Question:

Good Morning How about Conti’s Cycle & Fittness.They are located in Clarmont & they just finished moving into a NEWER & LARGER store.You can call IRA or JD at 352 243 3030.YOU WILL BE GLAD THAT YOU CALLED THEM Danny

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I’m doing the Disneyworld Triathlon in September, and would like to ship my bike to a good shop before the race rather than entrust it to the baggage handling goons. Are there any reputable bike shops in Orlando tucked in among the T-Shirt and tacky souvenir stands?  I’d like to ship my bike to a shop that can re-assemble and check it out for me prior to the race. Thanks! John A. Franczyk/Park Ridge, Illinois

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There is a great group of stores in Virginia- Conte’s bikes, and I believe they have a store in Orlando as well look at www.contebikes.com – I could be wrong about the Fla. store-

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I’m doing the Disneyworld Triathlon in September, and would like to ship my bike to a good shop before the race rather than entrust it to the baggage handling goons. Are there any reputable bike shops in Orlando tucked in among the T-Shirt and tacky souvenir stands?  I’d like to ship my bike to a shop that can re-assemble and check it out for me prior to the race. Thanks! John A. Franczyk/Park Ridge, Illinois

John, Two suggestions for you: 1.  Orange Cycle – great full service shop, (IMHO) more in tune to roadies. 407-422-5552 or www.orangecycleorlando.com. 2.  South Lake Bicycles 352-394-3848.  Work alot with CFT/Clermont Series/Great Floridian and very responive (again IMHO) to triathlete needs. Clermont is about 15-20 minutes west of Disney. See you there. JJB/Davenport FL.

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John, I can highly recommend South Lake Bicycles (352-394-3848). Mark the owner is great and will do anything to help .He works closely with the Triathlon training center. CHJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m doing the Disneyworld Triathlon in September, and would like to ship my bike to a good shop before the race rather than entrust it to the baggage handling goons. Are there any reputable bike shops in Orlando tucked in among the T-Shirt and tacky souvenir stands?  I’d like to ship my bike to a shop that can re-assemble and check it out for me prior to the race. Thanks! John A. Franczyk/Park Ridge, Illinois

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Question:

I think the chips are great. I ran a race on Thanksgiving and was checking the race results by the end of the day on the net. Barry Halligan

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I think the chips are great. I ran a race on Thanksgiving and was checking the race results by the end of the day on the net.

That’s not really due to the chip; many races can post results same day that are not using the chip. — Tom Kelley

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    This is true, however, Tom’s suggestion takes on much more volunteer/staff labor, especially for 1000+ participant races.  But to rent chips costs $$, and is less error-prone, so take your pick. happy trails, rich in austin, tx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the chips are great. I ran a race on Thanksgiving and was checking the race results by the end of the day on the net. That’s not really due to the chip; many races can post results same day that are not using the chip. — Tom Kelley

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At the Indy Mini a sponsor put their name on the velcro strap and the participant kept that piece of the ‘apparatus’.  At the end we simply popped open the velcro and handed over the chip.  It would seem to be a lot of trouble for both the runners and the race organizers if the velcro had to be returned…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s funny, but the one I used was actually held on with Velcro so they could take it off easier at the end of the race.  They take the chip and leave the velcro strap in in your shoe laces. Isn’t that they way they all work? Thanks,         Roger The chips around LI are round grid like things. They used to have velcro straps but not any more. I think the race directors didn’t get enough of them back (I’ve got a few, they are great for holding my pants back while I bike to work. On another related note I wonder how soon before a shoe company stitches a velcro strap just for the chip. Remind me to patten that idea. Andy

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On another related note I wonder how soon before a shoe company stitches a velcro strap just for the chip.

Too late. Quintana Roo (triathlon related products) has one out for triathletes. It’s padded for comfort. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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The way I understand the chip system,  the first person to cross the finish line would not necessarily be the winner, right? Someone behind him could have ran a faster race but crossed the line later. Has this ever happened to anyone’s knowledge?

It’s possible in a race with a "wave" start like triathlons commonly have, but even they start the Pro’s first so it’s unlikely. It’s more likely to happen in the age groups. USATF only recognizes the gun time, not chip adjusted times, for scoring a race. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

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Yes, you just HAVE to be smarter than the chip. Similar to improperly pinning  on the race number, but I’d bet you want make the same mistake again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sounds like your own fault for 1) forgetting your chip 2) not tying it on securely I see this as operator error, not chip error. Hi, Permit me a rant. At yesterday’s Thanksgiving race I was standing on the starting line talking with a friend when the race director mentions something about the chip. This made me look down to see I didn’t have mine. I sprinted back to my car tied it on and sprinted back to the starting line. Not the kind of warm up I would have liked but that is the price of being forgetful. Well, I’m running along in the first mile and for an unknown reason I look down at my shoe to see that the chip had fallen off! I kept running thinking it would be better to do the race and find the chip later. I ran across the finish and through the chute and back out to the first mile to search. Needless to say I didn’t find it. Turns out I wasn’t scored. I would have taken 3 in my age group too! Not that I’m complaining about loosing an award, I’ve got enough of them gathering dust (forgive me if I sound calous). But race directors should be aware that chips do fall off or are forgotten and can be easily mixed up. Having a scoring chip system doesn’t eliminate all scoring problems. There should be a back up plan in the event of failure. I’m sure that chips are the wave of the future and will eventually be the norm. But in the meantime they aren’t fool proof yet. Peace, Andy

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Andrew, sorry about your problem but I love the Chip.  And it sounds as if you’er to blame, not the race or RD.  Like running the wrong course or losing your bib. Sorry but not much sympathy here. I hope all races go to the Chip, it’s the best way of scoring. The way I understand the chip system,  the first person to cross the finish line would not necessarily be the winner, right? Someone behind him could have ran a faster race but crossed the line later. Has this ever happened to anyone’s knowledge?

The chip, like your bib number, is essential to being a participant in the event.  If you don’t wear your number, you can be disqualified from the event (USATF rule) and, though it’s not a rule, the chip is handled in the same manner, you have to wear it to be considered a participant in the event; it’s your own responsibility. I don’t know of any chip scorers who use a backup system, other than the second set of mats at the finish line.  The fact is that the system works so well, it doesn’t really require a backup. As far as the first person to cross the finish line not necessarily being the winner, this is not possible under USATF rules, which indicate that the race officially starts at the sound of the gun.  There is a widespread misconception about the chip that has people beliveing that they will always get a chip/net time and that time will be their official time.  The fact is that most races, other than large marathons, don’t provide net times (I know this to be true of many chip scorers) and would rather provide a split time if the equipment is available.  It seems to me that having a split would be more valuable than having a net time. — Tom Kelley

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The way I understand the chip system,  the first person to cross the finish line would not necessarily be the winner, right? Someone behind him could have ran a faster race but crossed the line later. Has this ever happened to anyone’s knowledge? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andrew, sorry about your problem but I love the Chip.  And it sounds as if you’er to blame, not the race or RD.  Like running the wrong course or losing your bib. Sorry but not much sympathy here. I hope all races go to the Chip, it’s the best way of scoring.    David "IndyRunr"

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regarding the chip gone a-wandering midrace,

…or maybe swallow it before each race Now…that would certainly change the meaning of "post race recovery" wouldnt it?!

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Chip times are not used in official timing. I would be unlikely for your scenario to happen. I don’t doubt it could but unlikely. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The way I understand the chip system,  the first person to cross the finish line would not necessarily be the winner, right? Someone behind him could have ran a faster race but crossed the line later. Has this ever happened to anyone’s knowledge? Andrew, sorry about your problem but I love the Chip.  And it sounds as if you’er to blame, not the race or RD.  Like running the wrong course or losing your bib. Sorry but not much sympathy here. I hope all races go to the Chip, it’s the best way of scoring.    David "IndyRunr"

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Jennifer – or maybe swallow it before each race

See "wrong diet?" thread. Palmer

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Make it mandatory for the entire population and you’ll get my vote. –Dirk

Sure, and put a big 666 in front of it and tell people that they can’t buy or sell unless they have the chip. Jim Bartlett

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Sounds like your own fault for 1) forgetting your chip 2) not tying it on securely I see this as operator error, not chip error.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Permit me a rant. At yesterday’s Thanksgiving race I was standing on the starting line talking with a friend when the race director mentions something about the chip. This made me look down to see I didn’t have mine. I sprinted back to my car tied it on and sprinted back to the starting line. Not the kind of warm up I would have liked but that is the price of being forgetful. Well, I’m running along in the first mile and for an unknown reason I look down at my shoe to see that the chip had fallen off! I kept running thinking it would be better to do the race and find the chip later. I ran across the finish and through the chute and back out to the first mile to search. Needless to say I didn’t find it. Turns out I wasn’t scored. I would have taken 3 in my age group too! Not that I’m complaining about loosing an award, I’ve got enough of them gathering dust (forgive me if I sound calous). But race directors should be aware that chips do fall off or are forgotten and can be easily mixed up. Having a scoring chip system doesn’t eliminate all scoring problems. There should be a back up plan in the event of failure. I’m sure that chips are the wave of the future and will eventually be the norm. But in the meantime they aren’t fool proof yet. Peace, Andy

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There should be a back up plan in the event of failure. Backup Plan for your next race: Make certain the chip is properly laced in under a double-knot.   – Mike

That’s funny, but the one I used was actually held on with Velcro so they could take it off easier at the end of the race.  They take the chip and leave the velcro strap in in your shoe laces. Isn’t that they way they all work? Thanks,         Roger

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That’s funny, but the one I used was actually held on with Velcro so they could take it off easier at the end of the race.  They take the chip and leave the velcro strap in in your shoe laces. Isn’t that they way they all work? Thanks,         Roger

The chips around LI are round grid like things. They used to have velcro straps but not any more. I think the race directors didn’t get enough of them back (I’ve got a few, they are great for holding my pants back while I bike to work. On another related note I wonder how soon before a shoe company stitches a velcro strap just for the chip. Remind me to patten that idea. Andy

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Backup Plan for your next race: Make certain the chip is properly laced in under a double-knot. I suppose as a fool-proof method, but perhaps extreme, you could have it surgically implanted beneath the skin.

Make it mandatory for the entire population and you’ll get my vote. –Dirk

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Andrew, Well, look on the bright side, bet you won’t forget your chip again. You don’t sound callous.You’ve  earned your awards!  Bet that sprint deserved an award.:) Laurie" we made mistakes, we learn" brillant huh?

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Backup Plan for your next race: Make certain the chip is properly laced in under a double-knot.

I suppose as a fool-proof method, but perhaps extreme, you could have it surgically implanted beneath the skin. Jennifer – or maybe swallow it before each race

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Permit me a rant.

I almost forgot mine the first race also.  However it worked out super and now I’m spoiled wishing more races could have the chip. But you do have a good point, and I hope they have a backup plan if something goes wrong. Roger

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Permit me a rant. At yesterday’s Thanksgiving race I was standing on the starting line talking with a friend when the race director mentions something about the chip. This made me look down to see I didn’t have mine. I sprinted back to my car tied it on and sprinted back to the starting line. Not the kind of warm up I would have liked but that is the price of being forgetful. Well, I’m running along in the first mile and for an unknown reason I look down at my shoe to see that the chip had fallen off! I kept running thinking it would be better to do the race and find the chip later. I ran across the finish and through the chute and back out to the first mile to search. Needless to say I didn’t find it. Turns out I wasn’t scored. I would have taken 3 in my age group too! Not that I’m complaining about loosing an award, I’ve got enough of them gathering dust (forgive me if I sound calous). But race directors should be aware that chips do fall off or are forgotten and can be easily mixed up. Having a scoring chip system doesn’t eliminate all scoring problems. There should be a back up plan in the event of failure. I’m sure that chips are the wave of the future and will eventually be the norm. But in the meantime they aren’t fool proof yet.

Yeah, well you’ve proved that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peace, Andy

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Andrew, sorry about your problem but I love the Chip.  And it sounds as if you’er to blame, not the race or RD.  Like running the wrong course or losing your bib. Sorry but not much sympathy here. I hope all races go to the Chip, it’s the best way of scoring.    David "IndyRunr"

Response:

Hi, Permit me a rant. At yesterday’s Thanksgiving race I was standing on the starting line talking with a friend when the race director mentions something about the chip. This made me look down to see I didn’t have mine. I sprinted back to my car tied it on and sprinted back to the starting line. Not the kind of warm up I would have liked but that is the price of being forgetful. Well, I’m running along in the first mile and for an unknown reason I look down at my shoe to see that the chip had fallen off! I kept running thinking it would be better to do the race and find the chip later. I ran across the finish and through the chute and back out to the first mile to search. Needless to say I didn’t find it. Turns out I wasn’t scored. I would have taken 3 in my age group too! Not that I’m complaining about loosing an award, I’ve got enough of them gathering dust (forgive me if I sound calous). But race directors should be aware that chips do fall off or are forgotten and can be easily mixed up. Having a scoring chip system doesn’t eliminate all scoring problems. There should be a back up plan in the event of failure. I’m sure that chips are the wave of the future and will eventually be the norm. But in the meantime they aren’t fool proof yet. Peace, Andy

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Question:

    Its a little easier running first then cycling…a fellow I used to train and compete with in duathlons  always hated the final run, saying after you get off of your bike everything seems in slow motion… Not to mention the "squirrelly" or "lead" foot analogy made in other posts.            Give it a try though…I was a cyclist only until challenged by my friend mentioned above..and I  learned to really love the transition.

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should I jump off my bike and go running or am I gonna end up killing myself?

I doubt you will die . If you are going from a easy ride to a run you should be fine. If you have been hammering on the bike you may find that your legs don’t cooperate, you may get cramps, your legs might feel like lead (or bricks). Just keep running the feeling will go away in a little bit. YMMV. Cheers, Sanjay

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You’ll find out soon enough . . — Ivo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,  I have just started cycling to work (16 miles a day) I normally go for my run when I get infrom work (2 – 5 miles) should I jump off my bike and go running or am I gonna end up killing myself? Im not super fit but I want to be (hence the cycling to work) and hope to do my first marathon next year

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Triathletes do this kind of training regulary to prepare themselves for the bike run transition. Your legs might feel squirrely in the beginning of the run, but then you should be okay. If you add swimming to the routine you would be prepared to do your first triathlon. Johanna "forever young" Young

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Jsoul, I liked your analogy about "feel squirrelly" because it reminded me of when I first started motorcycle riding.  It was really weird to get back into a car and try to drive right afterwards. I tried to train for the Bix 7 by riding a bicycle but I should have run more.  My mistake.  Someone looked up my numbers for the Bix 7 and said I was in the upper 70%.  Good grief that means I was in the lower 30%.  Ugh. I hope I do better next year. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Triathletes do this kind of training regulary to prepare themselves for the bike run transition. Your legs might feel squirrely in the beginning of the run, but then you should be okay. If you add swimming to the routine you would be prepared to do your first triathlon. Johanna "forever young" Young

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Hi,  I have just started cycling to work (16 miles a day) I normally go for my run when I get infrom work (2 – 5 miles) should I jump off my bike and go running or am I gonna end up killing myself? Im not super fit but I want to be (hence the cycling to work) and hope to do my first marathon next year

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Question:

I’m setting up a basic, no-frills website for some friends who are the race director and staff for the Santa Rosa Island Triathlon. I’m by no means a seasoned webmaster, and I was wondering if any of you would mind dropping by the site and letting me know if it (1) provides the info you want without making you dig for it, (2) is asthetically pleasing, and (3) is well organized. It would be great to hear from the intended audience to see how far off target I am. It’s at http://www.sritri.org/ Thanks! Tom "trying to work my way up from sprint tris to a 1/2 IM" Henderson

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Hey Tom, I think you did a great job on the SRI website. If it wasn’t such a long drive for me I’d be there. In all honesty I couldn’t make any additional recommendations for the site – pretty damn slick as it is. Cheers and good luck with the race. Bernie Sher – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m setting up a basic, no-frills website for some friends who are the race director and staff for the Santa Rosa Island Triathlon. I’m by no means a seasoned webmaster, and I was wondering if any of you would mind dropping by the site and letting me know if it (1) provides the info you want without making you dig for it, (2) is asthetically pleasing, and (3) is well organized. It would be great to hear from the intended audience to see how far off target I am. It’s at http://www.sritri.org/ Thanks! Tom "trying to work my way up from sprint tris to a 1/2 IM" Henderson

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello from the France Iron Tour – Jim— WOW!  This stuff is GREAT!!  Thanks for taking the time and effort to share it with us.  Pretty cool getting the inside story.   THANK YOU! Tri-Baby "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

I regret to inform Tricia, but there was DRAFTING at the Iron Tour. Perhaps, these athletes( Pigg, Lessing, MacMartin, Riccitello et al . .) are not REAL triathletes!! Steve Fleck

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*Excellent race report snipped* Thanks Jim!  Best of luck. — Vaughn Cooper Center for Microbial Ecology, Michigan State University East Lansing MI 48824 (517) 353-3953/3955 voice/fax

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[snip] why can’t the magazines be this good? QRman

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[snip] why can’t the magazines be this good? QRman

because triathlon reporters would rather pretend to be journalists and offer opinions rather than just report the action. Triathlete magazine is the worst offender, without a doubt. Dalton

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Hello from the France Iron Tour –

Jim— WOW!  This stuff is GREAT!!  Thanks for taking the time and effort to share it with us.  Pretty cool getting the inside story.   THANK YOU! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

Response:

Hello from the France Iron Tour –  My wife told me that some results are coming in on the internet, but they don’t include the American/Canadian/Russian team.  So I thought I would give you sort of a first person account of this wonderful event.  Wes Hobson, Andrew McMartin, Alec Rukosoev, Mike Pigg, and I (Jimmy Riccitello) are racing for "LPG Systems."  LPG (Louis Paul Guriaz – inventor) makes a massage machine that’s kind of like a non-invasive lyposuction.  It has these two rollers that knead the muscle while at the same time some serious suction is occurring.  It seems to work quite well.  And my ass has less cellulite on it, to boot.    LPG provided us with a big Mercedes truck to haul all our junk around, two mini-vans for luxury travel, and a sporty little car to drive fast in.  Mr. L.P. Guriaz is a great guy and is making sure we have everything we need for the races.    Stage one was an individual time trial.  We left at 1:30 intervals.  The race consisted of a 350 meter swim in some cold, rough water, two 6 km loops of the bike with a nice steep climb and a killer descent through the middle of town, and three 700 meter loops on the run, right through the middle of town.  We all looked to do well here because all the other races are drafting legal, and short as well.  1. Simon Lessing  2. Chippy Slater  3. Olivier Marceau  4. Jimmy Riccitello  5. Ben Bright  6. Ben Sanson   Laurent Jeanselme  8. JC Guinchard  9. Peter Adler  10. Markus Keller  12. Wes Hobson  13. Andrew McMartin  16. Mike Pigg  36 Alec Rukosoev  (Team standing – 2nd place)  Stage two was a hard sprint.  Drafting legal.  Two 350 meter loops of the swim, two 10k loops on the bike, and three long 2k loops on the run.  The swim was the most brutal fight I’ve been in in a long time.  No holds barred.  The Euros definitely got the best of us.  I think I was dead last.  Luckily the swim was short – about 8 minutes. Our whole team missed the lead group in the swim and had to chase all day.    Wes has diarrhea and isn’t up to par.  Alec got pounded in the rib, and hasn’t been able to breath right.  In one day we moved from 2nd to 6th in team classification.  But there’s six more races to go.    1. Lessing  2. Bright  3. Slater  4. Guinchard  5. Andrew Johns  6. Laurent Jeanselme  7. Karl Blasco  8. Adler  9. Reto Hug  10. Darren Carnel  14. McMartin  21. Riccitello  34. Pigg  (Wes and Alec. . .??  Not in top 43)  (Team standing 6th place)  GC after two stages  1. Lessing  2. Slater  3. Bright  4. Guinchard  5. Jeanselme  6. Adler  7. Johns  8. Sanson (Ben)  9. Christoph Mauch  10. Blasco  11. Riccitello  12. McMartin  28. Pigg  37.  Hobson  53. Rukosoev  Stage three was another sprint in a beautiful seaside town called Bandol.  Pretty flat race.  Two 350 meter loops in the swim, 8 loops on bike, and 2 loops running.  We got the swim figured out and all made the lead group. . .along with 30 other guys.  With all five of our guys in the group, we went on the offensive.  I was off the front alone on the bike for 5 laps.  Then Pigg was away for a while.  I came of the bike first, and started the run in fourth right with Pigg.  By 200 meters we were in 15th place.  It is amazing how fast these bastards run.  We won’t get into what a bunch of drafting sissies most of the triathlon world had become.  (Maybe I’m bitter.)  LPG was totally psyched about our presence at the front anyway.    We’re still in sixth place in the team category.  Wes still says he doesn’t feel well.  Alec can’t breath because his ribs hurt.  Andrew is running well so we’ve been telling him to sit in on the bike and Pigg and I will take care of him.  He’s coming through and racing well.    1. Lessing  2. Slater  3. Marc Lees  4. Simon Whitfield  5. Blasco  6. Sylvain Dodet  7. McMartin  8. Bright  9. Guinchard  10. Keller  18. Pigg  19. Riccitello  40. Hobson  (Alec ?? – not in top 45)  (still 6th place team)  GC after three stages  1. Lessing  2. Slater  3. Bright  4. Guinchard  5. Jeanselme  6. Johns  7.  Blasco  8. Whitfield  9. Adler  10. McMartin  12. Riccitello  21. Pigg  38. Hobson  44. Rukosoev  Stage four was a sprint.  Two loop swim, six loop bike, and two loop run.  The bike was fast and technical.  Too technical for 55 tri-geeks who don’t know how to ride in a group.  Once again, our team picked the wrong line in the swim.  We all found ourselves in the 2nd group, 30 seconds down out of the water.  Since Andrew is our runner and our hope for a top spot in the individual classification, he stayed in the pack of riders.  Pigg never got the word 14 people were up the road so he stayed away from the front, except for a one lap breakaway mid race.   My main goal is the bike jersey (best cumulative time over the 8 races), so I stayed at the front and pulled hard with Poissy and Swiss team, who all missed the front group as well.  We couldn’t close the gap, but we kept it at 30 seconds.  I hoped Andrew could run his way to a top 10 spot.    Wes got his appetite back and went straight for the junk food. Kit Kats and potato chips.  Needless to say, he was on the pot all night after the race.  His strength is down, but he is trying to hang in there.  Alec is still hurting, but he thinks he’s finding his legs. Pigg feels better every day, but is tiring of French cuisine.  I feel fine, but I’m developing a touch of athletes foot.  (Just kidding.)  1. Whitfield  2. Lessing  3. Slater  4. Johns  5. Carnell  6. Pierre Alain Frossard  7. Matt Reed  8. Dmitri Gaag  9. Jeanselme  10. Bright  12. McMartin  20. Riccitello  26. Pigg  34. Rukosoev  39. Hobson  (still 6th place team)  GC after four stages  1. Lessing  2. Slater  3. Bright  4. Guinchard  5. Jeanselme  6. Whitfield  7. Johns  8. McMartin  9. Lees  10. Blasco  13. Riccitello  21. Pigg  37. Hobson  42. Rukosoev  Today is a rest day and four hour drive through some beautiful country.  Nothing beats a country road at 160 kph (100 mph).  Pigg and I take turns driving.  Tomorrow is a crucial day for us . . the team time trial.  The Swiss and Poissy teams are a minute up and we’re looking to close the gap a little and keep Andrew in the top 7.  Stage five.  Today is another race of truth – team style.  900 meter swim, 30 km bike, and 6 km run.  The race takes place in the beautiful town of Vichy, famous for its water.  The teams left at one minute intervals.  You must finish with at least three on the run, and the three must be together.  The guys had to wait for me on the swim because I swam like a rock.  I felt bad because every second counts, and with a good time we could move up a lot in the overall team and individual competition.  They add your teams time 3 times to get your team classification.  So if you beat a team by 10 seconds, you are 30 seconds ahead in the team standing.  Each members individual time is the time of the team, providing the members finish within 10% of the team’s time.  If you get dropped and don’t finish within 10%, you get a three minute penalty.    Anyway, Alec set the pace in the swim, and like I said, I held them up some.  They wanted to keep me in so I could work on the bike. Once on the bike, we lost Alec who had problems staying close on our wheels.  The four remaining guys worked well together with Pigg and me doing most of the pulling, so Andrew could help us on the run.  Wes, still not at full strength, gave it his all because he knew he would jog the run.    Andrew, Pigg and I set off on the run at a great pace.  After about 1km, Pigg was hurting a little more than me (because his huge pulls on the bike), so I set the pace while Andrew made sure Pigg kept up by giving him a few long pushes (legal in the team event). Fortunately, we were all close enough on the run that we really rocked and rolled.    We finished third, seven seconds down on Salon Leclerc, and 57 seconds down on Assystem.  Not bad for a gropu of guys who had never worked together before.  Not to mention my shitty swim, and the fact that we only had three guys on the run.    1. Assystem  2. Salon Leclerc  3. LPG  4. Speedo Eurosport  5. Poissy  Wes has been taking some medicine and continues to improve. Alec feels better, and said he felt like king kong in the swim.  Pigg continues to get stronger and more psyched as guys get tired and he gets more hungry.  Andrew is running great and is not having any problems sitting in the main group.  His only concern is making the lead group in the swim.  His overall should only get better.  I feel good and continue to eye the bike jersey.  Ironically, my poor swimming is helping the pursuit because I have to close a gap on the guys and then with drafting legal, no one gets away.  Ben Bright has the bike jersey with me 12 seconds back.  He is always in the front group, so I’m looking to catch him tomorrow and take the jersey.  

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Question:

Not to belittle the magnificent swim in any way, but that kinda speed during the Cuba/Florida swim makes you wonder if the protective cage provides any draft.  

Not to belabor this, but there is a strong south to north current from Cuba to Florida.  It’s part of a little thing called the Gulf Stream. I imagine it would damn near impossible to swim it north to south. <begin history lesson The Spanish used the current (and the prevailing winds) to get gold from the Carribean back to Spain. They’d ride them north to reach the prevailing west to east winds that carried to Europe. Pirates also knew this (and the English), and waited along Florida for them. <end history lesson Here in Georgia/Florida, it’s not uncommon to be several minutes under your normal pace when doing an ocean swim leg. They’re all parallel to the beach and there is always a current one way or the other.  What’s really fun is when the RD screws up, reads the current wrong, and has everyone swim against the current…… Ooof. Mike "TriBop" Tennent WebRunner Running Page http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html My Model Railroad Page http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/srr/

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As the originator of the initial question I appreciate the input from all of you that responded.  The original question was not whining about or bemoaning the swim leg at all.  I simply wanted to know who measures or how the distances are measured.  Still don’t know the answer.  Oh, well…no big deal.   You all have a good, safe season and many blessings to you!!

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: As the originator of the initial question I appreciate the input from all : of you that responded.  The original question was not whining about or : bemoaning the swim leg at all.  I simply wanted to know who measures or : how the distances are measured.  Still don’t know the answer.  Oh, : well…no big deal.   : You all have a good, safe season and many blessings to you!! The race director and the aquatics specialist will most likely measure the swim. In smaller triathlons I’m sure the swim is estimated. I used to work for East Bay Regional Parks as a lifeguard. And we measured a swim by sending a guard out on the swim around the bouys we had set up. He came back in 10 minutes or so and the swim was suppose to be a 1000 but it was probably about 900 (close enough for government work). So if the times are too fast then the swim was probably shorter than originally stated. — Patrick I can’t get no, Internetaction

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Just as an interesting tidbit, I swam a 1500 meter swim in 1994 at the Burley Spudman Race in 11:37. Of course the fast downstream current had quite an effect in setting the pace (an average of 47.6 seconds per 100 meters or faster than Popov’s 100 meter WR by .6 seconds). I believe Barb Metz was out in under 13 minutes which would also demolish any standing WR for the women’s events from 100 to 1500 meters. So in regards to swimming courses? Who knows. They’re hard to measure and the best way to do it is get a good swimmer to swim the course the day before and see how fast they go. I venture to guess that even elite distance swimmers won’t break 17:00 in an open water 1500 if the course is truly legitimate due to wind, waves, lack of turns, and lack of forward vision. You must remember that regardless of wetsuits, pool swimming is very climate controlled. DAVE

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|From reading Tri-Baby’s posts it sounds like real swimmers should head for |the Alcatraz tri.  That one is definitely high on my list of races to do. That’s a fun swim, though this year I’ll be doing the EnviroSports one instead of GGP.  Last year I did the GGP Alcatraz and nearly got run over by a boat and saw several folks drop their bikes on the sand-and-gravel covered bike course.  The run was nice, though.  Quite challenging (hills, stairs, and sand) with lots of nice scenery.

There’s something else to consider about the GGP "Escape" (the one on June 1) this year:  They are advertising their start time as 10am.  At 10am, far more boats are going to be out in the regular boating/shipping channels in the Bay.  Scares me, I tell ya!  Also, another organization has Aquatic Park booked for the same day, so the GGP swim will be finishing up at PIER 39!  Hope everyone has fun navigating through all the sea lions and that disgusting water….. Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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 John Rybczyk wrote in article … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, triathlon is supposed to be the rebels’ sport.  We’re not supposed to get all anal retentive about so damn many things that it detracts from the thrill of actually doing the race.  Stop whining about how swimmers are oppressed in triathlon and be happy that we have a sport that mixes it up with three different components. OUCH!    I don’t think the original poster was "whining" about how swimmers are oppressed in triathlons (that’s my job!).  I think he or she just wanted to know why so many triathletes were setting "world records" in the 1500 M swim. Overall,  many fine replies although I can’t buy the "currents" theory because it seems like the currents and wind are always against us!

Alright, I apologize for getting all heated up.  I’ve just had so much fun reading the posts of people who are just getting started and feeling the triathlon bug take hold of them, as well as all the race reports.  They’ve been reminding me just why I read this newsgroup everyday as well as why I like to do triathlons. I’ll agree that some standardization is necessary, but if we go overboard with it our sport will cease to be triathlon. From reading Tri-Baby’s posts it sounds like real swimmers should head for the Alcatraz tri.  That one is definitely high on my list of races to do. Stacy J. Hills

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. Have you taken into account:   the use of wetsuits,   drafting, and   no flip turns? For sure wetsuits and drafting give advantages to the open-water swimmer, but I was under the impression that (good) flip turns give an advantage to the pool swimmer. e.g. times in a 50-metre pool are slower than in a 25-metre pool because there are twice as many flip turns.

Absolutely true. Good fast flips with a good streamline in a pool based triathlon (Example: Tucson Triathlon series) had me beating fairly decent open water swimmers. Chaz

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Not to belittle the magnificent swim in any way, but that kinda speed during the Cuba/Florida swim makes you wonder if the protective cage provides any draft.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. What’s the deal?  Is it just considered normal to be that far off in measurements? I just saw the following 1500m times.  14:44/14:06/13:50/14:17/14:46/14:5 0 and a whole slew of 15’s…all in one event.  Why moan about drafting when this is going on?  Either swim the 1500 meters or don’t call it an Olympic distance event…period! Well, take a look at how fast the recent Cuba-florida swim was done. It is over 100 miles, and it took about 24 hours. This means about 4 miles per hour, which is about 15 minutes per mile.  Pretty damn impressive for someone to maintain a near WR pace for 24 hours. Of course it could be that there were currents and such, giving an added boost.  Those same currents can be found in just about any large body of water, and any race I’ve ever been in has either been equally into/with the current, or has been entirely with the current.  I’ve never found a race where you have to go the entire swim "against the grain." Eric

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. Have you taken into account:   the use of wetsuits,   drafting, and   no flip turns? Each of these has a significant effect on time and, of course, are unavailable for conventional swimming competition where world records are established. -David

Yeah, but come on:  the WR for 1500m is 14:41, and nobody else has even come within 10 seconds. And flip turns increase speed, not decrease it.  Only if you put a wetsuit on Kieran Perkins could that 13 min time be possible. Bottom line: the swim in today’s triathlon is just a prologue, and setting up an accurate swim course must be difficult given currents and such. — Vaughn Cooper Center for Microbial Ecology, Michigan State University East Lansing MI 48824 (517) 353-3953/3955 voice/fax

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. Have you taken into account:   the use of wetsuits,   drafting, and   no flip turns? Each of these has a significant effect on time and, of course, are unavailable for conventional swimming competition where world records are established. -David

For my .02 as a swimmer, drafting is still a factor, albeit not as great, in pool meets, and flip turns actually decrease your time.  My reasoning here is that short course times are faster than long course times.  Even in the 50m freestyle which is strickly a speed event.  I don’t know how much the wetsuit would help a world ranked swimmer.  Depending on the type it may actually slow them down by restricting their range of motion, and reducing their feel for the water.   Eddie

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Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. What’s the deal?  Is it just considered normal to be that far off in measurements? I just saw the following 1500m times.  14:44/14:06/13:50/14:17/14:46/14:50 and a whole slew of 15’s…all in one event.  Why moan about drafting when this is going on?  Either swim the 1500 meters or don’t call it an Olympic distance event…period!

Well, take a look at how fast the recent Cuba-florida swim was done. It is over 100 miles, and it took about 24 hours. This means about 4 miles per hour, which is about 15 minutes per mile.  Pretty damn impressive for someone to maintain a near WR pace for 24 hours. Of course it could be that there were currents and such, giving an added boost.  Those same currents can be found in just about any large body of water, and any race I’ve ever been in has either been equally into/with the current, or has been entirely with the current.  I’ve never found a race where you have to go the entire swim "against the grain." Eric

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Remember, triathlon is supposed to be the rebels’ sport.  We’re not supposed to get all anal retentive about so damn many things that it detracts from the thrill of actually doing the race.  Stop whining about how swimmers are oppressed in triathlon and be happy that we have a sport that mixes it up with three different components.

OUCH!     I don’t think the original poster was "whining" about how swimmers are oppressed in triathlons (that’s my job!).  I think he or she just wanted to know why so many triathletes were setting "world records" in the 1500 M swim. Overall,  many fine replies although I can’t buy the "currents" theory because it seems like the currents and wind are always against us! John R.

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… Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. What’s the deal?  Is it just considered normal to be that far off in measurements? I just saw the following 1500m times.  14:44/14:06/13:50/14:17/14:46/14:50
and a whole slew of 15’s…all in one event.  Why moan about drafting when this is going on?  Either swim the 1500 meters or don’t call it an Olympic distance event…period!

Who cares?  Everyone swam the same course didn’t they?  No one ever compares winning times at different triathlons because they are just that, different triathlons.   Remember, triathlon is supposed to be the rebels’ sport.  We’re not supposed to get all anal retentive about so damn many things that it detracts from the thrill of actually doing the race.  Stop whining about how swimmers are oppressed in triathlon and be happy that we have a sport that mixes it up with three different components. Life is never fair.  Just look at how many mountain stages they put into the Tour de France just to try and get someone else to win other than Miguel Indurain, yet he still won.  Life’s not fair, just be happy to be alive and competing. Stacy J. Hills

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I suspect that this is something that the ITU is working feverishly away on as the IOC is fanatical about distances being accurate. Apprently, there is an entire book on how to measure a marathon course properly. Jumping in your car and zeroing the trip odometer is not enough.

So true.  When the Olympics (dare I use the O word here?) were in town last year, the marathon course was marked (a long blue line) on the course.  It was interesting that the line followed the optimal running path (ie cut corners). As I understand, it was that line that was measured for the "official" distance. FWIW, my bike computer has NEVER matched the published race distance.  It is somewhat frustrating when the actual distance is greater than I expected (thus making it more difficult to achieve goals).  <sigh Of course, my swim times have looked quite good in some races David

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I would say it is a given that triathlons are going to have varying distances, especially the swim, the point is it is a race — all the people in a race do the same distance with same conditions on a given day.  Don’t try to claim its the wetsuits, lack of flip-turns, drafting, etc. that make one swim faster than another, the distance vary! So don’t have a cow if its not exactly 1500 meters.  Hey, I am grateful to race organizers making a triathlon happen smoothly.    

Bravo, Mike!  Well said.  Hear, hear, the man talks sense! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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Historically, the course measurment in triathlons has been woefully inaccurate, so I am not surprised at some people eclipseing "world record" times in the swim legs of triathlon races. It’s funny how this shortchanging of the three segments happens most often in the swim. For example you don’t often see 26 min. 10 k runs in triathlon races. Although I have seen some extraordinarly fast "10 K" splits in some triathlons – 3o min. etc. But then again the swim is first and everyone is "fresh" for this first leg. I suspect that this is something that the ITU is working feverishly away on as the IOC is fanatical about distances being accurate. Apprently, there is an entire book on how to measure a marathon course properly. Jumping in your car and zeroing the trip odometer is not enough. Steve Fleck

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Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. What’s the deal?  Is it just considered normal to be that far off in measurements? I just saw the following 1500m times.  14:44/14:06/13:50/14:17/14:46/14:50 and a whole slew of 15’s…all in one event.  Why moan about drafting when this is going on?  Either swim the 1500 meters or don’t call it an Olympic distance event…period!

My impression is that most course distances are simply estimated, and that race directors consciously choose to err on the side of short. There is enough expense involved that few want to pay a surveyor to come out and direct the exact placement of buoys.  If the course is shorter than it should be, I think that the feeling is "just that much less water to patrol, less distance for the weaker swimmers to get in trouble."  You are right that the times in your example indicate that the stated 1500m distance is totally bogus. — Rick Teichler StorageTek Software Engineering (Louisville, Colorado) For Email replies, use:   teichler <at sweng <dot stortek <dot com

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Perhaps the swim times you are referring to are open water swims, where a favourable current can have a significant effect on the times – and where distances are at best approximate. Surely the records you are referring to only apply to pool swims? Eighty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. What’s the deal?  Is it just considered normal to be that far off in measurements? I just saw the following 1500m times.  14:44/14:06/13:50/14:17/14:46/14:50 and a whole slew of 15’s…all in one event.  Why moan about drafting when this is going on?  Either swim the 1500 meters or don’t call it an Olympic distance event…period!

Response:

Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. What’s the deal?  Is it just considered normal to be that far off in measurements? I just saw the following 1500m times.  14:44/14:06/13:50/14:17/14:46/14:50 and a whole slew of 15’s…all in one event.  Why moan about drafting when this is going on?  Either swim the 1500 meters or don’t call it an Olympic distance event…period!

Response:

Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events.

Have you taken into account:   the use of wetsuits,   drafting, and   no flip turns? Each of these has a significant effect on time and, of course, are unavailable for conventional swimming competition where world records are established. -David

Response:

Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. Have you taken into account:   the use of wetsuits,   drafting, and   no flip turns?

For sure wetsuits and drafting give advantages to the open-water swimmer, but I was under the impression that (good) flip turns give an advantage to the pool swimmer. e.g. times in a 50-metre pool are slower than in a 25-metre pool because there are twice as many flip turns.

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What about currents? In the race you mentioned, the current might have been strongly in favor of the swimmers. And anyone who thinks the swim is just a prologue for the event has never seen me swim! I’d have to be Endurain to recover from my slow swim times on the bike, and then I’d just lose it all again on the run! But, world records ain’t measured on the legs of triathlons, and swim distances are most difficult to measure. With a bike leg, a car odo is reasonably accurate. A run leg can be closely measured with a measuring wheel. But a swim leg in open water cannot be measured easily. Aerial photos require ground information. Survey methods require ground information. GPS has potentially a 100-meter error (which would be 200 meters if used to measure the turnaround of an out-and-back course). So, let’s just say that the swim is from here to there, and see who gets there quickest! All ranking schemes I’ve ever seen look at placings, not absolute times, so the system is forgiving of inaccurate course measurement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone give some information on who/how the distances for the Olympic distance swims are measured for the various events?  The credibility of our sport is in question when people are turning sub world record times in the swims of some of these events. …snip… Yeah, but come on:  the WR for 1500m is 14:41, and nobody else has even come within 10 seconds. And flip turns increase speed, not decrease it.  Only if you put a wetsuit on Kieran Perkins could that 13 min time be possible. Bottom line: the swim in today’s triathlon is just a prologue, and setting up an accurate swim course must be difficult given currents and such. —

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Question:

Have you grown BORED of working out in forever warm and sunny weather? Do you crave a little variety; a variation from the ho-hum perfect training conditions to which you’ve become accustomed?!?  WELLLLLL, have I got an offer for you! Are you aware that as of December 15th Philadelphia has already broken its record for Dec. precipitation? It has rained at least 9 out of the past eleven days.  The 200 year old Yearly precip record also just recently fell as well.  Philly had record snow fall earlier in the year and we can only hope that the new year will provide us with another shot at the record!  A couple years ago we had a record number of ice storms, virtually closing down all major businesses (=paid time off, yea!) Starting to sound enticing?  It really is GREAT for when those old perfect training weather blues start kicking in! Anyway, I may have an opportunity for one lucky warm weather triathlete to experience the unpredictable delights of winter training in Philadelphia!  Affectionately refered to by locals as "The Pothole Capitol of the World" , Philadelphia offers a superb winter training experience that may make you wonder why you ever decided to live in a warm climate in the first place.   – Will there be floods making roads and trails impossibly impassable? – Will record snow fall allow you to spend quality time indoors with       your rollers or stationary bike? – Will ice storms enable you hearty runners to take a well deserved     break from the hard pounding of the roads and make you                 appreciate the pleasures of running in place on the treadmill? Yup, no doubt about it, Philly is truly a winter WONDER-land when it comes to training. And just think of the benefits that weaker swimmers will reap – endless opportunities to spend more time at the local indoor pool perfecting their strokes without being tempted by the distractions that warm sunny weather provides!!! But wait…that’s not all!  As a bonus you will also receive the privilege of realizing the cross-training benefits of shoveling snow, chipping ice and pushing cars out of snow ruts. I know, I know, you’re thinking this all sounds way too good to be true.  It’s not – we here in the Mid-Atlantic region have been keeping this utopian winter training climate a virtual secret! I guess it may be the holiday spirit kicking in, but I felt it would just be great if one of our fair-weathered friends could be given the opportunity to experience this first hand.   So here’s the deal – I am willing to swap homes for the winter months (perhaps Jan-April) with someone who lives in a warm, mostly dry, sunny, rolling hills type of place in the US which also has some cool people with whom to train.  Interested? Please send me all the vitals (name, address, average daily hi & low temps for each month, terrain, training group opportunities, etc.)  The winner will be announced by year’s end (not a lot of time to prepare so respond TODAY!)  If the response is as overwhelming as I anticipate, I may be able to make arrangements for some other locals to swap with our warm-weather friends for the winter!!  ACT NOW! -hug (Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!)

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Have you grown BORED of working out in forever warm and sunny weather? Do you crave a little variety; a variation from the ho-hum perfect training conditions to which you’ve become accustomed?!?  WELLLLLL, have I got an offer for you! <snip Anyway, I may have an opportunity for one lucky warm weather triathlete to experience the unpredictable delights of winter training in Philadelphia!  

Laurie, although I love you dearly — FAT CHANCE. I’m not giving up my subtropical zone for anything. Yup, no doubt about it, Philly is truly a winter WONDER-land when it comes to training. And just think of the benefits that weaker swimmers will reap – endless opportunities to spend more time at the local indoor pool perfecting their strokes without being tempted by the distractions that warm sunny weather provides!!!

You’re right. I have grown used to all that outdoor swimming. In fact I have grown bored. I haven’t been in the water in 6 weeks — but today, it’s sunny and cool, and it is definitely time to hit the heated outdoor pool and swim in the sunshine. Thanks for the reminder. But wait…that’s not all!  As a bonus you will also receive the privilege of realizing the cross-training benefits of shoveling snow, chipping ice and pushing cars out of snow ruts.

It looks fun on TV. What’s it like? I’ve tried raking leaves for cross training, but shoveling snow? Intriguing. So here’s the deal – I am willing to swap homes for the winter months (perhaps Jan-April) with someone who lives in a warm, mostly dry, sunny, rolling hills type of place in the US which also has some cool people with whom to train.  Interested?

Ha Ha. (see above) Please send me all the vitals (name, address, average daily hi & low temps for each month, terrain, training group opportunities, etc.)  

Houston is flat, and during the summer, brutally hot and humid. Most of the winter months, we can wear t-shirts and shorts when training, because it is cool, dry and, often, beautifully sunny. Occ. , like now, it gets into the freezing range, but usually doesn’t last long.  Winter training in Houston is *great* and is my favorite time of the year. Heated outdoor 50 meter pool, good cycling courses (road and trail), and parks to run in.  The Gulf of Mexico is about 1 hour away. Come on down for a visit Laurie.         Mark A. Jenkins, M.D.         http://riceinfo.rice.edu/~jenkins

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!) the BEST place? maybe San Diego, North County (aka Silicon South, if your short term assignment is Software related). We’re having a cold snap right now.  It’s clear and sunny, but a bit brisk.  It may not reach 70 today. QRman

Whatta shame!  We (in Philly) haven’t seen the sun in two weeks.  We just set all-time annual and monthly records for rainfall. — "The wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." — J. Buffett

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(Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!)

the BEST place? maybe San Diego, North County (aka Silicon South, if your short term assignment is Software related). We’re having a cold snap right now.  It’s clear and sunny, but a bit brisk.  It may not reach 70 today. QRman

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!) the BEST place? maybe San Diego, North County (aka Silicon South, if your short term assignment is Software related). We’re having a cold snap right now.  It’s clear and sunny, but a bit brisk.  It may not reach 70 today. QRman

Cold snap?  Ah, jeez. I thought -20 windchill was a cold snap. You remind of my Mom, who calls up to complain when Phoenix gets below 50 degrees Sheesh, I’d give a lot be down in San Diego running through the hills of La Jolla. Instead, my treadmill indoors…sigh. chaz

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!) the BEST place? maybe San Diego, North County (aka Silicon South, if your short term assignment is Software related). We’re having a cold snap right now.  It’s clear and sunny, but a bit brisk.  It may not reach 70 today.

Or…. The South Bay (just north of San Jose, Ca) our clime isn’t as warm (or dry) as where Dan sits, but we have plenty of really good rides with lots a good climbs.  And, hey, the people are really cool John (as long as you’re not paying the rent $$$$…) K.

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<Snip Anyway, I may have an opportunity for one lucky warm weather triathlete to experience the unpredictable delights of winter training in Philadelphia!  Affectionately refered to by locals as "The Pothole Capitol of the World" , Philadelphia offers a superb winter training experience that may make you wonder why you ever decided to live in a warm climate in the first place.

She’s absolutely right.  I used to do summers in Colorado, winters in Arizona, made a few pilgrimages to California, Floridia and Brazil for training.  None compare to Philadelphia.   She also forgot to mention the "Crystal Clear Crud of the Schykull River" – which increases your bodies ability to store water, the new EPA warnings regarding the quality of the air – making your lungs stronger and the uninsured motorist chasing you down every back alley. (We do have beer and cable)   –Eric     Tri-????

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!) the BEST place? maybe San Diego, North County (aka Silicon South, if your short term assignment is Software related). We’re having a cold snap right now.  It’s clear and sunny, but a bit brisk.  It may not reach 70 today. QRman Cold snap?  Ah, jeez. I thought -20 windchill was a cold snap. You remind of my Mom, who calls up to complain when Phoenix gets below 50 degrees Sheesh, I’d give a lot be down in San Diego running through the hills of La Jolla. Instead, my treadmill indoors…sigh. chaz

I agree, but I think I would get burned out if I could train outdoors year round.  I would miss that first warm weekend, usually in March or April, when it gets up near 70.  Valley Forge park gets crammed with weekend warriors and the Schulkyll trail is flooded with bikers, runners, and those damned rollerbladers.  I’m so psyched to train that time of year, it makes the time spent indoors all seem worth it. Besides, until you’ve seen Valley Forge park blanketed by snow, or Main St. in Manayunk around Christmas time, you haven’t lived. — "The wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." — J. Buffett

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Great post Elizabeth, as a native of Reading, PA I can certainly sympathize. I would definitely recommend San Diego as a winter training spot for you. It’s beautiful out here.  Only drawback is the water’s a little cold this time of year (high 50’s – low 60’s).  Come on out, lots of cool people to train with!  I don’t think I’ll switch with you though…  After undergrad in Boston I’m happy to be out here. Nancy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Seriously, I am kicking around the idea of taking a short term contract assignment in a warmer climate and would appreciate any advice on the BEST place – other than Philly, of course – to train in the winter. Thanks!) the BEST place? maybe San Diego, North County (aka Silicon South, if your short term assignment is Software related).

QRman, know of any place in need of SAS programmers? Sheesh, I’d give a lot be down in San Diego running through the

hills of La Jolla. Hmmm, Chuck… one of my best friends from high school lives there, maybe I can somehow weasle out a 3 month invitation from him… Besides, until you’ve seen Valley Forge park blanketed by snow, or Main St. in Manayunk around Christmas time, you haven’t lived.

Louis, I’m afraid I’ve been spending a tad too much time down in Manayunk this winter (hence my inclusion in the top ranks of the "most winter weight gain" contest!) (For non-Phillyites, Manayunk is a part of the city included on the loop of the CoreStates Pro Cycling Championships that has all sorts of bars, boutiques, bars, restaurants, bars, art galleries, etc.) -hug

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Any place sounds better than Philly!  A place where the mayor once ordered the police to drop a bomb on  a buiding! Just to flame the fire a bit:  I live in a burb of Atlanta and the temp on Jan 2 is supposed to be 70 degrees! Today (12/30) was in the upper 60s. However, January and February are notoriously dreary . Good luck Sam Callan Question plaguing me as I was looking at a map of Hawaii: Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?

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Question:

Hello fellow-runners! Since a few years I take part in races open for everyone. My own level is intermediate; neither at the top nor at the bottom. In most of the races I run directly behind another participant for 1-2k to break the wind or to keep a proper pace. Now I am in doubt if my attitude is all right. Is there a common sense about this subject? What do you think about it? —

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Since a few years I take part in races open for everyone. My own level is intermediate; neither at the top nor at the bottom. In most of the races I run directly behind another participant for 1-2k to break the wind or to keep a proper pace. Now I am in doubt if my attitude is all right. Is there a common sense about this subject? What do you think about it? —

As a point of etiquette, I guess there’s no problem so long as the runner who is providing the slipstream doesn’t mind… For myself, another mid-pack runner, I am running for myself and against the clock. So I would want to know what I am can achieve, *without* the the benefit of a tow for a few k’s. If you were up at the sharp end of things, you simply need to look at what the rule book says. If it’s not excluded, it ain’t cheating.   Miles

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Since a few years I take part in races open for everyone. My own level is intermediate; neither at the top nor at the bottom. In most of the races I run directly behind another participant for 1-2k to break the wind or to keep a proper pace. Now I am in doubt if my attitude is all right. Is there a common sense about this subject? What do you think about it? —

I do this all the time. I just try to make sure I do my share of pacesetting and leading. I remember one race in particular, years ago at the 16.2 miler in Wisconsin (I can’t spell it: Sytennde Mai?), where I was feeling particularly good, and I chose to (or they let me) lead a pack through the entire back portion of the race into a fairly strong headwind. I didn’t feel like I was being treated unfairly, and in fact, I finished feeling really good. Ken

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Hello fellow-runners! Since a few years I take part in races open for everyone. My own level is intermediate; neither at the top nor at the bottom. In most of the races I run directly behind another participant for 1-2k to break the wind or to keep a proper pace. Now I am in doubt if my attitude is all right. Is there a common sense about this subject? What do you think about it? —

I think that there’s no problem with it as long as you do your share of the work, that is to take the lead and work for your fellow runner a little while and them let him work for you etc etc…  And when one of the two ( or group ) is ready to go , then it steps on the gas and go… You should share the benefits of drafting with the one you’re slowing down… If not, you are a bit like a parasite… — Physical Activity Science Laboratory       (418) 656-2131 #2929 (Laval University)  G1K 7P4 CANADA

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"Drafting" is not against the rules as long as you follow a competitor and you are not in a Triathlon (where drafting IS against the rules, especially on the bike, and they can assess you a time penalty). The recent issue in the NYC marathon was that a woman was essentially drafting a male racer, which is legal; It would only be against the rules if somebody not officially competing in the race was timing a competitor. Bob Kampainen gets drafted by someone smaller from time to time.  Legal for prize money, legal for world records.  But if its YOUR PR, well, YOU are the one that you have to satisfy about this.

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Drafting in Tri’s is no longer illegal

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 Cut…

  Will this be old news by the time it is  telecast on Nov. 18th?  Of course WE will all watch, but would you watch  the World Series (GO TRIBE!!) 6 weeks after the fact?

cut… I think you hit it right on target, Augie. I would watch the 1975 World Series anytime, and I do watch my tape of the 1989 Ironman, but, what about first-time TV coverage? Coverage has improved.  We at least see it on November 18th this year.  We used to have to wait until after the Super Bowl (and Pro-Bowl).  Most of the couch crowd thought Ironman Hawaii was held in February still. I think that we will require in the future a less produced and polished show within weeks of the race.  I hope the networks can do this.  Coverage might even be better because they won’t have time to insert the artsy-fartsy shots of the volcano and pineapple plantations.  They’ll just have to take the racing for what it is and run with it. Hey, NBC… do you read this stuff? |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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| | The "grass-roots" races I have in mind are really more group workouts. No | prizes, no t-shirts.  G-d, I have enough of those to last well into the | next millenium.  I’m talking about getting 10-40 people together for some | combination/sport thing that is either self-supported (no aid stations) or | support by friends and family.  The quality of the event is measured by | how good the party is afterwards.  :) | | These are my favorite races.  You won’t read about them in even the | regional magazines (Go Rocky!) and I certainly don’t want a TV camera | sticking into our fun.   | | Some examples are road biking 45miles, mtn run 7, climb 6 pitches, and | reverse.   Anotheer is the "Bench Press Biathlon"  for every 30 lbs over | your body weight that you can lift in a maximal bench press test, you get | a minute off your run time.  The run is an wicked steep one-mile climb. | 20 minutes of AT bliss:)  Does anyone else "organize" these unorganized | events? | | Jim Franklin This type of race is a great idea, how come the bench press is tied to your body weight though … the high body weight person is already penalized in all the other events … the one event he has an advantage you want it nullified. I’m just joshing of course, but why is it that weight classes are accepted in a wide variety of sports but are laughed at in others. Camus

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*Very* interesting. I was impressed to learn that in Santa Barbara, CA, the same outfit that puts on the annual triathlon also sponsors a weekly group workout/race which works something like this: Every Wednesday, just after work (6?) the group gathers at a local beach for a short distance timed tri or du course, with a shared run course and finish line. Some days they’ll limit it to just a swim/run and lengthen the distances slightly. Usually takes 1 – 1.5 hrs for most folks, and when the last person comes in there’s a BBQ or other spread waiting for all. Cost??   5 measly bucks. (I have no idea how they can do this.)    Think about the benefits of something like this for a minute. It’s a tri-club without membership fees or other responsibilities required. A great way to meet other *local* athletes. A great way to keep motivated and get that mid-week workout in. And perhaps the most intriguing angle, (if you’ll excuse my fuzziness) an opportunity to build a circle of athletic friends and compatriots with an emphasis on triathlon!    Next time I’m there during the week I’ll try to drop in on one of these events and report on the experience. Maybe try to talk to the organizers, too.    Any race directors have any observations on how difficult it might be to initiate something like this?    Anyone out there know of similar programs elsewhere? Regards, Kurian Davis

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 Re triathlon in the Olympics; your point Ruth, is well taken. It has always been a mystery to me that there seems to be a feeling that a sport becomes legitimate if the Olympic organisation agrees to accept that sport.The other stamp of legitimacy seems to be the amount of money generated by that sport. Neither of these ‘values’ have anything to do with the majority of participants. Do we race in the hope of getting some intangible value from being part of an Olympic sport? I for one doubt it. When you try to mould something like triathlon into a spectacle that supposedly will appeal more to Joe TV watcher, you surely lose the basis of what we average participants find compelling about the sport. I won’t even get into the drafting issue!! Cheers Barry . — Barry Glading

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This thread had more loose threads than a thrift store. Let’s go back to the main one. All I want to remember is the look of joy on Darryl’s face when he made each of the transitions and the same when he crossed the line. But I saw that same look of joy when Darryl made a 60 mile bike ride or figured out how to go faster in the pool or when he was sipping coffee at Lava Java. Or when he was telling about his great joy when he was finally able to do 25 meters with a kickboard and not sink. Perhaps I am reading more into this than I might, but I think the main and perhaps the deciding and just maybe the only reason that Paula Newby-Fraser went back to the finish line after her collapse and taking three IVs and doing her press conference duty was to see that same look on Darryl’s face as he crossed the line. I don’t think I am going too far to say that PNF had immense respect for Darryl’s dedication, commitment, training and his willingness to try something he was, on the face of it, so physically unsuited for. And more than that, respect for what’s at the core of triathlon — the pure joy her brought top it. And that is something PNF and Paul Huddle and Mike Pigg and a lot of people who have met Darryl definitely wanted to see in person and not wait for the NBC broadcast. Timothy Carlson

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:  he thanked everyone–including his product sponsors–for helping : :him get to kona. perhaps, that too is another lesson that some of the : :young pro triathletes need to heed, before companies write off triathlon : :completely. : … Katovsky why not give us some documented evidence of this danger of : companies writing off triathlon completely? Who is leaving the sport? And : who is leaving because some young pros didn’t thank them? : Does the commerical viability of traithlon really rest on the  attitudes : of the young pros? : Or, are you just waxing grandiose and poetic once again…? Jeffrey, I’m a little surprised that you’d leap to conclusions the way you did just now.  Bill said "before" companies write off triathlon.  That’s different than asserting that companies are *now* writing off triathlon. You’ve been hanging around the talk.* heirarchy; I can tell! — Disclaimer: This reflects _my_ personal view only, not that of my employer.          Overused phrase of the decade: "This is the Nineties."

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One important change in this whole dynamic is the impact that emerging technologies are having (and will increasingly have) on the delivery of information.  I offer as evidence the coverage on this medium of the Ironman.  In very nearly real time, the information was disseminated, in probably a more meaningful way than mainstream news reporting does, to the world.  With color images!  Will this be old news by the time it is telecast on Nov. 18th?  Of course WE will all watch, but would you watch the World Series (GO TRIBE!!) 6 weeks after the fact? Most major sponsors are wrestling with this issue right now.  In this age where you can get 175 information-specific channels delivered to your living room, including some 30 sports channels (Digital Satellite System), it is increasingly important to find the correct strategy and venue for your product and intended market.  I would anticipate frequent churn in sports sponsorships for some time to come. Augie Calabrese (All opinions expressed represent a personal view, and are not necessarily those of my employer.)

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The "grass-roots" races I have in mind are really more group workouts. No prizes, no t-shirts.  G-d, I have enough of those to last well into the next millenium.  I’m talking about getting 10-40 people together for some combination/sport thing that is either self-supported (no aid stations) or support by friends and family.  The quality of the event is measured by how good the party is afterwards.  :) These are my favorite races.  You won’t read about them in even the regional magazines (Go Rocky!) and I certainly don’t want a TV camera sticking into our fun.   Some examples are road biking 45miles, mtn run 7, climb 6 pitches, and reverse.   Anotheer is the "Bench Press Biathlon"  for every 30 lbs over your body weight that you can lift in a maximal bench press test, you get a minute off your run time.  The run is an wicked steep one-mile climb. 20 minutes of AT bliss:)  Does anyone else "organize" these unorganized events? Jim Franklin

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I agree that the importance of getting triathlon into the Olympics is way, way, WAY overrated.  You’re right, Ruth, what the hell difference does it make to most of us Joe-Average age groupers?  

Well, let’s see.  I am Joe Businessman.  I have a limited goodwill budget to allocate to athletic sponsorship.  I want the most bang for my buck.  Where I am going to put my $$$?  I can choose among the local triathlon event with 250 participants and 300 spectators, basket weaving event with 20 competitors and 3 spectators (referees to keep it clean), or the local 10 k run with 800 competitors and 1000 spectators.   Whatever gets a business’s name in front of the most people (aka consumers) will usually win, in my opinion.   Now, (sound the trumpets) an **OLYMPIC EVENT** really catches the eye.   Everyone knows what the Olympics are. Everyone knows the NBA, NHL, the NL, the AL, NFL… and so on.  This is where the money goes.  How many people know the ITU or the WTC other than us?   However, I *do* think it’s important to make friends for our sport whenever and wherever we can.   <SNIP

Agreed.   Some additional points: I think those that wish to "mainstream" the sport are vital to triathlon. In thinking of pro football, what does this sport provide to Joe Commonman in terms of payback?  That is, what does pro football give to this person as he turns on the TV set and watches a game?  Perhaps a role model for his son (once in a while anyway), perhaps family fellowship, a sense of excitement.  Who knows? In the same sense, what can triathlon give to the same average person? Obviously physical fitness and fun.  Athletic acheivement.  Self enlightenment.  Family goals of fitness.   But fitness sports take time and are harder and more discouraging for the less fit or overweight person.  Thus he or she may be inclined to give it up for something easier because the paybacks often take a while to achieve.  And the aches and pains leave him wondering.   So, we introduce a person of average talent and with a well known name, and we have a great spokesperson for the sport.  An average man or woman like xxx or yyy can do it – hey maybe I can too!  I don’t have to have 0.00001% bodyfat or have a resting heart rate of 3 to finish a triathlon. Well done, Daryl.  If it takes an Ironman spot to get people like him into the sport – so be it.  My friend met him at St. Croix this year and said he is a great guy.   My high school principal was about 350 pounds when I graduated.  About 5 years later, I lined up at the starting line of a local triathlon and there he stood, all 200 pounds of him.  My high school principal became a triathlete and lost 150 pounds in the process!  Somewhere he got the bug.  I wonder how… (If you read this, Mickey O’connor, I am referring to Bill Cashill!) -Rolf — Rolf "Ironman" Arands, Ph.D.     |                                  |

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This is getting away from Daryll per se, but I noticed in this thread a need to mainstream our sport.  I do not think that we need to have a liasion to the rest of the world.  We do not need "couch potatoes" to understand us.  We do not need sponsors.  If triathlaon were to return to amateur-only, grassroots events that would be fine with me.

Spoken like a true non-race director. :} Sorry, but we do need sponsors. Even your "grass-roots" races cost anywhere between $1,000-$1,200 to put on. T-shirts, trophies, etccost bucks.  A small race can’t depend on entry fees to pay everything. If we get too far from the mainstream, the local sponsors won’t support us. It always helps to have SOME recognition. If you’re point is that we could damn well get along without most of the pissy little pronouncements and mandates promulgated by our so-called national and international bodies – I agree wholeheartedly. We certainly do not need the Olympics.  

Especially if we sell our soul to get there. Mike Tennent WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Race Calendar 200+ listings. Advertise your race. FTP Race Apps, FAQ http://www.webrunner.com/webrun/running/running.html

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That’s okay for me to watch, but it doesn’t achieve what Tricia or I would like, the encouragement of triathlete wannabees. Ruth Kazez

I’m not sure I want more people in Triathlon. For years I was a ski Instructor and took it as my personal quest to get more people into downhill skiing. I appear to have succeeded too well. Now whenever I go skiing, I inevitably see some old friend or ex-student AHEAD of me in the lift line (which get longer every year) I now manage to spend more money for the privelege of spending less time actually skiing. When I first started skiing it was still seen as somewhat of a fringe sport, for the wealthy and somewhat ecccentric. Now every yuppies kid goes skiing and anyone can do it. I liked it when the "In group" was smaller and lift lines were never an issue. The same goes for Triathlon. It’s hard enough to get a decent spot in the bike racks unless you show up to a race before dawn!I like the fact that all my non-tri friends ( hey, just because they don’t do tris doesn’t mean they’re not nice people) think I’m some sort of hero just because I can do a tri is fine with me. If we encourage all these couch potatoes to get off the couch, I have NO doubt they’d all finish ahead of me and kill any hopes I have of ever finishing in the top half of a race either overall or in my age group. I say to hell with the TV coverage, and I sure don’t all these new triathletes ahead of me. Stay on the couch, and admire me when I tell you I’m  TRIDORK. Just my early morning ranting and raving. TriDork

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stuff deleted speeds down luge tracks, while being graded on both degree-of-difficulty and speed, hurtle through the air at the end of the run and do a slam dunk (again more style points), release from their bikes and do a variety of twists and turns in the air as they prepare to execute a "perfect" entry into the water.  All this is done in perfect coreography to rap music!   W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_

Oh great! now if Less McDonald is watching he’s got more ideas he can "experiment" with for the "all coveted" TV ausience, Shhhhhhhhh. Don’t give him any more ideas, or in 10 years none of us will recognize our sport. TriDork

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Exposure is what a sport needs to thrive. We would we be with out the TV coverage of the Ironman

   The question to ask might be: Would we be without the Ironman itself? Interesting contrast between "Just Do It" & "Just Watch It". As Tricia admits, I also am guiltily addicted to TV tri coverage, even resorting to ITU races when I need a fix. (Where’s Matt Mahoney when I need his sig line?)    So, if less exposure means less TV, does that mean fewer sponsors? What about the type of sponsor to be attracted? Maybe you get a lot more Saucony’s & Gatorades and fewer beer companies & car companies. Is this all bad? Probably means less big purses, more niche market companies as sponsors, etc. I’ve no idea how the WTC does financially, but can’t be too bad can it? I know the IM isn’t cheap to put on, but where do you suppose all those big sponsor bucks go? What does it cost to enter as an age-group athlete? Don’t you think this race would survive without the big purse, big media, & big sponsor dollars? I do. It did for years. People came. The event was great in it’s own right. And so exposure increased, because people (& Sports Illustrated) wanted to see it.    The question of participation seems to me the only vexing issue in all this. I’ve no idea if we’d suffer fewer entrants as coverage shrank.    Maybe an informal poll: What got you interested enough to try your first race? And how did you first hear or find out about tri’s at all?    I wonder how much of a role TV plays in all this.    Food for thought, Kurian Davis

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I would like to put 100 exclamation points after Franklin’s post!!!!!!!  Especially the Olympics.  Is there a sport that improved in any way after being included in the Olympics?  Or even became rich? Synchronized swimming, rhythm gymnastics, dream team basketball,luge, which one will lead the way for triathlon?

It will be a combination… Athletes will ride their bikes at perilous speeds down luge tracks, while being graded on both degree-of-difficulty and speed, hurtle through the air at the end of the run and do a slam dunk (again more style points), release from their bikes and do a variety of twists and turns in the air as they prepare to execute a "perfect" entry into the water.  All this is done in perfect coreography to rap music!    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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However, I *do* think it’s important to make friends for our sport whenever and wherever we can.  More interest can lead to more TV coverage…

Of course you have to ask yourself, is the event the current-none-but-soon-to-be triathlete sees on televsion, the same format of event he/she’ll be competing in? Sorry I couldn’t resist. Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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 he thanked everyone–including his product sponsors–for helping :him get to kona. perhaps, that too is another lesson that some of the :young pro triathletes need to heed, before companies write off triathlon :completely. : :bill katovsky :multisport editor/publisher

… Katovsky why not give us some documented evidence of this danger of companies writing off triathlon completely? Who is leaving the sport? And who is leaving because some young pros didn’t thank them? Does the commerical viability of traithlon really rest on the  attitudes of the young pros? Or, are you just waxing grandiose and poetic once again…? Your comrade in arms, — JJ

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I liked it when Daryll confessed during the Mrs. T’s coverage that a triathlon was tougher than any football player he ever  came up against.  The NFL and their horde’s of (prepare for gross generalization) couch potato groupies should put that in their pipes and smoke it (their cans and drink it?? their potato chip bags and eat it?? well you know…) I think its great to have someone from a mainstream american sport trying our sport and hence possibly acting as a liason between the tri society and everyone else. TN Kenyon

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I liked it when Daryll confessed during the Mrs. T’s coverage that a triathlon was tougher than any football player he ever  came up against.  The NFL and their horde’s of (prepare for gross generalization) couch potato groupies should put that in their pipes and smoke it (their cans and drink it?? their potato chip bags and eat it?? well you know…) I think its great to have someone from a mainstream american sport trying our sport and hence possibly acting as a liason between the tri society and everyone else. TN Kenyon

Yeah, what Todd said!  Exactly.  And, as someone else pointed out already, I don’t think anybody was dissin’ Daryl personally; folks were just pissed that he *appeared* to get special consideration from IMH officials because of his "celebrity" status.  Oh, and I think a couple people were cranky that veteran triathletes didn’t garner the media attention that Haley has, but come on, it’s definitely *different* for an ex-pro football player to be doing the Ironman. Personally, I think it’s *great*!  As Todd says, maybe it’ll catch more couch-potato attention to see a "real" athlete out there doing that weird triathlon stuff.  As I’ve said before, we gotta think of the big picture! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  /

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This is an interesting thread.  There is no problem generating interest in boxing at the lower weight classes.  People watch Sugar Ray and Marvelous Marvin Hagler and they don’t say Mike Tyson can pummel either one of those palookas.  So why is it that there is no real crowd interest in Clydesdale class triathlon racing??? I think the answer is that triathlon is inherently meant to be an endurance event.  You guys would hate to see a REAL sprint triathlon where you had a 25 yd. pool swim (no flip turns), a 40 yard dash, and a sprint bike race on a track, each event timed individually without those hokey transitions which are a matter of manual dexterity rather than athleticism.   Such a triathlon would allow the Mark Gastineau’s, Angel Martino’s, et. al. to be competitive and would probably exclude the relatively "slow" and comparatively waifish titans of the "IRONMAN" sporting world who would have trouble keeping up with the blistering pace. Camus

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people seem to resent his presence in the ironman. i almost said race. this is a sport with very few black people in it;<<

Oh please, Katovsky, make your point but  play that "card"  that somewhere else. — JJ

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[defense of Daryll Haley being a nice person deleted] : :the everyman can relate to daryll; that is good for the sport.all week Why should the everyman relate more to someone belonging to a racial minority, who is bigger and richer than the average person, because he spent so much time pumping iron, than to someone who basically just combines the most natural modes of propulsion the human race will ever know? You may still be right, but I’d like to know why this should be the case. :long, he thanked everyone–including his product sponsors–for helping :him get to kona. perhaps, that too is another lesson that some of the :young pro triathletes need to heed, before companies write off triathlon :completely. : :bill katovsky :multisport editor/publisher : : —                             Ulrich Porsch             Wer spricht vom Siegen, "Ubersteh’n ist alles  

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Why is rst beating up the big man? I know daryll. in fact, i met him last year at the king kam pool. he was a spectator at last year’s race. it was his dream to one day do the ironman. we talked for two hours that day. later in the week, i introduced him to rob perry, who is press honcho at the ironman. i said to rob, "This is daryll, a former pro football player, a natural for tv, gatorade,sponsorship, etc. can you get him in the race? it will be inspirational for others." over the next few months, daryll and i kept in touch, and i kpet asking him about the ironman; i later hooked him up with the multisport school of champions, and the rest is history as he rapidly became a household name in tri-circles. In fact, at my helm another tri-mag, i had sketched out a mag cover of daryll holding paula in her arms; paula’s comment:"i can’t wait to show it to me friends in south africa." people seem to resent his presence in the ironman. i almost said race. this is a sport with very few black people in it; of course, daryll stood out like the 280-pound affable giant that he is. i know that if the officials had told him that he missed one of the cutoffs, he would have gracefully bowed out. he was grateful that he even got a chance to compete, period. i met him at the mile 10  station in the run. i talked to him a bit as he walked. he said, ‘I’ve never been so nervous in  my life as in that swim. I didn’t know if i’d make it. I had a pit in my stomach." I have been at the ironman seven times, twice as a competitor, but one of the most memorable scenes i ever witnessed was watching daryll chug through the water to the finish line, with his wife saying, "where’s my baby, where’s my baby?" when he got to shore, he greeted the crowd, threw his goggles to the spectators, hugged his wife for what seemed like two minutes, and stood there, beaming and proud that he made the swim. the everyman can relate to daryll; that is good for the sport.all week long, he thanked everyone–including his product sponsors–for helping him get to kona. perhaps, that too is another lesson that some of the young pro triathletes need to heed, before companies write off triathlon completely. bill katovsky multisport editor/publisher

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Question:

:  Was it just me or did anyone else out their REALLY REALLY enjoy the TYR : ad on the back cover of the latest TRIATHLETE mag.  In case anyone didn’t : catch it, it features Wendy Ingrahm in a 2 peice TYR swimsuit and Tux : jacket.  In short she looked marvaaalous, simply marvaaalous. : Thanks TYR,  I needed that! : Mike With you on this one, Mike.  I was reading my issue at work, and one of the women in the office accused me of bringing "girlie mags" to the office. Mustering my best "deeply offended" look, I ran down Wendy’s credentials as an athlete, then asked her if she often felt threatened by successful women who also happen to be attractive  She then asked me if I felt threatened by women that would not thing twice about formatting my hard disk the next time I left my desk. Hey, you gotta respect that. Seriously, though, it was extremely nice to see a healthy woman with some drive in a cover advertisement, instead of these "waif" girls whose only goal in life seems to be the exhibition of their rib cage.  I hope the trend catches on. Brad W. — "If the government trusts me, shouldn’t you?" – Maverick Brad W. Chesapeake, VA

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Was it just me or did anyone else out their REALLY REALLY enjoy the TYR ad on the back cover of the latest TRIATHLETE mag.

Here, here! I have this tendency to browse magazines from back to front & now I know WHY!!! But hey, the DeSoto ads aren’t exactly bad, either. Mike, I hope we haven’t just opened ourselves wide-open to major flaming, but I’m with you, I can’t wait for the first race! SNOW, SNOW, GO AWAY, I want to start in the 30-34 Wave!!!

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 Was it just me or did anyone else out their REALLY REALLY enjoy the TYR ad on the back cover of the latest TRIATHLETE mag.  In case anyone didn’t catch it, it features Wendy Ingrahm in a 2 peice TYR swimsuit and Tux jacket.  In short she looked marvaaalous, simply marvaaalous.  I thought with all the recent talk about DeSoto ads using models in their gear it was interesting to see one of our own looking equally as well. IMHO the ad was very tastefully done also.  Maybe it’s just the middle of January and were covered in snow here in the southern tip of the rockies but I think I’m looking forward to the start of a new season already.   Thanks TYR,  I needed that! Mike

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