Question:

ps: Thanks for thinking of me.

We are.

Response:

Dude, I wanted to make sure you didn’t think I was being rude when I posted "the other side is good"  or something like that.  What I meant is that when all the downers are over, it feels so good to take a breathe of fresh air and to press on.

Response:

Dude, I wanted to make sure you didn’t think I was being rude when I posted "the other side is good"  or something like that.  What I meant is that when all the downers are over, it feels so good to take a breathe of fresh air and to press on.

Nope, not at all bro…for you speak the truth…life goes on!

Response:

Coolness!  Me too.  Going to fetch the boat tomorrow

Whoo Hoo…get that sucker in the water and have a blast! Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

Sorry to hear that dude. Take care of yourself Thanks Anna! I was going to *ping* you since you own a Dude Pit Limited Edition…look at this thread on The Pit please and post your info. http://p219.ezboard.com/fthedudepitfrm21.showMessage?topicID=715.topic

Hi ya Yes I would if I could My boyfriend has kidnapped the green un so it’s actually his now – so I haven’t got access to the serial no. (yes we still live apart). Anna — iChat/AOL/ICQ: annabassand (AOL/AIM handle)

Response:

Sorry to hear about your string of bad luck.

Yes, but I’ve aslo had a bigger string of good luck..details forthcoming. Gonna be too busy soon for a relationship anyway. Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

Yes, but I’ve aslo had a bigger string of good luck..details forthcoming. Gonna be too busy soon for a relationship anyway.

Coolness!  Me too.  Going to fetch the boat tomorrow Dad arrived safe.  He’s sleeping upstairs. ROAD TRIP!!! —    O< "There is nothing- absolutely nothing- half so much worth doing /()    as simply messing about in boats."   ~Wind In The Willows    ^^                                                      Slidell, LA

Response:

I hope you’re smiling again when I see you at NAMM.

I’ll be there with bells on Clive don’t worry and this year I I won’t be bringing my entourage of 5 like I did last year which was a disaster for me since I had to worry about keeping all my "ducks" in line behind me the entire show. Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

No biggie.  Just worried. Sorry to hear about your string of bad luck. David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m here….hectic month….School of Bass a few weeks ago and still digging out from all the emails, dealing with over 30 Lakland’s I ordered at NAMM that are now in at the factory, Dr’s appointments with Pop who continues to decline in heath and the cherry on top is that Dee and I called it quits after nearly 7 years together….the 1,000 mile distance just finally took it’s toll after 18 months. Just a lot on my plate and not all of it good I’m afraid. Need something David? Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m here….hectic month….School of Bass a few weeks ago and still digging out from all the emails, dealing with over 30 Lakland’s I ordered at NAMM that are now in at the factory, Dr’s appointments with Pop who continues to decline in heath and the cherry on top is that Dee and I called it quits after nearly 7 years together….the 1,000 mile distance just finally took it’s toll after 18 months. Just a lot on my plate and not all of it good I’m afraid. Need something David? Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Sorry to hear that dude. Take care of yourself /Anna — iChat/AOL/ICQ: annabassand (AOL/AIM handle)

Response:

I hope you’re smiling again when I see you at NAMM. All the best mate. C

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ps: Thanks for thinking of me.

Response:

Hey, I’ll be coming through Santa Rosa in late July (the Vineman triathlon). Is that where your Vintage Bass Trading Co. has its physical incarnation? It would be fun to stop by. If not, oh well. Hang in there with the waves life is tossing you. With luck, you will be able to surf them. Andrew http://www.andrewduncan.ws

Response:

Sorry to hear that dude. Take care of yourself

Thanks Anna! I was going to *ping* you since you own a Dude Pit Limited Edition…look at this thread on The Pit please and post your info. http://p219.ezboard.com/fthedudepitfrm21.showMessage?topicID=715.topic

Response:

Hey, I’ll be coming through Santa Rosa in late July (the Vineman triathlon). Is that where your Vintage Bass Trading Co. has its physical incarnation? It would be fun to stop by. If not, oh well.

Sorry Andrew but VBTC relocated to Arizona going on 2 years ago now. Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

Sad to hear that. I wish you a lot of courage, and little bit of luck.

Thanks Henry…this too shall pass.

Response:

Just a lot on my plate and not all of it good I’m afraid.

Hang in there man.  Might get rocky but there’s always the other side to make up for it.

Response:

Sad to hear that. I wish you a lot of courage, and little bit of luck. — Henry! "Your shoes have got to match what colour guitar you’re playing. I had this black guitar and I was going, ‘Gem, I can’t seem to dress with this guitar’." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m here….hectic month….School of Bass a few weeks ago and still digging out from all the emails, dealing with over 30 Lakland’s I ordered at NAMM that are now in at the factory, Dr’s appointments with Pop who continues to decline in heath and the cherry on top is that Dee and I called it quits after nearly 7 years together….the 1,000 mile distance just finally took it’s toll after 18 months. Just a lot on my plate and not all of it good I’m afraid. Need something David? Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

ps: Thanks for thinking of me.

Response:

He has been conspicuously absent lately. DA

Response:

I’m here….hectic month….School of Bass a few weeks ago and still digging out from all the emails, dealing with over 30 Lakland’s I ordered at NAMM that are now in at the factory, Dr’s appointments with Pop who continues to decline in heath and the cherry on top is that Dee and I called it quits after nearly 7 years together….the 1,000 mile distance just finally took it’s toll after 18 months. Just a lot on my plate and not all of it good I’m afraid. Need something David? Steve "Dude" Barr http://www.TheDudePit.com http://www.VintageBass.com http://www.schoolofbass.com Another one coming soon!

Response:

Question:

Mike Pigg’s PC Coach 2000 Triathlon Training Plan $50 OBO

Response:

You may want to wait until the update comes out.  Perhaps Pigg 2 will be a significant improvement. -Robert Mike Pigg’s PC Coach 2000 Triathlon Training Plan $50 OBO

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do." – Savielly Tartakover, Chess Grandmaster

Response:

Is there an expected release date for this update? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may want to wait until the update comes out.  Perhaps Pigg 2 will be a significant improvement. -Robert

Response:

Ken: Several months ago they sent me an email in response to some questions I had about their program and they suggested an update was coming,  I believe,  in March or April.  I know PC Coach Light got a small upgrade two months ago.  I’ve been checking their web site, but see no mention of Pigg 2 being released. Anyway, kudos to them for tri-ing, even if they haven’t gotten it right yet.   Computerized coaching done without the input of a coach will probably always be limited, but I’m sure improvements of an order of magnitude are still possible in such software. Let’s hope they’ve read Friel and Sleamaker and implement some of their training ideas. Who knows, maybe they even read this newsgroup and will give us the skinny firsthand! -Robert Is there an expected release date for this update? You may want to wait until the update comes out.  Perhaps Pigg 2 will be a significant improvement. -Robert

"Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do." – Savielly Tartakover, Chess Grandmaster

Response:

Thanks, Robert, I couldn’t agree with you more. It is not a bad program but could certainly use a little tweaking from Sleamaker and Friel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken: Several months ago they sent me an email in response to some questions I had about their program and they suggested an update was coming,  I believe,  in March or April.  I know PC Coach Light got a small upgrade two months ago.  I’ve been checking their web site, but see no mention of Pigg 2 being released. Anyway, kudos to them for tri-ing, even if they haven’t gotten it right yet.   Computerized coaching done without the input of a coach will probably always be limited, but I’m sure improvements of an order of magnitude are still possible in such software. Let’s hope they’ve read Friel and Sleamaker and implement some of their training ideas. Who knows, maybe they even read this newsgroup and will give us the skinny firsthand! -Robert Is there an expected release date for this update? You may want to wait until the update comes out.  Perhaps Pigg 2 will be a significant improvement. -Robert "Tactics is knowing what to do when there is something to do. Strategy is knowing what to do when there is nothing to do." – Savielly Tartakover, Chess Grandmaster

Response:

Question:

IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

and got a few messages of disagreement.  I didn’t read Tom’s message as saying the ONLY IM is IMH, but rather something more along the lines of what Mike Plant so eloquently describs in his book "Iron Will."   My spin on it is there is THE Ironman (Kona), which is kinda like triathlon’s Holy Grail, and then there are other Ironman or ironman distance races, which doesn’t diminish their stature in any way.  My first was GFT, and the moment I crossed the finish line down there in Clermont, I considered myself an Ironman.  In my book, you put in the training, you do the distance, you earn the title. John John Faith Fort Washington, MD, USA "Hell, kid – I’m too old to grow up! – Huey Walker

Response:

I wasn’t having a go at you, more at the guy who said other IM’s weren’t the real deal. I typed those words with an ironic/sarcastic tone! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

As sarcastic as I can be, I seem to always miss others sarcasim, my bad. tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

So even if the distance is the same IMH is real and every other one is a poser. Interesting concept. Charlie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So we can assume you’ve done both, I guess, eh? Congrats. I wasn’t real enough to get to IMH, had to suffer through Lake Placid instead. I can’t even call myself an Ironman can I? Guess I’ll have to try harder. IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

Response:

Isn’t that a bit like saying that the only real Marathon is in Greece? Phil | | IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a | venue to "do the distance". | |

Response:

IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

Man, I could have sworn I did a real IM in Penticton in ‘98 and GFT in ‘99. Mike "Must have been dreaming or something" Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 16:17:03 Great Floridian ‘99, 17:13:38

Response:

Who made the Boston marathon the "real" one? It’s not even the "right" distance, and of course a "real" marathon should be run barefoot and you should die shortly after crossing the line. Phil

You missed my piont.  My piont was 26.2 miles in your backyard is just as real a marathon as the Boston marathon.  I only used Boston as an example because from my perspective it is the most famous, competitive, and it has a qualifying system (as does IMH- from which I was drawing a parallel). tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

Tim I wasn’t having a go at you, more at the guy who said other IM’s weren’t the real deal. I typed those words with an ironic/sarcastic tone! Sorry for the misunderstanding. Phil

| | Who made the Boston marathon the "real" one? It’s not even the "right" | distance, and of course a "real" marathon should be run barefoot and you | should die shortly after crossing the line. | | Phil | | You missed my piont.  My piont was 26.2 miles in your backyard is just as real | a marathon as the Boston marathon.  I only used Boston as an example because | from my perspective it is the most famous, competitive, and it has a qualifying | system (as does IMH- from which I was drawing a parallel). | | | | | tim(dogspot1) | buaidh no bas

Response:

Hey, all you IM veterans out there: If all goes well in my training this season, and I feel good after a fall 1/2-IM and Marathon, I want to try a full IM next season.  My two probable candidates are Ironman Florida and Ironman Lake Placid, but I know these two races fill up quickly.  What’s the best way to get in? – Lou Before you buy.

Response:

Hey, all you IM veterans out there: If all goes well in my training this season, and I feel good after a fall 1/2-IM and Marathon, I want to try a full IM next season.  My two probable candidates are Ironman Florida and Ironman Lake Placid, but I know these two races fill up quickly.  What’s the best way to get in? – Lou Before you buy.

IMF signup began in January this year, 2 months after the race.  If you are weighing a 1/2IM in the fall that should give you time to sign up in Jan for IMF of 2001.  Simply put, if you race your 1/2 in October( or whatever) you will have 2 months before IMF applications are sent out.  As far as IMLP, you will have to wait 1.5 years after that race.. Short answer: stay on track of when the first day of registration is and apply that day. Good luck Before you buy.

Response:

Hmmm. Probably _the best_ way to ensure you get in is to be on hand at either of the two race’s pre-race registrations, find someone who’s not planning on doing the race next year, and ask them to give you their registration for next year, or to photocopy it – which is in the bag with their race numbers, etc. Maybe not the nicest way since it’s not really fair (and not really "legal"), but it offers you the first chance of getting a registration before the masses get them. Another way would be to be really fast and qualify – there are, I believe, qualifying spots for each race for next year. I’m not 100% about that, but I think it’s true. The other is to be an internet hawk and keep a close eye on the websites for each and be part of the first come, first serve process – the only fair way to everyone else. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, all you IM veterans out there: If all goes well in my training this season, and I feel good after a fall 1/2-IM and Marathon, I want to try a full IM next season.  My two probable candidates are Ironman Florida and Ironman Lake Placid, but I know these two races fill up quickly.  What’s the best way to get in? – Lou Before you buy.

Response:

     I can’t speak for next year, but IMF only just filled up this past week.   They announced 2004 competitors are now signed up (with expectations of 10% not showing).      so it took over 4 months to fill…..Oppps, now watch it fill up in 9 hrs next year.   Just be prepared to sign up for Florida within the week after the race(Nov4) and you should be OK, They have an on-line sign up through Active USA

Response:

Lou, You may want to also consider the Great Floridian Triathlon in Orlando.  I’ve heard nothing but good stuff about it and it’s not as tough to get into as the other races.  It takes place about the same time as IM Florida.

Response:

I wouldn’t be surpassed if IMUSA doesn’t fill up very quickly in the future. With the publicity they are getting like; qualifying slots to get into IMUSA at Columbia-Tri for example.  (Still haven’t quite figured that one out? I mean why you have to qualify to pay $350 or so bucks when everybody else got in without "qualifying") Doesn’t IMC fill up like in a few days.  I feel certain this will eventually happen with IMUSA too. I’d plan on entering the minute its open.  Are you familiar with the Marine Corp Marathon fiasco that occurred this year. What, it filled up in like 5 days. That was something like 16,000 entries! IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

Response:

Hey, all you IM veterans out there: If all goes well in my training this season, and I feel good after a fall 1/2-IM and Marathon, I want to try a full IM next season.  My two probable candidates are Ironman Florida and Ironman Lake Placid, but I know these two races fill up quickly.  What’s the best way to get in? – Lou

Generally, applications for next year’s IM races in North America are taken the day after this year’s races. So, if you want to get into the Lake Placid Race in 2001, you will have to apply for the race on July 31, the day after this year’s race (July 30). Log on to the appropriate website (www.ironmanusa.com or www.ironmanflorida.com) for how to apply for the race. They will most likely have e-registration available, probably the most preferred way to do it nowadays. Good luck                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

I wouldn’t be surpassed if IMUSA doesn’t fill up very quickly in the future. With the publicity they are getting like; qualifying slots to get into IMUSA at Columbia-Tri for example.  (Still haven’t quite figured that one out? I mean why you have to qualify to pay $350 or so bucks when everybody else got in without "qualifying")

Frankly, I’m a little bit confused on that also. I agree that  the qualification would maybe be a little more legit if discounts in the race fees were the incentive. Doesn’t IMC fill up like in a few days.  I feel certain this will eventually happen with IMUSA too.

Was a few hours last year. Expect the registration process to change a little because it was utter chaos last year. With IMUSA, you’re going to have to give it several more years. The race has to be established a little more before the rush is on. Then again, I might be wrong… I’d plan on entering the minute its open.  Are you familiar with the Marine Corp Marathon fiasco that occurred this year. What, it filled up in like 5 days. That was something like 16,000 entries!

Well, one plus with the rush to get in is that I guess more people are getting fit today than ever before. We Americans are living in an obese society and to see more people going into these races is good news. IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

IM is now getting "newbie friendly". Anybody can enter these races and try the distance. On the business end of it, since the demand is high, the WTC has opted for more races to satisfy the need. And while some, including me, have questioned some of the WTC’s business practices, including skyrocketing entry fees and other such factors, this is all due to the basic principle of supply and demand. Now back to your regularly scheduled program…                           |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37          |   Fe   |   IMCAL, IMC Y2K IMC’99: 10:45:03          |        |                  "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING"

Response:

So we can assume you’ve done both, I guess, eh? Congrats. I wasn’t real enough to get to IMH, had to suffer through Lake Placid instead. I can’t even call myself an Ironman can I? Guess I’ll have to try harder. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

Response:

IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

This is like saying the New York Marathon in no way constitutes the real marathon that is the Boston marathon blah blah blah.  IMH is indeed the Boston marathon of Triathlon, probobly not the toughest but definately the most competitive.  However anyone who has run 26.2 miles at a pop has run a marathon and anyone who has completed 2.4-112-26.2 at a pop has done a full on "real" IM, I don’t care if it was in your back yard with a couple friends.   tim(dogspot1) buaidh no bas

Response:

IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a venue to "do the distance".

Tom, having done IMC, IMH and IMOz… I disagree.  Any IM distance race is a proper ironman in my opinion.  Of course, I do know that many people share your opinion. gordo

Response:

Who made the Boston marathon the "real" one? It’s not even the "right" distance, and of course a "real" marathon should be run barefoot and you should die shortly after crossing the line. Phil

| | IMHO IMUSA-LP in no way constitutes the real IM that is IMH but it is a | venue to "do the distance". | | This is like saying the New York Marathon in no way constitutes the real | marathon that is the Boston marathon blah blah blah.  IMH is indeed the Boston | marathon of Triathlon, probobly not the toughest but definately the most | competitive.  However anyone who has run 26.2 miles at a pop has run a marathon | and anyone who has completed 2.4-112-26.2 at a pop has done a full on "real" | IM, I don’t care if it was in your back yard with a couple friends. | | tim(dogspot1) | buaidh no bas

Response:

Question:

You can buy fancy contraptions that hold a special water bottle.  I found that a fanny pack, buckled snugly, holds a water bottle just fine.  It’s a small nuisance to work the zipper to get the bottle in & out, but cheap and effective. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may be a stupid question, but where do you put your water bottle so it doesn’t bother you when running?  I make sure my route includes a few water fountains here and there, but I’d love to start carrying water / Gatorade.

Response:

This may be a stupid question, but where do you put your water bottle so it doesn’t bother you when running?  I make sure my route includes a few water fountains here and there, but I’d love to start carrying water / Gatorade.

Your running store would likely carry a single or double bottle carrier – a belt that holds one or two bottles, plus (usually) pockets to hold keys, coins, and other things.  Most people wear it with the bottle at the back, although there is no real right way.  Many people hate this system with a passion because the bottle bugs them when they run.  I wear the bottle on long runs only and it has never bothered me.  Cinched tight, after a while, I don’t realize it is there. — Lorne Sundby

Response:

This may be a stupid question, but where do you put your water bottle so it doesn’t bother you when running?  I make sure my route includes a few water fountains here and there, but I’d love to start carrying water / Gatorade.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just gotten to where I can run 9+ miles in preparation for a 1/2 marathon in February.  However, I find that near the end of the run (like mile 7) I am absolutely starving…seriously hungrier than I have ever been before.  A friend recommended taking "goo" along which is like a liquid power bar and taking that when those pangs hit.  Do they work? Do you have to have water to use them? I have the same problem.  I run early on Sundays and have a powerbar and water for breakfast.  Then during the run I start to starve somewhere around the first hour.  On the occasions I haven’t eaten, I’ve been wasted physically by the end of the run.  Regardless of whether I snack during the run, I eat the house when I get home. I’ve tried powerbars during the run – one bite every 2k or so after an hour has worked pretty good.  I pretty much have to walk and chew – running is apparently too much for my brain.  I’ve tried gels too (yes, drink them with lots of water) – for me, they don’t take away the hunger as much as help with energy (could be psychosomatic; doesn’t matter to me).  And recently with the cold I’ve started running with gatorade (my water was freezing, but gatorade stays liquid longer) and I’ve found that helps cut the hunger a bit too. The advice I’ve been given by wise people on this ng is try everything during training to find something that works, then use that in a race. Never, ever, try something for the first time in a race.  The other advice I’ve been given – different things work for different people, so find what works for you. Good luck — Lorne Sundby

Response:

Try taking Chromium, about 200 mcg, it helps with leveling of blood sugar  Roy

Response:

I have just gotten to where I can run 9+ miles in preparation for a 1/2 marathon in February.  However, I find that near the end of the run (like mile 7) I am absolutely starving…seriously hungrier than I have ever been before.  A friend recommended taking "goo" along which is like a liquid power bar and taking that when those pangs hit.  Do they work?  Do you have to have water to use them? Appreciate your advise. Laura

Laura, You may have a very high metabolism which burns up a lot of calories.  If you’re running 9+ miles and craving energy at mile 7, then something doesn’t sound right. Some of us who’ve been running from the mid 70’s and before, never had the benefit of the high carbo GU’s and PowerBar Squeezies. We were told that the energy you take the two days before your long run, will give you enough energy to run your marathon.  All I know is that doing 12 to 20 milers we mostly drank water and no food or carbo drinks.  When we were lucky enought to get someone to act as a sag wagon, we’re have ERG mainly and later with the advent of Gatorade…Gatorade.  So for 6 to 20 mile distances, I’ve never been able to eat along the way.  In ultras it’s a whole different story. But as I’ve repeated over and over, I don’t mess with anyone’s folklore. If it works for you, then do what works. It takes 3 grams of water to store a gram of glycogen in the muscles.  The glycogen you store in the liver feeds the brain.  So it’s important the two days b efore the longer training run to drink enough water so that you are storing the energy you’ll be needing to finish your long run. For many people the longer distances diminish apetite.  I’ve also known many runners who need to get up early to have their bagel or toast or banana or whatever. As someone in one of the other replies mentioned,  check out the amount of water you’re taking the day or two before your run.  When my wife did her first marathon, she carbo loaded but didn’t drink enought water.  So she was carbo loaded but not fully hydrated and hit her wall around 14 or 15 miles. The idea is to keep topping off the tank so that you run out of energy/fuel after you’ve finished your training run or your half or full marathon. That’s the import of water and being sure you’ve stored the energy you’ll need. Good luck on your half marathon next month. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running:   http://www.mindfulness.com

Response:

Do not take Goo without water, it is too thick, especially when cold. Try all types and flavors as they are very different in taste and consistancy. The Oneshots give energy but Powerbars fruit flavors do provide some help for the hunger on long runs, as I used 4 of them at Disney. Try drinking more liquids on your run and I found eating a Nutragrain bar (Cinnamon and Brown Sugar) helps the hungries when I do long training runs. And does not make me sick.  In article <%N5g4.1246$% I have just gotten to where I can run 9+ miles

in preparation for a 1/2 marathon in February.  However, I find that

near the end of the run (like mile 7) I am absolutely starving…seriously

hungrier than I have ever been before.  A friend recommended taking "goo"

along which is like a liquid power bar and taking that when those pangs

hit.  Do they work?  Do you have to have water to use them? Appreciate your advise. Laura

Before you buy.

Response:

I have just gotten to where I can run 9+ miles in preparation for a 1/2 marathon in February.  However, I find that near the end of the run (like mile 7) I am absolutely starving…seriously hungrier than I have ever been before.  A friend recommended taking "goo" along which is like a liquid power bar and taking that when those pangs hit.  Do they work?  Do you have to have water to use them? Appreciate your advise. Laura

Response:

"…a friend recommended taking "goo" along which is like a liquid power bar and taking that when those pangs hit.  Do they work?  Do you have to have water to use them?

GU may help with your fatigue late in your runs, but I don’t think it’ll satisfy your hunger pangs.  I’d recommend a bagel, banana or something else reasonably light about an hour before you run.  Most of my friends run before eating breakfast in the morning, but I try to squeeze in  a bagel and coffee before heading out to the park to run ‘cuz I’m a hungry little feller…. When you do take GU, definitely have water handy.  It’s kind of like ingesting axle grease, laced with sugar (Not that I REALLY know what axle grease tastes like…. ). Run long and well, Paul Gelinas —- "We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret or disappointment." —  (Jim Rohn)

Response:

I have just gotten to where I can run 9+ miles in preparation for a 1/2 marathon in February.  However, I find that near the end of the run (like mile 7) I am absolutely starving…seriously hungrier than I have ever been before.  A friend recommended taking "goo" along which is like a liquid power bar and taking that when those pangs hit.  Do they work? Do you have to have water to use them?

I have the same problem.  I run early on Sundays and have a powerbar and water for breakfast.  Then during the run I start to starve somewhere around the first hour.  On the occasions I haven’t eaten, I’ve been wasted physically by the end of the run.  Regardless of whether I snack during the run, I eat the house when I get home. I’ve tried powerbars during the run – one bite every 2k or so after an hour has worked pretty good.  I pretty much have to walk and chew – running is apparently too much for my brain.  I’ve tried gels too (yes, drink them with lots of water) – for me, they don’t take away the hunger as much as help with energy (could be psychosomatic; doesn’t matter to me).  And recently with the cold I’ve started running with gatorade (my water was freezing, but gatorade stays liquid longer) and I’ve found that helps cut the hunger a bit too. The advice I’ve been given by wise people on this ng is try everything during training to find something that works, then use that in a race.   Never, ever, try something for the first time in a race.  The other advice I’ve been given – different things work for different people, so find what works for you. Good luck — Lorne Sundby

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the reason you should use GU with water (or any gel) is so it will be absorbed quickly.  the normal recommendation is a cup of water to a gel packet.  during a run or triathlon (my normal use of them) i can feel it kick in at about 12-15 minutes.  however, i take them on a regular schedule throughout the race, starting early, so that i never get low or hungry while engaged in the workout or race.   i’ve used almost all of the brands available & all work about equally with me with the exception of squeezies, which didn’t do anything for me.  

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Question:

– Before you started exercising the muscles in your feet were contracted and stiff, causing the toes to curl. Running exercised the muscles which then attained their natural length and flexibility. In the process your toes straightned resulting in the need for larger shoe. I’ve been running for nearly 40 years and my arches havn’t collapsed yet. /             / | oo       oo |/ ||     |||     ||    Pete, ||             ||        |     ===     |       //|\

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Susan, my feet grew a size after having a baby.   Marda

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I only just started this year, and my feet have grown half a size.  I have always needed orthotics though, and when my last pair wore down to the hard plastic,  I stopped wearing them.  I now wear Dr.Schols at work, and just quality insoles in my running.  Ive had no problems as of yet, maybe my feet and ancles are stronger.  I would like to know, though, if there are breathable, flexable, cushioned athetic perscription orthotics out there. Jon.

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There are some wonderful (and expensive) ortholics out there.  Every marathon expo I’ve been to has had people there selling lighter, softer orthodics.  Remember tho’, the softer they are the faster they will break down and the sooner they have to be replaced.  I get leather ones from a chiropractor and they are great.  I was wearing them full time and only getting one marathon out of them (I do 2 a year) but I am trying wearing them only to run and having no problems so maybe I’ll get a full year out of them. Good luck, Andrea

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A respected local runner informed me that about 70% of runners eventually develop fallen arches. I’ve developed flat feet over the years, but thought it was a heredity trait.

My feet have increased at least a full shoe size since I began running regularly in adulthood, and I hear it’s quite a common observation.  It isn’t just a case of a change in shoe sizing or manufacturer either.  Two pairs of boots that I wear only a few times a year, and did so for many years in my 20s, were suddenly one winter (after my first summer/fall of real running) way too small.  Since I don’t imagine our foot bones are really increasing in length, it could be that our arches are flattening. Is it normal for feet to flatten gradually over a lifetime?  Maybe it just happens more quickly in runners.  My feet still arch, don’t know if they’re less arched than before, though.  A flat-footed friend of mine says that his arches fell all at once during a long hard run in high-school, during a period of high-mileage running.   Susan Hall                             (__)       _   Dalhousie University                          .’  `.                                                ’"                                                       .       (  )   Triathlon Nova Scotia Website                ’-| )__| :.     http://is.dal.ca/~susanhal/tnshome.html        | |  | |  ’.

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My feet have increased at least a full shoe size since I began running regularly in adulthood, and I hear it’s quite a common observation.  It isn’t just a case of a change in shoe sizing or manufacturer either.  Two

Perhaps it is your pre-running days when your feet were abnormally stiff and cramped.  Running has made your feet more agile and muscular, and somewhat larger, the way they were genetically designed!

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A respected local runner informed me that about 70% of runners eventually develop fallen arches. I’ve developed flat feet over the years, but thought it was a heredity trait. Has anyone done any studies about this? Is 70% an accurate figure? — Jeff

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Question:

Swim 1.5 km, bike 40 km, run 10 km YES, it’s and it’s best ! Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound stupid, but exactly how far are the swim bike run segments on an Olympic distance tri?  Thought I knew but a comment from someone else made me wonder… John Swim 1.5 km, bike 40 km, run 10 km….at least that’s my understanding. Tim

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Swim 1.5 km, bike 40 km, run 10 km YES, it’s and it’s best !

G’day everyone, When I was in Holland however, I kept getting into arguments with my rellies who all reckoned that the "Olympic Distance" and "True Distance" Triathlon which pple race week in week out is the Ironman Distanced one :-/ YES the O.D. Tri is 1500/40/10, but does anyone know what the true tri race distance which is used to rank triathletes by the ITU is? *shy shrug* Adinda

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I don’t consider any ITU race a true triathlon! Mike

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: I don’t consider any ITU race a true triathlon! : Mike I agree totally, especially when I watch one of the races on ESPN. I was disgusted when the first person out of the water and first on the bike slowed and waited for the first group to arrive so they can draft. I was equally disgusted when the group swelled to about 20 riders (no kidding!) and came into the bike/run transition in a mass mob. Down with drafting! Iron Pete      —–tough as nails

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: I don’t consider any ITU race a true triathlon! I agree totally, especially when I watch one of the races on ESPN. I was disgusted when the first person out of the water and first on the bike slowed and waited for the first group to arrive so they can draft. I was equally disgusted when the group swelled to about 20 riders (no kidding!) and came into the bike/run transition in a mass mob. Down with drafting!

I try not to condone ITU races by even watching the broadcasts, but I must confess to breaking down and tuning into one last week. What a joke! I just couldn’t stomach the commentators constantly telling me how much more exciting this new format is. I don’t know if we’re talking about the same race, but in the one I watched the commentators kept mentioning what poor tactics it was for the bike leader to not wait on the chase pack so that she could save her legs for the run. The sad part, of course, is that they were right. Chris Christopher N. Baucom She said, "It’s really not my habit to intrude, and furthermore, I hope my meaning won’t be lost or misconstrued… — Paul Simon

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I believe the distances are based on the standard racing distances used in their respective individual sports. snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.5 Kilometer swim 40  Kilometer cycle 10  Kilometer run It would be interesting to know how these distances were determined. Anyone know? Stephen

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John :  Not a stupid question given that there are so many different lengths of races around.  The Olympic triathlon will be based on : 1.5 Kilometer swim 40  Kilometer cycle 10  Kilometer run It would be interesting to know how these distances were determined. Anyone know? Stephen

I agree, John that was not a stupid question.   I have a theory about the distances 40K for a bike is a fairly traditional time trial distance for cyclists and at just under 25 miles is a pretty good number for recreational riders to achieve. 10K for a run is a pretty standard and easily understood distance for most.  A lot of triathletes came from running originally so this makes some sense. 1.5k for a swim:  That one I will not venture a guess on except that for our international brethren it makes more sense than a 1.609k swim (which would be a mile).

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In This may sound stupid, but exactly how far are the swim bike run segments on an Olympic distance tri?  Thought I knew but a comment from someone else made me wonder… John

Swim 1.5 km, bike 40 km, run 10 km….at least that’s my understanding. Tim

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I read that they were based on the length of time of a marathon.  They (IOC) wanted the races to have similar time lengths. I don’t really have a clue about marathons, so the info could be incorrect. Wood – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe the distances are based on the standard racing distances used in their respective individual sports. snip 1.5 Kilometer swim 40  Kilometer cycle 10  Kilometer run It would be interesting to know how these distances were determined. Anyone know? Stephen

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This may sound stupid, but exactly how far are the swim bike run segments on an Olympic distance tri?  Thought I knew but a comment from someone else made me wonder… John

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This may sound stupid, but exactly how far are the swim bike run segments on an Olympic distance tri?  Thought I knew but a comment from someone else made me wonder… John

John :  Not a stupid question given that there are so many different lengths of races around.  The Olympic triathlon will be based on : 1.5 Kilometer swim 40  Kilometer cycle 10  Kilometer run It would be interesting to know how these distances were determined. Anyone know? Stephen

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Question:

G’day triathletes, coaches and sport scientists. I am posting this letter to aid my research for my independent study which I am completing with 2 other students.  We are 3rd year Human Movement and Sport Science students at Ballarat University in Victoria, Australia. We are keen sport scientists and all avid athletes, I (Michael) am a duathlete, Simon is a triathlete, and Angus plays Australian Rules Football. Our research is into the structure of triathlon training programs, with an emphasis on minimising the problem of overtraining amoungst triathletes. By gathering information from coaches, athletes and other sport science persons, we are endeavouring to determine a set of guidlines and criteria for the ideal structure of triathlon training programs.  Such a program will of course be fully periodised and consist of macro and microcycles specifics.  Any information which you can email us would be greatly appreciated, as it will expand our knowledge base, and result in a comprehansive and more valid study.  If interested we would be happy to supply all informants with the results of out research, which hopefully could be quite useful and practical to both coaches and athletes. We look forward to your response. Yours in triathlon, Michael Humphreys, Simon Connolly & Angus Ross

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G’day fella’s,      I am currently in a bad overtraing rut right now,  could I have a copy of you research when you complete it?  I’d be happy to shoot the bull with you guys sometime. Talk to you later.     Oli

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Question:

By word of mouth and the attention paid the event by Triathlon Magazine, including information on its Internet Web site, the number of participants climbed from about 430 last year.

Yeah, that and the one and two-page full color ads they’ve been taking out for months in every magazine in sight. Local athletes returning from last year’s race include Chad Hawker, 22, and Steve Rammel, 36, each of whom won his age group.

Well, I know a few key locals they missed! A unique feature to The Triathlon at Pacific Grove is the "Kelp Crawl" swim, so named for the slow pace of athletes contending with the thick kelp.

Does this mean that already slow swimmers like me have an advantage? — Steve Patt  Stevens Creek Software  The Athlete’s Diary & Bookstore  WWW: http://www.stevenscreek.com  FTP: ftp.stevenscreek.com  1-800-TA-DIARY

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A unique feature to The Triathlon at Pacific Grove is the "Kelp Crawl" swim, so named for the slow pace of athletes contending with the thick kelp. Steve Patt wrote… Does this mean that already slow swimmers like me have an advantage?

That’s the way I read it.  It’s kind of like a negative wetsuit — it disproportionately affects the fast swimmers.  Short of going backwards, I’m already about as slow as they come.  This could be just the race I’ve been looking for. The Carmel Group "Of course the game is rigged, but if you don’t play you can’t win." R.A.H.

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This was in today’s paper… From the Monterey County Herald, Wednesday, 11 September, 1996 P.G.’s Triathlon Might Become Olympic Lead-In By Brian Gaylord, Herald Staff Writer The Triathlon at Pacific Grove is set for its second annual incarnation Saturday, with between 550 to 600 athletes scheduled to participate.  The race is attracting talent and gaining steam for a bid to become a qualifying event when the Summer Olympics hold its first triathlon in Sydney, Australia, in 2000. This Olympic-distance event features a 1.5-kilometer swim off Lovers Point, followed by a 40K bike race along the Pacific Grove coastline and ending with a 10K run from Lovers Point along the recreation trail to the front of the Monterey Bay Aquarium and returning for the finish at Lovers Point. The first group of swimmers goes off at 7:45 a.m. There will be pros, elites (top amateurs), and amateur age-groupers, which this year includes a tier younger than last year’s 15-to-19 age group — a 14-and-under group. Last year’s event went off without a hitch, according to organizers Terry and Betsy Davis of Pacific Grove.  By word of mouth and the attention paid the event by Triathlon Magazine, including information on its Internet Web site, the number of participants climbed from about 430 last year. Triathlete Magazine also made a juicy proposal.  The magazine, in conjunction with Tricom Pictures, will launch Triathlete TV in 1997.  The approached the Davises with a request that The Triathlon at Pacific Grove be part of the series’ pilot show. "We’re shooting the event and providing the footage to Triathlete Magazine," said Terry, 48. That the event is held on a loop course, where athletes do laps in a condensed area as opposed to a course stretched out over the distances, makes it amenable to television coverage. The event has attracted some top talent this year.  Along with 1995 Triathlon at Pacific Grove women’s champion Lauren Alexander will be Paula Newby-Fraser, a seven-time Hawaii Ironman world champion.  They will be joined by Heather Fuhr, the 1996 Ironman Japan winner. The men’s event will feature professionals Jimmy Ricatello, Jonathan Barber and Andrew Kelsey, who was picked by Triathlete Magazine to make the U.S. Olympic triathlon team. Local athletes returning from last year’s race include Chad Hawker, 22, and Steve Rammel, 36, each of whom won his age group. Also new this year will be the USA Triathlon National Club Championships. The club teams consist of between two to four men and two to four women. Each athlete does the entire triathlon, and the top two men’s and women’s times count as the club’s time.  The clubs will be the first group of the day. A unique feature to The Triathlon at Pacific Grove is the "Kelp Crawl" swim, so named for the slow pace of athletes contending with the thick kelp. "The (Hawaii) Ironman has the lava fields — we have the kelp swim," said Terry Davis. New this year will be relay races hosted by KSBW-TV and KWAV radio.  There will be several divisions, including a corporate division.  The relay teams will consist of three members, each of whom performs one leg of the race. The overall prize money purse is $3,500, with the overall winner of men’s and women’s divisions each receiving $1,000. Spectators are encouraged to ditch their cars in favor of walking or pedaling to watch the racers, or pick a spot and sit tight. The Carmel Group "Of course the game is rigged, but if you don’t play you can’t win." R.A.H.

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Question:

I have compared the standard deviations for swim, bike and run times for sprint races.  On this basis, the swim is worth about half as much as the bike and run.

Could you explain this in more detail?  (I’m not a statistician, but I know what a standard deviation is.  You need to take standard deviation into account, but the mean is the more important figure, isn’t it?)  Seems to me that I run 4 times as far in a given time as I can swim in that time.  Why is the swim worth half, rather than one-quarter as much as the run?  And the bike is obviously worth more. Or am I missing something? Indoor tri’s could be great events, but the way they’re run now, they’re just a chance for the bikers to flex their muscles.  (Spoken like a triathlete whose worst leg is the bike, eh?)   – marty — Marty Billingsley

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I have compared the standard deviations for swim, bike and run times for sprint races.  On this basis, the swim is worth about half as much as the bike and run. Our company fitness center sponsers an indoor event, with 20 minutes for each leg.  They double the swim distance before adding the bike and run distances.  After appropriate translations, I determined that this scoring system works about the same way. — Curt Austin          http://www.iac.net/~curta/ Cincinnati, Ohio

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I was thinking about a short tri of 15 minutes per event with 5 minutes : in between events. Sounds fine to me.  For some reason, all 5 of the ones I know about that were held in Chicago this year were structured as follows: 10 min swim pool 5-10 min transition  (10 min is time to go to a locker, dry & change) 20 min bike (stationary) 5 min transition 15 min run (4 were track, 1 was treadmill) I don’t know why this distribution was chosen.  Your idea of 15-15-15 would still be pretty close to it.

I’ve tried to suggest to the people who run these events — for a couple of years now — that they alter the format.  If you can believe it, the way they score these tri’s are to add up the total distance.  What a crock!!  Not only is the swim ‘way shorter than the bike and run (and the run shorter than the bike), but with the total distances added up, a strong biker could totally skip the swim and still win the event.  And this is a fair competition? Nonsense!! For example, let’s say in a 10-minute swim, person A swims 200m further than person B.  That’s a *lot*, a huge difference in swimming ability.  Now, person B is a slightly better biker than person A and bikes 300m further in 20 minutes.  That’s pretty easy to do!  Assume they’re equal runners.  Person B will win the event, by dint of being a little bit better biker, but a *much* worse swimmer.  That’s unreasonable: he’s obviously not the better triathlete! The Downtown Sports Club in Chicago, who put on the first indoor triathlons in the city (as far as I know), starting about 1986 or 87, used to score them in an interesting way.  First of all, the events were 20 minutes each: no lopsided event here!  If you were the fastest swimmer you got 100 points, 2nd fastest got 98 points, etc.  Same with biking and running.  At the end, the person with the most points won.  One advantage of this was that the event could be held over a period of a week, with people coming in at their convenience to run the race (there wasn’t enough room to hold the event all at once).  It worked out pretty well, and the results seem fair.  (Unlike the results of the indoor tri series that I’ve seen over the past couple of years.) Another way to score these indoor events, where you compete for a certain length of time rather than a distance, would be to calculate a reasonable "fudge factor".  I don’t know that much about biking, but I constantly compare my running and swimming times.  Running is aproximately 4 times faster than swimming (I’ll do repeat 100s (meters) in the pool in 1:25, and interval 400s on the track in 1:25 or thereabouts).  You could take the results of many people’s efforts in a triathlon and calculate a reasonable average fudge factor for both the swim and the run so that the distances are comparable to the bike distance.  Then you’d have a *much* fairer event. I know a few people who boycotted this winter’s indoor triathlon series in Chicago because of the emphasis on biking.  I hope that the folks responsible for putting it on will read this and think about changing the format. Anybody else have suggestions for a fair way of scoring an indoor tri?   – marty — Marty Billingsley

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: I was thinking about a short tri of 15 minutes per event with 5 minutes : in between events. Sounds fine to me.  For some reason, all 5 of the ones I know about that were held in Chicago this year were structured as follows: 10 min swim pool 5-10 min transition  (10 min is time to go to a locker, dry & change) 20 min bike (stationary) 5 min transition 15 min run (4 were track, 1 was treadmill) I don’t know why this distribution was chosen.  Your idea of 15-15-15 would still be pretty close to it.

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: How do you organize an indoor bike race that is fair for everyone? : Do you organize the bike using stationary trainers? : Do you provide rollers or track stands and let people bring their own : bikes?  And if so, how do you track mileage? The best setup I’ve seen is about 8 Windracers set up in series, all hooked up to a central monitor that had little color coded cyclists along with bar graphs of avg. speed, distance, etc. Since the windracers are computerized and adjusted for weight, etc. as part of the program, it was extremely accurate and far for everyone. It only took a second as you got to the bike in the 5 min. transition to punch in your weight and age, etc., and everyone was started by the computer at once. It all worked pretty well.         I’m not sure how they got all the stuff; I think the university already owned them (University of Toronto), and the software in the windracer did the rest. You might want to talk to the people at Windracer, maybe they’ll let you use some for free promo.         Good Luck!         B @ Queen’s University             Kingston, Ontario

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Our club wants to organize some events in conjunction with the athletic facility here at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Members were talking about an intramural swim meet.  This is no problem to organize but we were also interested in organizing an indoor triathlon.  None of us have ever done one before so i have a few questions. I was thinking about a short tri of 15 minutes per event with 5 minutes in between events.  I figure a swimmer can cover 1200 yds (48 lengths of a 25yd pool).  A cyclist at 20 mph can cover 5 miles and a runner at about 6.5 to 7 min miles can cover 2 to 2.5 miles.  On our depressingly small indoor track that comes out to 40 to 50 laps.  So the plan was to use the following formula: swim lengths (~ 48) + bike miles X 10 (~ 50) + laps run (~50)= total score. Does this sound reasonable?   How do you organize an indoor bike race that is fair for everyone? Do you organize the bike using stationary trainers? Do you provide rollers or track stands and let people bring their own bikes?  And if so, how do you track mileage? Any input at all would be greatly appreciated.  Now I really regret not doing the multitude of indoor triathlons that were always advertised around the Chicago area when I lived there.  :( Thanks. — John H. Kwon Albert Einstein College of Medicine

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I was thinking about a short tri of 15 minutes per event with 5 minutes in between events.  I figure a swimmer can cover 1200 yds (48 lengths of a 25yd pool).  A cyclist at 20 mph can cover 5 miles and a runner at about 6.5 to 7 min miles can cover 2 to 2.5 miles.  On our depressingly small indoor track that comes out to 40 to 50 laps.  So the plan was to use the following formula: swim lengths (~ 48) + bike miles X 10 (~ 50) + laps run (~50)= total score. Does this sound reasonable?   How do you organize an indoor bike race that is fair for everyone?

No race can be fair for everyone unless everyone finishes with the same time/place/distance for the same effort.  I would try your format with a few triathletes of varying skill and check the results. Do you organize the bike using stationary trainers? Do you provide rollers or track stands and let people bring their own bikes?  And if so, how do you track mileage?

If you use a stationary trainer, you need some way to calibrate the resistance to make it equal.  Otherwise, some people may have a very low resistance and get a big advantage against the people who set their resistance high. Any input at all would be greatly appreciated.  Now I really regret not doing the multitude of indoor triathlons that were always advertised around the Chicago area when I lived there.  :(

The series I did used the following format: Swim 10 minutes, volunteer counts lengths, swimmer gets credit for next full length if past halfway mark at 10 minutes.  Convert lengths to mileage. Bike 20 minutes on stationary exercise bike.  Use distance from odometer. Over the past three year, three types of indoor bikes were used.  The first year the top people averaged ~45MPH, so the distance was divided in half. The bike was usually the main factor in the final results.  You need to be careful on choosing an indoor bike because some models cannot be calibrated equally. Run 15 minutes on indoor track (sizes from 8 to 13.5 laps per mile), runner gets credit for full lap if past halfway mark at 15 minutes.  Covert laps to miles. Overall place was determined by total distance traveled. Be prepared to sweat! Todd Jensen                                   o AT&T Bell Labs              ___^o_    __o    <| Naperville, IL                      _ <_    _

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Question:

1. Race reports specifically IM-Germany.  The race reports in Triathlete are especially dry and uneventful.  The writers seem to forget that the majority of their audience doesn’t get a chance to race in the exotic locales of Europe, Carribean etc…  Also, they only describe the race

            ****** WoW ! I never realised I lived and raced in an exotic location. I’m off to train in the rain and cold again Darren — Biomechanics Laboratory         Dept of PE, SS & RM Loughborough University United Kingdom

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Jeffrey Justice writes: <clip…at Triathlete when I was on staff … <clip a bunch more

I hope I’m not being too nosy, but I’m curious what you’re working on now that you don’t seem to be at Triathlete. I had assumed that your call for responses to a series of questions were for future articles. Are you freelancing at the moment or working for another publication? Just curious what your involvement with triathlons is now. Please disregard this if it is none of my business. P.S. Enjoyed your review of the race in Japan televised by CBS. Did you get heat for actually writing something negative in the mag?                            _ <_         <               ___/o__    ( )/( )       /

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writes:  Are you freelancing at the moment or working for another publication? Just curious what your involvement with triathlons is now. Please disregard this if it is none of my business. P.S. Enjoyed your review of the race in Japan televised by CBS. Did you get heat for actually writing something negative in the mag? I’m still writing articles for and giving feedback to Triathlete magazine but I’m not in the office or involved in the day-to day business anymore. (Since April 1994) Yes, the Net is a really valuble source for information, mainly to see what  people are thinking about.   Some of the subjects that people E-mail to me by request I might (and have) use as a source in future training articles. I think it’s a great way to get input from talented people I would have never met. (Isn’t this the original purpose of Internet?) I’m not going to print regular posts because it’s not directed to me personally. But, I’m also a triathlete, plain and simple, and I just like to chat, just as much as everyone else in the newsgroup. JJ

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P.S. Enjoyed your review of the race in Japan televised by CBS. Did you get heat for actually writing something negative in the mag? It’s not the first time (or the last) that I’ve given a dissenting opinion concerning the beloved ITU, its rulings and its productions. Those CBS TV shows and the Goodwill Games were a new low. (Fire suit on…) Fortunately, ESPN broadcast a few good races this season. But, I  thank Les and crew for their valiant struggle for Olympic recognition. I do hope, though, that the sport that we see in the Olympics still resembles what we now know as triathlon.  I’ve got mostly good response from the Osaka critique from pros and age-groupers alike. jj

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It’s not the first time (or the last) that I’ve given a dissenting opinion concerning the beloved ITU, its rulings and its productions. Those CBS TV shows and the Goodwill Games were a new low. (Fire suit on…) Fortunately, ESPN broadcast a few good races this season. :But, I  thank Les and crew for their valiant struggle for Olympic: :recognition. I do hope, though, that the sport that we see in the Olympics :still resembles what we now know as triathlon.  :I’ve got mostly good response from the Osaka critique from pros and :age-groupers alike. OK jj, now you can use that flame suit. First, if there is a purpose to critiscism, then it will result in something positive. If the critiscism is nothing more than a venting of the spleen for personal reasons then there will probably be either negative or no result. IMHO your "review" of the CBS shows was personal and left no room for a positive response. Hence the support for your negative comments by those like-minded, negative souls. How about another perspective? Sure the CBS shows weren’t all they could be. The ITU has NO paid staff and has been held together with bailing wire, chewing gum and grit since 1989. With nothing more than a handful of volunteers (none of whom had any event production experience, television experience or sponsorship acquisition experience) they managed to piece together a World Cup circuit, provide athletes with over $500,000. in prize money and get it on TV. Now while the ITU has certainly made mistakes, where is the acknowledgement of all of the positive? Ask yourself this question. Is it better to sit outside of the house continually heaping abuse on the carpenters and architects, or is it better to join in, meet the folks, pick up a hammer and pitch in? The house may have some leaks, but that is not enough reason to burn it to the ground. All of us love the sport and we all have opinions on the direction it should take. Triathlon and cycling have one unfortunate thing in common in my experience. There are far too many people involved who are quick to point out the negative (thankfully most of them don’t own computers), and slow to praise. No one is looking for a cheerleader all the time but c’mon, in the immortal words of your friend and mine, Carl Spagler…"How about a little something for the effort?". OK, end of burn test. How does the suit work? Scott Zagarino

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So give the ITU an E for effort, but let them wait until they have enough money to pay for a television crew familiar with triathlons before they set the sport back for the rest of us as they did in Osaka.  Yesterday someone asked me "you don’t still do that triathlon stuff, do you?" waving his head in disbelief at my persistence at a clearly lunatic activity.  Where did he get this idea?  Try to explain you’re having fun, especially in Hawaii.  You’ve tried, haven’t you? Thank ITU and most of the rest of the TV coverage for most people’s attitude toward your crazy, lunatic, way-out, mindless, compulsive, headless chicken sport. I can’t undo the misconceptions created by just the Osaka show. I would enjoy hearing your defense of ITU’s rejection of three athletes based on ITU’s ownership of the word "world." Kazez

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OK, end of burn test. How does the suit work? Suit works just fine.  For the record folks, Scott Zagarino  and I actually agree on many issues, though obviously not on the ITU. If anyone is tired of our little flame wars, just say so and I’m sure Scott and I can AOL  E-mail each other to our hearts content without disturbing the news group. (We’d be great in rec.sport.swimming!) The reason for the bold slam on Osaka was not really a personal venting. I supported the ITU for years at Triathlete and respected the World Cup Series and ITU World Championships until 1992. The shows on CBS this year,  IMHO,  were premeditated  and designed as a propaganda vehicle to justify and gain acceptance for the ITU’s Drafting-OK style of racing. Myself and many others feel that this is not in the best interest of the sport. I feel that the ITU  since1992  been too busy chasing $$$ and power and has lost touch with the heart and spirit of the sport, and cares little for the triathlon general public. (Manchester for example.) The ITU’s heavy-handed control of its World Cup Series and the banning of Pigg, Tinley and Allen has intimidated numerous new pros to follow the ITU’s lead in these drafting-OK races. I’ve received enough serious complaints about the ITU’s methods from age-groupers, pros and race directors to justify taking a dissenting stand on the drafting issue, especially at International Championship races like the Goodwill Games. I’m only one person, the ITU is getting some favorable press from other writers. The athletes can read all the facts and make a well-informed choices. If the ITU wants to experience the excitement, evolution and spirit of modern-day triathlon they should attend and take notes at  races like Columbia, Mazda/Orange County, Vineman, Danskin, Gatorade Sprintman, Columbus Duathlon and, of course, the Ironman. No "excitement" problems at these races. I’m interested in the health and growth of the sport, the 99.9%. The ITU’s World Cup Series with its cast of a dozen pros has little relevance. JJ

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OK, end of burn test. How does the suit work? Suit works just fine. For the record folks, Scott Zagarino  and I actually agree on many issues, though obviously not on the ITU.   If anyone is tired of our little flame wars, just say so and I’m sure Scott and I can AOL  E-mail each other to our hearts content without disturbing the news group.   (We’d be great in rec.sport.swimming!)

[[sniped]] Oh go ahead and keep flaming each other :’)  But I’m glad you brought up the flame-wars in rec.sport.swimming.   Jeeze Louis!!!! Is that getting rediculous or WHAT?  Every day I log on to the net, find 15-30 new postings in r.s.t. and over 75 in r.s.s.  One morning it was over 100! And almost all of them flame! For those of you who don’t follow rec.sport.swimming, there’s been a race (as in racial) war going on about the Chinese Woman’s team since the last week.   Well, let us hope that us Tri-Geeks are more sophisticated! regards, jo Redondo Beach, CA

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wanker /wan kr/ n. from the verb "to wank", Brit. sl.; 1  one who wanks 2  a foolish and self-congratulatory individual, one not wholly attuned to reality  3  masturbator Sorry, I couldn’t resist — Timothy Gotsick

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<snip -Some of the subjects that people E-mail to me by request I might (and -have) use as a source in future training articles. I think it’s a great -way to get input from talented people I would have never met. -(Isn’t this the original purpose of Internet?) Actually, I believe the internet was originally a DoD (Dept. of Defense) project– your tax dollars hard at work…    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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-… and it made me look like a total wanker! Does anyone have the American Hertigage definition of this ?    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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<snip -Some of the subjects that people E-mail to me by request I might (and -have) use as a source in future training articles. I think it’s a great -way to get input from talented people I would have never met. -(Isn’t this the original purpose of Internet?) Actually, I believe the internet was originally a DoD (Dept. of Defense) project– your tax dollars hard at work…

Actually, actually, the ARPANET and later DARPANET were originally DoD funded. Nowadays, the Internet includes these two (or I guess only one now) nets as well as other private/ business nets and the all-important USENET (ie what you are reading). I don’t believe that the government supports much of the Internet anymore. Please correct me if I’m wrong. [Begin pseudo-old timer rant] For starters, THIS IS IN NO WAY A FLAME directed at anyone. That being said, I can say it’s really surprising how many people think that the Internet has sprang up in the last couple years. I has actually been around since the 1960’s in one form or another. [end rant] myke morgan

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  [..]   2.  Proofing.  I don’t know who does the proofing on the final mats for   Triathlete, but they need to look at their career decision carefully.   Issue after issue, captions on pictures are screwed-up/switched, pictures   are wrong etc…  It is very unprofessional.  Also, this whole debacle   with the TriFed membership card and Winnning Itnl where some people waited   months for their cards to arrive.  This also made the magazine look very   bad– even if it was not their fault.     3.  IQ.  In the advertisement section, Triathlete always says something   [..] I’m glad the proofing and I.Q. sections followed each other. Whenever I pick a mag up and find numerous errors in it, month after month, it makes me wonder whether the publishers:     *   Are that dimwitted, they don’t realise their errors,     *   Couldn’t care less about any errors, the mutts out will buy anything. It’s quite obvious that an auto spell checker is about as far as some go.  Pity that quiet and quite have different meanings, as do lose and loose (NETTERS TAKE NOTICE!!!!).  But what really gets me are the caption screw-ups. All these errors reinforce is: the publications are a load of rubbish, therefore stop buying it. — Paul Big Ears Menon Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology 124 La Trobe Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3001, Australia Ph: +61 3 660 3209/2348 Fx: +61 3 662 1617 ICBM: lat 37^ 50′ S long 145^ 0′ E WWW: http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/people/TSG/pnm.html

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Gotsick) writes:

re: wanker /wan kr/ n. from the verb "to wank", Brit. sl.; 1  one who wanks 2  a foolish and self-congratulatory individual, one not wholly attuned to reality  3  masturbator Well, I think all the Aussies, Kiwis and Brits know what I mean…. I’ll leave it at that!

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Oh go ahead and keep flaming each other :’)  But I’m glad you brought up the flame-wars in rec.sport.swimming.   Jeeze Louis!!!! Is that getting rediculous or WHAT?  Every day I log on to the net, find 15-30 new postings in r.s.t. and over 75 in r.s.s.  One morning it was over 100! And almost all of them flame! In rec.sport.swimming, you feel like you have to apologize or you’ll get flamed if you have a question that only relates to fun and fitness and not to drugs and the Chinese women.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip -Some of the subjects that people E-mail to me by request I might (and -have) use as a source in future training articles. I think it’s a great -way to get input from talented people I would have never met. -(Isn’t this the original purpose of Internet?) Actually, I believe the internet was originally a DoD (Dept. of Defense) project– your tax dollars hard at work… Actually, actually, the ARPANET and later DARPANET were originally DoD funded. Nowadays, the Internet includes these two (or I guess only one now) nets as well as other private/ business nets and the all-important USENET (ie what you are reading). I don’t believe that the government supports much of the Internet anymore. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

   Bet all those .edu accounts are paid for by someone. And perhaps some of the .org. And for sure the military has theirs too. Wonder who’s tax $$ are at work here?    I have one of those free accounts, but no pretty pictures. It’s sorta UNIX bases with some menus. Above my limited knowledge. – –Ann [Begin pseudo-old timer rant] For starters, THIS IS IN NO WAY A FLAME directed at anyone. That being said, I can say it’s really surprising how many people think that the Internet has sprang up in the last couple years. I has actually been around since the 1960’s in one form or another. [end rant] myke morgan

So Mike, is it you (I) ot the ‘Net that’s been around since the ’60’s.<G    And believe me, your tax dollars are still at work. Sleep well. –A

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  2.  Proofing.  I don’t know who does the proofing on the final mats for   Triathlete, but they need to look at their career decision carefully.   Issue after issue, captions on pictures are screwed-up/switched, pictures   are wrong etc…  It is very unprofessional.  Also, this whole debacle   with the TriFed membership card and Winnning Itnl where some people waited   months for their cards to arrive.  This also made the magazine look very   bad– even if it was not their fault.   I’m glad the proofing and I.Q. sections followed each other. Whenever I pick a mag up and find numerous errors in it, month after month, it makes me wonder whether the publishers:     *   Are that dimwitted, they don’t realise their errors,     *   Couldn’t care less about any errors, the mutts out will buy anything. It’s quite obvious that an auto spell checker is about as far as some go. Pity that quiet and quite have different meanings, as do lose and loose (NETTERS TAKE NOTICE!!!!).  But what really gets me are the caption screw-ups. All these errors reinforce is: the publications are a load of rubbish, therefore stop buying it. — Paul Big Ears Menon Dear Big Ears, I’ve always loved you Aussies — Such roundabout and subtle ways of getting to the point.  Please excuse the misspellings on the Net, let’s keep our eyes on the big picture mate. Now to the point… The  caption errors at Triathlete when I was on staff were very embarrassing. No excuses offered to all of you, only apologies.  The problem lies in its French-speaking European production and art department. The company is Belgian owned and it’s something that we’ve had to endure for years. The US edit department did not see and was not aware of those particular errors until the mag was on the stands. The captions were correct and the stories were solid when they left the States. In the US we do know the difference between Brad Kearns and Anne Curi, Mavic Zap and GripShift and a bench press and a sit-up. Yes we do, for sure. So, yes,  the blame falls within the company, so flame away, it’s fair. But this doesn’t at all reflect an "I-don’t-care" attitude by its editors to the readers or the sport. I know, I was the author of two or more of those miscaptioned and poorly laid out articles and it made me look like a total wanker! Jeffrey Justice

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Every since JJ brought up this thread, I’ve been doing a lot of comparison trying to come up with concrete examples (I knew I wasn’t satisfied, but wanted to more specific). 1. Race reports specifically IM-Germany.  The race reports in Triathlete are especially dry and uneventful.  The writers seem to forget that the majority of their audience doesn’t get a chance to race in the exotic locales of Europe, Carribean etc…  Also, they only describe the race which in many cases generates the excitement of a summer camp checkers tournament.  "Pigg’s off the front in the bike…"  Few paragraphs later, "Pigg’s still off the front…" and finally, "Pigg stayed off the front…"  Oh and don’t forget the "excuse me please" short epilogue blurb about the women’s race, "Paula had another great day…" What is the problem.  THE READER DOESN’T EXPERIENCE THE RACE.  This is what is great about the net.  Take for example Mark Jenkin’s IM-Germany race report.  It was great.  He described one of the best racing experiences that I’ve ever heard of.  The bike was like the TdF in that crowds were so dense only one or two cyclists could get through etc. People cheering, ethusiasm, enthusiasm, enthusiasm… Now read Triathletes version.  You get the same old dry coverage.  If I was writing for these mags, the first thing I would do is contact people on the net and see if I could interview them/borrow portions of their race report and collate as many comments as possible.  I would also get a copy of the race results and interview (race day or within a week by phone) not only the top finishers but middle-of-the-packers and back-of-the-packers. Now, the readers get to relive the race, not fall asleep from it. 2.  Proofing.  I don’t know who does the proofing on the final mats for Triathlete, but they need to look at their career decision carefully. Issue after issue, captions on pictures are screwed-up/switched, pictures are wrong etc…  It is very unprofessional.  Also, this whole debacle with the TriFed membership card and Winnning Itnl where some people waited months for their cards to arrive.  This also made the magazine look very bad– even if it was not their fault. 3.  IQ.  In the advertisement section, Triathlete always says something like "our average reader’s income is $7X,XXX…"  If triathletes are really making that much money, don’t you think they have some brains to go along with it.  One of the comments that came out of JJ’s survey is that Triathlete can be read too quickly– it’s not meaty enough.  IMHO, the only challenging articles focus mainly on nutrition.  For me (minority view), one of the reasons I like to exercise a lot is that I don’t have to focus on nutrition (really over-eating).  I would like to see some more technically brain-challenging articles.  The whole mag shouldn’t be that way, but maybe we could get ONE TECHNICAL ARTICLE on physiology, aerodynamics, bike mechanics, wind-tunnel calculations…  This would be easier to include that you think.  Triathlete needs to make a call for articles.  There are plenty of knowledgable athletes out their that would be willing to contribute (this is what programmer’s mags do) and would liven up the mag quite a bit.    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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