I feel MUCH better!  (Kurian later remarked, "I think he bore the brunt of that bee sting," and I sheepishly agreed). Ready to run, let’s go!  Trot out of the TA straight to the Porta-John, thank god it’s there.  Oh, no TP, yeeeuck.  Oh well…. OK, here we go.  Trot trot trot Oh man, am I thrashed! Flat (thank god) along a paved path skirting the gorgeous beach, lined with palm trees and neatly clipped swath of green grass on either side. Very SoCal! Feel really wiped, and all I can hope is that maybe it’s just the usual "Legs need a mile or two to warm up to running" bit, but…. Roxanne flies by like a happy gazelle around 3/4 mile, surprise surprise! "Go get ‘em, girl!" I order. PowerGel just before the mile marker, Strawberry Banana, yum!  Hope this kicks in soon! Hurt hurt hurt.  Can’t even get HR up, hovers around 160, even though feels like I’m pushing; I know, I know, my legs are simply fried.  *sigh* Survival mode.  Try to focus on the scenery, you’re a tourist, so just do the Tourist Trot.  Enjoy beautiful Santa Barbara!  Hurt like hell while you’re doing it! Mile 2, parking lot, then The Hill.  It’s ok, mentally prepared for it, Kurian warned me, it’s not too bad.  See the first woman (Bettina Ernst) heading in and cheer her on.  (I wish I was headed that direction…) Trudge up the hill, maybe 1/4 mile.  Flattens a bit, then more gradual uphill to the 3-mile marker. MORE gradual uphill, gawd.  Here comes #1420, slap hands and exchange encouragement.  Whew, crest the hill, turn left down into a park, across a steel footbridge, into residential streets. Flats & slight uphills.  Roxanne’s returning when I’m just past mile 4, Kurian’s 1/4 mile behind her.  Hit the aid station before the left turn down a steep half-mile to the turnaround.  Yes, we have to run right back up what we’ve just run down, ugh. Cruel, but not unexpected.  Hit the bottom and kiss the 5-mile sign, turn and head back up the hill, on my way home!  Plod, plod, plod.  Man walking ahead is moving faster! PortaJohn stop at the aid station at the top, my intestines are grateful, but it sure wastes time! Thank heaven, slight downhills most of the way back, even some definite downhills!  Still have to walk the aid stations to maximize hydration. Keep cramming down PowerGel.  Don’t think I like the LemonLime much, but Strawberry Banana and Vanilla are great! Serious FATIGUE.  Come on, it’s all downhill, all downhill, keep going! So tired I can’t even use the downhills effectively to gain time; I’m still getting passed by everything on two legs. Sun is out full force now, it’s hot.  Whew!  Mile 7 to 8, that great downhill, back to the flats.  Through the crowded parking lots and now-bustling beachside path.  Struggle to keep moving, hard to

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