Question:

Yeah, I’d chime in that they’re pretty good machines — my roommate works with Tom and wound up buying one.  As Steve said, stiffer beam (whoops, ‘boom’ — copyright, don’t you know?) and all that.  The only word of caution I’d offer is that the chainstays on the 650 version are insanely short — i.e. if you go with STI it’s almost impossible to get decent front shifting.  Bar ends (i.e. friction shifting for the front) make everything fine.  The 700 has no such problems.  Tom’s a supercool guy who’s really committed to a good product and the sport.  (no affiliation other than the one mentioned above…..) Mike

Response:

I’ve been riding a Titanflex for the last three months.  Spent 4 years on a Softride Powerwing before that.  I’ve done 3 races on the Titanflex including a 5:40 bike split at IM Australia, which was an Ironman PR for me (not bad for a 61 year old).  The Titanflex is great.  It’s lighter and stiffer than the Softride and just a comfortable.  

Response:

I got my TitanFlex in February and did my second ride in the Mt. Taylor Quadrathlon.  Had an excellent race!  Since then, I’ve put over 3,000 miles on it and it is easily the best bike I’ve ever owned.  The ability to adjust it to suit any geometry is key, but what I like best is the way it climbs and descends.  At 17 pounds, it is light, but it is also very stiff.  I have dropped over a minute off one of my uphill time trial training courses (5K / 1,600 feet vertical), and it tracks very nicely on the steep windy descents.  It also gives a very forgiving ride without all of the bounce you get on a softride.  I would strongly recommend it. -Darrin

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Does anybody have any information about these bikes?  I see their ads in Triathlete every month but have never seen one at any races.  Does anyone have one that they could send me some info?  Does anyone have one for sale? Thanks, Marc

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Check out http://www.ttinet.com/tf/ .  I’ve had one for 2 years (the older model with tubing instead of the monoque frame). I switched to it after riding a steel bike for 7 yrs and a Softride for 3 yrs.  In a word it is great.  All the benefits of the Softride, but lighter.  Overall I canno t recommend a frame more higly if the primary purpose will be riding it in the aero positin. Bne Reuter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have any information about these bikes?  I see their ads in Triathlete every month but have never seen one at any races.  Does anyone have one that they could send me some info?  Does anyone have one for sale? Thanks, Marc

Response:

Although I don’t sell them, I"ve found their new design to be much better then the earlier attemps.  I’ve worked on a few at races and was able to test ride one at a race. Understand, I"m a big beam fan and am working on designing my Elite line around a beam for 2001. I like the ti beam, stiffer then the Softride and at 6′5" 220, it was nice. It really depends on what you want out of your bike. If you want ultralight, this isn’t it. It is light and can be built in around the 20lb mark which is completely acceptable.  Overall, I think it’s a great bike for the right riders. Steve’s Multisport – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have any information about these bikes?  I see their ads in Triathlete every month but have never seen one at any races.  Does anyone have one that they could send me some info?  Does anyone have one for sale? Thanks, Marc

Response:

While at Wildflower I spoke with Tom Piszkin (owner of Titanflex); a really great guy.  After giving me the story of Titanflex I received some information, you may want to call and ask for the same, or chat with Tom yourself.  Call 1.800.525.2527 ext. 382 or visit their web site at Let me know if you have any other questions. -giancarlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have any information about these bikes?  I see their ads in Triathlete every month but have never seen one at any races.  Does anyone have one that they could send me some info?  Does anyone have one for sale? Thanks, Marc

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Question:

I saw a reveiw in the December Triathlete mag on the QR PR-7…a 700c Tri-style bike for Clydesdale/taller triathletes. jjm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do you even consider getting 650c at your size? Well, I guess I didn’t realize there was a choice in the matter.  I’ve been looking at the QR Kilo which comes in a 59cm (largest) with 650C wheels.  The pricier models come in 61cm, but they don’t say if this one size comes with 700C, they just say the model comes with 650C.  So now I presume that I shouldn’t (based on my needs/wants and the advice of this NG) go with a QR, but rather, with some other manufacturer.  Are there any decent makes that come in big sizes (63cm+) with 700C wheels – specifically tri-bikes?  It seems that a lot are 650C front and rear…. Now I’m new to this, so obviously I haven’t seen everything.  I guess I was just thinking about trying to make my old road bike a little ‘more tri’…. Thanks, -MarkZ

Response:

NO, you can’t just change a fork. Don’t think of doing this as the bike design is not set for this. I am also 6′5". You need to ride a 700c bike with a properly fit frame. If you need help in picking a tri bike in 700c, just give me a call. Steve Steve’s Multisport  1.610.275.4010 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use bikes anymore with two differet sized wheels? ie. 700C in the rear and say 650C on the front.  I was thinking about converting an old road bike, with a 650C fork/wheel and a different stem.  Is this a bad idea?  Would the head tube angle be affected too much? I’m afraid to get a bike with two 650C wheels because they seem too small.  I always have to buy the biggest frame available, and with 700C wheels the bikes (61-63cm) look like they have 650C ones.  A huge frame with even smaller wheels just doesn’t look/seem right.  Most frames are designed for the 55-58cm sizes, when you go to the extremes, there has to be some negative effect because of the geometry.  Small bikes are all wheels, and big ones are all frame.  Should I just stick with 700C wheel’d bikes?  Sometimes it sucks being 6′5"…. Thanks, -MarkZ

  steves.vcf

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use bikes anymore with two differet sized wheels? ie. 700C in the rear and say 650C on the front. At that height, odds are that you can get low enough on a dual 700C bike. But, should you decide to try to make yours a "low pro" (as the English time trialists call such bikes), here are the major issues to consider: 1) Effect on head (and seat) tube angle and thus trail 2) while you can deal with the trail/steering issue by picking the right fork

How ’bout that?  Mark beat me two it.  I was going to ask this exact question (I’m a mere 6′4").  I know my best bet would be a dual 700c tri bike (QR PR7, Cervelo P2K and P3, Litespeed, Habanero to name a few). I’m going to buy a new bike (I currently have a 63cm 650c Cannondale R700) mostly to train with roadies and perhaps do some road races, but I’d like to use my new investment for my primary purpose — triathlons. I just want to avoid buying two new bikes. I’ve considered buying two frames and swapping components between the bikes (way too much overhead), just using the new road bike (as yet undecided) with a forward seatpost and a longer stem if necessary, or trying the fancy 650c front (which would also be a chore to swap back and forth).  I just hate to buy two bikes… I’m also wondering about crank length.  It seems odd that a crank length range of 5mm — less than a quarter of an inch, unless you go to Dura Ace or something special — can fit an inseam range of 8 or 9 inches (22cm).  I read this article http://www.nettally.com/palmk/crankset.html that proposes using a formula (inseam in inches * 5.48) to determine crank length.  This put me at about 200mm.  Being that I love things that are contrary to popular belief, although I’d never do something solely for that purpose, it seems reasonable that a formula such as this is appropriate in selecting crank length.  (This sort of ties into this discussion since putting a 650c wheel/fork on a 700c bike would lower the BB too much to use a crank like this.)  Any thoughts? One road bike I’m considering is the Giant TCR1.  I think that’s what LVL used in Hawaii, I don’t know if it was 700c/700c or 700c/650c.  It seems like a good amount of bike for not a whole lot of money (1 kg/2.2 lb frame, Ultegra group but they have that odd fitting system, retails for US$1600).  I believe the large size fits what would typically be 58-64cm.  Any thoughts on this bike? — Cheers, Doug Fuller IMLP-99 Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks for the advice.  I’ve learned a lot just reading that 650 vs. 700 revisted thread.  If I do this, it will be more just to see if I can do it than anything else.  It was my first road bike that is now a fixed gear.  I think the biggest problem with this bike is that the top tube is too short (57cm). It’s got a 72.5deg head tube angle, and according to my back-of-the- envelope calculations, the most it would increase is about 2.84deg.  This is assuming the fork geometry isn’t drastically changed (super flat crown).  This would bring the head/seat tube angles up to ~75/76 respectively, which I don’t think are really all that bad.  I don’t think I’d need a custom fork except for the fact that the steerer tube needs to be so long – the head tube is 16cm c-c.  I haven’t considered offset and trail yet. I don’t think the BB height would be too much of a problem since it’s already pretty high, and the cranks are 175.  This bike was such a screwed up machine – I can’t believe I bought it….. I think the biggest thing holding me back now is the top tube length.   I’ve got a 15 or a 16 stem on there now, and it’s still pretty cramped.   I’ll have to put on some aerobars and see if I can even get into a reasonable aero position before I go any further with this. -MarkZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1) Effect on head (and seat) tube angle and thus trail – as you recognized, going to a smaller front wheel will steepen the head tube angle by 2-3 degrees, depending on the wheelbase, fork blade length/crown height (they do differ), and actual tires sizes. Whether this reduces the trail to the point that the bike become unstable will depend on the offset or rake of the forks in question, as well as the initial head tube angle/trail. Others on this thread have claimed that it makes a bike dangerously unstable, but I think it is obvious that they haven’t done such a conversion (which I and hundreds of other people have – see comment about "low pros" above), nor have they apparently ridden bikes with widely varying amounts of trail (e.g, track bikes, tandems). It is true that you’d probably not want to put a 650C fork and front wheel on a criterium bike that had a 75 degree head tube angle,. OTOH, if your bike has a 73 (or better, 72) degree head tube angle and you put a 650C fork on it w/ only 3-3.5 cm of offset, you’ll end up with a trail that’s still somewhat on the long side (i.e., slow handling), at least as racing bikes go. 2) while you can deal with the trail/steering issue by picking the right fork (or having one made – a custom steel fork wouldn’t cost you any more than what most aftermarket carbon forks sell for), you won’t be able to do much about the 1/2-3/4 inch drop in bottom bracket height. Still, this is unlikely to be a major problem unless you run very long cranks (which, at 6′5", you might), and/or like to pedal through sharp turns (more common in criteriums than in TTs/tris). If you do decide to pursue this idea, I suggest making a scale drawing of your current bike with the 700C front wheel, and the calculating

Response:

Excellent reply Andy… couldn’t have said it better myself and probably would’ve said it only have as good. I have friends from Ottawa (whom you probably know) who have done this sort of thing. As you said you have to look at the geometry of the outcome of the changes to really consider how the bike will handle. I get great please out of reading intelligent articles on the newsgroup, but it still amazes how people still believe the simple half-truths about cycling.. such the blanket statements that oversize- alu. is always an ‘uncomfortable ride which I know Rick must loath, or in this particular thread, the comment indicating such a change would result in a dangerous handling bike (just paraphrasing there). That said, I wouldn’t recommend people doing such a change to their bikes unless they know what they are up to. Thankfully r.s.t can help, this time Andy beat me to it. At 6′2" I’ve played with dual 700c and 26"/700c setups for aerodynamics. I’ve had best luck with the dual 700c setup with a small headtube (all while keeping it UCI legal too!). I see no need for someone of that height to try dual wheel combinations. Cheers, Jason

Response:

Does anyone use bikes anymore with two differet sized wheels? ie. 700C in the rear and say 650C on the front.  I was thinking about converting an old road bike, with a 650C fork/wheel and a different stem.  Is this a bad idea?  Would the head tube angle be affected too much? I’m afraid to get a bike with two 650C wheels because they seem too small.  I always have to buy the biggest frame available, and with 700C wheels the bikes (61-63cm) look like they have 650C ones.  A huge frame with even smaller wheels just doesn’t look/seem right.  Most frames are designed for the 55-58cm sizes, when you go to the extremes, there has to be some negative effect because of the geometry.  Small bikes are all wheels, and big ones are all frame.  Should I just stick with 700C wheel’d bikes?  Sometimes it sucks being 6′5"….

This can be done to make your bike a bit more aggressive. The handling may be a little wierd, but it will work. Make sure you replace both the fork and the wheel. Rick "Andy Coggan, where are you?" Denney

Response:

Does anyone use bikes anymore with two differet sized wheels? ie. 700C in the rear and say 650C on the front.  I was thinking about converting an old road bike, with a 650C fork/wheel and a different stem.  Is this a bad idea?  Would the head tube angle be affected too much? I’m afraid to get a bike with two 650C wheels because they seem too small.  I always have to buy the biggest frame available, and with 700C wheels the bikes (61-63cm) look like they have 650C ones.  A huge frame with even smaller wheels just doesn’t look/seem right.  Most frames are designed for the 55-58cm sizes, when you go to the extremes, there has to be some negative effect because of the geometry.  Small bikes are all wheels, and big ones are all frame.  Should I just stick with 700C wheel’d bikes?  Sometimes it sucks being 6′5"….

At that height, odds are that you can get low enough on a dual 700C bike, which would be slightly more aerodynamic and would give you more options in terms of tires for training, being able to swap wheels between bikes, etc. But, should you decide to try to make your a "low pro" (as the English time trialists call such bikes), here are the major issues to consider: 1) Effect on head (and seat) tube angle and thus trail – as you recognized, going to a smaller front wheel will steepen the head tube angle by 2-3 degrees, depending on the wheelbase, fork blade length/crown height (they do differ), and actual tires sizes. Whether this reduces the trail to the point that the bike become unstable will depend on the offset or rake of the forks in question, as well as the initial head tube angle/trail. Others on this thread have claimed that it makes a bike dangerously unstable, but I think it is obvious that they haven’t done such a conversion (which I and hundreds of other people have – see comment about "low pros" above), nor have they apparently ridden bikes with widely varying amounts of trail (e.g, track bikes, tandems). It is true that you’d probably not want to put a 650C fork and front wheel on a criterium bike that had a 75 degree head tube angle,. OTOH, if your bike has a 73 (or better, 72) degree head tube angle and you put a 650C fork on it w/ only 3-3.5 cm of offset, you’ll end up with a trail that’s still somewhat on the long side (i.e., slow handling), at least as racing bikes go. 2) while you can deal with the trail/steering issue by picking the right fork (or having one made – a custom steel fork wouldn’t cost you any more than what most aftermarket carbon forks sell for), you won’t be able to do much about the 1/2-3/4 inch drop in bottom bracket height. Still, this is unlikely to be a major problem unless you run very long cranks (which, at 6′5", you might), and/or like to pedal through sharp turns (more common in criteriums than in TTs/tris). If you do decide to pursue this idea, I suggest making a scale drawing of your current bike with the 700C front wheel, and the calculating exactly what would happen to angles, trail, and bottom bracket height if you fitted a 650C front end. This paper exercise may save you some time, energy, and $$ in the long run. Andrew Coggan

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MarkZ, Look’s like some identity crisis to me….. Why do you even consider getting 650c at your size? Coolness factor ? Come on, you mentioned that 650c wheels look ridiculous on a 63 cm frame ! Aerodynamics?  Summarized: There is no significant difference, if you are set up properly and do not care about 3 sec. in a 1h time trial (see the extensive discussion on this N.G.) I would not recommend to convert a 700c frame to a 650c front. Dangerously unstable ! trInIc (I wish I had your long legs !)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone use bikes anymore with two differet sized wheels? ie. 700C in the rear and say 650C on the front.  I was thinking about converting an old road bike, with a 650C fork/wheel and a different stem.  Is this a bad idea?  Would the head tube angle be affected too much? I’m afraid to get a bike with two 650C wheels because they seem too small.  I always have to buy the biggest frame available, and with 700C wheels the bikes (61-63cm) look like they have 650C ones.  A huge frame with even smaller wheels just doesn’t look/seem right.  Most frames are designed for the 55-58cm sizes, when you go to the extremes, there has to be some negative effect because of the geometry.  Small bikes are all wheels, and big ones are all frame.  Should I just stick with 700C wheel’d bikes?  Sometimes it sucks being 6′5"…. Thanks, -MarkZ

Response:

Why do you even consider getting 650c at your size?

Well, I guess I didn’t realize there was a choice in the matter.  I’ve been looking at the QR Kilo which comes in a 59cm (largest) with 650C wheels.  The pricier models come in 61cm, but they don’t say if this one size comes with 700C, they just say the model comes with 650C.  So now I presume that I shouldn’t (based on my needs/wants and the advice of this NG) go with a QR, but rather, with some other manufacturer.  Are there any decent makes that come in big sizes (63cm+) with 700C wheels – specifically tri-bikes?  It seems that a lot are 650C front and rear…. Now I’m new to this, so obviously I haven’t seen everything.  I guess I was just thinking about trying to make my old road bike a little ‘more tri’…. Thanks, -MarkZ

Response:

Does anyone use bikes anymore with two differet sized wheels? ie. 700C in the rear and say 650C on the front.  I was thinking about converting an old road bike, with a 650C fork/wheel and a different stem.  Is this a bad idea?  Would the head tube angle be affected too much? I’m afraid to get a bike with two 650C wheels because they seem too small.  I always have to buy the biggest frame available, and with 700C wheels the bikes (61-63cm) look like they have 650C ones.  A huge frame with even smaller wheels just doesn’t look/seem right.  Most frames are designed for the 55-58cm sizes, when you go to the extremes, there has to be some negative effect because of the geometry.  Small bikes are all wheels, and big ones are all frame.  Should I just stick with 700C wheel’d bikes?  Sometimes it sucks being 6′5"…. Thanks, -MarkZ

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Question:

  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group? Who is sexier, tribaby or me.  Females versus males, of course, my vote goes to tricia. Who has the best sex in r.s.t.

Funny, when the normal bounds of conversational etiquette are challenged, the tenor of the conversation goes right into the toilet. Woo hoo, ain’t I Mr. Moral. Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

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How about the strategy of doing a "number 2" on the bike? That’ll keep those drafters away? —                                               |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37                              |   Fe   | IMC’97: 10:42:53                              |        |                                      "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING" ‘98 Schedule – GCT, Eagleman, BSLT, IMC

How many of us have gotten very close to doing "Number 2" on the bike? About two years ago, I almost had a very embarassing accident.  I did learn what not to eat before going on a ride!!

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That’s absolutely disgusting, and beneath contempt. If I wasn’t laughing so hard, I’d flame you good. I was in Pennsylvania recently, and went for a run with a buddy. We were in the last mile of a six-mile run when suddenly my digestive system turned on me. That was a quick last mile, and it still came to the balance of a hair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about the strategy of doing a "number 2" on the bike? That’ll keep those drafters away? —                                               |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37                              |   Fe   | IMC’97: 10:42:53                              |        |                                      "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING" ‘98 Schedule – GCT, Eagleman, BSLT, IMC How many of us have gotten very close to doing "Number 2" on the bike? About two years ago, I almost had a very embarassing accident.  I did learn what not to eat before going on a ride!!

Rick Denney Take what you want and leave the rest.

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Has "Why" been done? — Phil Squire Going for it in Roth 98

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Rich Davis  says…  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?    Just curious. Considering that we’ve just had Christmas/New Year – Eating Habits.   Obviously as health conscious individuals we watch what we eat. So what does everybody consume in order to keep those long training sessions going.

Wrong!  This has indeed been discussed in the past! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft." *** Ironman Canada 1997 – 13:04:09 *** http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?

Who is sexier, tribaby or me.  Females versus males, of course, my vote goes to tricia. Who has the best sex in r.s.t.

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What do you think about during those long training sessions?? — MB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  Just curious.

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 In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  

Here’s a couple of potential topics/questions: 1. Spiritual experiences during training & racing (actually, this has probably been touched on in a few race reports) 2. Political leanings of most triathletes (i.e., conservative, liberal, etc.) 3. Has anyone ever worn their heart rate monitor during sex? 4. Types of caps/hats preferred during training and racing 5. Best/worst dream about triathlons Just a little fuel for the fire. Greg Pressler

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Snip, snip Here’s a couple of potential topics/questions: 1. Spiritual experiences during training & racing

Yes, definitely, last summer at the National Sprint Champs, here in Sweden. Out on the bike, had an "magic moment", a rain squall, backed by a ragged sky, everything was perfect, just for a few fleeting moments…… 2. Political leanings of most triathletes (i.e., conservative, liberal, etc.)

Liberal "new socialist" See Tony Blair. 3. Has anyone ever worn their heart rate monitor during sex?

Yup 4. Types of caps/hats preferred during training and racing

An old lime green Oalley cap I bought in Nice in 92. The year I got the Tri bug. 5. Best/worst dream about triathlons

I’m doing my first Ironman and I’ve forgotten all my kit, I have no food and only one water bottle, oh and my bike has steel handlebars with no rubber on the brake levers Phil Squire

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I have not seen any discussions on fun things to do with a heart rate monitor when not being used for training. "Drafting is not a four-letter word" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  Just curious.

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5. Best/worst dream about triathlons Greg Pressler

For some reason I don’t dream about triathlons. This is a close as I can get Best Moment: Canberra Sri Chinmoy Sprint Tri Last year. Getting back to the transition area after the bike leg and being the first bike back on the rack.   Checked the watch and worked out that I was well inside my PB time. For this MOP it felt real good. Worst Moment: Same race about 2km later when I realised that the damp soggy feeling down the back of my right runner wasn’t sweat but the oozing of blood from two massive blisters(one each side of my heal).  Struggled through the pain for the last 3km and missed the PB by 1 minute. I’m going back.  Its my last year in this age group and I want to go out with a PB AJ — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club http://www.moreton.qld.edu.au/itc/index.htm      

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5. Best/worst dream about triathlons

I have dreamed about transitions – I seem to always leave something in my car, and have to go get it.  Twice, I’ve ended up in a restaurant between the swim and the bike to have something to eat. Alison Keple Mill Bay, BC

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Hmmmm… we’ve discussed clothing, eating, drinking, partying, TV, shaving, toys (equipment),

I’m glad you clarified that because, as a male, and a Howard Stern fan, I assumed that by putting toys after shaving you meant something else entirely. <g

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5. Best/worst dream about triathlons I have dreamed about transitions – I seem to always leave something in my car, and have to go get it.  Twice, I’ve ended up in a restaurant between the swim and the bike to have something to eat. Alison Keple Mill Bay, BC

I keep having this re-occuring dream that I show up to Forster Ironman just as everyone is getting out of the water and that I have to make the time and then climb this really big hill just after the swim (but there isnt a really large hill on the course). I guess a lot of us triathletes get pre-race anxiety. -Glenn

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How about the strategy of doing a "number 2" on the bike? That’ll keep those drafters away? —                                               |26      | IMC’96: 10:36:37                              |   Fe   | IMC’97: 10:42:53                              |        |                                      "THE BEST ELEMENT OF RACING" ‘98 Schedule – GCT, Eagleman, BSLT, IMC

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How about the nutritional benefit of eating cookies and drinking beer (ahem, I mean carbo loading) all winter long.  And then trying to do an IM after a mere 2 months of training. I think I have a plan for IMC! — Eric  Weiss GFT 97 – Completed IMC 98 – Hmmmmm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?   Just curious.

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?

I would like to ask if you have ever discussed with a really old man, who has never attempted nor intends to try to find the pleasure involved with the completion of a triathlon, his feelings toward triathletes? If you could find such an individual, who might just have a son involved in this crazy sport, he might just tell you that a finer group of people cannot be found in any activity. Friendly, helpful, always there with an encouraging word, this father might like to thank a lot of people for the patience and leadership that has been instilled in his son. Raising children in todays society is a frightening job. I’m sure that dad would say it scares the hell out of him every time his kid goes out to hammer a 25 mile training ride, knowing the crazy drivers are out there. I’m sure that a calm would exist when pop remembers the quality of individuals his son is with. I believe it would be similar to letting a kid loose on the internet. I would bet the old man would feel comfortable allowing that same youth to lurk and correspond with a certain group of individuals with only minimum supervision.(well as far as the kid knows– minimum supervision) If you ever decide on the above mentioned topic–Give me a shout. I might be able to find someone matching that discription. In the meantime, if you happen upon youthful triathletes in training or in competition, continue to give them a smile and a kind word. I doubt if he or she will look at you as a roll model, instead you will have to accept the simple emotions of friendship and respect. THANKS, DOUG                 (D.J. if you see this MOM made me say it);)

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employer support of our hobby…did I miss something?

        Yes you missed something… the day I decided to make a point of reading RST daily… the day I knew there were humans, not just tri-geeks here… yes, the day we discussed whether or not sex the night before a race was good or bad. A topic worthy of my young university mind. David Barclay IMC 1997: 11:55:59 Triathlon: "Swim, Bike, Crawl"

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?     Just curious.

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 In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?    Just curious.

I’m fairly certain the role of diarreah in early Roman chariot races and their eventual evolution to the sport we know today as "triathlon" hasn’t been discussed.  And I’m not certain I’d care to know, for that matter Chaz

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Rich Davis  says…  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?    Just curious.

Considering that we’ve just had Christmas/New Year – Eating Habits.   Obviously as health conscious individuals we watch what we eat. So what does everybody consume in order to keep those long training sessions going. I tend to be a see-food junkie (see food and eat it)  Although I’m trying to cut down on all those fatty foods that I enjoy so much (Pizza, donuts in particular).  Breakfast is usually cereal, lunch is an apple sandwich or left overs from the night before (always leftover spagetti) and dinner is whatever I’m organised enough to cook. Anybody else — Simon Haigh Illawarra Triathlon Club http://www.moreton.qld.edu.au/itc/index.htm – watch this space

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 In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about  triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?  Just curious. I’m fairly certain the role of diarreah in early Roman chariot races and their eventual evolution to the sport we know today as "triathlon" hasn’t been discussed.  And I’m not certain I’d care to know, for that matter

Well… there was some discussion about the tendency for athletes to get the runs just before a race.  But that’s getting very personal David reply to: wuth – family – atlanta (remove the spaces) at att dot net

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  In the 5 or so years RST has been around, is there anything about   triathlon that hasn’t been discussed in this group?

Hmmmm… we’ve discussed clothing, eating, drinking, partying, TV, shaving, toys (equipment), distances, politics, drafting, sunscreen, netiquette, the Olympics, humor, race reports, USAT, ITU, traveling with a bike, why or not to do a tri, family involvement, tragic loss of friends (pets and human), the judicial system, entry fees, rules, favorite races, variations in triathlon, how to encourage others to join our sport, health, comparing RST to other newsgroups <deep breath, employer support of our hobby…did I miss something? Have we discussed the best place to live in relation to proximity to races?  How about non-tri hobbies?  I have a huge Garfield collection, about 16 years worth of a very non-tri cat David

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Question:

please help, I need the top ten finishers for the im1981. (especially number 9) thanks Rob

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please help, I need the top ten finishers for the im1981. (especially number 9) thanks Rob

Men John Howard 9.38 Tom Warren 10.04 Scott Tinley 10.12 Thomas Boughey 10.23 Dennis Hansen 10.26 Dante Dettamanti 10.29 James Butterfield 10.31 Jonathon Durst 10.34 Conrad Kress 10.38 Ronal Krueper 10.39 Women Linda Sweeney 12.00 Sally Edwards 12.37 Carolyn Brooks 12.42 Cynthia Marks 13.00 Kika Walker 13.33 Nancy Kummen 13.34 Georgia Gatch 14.21 Carol Le Plant 14.24 Christa Obara 14.44 Patricia Specht 14.50 Dont you wish you were racing in 1981 ??? Ross

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – please help, I need the top ten finishers for the im1981. (especially number 9) thanks Rob I seem to remember that Triathlon Mag did a full history of the IMH including the top finishers for each year (although I don’t know how far down the list they wert).  Can’t remember exactly which issue, but it was probably around September or October of 1997. John Hall

The historical results can be found at the site: http://home1.gte.net/aesoft/results/ironman/history.html which I found on the JTL timing systems webpage: http://home1.gte.net/aesoft/results/ironman/ironman.html Also of possible interest, one can find a history at: http://www.sportsline.com/u/ironman/history/ Signed,         TriWebJunky — Mark E. Johnson, IMC97 Inst. for Math. and its Applications U. of Minnesota, Minneapolis http://www.ima.umn.edu/~mjohnson

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Question:

**Contestants must finish within 27 hours and make cutoff times for each segment of the race to become official finishers.** Aloha,         After working for Ironman for the past 7 years I’ve finally made "A" mistake. ha, ha  Contestants must finish within 17 hours not 27.         Thank you Carlos.

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MEDIA ALERT For Immediate Release:  June 23, 1997 1997 Ironman Age Group Winners To Automatically Qualify for         20 Anniversary Race in 1998         Tarpon Springs, Fla. – Triathletes who win their age-group division at the 1997 Ironman Triathlon World Championship will get an additional prize – an exemption from qualifying for the 20th Anniversary race in 1998.  Automatic entry for the best of Ironman’s amateur triathletes is the first of a number of special activities that will be announced to celebrate Ironman’s 20th Anniversary, according to David Yates, president of the World Triathlon Corporation (WTC), owner of the Ironman Triathlon trademark.         More than 20,000 athletes enter Ironman qualifying races each year in hopes of qualifying for the championship field of 1,500.  Currently, only the top 15 men’s and women’s overall finishers earn qualifying exemptions to the Kona, Hawaii-based race.         The 1997 Ironman Triathlon World Championship will take place October 18.  Considered among the premier tests of fitness, the Ironman Triathlon includes swimming 2.4 miles, biking 112 miles and running 26.2 miles.  Contestants must finish within 27 hours and make cutoff times for each segment of the race to become official finishers.         WTC has designated the enitre 1998 season to be a celebration of Ironman’s 20th Anniversary culminating with the Kona championship on October 3, 1998.         With offices in Kailua-Kona, Hawaii, and the Tampa Bay area of Florida, WTC produces the Ironman Triathlon World Championship and administers the Ironman qualifying system.  WTC’s marketing division, Ironman Properties, has developed the Ironman Triathlon trademark into an internationally known performance-sports brand name.  The name is licensed by companies such as Timex, Reebok, Huffy, PR Nutrition, Wigwam Mills and Sports Pharmaceuticals of America for a variet of Ironman products.         Media inquiries regarding the Ironman Triathlon should be directed to                                 #####

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yaaargh thank nice talk. Yaaargh not happy everyone call Yaaargh Yaargh. Yaargh not triathlete, Yaargh boulder potato. _Yaaargh_ triathlete. Okay. Y-a-a-a-rgh. Not Y-a-a-rgh. Me from Wisconsin. Me speak with Wisconsin accent. Me cheesehead. You Y-a-a-a-rgh. Yaaargh from cave. Me hope cave not too draft-y for Yaaargh. Teeheehee. Yaaargh get it? "Draft-y?" Yaaargh have humor? Yes, Yaaargh have humor.  Me have Green Bay Packers. Hurrrrummmphhh.

It’s going to be a loooooonnnggg winter  :-) Just George

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is priceless!  Thank you, Yaargh; Yaargh good! Yes, Yaargh good. Good brain. Good think. Good post. Maybe even better than Les McDonald’s brain. Better than Les’ posts? Don’t know. Les never posts. Just has spies. Les old-fashioned. Maybe Yaargh go talk to Les. Maybe Yaargh go tell Les about draft (Yaargh say draft is bad). Les thinks draft good. Maybe Les got hit on head by rock. Yes, Yaargh go talk to Les. Katherine Williams (short on original creativity at the moment — brain is overworked   and consumed by other project — but able to recognize someone else’s great idea when it appears on the screen. Katherine likes Yaargh, too.)

Yaaargh thank nice talk. Yaaargh not happy everyone call Yaaargh Yaargh. Yaargh not triathlete, Yaargh boulder potato. _Yaaargh_ triathlete. Yaaargh say tall not-Yaaargh run straight up. Yaaargh frown. Yaaargh say tall not-Yaaargh ride like Yaaargh. Yaaargh like aerobars. Think not-Yaaargh back sore. Yaaargh laugh. Yaaargh                 |  "Har norph ninge ninge harhar.                         |             – T. Yurnph http://www.dirt.cave.rok/~tyaaargh

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is priceless!  Thank you, Yaargh; Yaargh good! Yes, Yaargh good. Good brain. Good think. Good post. Maybe even better than Les McDonald’s brain. Better than Les’ posts? Don’t know. Les never posts. Just has spies. Les old-fashioned. Maybe Yaargh go talk to Les. Maybe Yaargh go tell Les about draft (Yaargh say draft is bad). Les thinks draft good. Maybe Les got hit on head by rock. Yes, Yaargh go talk to Les. Katherine Williams (short on original creativity at the moment — brain is overworked   and consumed by other project — but able to recognize someone else’s great idea when it appears on the screen. Katherine likes Yaargh, too.)

Yaaargh thank nice talk. Yaaargh not happy everyone call Yaaargh Yaargh. Yaargh not triathlete, Yaargh boulder potato. _Yaaargh_ triathlete. Yaaargh say tall not-Yaaargh run straight up. Yaaargh frown. Yaaargh say tall not-Yaaargh ride like Yaaargh. Yaaargh like aerobars. Think not-Yaaargh back sore. Yaaargh laugh. Yaaargh say sorry repost. Yaaargh first forget Reply-to field. Sometimes Yaaargh butthead. Yaaargh                 |  "Har norph ninge ninge harhar.                         |             – T. Yurnph http://www.dirt.cave.rok/~tyaaargh

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Yaaargh thank nice talk. Yaaargh not happy everyone call Yaaargh Yaargh. Yaargh not triathlete, Yaargh boulder potato. _Yaaargh_ triathlete.

Okay. Y-a-a-a-rgh. Not Y-a-a-rgh. Me from Wisconsin. Me speak with Wisconsin accent. Me cheesehead. You Y-a-a-a-rgh. Yaaargh from cave. Me hope cave not too draft-y for Yaaargh. Teeheehee. Yaaargh get it? "Draft-y?" Yaaargh have humor? Yes, Yaaargh have humor.  Me have Green Bay Packers. Hurrrrummmphhh.

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<snip very funny stuff ROFL!!! This is classic! Quite possibly the funniest thing I’ve read all year. More! More! More! Trib in Canberra, Australia — |               Stephen "Trib" Collins              | |Analyst/Programmer/Webmaster, Computer Law Services| |13 Curtin Place CURTIN ACT 2605 Australia (GMT +10)| |        +61 6 2826888  Fax:   +61 6 2828282        | |     TRIATHLON!    o  "The best view of one’s      | |            __o   <|  soul is from beyond the     | |          _ < _  _   edge, looking back."        | |   __^o_ (_)/ (_)  /                               |

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[Message forwarded from domain dirt.cave.rok] Yaaargh say drafting bad. No draft in race. No draft before race. No draft after race. Yaaargh no like drafting. Drafting bad. You like drafting, Yaaargh say you bad, Yaaargh not like you. Marshall say you draft, Yaaargh _know_ you draft. Drafting bad, Yaaargh no like you. Yaaargh say you stop small time in square thing, you rest, Yaaargh not rest. Yaaargh say bad. No care how long you draft, no care you not draft but block, no care you no think small time then draft. Drafting bad – you bad. Yaaargh want you stop. Yaaargh like better before when no drafting. Yaaargh say before no square thing, no rest, no marshall, no drafting. Before better, now bad.

[SNIP--other good stuff deleted] Quite so! Well said, my good fellow!  I’m amazed and delighted that a chap like you made the leap of intellect directly from the discovery of the wheel to the discovery that drafting is poison to the soul.  Other "more civilized" fellows seem to have quite missed that point entirely.  One hopes that when you make the discovery of "TV" and "money", that you don’t also fall from innocence. Yaaargh have more points …

Folsom points, no doubt. Yaaargh say swimming good. No like sticky black thing. Sticky black thing make more fast swim for not-Yaaargh. Sticky black thing bad. Yaaargh say running hard. Yaaargh run bent over like friend Trog. Yaaargh want stand up good. Yaargh not like tall not-Yaaargh go fast running. Yaaargh ask Bear to stop go fast not-Yaaargh. Bear stop or Bear not stop, Yaaargh keep try go fast. Wait for evolve.

Rubbish! You’re already "transitioning" quicker than most, since you have no need of sticky black skin, and never need to change into shoes.  Although it would be nice if you learned to use a handerkerchief, there’s a good chap. — Rick Teichler StorageTek Software Engineering (Louisville, Colorado) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Yaaargh                 |  "Har norph ninge ninge harhar.                        |             – T. Yurnph http://www.dirt.cave.rok/~tyaaargh

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[Message forwarded from domain dirt.cave.rok] Yaaargh say drafting bad. No draft in race. No draft before race. No draft after race. Yaaargh no like drafting. Drafting bad. You like drafting, Yaaargh say you bad, Yaaargh not like you. Marshall say you draft, Yaaargh _know_ you draft. Drafting bad, Yaaargh no like you. Yaaargh say you stop small time in square thing, you rest, Yaaargh not rest. Yaaargh say bad. No care how long you draft, no care you not draft but block, no care you no think small time then draft. Drafting bad – you bad. Yaaargh want you stop. Yaaargh like better before when no drafting. Yaaargh say before no square thing, no rest, no marshall, no drafting. Before better, now bad. Yaaargh have more points … Yaaargh say swimming good. No like sticky black thing. Sticky black thing make more fast swim for not-Yaaargh. Sticky black thing bad. Yaaargh say running hard. Yaaargh run bent over like friend Trog. Yaaargh want stand up good. Yaargh not like tall not-Yaaargh go fast running. Yaaargh ask Bear to stop go fast not-Yaaargh. Bear stop or Bear not stop, Yaaargh keep try go fast. Wait for evolve. — Yaaargh                 |  "Har norph ninge ninge harhar.                         |             – T. Yurnph http://www.dirt.cave.rok/~tyaaargh

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Message forwarded from domain dirt.cave.rok] Yaaargh say drafting bad. No draft in race. No draft before race. No draft after race. Yaaargh no like drafting. Drafting bad. You like drafting, Yaaargh say you bad, Yaaargh not like you. Marshall say you draft, Yaaargh _know_ you draft. Drafting bad, Yaaargh no like you. Yaaargh say you stop small time in square thing, you rest, Yaaargh not rest. Yaaargh say bad. No care how long you draft, no care you not draft but block, no care you no think small time then draft. Drafting bad – you bad. Yaaargh want you stop. Yaaargh like better before when no drafting. Yaaargh say before no square thing, no rest, no marshall, no drafting. Before better, now bad. Yaaargh have more points … Yaaargh say swimming good. No like sticky black thing. Sticky black thing make more fast swim for not-Yaaargh. Sticky black thing bad. Yaaargh say running hard. Yaaargh run bent over like friend Trog. Yaaargh want stand up good. Yaargh not like tall not-Yaaargh go fast running. Yaaargh ask Bear to stop go fast not-Yaaargh. Bear stop or Bear not stop, Yaaargh keep try go fast. Wait for evolve. — Yaaargh                 |  "Har norph ninge ninge harhar.                         |             – T. Yurnph http://www.dirt.cave.rok/~tyaaargh

I LOVE it!!!! This is priceless!  Thank you, Yaargh; Yaargh good! Tri-Baby                                      _                                   –    o      ’             –  __o       –    </_  `     ‘         –    <         – __/    /o_         – (()) (())        -  / "REAL Triathletes don’t draft!" http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~brooksie        

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Message forwarded from domain dirt.cave.rok] Yaaargh say drafting bad. No draft in race. No draft before race. No draft after race. Yaaargh no like drafting. Drafting bad. You like drafting, Yaaargh say you bad, Yaaargh not like you. Marshall say you draft, Yaaargh _know_ you draft. Drafting bad, Yaaargh no like you. Yaaargh say you stop small time in square thing, you rest, Yaaargh not rest. Yaaargh say bad. No care how long you draft, no care you not draft but block, no care you no think small time then draft. Drafting bad – you bad. Yaaargh want you stop. Yaaargh like better before when no drafting. Yaaargh say before no square thing, no rest, no marshall, no drafting. Before better, now bad. Yaaargh have more points … Yaaargh say swimming good. No like sticky black thing. Sticky black thing make more fast swim for not-Yaaargh. Sticky black thing bad. Yaaargh say running hard. Yaaargh run bent over like friend Trog. Yaaargh want stand up good. Yaargh not like tall not-Yaaargh go fast running. Yaaargh ask Bear to stop go fast not-Yaaargh. Bear stop or Bear not stop, Yaaargh keep try go fast. Wait for evolve. — Yaaargh                 |  "Har norph ninge ninge harhar.                        |             – T. Yurnph http://www.dirt.cave.rok/~tyaaargh

Yaaargh, You will be happy to know that triathlon is in itself an evolutionary step towards becoming a superior life form.  However, I must inform you that just as you have not evolved into the running-efficient bipedal, most of us "not-Yaaarghs" are more genetically distinct from our amphibious ancestors than you and rather enjoy the benefits of a wetsuit.  As for unleashing your pet carnivore on your fellow competitors, I’ll just have to remember what one hiker said to another- "I don’t have to outrun the bear.  I just have to outrun YOU!" Thanks for your creative prose. Cameron "more ‘country bumpkin’ than ‘modern man’" Martz

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This is priceless!  Thank you, Yaargh; Yaargh good!

Yes, Yaargh good. Good brain. Good think. Good post. Maybe even better than Les McDonald’s brain. Better than Les’ posts? Don’t know. Les never posts. Just has spies. Les old-fashioned. Maybe Yaargh go talk to Les. Maybe Yaargh go tell Les about draft (Yaargh say draft is bad). Les thinks draft good. Maybe Les got hit on head by rock. Yes, Yaargh go talk to Les. Katherine Williams (short on original creativity at the moment — brain is overworked   and consumed by other project — but able to recognize someone else’s great idea when it appears on the screen. Katherine likes Yaargh, too.)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -While out running on the trails behind my house this Sunday past, my mind was wandering, as it often does, lulled into an almost hypnotic state by the metronomic sound of the dirt crunching under my feet. Often times, this run is one of the few times I have for contemplation during the week, what with a new baby in the house, a ten year old daughter to whom I am a part time father, and a business which keeps me away from them and my wife far more than I would like. Given this, you might find it strange that the theme of my mental meanderings was this newsgroup. Over the course of the last year, rst has become something of a touchstone for me and triathlon. To me, rst has become sort of a "cyber newspaper" to which I turn every morning for news, opinions, results and general gossip. During the course of the past few months there has been a recurring theme that has come to bother me and I thought I would take a moment to share my concerns with you all. Let me preface this observation with the fact that it has been a year since I last competed and I miss almost every aspect of going racing badly. Which is just the way I was racing when I finally decided to hang it up for a time to devote my energy to business and family. This is exactly why this forum has become an integral part of my life. Some of the things I miss most, the camaraderie, the sharing amongst people who have faced similar challenges, setbacks, victories and embarrassments, I can find here every morning. rst doesn’t replace those early morning rides, or that great feeling after a hard track workout, or that super clean feeling you get after masters that seems to last all day, but it helps. My concern is that we are beginning to focus here more on the differences we have than the similarities. While a number of us are on opposite sides of some issues regarding the direction our sport will take, we may be losing sight of the fact that we, each of us, share a common bond in the challenge that we accepted when we first crawled from the ooze of everyday living, to become triathletes. I would venture to say that there is not one person on this group whose company I would not enjoy on my Sunday run or a long ride (should I ever take one again). Maybe we would argue about drafting or debate the various merits of one race over another but we would be "brothers (sisters) in arms" at the end. What I see happening, at least in some instances, is the discussion moving from healthy debate to bad feelings and bad wishes. Pardon me for sounding like the "voice of triathlon", that is not my intention, but this is not what we are about. Whatever challenges face us, we can overcome them and make our sport better. After all, isn’t that what triathlon is about? In the end, I think we can each contribute to this group in our own way and let the dynamic take us where it will and in the end remain friends. While the world around us is carving itself up into ever more insulated and self interested groups, we have a unique opportunity to take the opposite tack and provide an open forum for discussion and debate without naming an enemy. To paraphrase Pogo.."We have met the enemy, and he is us". The thing that made me continue on in triathlon for ten years was the more than anything the people and the friendships I have met and made. They are here and they are us. If you read this far, thanks for allowing me the space to express my opinion….again. ZAG

ZAG–I knew I’d find you online. I couldn’t agree with you more.  And that negative attitude should be fought or at least not encouraged.  And don’t forget that stuff is even worse between triathletes and bikies…especially on the lousy east coast.  Glad to hear about the new baby, got one in the oven ourselves.  Let’s talk soon.

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Great! Let’s face the challeges together in harmony and the spirit of cooperation and fun…..WITHOUT DRAFTING!!!!!! Cooter

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All of this talk about fairness and legitimacy regarding how you get to Kona is amusing.  Yes, the race is a business and some slots must be given away to sponsors.  Thats life in the real world.   The lottery keeps the dream alive for people who have lives that don’t allow them to be 100 percent dedicated to training and qualifying. Ultimately, if you qualify, or if you win the lottery, or if you get in because you own Timex, when you get to Kona they make you start on the same line as the rest of us.  They make you do the whole course.  You must finish in the 17 hour limit.  And if you do finish,  you’re an IRONMAN.   And nobody can take that away from you.  If anyone tries to belittle your achievement because you got in by lottery, screw him. What all this is saying is I think there are too many egos and too much insecurity involved.  This is all for fun.   |       Ray Plotecia            | |       Image Control           |

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Just as an elite or pro competitor will often DNF in the event of a flat or other mishap which costs enough time to preclude an acceptably high finish while an age group racer is far more likely to finish the race for it’s own reward, it is certainly understandable that those who train long and hard with little hope of placing in the top 3 (?) in their division would feel some frustration and resentment of those who get in not even by lottery, but by knowing someone who knows someone who….                                 Anyone who finishes an IM has earned my respect for their ability if not their ethics. kurian davis

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Applause for your comments!!! Great line of thinking. Check my profile and you might agree. Many positive gains no matter were you finish with the right attitude. To this day, a woman that I caught up to (we finished last together, and it was her first tri) in a triathlon called the Emerald water’s here in Syracuse, reminds me of this time and since  we have become good friends. I was in a band at the time, and didn’t get to bed till 3am. Race was at 7am. It was a small race (80) with mostly experienced race’rs. Something to be learned no matter the situation. I usually place in mid-pack or win my age group on a good day, and really don’t worry as long as I worked at it. Good luck, see at the races!!! Mike Joyner

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Since we are on the subject of companies getting slots to give away (like the reebok guy), I figured I’d give my quick 2 cents. This sport is always trying to find sponsors for races and such and the Ironman is no different. I feel that in exchange for the sponsorship and money that they fork over a few slots are not a big deal. What if we lost these sponsors to other sports? Then those slots would not have near the importance as they once had when the sponsors were secured. If you aren’t fast enough to qualify, and you never get picked for the lottery, then play their game. get in touch with the companies that sponsor the race and try and work a slot out of them. Ironman is a great race and I think it should always keep a lottery system for the "common folk", its just too bad that the course can’t hold 10,000 people. but that’s life, so if you want in bad enough, you might want to try the back door like so many others have. T.J. T.J. Fry                  : "It takes a big man to cry, but Clemson University        : that man".-DEEP THOUGHTS by Jack Handy Men’s varsity swimming    :

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I have read this thread with interest.  Back in 1990, after years of trying the lottery and a few qualifying attempts, I was about ready to give up on the idea of getting to Kona.  It was during this time (1990-91) that the race itself was in a bit of a struggle…Bud Light had dropped out as title sponsor, ABC had decided not to air the race any longer, Valerie Silk ( a TERRIFIC woman BTW) had sold the race and the new owners had not yet hit on the winning streak that was to come.  It was during this time that I wrote a letter to David Voth, who had an ownership interest at the time,  asking him to try and maintain the race’s preeminence, that triathlon needed a strong Ironman and that the race helped keep all those age-group dreamers in the sport. Voth responded with a lengthy personal letter telling me about the negotiations with Gatorade and NBC and ended with a hope for my luck with the lottery or a qualifier  in 1991.  I appreciated his response. I entered the lottery that winter, called Hawaii a few days after the selection and was told I didn’t make it.  I thought, OK try a qualifier or two and then move on.  A few days later I received in the mail an entry packet from Ironman saying I had made it into the race.  Excited but confused by this, I called Kona again and, after some checking, was told that I was entered into the race as a guest of David Voth.  I had been given an owners exemption (something which continues in various shapes and forms today) to do the race. Was my entry into the race legitimate? I loved the sport and had tried for years to get into the Ironman.  Could I have qualified that year? In all honesty, probably not.  I was a classic middle-of-the-pack age grouper. Since that time though, I have had good success in my age group, something that I attribute to the Ironman prep back in 1991 and in the confidence that doing the race gave me.  It showed me that there was potential that had been left unexplored, that possibilities existed that I didn’t realize I had.  That knowledge has informed my life and my teaching.  Sometimes a chance is all you need.  David Voth gave me one, and I’ve been grateful ever since. I know that this is a tough subject for many.  Just-missed qualifiers look at lottery winners and say that should be me…or ask why they should do all the training when all you have to do is know someone or write a letter to the right people.  I wish everyone who wanted to could do the race.  I hope everyone that wants to, gets to.  But please don’t look too harshly on those who get in and complete that course.  In many ways, if they finish it, they’ve earned it…just like those folks 16 or 17 years ago did, long before lotteries or IQ races.  What you take from that day, from that effort, is unique and valuable no matter how you get there.  Thanks for reading this lengthy post and I hope everyone continues to have a great season and,as ever, a chance at the Kona Coast.  Best.  SBRMJM       "Perspective is Everything"

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I was thinking about participating in a sprint distance triathlon this summer. However, I am not sure if I will be able to cover the 0.25 mile distance with a front crawl. Is it OK for me to use the backstroke to finish the swim? Would this be frowned upon? Are there any disadvantages (besides not being able to see where you are going)? Am I likely to bump into other swimmers? Any suggestions/recommendations/comments?

By all means do the backstroke.  There are no rules as to the stroke which you do.  It would only be frowned upon by snobby people that think everyone should be able to do the whole swim freestyle.  I wouldn’t worry about it.  The only disadvantage is that most people agree that freestyle is faster than backstroke.  I wouldn’t worry about bumping other swimmers since they bump me all of the time when they’re doing freestyle! Just do it. Sean

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I was thinking about participating in a sprint distance triathlon this summer. However, I am not sure if I will be able to cover the 0.25 mile distance with a front crawl. Is it OK for me to use the backstroke to finish the swim?

Yes. Would this be frowned upon?

No, as long as you didn’t accidently clobber someone. Are there any disadvantages (besides not being able to see where you are going)? Am I likely to bump into other swimmers? Although I can run/bike the required distance, I seem to be having a hard time learning to swim long distances… At this point, I can swim around 200 metres with the crawl but can swim a quarter of a mile with the backstroke.

When teaching (beginning) adult swim lessons, I always had them swim some crawl, float on their back if necessary, and swim some more in order to help build endurance.  If at race time, you still are uncertain of whether or not you can make the distance I would try the following…  Don’t swim crawl until exhaustion, but instead develop some sort of rhythm where you swim 20 strokes crawl and 5 strokes back.  You can obviously vary the ratio to suit your needs.  However, you won’t be able to get into the rhythm until the initial pack thins out.  I would also use this sort of rhythm in training in order to help build your endurance.  Make sure you can swim the race distance plus 100 yds (there are no walls to rest on in open water ). Hope this helps! Pat    W.Patrick Brug, Ph.D.  _-           -_    Los Alamos National Lab -__       __-                                       /    cis:      72410,3372        /  

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I already bought raffle tickets… I was wondering who finally made the team.  I attended the Guelph Sprint, but they never sent me the Olympic results  Could you pls. post the final team selection (and perhaps how they did in their respective races) Thanx, Sean.

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I already bought raffle tickets… I was wondering who finally made the team.  I attended the Guelph Sprint, but they never sent me the Olympic results  Could you pls. post the final team selection (and perhaps how they did in their respective races) Thanx, Sean.

No problem. I will post results from both qualifying races as soon as our committee meets this weekend in Peterborough to finalize the team roster. Look for the info sometime early next week. P.S.  As for Mr. Sullivan’s thrilling response to my first post: BITE ME!                                                              ^

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To all those out there on the ‘Net who may be interested: I am on the TriCan’s organizing committee for the 1994 National University Triathlon Team.  We have recently held our two qualifying events in eastern and western Canada and have selected a team to attend the World University Student Games in Nantes, France, pending athlete eligibility. We are currently pursuing a variety of fundraising ideas, including a raffle, t-shirt sales, tax deductable donations and corporate sponsorship, among others. At the moment our title sponsors include PowerBar, GlycoMax, and Rip ‘N Hammer. However, we are still short considerable funds.  If anyone out there is interested in supporting Canada’s National University triathletes by sponsoring our team, purchasing raffle tickets (3 for $5, with a chance to win a NordicTrack, Ironman 2001 wetsuit, Speedplay pedals and more), purchasing a limited edition t-shirt, or making a tax deductible donation could you please contact: Arran Timms                     phone/fax: (705) 876-6643 Peterborough, ON K9J 7B8 Canada We think our athletes can bring back a medal to Canada!  Help support a student co-ordinated effort and ensure that this twelve member student-athlete team has the opportunity to represent Canada on September 25 in France!                                                              ^                                                              ^

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